Climate change is analyzed from the perspective of the social sciences

May 31, 2011

Climate change is analyzed from the perspective of the social sciences

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This image depicts a balance between enviroment and law. Credit: Carlos III University of Madrid

Research being carried out at Carlos III University of Madrid analyzes the key factors in climate change and the risks to public policies that it implies. This study approaches the issue from the perspective of Sociology, Economics and Law.

The researchers base their work the fact that climate change has become one of the main problems of the 21st Century, as is demonstrated by numerous studies that confirm the seriousness of its effects. In this sense, similar to what occurs in the area of energy, the issues that are raised regarding its characteristics, extent, and consequences have a decisive effect on public policy and, therefore, on the Law, which is the means of formalizing and enforcing those policies. "In this way, the Law, which has always been called upon to generate confidence and certainty by adequately controlling risks, is confronted with the challenges raised by the inevitable innovations that are part of the fight against climate change", explains the head researcher, Professor Luciano Parejo, of the Public Administration Law Department of the UC3M.

The project, which is called "Law in the face of the innovation and risks derived from climate change", poses issues that go from the questioning of established principles, techniques and solutions to the search for new focuses and solutions to the problems that such questioning may generate. In order to do this, "interdisciplinary collaboration is essential, mainly between , economists, and ", Prof. Parejo points out. As a result of this team effort, several interesting works have already been published, he adds, such as "a study of the 'Acquatorium', the coastal ecosystem formed where land and sea meet, or another study regarding the situation of throughout Europe, which is fundamental in the struggle against climate change ", he concludes.

This multidisciplinary group of researchers seeks to do an in-depth study of a society based on science and technology, which finds itself on a fast-moving evolutionary path that causes some degree of uncertainty. In this context, they are examining the role that Law can play in facing the challenges that climate change raises. "Is it acting as a hindrance or, on the contrary, is there a need to innovate the Law in such a way that it may be of service in reaching the social objectives that have been set?" wonder the researchers, who intend to resolve this type of question from an international perspective.

The objectives of this research are established around three main lines of activity. First, they hope to identify the risks and essential factors involved in , as well as the derived consequences that influence , legislation and executive actions aimed at preventing and counteracting those consequences. Second, this research is designed to determine the impact of innovations on the main legal institutions and techniques, in order to determine the current degree of ability and flexibility that the has to respond adequately to these innovations. Finally, this research project aspires to formulate a set of proposals that would guarantee the Law's flexibility as regarding this issue evolves, while at the same time maintaining its mission of offering confidence in the decisions taken by both public and private figures.

Provided by Carlos III University of Madrid

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3432682
May 31, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (12)
The main risk of global warming is political. Socialist leaders are use the fear of warming to cripple energy supplies, raise prices, and destroy jobs. The evidence of CO2 causing actual warming is small. CO2 warming is an assumption. The effects of the slight warming are beneficial on balance. If the climate were cooling, these same socialists would again be grabbing power and imposing anti-market "solutions" which would cripple our economies. Socialist schemes have already ruined housing, food prices, education price and quality, the cost of medicine, and the value of retirement savings. The world economic system is on the verge of collapse because of excessive borrowing by obese socialist governments. The true global threat is socialist, statist policy itself.
Cin5456
May 31, 2011

Rank: 4.4 / 5 (11)
You might keep in mind that the economic meltdown that occurred came on President Bush's watch, not during the present administration. Obama has had to deal with the aftermath and has had no help from right-wing do-nothing Tea baggers. They dont promote policy. They only tell you what they dont want without proposing alternatives. And they certainly arent very good politicians, since it is the job of a politician to come to some compromise that will benefit the majority of the population, rather than benefit the majority of the industries that paid to get them elected.

And a duly elected Democratic President is not a power grab; it is your government working the way it is supposed to, by the election process. A power grab is what happens when industrial complexes finance the election of politicians who will change policy to suit industry. A power grab might be seen as a politician deciding to arrest and prosecute academtics who are trying to shed some light on a phenomenon that will affect most of the world's population.

Democrats are not socialists. They are not Russians, or Cubans or even 1940's fascist Italians. They are 50 % of the population of the U.S. Do you advocate arresting and prosecuting half the population of the country just because they believe in helping the elderly and infirm? Sounds like McCarthyism to me.

