Rossi's E-Cat gets first customers, but questions remain

(PhysOrg.com) -- Italian scientist Andrea Rossi has spent the past year giving demonstrations of a device that he claims can generate large amounts of energy due to a little-understood nuclear process. His latest demonstration, performed on October 28th, has attracted some of the most mainstream media attention yet, with coverage by outlets including Fox News, Forbes, and MSNBC, among others. But the big question still seems to be whether Rossi’s E-Cat (energy catalyzer) device is a huge breakthrough or a huge scam. What’s making the answer so difficult to determine is the lack of a clear, scientific explanation of what exactly is going on.

On October 28th, Rossi invited a few dozen people, including a group of engineers from an unnamed potential US customer, as well as a handful of journalists. For the demonstration, Rossi connected dozens of modules in parallel. Inside of each module, a nuclear reaction between hydrogen nuclei and nickel nuclei occurs, releasing heat that is used to turn water into steam. According to Rossi, each module received an initial input of 400 watts and produced a self-sustaining, continuous output of 10 kilowatts for the next few hours. Altogether, he claims that the device produced an average of 470 kilowatts in the form of steam for more than five hours.

Impressed with these results, the unknown US customer accepted delivery of a commercial E-Cat device. In the days since then - and likely due in part to all the media attention - Rossi has reported on his blog that he has sold “more than two” devices to other customers, which are also unnamed. The devices are being sold through Rossi’s company, Leonardo Corporation, and he says that the customers will reveal their identities when they choose.

While the news of the first customers is exciting, there is still a lot of confusion surrounding the device itself. Rossi continues to face criticism for not carrying out an experiment for a long period of time, not performing tests that would help clarify where the excess heat is coming from, and not publishing the results of any of his tests in a peer-reviewed journal, other than his own (Journal of Nuclear Physics), among other things.

Without knowing further details, it seems that onlookers are having a difficult time knowing what to make of Rossi. There’s not enough information to fully discredit the E-Cat device, nor to fully support it. The AP Technology Writer Peter Svensson was among the spectators at the October 28th demonstration, but so far the AP has not published any coverage of the event. (In response to a query on a possible story via Twitter, Svensson responded, “Stay tuned.”) Meanwhile, other journalists have been criticizing each other’s coverage for being too accepting or too harsh of Rossi’s claims.

One piece of evidence that suggests Rossi sincerely believes in the E-Cat is that he reportedly sold his house two months ago in order to fund the ongoing development. He has been working around the clock on the technology, and says, as he has previously said, that the final word will come from the customers who use the devices to generate electricity, not from his critics.

As for the critics, they only hope the customers know what they're paying for.


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Citation: Rossi's E-Cat gets first customers, but questions remain (2011, November 8) retrieved 20 June 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2011-11-rossi-e-cat-customers.html
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Nov 08, 2011
Lisa,
Some journalists - including yourself - are being careless about how they are reporting this story and in doing so, are inadvertently contributing to this grand scam. The most obvious evidence for the scam is the exit velocity I showed on videotape and Rossi's claim five minutes later that he had just shown me proof of kilowatts of heat. Please read my report #3, there is no ambiguity about this matter unless you suggest that Rossi intended to deceive me.

Correction: The experiment did not take place at the University of Bologna. The first media outlet to report that was Fox News. Perhaps Fox is not the best source?

The experiment took place at a virtually empty commercial suite that Rossi has been using to demonstrate his device since December.

Another example of how some journalists have helped to perpetuate potentially false information is your text "Impressed with these results, the unknown US customer accepted delivery."

There is no evidence for the existence of any cu

Nov 08, 2011
[continued]

There is no evidence for the existence of any customer. But your readers may not know this. They assume that you have based this statement on facts. And that is a disservice to the public and it is poor journalism.

Take care,

Steven B. Krivit
Editor, New Energy Times


Nov 08, 2011
I'm guessing there's a mandatory service contract necessary, a clause in the contract saying that opening the black box up comes with a costly penalty and possibly threats that it's a violation of laws (e.g, just insert a radioactive source inside), and that during such visits a technician will change what's essentially a battery passing itself off as whatchamathingit.

Nov 08, 2011
"As for the critics, they only hope the customers know what they're paying for." You mean that the critics hope the customers DON'T know what they are paying for.

