US Christmas lights use more energy than entire countries

December 23, 2015
Bright lights strung on American trees, rooftops and lawns account for 6.63 billion kilowatt hours of electricity consumption ev
Bright lights strung on American trees, rooftops and lawns account for 6.63 billion kilowatt hours of electricity consumption every year, according to a recent blog post by the Center for Global Development

American household Christmas lights, a favorite holiday tradition, use up more electricity than some poorer countries—such as El Salvador or Ethiopia—do in a year.

Bright lights strung on American trees, rooftops and lawns account for 6.63 billion hours of every year, according to a recent blog post by the Center for Global Development.

That's more than the national electricity consumption of many developing countries. El Salvador for one, uses 5.35 billion kilowatt hours, while Ethiopia consumes 5.30 billion and Tanzania 4.81 billion.

The researchers, Todd Moss and Priscilla Agyapong, used data from a 2008 US Department of Energy report and the World Bank to carry out their research.

They added that the 6.63 billion kilowatt hours used by US Christmas lights represents only 0.2 percent of yearly US energy consumption, or enough power to run 14 million refrigerators.

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85 comments

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JamesG
2.8 / 5 (17) Dec 23, 2015
It's worth 0.2% to make Christmas brighter. I love the decorations of the season, even those of other faiths than mine. We should all express our cheer of the season, no matter what faith we follow.
Uncle Ira
4.8 / 5 (17) Dec 23, 2015
They added that the 6.63 billion kilowatt hours used by US Christmas lights represents only 0.2 percent of yearly US energy consumption, or enough power to run 14 million refrigerators.


Well I am sure the scientist-Skippys had a lot fun figuring that out, eh? But according to ol Ira-Skippy that is about 0.73 of a days worth. Guess the way I figure it don't make it sound so exciting though.
AGreatWhopper
2.6 / 5 (18) Dec 23, 2015
More liberal hypocrisy. Yeah, I just can't imagine why the deniers don't take it all seriously.
jljenkins
2.8 / 5 (17) Dec 23, 2015
JamesG
]It's worth 0.2% to make Christmas brighter. I love the decorations of the season, even those of other faiths
than mine. We should all express our cheer of the season, no matter what faith we follow.


And there's America in a nutshell. Turn it into a meaningless stat, thump your Bible and crow about how you really don't give a shit for anything but what populates your tiny little world.
RichManJoe
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 23, 2015
But we are the privileged ones.
Lord_jag
2 / 5 (12) Dec 23, 2015
Of course the lights come on after dark, which is off peak hours.

So the power grid doesn't care. If anything it's a place for all that off peak power to go.
Lord_jag
2.2 / 5 (10) Dec 23, 2015
Aren't Ethiopia and Tanzania places that cook their food with dung?

I'd hardly expect them to have a few dozen nuclear power plants.
rgw
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 23, 2015
Electricity should be outlawed.
rgw
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 23, 2015
Aren't Ethiopia and Tanzania places that cook their food with dung?

I'd hardly expect them to have a few dozen nuclear power plants.


And they are happy to have that dung.
antigoracle
2.8 / 5 (13) Dec 23, 2015
Hmm.....where are the Chicken Littles? Must be out staring at those Christmas lights.
rgw
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 23, 2015
In any event who as 14 million refrigerators?
orti
1.3 / 5 (16) Dec 23, 2015
While Christians celebrate the birth of a child, the secularists require the death of many (and complain about wasted light).
nilbud
3.4 / 5 (5) Dec 23, 2015
In two minutes I got better figures.

http://www.indexm...sv:et:tz
nilbud
4 / 5 (12) Dec 23, 2015
While Christians celebrate the birth of a child, the secularists require the death of many (and complain about wasted light).

The fictional birth of a fictional child in a fake holiday jammed on top of the midwinter festival which pre-dates all religions and will exist long after they're tales from the dark ages.
asok_smith
2.1 / 5 (14) Dec 24, 2015
This is a serious problem, all right, and it requires a serious solution. I propose a new Federal law that limits total U.S. Christmas light power consumption to more than, say, the average power output of North Korea. It's the only reasonable thing to do.

