Greenland ice loss quickening

December 7, 2018, European Space Agency
The temperature of Earth is rising owing to increased concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. And, one of the most dramatic signs of climate change is the rate at which Earth’s ice is melting. Satellites orbiting high above our heads are used to measure changes in the height of the ice and also to track how fast glaciers flow. Credit: European Space Agency

Using a 25-year record of ESA satellite data, recent research shows that the pace at which Greenland is losing ice is getting faster.

The research, published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters, uses radar altimetry data gathered by the ERS, Envisat and CryoSat missions between 1992 and 2016.

Radar altimeters record the height of the surface topography along the satellite's ground track. They precisely measure the height of ice, water and land by timing the interval between the transmission and reception of very short radar pulses.

Over time, these measurements are used, for example, to work out how the height – or elevation – of huge ice sheets is changing, which, in turn, can be used to monitor ice loss.

Although the , working through ESA's Climate Change Initiative, found only modest elevation changes in the early 1990s, the pace of thinning is clear in the satellite observations from 2003 onwards.

"A pattern of thinning appears to dominate a large fraction of the ice sheet margins at the beginning of the millennium, with individual exhibiting large thinning rates," says Louise Sandberg Sørensen, the paper's lead author.

The image shows Greenland ice-sheet annual elevation change in 2015, but using a 25-year record of ESA satellite data, recent research shows that the pace at which Greenland is losing ice is getting faster. The research, published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters, uses radar altimetry data gathered by the ERS, Envisat and CryoSat missions between 1992 and 2016. Credit: ESA/Planetary Visions
"Over the full 25-year period, the general picture shows much larger volume losses are experienced in west, northwest and southeast basins of Greenland compared to the more steady-state situations in the colder far north."

This, according to Dr. Sørensen, highlights the strong sensitivity of the outlet glaciers of Greenland as well as the ongoing need for reliable, long-term monitoring of climate variables that help to improve and inform policy responses.

The Greenland ice sheet is an important cog in the global climate system with its meltwater, for example, influencing ocean circulation in the North Atlantic. Ongoing monitoring of the ice sheet is equally important in understanding its contribution to the extent and changing rate in sea-level rise.

The more recent Copernicus Sentinel-3 mission is also being used to monitor changing ice height.

Greenland ice height from Sentinel-3B. Credit: contains modified Copernicus Sentinel data (2018), processed by ESA

ESA's Climate Change Initiative is a research programme that uses four decades of Earth observation archives established by ESA and its Member States to support the climate information requirements of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.

In addition to the Greenland ice sheet, the programme is developing long-term, consistent data products based on satellite derived observations for a further 22 essential climate variables required by the international science community to understand the Earth system.

Explore further: CryoSat reveals recent Greenland ice loss

More information: Louise Sandberg Sørensen et al. 25 years of elevation changes of the Greenland Ice Sheet from ERS, Envisat, and CryoSat-2 radar altimetry, Earth and Planetary Science Letters (2018). DOI: 10.1016/j.epsl.2018.05.015

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ted ted
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 07, 2018
so what is the temperature sweet spot, or, however unbelievable, is it now?
V4Vendicar
5 / 5 (3) Dec 09, 2018
Perhaps ted ted could take some time to write a meaningful sentence. What he has written so far, is incoherent.

Da Schneib
4.3 / 5 (11) Dec 09, 2018
The sweet spot is far behind us. It's gonna get really bad.
ted ted
1 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2018
so nobody appears to have much idea were the sweet spot is, especially v4vendicar

i suspect its above what it is now, vast tracts of the earth inhospitable to habitation because the temperature is to low, yes some will be lost around the equator, but much more gained, we simply need to manage the transition
SteveS
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2018
vast tracts of the earth inhospitable to habitation because the temperature is to low, yes some will be lost around the equator, but much more gained

I don't think it's as simple as that. For a start whilst temperatures will increase, the average annual solar insolation wouldn't which would be a limiting factor for plant productivity in higher latitudes compared to lower. Also, in higher latitudes the larger seasonal differences in day/night lengths would exacerbate frost/drought impacts on crop yields. So even if you're right about the amounts of productive land lost or gained, which is debatable, the actual productivity of any land gained would be lower than that lost.

