Quantum gravity's tangled time

Quantum gravity’s tangled time
A pair of starships train for a mission. They are asked to fire at each other at a specified time, and immediately start their engines in order to dodge each other’s attack. If either of the ships fires too early, it will destroy the other, and this establishes an unmistakable time order between the firing events. If a powerful agent could place a sufficiently massive object, say a planet, closer to one ship it would slow down its counting of time. As a result, the ship farther away from the mass will fire too early for the first one to escape. Credit: Magdalena Zych

The theories of quantum mechanics and gravity are notorious for being incompatible, despite the efforts of scores of physicists over the past fifty years. However, recently an international team of researchers led by physicists from the University of Vienna, the Austrian Academy of Sciences as well as the University of Queensland (AUS) and the Stevens Institute of Technology (U.S.) have combined the key elements of the two theories describing the flow of time and discovered that temporal order between events can exhibit genuine quantum features.

According to general relativity, the presence of a slows down the flow of time. This means that a clock placed close to a massive object will run slower as compared to an identical one that is further away.

However, the rules of quantum theory allow for any object to be prepared in a . A superposition state of two locations is different to placing an object in one or the other location randomly—it is another way for an object to exist, allowed by the laws of quantum physics.

One of the open questions in physics is: What happens when an object massive enough to influence the flow of time is placed in a quantum superposition state?

This is a controversial topic: some physicists claim that such scenarios are fundamentally impossible—some new mechanism must block the superposition from forming in the first place—while others develop entire theories based on the assumption that this is possible.

"We started by tackling a question: what would a clock measure if it was influenced by a massive object in a quantum superposition state?" explains Magdalena Zych from the University of Queensland.

The scientists were expecting to face the roadblocks making the scenario impossible, but surprisingly, using standard textbook physics they were able to exactly describe what happens.

They so discovered that when a massive object is placed in a quantum superposition in the vicinity of a set of clocks, their time order can become genuinely quantum, defying any classical description.

Caslav Brukner, coauthor from the University of Vienna and the Austrian Academy of Sciences added that the regime where quantum time order could arise is quite remote from our everyday experience, "but the most important insight from our work is that quantum time order is at all possible, and that it results in new physical effects."

To illustrate what happens, imagine a pair of starships training for a mission. They are asked to fire at each other at a specified time, and immediately start their engines in order to dodge each other's attack. If either of the ships fires too early, it will destroy the other, and this establishes an unmistakable time order between the firing events. If a powerful agent could place a sufficiently massive object, say a planet, closer to one ship it would slow down its counting of time. As a result, the ship farther away from the mass will fire too early for the first one to escape.

The laws of quantum physics and gravity predict that by manipulating a quantum superposition state of the planet, the ships can end up in a superposition of either of them being destroyed. Such a superposition state, involving two systems, is called entangled. The new work shows that the temporal order among events can exhibit superposition and entanglement—genuinely quantum features of particular importance for testing quantum theory against alternatives. The result can now be used as a theoretical testing ground for frameworks for quantum gravity, and thus help to move forward in formulating the correct theory of quantum gravity.

The study will also be relevant for future quantum technologies. Quantum computers that exploit quantum order of performing operations might beat devices that operate using only fixed sequences. Practical implementations of quantum do not require extreme conditions—such as planets in —and can be simulated without the use of gravity. The discovery of quantum properties of time can lead to better quantum devices in the upcoming era of quantum computers.


Explore further

How Einstein's equivalence principle extends to the quantum world

More information: Magdalena Zych et al. Bell's theorem for temporal order, Nature Communications (2019). DOI: 10.1038/s41467-019-11579-x
Journal information: Nature Communications

Citation: Quantum gravity's tangled time (2019, August 22) retrieved 19 September 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-08-quantum-gravity-tangled.html
This document is subject to copyright. Apart from any fair dealing for the purpose of private study or research, no part may be reproduced without the written permission. The content is provided for information purposes only.
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Aug 22, 2019
If a particle on earth and another in orbit are entangled:
When does the action at a distance, due to measuring either particle, take place?
A particle in orbit (with the faster clock) may be in the middle of next week already when I measure my particle on earth and check my slow clock.


Aug 22, 2019
Well, @Eye, it's a bit inaccurate, more like milliseconds and microseconds than days, but nevertheless in principle a good question. They've done entanglement experiments across town, and maybe across a few counties, but I don't think anyone's tried it from orbit. The problem is that entanglement decoheres; keeping an entangled particle from decohering on its way to orbit would be a challenge we can't currently meet. This is one of the big problems with quantum computers. But the experiment indicated by your question should be performed. And when technology has improved to that extent, it no doubt will be.

Now if you want to know what QM and GRT say about it, I might be able to find that out and tell you. And you've piqued my curiosity, so I'll probably spend some time on it.

Aug 22, 2019
I will tell you this: what is seen will depend not only on the frames of the two particles, but on the frames of various observers who will see different things from their different perspectives. There won't be a "correct" frame unless you as a single observer define your frame as such, which is against SRT, never mind GRT or QM.

Aug 22, 2019
China set an entanglement record of 736 miles more than a year ago. From a satellite to to separate locations on the surface of Earth. The Chinese lead research by a fair margin. America is not ahead in this game.
Mass absorbs time this has been known for awhile. The math on the described superposition is very similar to the math showing Hawking radiation as actually particles going into the black hole in reverse time, thereby appearing to come out.
At a certain point math constructs must be observed as numbers on a page, not reality.

Aug 22, 2019
You're correct, I should have looked it up: https://www.scien...distance

Looks like they're getting ready to do the experiment @Eye's question suggests.

Aug 23, 2019
"According to general relativity, the presence of a massive object slows down the flow of time. This means that a clock placed close to a massive object will run slower as compared to an identical one that is further away."

'Time' is only a Concept that is produced by the Mind/Brain/Thought due to the need of measuring the Duration of an Event or Action from beginning to end. There is NO FLOW of 'time. Time doesn't exist in reality. It is merely a descriptive word that has no substance; a Placeholder that enables the increments and ticking of a Clock to be counted during the Event/Action until the Action is done.
Mass can't absorb 'time'. That's silly. 'time' is all Smoke and Mirrors. It is only one Event/Action after another in a continuous and random motion.
The massive object has a gravitational pull which affects the mechanism inside the clock that is placed close to the massive object.
-contd-

Aug 23, 2019
It is ONLY Gravity that affects the mechanism of the Clock, but also according to the Clock's Altitude, Velocity and Direction. The Atomic Clock modifies itself according to these several conditions.
The "frames" of various observers is mere theory and has never been proven or even tried.
There is no magic to it, nor is there such a thing as 'time'. It was only from the fertile imagination of Hermann Minkowski who was Einstein's former teacher that the concept of 'time' evolved.

Aug 23, 2019
Atomic clocks don't use gravity. They also aren't radioactive.

Just sayin'.

Aug 23, 2019
If a particle on earth and another in orbit are entangled:
When does the action at a distance, due to measuring either particle, take place?
A particle in orbit (with the faster clock) may be in the middle of next week already when I measure my particle on earth and check my slow clock.
says EyeNStein

The clock that's in orbit runs faster b/c there is less gravitational drag on its mechanism. If an atomic clock, then its jumping Electrons in the Caesium are moving faster. Again, less drag. The atomic clock in orbit ONLY HAS ITS MECHANISM MOVING FASTER DUE TO LESS GRAVITY ON IT. It has NOT gone into next week because it is STILL MOVING WITH THE EARTH'S ROTATION, which is the 24 hour rotation that is the sunrise to sunrise cycle.
It's the same with a Particle in orbit. It is still moving according to the 24 hour Earth rotation. However, if that clock and Particle are above a planet in the Virgo cluster, the clock will need to modify according to the 45 hour rotation cycle.

Aug 23, 2019
@EyeNStein
I'm just using 45 hour rotation of that planet's sunrise to sunrise cycle as an example. EVERY planet that orbits a Star has a sunrise to sunrise cycle as it rotates and its rotational duration can be any amount of hours, minutes and seconds. Gravity is essential on any planetary body. It keeps the regolith from flying into outer space.
I didn't say that Atomic Clocks USE gravity. I said that Gravity AFFECTS THE MECHANISM of the clock's motion. At Altitude, the clock runs faster. At sea level it runs slower than at altitude due to the effects of gravity on the MECHANISM.

Aug 23, 2019
JFTR, cesium clocks are made with ¹³³Cs, the only stable isotope. It's chosen because it's quite easy to separate from the other isotopes of Cs.

Cesium clocks are dependent only upon the frequency generated by the transition of electrons between the hyperfine levels of the ground state, where the electron spin is either parallel or opposed to the nuclear spin. The cesium atoms will absorb the difference, and then emit it again a small fraction of a second later, in a maser. Thus a maser that can serve as a clock can be constructed without difficulty, which is why cesium clocks are used as a universal time standard in the SI system.

Gravity is not used. The cesium is not radioactive; it's the only stable isotope of cesium, chosen because it is one of very few elements with only one stable isotope.

So much for @Scientology_Sperm_Unit's bullshit.

Aug 23, 2019
Nobody said that gravity is used. Gravity is there onboard, and it affects the jumping Electrons, making the mechanism of the clock go faster. The same kind of clock at sea level will slow down, which means that the Caesium in the clock is also affected by Gravity.

Aug 23, 2019
Now you lie about what you said.
The massive object has a gravitational pull which affects the mechanism inside the clock
It doesn't. Nobody has to include gravity equations to determine the clock's rate in its own frame.

What a dumbshit, Last time I looked you were claiming less gravity slowed time down.


Aug 23, 2019
What does "at a specified time" mean for two starships in different places? How are their clocks synchronized? If they start out at the same location with clocks synchronized, doesn't the acceleration needed to move to a different location cause their clocks to move at different rates unless they accelerate in identical fashion?

Aug 23, 2019
Everett (and Sean Carroll) must be right. There must be many worlds. If time scrambling happens, how could reality recover and merge into a single world again across a potentially unlimited number of GR frames?

Aug 23, 2019
no ralph, it does not mean "must be right"

even if you had the math & observations to "prove" that the single world theories are wrong?

does not prove ANY alternative claims are correct

then you have the sillyegghead's quandary of coming up with working technology based on those alternative theories

(hint) if an atomic bomb successfully blows up your city?
ALL the alternative theories are looneytick frauds

Aug 23, 2019
So this is very interesting! They simply use clocks and positions as Einstein did, to operationally realize diffeomorphism-invariant - general relativistic - events and then observe how non-relativistic quantum mechanic states behave. It is a low energy, low field, low velocity, non-perturbative theory independent, combining of the two physics theories, rounding the fact that you cannot define (a local) quantum operator of time. It depend neither on decoherence nor Planck scale to do this. Let us see if anyone find a problem, but they give some references of similar combinings - it seems to be a feature of nature.

Of course I like it, if it works, since it seems a feasible quantum gravity theory is simply to invoke perturbation and quantize gravity [ http://www.schola...d_theory ]. It breaks down at Planck scales well after all the other quantum particle fields has, so not a problem outside of black holes.

Aug 23, 2019
When does the action at a distance, due to measuring either particle, take place?


First, a nitpick. There is no physics action in decoherence since no signal is transmitted, it is a null energy process. The paper is explicit in this, for convenience they refer to a distant observer though anything works. The only condition: "Therefore, any protocol aimed at testing operationally quantum features of temporal order necessarily requires a measurement of the control system." I.e. you must measure the distant observer system, it sees one or the other time order, depending on the position of the heavy mass.

But mind: "There won't be a "correct" frame unless you as a single observer define your frame as such". GR still applies so if your distant observer is not inertial the proposed method will not work out as intended.


Aug 23, 2019
How are their clocks synchronized?


Oh, the same question again, I missed to include it in my previous comment answering it.

Everett (and Sean Carroll) must be right. There must be many worlds.


Since they arrived to their result without using decoherence, it is either orthogonal to MW or weakening the theory - MW is not specifically needed to understand GR+QM.

And this seems just odd:

Mass absorbs time this has been known for awhile. The math on the described superposition is very similar to the math showing Hawking radiation as actually particles going into the black hole in reverse time,


This does not make sense, which is likely why you do not give references. So, I have this great looking bridge in San Francisco I can sell to you ...

Aug 23, 2019
Wait.. that's MY bridge .

Aug 23, 2019
hey, torbjorn, don't muscle in on my racket!

i got him sold on buying the London Bridge in Arizona

we're just working out safe delivery to anonymous me of his payment owed through an obscure offshore bank

yeah, such a clever boy because the "customer" is always altright

somehow etherair found out the secret to the bridge's reconstruction
& i could use a big pile of cash to stuff my mattress with at this time

oh! the secret?

when Howard Hughes imported the original bridge, he had the bricks pulverized
used that dust as plaster to conceal the gold bullion
HH had "borrowed" from Ft. Knox
without anyone noticing!
go figure...

i suspect etherair had borrowed the sillyegg's ouiija board & communed with the spectre of Howard Hughes directly, to discover the stash of gold?

so don't queer my deal

Aug 23, 2019
Now you lie about what you said.
The massive object has a gravitational pull which affects the mechanism inside the clock
It doesn't. Nobody has to include gravity equations to determine the clock's rate in its own frame.

