Tesla's deal for SolarCity could speed sustainable energy

Tesla's deal for SolarCity could speed sustainable energy
In a Sept. 29, 2015 file photo, Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla Motors Inc., talks about the Model X car at the company's headquarters, in Fremont, Calif. On Monday, Aug. 1, 2016, Tesla and SolarCity announced they have entered into an agreement under which Tesla will acquire SolarCity. Tesla will pay approximately $2.6 billion for solar panel maker SolarCity in an all-stock deal. (AP Photo/Marcio Jose Sanchez, File)

Tesla wants to put its car and energy storage businesses under one solar-powered roof.

Tesla said Monday it will buy solar panel maker SolarCity Corp. in an all-stock deal worth $2.6 billion. The deal must still be approved by the government and shareholders at both companies. It's expected to close in the fourth quarter if it goes through.

Thirteen-year-old Tesla currently makes two luxury vehicles—the Model S sedan and Model X SUV— as well as Powerwall and Powerpack energy storage units for homes and businesses.

The company said Monday that a tie-up with SolarCity would create a one-stop shop for cleaner energy. With one service call, customers could get their solar panels installed and connected to a Powerwall, which preserves energy for later use. Users could also get the system hooked up to chargers for one of Tesla's vehicles.

"This is really all part of solving the sustainable energy problem," said Elon Musk, the chairman and biggest shareholder of both companies, during a conference call.

But some have questioned the wisdom of the deal, which combines two money-losing companies that already have a lot on their plates.

Tesla is working feverishly on its new, lower-cost Model 3 sedan, which is due out by the end of next year, as well as pickups, electric buses and semi-trucks. It's in the midst of building one of the world's largest factories in Nevada to make batteries. And it's under investigation by the government after the semi-autonomous Autopilot system in its Model S failed to prevent a fatal crash in Florida.

Ten-year-old SolarCity is the top provider of residential solar panels in the U.S., and installs about one-fifth of all commercial solar panels. But the company said Monday that it experienced lower-than-expected residential bookings in the first half of the year, so it's reducing its full-year guidance for megawatts installed.

Others have questioned the conflicts of interest in the deal. Musk owns a 26 percent stake in Tesla Motors Inc., based in Palo Alto, California, and a 22.5 percent stake in SolarCity Corp., which is based in nearby San Mateo, California. Musk's cousins, Lyndon Rive and Peter Rive, run SolarCity.

But Musk said the companies have synergies they can't take advantage of unless they're combined.

"The point of the merger is to get rid of the conflicts," he said. "Until then it's very limited what we can do unless we are one company."

Musk said he believes the companies could save $150 million to $200 million in the first year alone by streamlining manufacturing, sales and service. Customers could learn about SolarCity products at Tesla's 190 stores, for example, and save on installation costs because they'd be done more efficiently. Tesla also would give SolarCity access to international customers.

SolarCity's stock slid more than 8 percent to $24.56 in afternoon trading Monday. Tesla's shares fell 1.3 percent to $231.71.

Tesla's current offer values SolarCity's shares at $25.37. That's less than the $26.50 to $28.50 value it placed on them in June, when it made its initial overture to SolarCity. Musk said he had no role in establishing the value of the deal.

"I know about as much as you do about how this price was obtained," he said.

S&P Global raised its target price for SolarCity shares to $26 but reiterated its "sell" opinion on Tesla shares Monday, saying the deal benefits SolarCity more than Tesla.

"We see benefits from a combined solar/storage offering and manufacturing efficiencies, but remain concerned about cash flow and capital needs," S&P analyst Efraim Levy said in a research note to investors.

The deal may draw more attention to the financial position of both companies. Tesla has lost $1.2 billion in the past two years alone while SolarCity has suffered losses exceeding $1.1 billion during the same span. Analysts surveyed by FactSet are predicting a $416 million loss from Tesla this year while they believe SolarCity will lose $851 million.