https://en.wikipe...tion.png

cont.
SteveS
4.6 / 5 (9) Dec 09, 2018
we simply need to manage the transition

Even if this were possible, which I don't believe it is, I think we may run into a few geopolitical problems, whilst northern Europeans, Canadians, Russians, and Argentinians may see it as a good idea the rest of the world may feel a little aggrieved. Do you think that counties would be willing to open their borders to allow people to leave areas that have become less habitable, or that people facing starvation would be happy with your definition of a "sweet spot"?
antigoracle
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 09, 2018
The sweet spot is far behind us. It's gonna get really bad.

Da Snot, the meat eating jackass, brays again. SWEEET

https://fusion4fr...manmade/
ted ted
1.7 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2018
well, i don't know how much explanation i could fit into the comments box, so i left it we 'need to manage the transition'

but thanks for the thoughtful responses, its important to raise and consider this issue, as well as others, because at the moment the climate cult is stifling all serious debate
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2018
snoosebaum
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 09, 2018
https://en.wikipe...mit_Camp

In May 2018, Summitt was only 0.8° C away from recording the lowest temperature ever recorded during May in the Northern Hempishpere, at −49 °C (−56 °F).[8]

hmmm,, pretty hard to melt things @ -49

like schieboo says its gonna be + 50 degrees ! to melt greenland .
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2018
SteveS
4.3 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2018
its important to raise and consider this issue


I agree, it is important to raise and consider this issue.

so what is the temperature sweet spot, or, however unbelievable, is it now?


Considering the physical and geopolitical issues involved in any significant climate change (warming or cooling) I find I must agree with Da Schneib, the sweet spot has past. Any changes will have very serious consequences, so the best thing to do is to understand the causes of climate change and then do everything practical to limit them or prepare for the aftermath.

ted ted
1 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2018
There are huge geopolitical considerations in 'doing everything practical to limit them'

which even then may not be enough, and has led to what we are seeing today in France, and let's face it we haven't even scratched the surface of what could happen if we carry on with the current policies

So from a common sense point of view it seems to me we need a plan B now, and being so dismissive gets us nowhere
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (9) Dec 09, 2018
Actually I'm willing to have a reasonable discussion about it but not when I see stuff like "climate cult," particularly in the comments on an article that clearly shows that there is a problem and it's getting worse at an increasing rate. See, I like to stick to the evidence, not politically motivated hyperbole.
RealityCheck
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2018
@ted ted.
...the climate cult is stifling all serious debate
May I ask what/who is this "climate cult" that you allude to and blame for whatever you are blaming them for, mate? If you allude to the climate scientists reporting their scientific findings and extrapolations/predictions based on same, then it's like me calling the Bushfire Scientists/Services a "bushfire cult" for reporting that the Bushfire Season has been extending temporally (coming earlier and finishing later than previously), geographically (affecting larger and larger land surface than before) and in extremity (burning hotter and more furiously etc). Do you see how your attitude/characterization seems biased/illogical mischaracterization, @ted ted? You would do better blaming the AGW Denier/Fossil/GOP etc lobbyists and (mostly Russian) troll-factories-for-hire, for THEIR "AGW-Denier cult" propaganda/sabotage which has politicized/derailed the debate for decades, and costing us ALL valuable time. :)
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (9) Dec 09, 2018
See, here's the thing: scientists get famous by proving each other wrong. So when you blather about a ginormous cunspiracy of the sisenstis, it's ludicrous.
StudentofSpiritualTeaching
1 / 5 (2) Dec 09, 2018
You buy in to the statistical tricks of lobbyists and naivety of mass media. Watch out. While the population INCREASE percentage has come down very slowly (no guarantee whatsoever that this is a one-way street, look at the recent hunger statistics), and in a very unbalanced way, the absolute numbers per year are since decades at a level of +100,000,000. Show me the lobbyist and scientist or national/UN statistician who will bet with you about increase percentages reaching zero during this century? A few years ago they used to say the peak would be 2050, this forecast has already been fixed to 2100. As the situation will get graver and graver in the coming decades (poverty, depletion of nature, water, extreme weather etc., 100s of millions of refugees and migrants on the move), there will be no orderly school system for educating the next generations in the South. Religions continue for obvious reasons with their part of education to ensure that the membership level keeps growing.
SteveS
5 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2018
There are huge geopolitical considerations in 'doing everything practical to limit them'