What a dumbshit, Last time I looked you were claiming less gravity slowed time down.

says Schneib the Liar

I said, "The massive object has a gravitational pull which affects the mechanism inside the clock that is placed close to the massive object." Yes it does. You left out the rest of my comment.
You don't understand English too well, do you, Schneib?
I had said that, "The clock that's in orbit runs faster b/c there is less gravitational drag on its mechanism.." That is word-for-word. I did NOT mention the nonexistent 'time'.

You really need to improve your skills of comprehension, Schneib. People can go back and read what was actually said, you know. You think that you can lie your way out of the truth, Schneib?

Aug 23, 2019
hey, torbjorn, don't muscle in on my racket!

i got him sold on buying the London Bridge in Arizona

we're just working out safe delivery to anonymous me of his payment owed through an obscure offshore bank

yeah, such a clever boy because the "customer" is always altright

somehow etherair found out the secret to the bridge's reconstruction
& i could use a big pile of cash to stuff my mattress with at this time

oh! the secret?

when Howard Hughes imported the original bridge, he had the bricks pulverized
used that dust as plaster to conceal the gold bullion
HH had "borrowed" from Ft. Knox
without anyone noticing!
go figure...

i suspect etherair had borrowed the sillyegg's ouiija board & communed with the spectre of Howard Hughes directly, to discover the stash of gold?

so don't queer my deal
says rrwillsj

STILL no maths or science coming out of you, eh rrwlliejoe? Just some bad stupidity that you regularly bring to physorg to lessen its importance

Aug 23, 2019
It's always been vexing that while an electron can pass both slits simultaneously in a double slit experiment it has never been made clear what happens with the gravity of the electron while this happens. Is half of it at each slit? Is the total amount localized in between? The described quantum time ordering may be a way around the conundrum.

Aug 23, 2019
We can't measure the gravity of an electron. It's too small.

Aug 23, 2019
Sez Egg:

"The clock that's in orbit runs faster b/c there is less gravitational drag on its mechanism.."

......alias effects of the co-efficient of friction.

Aug 24, 2019
Benni
9 hours ago
Sez Egg:

"The clock that's in orbit runs faster b/c there is less gravitational drag on its mechanism.."

......alias effects of the co-efficient of friction.
-2


Uh, oh, I see schneibo & rrwills don't believe in the co-efficient of friction when it comes to clock mechanisms..........it's too "sciencey", too much action by co-efficient generated by forces of kinetic energy in keeping the gear wheels turning one another.

So suggests schneibo, let's try moving electrons around in an atomic clock? Sorry schneibo, also simply expenditure of kinetic energy at the smaller scales of shorter distance. Electrons cannot be moved around independent of the WORK required to move them, this generates heat just like the co-efficient of friction generates heat. The rubber must always meet the road 100% of the time or WORK to move something across a specified distance cannot be accomplished.

Aug 24, 2019
Wait.. that's MY bridge .

Really?
Who sold it to you?
Wait...we shouldn't go there.
/sarc

RNP
Aug 24, 2019
@Benni
.... let's try moving electrons around in an atomic clock? Sorry schneibo, also simply
expenditure of kinetic energy at the smaller scales of shorter distance. Electrons cannot
be moved around independent of the WORK required to move them, this generates heat just
like the co-efficient of friction generates heat.


I suggest that you learn something about atomic clocks. The timing is based on transitions
of electrons between orbitals *within* atoms. You cleaarly don't understand the physics if
you think that these were subject to anything like friction.

Although irrelevant to discussions of atomic clocks, you should also bone up on Newtons's
Laws of Motion; (https://www.grc.n...n.html).

Aug 24, 2019
Whydening Gyre> Wait.. that's MY bridge .

antigoracle> Really?
Who sold it to you?
Wait...we shouldn't go there.
/sarc

No, you're supposed to go under them... they're very popular, apparently, so I've heard

Aug 24, 2019
.... let's try moving electrons around in an atomic clock? Sorry schneibo, also simply
expenditure of kinetic energy at the smaller scales of shorter distance. Electrons cannot
be moved around independent of the WORK required to move them, this generates heat just
like the co-efficient of friction generates heat.


I suggest that you learn something about atomic clocks. The timing is based on transitions
of electrons between orbitals *within* atoms. You cleaarly don't understand the physics if
you think that these were subject to anything like friction.
.....how little you comprehend all the principles of Thermodynamics.

The KINETIC ENERGY that moves electrons around inside atoms is calculated exactly the same as the kinetic energy that moves the hands of a clock.

You last shot off your mouth when you declared Neutron Emission Decay does not exist, now you do a followup repeat & declare kinetic energy is not required to move orbital electrons around within an atom.

Aug 24, 2019
Tangled minds!

Aug 24, 2019
Here's a company that makes cesium clocks for Stratum-1 timeservers: https://www.micro...ferences

You can get a pretty good one (sufficient for astronomical use) for under US$5,000, if you got five grand burning a hole in your pocket.

Aug 24, 2019
Though these days, they're also making microchips that can do it too, there are references out there, and Amazon has a page full of them- note however that these are only commercial grade, not scientific grade. You can get one of this grade for around US$20.

The relentless march of technology foils the physics liar deniers yet again; it was fun making you look stupid. Thanks for the opportunity.

Aug 24, 2019
Sez schneibo:

The relentless march of technology foils the physics liar deniers yet again; it was fun making you look stupid. Thanks for the opportunity.


........you mean like this:

I suggest that you learn something about atomic clocks. The timing is based on transitions
of electrons between orbitals *within* atoms. You cleaarly don't understand the physics if
you think that these were subject to anything like friction.
......the KINETIC ENERGY that moves electrons around inside atoms is calculated exactly the same as the kinetic energy that moves the hands of a clock.

RNP clearly does not understand what physics is required to make electrons move around inside a cesium atom does he? At least NOW you do, you don't understand it of course, but that's why Benni is here, and by the way, you're welcome ahead of time.

Aug 24, 2019
Ummmm, @Benni, @RNP understands it far better than you do. Electrons aren't little "planeties" "orbitising" around "nucleusies." If there was friction they would stop. There isn't anything to stop them, and nothing much ever does.

Like most janitors you don't have a single clue about atomic physics.

Get a clue: your YouBoob and whatever dumbshit TV you watch depend upon these time standards, they wouldn't work without them, and you are an idiot.

Aug 24, 2019
It's always been vexing that while an electron can pass both slits simultaneously in a double slit experiment it has never been made clear what happens with the gravity of the electron while this happens. Is half of it at each slit? Is the total amount localized in between? The described quantum time ordering may be a way around the conundrum.
says antialias

I thought that was a Photon. But an Electron, being a Particle cannot divide itself in order to enter BOTH slits, as far as I'm aware. Correct me if I'm wrong. Gravity would stay with the original Electron.

Aug 24, 2019
Ummmm, @Benni, @RNP understands it far better than you do. Electrons aren't little "planeties" "orbitising" around "nucleusies." If there was friction they would stop.
.....there is kinetic energy friction loss in everything that moves, this is the problem of comprehension of PHYSICS for those of you so steeply lost in the fantasies of Pop-Cosmology.

There isn't anything to stop them, and nothing much ever does.
.....now you're even suggesting it's a waste of materials to put insulation on wires? Hey, you of far less than stellar idiocy, because I built the house I live in, I know all the wires in my house have insulation on them & that the insulation jacket does a real fine job getting electrons flowing to exactly where I want them flowing.

I now wonder what your house wiring must look like?


Aug 24, 2019
there is kinetic energy friction loss in everything that moves
Not electrons in atoms.

Here in the real world.

What do you think, there's littule teeny tinuy little microatomsies taht make microfrictionies on teh electronies orbitising around the nucleusies?

What an idiot.

Aug 24, 2019
Sez Egg:

"The clock that's in orbit runs faster b/c there is less gravitational drag on its mechanism.."

......alias effects of the co-efficient of friction.
says Benni

Friction is not involved, Benni. The kinetic energy comes from the Electrons in the Caesium133 that was placed inside the Atomic Clock. The Electrons are free-moving/jumping and it is that Energy that moves the mechanism of the Clock. But it is Gravity that determines how fast or how slow the mechanism will move, according to the Altitude, Velocity, Direction (East or West) in which the Atomic Clock is traveling.
The same kind of clock on the ground at sea level has its mechanism moving slower due to the stronger gravitational pull on the mechanism by the Earth, even though the Electrons are still jumping (kinetic energy) in the same way as the one at higher altitude.
Forget about friction in this case, ok?

Aug 24, 2019
Wait.. that's MY bridge .

Really?
Who sold it to you?
Wait...we shouldn't go there.
/sarc

Inherited from a great uncle or something....

Aug 24, 2019
The Atomic Clock's mechanism is Mass, and since Gravity has an effect on Mass, the farther away from the Earth's surface an object with a mechanism is, the faster its mechanism moves. That's with OR without the Caesium133. The Cs133 is only to enable the clock to continue running for a thousand years or so.

Aug 24, 2019
there is kinetic energy friction loss in everything that moves
Not electrons in atoms.

Here in the real world.

What do you think, there's littule teeny tinuy little microatomsies taht make microfrictionies on teh electronies orbitising around the nucleusies?

What an idiot.


OK Schnieb, that's enough. You're starting to get on my nerves with your constant bickering like you've got PMS. Just stick to science.

Aug 24, 2019
it is Gravity that determines how fast or how slow the mechanism will move
Nope. Max Born worked it out, and wrote a standard textbook: Atomic Physics is the title. It's all based on Dirac's quantum electrodynamics.

Born won a Nobel Prize in Physics. I am just guessing here /s, but I'm going with he was way smarter than you are, @Scientologist_Sperm_Unit.

Aug 24, 2019
BTW, I'm looking around and it looks like you can get atomic clocks from maybe 15 or 20 vendors. Why don't you buy a bunch of them and compare them? Keep you from posting more stupid shit on the Intertubez.

Aug 24, 2019
And since I mentioned it, Atomic Physics was published in 1935, by Blackie Press. It's been revised several times since. You can take classes in physics based on it today. Do try to keep up.

Aug 24, 2019
As I said, "it is Gravity that determines how fast or how slow the mechanism will move".
Gravity acts on Mass. At altitude, gravity is still the determinant on whether or not Mechanisms move faster or slower. The Cs133 in the clock cannot overpower the effects of gravity. It's only in the clock to keep it running, not how fast or slow it runs.

Aug 25, 2019
I would much prefer to buy a bunch of Geiger counters for the future. You should consider it too.

Aug 25, 2019
It has nothing to do with gravity. It has everything to do with charge.

Electric charge is far more powerful than gravity. But unlike gravity it has an opposite.

Why do you freaks never get this?

Aug 25, 2019
Gravity in the Presence of this Electrons Electrifying Electric Field
DaSchneib> Electric charge is far more powerful than gravity.

this scrumptious electron
goes weak at the knees
in the presence of this proton

for this electron
exerts 230.4 Newton's electrically
at one Femto-metre

where as this electron
exerts 6.1x10-71 Newton's gravitationally
at one femto-metre

Thank heavens for traditional Japanese Haiku

Aug 25, 2019
Temporal flow of time exhibiting genuine quantum features: by The University of Vienna

Traditional
Japanese
Haiku

Quantum
Mechanics
Gravity

According to general relativity
the presence of a massive object
slows down the flow of time

This means that a clock
placed close to a massive object
will run slower to one further away

rules of quantum theory
allow any object in a superposition state
A superposition state of two locations

theories of quantum mechanics and gravity
are notorious for being incompatible
despite efforts over these past fifty years

an international team
of physicists from the University of Vienna
have combined the key elements of these two theories

describing the flow of time
discovered temporal order between events
exhibit genuine quantum features

Aug 25, 2019
A Cloak in Time: by PW - 05 Jun 2013

Not content with shielding objects in space
physicists have come up with a new way of concealing events in time
research involves punching series of temporal holes
into stream of optical data at gigahertz frequencies
using commercially available equipment
leading to applications in telecommunications and computing
that involve hiding or dividing up information.

Spatial invisibility cloaks are shields
made up of artificial metamaterials
that bend light waves around an enclosed object
as if neither the object nor the cloak were present
as a stream of water would flow around a boulder

A number of such devices
have been built and successfully demonstrated
and now physicists are turning their attention
to temporal cloaks
which hide events
during specific periods of time
Slowing down and speeding up time

https://physicswo...in-time/

Aug 25, 2019
The Electrons are free-moving/jumping and it is that Energy that moves the mechanism of the Clock
.....there is no such thing as "free moving" mass, it's ALL about KE=1/2mv² from which the principles of the math for calculating the Co-Efficient of Friction is derived.

A value of 0 means no friction exists between objects of mass, this is only theoretically possible, there is no such thing as a Co-Efficient value of 0 for moving objects at ANY quantum level. ALL objects of mass have some friction when upon any movement they touch other particles, it's the reason overloaded electrical conductors get hot.

