Study reveals substantial evidence of holographic universe

January 30, 2017
A sketch of the timeline of the holographic Universe. Time runs from left to right. The far left denotes the holographic phase and the image is blurry because space and time are not yet well defined. At the end of this phase (denoted by the black fluctuating ellipse) the Universe enters a geometric phase, which can now be described by Einstein's equations. The cosmic microwave background was emitted about 375,000 years later. Patterns imprinted in it carry information about the very early Universe and seed the development of structures of stars and galaxies in the late time Universe (far right). Credit: Paul McFadden

A UK, Canadian and Italian study has provided what researchers believe is the first observational evidence that our universe could be a vast and complex hologram.

Theoretical physicists and astrophysicists, investigating irregularities in the (the 'afterglow' of the Big Bang), have found there is substantial evidence supporting a holographic explanation of the —in fact, as much as there is for the traditional explanation of these irregularities using the theory of cosmic inflation.

The researchers, from the University of Southampton (UK), University of Waterloo (Canada), Perimeter Institute (Canada), INFN, Lecce (Italy) and the University of Salento (Italy), have published findings in the journal Physical Review Letters.

A , an idea first suggested in the 1990s, is one where all the information that makes up our 3-D 'reality' (plus time) is contained in a 2-D surface on its boundaries.

Professor Kostas Skenderis of Mathematical Sciences at the University of Southampton explains: "Imagine that everything you see, feel and hear in three dimensions (and your perception of time) in fact emanates from a flat two-dimensional field. The idea is similar to that of ordinary holograms where a three-dimensional image is encoded in a two-dimensional surface, such as in the hologram on a credit card. However, this time, the entire universe is encoded."

Although not an example with holographic properties, it could be thought of as rather like watching a 3-D film in a cinema. We see the pictures as having height, width and crucially, depth—when in fact it all originates from a flat 2-D screen. The difference, in our 3-D universe, is that we can touch objects and the 'projection' is 'real' from our perspective.

In recent decades, advances in telescopes and sensing equipment have allowed scientists to detect a vast amount of data hidden in the 'white noise' or microwaves (partly responsible for the random black and white dots you see on an un-tuned TV) left over from the moment the universe was created. Using this information, the team were able to make complex comparisons between networks of features in the data and . They found that some of the simplest quantum field theories could explain nearly all cosmological observations of the early universe.

Professor Skenderis comments: "Holography is a huge leap forward in the way we think about the structure and creation of the universe. Einstein's theory of general relativity explains almost everything large scale in the universe very well, but starts to unravel when examining its origins and mechanisms at quantum level. Scientists have been working for decades to combine Einstein's theory of gravity and quantum theory. Some believe the concept of a holographic universe has the potential to reconcile the two. I hope our research takes us another step towards this."

The scientists now hope their study will open the door to further our understanding of the and explain how space and time emerged.

Explore further: Cosmologists a step closer to understanding quantum gravity

More information: Niayesh Afshordi et al. From Planck Data to Planck Era: Observational Tests of Holographic Cosmology, Physical Review Letters (2017). DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevLett.118.041301

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RNP
5 / 5 (9) Jan 30, 2017
An open access copy of the paper can be found here: https://arxiv.org...78v2.pdf
sirdumpalot
1.6 / 5 (7) Jan 30, 2017
Everything is encoded onto the surface of a black hole, and its negative energy density is the universes' dark energy.
Eikka
1.8 / 5 (4) Jan 30, 2017
A hologram is a recording of a light field - i.e. the 2D recording of a 3D pattern of light propagating through space, which is able to transform a second lightfield into a facsimile of the first. The hologram itself doesn't look like anything, it transforms other light into the appearance of the original recorded light.

So, if the universe is a hologram, what is illuminating it and where does the light go to be observed? The hologram doesn't necessarily need to record the image of another object - it can have any arbitrary pattern, but the greater trouble is - If we are the hologram, then how can we see ourselves?

PowerMax
1 / 5 (2) Jan 30, 2017
A hologram is a recording of a light field - i.e. the 2D recording of a 3D pattern of light propagating through space, which is able to transform a second lightfield into a facsimile of the first. The hologram itself doesn't look like anything, it transforms other light into the appearance of the original recorded light.

So, if the universe is a hologram, what is illuminating it and where does the light go to be observed? The hologram doesn't necessarily need to record the image of another object - it can have any arbitrary pattern, but the greater trouble is - If we are the hologram, then how can we see ourselves?



Some Jayden Smith stuff right here!
antialias_physorg
4.8 / 5 (10) Jan 30, 2017
Everything is encoded onto the surface of a black hole, and its negative energy density is the universes' dark energy.

If read the image and the paper RNP linked correctly (though I have to admit I didn't get very much out of the equations) then we are currently no longer in a holographic phase. It seems that only the early universe is holographic. Where 'early' is a rather ambiguous term since spacetime seems to be not so easily defined then.

(and no: A black hole doesn't seem to be part of any of this)
Grallen
5 / 5 (1) Jan 30, 2017
EDIT: Revoking my explanation as it feels it could lead people to incorrect conclusions due to my incomplete knowedge
RNP
5 / 5 (7) Jan 30, 2017
@antialis_physorg
I think you will find that what the paper is saying is that the imprint of a holographic Universe
can only detect (at least so far) in observations of the early Universe, i.e. the predictions of the holographic model converge with those of LambdaCDM at latter times.
rogerdallas
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 30, 2017
Just as a kind of side note, remember that the putative 3d external world gets mapped onto a 2d structure-- the retina. Of course, there is a complex structure in 3 space, the brain, that recreates the apparent 3d external world. But, if we simply consider the mapping onto the retina, it seems that every salient 3 space relationship is someone contained in that mapping. If that were not the case, no amount of brain processing of the image would reconstruct 3-space relationships. Of course, it might be possible to produce a 3 space construct that would be faulty, in that information would be lost...
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (5) Jan 30, 2017
If its a hologram then is it writing us or are we writing it? No of course i dont understand it.
CCMcCombs
1 / 5 (2) Jan 30, 2017
Gosh darn it, this gives a fair amount of credence to the flat Earther's.
I still think our universe is the product of a 4-D star implosion though.
musixian518
3.7 / 5 (6) Jan 30, 2017
Very disappointing that the author mentions Einstein, but give no reference to the Holographic Theory creators, Gerard 't Hooft, Lárus Thorlacius and Leonard Susskind.
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (4) Jan 30, 2017
So, if the universe is a hologram, what is illuminating it and where does the light go to be observed? The hologram doesn't necessarily need to record the image of another object - it can have any arbitrary pattern, but the greater trouble is - If we are the hologram, then how can we see ourselves?

