Magnetic fields may be the key to black hole activity

Magnetic fields may be the key to black hole activity
Artist’s conception of the core of Cygnus A, including the dusty donut-shaped surroundings, called a torus, and jets launching from its center. Magnetic fields are illustrated trapping the dust in the torus. These magnetic fields could be helping power the black hole hidden in the galaxy’s core by confining the dust in the torus and keeping it close enough to be gobbled up by the hungry black hole. Credit: NASA/SOFIA/Lynette Cook

Collimated jets provide astronomers with some of the most powerful evidence that a supermassive black hole lurks in the heart of most galaxies. Some of these black holes appear to be active, gobbling up material from their surroundings and launching jets at ultra-high speeds, while others are quiescent, even dormant. Why are some black holes feasting and others starving? Recent observations from the Stratospheric Observatory for Infrared Astronomy, or SOFIA, are shedding light on this question.

SOFIA data indicate that magnetic fields are trapping and confining dust near the center of the active galaxy, Cygnus A, and feeding material onto the supermassive black hole at its center.

The , which attempts to explain the different properties of active galaxies, states that the core is surrounded by a donut-shaped dust cloud, called a torus. How this obscuring structure is created and sustained has never been clear, but these new results from SOFIA indicate that magnetic fields may be responsible for keeping the dust close enough to be devoured by the hungry black hole. In fact, one of the fundamental differences between active galaxies like Cygnus A and their less active cousins, like our own Milky Way, may be the presence or absence of a around the black hole.

Although celestial magnetic fields are notoriously difficult to observe, astronomers have used polarized light—optical light from scattering and radio light from accelerating electrons—to study magnetic fields in galaxies. But optical wavelengths are too short and the radio wavelengths are too long to observe the torus directly. The infrared wavelengths observed by SOFIA are just right, allowing scientists, for the first time, to target and isolate the dusty torus.

Magnetic fields may be the key to black hole activity
Two images of Cygnus A layered over each other to show the galaxy’s jets glowing with radio radiation (shown in red). Quiescent galaxies, like our own Milky Way, do not have jets like this, which may be related to magnetic fields. The yellow image shows background stars and the center of the galaxy shrouded in dust when observed with visible light. The area SOFIA observed is inside the small red dot in the center. Credit: Optical Image: NASA/STSiC Radio Image: NSF/NRAO/AUI/VLA

SOFIA's new instrument, the High-resolution Airborne Wideband Camera-plus (HAWC+), is especially sensitive to the infrared emission from aligned dust grains. This has proven to be a powerful technique to study magnetic fields and test a fundamental prediction of the unified model: the role of the dusty torus in the active-galaxy phenomena.

"It's always exciting to discover something completely new," noted Enrique Lopez-Rodriguez, a scientist at the SOFIA Science Center, and the lead author on the report of this new discovery. "These observations from HAWC+ are unique. They show us how infrared polarization can contribute to the study of galaxies."

Recent observations of the heart of Cygnus A made with HAWC+ show infrared radiation dominated by a well-aligned dusty structure. Combining these results with archival data from the Herschel Space Observatory, the Hubble Space Telescope and the Gran Telescopio Canarias, the research team found that this powerful active galaxy, with its iconic large-scale jets, is able to confine the obscuring torus that feeds the supermassive black hole using a strong .

The results of this study were published in the July 10th issue of The Astrophysical Journal Letters.

Cygnus A is in the perfect location to learn about the role magnetic fields play in confining the dusty torus and channeling material onto the supermassive black hole because it is the closest and most powerful active galaxy. More observations of different types of galaxies are necessary to get the full picture of how magnetic fields affect the evolution of the environment surrounding . If, for example, HAWC+ reveals highly polarized from the centers of active galaxies but not from quiescent , it would support the idea that magnetic fields regulate black hole feeding and reinforce astronomers' confidence in the unified model of .


Explore further

Black holes play hide-and-seek in low-luminosity radio galaxies

More information: Enrique Lopez-Rodriguez et al. The Highly Polarized Dusty Emission Core of Cygnus A, The Astrophysical Journal (2018). DOI: 10.3847/2041-8213/aacff5
Provided by NASA
Citation: Magnetic fields may be the key to black hole activity (2018, October 17) retrieved 20 September 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2018-10-magnetic-fields-key-black-hole.html
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Oct 17, 2018
"This has proven to be a powerful technique to study magnetic fields and test a fundamental prediction of the unified model: the role of the dusty torus in the active-galaxy phenomena."

But what is the composition of this dust within the "dusty torus"? There is no speculation as to what this dust is. I'm presuming this dust is trapped onto the magnetic field lines caused by the movement of electrons similar to Birkeland currents.

Oct 17, 2018
The black hole is a disc, and the magnetic moments of the material comprising the event horizon all point back to the singularity. When all field lines converge to the singularity there's only one direction for them to go, and that's out.

Oct 17, 2018
So a black hole is either a permanent magnet, or an electric current creates the magnetic field.

Oct 17, 2018
So a black hole is either a permanent magnet, or an electric current creates the magnetic field.


The explanation can always be that electrons are infalling gravitationally and that produces the magnetic field observed, which then structures whatever plasma is around the AGN. Not sure how you would falsify that claim without in situ measurements.

Oct 17, 2018
The explanation can always be that electrons are infalling gravitationally

Yet it doesn't describe neutron and pulsar star jets...

Oct 17, 2018
The explanation can always be that electrons are infalling gravitationally

Yet it doesn't describe neutron and pulsar star jets...


Sure it can. The neutral part of the neutron star would be at the core which would be surrounded by layers of plasma. It's this rotating plasma that would generate the magnetic field via typical dynamo theory I suppose.

Oct 17, 2018
This spin-jet BH spin-axis spinning ex-pulsar

This BH is taking mass through its equator where the mass is piling in up inside its light radius where the excess mass takes the path of least resistance where it is squeezes out its spin-axis, as an ex-pulsar it is rotating at milli-second pulsar speeds, so it is a dynamic process, mass spinning in centrally with excess spun out each spin-axis where now this ejected mass by virtue of relativistic rotational electric fields in motion creates magnetic fields which spiral up to 1000 times a second out the BHs polar spin axis capable of pushing anything in its path out the way, which concerning electrons spiralling is Bremsstrahlung radiation to start the radiation possibilities in this spin-jet BH spin-axis spinning ex-pulsar

Oct 17, 2018
A Torus of dust surrounding an alleged Black Hole at Cygnus A that is held together by hair-like filaments and a Magnetic Field - (Electromagnetic Field?)
And the Torus is responsible for keeping the Black Hole well fed, too?

"...the role magnetic fields play in confining the dusty torus and channeling material onto the supermassive black hole because it is the closest and most powerful active galaxy. "


"Recent observations of the heart of Cygnus A made with HAWC+ show infrared radiation dominated by a well-aligned dusty structure. Combining these results with archival data from the(**) the research team found that this powerful active galaxy, with its iconic large-scale jets, is able to confine the obscuring torus that feeds the supermassive black hole using a strong magnetic field."


Oct 17, 2018
Strange, isn't it - how the usual suspects haven't showed up for THIS article?

"It's always exciting to discover something completely new," noted Enrique Lopez-Rodriguez, a scientist at the SOFIA Science Center, and the lead author on the report.

Did you hear that, jonesdave??

Oct 17, 2018
"This has proven to be a powerful technique to study magnetic fields and test a fundamental prediction of the unified model: the role of the dusty torus in the active-galaxy phenomena."

But what is the composition of this dust within the "dusty torus"? There is no speculation as to what this dust is. I'm presuming this dust is trapped onto the magnetic field lines caused by the movement of electrons similar to Birkeland currents.
says Benni

I'm just guessing right now - but I tend to think that these are all "surplus" dust that had not accreted to any particular body, and are free-floating - thus unable to resist its attraction to the torus, and will be held captive within it until such time as it is fed to the BH. Almost like being vacuumed up by a voracious vacuum cleaner. As to its composition, it may be positive charged. I think that they will come to determine that also.

Totally fascinating, it is.

Oct 18, 2018
There is no BH. Only a plasmoid, or series of them, which once a threshold is reached naturally form jets. Oh, and the entraining magnetic fields all fed by intergalactic Birkeland currents. Real physics, real objects, no faerie dust or physics defying maths gymnastics required!

Oct 18, 2018
BTW, where are the Darkists? There is a curious silence...

Oct 18, 2018
BTW, where are the Darkists? There is a curious silence...
Can't speak for other members of The Dark Team, but this one's waiting it out - just curious to see what you all have to say while comparing dick sizes...

Oct 18, 2018
BTW, where are the Darkists? There is a curious silence...
Can't speak for other members of The Dark Team, but this one's waiting it out - just curious to see what you all have to say while comparing dick sizes...
.........yours or stumpy's?

Oct 18, 2018
" the role of the dusty torus in the active-galaxy phenomena."

But what is the composition of this dust within the "dusty torus"? There is no speculation as to what this dust is. I'm presuming this dust is trapped onto the magnetic field lines caused by the movement of electrons similar to Birkeland currents.


.... I tend to think that these are all "surplus" dust that had not accreted to any particular body, and are free-floating - thus unable to resist its attraction to the torus, and will be held captive within it until such time as it is fed to the BH. Almost like being vacuumed up by a voracious vacuum cleaner. As to its composition, it may be positive charged. I think that they will come to determine that also.


I lean towards thinking the "dust" is ionized material riding the lines of the magnetic field within the galactic dipole. Odd to see this doughnut shaped torus if there is a supposedly single point of gravitational attraction.

Oct 18, 2018
There is no BH. Only a plasmoid, or series of them, which once a threshold is reached naturally form jets. Oh, and the entraining magnetic fields all fed by intergalactic Birkeland currents. Real physics, real objects, no faerie dust or physics defying maths gymnastics required!


Lol. What an idiot. Show us the maths for how a plasmoid affects the orbits of stars, as seen in Sgr A*. Fool.

Oct 18, 2018
Odd to see this doughnut shaped torus if there is a supposedly single point of gravitational attraction.


Because the jets might just cause the dust to disappear where they are shooting out of the axis of rotation? Leaving the dust in an equatorial torus? Just a thought.


Oct 18, 2018
What an idiot. Show us the maths for how a plasmoid affects the orbits of stars, as seen in Sgr A*.

Already explained, the stars are tracing out orbits experienced by charged masses in a strong magnetic field. It is not a falsification.
On the other hand, how does the standard guesswork explain the formation of said stars in the strong gravitational field of the supposed BH? Oh right, there isn't a legitimate proposed mechanism to explain it, the extreme "tidal" forces can't reconcile it! LOL!

Oct 18, 2018
Or is it only a plasmoid?

Taking in Sagittarius A*, none of the actual 25,000Ly observations match the same observation at 750million Lyrs in Cygnus A*
Both are BHs at the galactic centre
cantdrive85> There is no BH. Only a plasmoid, or series of them, which once a threshold is reached naturally form jets. Oh, and the entraining magnetic fields all fed by intergalactic Birkeland currents. Real physics, real objects, no faerie dust or physics defying maths gymnastics required!.

Cygnus A* is a radio galaxy, and one of the strongest radio sources discovered by Grote Reber in 1939. Cygnus A*, along with Cassiopeia A, and Puppis A were the first "radio stars" identified with an optical source. Of these, Cygnus A became the first radio galaxy
https://en.wikipe...Cygnus_A
With two comprising alternative apposing BHs, a third comparison views is also an alternative, namely a plasmoid!

Oct 18, 2018
And lets net forget, the black hole itself doesn't produce the jets, the field does, the black hole just distorts the field according to its structure.

Oct 18, 2018
Already explained, the stars are tracing out orbits experienced by charged masses in a strong magnetic field. It is not a falsification.


No, it hasn't been explained. Anywhere. Nobody believes Sgr A* is a plasmoid. Therefore nobody has done the maths. What is the charge on a star? Why can it not be very high? What is the charge of this non-existent plasmoid? Only an idiot would suggest a plasmoid as causing the observed orbits around Sgr A*. It is a non-hypothesis. It doesn't exist.


Oct 18, 2018
How many Sequence-BHs are categorised

The Sun is a G-type main-sequence star (G2V) based on its spectral class.
And as such we expect the same G-type main-sequence star in Cygnus A* to be exactly the same as our Sun in the Milkyway
Such that Sagittarius A*s BH is expected to exhibit the same properties as in Cygnus A*s BH
These two BHs are patently to different Sequence-BHs
The theory laid down is as a BH is a singularity, and as such BHs can have no distinguishing features, just as two G-type main-sequence stars are identical and we would not notice the difference if our star went on holiday and its twin stood in its place from Cygnus A* for a week!

Oct 18, 2018
And as such we expect the same G-type main-sequence star in Cygnus A* to be exactly the same as our Sun in the Milkyway


Errrr, what? Sorry, that is a huge pile of fail. Who the hell is saying that Cygnus A is a bloody G-type star? It's a black hole. G type stars cannot form BHs. Stop commenting on things you clearly don't understand.


Oct 18, 2018
" Stop commenting on things you clearly don't understand."