A Co-Efficient value of 1 means the frictional force is equal to the normal force. However, do not imagine that a coefficient of friction can never be more than 1, this is not true. A coefficient of friction that is more than one just means that friction is stronger than the normal force, like when an object hits a stone wall & gives up all it's kinetic energy.

Aug 25, 2019
FRICTION - FORCE - KINETIC ENERGY - VELOCITY

When travailing at 90%c
is the force of friction, Benni
the same as at 1m/s

for then
the kinetic energy of friction
is Fv or Fc +1/2mv²

RNP
Aug 25, 2019
@Benni
You post above is hysterical!

Another of your 100% wrong posts.

It shows an absolute ignorance of even the most basic physics. It is so full of nonsense that everybody reading it (scientifically educated or not) will see it for the nonsense it is.

As I advised you in my previous post, learn Newton's Laws of Motion, because your claims contradict them. Then learn some atomic physics (most obviously, but not only, realize there are no particles for electrons to interact with when they transition between states WITHIN AN ATOM).

Aug 25, 2019
These Two Giants: Albert and Isaac

For this kinetic energy is a canny beast, in motion, in momentum, in velocity
there is an anomaly
unnoticed these 300 years
that seems to have gone over everyone's heads
after these 300 years, dear old Isaac is still standing tall
foreth, Benni
there is this conspiracy
fore we like our conspiracies on this phys.org
what happens to this force accelerating
this one kg of inertial mass
Moving at 99.9999%c

Aug 25, 2019
Then learn some atomic physics (most obviously realize there are no particles for electrons to interact with when they transition between states WITHIN AN ATOM.
......putting you firmly in the fantasyland of Pop-Cosmology in which you imagine there is a value of Co-Efficient of Friction that is ZERO when it is not possible such a thing can exist except in the dark recesses of your immutable fantasies.

there are no particles for electrons to interact with when they transition between states WITHIN AN ATOM).
.....transitioning electrons hit maximum friction after they give up all their kinetic energy when transitioning between orbits, you simply are unable to comprehend the laws of thermodynamics.

Aug 25, 2019
as I advised you in my previous post, learn Newton's Laws of Motion,
......from which 19th century science you have continued that ludicrous PARTICLE LIGHT THEORY by which claims are made that the strength of the field of gravity determines the ESCAPE VELOCITY of an electro-magnetic photon wave.

You have never comprehended the fact ESCAPE VELOCITY is calculated from 1/2mv² & not E=mc², thus the fact ESCAPE VELOCITY has no applicability to electro-magnetic waves, but you keep trying.

RNP
Aug 25, 2019
@Benni
Hahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahaha

Your last two posts above are an incredible combination of nonsensical and irrelevant rubbish. For your own sake learn some physics, because, at the moment, you do nothing but make a monumental ass of yourself every time you post.

RNP
Aug 25, 2019
@Benni
In relation to your silly claims about energy:

The full Einstein equation for energy is E²=m²c⁴+p²c².

This reduces to E=mc² for a stationary (p=0) massive particle.

For low velocities (v much less than c) the KE can be shown by algebraic manipulation to be *estimated* by 1/2mv².

It also gives E=pc for masslees (m=0) particles such as photons.

THESE are the equations that Einstein derived, and that I and everybody else use to draw the conclusions that you so frequently mock.

The fact that you do not grasp these basics again shows how totally clueless you are.

Aug 25, 2019
Da scheide spukkt
We can't measure the gravity of an electron. It's too small

"The first experiment to measure the charge/mass ratio of the electron, the Millikan Oil Drop Experiment, involved measuring the different rate at which drops of oil accelerated (due to gravity) after a single electron ionized off. So, in fact the first experiment measuring the mass of the electron measured the gravitational mass."

-Make a sign. Tape it to your computer. 'Before I post I will look shit up.'

RNP
Aug 25, 2019
@TheGhostofOtto1923
The Millikan Oil Drop Experiment did not measure the gravity of an electron. Rather, it allowed an estimation of the inertial mass. No measure of the gravity at all!

Make a sign. Tape it to your computer. 'I will understand what someone is saying to me before I comment'.

RNP
Aug 25, 2019
@TheGhostofOtto1923
Just to make my previous post clearer, the Millikan Oil Drop Experiment required the *assumption* of the gravitational attraction between the electron and the Earth (as suggested by the inertial mass of the electron and the assumption of the equivalence principle). I did NOT measure it.

Aug 25, 2019
good try RNP
but thegaspofotto1392BC
will never have the self-awareness to admit
that the sign
pertains to himself...

typical looney,
big ego, little intellect

Aug 25, 2019
Both FORCE and MASS remain the same at any velocity!

But what of force F, RNP
RNP> The full Einstein equation for energy is E²=m²c⁴+p²c².

For to get mass m
up to velocity c
whichever formula is favoured
there's no escaping FORCE, F

There is this conspiracy
fore we like our conspiracies on this phys.org
what happens to this force accelerating
this one kg of inertial mass
Moving at 99.9999%c

Both FORCE and MASS remain the same at any velocity!

Aug 25, 2019
Foreth, RNP

The implication of this law of our vacuum - Both FORCE and MASS remain the same at any velocity!

Cometh to accelerating mass m with force F
Foreth, it matters not
Whichever formula is favoured
It takes the same time to accelerate mass m to 99.9999%c
Because RNP, you guessed it
Both FORCE and MASS remain the same at any velocity!

Aug 25, 2019
The implications of this law of our vacuum - Both FORCE and MASS remain the same at any velocity!

1, the length of time to accelerate mass m to c is proportional to force F
2, the energy expended getting mass m to c is is proportional to force F
3, inertial mass remains the same at any velocity
4, the force F remains the same at any velocity
5, mass m is inertial mass

Staffordshire University: the formula E = MC² is not inertial mass, but kinetic energy!

Aug 25, 2019
@Benni
Hahahahahahaha

Hahahahahahaha

Your last two posts above are an incredible combination of nonsensical and irrelevant rubbish. For your own sake learn some physics, because, at the moment, you do nothing but make a monumental ass of yourself every time you post.


Seconded! Hear, hear! Well said that man!
IOW; STFU Benni, you are bloody clueless.

Aug 25, 2019

Your last two posts above are an incredible combination of nonsensical and irrelevant rubbish. For your own sake learn some physics, because, at the moment, you do nothing but make a ***monumental ass*** of yourself every time you post.


Or ***monumental arse*** on this side of the pond.

A monumental arse;

https://ilovetypo...2_LR.jpg


Aug 25, 2019
Sez RNP:

The full Einstein equation for energy is E²=m²c⁴+p²c²
....not quite:

E²=m²c⁴+p²c² is only based upon a presumption an electro-magnetic wave can have mass so that momentum can be included as p², but it can only have momentum if it has mass, otherwise it is simply pure energy with zero mass causing the p²c² to drop out of the equation as zero.

When Einstein calculated the deflection of a light ray (gravitational lensing) as it passed the peripheral disc of the Sun, he presumed the MASS of the light ray to be ZERO & calculated the deflection accordingly, but you probably will never comprehend why he made such a presumption.

I guess you think an electro-magnetic wave has MASS......that's tinfoil hat stuff & not surprising you'd believe it. This is the PARTICLE LIGHT theory of 19th Century Cosmology that was discredited when Heinrich Rudolf Hertz proved in the 1880's light is a wave with constant velocity, he just didn't know what the velocity was.

Aug 25, 2019
@Da Schneib
@RNP
@Castro.

Careful. @Benni's "friction" observation is valid, as 'friction' can arise in all manner of ways, between fields. Hence the 'orbits' and 'shells' RESONANCE ORDERING in GRAVITATIONAL and ELECTRONIC 'settled configuration' patterns arising due to the 'friction' between the various bodies/electrons as they interact 'at a distance' gravitationally and/or electromagnetically. So, in essence, all interactions within a collection of possible locations within an orbital/electronic 'shell' system 'settle' because of that 'friction'. Your own definition/explanation of 'friction' was too narrow; so @Benni was correct to apply the 'friction' aspect to the settling/moving of an electron between 'excited resonance' and 'ground resonance' shells for that particular electron within that Cesium Atom's 'shells' arrangement given the input energy to excite that transition from one shell to the other, and then emit same to fall back again. Take care, guys. :)

Aug 25, 2019
@Da Schneib
@RNP
@Castro.

Careful. @Benni's "friction" observation is valid, as 'friction' can arise in all manner of ways, between fields. Hence the 'orbits' and 'shells' RESONANCE ORDERING in GRAVITATIONAL and ELECTRONIC 'settled configuration' patterns arising due to the 'friction' between the various bodies/electrons as they interact 'at a distance' gravitationally and/or electromagnetically. So, in essence, all interactions within a collection of possible locations within an orbital/electronic 'shell' system 'settle' because of that 'friction'. Your own definition/explanation of 'friction' was too narrow; so @Benni was correct to apply the 'friction' aspect to the settling/moving of an electron between 'excited resonance' and 'ground resonance' shells for that particular electron within that Cesium Atom's 'shells' arrangement given the input energy to excite that transition from one shell to the other, and then emit same to fall back again.
......UnrealRC goes RealRC.


Aug 25, 2019
@Benni.
......UnrealRC goes RealRC.
Always been RealRC, mate; it's just personal opinions based on mistaken perceptions that prompted anyone in the past to say I was ever anything other than RealRC. Good luck in your future discussions, @Benni.....and everyone. Play nice. :)

Aug 25, 2019
Woa! hear the gentleman out!

@Da Schneib
@RNP
@Castro.

RealityCheck> Careful. @Benni's "friction" observation is valid, as 'friction' can arise in all manner of ways, between fields. Hence the 'orbits' and 'shells' RESONANCE ORDERING in GRAVITATIONAL and ELECTRONIC 'settled configuration' patterns arising due to the 'friction' between the various bodies/electrons as they interact ...

on second thoughts
disregard that remark
this is too difficult to de-punctuate to decipher

Aug 25, 2019
@TheGhostofOtto1923
The Millikan Oil Drop Experiment did not measure the gravity of an electron. Rather, it allowed an estimation of the inertial mass. No measure of the gravity at all!
That wasn't my comment.

"If inertial mass and gravitational mass seem to match up wherever we look, why point at electrons and ask "I wonder if their inert/grav ratio is different"?

"Is there any indication that electrons might have a disparity between inertial and gravitational mass?

"If electrons have a different inertial/gravitational ratio, why not any other particle?
And if any particle can have different iner/grav ratios then their apparent equivalence is a hell of a coincidence."

-I could keep posting quotes from that forum, or you could just go over there and pretend you know what you're talking about with people who actually do.

See how far you'll get.

Try your own little sign... 'when otto posts a QUOTE' I should google it before exposing myself.'

Tape it to your nuts

Aug 25, 2019
It has nothing to do with gravity. It has everything to do with charge.

Electric charge is far more powerful than gravity. But unlike gravity it has an opposite.

Why do you freaks never get this?
says Schneib

Why do you try to change science facts? The ONLY way that EM (electric charge) can overpower Gravitational pull on Mass IS IF that Mass (such as an Atomic Clock) is FAR AWAY from a planetary body such as Earth, and Gravity is no longer much of an issue. The atomic clocks with its Cs133 is STILL in close enough proximity to the Earth's surface to have its mechanism affected by Gravity, Because the clock is at a higher altitude, the gravitational pull of its mechanical structure is far less than at sea level, thus allowing the mechanism to move faster.

The mechanism of an Atomic Clock in interstellar space, with Cs133 would be virtually in "Free-Fall" with nothing to control the clock's mechanical movements. But it will keep running for 25k Earth years.

Aug 25, 2019
Because the clock is at a higher altitude, the gravitational pull of its mechanical structure is far less than at sea level, thus allowing the mechanism to move faster.
......co-efficient of friction changes with changes in gravity acting upon the mechanism.

Atomic clocks are MECHANISMS, right down to every electron that's counted in the electron stream within the clock. All movement of anything mechanical is subject to forces of friction, this resulting in loss of kinetic energy whereby movement within that mechanism slows down because WORK is being accomplished on the mechanism releasing infra-red heat energy.

Aug 25, 2019
@Benni
Is the giving up of kinetic energy by the Electrons as they jump and then regain it a form of "friction", or is it the 'heat' from the many Electrons that causes the friction? But there are varying degrees of 'friction', just as there are varying degrees of Gravity, yes?

So, basically you are saying that each and every PARTICLE is a MACHINE. I can agree with that. Everything in existence is a mechanism.

Aug 25, 2019
Atomic clocks as mechanical constructs

Atomic clocks are MECHANISMS
right down to every electron
that's counted in the electron stream within the clock
All movement of anything mechanical
is subject to forces of friction
this resulting in loss of kinetic energy
whereby movement within that mechanism
slows down because WORK is being accomplished
on the mechanism releasing infra-red heat energy

for dear old Albert
is a cursed
to remain
in this spirit world

finaly Albert's night draws close
this curseths about to be broken
maybe this is this one
that caneth
freeth dear old Albert

Canterville Ghosts: by Oscar Wilde,

"When a golden girl can win
Prayer from out the lips of sin,
When the barren almond bears,
And a little child gives away its tears,
Then shall all the house be still
And peace come to Canterville."