So, instead of light waves think energy waves and instead of a static hologram, imagine an underlying structure of the universe which, like a hologram, enables interference of these energy waves, which manifests as the universe we experience.
Pooua
5 / 5 (7) Jan 30, 2017
@Eikka According to "What It Means to Live in a Holographic Universe" by Brian Koberlein, the holographic universe idea often is misrpresented. It actually means that all the information contained in the 3D universe can be found on the cosmological horizon, and gravity is an emergent property of the information on the horizon. I think that's what he is saying.

http://nautil.us/...universe

@sirdumpalot That's how the holographic universe idea originated.

https://en.wikipe...rinciple
Eikka
3 / 5 (3) Jan 30, 2017
So, instead of light waves think energy waves


Same difference.

and instead of a static hologram


Doesn't need to be static. The point of a hologram is simply that its pattern interferes with incoming light so the reflected light replicates the lightfield of some object. The lightfield is the 3D pattern of waves given off by an object, rather than a 2D projection of just the direct rays from the object.

imagine an underlying structure of the universe which, like a hologram, enables interference of these energy waves, which manifests as the universe we experience.


Yes, but how? If we exist as the 2D surface, if that's "universe", then how are we experiencing the 3D lightfield that is given off by the hologram? How can the hologram "see" itself?

Suppose your retina was a hologram - shining a laser light onto it projects a 3D lightfield in space outwards from your eye for others to see. You yourself wouldn't see the picture.
Eikka
2.3 / 5 (3) Jan 30, 2017
It actually means that all the information contained in the 3D universe can be found on the cosmological horizon, and gravity is an emergent property of the information on the horizon. I think that's what he is saying.


If I understood the explaination correctly, it's simply saying that all information about the insides of a volume must pass through the surface of said volume, but that isn't the same thing as saying all the information is already on the surface, and only there.

TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (8) Jan 30, 2017
So, instead of light waves think energy waves


Same difference.
What, so gravity and dark energy and higgs fields and whatever else there may be, dont count?
AmritSorli
1.4 / 5 (10) Jan 30, 2017
This is the most childish idea I ever read on physics. org
AmritSorli
2 / 5 (4) Jan 30, 2017
CMBR cannot come from some remote physical past which is NONEXISTENT.
CMBR has origin in quantum vacuum where is always NOW:
http://article.sc....11.html
big_hairy_jimbo
4.4 / 5 (7) Jan 30, 2017
Well, we suspect the universe started as a singularity, we also know it has a cosmic horizon. Sounds black hole-ish. We also suspect black holes contain information of any object that falls into it, is encoded in quantum fluctuations on the event horizon (is that even a physical thing??) So adding Holographic theory would suggest that our universe is an event horizon. But as others have wondered, WHAT is doing the projecting. Stealing from String Theory, we know gravity is always the odd one out when it comes to forces. String Theory suggests Gravity is so weak, because it leaks across multiple universes. So could gravity be the thing that does the "projection" of the quantum field on the event horizon? Perhaps dark matter is then projections of other universes (parallel) onto ours, but not on our event horizon.
All speculative. Thinking out of the box.
big_hairy_jimbo
5 / 5 (3) Jan 30, 2017
Further, to my last post, I always keep thinking of the snake eating it's own tail. What if universes are just black holes nested within each other. Hey, I'll take the one star votes. :-)
Mimath224
4 / 5 (1) Jan 30, 2017
Oh, I think I'm gonna need help on this one so would appreciate some comments. I seem to be unable to separate what the article is about and that of the Holographic Principle as proposed by String Theory (t'Hooft, Susskind). The paper as given by RNP is not 'layman friendly' (isn't meant to be, I know) and therefore I need time to consult my reference books but it does seem to have a field(QFT)/string field 'feel'. Also, that the t'Hooft coupling along with Loop theories suggests to me, a layman, other than the standard model.
I would appreciate correction to my thoughts so hat I can better understand this present article. Thanks in advance
Sonhouse
5 / 5 (1) Jan 31, 2017
The article mentions the theory only works if it is less than 10 degrees wide, I presume 10 degrees out of a 360 degree circle or a sphere. So my thought is, what would be the minimum size the theory could spit out correct numbers?

Was thinking if it worked down to plank level, perhaps that is the 'poop' of a black hole in one universe creating a white hole, generating our universe. A 2 dimensional seed if you will.
Merrit
1.7 / 5 (3) Jan 31, 2017
Or maybe the matrix had it right all along and this is just a simulation except we aren't being used as batteries because that is just stupid. But all the info could be in coded on 2D surfaces in the form of a computer.
myplaneman70
1 / 5 (8) Feb 01, 2017
I am gonna call it like it is, this is complete BS , to think the universe is in partial OR whole a hologram , which is a fancy way to call it "not real" is to take the reality out of REALITY, if a case is made that the universe isn't real or is a hologram, is to say everything in it , including us is a 3d reality , these scientists are under a cloak of blindness with their 300 IQ's. God is the creator, and we are his creation, though it sounds over kill , life is simple yet complex. enough of the crap already , of trying to take the humanity out of humans , these studies do nothing but desensitize what is real , which everything is REAL , NOT VIRTUAL
PowerMax
4 / 5 (4) Feb 01, 2017
I am gonna call it like it is, this is complete BS , to think the universe is in partial OR whole a hologram , which is a fancy way to call it "not real" is to take the reality out of REALITY, if a case is made that the universe isn't real or is a hologram, is to say everything in it , including us is a 3d reality , these scientists are under a cloak of blindness with their 300 IQ's. God is the creator, and we are his creation, though it sounds over kill , life is simple yet complex. enough of the crap already , of trying to take the humanity out of humans , these studies do nothing but desensitize what is real , which everything is REAL , NOT VIRTUAL


