Muons spin tales of undiscovered particles

April 20, 2018 by Savannah Mitchem, Argonne National Laboratory
Scientists from Argonne National Laboratory and Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, along with collaborators from over 25 other institutions, are recreating a previous experiment with much higher precision. The original experiment measured the spin precession of the muon — i.e., the speed at which its spin changes direction — to be different from the theoretical predictions. With this one, scientists plan to confirm or disprove the earlier results. Credit: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory / Reidar Hahn

Scientists at U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) national laboratories are collaborating to test a magnetic property of the muon. Their experiment could point to the existence of physics beyond our current understanding, including undiscovered particles.

The experiment follows one that began in 1999 at the DOE's Brookhaven National Laboratory in which measured the of the muon—i.e., the speed at which its spin changes direction—to be different from the theoretical predictions. Scientists from Argonne National Laboratory and Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory, along with collaborators from more than 25 other institutions, are recreating the experiment with much higher precision to confirm or disprove the former earlier results.

The muon is like the (very) big brother of the electron; they have the same charge, but the muon is over 200 times more massive. The two also share the same spin, a quantum mechanical property that determines a particle's behavior in the presence of a .

Particles with spin act like tiny magnets, and when placed in a magnetic field, their spins change direction in a circular motion, much like a spinning gyroscope. The speed of a particle's spin precession is determined by a quantity known as its g-factor, which depends on the particle's spin and the strength of the magnetic field in which it moves.

In modern quantum mechanical theories, the vacuum is not empty. It is full of bubbles of so-called virtual particles, appearing and disappearing very quickly. Interactions between these virtual particles and a real particle, like the muon, can change how the real particle interacts with the magnetic field, affecting its g-factor. Theoretical physicists have calculated, based on our current understanding of the fundamental structure of nature, all the ways that each known particle affects the muon's g-factor, but the measurements that Brookhaven scientists took differed from what they expected by a few parts per million. This difference, if it persists in the new experiment, would point to completely new physics—an exciting discovery for particle physicists.

"If there is actually a discrepancy between the predicted and measured values, it is further proof that the Standard Model, our current understanding of the contents of the universe, is incomplete," said Argonne physicist Peter Winter. "The unexpected effect could be due to an undiscovered particle."

In the new experiment, sited at Fermilab, a beam will travel in a circle through a large, hollow ring due to the presence of a . The same magnetic field will also lead to the precession of the spins while they circle around the ring. The scientists can calculate the g-factor by detecting the spin precession of the muons and knowing the in the ring.

To achieve the desired precision, both the spin precession frequency and the strength of the magnetic field have to be measured with uncertainties below 70 parts per billion. The research group at Argonne has taken responsibility for measuring the magnetic field to such high precision. "The game of our experiment is to control any systematic uncertainty that could distort our precise measurements," said Winter.

This level of precision requires very sensitive probing devices that the scientists calibrated using highly stable and isolated fields produced by recycled magnetic resonance imaging machines at Argonne.

Once they calibrated the probes, the scientists placed 17 of them on a circular trolley that moves about the ring at Fermilab. The trolley measures the field at around 10,000 points, creating a map of the field strength everywhere in the ring. The trolley rests on two rails running along the sides of the tube, and the scientists move the trolley around the ring using two cables attached to motorized spools.

"This trolley has to move in a vacuum," said Ran Hong, an Argonne postdoctoral appointee on the study, "so to both control its motion and receive the data from the probes is very challenging."

To disturb the field as little as possible, only a single insulated signal cable connects the trolley to the outside world. This cable sends information to the trolley to guide it around the loop, and it sends the data from the probes back to the control room.

The older system used at Brookhaven for that laboratory's experiment sent the information using an analog signal, but Argonne scientists and engineers have digitized the signal to increase the amount of data obtained. "The access to more raw data allows for better analysis, and it has led to a 10-fold increase in precision," said Winter.

Because of the larger digital data set, the cable can only send information in one direction at a time. "We have to flip-flop between sending the trolley instructions and receiving the data," said Hong. "Around every 20 milliseconds, the direction switches."

The scientists have been setting up the Muon g-2 experiment for six years. This year, they will begin to take official data. The experiment will run for months, measuring the spin precession of approximately a trillion muons. Every two to three days, the experiment will pause to allow the trolley to measure the field, and smaller probes on the outside of the vacuum chamber will estimate the at all times while the experiment runs.