And Albert Einstein
is freed from these shackles
of this Spirit World

Aug 25, 2019
"Canterville Ghost" is one of my favourite stories. Can't seem to recall the name of the lead actor, offhand. A British subject, he. Thanks for the reminder.

Albert Einstein, gone to his just rewards, hath all of eternity to think upon all of the sorrows he hath placed on the brow of his fellow man. Fission was only the beginning.

Aug 25, 2019
more importantly, seu
is to find peace and happiness on this earthly earth
for as

"When a golden girl can win
Prayer from out the lips of sin,
When the barren almond bears,
And a little child gives away its tears,
Then shall all the house be still

this earthly earth is where Albert's exist, seu
for just as you are conscience of your self
a new born babe is conscience of its self
for when everyone shuffles this mortal coil
a new born babe is a born anew conscience of its self
just as you were, seu
all those years ago
as your days draw near
you will be that babe, born conscience of its self, born anew

fore this is stronger than any belief in the ever after!

Aug 25, 2019
Is the giving up of kinetic energy by the Electrons as they jump and then regain it a form of "friction", or is it the 'heat' from the many Electrons that causes the friction?
.....resistive forces are ALWAYS present for any state of matter. Look at my Ohm's Law comment in the next paragraph.

But there are varying degrees of 'friction', just as there are varying degrees of Gravity, yes?
Yes, often referred to as Ohm's Law whereby the resistance of the path to electron flow must be overcome. For example, make the conducting medium too small for the number of electrons you're trying to move & things can get hot in a hurry, this is FRICTION.

So, basically you are saying that each and every PARTICLE is a MACHINE. I can agree with that. Everything in existence is a mechanism.
.....yes, but also go back to that other guy's Comment (RC), he put a lot of good stuff into a very short space, he's coming back to reality after a long absence.

Aug 25, 2019
It might depend on how we track time. Then again. A clock on the ships synced together? In a gravity field slowing its effective time, it will also slow the shot the same amount of time thereby allowing the ship to move. If the time is sent via msg, It seems to me that the received msg is also delayed as well as the shot.

Aug 25, 2019
Sez RNP:

The full Einstein equation for energy is E²=m²c⁴+p²c²
....not quite:

E²=m²c⁴+p²c² is only based upon a presumption an electro-magnetic wave can have mass so that momentum can be included as p², but it can only have momentum if it has mass, otherwise it is simply pure energy with zero mass causing the p²c² to drop out of the equation as zero.

When Einstein calculated the deflection of a light ray (gravitational lensing) as it passed the peripheral disc of the Sun, he presumed the MASS of the light ray to be ZERO & calculated the deflection accordingly, but you probably will never comprehend why he made such a presumption.

I guess you think an electro-magnetic wave has MASS......that's tinfoil hat stuff & not surprising you'd believe it. This is the PARTICLE LIGHT theory of 19th Century Cosmology that was discredited when Heinrich Rudolf Hertz proved in the 1880's light is a wave with constant velocity, he just didn't know what the velocity was.

Aug 25, 2019
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Aug 25, 2019
more importantly, seu
is to find peace and happiness on this earthly earth
for as

"When a golden girl can win
Prayer from out the lips of sin,
When the barren almond bears,
And a little child gives away its tears,
Then shall all the house be still

this earthly earth is where Albert's exist, seu
for just as you are conscience of your self
a new born babe is conscience of its self
for when everyone shuffles this mortal coil
a new born babe is a born anew conscience of its self
just as you were, seu
all those years ago
as your days draw near
you will be that babe, born conscience of its self, born anew

fore this is stronger than any belief in the ever after!
says granville

If Albert Einstein is to return as a newborn babe in this climate of destruction of the newly born, it would be fitting to pray for his Soul, that those who are his parents have no such thoughts as to kill the innocent babe for the sake of convenience, as is happening now in the USA.

Aug 25, 2019
@granville
Humans are a strange lot. They are so terribly concerned that life as they know it might end when the Oxygen in the atmosphere gives out, leaving only the unbreathable CO2 and Methane.
But they are also quick to extend to those who are with child the option of eliminating the life and lives that may be the hope of the future - of the civilised world.
For what do they know of those lives, granville? If you believe in Reincarnation, then to snuff out the lives of those who are waiting to come back to this life will be having them again throwing off this "mortal coil", again to return to the shadows, never again seeing the light of day.
If you believe in Reincarnation, then any one of those newborns who are destined for destruction could BE the new embodiment of Albert Einstein's consciousness. There is just no telling what might have been.
He would have told us that there is no such thing as Quantum Gravity's Tangled 'Time'. And that the whole idea is absurd.

Aug 26, 2019
"Canterville Ghost" is one of my favourite stories. Can't seem to recall the name of the lead actor, offhand. A British subject, he. Thanks for the reminder
Sicko's pretending to be a brit now.

Aug 26, 2019
"Canterville Ghost" is one of my favourite stories. Can't seem to recall the name of the lead actor, offhand. A British subject, he. Thanks for the reminder
This is like the time you were pretending to be a sweet sorghum farmer. Or a NASA engr. Remember THAT? Or a black psychiatrist haha

What IS the matter with you pussytard?

Aug 26, 2019
Interesting - an insight, into, the human psychic

"When a golden girl can win
Prayer from out the lips of sin,
When the barren almond bears,
And a little child gives away its tears,
Then shall all the house be still

In this
quantum gravitational
world we exist

Fore this is stronger, than any belief, in the ever after?

Aug 26, 2019
SEU, this world in which you live

Is not this world of these country thatched hollyhock flowered lanes
Is not these ancient Shire country lanes
for SurveillanceEggUnit, a period of quite reflection is required, in this world in which you exist
It is not this world, that exists, in these hallowed halls
These Cambridge Colleges
Where all the worlds' people meet in Kings Parade, this world famous, St John's College
SurveillanceEggUnit, your Bridge awaits
For you hath fallen into this mire, this world of goblins and their trolls
So take this opportunity, SurveillanceEggUnit
To take this time in quite reflection, under your Bridge, complete with babbling brook

SurveillanceEggUnit, your bridge a waits

RNP
Aug 26, 2019
@Benni
E²=m²c⁴+p²c² is only based upon a presumption an electro-magnetic wave can
have mass so that momentum can be included as p², but it can only have momentum
if it has mass, otherwise it is simply pure energy with zero mass causing the p²c²
to drop out of the equation as zero.


Complete balderdash. Indeed, another epic Benni fail in relation to simple/basic physics.

Of course photons have momentum! It is given by p=h/lambda, where h is the Planck constant
and lambda is the wavelength of the photon, or p=hf/c, where f is the frequency
.
This is again high-school physics that you should know!!! So here is a short video to help
you stop making a fool of yourself ( https://study.com...ons.html ).


RNP
Aug 26, 2019
@Benni
Here is a better link for the lesson you need; https://www.youtu...z-QSDyOM

Aug 26, 2019
RNP
Concerning dear old Albert and his aerobics

this demonstration
of electromagnetic energy
striking a surface

the reason why
electrons are ejected at velocity from the surface
electrons absorb electromagnetic energy

what bearing, RNP
has electromagnetic energy
got to do with a particle

foreth, as you know RNP
a particle cannot travel at light speed
electromagnetic energy is absorbed, and emitted at lightspeed

therefore, RNP
as electrons absorb and emit photons at lightspeed
photons are therefore massless

so the moral of this sorry tale
there is no wave particle duality
because, particles cannot travel at lightspeed

only electromagnetic energy, travels at lightspeed
only electromagnetic energy, reflects at lightspeed
electrons, interact with, electromagnetic energy, at lightspeed

Where do particles come into this sorry tale, RNP?

Aug 26, 2019
The experiment to prove photons have momentum is simple and has been done many times: suspend a mirror, and illuminate it with a bright light. The force on the mirror can be measured and can only be caused by the momentum of the photons since they have no mass. This is, BTW, how solar sails work. And we've just seen an article on here in the last month or so with a solar sail tacking in orbit.

Aug 26, 2019
Da Schneib
The experiment to prove photons have momentum is simple and has been done many times: suspend a mirror, and illuminate it with a bright light. The force on the mirror can be measured and can only be caused by the momentum of the photons since they have no mass. This is, BTW, how solar sails work. And we've just seen an article on here in the last month or so with a solar sail tacking in orbit.

Electromagnetic energy is massless
you have not got to look at this literally, Da Schneib
it is one of those questions
that are this dividing lines between momentum and energy
fore when this energy reflects in this femto-world
energy can reflect in momentum without actual mass
for Da Schneib
it is mimicking a stream of water in reflection on impellors

This is one of these quirky quantum effects, momentum without mass, just massless energy

Aug 26, 2019
SEU, this world in which you live

Is not this world of these country thatched hollyhock flowered lanes
Is not these ancient Shire country lanes
for SurveillanceEggUnit, a period of quite reflection is required, in this world in which you exist
It is not this world, that exists, in these hallowed halls
These Cambridge Colleges
Where all the worlds' people meet in Kings Parade, this world famous, St John's College
SurveillanceEggUnit, your Bridge awaits
For you hath fallen into this mire, this world of goblins and their trolls
So take this opportunity, SurveillanceEggUnit
To take this time in quite reflection, under your Bridge, complete with babbling brook

SurveillanceEggUnit, your bridge a waits
says granville

I have been to that bridge and I see the trolls that lie in wait underneath it. They tell their lies as though it were gospel truth, but anybody who knows these trolls are quite aware that such trolls are the best liars there are. And that troll is Otto

Aug 26, 2019
The experiment to prove photons have momentum is simple and has been done many times: suspend a mirror, and illuminate it with a bright light. The force on the mirror can be measured and can only be caused by the momentum of the photons since they have no mass. This is, BTW, how solar sails work. And we've just seen an article on here in the last month or so with a solar sail tacking in orbit.


A Solar Sail is a nice thing to have in deep space if it is equipped with a good camera to photograph the planets, moons and asteroids. No telescopic lens needed.
But one of the concerns might be Solar Flares. How would a Solar Sail deal with that.

Aug 27, 2019
Momentum without Mass
Da Schneib
The experiment to prove photons have momentum is simple and has been done many times: suspend a mirror, and illuminate it with a bright light. The force on the mirror can be measured and can only be caused by the momentum of the photons since they have no mass. This is, BTW, how solar sails work. And we've just seen an article on here in the last month or so with a solar sail tacking in orbit.

Electromagnetic energy is massless
you have not got to look at this literally, Da Schneib

Da Schneib
A way of looking at massless momentum
Take a gyroscope
In precession
The greater the force - the greater it resists - by increasing precession
Almost Da Schneib, it is increasing its mass
The speed of precession, is proportional to gyroscopes angular spin
This is how electromagnetic energy is mimicking momentum without mass
Da Schneib
Remove the force of precession
The gyro stops precessing
For there never was any momentum at all

Aug 27, 2019
Momentumless Precession – momentum of massless photons

Da Schneib, take a 1kg-gyro, a 10kg-gyro or even a 1000kg-gyro
it matters not the rotating mass of this precessing-gyro
Foreth Da Schneib
If you have 10kg-gyro precessing at 10rads/s
or
You have a 1000kg-gyro precessing at 1000rads/s
Remove the force of precession
The gyro instantaneously stops dead - for there is no momentum, irrespective of mass

It is as so this 1000kg-gyro is massless moving at 1000m/s
Fore take this 1000kg-gyro
When it is not spinning
Move this 1000kg-gyro as a 1000kg mass at 1000m/s its momentum returns

Momentum of massless photons:
Is all in this electromagnetic-energy's, "precessional-angular-spin" in this femto-world


Aug 27, 2019
This Scrumptious Electrons Frictionless Magnetic Field

This needs clarification!
Take this scrumptious electron - with it magnetic and electric field
Why do Maglev-trains favour magnetic fields, instead of wheels?
Then again
Take this electron in close femto-metre proximity
This 230.4 Newton's of force per scrumptious electron at 1Femto-metre
This opposition is just like magnetism, frictionless!

As this scrumptious electron is frictionless, electrically and magnetically
Where is this scrumptious electrons friction in this mire - tis a mystery?

Aug 27, 2019
The experiment to prove photons have momentum is simple and has been done many times: suspend a mirror, and illuminate it with a bright light. The force on the mirror can be measured and can only be caused by the momentum of the photons since they have no mass. This is, BTW, how solar sails work.
.....so-called reflection of light is NOT how solar sails work.

When light strikes the atoms of a material, it can set the electrons of those atoms into excitation. Excited electrons subsequently produce an electromagnetic wave that radiates in all directions.

These newly generated waves strike nearby atoms, thus in turn forcing their electrons into excitation at the original frequency & producing more excited electrons producing emission of EM waves that continues to radiate in every direction.

This is not about PRESSURE created by MOMENTUM of an incident photon crashing into the surface of something & creating pressure, it is about partial polarization subsequent to that.


RNP
Aug 27, 2019
@Benni
Again, more incoherent nonsense.