To make things fair, I suggest the new law allocate via a Christmas light lottery. Every U.S. household gets to enter the lottery a single time for a 100-light-string equivalent. Winners can choose to use their allocation for an indoor tree or for exterior decoration, but not both. Losers are nominally just chit out of luck. However, winners will be allowed to resell their allocation at whatever price they choose. This gives the losers SOME hope that they too might still have a chance at Christmas lighting. However, no one will be allowed to possess more than a single allocation, because otherwise those evil rich people are likely to end up with an unfair amount of Christmas lighting. You know, because they are rich. And evil.
asok_smith
1.5 / 5 (8) Dec 24, 2015
"no more than" not "more than"
Metlman
3.2 / 5 (9) Dec 24, 2015
Wow, people seem to take this article as an attack on holiday lighting.

Its merely pointing out an observation. And if you happen to like saving energy, you could always buy more efficient lighting. You don't have to give that up.

Its like Fireworks. They typically cause harm to birds and property, so you could either light fireworks in a more deserted area, such as over the sea or in the desert, or you could replace fireworks in populated areas with laser display shows, which are pretty dazzling themselves. But you don't have to do either one, thats just your choice.
Gigel
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 24, 2015
Also, a developing country may do stove cooking to levels up to 100 times the rate of US same activity.

I don't particularly like decorative lights (or any light that is superfluous), but I don't get where the article heads to. Good thing they don't compare US Christmas lights (and it has to be US, not Denmark, France or Russia, after all the US is the epitome of civilized world, bearing all its disadvantages that primitive bushmen societies didn't have) to some common tribal activities in the forests of New Guinea - say the US eats a million times more meat than one said tribe. Captain Jean-Luc Picard and his crew are probably ashamed they too waste huge amounts of fusion energy while some bushmen still fry their freshly run to death meat on camp fire. Captain Picard thinks about lighting a huge bonfire on Bridge 1...
ab3a
3.7 / 5 (15) Dec 24, 2015
This comparison is silly. El Salvador and Ethiopia are not developed anywhere near as much as the US is, and even if they were, they have populations and land sizes that are a fraction of the that of the US.

One might as well compare the power usage of the International Space station to the power usage by of those isolated Amazonian tribes. Next you'll have to figure what to change to remedy this horrible imbalance of resources. How can we ever redistribute the wealth?

Mumble grumble spit...
cgsperling
3.4 / 5 (10) Dec 24, 2015
We can save energy by using the new laser projector lights.....at the expense of blinding and distracting airline pilots in flight.
Forestgnome
3.4 / 5 (10) Dec 24, 2015
We all need to come together and send some of our unneeded Christmas lights to Ethiopia. They are in need, and we can help.
plaasjaapie
3.5 / 5 (8) Dec 24, 2015
And Japan used to spend more on business entertainment than the entire GDP of the Philippines. What is the point of this screed?
Amoeboid
3.4 / 5 (10) Dec 24, 2015
This article fails very badly to put it in perspective.
U.S. Electricity Consumption: 4686 billion kWh/yr
Christmas Lights: 7 billion kWh/yr
Overall percentage: 0.15%

Your air-conditioner running for a few hours uses as much energy as your Christmas lights do over holidays. You can save a lot more than 0.15% by setting the thermostat higher in the summer lower in the winter.
Wolf358
4.1 / 5 (9) Dec 26, 2015
I've noticed a big increase in LED lighting over the tiny incandescent lights. That's a human thing: we come up with a light that draws a tenth the power and use 20 more of them...
Aliensarethere
3 / 5 (8) Dec 26, 2015
So what? The owners are surely paying for the electrical energy.
jim_xanara
2.3 / 5 (16) Dec 26, 2015
It would be nice if we could get as much attention for the Palestinian babies being murdered by Zionists every day as one historically questionable little Jew-boy does.
antigoresockpuppet
2.6 / 5 (10) Dec 26, 2015
antigoracle 2 / 5 (4) Dec 23, 2015
Hmm.....where are the Chicken Littles? Must be out staring at those Christmas lights.


