Quantum speed limits are not actually quantum

March 15, 2018 by Lisa Zyga, Phys.org feature
Source: pixabay

Quantum mechanics has fundamental speed limits—upper bounds on the rate at which quantum systems can evolve. However, two groups working independently have published papers showing for the first time that quantum speed limits have a classical counterpart: classical speed limits. The results are surprising, as previous research has suggested that quantum speed limits are purely quantum in nature and vanish for classical systems.

Both groups—one consisting of Brendan Shanahan and Adolfo del Campo at the University of Massachusetts along with Aurelia Chenu and Norman Margolus at MIT, the other composed of Manaka Okuyama of the Tokyo Institute of Technology and Masayuki Ohzeki at Tohoku University—have published papers on classical speed limits in Physical Review Letters.

Over the past several decades, physicists have been investigating , which determine the minimum time for a given process to occur in terms of the energy fluctuations of the process. A quantum speed limit can then be thought as a time-energy uncertainty relation. Although this concept is similar to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, which relates position and momentum uncertainties, time is treated differently in (as a parameter rather than an observable).

Still, the similarities between the two relations, along with the fact that Heisenberg's is a strictly quantum phenomenon, have long suggested that quantum speed limits are likewise strictly quantum and have no classical counterpart. The only known limitation on the speed of is that objects may not travel faster than the speed of light due to special relativity, but this is unrelated to the energy-time relation in quantum speed limits.

The new papers show that speed limits based on a trade-off between energy and time do exist for classical systems, and in fact, that there are infinitely many of these classical speed limits. The results demonstrate that quantum speed limits are not based on any underlying quantum phenomena, but instead are a universal property of the description of any physical process, whether quantum or classical.

"It is really the notion of information and distinguishability that unifies speed limits in both the classical and quantum domains," del Campo told Phys.org.

As quantum speed limits have potential applications for understanding the ultimate limits of quantum computing, the new results may help to determine which scenarios may benefit from a quantum speedup compared to classical methods.

"Quantum speed limits have many applications, ranging from metrology to quantum computation," del Campo said. "It is exciting to imagine the implications of the classical we have derived."

Explore further: Quantum speed limit may put brakes on quantum computers

More information: B. Shanahan, A. Chenu, N. Margolus, and A. del Campo. "Quantum Speed Limits across the Quantum-to-Classical Transition." Physical Review Letters. DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevLett.120.070401. Also at arXiv:1710.07335 [quant-ph]

Manaka Okuyama and Masayuki Ohzeki. "Quantum Speed Limit is Not Quantum." Physical Review Letters. DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevLett.120.070402. Also at arXiv:1710.03498 [quant-ph]

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5 / 5 (3) Mar 16, 2018
Back in 1990 when I took my first course in QM, the professor remarked that there were two commonly cited Heisenberg uncertainty principles. One involved position and momentum, the other one involved energy and time.

He also stated that the energy-time principle could be derived from other physics involving transforms (Laplace's IIRC), but that the position-momentum principle was fundamental and could not be derived from other physics.

These two papers appear to be alternate explanations or derivations of the fact that the energy-time uncertainty principle is not fundamental. They don't appear to address the position-momentum principle directly.
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 16, 2018
The "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle" is highly flawed. It can easily be disproved by making TWO simultaneous measurements. This is the way engineers have solved this problem for many years. I have elaborated on this on my website (science-site.net). When one says that it "cannot be derived from other physics", they are on shaky ground.
3 / 5 (2) Mar 16, 2018
The quantum speed limits applies to speed of information transfer, i.e. the bandwidth - not the actual speed. It has therefore nothing to do with breaking the light speed limit - but it allows to transfer more bits from one place to another, than the photons could manage. Of course there is trick: the quantum mechanical transfer is less or more deterministic, which means we cannot fully trace the path of information and that any observer can be completely sure with his partner in communication (i.e. the source of information) due to many paths character of quantum mechanics. Which indicates, that quantum mechanical information is mediated by longitudinal waves of vaccum (which are subject of Hyughens principle) - not with transverse waves of it. It makes the quantum information as determinist as the mediation of information by sound waves at the water surface. If we would follow the path of information in strictly determinist way, then the light speed limit would still apply.
3 / 5 (2) Mar 16, 2018
The "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle" is highly flawed.
In similar way like the relativity it applies to determinist limit of information, i.e. this one observed by light waves exclusively. This is like to say, that Newton law is deeply flawed, because most of free fall curves don't follow parabolic law. The physical laws are all based on abstraction of reality, in the context of which are valid well - but the same abstraction also implies limited validity scope for them.