Polarization has nothing to do with it. Added to which, you are denying the conservation of momentum!

I appreciate a good laugh, so, how are you going to try and justify that!!!

Aug 27, 2019
@Benni

Excited electrons, LOOK OUT!!!!!!!

Aug 27, 2019
''imagine a pair of starships training for a mission. They are asked to fire at each other at a specified time, and immediately start their engines in order to dodge each other's attack. If either of the ships fires too early, it will destroy the other, and this establishes an unmistakable time order between the firing events. If a powerful agent could place a sufficiently massive object, say a planet, closer to one ship it would slow down its counting of time.''

This is a FALSE narrative. The Mass that is closer to a starship would ONLY have an effect to allow the MECHANISM of the clock to run faster or slower, depending on how close to the surface of Mass the starship is. Away from the effects of Mass, the starship will be more dependent on its Velocity toward c. And if there are humans on board, it is their MINDS that are in control of the ship and its weaponry, NOT the clocks. There would be no "time order", as it is the human MIND which will determine when to fire.

Aug 27, 2019
Excitation in all directions

Benni> When light strikes the atoms of a material, it can set the electrons of those atoms into excitation. Excited electrons subsequently produce an electromagnetic wave that radiates in all directions.

When "excitation in all directions" the explanation for momentum in reflected light, is null and void, Benni

Aug 27, 2019
foreth, Benni
excitation in all directions
is quasi-directional-neutral

Aug 27, 2019
Polarization has nothing to do with it. Added to which, you are denying the conservation of momentum!
....and you don't even know what that is.

I appreciate a good laugh, so, how are you going to try and justify that
,,,,,a better laugh RNP/Castro is your beliefs that Perpetual Motion machines exist, like schneibo's description of a solar sail, making a common mistake by likening it to the reflectivity of a mirror.

Aug 27, 2019
I have been to that bridge
Did you consider jumping? No? Take a mirror with you next time.

Aug 27, 2019
this solar sail
as Benni repeatedly points out
is gossamer thin

when this earthly laser
reflects of this gossamer thin sail
it does so in all direction

for this thin sail
is so thin, these excitations reflect straight through this sail
this sails excitations are quasi-directional-neutral

but as Benni has also repeatedly pointed out
this gossamer thin sail, in this, "cough" vacuum
this vacuum is riddled with zillions of micro-meteorites, making a Swiss cheese out of this sail

Aug 27, 2019
Solar Flares. How would a Solar Sail deal with that
Why dont you just pretend you know, like you do everything else? Hey - why dont you evoke that NASA engr persona and ask him? You know, the one with all those patents and the 6 figure salary? I bet SHE knows.

[pussytard, NASA ENGR] "a source of mirth and merriment for us all. Anyway, I took a few days off from NASA" [re the Curiosity rover landing:] "they're calling me back to the station..." "sheer luck that the camera was pointed in the right direction...We did not anticipate it" "we were surprised to see what later turned out to be a cloud of dust from the impact. We had no way of telling immediately what it was, although some suggested that it might be the sky-crane but, being that it was the first mission into Gale Crater, there was a lot of speculation going round. That was a good day for all... "I haven't slept very much since the approach to the planet...I'm back on duty in a couple of hours."

-you freakshow.

Aug 27, 2019
Partial Polarization in Laser Induced Electron Excitation: by Benni

So-called reflection
of light is NOT how
solar sails work.

When light strikes the atoms of a material,
it can set the electrons of those atoms into excitation
Excited electrons
subsequently produce an electromagnetic wave
that radiates in all directions

These newly generated waves
strike nearby atoms
thus in turn
forcing their electrons
into excitation
at the original frequency
& producing more excited electrons
producing emission of EM waves
that continues to radiate in every direction.

This is not about PRESSURE
created by MOMENTUM
of an incident photon
crashing into the surface
of something
& creating pressure
it is about partial polarization subsequent to that

Aug 27, 2019

Partial Polarization by Newly Generated Waves

These newly generated waves
strike nearby atoms
thus in turn
forcing their electrons
into excitation
at the original frequency
& producing more excited electrons
producing emission of EM waves
that continues to radiate in every direction.

when these waves excite electrons
where these excited electrons emit waves at the original frequency
is polarisation

Aug 27, 2019
Polarization has nothing to do with it. Added to which, you are denying the conservation of momentum!
....and you don't even know what that is.

I appreciate a good laugh, so, how are you going to try and justify that
,,,,,a better laugh RNP/Castro is your beliefs that Perpetual Motion machines exist, like schneibo's description of a solar sail, making a common mistake by likening it to the reflectivity of a mirror.
says Benni

Benni, the ONLY REAL "Perpetual Motion" that I/we know of is the Clockwork of the Universe, which I have mentioned already before. I believe that both YOU and Whyde agreed with me. It is not merely a theory. Everything is in constant motion, commensurate to that Universal Clock.
The 'Conservation of Momentum' is, I believe, the conservation of kinetic energy in a movable object. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Aug 27, 2019
Sez granDy:

when these waves excite electrons
where these excited electrons emit waves at the original frequency
is polarisation


Shhhhhh, not so loud granDy, you may be upsetting someone's perpetual motion view of the Cosmos.

Aug 27, 2019
Has anyone seen Castrovagina lately making comments? I wonder how the odd old fellow is these days.

Aug 27, 2019
The 'Conservation of Momentum' is, I believe, the conservation of kinetic energy in a movable object.
.........depends if the contact between two objects is ELASTIC or INELASTIC as to what is conserved.

Kinetic Energy is all about motion. When objects collide but bounce away from one another both momentum & kinetic energy are conserved, no energy (heat) is lost in the ELASTIC collision.

In an INELASTIC collision the objects do not bounce away from each, as result, heat is generated during the collision therefore energy to the system is lost. Gear wheels of a clock is a good example.

Has anyone seen Castrovagina lately making comments? I wonder how the odd old fellow is these days.
......he's been here as usual, it's RNP.

Aug 27, 2019
@Benni
Thanks for clarifying it for me. As you know, I am but a mere scholar and interested observer. :)

So RNP is Castrovagina's alter-ego? I had never suspected.

According to Otto the fat Nazi looneytick, I am a "racist black man named Richie from Russia with pussycat eyes who wears Obama's socks while doing a pirouette".
I'm telling you, Benni, it can't get any better than this for laughs. LOL
Oh, and he also thinks that I'm an engineer that works for NASA. ROFLOL

Aug 27, 2019
I believe that both YOU and Whyde agreed with me. It is not merely a theory. Everything is in constant motion, commensurate to that Universal Clock.
.......well Egg, somehow we got here, where it all started I have no clue & not much of an opinion.

I only KNOW FOR SURE the Universe is an enclosed defined space probably in the shape of a chicken egg, no pun intended. I wonder if people know why eggs are oval shape, it has to do with the conservation of energy I'm told.

I see the Universe as being eternally recyclable, nothing is ever lost to the system, that mass & energy are consistently & equivalently transforming keeping ENTROPY to the system fixed such that it NEVER changes preventing the Universe from fizzling out, so in this setting I do not see timing events, just things happening as events require reaction because of action (newton here).

Where would I look for a Universal Clock? Would it predestine everything?


Aug 27, 2019
Agreed. And since EVERYTHING is recycled and recyclable, there is no need for any more expansion of the Universe. We have everything that we need already, and there is nothing new under that Clock. Which incidentally is not in only one place, Benni, the Clock of the Universe is everywhere you look.
Do you recall my discussion with Whyde regarding the Rotation of each planet as being the Clock of each planet? And that the Duration of the rotation of each planet in the Universe is different? This means that eg, the 24 hour rotation cycle of the Earth is different from the ____ hour rotation cycle of another planet, not just in our Solar System, but EVERYWHERE that planets exist. Every planet is mechanised to have a "run cycle" according to its rotation/spin. We call it 'time', but there is no such thing as 'time', which is only a convenient word to describe Duration. The Clock of the Universe could be described as the Master Clock, which controls galactic rotations.

Aug 27, 2019
Benni, what is the most "natural" geometric figure? It is round (planets, Stars) or oval (galaxies). It is never squared or triangular. Round and oval shapes are also the shapes of Quantum Particles and sub-particles. It is most convenient for all purposes in the Cosmos. It HAD TO BE.

Aug 27, 2019
The SPHERE is the most natural geometric shape there is. It mimics the shape of the Universe in which everything exists.

Aug 27, 2019
Every planet is mechanised to have a "run cycle" according to its rotation/spin. We call it 'time', but there is no such thing as 'time', which is only a convenient word to describe Duration. The Clock of the Universe could be described as the Master Clock, which controls galactic rotations.
.....how cosmic bodies rotate seems dependent on other things around it.

By your reckoning galaxies are the single biggest clocks, is that what you're saying? But how about the Universe as the sum total of EVERYTHING? It too would be classed as a single body because like galaxies, has a boundary inside of which dictates LOCAL EVENTS inside that boundary. I guess I could view this as your concept of the UNIVERSAL CLOCK.

Aug 28, 2019
Every planet is mechanised to have a "run cycle" according to its rotation/spin. We call it 'time', but there is no such thing as 'time', which is only a convenient word to describe Duration. The Clock of the Universe could be described as the Master Clock, which controls galactic rotations.
.....how cosmic bodies rotate seems dependent on other things around it.

By your reckoning galaxies are the single biggest clocks, is that what you're saying? But how about the Universe as the sum total of EVERYTHING? It too would be classed as a single body because like galaxies, has a boundary inside of which dictates LOCAL EVENTS inside that boundary. I guess I could view this as your concept of the UNIVERSAL CLOCK.


Cosmic bodies such as planets rotate according to its spin velocity. Each planet has a different spin velocity that are referred to as hours, minutes, seconds. A smooth planet with no mountains might rotate faster due to less drag from its grav pull.

Aug 28, 2019
Amusing to watch @Scientologist_Sperm_Unit and @Benni fluffing each other.

Too bad they're too busy with pr0n to bother with science. But typical of them both.

Aug 28, 2019
There is also the distance between the planet and its Star that determines its spin velocity. But basically, the planet itself, along with its magnetic field and other factors determine how fast or slow it rotates. You could probably say that the magnetic field is almost like a 'pendulum', while at times, the planet tilts and North becomes South.
Galaxies are the secondary Master Clocks. All the Stars within each galaxy are moving according to every other Star. Except for occasional collisions, the Stars keep a good distance from each other. That is also like the mechanism of a clockwork. So each galaxy keeps its own rotation while within it, each Star maintains its own spin and each planet near its Star maintains its own rotation.
Exactly like the precision of clockwork.
The Universal Clock also keeps to its own clockwork movement/momentum where all the galaxies follow around in a continuous path - the ones behind follow the ones out in front in a magnificent procession.

Aug 28, 2019
So, as you can see, Benni. The whole Universe and everything in it is highly mechanised like a woundup clock. Basically smooth running and with few glitches.

Aug 28, 2019
classical gravity is also tangled with thime. chk out
https://www.scrib...savvys84

Aug 28, 2019
This Frame of Reference - That Never Was

This Universe, the sum total of EVERYTHING - as a Single Body
Benni> By your reckoning galaxies are the single biggest clocks, is that what you're saying? But how about the Universe as the sum total of EVERYTHING? It too would be classed as a single body because like galaxies, has a boundary inside of which dictates LOCAL EVENTS inside that boundary. I guess I could view this as your concept of the UNIVERSAL CLOCK

For what is a single body?
In terms of frames of reference
Fore as we sit on this earth, all in one single frame of reference
As we all rotate together, in our Galaxy, in one frame of reference
We all rotate as one, in our Single, Universal, frame of reference

This Universe
Collectively rotating
This Singular Frame of Reference

Fore this Reality: There never was, a frame of reference, in this first Place!

RNP
Aug 28, 2019
@Benni
Polarization has nothing to do with it. Added to which, you are denying the conservation of momentum!
....and you don't even know what that is.

I appreciate a good laugh, so, how are you going to try and justify that
,,,,,a better laugh RNP/Castro is your beliefs that Perpetual Motion machines exist, like schneibo's description of a solar sail, making a common mistake by likening it to the reflectivity of a mirror.


This is just a truly pathetic attempt to hide the fact that you so not know what you are talking about.

To prove me wrong, explain how a solar sail gains momentum.

You can't do it can you?

As I say pathetic.

Aug 28, 2019


Cosmic bodies such as planets rotate according to its spin velocity. Each planet has a different spin velocity that are referred to as hours, minutes, seconds. A smooth planet with no mountains might rotate faster due to less drag from its grav pull.


Hahahahahahahaha! Nurse, he's out of bed again!

Aug 28, 2019
Too bad they're too busy with pr0n to bother with science. But typical of them both.
......hey, schneibo, you're the one who believes in all the perpetual motion machinations of the Pop-Cosmology Culture war you engage in with those of us who challenge you to prove your conjectures that the immutable laws of physics are not immutable.