Nov 08, 2011
So....If there is in fact, a running commercial e-cat out there...can't you just ask to borrow it for a bit, put it in front of some scientists...and go from there.

Seems fishy...

Nov 08, 2011
Steve, your reputation is for publicizing the reality of cold fusion and the cover-up by the hot fusion and other academic mafia, which I agree with. It could all be a psy-op. But since there is such a thing as cold fusion, why are you so skeptical that he has found something useful? I see you have your own pet theories about the theory behind the process, so I would say that undermines your credibility. Just looking at Rossi and Focardi makes it seem to me that they are being honest. I have a Ph.D. and worked at PLT, TEXT,Tore Supra and DIII-D. I suspect that you are not the best judge of reality, since I don't see any depth to your education.

Nov 08, 2011
from the article:
According to Rossi, each module received an initial energy input of 400 watts
You mean, received energy at the rate of 400 W? Or received 400 Wh of energy? Or...? (Get your units straight.)

stan lippmann:
But since there is such a thing as cold fusion,
Indeed? How many kWh have been produced so far, and--especially important--at what efficiency? Enough to take the researchers' houses, or labs, off the grid? Enough to be worth selling? (Parapharasing the old question, "If they're so smart, why ain't they rich?")

Nov 08, 2011
Hi Lisa,

Thanks for your e-mail. So you got some information from the MSNBC site either as well or instead of the Fox site. Fine. But where did Natalie Wolchover of MSNBC get her information from? Or the incorrect information that Rossi is a physicist? She didn't go to Bologna. She has never done any firsthand reporting on the subject. Wolchover's story appeared one day after the Fox story. Fox got their story from Sterling Allen. Do you see the problem with how you and Wolchover are doing journalism?

I don't care if you come off optimistic or pessimistic. That's not my point. You didn't get some of your facts correct, but that is secondary. The primary issue is that you omitted to report that your crucial "facts" on this story originate

Nov 08, 2011
This is getting to be a long and shaggy story. OK, not much room! Rossi has been doing inadequate demonstrations for nine months. None has had proper calibration and a blank run to verify the measuring equipment. He mostly used evaporation of steam for the output energy estimate -- this can result in an 8:1 error in favor of ... ROSSI. Rossi has never demonstrated radiation, neutrons or new isotopes. No long runs!

Nobody knows who his client is for the megawatt device. During its final test, no visiting reporter or scientist was allowed to witness the instrument readings and a huge diesel generator connected to the device ran for the entire time. Rossi says that somehow, this generator provided "safety".

Rossi could resolve all doubt with a single credible independent test by a university or government lab and he could choose one that does classified research so his secrets would not be jeopardized. That he doesn't do this tells us that this is probably a hoax and a scam.

Nov 08, 2011
[continued]

from what *Rossi says* rather than any kind of journalistic process which would normally include identifying sources and/or your attempts to perform any fact-checking. You owe your readers better than this.

You cannot call Rossi a fraud and neither can I because we will never know Rossi's true intentions and we will never be able to prove a negative. But we can identify whether the facts he presents are consistent with the physical laws of the universe. I and two dozen contributors have done this in Report 3. Rossi's claims are inconsistent with the scientific evidence he has attempted to sell to the public, not for its money, but for their support to help him advertise his claim.




Nov 08, 2011
@SBK - Exit velocity of what, steam? But steam's invisible - evidently you know the difference between wet and dry steam so how can we infer the total vapour output from video of the condensation clouds alone?

Hoist by your own petard..?

Nov 08, 2011
Fox got their story from Sterling Allen.


Oh, that's hilarious if true. Sterling Allen reports as facts anything fanciful virtually anyone claims. At times, he's supported fraudsters and convicted felons like Carl Tilley and Dennis Lee. He supported jokesters like "Mylow" who made a magnetic motor work with a hidden conventional motor linked to his device with a clear nylon fishing line!

Sterling and his coworker Hank Mills currently promote cars that run on water as their only fuel and water heaters that Hank labels as "overunity" (free energy) from a company called Steorn that took 21 million Euros from investors five years ago and has produced not one single working device ever.

As I said elsewhere, with friends like those, Rossi doesn't need enemies.

Nov 08, 2011
There is one piece of good news here. If Rossi is claiming that these units are "for sale" and, as he has previously stated, the costs are quite reasonable, I can think of no reason whatsoever that Harvard, MIT, Stanford, Cal Tech, and JPL couldn't buy one -- hell, they can pitch in since times are tight -- and provide some decent testing on the eCat.