Anyway, it may be possible that the way in which human brain operates utilizes the extended uncertainty principle - which may be also the reason, why human brain doesn't operate like strictly classical computer. It merely works like classical simulator of quantum waves, thus utilizing the sweet spot between uncertainty principle limits for purely classical and purely quantum mechanics.
3 / 5 (2) Mar 16, 2018
Note that for effective fastest decisions we aren't required to follow exact path of our logic, as many activities (including the escapement from predators) we are doing reflexively and intuitively. In similar way the intuitive subconscious decisions participate the most in creative thinking, which is essentially the negentropic process, as it violates the standard entropic arrow of time. For brain isn't important to remain aware about the exact way of our thinking: what is important here, we get the correct decision in fastest possible way.
The problem of contemporary physics (and science in general) is, it not only adheres on light speed limits in its theories blindly - but it even enforces the strictly causal way of information propagation during its development: every finding must be reasoned by some strictly determinist i.e. formal theory, before it can be published. As a consequence, the progress of mainstream science got gradually slower during last century than it could be.
3 / 5 (2) Mar 16, 2018
In similar way, like the extended uncertainty principle limits violate the determinism of classical physics it may violate the determinism (time arrow) of thermodynamic laws, which prohibit the concentration of heat energy from environment, for example. Which is just something, which mainstream physics happily ignores for more than one century. Now the mainstream physicists just started to slowly reveal, that the limits imposed by their own theories are overly strict - but I can't still see any sign of awareness or even selfreflection in more practical matters. Apparently you can't learn an old dog new tricks so easily...
4 / 5 (4) Mar 16, 2018
The "Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle" is highly flawed. It can easily be disproved by making TWO simultaneous measurements. This is the way engineers have solved this problem for many years. I have elaborated on this on my website (science-site.net). When one says that it "cannot be derived from other physics", they are on shaky ground.

define "simultaneous" measurements (what time scale is simultaneous in your mind) of a quantum system.... and what two things are you measuring?
5 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2018
Da Schneib
1 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2018
You can do an experiment to prove Heisenberg uncertainty yourself, with relatively inexpensive equipment. The details are here: https://www.quora...mentally

@macurinetherapy is lying again.
not rated yet Mar 18, 2018
Da Schneib
1 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2018
Oh, stop bullshitting, @macurinetherapy.

Your first link is not about the uncertainty principle, but about an early form of it.
Your second link is not about an uncertainty relation; it's about spin and axis angle. That's why the title says "evade."
Your third article is about open timelike curves, a special case of closed timelike curves which violate causality, allowing backward time travel.
These three links don't prove what you claim.

Your last article involves the use of maximally entangled particles to allow measurement of both values, which means that in the presence of entanglement it's possible to measure under the Heisenberg limit, but only once, and only if the entanglement is perfect. While this is true, it still doesn't mean that Heisenberg uncertainty is generally violated; in fact, it gives a new uncertainty relation which extends, but does not deny, Heisenberg uncertainty.
Da Schneib
1 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2018
So that one's bullshit as well.

Now stop lying.