That's rich....you do every time you unpucker your butthole to shit all over the floor in any discussion regarding magnetism or plasma. Or space in general, or the environment, or what you think other posters understand...as a matter of fact, if you followed your own advice you wouldn't ever open your mouth again...thicko.

Oct 18, 2018
Sorry guys, just wanted to enter a thread with a Jones type of flare for a change.

I would follow with his standard 3 post volley of nonsense and verbal vomit but just getting my feet wet today....

Oct 18, 2018
" Stop commenting on things you clearly don't understand."

That's rich....you do every time you unpucker your butthole to shit all over the floor in any discussion regarding magnetism or plasma. Or space in general, or the environment, or what you think other posters understand...as a matter of fact, if you followed your own advice you wouldn't ever open your mouth again...thicko.


Sorry? You do not understand the first thing about plasma physics, do you? And haven't got the cojones to go to a physics forum and test your erroneous crap where it can be commented on by a plasma physicist. All mouth, no trousers, as usual with EU idiots.

Oct 18, 2018
haven't got the cojones

Your obsession with testicles is starting to become concerning...

Oct 18, 2018
A nervous quivering wreck
theredpill> Sorry guys, just wanted to enter a thread with a Jones type of flare for a change.
I would follow with his standard 3 post volley of nonsense and verbal vomit but just getting my feet wet today....

Don't worry theredpill, after a few weeks on these boards you'll be a nervous quivering wreck indistinguishable from JD, then you can take JDs mantle, as JD recovers in his sanatorium!

Oct 18, 2018
A nervous quivering wreck
theredpill> Sorry guys, just wanted to enter a thread with a Jones type of flare for a change.
I would follow with his standard 3 post volley of nonsense and verbal vomit but just getting my feet wet today....

Don't worry theredpill, after a few weeks on these boards you'll be a nervous quivering wreck indistinguishable from JD, then you can take JDs mantle, as JD recovers in his sanatorium!


Says the uneducated idiot who just suggested Cygnus A was a G type star. Oh, the irony!

Oct 18, 2018
"Sorry?"
Doubtful...
" You do not understand the first thing about plasma physics, do you?"
Talking while peering into a reflective surface again? If you see it answer...just say bad dog!
" And haven't got the cojones to go to a physics forum and test your erroneous crap where it can be commented on by a plasma physicist."
Clearly, that's why I make up things like magnetospheres being a magnetic field and things in space being weightless, you know those scientifically unfounded things that you chose to debate from your enlightened perspective...( spoken while rolling up newspaper)
" All mouth, no trousers, as usual with EU idiots."
Speaking to the same reflection as mentioned above ( and a noted preoccupation with cajones and trousers indeed)
"as JD recovers in his sanatorium!"

Sadly, recovery from whatever he has seems very unlikely ( I don't think they do reverse lobotomies)

Oct 18, 2018
^^^^^Translation: "I, theredpill, confirm that I know nothing about plasma physics, or much of any other type of science. That is why I am an EUist."

See, that wasn't difficult, was it, bird brain?

Oct 18, 2018
OK, I'm back. You really are a sorry bunch of scientifically ignorant so-and-so's - stick to the science or f**k off to a cake-bakery forum!

So, Benni wants to know what kind of dust they're talking about in the article:
what is the composition of this dust within the "dusty torus"? There is no speculation as to what this dust is
After saying he has no idea of what kind of dust they're talking about, he then goes on to tell us what this dust is doing!
I'm presuming this dust is trapped onto the magnetic field lines caused by yada, yada...
So he hasn't got even the first idea of what he's talking about: why doesn't he just say so?

Benni, try this NEW IDEA: go read the literature on the subject. Find out what cosmic dust is, what it's made of, how it gets to where it is, how it gets to be aligned to magnetic fields, how light can be polarized by such dust particles, and so on.

Firstly, here's the paper referenced in the article: https://arxiv.org...1114.pdf

Oct 18, 2018
"
"^^^^^Translation: "I, theredpill, confirm that I know nothing about plasma physics, or much of any other type of science. That is why I am an EUist."

See, that wasn't difficult, was it, bird brain?"

Translation: I shit on the floor again.


Oct 18, 2018
I see you have nailed your intellectual colours to the mast JD

Considering your insistence on documentary research, it requires reading and understanding in the context in whence it is written JD.
You are not, any more in days of yore, in a slanging match with your arch rival cantdrive85, as I have oft wondered why you get into your argumentative loop of no escape JD.
Now we know, concerning my inky text, "How many Sequence-BHs are categorised" your foibles JD.
Yours is a false contrived argument, a twist of logic of yourself JD that can now be clearly seen that you do not comprehend what your eyes are reading JD!

Oct 18, 2018
So he hasn't got even the first idea of what he's talking about

Conceptually this no different then saying mass shapes spacetime, without having any idea of what mass or spacetime is. Science has gotten along just fine making assumptions, so feel free to step down off your pedestal.

Oct 18, 2018
After you've read the paper, Benni (or anybody else who's even remotely interested in actually learning something about these matters), try these:

* https://saoastron...ignment/ - first steps in getting to grip with dust grain alignment with ISM magnetic fields.

* https://briankobe...rockets/ - ditto...

* https://arxiv.org...3696.pdf - Grain Alignment: Role of Radiative Torques and Paramagnetic Relaxation

* http://iopscience...775/2/84 - Evidence For H2 Formation Driven Dust Grain Alignment In IC 63

After you've read those and understood them, you'll be able to say you know a thing or two about interstellar dust. Happy reading!

Oct 18, 2018
Yours is a false contrived argument, a twist of logic of yourself JD that can now be clearly seen that you do not comprehend what your eyes are reading JD!


WTF are you talking about, you idiot?


Oct 18, 2018
Science has gotten along just fine making assumptions
Actually, dumbass, science has gotten along just fine, quietly building the infrastructure of the world you live in, including making the computer you type on, and the internet, and the medicine that keeps you healthy, the airplanes that scoot above your head, the GPS systems that get you to the right place for your Tinder date, your smartphone that you gaze at all day in a trance, and all the wonders that enable you to come to this forum and proclaim that science is "just fine making assumptions".

Get real, dumb cluck!

Oct 18, 2018
"
"^^^^^Translation: "I, theredpill, confirm that I know nothing about plasma physics, or much of any other type of science. That is why I am an EUist."

See, that wasn't difficult, was it, bird brain?"

Translation: I shit on the floor again.



So, you don't deny that you are scientifically illiterate. Excellent. Keep it up. Care to enlighten us with your total lack of knowledge on the above article? Thought not.

Oct 18, 2018
@jd
WTF are you talking about, you idiot?
PLEASE, man - leave the fool alone to burble his inane fantasies in the corner. Granville is a mental wreck, you can't have any doubt about that, he simply can't be reached by any form of reason, and should be left to rant in his cocoon where he feels safe.

Ignore him, @jd, move on, don't waste your time trying to make him understand anything. But full marks for trying...

Oct 18, 2018
We admire your spirit of challenge theredpill
Yours is a false contrived argument, a twist of logic of yourself JD that can now be clearly seen that you do not comprehend what your eyes are reading JD!

jonesdave> WTF are you talking about, you idiot?.

And as JD confirms his appointment at his sanatorium theredpill, take note and prepare your documentary research, bucket, mop as taking over JDs mantle is a messy sloppy endeavour, full of pitfalls and spills and hours sitting in darkened rooms at the end of the day, we admire your spirit of challenge theredpill.

Oct 18, 2018
"So, you don't deny that you are scientifically illiterate. Excellent. Keep it up. Care to enlighten us with your total lack of knowledge on the above article? Thought not."

Fido must have had an extra helping this morning....I think his whole head can fit in the pile it's leaving today folks.

Oct 18, 2018
"So, you don't deny that you are scientifically illiterate. Excellent. Keep it up. Care to enlighten us with your total lack of knowledge on the above article? Thought not."

Fido must have had an extra helping this morning....I think his whole head can fit in the pile it's leaving today folks.


Lol. What a cretin.

Oct 18, 2018
It's not what you say JD, it's how you say it

And as if to prove a point it does not have to be the way you make your bed JD, as just you taking note of Skylight's inky textual words JD, is all that we ask of you JD, nothing more, nothing less.

Oct 18, 2018
Actually, dumbass, science has gotten along just fine

Way to side step the metaphor, you big brained scary science bully

Oct 18, 2018
"Lol. What a cretin."

It says....perhaps if it knew the meaning of the word it could learn to crap outdoors, or even in an actual toilet....instead of the eternal wait to hear the question "whoseagoodboy?"

Simply following your precedent you've set for interaction here Fido, as Granville notes if I adopted it permanently I would be as worthless, helpless, and thoughtless as yourself. But I figure if I stick to just you and those who choose to speak down to others with never ending hostility... from a position of unwarranted authority.... because they can regurgitate obsolete "knowledge" without understanding most of what they are saying...I can avoid your certain fate of padded walls and a bite guard.

Oct 18, 2018
"Lol. What a cretin."

It says....perhaps if it knew the meaning of the word it could learn to crap outdoors, or even in an actual toilet....instead of the eternal wait to hear the question "whoseagoodboy?"

Simply following your precedent you've set for interaction here Fido, as Granville notes if I adopted it permanently I would be as worthless, helpless, and thoughtless as yourself. But I figure if I stick to just you and those who choose to speak down to others with never ending hostility... from a position of unwarranted authority.... because they can regurgitate obsolete "knowledge" without understanding most of what they are saying...I can avoid your certain fate of padded walls and a bite guard.


And you're still a cretin, and you're still scientifically illiterate, aren't you? That isn't going to change, is it? Tell us, EU cultist; when was Earth orbiting Saturn? Lol.

Oct 18, 2018
"And you're still a cretin, and you're still scientifically illiterate, aren't you? That isn't going to change, is it? Tell us, EU cultist; when was Earth orbiting Saturn? Lol."

What makes me LOL, is that you make statements like the above where you have to insinuate what I believe, claim I said things I didn't and use words you don't understand. Where as I just get to make fun of things you actually say, actually believe, using words I know the meaning of. Hence why you are the dog and I am the keeper of the rolled up paper. (speaking metaphorically of course).

Oct 18, 2018
Where as I just get to make fun of things you actually say, actually believe, using words I know the meaning of..


Wrong, woo boy, you have never shown anything I said to be wrong. You are waaaaay too thick to be able to do that.
So, tell us, roughly what was the energy of the cosmic thunderbolts that created Valles Marineris and the Grand Canyon? Lol. Yes, folks, that is what these EU cretins believe! I kid you not.


Oct 18, 2018
So to bring this derailment a little closer to the target subject...

For the EU guys:

I've seen the z-pinch diagram that shows an electric current along the jets which confines into a central plasmoid and produce the typical hourglass shape.

Clearly, both jets are being expelled from the center, yet the current being pinched is unidirectional. Why are the jets symmetrical and not affected by the direction of the current?

Oct 18, 2018
So to bring this derailment a little closer to the target subject...

For the EU guys:

I've seen the z-pinch diagram that shows an electric current along the jets which confines into a central plasmoid and produce the typical hourglass shape.

Clearly, both jets are being expelled from the center, yet the current being pinched is unidirectional. Why are the jets symmetrical and not affected by the direction of the current?


Are you talking about the claim by Scott in one of his so-called 'papers', regarding the M2-9 nebula? If so, I have been saying the same thing for a while, and Brian Koberlein wrote a piece on it here:

https://briankobe...nknowns/

Another of Scott's schoolboy errors.

Oct 18, 2018
" you have never shown anything I said to be wrong."

The memory of a dog as well. I even used one of the examples above...the one where Barakn came in and tried to talk you down regarding the magnetosphere that develops around a coma and what a magnetosphere is...poor drooling bastard....wandering around lost...someone call the pound.

@Rossim

I have never seen said diagram, is it supported experimentally/observationally? For those other than Joneswoof, I do not support the EU's base philosophy regarding electrical currents creating ALL astrophysical magnetic fields because evidence does not support that assertion. Nor can a sphere with a magnetic field be modelled as a "bar magnet". The data from Juno and Cassini clearly demonstrate just a few of the complexities regarding the magnetic fields attached to these bodies. Jones...you shouldn't bother with said data, nothing you think you understand is supported by it, and clearly learning anything is part of your past.

Oct 18, 2018
The memory of a dog as well. I even used one of the examples above...the one where Barakn came in and tried to talk you down regarding the magnetosphere that develops around a coma and what a magnetosphere is...poor drooling bastard....wandering around lost...someone call the pound.


Nope, I was right on that point, and you have zero evidence to the contrary. You invoked a magnetic field out of nowhere, instead of reading the many papers that describe the situation, all the way back to Alfven in 1957. You are just too stupid to realise how stupid you are. However, feel free to contact any plasma physicist who has worked on cometary missions, and ask them. Haven't got the guts, have you, woo boy? Want me to do it for you, thicko?


Oct 18, 2018
Jones...you shouldn't bother with said data, nothing you think you understand is supported by it, and clearly learning anything is part of your past.