If five major research institutions test the device and receive similar results, this whole thing could be put to bed and we could potentially move on to understanding the science behind the phenomenon. Assuming it exists at all.

Nov 08, 2011
Steve, your reputation is for publicizing the reality of cold fusion and the cover-up by the hot fusion and other academic mafia, which I agree with. It could all be a psy-op. But since there is such a thing as cold fusion, why are you so skeptical that he has found something useful? I see you have your own pet theories about the theory behind the process, so I would say that undermines your credibility. Just looking at Rossi and Focardi makes it seem to me that they are being honest. I have a Ph.D. and worked at PLT, TEXT,Tore Supra and DIII-D. I suspect that you are not the best judge of reality, since I don't see any depth to your education.


Quite amusing. So, "just looking" at Rossi allows you to tell that he is being honest? And you claim to be highly educated? Do you also claim to be a human lie detector?

Nov 08, 2011
@Silverhilll: How rich was Bill Gates the day after he sold his first copy of software?

@StevenBKrivit: Please explain me what kind of scam is Rossi planning. Rossi is not selling patents or ideas or shares of his company, does not ask for money to bring on his research. He sells 470 kW (or 1 MW maximum) heat generators. When he will install the first generator, the customer will see immediately if it works or not. And if it does not works, as nobody pays 2 millions dollars cash, the customer will block the money and Rossi will be in big troubles. Maybe you think Rossi is the dumbest scammer ever?

Nov 08, 2011
Hi Steven,

I agree with what you said except this:

You cannot call Rossi a fraud and neither can I because we will never know Rossi's true intentions and we will never be able to prove a negative.


Some frauds are exposed later, others not. If Rossi ever actually delivers a machine to anyone for any reason, it might be properly tested and examined. If it doesn't deliver, it stands to reason that Rossi is a fraud. Nobody could be exposed to detailed suggestions and critiques like he has for nine months and not know how to properly test his device. It's easy, quick and cheap. He claims to have been working with these machines for at least three years. He says he made a 35 kW heater based on his principle which worked continuously for two years! He claims thousands of successful tests, some of them long and powerful.

That can't be an error -- either it's true or he's a scammer.

Nov 08, 2011
Please explain me what kind of scam is Rossi planning. Rossi is not selling patents or ideas or shares of his company, does not ask for money to bring on his research. He sells 470 kW (or 1 MW maximum) heat generators.

May I respond to that? You're relying on what Rossi says. Past investment scams have taken money only early in the game and only in secret. Steorn seems to operate that way -- to the tune of 21 million Euros so far. And nothing produced at all ever.

Nobody knows for sure that Rossi didn't take money. Ampenergo says they gave him some. (NyTeknik article in May)

Nobody knows if Rossi actually sold anything or if it was entirely a sham to fool some investors. Maybe the customer is himself. How would you know? How would you know how much money Rossi has already collected and put away? Enough people volunteer money for him every day on blogs!

Look at how easy it is to prove the device is real and Rossi has not done it. That should tell you something!

Nov 08, 2011
Rossi has said for some time that his "peer review" would equate to a working 1MW plant. Other than the customer test, which Rossi says performed at around 500 kW, I'm curious about the status of his self-styled "peer review".

Does he feel that it came off as planned and was successful? If so, why, as it performed for only one daily test and failed to reach half of the promised output. And, does he feel that, at this point, there's nothing more to prove? I'm really curious about those missing kWs.

Nov 08, 2011
Silly question..lol

Is this possibly some sort of equivalent to the carryover effect ?

http://en.wikiped..._cooking

Nov 08, 2011
Here's a conspiracy theory for ya..
Big oil is the "customer". They are paying Rossi to stage all this $#!t to keep everything else under the radar.
(it's got a good beat...and, I can dance to it)
The only "fact" is, none of these so called "mainstream news" stories has any "facts" in them....sigh...

Nov 08, 2011
@maryyugo: As nobody could say for sure you're not a serial killer... Seriously, many people offer money to Rossi on his blog, but Rossi does not accept. He keep saying he want to sell his own products. Anyway, maybe (as you said) the first customer does not exist, or just want to keep secret, but for sure in a short time Rossi will explain why does not sell his generators or will deliver some real generator to somebody who will make it works. And if it does not works the customer will surely make everybody knows.

