Electric vehicle charging infrastructure business models compared

June 29, 2016, Elhuyar Fundazioa
Electric vehicle charging infrastructure business models are compared
Credit: Elhuyar Fundazioa

The Tecnalia and UPV/EHU-University of the Basque Country researchers Carlos Madina, Inmaculada Zamora and Eduardo Zabala have published a paper titled "Methodology for assessing electric vehicle charging infrastructure business models" in the journal Energy Policy. The study explores the advantages of charging at home, en route and in shopping car parks.

Electric vehicles are starting to become a real option among buyers' preferences; demand is growing around the world, although in Spain, they account for only 0.3 percent of the total of cars sold in 2015; in the Netherlands, their market share has risen to 9.6 percent, and in Norway to 23 percent.

With the boom in the electric vehicle looming, companies will be preparing charging infrastructures; the work by Madina, Zamora and Zabala analyses three possible charging points: home charging, infrastructures for fast charging on motorways, and charging at points of interest, such as shopping centres or underground car parks.

The best price

"There is no doubt that the best price will be obtained by plugging in the vehicle at home overnight taking advantage of the night tariffs. Another advantage of private charging is convenience, being able to do so at home and not having to identify yourself, pay separately, etc. apart from the cost that would be less than €1," explained Madina.

By contrast, fast charging would allow the autonomy of the car to be increased within a very short space of time (less than half an hour), which would enable one to do trips longer than the 100-150 km of autonomy that a conventional electric vehicle currently has. "But it is very expensive for the customer and for the owner of the charging point. The fact is that the price the user would pay would depend on the use of the charging infrastructure as most of the operating costs of it are fixed ones. We are talking about approximately €10 to charge a vehicle to do 100 km. At points where the use is high, the price could however be lower than at other less used ones. On the other hand, rapid charging infrastructure could, in principle, be located at existing petrol stations, although it would be necessary to check whether the electrical power grid could handle it to allow at the required power (each charger would need between 50 kW and several hundred kWs, which would be multiplied by the number of chargers at each station). In this case, the natural thing would be for companies such as Repsol to install these chargers. Right now, it is already doing so, for example, through the company Ibil," he explained.

Charging at points of interest such as shopping centres or urban car parks, according to the research, enables the daily range to be increased at lower prices: "For example, if autonomy has been used up when going out to do the shopping or for leisure purposes, the prices are affordable and comparable with the cost per km of a traditional car: About € 5 (would provide autonomy of about 70 km) and in reasonable periods of time: 2 hours, which could be devoted to going to the cinema, to shopping, etc.".

It could be a matter of three or four years, although it is not clear, but the revolution brought by the electric car will be a reality, even among us," according to Madina. "The only thing needed is for the price of to be closer to their equivalent in petrol-driven cars and for their autonomy to be increased to 200-250 km per charge."

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gkam
1.4 / 5 (18) Jun 30, 2016
Parking spaces will have induction coils for cord-free charging, and it will be put on the owner's account.

Look up plugshare and chargepoint for charge stations already in place, complete with number of stations and how many are available, and the cost/kWh. Some are free. I charge at home at a price of 2 1/2 cents/mile.
Lord_jag
3.7 / 5 (6) Jun 30, 2016

which would enable one to do trips longer than the 100-150 km of autonomy that a conventional electric vehicle currently has.

What freakishly designed-to-be-awful electric car has a range of 100 km? Even the cheap garbage in North America have at least 200km to a charge, and they were designed specifically to push the stereotype of slow, short ranged electrics.

Hey why not put a 1 L engine in a pickup truck and then lament on how weak gasoline engines are?
Lord_jag
3.7 / 5 (6) Jun 30, 2016
No, no, better yet. How about if we refuse to put any more than a 5 liter gas tank in any vehicle so that even the most efficient gas chugger only gets 100km range?

But a bigger gas tank will cost more!

Actually put a half-decent battery in your Go-cart or stop calling it a car.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (16) Jun 30, 2016
No go-cart. Ours works and is exactly the right unit for what we do.

Personally, I like the no-maintenance, no-tune-ups, no oil changes, no-filters part. The $1000 we have saved in gasoline in those few months is the cherry on top.
Estevan57
4.5 / 5 (15) Jun 30, 2016
Yes, not being able to drive anywhere certainly cuts down on the gas bill.
antialias_physorg
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 04, 2016
What freakishly designed-to-be-awful electric car has a range of 100 km?

Surprisingly many. And that's the point: They are designed to be failures because the companies that have these in their portfolios make money off of their regular cars. They are not interested in having customers buy an EV. These EVs are just for show and regulatory reasons.

