German minister says 'never again' to nuclear power

Jan 04, 2013
Nuclear waste at a storage facility in Lubmin near Greifswald, Germany, on July 25, 2011. German Environment Minister Peter Altmaier says his country will never again return to nuclear energy.

German Environment Minister Peter Altmaier said Friday his country would never again return to nuclear energy, hitting back at a top EU official who doubted Berlin's commitment to phase out nuclear power.

"I cannot see any plausible political line-up that would enable a revival of nuclear power in Germany," Altmaier told Friday's edition of the Leipziger Volkszeitung regional daily.

After the 2011 Fukushima disaster in Japan, Germany embarked on an ambitious "", deciding to phase out its by the end of 2022 and bolster renewable sources of energy such as solar and wind power.

However, concerns have mounted that this would entail a sharp rise in amid difficulties in building a network able to transmit energy from the North Sea coast to the energy-hungry south of the country.

The European Union's Energy Commissioner, Guenther Oettinger, told Monday's edition of the Rheinische Post regional daily that there would "still be nuclear power on the German network in 40 years."

He said there were still 140 in Europe and that technology was progressing rapidly. "Maybe this technology will one day be accepted in Germany," said Oettinger, himself German.

Altmaier also vowed to find a permanent national storage site for nuclear waste by 2030. "We are together looking country-wide," he said, adding that the search would be accelerated in the coming years.

The search would be "co-financed and jointly carried out" by Germany's nuclear energy companies, he said.

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User comments : 16

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hb_
2.7 / 5 (11) Jan 04, 2013
Well, the german hysteria is well known, so it IS unlikely that Germany will build new nuclear power stations on german soil any time soon. Of course, their "Energiewende" will cause them to import nuclear energy from other countries whenever the wind is not blowing in germany.

But hey, when the highest priority is to pander to ignorance and hysteria, then it does not matter that you don't achieve your official goals....
antialias_physorg
3.6 / 5 (10) Jan 04, 2013
We're in an european energy grid. Energy is sold and bought accross borders all the time. France has a lot of nuclear power (though they are net energy importers). Germany has by now very little nuclear power (but we're net energy exporters).

Yes, at times nuclear energy is bought to even out the load demands (just as at times alternative enrgy is sold to neighbors to even out their load demands)

That nuclear energy will be on the grid for 40 years to come means just that: There will be nuclear powerplants somewhere in Europe in 40 years and that they will be connected to the grid. That is the choice of the respective country - and they'll have to deal with all the problems that arise from it.

I'm certainly glad we're changing over. Less dependence on fuel imports (yes: uranium is also a fuel). Better for the environment and quality of life. If that costs a few cent more per kWh then so be it. I take increased quality of life over a few Euros any day.
PPihkala
1.5 / 5 (8) Jan 04, 2013
When this minister is talking about nuclear, he probably means current nuclear fission, but unfortunately he also dismisses possible future fusion and LENR sources. So in theory they are disallowing Andrea Rossi's E-CAT that is nuclear based but not polluting like current fission tech.
antialias_physorg
3.4 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2013
You might want to read the article first. It says quite plainly:

"He said there were still 140 nuclear power stations in Europe and that nuclear fusion technology was progressing rapidly."

That he doesn't comment on LENR is OK - because that has as much science to back it up as unicorn farts.
(Whether fusion will be economically viable is also not quite out yet)
AlwaysRight
3 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2013
"France has a lot of nuclear power (though they are net energy importers). Germany has by now very little nuclear power (but we're net energy exporters)."

By energy, I'm assuming you are referring to electricity as oppose to energy sources (coal, natural gas, etc). The import and export of electricity is more nuanced than you imply, with France and Germany importing or exporting electricity depending on the season. Germans relying on natural gas heating in the winter versus France relying on electric heating, this affects electrical consumption. As for net electricity imports, according to EIA statistics, the French net exports were -56.413 billion kW for the year of 2011 versus the German -3.764 billion kW. Once the 2012 statistics come out, there will be a better idea of how the German's decision to eliminate nuclear power affects their imports. I'm also interested to see their CO2 emissions.
Stats available ...eia.gov/cfapps/ipdbproject/IEDIndex3.cfm?tid=2&pid=2&aid=12
antialias_physorg
3.7 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2013
By energy, I'm assuming you are referring to electricity

You're right - my bad.

Not a big problem, though, since neither nuclear nor (almost) all forms of alternative energy (with the exception of biogas/biofuel) are exclusively used fo electricity production.

According to this:
http://www.verivo...928.aspx
CO2 emissons have dropped in 2011 (even though 8 nuclear reactors have been offline since August). On the one hand we have had a mild winter thus far, on the other hand the economy has been doing well with a record low in unemployment rates (which usually means more energy usage). Compared to 1990 CO2 emissons have dropped by more than 26%.

It certainly looks like germany will be able to meet its Kyoto obligations even without nuclear.
frajo
1 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2013
The European Union's Energy Commissioner, Guenther Oettinger, told Monday's edition of the Rheinische Post regional daily that there would "still be nuclear power on the German network in 40 years."