lol Wasting time as usual. BTW, I saw you at the meeting, Sugar Daddy! Hope you don't mind me posting this from your page. https://www.flick...29526081
kochevnik
1.5 / 5 (8) Dec 26, 2015
But we are the privileged ones.
Until we foreclose on you. Then you will need a 48hr crash course on Mandarin language to find a job
pntaylor
3 / 5 (6) Dec 26, 2015
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact these lights use "after hours" and "off peak" electricity. That's the power which is being generated, whether needed or not, and cannot be stored. (We haven't figured out how to do that yet) This energy goes to waste, if not used. So, we are not wasting anything. We are just using what we have available. The fact other countries do not have energy available, does Not make our usage wasteful.
A completely useless "article" and foolish comparisons.
viko_mx
4.2 / 5 (10) Dec 26, 2015
Nowhere in the Bible we can find that the christians must celebrate the birth of the Savior. This is an ancient pagan celebration dressed in christian clothing in pagan Roman empire at the beginning of the first millennium BC.
pntaylor
3 / 5 (6) Dec 26, 2015
Hey, Viko, no one gives a rat's ass. Talking about Christmas lights does Not open the door to you harassing other peoples beliefs. If you do not wish to celebrate Christmas, that's fine but don't tell someone else they shouldn't.
Lord_jag
3.5 / 5 (11) Dec 27, 2015
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact these lights use "after hours" and "off peak" electricity.


Actually I did mention that.

No one liked that fact.

Right now the peak is mid day. If you see it as a plot, it starts low, goes to a mid-day peak and goes back low. Yes. It's a big frown.

Lets turn that frown upside down by making free power all day long from solar. Then lets get to work on serious overnight storage.
gkam
2 / 5 (16) Dec 27, 2015
"Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact these lights use "after hours" and "off peak" electricity. That's the power which is being generated, whether needed or not, and cannot be stored. (We haven't figured out how to do that yet) This energy goes to waste, if not used."
--------------------------------------

NO!

Electricity is generated to match the load, exactly, not more or less, or the voltages and other characteristics go extreme. It is not generated if there is no load.

When you plug in your toaster, the physical force needed to produce that power is put directly on the shaft of the generator. The power company then raises the power level to carry that, or the system voltage and/or frequency goes down. To make it worse, alternating current and their reactive effects are complex.
FritzVonDago
2.5 / 5 (11) Dec 27, 2015
So what? This is America not some third world cesspool country. We have a culture here that is the envy of the world or did until Obama allowed the world to start flocking here illegally.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (16) Dec 27, 2015
" We have a culture here that is the envy of the world "
------------------------------------

Perhaps you could read some foreign press?
jljenkins
3 / 5 (2) Dec 27, 2015
Hypocrites left, right and center. This is my position in a nutshell. Good to see someone sees what total asses everyone is, regardless of their position on AGW, earth bound objects, politics, you name it. http://www.thegua...techange
jljenkins
3 / 5 (4) Dec 27, 2015
gkam

2 /5 (4) 5 hours ago
" We have a culture here that is the envy of the world "
------------------------------------

Perhaps you could read some foreign press?


He's obviously never been to the UK. Only about every other day you hear someone say, "I'm so glad I don't live in the US where I'd have to worry about losing my savings if I ever got sick, or shot if I didn't." But what can you expect from a country where the business of business is fraud? Americans are actually worse than North Koreans for willfully parroting the complete and utter tosh that those in power dream up. There's even a journal of American fraud, fraudsters and what they'd like you to do. It's called Forbes.
jljenkins
3 / 5 (6) Dec 27, 2015
So what? This is America not some third world cesspool country. We have a culture here that is the envy of the world or did until Obama allowed the world to start flocking here illegally.


Don't let the facts get in the way of parroting Rush Limpdick! ROFLMAO It's a good thing those types never use data. They'd have to come up with a Bush-Clinton-Bush conspiracy to explain the graphic if the POTUS is responsible. And give Obummer credit for having it at the lowest rate of growth in 25 years. http://www.pewres...ants.png

Just smile, sentient ones, and remember Pandora Hagadakis. Remember her? Left social media to take out cranks? I know her from school and we see each other every few months. Good thing her husband is a lawyer, but I have to say, she's quite an impressive collection of notches on her belt!