Rebecca Lindland, a senior analyst with Kelley Blue Book, said the deal addresses a tiny market for now. About 1 percent of the 17 million cars sold in the U.S. are electric and only 1.4 percent of single family homes have solar power.

Those markets are expected to grow over time, she said, but in the meantime, both businesses are capital intensive and propped up by government incentives. Electric car buyers can currently get a $7,500 federal tax credit, for example, while solar panel buyers can deduct 30 percent of the cost of their installation from their federal taxes.

"If anything happens with incentives or the economy in general, this could come crashing down even faster than others are projecting," Lindland said.

SolarCity has a 45-day "go-shop" period in which it can solicit alternative acquisition proposals. It will have to pay Tesla a $78.2 million termination fee unless it ends the deal with Tesla in order to enter an agreement with a third party that initially made an alternative offer before the "go-shop" period ended. If that happens, SolarCity would pay a $26.1 million termination fee, according to a regulatory filing.

Musk said if someone makes a better offer for SolarCity, he has committed to vote his shares with that offer.


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Aug 04, 2016
This man has already changed the world.

Aug 04, 2016
If we do not transition over to clean fuels, we can expect more of this:

http://www.utilit.../423799/

Aug 04, 2016
What can we do with the terrible waste from old technologies? I like the idea of mining the coal waste and separating out the toxics by element or compound, and using the rare earths and other usable fractions.

But nuke waste is really nasty, and contaminates everything it touches.

And somehow, the wind comes through the wind turbines at Altamont just as clean as when it got there. And the wind cost nothing. And there was no danger of contamination of an entire state.


Aug 04, 2016
Good luck trying to sell stinking Diesel ICEs in a few years. Even with the drop in gas prices, the advantages of electric transportation will overwhelm those based on oil derivatives.

The integration of solar PV and EVs is so natural, it will be standard. Musk knows what he is doing, and it is not purely for profit.

Aug 04, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR liar-kam
Even with the drop in gas prices, the advantages of electric transportation will overwhelm those based on oil derivatives
http://papers.sae.org/972683/

there will always be a market for Diesel engines so long as there is bulk transport cargo or heavy load requirements
(until, and only until there is a replacement that can function to the exact same or higher standards of the Diesel, which there isn't one now)

this isn't likely to happen in my lifetime, and definitely not in yours considering
http://heavy-equi...cles.pdf

(old papers but still relevant)

also note:
claims without evidence can be dismissed as opinion by anyone as it is not substantiated by any factual validation

where is the refute of the above links?
(any link)

none?
no evidence for argument?

then your opinion is noted, but irrelevant and non-factual

Aug 04, 2016
You call me stolen valor because the unit awards we earned did not show on my DD-214, although I did send you to the official site which listed both the "Outstanding Unit Citations with "Combat "V" Device" we earned while I was in the unit. I was one of the founding members of the 553 Reconnaissance Wing, as you can see in the sites.

Now, I want to see where you served, and see YOUR proof you did anything in the military.

You got my proof, where is YOURS?

I think you are the one with STOLEN VALOR.

Where is your proof?

Aug 04, 2016
Musk is a champion at raising money from the taxpayers and gullible investors. In s short few years his losses will make him king, dethroning Enron and Madoff.

Aug 04, 2016
Analysts surveyed by FactSet are predicting a $416 million loss from Tesla this year while they believe SolarCity will lose $851 million.

Don't you hate it when reality defies the propaganda?

Aug 04, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR liar-kam

OT and irrelevant - you have yet to provide evidence that is acceptable to the relevant topic as well as to the posted topic you're trying to hijack the thread with

If you have evidence that is acceptable to the USAF and military you would have been able to have your DD-214 changed and re-issued

as is noted per:
UCMJ ("Title 10 U.S.C., Chapter 45, The Uniform, Department of Defense Instruction
(DoDI) 1334.1, Wearing of the Uniform, and Air Force Policy Directive (AFPD) 36-29, Military Standards"), and AFI 36-2903. AFI 36-28

i've linked this already at least 5 times

the law is the law, unless you think you're somehow privileged and don't require adherence to said law, which, by definition, makes you a criminal

so unless you can adhere to the law as stated/noted above, you're wrong

reported for SPAM/TROLLING per our agreement

better be careful, yet another zeph sock just got banhammered


Aug 04, 2016
The reality is out in my driveway right now. Musk did it and forced the others to do it, too, including VW, who made our e-Golf. Look at how many domestic and foreign manufacturers have opened engineering facilities in California. You are stuck in the past, hoping others will not succeed.

