Gas mileage up a gallon since early '90s

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Credit: Scott Meltzer/public domain

Despite advancements in fuel-saving technologies over the last 25 years, on-road fuel economy for all vehicles is up only one mile per gallon during that time.

In an update to research conducted two years ago, Michael Sivak and Brandon Schoettle of the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute say that actual, on-road fuel economy for the entire fleet of vehicles (including cars, trucks, buses and motorcycles) has improved from 16.9 mpg in 1991 to 17.9 mpg in 2015.

"One fundamental problem with improving the average fuel economy of the on-road fleet is that improvements in fuel economy for new vehicles take a long time to substantially influence fuel economy of the entire on-road fleet," said Sivak, a research professor at UMTRI. "This is the case because it takes many years to turn over the fleet."

The study documented and analyzed the annual changes in actual fuel economy of vehicles on U.S. roads from 1923 to 2015 by using information about distances driven and fuel consumed to calculate fuel economy of the overall fleet and of different classes of vehicles.

The researchers found that fuel economy of the entire fleet actually decreased from 14 mpg in 1923 to 11.9 mpg in 1973, but then rapidly increased starting in 1974.

"After the 1973 oil embargo, manufacturers achieved major improvements in fuel economy," Sivak said. "However, the slope of the improvement has decreased substantially since 1991."

Fuel economy of all light-duty vehicles (cars, pickup trucks, vans, SUVs) improved 52 percent from 1973 to 1991 (from 12.9 mpg to 19.6 mpg), but only 12 percent since (to 22 mpg), Sivak and Schoettle say.

According to the study, fuel economy for cars improved from 13.4 mpg in 1973 to 21.2 mpg in 1991, but reached only 23.9 mpg by 2015. For light trucks (pickups, vans, SUVs), the numbers were 9.7 mpg in 1966, 17 mpg in 1991 and 17.3 mpg in 2015. Medium- and heavy-duty trucks showed modest improvement from 5.6 mpg in 1966 to 6.4 mpg in 2015.

The researchers say the focus should not necessarily be on classes of vehicles with the lowest , such as medium- and heavy-duty trucks and buses, which have alternative societal measures that are relevant (e.g., ton-miles per gallon and passenger-miles per gallon, respectively).

"Instead, the focus should be on the least-efficient vehicles within each class," Sivak said.

For example, an improvement from 40 mpg to 41 mpg for a vehicle driven 12,000 miles per year saves 7 gallons of fuel a year. However, an improvement from 15 mpg to 16 mpg for a vehicle driven the same amount of miles saves 50 gallons of fuel a year.


Explore further

Little progress since early '90s for gas mileage of vehicles on the road

More information: Study abstract:¬†On-Road Fuel Economy of Vehicles in the United States: 1923-2015, www.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/SW … Abstract_English.pdf
Citation: Gas mileage up a gallon since early '90s (2017, March 2) retrieved 19 May 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2017-03-gas-mileage-gallon-early-90s.html
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Mar 02, 2017
Gas mileage up a gallon since early '90s


Auto prices have doubled.

Not worth the cost.

Mar 02, 2017
According to a Freakonomics article from 2011, it is due to the SUV craze. The cars that now have to be designed to survive accidents involving SUV's add weight that otherwise could be avoided.

From 1975 to 1980, average vehicle weight in the U.S. dropped almost 1,000 pounds, from 4,060 lbs to 3,228 lbs. By 2005 those reductions had all been gained back, and the average car was as heavy as it was in 1975.

Mar 02, 2017
"Gas mileage up a gallon", the title makes no sense. Fuel economy is only up 1 mile per gallon.

All the giant SUVs and and pick-up trucks on the road that do not meet passenger vehicle fuel economy standards, safety requirements, or even headlight heights, might have something to do with it. I think you would find they are also causing a lot of deaths in vehicles that do have their bumpers and steel beams at the required places, but don't align with the high bumpers of these heavy vehicles.