Don't take this person's words for granted. He's always been an embarrassing individual, comparable - on a smaller scale - to G. W. Bush. Some of his "achievements" are described in http://en.wikiped...ettinger , some more in the German Wikipedia article. ("It's a pity there will be no war anymore." Original: "Das Blöde ist, es kommt kein Krieg mehr.")
antialias_physorg
4 / 5 (1) Jan 04, 2013
Yah. One thing you have to know about the EU parliament: it has very little real influence. They mainly do committee work and formulate non-binding resolutions (and you can probably guess how much impact THOSE have on the national affairs of the EU nations)

It's been long standing practice to offload politicians onto the EU parliament as a sinecure. Particularly politicians that have been getting embarassing but which you can't yet pension because of some popularity with a tiny fraction of the population or the fact that they're not yet old enough.
Öttinger is one of those (conservative hardliner and all-too-obvious crony to big business).

Offering such politicians to serve on the EU parliament is an effective way to neutralize them. They can't do any more damage but they also can't refuse (and can't really return once they're there).
Lurker2358
1.3 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2013
That he doesn't comment on LENR is OK - because that has as much science to back it up as unicorn farts.


Let's educate you A_P:

http://futureinno...ons.html

===

"Therefore, the LENR situation and outlook is the following:

Something real is happening.
The weak interaction theories suggest what the physics might be.
There are efforts ongoing to explore the validity of the theories.
There are continuing Edisonian efforts to produce "devices" mainly for heat or in some cases transmutations.
There are efforts to "certify" such devices.
NASA LaRC has begun LENR design studies guided by the Weak Interaction Theory"
Lurker2358
1.8 / 5 (5) Jan 04, 2013
These are some very, very powerful unicorn farts, if I may say so!

"There are estimates using just the performance of some of the devices under study that 1% of the nickel mined on the planet each year could produce the world's energy requirements at the order of 25% the cost of coal."

Never say never.

You believe in negative absolute temperature post, but you have a hard time believing in cold fusion?

Sad.

Unicorn farts of multiple flavors will power the future.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (3) Jan 04, 2013
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2013
There are efforts ongoing to explore the validity of the theories.

These efforts have been ongoing forever.

I can understand your excitement. As I said: I was excited, too when reports on this stuff appeared on the scene more than a decade ago. But the 'news' and the 'exciting developments' have been the same: year after year. And nothing ever came of it. No demonstrator. Spurious claims. Requests for money for demonstrations/measurements...

(and NASA was investigating this stuff, too, back when Pons and Fleischmann made their results public - so that's no real news, either)

People who just rehash the same stories, go to the press first and ask for money to show what they have are usually just perpetrating a hoax. And Rossi certainly knows how to do that (you may notice that he was convicted for fraud already once)
Lurker2358
3 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2013
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-energy-source.html


BS.

Unless someone had like mercury poisoning, cancer, or radiation sickness as a direct consequence of coal or nuclear, or a labor accident, you can't attribute their deaths to those technologies.

Why?

Because human average life span has nearly DOUBLED since coal power and the steam engine and the industrial revolution.

Can you say some is safer than others? Sure.

But you can't say they "caused" deaths in the sense that it is being presented, because if none of these technologies existed everybody would die a lot faster on average anyway, because everyone would work themselves to death in wheat and cotton fields, or some other labor task.
ValeriaT
1 / 5 (4) Jan 04, 2013
in theory they are disallowing Andrea Rossi's E-CAT that is nuclear based
The progress in science isn't defined with enterprisers like Andrea Rossi who don't publish anything from good reason - but with scientific studies published in scientific journals - well and these studies are well positive regarding cold fusion effects and they're carried out at serious research bases and universities. I'm just fascinated, how low the science is getting trusted, when it gets about confirmation of scientific findings. I'm sure, German Environment Minister Peter Altmaier knows about it as well.
irjsiq
1 / 5 (3) Jan 06, 2013
Lurker2358,

"There are estimates using just the performance of some of the devices under study that 1% of the nickel mined on the planet each year could produce the world's energy requirements at the order of 25% the cost of coal."

Never say never.

You believe in negative absolute temperature post, but you have a hard time believing in cold fusion?

Sad.

Where can I 'get/retrieve' more information about '1% of Nickel, could provide the world's energy requirements at 25% the cost of coal'

Roy J Stewart,
Phoenix AZ
agree: "Never say Never"

djr
5 / 5 (1) Jan 06, 2013
PPihkala: "So in theory they are disallowing Andrea Rossi's E-CAT that is nuclear based but not polluting like current fission tech."

This is the wrong way to look at it. They are allowing only proven energy producing systems - which makes sense to me. There are dozens of free energy programs out there - including Steorn, Black Light Power, Rossi etc. Surely it is rational to decide to only build power plants that are of proven efficacy. Now if you have a few million what evers that you would like to give to Rossi as an investment - I am sure he would love to take your money. You may want to do a bit of reading about how he was going to set up a factory in Florida - until the feds asked to see what he was up to (makes sense to regulate nuclear processes right (can you say Chernobyl) - at which point he changed his story - said it was not a nuclear process, and then left town. Hey - it is your money.

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