Green New Deal's focus on renewable energy could fight global warming, create healthier communities, says expert

Green New Deal’s focus on renewable energy could fight global warming, create healthier communities, says expert
Jennie Stephens. Credit: Adam Glanzman/Northeastern University

The Green New Deal, a proposal taken up by scores of members of Congress this month, aims to use "clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources" to provide 100 percent of the power used in the U.S.

Not only would a transition to renewable drastically slow the pace of global warming, it could also be the catalyst for the creation of millions of jobs, the equitable distribution of power, and the creation of healthier communities that are better suited to bounce back from disaster, says Jennie Stephens, a professor of sustainability science and policy at Northeastern University.

"By changing the energy system in a deliberate, intentional way, there are opportunities for changing all these other social injustices that are so prevalent," says Stephens, who is director of the School of Public Policy and Urban Affairs as well as director for strategic research collaborations at the Global Resilience Institute.

Stephens acknowledges that wholesale global transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy would be disruptive for a while: uprooting jobs, requiring large initial investments in infrastructure and technology, restructuring energy grids, and changing how we use energy.

She says that government investment and innovative energy policies could help create a financial framework for such massive change.

"It's widely accepted that the costs of investing in renewable energy are high," Stephens says, "but we also have to consider that the cost of not investing could be higher."

Think about your daily routine and everything that requires energy within it: Your alarm clock (or your phone) is plugged into the wall. The lights in the bathroom require electricity. The stove where you cook your breakfast. The car or train you take to work. Heat in the winter. Air conditioning in the summer. The elevator in your building. The coffee pot. Your computer.

Considering how much we rely upon energy, Stephens says, changing the energy system could change lots of other parts of our lives.

Stephen's article on energy democracy was recently published in the international scientific journal Environment: Science and Policy for Sustainable Development. She'll be speaking about the ways renewable energy sources can change societies at a at Northeastern on Friday. Several other climate scientists and artists will lead discussions and presentations, as well.

"Energy is such an essential part of society that when we think about changing our , we see that we can change some other fundamental dynamics in our society," she says.

Stephens argues that the world's reliance on fossil fuels for energy has concentrated economic and political power to a handful of countries rich in oil and a handful of companies that mine and sell it.

"This concentration of wealth and power has increased inequities and vulnerabilities and weakened societal resilience," she says.

Her argument is that this dynamic has created a "predatory relationship" between fossil fuel providers and the people who are reliant upon them to light and heat their houses, or to run transportation systems, for example.

Because fossil fuels are also finite, countries have to compete for limited resources, a competition that also favors the wealthier, more powerful countries.

Renewable energy—which relies on the sun, wind, water, or geothermal heat—poses neither of these challenges, Stephens says.

Unlike , which are found only in certain parts of the world, everyone everywhere has access to some mix of that, when harnessed, could fully power communities and enable them to be self-sufficient, she says.

Communities on the coastlines might rely upon tidal or wave energy, whereas rural communities might rely upon wind or geothermal energy.

"This would look different in every community in the world; doesn't mean just solar panels everywhere," Stephens says.


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Feb 22, 2019
Green New Deal has nothing to do with protecting environment or reducing emissions. It has more to do with a crazy socialism agenda, a way of stealing taxpayers' money to please a bunch of psychotics/paranoids/schizophrenics brainwashed/commanded by green sociopaths with vested interests.
Wind and solar (bird-choppers/landscape-destroyers), with the current ~1000GW of installed-capacity globally at cost of trillions of dollars and huge ecological impacts, have proven to be a grotesque fiasco in the fight against Climate Change with almost nothing to show in terms of reducing emissions.

"The ones that went with nuclear and hydro decarbonized. The ones that went with wind and solar failed and keep failing."
"While nuclear and hydro are strongly correlated with decarbonization of energy at aggregated national levels, solar and wind are not."
http://pbs.twimg....1tl_.jpg
http://poetandeng...do-this/
http://electricitymap.org

Feb 22, 2019
^^^^ Bore off.

Feb 22, 2019
This crazy program would bankrupt our government and send us into another great depression that would make the depression in the 30's look like a picnic almost over night. AOC is a moron with absolutely no concept of economics.

Feb 22, 2019
cash for clunkers meets solyndra meets the california high speed train . that's what laziness and corrupt self dealing about planning and research and investment gets you. not progress but waste. diggging holes in the ground has a massive opportunity cost, except for the idiots who support it and the profiteers who secretly benefit from it.

massive vague and amglamated spending programs get you. try specific small and multitargetted. not this old and corrupt 'new deal' . you're only fooling 18-26 year overgrown children with no capacity for critical thought.

Feb 22, 2019
Takes bong hit: "YEAH it'd'll be awesome, we all just need to stop flying airplanes and we will all live happy lives and the earth will be clean"

I can't believe any intelligent human would even remark on something so unrealistic that would get laughed at by 12 year olds.

Feb 22, 2019
This crazy program would bankrupt our government and send us into another great depression that would make the depression in the 30's look like a picnic almost over night. AOC is a moron with absolutely no concept of economics.


How so, jimmygee? Please be so kind as to detail just how this proposed transition to renewables would bankrupt de gubmint and send us all into a cataclysmic UltraDepression.