Mar 02, 2017
We get four miles/kWh, and "fill up" at home.

No gas, no oil, no tune-ups, no emissions checks, no filters, no leaks.

When the change-over takes place, the entire nation will be transformed.

Mar 02, 2017
Engine efficiency hasn't improved significantly since the 90's because it's already near the best it can be. A theoretically ideal otto-cycle engine running at a compression ratio of 10 can achieve ~45% efficiency. If you adjust that down for real-world pumping, friction and heat losses, the maximum efficiency you can expect out of a regular gasoline engine is about 35%.

Mid-90's best economy engines already ran at 30% efficiency.

So there hasn't actually been all that much headroom to improve. The mileage gains in EPA tests have been achieved by cheating and gimmicks - the so-called MPG-gap which has been growing steadily: the cars just don't achieve the advertised mileage in the real world because the laws of physics won't let them.

The only real way to get the mileage up is to force the people to buy smaller, slower cars, by law - and that won't happen, nor should it happen as long as we live in a free democracy.

Mar 02, 2017
The way to get the mileage up is to use electric transportation.

Mar 02, 2017
The way to get the mileage up is to use electric transportation.


And how many tons of batteries do you need to stack up before an electric car goes the distance of a 10 gallon fuel tank?

Tip: the Tesla Model S battery weighs 1,200 lb and costs more than an entire VW Golf. For the 2015 price of US$44,000 it would actually buy two Golfs.

Any affordable electric car is still a neighborhood scooter for years and years to come. For the majority of people to afford them, the price has to drop to $20k or less for the whole car, and the batteries have to start lasting longer than 10 years so that there would be a second hand market for people who can't afford new cars.

Mar 02, 2017
The way to get the mileage up is to use electric transportation.


Isn't there a dead horse somewhere else that needs beating? You're like a walking broken record. It's old, and it's tiresome.

We know; we get it. You like electric vehicles and solar power. You don't need to constantly remind everyone of that every...single...little...chance...you get.

Mar 02, 2017
Uh, no. Go out and try to buy two e-Golfs for $44k.

All you have is speculation. We have an e-Golf, and PV panels. We do not run out of power/range. We bought it for local use, which is almost all we do. It is perfect for it, and for commutes. if you have not yet used one for a few days, you are speaking from ignorance.

Batteries get better and cheaper as we debate them here. I don't expect to have them as a liability. If, in ten years, I want to change the battery, I expect to replace it with one with more range. I'll use the old one for house power, perhaps.

Look for all the possible weak points of this transformation, but you will not find one which has not been considered first.

And for startibart, sorry to bore you, but this is now practical, not just for eco-freaks with too much money. It heralds massive changes in our economy and society. And it is coming now.


Mar 02, 2017
And for startibart, sorry to bore you, but this is now practical, not just for eco-freaks with too much money. It heralds massive changes in our economy and society. And it is coming now.


What you said has absolutely nothing to do with the article. It's just a chance for you to wank all over the comment section yet again. Just stop it already.

Mar 02, 2017
It's just a chance for you to wank all over the comment section
@SlartiBartfast
it wouldn't even be so bad if her wanking wasn't chock full of misinformation or flat out blatant lies... she can't charge her EV with her PV, and she's already stated she charges it at night (which means, from the GRID because last time i checked, ya can't use PV's at night - LOL)

it makes people who actually own PV systems look bad when they try to explain the limitations of the PV set-up because she craps all over anyone who produces a factual argument with evidence by saying BS personal stuff and argument from her perceived authority

worse yet, anyone who doesn't own an EV is a bad person, even though they don't make them capable of off road or rural work

i've started just reporting all the BS posts and addressing important stuff with facts per her own request to clean up the site

let her beat the dead horse from twitter

Mar 02, 2017
Eikka,

Engine efficiency hasn't improved significantly since the 90's because it's already near the best it can be.


That is the best comment here pertaining to gas mileage. The government is constantly pushing for large increases in mileage and manufacturers are dutifully reporting better fuel efficiency when in fact, significant gains are simply not possible.