Nov 08, 2011
Please explain me what kind of scam is Rossi planning... Maybe you think Rossi is the dumbest scammer ever?


By all accounts, Rossi has leveraged himself to the hilt, including selling his principal residence. This isn't terribly clear either, as he had apparently opened up a corporate office in Florida -- and relocated there -- as well and the status of that is uncertain.

At this point, it appears that the man is out on the "proverbial limb" and potentially near bankruptcy. Admission of failure at this point would ruin him financially, destroy any remaining credibility he may have, and make it virtually impossible to do any future fundraising in order to pursue his goals.

As the local D.A. would say, that's all the motivation you need to do something foolish.

Nov 08, 2011
Excuse me, are we all just going to ignore Rossi's research arrangement with the University of Bologne? That he's paying something like $500K for, out of pocket?

Unless you think the U of B is in on this scam, then I can't see how they continue to support his work. I don't hear them saying Rossi is a scammer, and they have hosted some of his tests. I don't hear them saying he's a scammer, and they are about to begin two years of research to try to pin down the underlying fundamental physics, and refine the technology.

And the University of Upsalla is next in line.

These research plans are clearly public knowledge, yet both universities say nothing against Rossi.

What have I missed?

Nov 08, 2011
And yet.... (despite the valiant efforts of Maryyugo) the story refuses to die.
In the next couple of months, one of two things will happen
Mr. Rossi will...
A; Take the money and run
B; Profoundly change the world as we know it.
Time will tell, I just hope someone is keeping a close eye on him.

Nov 08, 2011
@Nerdyguy : If you're right, in a very short time Rossi will start selling shares or the whole patent. Just wait and see.

Nov 08, 2011
And if it does not works the customer will surely make everybody knows.


Possibly. Unless that customer happens to be part of a military organization, government agency -- some more than others (e.g., China) -- or anyone at all that might feel embarrassed by the resulting bad press.

Nov 08, 2011
If you give people enough doubt to _believe_ they will, and ruthlessly, because it's a creation they want more than anything to be real.

It's true, Rossi has the means to actually prove this is real and does not, period.

Steorn is an amazing example, I followed them for years, kept tabs to see where they would end up, to this day have nothing to show for all of it and there is nothing on the horizon.

We're talking about actual instances of elaborate lies, and they're 'innocent lies', everything is made for you to believe that they are sincere in their own beliefs and that if things ultimately didn't work they can get out of it with an "OK, I guess I was wrong, but good science was done! *walks away with millions*."

Steorn and Rossi can execute this money making pattern and end it with 'it was real science, we have proof, we believed it was real' and it can never be proven otherwise.

That is the reason why you should believe in actual science, it removes all of the bullshit.

Nov 08, 2011
@Nerdyguy : The first customer is probably, as I had read somewhere, a research lab of US Navy. But ok for the first, or the second, but you think Rossi can live long and happily by frauding such a kind of customers?

Nov 08, 2011
Excuse me, are we all just going to ignore Rossi's research arrangement with the University of Bologne? That he's paying something like $500K for, out of pocket?

Unless you think the U of B is in on this scam, then I can't see how they continue to support his work. I don't hear them saying Rossi is a scammer, and they have hosted some of his tests. I don't hear them saying he's a scammer, and they are about to begin two years of research to try to pin down the underlying fundamental physics, and refine the technology.

And the University of Upsalla is next in line.

These research plans are clearly public knowledge, yet both universities say nothing against Rossi.

What have I missed?


Has the relationship w/ UB been confirmed? I know Rossi has spoken of it publicly, but has the university ever acknowledged?

Nov 08, 2011
we should be allowed to delete our own posts. :|

Nov 08, 2011
@Nerdyguy : The first customer is probably, as I had read somewhere, a research lab of US Navy. But ok for the first, or the second, but you think Rossi can live long and happily by frauding such a kind of customers?


mmm, history says sometimes yes - however, given the circumstances, I'd say he might still have a few years, but not much longer, hopefully much sooner.

Nov 08, 2011
@Nerdyguy : The first customer is probably, as I had read somewhere, a research lab of US Navy. But ok for the first, or the second, but you think Rossi can live long and happily by frauding such a kind of customers?