"Unlike large-scale experiments that attempt to detect unknown particles directly, our approach is to search for indirect effects that change something at a very small scale," said Winter. "By very precisely measuring this factor, we can infer whether or not there is something new."

If the new data confirm the previous measurement, the scientists plan to conduct the experiment with even higher precision. Analysis of these new data could give a flavor of the nature of the new physics, and could indicate what detector would have to be constructed to observe the potential new directly.

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JamesG
1.4 / 5 (10) Apr 20, 2018
Look at those guys playing with their $2 Billion toy we bought them.
antialias_physorg
4.6 / 5 (10) Apr 20, 2018
Look at those guys playing with their $2 Billion toy we bought them.

Well, yeah...look at them actually getting humanity ahead, while you - with your 1000 dollar computer - are ...erm...just wasting time and energy and oxygen?
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (7) Apr 20, 2018
This is actually a pretty good article, not just for coverage of the paper at hand but also for explaining why measuring spin precession and inferring g-factor allows measurement of the effects of vacuum energy, and thus of whether the Standard Model actually has all possible particles in it or not.

Note that this is neither the only g-factor measurement experiment in progress, nor even the only one involving muons. Muons are quite useful, actually; they're comparatively long-lived. Part of the reason we have to do so much data analysis with the LHC is because the particles produced in the proton collisions are so short-lived. New results will be coming from the first couple of LHC runs for years yet to come.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (8) Apr 20, 2018
Look at those guys playing with their $2 Billion toy we bought them.

Well, yeah...look at them actually getting humanity ahead, while you - with your 1000 dollar computer - are ...erm...just wasting time and energy and oxygen?
Is anyone else uncomfortable with people whining about an additional quarter of a cent per year on their income taxes because they're envious? Maybe envy isn't the best basis for good public policy. Just sayin'.
Mark Thomas
4.5 / 5 (8) Apr 20, 2018
no particle revealed in collider has been ever used practical purposes


When you wrote that did you have that nagging feeling that someday that statement would be thought as shortsighted as saying "man will never fly" or some such thing?

I suspect you are literally wrong, but even if you aren't, we don't know where the breakthroughs will happen so we have to pursue all the real science we can access.

Mark's Law: Whatever branch of science you give up on contains the answers you need.

If we gave up on particle physics, you can bet the answers we need are there. By the way, the same goes for space exploration. My gut tells me warp drive will be achieved through a mastery of sub-atomic physics, but who knows?
antialias_physorg
4.8 / 5 (6) Apr 20, 2018
Is anyone else uncomfortable with people whining about an additional quarter of a cent per year on their income taxes because they're envious?

I actually wouldn't mind if they would complain proportionally about the billions pumped into military spending. But then we'd be inundated with anti-military-spending mails on the internet to the point where we'd need a dedicated filter.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (6) Apr 20, 2018
no particle revealed in collider has been ever used practical purposes
Compton's discovery of the electron in an accelerator seems to have been put to the purpose of you typing inane comments on the Internets. Just sayin'.

Then there's neutron scattering, which has been used to invent new explosives and scan luggage.

I suspect you are literally wrong
I agree; in fact I more than suspect it having provided data.

Mark's Law: Whatever branch of science you give up on contains the answers you need.
Ha! Nothing like a little Murphy's Law corollary to put the fear o' God in the heathen.
Da Schneib
4 / 5 (4) Apr 20, 2018
Is anyone else uncomfortable with people whining about an additional quarter of a cent per year on their income taxes because they're envious?
I actually wouldn't mind if they would complain proportionally about the billions pumped into military spending. But then we'd be inundated with anti-military-spending mails on the internet to the point where we'd need a dedicated filter.
That horse left the burning barn about two generations ago. Not to mix similes or anything. ;)
granville583762
3.6 / 5 (5) Apr 20, 2018
Military spending gave us nuclear power

Being military they made a bomb out of it, it was a race against Germany to make it first, it was never going to dropped on Germany, if the silly Japenese had not joined Germanies war, it was dropped on Japan for their refusal to stop fighting over a war which Germany started and had lost before the bomb was constructed - the nuclear bomb saved millions of lives and it took 2 bombs to get through Japeneses thick skulls that the fighting had to stop.
Is anyone else uncomfortable with people whining about an additional quarter of a cent per year on their income taxes because they're envious?

antialias_physorg> I actually wouldn't mind if they would complain proportionally about the billions pumped into military spending. But then we'd be inundated with anti-military-spending mails on the internet to the point where we'd need a dedicated filter.