Oh, and statist policy is what Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is trying to achieve by abrogating the power of unions to negotiate on the behalf of the people. He is giving economic power to the state over the rights of individuals. I suppose you believe that ordinary people should not have the right to negotiate contracts that affect their livelihoods.
ryggesogn2
May 31, 2011

Rank: 1.7 / 5 (12)
"the fact that climate change has become one of the main problems of the 21st Century,"

Fact?

The only fact is the socialists are having a problem forcing the world to comply.
ryggesogn2
May 31, 2011

Rank: 1.9 / 5 (10)
Obama has had to deal with the aftermath

By rewarding his political supporters with billions of dollars taxpayers money.
"That the Administration and Congress chose the particular
stimulus adopted suggests that stimulating the economy
not their only objective. Instead, the Administration used
recession and the financial crisis to redistribute resources favored
interest groups (unions, the green lobby, and public education)
and to increase the size and scope of government.4"
http://www.realcl.../519.pdf
ryggesogn2
May 31, 2011

Rank: 1.4 / 5 (10)
Democrats are not socialists. They are not Russians, or Cubans or even 1940's fascist Italians. They are 50 % of the population of the U.S.

Yes, they are socialists and they are < 50% of the population.
FrankHerbert
May 31, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (72)
Ryggesukn, look, I'm going to give you a super secret socialist Alinskyite tip. Otherization only works when you are speaking to like minded people.
ryggesogn2
May 31, 2011

Rank: 2.3 / 5 (8)
I would think those who claim to engage in science would want people to be accurate and precise.
'Cin' makes inaccurate statements and gets a pass because he is of the popular political persuasion?
ryggesogn2
May 31, 2011

Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
"the number of limos owned by Uncle Sam increased by 73 percent during the first two years of the Obama administration, according to an analysis of records by iWatch News. "
http://www.iwatch...er-obama
Obama didn't inherit this from Bush.
FrankHerbert
May 31, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (72)
Once again Marjon does not read past the first paragraph...

"The GSA said its limousine numbers are not reliable, even though the federal fleet numbers are officially recorded every year. In a statement, GSA spokeswoman Sara Merriam said, The categories in the Fleet Report are overly broad, and the term 'limousine' is not defined, adding that vehicles represented as limousines can range from protective duty vehicles to sedans. Asked whether the GSA actually knows how many limos it has in its fleet, Merriam responded that GSA cannot say that its report accurately reflects the number of limousines."

More dishonesty from Marjon.
ryggesogn2
May 31, 2011

Rank: 2.5 / 5 (11)
What, the govt Frank loves is incompetent too?
FrankHerbert
May 31, 2011

Rank: 1.9 / 5 (71)
More dishonesty from Marjon.
ryggesogn2
May 31, 2011

Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
the power of unions to negotiate on the behalf of the people.

These are unions of employees that work for the government. Why would a union be required for govt employees? The socialist FDR opposed unions for govt employees.
California's govt unions are killing the state:

"Californias public unions are sucking the state dry like a parasite killing its host"
http://blogs.the-...d-state/

WI public employee union dues fund WI democrat candidates who then take more money from taxpayers to give to the public employees who then donate MORE to WI socialist candidates. The taxpayers who have been soaked have broken the cycle. The public employees work FOR the taxpayers. Not the other way around.
FrankHerbert
May 31, 2011

Rank: 1.9 / 5 (70)
Actually California has been fucked ever since Reagan's governorship. IIRC, he led a campaign to amend their constitution making it virtually impossible to raise taxes. Of course the state can't pay its bills. This is another example of Republicans intentionally sabotaging government (destroying lives in the process) to make cheap political points.
Vendicar_Decarian
May 31, 2011

Rank: 0.8 / 5 (29)
"Why would a union be required for govt employees?" - Tard of Tards

What an incredibly stupid question.

You see.. we socialists, recognize that without adequate regulation, employers private or public, regularly violate workers rights.

Unions provide a means of constraining the violation of worker rights by corporations without the need for government to micromanage the corporation.

"Californias public unions are sucking the state dry like a parasite killing its host" - Tard of Tards

That is the claim being made by Conservative Think Tanks, who among other things have stated that California beach life guards make $200,000 a year, or that NY Fire Fighters make $250,000 a year, or that NY Public Sanitation workers make $175,000 a year.

