VLA makes first direct image of key feature of powerful radio galaxies

VLA makes first direct image of key feature of powerful radio galaxies
Artist's conception of the dusty, doughnut-shaped object surrounding the supermassive black hole, disk of material orbiting the black hole, and jets of material ejected by the disk, at the center of a galaxy. Credit: Bill Saxton, NRAO/AUI/NSF

Astronomers used the National Science Foundation's Karl G. Jansky Very Large Array (VLA) to make the first direct image of a dusty, doughnut-shaped feature surrounding the supermassive black hole at the core of one of the most powerful radio galaxies in the Universe—a feature first postulated by theorists nearly four decades ago as an essential part of such objects.

The scientists studied Cygnus A, a galaxy some 760 million light-years from Earth. The galaxy harbors a black hole 2.5 billion times more massive then the Sun at its core. As the black hole's powerful gravitational pull draws in surrounding material, it also propels superfast jets of material traveling outward at nearly the speed of light, producing spectacular "lobes" of bright radio emission.

Black hole-powered "central engines" producing bright emission at various wavelengths, and jets extending far beyond the galaxy are common to many galaxies, but show different properties when observed. Those differences led to a variety of names, such as quasars, blazars, or Seyfert galaxies. To explain the differences, theorists constructed a "unified model" with a common set of features that would show different properties depending on the angle from which they are viewed.

The unified model includes the central black hole, a rotating disk of infalling material surrounding the black hole, and the jets speeding outward from the poles of the disk. In addition, to explain why the same type of object looks different when viewed from different angles, a thick, dusty, doughnut-shaped "torus" is included, surrounding the inner parts. The torus obscures some features when viewed from the side, leading to apparent differences to the observer, even for intrinsically similar objects. Astronomers generically call this common set of features an (AGN).

VLA makes first direct image of key feature of powerful radio galaxies
VLA image of the central region of the powerful radio galaxy Cygnus A, showing the doughnut-shaped torus surrounding the black hole and accretion disk. Credit: Carilli et al., NRAO/AUI/NSF

"The torus is an essential part of the AGN phenomenon, and evidence exists for such structures in nearby AGN of lower luminosity, but we've never before directly seen one in such a brightly-emitting radio galaxy," said Chris Carilli, of the National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO). "The torus helps explain why objects known by different names actually are the same thing, just observed from a different perspective," he added.

In the 1950s, astronomers discovered objects that strongly emitted radio waves, but appeared point-like, similar to distant stars, when later observed with visible-light telescopes. In 1963, Maarten Schmidt of Caltech discovered that one of these objects was extremely distant, and more such discoveries quickly followed. To explain how these objects, dubbed quasars, could be so bright, theorists suggested that they must be tapping the tremendous gravitational energy of supermassive . The combination of black hole, the rotating disk, called an accretion disk, and the jets was termed the "central engine" responsible for the objects' prolific outpourings of energy.

The same type of central engine also appeared to explain the output of other types of objects, including radio galaxies, blazars, and Seyfert Galaxies. However, each showed a different set of properties. Theorists worked to develop a "unification scheme" to explain how the same thing could appear differently. In 1977, obscuration by dust was suggested as one element of that scheme. In a 1982 paper, Robert Antonucci, of the University of California, Santa Barbara, presented a drawing of an opaque torus—a doughnut-shaped object—surrounding the central engine. From that point on, an obscuring torus has been a common feature of astronomers' unified view of all types of active galactic nuclei.

VLA makes first direct image of key feature of powerful radio galaxies
VLA image of Cygnus A's central region, with labels. Credit: Carilli et al., NRAO/AUI/NSF

"Cygnus A is the closest example of a powerful radio-emitting galaxy—10 times closer than any other with comparably bright radio emission. That proximity allowed us to find the torus in a high-resolution VLA image of the galaxy's core," said Rick Perley, also of NRAO. "Doing more work of this type on weaker and more distant objects will almost certainly need the order-of-magnitude improvement in sensitivity and resolution that the proposed Next Generation Very Large Array (ngVLA) would bring," he added.

The VLA observations directly revealed the gas in Cygnus A's torus, which has a radius of nearly 900 light-years. Longstanding models for the torus suggest that the dust is in clouds embedded in the somewhat-clumpy gas.

"It's really great to finally see direct evidence of something that we've long presumed should be there," Carilli said. "To more accurately determine the shape and composition of this torus, we need to do further observing. For example, the Atacama Large Millimeter/submillimeter Array (ALMA) can observe at the wavelengths that will directly reveal the dust," he added.

Carilli and Perley, with their colleagues Vivek Dhawan, also of NRAO, and Daniel Perley of Liverpool John Moores University in the UK, discovered the torus when following up their surprising discovery in 2016 of a new, bright object near the center of Cygnus A. That new object, they said, is most likely a second that only recently encountered new material it could devour, causing it to produce bright emission the same way the central black hole does. The existence of the second black hole, they said, suggests that Cygnus A merged with another galaxy in the astronomically recent past.

Cygnus A, so named because it is the most powerful radio-emitting object in the constellation Cygnus, was discovered in 1946 by English physicist and radio astronomer J.S. Hey. It was matched to a visible-light, giant galaxy by Walter Baade and Rudolf Minkowski in 1951. It became an early target for the VLA soon after its completion in the early 1980s. Detailed VLA images of Cygnus A published in 1984 produced major advances in astronomers' understanding of such .

The scientists are reporting their findings in the Astrophysical Journal Letters.


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Magnetic fields may be the key to black hole activity

Journal information: Astrophysical Journal Letters

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Apr 02, 2019
The scientists studied Cygnus A, a galaxy some 760 million light-years from Earth. The galaxy harbors a black hole 2.5 billion times more massive then the Sun at its core.
.....but no shadow, silhouette or a picture.

The "no picture" BH supposedly at SgrA* is a scrawny supposedly 4 million solar mass at 26k light years distance, and this one at 760 million is somehow configured to be almost 800 times more massive than the one we can't see at SqrA*? How did they figure that out when they can't even find the BH they claim exists at the center of our own galaxy?

Gosh, Pop-Cosmology fantasy is great stuff.

Apr 02, 2019
Well, they weren't looking for a shadow or a silhouette, and they in fact do have a picture of what they were looking for.

Nice try Benzo. Straw men for days.

Apr 02, 2019
and they in fact do have a picture of what they were looking for.
......yeah, a doughnut, like doughnuts are proof that BHs exist.

When was the last time you had a doughnut with your coffee? Did it prove BHs exist, or just that doughnuts exist?

Apr 02, 2019
This is actually quite important. This was the last piece of the "machine" at the center of an AGN, and it's the first time we've seen this piece.

No doubt ALMA will tell us more.

Apr 02, 2019
somehow configured to be almost 800 times more massive than the one we can't see at SqrA*? How did they figure that out
The extrema of red/blue-shifting of orbiting debris near the barycenter plus simple Keplerian mechanics.
Notice that I did not name the class of orbitee, as that is not the 'that' about which enquiry was made, and as some may hold the infernal name/concept in anathema. Let's just call it some kind of big, fat, whatsit.

Apr 02, 2019
How did they figure that out?

Or: 'brevity is..." ...stuff goes faster round more massive stuff.

Apr 02, 2019
A massive torodial plasmoid is what is being observed, nary a leprechaunian BH to be seen.

Apr 02, 2019
Outflows are ubiquitous in astrophysics. Despite different sizes, velocity and amount of transported energy, luminosity and degree of collimation, they have obvious morphological similarities. However, what is important for us, there is the picture of the outflows from everywhere and none of inflows into somewhere. That is an obvious asymmetry.
https://www.acade...and_Jets
https://www.acade...ilky_Way

Apr 02, 2019
How did they figure that out?

Or: 'brevity is..." ...stuff goes faster round more massive stuff.


In the binary system J0806, two white dwarf stars orbit one another every 321 seconds, the mass of these two are less than that of our SUN. Now how does that explain stuff going faster around more massive stuff? Two dwarf stars with a common barycenter whizzing around each other faster than anything ever observed.

The lesson to be taken away here, if you're looking for fast moving orbitals it must FIRST have a barycenter? Why not?

...........let's just see how much fun we can have with this?

Apr 02, 2019
In the binary system J0806, two white dwarf stars orbit one another...Now how does that explain stuff going faster around more massive stuff? Two dwarf stars with a common barycenter whizzing around each other faster than anything ever observed.

The lesson to be taken away here, if you're looking for fast moving orbitals it must FIRST have a barycenter? Why not?

...........let's just see how much fun we can have with this?


That's the degenerate case of equal masses and an essentially circular 'ellipse'. I don't think either of the two systems in view fit that case. We are comparing two systems, one near, one far, each sharing the feature of little stars going around great big fat whatsits.

The fatter whatsits, all things being equal, will have their satellite stars going faster around them. But I must backpedal a bit and assume there are enough stars for each to find contrastable red/blue spectral shift extrema.

Apr 02, 2019
It's amazing to me that someone with a supposed college education doesn't understand how an inverse square force acts.

Apr 02, 2019
A massive torodial plasmoid is what is being observed, nary a leprechaunian BH to be seen.

So... what caused that "toroidal plasmoid" to form all on it's own?

Apr 02, 2019
@Da Schneib,

This is actually quite important. This was the last piece of the "machine" at the center of an AGN, and it's the first time we've seen this piece.

No doubt ALMA will tell us more.


As it stated in the article, it also helps explain why these things look so different when viewed from different angles; they are actually all the same thing. We, of course, have no choice of viewing angle, and it's nice to have evidence that viewing angle is all the differentiates a blazar from quasar. We were pretty sure, before, that they are all AGN; now we're extremely sure.

This is completely irrelevant, but the torus in the animation made me think of nothing so much as an Indy racing slick.

Apr 02, 2019
How did they figure that out?

Or: 'brevity is..." ...stuff goes faster round more massive stuff.


In the binary system J0806, two white dwarf stars orbit one another every 321 seconds, the mass of these two are less than that of our SUN. Now how does that explain stuff going faster around more massive stuff? Two dwarf stars with a common barycenter whizzing around each other faster than anything ever observed.

OH.. could it be that they are CLOSE to eachother?
Which one is moving faster?

The lesson to be taken away here, if you're looking for fast moving orbitals it must FIRST have a barycenter? Why not?

...........let's just see how much fun we can have with this?

Cart before the horse... Barycentre FORMS between two massive bodies fall into orbit around eachother...…
It moves around, you know....

Apr 02, 2019
@Benni,

and they in fact do have a picture of what they were looking for.
......yeah, a doughnut, like doughnuts are proof that BHs exist.

When was the last time you had a doughnut with your coffee? Did it prove BHs exist, or just that doughnuts exist?


I don't believe you understood what the article was about. The torus is not proof that black holes exist; we already know black holes exist. The torus is evidence that quasars, blazars, etc., are all AGN viewed from different angles. We were already pretty sure of that, now we're more than pretty sure -- we're extremely sure.

Apr 02, 2019
What do orbitals have to do with orbits?

This is complete idiocy.

It could be from a java jargon generator.

Apr 02, 2019
The torus is not proof that black holes exist; we already know black holes exist.


Then why is something configured to be almost 800 times more massive than the one we can't see at SqrA* not seen inside this doughnut? Something that big should block out a lot of background light & give us a nice clean image of the perimeter of a black circular sphere, right?

Uh, oh, do I hear the DUST argument coming up? Always gotta put up cover for failure of the holy grail of Pop-Cosmology fantasies.

Apr 02, 2019
Cart before the horse... Barycentre FORMS between two massive bodies fall into orbit around eachother...…
It moves around, you know....
.......I won't waste a dislike vote on this.

Apr 02, 2019
The torus is not proof that black holes exist; we already know black holes exist.


Then why is something configured to be almost 800 times more massive than the one we can't see at SqrA* not seen inside this doughnut? Something that big should block out a lot of background light & give us a nice clean image of the perimeter of a black circular sphere, right?

Uh, oh, do I hear the DUST argument coming up? Always gotta put up cover for failure of the holy grail of Pop-Cosmology fantasies.


If you think really hard, you can answer that one, yourself.

Apr 02, 2019
We are comparing two systems, one near, one far, each sharing the feature of little stars going around great big fat whatsits.

The fatter whatsits, all things being equal, will have their satellite stars going faster around them


The speed of orbital stars (like SO2) is the loudest argument you see written when presenting a case for a BH at SgrA*. So where's the BH at the center of the binary system J0806?