It's all fine and dandy to make these sweeping, ideologically-driven sort of cllaims, but another thing entirely to support them, especially for someone with such obviously limited reasoning capacity.

Now get to work.


Feb 22, 2019
Please be so kind as to detail just how this proposed transition to renewables would bankrupt de gubmint and send us all into a cataclysmic UltraDepression.

If you understood economics, you wouldn't ask this question. But just for you...

Though the government has run deficits for years, it can't dramatically increase that debt because there are only so many people and countries willing to finance that debt in the expectation of being paid back. And welshing on your debts, especially ones as big as the U.S. government has generated, would cause global financial chaos that would far exceed what happened in the 2008 recession.

Even if the GND was technically feasible, it would require massive, unprecedented financing by the U.S. government, on top of the debts it already has. For technology that doesn't exist like grid-scale electricity storage and a gargantuan high speed rail network to replace airplanes (lmao!).

Liberal ideas are great until you have to pay for them.

Feb 22, 2019
insanity is spreading

Feb 23, 2019
...Liberal ideas are great until you have to pay for them...
"Socialism always works in the beginning, so people are fooled... in the beginning. It's easy for governments to confiscate money, but eventually there's no more money to confiscate."
https://pbs.twimg...a8Xh.jpg
"Churchill: Socialism may begin with the best of intentions, but it always ends with the Gestapo."
"Socialism = short term gain (for the unproductive) and long term pain for all."
Green New Deal: "Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about!"
https://mir-s3-cd...abe1.jpg

Socialism/Intermittent renewables (parasites) cannot survive without a host (capitalism / fossil-fueled grid).
Intermittent renewables cannot survive without fossil-fueled grid and subsidies/tax incentives.
Socialism cannot survive without Capitalism.
Both are parasites and cannot survive without a host.

Feb 23, 2019
The old political bullshit comes out on this kind of article. Is America socialist? We have Social Security, and Medicare. Bush made the mistake of trying to mess with Social Security - right? So is a mixed economy - 'socialist?' Should we have no government? Is there an example a country that is a pure 'free market' country? So it is really all about degrees - right? Considering that Germany is a good example of a country adopting a "Green New Deal." - some would argue that it has served them well. They do have a very robust economy - and are on track to 100% renewables. https://www.renew...rks.html

Feb 23, 2019
"It has more to do with a crazy socialism agenda" - WillieWard

If you are not with us, then you are the enemy of mankind and nature, and worthy only of public execution.

I have lots of rope, and there are many empty tree limbs and lamp posts available.


Feb 23, 2019
Every dime of America's $22 trillion dollar debt has been created by purposeful Republican fiscal mismanagement.

Every last dime.

"If you understood economics, you wouldn't ask this question" - aksdad

The Republican goal is to bankrupt the country so that the nation's assets will need to be sold off to corporations, and thereby transform America into a corporate kleptocracy.

Feb 23, 2019
Liar.. Liar... Pants on fire...

"we all just need to stop flying airplanes" - ripederson

Well that is one of the Republican talking points to oppose the plan.

But like all Republican talking points, it is nothing but a lie, lie, lie.

Feb 23, 2019
V4
The Republican goal is to bankrupt the country
I struggle with trying to understand what the Republican goal really is. It does seem they want to bankrupt the country - and certainly seem intent on bringing the government to it's financial knees - shrink it down to almost nothing and ending social programs. But have they really thought this one through? What will all those out of work government employees do? What about all the people on social security - and other government programs. Let all retired/disabled folks who are dependent on SS, Medicare, etc. die? Are they really ready for the blood in the streets that would surely cause? I am not sure they really know what they want.

Feb 23, 2019
FLOATING Solar Panels should be manufactured such that 1)they would never get onto the beaches 2) They will keep Floating Forever, self-cleaning without collecting any organisms over them 3)Hurricanes etc., should not cause any damage to them. Next step is for all nations to keep filling up(I certainly do not mean the entire oceans/Forget it) the oceans. Oceans are Very Expansive. As they float near their seashores, either they or the nation that invested in it should be the owners for that Energy. We cannot lose the Solar Energy a bit even anymore !

Feb 24, 2019
LOL I see that many here have the idea that Socialism is the wave of the future in the US, and that all those who are opposed to Socialism will have to be censured and, if necessary, destroyed. The rich will exit the country in droves, of course, and who will be left behind? Probably those who have no desire to work - or can't work - and those who are working and whose salaries will be taxed heavily to pay for the Socialist lifestyle that will be embraced by many Americans - at first. And when they see what Socialism is really like - they will cry and moan and bitch about how they are being put upon by high taxes and are unable to save for their old age. Well, there won't BE any old age with Socialist elites in power. Those who can't or refuse to pay high taxes will be eliminated. The USSR all over again. Welcome to Communist USA.

Isn't that right, green onions?

Feb 24, 2019
Isn't that right, green onions?
Stupid question SEU. What is socialism? Is the U.S. a socialist country? Don't you think that it is actually a question of degree? Did you notice that the Republicans have had 2 years - where they controlled all 3 branches of government. Yet in that 2 year period the deficit has gone from $585 billion - to $779 billion. The federal debt increased by $1.25 trillion. https://www.usgov...art.html
So who are the socialists?