BTW, gkam, Fritz is a sock puppet.
AGreatWhopper
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 27, 2015
lol Cranks should have a 3% protest movement like Occupy. Guess both are a symptom of the "one big happy family" Nanny State. 97% of Americans are cool. It's that 1-3% that ruin everything! lol How feckless and deluded. 3.5%. That's the percent of the population that are illegals. "Most powerful nation on earth"...but 3% of the population can ruin everything. 11 guys with box cutters. Two guys with a pressure cooker. Ever heard the saying you judge someone by the quality of their enemies? Americans are pretty pitiful.
jim_xanara
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 27, 2015
Ya think? Thousands killed in The Blitz, millions forced into air raid shelters all night long and British cities went to work in the morning and started cleaning up the mess, business continued as normal. A teen with a pressure cooker on the loose shuts down Boston for a day. What a whopping great load of wussies!!!
gkam
1.7 / 5 (15) Dec 27, 2015
Yeah, and now they are SCARED of Muslims!! Oh no! Somebody save us from the pathetic fearful, the American Conservative Cowards.

When two draft-dodgers screamed "WMD!" Americans all over got not scared, but SCARED! They gave away MY civil liberties because they got SCARED.

Americans are cowards. Even our tough-talking folk here got fooled by The Dubya, and sent our sons and daughters to become killers of those who had done nothing to us, because they were SCARED.

Pathetic.
kochevnik
1 / 5 (5) Dec 28, 2015
A teen with a pressure cooker on the loose shuts down Boston for a day. What a whopping great load of wussies!!!
He had FBI training, so yanks just participating in the fright industry as they mindlessly do with every other bit of social engineering planned for them
Garrote
2 / 5 (5) Dec 28, 2015
Which is nothing like believing every photoshopped image and disinformation story coming out of Putin's crank factories. The US and Russia remind me of Chicago during Prohibition. Capone would trumpet how he helped the poor and how Buggs Moran was just a dirty crook. That's true; he was much better than Moran. Doesn't mean he wasn't a violent sociopath as well. That's the US. "We're so much better". Yeah. Doesn't mean you're good. In fact you're China without the ability to deal with Russia. Or the cash. Why would yanks have to learn Mandarin? They all know English. Hell, even Cantonese speakers don't have to know Mandarin. lol You must be new at the factory. Don't let shorty find out spin was stupid. Little Napolean complex, poor body concept- you don't want to piss those types off.
Mike_Massen
2 / 5 (8) Dec 28, 2015
viko_mx says
Nowhere in the Bible we can find that the christians must celebrate the birth of the Savior
Who says they can't if they want to ?

Beg pardon, how can jesus be saviour, Dark Ages followed for 100's of yrs afterwards - why because christian religious zealots relied on imaginary god & persecuted enquiry !

Besides did jesus really sacrifice, how so, he claimed son of god therefore can't die - logic ?

NB: Science developing paradigm counters (religious) emotive claim started circa ~500 yrs ago, long after all mainstream religions established, what does that tell you & especially so as all mainstream religions NEVER dealt with suffering ?

viko_mx are you for or against doctors, don't they go against gods will of punishment consistent with genesis against innocent Eve ?

viko_mx says
This is an ancient pagan celebration dressed in christian clothing in pagan Roman empire
No. Druids, Winter solstice, jesus born Aug/Sep.

viko_mx go away please
antigoracle
3.4 / 5 (5) Dec 28, 2015
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact these lights use "after hours" and "off peak" electricity. That's the power which is being generated, whether needed or not, and cannot be stored. (We haven't figured out how to do that yet) This energy goes to waste, if not used. So, we are not wasting anything. We are just using what we have available. The fact other countries do not have energy available, does Not make our usage wasteful.
A completely useless "article" and foolish comparisons.

Uh huh. So, when you get your next power bill, don't pay it, in fact tell them they must pay you for using all that power that was going to waste.
ab3a
4.3 / 5 (6) Dec 28, 2015
Electricity is generated to match the load, exactly, not more or less, or the voltages and other characteristics go extreme. It is not generated if there is no load.


gkam, there is a great deal of latitude for how much energy is spent on generation and the actual amount that shows up on the grid. Your assumption that they must be one and the same is flawed.
gkam
1.1 / 5 (8) Dec 28, 2015
No, it is not. Folk think we keep generating to keep the lines full, or something. Generators match the load exactly, plus losses. Nothing is wasted.

If the load on the generator is 11.173 MW, then that is what they put out. When it changes, they must adapt, too, and increase the fuel and control the exciter voltages to keep the line at proper voltage. In aggregate, it is not terrifically difficult, but with a small set of loads which are self-controlled or owner-controlled, it can be difficult.

The amount used must equal the amount generated at each instant or conditions change.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 28, 2015
anti, I gave you a one when I meant a five above.