Notice how the one company that is offering a decent range is the only one that isn't also selling gasoline powered cars?
Eikka
3 / 5 (4) Jul 04, 2016
They are designed to be failures


They have to obey the laws of physics and consumer demand. You're just spouting the tired old conspiracy bullshit. It's pretty hard to have a discussion about a subject when half the people live in fantasy lands.

Even the cheap garbage in North America have at least 200km to a charge


None of the cheaper ones do. 100 mi = 160 km and all the affordable models struggle to get 100 km outside of perfect conditions and low speeds.

That's because there isn't enough energy in the batteries to go any further, and the batteries cost too much to put any more batteries in the cars!
antialias_physorg
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 04, 2016
They have to obey the laws of physics and consumer demand.

So how come one company can actually do it? If they are also following those laws* then they shouldn't be able to.

* the law of 'customer demand' is BS, anyways. Most successful businesses create customer demand instead of simply reaccting to it (e.g. Apple )
Eikka
3 / 5 (4) Jul 04, 2016
Notice how the one company that is offering a decent range is the only one that isn't also selling gasoline powered cars?


Which is possible because they're selling the cars up-market to the rich. Nobody else can afford an electric car with a decent battery.

And it's also the only company that's still not making any profit after 13 years.

For the long term survival of the company, Tesla has to produce cheaper cars for the masses, or scale back to being niche luxury toymakers. Problem is, they're trying the former but repeating the Model X fiasco again: in 2013 Elon Musk told the Model 3 would cost $30k, then later they revised the price to be $35k and now he's admitted the average sales price would be $42k - the same as how the Model X crept up from ~$40k promised to $75k.

Meanwhile a 2016 Mazda 3 will cost you $18k

There's just no competition from EVs because they're not cost effective.
Eikka
3 / 5 (4) Jul 04, 2016
So how come one company can actually do it?


They haven't actually "done it", since Tesla has yet to make profit on the cars. It doesn't count if they can't sustain the business.

The point about demand is that
A) consumers don't want weird cars, or gimped cars; four-wheeled-bicycles that would achieve long range and low prices by compromising everything else
B) consumers don't want to pay twice the price for half the range to have a normal car run on electricity

Most successful businesses create customer demand instead of simply reaccting to it (e.g. Apple )


That's bullshit. Apple is a niche company with a 14% market share and caters to a very specific audience, again selling up market to the rich because they can't compete with the rest. Everybody else buys Android.

The problem for a company like Tesla is that it can't create money into consumer pockets to create the demand for a more expensive product, so it has a very limited customer base.
Eikka
3 / 5 (4) Jul 04, 2016
The other problem for a company like Tesla is that they're trying to run before they've learned to walk: selling half a million cars in pre-orders before you've even built the factory to make the batteries for them is a stupid move.

The third and perhaps more important problem for Tesla is that their new battery factory gobbles so much lithium and cobalt that it will strain world supply and that puts the battery prices and production costs up - not down.
Eikka
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 04, 2016
If you think about a regular guy who has to take a loan to buy a new car, the price difference between an EV and a regular car is just too much.

For example, if you only need a car to drive, you can buy
http://www.carand.../corolla
https://www.yourm...y-martin

$18k, 31 mpg, CVT transmission and highest reliability / lowest upkeep costs on the market, estimated to around $5,500 over 10 years. Fuel costs for 100,000 miles at $3 per gallon: $9,700. Total cost of ownership = $33,200. Resale value at 10y: ~$5k, which puts the real cost to around $28k

As compared to a 2016 Nissan Leaf 30kWh which costs $29,860 just to buy
http://www.carand...t-review

or $29,815 for a 2016 e-Golf
http://www.carand...t-review

And the poor can't even afford that. They buy the $5k second hand Toyota
antialias_physorg
4.6 / 5 (9) Jul 04, 2016
Which is possible because they're selling the cars up-market to the rich.

The 200+ mile model 3 is already in the works for 35k. If you include any rebate schemes then that is quite affordable for a new car.
And note how the Model S is already being sold cheaper than the initial price.