Mark Thomas
4.3 / 5 (6) Apr 20, 2018
it was never going to dropped on Germany


If the bombs had been completed a year or two earlier they very well may have been dropped on Germany. The Germans surrendered in May 1945 and the successful test at Trinity site in New Mexico happened in July 1945, about two months later.
granville583762
4 / 5 (4) Apr 20, 2018
It was never going to dropped on Germany

Hitler would have run to his bunker as he did any way and the germans would have surrended as they did any way without any bomb being dropped, they had lost years before the bomb was completed,the germans new the implication of the bomb. They were not suicidal like the japenese were.
it was never going to dropped on Germany


If the bombs had been completed a year or two earlier they very well may have been dropped on Germany. The Germans surrendered in May 1945 and the successful test at Trinity site in New Mexico happened in July 1945, about two months later.

someone11235813
5 / 5 (2) Apr 21, 2018
Ever since Rabii opined 'who ordered that!', muons have always had the X factor.
tallenglish
1 / 5 (3) Apr 21, 2018
I still think the vacuum energy is actually just dark matter, which is just ordinary matter flowing backwards in time relative to us (effects seen as gravity waves). What we think of as antimatter, and its obvious dark matter equivilent would be the imaginary time equivilents.

Thinking you can pull particles out of nothing is just plain wrong, changing particles from negative to positive flow in time, or imaginary to real just makes a lot more sense. Energy can neither be created or destroyed - and saying its a vacuum implies no energy is in it.
humy
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 21, 2018
Oh come on - no particle revealed in collider has been ever used practical purposes, .

I agree that it is very unlikely it would ever be, even very indirectly, used for practical uses. And i am never persuaded by the common argument that it 'might' lead to practical use; its still unlikely.
But much of science isn't done for practical uses but rather for satisfying our curiosity and there isn't necessarily wrong with merely satisfying curiosity.

However, and despite me being personally very curious to know what such research will discover, I just cannot help wonder if the money and resources spent on such expensive science research like this one that have little hope of practical use could be better used as extra funding for the kind of science research that has obvious hope of practical use, such as designing better solar cells for solar panels, or fundamental research into human biochemistry that may indirectly lead to cures for horrible diseases etc.
humy
4.2 / 5 (5) Apr 21, 2018
This article speaks of muons that have a mass about 207 times that of the electron.
It might come as a surprise to some of you that your body is constantly and directly being bombarded with hundreds of these muons per second even if you are quite deep in a mine. They come from and generated by collisions of cosmic rays with the upper Earth's atmosphere.

If you want to know more about muons, start here;

https://en.wikipe...iki/Muon
Mimath224
5 / 5 (5) Apr 21, 2018
But much of science isn't done for practical uses but rather for satisfying our curiosity and there isn't necessarily wrong with merely satisfying curiosity
The primary reason of science is to advance progress in human civilization. This is also the primary reason why tax payers are financing it...
BTW We should realize, you're all laymen off-topic twaddlers...if you cannot keep its rules even in this tiny forum.

Now you've got me on a layman's rant. There are probably more us 'twaddlers' in the WORLD community paying taxes than any other section of society and as one of them I would rather see our taxes go to this type of research than finding new ways to destroy each other. Look at the new F-35B jet 70-80+ million dollars apiece!!!???
For me this article is rather fascinating. You scientist guys in the field don't realise...not only delving into the quantum realm but actually analysing the gyro-magnetic precession of a particle. Gets my vote any day.
humy
3.9 / 5 (9) Apr 21, 2018
I would rather see our taxes go to this type of research than finding new ways to destroy each other.

Same here. I say anything is better than spending money on finding more efficient ways to murder each other.
Often a new weapon ends up in the hands of a tyrant.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (4) Apr 21, 2018
I would rather see our taxes go to this type of research than finding new ways to destroy each other.

Same here. I say anything is better than spending money on finding more efficient ways to murder each other.
Often a new weapon ends up in the hands of a tyrant.