Apr 02, 2019
If you think really hard, you can answer that one, yourself.
......you betcha, it's a Pop-Cosmology Fantasy.

Apr 02, 2019
If you think really hard, you can answer that one, yourself.
Naww, it doesn't get distances and sizes. One of the penalties of low IQ.

It doesn't get the difference between 30,000 light years and 780 million light years. It's kinda like not getting the difference between the neighbor's house across the street and somewhere on Jupiter.

Apr 02, 2019
Cart before the horse... Barycentre FORMS between two massive bodies fall into orbit around eachother...…
It moves around, you know....
.......I won't waste a dislike vote on this.
says Benni

I have been getting a message that says, "you have exceeded the voting limit". Anyone else getting the same message?

Apr 03, 2019
So... what caused that "toroidal plasmoid" to form all on it's own?

Magnetic self compression.
https://www.googl...68144404

https://www.googl...68144404

Apr 03, 2019
These results have probably been pushed out the door quickly before they get lost in the limelight of Event Horizon Telescope's image of a black hole (technically of the area just outside of its event horizon) being released next week. What will be fascinating to watch is the reaction of Phys.org's resident trolls, especially Benni.

Apr 03, 2019
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Apr 03, 2019
So... what caused that "toroidal plasmoid" to form all on it's own?

Magnetic self compression.
https://www.googl...68144404


Lol. A bunch of junk from 1985, in a totally irrelevant and inappropriate journal. I think we've moved on from there. This guy didn't even get his PhD, and has zero qualifications in astrophysics. We should care what he thought 30+ years ago, why? Or, for that matter, what he thinks now? The guy is a total irrelevance.

Apr 03, 2019
@Da Schneib,

If you think really hard, you can answer that one, yourself.
Naww, it doesn't get distances and sizes. One of the penalties of low IQ.

It doesn't get the difference between 30,000 light years and 780 million light years. It's kinda like not getting the difference between the neighbor's house across the street and somewhere on Jupiter.


Big point. Well taken.

Apr 03, 2019
A few numbers from an AAS conference abstract this year;

Imaging the AGN Torus in Cygnus A
Perley, R. et al.
http://adsabs.har...3323301P

Apr 03, 2019
This Imminent Black Canvas

If this true SEU
Cart before the horse... Barycentre FORMS between two massive bodies fall into orbit around eachother...…
It moves around, you know....
.......I won't waste a dislike vote on this.
says Benni

I have been getting a message that says, "you have exceeded the voting limit". Anyone else getting the same message?

If your allowance has expired, SEU
that's the least of your concerns
in as much as your inky allowance
but
we should have sufficient to praise this Picci
wheneth iteth comeths
The Black canvas

Apr 03, 2019
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Apr 03, 2019
These results have probably been pushed out the door quickly before they get lost in the limelight of Event Horizon Telescope's image of a black hole being released next week. What will be fascinating to watch is the reaction of Phys.org's resident trolls, especially Benni.
...........and it'll be just so much fun listening to some convoluted explanation why there still is no PICTURE.

What they'll do is talk about what an incredible RADIO source SgrA* is, this will translate into "something must be there". In the meantime they could have pointed those antennae to any other position in the sky & gotten the same result. In fact they could have pointed all those antennae at our local radio station & gotten the same RADIO & concluded, "something must be there", yeah, sure, a bh on top of the tower where the signal source is located.

Whatever they will say, it'll be couched in the kinds of weasel words implying, "there is still hope", or they will demand more money.

Apr 03, 2019
I have been getting a message that says, "you have exceeded the voting limit". Anyone else getting the same message?
Yes, it's a daily limit, looks to be about a dozen votes total you can make over a 24 hour period per device type.

Well Moderator, you want to delete it again? All I'm doing is explaining your own site map. Maybe you think that is off-topic?

Apr 03, 2019

Lol. A bunch of junk from 1985, in a totally irrelevant and inappropriate journal. I think we've moved on from there..


The author is probably not the point though. That electromagnetic fields self-contracts, i e the pinch effect (http://adsabs.har...3..887S) is as far as I can tell well-established and is central to Magnetic confinement fusion for example.

Not that this phenomenon in any way in itself suggests it must be part of forming the kind of galactic objects as in this article, but I've yet to see anyone refer to actual studies attempting to dismiss that electromagnetic forces play an integral role in out universe. I mean, what do you even think the Sun is? Solar flares?

I'm not suggesting that electromagnetic pinches necessarily forms these objects. You don't know they aren't is the point. You can't know what you don't study.

Apr 03, 2019
@Magda,
Nonsense. We know what quasars are, and they are not EM phenomena. They are black holes. We can now resolve the galaxies that host these quasars. This was not known at the time Lerner (and a few others) posited plasma processes for their formation. Nobody believes that now, as the evidence contradicts it.

https://www.eso.o...8-51.pdf

Apr 03, 2019
I have been getting a message that says, "you have exceeded the voting limit". Anyone else getting the same message?
"Yes, it's a daily limit, looks to be about a dozen votes total you can make over a 24 hour period per device type."

Moderator, your deletion of my Comment explaining details of your site map voting limit has been reported back to you by Benni. Don't feel offended, I know you're on a steep learning curve here. I reproduced the content of my Comment by clicking on Quote whereby I'm challenging you to explain why my explaining your site map is so offensive to you.

Apr 03, 2019
...........and it'll be just so much fun listening to some convoluted explanation why there still is no PICTURE.

Complete rubbish. You have been told that the announcement is April 10th. Now shut up and go away.

Apr 03, 2019
I mean, what do you even think the Sun is?


I don't need to think - I know. A gravitationally bound ball of plasma that undergoes nuclear fusion in its core, from the p-p chain. More to it than that of course, but those are the basics.

Apr 03, 2019
At least the electric loonies attempt to explain the phonomena around whatever is there rather than just bleating, nothings there nothings there. How exactly does a barycenter create those jets, or that torus Benni?

Apr 03, 2019
At least the electric loonies attempt to explain the phonomena around whatever is there rather than just bleating, nothings there nothings there. How exactly does a barycenter create those jets, or that torus Benni?


Not to mention the event horizon that will be unveiled one week today :)

Apr 03, 2019
We know what quasars are, and they are not EM phenomena.

It's obvious the torus is electromagnetic, the jets are undoubtedly electromagnetic. It's an electromagnetic system where gravity is but a side effect.

Apr 03, 2019
We know what quasars are, and they are not EM phenomena.

It's obvious the torus is electromagnetic, the jets are undoubtedly electromagnetic. It's an electromagnetic system where gravity is but a side effect.


Wrong. Link to the science and observations. Nobody is interested in your untutored opinions on subjects that you don't understand.

Apr 03, 2019
.........dusty, doughnut-shaped feature surrounding the supermassive black hole at the core of one of the most powerful radio galaxies in the Universe—a feature first postulated by theorists nearly four decades ago as an essential part of such objects.


Yep, and they somehow predicted this torus of dust and gas, without putting gravity into the model, according to cd! Deary me.

Apr 03, 2019
I'm really looking forward to the 10th-- most interesting will be to see whether observations conform to what we'd expect from General Relativity. It would be very exciting to see a departure. I wonder whether a clear event horizon "image" would do anything to convince the black hole deniers that such things really exist. Probably not, because belief systems are hard to destroy. On the one hand we have science and on the other hand we have belief systems grounded in-- what? Faith? Fantasy? Wishful thinking? Monomania? Delusion?

Apr 03, 2019
Faith? Fantasy? Wishful thinking? Monomania? Delusion?


You forgot 'ignorance' and 'Velikovsky', just off the top of my head. :)

Apr 03, 2019
I'm really looking forward to the 10th-- most interesting will be to see whether observations conform to what we'd expect from General Relativity. It would be very exciting to see a departure. I wonder whether a clear event horizon "image" would do anything to convince the black hole deniers that such things really exist. Probably not, because belief systems are hard to destroy. On the one hand we have science and on the other hand we have belief systems grounded in-- what? Faith? Fantasy? Wishful thinking? Monomania? Delusion?
.......they're not gonna come out & tell you they FOUND AN EVENT HORIZON, they're gonna come out & tell you they found more evidence for one but need to double the size of their TELESCOPE to verify what they suspect is there, more string'em along stuff.

Apr 03, 2019
.......they're not gonna come out & tell you they FOUND AN EVENT HORIZON, they're gonna come out & tell you they found more evidence for one but need to double the size of their TELESCOPE to verify what they suspect is there, more string'em along stuff.

How the hell would an untutored layman like you know what they are going to announce?

Apr 03, 2019
sez Cg>
Not to mention the event horizon that will be unveiled one week today :)


sez Benni & Cg>.......How the hell would an untutored layman like you know what they are going to announce?


Apr 03, 2019
sez Cg>
Not to mention the event horizon that will be unveiled one week today :)


sez Benni & Cg>.......How the hell would an untutored layman like you know what they are going to announce?



Want a bet on what they announce? Loser never posts here again? Go for it. They do not use the word 'groundbreaking' and the other upbeat language in the media call, just for a damp squib. They'd make themselves a laughing stock, and very unpopular.
They will have seen the silhouette of the BH on the EH. That is my bet.

Apr 03, 2019
Want a bet on what they announce? Loser never posts here again? Go for it. They do not use the word 'groundbreaking' and the other upbeat language in the media call, just for a damp squib. They'd make themselves a laughing stock, and very unpopular.
They will have seen the silhouette of the BH on the EH. That is my bet.


How the hell would an untutored layman like you know what they are going to announce?

Apr 03, 2019
Want a bet on what they announce? Loser never posts here again? Go for it. They do not use the word 'groundbreaking' and the other upbeat language in the media call, just for a damp squib. They'd make themselves a laughing stock, and very unpopular.
They will have seen the silhouette of the BH on the EH. That is my bet.


How the hell would an untutored layman like you know what they are going to announce?


Because I know what they've been looking for, and any fool could read between the lines of the media call, and also the language used in recent videos released from the Perimeter Institute, and a recent conference. Like I said - want to bet on it?

Apr 03, 2019
Is there anybody else who is psychic out there? See if you can get a reading from these clues, from;

https://www.eso.o...nn19018/

A press conference to present a ***groundbreaking*** result from the EHT.


A total of six major press conferences will be held simultaneously around the globe in Belgium (Brussels, English), Chile (Santiago, Spanish), Shanghai (Mandarin), Japan (Tokyo, Japanese), Taipei (Mandarin), and USA (Washington, D.C., English).


Due to the importance of this result, we encourage satellite events in the different ESO Member States and beyond...... There are satellite-events currently planned in Madrid, Rome, Gothenburg, Nijmegen and Pretoria.


The name of the telescope is the ***Event Horizon Telescope***. It has been looking for the silhouette of a black hole on the event horizon.

Any guesses, anyone?

Apr 03, 2019

The name of the telescope is the ***Event Horizon Telescope***. It has been looking for the silhouette of a black hole on the event horizon. Any guesses, anyone?


.......they're not gonna come out & tell you they FOUND AN EVENT HORIZON, they're gonna come out & tell you they found more evidence for one but need to double the size of their TELESCOPE to verify what they suspect is there, more string'em along stuff.

Apr 03, 2019

The name of the telescope is the ***Event Horizon Telescope***. It has been looking for the silhouette of a black hole on the event horizon. Any guesses, anyone?


.......they're not gonna come out & tell you they FOUND AN EVENT HORIZON, they're gonna come out & tell you they found more evidence for one but need to double the size of their TELESCOPE to verify what they suspect is there, more string'em along stuff.


Want to bet on it. psycho? Come on - loser never posts here again. Got the cojones to back up your crap? Of course you haven't. You'll slide away back to your cave, with the rest of the escaped inmates.
And they've already increased the capability of the 'scope for this years run, you retard.

Apr 03, 2019

Want to bet on it. psycho? Come on - loser never posts here again. Got the cojones to back up your crap? Of course you haven't. You'll slide away back to your cave, with the rest of the escaped inmates.
And they've already increased the capability of the 'scope for this years run, you retard.


How the hell would an untutored layman like you know what they are going to announce?

Apr 03, 2019

Want to bet on it. psycho? Come on - loser never posts here again. Got the cojones to back up your crap? Of course you haven't. You'll slide away back to your cave, with the rest of the escaped inmates.
And they've already increased the capability of the 'scope for this years run, you retard.