Meanwhile a 2016 Mazda 3 will cost you $18k

So? What is that comparion even supposed to mean? Do you know how much you pay for gas over the course of the lifetime of a car? And repairs? (Not to mention any costs for climate change...which you DO pay as a taxpayer)

would achieve long range and low prices by compromising everything else

I want a car that gets me from A to B. That's what a car is for. What 'else' do you need?

consumers don't want to pay twice the price for half the range to have a normal car run on electricity

The model 3 preorders say otherwise.
antialias_physorg
4.5 / 5 (8) Jul 04, 2016
That's bullshit. Apple is a niche company

It is a very successful company that has created a demand where there was none. Like it or not (personally I despise Apple products, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple is making a buck or two)

And even the regular Joe can calculate the cost over the lifetime of a car. If he comes out ahead then what's to stop him for getting the cheaper option?
(If Joe can't then there are sites that give a breakdown of maintenance/fuel cost comparisons)
Eikka
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 04, 2016
So? What is that comparion even supposed to mean? Do you know how much you pay for gas over the course of the lifetime of a car? And repairs?


See above.

(Not to mention any costs for climate change...which you DO pay as a taxpayer)


Which doesn't mean anything in this comparison.

It is a very successful company that has created a demand where there was none.

Are you saying there was no demand for smartphones before Apple came along? Might I remind you that when Apple released the original iPhone, people criticized it for not being a proper smartphone because it didn't have an appstore and couldn't run 3rd party software, and was just a really fancy featurephone.

I want a car that gets me from A to B. That's what a car is for. What 'else' do you need?


To get there safely, reliably, speedily and cheaply. If simply getting from A to B was your point, you could ride a Big Wheel instead.
Eikka
3.3 / 5 (7) Jul 04, 2016
The 200+ mile model 3 is already in the works for 35k. If you include any rebate schemes then that is quite affordable for a new car.


It isn't, and it isn't. The price keeps creeping up as the real manufacturing costs turn out. That has happened with all the previous Tesla models from the Roadster to the X, and it will go the same way here - do not trust Elon Musk.

$35k total cost of ownership over 10 years would be just about affordable on the median US household income because that's about 10% of the income. Problem is, households often need two cars for two working parents.

And note how the Model S is already being sold cheaper than the initial price.


Yet it's still unaffordable below the top 20% earners.
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (6) Jul 04, 2016
The model 3 preorders say otherwise.


You're making a generalization on the basis of ~500,000 people in a market of 340+ million people, not to mention that some of the orders came from abroad.

That's on the scale of one thousandth of the market. Tesla is still a tiny weeny baby company in the business of cars for the masses.
Eikka
3.4 / 5 (5) Jul 04, 2016
$35k total cost of ownership over 10 years would be just about affordable on the median US household income because that's about 10% of the income.


Sorry, that was a typo. The number is $53k and not $35k - the US median household income is about $53,000 a year.

Eikka
3 / 5 (6) Jul 04, 2016
So? What is that comparion even supposed to mean?


Oh, and I almost forgot re. the cheaper car: it's a lot cheaper (and likely) to get a loan for $18k than it is for $28k because you pay it back faster and pay less interest. The up-front cost of financing the car is higher with the EV unless you're rich enough to just plop down a wad of cash and drive away.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (15) Jul 05, 2016
"do not trust Elon Musk."
-------------------------------

Oh,really?

We should trust you, instead?
Uncle Ira
4.4 / 5 (14) Jul 05, 2016
"do not trust Elon Musk."
-------------------------------

Oh,really?


Well you are the one who said he couldn't be trusted. You say on the other article about him that because he is so rich that he takes unfair advantages of the little peoples. Especially when it comes to setting up new factories and building big projects.

We should trust you, instead?


Far as I can tell, he was not trying to sell anything to you or anybody. But maybe he is just being sneaky about it. I don't know. I will tell you one thing though, physorg couyon commenters is the last place I would go to buy something.

Oh yeah, I almost forget. I would buy something from Whydening-Skippy. He has some really nice jewellery on the Amazon place.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (15) Jul 05, 2016
Ira, please go back to Twitter. This is a science site, not one for personal gripes and attacks.

Yeah, I know, that is what you did in High School, but you should have outgrown it by now.

Do you have any experience in electrical infrastructure? In Electric vehicles?

No???
Uncle Ira
4.2 / 5 (15) Jul 05, 2016
Ira, please go back to Twitter.
I never went there to go back to. They don't give enough letter spaces for me. I am really not a slogan sort of guy me.

This is a science site, not one for personal gripes and attacks.
Then why you attack the guy about who he trusts? Sounded kind of personal to me.

Yeah, I know, that is what you did in High School, but you should have outgrown it by now.
You been smoking the pot again Cher? Your non-insults and science-stuffs make it seem like you been hitting pipe early this morning.

Do you have any experience in electrical infrastructure?
As a matter of fact I do.