It is childish fools like you SEU who throw around meaningless insults - and then congratulate yourselves - because you think you actually made a point.

Feb 24, 2019
Going all renewable would be financially costly in the short run BUT more than financially pay for itself in the long run.
AREADY some renewables (especially onshore wind power, apparently) are generally MUCH cheaper than fossil fuel power (specifically for generating electricity) in most parts of the world. And off-the-grid energy-storage technology (including batteries but also OTHER kinds) is becoming cheaper and better all the time + there is the feasible possibility of the supergrid; all this obviously mitigates the intermittency issue of renewables to a perfectly acceptable level.
So, even if you completely ignore pollution and global warming, as long as you agree that what happens to humanity in the long run matters, it would be STUPID to reject renewables in general. And yet there are such stupid people, WillieWard here being a particular good example of such a moron.

Feb 24, 2019
https://cleantech...heapest/

"...Solar and wind energy are beating dirty fossil fuels and nuclear power in the marketplace. They are winning not because they are clean and necessary to combat carbon pollution, but because they are less expensive for power producers, companies, and customers.

...Cost is no longer the biggest challenge to greater adoption of wind and solar; it is now the rules of the power markets that often keep the cheapest options from winning.
...
As evidence of how renewables are cheaper, take for example, Northern Indiana Public Service Co. Indiana is the nation's third-largest consumer of coal, after Texas and Illinois, and NIPSCO got nearly all of its electricity from coal-fired plants as recently as 2010. It's now planning to shut down two of its three coal plants by 2028 and replace them with renewables...."

Feb 24, 2019
https://www.green....ebGrRzM
"... Why PV Costs Have Fallen So Far—and Will Fall Further
...
the top factors contributing to PV cost reduction are not static over time.
...
Wood Mackenzie forecasts that spot prices for modules could fall from $0.30 per watt-DC to $0.18 per watt-DC in the next five years, a 40 percent drop.
...
cell manufacturing equipment is becoming increasingly efficient, reducing power consumption. "All of the material inputs to making a solar panel are still falling,"
...
"..solar is [already] cost-competitive with natural gas and coal in most geographies in the United States. We've already reached that threshold."
..."

... No carbon tax nor subsidies required.

Feb 24, 2019
https://www.indep...231.html
"... the price of offshore wind energy has dropped by half in less than two years. By the 2020s, it will be as cheap or cheaper than any other form of power generation. It's just become much cheaper than nuclear, even taking into account the additional costs associated with the wind's intermittency. And in any case, this is less of an issue at sea where the winds are more constant..."

... No carbon tax nor subsidies required.

As for the intermittency issue of renewables; that can be solved with a suppergrid and/or cheap off-the-grid energy storage by using either flow-batteries or magnesium-sulfur batteries; no rare metals or toxic substances required and 100% recyclable.

Feb 24, 2019
Real Green Deal would be strictly limited to supporting renewable and nuclear energy, energy storage and electric vehicles. You know, the stuff that actually matters. Green New Deal does not even mention nuclear and is full of unrelated political talking points that alienate many people. This shows where real priorities of those who proposed it lie, and it is not with fighting climate change.

Feb 24, 2019
This shows where real priorities of those who proposed it lie, and it is not with fighting climate change.
ShotmanMaslo

You may or may not be right about that, I don't know. But, even if you are right, at the very worst that may just mean they may be proposing to do the right thing for all the wrong reasons (Just curious; exactly what "wrong reasons" did you have in mind?). But why care about their (possibly questionable) motivation if it STILL is the RIGHT thing to do?
I know MY personal motivation for going all renewable even if I don't know theirs, and my motivation, put as simply as possible, is for the greater long term good of humanity.

Feb 24, 2019
...Considering that Germany is a good example of a country adopting a "Green New Deal."...
...They do have a very robust economy...
Germans have robust economy thanks to cheap coal and not thanks to expensive sunshine&breeze unicorn energy.
"Germany has one of the strongest economies in the world – but it's not because of Angela Merkel"
https://www.indep...406.html

"The Only Green New Deals That Have Ever Worked Were Done With Nuclear, Not Renewables" - Feb 8, 2019
https://www.forbe...ewables/
"Had California and Germany spent on nuclear what they instead spent on renewables, both places would already have 100% clean power." One of the architects of the previous 'Green New Deal' on why it failed -

Feb 24, 2019
If you are not with us, then you are the enemy of mankind and nature, and worthy only of public execution.

I have lots of rope, and there are many empty tree limbs and lamp posts available.
Green sociopaths are destroying the environment with their ecologically hypocritical energy solutions(bird-choppers/landscape-destroyers backed by coal/oil/gas/fracking to compensate intermittencies), as well economies, and now want to kill everyone who debunk their lies, so welcome to paradisaical socialist countries: Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela.
"Churchill: Socialism may begin with the best of intentions, but it always ends with the Gestapo."
"Socialism = short term gain (for the unproductive) and long term pain for all."