That pathetically preposterous MIRROR explanation for solar sails that your copied off the internet was so laughable that I couldn't even laugh, yet you vainly imagine you were some kind of wizard of smart to put forth yet another one your Pop-Cosmology perpetual motion machines imagining that electro-magnetic waves create PRESSURE to push things around. You just don't know why those sails are made of specific kinds of materiel so as to induce electron excitation that end results in the energy output to forward thrust the sail, but you're not a science guy, so what else could we expect from you.

Aug 28, 2019
The Universal Clock also keeps to its own clockwork movement/momentum where all the galaxies follow around in a continuous path - the ones behind follow the ones out in front in a magnificent procession.
........a not so bad description of a barycenter of motion.

The Universe has a center, barycenters of motion dictate it. But just like we plainly observe in the motions of star clusters that have formed into small galactic structures, the center of mass is EMPTY.

Because the center of the Universe is in all likelihood patterned after barycenter motion, it thus is probably almost empty of mass as is the case for all barycenter star clusters, except we up the scales to galactic structures. What we know is that everything is moving, but persistent galactic collisions PROVE the movement is not the result of expansion or these collisions could not occur, ENTROPY rules, it's the great cosmic overseer, it can't be defeated.

Aug 28, 2019
And since EVERYTHING is recycled and recyclable, there is no need for any more expansion of the Universe
Right so we should just call it off then.

This reminds of other such pussytard gems

"The solar system was big enough to accommodate
all planets and other bodies"

"Photons do not experience gravitational pull in general...
A photon is affected by gravitational forces only if those forces
are strong enough to have any effect on the photon"

"Splitting of the subatomic components (electrons)"

"increments are also conceptualized by the mind
as it doesn't naturally occur in nature" [like uh quanta]

"The cat may split into 2 equal and identical parts
where one half remains inside the box in its original state
and the other 'twin' enters into a quantum level of existence"
[Yeah, like that]

-Now there's some poetry eh?

Her brain experienced heart death long ago. Lard is a poor conductor of heat. And god did not make her skull big enough to accommodate all the clutter.

RNP
Aug 28, 2019
@Benni
Complete and utter BS!!! And everybody knows it.

Come on, explain the physics!

You can't can you?

That's because you are desperately inventing nonsense in an attempt to obfuscate your absolute ignorance of the subject.

How can you live with the embarrassment? Anybody with any self-respect would have given up as soon as they realized they were out of their depth.

Again, profoundly pathetic.

Aug 28, 2019
The 'Conservation of Momentum' is, I believe, the conservation of kinetic energy in a movable object.
.........depends if the contact between two objects is ELASTIC or INELASTIC as to what is conserved.

Kinetic Energy is all about motion. When objects collide but bounce away from one another both momentum & kinetic energy are conserved, no energy (heat) is lost in the ELASTIC collision.

Wrong.

Aug 28, 2019
Benni, what is the most "natural" geometric figure? It is round (planets, Stars) or oval (galaxies). It is never squared or triangular. Round and oval shapes are also the shapes of Quantum Particles and sub-particles. It is most convenient for all purposes in the Cosmos. It HAD TO BE.

You've seen too many "Artist Interpretations"...

Aug 28, 2019
Electro-magnetic waves only have momentum with mass: by Benni

E²=m²c⁴+p²c²
Is only based upon a presumption
An electro-magnetic wave
Can have mass
So that momentum
Can be included as p²
But it can only have momentum
If it has mass
Otherwise it is simply pure energy
With zero mass
Causing the p²c²
To drop out of the equation as zero.
When Einstein
Calculated the deflection
Of a light ray
(gravitational lensing)
As it passed
The peripheral disc of the Sun
He presumed the MASS
Of the light ray
To be ZERO
& calculated the deflection accordingly
But you probably
will never comprehend
Why he made such a presumption.
I guess you think
An electro-magnetic wave has MASS
That's tinfoil hat stuff
& not surprising you'd believe it
This is the PARTICLE LIGHT theory
Of 19th Century Cosmology
That was discredited
When Heinrich Rudolf Hertz proved
In the 1880's
Light is a wave
With constant velocity
He just didn't know what the velocity was

Pity Poor Momentum
Electro-Magnetic Waves
Are Massless

Aug 28, 2019
Sez granDy:

when these waves excite electrons
where these excited electrons emit waves at the original frequency
is polarisation


Look there @Benni talking to his sock puppet, scintillating.

Shhhhhh, not so loud granDy, you may be upsetting someone's perpetual motion view of the Cosmos.

Aug 28, 2019
Macavity's a ginger cat, when you think he's half asleep, he's always wide awake

Macavity's a ginger cat,
he's very tall and thin;
You would know him if you saw him,
for his eyes are sunken in.
His brow is deeply lined with thought,
his head is highly domed;
His coat is dusty from neglect,
his whiskers are uncombed.
He sways his head from side to side,
with movements like a snake; And when you think he's half asleep,
he's always wide awake.

Schrödinger's cat
a hypothetical cat
a paradox,
simultaneously
both awake
and asleep
at the same time!

So now we know
What children's books
physicist Erwin Schrödinger
been reading in his dreams
his hypothetical moggy
when you think he's half asleep,
he's always wide awake.

is so like Macavity's
it could be Macavity
because, you would never know
Macavity or Schrödinger
when you think there half asleep,
there always wide awake

Aug 28, 2019
MACAVITY, THE MYSTERY CAT by TS Eliot Macavity's a Mystery

Thomas Stearns Eliot, born in St. Louis, Missouri, in September 26, 1888
Laid to rest in London, England, United Kingdom in January 4, 1965
Wrote
His masterly "Macavity" written in 1939 ..

https://www.googl...OXVKoHtA

Aug 28, 2019
"Her brain experienced heart death [HEAT DEATH] long ago"

-spellcheck ruins another perfectly good punchline.

Aug 28, 2019
The 'Conservation of Momentum' is, I believe, the conservation of kinetic energy in a movable object.
.......depends if the contact between two objects is ELASTIC or INELASTIC as to what is conserved.

Kinetic Energy is all about motion. When objects collide but bounce away from one another both momentum & kinetic energy are conserved, no energy (heat) is lost in the ELASTIC collision.


Sez Whyguy:

Wrong.
.........you imagine yourself as being such a wizard of smart, then YOU correct it.

Aug 28, 2019
And meanwhile the solar sail worked. @Benni claims it can't.

Just sayin'.

Aug 28, 2019
The 'Conservation of Momentum' is, I believe, the conservation of kinetic energy in a movable object.
.......depends if the contact between two objects is ELASTIC or INELASTIC as to what is conserved.

Kinetic Energy is all about motion. When objects collide but bounce away from one another both momentum & kinetic energy are conserved, no energy (heat) is lost in the ELASTIC collision.


Sez Whyguy:

Wrong.
.........you imagine yourself as being such a wizard of smart, then YOU correct it.
Just can't imagine why you would say no energy was removed form either object. BOTH of those colliding (yet bouncing off) masses, absolutely HAD to have given off some energy to somewhere, in their absorbing of incoming energy and the resultant angular change of direction...
WHERE it went doesn't even hardly matter...

Aug 28, 2019
The 'Conservation of Momentum' is, I believe, the conservation of kinetic energy in a movable object.
.......depends if the contact between two objects is ELASTIC or INELASTIC as to what is conserved.

Kinetic Energy is all about motion. When objects collide but bounce away from one another both momentum & kinetic energy are conserved, no energy (heat) is lost in the ELASTIC collision.


Sez Whyguy:

Wrong.
.

........you imagine yourself as being such a wizard of smart, then YOU correct it.


Just can't imagine why you would say no energy was removed form either object. BOTH of those colliding (yet bouncing off) masses, absolutely HAD to have given off some energy to somewhere, in their absorbing of incoming energy and the resultant angular change of direction...
WHERE it went doesn't even hardly matter
........then quit the yammering & CORRECT IT !!!! Maybe you'd like to suggest something about FRICTION?

Aug 28, 2019
Actually what happens is redshift. This accounts for the momentum lost in the elastic collision.

Aug 28, 2019
The Universal Clock also keeps to its own clockwork movement/momentum where all the galaxies follow around in a continuous path - the ones behind follow the ones out in front in a magnificent procession.
........a not so bad description of a barycenter of motion.

The Universe has a center, barycenters of motion dictate it. But just like we plainly observe in the motions of star clusters that have formed into small galactic structures, the center of mass is EMPTY.

Because the center of the Universe is in all likelihood patterned after barycenter motion, it thus is probably almost empty of mass as is the case for all barycenter star clusters, except we up the scales to galactic structures. What we know is that everything is moving, but persistent galactic collisions PROVE the movement is not the result of expansion or these collisions could not occur, ENTROPY rules, it's the great cosmic overseer, it can't be defeated.
says Benni

YES. all correct.

Aug 28, 2019
@Benni
The Laws of Thermodynamics (in which you are well-versed) are Laws that command everything from the largest in the Universe to the smallest sub-particles and are unchangeable, just as Matter/Energy cannot be destroyed.
Everything has a centre. But, as I've said, the sphere, circle, oval are the most logical shapes for Stars. planets, galaxies, and the Universe as a whole. It is that roundness that allows for precise smooth regulation of motion/momentum within the clockwork that is the planet, Star, galaxy and the Universe. Without that clockwork, Benni, there would be no self-order and there would only be chaos, utter randomness, and galactic and Stellar collisions everywhere that you look.
Without the clockwork there would have been no Big Bang and expansion of Space.

Aug 28, 2019
MACAVITY, THE MYSTERY CAT by TS Eliot Macavity's a Mystery

Thomas Stearns Eliot, born in St. Louis, Missouri, in September 26, 1888
Laid to rest in London, England, United Kingdom in January 4, 1965
Wrote
His masterly "Macavity" written in 1939 ..

https://www.googl...OXVKoHtA
says granville

I thoroughly enjoyed this T.S.Eliot poem. Thanks. It's a good one.

Aug 28, 2019
The 'Conservation of Momentum' is, I believe, the conservation of kinetic energy in a movable object.
.......depends if the contact between two objects is ELASTIC or INELASTIC as to what is conserved.

Kinetic Energy is all about motion...
says Benni

Just can't imagine why you would say no energy was removed form either object. BOTH of those colliding (yet bouncing off) masses, absolutely HAD to have given off some energy to somewhere, in their absorbing of incoming energy and the resultant angular change of direction...
WHERE it went doesn't even hardly matter ///says Whyde
........then quit the yammering & CORRECT IT !!!! Maybe you'd like to suggest something about FRICTION?
says Benni

I was watching a video of Bernie Sanders punching a ball at a gym. The ball returned and punched Bernie in the face, throwing him backwards, where his arms went upward to catch himself. I tend to believe that Bernie lost some energy and the ball gained some.

Aug 29, 2019
Unfortunately for POTUS candidate Bernie Sanders, he forgot to duck and weave to avoid being hit in the face by the ball. By doing so, he might have avoided losing that certain amount of energy that made him fall back after being hit in the face by the ball. The ball, of course, reacted to the collision with Bernie's head by reacting as though it had also been hit on its surface (which it had).
Luckily for us, someone was filming the whole thing, otherwise we would never have known that POTUS candidate has a glass chin.
I am not really certain if the collision was elastic or inelastic.

Aug 29, 2019


Cosmic bodies such as planets rotate according to its spin velocity. Each planet has a different spin velocity that are referred to as hours, minutes, seconds. A smooth planet with no mountains might rotate faster due to less drag from its grav pull.


Hahahahahahahaha! Nurse, he's out of bed again!
says Castrovagina

That's right, jonesy. By "spin velocity", I mean the duration of the planet's ROTATION velocity where its sunrise to sunrise cycle is measured in hours, minutes and seconds. Perhaps I should not have said "spin velocity" since you seem to have not understood what it means. So I will have to remember to say "rotational velocity" from now on so that you will comprehend it better, yes?

Sad to see that your skills of comprehension are waning in your old age. Drink more prune juice.

Aug 29, 2019
Spin Velocity
"why is spin velocity called spin velocity? My interpolation is he meant that velocity is a change in position and thats not what we're trying to refer to in beyblade but I'm not sure about that..."

"the relationship between throwing distance and kinematic release parameters of the flying disc in unskilled throwers, and to assess the relationship between kinetic variables acting on flying discs and the change in spin velocity"

"Spin Velocity Wedges combine soft carbon steel with computer CNC milled flat faces and engraved scoring grooves to provide the ultimate in feel, accuracy and spin."

-Apparently pussytard is confusing astrophysics with the performance of her toys, possibly the pleasure potential of the gadgets she likes to shove betwern her legs?

This is not that kind of site pussytard.

Aug 29, 2019
And the solar sail worked - but did it?

DaSchneib> And meanwhile the solar sail worked. @Benni claims it can't.

Just sayin'.