Lol. Says a member of a cult that believes Earth used to orbit Saturn, Venus came flying out of Jupiter and enormous canyons were created by electric woo! I don't need to learn much at all to show you up for the uneducated cretin that you are.
And what data, imbecile? No EU woo going on there, is there?


Oct 18, 2018
I have never seen said diagram, is it supported experimentally/observationally?


It was another idiotic suggestion from one of the mental midgets of what is laughably referred to as 'EU theory' (lol). This is the pile of fail in question, by the fruitloop Don Scott:

http://www.ptep-o...1-13.PDF

Note that that is from 2015. And, as Rossim correctly notes, the nebula, not unexpectedly, behaves nothing like a z-pinch, and Scott is therefore an idiot. The Doppler observations that show him to be wrong were made in 1989 (26 years earlier!), in this paper;

M2-9-A planetary nebula with an eruptive nucleus?
Balick, B.
https://openacces...quence=1

Are all you EU guys this dumb?


Oct 18, 2018

and enormous canyons were created by electric woo!


IMO I don't think you need to be an advocate of the entire electric universe model to be intrigued of the possibility that planetary topography could have been altered by massive discharges.

I think that anomalous craters observed are very compelling, especially the abundance of bullseye craters and geometric craters.

I'm quite skeptical of planet to planet discharges but we know the sun expels incredible volumes of plasma which can impact planets and moons absent of atmospheres. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that at some point in the billions of years the sun's existed that it spat out an unusually large amount of plasma that could have directly affected a planetary surface.

Oct 18, 2018
Oh oh...forgot dogs can't read.

My comment :"I do not support the EU's base philosophy regarding electrical currents creating ALL astrophysical magnetic fields because evidence does not support that assertion."

The immediate bark back:"Lol. Says a member of a cult that believes Earth used to orbit Saturn, Venus came flying out of Jupiter and enormous canyons were created by electric woo!"

Go lay on your mat until someone comes an gets you....I would say until you develop any measurable level of understanding but watching a dog starve, even you, would break my heart.


Oct 18, 2018
I'm quite skeptical of planet to planet discharges but we know the sun expels incredible volumes of plasma which can impact planets and moons absent of atmospheres. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that at some point in the billions of years the sun's existed that it spat out an unusually large amount of plasma that could have directly affected a planetary surface.


And why would that leave a crater????????? Sorry, it is pure woo, and only exists because idiots like Thornhill and Talbott are Velikovskian loons, and want these craters created by 'cosmic thunderbolts' (lol) from the time when they idiotically believe that Venus was doing handbrake turns around the solar system! It is total and utter nonsense.

Oct 18, 2018
Oh oh...forgot dogs can't read.

My comment :"I do not support the EU's base philosophy regarding electrical currents creating ALL astrophysical magnetic fields because evidence does not support that assertion."

The immediate bark back:"Lol. Says a member of a cult that believes Earth used to orbit Saturn, Venus came flying out of Jupiter and enormous canyons were created by electric woo!"

Go lay on your mat until someone comes an gets you....I would say until you develop any measurable level of understanding but watching a dog starve, even you, would break my heart.



So, you don't believe the basic tenets of the cult? You do know that the people who started the cult believe all that sh!t, yes? So, why do you follow such cretins? Is there anything of the EU non-science that you do believe? Because no respectable scientists believe such drivel. Perhaps you've never studied science, and that is why you are taken in by it. Yes?

Oct 18, 2018
"I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that at some point in the billions of years the sun's existed that it spat out an unusually large amount of plasma that could have directly affected a planetary surface."

It has, it was the Carrington event. The problem with that "etching" theory is that in order to electrically "etch" a planet it would have to be a sustained particle outflow from the sun for a very long duration prior to the planet having an atmosphere. And it would etch in a symmetrical arc formation due to the relative motions.

Oct 18, 2018
The problem with that "etching" theory is that in order to electrically "etch" a planet it would have to be a sustained particle outflow from the sun for a very long duration prior to the planet having an atmosphere. And it would etch in a symmetrical arc formation due to the relative motions.


Correct! Wow. And it would need to be concentrated on a certain spot. Given the planetary rotation, and the solar rotation, that means it would have to be confined to a very short period of time. Effectively, a lightning bolt (lol). And it would have to be as hot as hell. And crater studies do not match up with this crazy mechanism. However, this is one of the central tenets of EU idiocy. Quite why anyone would take them seriously is beyond me. Must be due to a lack of scientific knowledge.


Oct 18, 2018
" Perhaps you've never studied science, and that is why you are taken in by it. Yes?"

Straight up Jones, I believe in scientific discussion about observations while applying verifiable physics to the discussion. And this dialogue has no place for an antiquated preconception about how things work in space, there is no room for appeals to authority that spring from the same preconception. I mentioned the magnetic highway and how it works because based on real physics, the observation can only be explained one way, you said it "sounded like electric woo to you"... yet the physics behind electron travel is as solid as any physical principle. Your disdain for the physics that, will dislodge the useless gravity only model is understandable...it's the end of an era you are very fond of. But your behaviour here towards those not bound by your dogma is atrocious, and worthy of reprisal at every opportunity provided until you either leave or grow up.

Oct 18, 2018
" Perhaps you've never studied science, and that is why you are taken in by it. Yes?"

Straight up Jones, I believe in scientific discussion about observations while applying verifiable physics to the discussion. And this dialogue has no place for an antiquated preconception about how things work in space, there is no room for appeals to authority that spring from the same preconception. I mentioned the magnetic highway and how it works because based on real physics, the observation can only be explained one way, you said it "sounded like electric woo to you"... yet the physics behind electron travel is as solid as any physical principle. Your disdain for the physics that, will dislodge the


Physics? You haven't got a clue! Gravity dominates at solar system scales, let alone galactic scales. You won't find a serious scientist saying otherwise. Eh? So, who is talking science, and who is making sh!t up based on not understanding said science?

Oct 18, 2018

Correct! Wow. And it would need to be concentrated on a certain spot. Given the planetary rotation, and the solar rotation, that means it would have to be confined to a very short period of time. Effectively, a lightning bolt (lol). And it would have to be as hot as hell.


So... I'm not talking about one event altering the entire surface of a planet at one time.

I don't think it's impossible that plasma from a superflare which erupted from a young red dwarf described in another recent phys.org article could have discharged with a nearby planet. That flare peaked at 193 times the normal brightness and lasted for about a half an hour.


Oct 18, 2018
> Egg

But what is the composition of this dust within the "dusty torus"? There is no speculation as to what this dust is. I'm presuming this dust is trapped onto the magnetic field lines caused by the movement of electrons similar to Birkeland currents.
says Benni

I tend to think that these are all "surplus" dust that had not accreted to any particular body, and are free-floating - thus unable to resist its attraction to the torus, and will be held captive within it until such time as it is fed to the BH. Almost like being vacuumed up by a voracious vacuum cleaner. As to its composition, it may be positive charged. I think that they will come to determine that also.


The artist has the drawing half right from what I can see, at least ALL the magnetic field is confined inside the torus. What is unclear is the pathways of current flows so the torus that can create the magnetic field.


Oct 18, 2018

Correct! Wow. And it would need to be concentrated on a certain spot. Given the planetary rotation, and the solar rotation, that means it would have to be confined to a very short period of time. Effectively, a lightning bolt (lol). And it would have to be as hot as hell.


So... I'm not talking about one event altering the entire surface of a planet at one time.

I don't think it's impossible that plasma from a superflare which erupted from a young red dwarf described in another recent phys.org article could have discharged with a nearby planet. That flare peaked at 193 times the normal brightness and lasted for about a half an hour.



And is composed of ions and electrons. What do you want them to do? Mechanically excavate a bloody great hole? Sorry, not happening.

Oct 18, 2018
The artist has the drawing half right from what I can see, at least ALL the magnetic field is confined inside the torus. What is unclear is the pathways of current flows so the torus that can create the magnetic field.


The torus does not create the magnetic field! The field creates the torus.


Oct 18, 2018

And is composed of ions and electrons. What do you want them to do? Mechanically excavate a bloody great hole? Sorry, not happening.


Uhh... no?

https://ac.els-cd...34ae43b5

Oct 18, 2018

And is composed of ions and electrons. What do you want them to do? Mechanically excavate a bloody great hole? Sorry, not happening.


Uhh... no?

https://ac.els-cd...34ae43b5


Errrm, no, that is a human created process for creating teeny tiny holes in materials, such as metals. Nobody in their right mind would suggest EDM occurring naturally in astrophysical situations!

Oct 18, 2018
" You won't find a serious scientist saying otherwise. Eh? "

Aw Jones, this was something you needed to comprehend when I wrote it:
"And this dialogue has no place for an antiquated preconception about how things work in space, there is no room for appeals to authority that spring from the same preconception."

"Physics? You haven't got a clue! Gravity dominates at solar system scales, let alone galactic scales."

Antiquated preconceptions Jones....all evidence says the above is patently wrong. The only thing that says what you (and your mainstream devouts) say is math that adds 80% more unseen, unmeasured, untestable matter to the universe to balance the forces. Yet oddly enough....weightlessness of mass can be achieved anywhere outside the immediate vicinity of any other mass in space. Unless said "weightless" mass is charged...then it moves...seemingly all on its own and ignorant of any gravity..watch a CME a hundred times...if you don't get it...try 101.


Oct 18, 2018
Antiquated preconceptions Jones....all evidence says the above is patently wrong.


Wrong. All the evidence says I'm right. And you won't find a sane scientist saying otherwise. I asked some other EU crank; show me the maths for how EM can explain rotation curves, or affect stellar orbits. You can't because you just keep making sh!t up based on nothing other than your p!ss poor understanding of science.

Oct 18, 2018
The artist has the drawing half right from what I can see, at least ALL the magnetic field is confined inside the torus. What is unclear is the pathways of current flows so the torus that can create the magnetic field.


The torus does not create the magnetic field! The field creates the torus.
.......can't have the magnetic field without the medium of the torus to carry & confine it. Electrical Engineers study this in Electricity & Magnetism, we wrap wire around an EXISTING toroid. We didn't plug a wire into a wall socket & loop it & then wait for a toroid to show up just because we created a bunch of loops with a current carrying conductor.

Oct 18, 2018
@rossim

If I were debating myself I would have mentioned that said etching process may very well have been what creates an atmosphere in the first place. A young very active star with repeated powerful CME's would definitely stir things up on the surface of a body with no atmosphere. But back to the physics of the particles....if they are charged they have to follow field "lines", so to cause an "etch" the size of say, the grand canyon would require a large region of intense surface bound magnetic flux reaching far enough into space to focus the particles and direct them toward the planet...that is tough to produce.

Oct 18, 2018
"Wrong. All the evidence says I'm right."

OK back to Jonesisms: Attention fuckwit - Your math is based around 3 things which only exist on paper until proven otherwise, there is no evidence that any mainstream astrophysical math based on gravity is actually correct. It's hilarious, you claim the math proves the stuff is there because the math describes how we move with the stuff there. Yet one object you need to be there cannot actually be described mathematically, the other you need to outnumber normal matter 5:1 and in giant uniform clouds just outside the galaxy (and this was only added due to improved observational capacity which showed the original gravity math to be very wrong) and the last is energy that only seems to be missing energy as a component....and it all started when all the matter in the universe moved faster than light....

It's easy to see why there are a growing number of people seeing through the bullshit.

Oct 18, 2018
One of the interesting arguments FOR massive electrical conduction and plasma impact on Earth is the Green Glass found in places of the Sahara, where large areas are fused sand forming an inches thick glass layer which has broken and crumbled over the ages, but the Green Desert Glass is considered Holy by some.

Earlier scientists ascribed it to a major coronal mass ejection and plasma stream that penetrated the atmosphere and scorched the desert into glass. So, MAINSTREAM Science has held this as a possibility for a very long time.

It has only been recently that there has been a competing theory, since the Alamagordo test in NM, where the desert sand was turned into extremely similar glass with very similar chemistry, aside from differing radiation and decay product ratios.

So there is speculation that there was an atomic war waged on the planet previously. Of course, most regard this as purest fantasy, but please explain how the Sahara Green Glass layer formed otherwise.

Oct 18, 2018
The Green Glass is obviously not volcanic in nature, that was an early thought, no normal fire is hot enough to do that in a forest fire situation, and a CME Plasma event would likely take away a good portion of our atmosphere and boil oceans as well, which would have been very hard on life as we know it, however, there are plant, animal and humanoid fossils beneath these areas, so it has happened 'recently' on the cosmic scale, perhaps tens of thousands of years.

How many times have we bombed ourselves back to cavemen and then mutated from previous stock? Certain early Homo lines were actually more refined than our own, as seen in skeletal analysis where there have been times we went from seemingly soft, non-war lifestyles (figured by bone wear and exertion on ligament attachment points as well as dental data) punctuated with periods of more brutish, warlike survivor types as would be seen after ANY sort of cataclysm, Natural or manmade. And there appear to have been many.