And then there's the added annoyance that someone else will come out with a better missile and blow that 80 M dollar F-35 out of the sky.
BNL have done great research in the past so I hope they continue to get funds for further advances.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (1) Apr 21, 2018
Oh come on - no particle revealed in collider has been ever used practical purposes, computer technology the more... :-)
muon catalyzed fusion is currently impractical because it takes more energy to make muons than the fusion reaction produces.
https://en.wikipe...d_fusion

-But the discovery of a catalyst that could make muons would revolutionize energy production.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 21, 2018
Same here. I say anything is better than spending money on finding more efficient ways to murder each other
Gosh I really wish I got the same kind of thrill from these nonsense feelgood phrases as you guys do.

But all I get is queasy at the ignorance and time wasted.
Da Schneib
4.8 / 5 (5) Apr 21, 2018
@humy, not sure it's right to talk about "expensive" when you compare even major physics experiments and colliders with military spending. Canceling funding for a major physics research project in order to get job training for 500 people when you could cancel a major defense project and get funding for job training for a million people seems kinda out of balance to me. Just sayin'.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (4) Apr 21, 2018
@humy, not sure it's right to talk about "expensive" when you compare even major physics experiments and colliders with military spending. Canceling funding for a major physics research project in order to get job training for 500 people when you could cancel a major defense project and get funding for job training for a million people seems kinda out of balance to me. Just sayin'.

I was really thinking in world terms and how great it would if all military personnel were employed in furthering our understanding. Yes I know, it won't happen but just hope we don't all disappear in a gigantic puff of smoke and all efforts wasted, Ha!
humy
4.3 / 5 (6) Apr 22, 2018
Same here. I say anything is better than spending money on finding more efficient ways to murder each other
Gosh I really wish I got the same kind of thrill from these nonsense feelgood phrases as you guys do.

We don't get a 'thrill' from expressing companion and empathy and not wishing more war. That's not why we do it.

someone11235813
5 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2018
...
It might come as a surprise to some of you that your body is constantly and directly being bombarded with hundreds of these muons per second even if you are quite deep in a mine.


Not only that but billions of trillions of neutrinos rain down on you from the Sun 24/7, the only difference is that at night they come up through your bed.
Da Schneib
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 22, 2018
Actually muons are a bit more worrying than neutrinos, since they're charged and are therefore ionizing radiation. But not much; the rate is 1 muon per minute per square centimeter at sea level, and they generally come pretty close to straight down. And it's been happening to you all your life. So don't hyperventilate.
antialias_physorg
4.2 / 5 (5) Apr 22, 2018
Here's a site that calculates how close would you have to be to a supernova to get a lethal dose of neutrino radiation? (think about that for a second)

https://what-if.xkcd.com/73/

Just gotta love xkcd.
humy
4.3 / 5 (6) Apr 22, 2018
Here's a site that calculates how close would you have to be to a supernova to get a lethal dose of neutrino radiation? (think about that for a second)
.

Err, if you were that close to a supernova, I think neutrino radiation would be the least of your problems.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Apr 22, 2018
We don't get a 'thrill' from expressing companion and empathy and not wishing more war. That's not why we do it
Well since it totally ignores the inevitable existence of enemies who want to destroy your way of life and take what you have, including your life, it's got to be something like a drug doesnt it?

Ie something to make you feel better. Easier to pretend your fantasies are reality. Easier to live with the shame of knowing that others are risking their lives protecting you rather than you doing it yourself.

THAT'S why you do it.
humy
4 / 5 (4) Apr 22, 2018
We don't get a 'thrill' from expressing companion and empathy and not wishing more war. That's not why we do it
Well since it totally ignores the inevitable existence of enemies who want to destroy your way of life

No, it doesn't ignore that. We don't need billions spent on yet more new kinds of weapons to destroy them when we have already got more than enough for the job including atom bombs. For example, why do we need to spend billions on yet another even more advanced kind of atom bomb? It is you who lives in a fantasy to think we need even more.
Also, exactly who is enemy of mine that threatens to kill me? The Russian? Wake up! The cold war paranoia ended a long time ago.
I don't say we don't need weapons; we unfortunately need them. I say we don't need to spend billions making even more advanced ones.
humy
3.7 / 5 (3) Apr 22, 2018
I say we don't need to spend billions making even more advanced ones.

misedit; "making" above should be "inventing". We can continue to make more of the ones already invented.