Everybody seems to have their own idea of how electricity works. Electricity deals with the dual force in the Universe, Electromagnetism, which means we have both electric and magnetic fields about which to think. Continually-changing AC voltages and currents can make it terrifically difficult to conceptualize for those not in the field or not educated in it.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 28, 2015
If you folk want even more to consider, look into the various current waveshapes created by the interaction of voltages and load currents, and it becomes even more technical and difficult.

If any of you want to see what solid state loads do to the grid, tell me, and I'll send you to actual examples of the problems we face with non-linear loads, such as electronics and electrical controls.
viko_mx
2 / 5 (8) Dec 28, 2015
Beg pardon, how can jesus be saviour, Dark Ages followed for 100's of yrs afterwards - why because christian religious zealots relied on imaginary god & persecuted enquiry !

Big mistake typical for you wishful thinking. Dark ages owe to the catholic church and its not biblical teachings. The great social, economic and scientific progress in Europe immediately after the dark ages, which has no analogue in other places in the world, is due to protestantism at the heart of which is the word of God. Your ignorance is screaming. Educate yourself.

The Bible does not state the date on which born the Son of God, so the celebration of this holiday by people who are perceived as christians seems strange to me.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 28, 2015
Why does your god inflict the world's deadliest tornadoes on the Bible Belt?
Duude
1 / 5 (1) Dec 28, 2015
So many Christmas displays are LED and they're all used in off-grid hours. While we recharge our smart phones so we can spend countless hours texting BS to our heart's content. But I suppose it's not PC to bring up that today.
barakn
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 28, 2015
Something I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact these lights use "after hours" and "off peak" electricity. -pntaylor
You and a few other commenters failed to check on when peak hours actually occur. Looking at peak hours from power companies from both coasts and 3 different latitudes, we see that during winter hours, the main peak is 5 to 9 PM. https://www.bge.c...ing.aspx http://www.pge.co...dex.page http://www.toront...tes.aspx There are two main kinds of Christmas light users, those that run them starting at sunset or when they get off work til they go to bed, and Clark Griswold, who runs it sunset to sunrise. Sunset even for the lowest latitudes in the US occurs before 6 PM. This means that some or most of the time, Christmas lights are run DURING PEAK HOURS.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (9) Dec 28, 2015
Dark Ages followed for 100's of yrs afterwards - why because christian religious zealots relied on imaginary god & persecuted enquiry
Right... then luther came along, resulting in a schism which ignited a 30 years war during which 1/3 the population of germany died.

This is referred to as religious 'progress'.
The Bible does not state the date on which born the Son of God, so the celebration of this holiday by people who are perceived as christians seems strange to me
Birth on or near the winter solstice was assigned to many similar godmen which predate your lovegod; as was the virgin birth, martyrdom, and rebirth. Ie it was fashionable, another way of enticing adherents of these passe godmen into the fold.

The bible doesnt mention the trinity either, or hell specifically. These were also added because pagans were already familiar with the concepts.

Your catch-all religion took centuries to design and fine-tune. And it still aint righ
Lord_jag
4 / 5 (8) Dec 28, 2015
gkam
The power company then raises the power level to carry that, or the system voltage and/or frequency goes down. To make it worse, alternating current and their reactive effects are complex.


wait wait wait... The... frequency goes down?

Is that really what you just said right there?

The frequency. You, sir, don't have a clue do you?

I'm with you on most of what you say in any other thread, but I'm thinking you're hurting your cause more than helping it with statements like that.

No. The frequency is locked. All the frequencies are locked. If one generator was even the least bit out of sync with any other generator it would be catastrophic. The frequencies MUST remain exactly the same, and in exactly the same phase.

The voltage will reduce, sure. It's allowed to be from 105V to 125V, but for crying out loud don't allow the phase of your generator to change!

Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (10) Dec 28, 2015
the power company then raises the power level to carry that, or the system voltage and/or frequency goes down.To make it worse, alternating current and their reactive effects are complex.


wait wait wait... The... frequency goes down?


That's glam-Skippy the Senior Engineer for PG&E you are talking to.

Is that really what you just said right there?


He is in the business so he ought to know.

The frequency. You, sir, don't have a clue do you?


Are you doubting the glam-Skippy?