Oct 18, 2018
The torus does not create the magnetic field! The field creates the torus

This is the type of backward beliefs that pervades the dark science and the plasma ignoramuses, they seem to be unaware that magnetic fields are due to electric currents and or moving electric fields.

Oct 18, 2018
The torus does not create the magnetic field! The field creates the torus

This is the type of backward beliefs that pervades the dark science and the plasma ignoramuses, they seem to be unaware that magnetic fields are due to electric currents and or moving electric fields.


Wrong. The torus is dust, you idiot.

Oct 18, 2018
One of the interesting arguments FOR massive electrical conduction and plasma impact on Earth is the Green Glass found in places of the Sahara,


Do you never tire of writing senseless crap? Just show us the paper where some idiot has suggested that this glass is formed by electrical woo.

Oct 18, 2018
"How many times have we bombed ourselves back to cavemen and then mutated from previous stock?"

NONE!

Else there would be evidence of civilization in it's TRASH of all things. No trash buried anywhere.

Oct 18, 2018
OK back to Jonesisms: Attention fuckwit - Your math is based around 3 things which only exist on paper until proven otherwise, there is no evidence that any mainstream astrophysical math based on gravity is actually correct.


It is correct, sh!t for brains. As evidenced by many scientists doing said maths. And your total inability to refute it. All you've got is uneducated word salad. What is the galactic magnetic field, dickhead? What is the charge on a star, you imbecile? Show the maths for how this idiotic, unscientific crap has anything to do with galaxy rotation curves or planetary orbits. If you can't, dumbo, then STFU you deranged loon. Yes? Show the science, and quit the typical EU, science-free word salad, woo boy. Get to it, you cretin.


Oct 18, 2018
@rossim

If I were debating myself I would have mentioned that said etching process may very well have been what creates an atmosphere in the first place. A young very active star with repeated powerful CME's would definitely stir things up on the surface of a body with no atmosphere. But back to the physics of the particles....if they are charged they have to follow field "lines", so to cause an "etch" the size of say, the grand canyon would require a large region of intense surface bound magnetic flux reaching far enough into space to focus the particles and direct them toward the planet...that is tough to produce.


Oh Jesus, what an idiot! Where did you learn that, you thick fool? That one of Thornhill's gems is it? It is scientifically illiterate enough to be! Lol. Moron.

Oct 18, 2018
The artist has the drawing half right from what I can see, at least ALL the magnetic field is confined inside the torus. What is unclear is the pathways of current flows so the torus that can create the magnetic field.


The torus does not create the magnetic field! The field creates the torus.
.......can't have the magnetic field without the medium of the torus to carry & confine it. Electrical Engineers study this in Electricity & Magnetism, we wrap wire around an EXISTING toroid. We didn't plug a wire into a wall socket & loop it & then wait for a toroid to show up just because we created a bunch of loops with a current carrying conductor.


Strewth you are thick! It is dust, you burke.

Oct 18, 2018
It's easy to see why there are a growing number of people seeing through the bullshit.


And the combined IQ of said people is equivalent to that of a brain damaged squirrel. Correct? And the total number of papers written by them in decent scientific journals = 0. Correct?
And they all post their uneducated crap on places like this. Correct?
Yep, I think those loons can be safely ignored. And are.

Oct 18, 2018
"The torus does not create the magnetic field! The field creates the torus

This is the type of backward beliefs that pervades the dark science and the plasma ignoramuses, they seem to be unaware that magnetic fields are due to electric currents and or moving electric fields.

Actually he's 100% correct, the field creates the torus. If you have something showing a unidirectional motion can generate any kind of magnetic field I will retract what I said.

Oct 18, 2018
"Oh Jesus, what an idiot! Where did you learn that, you thick fool? That one of Thornhill's gems is it? It is scientifically illiterate enough to be! Lol. Moron."

Hey in this section you got one thing correct and I gave it to you. But I am interested in which part of my comment you responded to with the above sweet nothings that you disagree with and which scientific principles support you....K.....GO!

Oct 18, 2018
For the hard of thinking, there is a huge clue in the article, where it says;

SOFIA data indicate that magnetic fields are trapping and confining dust near the center of the active galaxy, Cygnus A,


Comprehension was never the strong point of cantthink or Benni. Among other things that they are totally clueless about.

Oct 18, 2018
"Oh Jesus, what an idiot! Where did you learn that, you thick fool? That one of Thornhill's gems is it? It is scientifically illiterate enough to be! Lol. Moron."

Hey in this section you got one thing correct and I gave it to you. But I am interested in which part of my comment you responded to with the above sweet nothings that you disagree with and which scientific principles support you....K.....GO!


Do please tell us how CMEs create an atmosphere! Lol. You'll find that they tend to have the opposite effect. Atmospheres are either primordial or secondary. CMEs don't come into it. They help to strip atmospheres, which is why Mars has bugger all, due to its lack of an intrinsic magnetic field.

Oct 18, 2018
"It is correct, sh!t for brains. As evidenced by many scientists doing said maths."

It isn't correct if you cannot prove it is, there is a debate here because nobody can prove that the math is describing reality despite the billions of dollars spent searching. Reality Jones, where you cannot draw up a mathematical equation describing a prancing unicorn and then declare it exists because you said it mathematically. Or should we now refer to GR as "number salad"? Seems to fit into reality better. Saying something in an equation or set of them is no different than saying it in any other language if what you are saying is nonsense. Dark matter is nonsense, Black holes are definitely nonsense as even math cannot describe them, and as demonstrated here, you are nonsense. But the fact you understand something as indicated by your torus remark doesn't leave me without hope for you....just a major lack of respect.

Oct 18, 2018
Hey in this section you got one thing correct and I gave it to you


Wrong. I also stated that EM has no influence on planetary orbits, or galactic rotation curves. You will find that to also be correct.

Oct 18, 2018
"It is correct, sh!t for brains. As evidenced by many scientists doing said maths."

It isn't correct if you cannot prove it is, there is a debate here because nobody can prove that the math is describing reality despite the billions of dollars spent searching. Reality Jones, where you cannot draw up a mathematical equation describing a prancing unicorn and then declare it exists because you said it mathematically. Or should we now refer to GR as "number salad"? Seems to fit into reality better. Saying something in an equation or set of them is no different than saying it in any other language if what you are saying is nonsense. Dark matter is nonsense, Black holes are definitely nonsense as even math cannot describe them, and as demonstrated here, you are nonsense. But the fact you understand something as indicated by your torus remark doesn't leave me without hope for you....just a major lack of respect.


And not a scientist agrees with you. Fail. More word salad.

Oct 18, 2018
@rossim
IMO I don't think you need to be an advocate of the entire electric universe model
this is a problem that I and other science advocates have

for the record, there is no eu model
I've asked more than a few eu advocates here on PO alone to present the eu model and not one single person has been able to point to a model, let alone point to any reputable science source involved in said model
to be intrigued of the possibility that planetary topography could have been altered by massive discharges
it's easily verified
Anything that has the power to reform the topography will leave behind evidence

.

@Steel
please explain how the Sahara Green Glass layer formed otherwise
without invoking CME's, lightning has been known to repeatedly strike the Sahara per Dwyer et al (2008) researching TGFs

that doesn't mean "massive electrical conduction"
it could just be a sh*t-ton of regular old lightning strikes over a long period of time

Oct 18, 2018
"Do please tell us how CMEs create an atmosphere! You'll find they tend to have the opposite effect."

Not if the planet has no atmosphere to start with, made that part of the requirement pretty clear...did half the reading again did you? Likely why someone who thinks they are a physicist spends all his waking hours here ranting about how much the peoples work he has read is correct...ever do any for yourself? Ever conceive a theory and attempt to disprove it? (That is actually how science works BTW, you try to disprove your theory, not manufacture evidence to keep it afloat...and yes, any REAL scientist will tell you this...it's how we can tell you are not even close to one).

Oct 18, 2018
"Wrong. I also stated that EM has no influence on planetary orbits, or galactic rotation curves. You will find that to also be correct"

So let me ask you, why can a magnetic field create a rotating torus, but not orbital bodies? And I am not saying gravity isn't there to help, and even possibly dominate at a certain point, but if a torus rotating around a body is resultant from a magnetic field...then everything in the torus is moving because of the field, right?

Oct 18, 2018
Not if the planet has no atmosphere to start with,


Carry on, woo boy. How do CMEs create, rather than strip an atmosphere? Why has the Moon not got one? 4.5 billion years of solar wind and CME impacting it. Sod all atmosphere. You want it to sputter dust and other crap to create an atmosphere? Doesn't work. You are talking out of your arse, as usual. Learn to science, yes?

Oct 18, 2018
"It's easy to see why there are a growing number of people seeing through the bullshit."

Well they aren't going to the EU youtube site. It never went viral. 85k subscribers in 2012 only 120k today in 2018.

Oct 18, 2018
"Wrong. I also stated that EM has no influence on planetary orbits, or galactic rotation curves. You will find that to also be correct"

So let me ask you, why can a magnetic field create a rotating torus, but not orbital bodies? And I am not saying gravity isn't there to help, and even possibly dominate at a certain point, but if a torus rotating around a body is resultant from a magnetic field...then everything in the torus is moving because of the field, right?


Errrm, the BH is a rather large gravitational force! And the magnetic field was there to start with. Stars have magnetic fields. Some stars become neutron stars. Magnetic field becomes huge. BHs form from neutron stars. Et cetera. Astrophysics 101. Try it. And we are not talking about the huge fields around BHs. We are talking about the physical impossibility of p!ss weak galactic fields influencing essentially charge neutral stars. Not. Going. To. Happen. Is it?

Oct 18, 2018
"The big question is; why is there a (very weak) galactic field in the first place?"

" the BH is a rather large gravitational force! And the magnetic field was there to start with"

So black holes are (act like) big magnets. That answers the question then.

Oct 18, 2018
Well they aren't going to the EU youtube site. It never went viral. 85k subscribers in 2012 only 120k today in 2018.
Kim K has 60mil followers, Dr Pimple Popper MD has 3mil followers though, just goes to show where society's priorities are located. BTW, science is not a popularity contest. Typically a very few percentage of folks are on the cutting edge, as there are very few real thinkers.

Oct 18, 2018
cantdrive85: yes, but Talbott's mythology ruins any science there, just for starters.
Talbott, with that terrific Disney voice, can make any documentary sound logical and scientific.

Oct 18, 2018
Well they aren't going to the EU youtube site. It never went viral. 85k subscribers in 2012 only 120k today in 2018.
Kim K has 60mil followers, Dr Pimple Popper MD has 3mil followers though, just goes to show where society's priorities are located. BTW, science is not a popularity contest. Typically a very few percentage of folks are on the cutting edge, as there are very few real thinkers.


And there are no thinkers in EU are there? Just scientifically illiterate Velikovskian loons.

Oct 18, 2018
Talbott, with that terrific Disney voice, can make any documentary sound logical and scientific.


Only to the hard of thinking! :) Which is their target audience.

Oct 18, 2018
"The big question is; why is there a (very weak) galactic field in the first place?"

" the BH is a rather large gravitational force! And the magnetic field was there to start with"

So black holes are (act like) big magnets. That answers the question then.


Depends what you mean by that. The magnetic field is obviously not affecting stellar orbits around it. There is plenty on the literature on BH magnetic fields.

Oct 18, 2018
...... but Talbott's mythology ruins any science there, just for starters.


Not to mention Thornhill. He is as crazy as the idiot Talbott. Big Verlikovsky fan. Which renders him as being scientifically illiterate, by definition.

Oct 18, 2018
Yeah, there's no evidence of a galaxy powered Sun, the big screw-up imo. Secondly, that recent comet landing showed the comet was ice underneath the dust, clearly revealed ice showing. And finally, Venus has thousands of craters, that wouldn't be the case if it had just been ejected from jupiter. Based on those three things, I think EU is full of BS.

Oct 18, 2018
"Wrong. I also stated that EM has no influence on planetary orbits, or galactic rotation curves. You will find that to also be correct"

So let me ask you, why can a magnetic field create a rotating torus, but not orbital bodies? And I am not saying gravity isn't there to help, and even possibly dominate at a certain point, but if a torus rotating around a body is resultant from a magnetic field...then everything in the torus is moving because of the field, right?

Density. Gravity is most effectively represented by a solid body in a highly localized configuration. Magnetism works better relatively with smaller, separated particles that have a larger space between them. The mag field is stronger effect at a larger distance.

Oct 18, 2018
Yeah, there's no evidence of a galaxy powered Sun, the big screw-up imo. Secondly, that recent comet landing showed the comet was ice underneath the dust, clearly revealed ice showing. And finally, Venus has thousands of craters, that wouldn't be the case it had just been ejected from jupiter. Based on those three things, I think EU is full of BS.


Can't disagree with that. Their main problem lies in the two founding fathers of this idiocy. Thornhill & Talbott. If you start with a belief in Velikovsky, then you are simply not doing science. Scott is also incompetent, and was an EE, with no quals in astrophysics or plasma physics. In fact, it is rather telling that they prattle on about plasma physics a lot, yet have nobody qualified in that area!