You are in the wrong neighborhood
myplaneman70
1 / 5 (3) Feb 01, 2017
Truth is usually in the wrong neighborhood ;) but its ALL good
Hyperfuzzy
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 01, 2017
OK, let's review this with science, no! Every wiggle of light has a unique source. Any mathematical dimensional analysis may be reduced; however, not realistic when we begins
with a false premise.
sixstring24
1 / 5 (1) Feb 01, 2017
The universe is expanding and thus space. A particle traveling through a wave of expansion will thus appear to function as a wave. A ship traveling on the ocean is not a wave but traveling upon a wave and if observed looks like a wave. Plus if one observes this wave and it pops into existance as a particle, simply because it has been looked at, field theory, then why the two different observations from the double slit expermint? Both were observed and data collected, yet two different resultsTthe universe expanding and particles traveling along this wave will appear to be wave like in its travel based upon observation. I welcome all comments to why what I have concluded is wrong. This holographic universe theory will change everything and I just would like to have some insight. Thanks
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (1) Feb 01, 2017
The universe is expanding and thus space. A particle traveling through a wave of expansion will thus appear to function as a wave. A ship traveling on the ocean is not a wave but traveling upon a wave and if observed looks like a wave. Plus if one observes this wave and it pops into existance as a particle, simply because it has been looked at, field theory, then why the two different observations from the double slit expermint? Both were observed and data collected, yet two different resultsTthe universe expanding and particles traveling along this wave will appear to be wave like in its travel based upon observation. I welcome all comments to why what I have concluded is wrong. This holographic universe theory will change everything and I just would like to have some insight. Thanks

"pops" I don't follow. Expanding? Explain how galaxies form. Can many occur if moving toward each other or do we see those as unique. So some can be moving toward each other.
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (2) Feb 01, 2017
Basing our assumption on the Big Bang and Hubble is insufficient. First we must define what we see. Travel, faster than light, is possible.

Prove me wrong!
myplaneman70
1 / 5 (5) Feb 01, 2017
searching to the end of the universe , is essentially looking for God , these are all fruitless searches.....looking for the end , of something that is infinite within eternity , man , is so foolish to search these quests for nothing
Hyperfuzzy
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 01, 2017
searching to the end of the universe , is essentially looking for God , these are all fruitless searches.....looking for the end , of something that is infinite within eternity , man , is so foolish to search these quests for nothing

No this is not that.
Ebo2
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 02, 2017
searching to the end of the universe , is essentially looking for God , these are all fruitless searches.....looking for the end , of something that is infinite within eternity , man , is so foolish to search these quests for nothing

No this is not that.


@myplane:
"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"
Is there no sense observing and learning in your world?
Careful not to take the laziest explanation!
It's not mystical-magic, it's science.

Notmyrealname
1 / 5 (2) Feb 02, 2017
Of course the following theory will be that this two dimensional universe is actually a projection from a one dimensional reality. Also known as a black hole or singularity. Sort of like the remnants of the spontaneous decay of a massive black hole, like a big bang or something.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (2) Feb 02, 2017
@big_hairy_jimbo Your comments seem reasonable to me (although that coming from a layman is a low ranking compliment, Ha!). Certainly as far as gravity is concerned it's always bound to be the 'odd one out' because perhaps of our 'defective' perception...is that a reasonable statement?...What I mean is that experiments in machines like LHC etc give our perception a kind of intuitive push about the quantum realm and even the general public are aware of the power of the quantum realm through the use of nuclear power stations and devastating explosions. Our perception of gravity is fed on the macro scale by obvious actions but can hardly be appreciated on the quantum level, at least that is so for the majority.
Unfortunately this also feeds those who raise philosophical issues (reality, for example). After all, perception is still part of ongoing research and debates about how our brain functions (conscious/subconscious, mind etc etc) so reality should be left to those in that field.
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 03, 2017
Of course the following theory will be that this two dimensional universe is actually a projection from a one dimensional reality. Also known as a black hole or singularity. Sort of like the remnants of the spontaneous decay of a massive black hole, like a big bang or something.

This is fantasy
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (5) Feb 03, 2017
The thing I don't see discussed is where that info at the 2d boundary and comes from...
in my limited vocabulary, it comes from inside - our 3d reality. And it continues to change and add new info, so the boundary MUST grow bigger, ergo - expanding universe...
(mic drop)
Seeker2
not rated yet Feb 03, 2017
As the clock ticks what happens to the new info? Is it encoded onto the original 2d hologram around the edges? Or does it generate a new surface? In which case the present and past info forms a 3d hologram apparently.
nikola_milovic_378
1 / 5 (3) Feb 04, 2017
Any normal person who has a connection with the spiritual entity of the universe (SEU), has to be annoyed when you watch and listen to a completely unnatural explanations of what is established that poor individual unconscious, and when you hear and see their nebulous "prove" about what they do not have any demonstrated. The greatest possible antics they claim that the universe began a phenomenon of a BB.
The fact that Einstein to stupefy someone completely abnormal theories, the proof is that all those who believe him to have no awareness, and awareness is the path to understanding the true causes of the phenomenon in the universe.
Science is a new kind of religion whose idols nonsense and mirages of people without consciousness. It's really a lot of these idiotic and foolish assertion that contaminate what we get as a gift from the SEU.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 04, 2017
As the clock ticks what happens to the new info? Is it encoded onto the original 2d hologram around the edges? Or does it generate a new surface?

I visualize it as adding length, width and depth to the 2d.
In which case the present and past info forms a 3d hologram apparently.

Which we then move into...
I call it a time "recycle".