Incidentally, for the last one, which is interesting, though it doesn't show what @macurinetherapy claims, both the articles are out of embargo and are free access. The original article, which has all the theory and the derivation of the new uncertainty relations: http://www.nature...phys1734

The second article, which has actual measurements using and confirming the new relations: http://www.nature...phys2048
not rated yet Mar 18, 2018
High-Power Collective Charging of a Solid-State Quantum Battery Quantum information theorems state that it is possible to exploit collective quantum resources to greatly enhance the charging power of quantum batteries (QBs) made of many identical elementary units.
Da Schneib
3 / 5 (2) Mar 18, 2018
We were talking about Heisenberg uncertainty.

Maybe you forgot.
Spaced out Engineer
1 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2018
Ultimate limits is conditional on your beliefs. Can surreal space possess a duality with time's evolution? Is the reduction of determinism existential due to a surplus of unitary? Or are we finished, but keep throwing it away to keep playing? Do we ultimately lack clarity for the relative entropic, and so the process is reversible? Is information? Does the differentiation of some relational theory save science's need for dichotomies? Should a wholism for an operational account use space-time operators or hermicity? Does a singularity donut make for both axiom and isomorph?
If our computers have geometries where unitary is preserved to make equivalence of cswap and cnot operations, are those the ones we should consider, due to their beauty?
Without an absolute in dimensiality, but knowing the geometric account can commensurate any synatic cross-firing, we proceed. Through abstractions where a finite surface area can have a finite volume.
Spaced out Engineer
1 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2018
It could be as simple as modular forms, but it could also be an exceedingly complex linear formulation, that integrates, in a way, so close to the patterns that we craft into constructs, as we ride the wave.
It seems multiplicity can match entanglement, yet we cannot say if the lack of discernment of the shapeness of drum is some beginning of reintegration into equivalence in the groundlessness. Or a perfect circle of a spin-1 background may just half integer itself, without the need for such aspirations, only to appear to fracture again, in one expression, on the surface of point-like.
There are those which start to end. Those which repeat unendlingly. Those of illusory aggregation of discontinuities. And yet with but one degree of freedom, rotations groups seem to find a similar appearance, with just the right configuration space.
Spaced out Engineer
1 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2018
Where are we, if but in the eye of storm, where the curvatures exchange with energy, is but our own push against positive pressure, whose frictional forces could be imaginary, and so the rock rolls back up, faster,
What we measure of the appearance of divergences caught, was just a struggle, in the center, where there truly was no measure. Just lasting longer.
Lasting longer, where the weak lends, and the bifurcation is as free as the lunch, in a game of pretend.
As less we can buy the singular, as but a projection in another whole integer. With patience and non-doing, we can return to her. Compactified, we could miss and find a history close enough. Yet we may never answer who is and who isn't.
Spaced out Engineer
1 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2018
It from bit. They flop until they flip. Was there a difference? Not if naked in relations, for two degrees leave connected and disconnected, the limits of objective, as undistinguished.
not rated yet Mar 18, 2018
From the article:

"Still, the similarities between the two relations, along with the fact that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a strictly quantum phenomenon, have long suggested that quantum speed limits are likewise strictly quantum and have no classical counterpart."

No, it is well known that the complementarity of frequency and time interval is equally true of classical waves. It's just Fourier analysis, and workers in classical communication theory talk about the uncertainty principle all the time. It's really this classical property that is brought out in these papers.
not rated yet Mar 18, 2018
along with the fact that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a strictly quantum phenomenon
Oh, really? We can demonstrate it with fully classical light wave diffraction experiment (i.e. no photons involved). It's derivation from (also classical) Maxwell equations is here. Heisenberg uncertainty principle is a statement about the light wave nature of reality observed.
Spaced out Engineer
1 / 5 (1) Mar 18, 2018
Through abstractions where a finite surface area can have a infinite volume.

(breaking Cauchy moody, positive pressure and negative pressure near miss, potentially still happening, and with no bigger no small, distance no matter)
No drugs, just Yoga for me today. And sleep deprivation.
Not that my inferences off the Guassian pass Popperia. (falsifiable hypothesises)

Though like toyuniverses, said it seems the relational and statistical theories have proagmatics that are context free. Meaning both Fourier analysis and Bayesian probability are useful in quantum and classical realms.

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