Which are nothing compared to the consequences of inaction.

which even then may not be enough, and has led to what we are seeing today in France, and let's face it we haven't even scratched the surface of what could happen if we carry on with the current policies


The key to this problem is education, but that effort is being compromised by people undermining trust in those who try to explain. The phrase "climate cult" is a part of the problem, not the solution.

So from a common sense point of view it seems to me we need a plan B now, and being so dismissive gets us nowhere


Don't be so quick in giving up on plan A, being so dismissive gets us nowhere.
antigoracle
1 / 5 (5) Dec 09, 2018
The sweet spot is far behind us. It's gonna get really bad.

Da Snot, the meat eating, jackass brays again.
Yep, the "sweet spot" is far behind him. It's that spot in his rectum, which only his boyfriend can find.
LMAO.
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (5) Dec 09, 2018
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (5) Dec 09, 2018
Booga booga booga, butbutbutttheresnoglobalwarming, it's all a plot by teh algore and teh evul siensetis who are all getting teh rich from it!

The IQ on this thread just went down by about fifty points in the last hour.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2018
@snooze
warm enough yet ?

https://www.cbsne...8-12-08/
Predicted by Francis, Vavrus

validated by Wu et al.
AND by Honda et al.
AND supported by evidence from Wang and Ikeda as well as Rigor et al.

see also: 23rd IAHR International Symposium on Ice

also note: cbs isn't science

learn to science: https://ocw.mit.e...=physics
greenonions1
5 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2018
goracle
It's that spot in his rectum, which only his boyfriend can find
Over and over - you hope we can have adult conversations about science - and other issues of import - but the bigots can't keep their hands off the keyboards - and have to turn everything into racist, or sexist, or homophobic bigotry. Nice going goracle….
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2018
Thanks, @greenos, but it ain't bigotry against me. Schoolchildren get upset over being called gay; me, I think it's funny. And indicative of the intelligence of the accuser: low.
greenonions1
5 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2018
Snoose
warm enough yet ?


Wow - there was a snow storm in Texas - so the debate is over - there is no warming. The reasoning of a child (or Senator Inhofe) - that has been deconstructed so often - but the deniers can't even learn that lesson. Weather is not climate - oh shit give it up....
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2018
And it snows in Antarctica. Gee, guess there's no global warming! /s
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2018
Anytime you try to start a serious conversation with these people this is where you wind up. Now, who exactly is the cult? I just watched two denial cultists drive someone off who perhaps might have engaged in a rational discussion.

And the best these fools can do is call me "gay."

Are we done here?
unrealone1
1 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2018
It was hotter 8,000 years ago and hotter 110,000 years ago, Duh!
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2018
There weren't seven billion going on eight billion people 8000 years ago, and 110000 years ago there weren't any people.

Duh ummm.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2018
Oh and BTW the Eemian ended and the Wurm glaciation started about 120,000 years ago. So you're off by 10000 years. And those were due to Milankovic cycles, not CO2-driven warming. And the next glaciation is expected in 50000 years.
antigoracle
1 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2018
Anytime HAWW..HAWW...HEE..HEE... rational discussion.

And the best these fools can do is call me "gay."

Are we done here?

The Da Snot jackass brays again.
Aww...the jackass is angwee...guess the boyfriend missed his "sweet spot".
LMAO.
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2018
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2018
@snooze

I see you're still unable to read... thanks for demonstrating this
warmer still
https://www.armst...n-china/
1- http://readingbear.org/

2- Weather isn't climate

3- global average isn't local average

4- see above post to you because it has relevant data that you're ignoring

5- http://www.woodfo...gl/trend

Da Schneib
5 / 5 (2) Dec 10, 2018
I see no point in engaging with either three-year-olds who shout "ur teh geigh" or twelve-year-olds who don't understand that "global warming" isn't monotonic. One might as well argue with a fly. Just slap it out of the air and move on.
antigoracle
1 / 5 (2) Dec 10, 2018
I see no point in engaging with either three-year-olds who shout "ur teh geigh" or twelve-year-olds who don't understand that "global warming" isn't monotonic. One might as well argue with a fly. Just slap it out of the air and move on.