All of the above claims are lies of course. When one looks at the story rather than the headline from these Conservative Propaganda groups, reality is much different.

Cont.
Vendicar_Decarian
May 31, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (31)
In the case of California Life Guards it turns out that only a hand full of managers are making 200,000 but in reality their wages are half of that. The rest is presumed by the Stink Tanks as probable benefits.

The Life Guards themselves make $25,000 a year roughly, with a core team making two to three times that amount because they are the professionals who actually train the day to day lifeguards who by the way, come from all over the world and pay for training. Payments that add up to several million per year that goes into the California Government's pocket.

So the high waged lifeguards actually offset most to all of their own wages.

But you don't hear that from the likes of the Heratige Foundation or the Competitive Enterprise Institute or the Cato Institution. They are more interested in spreading their Conservative Lies.

I have never encountered a conservative who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

Vendicar_Decarian
May 31, 2011

Rank: 1.1 / 5 (31)
"Actually California has been fucked ever since Reagan's governorship. IIRC, he led a campaign to amend their constitution making it virtually impossible to raise taxes." - Frank

Frank is absolutely correct. The primary problem in California is an obstructionist gaggle of Conservatives in Government who refuse to allow the State to raise the taxes needed to adequately govern.

"We need to manufacture an crisis in order to assure that there are no alternatives to a smaller government." - Bush - Imprimus magazine 1995
Vendicar_Decarian
May 31, 2011

Rank: 0.9 / 5 (30)
"the number of limos owned by Uncle Sam increased by 73 percent during the first two years of the Obama administration, according to an analysis of records by iWatch News. " - Merion the Conservative Liar

The very article you quote from goes on to lament that there is no definition for what is and is not a limo. So it's claim that the count of Limo's has increased by the stated percentage is founded on nothing.

It is simply another Conservative Lie making it's way around the Conservative Echo chamber, where one lying Republican ape echo's it to another and another and another.

Watching the lies spread amongst Whack Tard Conservatives is like watching Syphilis spread among first cousins at a born again Christian Family Jamboree.

ryggesogn2
May 31, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (8)
You see.. we socialists, recognize that without adequate regulation, employers private or public, regularly violate workers rights.

How can you socialists violate your own workers rights?

Well, Stalin did murder a lot of workers so I guess I can see why you socialists need a union to protect yourselves from your fellow socialists.
Vendicar_Decarian
May 31, 2011

Rank: 0.9 / 5 (30)
"Yes, they are socialists and they are < 50% of the population." - Tard of Tards

Virtually everyone in America is a socialist Tard Boy.

If you want a government owned and run Military, Police force, Court of law, system of medicare, medicade, welfare, or Social Security, or any similar program, then you are a Socialst.

Even ConservaTards are typically socialists.

Vendicar_Decarian
May 31, 2011

Rank: 0.6 / 5 (28)
"By rewarding his political supporters with billions of dollars taxpayers money." - Tard of Tards

That is a lovely fairy story, as is the PDF you link to.

Odd isn't it that the author of "the case against stimulus" provides not a single equation or number to support his ideologically based argument.

That is the problem with Conservative Economics. It is all failed Conservative ideology and zero numerical analysis.

Vendicar_Decarian
May 31, 2011

Rank: 0.5 / 5 (27)
"Oh, and statist policy is what Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is trying to achieve by abrogating the power of unions to negotiate on the behalf of the people. He is giving economic power to the state over the rights of individuals." - Cin5456

Don't talk truth around Conservatives. It gives them the farts and confuses their tiny little brains.
Cin5456
May 31, 2011

Rank: 4.4 / 5 (7)
I tried to post this earlier and physorg keeps giving me erros on the page:

"that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth Abraham Lincoln
Remember this great concept?