Oct 18, 2018
@cantdrive.
There is no BH. Only a plasmoid, or..
In closing sentence of my post to you in thread...

https://phys.org/...res.html

...I said:
@cantdrive, time to ditch those obviously wrong bits/claims; and stick with what is logically, plasma-reality, consistent.
But you STILL keep detracting from whatever 'standalone bits' may be correct in your Electric/Plasma perspective; by stubbornly holding to OBVIOUSLY WRONG 'bits'.

Eg, massive bright stars have been observed to 'disappear' from one observation of a location in the sky to the next observation year(s) later. IF the resultant feature was a plasmoid, and not BH, it would be STILL BRIGHT and NOT 'invisible' now.

Also, NSs would be BRIGHT ALL the time IF they were plasmoid features; they would be visible ALL the time, ALL over the sky, EVEN without precessing jets ('pulses') sweeping their light beams across our line of sight.

Time to 'cull' your perspectives 'set', mate. :)

Oct 18, 2018
Immanuel Velikovsky the last Traditional Catastrophists

Immanuel Velikovsky Russian: 1895 – 17 November 1979) a Russian independent scholar best known author of books reinterpreting the events of ancient history

The Venus Syndrome
His use of comparative mythology and ancient literary sources argue that Earth suffered catastrophic close contacts with other planets

Victor Clube and Bill Napier noted Velikovsky is not so much the first of the new catastrophists but is the last in a line of traditional catastrophists going back to mediaeval times and probably earlier

The 1970s, Velikovsky rebutted his critics in academia, delivering lectures on his ideas. By that time, elderly Velikovsky suffered diabetes and intermittent depression, exacerbated by the academic establishment's continuing rejection of his work

A psychiatrist and psychoanalyst in finality suffered his catastrophist's catastrophe
https://en.wikipe...likovsky

Oct 18, 2018
And as such we expect the same G-type main-sequence star in Cygnus A* to be exactly the same as our Sun in the Milkyway


Errrr, what? Sorry, that is a huge pile of fail. Who the hell is saying that Cygnus A is a bloody G-type star? It's a black hole. G type stars cannot form BHs. Stop commenting on things you clearly don't understand.

says jonesybonesy

Looks like granville is correct, jones.

From Wiki - G type Star

Zeta Cygni (ζ Cyg) is a binary star system in the northern constellation of Cygnus, the swan. It has an apparent visual magnitude of 3.26 and, based upon parallax measurements, is about 143 light-years (44 parsecs) away.

-contd-

Oct 18, 2018
-contd-
Looks like granville is correct, jonesybonesy -

The primary component, ζ Cyg A is a giant star with a spectral type of G8 IIIp. Its most likely status is as a red clump giant, an evolved star that has begun core helium fusion. It has around three times the mass of the Sun and has expanded to about 15 times the Sun's radius. It is radiating 112 times the brightness of the Sun from its outer atmosphere at an effective temperature of 4,910 K. At this temperature, the star glows with the yellow hue of a G-type star.[11]

Oct 18, 2018
@Stump, I put that argument in there, as it was shown in encyclopedias from mid-last century that said the lastest theories were that it was created by solar plasma from massive CME, since 75 years earlier they had just had the Carrington Event, that was not such a big jump in ideas then.

Then Oppenheimer was one to note that the green glass formed in NM was like that in the Sahara desert.

Most recent studies seem to feel that it was a meteorite that struck some 23 million years ago, although there is wide dispute due to the ways the glass formed, the temperatures it had to be formed at, and the type of impurities in it. Some feel it was full impact with melt surrounding, some think it was an air-burst impact with great heat and little debris, as per Tunguska, only hotter.

Others will point out that the sands supposedly melted are not of the 23 million year age, but much younger, so the event had to be more recent. That is one still on the table for me, need more data.

Oct 18, 2018
Interesting BBC Documentary on it here:
https://www.youtu...KnjNtwlA

Oct 18, 2018
"SOFIA data indicate that magnetic fields are trapping and confining dust near the center of the active galaxy, Cygnus A,"

To establish these magnetic fields & isolate them inside the toroid so that the magnetic fields can TRAP & CONFINE dust, there must first be a current source looping around the toroid, but the toroid must form first or there is no pathway for the magnetic fields no matter how much in the way of Birkeland type currents may be available.

This whole theory about this torus has a chicken & egg problem. Which came first, the toroid,or the looping currents being conducted around the toroid? One begets to the other in a frenzy of circular reasoning.

Oct 18, 2018
Science has gotten along just fine making assumptions
Actually, dumbass, science has gotten along just fine, quietly building the infrastructure of the world you live in, including making the computer you type on, and the internet, and the medicine that keeps you healthy, the airplanes that scoot above your head, the GPS systems that get you to the right place for your Tinder date, your smartphone that you gaze at all day in a trance, and all the wonders that enable you to come to this forum and proclaim that science is "just fine making assumptions".

Get real, dumb cluck!
- SkyLight aka Captain Chickenshit

My oh my - how Stumps doth protest, clearly wanting to have been the first to extol the virtues and the history of science, as though nobody else could have been aware of the wonders of airplanes, GPS, smartphones, and all those other amazing doodads built by those REAL scientists and Engineers. Ol' Chickenshit ruins yet another forum with irrelevancy

Oct 18, 2018
Interesting, Cygnus A* a giant bubble
This galaxy, at a distance of some 700 million light years, contains a giant bubble filled with hot, X-ray emitting gas detected by Chandra (blue). Radio data from the NSF's Very Large Array (red) reveal "hot spots" about 300,000 light years out from the centre of the galaxy where
http://chandra.ha...cyga.jpg

Interesting – a giant bubble
http://chandra.ha...cale.jpg

Oct 18, 2018
This does not look as much like a galaxy as a plasmatic filamentary tenuous bubble unless there is something Chandra is not showing, as it was supposed to be a galaxy?

Oct 18, 2018
@cantdrive85
@theredpill

https://michaelsh...id-test/

I wish that you both would read this link, and then afterwards provide an explanation as to what you believe in EU to be an absolute Fact that is unassailable and that is loaded with provable evidence/data. And what IS that evidence.
While I agree that electrical currents, as a source of Energy, are affecting and interacting with Mass in the Universe, I have to disagree with the myth that Venus flew out of Jupiter, or some such thing.
As Fox Mulder might say, "I want to believe".

Oct 18, 2018
This goes back to 1946 using anti aircraft antenna thought to be two galaxies colliding at ζ Cyg

But so far no sight or sign of this galaxy as a galaxy visibly as a galaxy containing stars

Cygnus A was an early target of the Chandra X-ray Observatory. It has been the focus of attention and controversy among astronomers since it was discovered more than fifty years ago. The history of scientists' attempts to come to grips with what is happening in Cygnus A shows the value of observing a source with different types of telescopes
http://chandra.ha...ga1.html

There are no visible ccd images of this galaxy
As even as a radio galaxy it supposedly is still a galaxy with stars?

Oct 18, 2018
Immanuel Velikovsky the last Traditional Catastrophists
Mass in the Universe
And Venus flew out of Jupiter
A psychiatrist and psychoanalyst in finality suffered his catastrophist's catastrophe

As long as you're ready SEU, to take up the mantle, as the sanatorium fills up with detractors keeping these boards Velikovskian free!
Just make sure there are plenty of vacancies, as after all those long nights sitting in darked rooms you will know when it's time to make that call.
In the mean time keep up the good work.

Granville

Oct 18, 2018
@cantdrive85
@theredpill

https://michaelsh...id-test/

I wish that you both would read this link, and then afterwards provide an explanation as to what you believe in EU to be an absolute Fact that is unassailable and that is loaded with provable evidence/data. And what IS that evidence.
While I agree that electrical currents, as a source of Energy, are affecting and interacting with Mass in the Universe, I have to disagree with the myth that Venus flew out of Jupiter, or some such thing.
As Fox Mulder might say, "I want to believe".


*uck me. SEU actually said something intelligent! Wonders will never cease! Well done. Keep it up old chap.

Oct 18, 2018
@cantdrive85
@theredpill

https://michaelsh...id-test/

I wish that you both would read this link, and then afterwards provide an explanation as to what you believe in EU to be an absolute Fact that is unassailable and that is loaded with provable evidence/data. And what IS that evidence.
While I agree that electrical currents, as a source of Energy, are affecting and interacting with Mass in the Universe, I have to disagree with the myth that Venus flew out of Jupiter, or some such thing.
As Fox Mulder might say, "I want to believe".


*uck me. SEU actually said something intelligent! Wonders will never cease! Well done. Keep it up old chap.
.........in the meantime we're still waiting on you for the same.

Oct 18, 2018
"SOFIA data indicate that magnetic fields are trapping and confining dust near the center of the active galaxy, Cygnus A,"

To establish these magnetic fields & isolate them inside the toroid so that the magnetic fields can TRAP & CONFINE dust, there must first be a current source looping around the toroid, but the toroid must form first or there is no pathway for the magnetic fields no matter how much in the way of Birkeland type currents may be available.

This whole theory about this torus has a chicken & egg problem. Which came first, the toroid,or the looping currents being conducted around the toroid? One begets to the other in a frenzy of circular reasoning.


Jeez, just give up mate. This stuff is well beyond grade school science, yes? Which is as far as you got, isn't it you thick b*stard? Lol. You are such a fraud. Do you realise how big a tit you make yourself look? Probably not. Dunning-Kruger syndrome does that to people.

Oct 18, 2018


*uck me. SEU actually said something intelligent! Wonders will never cease! Well done. Keep it up old chap..........in the meantime we're still waiting on you for the same.


Sorry? What are you prattling on about now, you uneducated tosser? What is a half-life Benni? Thick idiot! Want me to link your numerous clangers again, bozo? I've got an absolute shed load of them, you uneducated f***wit. Come on Benni, tell us when you are expecting to graduate from grade/ primary school. Lol. An unlikely event, I'd have thought! IQ of a dead badger, eh, Benni. Useless prick.

Oct 18, 2018
.........in the meantime we're still waiting on you for the same.


Jeez, just give up mate. This stuff is well beyond grade school science, yes? Which is as far as you got, isn't it you thick b*stard? Lol. You are such a fraud. Do you realise how big a tit you make yourself look? Probably not. Dunning-Kruger syndrome does that to people
.........yep, still waiting

Oct 18, 2018
.........in the meantime we're still waiting on you for the same.


Jeez, just give up mate. This stuff is well beyond grade school science, yes? Which is as far as you got, isn't it you thick b*stard? Lol. You are such a fraud. Do you realise how big a tit you make yourself look? Probably not. Dunning-Kruger syndrome does that to people
.........yep, still waiting


Still waiting for what, you uneducated burke? To graduate from primary school? To wear your first pair of long trousers? What exactly are you waiting for, you scientifically illiterate moron? Please do tell us. Use capital letters if it helps.

Oct 18, 2018
Shurmer: " If Newton and Einstein are wrong, I inquired of EU proponent Wallace Thornhill, can you generate spacecraft flight paths that are more accurate than those based on gravitational theory? No, he replied. GPS satellites in orbit around Earth are also dependent on relativity theory,"

No he's full of chit. EU is full of chit too. But...

GPS satellites don't depend on GR, the gross dilated time of the clock is "virtually" never used in the instrumentation making the fractional timing measurements. And don't link to some obscure lame masters thesis showing it does. As for spacecraft flight, bearing calculations would be done on the fly, not using a nominal relativity calculation. Shurmer's a fake.

Oct 18, 2018
GPS satellites don't depend on GR, the gross dilated time of the clock is "virtually" never used in the instrumentation making the fractional timing measurements.


A calculation using General Relativity predicts that the clocks in each GPS satellite should get ahead of ground-based clocks by 45 microseconds per day & 7 for orbit based clocks, the net offset being 38 microseconds, this is for real time dilation effects.

I don't know what you mean by, "GPS satellites don't depend on GR", but the time dilation effects between a clock on the ground & the same clock in orbit is very real.

Oct 18, 2018
@granville
@Benni
I am not versed well enough in EU to call all of it into question. There may be some parts of it that may prove redeeming, and if so, why on earth haven't they worked on it to make it the centerpiece of their theory? Instead, they have been allowing this Talbott nonsense of Venus flying out of Jupiter, etc. and planets being spat out from the Sun.
Somebody has sold them a bill of goods that don't really fit, i'm afraid, and CD et al are getting further away from reality, unless they can get together to put some meat on those EU bones, so to speak. I would like to see CD and the rest 'get with the program' to give their story some actual credibility.
It has been too long and nothing has come of it.

Oct 18, 2018
.........in the meantime we're still waiting on you for the same.