Stay where you are and enjoy those Diesel fumes.

Rumpy, did you serve? Where is your proof?

I think you are the one with STOLEN VALOR. Your accusations against others are to hide the terrible truth that you are a stay-at-home "patriot".

Meanwhile, we have already dodged two oil changes (with filter), because our EV needs no oil. The Tesla PV/EV/Battery combination will give all of us the ability to go off-grid or better yet, take advantage of the grid to exchange power and save capital costs.

Others talked. Musk delivered, and made the others follow.

Aug 04, 2016
Oh BTW, Musk is the largest shareholder of Solar City. There is no conflict of interest there, right?

Aug 04, 2016
By the way, gkam, (if that is your name) electric vehicle sales, as a percentage of all vehicles sold, are down and expected to stay that way for a while. While unfortunate, it is reality.

Every car has its upsides and downsides. Here is one of yours.
http://www.autobl...oftware/

Of course if it does strand you, it's not so bad, because of it's limited range you could just walk the rest of the way home.

So Musk forced VW to make an EV? You are such a fanboi fool.

@RM07 - The Geely Group does currently sell large (Van type) commercial EV vehicles.
http://www.cheats...=viewall Good for a start.

Aug 04, 2016
You're aware that Mercedes, Tesla, and Nikola have all announced they're planning to develop EV semi trucks?
@RM07
yes, i am aware

bulk transport doesn't mean just semi-trucks though, and there is a huge reason we don't have them already (except hybrid Diesel-electric's - note that those still require ICE's for operation)

biggest killers still after all these years: range, weight of batteries, power source and replenishment
EV semis will appear in the next 5 years
for testing, maybe...

personally, i hope we get them as i've always preferred green living, but i am also skeptical as i've lived rural and i know the limitations of EV's over ICE's

i also know that we don't have a viable replacement for Diesel Semi's yet


Aug 04, 2016
@RM07
Diesel trucks burn hundreds of thousands of dollars in gasoline over their lifetimes
no, they use diesel, which is different
it is not the same thing as gasoline, which is far more flammable as it has a lower flame temp and explosive limit

sorry, but i thought that was important to note

Also, regardless of the burning of fuel, diesel is still far more efficient than flying or most other means to date

the advantages of EV are awesome, but only if they can be applied, they can be cheap enough to purchase, and they can replace AND meet or exceed the current technology

you don't want to be in the middle of a desert, say, and have the EV die because the batteries developed a memory from recharging and you thought you have a full charge on your vehicle, especially a truck with perishable goods or temp sensitive cargo

and there is no way the gov't will allow commercial ships to go nuke for cleaner electricity

Aug 04, 2016
@Captain Stumpy, etc. Perhaps a hybrid setup for the largest rigs would be a logical intermediate step rather than try to solve the problems in one fell swoop. Yesseree, a full size Mack truck with a load of steel girders on the bed, and a *Powered By Prius* sticker on the side...

Have a good day.

Aug 04, 2016
There were electric delivery trucks in NYC in the 50s. They will work as a low mileage per day vehicle just as long as the return to their chargers every night.

Aug 04, 2016
I think Elon Musk is showing his brilliance in this plan. Not only does it help SolarCity but it provides Tesla an inexpensive source of energy for their Tesla recharge stations, as well as provide a solar charging system for the home battery storage. Technology-wise it looks like a win win for everyone. Additionally, it helps in efforts to reduce fossil fuel consumption and the the liberation of sequestered CO2 from the combustion of fossil fuels. It's a humanitarian venture as much as it is investment.