Mimath224
5 / 5 (2) Feb 04, 2017
@Whydening Gyre I note here that 'time' would then seem to have a fundamental or be a fundamental aspect here. I'm not suggesting it's possible, just thinking out loud as it were, but if time travel were possible then the information of the past must be retained. If lost then TT wouldn't be possible as there wouldn't be 'information' to form the past...??? Hmm, even that sounds a bit dubious to me as I suppose one might argue the time might retain 'imprints of information' by a 'predictable deterministic' process instead of chaos processes. If that were the case would it be that entropy was the major player? And how would that fit in or affect your time recycle?
If each 'surface' was the result of increase in overall entropy would that suggest expansion and/or acceleration was being 'fueled' by something else? I think I've just fallen into a 'dark something' (DE?) trap.
As I say, I'm not putting forward an opinion here just really juggling various ideas.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Feb 04, 2017
@MM.
As I am also "juggling" (actually it's more like Tetris) with concepts, your questions are going to require some deep thought. I very much would like to organize possible and probable answers for you (and myself) in a cogent and comprehensive manner. That not being my forte, it might take a few days to put it all together...:-)
Remember also, that I am an artist (engineer with ADHD), NOT a scientist.
I'll come back on again with my first basic by tomorrow.
snoosebaum
not rated yet Feb 05, 2017
WG , solved any artistic problems? Is your work visible anywhere ?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Feb 05, 2017
WG , solved any artistic problems? Is your work visible anywhere ?

google "travelling tine machine"
Art doesn't have problems cuz it's the answer. It should be simple and functional. Like my stuff.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 05, 2017
@Whydening Gyre thanks for the reply. And I am just a layman so you are more qualified than me. Art, the flight of Man's mind and where would we be without engineers? No cars, boats, trains etc etc...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 05, 2017
@Whydening Gyre thanks for the reply. And I am just a layman so you are more qualified than me.

Your humility does you injustice - I've seen the depth of your awareness in various posts...:-)
Art, the flight of Man's mind

That make it sound so noble and fancy...:-) More simply, it is a process of organizing, categorizing and structuring of "observations". You then start connecting dots.
Watch your grandchild stack blocks some time...
and where would we be without engineers? No cars, boats, trains etc etc...

It's ALL art and we ALL do it. Some are just a little more OCD about it...:-)
I start by trying to keep myself open to as much observational input as i am capable of - even the most obtuse.
Then, I begin looking for simple similarities among a collection of differences. Patterns, for lack of better term.
Generally, you'll find that they repeat on incremental scales, so - fractals rule...:-)
Algorythms can then be generated to reflect them
snoosebaum
Feb 05, 2017
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 05, 2017
''Art doesn't have problems'''

cept when you can't sell it

LOLOL...
Okay, I'll have to give ya that one....
savvys84
1 / 5 (1) Feb 06, 2017
I learnt from my anti gravity research 7 years ago that, the universe has got to be a hologram
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 06, 2017
I learnt from my anti gravity research 7 years ago that, the universe has got to be a hologram

Actually, it's a holographic reflection of reality over-layed onto reality. Creates misperceptions by being ever so slightly out of sync (signal lag)
BTW - how'd that AG research turn out?
AmritSorli
not rated yet Feb 06, 2017
There is no a single experimental data, universe is a hologram. All this is made up in human imagination. This idea is epistemologically dead.
1. 3D universe is existing in higher-dimensional Hilbert spaces
http://www.neuroq...view/966
2. Big Bang model has no scientific evidence
http://www.scienc...d=122019

yours amrit
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (1) Feb 06, 2017
A hologram requires a light source, we only see light when the spherical field oscillates, this cannot be simulated with a hologram without this source; so, the thought is circular. Illogical!
randomcyborg
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 06, 2017
Holographic information does not necessarily imply a physical hologram. How the conservation of information functions and how the conservation of information is implemented may be very different...
EnsignFlandry
not rated yet Feb 06, 2017
Just as a kind of side note, remember that the putative 3d external world gets mapped onto a 2d structure-- the retina. Of course, there is a complex structure in 3 space, the brain, that recreates the apparent 3d external world. But, if we simply consider the mapping onto the retina, it seems that every salient 3 space relationship is someone contained in that mapping. If that were not the case, no amount of brain processing of the image would reconstruct 3-space relationships. Of course, it might be possible to produce a 3 space construct that would be faulty, in that information would be lost...


The brain has to interpret the image on the retina. We hang objects over baby cribs so they can figure out relationships and images. The brain can be mis-wired so that images don't correspond to what's there. Some people have a condition where the left side of the universe doesn't exist. What does the "universe is a hologram " even mean?Are we lying on a surface? What is falling?
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 06, 2017
Holographic information does not necessarily imply a physical hologram. How the conservation of information functions and how the conservation of information is implemented may be very different...

This only states lack of knowledge.
randomcyborg
Feb 06, 2017
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 06, 2017
Holographic information does not necessarily imply a physical hologram. How the conservation of information functions and how the conservation of information is implemented may be very different...

This only states lack of knowledge.

OK, here's a question, "Whats the difference between spherical fields and particles?"

We have proof of the spherical fields, but no attributes of what describes a particle, boundary conditions, color, density, ... Both are equally likely, however, no empiricism or physical evidence, nor a necessity. So necessary and sufficient conditions for particles have ever been demonstrated or implied logically. Note, we only see the wrinkles in the field; so, define the missing measurement. It's like trying to define the potential of a metal plane in space. Of course it has a potential; but how do you measure it? In other words, how do you measure distant charges that are stationary to you. Or instrumentation capabilities.
savvys84
not rated yet Feb 07, 2017
I learnt from my anti gravity research 7 years ago that, the universe has got to be a hologram

Actually, it's a holographic reflection of reality over-layed onto reality. Creates misperceptions by being ever so slightly out of sync (signal lag)
BTW - how'd that AG research turn out?

@whydening
Thanks yr comment. Actually i reckon its a physical fact that its essentially a 2 D universe
Chk out
https://www.scrib...savvys84
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 08, 2017
@Whydening Gyre thanks for the reply. And I am just a layman so you are more qualified than me.

Your humility does you injustice - I've..