+ I think I should mention I personally think there should be a world wide ban on inventing and developing new kinds of weapons 9but not a ban on making those already invented else too difficult to police that I think); this would help divert funding to much more productive causes.
DarkHorse66
3 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2018
@humy. I do so agree with your sentiment, but haven't you heard....thanks to the combined posturing of Putin and Trump (not to mention ruling...ah, governing by tweet) that Cold War is back on....
Putin did announce that he now had some kind of smart bomb, and Trump wants to build more bombs too...

Cheers, DH66
TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Apr 22, 2018
We don't need billions spent on yet more new kinds of weapons to destroy them when we have already got more than enough for the job including atom bombs
-According to YOU.

According to YOU, I should trust my safety and security to someone who just DECIDES we have too many evil weapons, rather than to those whose job it is to keep me safe.
I say we don't need to spend billions making even more advanced ones
-And I say you have no idea what youre talking about, and dont care whether you do or not.

Ie youre full of shit.

For instance
I personally think there should be a world wide ban on inventing and developing new kinds of weapons
-And tell me, how would you enforce such a ban? With weapons? What kind of weapons? Would they be state of the art, capable of countering for instance the next gen of hypersonic antiship missiles or supersonic cavitation torpedos?

Both of which can be developed by north korea and can carry nukes.
TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Apr 22, 2018
he now had some kind of smart bomb
So knowledgeable, its breathtaking.

You sure youre worth an opinion? You sure your opinions arent worthless?
milnik
not rated yet Apr 22, 2018
Why are you discussing in such a way that they do not know anything about what is happening and how it arises. Scientists in laboratories and particle collisions behave like children who make bubbles of soap and children are not interested in how and from which balloons were created, but only interested in sensing them in the surrounding area. Thus, scientists do not even know how and from what are the muons, which are 200 times more massive than electrons, are not able to see how this "fat" rotates. It's the same as when you are looking at an ordinary fish of one kilogram and 200 kilograms of tuna, but you are not able to find out how this tuna is moving? What is this about? The only intention is to get interested people getting more and more and from such fools can always take money for stupid prices and "finds".
humy
5 / 5 (1) Apr 22, 2018
We don't need billions spent on yet more new kinds of weapons to destroy them when we have already got more than enough for the job including atom bombs
-According to YOU.

You mean you think we need something even more powerful than the atom bombs we already got to kill our enemies?
humy
5 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2018
...Scientists in laboratories and particle collisions behave like children..

what the hell have you got against scientists? Did one piss on your grandmother's grave or, what, exactly?
If it wasn't for these "scientists in laboratories", you probably wouldn't have a computer to post here your insults to them and you might even be dead because of lack of modern medical advances.
humy
5 / 5 (1) Apr 22, 2018
@humy.
...
Putin did announce that he now had some kind of smart bomb, and Trump wants to build more bombs too...


Point taken. But do you think we should respond to that by inventing a new kind of smart bomb of our own so that we can then retaliate to that in kind? I'm not sure.
TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Apr 22, 2018
You mean you think we need something even more powerful than the atom bombs we already got to kill our enemies?
So you want to use 'atom bombs' against hypersonic missiles and supersonic torpedos? Hint: they wont work. Iran will have sunk your fleet and you will have no way of sestroying their reactor facilities.

You have no idea what youre talking about.

The world community has already forbidden north korea from developing nukes. They now have perhaps 60 of them. And they have ICBMs capable of hitting your little fleet in the pacific.

I suppose we could just nuke them like you suggest but that would be too late to save pearl and san diego. And the few dozen theyve sold to NGOs and hobbyists are now sitting in containers in your harbors.

Why dont you just make all THAT illegal with a big FAT new UN law, signed by everybody and carved in stone in downtown manhattan for everybody to see???
cont>
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (1) Apr 22, 2018
The allies and hitler signed such a law forbidding nazis from invading poland. A few weeks later germany and the USSR carved it up like a potato pancake.

Which is why we needed NATO in europe, or else the soviets wouldve taken the whole continent.

I bet theres even a law forbidding them from doing this. Which do you think actually worked? The law, or the tanks and the planes and the nukes?
humy
5 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2018
we needed NATO in europe, or else the soviets wouldve taken the whole continent.