As you note, replacing useful cars with smaller, weaker cars can squeeze a bit more mileage. But for that little bit of increased mileage, you have a greatly increased likelihood of injury or death because you cannot pass quickly, cannot accelerate out of a pending accident and when your light little car is hit, it crumples like a modern beer can.

Mar 02, 2017
Hi Shootist.:)
Gas mileage up a gallon since early '90s
Auto prices have doubled.

Not worth the cost.
Increased prices also attributable to improving pollution reduction, safety features and (in many cases, also involves the coomunications/entertainment/internet etc optional extras/add-ons)?

As for anyone bringing up the alternative of battery-electric cars, it may be on-topic once we realize that car/truck internal combustion engines have entered a new age where it's not worthwhile any more throwing good money at them when they very soon may be bypassed altogether by electric vehicles. In analogy, there came a time back in the day when 'improving' horses for pulling carts around/between towns was no longer worth the money invested because the internal combustion engine replaced them. So why is there still money/research resources invested into ICEs when it should be invested in green alternative energy and electric cars research/development?

Cheers. ::

Mar 03, 2017
IMO there's no good reason why fuel economy isn't much higher than it is by now. The car I drive is from 1981 and it gets 45 MPG. Granted, it only has 53 horsepower, but the point is, we knew how to make a car get 45 MPG, 35+ years ago. With the increased efficiency of engines there's no reason we couldn't be averaging 60 MPG by now. The only reason fuel economy is still so low in the USA is because they keep making the engines bigger and bigger, to burn more fuel needlessly. Even in their highest-demand situation, most engines these days will never operate at full output, because they are way too powerful.

If someone took my 1981 VW Rabbit and made the following changes:
-Modern, 3-cylinder, 1L, 70HP turbo diesel engine
-Aerodynamic design
-Lighter weight, better safety features

it could be sold very cheap, would easily get over 55 MPG, and it would be zippy enough. I think it's a myth that you need extra HP just to pass people, that's not a big safety issue.

Mar 06, 2017
In 1988, my first Mustang weighted 2900lbs, with a big iron V8. My last one 2004 was 3750. Why? Safety devices. The government forced heavy, hyper-expensive safety features on us and KILLED fuel economy.

Mar 07, 2017
Uh, no. Go out and try to buy two e-Golfs for $44k.


That's exactly the point. You can't - but you can buy two regular VW Golfs for the money.

So why is there still money/research resources invested into ICEs when it should be invested in green alternative energy and electric cars research/development?


Because battery powered traction is still so far in the horizon that it's not plausible in the large scale. The logistics of it are just ridiculous - e.g. it would take six times the current world production of lithium to electrify all the vehicles in the US alone. That means the EV will kill itself if people actually start buying them in mass, because the battery material prices shoot through the roof.

There's an old Radio Yerevan joke:
Q: We are told that the communism is already seen at the horizon. What then is a horizon?

A: Horizon is an imaginary line which moves away each time you approach it.


Apply to the case as you see fit.

Mar 07, 2017
The car I drive is from 1981 and it gets 45 MPG.


And it would be illegal to make today, because it has to pass the NCAP. Mandatory crash testing only became a thing in 1979 and it was initially only about frontal crashes to a barrier at 35 mph.

If someone took my 1981 VW Rabbit and made the following changes:
-Modern, 3-cylinder, 1L, 70HP turbo diesel engine
-Aerodynamic design
-Lighter weight, better safety features


That description almost meets the modern diesel hatchbacks sold in the UK and EU in general. They don't get 55 MPG-US in the real world, partly because the safety requirements make them heavier than the 1981 cars, and partly because a 70 hp turbo diesel runs out of power band at high speeds.

Tiny turbo diesels have a property of appearing very powerful because they have great torque, but they run out of steam when the speeds go up. Overtaking a big rig will be harrowing, just like with the 53 HP Rabbit.