In Electric vehicles?
Much, much more that you do. Non, my neighbor does not have one like yours does. But I have "experience" with some "REAL" big motors, batteries, generators, drives and such like.

But what that have to do with you contradicting your self about Musk?

No???
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (12) Jul 05, 2016
This is a science site, not one for personal gripes and attacks
Scientists are not usually compulsive liars like george kamburoff. He doesnt belong on any science site because he enjoys making up his own facts.
In Electric vehicles?
Well george kamburoff has experience in Lying about EV. Evidence says he doesnt own one. Evidence says he provided a picture of his neighbors PV roof and claimed it was his.
gkam
1 / 5 (14) Jul 05, 2016
"REAL" big motors, batteries, generators, drives and such like.
------------------------------
Ooooooooooooo, . . like the 1200MW cross-compound turbine-generator Units Six and Seven at Moss Landing?
Uncle Ira
4.7 / 5 (13) Jul 05, 2016
like the 1200MW cross-compound turbine-generator Units Six and Seven at Moss Landing?


Non, not like that. So I suppose this is where you get to tell about yet one more thing you was the senior engineer of. Was the senior chief engineer at the Moss Landing? Or was the senior engineer that designed the machinery? Or maybe you was just the operating engineer?

Anyhoo, whichever one it was, glad to hear you rose to be an expert at yet one more field of specialization that usually takes "REAL" peoples 10 or so years to do.

And just think about it. YOU did in 9 or 8 different fields. Rose right to the top, radio engineer, metal foundry engineer, IC designing engineer, NASA testing engineer, cow-poo gas plant engineer, electrical engineer, environmental engineer and now the stationary plant engineer. Hooyeei, if I weren't such a goober, I would probably think you are lying.

You still never tell me why you send me a picture of your neighbor's roof?
gkam
1 / 5 (13) Jul 05, 2016
Are you too stupid to count panels? My pic shows four panels in the foreground and another twelve on an upstairs roof in the background. There are two more out of sight.

The panels of my neighbors look nothing like that. Get get straightened out. Your silly little ego has warped your perception.

And no, I was a student going through Moss Landing doing a thermodynamic analysis of the plant. The system of recuperators, regenerators and economizers with the reheats was very interesting. After the steam goes through cascading stages of turbines, it goes back through coils in the firebox for another pickup of heat, then back to other stages of the same turbines.

Unit Seven was down for maintenance, and we went into the immense firebox and looked at the amazing supercritical monotube unit.

And yes, I really did work in those fields, even if you did not. Don't fall off the boat. Gators'll get'cha.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (15) Jul 05, 2016
Are you too stupid to count panels? My pic shows four panels in the foreground and another twelve on an upstairs roof in the background. There are two more out of sight.
Nice try Skippy. But glam, you blew when you send me that picture of your neighbor's roof. Forget the solar panes, they can get added or changed anytime.

The TWO roofs are different. The breaks and lines of the roof you send to me a picture are the from the house next door to yours. Don't matter that you neighbor added some panes about the time you was pretending to go solar. You send me a picture of HIS roof.

And yes, I really did work in those fields, even if you did not.
There is a difference between "work in those fields" and being the engineer in all those fields like you lie about.

Don't fall off the boat.
If I do it won't be the first time. But it has been a long time.

Gators'll get'cha.
Gators don't like the Mississippi to good. Not many there to worry about.
gkam
1 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
Electric Vehicle charging and the PV system on our roof have saved us thousands of dollars in the past few months. Yeah, I know, some snipers want to believe we do not have them, because of their emotional reaction to all I say.

But those snipers are not real people, they are internet trolls, too SCARED to let us know who they really are, . . afraid we will tell their families about their character, and what they really do all day.

Blabber on about my house all day, Goober, if it makes you feel better about yourself.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (15) Jul 06, 2016
Electric Vehicle charging and the PV system on our roof have saved us thousands of dollars in the past few months.
You are lying about the electric car and the solar panes.

Blabber on about my house all day, Goober, if it makes you feel better about yourself
Well, if you don't like it, why you send me pictures of your neighbor's roof?
gkam
1 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
Because you are not real. Go to Google Earth and find the set of roofs which match the picture. But even if you found it, you would deny it, like you did with my Master of Science, my thesis, the NASA studies and reports, my military service, and my other achievements.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (15) Jul 06, 2016
Go to Google Earth and find the set of roofs which match the picture
Already did and you know I did that. That is how I find out you send me a picture of your neighbor's roof.

like you did with my Master of Science
You mean the one that don't have "Environment" or "Management" or "Engineer" anywhere on him? Yeah, I also see he does not even have the words "College/School of Arts And Sciences" on him like a regular degree should have. Your proofs are proofs your lies Cher. Call USF your self if you don't believe me. They will tell you right up front on the phone, the "Master of Science" from the "Dept of Professional Studies" is what they give to peoples for "life experiences" and is not a degree for a specialized discipline.