Feb 24, 2019
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Feb 24, 2019
Germans have robust economy thanks to cheap coal
And their transition to renewable energy is in full swing - and they still have a robust economy. Kind of shows up your stupid lie about renewables being 'decorative facade' - doesn't it.
And then Willie uses a Forbes article - that is based on an analysis by 'Environmental Progress' - that was founded by Shellenberger -
As one of the world's leading pro-nuclear environmentalists, Michael is considered a "climate guru," and "high priest" of the atomic humanist movement
Talk about basing your lies on propaganda.

Feb 24, 2019
The green new fraud, perpetrated by the Jussie party.

Feb 24, 2019
...And their transition to renewable energy is in full swing...
You mean "transition" to gas.
"In REAL life, 100% renewables = 80% natural gas & 20% renewables. No wonder natural gas is the fastest growing fuel worldwide."
"I believe we would be well advised to admit that if we phase out coal and nuclear energy then we have to be honest and tell people that we'll need more natural gas," - Angela Merkel
https://euobserve...y/144021
https://pbs.twimg...EVSd.jpg
http://pbs.twimg....lC-E.jpg

"France spends nearly half as much for electricity that produces 10 times fewer carbon emissions than Germany. The reason is nuclear power Germany will have spent $580B on renewables by 2025 only to see higher prices & no significant change in emissions"
https://www.bnnbl...~1617309

Feb 24, 2019
The new anthem of the Jussie party;
https://dcdave.he...nsanity/

Feb 24, 2019
When a windmill converts wind energy into electricity, it is taking some of the ability to do work away from the moving air. But the wind does many important things. It distributes seed, it moves topsoil, it moderates temperatures over large areas. Already, even Phys Org verified that regions downwind of windmill farms are warmer than they should be. It's suggested that tornado swarms my be worse, as well.
With their huge expanses of shiny, reflective surfaces, solar farms prevent clouds from forming, superheat dust in the air above the ground, and create huge disparities between the temperature of the air and the ground. Phys Org itself said that solar farms are having effects on weather like city "heat islands".
"Alternative energy" damages the environment more than "fossil fuels". Green New Deal sounds like an attempt at forced consumption by the Democratic Rackets, who evidently are heavily invested in it.

Feb 24, 2019
Please be so kind as to detail just how this proposed transition to renewables would bankrupt de gubmint and send us all into a cataclysmic UltraDepression.

Debt piled on debt surely has a consequence;
https://www.zeroh...ight-now

Feb 24, 2019
Debt piled on debt surely has a consequence
the Republicans have controlled all branches of gvt for the past 2 years - done nothing on building a wall - but run the deficit and national debt up significantly (despite Trumps big promises) https://www.youtu..._eI6xdF0
Start watching at 4:44

Feb 24, 2019
"Alternative energy" damages the environment more than "fossil fuels".
The so-called "Alternative energy" is not alternative to coal/oil/gas/fracking, it's just "greenwashing"/'decorative facade' for fossil fuels to face their true rival: carbon-free nuclear.
"Intermittent sources like all wind and all solar need firm backup to 100% of their capacity. So, if you have to build the firm backup anyway, what do you need wind and solar for? Nothing."

It is cheaper and more ecologically friendly to build a coal/gas-fired power plant, because a wind/solar farm(bird-chopper/landscape-destroyer) will require anyway a coal/gas-fired backup plant to compensate intermittencies. Wind/solar aren't alternative to fossil fuels.
https://pbs.twimg...1fTH.jpg
https://pbs.twimg...lfnY.jpg

Feb 24, 2019
This crazy program would bankrupt our government and send us into another great depression that would make the depression in the 30's look like a picnic almost over night. AOC is a moron with absolutely no concept of economics.


How so, jimmygee? Please be so kind as to detail just how this proposed transition to renewables would bankrupt de gubmint and send us all into a cataclysmic UltraDepression.

It's all fine and dandy to make these sweeping, ideologically-driven sort of cllaims, but another thing entirely to support them, especially for someone with such obviously limited reasoning capacity.

Now get to work.


Silence?

What a surprise.

Feb 24, 2019
Please be so kind as to detail just how this proposed transition to renewables would bankrupt de gubmint and send us all into a cataclysmic UltraDepression.

If you understood economics, you wouldn't ask this question. But just for you...

Though the government has run deficits for years, it can't dramatically increase that debt because there are only so many people and countries willing to finance that debt in the expectation of being paid back. And welshing on your debts, especially ones as big as the U.S. government has generated, would cause global financial chaos that would far exceed what happened in the 2008 recession.


Deficit spending by the US isn't gonna stop. But a new economic engine, GND, will put massive numbers of people to work while creating new "retail" value, all of which is taxable. All of which can be used to service the debt and the deficit, while we hopefully dodge the worst aspects of AGW and Ecocide.
contd


Feb 24, 2019
contd

If you understood economics, you would know that it is time to divest from your fossil fuel and neoliberal corporate investments so that you won't have to continue going to such ridiculous, lying lengths to try to defend an economy that is killing all of us.

For technology that doesn't exist like grid-scale electricity storage


You mean like the one being deployed even as we speak --and which has been reported upon right here on Physorg?

and a gargantuan high speed rail network to replace airplanes (lmao!).


Even though this absurd bit of fiction has already been very publicly refuted, you wanna trot it out here?

Both lying AND stoopid.

Way to go, sackbag.