I think that is probably correct. So what? Nobody here is suggesting the contrary.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (1) Apr 22, 2018
But do you think we should respond to that by inventing a new kind of smart bomb of our own so that we can then retaliate to that in kind? I'm not sure
Of course youre not. What he is calling a 'smart bomb' is actually

"...an anti-ship missile capable of speeds in excess of 4,000 miles per hour, or about six times the speed of sound. That is as fast as the U.S. Navy's prototype railgun projectile – but the new Zircon missile can travel more than twice as far..."

-and the only defense we have against it will be ship-mounted lasers, now in development.

But you would just nuke moscow so what the heck.
I think that is probably correct. So what? Nobody here is suggesting the contrary
You would have passed laws preventing them from developing new tanks, missiles, and bombs to improve their chances, rather than us upgrading in kind.

They would have broken the law, as they did so many times, and without our own upgrades we would have had no deterrant.
humy
5 / 5 (1) Apr 22, 2018

"...an anti-ship missile capable of speeds in excess of 4,000 miles per hour, or about six times the speed of sound. That is as fast as the U.S. Navy's prototype railgun projectile – but the new Zircon missile can travel more than twice as far..."

-and the only defense we have against it will be ship-mounted lasers, now in development.
.

How would inventing a totally new fast missile of our own stop them firing theirs onto our ships?
humy
5 / 5 (1) Apr 22, 2018
You would have passed laws preventing them from developing new tanks, missiles, and bombs to improve their chances,

No I wouldn't. That is because back then there was danger of being invaded and this thing called the cold war. The cold war is over now. And I propose the laws preventing the invention of new deadly weapons should be made world wide (a proposal that will go on deaf ears no doubt)
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (1) Apr 22, 2018
How would inventing a totally new fast missile of our own stop them firing theirs onto our ships?
We need to be able to sink the ships before they can fire those missiles.
The cold war is over now. And I propose the laws preventing the invention of new deadly weapons should be made world wide (a proposal that will go on deaf ears no doubt)
So now that THAT war is over, there are no more wars. Nobody ELSE is developing these weapons and never will, and if they do we will just invent them and learn how to use them on the spot.

But they won't because we passed a nice shiny new LAW forbidding it and we know they'll comply. Because we know enemies can always be counted on to do what we tell them to do etcetcetc.

The only way you can reach your conclusions is if you force yourself not to think about them. Or you're insane, either/or.
Da Schneib
5 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2018
@humy, it's a great idea but how do you enforce it?

Eventually some religious nutjob gets hold of the super virus and we're done. How do you stop hir? (Sorry ladies, you're just as capable of being nutjobs as men. If no women supported abortion restrictions, do you think they'd pass? Get over it.)
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2018
Poland was also quite fond of dismantling Czechoslovakia
Czechoslovakia was a fake country constructed by Woodrow Wilson as the trigger point for restarting the world war once everyone was comfortable with the progress of air power and mechanized armor.

It contained Czechs, Slavs, and germans, none of whom got along. Conflict among these groups could be reliably counted on as an excuse to begin fighting over land, and that's exactly what happened.
it makes us blind to the true reasons of wars
Other blatently purpose-built countries were those that divided up nationalist entities such as the Kurds in the middle east; and Belgium, which ensconced a king with the intent of exploiting the Congo region for war materials, notably rubber for the tires on war vehicles.

The nature of these countries does enlighten us as to the true reasons for war. They happen because they are planned to happen.

War is inevitable. Therefore, letting it happen by itself is a great sin.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (2) Apr 22, 2018
Well that was a neat twist. Seems I mentioned a world without war but more scientific research the thread turns from Muons to 'war being inevitable'. Any one care to calculate the number of muons produced in the next WW then?
DarkHorse66
not rated yet Apr 23, 2018
@humy. ...Putin did announce that he now had some kind of smart bomb, and Trump wants to build more bombs too..

Point taken. But do you think we should respond to that by inventing a new kind of smart bomb of our own so that we can then retaliate to that in kind? I'm not sure.

No I don't. I was just making the point of reminding that the Cold War was already back on(albeit in a slightly more 'modern' version), after you did say (2 posts before my previous one):
"The cold war paranoia ended a long time ago."
@Otto: I hold a comparable view to you, wrt artificial imposed borders for self-serving manipulative power-political reasons.Germany itself is a prime example, no matter what the reason (hint to others: WWII). At least the subsequent breakup of the separating barrier did happen quite peacefully, thanks to the timeliness of Gorbachev, glasnost &perestroika
https://www.histo...glasnost
Where is it now?PityRegardsDH66
DarkHorse66
5 / 5 (1) Apr 23, 2018
Well that was a neat twist. Seems I mentioned a world without war but more scientific research the thread turns from Muons to 'war being inevitable'. Any one care to calculate the number of muons produced in the next WW then?