Mar 07, 2017
Even in their highest-demand situation, most engines these days will never operate at full output, because they are way too powerful.


Gasoline engines aren't actually most efficient at their full power output, but near their peak torque output because that's also the highest pressure on top of the piston. The peak torque comes before the peak power.

In naturally aspirated engines, the peak efficiency is somewhere around half the peak power. A small, fairly aerodynamic and light car requires about 25 HP to move along at highway speeds, hence why an old 1981 VW Rabbit would have a 53 HP engine - it's the most efficient configuration.

Turbo engines push the torque and peak efficiency down to lower RPMs and therefore to lower power (power = speed x torque) which gives turbocharged engines a larger headroom in terms of optimum peak to average power. You can now have a 100+ HP engine that hits the sweet spot on the highway, and does the same 45 MPG as your old Rabbit.

Mar 07, 2017
The little e-Golf has 100% torque even at zero RPM. Once you get used to it, you will scorn ICE cars.

Mar 10, 2017
The little e-Golf has 100% torque even at zero RPM. Once you get used to it, you will scorn ICE cars.


Were you in the habit of launching your ICE car with the transmission in gear and the engine stopped? There's a transmission in between the engine and the wheels, you know, which lets the engine run at top torque through the acceleration.

The e-golf has the same torque as a regular 1.4 liter turbo diesel.

Mar 10, 2017
"The e-golf has the same torque as a regular 1.4 liter turbo diesel. "
------------------------------

Oh???? Caught you.

SHOW ME THE TORQUE CURVES!!

Mar 10, 2017
SHOW ME THE TORQUE CURVES!!


I'll show you the torque curve of an electric induction motor instead:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LDWzG_Kqo_w/UCkUMV4YMGI/AAAAAAAABi0/250X2qZ5-Rw/s1600/Untitled.png

As you may notice, and induction motor - which the E-golf's is - has a startup torque around half the peak torque at zero RPM. It just can't achieve the full rated torque when the car is standing still, because the drive frequency can't be 0 Hz.

The specified peak torque of the E-golf is 199 ft-lbs, while modern 1.4 - 1.6 liter turbo diesels get between 180-200 ft-lbs these days. Take a 2017 VW Jetta for example
https://www.vw.co...ormance/
1.4 liter turbo, 184 ft-lbs. That's in the same ballpark (-8%). Bigger engines of course get better torque.

It's not easy to find a dyno curve online so I can't show you, but the above fact about induction motors already show that you're full of shit again. The e-golf is not a remarkable car.


Mar 10, 2017
No, the e-Golf is not an induction motor-equipped EV, it has a permanent magnet synchronous AC motor.

If you are to to pose as an authority, you have yo understand what you are saying.

Mar 10, 2017
That's right, my old e-Golf is not a remarkable car, . . unless you compare it to an ICE polluter.

It does not take a remarkable EV to beat a really good ICE-powered one.

Mar 10, 2017
No, the e-Golf is not an induction motor-equipped EV, it has a permanent magnet synchronous AC motor.


So it seems. I had to scour pretty far and wide to check; VW doesn't seem to list that information on its website.

It does not take a remarkable EV to beat a really good ICE-powered one.


Except in range.

Though seriously, the e-golf has similiar specs to a Skoda Fabia 1.6 TDI, and that's not a good car. It's a cheap people mover.

Mar 10, 2017

http://www.pacifi...iciency/

Why don't you give up trying to trash someone else' car?

Mar 10, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
That's right, my old e-Golf is not a remarkable car, . . unless you compare it to an ICE polluter.

It does not take a remarkable EV to beat a really good ICE-powered one.
this may be true but only in certain conditions

for instance: if you take the power requirements for said EV and then compared them against, say, a Kia Rio 5 hatchback, all living in your area, then you will have an argument for beating an ICE

however, if you take that exact same vehicle comparison and transfer it to AK (or any mountainous area) when temperatures fall, then there is no f*cking way your EV will compare to the Rio, and that is on-road only

then you have to consider any rural setting and further uses that your EV just can't handle, like 13+ miles of dirt road isolation (typical for rural settings, be they mountainous or other) with no grid or supporting power to charge it with, then you're talking epic failure for an EV

experience trumps delusion again

Mar 10, 2017
Guess what?