How the hell would an untutored layman like you know what they are going to announce?


So bet on it, chicken boy. Too scared aren't you, because you know I'm right? The whole site is watching you chicken out, you poser. Grow a pair.

Apr 03, 2019
@benjiTROLL
How the hell would an untutored layman like you know what they are going to announce?
because there is this newfangled invention called "the internet" that allows not only for public information to be disseminated at the speed of light, but also private information!

in fact, because so much is shared on the net, one can even find information available that isn't publicly available at the time (as repeatedly demonstrated by users of Patreon or scientific journals like Science Magazine)

I can read about something in Science that isn't released to the public and doesn't show up on PO for a week (sometimes much longer)

so all it takes is having access to a journal (or organization tied to the information to be forthcoming) to "know what they are going to announce"

Apr 03, 2019
It's like an elementary school playground in here, oh yeah? "l'll bet ya!"...

Apr 03, 2019
This Imminent Black Canvas

If this true SEU
Cart before the horse... Barycentre FORMS between two massive bodies fall into orbit around eachother...…
It moves around, you know....
.......I won't waste a dislike vote on this.
says Benni

I have been getting a message that says, "you have exceeded the voting limit". Anyone else getting the same message?

If your allowance has expired, SEU
that's the least of your concerns
in as much as your inky allowance
but
we should have sufficient to praise this Picci
wheneth iteth comeths
The Black canvas
says granville

Yes, we await the long-sought imaging that, hopefully, removes all doubt as to whether or NOT the alleged object actually exists and, IF it exists, will our Star/SS travel too close to it while orbiting our MW, where the dust that humans have become in that era will also be swallowed up - never to emerge again. That's only IF the BH exists as scientists seem anxious for it.

Apr 03, 2019

The name of the telescope is the ***Event Horizon Telescope***. It has been looking for the silhouette of a black hole on the event horizon. Any guesses, anyone?


.......they're not gonna come out & tell you they FOUND AN EVENT HORIZON, they're gonna come out & tell you they found more evidence for one but need to double the size of their TELESCOPE to verify what they suspect is there, more string'em along stuff.
says Benni

LOL You could be right. Scientists/researchers DO have a way of prolonging an ongoing mystery to keep the public-at-large, as well as high school and University science students on the edge of their seats - while conjecturing and gesticulating wildly trying to figure out WHY the Truth is still hidden somewhere in the halls of Academia. But, after all, scientists do need a steady income to pay their rent, food and petrol bills. So, they take their sweet time and present little doses of information to keep the public happily waiting.

Apr 03, 2019
the Event Horizon Telescope. It has been looking for the silhouette of a black hole on the event horizon. Any guesses, anyone?


.......they're not gonna come out & tell you they FOUND AN EVENT HORIZON, they're gonna come out & tell you they found more evidence for one but need to double the size of their TELESCOPE to verify what they suspect is there, more string'em along stuff.
says Benni

LOL You could be right. Scientists/researchers DO have a way of prolonging an ongoing mystery to keep the public-at-large, as well as high school and University science students on the edge of their seats - while conjecturing and gesticulating wildly trying to figure out WHY the Truth is still hidden somewhere in the halls of Academia. But, after all, scientists do need a steady income to pay their rent, food and petrol bills. So, they take their sweet time and present little doses of information to keep the public happily waiting.
More time, add some money as well.

Apr 03, 2019
I'm really looking forward to the 10th-- most interesting will be to see whether observations conform to what we'd expect from General Relativity. It would be very exciting to see a departure. I wonder whether a clear event horizon "image" would do anything to convince the black hole deniers that such things really exist. Probably not, because belief systems are hard to destroy. On the one hand we have science and on the other hand we have belief systems grounded in-- what? Faith? Fantasy? Wishful thinking? Monomania? Delusion?
says rogerdallas

Well, you see, it's like this: There are many scam artists and gaming systems that draw in the unwary public, promise results, and then don't deliver what they had promised. Andrea Rossi is one such scam artist whose Cold Fusion promises has come to nought - and yet has sucked in prominent hopefuls who have financially supported his dramatic claims of almost FREE ENERGY. And that is only ONE example. So, we shall see - or not.

Apr 03, 2019
A massive torodial plasmoid is what is being observed, nary a leprechaunian BH to be seen.

says CD85

As they say, "the proof is in the pudding".
LOL Would much prefer to meet a REAL Leprechaun, but all I have found in this site are nasty, angry Trolls who use physorg as their personal bridge to live under.

Apr 03, 2019
Cart before the horse... Barycentre FORMS between two massive bodies fall into orbit around eachother...…
It moves around, you know....
.......I won't waste a dislike vote on this.
says Benni

I have been getting a message that says, "you have exceeded the voting limit". Anyone else getting the same message?
says I

Amazing. I submitted the above post about the message I was getting, and then I was downvoted -3 from the usual suspects. And for what? And they weren't brave enough to answer my query - but only made their idiocy known by down voting my innocent post.
Yes, some humans are inspired by demonic possession, such as DS, CS and castrovagina. That's a fact.

Apr 03, 2019
These results have probably been pushed out the door quickly before they get lost in the limelight of Event Horizon Telescope's image of a black hole (technically of the area just outside of its event horizon) being released next week. What will be fascinating to watch is the reaction of Phys.org's resident trolls, especially Benni.
says barakn

Projecting a result of an image into the future isn't the same as seeing the actual image as it is released to the public on that proposed day. What's the rush? If the shadow of an EH shows up without having been ALTERED in any way to give it more "body" and an omygosh moment, then it could BE the evidence required for doubters such as I to require even MORE evidence - since a shadow could emanate from an entirely different source that is yet unknown.
This being a science website, it would behoove such as Benni, granville, RC, myself and a few others to disbelieve right-off-the-bat what is claimed by scientists w/o more proof.

Apr 03, 2019
@Benni.
The speed of orbital stars (like SO2) is the loudest argument you see written when presenting a case for a BH at SgrA*. So where's the BH at the center of the binary system J0806?
Please don't be obtuse, mate. Are you really unaware of the effective difference?...ie, between two mutually orbiting similar-massed bodies and two disparate-massed bodies with the smaller-massed body orbiting the applicable 'barycentre' which is effectively located INSIDE the EXTREME-massed body? FYI: The LATTER situation obtains wherever a stellar-mass (or a much-lesser-massed BH for that matter) orbits a supermassive BH (or as I prefer to more accurately label them: Extreme Gravitating 'Black Feature'). Please either do further research/thinking to update your knowledge base re the actual science, Benni, and/or politely ask questions of those here who do have the relevant science knowledge to help you update that base. Thanks. :)

Apr 03, 2019
One wonders after the mods cut off voting by positive contributors in response to trolling, when they will start kicking people off for not keeping science as the guidelines say?

Certainly denying black holes with all the evidence supporting them is not keeping science.

Apr 03, 2019
@Magda.
That electromagnetic fields self-contracts, i e the pinch effect (http://adsabs.har...3..887S) is as far as I can tell well-established and is central to Magnetic confinement fusion for example.

Not that this phenomenon in any way in itself suggests it must be part of forming the kind of galactic objects as in this article, but I've yet to see anyone refer to actual studies attempting to dismiss that electromagnetic forces play an integral role in out universe.
I long ago here explained that, while a 'plasma focus' type phenomena can initially create a 'plasmoid' structure in plasma contexts, the INHERENT INSTABILITY of such plasmoid/pinch features makes them TRANSIENT stages in a much more complex interplay of forces (especially in HYBRID FORCES scenarios like stellar bodies, and also disc-polar-jet systems generally).

Upshot?...without GRAVITATIONAL 'confinement' OR 'anchoring', ANY plasmoid/pinch feature is UNSTABLE and EXPLODES. :)

Apr 03, 2019
@Benni
@cantdrive.

Please read my above post to @Magda. It will remind you both of what I have often already explained to you both before. Either update your respective knowledge base re the relevant science or just ask politely anyone here who does have the requisite science knowledge to clarify it for you and help update your respective knowledge bases. Thanks. :)

Apr 03, 2019
@cantdrive85,

We know what quasars are, and they are not EM phenomena.

It's obvious the torus is electromagnetic, the jets are undoubtedly electromagnetic. It's an electromagnetic system where gravity is but a side effect.


The primary effect is the gravity of the SMBH. All other effects are a product of that. Infalling matter caused by the SMBH's gravity creates electromagnetic effects from heat and friction in the accretion disc. The torus is a side effect with its root cause the gravity of the SMBH. A SMBH with 2,500,000,000 times the mass of our sun creates a great deal of gravity -- to put it mildly. That's lot of energy to make a lot of things happen.

Apr 03, 2019
This being a science website, it would behoove such as Benni, granville, RC, myself and a few others to disbelieve right-off-the-bat what is claimed by scientists w/o more proof.


The first thing I'm gonna look for is ENHANCED IMAGING, this is the favorite tactic of Pop-Cosmologists, to get in there & airbrush the raw image so profoundly that even the raw image is obscured. But of course there has been NO HINT an image will be presented, only that there is "groundbreaking news", that should be almost as good a clue as any, ONLY that there is "news", more time & money "news".

Apr 03, 2019
One doesn't get the idea that EUdiots understand why one assumption is better than fifty.

Apr 03, 2019
One doesn't get the idea that EUdiots understand why one assumption is better than fifty.


Two don't get the idea, either.

Apr 03, 2019
@Benni,

This being a science website, it would behoove such as Benni, granville, RC, myself and a few others to disbelieve right-off-the-bat what is claimed by scientists w/o more proof.


The first thing I'm gonna look for is ENHANCED IMAGING, this is the favorite tactic of Pop-Cosmologists, to get in there & airbrush the raw image so profoundly that even the raw image is obscured. But of course there has been NO HINT an image will be presented, only that there is "groundbreaking news", that should be almost as good a clue as any, ONLY that there is "news", more time & money "news".


It doesn't matter what is presented -- you'll find some excuse to believe they're faking something. That's a lack of scientific knowledge and understanding does to people.

Apr 03, 2019
The first thing I'm gonna look for is ENHANCED IMAGING, this is the favorite tactic of Pop-Cosmologists, to get in there & airbrush the raw image so profoundly that even the raw image is obscured. But of course there has been NO HINT an image will be presented, only that there is "groundbreaking news", that should be almost as good a clue as any, ONLY that there is "news", more time & money "news".


It doesn't matter what is presented -- you'll find some excuse to believe they're faking something. That's a lack of scientific knowledge and understanding does to people.


We've been given the PROMISE that EHT was gonna produce a PICTURE........and when it doesn't happen your first inclination will be to blame it on Benni, right?

Apr 03, 2019
@cantdrive85,

We know what quasars are, and they are not EM phenomena.

It's obvious the torus is electromagnetic, the jets are undoubtedly electromagnetic. It's an electromagnetic system where gravity is but a side effect.


The primary effect is the gravity of the SMBH. All other effects are a product of that. Infalling matter caused by the SMBH's gravity creates electromagnetic effects from heat and friction in the accretion disc. The torus is a side effect with its root cause the gravity of the SMBH. A SMBH with 2,500,000,000 times the mass of our sun creates a great deal of gravity -- to put it mildly. That's lot of energy to make a lot of things happen.

That's your faerie tale conjecture, however super duper spectacular BH's are as real as unicorn horns.

Apr 03, 2019
One doesn't get the idea that EUdiots understand why one assumption is better than fifty.

Then how can you possibly defend your nonsensical Darkist beliefs with its two foundational assumptions not to mention the numerous others (fifty or more) against the one assumption that electricity flows through plasma and can transport energy over vast distances? Which isn't an assumption any longer as we have direct evidence of a filamentary and cellular nature of the Universe, the filaments being evidence of those electric currents. Your dark sciences are dead guesses walking, the future is plasma based electric cosmology.

Apr 03, 2019
@cantdrive85,

That's your faerie tale conjecture, however super duper spectacular BH's are as real as unicorn horns.


One of which I happen to have in the back field -- attached to a live unicorn named Greenwield (he told me his name -- unicorns talk).

Why the hell do you have trouble accepting overwhelming evidence? What is your problem with the evidence? All I can see is a complete lack of knowledge, because people with actual education and research experience in physics accept the existence of black holes, because that's the only way to explain the evidence in such a way that conforms to known physical laws. We don't know everything about black holes, but we do know they exist, and they are ubiquitous. The evidence forces that conclusion.