Wellll, with all those big, nasty bombs flying about and releasing their radiation while vapourising what they hit? Alot. But if the final destruction is total enough, nobody is going to be left alive, to be able to be worrying about that one! :|
Cheer(s)(y)! Take your pick. DH66
DarkHorse66
not rated yet Apr 23, 2018
Anyway, yes let get back to muons...

Here is a site that some of you might enjoy:
http://kcvs.ca/co...lativity

a bit of fun:
https://www.spsna...detector

Another interesting site:
http://cosmicray....-circuit

Best Regards, DH66
TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Apr 23, 2018
War is indeed avoidable, if we wouldn't ignore the breakthrough findings
Well it is now, finally, after 100s of 1000s of years of chronic overgrowth and subsequent conflict.

The greatest breakthrough finding? RU486 and the potential to limit growth without planned war, famine, and disease.

But in order to enact wholesale ABORTION, the religionist cultures around the world that would have prevented it had to be destroyed. And so we had the first world wars and communist martial law that followed, which destroyed those vile cultures and enabled over ONE BILLION ABORTIONS, mostly in those communist countries.

Not to mention the few 100 million pregnancies preempted through family planning efforts funded by the Rockefeller foundation.

The most informative site on all the internet
http://www.johnst....html#SU

Peace reigns in the West but elsewhere there are still cultures which need to end. We can watch this process enfold.
TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Apr 23, 2018
What - muons? Aren't you glad we are here discussing them rather than scraping for food amongst the radioactive debris?

THAT war was thankfully avoided. Or at least postponed.
Mimath224
5 / 5 (1) Apr 23, 2018
What - muons? Aren't you glad we are here discussing them rather than scraping for food amongst the radioactive debris?

THAT war was thankfully avoided. Or at least postponed.

I think you missed my joke...I was trying to edge from 'war' back to 'muons', Ha!
TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Apr 23, 2018
Otto is very passionate about planned conflict and demographic engineering. Anyway zephyr started it.
Otto: I hold a comparable view to you, wrt artificial imposed borders for self-serving manipulative power-political reasons.Germany itself is a prime example
Yah you bet. Prussia and Bavaria were at war and th gen suddenly they were one country.

The myth of German nationalism was formed by for The and the German philos in the 1800s. The industrial revolution was allowed to happen, and the People who did so knew full well that the result would be the biggest pop growth spurt in history.

So they began dividing the people up once again. Marx wrote his manifesto to lend credence to the coming revolution.
TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Apr 23, 2018
Errata - formed by Goethe and the German philos. And of course Wagner. Industry naturally funnels wealth away from workers and into owners pockets. A philosophy to redistribute it by force was required.

But again, no different than the great Schism or the Reformation. Dividing the people up and setting them against one another at the proper time, in controllable ways, and with predetermined results, is the hallmark of the great hidden Empire we all serve.

A sacred Process described in astonishing detail in the bible and the book of enoch.

"There is a [Proper] time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens... a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build...
a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace." Ecc3

-etc

TheGhostofOtto1923
not rated yet Apr 23, 2018
"Everything is beautiful in its Own Time" ecc3

"9. And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle: for length of days shall they not have." Enoch10

"There was a time when the countless tribes of men, though widespread, oppressed the surface of the deep-blossomed Earth. And Zeus saw this, and he had pity … and in his wise heart resolved to relieve the all-nurturing Earth of men, by causing the great struggle of the Ilion war, that load of death might empty the world. And so the heroes were slain in Troy and the plan of Zeus came to pass." -Scholiast on Homer, Iliad, 1.5
milnik
not rated yet Apr 24, 2018
@humy,
I can think of your level of awareness and knowledge of science, when you post my late grandma !!
This field of science is not tied to informatics or medicine. These are the attempts of scientists to promote their ignorance as something new, gained by looking at something in the deep spaces of the universe, where they do not see or know what is there. They do not know anything about themselves, and behave like you, who, from your ignorance, use non-cultural expressions and value my ancestors. You should be ashamed of it, if you have a fasting and a consciousness.

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