Liberal ideas are great until you have to pay for them.

Feb 24, 2019
insanity is spreading


Thanks for the update on your mental health, snout.

We'll bear it in mind when considering future verbal assaults issuing from your Mom's basement.

Feb 24, 2019

Intermittent renewables cannot survive


Of course they can, and will. Stop trying to prevent the Tide of History, weeweewod. Renewables will INEVITABLY replace fossil. The only question will be if it will be done in time.

I sure hope so, because the prospect of having to dine upon your greasy, corrupt flesh in order to survive is particularly unappealing.

...without fossil-fueled grid subsidies/tax incentives.


Nice of you to point out the obvious hypocrisy of your sociopoliticaleconomic "paradigm", weewee. Honesty was the last thing I looked to from you.

Socialism cannot survive without Capitalism.


That's questionable. What isn't is that Capitalism cannot survive without a Civilization --or an inhabitable planet-- to support it.

And don't think that you are being let off the hook for purposefully misrepresenting Socialism, either, weewee.
Both are parasites and cannot survive without a host.

Feb 24, 2019
LOL I see that many here have the idea that Socialism is the wave of the future in the US, and that all those who are opposed to Socialism will have to be censured and, if necessary, destroyed.


Tired of Red-baiting yet, smeggo?

"Goosebumps" are scarier. By far.

Oh, by the way --when's the last time you read a book (rhetoricallly speaking, of course) or saw a film featuring the return of cannibalism as a means to survive the massive famine following the collapse of civilization?

Scarier still.

Still, I suppose that even as the last breath rattles from your dismembered body as it is devoured by the starveling survivors of the collapsed neoliberal, libertarian, freimarket, fascist, Rape Capitalist "civilization" we enjoy at present, you would rather it so than that it be replaced by a Socialist, Renewable economic polity that would have rendered your demise unecessary, however much we may have hoped for it.

contd


Feb 24, 2019
The rich will exit the country in droves, of course, and who will be left behind?


And give up those posh digs in Aspen, Palm Springs, West Palm Beach, The Hamptons, and Manhattan? Are you out of your mind?

Preposterous!!

The rich will still be rich, because they will still be deriving their wealth from the labor of the Already Taxed underclasses, who will continue to work under any regime just as they do the present one, because that is the only way for them to earn the money to buy their daily bread.

For a bootlicker of wealth, the only tragedy is that they might not be expected to pay FOR EVERYTHING under a socialist system, unlike the one in which the currently exist.

contd


Feb 24, 2019
Probably those who have no desire to work


Wow. smeggo, didn't expect you to so clearly define the Problem Class ie, the wealthy Trust(or other) Fund dependent, boardsitters, investors, etc. And Rape Capitalists, of course. Although in fairness they might be described as "working" at least part of the time.

- or can't work -


Surely you wouldn't begrudge those in this condition a little help, smeggo? (rhetorical)

contd


Feb 24, 2019
and those who are working and whose salaries will be taxed heavily to pay for the Socialist lifestyle that will be embraced by many Americans - at first. And when they see what Socialism is really like - they will cry and moan and bitch about how they are being put upon by high taxes and are unable to save for their old age. Well, there won't BE any old age with Socialist elites in power. Those who can't or refuse to pay high taxes will be eliminated. The USSR all over again. Welcome to Communist USA.


Wow, smeggo-- I could actually feel your increasing breathlessness as you described the easy embrace of that old Red Devil, Socialism, as it increasingly turns against those embracing it and betrays them all along the way to finally revealing itself to we horrified citizens as the actual Armageddon of THE RED DAWN in Murika.

What a steaming pile of rusty bible belt fantasy. And told almost as if you actually believed it.

contd

Feb 24, 2019
A few facts for ya:

Socialism relies upon PROGRESSIVE taxation. Kinda like the Fifties and Sixties right here in your dear old US of A.

Until the Neoliberals got hold of it.

Those crying about the high taxes are those same neoliberals who think that wealth is their natural- nay, their birth-right, if not a god-given one. Or all three.

However, with great wealth comes even greater responsibility, as we all know that great wealth only comes at great cost --which was almost entirely externalised so that others are made to bear that cost, whether they be human, non-human, or planetary. These are the consequences with which we are presently grappling, and which a socialist GND will go some way towards mitigating.

Lastly, under a socialist system, people don't have to worry about retirement, because it is already funded by taxpayers themselves, much as it is under our own system of Social Security here in the US.

Death Panels. Seriously?


Feb 24, 2019
Real Green Deal would be strictly limited to supporting renewable and nuclear energy, energy storage and electric vehicles. You know, the stuff that actually matters. Green New Deal does not even mention nuclear and is full of unrelated political talking points that alienate many people. This shows where real priorities of those who proposed it lie, and it is not with fighting climate change.


This statement, really, only goes to show where your priorities lie, shopmos.

The causes and effects of AGW are complex, interrellated and generate their own feedback mechanisms, among them runaway Feral Capitalism, highly unequal wealth and well being, and highly unequal access to, among other things, education and healthcare,and, in consequence much greater exposure to the effects of AGW and planetary environmental degradation for all but a few.

None of these ills will be mitigated by a few plutocrats and their nukes.