No. The frequency is locked. All the frequencies are locked. If one generator was even the least bit out of sync with any other generator it would be catastrophic. The frequencies MUST remain exactly the same, and in exactly the same phase.


That's what I thought too.

The voltage will reduce, sure. It's allowed to be from 105V to 125V, but for crying out loud don't allow the phase of your generator to change!


But he is the Senior Engineer.
gkam
1 / 5 (10) Dec 28, 2015
If you overload an generator and not keep it properly fueled, it will lose frequency. Grid frequency is synchronized but not "locked", and can vary during the day imperceptibly, but at the end of the day all the cycles are accounted for in that time period.

In my day, we still had synchroscopes for manual connection to the grid. The generator did not have to be exactly on the button, because the grid will bring it into compliance. If it is too far out, the currents between the generator and the grid could be great and the magnetic forces extreme, causing damage to the generator and probably other equipment.

Lord_jag
4.1 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
No. If you overload a generator it will drop voltage output. It will sever itself from the grid as a last resort. It WILL NEVER CHANGE FREQUENCY.

If one generator moved even 45 degrees out of phase with the others it would be catastrophic. Why you ask? Well easy. What is alternating current? Oh well that's a sign wave. What happens if every generator in the area wants the voltage to be zero but this one generator is still cranking out +45 degrees of phase at 35,000V peak or 24,745 volts? Well that right there is a dead short of 24,745 volts times whatever every single generator can push. Straight through the coils of this generator. We're talking thousands of amps with enough voltage to make it happen.

You're shorting out the entire grid though that one generator because you thought it was fine for that one generator to move out of sync with the rest.

Bravo. You just killed the entire power grid.

Every single one. clap. clap.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
OMG, jag, are you serious? 45 degrees? What fool would try that? You have to be within a degree or two.

I think you should visit a power station. Your best time is getting close to peak, at a peaking plant. I have only seen hydro units connected manually.
Lord_jag
4.1 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
FYI look at IEEE standard 1537.

If your frequency is out or the amplitude difference you're producing vs whats on the grid is above a threshold then the standard states that the source must cease to energize usually within 0.16 seconds or within 10 cycles of 60 Hz
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
"If your frequency is out or the amplitude difference you're producing vs whats on the grid is above a threshold then the standard states that the source must cease to energize usually within 0.16 seconds or within 10 cycles of 60 Hz"
---------------------------------

If your source is out by 45 degrees, it will happen a lot sooner than ten cycles.
Lord_jag
4.1 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
A degree or two? No. A degree. Not "or two". Not any more than one. And that is only to give you some ability to get back in phase. If you get anywhere near a full degree out then you're not helping the grid at all.

45 degrees was to show you the point. You'll see problems way before that. The point is that generators WILL NOT lower frequency just because they're overloaded.

You start to drift out of phase and you have 10 cycles to fix it or get the heck off the power grid.

Yes... *I* should visit a power station (rolling eyes) You should learn remedial electrical theory.

Reminder. I agree with the sentiment of most that you say, but don't push into area's you really don't know. This is clearly one of them.

Or go ahead. Tell me again how generators deal with overloading.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 29, 2015
Or go ahead. Tell me again how generators deal with overloading.


You quit trying to match the load. And if you don't want to break something, you do it BEFORE the generator reaches it's load limit. You do that by switching off some the circuits that on THAT generator.

But hey, what do I know, I am just a goober who is not in the business like glam-Skippy isn't either.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
They slow down. I think you are trying to tell me the Sacred Grid keeps them all supervised at exactly sixty Hertz, but even grids vary in frequency at times, as I stated. If a local load change or other problem overloads a generator, they can vary the output to keep the voltage up, but if the power from the Prime Mover is not increased, the frequency will drop and the unit will trip off in an underfrequency.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
Ira thinks we are talking about his home generator. The only circuit this one is connected to is called the grid.
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
I think you are trying to tell me the Sacred Grid keeps them all supervised at exactly sixty Hertz,


Is that what you call the circuits that sample the grid so they can all stay withing the proscribed limits?

but even grids vary in frequency at times, as I stated.


The Jag-Skippy told you where to look for the right answer. They DO NOT VARY MORE THAN ONE DEGREE OF ROTATION or the go off the grid. You will never see 57 or 63 hertz power. It won't get out of the powerhouse for you to see.