"Long and happily"? No. If it's a fraud, it will certainly come out. But these things can go on for quite a few years. Ask Bernie Madoff.

Nov 08, 2011
UB has apparently had representatives at the demos. But They have publicly stated there is no official relationship between Mr. Rossi and them..as of yet.

(2nd hand info from some blog)

Nov 08, 2011
UB has apparently had representatives at the demos. But They have publicly stated there is no official relationship between Mr. Rossi and them..as of yet.

(2nd hand info from some blog)


Exactly. One of the reasons this thing screams "hoax" is the lack of consistent details.

I've repeatedly heard various universities and researchers mentioned in connection with Rossi. Yet, the source documents for these (that I can find anyway) are always from Rossi himself. Reported and re-reported on a hundred different blogs.

Does anyone know if he actually has a signed piece of paper with any university?

Nov 08, 2011
@SincerelyTwo : Ok, Rossi is not a scientist. He only want to build his products and sell, or to fraud everybody as you think. He only have to give proofs to his customers. You don't aspect Apple to allow independent tests of his next phone, don't you? When enough generators will be sold, (and if Rossi will not be convicted in jail) real scientists will come in and do all the tests you want. Just have to wait same more time.

Nov 08, 2011
@sincerelyTwo - i also followed Steorn from the start and have now seen multiple proofs of OU. The gains are a direct and inevitable consequence of the effects first described by Rutherford in 1896. Asymmetric magnetic interactions are an incontrovertible fact of nature - the output vs input force-displacement integrals can sum to positive or negative values depending on comparative rates of change. This is implicit just from first principles of BH dynamics.

It may seem that too much time has passed to sustain your interest, but application of this technology is still very much in its infancy. It is coming to fruition and there's no millions to walk away with until it does so...

Nov 08, 2011
^ @ Nerdyguy

"Has the relationship w/ UB been confirmed? I know Rossi has spoken of it publicly, but has the university ever acknowledged?"

I honestly don't know. Reasons I suspect it's true:

- Rossi keeps frequent company with them
- the arrangement seems to have been in the works for months
- it's been mentioned publicly for months
- it's a pretty hot topic / hot publicity (even if not widely reported)

So, they have had a lot of time to publicly DENY or DENOUNCE the existence of the research agreement, and considering the controversy, it seems all the more unlikely they would stand mute for so long if Rossi was lying about it. You can bet any other university would speak up about such a lie, because Rossi isn't just some random schitzo babbling on the street that can be easily ignored.

What's more, it seems that the researchers at the U of B have an inside story because of their association with Rossi. I suspect they have more reason to have faith in his work.

Nov 08, 2011
There are at least three reasons this story got its legs. The first is because Rossi is a master at appealing to people. He adorns his fans with praise but makes (e)catcalls at his critics. Very early on, when I knew less, he told me, "You help me now, I will help you forever."

A second thing Rossi had going for him is that he was able to capitalize on the dreams and hopes of good people who have good intentions for a better world. They are frustrated with the lack of viable options for clean energy and by domination from the petrocacy. Some of the cold fusion believers, who can't seem to understand the difference between the strong force and the weak force also fit into this category. They have been waiting a long time for big news that is real. Waiting for their cold fusion messiah. My experience in telling them that Rossi is not it has been like telling children that Santa Claus is not real.

[continued next message]

Nov 08, 2011
Nerdyguy : As I remember, Bernie Madoff worked with money, that is, numbers. Virtual things, not real generators. This is very different. As I said, if Rossi is a scammer, he will only fraud the first customer.

Nov 08, 2011
The U of B contract has been confirmed by the university however it has not been funded and is inactive. Rossi has said on his blog he would keep results of tests secret (why?) but he will allow the universities to say *when* they receive a device if they ever do. So far they have not. Why? Rossi says he has hundreds of them!

Did Rossi sell his house? Is he on the edge of bankruptcy? Who knows? We have only Rossi as an information source about such matters. And his past record of truthfulness and accomplishments is checkered at best.

@Vibrator Steorn demonstrated an overunity motor? How's that possible? Where is the independent test and confirmation? Where are the products? Show us the beef! Steorn closed its formerly rather censored forum. They have never shipped anything to anyone. Show us something and not just the empty flatulence from Sean McCarthy!