Not accepting the existence of black holes is equivalent to believing Earth is flat.

Apr 03, 2019
Not accepting the existence of black holes is equivalent to believing Earth is flat.
We been telling it that for years. It hasn't helped any.

Apr 03, 2019

The name of the telescope is the ***Event Horizon Telescope***. It has been looking for the silhouette of a black hole on the event horizon. Any guesses, anyone?


.......they're not gonna come out & tell you they FOUND AN EVENT HORIZON, they're gonna come out & tell you they found more evidence for one but need to double the size of their TELESCOPE to verify what they suspect is there, more string'em along stuff.
says Benni

It will be at 1500 hours CEST UTC+2 on 4/10/19
CEST = Central European Summer Time (according to Wiki)
**Groundbreaking** could mean that they will be digging up a street in Brussels.
LOL j/k

Apr 03, 2019
@Benni,

This being a science website, it would behoove such as Benni, granville, RC, myself and a few others to disbelieve right-off-the-bat what is claimed by scientists w/o more proof.


The first thing I'm gonna look for is ENHANCED IMAGING, this is the favorite tactic of Pop-Cosmologists, to get in there & airbrush the raw image so profoundly that even the raw image is obscured. But of course there has been NO HINT an image will be presented, only that there is "groundbreaking news", that should be almost as good a clue as any, ONLY that there is "news", more time & money "news".


It doesn't matter what is presented -- you'll find some excuse to believe they're faking something. That's a lack of scientific knowledge and understanding does to people.
says obs

Actually, it is far more prudent to hold off the 'enthusiasm' until after the 'groundbreaking news' is presented - and ONLY THEN determine whether it is worthy of enthusiasm or not.

yep
Apr 04, 2019
accepting the existence of black holes is equivalent to believing Earth is flat.


Fixed it for you.

Black Holes, and dark matter, is magical nonsense based in the dogma of a Big Bang priori. If you can believe one miracle apparently others are easier to swallow.

Apr 04, 2019
@Benni,

It doesn't matter what is presented -- you'll find some excuse to believe they're faking something. That's a lack of scientific knowledge and understanding does to people.
says obs

Actually, it is far more prudent to hold off the 'enthusiasm' until after the 'groundbreaking news' is presented - and ONLY THEN determine whether it is worthy of enthusiasm or not.


To what enthusiasm are you referring? I was merely stating what I expect you to do, regardless of what is unveiled. I'm looking forward to seeing what they present, but I'm not going to be enthusiastic until I see what it is.

Apr 04, 2019
How coincidental, Brexit's third Coming is April the Tenth

This Black Canvas
this Shadow, is likened to Brexit
Brexit, laid down in stone by Moses in the wilderness
as of Twenty third of June 2016
then Twenty ninth of April 2019
then
coincidently
on the same day as Blackholes Picci
where
our little cupeth joyeth willeth overfloweth witheth joyeth on that infamous day
when
yet again
coincidently Great Britain will have its third Brexit moment
for
those, salivating in anticipation
at
the thought of their little cupeth joyeth willeth overfloweringeth witheth joyeth
give
a little thought
that
just like this English Brexit moment yet again
do not
be disappointed
if
all you are given
is
Blackholes Black Canvas

Apr 04, 2019
This blackhole

Has its roots in the mists of time
its
roots lay entwined in theory
as that great society of physics
physics world once said you can discuss outside this horizon
but
frankly we cannot discuss inside this horizon
which
is all well and good if matter that enters does not exit
but
this blackhole has its many brexit exits
to
numerous to consider
for example
these spin jet axis of these blackholes
when
blackholes take matter in their circumference
into
their interior which upon compressive accumulation
takes
the path of least resistance out their spin jet axis
although physics world once said frankly we cannot discuss inside this horizon
unfortunately
this blackhole by not abiding by these rules of this horizon
has
opened up this door of discussion
to
how this blackhole is taking matter into its compass
then
ejecting out its spin jet axis
into
Two 25,000 Ly star forming Fermi clouds above and below this blackholes host galaxy

Apr 04, 2019
Blackholes and their spin axis

When this matter orbits this blackhole star
where
this matter spirals into this blackholes interior
where
at its centre of mass gravity is zero
so by implication
so is the escape velocity is zero
so
by implication there is no gravitational force
preventing
mass in this blackholes centre making its way out these spin axis out through this horizon
as
either side this horizon
the escape velocity drops to zero
because
according to R = 2GM/C²
the speed of light
only
occurs momentarily
according to differential calculus of a point in space
where
for a minuscule distance 10-15m and less
this horizon exists at the speed of light
so
as can be seen
matter
emanating from zero gravity at centre of mass
ejected
out through this horizon is no obstacle
as
everywhere we observe these blackholes
visually or by radio waves
Blackholes are always ejecting matter out their spin axis!

Apr 04, 2019
One doesn't get the idea that EUdiots understand why one assumption is better than fifty.

Then how can you possibly defend your nonsensical Darkist beliefs with its two foundational assumptions not to mention the numerous others (fifty or more) against the one assumption that electricity flows through plasma and can transport energy over vast distances? Which isn't an assumption any longer as we have direct evidence of a filamentary and cellular nature of the Universe, the filaments being evidence of those electric currents. Your dark sciences are dead guesses walking, the future is plasma based electric cosmology.


You have zero evidence for anything. Just a bunch of crackpot nonsense.

Apr 04, 2019
accepting the existence of black holes is equivalent to believing Earth is flat.


Fixed it for you.

Black Holes, and dark matter, is magical nonsense based in the dogma of a Big Bang priori. If you can believe one miracle apparently others are easier to swallow.


So explain the evidence for black holes, big mouth. And provide us with a scientific link that does just that.

Apr 04, 2019
So explain the evidence for black holes, big mouth. And provide us with a scientific link that does just that.


You have zero evidence for anything. Just a bunch of crackpot nonsense.

Apr 04, 2019
This being a science website, it would behoove such as Benni, granville, RC, myself and a few others to disbelieve right-off-the-bat what is claimed by scientists w/o more proof.


The first thing I'm gonna look for is ENHANCED IMAGING, this is the favorite tactic of Pop-Cosmologists, to get in there & airbrush the raw image so profoundly that even the raw image is obscured. But of course there has been NO HINT an image will be presented, only that there is "groundbreaking news", that should be almost as good a clue as any, ONLY that there is "news", more time & money "news".


So bet on it, chicken. Loser never posts here again. I'll take that risk, but I happen to have the cojones to do that. You don't.

https://i1.wp.com...mp;ssl=1

Apr 04, 2019
So explain the evidence for black holes, big mouth. And provide us with a scientific link that does just that.


You have zero evidence for anything. Just a bunch of crackpot nonsense.


Yes we do. And you have been shown it umpteen times, you liar. Stop lying you pathetic, cowardly wretch.

Apr 04, 2019

It doesn't matter what is presented -- you'll find some excuse to believe they're faking something. That's a lack of scientific knowledge and understanding does to people.
says obs

Actually, it is far more prudent to hold off the 'enthusiasm' until after the 'groundbreaking news' is presented - and ONLY THEN determine whether it is worthy of enthusiasm or not.


To what enthusiasm are you referring? I was merely stating what I expect you to do, regardless of what is unveiled. I'm looking forward to seeing what they present, but I'm not going to be enthusiastic until I see what it is.
........and what's gonna be your level of "enthusiasm" when NO PICTURE is presented, because that is exactly what will happen.

You don't know these people like I do. I live professionally with these people, I know their every step & can predict their next one before they even make it based on their past track record.

Apr 04, 2019
........and what's gonna be your level of "enthusiasm" when NO PICTURE is presented, because that is exactly what will happen.


Wrong. Want to bet on it?

https://i1.wp.com...mp;ssl=1

You don't know these people like I do. I live professionally with these people, I know their every step & can predict their next one before they even make it based on their past track record.


Lol. Given that you are demonstrably scientifically illiterate, I'm calling BS on that.

Apr 04, 2019
It will be at 1500 hours CEST UTC+2 on 4/10/19
CEST = Central European Summer Time (according to Wiki)
**Groundbreaking** could mean that they will be digging up a street in Brussels.
LOL j/k
........or a deeper HOLE for themselves because it's easy to predict what they're gonna say based on their past track record, WE NEED MORE TIME (translation: we need more money).

Apr 04, 2019
It will be at 1500 hours CEST UTC+2 on 4/10/19
CEST = Central European Summer Time (according to Wiki)
**Groundbreaking** could mean that they will be digging up a street in Brussels.
LOL j/k
........or a deeper HOLE for themselves because it's easy to predict what they're gonna say based on their past track record, WE NEED MORE TIME (translation: we need more money).


Wrong. Want to bet on it?

https://i1.wp.com...mp;ssl=1

And what past record, you liar? Links.


Apr 04, 2019
Why bother Castrogiovanni? Even if a clear picture was presented, Benni would come up with a way to argue against it. Somehow it would not be a real "picture" or some kind of special equipment must have been used to take it rendering it zero evidence. You know this as good as I so don't bother.

Apr 04, 2019
Why the hell do you have trouble accepting overwhelming evidence?

There is zero evidence for a BH, just mountains of assumption. As a matter of fact, there is not only zero evidence but your unicorns are physically impossible maths based conjecture. You have to be a bit of a moron to actually believe they exist.

Apr 04, 2019
Why the hell do you have trouble accepting overwhelming evidence?

There is zero evidence for a BH, just mountains of assumption. As a matter of fact, there is not only zero evidence but your unicorns are physically impossible maths based conjecture. You have to be a bit of a moron to actually believe they exist.


Wrong. There is plenty of evidence, and even more to come in 6 days. Explain the orbits of the stars around SgrA*. Explain the gravitational redshift of S0-2 at pericentre. With reference to the scientific literature.

Apr 04, 2019
There is plenty of interpretation, and even more to come in 6 days.

Fixed that for ya.

Apr 04, 2019
There is plenty of interpretation, and even more to come in 6 days.

Fixed that for ya.


Liar.
Explain the orbits of the stars around SgrA*. Explain the gravitational redshift of S0-2 at pericentre. With reference to the scientific literature.

Get on with it.

Apr 04, 2019
In reference to all who argue with the "Benni", it would be better to simply block it. For one, this seems to be a game for him/her/it. Probably better not to waste one's time and effort. Fun fun fun for "Benni" but hopeless and frustrating for those attempting to reason with him/her/it. Reason is entirely beside the point for "Benni", as well as reality.

Apr 04, 2019
@yep,

accepting the existence of black holes is equivalent to believing Earth is flat.


Fixed it for you.

Black Holes, and dark matter, is magical nonsense based in the dogma of a Big Bang priori. If you can believe one miracle apparently others are easier to swallow.


No, you didn't fix it; you just made one more mistake.

Don't change what I wrote. Condemn it, criticize it, curse it, but don't change it. That's grossly unethical; you're not my editor.

Miracles don't exist; I'm a scientist, and I understand the science. I am forced by the evidence to accept the existence of black holes -- because I'm educated, and I was a researcher until I retired.

"Dark matter" is a placeholder name; nothing more. There is no doubt something's there. It acts like matter (it has gravity) that's too dark to see (it doesn't shine or reflect), so we call it "dark matter." Your criticism marks you as scientifically illiterate.

Apr 04, 2019
In reference to all who argue with the "Benni", it would be better to simply block it. For one, this seems to be a game for him/her/it. Probably better not to waste one's time and effort. Fun fun fun for "Benni" but hopeless and frustrating for those attempting to reason with him/her/it. Reason is entirely beside the point for "Benni", as well as reality.


@rogerdallas
You are absolutely right. This special character, obviously, has nothing better to do, and I'd assume it doesn't actually work.
The personality disorder is very strong with it. I'd even assume there are multiple disorders in congruity.