That make it sound so noble and fancy...:-) More simply, it is a process of organizing, categorizing and structuring of "observations"...
and where would we be without engineers? No cars, boats, trains etc etc...

It's ALL art and we ALL do it. Some are just a little more OCD about it...:-)
I start by trying to keep myself open to as much observational input as i am capable of - even the most obtuse.
Then, .... can then be generated to reflect them..
Sorry for late reply...PC down...probably in some quantum holograph,Ha...Well, I think I can say the same about your response, humility wise. Like you I too try to keep my mind open and believe me some of my ideas would test you to your limit...but another time eh?
With regard to the article I'm having problems, 3D curvature that is.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 08, 2017
@whydening
Thanks yr comment. Actually i reckon its a physical fact that its essentially a 2 D universe
Chk out
https://www.scrib...savvys84

I'm not kidding. The reflection overlaps that which it reflects - but sightly out of sync (dang time). Therefore, MAKING it 3d.
.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 08, 2017
Sorry for late reply...PC down...probably in some quantum holograph,Ha...

See what I mean by "slightly out of sync"?
Well, I think I can say the same about your response, humility wise.

Thank you.
Like you I too try to keep my mind open and believe me some of my ideas would test you to your limit...

Try me...
but another time eh?

No time like the present..:-)
With regard to the article I'm having problems, 3D curvature that is.

It's tuff realizing you are a reflection of yourself - inside a quasi-spherical reflecting entity..:-)
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 08, 2017
@Whydening Gyre 'It's tuff realizing you are a reflection of yourself - inside a quasi-spherical reflecting entity..:-)' Now that just isn't fair...I can't read your mind so don't go reading mine, Ha! Sounds like one of the 3D matrices (boxlike) that I'm messing with. 'Mirror image' numbers too. However, I have to say that I haven't met the holographic version...yet.

Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 08, 2017
keep an open mind, use only the facts, imagination is for TV and Movies. If diametrical spherical fields can explain it all; then closing your mind to reality in favor of SYFY, well I say Earthlings don't have a chance of ever reaching Andromeda. Juz say'n
randomcyborg
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 08, 2017
Hyperfuzzy, I noticed my response — "that's what I said" — to what you posted was removed by a moderator. I was not being snide or sarcastic; I was agreeing with you. I didn't intend to come across as offensive.

I apologize.

(If there was another reason my post was removed, I'm at a loss.)

It is imperative to keep an open mind and use only facts, but researchers in any field — from science to theology and everything in between and surrounding and inside and etc — must also be willing to try constantly to reinterpret all available facts. Otherwise, we would still be sleeping in caves and trying to kill each other with the thigh bone of an antelope (the part about the antelope is, if my memory is accurate — it isn't always — from "Ringworld", by Larry Niven; the part about sleeping in caves is me). Credit due, credit given.

Imagination is the most important tool possessed by the human race, as we will never have all the facts. Always begin with "what if"...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 08, 2017
@Whydening Gyre 'It's tuff realizing you are a reflection of yourself - inside a quasi-spherical reflecting entity..:-)' Now that just isn't fair...I can't read your mind so don't go reading mine, Ha! Sounds like one of the 3D matrices (boxlike) that I'm messing with. 'Mirror image' numbers too. However, I have to say that I haven't met the holographic version...yet.


I think you DO meet in in every next moment...
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 08, 2017
@Whydening Gyre 'I think you DO meet in in every next moment...' what is the interval to the next moment holograph?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 08, 2017
@Whydening Gyre 'I think you DO meet it in every next moment...' what is the interval to the next moment holograph?

Details, details...
Roughly, 2/3rd's of Planck time-ish...?
savvys84
Feb 09, 2017
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 09, 2017
@Whydening Gyre, yes thought you'd say something like that but what I want to know that no matter how short the interval what is it that connects across that gap to get to next holograph. But even a holograph has some 'thickness' so are they really 2D?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Feb 09, 2017
@Whydening Gyre, yes thought you'd say something like that but what I want to know that no matter how short the interval what is it that connects across that gap to get to next holograph.

motion. Simple kinetic. It's light, so - photons... The input (and output) is constant (ie - they're not all hitting the "reflector" at the same time)
But even a holograph has some 'thickness' so are they really 2D?

You are correct. The 2d part comes at the "reflector".
Reflector is the inside boundary of a - wait for it - giant gravity well.
We're inside a balloon for lack of better description...
All the activity we see inside (us) is akin to brownian motion on a universal scale.
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 09, 2017
Hyperfuzzy, I noticed my response — "... the human race, as we will never have all the facts. Always begin with "what if"...

OK, I agree with you, a little, but expand the idea of imagination. Imagination is also what drives schizophrenics mad, it creates playtime for kids; however, imagination without logic is nonsense.

Hyperfuzzy
5 / 5 (1) Feb 09, 2017
cont: By the way, I'm Black in a white world, with the world as mostly non-whites. Nothing offends me, except the never ending ignorance and the refusal to see that the Money Grubbers are a danger to our existence or the closed minds of Universities that teach theory as fact. Give a name to something unknown, or an almost accurate diagram and call this genius. Knowing that gravity is measurable but not where the field comes from; or calling Einstein a genius or Gluons hold the nucleus together. Deny that neutrons are an electron and proton combo. Or call field events "particles" , particle undefined or displayed, never noting that particles don't exist. Call a fast moving proton an anti-electron. etc, etc. imagination without logic.
randomcyborg
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 09, 2017
Money grubbers have always been the bane of humankind's existence — I doubt that will ever change, although their influence goes up and down.

I'm offended when anyone uses another.

I taught at the university level for over two decades, and I never said something was a fact unless I could back it up; at least 90% of my colleagues did the same, regardless of their respective fields. I am disgusted with the other 10% (they don't like me, either, as I never shut up about them). I don't know what to do about them except point them out, and I've always done that.

It is not wrong to give a name to something; it is very wrong to ignore something if there's evidence something's there. Give it a name and study it. It could revolutionize the field, or it could be a wrong bit on a data disc, but give it a name and study it, because you won't know, otherwise. Einstein understood Newtonian physics, noticed something a bit off, and said "what if" — that's why he's a genius.
randomcyborg
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 09, 2017
I agree that imagination without logic can produce nonsense (not always).