I would rather have unions, which are made up of the people, voted on by the people, and advocate for the people, contributing to political campaigns, than have industrial corporate lobbyists, who advocate shutting out the voice of the people, and bully governments into changing regulations that protect the health of the people, in order to further the industrial machines elite profits and excessive CEO salaries, which would pay the wages of most of those who are laid off by the politicians who were assisted in being elected by those industries lobbyists.
Gilbert
May 31, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
On the article. I find it funny that they didn't include a climate scientist in the study, seems like an "us vs them" where these arts based professions are collaborating in order to sort out how they maintain control through this next century or two ( kind of like a bunch of jocks adjusting their tactics when the nerds start to gain popularity among the plebs )
hush1
Jun 01, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Not since Einstein, has the entire world been forced to revamp it's entire world view about Nature. The cause? Lies. One desperate theoretician summarized:

"It's like room temperature superconductivity on orders of magnitude beyond our comprehension. It is the famous perpetual motion - this time for real. All our knowledge, useless. No loss. No Noise. No Entropy. A new kind of law of conservation:
Conservative Lies." Forget the telephone game.
ryggesogn2
Jun 01, 2011

Rank: 2.7 / 5 (7)
bully governments into changing regulations

Unions don't bully governments? What do you call union members skipping work and invading the capital building?
You blame the poor govt for being 'bullied' by corporations yet it is the govt that has the real power. Just as Microsoft who has the real power. Microsoft didn't spend on lobbying in the late 90s. They were prosecuted by the Clinton regime and now they play the govt game and hire lobbyists.
Consumers have the real power over a company if the govt does not protect them.
ryggesogn2
Jun 01, 2011

Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
Unions bullying govt into making laws to force people to join unions an fork over their hard earned wages.
If unions were such a good deal, why do unions need to bully their members to 'join'?
ryggesogn2
Jun 01, 2011

Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
Unions bully govt into making laws that force people to join unions and fork over their hard earned wages.
If unions were such a good deal, why do unions need to bully their members to 'join'?

(Revised)
FrankHerbert
Jun 01, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (71)
Ryggesogn2, do you care about worker's rights? If so, how would you go about protecting them? Please don't just say corporations will do the "right thing" or some magic falling out of the ass of the free market BS argument.
ryggesogn2
Jun 01, 2011

Rank: 2.1 / 5 (7)
What are the rights of an employee and an employer?
Do public employees have the right to force taxpayers to give them better salaries and benefits than those who pay those taxes?
FrankHerbert
Jun 01, 2011

Rank: 1.9 / 5 (70)
Do public employees have the right to force taxpayers to give them better salaries and benefits than those who pay those taxes?


Well they certainly aren't rich then because the rich don't pay taxes.
ryggesogn2
Jun 01, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Do public employees have the right to force taxpayers to give them better salaries and benefits than those who pay those taxes?


Well they certainly aren't rich then because the rich don't pay taxes.

Top 5% pay >50% of the taxes.
http://ntu.org/ta...xes.html
Cin5456
Jun 03, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (5)
"bully governments into changing regulations"

I was talking about a recent congressional hearing where oil company execs told government that if they ended the subsidies paid to oil companies then the oil companies would raise the price of gas (again.) I was also talking about the work that oil mogul's lobbyists are trying to force the EPA to stop regulating clean air so they can continue to release toxins into the atmosphere.
ryggesogn2
Jun 03, 2011

Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
That's not what was said.
Gas prices are falling.
That 'hearing' was a dog and pony show so the democrats could look like they were doing something.
The EPA should be forced by Congress to stop regulation CO2.
ryggesogn2
Jun 03, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Democrats threatened to increase the taxes on oil companies by eliminating depreciation on capital that all other businesses can do.
So if the taxes are raised on any business they must compensate by raising prices or cutting investments or reducing costs (layoffs), etc.
What a great 'progressive' idea, artificially raise the costs of oil companies as the dollar cost of oil keeps rising (mostly due to govt induced inflation).
FrankHerbert
Jun 03, 2011

Rank: 1.9 / 5 (70)
No they threatened to end subsidies that oil companies have enjoyed for decades. STOP LYING.

Why do you support corporate welfare?
ryggesogn2
Jun 03, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
What subsidies are those? The same all other businesses get?

BTW, I support the end of all corporate taxes as their customers pay them.

Corporate welfare like GE gets for making contributions to democrats?
ryggesogn2
Jun 03, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Why don't all companies get the same tax breaks as GM?
"McArdle figures that, at a cost of roughly $10 billion to $20 billion, we might as well have given GM's pre-bankruptcy workforce of 75,000 hourly workers $250,000 each and called it a day.