The Da Snob jackass braying again.
It's still angry that his boyfriend haven't hit the "sweet spot" in his rectum.
Explains why he boasted about "eating" meat and that he'll never quit.
LMAO.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (2) Dec 10, 2018
This one doesn't understand anything but insults. It's not smart enough to engage in reasoned debate. All it's got is "teh algore" and "ur teh geigh." Why would anyone engage with it other than to point out how stupid it is?
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (2) Dec 10, 2018
http://www.woodfo...gl/trend

and u still have to prove cause and effect re co2 . not as easy as u think ie; the models are not derived from the laws of physics ie; there is no math that will predict temp/ co2
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2018
Cause and effect are proven by the physics of CO2 absorption and emission. This is obvious physics, not even controversial, @snooze. Well measured, well established, and beyond question.
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (2) Dec 10, 2018
''Cause and effect are proven by the physics of CO2 absorption and emission ''

yes but things may be more complex given the unknowns
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2018
Bwahahaha, right, you get proven wrong so you change the subject.

This is simple, straightforward, easy and obvious physics. It's called "conservation of energy." If the photons don't leave then neither does the heat.
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (1) Dec 10, 2018
so it must be easy to make a predictive model
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (1) Dec 10, 2018
Yep, they did it in 1989. Nothing since has disproved it. And the source code is available for download, if you've got enough computer to run it:

https://www.giss..../modelE/

You have to know FORTRAN though.
StudentofSpiritualTeaching
5 / 5 (1) Dec 10, 2018
Sorry for my posting, being on the surface totally off-topic. The phys.org site software had a hiccup and had put my comment under the wrong thread. But hey, giving me 1 golden star for that is still a bit odd, considering that the statements are sadly nevertheless true ;-) And when looking closer at things, you must admit that the neglected overpopulation problem is at the bottom of all misery unfolding this century, including accelerating unnatural climate change.
howhot3
5 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2018
Don't worry @Studentof ... Just like climate change, overpopulation is certainly a concern and just like climate change it will be pushed to the bottom of conservative/totalitarian government policy/priority list (or to whoever pays the most money to Republicans).
antigoracle
1 / 5 (1) Dec 10, 2018
Cause and effect are proven by the physics of CO2 absorption and emission. This is obvious physics, not even controversial, @snooze. Well measured, well established, and beyond question.

The Da Snob jackass brays.
And, again pulls more shite out of his arse, just as he did with his "sweet spot" comment, and is now angry that his boyfriend can no longer find it.
Tell us jackass, if human CO2 is causing warming. Then, why does the temperature, in the hottest places; ie. DESERTS, plummet towards freezing at night?
snoosebaum
not rated yet Dec 10, 2018
@ da schieb from

https://judithcur...3N4d9S-A

''The question whether the 20th century warming should be considered a target of model development or an emergent property is polarizing the climate modeling community, with 35 percent of modelers stating that 20th century warming was rated very important to decisive, whereas 30 percent would not consider it at all during development. Some view the temperature record as an independent evaluation data set not to be used, while others view it as a valuable observational constraint on the model development. ''

!! so they 'decide' rather than calculate
antigoracle
1 / 5 (1) 9 hours ago
NO RESPONSE FROM Da Snot to my question.
I guess he's too busy with his boyfriend trying to find that "sweet spot" in his rectum.
LMAO
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (1) 8 hours ago
@snooze, but some of them decide one way and some decide the other. Maybe you forgot.
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (1) 7 hours ago

''some of them decide one way and some decide the other''

they decide eh ? i thought the word was ''calculate ''

HAHA
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (1) 4 hours ago
Looks like @snooze didn't get the point of its own quote.

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