But did it work?

for to work
it has to work
in the conventional sense

in that
this laser
reflects of this sail

but did it reflect
photons reflecting in flight
photons are massless in flight and reflection

because photons
reflect at lightspeed
photons are massless

massless lightspeed photons
are like precessing gyroscopes
are momentumless

and yet
the solar sail worked
but did it?

maybe it is more mundane
the energy of photons heating this solar sail
the sails molecules evaporating

evaporating this sails surface
this Newton's 3rd Law in molecule reaction
of equal and opposite reaction

Aug 29, 2019
Remember the spinning stabilised laser propulsion cone!

a metal cone
heated by laser beam
heating this atmosphere

where this cone goes
in this atmosphere
this laser is sure to follow

for above this atmosphere
the molecules occupying this vacuum
are heated by laser heated cone

for in comparison
of this energy in this photon
solar or laser photons makes no never mind

maybe it is more mundane
the energy of photons heating this solar sail
the sails molecules evaporating

evaporating this sails surface
this Newton's 3rd Law in molecule reaction
of equal and opposite reaction

This sail, or this cone, move through this vacuum by the propulsion of energetic atoms and molecules

Aug 29, 2019
THE CHRISTMAS LECTURES
Started by Michael Faraday in 1825

For this was pointed out on the Christmas Lectures
after
a demonstration
of laser light reflecting of a finely balanced surface
as the reason to this movement in reflection
because
Photons are massless in flight and reflection!

https://www.rigb....lectures

Aug 29, 2019
Spin Velocity
"why is spin velocity called spin velocity? My interpolation is he meant that velocity is a change in position and thats not what we're trying to refer to in beyblade but I'm not sure about that..."

"the relationship between throwing distance and kinematic release parameters of the flying disc in unskilled throwers, and to assess the relationship between kinetic variables acting on flying discs and the change in spin velocity"

"Spin Velocity Wedges combine soft carbon steel with computer CNC milled flat faces and engraved scoring grooves to provide the ultimate in feel, accuracy and spin."

-Apparently pussytard is confusing astrophysics with the performance of her toys, possibly the pleasure potential of the gadgets she likes to shove betwern her legs?

This is not that kind of site pussytard.
.........then why are you here to only be raising issues of a woman's nether regions? I even wished Egg would cease the same thing when addressing jonesy issues.

Aug 29, 2019
but did it reflect
photons reflecting in flight
photons are massless in flight and reflection
........the surface of the solar sail is made of a very specific material designed to absorb SPECIFIC EM wavelength.

Once a SPECIFIC wavelength has been absorbed by the surface metallic material (usually aluminum), the energy of the EM wave hits the outer orbital electrons of the subsurface material beneath it, thus EXCITING them & creating kinetic energy as those orbitals TRY jumping orbits but don't quite make it.

These outer orbital electrons enter a state of being EXCITED because they absorb the EM photon causing them to literally move around (kinetic energy) in a slightly higher energy state. When those electrons cease absorbing EM photons they FALL BACK to their original NONEXCITED state as they give up the same wavelength photon that was originally absorbed. As these outer orbital electrons cycle in & out of EXCITATION kinetic energy creates RECOIL action to the sail.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni
Light is made up of particles called photons. Photons don't have any mass, but as they travel through space they do have momentum. When light hits a solar sail—which has a bright, mirror-like surface—the photons in that light bounce off the sail (i.e. they reflect off it, just like a mirror). As the photons hit the sail their momentum is transferred to it, giving it a small push. As they bounce off the sail, the photons give it another small push. Both pushes are very slight, but in the vacuum of space where there is nothing to slow down the sail, each push changes the sail's speed.
http://www.planet...ing.html

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

"Solar sails harness light photons on a large surface called a sail. When light hits the "reflective layer of a solar sail there is a force applied to the solar sail due to the lights enormous speed. Lasers can also be used to propel a solar sailed powered spacecraft. When the photon hits the reflective layer, most of the photons bounce off the perpendicular to the sail surface."

"The photons that are not reflected are absorbed, then emitted though the emissivity layer in the form of thermal energy which has a negative effect on the spacecraft's speed as it produces a negative effect."

http://ffden-2.ph...ics.html

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

This is a good read.

"Momentum imparted to the sail by the reflecting photons introduces the extra term in (8). TheR parameter is a constant for a given sail material and is a fraction between zero and one.The light intensity (Ix) shown in (4) is an experimentally determined constant. Since the saildistance r is large compared to the solar radius, the intensity will fall off with the inverse squareof the separation distance, and be equal to..."

https://ntrs.nasa...3608.pdf


Aug 29, 2019
@Benni
Feynman Lecture

"27–6Field momentum

Next we would like to talk about the momentum in the electromagnetic field. Just as the field has energy, it will have a certain momentum per unit volume. Let us call that momentum density g. Of course, momentum has various possible directions, so that g must be a vector. Let's talk about one component at a time; first, we take the x-component. Since each component of momentum is conserved we should be able to write down a law that looks something like this: ..."

"It is also true for light. When we studied light in Volume I, we saw that when the energy is absorbed from a light beam, a certain amount of momentum is delivered to the absorber. We have, in fact, shown in Chapter 34 of Vol. I that the momentum is 1/c times the energy absorbed [Eq. (34.24) of Vol. I]. If we let U be the energy arriving at a unit area per second, then the momentum arriving at a unit area per second is U/c..."

http://www.feynma..._27.html

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

Photon Facts for Kids:

"Photons have a rest mass of 0 (zero). However, Einstein's theory of relativity says that they do have a certain amount of momentum. Before the photon got its name, Einstein revived the proposal that light consists of separate pieces of energy (particles). These particles came to be known as photons."

https://kids.kiddle.co/Photon

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

Most importantly. The math for photon momentum works!

Now lets see your math.

Re-posting this snippet for your review.

"The photons that are not reflected are absorbed, then emitted though the emissivity layer in the form of thermal energy which has a negative effect on the spacecraft's speed as it produces a negative effect."

http://ffden-2.ph...ics.html

Aug 29, 2019
Next we would like to talk about the momentum in the electromagnetic field. Just as the field has energy, it will have a certain momentum per unit volume. Let us call that momentum density g. Of course, momentum has various possible directions
.....I didn't study physics off the internet, there is no such thing as momentum of an EM Wave, this we know because because EM Waves do not RECOIL upon emission from the source, they contain no kinetic energy therefore cannot impart RECOIL.

The Sun does not RECOIL from it's EM emissions because they are MASSLESS, so how does a photon bouncing off the surface of a solar sail cause RECOIL EFFECT by REFLECTION of an EM Wave? It can't, it's as I described in the above Comment before making this one, it's the excitation state of substrate electrons beneath the metallic coating of the sail.

Get off the internet and go get a college physics & chemistry textbook if you are really serious about learning how these things work.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

Why do you think solar sails are made with a reflective surface? I challenge you to search online for solar sail material.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

When I visit family this weekend I'll grab my old physics text books, take screenshots, and send them too you.

Show me one of your Physics books that claims photons do not have momentum.
Show me!.

This is real Physics. Your brand of physics is "the physics of the internet"
When any tool can post whatever they want without any education whatsoever in a subject.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

I have a Bachelors of Science in Physics. Graduated in 1997 and guess what. All I used were textbooks. I still have them all. I'm grabbing them all this weekend just for you including the math books. I may even make a website to display the screenshots from the books just for you.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

Why do you think solar sails are made with a reflective surface? I challenge you to search online for solar sail material.
.....almost all metals have quite bright shiny surface, so what?

Metal surface coatings are used for the specific wavelength they absorb for the most efficient transmission of EM Waves to the substrate materiel beneath for the generation of the excitation state of that substrates outer orbital electrons, this is where the RECOIL effects occurs, this is by no means NOT a reflection at the overlaying metallic surface.

Your problem is that you simply do not comprehend that ALL MOTION of MASS ( the sail in this case) is caused by KINETIC ENERGY, EM Waves are E=mc² not 1/2mv², you don't know the difference.

RNP
Aug 29, 2019
@Benni
Here is a link to a paper describing "Design and Characterization of a Small-Scale Solar Sail " ( https://www.hinda...8467971/ )

It's opening sentence is "Solar sails are propellantless systems where the propulsive force is given by the momentum exchange of reflecting photons."

So, the people actually designing and making solar sails make it quite clear that your are, as usual, talking out of your rear end.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni
Here is a link to a paper describing "Design and Characterization of a Small-Scale Solar Sail " ( https://www.hinda...8467971/ )

It's opening sentence is "Solar sails are propellantless systems where the propulsive force is given by the momentum exchange of reflecting photons."

So, the people actually designing and making solar sails make it quite clear that your are, as usual, talking out of your rear end.

Which, apparently, is an insufficient propulsive force...

Aug 29, 2019
Excitation of Orbital Electrons in Surface Solar Sail Materials: by Benni

The surface of the solar sail
is made of a very specific material
designed to absorb SPECIFIC EM wavelength.

Once a SPECIFIC wavelength
has been absorbed
by the surface metallic material
(usually aluminium)
the energy of the EM wave
hits the outer orbital electrons
of the subsurface material beneath it
thus EXCITING them & creating kinetic energy
as those orbital's TRY jumping orbits but don't quite make it.

These outer orbital electrons
enter a state of being EXCITED
because they absorb the EM photon
causing them to literally move around
(kinetic energy)
in a slightly higher energy state
When those electrons cease absorbing EM photons
they FALL BACK
to their original NONEXCITED state
as they give up
the same wavelength photon
that was originally absorbed
As these outer orbital electrons
cycle in & out of EXCITATION
Kinetic energy creates RECOIL action to the sail.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

When an electron is excited in an atom that absorbs a photon. What happens to the electrons momentum?
It increases.
How on earth did that happen by absorbing a photon which according to you has no momentum!

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni
https://www.lives...rk-.html

"Solar sails work by capturing the energy from light particles as they bounce off a reflective surface, according to the Department of Energy. Each light particle has momentum, and when it strikes a reflective surface, it imparts that momentum to the reflective sheet, just like a collision of two billiard balls."

According to you a solar sail should be non-reflective and absorb as much light as possible.
Good luck getting anywhere with that sail guy man dude.

Aug 29, 2019
jimmybobber
jimmybobber> "Solar sails work by capturing the energy from light particles as they bounce off a reflective surface, according to the Department of Energy. Each light particle has momentum, and when it strikes a reflective surface, it imparts that momentum to the reflective sheet, just like a collision of two billiard balls."

According to dear old Albert
When a photon strikes a material
What did Albert find absorbed that photon?

p.s. fore jimmybobber, if you crack this thorny problem, Nobel Prizes, have been awarded, for less

Aug 29, 2019
Propulsion by Electron Recoil

don't lose track of this thread, jimmybobber
propulsion by electron recoil
is this unique angle on propulsion

Aug 29, 2019
Sigh Granville.

What happens when a photon isn't the right energy to be absorbed by an atom?

"Electrons in atoms and molecules can change (make transitions in) energy levels by emitting or absorbing a photon (of electromagnetic radiation), whose energy must be exactly equal to the energy difference between the two levels."
https://en.wikipe...gy_level

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni @Gran

Google metallic surfaces, free electrons, reflection.

Google and learn, or open a book.

Aug 29, 2019
"What happens when a photon isn't the right energy to be absorbed by an atom?"

"orbital electrons
enter a state of being EXCITED
because they absorb the EM photon
increasing their kinetic energy
in a slightly higher energy state
When these electrons cease absorbing EM photons
they then FALL BACK
to their original NONEXCITED state
as they give up
the same wavelength photon
that was originally absorbed"

In other words, what happened to quantised amounts of energy?
for an electron, to almost, then fall back
as long as the amount accepted, is emitted, as a photon, on this electron, falling back

for a photon reflected, is a photon absorbed, X-rays and gamma rays can be reflected

Aug 29, 2019
Try again:

"Electrons in atoms and molecules can change (make transitions in) energy levels by emitting or absorbing a photon (of electromagnetic radiation), whose energy must be exactly equal to the energy difference between the two levels."
https://en.wikipe...gy_level

Aug 29, 2019
@Gran

What happens when a photon isn't the right energy? What happens to all those extra photons can't be absorbed Gran?

x-rays and gamma rays are comprised of photons.

You said "X-rays and gamma rays can be reflected"

Therefore you agree that photons can be reflected.

Aug 29, 2019
Guys! All your respective arguments boil down to the ENERGY itself, regardless of the form that energy is in at various stages during interaction and absorption/re-emission. All the terms you are arguing over, ie, kinetic energy, momentum, mass/massless etc etc, all reflect the nature of ENERGY per se. It's the energy transfers (by whatever process) that causes the net-net resultant motional energy of the sail material commensurate with the net amount of photonic energy transferred by all the possible contributory interactions involved taken together. Calm down and talk with each other not at each other; and try to 'boil down' the factors to the underlying salient one(s) instead of arguing over semantical/mathematical 'overlays' to the real things actually involved/happening. Good luck. :)

Aug 29, 2019
Electron energy state transitions are probabilistic not deterministic. An electron doesn't immediately drop down to its ground state when not in the presence of photons to absorb.
What does "electrons cease absorbing EM photons" even mean? Are you suggesting an electron just keeps on absorbing photons until someone turns off the lights?

Do you just invent this stuff on the fly while posting on these forums?

Aug 29, 2019
"Solar sails work by capturing the energy from light
.....this is the only part that's right, "capturing the energy" is what occurs beneath the metallic overlay.