Aug 05, 2016
Tesla will solve the semi truck range issue with either battery swaps or even tractor swaps
@RM07
yeah, i watched some vid's on this a while back... looks doable, but should still have a better range
You drive for 5-8 hours
unless things changed recently:
legally you can't drive more than 5 consecutive hours at a time (without a break) and total 11hrs a day, which is why team driving is so popular with companies

there may be some merit to the application of battery/tractor changes, however it will also cost a sh*tload of $$ considering the distribution of batteries/tractors for said swap: it wouldn't be cost effective to have shorter ranges, so it will have to be longer ranges to keep costs down

.

@Estevan57
Mack Prius - ROTFLMFAO

what logo would they use?
the Mack bulldog or this one: http://www.tintoy...ppy.html

LOL

Aug 05, 2016
Okay, but assuming you're talking major trucking companies or fleet co-ops, the costs of the batteries would be insignificant compared to the fuel savings. Swapping out battery modules would be easily automated and take very little time.

Consider how much of the truck is nothing more than engine compartment and how little needs to be large direct drive electric motors, and you could pop up the entire nose of the truck and replace a battery the size of a small car. Just slide it in on rails. Standardize the size and record the charge/discharge history.

Aug 05, 2016
the costs of the batteries would be insignificant compared to the fuel savings
@Lord_jag
not necesarrily
this depends upon the technology used, batteries used and the range of the tractor under battery power as well as weight of the batteries

truck has to move all the weight plus cargo, meaning very powerful motors, so singular batteries wont do it unless HUGE;
it will have to be a larger bank of batteries (using current tech)

if the range is too short, it means more stops with more batteries stored in more places driving costs above using ICE's even with higher fuel costs, depending

this is why i think that, though the tech is awesome and i can't wait to see it, i also don't think it will catch on till the costs are driven down by popular usage which would then mean more resources out there for them to use

Aug 05, 2016
@lord_jag cont'd
then we get to this part
Swapping out battery modules would be easily automated and take very little time
that means purchasing the equipment and making sure there are plenty of locations that have it to replace batteries, etc

this means costs of shipping go up unless there is already an existing infrastructure, hence my comment about popular use

something else no one seems to have mentioned: this also means modifying the infrastructure to current truck stops to enable them to handle the load of swapping (not just the equipment, but also the electrical load of said location)

the Amp service would be modified and that means more peak hours usage for charging (it's inevitable) plus higher energy use overall in the US, meaning more AGW pollution with current tech unless we build more Nuke plants (which then means HAZ-MAT and waste, etc)

so, it's not just about having the truck

Aug 06, 2016
You're aware that Mercedes, Tesla, and Nikola have all announced they're planning to develop EV semi trucks?


Mercedes yeah,,,, Tesla maybe,,,, Nikola probably running a scam. But Mercedes will probably go into the short route transportation market, inter-city deliver and such like.

In fact, it's a far more lucrative market for EVs because up-front cost is less of an issue.
But the EV does not have anywhere near the range for over the road practicality anytime in the foreseeable future.

EV semis will appear in the next 5 years.
Maybe, but only in limited experimental capacity. Over the road use would only follow 15 or more years BEHIND it getting to be common in the short haul, inter-city type uses. Dreaming it up and making it into a "way of life" takes decades, just look at electric cars and solar panes and windmills for the example of "thought to implement" lead times.

Aug 06, 2016
I think Elon Musk is showing his brilliance in this plan.

I hope he does. On the one hand I agree with what you say, On the other hand I fear he might be overextending himself. The investors have stood by him so far (which is a good sign). But that will not last forever.

Aug 06, 2016
On the other hand I fear he might be overextending himself. The investors have stood by him so far (which is a good sign). But that will not last forever
@AA_P
true that... one thing i think he should consider worrying a lot over is the "hyperloop"

huge and long tube holding a vacuum with multi-ton vehicles traveling at super-sonic speeds in a geographically unstable region sounds great for sci-fi but there are phenomenal engineering problems to be overcome... starting with it's length and location and ending with his comment "it generates more energy than it uses"

Aug 06, 2016
We do not have windmills, we have wind turbine generators.