Nov 08, 2011
I think Rossi is doing this because, even when he has a PATENT in Italy, USA has not give him a Patent. That said, I think Rossi is doing all he can do to protect his invention (even when it sounds and smells like a scam). I will do exactly the same. Scam ??? yeaaahhh... WHO he is stealing money from???? Did Steven Krivit put any money on it ???? Tell me ONE person that is losing money on the Ecat or that Rossi is stealing money from. NOBODY. The only one who will loose all his money and house will be Rossi. Also, if the "supposed" customers don´t get what they were promised and also TESTED from the Ecat machine, the only one who will get the blame is Rossi. So, I don´t have enough evidence to call the Ecat REAL, but I don´t any evidence to call it a scam and just because I don´t have all the data I want to call it real, I am not going to call it a scam. I will wait, if Rossi is a scam, he will be the only loser that will loose everything he has in life, but if he is real... WOW !

Nov 08, 2011
I applaud Steven B. Krivit's comments, especially about the lack of reporting integrity and skepticism, especially when dealing with grand claims made in the scientific arena. Bravo.

The first customer is probably, as I had read somewhere, a research lab of US Navy. But ok for the first, or the second, but you think Rossi can live long and happily by frauding such a kind of customers?

He won't make his scam money by selling products to customers, but by attracting investment capital from rubes before any products are legitimately delivered (if ever).

Nov 08, 2011
As a professional test lab manager, I have had quite enough of Steven and the other, rather lazy journalists.

Where is the story now? A big part of it is where our heroic journos need to be... at NRL,where they have built a huge test rig for LENR devices... to no known purpose, and at SPAWAR, and at NASA where there are people who recently visited Rossi but who are suspiciously quiet, etc. etc.

Steven, and others.. quit crabbing and start investigating!

Mike Cahill

Nov 08, 2011
Nerdyguy : As I remember, Bernie Madoff worked with money, that is, numbers. Virtual things, not real generators. This is very different. As I said, if Rossi is a scammer, he will only fraud the first customer.


Can you say "Enron"? One silly little playout scenario i considered was Rossi reselling grid power at loss, offset by the resultant snowballing contracts (cos that's the deal AFAIK, leasing the units and selling the juice). Falls thru when smaller clients start getting their power cut off for Leonardo Corp's unpaid utility bills... which could take years...

But that's a little paranoid for me, prefer to remain patiently optimistic...

Nov 08, 2011
You don't aspect Apple to allow independent tests of his next phone, don't you?

Damn right we do. What if the antenna still doesn't work? But that isn't the point. The iPhone doesn't claim to work on magic - it doesn't use an over unity battery for example. It's all standard stuff.

Nov 08, 2011
I admit, I'm tempted to toss a rotten fruit at Lisa for vague third- or fourth-hand reporting. It's the internet echo chamber with a vengeance, something I'd prefer not to see at PhysOrg.

But perhaps we ought to cut her some slack. There *are* no facts worth reporting. Nobody knows what's in the black boxes Rossi has made. There are no theories, no peer reviewed science, not even thorough measurements over respectable time periods. Lisa's choice is to ignore the whole subject or to report to PhysOrg readers that something fishy and vague is still going on and remains unresolved. I suppose the latter is worth knowing.

I very much doubt he's sold any boxes. A buyer would be sure to tear it apart and find out what's inside, which is something Rossi does not seem to want to permit.

Sorry folks, it sure smells like a scam from where I sit. I expect he'll suck up millions from foolish investors, declare bankruptcy, flee to Bolivia and marry a girl half his age.

Nov 08, 2011
Hey Mary, yu awite darlin? As ever, all you'll allow yourself to admit is the circumstantial stuff, and WRT Rossi's i'm in the same boat - that's all i've got to go on too. In Steorn's case however i know the secret sauce, the mechanism... and six ways from Sunday. Objective, empirical facts, gospel physics, straight down the line, no muckin' about... not much else to say 'cept join the spudclub if you really want in... you know the coo.. ;P xx

Nov 08, 2011
Take this to the bank: the reason that AP is not reporting is that they are still chasing the story. When AP reports it will be much more than this bluster-muster that we see from the Specialty Press. And AP will NOT be seen on Physorg defending itself... ever... they will be out chasing the NEXT step in the story.