Apr 04, 2019
At this Liverpudlian University

Carilli Perley Daniel Perley of Liverpool's John Moores University
discovered this torus in 2016
this torus orbiting it's star
in other words
matter spiralling into the centre of Cygnus A
being
ejected by this internal stars spin jet axis
so
whether or not this star is a blackhole
it has spin jet axis
ejecting matter from within this star
as
any matter ejected from within this star
as
a blackhole requires the mass of a star to create a blackhole
however we quibble over niceties
it matters not whether this star is or is not a blackhole
because
star or blackhole
at this Liverpudlian University
these
Liverpudlian's are observing a star ejecting mass out its spin axis
so
this theoretical mathematical singularity we call a blackhole is only theoretical
because
what these Liverpudlian's
are
Observing is not the true theoretical blackhole of blackhole fame

Apr 04, 2019
@Benni,

It doesn't matter what is presented -- you'll find some excuse to believe they're faking something. That's a lack of scientific knowledge and understanding does to people.
says obs

Actually, it is far more prudent to hold off the 'enthusiasm' until after the 'groundbreaking news' is presented - and ONLY THEN determine whether it is worthy of enthusiasm or not.


To what enthusiasm are you referring? I was merely stating what I expect you to do, regardless of what is unveiled. I'm looking forward to seeing what they present, but I'm not going to be enthusiastic until I see what it is.
says obs

Then why continue to talk about. It will happen on the 10th and then we shall see what it is all about - whether on not it is newsworthy at all. It must be of great importance to you. However, it is what it is, whether or not it will show absolute evidence for the alleged BH - or it is exactly as Benni predicts it will be. And I wasn't referring only to U.

Apr 04, 2019
This blackhole
Has its roots in the mists of time its roots lay entwined in theory
as that great society of physics
physics world once said you can discuss outside this horizon
but frankly we cannot discuss inside this horizon which
is all well and good if matter that enters does not exit
but this blackhole has its many brexit exits to
numerous to consider for example
these spin jet axis of these blackholes
when blackholes take matter in their circumference
into their interior which upon compressive accumulation
takes the path of least resistance out their spin jet axis
although physics world once said frankly we cannot discuss inside this horizon
unfortunately this blackhole by not abiding by these rules of this horizon
has opened up this door of discussion to
how this blackhole is taking matter into its compass
then ejecting out its spin jet axis into
Two 25,000 Ly star forming Fermi clouds above and below this blackholes host galaxy

Name the BHTheresa May

Apr 04, 2019
@Benni,

It doesn't matter what is presented -- you'll find some excuse to believe they're faking something. That's a lack of scientific knowledge and understanding does to people.
says obs

Actually, it is far more prudent to hold off the 'enthusiasm' until after the 'groundbreaking news' is presented - and ONLY THEN determine whether it is worthy of enthusiasm or not.


To what enthusiasm are you referring? I was merely stating what I expect you to do, regardless of what is unveiled. I'm looking forward to seeing what they present, but I'm not going to be enthusiastic until I see what it is.
says obs

Funny how you have mistaken MY (SEU) comment for what Benni originally said to you and the above is your rejoinder back to Benni. My own comment regarding a premature enthusiasm was to no one in particular, but you seem to have taken it as a personal affront. And you're not even jonesy OR Benni, from what I can see. You seem to hurt too easily.

Apr 04, 2019
Then why continue to talk about. It will happen on the 10th and then we shall see what it is all about - whether on not it is newsworthy at all. It must be of great importance to you. However, it is what it is, whether or not it will show absolute evidence for the alleged BH - or it is exactly as Benni predicts it will be. And I wasn't referring only to U.


First off, Benni hasn't got a clue. Secondly, you do not set yourself up for a massive fall by wording your media advisory in the terms that they did. They know what they've got, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what it is.

https://www.eso.o...nn19018/

Apr 04, 2019
In reference to all who argue with the "Benni", it would be better to simply block it. For one, this seems to be a game for him/her/it. Probably better not to waste one's time and effort. Fun fun fun for "Benni" but hopeless and frustrating for those attempting to reason with him/her/it. Reason is entirely beside the point for "Benni", as well as reality.


I don't "reason" about the IMMUTABLE LAWS of Physics, that's for a novice like you.

I accept the FACT that gravity is mass dependent, you on the other hand falsely accepts a Pop-Cosmology fantasy that INFINITE gravity can be found on the surface of a finite stellar mass you call a black hole.

Apr 04, 2019
I'm a scientist, and I understand the science. I am forced by the evidence to accept the existence of black holes
.......so what's the "evidence" that infinite gravity can exist on the surface of a finite stellar mass you call a black hole?

I was a researcher until I retired.
Yeah, they "retired" you because you started believing in kooky fantasies that INFINITE GRAVITY can exist on the surface of a FINITE MASS.

Apr 04, 2019
I'm a scientist, and I understand the science. I am forced by the evidence to accept the existence of black holes
.......so what's the "evidence" that infinite gravity can exist on the surface of a finite stellar mass you call a black hole?

I was a researcher until I retired.
Yeah, they "retired" you because you started believing in kooky fantasies that INFINITE GRAVITY can exist on the surface of a FINITE MASS.


Stop talking the same old tired crap. You are boring, as well as being scientifically illiterate.

Apr 04, 2019
Stop talking the same old tired crap. You are boring, as well as being scientifically illiterate.
.......and you're one of the many here who believes the Immutable Fantasies of Pop-Cosmology can supercede IMMUTABLE LAWS of PHYSICS.

Apr 04, 2019
Stop talking the same old tired crap. You are boring, as well as being scientifically illiterate.
.......and you're one of the many here who believes the Immutable Fantasies of Pop-Cosmology can supercede IMMUTABLE LAWS of PHYSICS.


Same tired old crap. Get a life. Get an education.

Apr 04, 2019
@Benni,

Funny how you have mistaken MY (SEU) comment for what Benni originally said to you and the above is your rejoinder back to Benni. My own comment regarding a premature enthusiasm was to no one in particular, but you seem to have taken it as a personal affront. And you're not even jonesy OR Benni, from what I can see. You seem to hurt too easily.


I fell asleep with my finger on the enter key.

Apr 04, 2019
Then why continue to talk about. It will happen on the 10th and then we shall see what it is all about - whether on not it is newsworthy at all. It must be of great importance to you. However, it is what it is, whether or not it will show absolute evidence for the alleged BH - or it is exactly as Benni predicts it will be. And I wasn't referring only to U.


First off, Benni hasn't got a clue. Secondly, you do not set yourself up for a massive fall by wording your media advisory in the terms that they did. They know what they've got, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what it is.

https://www.eso.o...nn19018/
says Castrovagina

Guess what!! A "shadow" that is alleged to be a shadow of an Event Horizon or the Black Hole itself - is STILL only a shadow, and can be the shadow of something else entirely. It could also be a layer of dust&gas that has light shining on it - creating a shadow. I will patiently wait for the results

Apr 04, 2019
@Benni,

I'm a scientist, and I understand the science. I am forced by the evidence to accept the existence of black holes
.......so what's the "evidence" that infinite gravity can exist on the surface of a finite stellar mass you call a black hole?

I was a researcher until I retired.
Yeah, they "retired" you because you started believing in kooky fantasies that INFINITE GRAVITY can exist on the surface of a FINITE MASS.


I have never once said that infinite gravity could exist on the surface of a finite mass, nor have I ever believed such a thing.

Now you're just being deliberately stupid, like a little kid.

Apr 04, 2019
Same tired old crap. Get a life. Get an education.
......right, you need to be educated from your immutable Pop-Cosmolgy fantasies where infinite gravity can exist at the surface of a finite stellar mass called a black hole.........there's no pic coming jonesy, try to avoid doing self-harm or losing the remainder of what little is left of your sanity.

Apr 04, 2019
Guess what!! A "shadow" that is alleged to be a shadow of an Event Horizon or the Black Hole itself - is STILL only a shadow, and can be the shadow of something else entirely. It could also be a layer of dust&gas that has light shining on it - creating a shadow.
....sez EGG

Egg, do you understand this shadow of the event horizon this EHT bunch keeps prattling on about?

Seems to me there's gotta be a foreground light casting light on something that creates a shadow on some kind of backdrop behind the object itself. I keep scratching my head wondering what the background is on which some kind of a shadow will appear.

Apr 04, 2019
@Benni lies about what people say. Beware.

Apr 04, 2019
A "shadow" that is alleged to be a shadow of an Event Horizon or the Black Hole itself - is STILL only a shadow, and can be the shadow of something else entirely. It could also be a layer of dust&gas that has light shining on it - creating a shadow.
....sez EGG

Egg, do you understand this shadow of the event horizon this EHT bunch keeps prattling on about?

Seems to me there's gotta be a foreground light casting light on something that creates a shadow on some kind of backdrop behind the object itself. I keep scratching my head wondering what the background is on which some kind of a shadow will appear.
says Benni

They MIGHT be referring to starlight that MIGHT be shining on an object that is ahead of the starlight. But then the object itself should be brightly lit from starlight on its surface that's facing the stars. If there is something BEHIND that object, then the object ITSELF should cast a shadow ON something else behind it. Similar to Earth-Moon-Sun

Apr 04, 2019
Guess what!! A "shadow" that is alleged to be a shadow of an Event Horizon or the Black Hole itself - is STILL only a shadow, and can be the shadow of something else entirely. It could also be a layer of dust&gas that has light shining on it - creating a shadow.
....sez EGG

Egg, do you understand this shadow of the event horizon this EHT bunch keeps prattling on about?

Seems to me there's gotta be a foreground light casting light on something that creates a shadow on some kind of backdrop behind the object itself. I keep scratching my head wondering what the background is on which some kind of a shadow will appear.


Seems to me that you are a clueless oik. Just saying.

Apr 04, 2019
Guess what!! A "shadow" that is alleged to be a shadow of an Event Horizon or the Black Hole itself - is STILL only a shadow, and can be the shadow of something else entirely. It could also be a layer of dust&gas that has light shining on it - creating a shadow.
....sez EGG

Egg, do you understand this shadow of the event horizon this EHT bunch keeps prattling on about?

Seems to me there's gotta be a foreground light casting light on something that creates a shadow on some kind of backdrop behind the object itself. I keep scratching my head wondering what the background is on which some kind of a shadow will appear.


Seems to me that you are a clueless oik. Just saying.
says Castrosvagina

Does this mean that YOU KNOW what exactly is going on? Do YOU have a clue or are you just blowing off hot air as usual to impress the impressionable.

Apr 04, 2019
Looks like the BBC have had a clue what's going on for some time;

How to See a Black Hole: The Universe's Greatest Mystery
Wednesday, 10th April, BBC 4, 21:00hrs (BST)

https://www.bbc.c...m00042l4

Check out the trailer, if for no other reason than Pink Floyd!

Apr 04, 2019
@Benni,

Same tired old crap. Get a life. Get an education.
......right, you need to be educated from your immutable Pop-Cosmolgy fantasies where infinite gravity can exist at the surface of a finite stellar mass called a black hole.........there's no pic coming jonesy, try to avoid doing self-harm or losing the remainder of what little is left of your sanity.


Where did you get this idea that a black hole is supposed to have infinite gravity?

Apr 04, 2019
Does this mean that YOU KNOW what exactly is going on? Do YOU have a clue or are you just blowing off hot air as usual to impress the impressionable.


Read the media advisory, dummy. What do you think 'ground-breaking' implies? And encouraging people to set up satellite events due to the importance of the announcement? And a programme scheduled for the same day on BBC TV?

Apr 04, 2019
Where did you get this idea that a black hole is supposed to have infinite gravity?


Due to being scientifically illiterate.


Apr 04, 2019
Looks like the BBC have had a clue what's going on for some time;

How to See a Black Hole: The Universe's Greatest Mystery
Wednesday, 10th April, BBC 4, 21:00hrs (BST)

https://www.bbc.c...m00042l4

Check out the trailer, if for no other reason than Pink Floyd!
says Castrato

Wow, such a big production - all 30 seconds of it. Thanks. Yes, the BBC has the clue alright.
LOL

Apr 04, 2019
The BBC text says:
This programme will be available shortly after broadcast
How to See a Black Hole: The Universe's Greatest Mystery

For two years BBC cameras have followed, Dr Sheperd Doeleman of the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory and the work of the Event Horizon Telescope project team, a collective of the top scientific minds from around the world. The project combines radio observatories and telescope facilities from around the world to make up a virtual telescope with a diameter spanning the entire planet. This mega-telescope's ultimate mission is to capture the first image ever of a black hole. Although the concept of black holes has been long assumed to be fact, the Event Horizon Telescope's success would definitively prove the existence of this scientific phenomena for the first time – and provide clear visual evidence.