You have crashed and burned Skippy, AGAIN. And as usual you think you can bluster your way through. Cher, you really are as dumb as a cypress stump.
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (9) Dec 29, 2015
Ira thinks we are talking about his home generator.


No, because my home generator can go to 55 or 65 hertz will cause non problems to anything.

The only circuit this one is connected to is called the grid.


Oh yeah. Well I suppose you have never heard of rolling blackouts or rolling brownouts. Intentional ones when the system gets over loaded? That figures, you are such the idiot and sure do seem to like drawing attention to it.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 30, 2015
OMG, Ira, your head has the density of Depleted Uranium. You apparently do not understand we are talking about paralleling AC generators on a common grid.

But like the kid said: "That figures, you are such the idiot and sure do seem to like drawing attention to it."
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 30, 2015
OMG, Ira, your head has the density of Depleted Uranium. You apparently do not understand we are talking about paralleling AC generators on a common grid.


Well nice try Skippy. But apparently I did and you did not. That's exactly what Jag-Skippy was trying to explain to you. (And that is just one more example of why you can not be all you claim to be.) Cher, you are in troll land. All you have left is to try to annoy peoples for payback or think up a new name and try again.

But like the kid said: "That figures, you are such the idiot and sure do seem to like drawing attention to it."


Yeah, like not knowing the frequency is rock steady in line AC. Or not knowing that terahertz EM is infrared and visible light. Or not knowing the reactance does not cause a power loss. Choot, you don't even know the difference between the Amateur Radio Service and Citizen's Band.

The list of things you got wrong would take a couple of hundred pages.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 30, 2015
P.S. for you glam-Skippy.

That's right Skippy. Trollville. You are right there with Really-Skippy, Bennie-Skippy, JVK-Skippy, Returnering-Skippy, viko-Skippy, cantdrive-NAZI-Skippy and all the Zephir-Skippys. And just like them, you are too stupid to realize it.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 30, 2015
Yeah, Ira, you swamp goobers are the only smart ones.

BTW, you made fun and ridiculed the area where Mike Massen lives. I looked up where YOU live, and found it much worse.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 30, 2015
BTW, you made fun and ridiculed the area where Mike Massen lives.


I don't remember having fun or making ridicule of it. I don't know anything about it. But I might have fooled around some with him.

I looked up where YOU live, and found it much worse.


Good, maybe you will not be feeling the urge to come visit.

But please answer one question for me. (Bet you can't) Why you think I care what you found? What you found does not have anything to do with what I am doing or going to do. Cher, if I did not like where I am, I would move to some other place. So what you don't like it? I am glad you do not like it, it means you will star away. (I wish you would get all the Texans to stay away too. And the east bank Texans too that come over from Mississippi.)
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 30, 2015
Don't like having your silly game turned on you?
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 30, 2015
Don't like having your silly game turned on you?


Skippy you sure are stupid. Can't you read? I ask why you think I care? Most peoples would take that to mean, I do not care one way or the other what you think of Louisiana. All you are is some couyon on the interweb, nothing you say do or think has any kind of effect on me at all. All I am is some coonass couyon on the interweb, nothing you say do or think has any kind of effect on me.

I will ask again because you didn't answer (I bet you can't). Why do you think I care the least little bit what glam-Skippy thinks of me, of Louisiana or me in Louisiana? All you are doing is pointing out the things you do care about. (But you are too stupid to realize it.)
gkam
1 / 5 (8) Dec 30, 2015
Leave the good people of Louisiana out of it. This is between one of the silly ones and me.

When I try to discuss something technical, you always make silly personal remarks, as if you were still on the playground. That is not like the professionals I worked with and for in Alabama Power, Georgia Power, Mississippi Power, Gulf Power, Southwest Electric Power, and a few others down there. They were some of the best engineers with whom I have worked.

You are the exception, and are not real.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 30, 2015
Leave the good people of Louisiana out of it. This is between one of the silly ones and me.

When I try to discuss something technical, you always make silly personal remarks, as if you were still on the playground. That is not like the professionals I worked with and for in Alabama Power, Georgia Power, Mississippi Power, Gulf Power, Southwest Electric Power, and a few others down there. They were some of the best engineers with whom I have worked.

You are the exception, and are not real.


Okayeeei. I take that as "You're right, can not answer the question and want to change the subject".
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (9) Dec 30, 2015
Leave the good people of Louisiana out of it.