Market penetration takes a long time, because cars last a long time. And we have already discussed the evolution from short-range to longer to long range vehicles. We already know the vast advantages in the lack of maintenance, the cost of operation, and the quiet and quick operation.

Right now, they are perfect for most commutes and daily in-town driving, with their ability for one-foot driving, having the regeneration stages available.

These first ones can save us the money to get the next versions.

Aug 06, 2016
We do not have windmills, we have wind turbine generators.


Windmills is shorter and easier than "wind turbine generators" and has been around a lot longer. It is also a correct word according to all the dictionaries and encyclopediums.

Just like that your airplanes with no wings but has wheels is not a car,,,,. Why would the world let the idiot like you be the final arbitrator of what's a good word to use? You thought a capacitive sensor was a thing to let you know you were about to bump into somebody with your car. We know it was not just not a simple misspeak because you said him at least six times in three different articles.

Now why you don't go give out some more advice to the pot heads on how to grow some pot using solar panes, you MIGHT (only might) know more about that than you do electric cars.

Aug 06, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR chronic liar-kam
wind turbine generators
whereas i laud your attempt to use the technical term for specificity, the technical description of a wind turbine is aerofoil-powered generator

you also haven't considered modern English definitions
see:
http://www.merria...windmill

http://www.dictio...windmill

https://www.brita...windmill

considering the widespread use of Merriam-Webster and encyclopaedia Britannica in all English speaking nations and the malleability of the English language, then it is acceptable to use the word "windmill" to indicate "wind turbine generator" or "aerofoil-powered generator" as it is common usage and common knowledge, as well as defined per the dictionary and encyclopaedia, as well as taught in schools

Aug 06, 2016
You folk can call them what you want. I am telling you what engineers usually call them. Mills grind materials into smaller pieces. These do not.

Maybe in your schools, they do, . . .

Aug 06, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Aug 07, 2016
LBL what is your game? This is semantic nonsense.

Then, it really is a game, played by some kid who gets kicks out of fooling the grownups.

We already have too many anonymous gamers here.

Aug 08, 2016
George kamburoff pretends to know proper nomenclature just like he pretends he is an engineer, that he earned a real MS in environmental mgt, that he won certain awards in nam, that he owns EV and PV, that he wasnt fired from 12++ jobs because he didnt have the education and experience he pretended to have, etcetcetc.

George kamburoff pretends that using his real name means that people will take him seriously.

No george, being honest and not pretending will do this.

Also, stop pretending that we dont know you are incapable of being honest. We know you are incapable of being honest.

Youre a psychopath after all.

Aug 08, 2016
otto, outgrow your need to inflict damage on others. Yes, we understand you are hiding because you cannot face your own words. Anonymous snipers like you are cowards, otto.

Internet snipers are the lowest form of artificial life. But since they cannot make it where one has to take responsibility for their words, they have to HIDE here in anonymity.

Aug 09, 2016
Damage? Consider the legacy you leave here. Anyone can google george kamburoff and end up here. And with just a little effort they will read the lies you posted about your past, your education and experience, the facts you make up, etc.

Its all here for posterity and all readily available to your acquaintances, neighbors, family members, descendants.

They will all know george kamburoff for the lying cheat he has proven himself to be. If they dont already know this.

You post shit and expect people to ignore it.

You have done this to yourself. Again.

And youve gotten very skilled at lying to yourself about whos fault this really is.
Internet snipers are the lowest form of artificial life
People who lie and cheat for fun and profit are the lowest form of life. And Im sure you have heard that before.

Aug 09, 2016
Are you as sloppy as they say? Does your gut really hang down way past your belt?

How about hygiene, . . got any? Shut-ins are famous for being odoriferous.

But it does explain your resentment of those who who have actually done things, doesn't it?

Aug 10, 2016
George kamburoff likes to imagine that the goobers who are nevertheless able to expose his lies and made-up facts are slovenly and misshapen.