I bought a vehicle to meet my needs and conditions.

Is thinking new to you?

Mar 10, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Guess what?

I bought a vehicle to meet my needs and conditions
Is thinking new to you?

i am willing to bet you a years pay that your EV can't compete with my Rio 5 in Alaska for a short three month trial between NOV and JAN

simple competition: scheduled daily trips that are both short and long; regular weekly outings to the woods and rural areas; regular (thrice weekly) grocery trips; we stick to Juneau where the population should provide you the best power and other charging ability; then we end with a cross-country trip to CA for the grand finale

what about it?

we'll let some disinterested 3rd party hold the cash...
let a panel of PO and Sapo's Joint readers judge the competition (if you make it back to CA and don't get stuck on the road with your night-charging PV panels)

what do you say?

Mar 10, 2017
@ Captain-Skippy. How you are? I am good.

i am willing to bet you a years pay
Careful Cher. You do know he has not a paying job since the 80's right?

Mar 10, 2017
Bet?

You would have to identify yourself, and you are too scared to do that.

And I knew Ira could not outgrow his deep adolescence. Hey, I tried to be the grownup, and start over, but there is nothing but two-year-old emotional stability on the other end.

Mar 10, 2017
Hey, I tried to be the grownup, and start over,
You tell the GREAT BIG LIE Skippy.

Unless "start over" means: "I know I am the idiot but stop slapping me around because I can not help it".

Mar 10, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
You would have to identify yourself, and you are too scared to do that
1- i am still not anonymous

2- you already know who i am and where i live, you idiot

3- so you don't want to take up the challenge?
are you perhaps afraid that you will fail?
again?

for starters, Sapo has all my information, so he can be the impartial judge and hold the money too, so there goes your argument for that BS

.

.

Careful Cher. You do know he has not a paying job since the 80's right?
@Ira
LOL
but he sure can afford the pot, eh?
LOL

Mar 10, 2017
Neither of you have had an EV, and are speaking through ignorance and emotion. Our electric e-Golf fits our needs perfectly. Coupled with the PV, it's a winner.

The notion of gas mileage will be quaint for many of us not in the Alaska permafrost. Those of you who need to hide in the woods or ice may have to wait for folk to care enough to build something for you.

Mar 10, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Neither of you have had an EV, and are speaking through ignorance and emotion
1- i've owned at least two more than you

2- emotional arguments are all you've provided so far, whereas i can back up any of my claims with evidence and proof

... hell, anyone who was an engineer should know that cold+batteries means low power (or no power) and that considering your lack of heating for the battery, you can't charge it in AK or in sub zero temps without a chance of damage (as Eikka has already explained and linked info to you more than once)

plus, there is the fact that you have no ability to do anything long range - so that is one epic FAIL for the EV in this challenge

i know that - and so does everyone else but you, apparently

then there is the offroad aspect, to which you seem absolutely sure your EV will excel at... where is the logic in that?

your EV works because your yuppie retired lifestyle

per your request, then...

Mar 10, 2017
My EV works for me because I picked it to suit my needs.

We needed a car for the short trips which make up our driving. We found one for $17k which, when coupled to our house PV, needs no oil, no filters, and no gasoline and runs on essentially "free fuel".

We "gas up" at home at night, taking the same number of kWh we put into the line in the daytimes. It works for the power company and us, too.

Why would I want to buy some ICE PO-youknowhat to drip oil on my driveway? I don't like having to get tune-ups, or oil changes or transmission checks, or any of that ICE stuff.

Mar 13, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
and therein lies my point - lets examine the keywords
My EV works for me because I picked it to suit my needs.