I must disagree that imagination is what "drives schizophrenics mad" — schizophrenia is a physical illness that affects the brain, causing delusions and hallucinations.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 09, 2017
I'm of the variety that doesn't dwell in the tedius minutia. It allows for a lot more "what-ifs"...:-)
schizophrenia is a physical illness that affects the brain, causing delusions and hallucinations.

Which is what REALLY drives them mad. Kinda like 500 channels of TV, all at the same time...
Too much input of that inane minutia...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 09, 2017
cont: By the way, I'm Black in a white world, with the world as mostly non-whites. Nothing offends me, ...

Correction. You're a Human stuck in an ever changing environment. Don't accept - Evolve.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 09, 2017
@Whydening Gyre, yes thought you'd say something like that but what I want to know that no matter how short the interval what is it that connects across that gap to get to next holograph.

motion. Simple kinetic. It's light, so - photons... The input (and output) is constant (ie - they're not all hitting the "reflector" at the same time)
But even a holograph has some 'thickness' so are they really 2D?

You are correct. The 2d part comes at the "reflector".
Reflector is the inside boundary of a - wait for it - giant gravity well...

Very well then, if we agree that it is kinetic/reflector based where does the 'change' come from as the next holograph will not be the same as the previous one. And what causes that 'change'. I'll have to look-up 'giant gravity well' as my 'mainstream mind' needs more input, Ha!...unless it refers to gravity emanating from a Brane?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Feb 09, 2017
Very well then, if we agree that it is kinetic/reflector based where does the 'change' come from as the next holograph will not be the same as the previous one.

from the all the "changing" photon input to the "reflector".
I guess I would consider the reflector to be the interior of an event horizon...
And what causes that 'change'.
Input that has interacted with the reflected "output"...
I'll have to look-up 'giant gravity well' as my 'mainstream mind' needs more input,

Same as regular gravity wells.
Ha!...unless it refers to gravity emanating from a Brane?

No, gravity only emanates from mass. In our case, the cumulative mass/gravity of our Universe reaches a point (somewhere WAY out there) where - guess what - even light can't escape. Hell maybe eve GRAVITY can't escape it... It forms an "almost" impenetrable event horizon that reflects photons (maybe even gravity waves) back in.
It's a WIP so keep asking questions...:-)
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 09, 2017
@Whydening Gyre Must admit I hadn't thought of a 'gravity accumulation' but wouldn't that accumulation have to be at a single point to have such strength? Oh dear, back to 'living in a BH theory'. Ha, are you a crafty one...? There's an 'element' missing in your comments which I think runs the whole thing...but it isn't mainstream thinking...and I wonder if you are deliberately avoiding using it or identify as be 'change'. Oh well, nice chatting anyway.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Feb 09, 2017
@Whydening Gyre Must admit I hadn't thought of a 'gravity accumulation' but wouldn't that accumulation have to be at a single point to have such strength?

A "frame of reference" is the operator here. From somewhere even way farther out, our Universe IS a single point ...
Oh dear, back to 'living in a BH theory'. Ha, are you a crafty one...?

Not a black hole, the next fractal level up. Doesn't have the exact arrangement of stuff as our level.
There's an 'element' missing in your comments which I think runs the whole thing...but it isn't mainstream thinking...and I wonder if you are deliberately avoiding using it or identify as be 'change'. Oh well, nice chatting anyway.

Tell me what you think is missing...
Mimath224
not rated yet Feb 09, 2017
@Whydening Gyre, thanks but '...even way farther out...' isn't that idea 'non-mainstream'? Isn't our universe supposed to make it's own volume in which to expand, that is there isn't 'even way farther out' to observe from? But I do see the point, thanks.
Tell you whats missing...not a chance. But I will give a hint... just on the back of an envelope schoolboy stuff...just write a few a few equations from basic physics and I'm sure you'll see what I mean.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Feb 09, 2017
@Whydening Gyre, thanks but '...even way farther out...' isn't that idea 'non-mainstream'?

So what? If it uses mainstream constructs, it has validity.
Isn't our universe supposed to make it's own volume in which to expand, that is there isn't 'even way farther out' to observe from? But I do see the point, thanks.

Our REAL Universe is even bigger than our imaginations. I keep it simple by visualizing the one which we exist within.
Tell you whats missing...not a chance.

Tease.
But I will give a hint... just on the back of an envelope schoolboy stuff...just write a few a few equations from basic physics and I'm sure you'll see what I mean.

Which ones would you be referring to? I don't do equations, I do visual constructs.
Loops occur, they're never exactly synchronous.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Feb 09, 2017
The real problem lies within our ability to adapt our frame of reference.
Take E=MC/2, for example.
The energy of mass times C/2 takes on different outcomes if we measure mass in a differing specific volumetric "localities" . (reference frames).
IE - the mass (and volume) of an atom versus the mass (and volume) of a galaxy.
We miss the step of saying the mass of a specific volume.
Our Universe does not subtract, multiply or divide. It only ADD's.
I like to assemble, not dissect.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 10, 2017
@Whydening Gyre Okay, I understand your comments.
'...they're never exactly synchronous...' Yep, synchronous or not would be one way of putting it...now use everyday common language to say that.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 10, 2017
@Whydening Gyre Okay, I understand your comments.
'...they're never exactly synchronous...' Yep, synchronous or not would be one way of putting it...now use everyday common language to say that.

Ahhh...You want me start sounding like Zeph...:-)
I'll need to ponder a bit to arrive at a clearer explanation, if ya don't mind...
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 10, 2017
Money grubbers have always been the bane of humankind's existence —

Ancient Egypt, an economy based upon Human Rights, had no currency. See Translation from ancient hieroglyphics in stone!

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
(Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 10, 2017
By the way, there existed a dichotomy of a person as mind, body, and spirit. These also had defined attributes, such as the spirit in conversation, or trade. Example: A negotiation leaves everyone smiling; best, "the more you serve the better."