Much less their wannabe apologists.

contd

Feb 24, 2019
contd

If you want to make a case for nuclear, then stick to fusion. Fission is still a no go because of its well-known difficulties dealing with waste products, both pre- and post-reactor.

Otherwise, it is inconceivable that a fully employed(as in infrastructure build-out), better educated, healthier populace with money to spend in and on a healthier planet could be seen as a negative effect of the GND, unless, of course, you are a neolib rape capitalist or wannabe.

But I suppose that's just you all over, eh, shopmos?

Feb 24, 2019
Please be so kind as to detail just how this proposed transition to renewables would bankrupt de gubmint and send us all into a cataclysmic UltraDepression.

Debt piled on debt surely has a consequence;
https://www.zeroh...ight-now


And here's cundribble with the deficit report.

Why didn't we hear your deficit hawk roar when the tax code got "reformed" last year, to the tune of 1.6 Trillion USD per annum in lost general revenue? Or when the DoD was swollen to three quarters of a Trillion USD last year?

Not even a squeak.

Really -could you make your allegiance any plainer?

Another wannabe hoist upon their own petard.

None of that ultra-wealth is going to trickle down to you, and, in the end --just like your Saint Ayn-- you will have to resort to benefit programs like Social Security and Medicare to extend your useless existence into the ferocious times to come.

contd

Feb 24, 2019
contd

Unless, that is, some catastrophic double-layer planetary plasma discharge fries you first.

One can always hope, yes?

Feb 24, 2019

"Alternative energy" damages the environment more than "fossil fuels". Green New Deal sounds like an attempt at forced consumption by the Democratic Rackets, who evidently are heavily invested in it.


Ah, julie, julie, julie.

Thanks for the completely oversimplified, decoupled from cost factors, cherry-picked, facile, and wholly partisan "analysis".

If you ignore ALL of the costs, causes and effects of fossil fuel use, then you are right --it's pretty neat to have around. But only if. The SCALE of those costs, causes and effects, simply put, DWARFS the negative impacts of renewables.

Which, once again, begs the question --even if it is only a rhetorical one-- what agenda are you trying to cover up?

Who IS that man behind the curtain?

We'll have that GND.

And so will you, even it's kicking and screaming all the way.

Feb 24, 2019
The good thing about AOC and the Green New Deal is the fact that it shows how unrealistic the whole movement is. NONE of the movement is based on financial reality! Just hopes and dreams and unicorn wishes.

Feb 24, 2019
And here's cundribble with the deficit report.

Why didn't we hear your deficit hawk roar when the tax code got "reformed" last year, to the tune of 1.6 Trillion USD per annum in lost general revenue? Or when the DoD was swollen to three quarters of a Trillion USD last year?

Not even a squeak.

Really -could you make your allegiance any plainer?

Nearly every politician answers to a master, selfishness, greed, fear, and almost never their constituents. Trump, Obama, Clinton, Bushs, doesn't matter. The current downfall has been going on for over 100-years, starting with the 16th and 17th Amendments and the creation of the Federal Reserve system. The result of this Granddaddy of All Ponzi Schemes is inevitable. The Jussie green new scam and AOC communism will only accelerate and exasperate the situation.

Feb 24, 2019
Ahhh, so did you do too much acid there @Caliban? Like wow, man. The green new deal is just about doing the right thing. It's about having some consideration for the great good over selfish motives. I think it's a damn good idea, good legislation and support it. You should too. It's green after all.

Feb 25, 2019
Ahhh, so did you do too much acid there @Caliban? Like wow, man. The green new deal is just about doing the right thing. It's about having some consideration for the great good over selfish motives. I think it's a damn good idea, good legislation and support it. You should too. It's green after all.


Couldn't agree more, hh3. Not sure where you got the contrary idea, but --no matter.

Feb 25, 2019

Nearly every politician answers to a master, selfishness, greed, fear, and almost never their constituents. Trump, Obama, Clinton, Bushs, doesn't matter. The current downfall has been going on for over 100-years, starting with the 16th and 17th Amendments and the creation of the Federal Reserve system. The result of this Granddaddy of All Ponzi Schemes is inevitable. The Jussie green new scam and AOC communism will only accelerate and exasperate the situation.


Wrong again cundribble. It's only about redirecting resources that are already there, and which increasingly over the past 40 to 50 years the administrations, legislatures, and, more recently, judiciaries have been diverting to the "one percenters".

They've gotten fat enough.

Deficit spending was never a cat. Nor was it ever in a bag, any more than a nominal reserve banking system.

Feb 25, 2019
Caliban 70% of federal government spending goes towards entitlements like welfare, SS and Medicare. Add to that state and local pensions and there is not really that much money left to be repurposed.

Feb 25, 2019
Also, printing money to pay for these new proposed social initiatives is a direct tax on the middle class since it directly reduces the value of their savings in the form of inflation. The 1% have their money in investments that are more immune to inflation.

Feb 25, 2019
In related news 2030;

"El Presidente For Life Ocasius Cortezius Alexandria the Great announced today that although her recent Green New Deal Five Year Plan has resulted in the deaths of another few hundred million peasant deplorables, the losses are unfortunate but acceptable.

"Well I promised to do something and I did. Quit whining."