On top of the bailout, the government has given GM a special tax break - CNN calls it "a sweetheart deal" - that will save it $14 billion on its U.S. tax bill. The government also is trying to induce consumers to buy GM's signature new product, the absurdly expensive electric Chevy Volt, by giving them a $7,500 tax credit on its $41,000 sticker price."
http://www.realcl...079.html
FrankHerbert
Jun 04, 2011

Rank: 1.9 / 5 (69)
Isn't the point of welfare to give it to those who need it? Didn't GM need it? Weren't those jobs saved? Assuming your figures are correct, would losing all those jobs have been worth 19 billion dollars? Of course not. Losing those hundreds of thousands of jobs (not just from GM) would have done much more damage to the economy than that. However you are only interested in punishing those you perceive as 'socialist', so you can't really be expected to have a rational worldview.

I don't see the most profitable industry in history (oil) needing welfare.
ryggesogn2
Jun 04, 2011

Rank: 2.6 / 5 (5)
Now Frank supports corporate welfare and like a good fascist wants to pick and choose what industries to support.
Of course those industries that donate to the democrats MUST be saved.
But I thought 'progressives' wanted to get the money out of politics. Corporate welfare draws money into politics.
FrankHerbert
Jun 04, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (70)
So you would have let hundreds of thousands of Americans lose their jobs? What jobs are at risk in the oil industry? Unlike you I'm not blinded by ideology, and I can think in a more nuanced manner than trying to find socialists around every corner.

Also, in the US fascism will come draped in the flag carrying a bible. Certainly not me.
ryggesogn2
Jun 04, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
Thousands of jobs don't exist now in the oil industry due to govt restrictions on drilling in the gulf and thousands of other regulations driving production overseas.
ryggesogn2
Jun 04, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
So Frank, you don't mind thousands of jobs being lost due to this regime's attack on coal and oil?
"The winners in President Obamas energy policy are the well-connected corporate and social elite, while the losers are the hardworking Americans. Its fundamentally a wealth transfer mechanism from middle- and lower-class households to corporate heads and billionaire investors who want to profit from renewable energy.
Our nations natural resources and access to affordable energy are under assault from environmentalists, business interests and progressive politicians. Their plan is to raise the price of fossil fuels to make renewable energy economically competitive.

Read more: http://dailycalle...OLXpzhdy

"
FrankHerbert
Jun 04, 2011

Rank: 1.8 / 5 (66)
Yeah, I care more about hundreds of thousands of jobs than I do about thousands of jobs.
ryggesogn2
Jun 05, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
Yeah, I care more about hundreds of thousands of jobs than I do about thousands of jobs.

How can you when you support policies that destroy jobs?
ekim
Jun 05, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Yeah, I care more about hundreds of thousands of jobs than I do about thousands of jobs.

How can you when you support policies that destroy jobs?

http://static4.bu...date.gif
Exactly.
ryggesogn2
Jun 05, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Unemployment rate: Jan 09 - May 11
Jan-DEC 09: 7.8 8.2 8.6 8.9 9.4 9.5 9.5 9.7 9.8 10.1 9.9 9.9
2010: 9.7 9.7 9.7 9.8 9.6 9.5 9.5 9.6 9.6 9.7 9.8 9.4
2011: 9.0 8.9 8.8 9.0 9.1

http://data.bls.g...14000000

Medan unemployment Jan 01-DEC 08: 5.25% (Bush)
Median unemployment Jan 09-May 11: 9.5% (Obama)

Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.8 / 5 (28)
The Bush Failure entered office with a budget surplus and left America Bankrupt and in a near economic depression.

America should thank the Gods that a competent leader like Obama was there to prevent the economy from crashing into a decades long depression of 30% unemployment.
Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.6 / 5 (27)
"So Frank, you don't mind thousands of jobs being lost due to this regime's attack on coal and oil?" - RyggTard

Attacks that exist only in the minds of Conservative tin foil cappers.

Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.6 / 5 (27)
"So you would have let hundreds of thousands of Americans lose their jobs?" - FrankHerbert

I've personally seen thousands - yes thousands - of Conservatives demand that all deficit spending be halted immediately, even though this would immediately put 15 million Americans out of work and then another 15 million almost immediately due to the ancillary effects of the reduced spending of the first 15 million.