The programme brings viewers into the laboratories, behind the computer screens and beside the telescopes of what may prove to be one of the

Apr 04, 2019
Looks like the BBC have had a clue what's going on for some time;

How to See a Black Hole: The Universe's Greatest Mystery
Wednesday, 10th April, BBC 4, 21:00hrs (BST)

https://www.bbc.c...m00042l4

Check out the trailer, if for no other reason than Pink Floyd!
says Castrato

Wow, such a big production - all 30 seconds of it. Thanks. Yes, the BBC has the clue alright.
LOL


Idiot. They've been following them for 2 years, and have scheduled the programme for the same day as the announcement. What do you think, assuming you're capable of cogent thought?

Apr 04, 2019
I keep scratching my head wondering what the background is on which some kind of a shadow will appear.
says Benni

They MIGHT be referring to starlight that MIGHT be shining on an object that is ahead of the starlight. But then the object itself should be brightly lit from starlight on its surface that's facing the stars. If there is something BEHIND that object, then the object ITSELF should cast a shadow ON something else behind it. Similar to Earth-Moon-Sun


OK I follow so far, but then they talk about a SILHOUETTE as well as a SHADOW two different things as I see it. A fore/back ground light hits an object, then a SHADOW is cast, then following the path of the SHADOW as the SHADOW hits something solid a SILHOUETTE appears. You know, like the Sun,Moon eclipse casts a shadow that travels the distance to Earth, then we see the culmination of the shadow as soon as it hits the surface, that's the silhouette from the way I see it.

Apr 04, 2019
that's the silhouette from the way I see it.


You can't see anything. This stuff is way beyond your feeble mind.

Apr 04, 2019
Golly gee, Beaver. I was so impressed with that trailer that it brought tears to my eyes. It was so scientific. Do you have any more?

Apr 04, 2019
Golly gee, Beaver. I was so impressed with that trailer that it brought tears to my eyes. It was so scientific. Do you have any more?


What are you talking about, idiot?

Apr 04, 2019
that's the silhouette from the way I see it.


You can't see anything. This stuff is way beyond your feeble mind.
says Castrato

So far, you have shown us nothing but a 30 second trailer and the link to the ESO. Got any good movie trailers in your shack there? You could AT LEAST give us your wildest guess as to what we will see on the 10th of April. Something more intelligent, perhaps, than your usual droning?

Apr 04, 2019
that's the silhouette from the way I see it.


You can't see anything. This stuff is way beyond your feeble mind.
says Castrato

So far, you have shown us nothing but a 30 second trailer and the link to the ESO. Got any good movie trailers in your shack there? You could AT LEAST give us your wildest guess as to what we will see on the 10th of April. Something more intelligent, perhaps, than your usual droning?


I have told you, you idiot. Learn to read you cretin.

Read the media advisory, dummy. What do you think 'ground-breaking' implies? And encouraging people to set up satellite events due to the importance of the announcement? And a programme scheduled for the same day on BBC TV?

Apr 04, 2019
that's the silhouette from the way I see it.


You can't see anything. This stuff is way beyond your feeble mind.
says Castrato

So far, you have shown us nothing but a 30 second trailer and the link to the ESO. Got any good movie trailers in your shack there? You could AT LEAST give us your wildest guess as to what we will see on the 10th of April. Something more intelligent, perhaps, than your usual droning?


I have told you, you idiot. Learn to read you cretin.

Read the media advisory, dummy. What do you think 'ground-breaking' implies? And encouraging people to set up satellite events due to the importance of the announcement? And a programme scheduled for the same day on BBC TV?


Set up satellite events. This is for the MEDIA on that day. Do you not understand that that is why they are encouraging the MEDA to register on or before the 7th of April? They want the MEDIA to report to the public. So the MEDIA gets it first

Apr 04, 2019
Hello? Hello? Gollygosh, Beaver. You're so smart that I feel so puny. Wanna go up to the clubhouse and play scientist? You can experiment on Susie. She will be there too. She has a trailer she wants to show you.

Apr 04, 2019
Set up satellite events. This is for the MEDIA on that day. Do you not understand that that is why they are encouraging the MEDA to register on or before the 7th of April? They want the MEDIA to report to the public. So the MEDIA gets it first


Listen, you boneheaded, scientifically illiterate clown - you do not call a result 'ground-breaking' if it isn't. You do not encourage satellite events 'due to the importance' of the announcement, if you haven't got something of huge importance to announce. Understand, thicko? Want to bet on what they announce? Benni didn't have the cojones. Maybe you've recently grown a pair. Loser never posts here again. OK?

Apr 04, 2019
Hello? Hello? Gollygosh, Beaver. You're so smart that I feel so puny. Wanna go up to the clubhouse and play scientist? You can experiment on Susie. She will be there too. She has a trailer she wants to show you.


Christ you are thick. And puerile to boot. You don't even understand any science. What are you doing here, you poser?

Apr 04, 2019
Set up satellite events. This is for the MEDIA on that day. Do you not understand that that is why they are encouraging the MEDA to register on or before the 7th of April? They want the MEDIA to report to the public. So the MEDIA gets it first


Listen, you boneheaded, scientifically illiterate clown - you do not call a result 'ground-breaking' if it isn't. You do not encourage satellite events 'due to the importance' of the announcement, if you haven't got something of huge importance to announce. Understand, thicko? Want to bet on what they announce? Benni didn't have the cojones. Maybe you've recently grown a pair. Loser never posts here again. OK?
says Castrato

LOL
Yup. It's so important that they want the MEDIA (RADIO, NEWSPAPERS, TV) to see it first before anyone else. Am I a news reporter? Can I get in to watch the event without credentials? I think not. Could YOU get in. No way. So all you have is a 30 second trailer.

Apr 04, 2019
Yup. It's so important that they want the MEDIA (RADIO, NEWSPAPERS, TV) to see it first before anyone else. Am I a news reporter? Can I get in to watch the event without credentials? I think not. Could YOU get in. No way. So all you have is a 30 second trailer.


You really are dumb, aren't you? Can't even read and comprehend a very simple media advisory. Go away you fool, you are an uneducated waste of space. The satellite events they are calling for are on the day, you idiot. And the whole bloody thing is live streamed. You don't need to get in, you cretin.

Apr 04, 2019
Hello? Hello? Gollygosh, Beaver. You're so smart that I feel so puny. Wanna go up to the clubhouse and play scientist? You can experiment on Susie. She will be there too. She has a trailer she wants to show you.


Christ you are thick. And puerile to boot. You don't even understand any science. What are you doing here, you poser?


I am but a mere scholar and interested observer. But if I AM, then what are YOU?

Apr 04, 2019
Hello? Hello? Gollygosh, Beaver. You're so smart that I feel so puny. Wanna go up to the clubhouse and play scientist? You can experiment on Susie. She will be there too. She has a trailer she wants to show you.


Christ you are thick. And puerile to boot. You don't even understand any science. What are you doing here, you poser?


I am but a mere scholar and interested observer. But if I AM, then what are YOU?


Scholar? You? Don't make me laugh, you clown. You don't know jack about any science.

Apr 04, 2019
Looks like the BBC have had a clue what's going on for some time;

How to See a Black Hole: The Universe's Greatest Mystery
Wednesday, 10th April, BBC 4, 21:00hrs (BST)

https://www.bbc.c...m00042l4

Check out the trailer, if for no other reason than Pink Floyd!
says Castrato

Wow, such a big production - all 30 seconds of it. Thanks. Yes, the BBC has the clue alright.
LOL


Idiot. They've been following them for 2 years, and have scheduled the programme for the same day as the announcement. What do you think, assuming you're capable of cogent thought?


It is ONLY a DOCUMENTARY FOR THE MEDIA TO WATCH. It even says DOCUMENTARY. THAT IS the program, you dolt. And everyone knows how you hate to be proven wrong. Too bad. Try again.

Apr 04, 2019
It is ONLY a DOCUMENTARY FOR THE MEDIA TO WATCH. It even says DOCUMENTARY. THAT IS the program, you dolt. And everyone knows how you hate to be proven wrong. Too bad. Try again.


No it is not a documentary for the media to watch, you braindead idiot. It is released on a public TV channel, on the same day as the announcement, you fool. They are not showing the BBC documentary at the press announcement you bloody idiot. The press announcement will be that they have imaged the silhouette of a BH on the EH.

Apr 04, 2019

The Title of the BBC page is:
"HOW TO SEE A BLACK HOLE: THE UNIVERSE'S GREATEST MYSTERY".

The Documentary to be shown to the MEDIA will explain HOW to see the Black Hole, and will provide to the news media what, who, where, how and why. That is all. IF they show an actual Black Hole, it will most likely be shown at the climax of the program/documentary.

FYI it does NOT say, "We see a Black Hole and here is what it looks like"

Apr 04, 2019

The Title of the BBC page is:
"HOW TO SEE A BLACK HOLE: THE UNIVERSE'S GREATEST MYSTERY".

The Documentary to be shown to the MEDIA will explain HOW to see the Black Hole, and will provide to the news media what, who, where, how and why. That is all. IF they show an actual Black Hole, it will most likely be shown at the climax of the program/documentary.

FYI it does NOT say, "We see a Black Hole and here is what it looks like"


Jesus H. Christ, you have the IQ of a wombat, you clown. The documentary is not being shown to the media you fool. It is being shown to the British public at 9pm UK time. The press announcement is at 2pm UK time. It is live streamed, you clown. Anyone can watch it.

Apr 04, 2019

The Title of the BBC page is:
"HOW TO SEE A BLACK HOLE: THE UNIVERSE'S GREATEST MYSTERY".

The Documentary to be shown to the MEDIA will explain HOW to see the Black Hole, and will provide to the news media what, who, where, how and why. That is all. IF they show an actual Black Hole, it will most likely be shown at the climax of the program/documentary.

FYI it does NOT say, "We see a Black Hole and here is what it looks like"


Jesus H. Christ, you have the IQ of a wombat, you clown. The documentary is not being shown to the media you fool. It is being shown to the British public at 9pm UK time. The press announcement is at 2pm UK time. It is live streamed, you clown. Anyone can watch it.


Well then, make sure that YOU watch it. So you're saying that the media was required to register by the 7th of April for nothing? That is hard to believe. As it is being telecast from Brussels, why would they request the media to register if everyone can watch it?

Apr 04, 2019
Well then, make sure that YOU watch it. So you're saying that the media was required to register by the 7th of April for nothing? That is hard to believe. As it is being telecast from Brussels, why would they request the media to register if everyone can watch it?


Because they don't want a bunch of journos turning up if they haven't got room to accommodate them. And the media do not want a shitty screencapture of a stream for their TV news headlines. And they want to ask questions. And do interviews. Did you ever attend school? Or are you still there?

Apr 04, 2019
Well then, make sure that YOU watch it. So you're saying that the media was required to register by the 7th of April for nothing? That is hard to believe. As it is being telecast from Brussels, why would they request the media to register if everyone can watch it?


Because they don't want a bunch of journos turning up if they haven't got room to accommodate them. And the media do not want a shitty screencapture of a stream for their TV news headlines. And they want to ask questions. And do interviews. Did you ever attend school? Or are you still there?


And yet, on the 10th the program will be ~59 minutes long.
"The programme brings viewers into the laboratories, behind the computer screens and beside the telescopes of what may prove to be one of the great astrophysical achievements in human history."
It says nothing on that BBC page of what this 'great astrophysical achievement is. No mention of a Black Hole, silhouette, shadow. Seems a big secret.

Apr 04, 2019
And yet, on the 10th the program will be ~59 minutes long.
"The programme brings viewers into the laboratories, behind the computer screens and beside the telescopes of what may prove to be one of the great astrophysical achievements in human history."
It says nothing on that BBC page of what this 'great astrophysical achiement is. No mention of a Black Hole, silhouette, shadow. Seems a big secret.


WTH has how long the documentary runs for got to do with anything? My God you are stupid. The documentary is being shown 7 hours after the announcement. Get this through your thick skull - it will not be shown at the press announcement. How thick can you be? And do you think the BBC would be allowed to pre-empt the announcement, and tell us all what is going to be said? Get real, you idiot. And get an education while you're at it.

Apr 05, 2019
And yet, on the 10th the program will be ~59 minutes long.
"The programme brings viewers into the laboratories, behind the computer screens and beside the telescopes of what may prove to be one of the great astrophysical achievements in human history."
It says nothing on that BBC page of what this 'great astrophysical achiement is. No mention of a Black Hole, silhouette, shadow. Seems a big secret.