Jeez, just give up mate. This stuff is well beyond grade school science, yes? Which is as far as you got, isn't it you thick b*stard? Lol. You are such a fraud. Do you realise how big a tit you make yourself look? Probably not. Dunning-Kruger syndrome does that to people
.........yep, still waiting


Still waiting for what, you uneducated burke? To graduate from primary school? To wear your first pair of long trousers? What exactly are you waiting for, you scientifically illiterate moron? Please do tell us. Use capital letters if it helps.
says jones

Since you still haven't guessed by now what Benni is waiting for, I will tell you.
Benni is still waiting for you to say something intelligent and useful - something judicious and informational. Instead, you sit there lallygagging and trying to sound brilliant - but you have only come off like a dummy slouching on a chair

Oct 18, 2018
The EU theory is insane, in that, the only way you can get the things Talbott claims were seen, i.e. a clock like feature rising and falling daily in the sky, is by a bizarre "circular polar" orbit at the pole of Saturn. Like a rock being thrown and another smaller rock trailing it. A truly insane orbit.
Thornhill believes this. And the craters on Venus were not detected till after Velikovsky's death. But craters on Venus prove conclusively Venus was not ejected from Jupiter. Venus is a really bizarre planet though, but not a comet, well at least not ejected from Jupiter.

It is fun to imagine planets are ejected from gas giants, and gas giants ejected from the Sun.
But that's not reality, no evidence, not till we see Jupiter or Saturn eject a moon.

Oct 18, 2018
@steel
@Stump, I put that argument in there
That is one still on the table for me, need more data
Yup. still on the table for me as well, but I don't think it was a CME
Interesting BBC Documentary on it here:
going to watch it now. Thanks. I appreciate it

Oct 19, 2018
Quasi-Neutral Plasma

- Radio galaxies are active galaxy nuclei within large elliptical galaxies-
Radio galaxy, quasars, blazars are active galaxy nuclei luminous at radio lengths, with luminosities up to 1039 W between 10 MHz and 100 GHz due to the synchrotron process. The structure emission is determined by the interaction between twin jets and the external medium
This radio emission from radio-active galaxies is synchrotron emission, from radio-emitting plasma containing electrons with relativistic speeds and magnetic fields. Its is quasi-neutral plasma containing protons or positrons https://en.wikipe...o_galaxy

So this is what our active spiralling magnetic field in the elliptical galaxy that is Cygnus A* is contained within its plasmatic bubble of quasi-neutral ions emitting synchrotron-emission in a spiralling magnetic field as Chandra shows an active plasmatic bubble http://chandra.ha...cale.jpg

Oct 19, 2018
In Reality, the reality is that this BH is a plasmatic bubble
http://chandra.ha...cale.jpg

An active quasi-neutral plasmatic bubble
Seemingly is our BH
Its spiralling magnetic field
Is the active quasi-neutral plasmatic bubble
In between its twin jets
In synchrotron emission radiation
From radio-emitting plasma
Electrons with relativistic speeds and magnetic fields

The hunt is on for Cygnus A*s elliptical galaxy, but in the meantime this BH is an active quasi-neutral plasmatic bubble!

Oct 19, 2018
Mass in the Universe and Venus flew out of Jupiter
An active quasi-neutral plasmatic bubble
Seemingly is our BH
Its spiralling magnetic field
Is the active quasi-neutral plasmatic bubble
In between its twin jets
In synchrotron emission radiation
From radio-emitting plasma
Electrons with relativistic speeds and magnetic fields

SEU, from Chandra's imagery, a BH has morphed into the epitome of JDs quasi-neutral plasmatic plasma bubble complete with relativistic polar synchrotron emission magnetic jets!

Reading the first page, The Electric Universe Acid Test, is in another world from the real world of plasmatic plasma bubbles in galactic galaxies as being the main driving force of the electric universe

In short SEU, transmuting BHs to their reality, reveals the electric universe!

Oct 19, 2018
@granville
@Benni
I am not versed well enough in EU to call all of it into question. There may be some parts of it that may prove redeeming, and if so, why on earth haven't they worked on it to make it the centerpiece of their theory? Instead, they have been allowing this Talbott nonsense of Venus flying out of Jupiter, etc. and planets being spat out from the Sun.
Somebody has sold them a bill of goods that don't really fit, i'm afraid, and CD et al are getting further away from reality, unless they can get together to put some meat on those EU bones, so to speak. I would like to see CD and the rest 'get with the program' to give their story some actual credibility.
It has been too long and nothing has come of it.


Agree, there are a host of problems with EU. A large chunk of it comes to the forefront when they deviate from their original concepts & go wandering off into the weeds with the issues you brought up.

Oct 19, 2018
> granDy
The hunt is on for Cygnus A*s elliptical galaxy, but in the meantime this BH is an active quasi-neutral plasmatic bubble!


Not sure what you mean. I think you're saying that which the article states to be a BH is in fact NOT a BH but is a "plasmatic bubble", am I reading you correctly?

Oct 19, 2018
I wish that you both would read this link, and then afterwards provide an explanation as to what you believe in EU to be an absolute Fact that is unassailable and that is loaded with provable evidence/data. And what IS that evidence.

It is obvious that Shermer is a pseudo-skeptic and 'The Scientific American' should refrain from publishing opinion pieces containing here-say and false claims.

Oct 19, 2018
Too All the World it is a Plasma Bubble
> granDy
The hunt is on for Cygnus A*s elliptical galaxy, but in the meantime this BH is an active quasi-neutral plasmatic bubble!

Benni> Not sure what you mean. I think you're saying that which the article states to be a BH is in fact NOT a BH but is a "plasmatic bubble", am I reading you correctly?

Benni, Chandra's Image looks like a plasma bubble, the spiralling magnetic field fields and jets fit Wikipedia's description of a plasma bubble and it fits an x-ray galaxy!
Glowing in this Chandra image is a red hot Plasma bubble
Quasi-neutral plasmatic plasma bubble complete with relativistic polar synchrotron emission magnetic jets
http://chandra.ha...cale.jpg

Oct 19, 2018
@cd
It is obvious that Shermer is a pseudo-skeptic and 'The Scientific American' should refrain from publishing opinion pieces containing here-say and false claims
1- it isn't here-say to report data given during a conference or presented in an interview
in point of fact, it can be considered expert reporting or review, and it also falls under the following:
(1) Present Sense Impression.
(3) Then-Existing Mental, Emotional, or Physical Condition
(6) Records of a Regularly Conducted Activity (D) and (E)

see also rule 807

https://www.law.c...rule_803

2- it is classified as a false claim when you present your opinion as factual and it's directly refuted by the evidence, which can be prosecuted under US defamation law

Oct 19, 2018
Cygnus A* an elliptical galaxy

An elliptical galaxy is a galaxy having an approximately ellipsoidal shape and a smooth, nearly featureless image, elliptical galaxies are more three-dimensional, without much structure, and their stars are in somewhat random orbits around the centre. They are one of the three main classes of galaxy described by Edwin Hubble in his Hubble sequence and 1936 work The Realm of the Nebulae
The plot thickens - Elliptical galaxies range in size from tens of millions to over one hundred trillion stars.
https://en.wikipe...l_galaxy

Oct 19, 2018
Just a black dot on a photographic plate

Now we know why Cygnus A* is hard to find, as it a featureless globular galaxies where the stars randomly orbit with no structure which is why the black and white image is just a black dot on the photographic plate.
This galaxy is obviously a random maze of stars and tenuous plasma and plasma bubbles because this is a radio-galaxy
The structure is not there to form a singularity!

Oct 19, 2018
A BH is the solution of last resort

As it a mathematical entity
Of singularity of construction
Where it has no atomic structure
Has infinite density
But not infinite gravity
An so by definition
With no gravity
Does not exist
As theory predicts
Of singularity of construction

A Pulsar has more gravity than a BH, if a BH has an accretion disk; a Pulsar has an accretion disk
Pulsars by virtue of their greater gravity are more able to attract matter and an accretion disk feeds their pulsar because a Blazer galaxy, another radio galaxy
We live in the real world of stars in galaxies of realistic alternatives to these singularities, because for what we are observing are not singularities, so not pure BHs in the mathematical sense!

Oct 19, 2018
Too All the World it is a Plasma Bubble
> granDy
The hunt is on for Cygnus A*s elliptical galaxy, but in the meantime this BH is an active quasi-neutral plasmatic bubble!

Benni> Not sure what you mean. I think you're saying that which the article states to be a BH is in fact NOT a BH but is a "plasmatic bubble", am I reading you correctly?

Benni, Chandra's Image looks like a plasma bubble, the spiralling magnetic field fields and jets fit Wikipedia's description of a plasma bubble and it fits an x-ray galaxy!
Glowing in this Chandra image is a red hot Plasma bubble
Quasi-neutral plasmatic plasma bubble complete with relativistic polar synchrotron emission magnetic jets
http://chandra.ha...cale.jpg
says granville

A plasmatic bubble in the centre could very well be the object that is confining the dust within the torus. It doesn't need to BE a Black Hole at all. A natural bubble.

-contd-


Oct 19, 2018
@granville
I think you have come up with the right solution, gran.

From the article: "Magnetic fields are illustrated trapping the dust in the torus. These magnetic fields could be helping power the black hole hidden in the galaxy's core by confining the dust in the torus and keeping it close enough to be gobbled up by the hungry black hole."

Consider a soap bubble laying on a wet plate. That bubble is drawing/attracting other bubbles, water and soap to itself within the plate. The bigger the soap bubble, the more magnetic attraction it has, and the smaller bubbles will slide toward it if the plate is a bit concave, similar to the shape of Space within a gravity well that contains an object. The other bubbles will join the biggest one and they will occupy the same space.
A 'torus' forms around the bubble, which has gotten much bigger after joining with all the others. The torus supports the Bubble and keeps it intact until the Bubble bursts, releasing some of its content.

Oct 19, 2018
Chandra's last spare
And now SEU, as Chandra has found its bearings, it is observing plasma sloshing around in merging galaxies
The need for Chandra mark 2 is obviously overdue, as Chandra is on its last spare; it seems perfect observing, for what are plasmatic bubbles
Unless there are mark2 plans just when Chandra is about unveil the definitive bomb shell its last spare will go caput with no backup plan

But then again SEU, Chandra's always been on its last spare for as long as anyone can remember!

Oct 19, 2018
@granville
I think you have come up with the right solution, gran.
........Egg, no, not "gran".......granDy !!!!!

A plasmatic bubble in the centre could very well be the object that is confining the dust within the torus. It doesn't need to BE a Black Hole at all. A natural bubble.
.......makes more sense, otherwise what keeps the BH from tearing it apart almost like in a tidal force? What chance would magnetic lines of force have against all the gravity that purportedly exists at the surface of a BH continually tugging on that torus of dust?

OK, we can take it into consideration.


Oct 19, 2018
That is true, granville. In fact, all 4 seem to be on their last leg, and yet, there is some life left in the old dears.
I do hope that the ESA and others will increase their production of space telescopes. The US seems to be struggling a bit with their funding of necessary equipment to replace the current models.

Oct 19, 2018
-contd-
@granDy
@Benni
@interested parties

I had composed another comment, but it seems that I have lost it, so I will try again.
This mercurial rise of a Plasmatic Bubble in the space where an alleged Black Hole is now nevermore - just may have a good supply of gases within it, as well as dust.
If there is any possibility that this BUBBLE would break at some point, it could prove to be disastrous for the near and far neighborhood in that galaxy. But, the JETS which have been mentioned in the article, just MAY be RELEASE VALVEs of sorts, so that when too full, the release valves open and excess gas and dust shoot out.
Conjecture, of course. But it does seem to conform to the natural order, as well as the Law of Conservation, yes?

Oct 19, 2018

the JETS which have been mentioned in the article, just MAY be RELEASE VALVEs of sorts


Egg, some interesting thoughts here:

https://phys.org/...nts.html

"The process may cause enormous bursts of gamma-ray radiation thought to be associated with supernova explosions and the formation of ultra-dense neutron stars and black holes. "A gamma-ray burst in our Milky Way galaxy,"

Read more at: https://phys.org/...nts.html#jCp


Oct 19, 2018
......more reading here, just a bit closer to earth about the same thing thing.

https://phys.org/...tml#nRlv

Oct 19, 2018
Ahaaa So you and granville already knew about it even last March of this year. I missed those somehow.
But the main thing is that I now know also.
And thanks for the links, Benni

Oct 19, 2018
There is of course a current. It's not an electrical current, however; it's a current of charged particles. It's the torus. The torus is rotating because it's in orbit; if it weren't rotating it would just fall into the black hole. That rotation is the current.

It works kind of like a motor with field coils.

Oct 20, 2018
Electrons in processional motion

And so back to this magnetic field, there is no magnetic field without an electric field in motion, which is the electrons precessional electric field in motion
But in the real world of gas powered electrical generators, require electrons with their electrical fields in field coils to be electrons in motion to induce current in stators
And so it is with precessional electrons, though gyroscopically fixed in the vacuum, are electrons in precessional motion, so produce electric currents, inducing magnetic fields in its self, the electron, which is the electrons magnetic field and dipole moment.

Oct 20, 2018
@granville
@Benni
This Torus - if it is surrounding an EM 'plasmatic bubble' then could the torus be the outer perimeter of a closed Galaxy that IS the bubble where Stars live? And could radio, gamma and X-rays be emitted from the Torus as the Stars within it explode as supernovae? Such a closed system seems to make sense.