Money?
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 10, 2017
The real problem lies within our ability to adapt our frame of reference.
Take E=MC/2, for example.
The energy of mass times C/2 takes on different outcomes if we measure mass in a differing specific volumetric "localities" . (reference frames).
IE - the mass (and volume) of an atom versus the mass (and volume) of a galaxy.
We miss the step of saying the mass of a specific volume.
Our Universe does not subtract, multiply or divide. It only ADD's.
I like to assemble, not dissect.

E = MC^2 is bogus, not logical, not true, a measure of the imaginative quanta.
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 10, 2017
I agree that imagination without logic can produce nonsense (not always).

I must disagree that imagination is what "drives schizophrenics mad" — schizophrenia is a physical illness that affects the brain, causing delusions and hallucinations.

The genetics of schizophrenia is also the genetics of intelligence. It's regulation in the brain, too much, crazy; mild, smart. Look through our long history, locate the places where schizophrenia ruled, just look at your president, juz say'n
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 10, 2017
E = MC^2 derived from Planck and De Broglie, not from M = Mo/Sqrt(1-v^2/c^2), do the derivatives. It's insane! Plus the speed of light, original wavelength divided by the measured period, simple speed of the wavelet, which is a wrinkle in the spherical field of charge, and the spherical field is from the center to infinity updated at the speed of light relative to the center, this is charge and has no mass and is the source of Newton's gravity.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 10, 2017
@Whydening Gyre Okay, I understand your comments.
'...they're never exactly synchronous...' Yep, synchronous or not would be one way of putting it...now use everyday common language to say that.

They do the photon mash? How bout a little input - where are you trying to direct this?
randomcyborg
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 10, 2017
Hyperfuzzy, any response to you would require that we discuss (and, most likely, argue heatedly) over history, sociology, psychology, psychiatry, politics, linguistics, computation theory, information theory, and the mathematics of probability and statistics. I responded with my comment about schizophrenia for the sole reason that it seemed to me that you misunderstood the illness; most (not all) people do. Perhaps I was mistaken; if so, I apologize.

I now think that I should not have responded to your comment about schizophrenia, as conversations about these topics rarely end well.

I spent far too much of my youth fighting; I don't want to waste my old age the same way.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 10, 2017
By the way, there existed a dichotomy of a person as mind, body, and spirit. These also had defined attributes, such as the spirit in conversation, or trade. Example: A negotiation leaves everyone smiling; best, "the more you serve the better."

Money?

A truly good negotiation leaves no ONE a clear winner...
gleadd13
not rated yet Feb 10, 2017
Our Universal creation.
The concept I have been pondering over for the last few days is that we created the universe and life as we know it, and we created it for us.

That we are an energy life force, possibly the only form of life, and through a desire, we created our universe and human existence to live and experience many lives over thousands of years, as an eternal conscious life form, time would be meaningless and is as thought, just an illusion.

Elements of life and of what we believe and things we take as history are nothing more than a fabrication that we generated to give us a sense of truth, a belief in our perceived reality.

To me this makes plausible sense, it makes every thing fit ?
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 10, 2017
@Whydening Gyre 'directing...' You mentioned earlier about seeing my 'various posts'. Perhaps a look there would remind you.
Am reading an interesting article by Ione Parkin concerning Art meeting Science...interesting.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 11, 2017
@Whydening Gyre 'directing...' You mentioned earlier about seeing my 'various posts'. Perhaps a look there would remind you.
Am reading an interesting article by Ione Parkin concerning Art meeting Science...interesting.

Science dissects. Art puts it back together, again, utilizing the input provided by that dissection.
At least, most of the time...
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 11, 2017
Hyperfuzzy, any response to you would require that we discuss (and, most likely, argue heatedly) over history, sociology, psychology, psychiatry, politics, linguistics, computation theory, information theory, and the mathematics of probability and statistics. I responded with my comment about schizophrenia for the sole reason that it seemed to me that you misunderstood the illness; most (not all) people do. Perhaps I was mistaken; if so, I apologize.

I now think that I should not have responded to your comment about schizophrenia, as conversations about these topics rarely end well.

I spent far too much of my youth fighting; I don't want to waste my old age the same way.

My wife works with the impaired. She knows far more than I. I simply follow advances in genetics "switches".
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 11, 2017
Our Universal creation.
The concept I have been pondering over for the last few days is that we created the universe and life as we know it, and we created it for us.

That we are an energy life force, possibly the only form of life, and through a desire, we created our universe and human existence to live and experience many lives over thousands of years, as an eternal conscious life form, time would be meaningless and is as thought, just an illusion.

Elements of life and of what we believe and things we take as history are nothing more than a fabrication that we generated to give us a sense of truth, a belief in our perceived reality.

To me this makes plausible sense, it makes every thing fit ?

Philosophy? Start with Plato, Socrates, or better, Hypatia; see what created our erroneous thinking. I think it was the barbarians, so ... juz say'n
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 11, 2017
Our Universal creation.
The concept I have been pondering over for the last few days is that we created the universe and life as we know it, and we created it for us.
...
Elements of life and of what we believe and things we take as history are nothing more than a fabrication that we generated to give us a sense of truth, a belief in our perceived reality.

To me this makes plausible sense, it makes every thing fit ?

Philosophy? Start with Plato, Socrates, or better, Hypatia; see what created our erroneous thinking. I think it was the barbarians, so ... juz say'n

Gleadd - way too over the top. We are merely the product of action/reaction.
HF - the barbarians did it right. Not a lot of thought and ethical interpretations - just action.
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 11, 2017
Our Universal creation.
The concept I have been pondering over for the last few days is that we created the universe and life as we know it, and we created it for us.
...
Elements of life and of what we believe and things we take as history are nothing more than a fabrication that we generated to give us a sense of truth, a belief in our perceived reality.

To me this makes plausible sense, it makes every thing fit ?