WTH has how long the documentary runs for got to do with anything? My God you are stupid. The documentary is being shown 7 hours after the announcement. Get this through your thick skull - it will not be shown at the press announcement. How thick can you be? And do you think the BBC would be allowed to pre-empt the announcement, and tell us all what is going to be said? Get real, you idiot. And get an education while you're at it.


And what is the 'press announcement' that is so secret that they can't even dare to mention what the greatest achievement is?

Apr 05, 2019
And what is the 'press announcement' that is so secret that they can't even dare to mention what the greatest achievement is?


What do you think, thicko? What is the name of the telescope? Have they found life on Mars? Contacted ET at the centre of the galaxy? Have you always been this stupid, or do you have to practice?

Apr 05, 2019
And what is the 'press announcement' that is so secret that they can't even dare to mention what the greatest achievement is?


What do you think, thicko? What is the name of the telescope? Have they found life on Mars? Contacted ET at the centre of the galaxy? Have you always been this stupid, or do you have to practice?


I asked you a question and you expect me to answer my own? You're supposed to be so smart. Just answer the question. What is the 'press announcement' about?

Apr 05, 2019
And what is the 'press announcement' that is so secret that they can't even dare to mention what the greatest achievement is?


What do you think, thicko? What is the name of the telescope? Have they found life on Mars? Contacted ET at the centre of the galaxy? Have you always been this stupid, or do you have to practice?


I asked you a question and you expect me to answer my own? You're supposed to be so smart. Just answer the question. What is the 'press announcement' about?


I've already told you, you idiot.

Apr 05, 2019
And what is the 'press announcement' that is so secret that they can't even dare to mention what the greatest achievement is?


What do you think, thicko? What is the name of the telescope? Have they found life on Mars? Contacted ET at the centre of the galaxy? Have you always been this stupid, or do you have to practice?


I asked you a question and you expect me to answer my own? You're supposed to be so smart. Just answer the question. What is the 'press announcement' about?


I've already told you, you idiot.


No you haven't. Liar.

Apr 05, 2019
The press announcement will be that they have imaged the silhouette of a BH on the EH.


53 minutes ago, you blind liar.

Apr 05, 2019
The press announcement will be that they have imaged the silhouette of a BH on the EH.


53 minutes ago, you blind liar.


Imaged a silhouette. Of a Black Hole on the Event Horizon. And yet they say that the black hole's gravity is so strong that not even light can escape from it.
A silhouette. LOL

Apr 05, 2019
Imaged a silhouette. Of a Black on the Event Horizon. And yet they say that the black hole's gravity is so strong that not even light can escape from it.
A silhouette. LOL


You really are too thick for words. Grow up, get an education, and come back when you understand even a modicum of science, you ignorant poser.

Apr 05, 2019
Imaged a silhouette. Of a Black on the Event Horizon. And yet they say that the black hole's gravity is so strong that not even light can escape from it.
A silhouette. LOL


You really are too thick for words. Grow up, get an education, and come back when you understand even a modicum of science, you ignorant poser.


An airbrushed silhouette, more likely. Anything to prove theirselves right.

Apr 05, 2019
An airbrushed silhouette, more likely. Anything to prove theirselves right.


What a complete tosser.

Apr 05, 2019
There is no real image created by the EHT. All it is algorithmic maths gymnastics with endless parameters, they are only missing the ribbons and dancing.

Apr 05, 2019
There is no real image created by the EHT. All it is algorithmic maths gymnastics with endless parameters, they are only missing the ribbons and dancing.


What the hell would you know, you clown?

Apr 05, 2019
@SEU,

The press announcement will be that they have imaged the silhouette of a BH on the EH.


53 minutes ago, you blind liar.


Imaged a silhouette. Of a Black Hole on the Event Horizon. And yet they say that the black hole's gravity is so strong that not even light can escape from it.
A silhouette. LOL


A silhouette is all you can get from a black hole, because its gravity is, indeed, too strong for light to escape from it. Ain't nothin' comin' outta that damn thing, ya know? Light checks in, it doesn't check out.

Apr 05, 2019
What did I say before?

It doesn't matter what evidence they are presented with. They'll just keep denying it. Even if it's good enough to have a huge press conference hosted at multiple sites worldwide.

No evidence will be good enough for them. They're trolls.

Apr 05, 2019
@SEU,

And what is the 'press announcement' that is so secret that they can't even dare to mention what the greatest achievement is?


What do you think, thicko? What is the name of the telescope? Have they found life on Mars? Contacted ET at the centre of the galaxy? Have you always been this stupid, or do you have to practice?


I asked you a question and you expect me to answer my own? You're supposed to be so smart. Just answer the question. What is the 'press announcement' about?


Do you think they're going to blow everything on a commercial for the real thing? They apparently have more sense than to do that.

Apr 05, 2019
@Da Schneib,

What did I say before?

It doesn't matter what evidence they are presented with. They'll just keep denying it. Even if it's good enough to have a huge press conference hosted at multiple sites worldwide.

No evidence will be good enough for them. They're trolls.


I know.

Sometimes I just like pointing out a person's ridiculousness to him. Or her. Or it. Whatever the space alien's sex actually is. For all I know, that species has three or more sexes. After all, Larry Niven's Puppeteers have three sexes. Perhaps some real life alien species do, too. You never know.

Apr 05, 2019
@cantdrive85,

There is no real image created by the EHT. All it is algorithmic maths gymnastics with endless parameters, they are only missing the ribbons and dancing.


Humans don't see in three dimensions. The brain combines two separate images, using evolved algorithms, and our brain interprets that as three dimensions. Hold your finger in front of your nose, but don't look at it -- you see two distinct finger images. Then focus on your finger, and you see two distinct background images. Now look at the finger in front of your nose with one eye, then the other -- two distinct images. Your brain makes you think you're seeing in three dimensions.

Humans see only three colors -- red, green, and blue. Our brains combine those colors using algorithms to make us think we see the entire spectrum.

Nothing wrong with algorithms. Especially given each eye's blind spot.

yep
Apr 05, 2019
A silhouette is all you can get from a black hole, because its gravity is, indeed, too strong for light to escape from it. Ain't nothin' comin' outta that damn thing, ya know? Light checks in, it doesn't check out.

Black holes must be a placeholder just like dark matter because there are pretty large jets coming out of those ain't nothin' comin' out holes.

Since you as a "scientist" believe in the magical nonsence of Big Bang I'm curious to your opinion of Bostick's or Arp's work.


Apr 05, 2019
@yep,

A silhouette is all you can get from a black hole, because its gravity is, indeed, too strong for light to escape from it. Ain't nothin' comin' outta that damn thing, ya know? Light checks in, it doesn't check out.

Black holes must be a placeholder just like dark matter because there are pretty large jets coming out of those ain't nothin' comin' out holes.

Since you as a "scientist" believe in the magical nonsence of Big Bang I'm curious to your opinion of Bostick's or Arp's work.


Black hole jets come from a black hole's accretion disk, not from the black hole, itself.

Apr 05, 2019
Blackhole sees his Shadow
SEU> Imaged a silhouette Of a Black Hole on the Event Horizon And yet they say that the black hole's gravity is so strong that not even light can escape from it A silhouette LOL

SEU
Blackhole has come out his hole and seen his shadow
this is brilliant
I ask you
television dramatics production corporation
films
COX and BOX

A silhouette
is Blackhole between the observer and a bright light
where as
A shadow
is Blackhole with a bright light silhouetting Blackhole on the ground
but
in the world of Blackhole neither shadow nor silhouette are true
because
according to theory no light escapes Blackholes horizon
as
when no light passing Blackhole escapes Blackhole, Blackhole cannot display its shadow
and conversely
Blackhole between the observer and a bright light where Blackhole absorbs that light no silhouette is seen
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO SEE BLACKHOLES SILHOETTE OR SHADOW
which
comes to
Blackholes Black Canvas Day

Apr 05, 2019
Correction in spin jet axis
observicist> Black hole jets come from a black hole's accretion disk, not from the black hole, itself

Observicist
All articles illustrate Blackholes ejecting the matter they take in
out again
through their spin jet axis
including
This article
https://3c1703fe8...firs.jpg

Apr 05, 2019
Correction in spin jet axis is all in conservation of angular momentum

Observicist, there is a scientifically sound basis
these graphic artists
are
Illustrating Blackhole ejecting matter out its spin jet axis
because
Blackholes roots lie in Neutron stars
where
Neutron stars eject their electromagnetic beam out their spin axis
as
Observicist, Neutron stars roots lie in Pulsar stars
as
the reason for the pulse
Observicist old bean
is
this Pulsar star is precessing
so
a spinning Star goes supernova
revealing a spinning Pulsar star
a spinning Neutron star
collapsing to a spinning Blackhole star
all
Thanks to conservation of angular momentum

Apr 05, 2019
because its gravity is, indeed, too strong for light to escape from it. Ain't nothin' comin' outta that damn thing, ya know? Light checks in, it doesn't check out.
Observatory......how do you know this?

Maybe you, like schneibo, have a secret 19th Century TUGMath calculation that was given to you by the authors of Aether Theory, Particle Light Theory, & Tired Light Theory but you're unwilling to share it with the rest of us?

Why don't you want to share your Pop-Cosmology theory with those of us who believe the immutable laws of physics will ALWAYS prevail over the immutable fantasies of Pop-Cosmology that you live for? Are you afraid you have something to lose?

Apr 05, 2019
Black hole jets come from a black hole's accretion disk, not from the black hole, itself.
sez Observatory

......and maybe you already have a REAL PICTURE of an accretion disc around a BH? Accretion discs around all other stellar mass are VISIBLE you know? Or maybe you didn't know.

A BH accretion disc is supposed to be 5 times the diameter of the BH itself, at least that's the fantasy calculation. So why can't we observe a disc at SgrA*? It would stretch beyond the orbit of Mars it would be so big. Maybe you'd like to tell us it's because even the dusty accretion disc is so dusty that it hides itself from our view?

Apr 05, 2019
Black hole jets come from a black hole's accretion disk, not from the black hole, itself.
sez Observatory

......and maybe you already have a REAL PICTURE of an accretion disc around a BH? Accretion discs around all other stellar mass are VISIBLE you know? Or maybe you didn't know.

A BH accretion disc is supposed to be 5 times the diameter of the BH itself, at least that's the fantasy calculation. So why can't we observe a disc at SgrA*? It would stretch beyond the orbit of Mars it would be so big. Maybe you'd like to tell us it's because even the dusty accretion disc is so dusty that it hides itself from our view?


We do observe it, idiot.

Apr 05, 2019
because its gravity is, indeed, too strong for light to escape from it. Ain't nothin' comin' outta that damn thing, ya know? Light checks in, it doesn't check out.
Observatory......how do you know this?

Maybe you, like schneibo, have a secret 19th Century TUGMath calculation that was given to you by the authors of Aether Theory, Particle Light Theory, & Tired Light Theory but you're unwilling to share it with the rest of us?

Why don't you want to share your Pop-Cosmology theory with those of us who believe the immutable laws of physics will ALWAYS prevail over the immutable fantasies of Pop-Cosmology that you live for? Are you afraid you have something to lose?


Go away you fool. You know nothing about the science. Go get an education, and stop commenting on things that you don't understand.

Apr 05, 2019
@cantdrive85,

There is no real image created by the EHT. All it is algorithmic maths gymnastics with endless parameters,


Humans don't see in three dimensions. The brain combines two separate images, using evolved algorithms, and our brain interprets that as three dimensions. Hold your finger in front of your nose, but don't look at it -- you see two distinct finger images.

Humans see only three colors -- red, green, and blue. Our brains combine those colors using algorithms to make us think we see the entire spectrum.

Nothing wrong with algorithms. Especially given each eye's blind spot.

There are limitations to algorithmic maths gymnastics, interpretation and application of the guesswork is but one. The myriad of free parameters another, lest we forget there is no way to confirm any of it via experiments. It's all still conjecture, not proof or confirmation of anything.

Apr 05, 2019
There are limitations to algorithmic maths gymnastics, interpretation and application of the guesswork is but one. The myriad of free parameters another, lest we forget there is no way to confirm any of it via experiments. It's all still conjecture, not proof or confirmation of anything.


Yes it will be. Silhouette, event horizon, 4m solar masses from stellar orbits, and gravitational redshift. All of which were predicted in black hole theory. There is no alternative explanation.