Oct 20, 2018
I have sometimes wondered if Quasars happen because the torus gains enough mass, density and pressure to start fusion itself and become a 'Ring Star' that while constrained by gravitational pull the star would not fling itself outwards, being too deep in the gravity well of a SMBH, and the pressure on the Inside of this Ring Star would easily push an overabundance of mass towards the central SMBH, leading to the jets and other effects we have seen.

I know there was an article here on P.O that showed the possibility of a toroidal black hole forming and how it would separate into 2 pairs of binary black holes all co-orbiting, or, possibly re-joining as a single for part of them and throwing one or more of them via gravitational slingshot effect at high velocity out of the galaxy.

Oct 20, 2018
@granville
@Benni
This Torus - if it is surrounding an EM 'plasmatic bubble' then could the torus be the outer perimeter of a closed Galaxy that IS the bubble where Stars live? And could radio, gamma and X-rays be emitted from the Torus as the Stars within it explode as supernovae? Such a closed system seems to make sense.


Well, it's an interesting thought I guess.

At this point I'm still trying to figure out how conditions in outer space manage to form a perfect toroid of a solenoid structure that can do work like a solenoid in an earthbound auto starting system, like the one I just fixed on my garden tractor.

Oct 20, 2018
There is of course a current. It's not an electrical current, however; it's a current of charged particles. It's the torus. The torus is rotating because it's in orbit; if it weren't rotating it would just fall into the black hole. That rotation is the current.

It works kind of like a motor with field coils.


Oh come on, how does a solenoid work with anything other than steady unbroken electron flow on the outer surface core? You're trying to tell us ION flow can do the same thing? Alright schneibo, tell us about ion flow in a motor with field coils?

Oct 20, 2018
Magnetized plasma turbulence

Plasmas, gas-like collections of ions and electrons, make up an estimated 99 percent of the visible matter in the universe, including the sun, the stars, and the gaseous medium that permeates the space in between. Most of these plasmas, including the solar wind that constantly flows out from the sun and sweeps through the solar system, exist in a turbulent state..
https://phys.org/...sma.html

SEU, this article is demonstrating all we see are plasma as of 99 percent of the visible matter in the universe. Plasma and the sun are one of the same
Taking the premise singularities do not exist this galactic star is like ours, made out of plasma so it has to be a variation of the plasmatic starry theme

Our sun is an 800,000ml plasmatic ball of hydrogen SEU, as this is the scale and mass of the plasma involved at the galactic centre

Oct 20, 2018
Natures Starry Plasmatic Theme!

A starry plasmatic theme is most likely the right track, as 99% of the mass in the vacuum is plasma.
Where 99.99% of starry fusion exist as Natures Starry Plasmatic Theme, where this plasmatic starry theme has been used consistently for at least 15billion years in the vacuum, with no break till we create a singularity that cannot and does not exist to the extent that any starry plasmatic bubble of thousands or millions of solar mass's can no longer be following Natures Starry Plasmatic Theme, but now has to be a singularity that does not exist, so like the invisible cat in the hat, is like a singularity, cannot be seen so does not exist.

All that exists in the vacuum is Natures Starry Plasmatic Theme

Oct 20, 2018
Energy Occupying the Vacuum

The energy of fusion:-,pulsars, quasar's, stars, the wind in the willows, moon beams of reflection, the sun on our backs, synchrotron-radiation, solar wind, cosmic rays, solar neutrinos, gamma-ray, x-rays and on it goes
All these and more owe their energy to Natures Starry Plasmatic Theme!
Assuming singularities do not exist, the energy occupying the vacuum is the PROTON, which by definition is an ION, and so PLASMA, occupying 99% of the VACUUM, which then goes on to make plasmatic stars
This singularity is not a singularity but a STAR, utilising a variation on nature's starry theme.

Natures Starry Plasmatic Theme!

Oct 20, 2018
Energy Occupying

The energy of fusion:-,pulsars, quasar's, stars, the wind in the willows, moon beams of reflection, the sun on our backs, synchrotron-radiation, solar wind, cosmic rays, solar neutrinos, gamma-ray, x-rays and on it goes
All these and more owe their energy to Natures Starry Plasmatic Theme!
Assuming singularities do not exist, the energy occupying the vacuum is the PROTON, which by definition is an ION, and so PLASMA, occupying 99% of the VACUUM, which then goes on to make plasmatic stars
This singularity is not a singularity but a STAR, utilising a variation on nature's starry theme.

Natures Starry Plasmatic Theme!
says our most favorite Bard

Singularities cannot exist. Only the magick of Plasmatic Bubbles fill the Cosmos - bringing the fluidic songs of Energies to Life with their Power and Majesty and their life-sustaining clouds of joyous electrons and pristine protons - laughing their way through the ______.

@granDy
Please finish this

Oct 21, 2018
SEU, in time that day will come as you will be remembered in these mortal words
In memoriam of the ionic plasmatic protonic pristine proton

This infinite vacuous vacuum that is space

Singularities in their existence
Although mathematical in entity
Have taketh mans human kind of mind
Of ethereal thought to extremes
That in the blackness that is vacuum
The energy of the vacuum the singular proton
This pristine protonic proton
In its positivity of charge
In isolatory of existence being ionic
Doth a plasma maketh
And in this ethereal singularity existence
That hath created protonic human thought
As being ionic and there for plasma
Hath created natures starry fusion
In the trillionths of protonic creations
In the style and in the vacuum that is space
As nature starry plasmatic fusion theme
Light the blackness with its light of plasmatic fusion
All within the inky cosmic vacuum
We will in the end all return to this
Infinite vacuous vacuum that is space

Oct 21, 2018
Thank you Muttering Mike, for taking some of your valuable time in your vacuum, in reading this ionic plasmatic protonic pristine proton!
Good luck....

Oct 21, 2018
the energy occupying the vacuum is the PROTON, which by definition is an ION
.........well, kind of I guess, that is if you want to think of it as being the nucleus of hydrogen H1, depends on if you're associating it with chemical or nuclear reactions.

Oct 21, 2018
The first Hydrogen atom or the Circular Creation Argument
.
the energy occupying the vacuum is the PROTON, by definition is an ION
Benni> well, kind of I guess, that is if you want to think of it as being the nucleus of hydrogen H1, depends on if you're associating it with chemical or nuclear reactions.

Benni, It's the first proton before it meets with a lonely scrumptious electron and they go and elope in Gretna Green, becoming the first hydrogen atom.
The secret is not enquiring where they came from - just accept there here and not somewhere else or we would be not be here!

Their self sustaining and replicating as once the first Hydrogen atom materialises, otherwise the debate of how many exist leads to how many were created, to create one is to create two is to create three or a Circular Argument into a specific amount! A specific amount is one specific amount, which lead to two specific amounts or the Circular Argument! They can only be self replicating!

Oct 21, 2018
Georges Lemaitre's cosmic egg, is the Circular Creation Argument

And as if by fate we come full circle "Magnetic fields may be the key to black hole activity",

Namely blackholes, or Georges Lemaitre's cosmic egg, is the Circular Creation Argument
A specific amount was created which leads to two specific amounts or as Georges Lemaitre's calls them cosmic eggs as to create one cosmic egg is to create two cosmic eggs, then three cosmic eggs!
Otherwise we get into the the Circular Creation Argument!

Oct 21, 2018

Thank you, granville - for that melodious ending.

Singularities cannot exist. Only the magick of Plasmatic Bubbles fill the Cosmos - bringing the fluidic Songs of Energies to Life with their Power and Majesty and their life-sustaining Clouds of joyous electrons and pristine protons - laughing their way through the infinite vacuous vacuum that is Space.

(The last 6 words contributed by our favorite Bard - granville of the Shires.)

Oct 21, 2018
Magnetized plasma turbulence

Plasmas, gas-like collections of ions and electrons, make up an estimated 99 percent of the visible matter in the universe, including the sun, the stars, and the gaseous medium that permeates the space in between. Most...plasmas, including the solar wind that constantly flows out from the sun and sweeps through the solar system, exist in a turbulent state..
https://phys.org/...sma.html

SEU, this article is demonstrating all we see are plasma as of 99 percent of the visible matter in the universe. Plasma and the sun are..the same
Taking the premise singularities do not exist this galactic star is like ours, made out of plasma so(**) a variation of the plasmatic starry theme

Our sun is an 800,000ml plasmatic ball of hydrogen SEU, as this is the scale and mass of the plasma involved at the galactic centre
says granville

I quite agree, and it makes far more sense than a hungry BH.

Oct 21, 2018
Benni, It's the first proton before it meets with a lonely scrumptious electron and they go and elope in Gretna Green, becoming the first hydrogen atom.
The secret is not enquiring where they came from - just accept there here and not somewhere else or we would be not be here!


>granDy

Aright, aright, I give you that one......I have no idea how to argue with that !!!!!! No wonder your moniker needs addending.

Oct 21, 2018
@granville
@Benni

Common sense, reason and Logic should be the firmest basis in the scientific quest for Truth.
But then why has science strayed so far from these three basics and gone off the deep end, so to speak, to bring about a BELIEF in an unseen 'object' that is destructive to all Matter/Energy within its grasp, where even those Stars and worlds that it has yet to engage are in mortal danger as the object enlarges and its strength increases.

If such an object as Black Holes exist, then it would have been made to exist BY INTELLIGENT DESIGN, for the express purpose of attracting, destroying and recycling spent Stars and other forms of Matter, and for the reasons of maintenance and some modicum of cleanliness in the Universe. And yet, the BH doesn't seem to differentiate spent and newborn Stars, allegedly attracting and drawing them into its Event Horizon first before consuming them.
As such, it could be said that there is no purpose other than destruction of Matter

Oct 21, 2018
-contd-
It is as though the emptiness of Space has become a 'conveyer belt' that brings Stars and planets towards this "Black Hole" of destruction where Matter is broken up and reduced to its smallest particles by gravitational collapse, and then whatever Energies are left will be spewed out in jets.
IF such Black Holes exist with such capacities, the similarities to the creation of Life by Intelligent Design are clearly just another example of Life and Death and the recycling of the bodies, whether human, animal, plants, and even Stars.
In short, Matter is expendable, even if Matter itself cannot be destroyed - but only changed in form.
Space, as a 'conveyer belt' makes sense to me, which is the reason for the motions of Stars and other Matter around a Star system - around a galaxy - and around the Universe. Motion means Life - therefore, the Universe is alive and information is never lost.

Oct 21, 2018
Space, as a 'conveyer belt' makes sense to me, which is the reason for the motions of Stars and other Matter around a Star system - around a galaxy - and around the Universe. Motion means Life - therefore, the Universe is alive and information is never lost.


It's called ENTROPY where the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is ensconced inside the Mass/Energy Equivalence Principle of Special Relativity. No magic, just follow those two immutable laws of physics & the continual recycling of mass & energy is no mystery.

Oct 21, 2018
-contd-
Conversely, a Plasmatic Bubble within a Torus wouldn't necessarily require to be created by Intelligent Design as it doesn't appear to be destructive of Matter as a Black Hole is said to be.
The Torus with its magnetic field seems to be more of - a cradle, a crib where newborn Stars were formed/created, and are fed dust particles to grow in size until large enough to take their place in the Universe.
I am projecting these ideas, of course, from a partly-human POV, and as a scholar and an interested observer. I am also interested in the thoughts of humans who have similar thoughts to mine.

Oct 21, 2018
Tacit Knowledge in the Shires
SEU> If such an object as Black Holes exist, then it would have been made to exist BY INTELLIGENT DESIGN, for the express purpose of attracting, destroying and recycling spent Stars and other forms of Matter

This is what I thought, blackholes had morphed into, but now almost anything is a blackhole now a days,
The first problem you have to get past Bennies half a neutron, then as a singularity there is no atomic structure.

As you walk through the mill towns of Yorkshire, a down to earth earthiness abounds, because some of these mill towns are grim SEU and they instil in you a modicum of common sense!
It is some you are going to have to live with, Singularities, BHs, Time Warps, Warped Vacuum do not exist SEU
This is something that is only known Tacitly SEU, it is not leant at university and it is difficult to define as it is picked up from person to person as it cannot be taught

Now the true search for galactic central stars begins!

Oct 21, 2018
Space, as a 'conveyer belt' makes sense to me, which is the reason for the motions of Stars and other Matter around a Star system - around a galaxy - and around the Universe. Motion means Life - therefore, the Universe is alive and information is never lost.


It's called ENTROPY where the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is ensconced inside the Mass/Energy Equivalence Principle of Special Relativity. No magic, just follow those two immutable laws of physics & the continual recycling of mass & energy is no mystery.

says Benni

I STILL haven't gotten around to finding a book on Laws of Thermodynamics at University. It is very frustrating to know that YOU and granville have all that knowledge in your heads and, as yet, I have very little of it.
But I will make a point to purchase that book and others with regard to the study of Plasma Physics and Particle Physics, and I MUST review my maths. My computer doesn't have the capacity to write maths equations.

Oct 21, 2018
Stars born in out-flows of BHs
Physicsworld could not comprehend outflows with singularities simultaneously!