So even if they're not as dumb as he is, at least they're ugly.

"this suggests a genetic restriction to what we have called the Juvenile Dictionary. Not only are they using extremely restricted definitions, they cannot, by virtue of the way their brains work, do otherwise. Virtually all of the research on psychopaths reveals an inner world that is banal, sophomoric, and devoid of the color and detail that generally exists in the inner world of normal people."

-Little georgie just pretends he's all growed up.

Aug 10, 2016
Oh, yes, being anonymous means you can say and bleat anything you want with no consequences?

I find it brings out the real character of the poster. otto is a good example. Look at the quality of his posts and their content. Nasty and crude, he hides like a sniper, having no real life of his own.

otto is the price we pay for being free.

Aug 10, 2016
George kamburoff thinks that posting under his real name means he can say and bleat anything he wants with no consequences.

George kamburoff is the price we pay for allowing lying cheating psychopaths free rein on public websites.

But it does give us a rare chance to gain insight into the workings of a psychopath by poking and prodding him, and exposing him daily.

A teaching opportunity. Psychopaths are perhaps the single most pressing problem in the world today and this due no doubt to the fact that we know so little about them.

We've all been damaged by them but few know how they work.

"We are not commonly aware of, nor do we usually identify, the larger number of nonviolent sociopaths among us, people who often are not blatant lawbreakers, and against whom our formal legal system provides little defense."

"...this 4 percent drain our relationships, our bank accounts, our accomplishments, our self-esteem, our very peace on earth."

Aug 10, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR chronic-liar-kam
being anonymous blah blah blah bullsh*t
Technically speaking, posters here (including yourself) are not anonymous, but pseudonymous in that they have or are assigned a new, or virtual, identity to supplant your true one

Unless your drivers license and military documentation state your name/identity as "gkam" then you are also pseudonymous, making you every bit the same "anonymous" you claim others to be here on PO

more to the point: so long as you're not face-to-face or in person, then all posters here or elsewhere have the same "anonymity" protection you claim is only available to otto et al, making you (again) a liar

if you're going to whine about a topic, at least provide some science content, like this: https://people.ds...ity.html

otherwise STFU and get back on topic

or did your school not teach you how to concentrate on topical discourse?
did your literacy problems interfere with learning it?

Aug 10, 2016
"otherwise STFU and get back on topic"
--------------------------

My full name is on almost every thread. By the way, who are you?

You pose as a veteran, but provide no proof. You saw mine. Where's yours?

I think you are lying, which is what you hurl at everybody else. Like otto, you have no character other than that of a anonymous internet sniper, so go "STFU" yourself.

Where's your proof? Prove you are not LYING.

Aug 11, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR chronic liar-kam
My full name is on almost every thread blah blah bullshit blah
OT and irrelevant

do you have anything of actual content to provide that can be validated that is topical?

i specifically answered your posts and also corrected your lack of education issue which prompted your lack of technical specificity and irrelevant OT post and gave links/references to validate the point

i gave this because it was taught in my schools, which seemed important to you, as you stated "Maybe in your schools" etc...

where is your topical content?

per your own posts that means, by definition, you're specifically attempting to troll/spam/derail the thread with what you call anonymous sniping (but actually pseudonymous) protected behind your distance and pseudonymous moniker

considering your lack of content and refusal to actually answer questions posed, that makes you the worst offender by your own definition

reported, per your wishes

Aug 11, 2016
Where is it, Trumpy?

Where is your PROOF?

You attack others with your own lies accusing us of your pathetic cowardly sins. You got mine, now let's see yours!

Are you a coward like Trump, your model? Trump likes to think he "served" by not getting VD. Is that you? Or did you get it, and that is why you are "stumpy"?

Show us your service record, LIAR.

Aug 11, 2016
My full name is on almost every thread
-And you just LOVE that dont you georgie? We're almost the only people left who know who you are or even care. And soon enough no one will remember you at all.

Hows that make you feel old man?

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