Smoke and mirrors only work on the new-agey hippie blogs Cher. The peoples here are not that. You don't have the electric car. You don't have the solar panes. And you don't have the "Master of Science in Environmental Management".
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.4 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
But those snipers are not real people, they are internet trolls, too SCARED to let us know who they really are
But george, us imaginary goober people are consistently able to expose the real lying, cheating george kamburoff. How does your sick brain account for this?
afraid we will tell their families about their character, and what they really do all day
And now it appears that george is actually confusing himself with his detractors.

Anybody can see the 40-50 posts per day and conclude that THIS is what you do all day.

The people here know the real george kamburoff far better than he knows himself.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.4 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
Non, not like that. So I suppose this is where you get to tell about yet one more thing you was the senior engineer of. Was the senior chief engineer at the Moss Landing? Or was the senior engineer that designed the machinery? Or maybe you was just the operating engineer?
Whichever it was we can conclude with confidence that he quickly lost it like he did the other 12+++ jobs he has described here, probably because he lied in order to get them just like he lies here.

What a loser.
gkam
1 / 5 (14) Jul 06, 2016
" Call USF your self if you don't believe me. They will tell you right up front on the phone, the "Master of Science" from the "Dept of Professional Studies" is what they give to peoples for "life experiences" and is not a degree for a specialized discipline."
----------------------------------

You do it, so you can end this nonsense.

I guess in Looziana they don't have any real universities, only party places. Is that how your wife got her Dee-gree? Huh? Mine is real, and technical, not loosey-goosey Arts stuff.

Now, this thread concerns electrical infrastructure and electric vehicles. I have years of experience in both. What do you have besides the need to "get even" with real folk who have bested you?

Tell us about your EV and how you power it. I want the details.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (15) Jul 06, 2016
" Call USF your self if you don't believe me. They will tell you right up front on the phone, the "Master of Science" from the "Dept of Professional Studies" is what they give to peoples for "life experiences" and is not a degree for a specialized discipline."
----------------------------------

You do it, so you can end this nonsense.
Already done it Cher. How you think I know it?

I have years of experience in both.
The only thing you have proved you got a lot of experience in is trying "boost" your creds with claims of "experience" and lies. And you also prove that all that "experience" in proving and lying has not helped you get good at.

Tell us about your EV and how you power it.
Well Cher, I am sure that you think that is some good smoke and mirrors to try to imply YOU have one. But we both know you do not.

I want the details.
The details is that California DMV don't have a e-Golf registered to YOU or anybody else at YOUR address.
gkam
1 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
Send a note to Mike Massen, who got a pic of the car and the inverter on the house.

But no matter what we send, you will mischaracterize it like you did with the notice of me being Airman of the Month for the Air Force Flight Test Center, working with test pilots and with experimental aircraft. Or deny it, like my solar system and EV. Or denigrate it like my other service in the war. Or the NASA studies and reports. Why didn't you do interesting things? Why did they ask me instead of you to do those things?

Ira, your little game of comments you think are clever got upset by reality. I had experience you challenged. I proved it, and now all you can do is lie about it, not unlike otto.

Just fade away.
gkam
1 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
You did not call USF. But Trumpy did, and confirmed my degree. Let's see one of yours. You claim to be a boatmaster of some kind, but all we see is your big mouth.

Wait until you get the rest of the stories. Your head will explode like a ladyfinger in a 55-gallon barrel.
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (15) Jul 06, 2016
Send a note to Mike Massen, who got a pic of the car and the inverter on the house.
Well we already know how much we can trust the pictures you send out. And Mikey-Skippy is not exactly the most stable Skippy to appeal to.

But no matter what we send,
So far what you send is pretty lame. A picture of your neighbor's roof. A diploma without a subject of study on him and not even the name of the school/section of the college that give him to you (when you call the college, they say that it is the "degree awarded for life experiences, not a degree in a specialty.)

Just fade away.
Well you got to admit that is pretty stupid. Do you really think there is the slightest chance of that?
gkam
1 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
And what have you done?

Who are you to suspect others?

Hmmmm?

I upset your little game here of silly adolescent comments, what you called "The Uncle Ira Show", didn't I? Embarrassed you when you challenged me on my experience and I proved it, weren't you? Got really frustrated and got nastier and nastier, didn't you?