Indeed, no cows left to fart.

Feb 25, 2019
missy666 misses reality. That "welfare, SS and Medicare"? How much of that is hiding the subsidizing the costs of the USA being a militarist empire?

Veteran's benefits, costs of VA services, Public Health services (you know, like trying to prevent epidemics) benefits to widows & orphans & permanently disabled adults.

How much of that "welfare" goes to serving Military families because of predatory lenders & slumlords?

How much of that Social Security was earned by people who worked their butts off all their lives? & have nothing to show for it but you making excuses for the criminals who embezzled pension funds,
Other upper-crust robbing their own bank of the deposits from us :Little People". Or, the other silk-suit gangsters incompetently gambling public funds at the Wall Street Casino.

missy666, you are a coward! Viciously attacking the defenseless victims of predatory capitalism.
Fully displaying your complete lack of moral character & honor!

Feb 25, 2019
...Renewables will INEVITABLY replace fossil...
Intermittent renewables can't replace fossil fuels even in small-scale, worse yet in large-scale. Solar and wind are useless placebos, they only exist to provide a 'decorative facade' for coal/oil/gas/fracking companies to face their true rival: carbon-free nuclear.

Solar(thermal) and Wind(windmills and sails) were INEVITABLY replaced by steam engines centuries ago.

Green sociopaths are creative in promoting:
- old technologies as they were new;
- land-intensive bird-choppers/landscape-destroyers as they were Eco-friendly;
- dirty toxic solar/wind manufacturing processes as they were clean;
- expensive energy as it were cheap.
https://pbs.twimg...Hh0c.jpg
https://pbs.twimg...HW70.jpg
https://pbs.twimg...K6_v.jpg
https://pbs.twimg...sAlG.jpg

Feb 25, 2019
oh my gosh otto. you lucky little boy. you have a new woman in your life to victimize with slander & misogynist hatemongering,

damn, your toilet training must have been a nightmare for your mother!

Feb 25, 2019
RR I am just stating facts. My comment in no way was a judgment on the validity of these entitlements.

Feb 25, 2019
This article is a very sad commentary on the people who teach at our universities. You could educate them for another 20 years and they would still be too ignorant to teach.

Feb 25, 2019
wee willie, that you conveniently, deliberately obfuscate is how primitive the technology for windmills was a century ago,

Many such local & private power sources were replaced by regional power-grids built at Public expense.

The great hydro-power dams, as would be the first Nuclear power plants, were high-priority National projects to serve National interests,

Since you, as so many others have never worked comparable projects? Hah! Never worked on anything more exhausting than a video-game controller! No wonder you are an apologist for predatory capitalism,

While you ignore the Human costs of such undertakings. Your contempt is despicable, as you brush away America's history& the hard-working men & women who sacrificed their lives for the Public weal.

Your sanctimonious, politically correct, ideologically pure propaganda spews out of your mouths.

Fake libertarians & false conservatives! Pimping for a centralized fascist police state of forced conformity,

Feb 25, 2019
yes, missy666, I'm sure you have a nice concentration camp in mind to "re-educate" everyone who fails tp grovel before your masters.

Or, just ask your fuehrer putin to lend you his gulag.

Feb 25, 2019
RR at this point in time every KWH of wind and solar needs to be backed up by a KWH of idling gas plant capacity. Thus the CO2 savings are minimal in comparison to the grid disruption they create. Battery backup is nice for instantaneous fluctuations but a serious battery backup system would need to store at least a weeks worth of grid power in order to provide the needed buffer. Perhaps a flow battery or grid power to liquid fuel system would work in the future.

In short, renewables are not ready for more than say 20% share of our 24/7 power needs.

Feb 25, 2019
"yes, missy666, I'm sure you have a nice concentration camp in mind to "re-educate" everyone who fails tp grovel before your masters."

Ah I see RR, your opinions are the only valid ones that exist. As the source of the only pure truth you must feel very superior.

Feb 25, 2019
...Renewables will INEVITABLY replace fossil...
Face the reality! Let's take a look at EnergieWende, a blatant renewable fiasco / green insanity:
"Germany will rely heavily on neighboring nations in Europe to avert blackouts..." because intermittent renewables are useless placebos at replacing simultaneously coal and gas.
"Merkel's Government Looks Abroad to Keep Germany's Lights On" - Fev 22, 2019
"Germany is shutting plants that generate half its electricity"
"Germany will rely heavily on neighboring nations in Europe to avert blackouts as it weans itself off coal over the next two decades, a senior government official said."
"Europe's biggest consumer of electricity is working to shut power plants fueled by both coal and nuclear energy that account for half of the nation's generation capacity."
https://www.bloom...ights-on


Feb 25, 2019
"Europe's biggest consumer of electricity is working to shut power plants fueled by both coal and nuclear energy that account for half of the nation's generation capacity."

The only logical explanation for the West's behavior is an agreement among the puppet masters to crash the system and form a One World Government that they control. Why else would the West cede its economic advantage to Russia and China?

Feb 25, 2019
Over you missy? I am like an eagle flying over a disease-ridden eat.

Feb 25, 2019
RR if by that last post you are saying that you have a bird brain, I totally agree.