Apr 05, 2019
There is no alternative explanation.
........sure there is, the Immutable Laws of Physics whereby gravity is mass dependent & not the fantasy math of Pop-Cosmology dependent.

Apr 05, 2019
There is no alternative explanation.
........sure there is, the Immutable Laws of Physics whereby gravity is mass dependent & not the fantasy math of Pop-Cosmology dependent.


Stop talking crap you fool, and explain the observations.

Apr 05, 2019
Blackhole in shadow
Benni> A BH accretion disc is supposed to be 5 times the diameter of the BH itself. So why can't we observe a disc at SgrA*? It would stretch beyond the orbit of Mars it would be so big. Maybe you'd like to tell us it's because even the dusty accretion disc is so dusty that it hides itself from our view?

Benni
The closer we get to Blackhole in shadow the further away this Picci seems
because
as this Blackholes Brexit day looms
Blackhole is negotiating a delay
and
enlisting the assistance of theoreticians
laying the grounds for a temporary stay of Brexit day
because
all Blackholes advocates proclaim the dust that obscures Blackhole
is
also obscuring Blackholes accretion disc
so more time is required to prepare Blackhole for his Brexit
in the meantime
Enjoy this Artist Illustration because it will not get any better than this!
https://3c1703fe8...firs.jpg

Apr 05, 2019
There is no alternative explanation.
........sure there is, the Immutable Laws of Physics whereby gravity is mass dependent & not the fantasy math of Pop-Cosmology dependent.


How would you prove that Wal?

Apr 05, 2019

laying the grounds for a temporary stay of Brexit day
because
all Blackholes advocates proclaim the dust that obscures Blackhole
is
also obscuring Blackholes accretion disc
so more time is required to prepare Blackhole for his Brexit
in the meantime
Enjoy this Artist Illustration because it will not get any better than this!
https://3c1703fe8...firs.jpg


Lying clown .Where is this being delayed, liar?

Apr 05, 2019
I'm not even going to bother.

Apr 05, 2019
Rotating Black Hole Shadow in Perfect Fluid Dark Matter

We study analytically the shadow cast by the rotating black hole in the perfect fluid dark matter
The apparent shape of the shadow depends upon the black hole spin and the perfect fluid dark matter intensity parameter
In general the shadow is a perfect circle in the non-rotating case and a deformed one in the rotating case
Finally, we propose that to observe the effect of the black hole spin and the perfect fluid dark matter intensity on the shadow of the black hole Sgr A∗ at the centre of the Milky Way
To read more on
Rotating Black Hole Shadow in Perfect Fluid Dark Matter
By
Xian Hou, Zhaoyi Xu, Jiancheng Wang
Castrogiovanni, Feel free to visit
https://arxiv.org...10.06381

p.s. an intuitive search in Google of < Blackhole in shadow > by granville it is amazing that which lies a hiding in the shadows - Blackhole's Brexit Day Awaits - one hopes it's not a damp squid

Apr 05, 2019
Portrait of a black hole - physics world

Astronomers at the Event Horizon Telescope are setting up the most elaborate of shots, as they aim their global network of telescopes towards the black hole at the centre of our galaxy. Tushna Commissariat investigates how it is possible to image an object that swallows everything, including light
We live in the age of photography. The huge popularity of Instagram, Snapchat and the "selfie" suggests that the old idiom of a picture being worth a thousand words has never rung more true
Hidden behind colossal veils of gas and dust, some 26,000 light-years away
It sounds an impossible feat – after all, as its name suggests, a black hole is a point in space from which nothing, not even light, can escape…

To continue reading
visit
https://physicswo...ck-hole/

p.s. even PW says < Hidden behind colossal veils of gas and dust, some 26,000 light-years away > this does not bode well

Apr 05, 2019
@SEU,

And what is the 'press announcement' that is so secret that they can't even dare to mention what the greatest achievement is?


What do you think, thicko? What is the name of the telescope? Have they found life on Mars? Contacted ET at the centre of the galaxy? Have you always been this stupid, or do you have to practice?


I asked you a question and you expect me to answer my own? You're supposed to be so smart. Just answer the question. What is the 'press announcement' about?


Do you think they're going to blow everything on a commercial for the real thing? They apparently have more sense than to do that.
says obs

Perhaps it might turn out somewhatsimilar to Bicep2 where RealityCheck has been harassed continuously over the Four Fatal Flaws which RC claims to have known all along - and for which CS and DS have been in harangue mode on RC ever since.
We will just have to wait until the 10th to see whether or not ESO is full of it.

Apr 05, 2019
As an aside, it appears that rogerdallas and kl31415 are one and the same person. And I would venture to assume that both are sox of Da Schniebo, whose speech patterns are also similar to both. This is a well-known characteristic of Da Scniebo's - to have the ability to talk to himself without being queried as to why he is doing it. And folks like obs, Castrovagina and several others just LOVE Da Schniebo to pieces that they are willing to overlook his idiosyncrasies and strangeness.

Apr 05, 2019
Well then, make sure that YOU watch it. So you're saying that the media was required to register by the 7th of April for nothing? That is hard to believe. As it is being telecast from Brussels, why would they request the media to register if everyone can watch it?


Because they don't want a bunch of journos turning up if they haven't got room to accommodate them. And the media do not want a shitty screencapture of a stream for their TV news headlines. And they want to ask questions. And do interviews. Did you ever attend school? Or are you still there?
says Castrovagina

Since it is being held in Brussels and the call is out for pre-registration, one would think that they are only giving out a number of 'tickets' so that everyone may be accommodated. In some cases, a room with a huge TV screen might be used for any walk-ins who haven't registered. Most often, all media reps would be present with their smartphones and cameras if they bothered to go to Brussels

Apr 05, 2019
Since it is being held in Brussels and the call is out for pre-registration, one would think that they are only giving out a number of 'tickets' so that everyone may be accommodated. In some cases, a room with a huge TV screen might be used for any walk-ins who haven't registered. Most often, all media reps would be present with their smartphones and cameras if they bothered to go to Brussels
/......can't wait to hear them say: We almost have a shadow.

Apr 05, 2019
@Da Schneib,

What did I say before?

It doesn't matter what evidence they are presented with. They'll just keep denying it. Even if it's good enough to have a huge press conference hosted at multiple sites worldwide.

No evidence will be good enough for them. They're trolls.


I know.

Sometimes I just like pointing out a person's ridiculousness to him. Or her. Or it. Whatever the space alien's sex actually is. For all I know, that species has three or more sexes. After all, Larry Niven's Puppeteers have three sexes. Perhaps some real life alien species do, too. You never know.
says observatist

LOL I notice that you have bought into Da Scniebo's weirdness where he believes that 'alien lizards' and 'alien mindreaders' have come to live on Earth. Hmmm, 3 sexes you say? Perhaps it is time for you to consult with the LGBTQ community as well as your local psychotherapist to find out why you are so easily pulled into such strange beliefs. Does you wife know?

Apr 05, 2019
REMINDER: History shows us that many past 'ground breaking' discoveries were made while looking for something else entirely! :)

So the odds are not that bad that the 'ground breaking' discovery to be announced may be SOMETHING ELSE that was UNEXPECTED or PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN, but now observed SERENDIPITOUSLY while looking for the BH EH. :)

Apr 05, 2019
REMINDER: History shows us that many past 'ground breaking' discoveries were made while looking for something else entirely! :)

So the odds are not that bad that the 'ground breaking' discovery to be announced may be SOMETHING ELSE that was UNEXPECTED or PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN, but now observed SERENDIPITOUSLY while looking for the BH EH. :)


Sure, they're gonna see lots more RADIO wave activity in that area than they have seen ever before, then leave you hanging. Maybe they'll toss in a cute little quip about RADIO waves redshifting making them shorter than what they expected to see.

Apr 05, 2019
@Benni.
REMINDER: History shows us that many past 'ground breaking' discoveries were made while looking for something else entirely! :)

So the odds are not that bad that the 'ground breaking' discovery to be announced may be SOMETHING ELSE that was UNEXPECTED or PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN, but now observed SERENDIPITOUSLY while looking for the BH EH. :)


Sure, they're gonna see lots more RADIO wave activity in that area than they have seen ever before, then leave you hanging.
Could be. Who knows. Let's wait and 'see' (pardon the pun).

Maybe they'll toss in a cute little quip about RADIO waves REDSHIFTING making them SHORTER than what they expected to see.
Since I trust you have read and properly understood my explanations to you (that redshifting LENGTHENS radio waves too), then I must assume you're just being silly there because you were shown to be confused about the physical effect implied by the 'redshift' term as used in physics. :)

Apr 05, 2019
I'm not even going to bother.
You shouldn't. These are anti-science trolls. No evidence will convince them; their emotions deny reality. There is no cure. They will continue lying until they die.

Apr 05, 2019
These are anti-science trolls. No evidence will convince them; their emotions deny reality. There is no cure. They will continue lying until they die.
........schneibo, you telling the truth is way over your head.


yep
Apr 06, 2019
You shouldn't. These are anti-science trolls. No evidence will convince them; their emotions deny reality.

My Psychology professor said "never should on yourself". There is a difference between anti-science and anti-consensus stooge hypocrite.
Bostick proved dark matter was unnecessary with spiral and barred Galaxy discharge formations from plasmoids in the laboratory. Meaning electro magnetism is the prime mover, dark matter is unnecessary except to gravity based mathematical assumption. Arp proved red shift was not an indication of distance by his compilation of irregular galaxies of low and high red shift ones connected by matter. Had you been paying attention to Granville it would be obvious black holes are nonsence for the multiple reasons espoused including the jets emanating from the poles not the acreation disk. This is consistent with plasmoids not black holes at the center of Galaxies. It's all very simple no dark magics needed and a matter of scale. KISS

Apr 06, 2019
These are anti-science trolls. No evidence will convince them; their emotions deny reality. There is no cure. They will continue lying until they die.
........schneibo, you telling the truth is way over your head.
says Benni

That is true. Da Schniebo is a consummate LIAR who appears to not understand/realise that he is lying WHILE he is lying. When caught in the act of telling lies, Da Schniebo snarls, huffs and puffs and rages as how his detractors are anti-science trolls, while ignoring the fact that such as we are happily discussing scientific news-of-the-day and what their implications might be.
After all, the pessimism, cynicism, doubting and questioning that we do are all part of scientific discourse which the majority of true scientists appreciate so that they may improve their methods with the realisation that THEY are being watched with a critical eye.
It is far easier to just accept what scientists say, but THAT is anti-science in itself

Apr 06, 2019
Bostick proved dark matter was unnecessary with spiral and barred Galaxy discharge formations from plasmoids in the laboratory.


No he did not, liar. There is zero evidence for such idiotic woo.

yep
Apr 07, 2019
No he did not, liar. There is zero evidence for such idiotic woo.

https://www.resea...ophysics
Liar

Apr 07, 2019
accepting the existence of black holes is equivalent to believing Earth is flat.


Fixed it for you.

Black Holes, and dark matter, is magical nonsense based in the dogma of a Big Bang priori. If you can believe one miracle apparently others are easier to swallow.


Don't pervert perfectly fine claims.

Historically black holes preceded the notion of an expanding universe [Eddington 1924 vs Lemaìtre 1927], and they have nothing in common except as based on gravity. Observation of expansion of the universe is older than the observation of dark matter, which originally had little to do with each other [Hubble 1929 on galaxy redshifts vs Zwicky 1933 on galaxy clusters virial behavior].

And since those are perfectly fine, well tested theories with little in the way of contenders, why would we not accept them? Derive a better theory, *then* complain.

Posted this, then noted the other trolling: you are blocked now, two strikes and out.

yep
Apr 08, 2019
I stand corrected.
Black holes, dark matter and Big Bang is all magical nonsense. If you can believe one miracle apparently others are easier to swallow.
Fixed it for you.

Apr 08, 2019
I'm not even going to bother.
You shouldn't. These are anti-science trolls. No evidence will convince them; their emotions deny reality. There is no cure. They will continue lying until they die.


They can't help themselves, there are reasons this kind of behaviour is symptomatic of personality disorders.

Apr 08, 2019
No he did not, liar. There is zero evidence for such idiotic woo.

https://www.resea...ophysics
Liar


Lol. Unpublished crap with Thornhill as an author? Do me a favour. That idiot believes Earth used to orbit Saturn! Worthless trash. And still does not explain how this woo is supposed to move stars around.

Apr 08, 2019