Maybe if you admitted who you are, we could go to your mommy and end your frustration.
Uncle Ira
4.3 / 5 (16) Jul 06, 2016
You did not call USF.
Oh yeah, I did. And it was because of Captain-Skippy saying he did. Only when I did, I was prepared with the right questions. Not about YOU. But general questions.

Why the diploma not have the "field" of science not named on him? Why nothing about a subject? The tell me because that type of diploma is given when a person summits a list of some of the things they do as "life experience" and is not meant to be a degree certifying expertise or knowledge in a field

Well why the diploma not have "College of Arts and Sciences" on him? Because again, the diploma was not in a specific area of study but a general acknowledgement of "life experiences". If it had been in a concentrated subject, it would have "College of Arts and Sciences" on it if it were in science or liberal arts. If was in engineering it have the appropriate "School of XXXXX Engineering" on the diploma.

You just a really bad liar Cher, non two ways about it.
gkam
1 / 5 (15) Jul 06, 2016
"You just a really bad liar Cher,"
------------------------------------------------

It is mirror time, "Ira", or whoever you claim to be. I do not know why you cannot admit what you are doing, but you continue to fail. If it were for my "life experiences" it would be better than a Master of Science. But it is real, and was rigorous.

You cannot accept that your little game of "The Uncle Ira Show" you bragged about seems to be over, and now, all you can do is follow me around trying to get even. Is that a Southern characteristic? Many of you folk still think the Civil War is going, since it is the only thing you ever did of which you could be proud.

Let's get back to EV and electrical infrastructure. Unless you are going to challenge me about being a Senior Energy Services Engineer for Pacific Gas & Electric, too.
Uncle Ira
4.3 / 5 (17) Jul 06, 2016
And what have you done?
What do it matter Cher? You are the one telling the lies.

I upset your little game here of silly adolescent comments, what you called "The Uncle Ira Show", didn't I?
Another lie Cher. I never call it the Uncle Ira Show. That is what Mrs-Ira-Skippette calls it when is making the fun of what I do.

Embarrassed you when you challenged me on my experience and I proved it, weren't you?
Non, Cher if I was embarrassed, I would go away. I am not stupid like you are.

Got really frustrated and got nastier and nastier, didn't you?
That's another lie Cher. I am not frustrated (but you have a habit of calling people what you are.). And I have not got nasty or nastier either. Choot, ol Ira-Skippy is one of the more milder ones on here.

Maybe if you admitted who you are, we could go to your mommy and end your frustration.
I am Ira-Skippy from Port Fourchon in Lafourche Parish in Louisiana. Ma Mare? She would slap you silly.
gkam
1 / 5 (14) Jul 06, 2016
" I never call it the Uncle Ira Show."
----------------------------

Do you think I got that from your wife?

What else do you suspect her of, . . . ?
Uncle Ira
4.3 / 5 (17) Jul 06, 2016
" I never call it the Uncle Ira Show."
----------------------------

Do you think I got that from your wife?

What else do you suspect her of, . . . ?


Non Cher. I realize you are elderly and can't remember stuffs too good. But this is what it is:

It was when you were asking one of those really goofy questions like you always do. You ask what my wife would say if she see what I write to the couyons on the interweb. I tell you Mrs-Ira-Skippette already sees it and smirks at me when she calls it "The-Uncle-Ira-Show-With-His-Couyon-Guests".
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (17) Jul 06, 2016
and confirmed my degree
@STOLEN VALOR liar-kam
for the record:
1- i confirmed you had a degree for life experiences
2- i did not confirmed you met the requirements for a standard MS, including, but limited to the BS STEM degree and required education credits

claiming that i did only proves you are illiterate or intentionally attempting to perpetrate fraud
Unless you are going to challenge me about being a Senior Energy Services Engineer
you may have been senior in age, location or time on the job, or even among the lower staff, but you were not the engineer in charge, as that would require a PE per CA state law

now has anyone been able to get PG&E to validate the claim
They refused to validate it for me, and it wasn't HIPA that stopped them
Their words, not mine, BTW

wanna talk about your stolen valor too?
you ain't mentioned it in at least 24 hours...
that's TWICE in one thread you've intentionally made fraudulent claims

where is my summons?
Uncle Ira
4.3 / 5 (17) Jul 06, 2016
@ Captain-Skippy. Check your email again Cher. This couyon is really sad pathetic, eh?
KaFaraqGatri
Jul 06, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
KaFaraqGatri
Jul 06, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
gkam
1 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
Hey, you have come in late, long after I proved my assertions. I can't send you anything unless you give me your email address. . Stumpy put my performance reports from the service online. Ask him to see them. I can send you to the Batcat Websites, but one has just closed. Look it up, as well as Igloo White. Shall I send you to the place where you can get the catalog of NASA reports with my name on the top of page 41? Look up NASA-TM-19810025595.pdf