Their demands are equivalent of demanding that the Unemployment rate immediately be increased to 30 percent.

The problem is that Republicans don't really understand how to add or subtract and that is why they can't handle money without colossal failure.
Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.5 / 5 (26)
"Thousands of jobs don't exist now in the oil industry due to govt restrictions" - RyggTard

Just as thousands of jobs don't exist in the murder for hire industry for the same reason.

As a thinking person I recognize the need to conserve resources for future generations.

What is your excuse for your ConservaTard demand that not doing so is akin to treason?

Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.5 / 5 (26)
"On top of the bailout, the government has given GM a special tax break " - RyggTard

GM is one of the few manufacturers that the U.S. has left, and you Republican Traitors would have turned your back on it and let it go out of business - taking a half million American Jobs with it.

Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.5 / 5 (26)
"BTW, I support the end of all corporate taxes.." - RyggTard

Of course you do. You are a Republican and hence an enemy of the middle class.
Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.3 / 5 (25)
"Well, Stalin did murder a lot of workers" - RyggTard

Capitalists have murdered hundreds of millions of people in comparison.
Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.3 / 5 (25)
"Do public employees have the righ" - RyggTard

Why don't you answer the question Tard Boy. Here it is again...

Ryggesogn2, do you care about worker's rights? If so, how would you go about protecting them? Please don't just say corporations will do the "right thing" or some magic falling out of the ass of the free market BS argument.
Vendicar_Decarian
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 0.3 / 5 (25)
"Unions don't bully governments? What do you call union members skipping work and invading the capital building?" - RyggTard

Democracy.

Something you Conservative traitors clearly have no concept of.

ryggesogn2
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 1.7 / 5 (6)
WI had their democratic opportunity in NOV 2010.
Invading the capital is not democracy. It's a fine example of the 'progressive's' response to losing.
And it demonstrates that socialists must resort to violence when the people oppose their rule.
Skeptic_Heretic
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 3.7 / 5 (3)
WI had their democratic opportunity in NOV 2010.
They still have it. Have you not seen the recalls? Everyone can make mistakes.
Invading the capital is not democracy.
When the majority of people do it, it is exactly what democracy is. Rule by the people.
It's a fine example of the 'progressive's' response to losing.
Actually the progressives tried to enforce the law, then the Republicans changed the game due to their majority in the house and senate of the state.
And it demonstrates that socialists must resort to violence when the people oppose their rule.
There was no violence in the sit ins in WI.
ryggesogn2
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 1.8 / 5 (5)
When the majority of people do it, it is exactly what democracy is. Rule by the people

Yep, mob rule, not rule of law.

SH claims to support rule of law.
ryggesogn2
Jun 06, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
due to their majority in the house and senate of the state.

It's called an representative republic, rule of law.
Skeptic_Heretic
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
Yep, mob rule, not rule of law. SH claims to support rule of law.
And?
due to their majority in the house and senate of the state.
It's called an representative republic, rule of law.
No, a representative republic is not the rule of law. The rule of law and representation are not necessary complimentary parts. Laws can and do exist without representation, and representation exists with or without law.

Going to gloss over your lie of violence in WI?
ryggesogn2
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 2 / 5 (4)
"On Thursday, more than 1,000 teachers called in sick. What kind of message does it send for a teachers to call in sick when she is not sick? Most people call that lying. Furthermore, is it not fraud when they call in sick while spending the day shouting and carrying protest signs at the state capitol and being paid sick leave by the taxpayers?"
http://spectator....mob-rule
I guess fraud isn't violence, but it is against the law.
"After the state Senate passed anti-union measures, protesters swarmed the Capitol. But because of a judges order that the building be closed after 8pm, police were required to try and stop them. They tried. And because of the aggressive manner of the protesters, eventually failed."
http://a12iggymom...10/9623/
'Peaceful' 'progressive' protesters?
hush1
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 3 / 5 (4)
No one can help but being impressed. Never before, have I seen so many invalid points by one person being invalidated by a patience, understanding and tolerance bordering the godlike.

The learning curve for me is immense and invaluable. I appreciate your sacrifice regarding R2.