You are the one who brought up looking my home up and disapproving. So why I got to leave it out when I answer?
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Dec 30, 2015
No, silly, I did not disapprove of your home. I remarked that you made fun of the home of Mike, and yours was worse. It was a good lesson. It is not up to me to approve or disapprove of your life, and I have no interest in it.

But to help you with your calculations, it typically takes between 550-600 or so kWh/ton to melt iron in our electric induction furnaces. (Gray and Ductile Iron Castings Handbook, IFS 1971) Figure it out.
Uncle Ira
4.4 / 5 (9) Dec 30, 2015
I did not disapprove of your home. I remarked that you made fun of the home of Mike,


That is a lie. But we are used to it. I never did make fun of his home. You said you looked up my home and it was worse, nothing about Mike-Skippy's just it was worse. Mike's house came after. I have seen yours and it is a tiny little shack compared to mine.

and yours was worse.


Okayeei, if you say so Cher.

It was a good lesson.


Uh, okayeei again. It was that? Good thing you are not still giving lessons to engineers.

It is not up to me to approve or disapprove of your life, and I have no interest in it.


Then why you keep bringing it up about the swamps and the mud and boats like you think I care what you think?

it typically takes between 550-600 or so kWh/ton to melt iron in our electric induction furnaces.


You got lost Skippy, that is the other article.

Figure it out.


I did, I figured you lied again.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (9) Dec 30, 2015
Georgie is confusing enemies and articles now. Not much time to repent before there's nothing left but a drool puddle.

I wonder if george ever could lie convincingly, besides to himself.
kochevnik
3 / 5 (2) Dec 30, 2015
I misread title as "US Christians waste more energy than entire countries"
Lord_jag
3.9 / 5 (7) Dec 31, 2015
Gkam - They slow down. I think you are trying to tell me the Sacred Grid keeps them all supervised at exactly sixty Hertz, but even grids vary in frequency at times, as I stated. If a local load change or other problem overloads a generator, they can vary the output to keep the voltage up, but if the power from the Prime Mover is not increased, the frequency will drop and the unit will trip off in an underfrequency.


Why do you still insist on that "the grid varies in frequency"

What is the grid? It's a whole bunch of loads and a few tens of thousands of generators. So what is varying in frequency? The generators? How many? What is causing, all of a sudden, half the generators to decide to diverge from the common goal of staying in sync?

If a load change or other problem overloads a generator.... IT DOES NOT SLOW DOWN! It reduces voltage. Period. End of story. There is no slowing down. Why can't you get that through your head? If that doesn't work, off the grid!
Lord_jag
3.5 / 5 (8) Dec 31, 2015
You're either in sync or you're off the grid.

Pop quiz. You have a primary generator. Lets say for discussion it's generating 220VAC (never ever happens - generators produce transmission voltages but just for arguments sake)

It's happily chugging along at 3000 RPM and producing 60 Hz output. It's coolant runs out and it's overheating. Friction climbs. Speed starts to dwindle. It's down to 2975RPM and producing 59.5Hz. Totally acceptable, right?

How long until you're 1 degree out of phase?

How long before IEEE regulations say you MUST sever from the grid?

Show your work.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (8) Jan 02, 2016
Reminder. I agree with the sentiment of most that you say, but don't push into area's you really don't know. This is clearly one of them
Perhaps this is only because you havent checked most of his sentiments. Perhaps if you did you would be reluctant to agree with most anything this flaming psychopath has to say.

Hard to check the veracity of his one-liner t shirt sloganeering posts I know but then theyre hard to count as 'sentiments' arent they? Theyre more a revelation of the sub-millisecond nature of gkams concentration span.

"Those of us who have had experiences with psychopaths know that the language of the psychopath is two-dimensional. They are, as someone once said, as "deep as a thimble.""

-This does not leave much capacity for gauging the penalties for making things up as he goes.
gkam
1 / 5 (9) Jan 02, 2016
jag, I am not sure if you are intentionally making the wrong case or what. I did not say generators hooked to a common grid would vary in frequency independently, I said that if loads increased and were not compensated for by exciter and input changes, a generator would lose frequency as well as voltage.

I also said entire grids can vary, too, but very slightly, and at the end of the day all the cycles must be accounted for and brought to the correct number.

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