We needed a car for the short trips which make up our driving
so, like i've been saying from the beginning:
-your needs are not everyone's needs
-short distances are not for everyone
-urban people likely should consider the benefits - but rural people can't always consider it practical
-anyone in a regularly cold environment is libel to end up walking depending on weather
-there are no EV's designed for off road and large load movements

at least you finally changed your wording and started posting something that is factual regarding your charging and PV system in that last post... how long will that last?

one last point: just because you don't get oil changes or tune-ups doesn't mean you don't need regular maintenance - perhaps you should check your warranty and requirements again

Mar 14, 2017
Maybe you should be doing the checking before making statements.

Call a dealer and ask how long it is before any maintenance is required.

When we took ours in for its first inspection after a year with no problems, all they could find to do was rotate the tires.

Now with 15,000 miles (14,997 really), it saved us from buying 750 gallons of California-blended gasoline so far, since it replaced a Camry which got 20 mpg in the same service.

Since there are more of folk like me who need a good town car and commute car, than you guys in the woods, these are practical and fill most needs.


Mar 14, 2017
Funny the george kamburoff unreality show seems to be on every thread. I dont remember subscribing. Nobody else appears to be watching. People uniformly downrate it in opinion polls all the time.

And yet its still on. How do we shut it off? Is it some kind of commercial? What could it possibly be selling that anybody in their right mind would want to buy?? As a product its always slimy and bad-smelling and doesnt wash off the dinner plates.

I can only conclude that the manufacturer must be deranged and living off of someone elses money because hes certainly not very good at earning his own.

Mar 14, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Maybe you should be doing the checking before making statements
i already know because i've owned more EV's than you - perhaps you should read a little more of your own purchase contract, eh
here is something for you though
Maintenance needs and safety requirements for hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs), plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), and all-electric vehicles (EVs) are similar to those of conventional vehicles. Manufacturers are designing these vehicles and publishing guides with maintenance and safety in mind
http://www.afdc.e...nce.html

http://auto.howst...ance.htm

https://www.escse...-tagout/

see those? those are links/references
also known as "facts that can be validated"

which makes your post trolling BS diatribe sniping

per your request...

Mar 14, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Since there are more of folk like me who need a good town car and commute car, than you guys in the woods, these are practical and fill most needs
i see

so, if we use this exact same logic and apply it to you - there are far, far, far more poverty stricken chinese farmers than there are American yuppie liars who steal the valor of real soldiers, therefore using your own logic it means you should be walking or taking a goat, donkey or dog to town with no shoes because the numbers are far greater on their end than yours
When we took ours in for its first inspection after a year with no problems, all they could find to do was rotate the tires
wait?
an engineer who doesn't rotate tires more often than once a year?
WTF?
REALLY?

i also know for a fact that a new OR used eGolf requires more checkups than a yearly one

looks like you just invalidated your warranty
LMFAO

oh, and per your request...

Mar 14, 2017
Please outgrow your need to find error with those who bested you.

You know nothing about my e-Golf. Like Trump you make wild assertions you want to believe, then use misleading references you do not understand to "answer"any response.

And stop with the stolen valor bit. You have seen my service records and posted them in your dossier you posted on line, like a true stalker. They are exemplary, to your embarrassment.

Where are yours, Mr Bigmouth? You rag about your service but cannot provide any proof whatever. Like Trump, you accuse others of your own failings.

They call it projection. Ask otto about it.

Mar 14, 2017
"Maintenance needs and safety requirements for hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs), plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), and all-electric vehicles (EVs) are similar to those of conventional vehicles"
-------------------------------------

How ridiculous! With no crankcase and no mechanical complexity we do not need oil and oil filters. Compare the maintenance required for an ICE to that of a sealed electric motor.

Start looking at the reduced need for brake use, and lack of emission controls or standards, transmission problems, and all the maintenance required for them with ICE engines and start to realize the promise of electric transportation.

Mar 14, 2017
You know nothing about my e-Golf.
The one you put the "capacitive sensors" on to let you know you bumped into somebody?