Feb 25, 2019
Bird Brain, small, efficient, computer fast reflexes,
a hundred million + years of evolution still going strong, skilled survivors of several catastrophe events,

Compared to the sloppy mess of Mammal brains.
Of which looneytoons missy666 pretends to be as intelligent as every other Simian.


Mar 01, 2019
"The question is not whether we need nuclear or not. The question is whether we need wind and solar, and the answer has always been no, we don't need them, and we certainly don't need wind and solar lobbyists insisting that we exclude the only energy source we DO actually need!"
"Why Renewables Can't Save the Planet" - Feb 27, 2019
https://quillette...-planet/
"The problem with nuclear is that it is unpopular, a victim of a 50 year-long concerted effort by fossil fuel, renewable energy, anti-nuclear weapons campaigners, and misanthropic environmentalists to ban the technology"

"Renewables have been a source of tension in California deserts for years, with solar & wind projects fought over harm to wildlife, such as birds sliced apart by wind turbine blades, or desert tortoises losing habitat to sprawling fields of solar panels." - Feb 27, 2019
https://www.latim...ory.html

Mar 01, 2019
well wee willie, you have made it clear that ypu crave a centralized fascist police state dominated by the likes of thorium ponyboy & the atomic priesthood.

Blathering about your fake patriotism because you can parrot a few politically correct slogans.

While you agitprop on behalf of pimp putin's fascist axis. Your actions define you as a quisling & a copperhead.

Your infantile rant against independent, entrepreneurial enterprises that produce autonomous energy sources out from under the plutocracy you worship.

Mar 02, 2019
" 'Real Socialism' has never been tried in the same way that 'Real Capitalism' has never been tried."
"The difference is 'almost Socialism' resulted in the impoverishment & death of hundreds of millions of people."
"While 'Almost Capitalism' has lifted billions from absolute poverty."
http://twitter.co...39116544

Wind and solar have been tried in large-scale at cost of trillions of dollars, massacre of millions of birds/bats and other endangered species, devastation of natural landscapes and wildlife habitats, with almost nothing to show in terms of reducing emissions and dependence on coal/oil/gas/fracking.

Socialism, as well Intermittent Renewables, are the Evil travestied in "Good Intentions".
Both are parasites.

...independent, entrepreneurial enterprises that produce autonomous energy sources...
There is no law prohibiting independent people to go 100% renewables, except the laws of physics, thermodynamics and economics.

Mar 02, 2019
The question is not whether we need nuclear or not
Why do YOU get to define THE question? Surely the question we are all facing - is what is the best way to replace the generating system we currently have - with one that will not drive us extinct? We have choices. We could go 100% nukes - or 100% wind and solar - or a mix. There are many factors involved in making that decision. Technical factors, and of course costs will be part of that decision. The reason countries like UK are shutting down their plans for nukes, and choosing renewables - is cost. http://theconvers...r-110253

But hey Willie - go ahead and build us a nuclear power plant - and show us all the costs. Better yet - look at Hinkley Point - 12.5 cents Kwh - inflation adjusted up - for 35 years. Yeah that beats wind and solar!!!!!

Mar 03, 2019
If you have wind and solar, you need coal/gas-fired backup plants running all time to compensate intermittencies because batteries are prohibitively expensive and dirty toxic.
If you have hydro and carbon-free nuclear, you don't need expensive 'decorative facades' for coal/oil/gas/fracking.
"Wind and solar require backup generating plants, usually natural gas plants."
"If you have nuclear, why piss around with wind & solar? Variable cost of fuel in a nuclear plant is small."

... choosing renewables...
The only reason to choose intermittent renewables is to keep the expansion of the coal and fracked gas industries over carbon-free nuclear power, a crime in the face of Climate Change.

"Worldwide, coal consumption for electricity generation is almost growing at the same rate as the electricity consumption (2.8%p.a. versus 3% p.a. between 2000 & 2017). As a result, the share of coal in the power mix has almost remained steady for the past 20 years around 40%"

Mar 03, 2019
If you have wind and solar, you need coal/gas-fired backup plants running all time
No you don't - liar liar. Costa Rica is doing just fine. Don't bother with your 'but they have hydro' bullshit - we know they have hydro - and Iceland (and many other parts of the world) has geothermal - and some places have tidal, and of course there is storage, and grid interconnects - etc. etc. etc. The transition is happening Willie - less nukes, more renewables - so sad you can't read for yourself.

Mar 05, 2019
...Costa Rica is doing just fine...
Costa Rica: 5 millions of inhabitants, powered 90% by hydro/geothermal.
"Costa Rica has few people, warm climate, little industry, and is powered mostly by hydro."
https://pbs.twimg...1tl_.jpg

... grid interconnects...
"'Renewable investment boom tipped to slow' because the bankers suddenly discovered you need a massively expanded transmission network. If only this was forseeable ..."
https://www.smh.c...8te.html
"If you think renewables are cheap, read this. You need massive grid uprades & new transmission to make it work. The Germans still need 5900kms of transmission. Germany already has the highest electricity costs in Europe. What an expensive mess."
https://reuters.c...8N1SD09B
"Do we need smart grids because we make stupid decisions?"
https://pbs.twimg...RiCK.jpg

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