After the metallic overlay passes EM Waves of a specific frequency to the non-metallic substrate, those EM Waves are absorbed by outer orbital electrons of the substrate materiel causing them to try & jump orbital positions to a higher orbit, but they can't make the full jump & become what is called EXCITED caused by a captured EM Wave. This jumping of electrons is movement, any movement of mass is kinetic energy, not Momentum of EM Energy which has no mass.

Each light particle
......light particles do not exist, ONLY EM Waves at visible frequency exist.

has momentum, and when it strikes a reflective surface, it imparts that momentum to the reflective sheet
......an impossibility because Momentum= mass x velocity

just like a collision of two billiard balls.
....these are MASS

Aug 29, 2019
@RealityCheck

The Energy Momentum Relation
https://en.wikipe...relation

This is about Benni's and Gran's inability to grasp that photons have momentum.

They are forever hung up on that photons have a rest mass of zero but they fail to realize photons are never at rest.


Aug 29, 2019
What happens when a photon isn't the right energy?
,,,,,they are not passed through the outer layer of the metallic skin. The metallic skin is chosen for the express purpose of allowing only EM Waves of specific wavelength rejecting ALL others.

What happens to all those extra photons can't be absorbed Gran?
.....they bounce back into space.

x-rays and gamma rays are comprised of photons.

You said "X-rays and gamma rays can be reflected"
.....they are, the metallic skin will not pass them to the sail substrate.

Therefore you agree that photons can be reflected.
.......most of them are.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni
You really need to open a book instead of making science up.

And you just admitted photons can be reflected.

So tell me what happens to the wavelength of photons when they are reflected?

An how do the photons bounce off?

"Benni and the Bouncing Photons" - band name

Aug 29, 2019
Apparently Benni is also denying the existence of transition edge sensors, Geiger counters, photomultipliers, avalanche photodiodes, etc etc. Double slit experiment also never happened.

Also pretty neat how Newton's 3rd law has just been nullified. Thank goodness we all have Benni here.

Aug 29, 2019
Benni said:
"After the metallic overlay passes EM Waves of a specific frequency to the non-metallic substrate, those EM Waves are absorbed by outer orbital electrons of the substrate materiel causing them to try & jump orbital positions to a higher orbit, but they can't make the full jump & become what is called EXCITED caused by a captured EM Wave. This jumping of electrons is movement, any movement of mass is kinetic energy, not Momentum of EM Energy which has no mass."

What's this gibberish about electrons trying to jump but failing. If the photon doesn't have the exact energy to make the electron the jump it won't jump. The electron doesn't try to jump and fail lol. It would be emitting all sorts of photons of different energies during it's "try" It can't exist in an in-between state because there is no standing wave solution for it in between it's discrete energy states.

Aug 29, 2019
And you just admitted photons can be reflected.
.....and ONLY specific wavelengths are accepted, this by design of the metallic skin.

So tell me what happens to the wavelength of photons when they are reflected?
.....who even cares, they're not useful for anything with regard to imparting energy to the outer orbital electrons of the substrate. And because they can't pass through the skin they can add NOTHING to the momentum of the sail.

An how do the photons bounce off?
......from the metallic skin? ELASTICALLY, do you know what this means?

There is no change in photon energy (wavelength) when elastic photon scatter occurs, look it up in your physics text book. When 'photon scatter' is ELASTIC, no energy is imparted to whatever it collides with & therefore the solar sail gains no kinetic energy from so-called massless momentum effects.


Aug 29, 2019
electrons trying to jump but failing. If the photon doesn't have the exact energy to make the electron the jump it won't jump.

The electron doesn't try to jump and fail
,,,,,sure they do, it's called an EXCITATION STATE.

It would be emitting all sorts of photons of different energies during it's "try"
......what makes you think excited electrons can emit anything other than what they absorb? The metallic skin ALLOWS EM Waves of only specific frequency to pass, depending on what metal is used. When an excited electron loses energy to become NON-EXCITED it can ONLY emit an EM Wave of the same frequency it absorbed to become EXCITED.

It can't exist in an in-between state
.......yeah, that state of EXCITATION (that in between state), which is the reason the electron falls back to it's original state when the energizing EM Wave is cut off to the electron.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni still thinks electrons are teh littlule planeties orbitising around teh nucleusies. It's just not getting the whole "electron waves" thing.

Electrons have a wavelength; since they are charged, and since they all have the same charge and the same mass, for a given nuclide they can only have a quantized amount of momentum determined by their charge, the nuclide's charge, and their mass. That means they literally cannot exist with values other than the ones determined. This is why it's called "quantum mechanics."

As a result, electrons in particular nuclides have set frequencies they emit and absorb, which is why spectra are definitive for particular atomic species, allowing us to tell when they are present, even if they are red- or blue-shifted. It is the relation between these frequencies that gives the "fingerprint" of the atom that absorbed or emitted them.

@Benni's "physics" is as phony as a 3-dollar bill.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

If your electron tried to jump to a more energetic state and failed it would have accelerated and decelerated thus emitting photons along the way. What you are describing is a jump to an energy level in between and back down it's previous state. That should emit a photon. That does not happen in reality.

It's not a little round chubby sheep trying to hop over a fence so you can go Benni sleepywell.


Aug 29, 2019
says Benni
Spin Velocity
"why is spin velocity called spin velocity? My interpolation is he meant that velocity is a change in

"Spin Velocity Wedges combine soft carbon steel with computer CNC milled flat faces and engraved scoring grooves to provide the ultimate in feel, accuracy and spin."

-Apparently pussytard is confusing astrophysics with the performance of her toys, possibly the pleasure potential of the gadgets she likes to shove betwern her legs?

This is not that kind of site pussytard.
.........then why are you here to only be raising issues of a woman's nether regions? I even wished Egg would cease the same thing when addressing jonesy issues.
says Benni

I have no idea why this Otto person is going after me. First of all, I am not female. Secondly, this ghostofotto has mistaken me and my comments for some folks I have never met or talked to. It is possible that SpookyOtto is a mental patient who is allowed the use of computers as a sort of therapy

Aug 29, 2019
If your electron tried to jump to a more energetic state and failed it would have accelerated and decelerated thus emitting photons along the way.
.....that's what I said:
When an excited electron loses energy to become NON-EXCITED it can ONLY emit an EM Wave of the same frequency it absorbed to become EXCITED.


What you are describing is a jump to an energy level in between and back down it's previous state. That should emit a photon. That does not happen in reality.
.......just goes to show how much you learned getting that BA in Physics, not much, but this is exactly what happens & YOU are unable to falsify it.

Aug 29, 2019
@Benni

If your electron tried to jump to a more energetic state and failed it would have accelerated and decelerated thus emitting photons along the way. What you are describing is a jump to an energy level in between and back down it's previous state. That should emit a photon. That does not happen in reality.

It's not a little round chubby sheep trying to hop over a fence so you can go Benni sleepywell.
says jbobber

From what I have learnt on the subject, the negatively charged Electron is absorbed by a Photon, which then releases the Electron but retains the Electron's energy, while the Electron moves and the Photon is freed to travel. Correct me if I've got it wrong.

Aug 29, 2019
There is something in this recoiling electron
that if sufficient number recoil, equal one Newrton of force
it will become more obvious what is interesting
for in these comment
an inquisitive soul, has already spotted it

jimmybobber> @Gran

What happens when a photon isn't the right energy? What happens to all those extra photons can't be absorbed Gran?

x-rays and gamma rays are comprised of photons.

You said "X-rays and gamma rays can be reflected"

Therefore you agree that photons can be reflected.

But not the original photon
A pristine photon absorbed and reemitted

by the way jimmybobber, it was snippet gleaned from your link

https://en.wikipe...Electron

Aug 29, 2019
I have no idea why this Otto person is going after me. First of all, I am not female. Secondly, this ghostofotto has mistaken me and my comments for some folks I have never met or talked to. It is possible that SpookyOtto is a mental patient who is allowed the use of computers as a sort of therapy
.......I've noticed he quotes the Bible a lot, go figure.

Aug 29, 2019

No Benni you said the electron failed to reach its energy level. Much different.

Aug 29, 2019
@SEU you said:
"From what I have learnt on the subject, the negatively charged Electron is absorbed by a Photon, which then releases the Electron but retains the Electron's energy, while the Electron moves and the Photon is freed to travel. Correct me if I've got it wrong."

You've got that completely wrong. You haven't learnt anything. You've taught yourself your own physics.

@Gran now your backtracking.

Aug 29, 2019
I have no idea why: by SEU

SEU> I have no idea why this Otto person is going after me. First of all, I am not female. Secondly, this ghostofotto has mistaken me and my comments for some folks I have never met or talked to. It is possible that SpookyOtto is a mental patient who is allowed the use of computers as a sort of therapy

The clue is in your derogatory remarks
that Benni describes as eternal
and without end

for SEU
if you cannot find them
you will quite presently be informed

To Bennies displeasure

p.s. these commentators's today, so innocent and pure, butter wouldn't melt in the mouths

Aug 29, 2019
From what I have learnt on the subject, the negatively charged Electron is absorbed by a Photon, which then releases the Electron but retains the Electron's energy, while the Electron moves and the Photon is freed to travel. Correct me if I've got it wrong.
......you've got it pretty much backwards.

The electron absorbs the photon, this in turn, depending on the amplitude & frequency of the EM Wave photon, causes the electron to move into an EXCITED STATE, or greater. If the amplitude of the EM Photon is great enough it will cause the electron to be moved to a new orbital position or even be ejected from the electron shell creating ionization of the atom. Any movement of electrons entails KINETIC ENERGY, or nothing moves, period.


Aug 29, 2019
I have no idea why this Otto person is going after me. First of all, I am not female. Secondly, this ghostofotto has mistaken me and my comments for some folks I have never met or talked to. It is possible that SpookyOtto is a mental patient who is allowed the use of computers as a sort of therapy
.......I've noticed he quotes the Bible a lot, go figure.
says Benni

It's possible that Otto quotes the Bible so much to prove to one and all how much he hates God as much as he hates Jews. I recognised that he is a Nazi and a hater of women, especially women who become pregnant. Pregnancy is a very personal thing between a man and a woman, but Otto talks as though every pregnancy is a personal insult directed at him. I believe that Otto hates humanity and would like to rid the Earth of all humans. Except himself, of course. I wonder where he got the word, 'pussytard' from. It sounds nasty. Perhaps that is what he was called long ago.

Aug 29, 2019
@SEU you said:
"From what I have learnt on the subject, the negatively charged Electron is absorbed by a Photon, which then releases the Electron but retains the Electron's energy, while the Electron moves and the Photon is freed to travel. Correct me if I've got it wrong."

You've got that completely wrong. You haven't learnt anything. You've taught yourself your own physics.

@Gran now your backtracking.
says jimmybobber

Well then, since YOU know so much more, I fully expect YOU to explain it to me the right way so that I don't make the same mistakes again.

Aug 29, 2019
jimmybobber
@SEU you said:
"From what I have learnt on the subject, the negatively charged Electron is absorbed by a Photon, which then releases the Electron but retains the Electron's energy, while the Electron moves and the Photon is freed to travel. Correct me if I've got it wrong."

You've got that completely wrong. You haven't learnt anything. You've taught yourself your own physics.

@Gran now your backtracking.

Firstly, SEU's speciality

Just like Morecambe and Wise
SEU says all the right things
but not necessarily in the right order!

Aug 29, 2019
I have no idea why: by SEU

SEU> I have no idea why this Otto person is going after me. First of all, I am not female. Secondly, this ghostofotto has mistaken me and my comments for some folks I have never met or talked to. It is possible that SpookyOtto is a mental patient who is allowed the use of computers as a sort of therapy

The clue is in your derogatory remarks
that Benni describes as eternal
and without end

for SEU
if you cannot find them
you will quite presently be informed

To Bennies displeasure

p.s. these commentators's today, so innocent and pure, butter wouldn't melt in the mouths
says granville

I would love to be able to talk to the folks that SpookyOtto accuses me of being, such as a "racist black man" named "Richie" who comes from Russia with "pussycat eyes" and wears Obama socks and does a pirouette. LOL
I kept a list of these names that Otto accuses me of owning, but the only account I have is this one - SEU
Madness, perhaps?

Aug 29, 2019
In other words, what happened to quantised amounts of energy?

The answer
"The electron absorbs the photon, this in turn, depending on the amplitude & frequency of the EM Wave photon, causes the electron to move into an EXCITED STATE, or greater. If the amplitude of the EM Photon is great enough it will cause the electron to be moved to a new orbital position or even be ejected"

Is not amplitude, quantity?
so not discrete
quantities

Aug 29, 2019
t's possible that Otto quotes the Bible so much
He was quoting some of your past gems, you've got word salad down to an art SEU, not many people manage to mangle physics quite the way you do ...

Aug 29, 2019
Ohhhh ok, now I've got it. Thanks granville and Benni.
I didn't see an explanation to correct my errors from jimmybobber. Probably still looking it up?

What I would also like to know is, is the same principle of jumping Electrons in Caesium133 within an Atomic Clock have anything to do with Photons reacting with Electrons in the Cs133? Or are Photons absent from the Cs133 within the Atomic clock?