Some of my old Power Quality reviews for 7X24Exchange may still be around, check them out.
gkam
1 / 5 (14) Jul 06, 2016
Ask your buddy "Ira" for the copy of my thesis and diploma I sent him, and decide for yourself who is telling the truth. Ask for the front page of the newspaper of the Air Force Flight Test Center I also sent him, and make up your own mind.

You should not be so eager to join a mob of folk emotionally out-of-control.
Uncle Ira
4.7 / 5 (15) Jul 06, 2016
@Ira, do you say "ti-pluche" in Cajun French? Can't imagine why that word came to mind...


Non, not spelled like that. Maybe that is some Paris French slang or something.
BiteMe
Jul 06, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
gkam
1 / 5 (11) Jul 06, 2016
In the US, it means anyone from the Bush Crime Family.
Captain Stumpy
4.5 / 5 (15) Jul 06, 2016
Stumpy put my performance reports from the service online
UNVALIDATED performance reports until i can get feedback from Dept of records, USAF, St, Loius

the only thing i "can" validate, for the record, because of my research, is the following:
your SSN & Service number

your home address, phone number, e-mail addy

your MS in life experience (this is sans BS in STEM field or other requirements for a regular MS per accredited course requirements in CA and the US, as noted by Ira and the college i contacted: see above)

your chronic lying and STOLEN VALOR, as noted by your DD214 and claims of combat V device for service in a SOC unit (see Current AFI's 36-2803, 36-2903, and UCMJ as noted in past posts

your lie about hearing the Scorpion sink "live" - AFRTS, nor the USAF/USA nor SOC/SOCOM have record of this transmission

just sayin'
gkam
1.4 / 5 (11) Jul 06, 2016
Hey, Trumpy, stop it. Have you "reported" me for "Stolen Valor"? I hope so, because then I can face my accuser, not his internet sockpuppet. Or are you scared to do it? I want to face you, Mister Vandal. We'll get you the help you need.

I was an electronics tech in the 553d Recon Wing, as I said, and it later went back to being a small SOG. Look up the 353d SOG. Are you also challenging my performance reports?

Is your mischaracterization on purpose? Like your other nonsense, such me faking my college education? Or is it the product of a damaged ego needing to get even?

I don't care about the records of the AFRTS, I heard what I heard, and you did not. I reported it to Naval Historical Center. If you have other evidence send it to them.

Until then, I strongly suggest you stop demeaning my service.

Show us yours.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (12) Jul 06, 2016
Well, unlike Stumpy I do not have to hide.

Our PV panels and the EV are natural symbiotics, and coupled with storage, even moreso. It is a new business now, and is not really understood by many. Spurred on by PV and EVs and advances in grid automation we are in for a very large transition.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
Have you "reported" me
@STOLEN VALOR liar-kam
1- i've requested your service record (201) to validate the claim

2- you can report stolen valor to various agencies anonymously (so F*ck you! LOL)

3- if you've rec'd money/preferential treatment/jobs etc it's called a felony fraud

4- repeating a LIE doesn't make it more true, nor can it establish delusional or mental behaviour considering you've already established intent

5- where is my SUMMONS to court?
I strongly suggest you stop demeaning my service
you brought it up but can't validate the claim
I've just pointed out that simple FACT
Show us yours
i'm not an idiot like you are

also not going to send a known sociopath my personal info

NOR am i anon, and you can FOI my records (redacted, of course- you aint got the clearances to read all of it. it would "blow your mind". but feel free to send me a request! i'll even sign it, like YOU REFUSED- What are you hiding?)
Uncle Ira
4.4 / 5 (14) Jul 06, 2016
Our PV panels and the EV are natural symbiotics, and coupled with storage, even moreso.


Is the Royal Our? Or the rhetorical "Our" as in "your neighborhood"? Our PV panels are on Our neighbor's roof. And since nobody at Your address owns a Volkswagen e-Golf according to the DMV, I'm thinking that Our EV is really Your neighbor's EV.
gkam
1 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
" I'm thinking "
--------------------

Yes, . . your first mistake. It is the familial "our".

Are you the only one of importance in your household?