Stars are forming in material blasted out by B. using the European Space Observatory's Very Large Telescope BHs exist at the centre of galaxies emit extremely powerful outflows of energy and material devouring surrounding matter. the University of Cambridge in the UK, used the VLT's MUSE and X-shooter instruments studying colossal jets emitting from a galaxy's black hole 600million Lyrs identified infant stellar population within the outflow stars a few millions yrs old. the outflows' and fast-moving material, make young stars hotter and brighter than typical stars and travelling at high velocity away from the galaxy centre. "The stars that form in the wind close to the galaxy centre." The discovery, in Nature,
https://physicswo...entists/

Oct 21, 2018
Tacit Knowledge in the Shires
SEU> If such an object as Black Holes exist, then it would have been made to exist BY INTELLIGENT DESIGN, for the express purpose of attracting, destroying and recycling spent Stars and other forms of Matter

This is what I thought, blackholes had morphed into, but now almost anything is a blackhole now a days,
The first problem(**)

As you walk through the mill towns of Yorkshire, a down to earth earthiness abounds, because some of these mill towns are grim SEU and they instil in you a modicum of common sense!
Singularities, BHs,..
This is something that is only known Tacitly SEU, it is not leant at university and is difficult to define as it is picked up from person to person as it cannot be taught
says granville

There are Ancient Memories of past events, even events long before one and one's parents were born, and those memories are teachable if only one is sensitive to them. Most humans are too insensitive to recognise it

Oct 21, 2018
The illogical BH

Even though physicsworld published this article some time back, make no bones about it, physicsworld made it known, in no uncertain terms, that the point concerning outflows concerning BHs was not a point for discussion, as a singularity, matter passing inside its event horizon could not escape and could not be seen so could not be defined in any way.

So there you are SEU, Benni - the human animal in its human emotion, a factual conundrum - When you have experienced the illogically opposites the illogical BH hole becomes logical

Oct 21, 2018
This Monastic Life Style

And just when I get the impression I live the life of some monastic monk, this monastic life style, free from the perils of life's troubles, I seem to get the impression this monastic life style is vastly more in tune with the real world, that everybody else inhabits, but who cannot see it.

Oct 21, 2018
A BH is a singularity where nothing on this earth escapes!

The matter in the outflows is contained of pristine protons SEU, which goes into the 25,000Lyr Fermi clouds above and below the host galaxy!
As physicsworld implied, these out flows are not in all reality, coming from a BH.
The physics community is quite properly sticking to rigid dogma. A BH is a singularity and consequently once entered nothing on this earth escapes SEU.

So if physicsworld says this SEU! You can rest easy in your mind in the safe and certain knowledge that whatever is at our galactic centres is not a BH.

Oct 21, 2018
@granville
From your link:
"Stars born as su..."

"Stars are forming within the material blasted out by supermassive black holes. This extreme-environment stellar formation has been seen by astronomers using the European Space Observatory's (ESO) Very Large Telescope (VLT). Supermassive black holes exist at the centre of most galaxies and emit extremely powerful outflows of energy and material as they devour surrounding matter. "Astronomers have thought for a while that conditions within these outflows could be right for star formation," says team leader Roberto Maiolino of the University of Cambridge in the UK, "but no one has seen it actually happening as it's a very difficult observation."

First, they say, "This extreme-environment stellar formation has been seen by astronomers...."

And then they say in the same paragraph "but no one has seen it actually happening....."

WHEN will they at least WAIT until the event(s) have actually been SEEN to be happening

Oct 21, 2018
OK (starting to regain my composure).

@granville
The photo at the top of the page in your Physicsworld link shows what the BH event SHOULD look like, IF it was real. It's a nice photo, but only represents what these scientists only imagine to be, and nothing more.
I really don't see why Nature or the Creator would make such a mechanism that devours perfectly good Stars, only to spew the material out again to form new Stars.
Reason, common sense, and Logic did not go into such a proposal, if you ask me.

Oct 21, 2018
The stars forming in the outflows where the outflows have not been seen!

I saw that bit where it said it had not been seen, so now SEU, you have factual evidence from the respected journal of science, Physicsworld - these out-flows have not been seen
Sounds like a similar invisible monster 25,000Lyrs in our galaxy

A BH with its outflows
In spin axis plasmatic outflow
Do starry starlets in pristine protons make
In these monstrous outflows and jets
In distant galactic centres
Observed in research of Cambridge scholars
Observed on photographic plate
But no actual image of these jets
Nor outflows not one solitary hair be seen
In this singularity of hole
And that SE of U is because
This is a singularity of hole so monstrous
A BH of such singularity
As nothing on this earth escapes
So this is why my friend
These outflows are invisible
They simply can't be seen

Oct 21, 2018
OK (starting to regain my composure).


..........from this I suppose:

First, they say, "This extreme-environment stellar formation has been seen by astronomers...."

And then they say in the same paragraph "but no one has seen it actually happening....."

WHEN will they at least WAIT until the event(s) have actually been SEEN to be happening


Most who identify as ASTRONOMERS are in fact just Pop-Cosmologists. And mostly what this bunch does is twist observations to fit pet theories.

By this point of the Comments section I'm seriously starting to wonder about this TORUS drawing at the top of the page. I think maybe it's been exaggerated in a way that fits conditions they want as opposed to what is really there. For example, we know there is no BH there, therefore any attributes of it's formation & status cannot be the end result of such a structure, else where is SgrA*'s torus?

Oct 21, 2018
Benni all the this factual BH evidence boils down to "They simply can't be seen"
Is it any wonder if you have ever wondered, in singularities it always comes down to that invisible cat in the invisible hat
I always thought there was more substance in BHs as they appeared to have now been defined, they simply can't be seen except in our imagination Benni, don't dream of singularities, like Alice in Wonderland their just a dream!

Oct 21, 2018
This is kinda like watching Godzilla vs. Mothra.

Oct 21, 2018
This is kinda like watching Godzilla vs. Mothra.


Yeah, like you & RC having that food fight over on that other thread.

Oct 21, 2018
This is kinda like watching Godzilla vs. Mothra.

Wait, who's who?

Oct 21, 2018
This is kinda like watching Godzilla vs. Mothra.

Wait, who's who?


Take your pick, they're inter-changeable, neither are real, just like BHs with infinite density at the core of a finite mass, can't be real.

Oct 21, 2018
OK (starting to regain my composure).


..........from this I suppose:

First, they say, "This extreme-environment stellar formation has been seen by astronomers...."

And then they say in the same paragraph "but no one has seen it actually happening....."

WHEN will they at least WAIT until the event(s) have actually been SEEN to be happy...


Most who identify as ASTRONOMERS are in fact just Pop-Cosmologists. And mostly what this bunch does is twist observations to fit pet theories.

By this point of the Comments section I'm seriously starting to wonder about this TORUS drawing at the top of the page. I think maybe it's been exaggerated in a way that fits conditions they want as opposed to what is really there. For example, we know there is no BH there, therefore any attributes of it's formation & status cannot be the end result of such a structure, else where is SgrA*'s torus?


It is quite a letdown, Benni. Almost assumed the foetal position

Oct 21, 2018
@Benni
@granville
Perhaps Benni is correct, in that the drawing up above is meant as a ruse - of what I have no clue. There is also the possibility that they are attempting to move away from the idea of a Black Hole and move into something that they have discovered as a better fit for all concerned. They might not want to say it outright and be made fun of in the scientific community, especially those who haven't caught on yet. A little subterfuge, perhaps?

And, I never did like the idea of infinite density at the core of a finite object like a BH. Especially one that allegedly spews out jets of Matter. I assume that is to relieve pressure. There is nothing worse than a gassy Black Hole.

Oct 22, 2018
@Da Schneib & gculpex
It's like a movie. You know it's going to be a disaster before it even starts. You prepare yourself for the worst and it's bad. But then it gets even worse, much worse.....

@SEU
Perhaps Benni is correct...


You are too kind.

Either that or delusional.
Wait a sec.
Aren't you a wormhole-spotting, alien communicating telepath?

LOL

I rest my case.

Oct 22, 2018
Wormhole spotting, alien communicating telepath? Who me? Yes..Absolutely, and proud of it too.
But you seem terribly bitter, ojorf. Why?

You really should learn to accept the things that are, and not bitsch, moan and gripe about the things over which you have no control. And thank God that you are not in control, ojorf, else you would most probably be an Adolf Hitler-type who hates diversity, and would demand that everyone be the same and believe in the same things as you.
It appears that anyone who believes differently from your beliefs has to be delusional. You must be living in the same house as Captain Chickenshit, and he can't stand diverse opinions and beliefs either.
But why even try to get my attention, ojorf, if you think that i'm delusional. Perhaps YOU are just a nutcase fuitloop with nothing better to do than to try to change anyone's opinions and beliefs.
Tell us - do you plan to vote for Hillary or another Democrat in 2020? Now THAT is REALLY delusional. LOL

Oct 22, 2018
Oh wait ojorf. I have seen your kind on TV with the mob mentality - beating up on people just because those other people are Conservative Republicans or just plain Republicans with whom you disagree as to their political views. And I suppose that you are a sign-carrying #MeToo type of Feminist who hates Christians and Jews, but will tolerate murderous Muslims in the US, yes?
And, of course, your pride is hurt because someone else has abilities/gifts that YOU don't have. And you're burning with envy, aren't you, ojorf? So you have made up your mind that those who are able to see that which you cannot, are delusional.
We certainly hope that you never change, ojorf. There will always be room for people like you in this world, as without people like you, there would be nobody left to laugh at.

Oct 22, 2018
Oh, dear. When will you ever get anything correct in any of your posts?

Didn't realize you were into conspiracy theories as well, go figure.

Oct 22, 2018
Of course it's into conspiracy theories, @Ojorf, it believes the oldest one of all.

Oct 22, 2018
Do you plan to vote for Hillary or another Democrat in 2020?

Better than the current fruit loop that wants his name on everything.

Oct 22, 2018
Backtracking out of BHs
SEU>@Benni
@granville
Perhaps Benni is correct, in that the drawing up above is meant as a ruse - of what I have no clue. There is also the possibility that they are attempting to move away from the idea of a Black Hole and move into something that they have discovered as a better fit for all concerned. They might not want to say it outright and be made fun of in the scientific community, especially those who haven't caught on yet. A little subterfuge, perhaps?

SEU, to use one of my favourite phrases, the blackholes advocates are Backtracking
It will be interesting to see how these advocates extract themselves out of this BH conundrum

Oct 22, 2018
Backtracking out of BHs
SEU>@Benni
@granville
Perhaps Benni is correct, in that the drawing up above is meant as a ruse - of what I have no clue. There is also the possibility that they are attempting to move away from the idea of a Black Hole and move into something that they have discovered as a better fit for all concerned. They might not want to say it outright and be made fun of in the scientific community, especially those who haven't caught on yet. A little subterfuge, perhaps?

SEU, to use one of my favourite phrases, the blackholes advocates are Backtracking
It will be interesting to see how these advocates extract themselves out of this BH conundrum


You bet they're backtracking. Remember when it was all about gravitational collapse creating infinite gravity at the center of their precious star? More & more you see they are no longer talking about infinite gravity & instead are just referring to the singularity as being infinitely dense.

Oct 22, 2018
Do you plan to vote for Hillary or another Democrat in 2020?

Better than the current fruit loop that wants his name on everything.
says gculpex

Sorry you feel that way about the best President the US has ever had in the 20th and 21st centuries. Perhaps you don't like the idea of higher raises in pay for workers; the fact that North Korea is not much of a threat to the US/southeast Asia anymore; jobs coming back to the States; and the median household income raised for those who want to work; the future wall to secure America's southern border; the stop markets rise after Trump's won the election; Law and Order; Socialism/Marxism will have to wait for another time to take control of the US; and so many other good things happening under the Trump admin.

Odd that I've never heard of Trump wanting his name on everything. Can you provide proof of it?

Oct 22, 2018
@granville
@Benni
Backtracking on their basic Morphology of Black Holes, it is. Infinite Density is also a faerie tale that had grown legs, which I'm quite certain that the scientists who put up this doctrine will attempt to flee from its heavy bottom. LOL

Oct 23, 2018
@granville
@Benni
Backtracking on their basic Morphology of Black Holes, it is. Infinite Density is also a faerie tale that had grown legs, which I'm quite certain that the scientists who put up this doctrine will attempt to flee from its heavy bottom


Egg, these are not scientists putting up up this "doctrine", they are Pop-Cosmologists who never in their Pop-Cosmology careers ever seen a Differential Equation they could solve, just think Stumpo or Schneibo or jonesy & you have your typical Pop-Cosmologist.

But your right, this bunch has been trying to extricate themselves from the conundrum they created for themselves associating infinite density & gravity at the singularity of their holy grail, BHs. And when you call them on it they just move right into the usual name calling rants screaming how YOU don't comprehend SCIENCE. Well hell's bells, I'd like for them to explain the IMMUTABLE LAW of PHYSICS for infinite density at the core of ANY finite stellar mass.

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