Philosophy? Start with Plato, Socrates, or better, Hypatia; see what created our erroneous thinking. I think it was the barbarians, so ... juz say'n

Gleadd - way too over the top. We are merely the product of action/reaction.
HF - the barbarians did it right. Not a lot of thought and ethical interpretations - just action.

Not proactive?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 11, 2017
HF - the barbarians did it right. Not a lot of thought and ethical interpretations - just action.

Not proactive?
Pro-active, yes. But they knew their "pro"s and and didn't waste so much time equivocating. They were in the business of surviving and thriving.
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 12, 2017
HF - the barbarians did it right. Not a lot of thought and ethical interpretations - just action.

Not proactive?

Pro-active, yes. But they knew their "pro"s and and didn't waste so much time equivocating. They were in the business of surviving and thriving.
OK, I'm not even going to try to justify barbarism. Survival is much easier with cooperation. Look for a result where all the aggressive male baboons suddenly die in a particular troop, the troop flourished without anymore fear. So ...
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Feb 12, 2017
Are we talking holographic Baboons here? Bit off topic isn't it?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 13, 2017
OK, I'm not even going to try to justify barbarism. Survival is much easier with cooperation.

I'm not trying to justify it, either. Just explaining it's effect. And believe it or not, cooperation has more than one inference. We cooperate, because otherwise the barbarian side of others shows up. As well as a lot of dishonesty. Too much imagining about it creates illusory thought process. Ego's get bigger and watch what happens next...
Look for a result where all the aggressive male baboons suddenly die in a particular troop, the troop flourished without anymore fear. So ...

How would you look for a result like that? And how/why did they all die? In battle with another troop?Poisoned? Tired of incessant do this and don't do that, bored to death?
The flourishing part is just a matter of waiting til the new bullies rear their ugly heads, brandishing a new set of weapons to set loose on an unsuspecting population...
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 13, 2017

How would you look for a result like that? And how/why did they all die? In battle with another troop?Poisoned? Tired of incessant do this and don't do that, bored to death?
The flourishing part is just a matter of waiting til the new bullies rear their ugly heads, brandishing a new set of weapons to set loose on an unsuspecting population...

My question, same. The article gave some genetic specific illness. I didn't buy it. I conjectured that the study of removing aggressive males from a troop was the experiment.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 13, 2017

How would you look for a result like that? And how/why did they all die? In battle with another troop?Poisoned? Tired of incessant do this and don't do that, bored to death?
The flourishing part is just a matter of waiting til the new bullies rear their ugly heads, brandishing a new set of weapons to set loose on an unsuspecting population...

My question, same. The article gave some genetic specific illness. I didn't buy it. I conjectured that the study of removing aggressive males from a troop was the experiment.

Was there a quoted study to back up the article?
And now, can we please get back to the topic of "evidence for holographic universe(s)"?
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 13, 2017

How would you look for a result like that? And how/why did they all die? In battle with another troop?Poisoned? Tired of incessant do this and don't do that, bored to death?
The flourishing part is just a matter of waiting til the new bullies rear their ugly heads, brandishing a new set of weapons to set loose on an unsuspecting population...

My question, same. The article gave some genetic specific illness. I didn't buy it. I conjectured that the study of removing aggressive males from a troop was the experiment.

Was there a quoted study to back up the article?
And now, can we please get back to the topic of "evidence for holographic universe(s)"?

Try, which I misquoted, forgive please: http://bobsutton....udy.html
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 13, 2017
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 13, 2017
Think I read it at the airport on my phone, or maybe from a hotel room, anyway, i must have been thinking about something else, my bad
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 13, 2017
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Feb 13, 2017
My apologies
http://journals.p....0020106

Okay, first... no apologies necessary. You provided evidence.
Those Sapolsky-Share links were interesting in that they remove the "internet urban myth" tag. Actually, I found the tale to be ironically entertaining. I wonder if anyone is still researching the "Garbage Dump Troop" at this time.
I can even see a (pretty remote) connection to holographic universe, in there somewhere...:-)
Reflection...
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 13, 2017
I think it was a discussion upon the origins of logic, i.e. the point I was going to: logic without imagination; case 1. Logic with imagination, imagination without logic, ... No imagination without logic is always nonsense; for logic must be used to define a reference of measure, i.e. empiricism applied with logic based upon what is known and not upon what is imagined.
Hyperfuzzy
not rated yet Feb 13, 2017
My apologies
http://journals.p....0020106

Okay, first... no apologies necessary. You provided evidence.
Those Sapolsky-Share links were interesting in that they remove the "internet urban myth" tag. Actually, I found the tale to be ironically entertaining. I wonder if anyone is still researching the "Garbage Dump Troop" at this time.
I can even see a (pretty remote) connection to holographic universe, in there somewhere...:-)
Reflection...

I think there's video. Somewhere.
Hyperfuzzy
1 / 5 (2) Feb 22, 2017
Everything is encoded onto the surface of a black hole

Lindsey, Black Holes are a fantasy of a mind without knowledge, logic, or truth. Don't buy it, stay with Maxwell and know charge does not have mass. juz say'n
randomcyborg
1 / 5 (2) Feb 22, 2017
It is, as yet, unknown whether information is encoded on the surfaces of black holes, but there is enough evidence to keep investigating that hypothesis. There is, however, overwhelming evidence that black holes exist. It is also true that overwhelming evidence is not certainty, but to convince me, and a whole lot of other people, that black holes do not exist will require more evidence that they don't exist than the amount of evidence that they do (if the evidence for both sides is the same, then it's time to look for other possible explanations).

Each form of matter-energy that we know about, unless it's confined to atomic nuclei, responds to gravity. Electromagnetic radiation, magnetism, electric charge -- each responds to gravity, because each is transmitted by photons, and photons respond to gravity; there is overwhelming evidence for this, as well.

All this overwhelming evidence can be found in physics books.
randomcyborg
1 / 5 (2) Feb 24, 2017
I made a mistake in my most recent post. I wrote, "if the evidence for both sides is the same, then it's time to look for other possible explanations". It is always time to look for other explanations, especially among theories that have been discarded.

Thank you, Lindsey — most sincerely.

Gödel!

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