The second was assuming I was as phony as you folk who hide behind phony names.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR liar-kam cont'd
unlike Stumpy I do not have to hide
STILL not anonymous
just ask anyone who is semi-competent on the internet
Our PV panels and the EV
STILL no evidence you own them from any secondary sources one can validate
See also; https://www.googl....0803818

updated Google says you're a liar still
coupled with storage, even moreso
you've already stated various times that you don't have batteries in your house for the PV
and that i can quote from various threads

means you're lying again
I don't care about the records of the AFRTS
AFRTS records prove you're lying again

plus-you said you heard it on the radio
DOD and Navy would not broadcast classified missions
no record anyway

therefore it's a lie b/c you can't validate it
gkam
1 / 5 (11) Jul 06, 2016
It is your need to get even which keeps you going at it, and it is silly. What is the date of that photo? I keep telling you goobers we got them this February, not last October.

Even more interesting is your fervor, your need to punish, your overwhelming anger. Did you get downwind of a burn-pit?

"therefore it's a lie b/c you can't validate it"

Yeah, . because that is what you want to believe? I suggest you give up demeaning my service record and professional life.

Did you charge me with Stolen Valor or not? Was it just your BIG MOUTH, like your other stuff, Mister Valor? Tell us who you are so we can check up on you.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (13) Jul 06, 2016
STOLEN VALOR liar-kam
It is your need to get even
nope
it is an pathological dislike of chronic liars and pseudoscience, all of which you represent
your overwhelming anger
i'm not the one getting angry - you are
see above
because that is what you want to believe?
b/c that is what the evidence dictates
you've provided no validation, and there is no indication on your records provided
it is also mandatory to list devices/awards etc on the 214
it's on mine, why not yours?
Did you charge me with Stolen Valor or not?
YOU charged yourself with a fraudulent claim of "combat V" device without it being on your DD214

since you're just getting mouthy and arguing in circles
and you can't actually produce evidence
I am not responding to you again unless you can give verifiable evidence
not "claims", not "i'm real" bullsh*t
evidence

because so far the evidence says:
You're a chronic liar claiming stolen valor
gkam
1 / 5 (11) Jul 06, 2016
I suggest you officially charge me with that or shut up.

You are too SCARED to do it because it is false, and will lead us to you which SCARES you.
Uncle Ira
4.1 / 5 (14) Jul 06, 2016
will lead us to you which SCARES you.


Hooyeei, p'tit homme is getting excited. Now he's got a posse. What you going to do when "us" catches up to him? I would be careful about catching up with, have you seen his picture on the profile page? Somebody look like that I would not mess with if "us" was 10 or 9 pretty mean guys.
gkam
1 / 5 (11) Jul 06, 2016
"YOU charged yourself with a fraudulent claim of "combat V" device"
-----------------------

You idiot, I sent you to the site with the history of our unit, which earned an Outstanding Unit Citation "with combat "V" Device" twice while I was in it. I did not say I earned it myself. Never heard of an OU Citation?

I think you served nowhere, that you got scared and were sent home.

From Basic.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (12) Jul 06, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR liar-kam
I did not say I earned it myself.
asince you can't comprehend basic english, i will answer this and one other comment to allow others the ability to learn about military culture from someone who can validate their claims with evidence

1- according to the UCMJ (UCMJ, 64 Stat. 109, 10 U.S.C. §§ 801–946) and USAF Regs/AFI's, any and all medals, awards, citations, training, education or specialty badges must be annotated in the personnel records (including the final DD214) in order to be worn or claimed
2- failure to demonstrate proof of award by personnel record is punishable by misdemeanor or felony courts martial or litigation through various means depending on seriousness of claim and financial or other gain by promotion of said stolen valor
3- just because you leave the military doesn't mean you can't be recalled back to face charges, depending on the needs of the military (read your service contract)

to Be cont'd
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (12) Jul 06, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR liar-kam cont'd
I suggest you officially charge me with that or shut up
again, read the law or UCMJ. i can only report the offense, i cannot officially charge you or begin an investigation

i can, however, keep feeding them your public comments because you have no "right to privacy" when you post on PO, nor is it free speech to make a felonious claim
You are too SCARED to do it because it is false
false claims are punishable under the UCMJ and Law by up to $10,000 and 10 years in prison for each offense

it is not a false claim to provide evidence that is freely given by the offending party of their own volition

considering you've not met even the most basic requirements to claim "combat V" per the UCMJ and AFI's, this means, by law, you've not only committed stolen valor, but potentially FRAUD as well as filing a false claim your own self

so where is my summons?

you promised to sue me so i sent you my address
i'm still waiting

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