Mar 14, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
bested you
delusional trump claim
You know nothing about my e-Golf
yet i just proved you wrong with links/references
misleading references
there is nothing misleading about the references
just becuase you are too f*cking stupid doesn't mean everyone else is too
stop with the stolen valor bit
no - i can prove you stole valor
sue me or STFU
You have seen my service records
and nowhere is there a combat V nor is there a marksmanship ribbon for the USAF
and that=STOLEN VALOR
Where are yours
http://s1027.phot...p;page=1

PW=VALIDATE

you can't get a military ID without a DD214 - making you a liar and trump idiot

when ya gonna sue like you threatened?

.

reported for blatantly false claims that are proven to be false by your own admission, legal records and by simply reading the links

Mar 14, 2017
Would you please get over your fixation on me?

You are a STALKER, Rumpy, with your pathetic dossier online.

A STALKER.

Do you have a shrink? He can tell you how far off the edge you have gone.

Mar 14, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Would you please .... whine cry boohoo bullsh*t
http://outofthefo...mization

.

.

reported per your own request

Mar 14, 2017
The new models are much better at range now. Our next one should have over 200 miles I expect.

And it may be too late to stop the mileage increases, since now ICEs will compete with EVs, and hybrids for economy, performance, and reliability.

Right now, the main problem is cost, since range is increasing already. But it costs much less to wind an electric motor than cast and drill out an engine block, not even talking about a crankshaft and pistons and valves and other stuff.

Once the ICE plants are turned into battery manufacturing and motor shops, the cost will drop and world will change dramatically.

Mar 14, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Our next one
- you should read it as it directly will affect what you pay when you screw up your EV by failing to maintain it, especially as it means violating the warranty requirements absolves VW and the dealer of any responsibility to honour said warranty
http://www.vwcorp...dule.pdf

please note that this is based on miles - but that means learning how to read your odometer (this will help you: http://readingbear.org/ )

type of warranty is important too: http://www.autoby...arranty/

if you skip required checkups and stick to a "yearly" plan, you are giving away money out of ignorance... and if you're gonna do that, just send it to Ira or Otto
Right now, the main problem is cost, since range is increasing already
ONLY for urban yuppies or casual short range drivers


Mar 14, 2017
You are a STALKER, Rumpy, with your pathetic dossier online
Well in the same vein animal control officers are stalkers because they keep rabid animals in check. Youre like a sick racoon in the attic.

Who ya gonna call?

Mar 15, 2017
Well in the same vein animal control officers are stalkers because they keep rabid animals in check
@Otto
it's more like a person who visits 1,000 truck stop bathrooms and carves their name and number into the stalls for "a good time" but then gets mad and complains that people are stalking...

i mean - he wanted attention and sent his info to me wanting me to post it publicly to insure i would be fair and not lie, as noted in the thread and historical e-mails, but now somehow it's stalking

LMFAO

and he wonders why he can't get a lawyer to touch this lawsuit with a ten foot pole!

LOL

Mar 15, 2017
We're learning so much about the diseased mind! Thats what science is for.

George is like a scab you cant stop picking. So why did god invent scabs you are compelled to pick?

Its an imperfect metaphor.

Mar 17, 2017
How ridiculous! With no crankcase and no mechanical complexity we do not need oil and oil filters.


Oils and filter changes are a trivial expense in a car. Obsessing about those is missing the forest for the trees: a car should be inspected every year to make sure the joints, wheels, brakes, wipers, coolant fluid, battery, auxillaries etc. are still in working order. This is no different with an electric car, and why the manufacturers have a maintenance schedule in the first place.

A neglected car won't last you a decade, and becomes a safety hazard as it can develop faults leading to an electrical fire or worse.

Mar 17, 2017
Hilarious! you miss the point.

What we had to do was all that was needed. We didn't need filters or oil or tune-ups, or emissions work or transmission checks or any of the other stuff you need to do.

Compare the extreme complexity of today's ICE with a simple electric motor.

How many moving parts?

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