I hope there is no post limit to the number of posts allowed in one thread. I know how to respond now if I see similarity of a mindset sharing R2's mindset. Thanks.
ryggesogn2
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
From 'non-violent' WI 'progressives':
"From: XXXX
Sent: Wed 3/9/2011 9:18 PM
To: Sen.Kapanke; Sen.Darling; Sen.Cowles; Sen.Ellis; Sen.Fitzgerald; Sen.Galloway; Sen.Grothman; Sen.Harsdorf; Sen.Hopper; Sen.Kedzie; Sen.Lasee; Sen.Lazich; Sen.Leibham; Sen.Moulton; Sen.Olsen
Subject: Atten: Death threat!!!! Bomb!!!!

Please put your things in order because you will be killed and your familes
will also be killed due to your actions in the last 8 weeks. Please explain
to them that this is because if we get rid of you and your families then it
will save the rights of 300,000 people and also be able to close the deficit
that you have created. I hope you have a good time in hell. Read below for
more information on possible scenarios in which you will die."
http://www.620wtm...l?blog=y
ryggesogn2
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"Moore responded angrily to the Wisconsin State Senates vote to strip public unions of their right to collectively bargain, declaring: This is war."
"Moore said: I would say that anyone who lives within driving distance of Madison, Wisconsin right now should make their way to the capital. This is war. This is class war that has been leveled against working class people in America."
http://a12iggymom...10/9623/

WAR? From 'peaceful' 'tolerant' 'progressives'?

BTW, the socialist FDR opposed the unionization of govt employees.
Skeptic_Heretic
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
WAR? From 'peaceful' 'tolerant' 'progressives'?
War doesn't necesarily require violence. Ideological wars, like the INdian rebellion, were quite peaceful. You show a large amount of ignorance when you show your inability to use the language properly.
BTW, the socialist FDR opposed the unionization of govt employees.
Are you really going to tell us that the man that signed the National Labor Relations Act was anti-union? Laughably stupid you are. Feel free to append your quotemine of FDR's speech on federal unions.
ryggesogn2
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the National Federation of Federal Employees. Yes, public workers may demand fair treatment, wrote Roosevelt. But, he wrote, "I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place" in the public sector. "A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government."
http://www.realcl...962.html
Skeptic_Heretic
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Right, he warned against the right to strike, not against the right to collectively bargain. So predictable. You should spend some time learning the languaage of your country. It may help you in conversation with other anglophones, especially those who actively engage their minds in such conversation.

By the way, how funny that you site realclearpolitics as the reference for that quote mined component. Have you ever read the full text? Probably not.
Skeptic_Heretic
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Here's the bit before your fav quotemine:
Organizations of Government employees have a logical place in Government affairs. The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical
TheGhostofOtto1923
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: not rated yet
WAR? From 'peaceful' 'tolerant' 'progressives'?

BTW, the socialist FDR opposed the unionization of govt employees.
Jesus was a progressive. So was Marx. They both inspired many wars of various kinds. Has not anyone ever pointed this out to you?

Here you go:
http://www.crossl...ode/1549
ryggesogn2
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters."
"I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. "
http://www.conser...-union.h
ryggesogn2
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 1 / 5 (2)
"Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government.""
http://www.conser...ion.html

So FDR supported a neutered public unions. If they couldn't strike, what leverage did they have?
PATCO found out.
Skeptic_Heretic
Jun 07, 2011

Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
So FDR supported a neutered public unions. If they couldn't strike, what leverage did they have?
PATCO found out.
Look at that, can't even maintain the grammatical tense when cornered.

You seem to forget that PATCO was decertified after they broke the law (5 U.S.C. (Supp. III 1956) 118p) and went on strike. It took over 10 years for air traffic control to get back to a reasonable and safe state after Reagan fired them, and arguably flight safety was incredibly low until Clinton put the former PATCO members back to work in 93. What followed was the sharpest reduction in airline traffic pattern overhead and safety violations ever recorded.

Here's the real winner: Ironically, Reagan had prefaced his statement that the strikers would forfeit their jobs by saying that he believed that private sector employees had the right to strike and that the air traffic controllers were different because they were vital to public safety, just as FDR did.
Rank 4 /5 (8 votes)
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