Nov 08, 2011
There is no evidence for the existence of any customer. But your readers may not know this.
The cold fusion of hydrogen at nickel has already twenty years of research behind it. It's actually as old stuff as Microsoft Windows 3.0, for example.

http://www.rexres...elli.htm
http://www.newene...eg.shtml

exit velocity I showed on videotape and Rossi's claim five minutes later that he had just shown me proof of kilowatts of heat
Videotaping of experiments is not the best replication path. If you're really interested whether this fusion is working, why not to replicate the twenty years old experiments of profs. Piantelli and Foccardi, which are perfectly documented in standard scientific way? If these experiments are real, then there is no reason to doubt A. Rossi experiments.

Nov 08, 2011
@italba:
How rich was Bill Gates the day after he sold his first copy of software?
The (somewhat ill-timed) announcement that the University of Utah urged Fleischmann and Pons to make was 22 years ago. "No incontestable results in 22 years" is categorically different from "No real income the day after a software release".

Nov 08, 2011
Mr. Krivit I don't understand why you consider this such a pressing crisis. If Rossi is a liar and his device is inert, we have nothing to lose. There is no public money committed to the E-Cat. Why should we care if it is a fake? It would be quickly discovered upon its first sales to the public and the matter would be over and done in the first month.

Your need to defame Rossi as a dangerous fraud does not match the level of risk to the public this product represents. I say let him sell it openly, let the public determine its usefulness, and let the matter be resolved in the open.

I fear the mysterious customers may be malevolent agencies and if they find the device poses a threat to the ruling oil-energy paradigm the E-Cat will vanish and the public will lose a valuable invention. That is the risk we all should fear, not the exposure of a harmless man with a fanciful dream.

Nov 08, 2011
Whats making the answer so difficult to determine is the lack of a clear, scientific explanation of what exactly is going on.
This is nonsense. For example, so far we have no clear, scientific explanation of high temperature superconductivity (the mine one is ignored). But no one attempts to doubt it. On the contrary, the long-standing existence of scientific theory doesn't mean, that phenomena is real (Higgs boson, gravitational waves as an example). The physics is an experimental science and the only criterion of validity of some phenomena were, are and will be just an experiments.

Nov 08, 2011
Mr. Krivit I don't understand why you consider this such a pressing crisis.
I don't understand a much more things at the case of Krivit person. For example, he was presenting the Foccardi and Piantelli research at public many years (see my links above) - and now he's trying to doubt the very same technology obstinately.

What happened to Mr. Krivit? Was his brain irradiated during some cold fusion experiment?

Nov 08, 2011
[continued]

A third thing Rossi had going for him is the atrocious journalism done by Mats Lewan; turning a blind eye to lack of control experiments, to perpetually overly-complicated experiments, to the lack of steam exit velocity and volume, to Rossi's hand on the controls when it shouldn't have been, writing Rossi's reports for him and then writing news stories based on his own technical reports, writing scientific-sounding news stories about Levi's 18-hour test without a single piece of documented evidence. Mats is an experienced journalist. He should have known better.

As the POC@NASA Marshall told me, he had a difficult time believing Rossi, but Rossi's claim was so big and so bold that he couldn't believe that Rossi would have the audacity to run a scam of this magnitude.

Lisa, try to find any credible data that supports Rossi's claim. Trace it to source and identify source. It's all about the data. Not belief. Not fantasy. What can you do for your readers?


Nov 08, 2011
Does it have anything to do with the Bloom Box? I remember very very similar circumstances surrounding the unveiling of the Bloom Box.

Nov 08, 2011
Andrea Rossi is not scientist. He actually never wrote a single line about cold fusion research. He is interpreter and a private person, who is doing an applied research for his private money. Being private person, he is absolutely not obliged to provide any details about his technology, until he and his customers are comfortable with it. Everything else would be a violation of private intellectual property of Mr. Rossi.

So if physicists are interested whether the cold fusion is really working, they had twenty years for replication of perfectly documented experiments of Piantelli and Foccardi. They wasted this time in doing BS, so now they shouldn't be very surprised, if private investors don't require them for any validations of cold fusion technology.

Every ignorance comes with it's own price. The price which mainstream physicists are paying right now is the lost of credibility and competency for judgment and validation of important findings.

Nov 08, 2011
Take this to the bank: the reason that AP is not reporting is that they are still chasing the story. When AP reports it will be much more than this bluster-muster that we see from the Specialty Press. And AP will NOT be seen on Physorg defending itself... ever... they will be out chasing the NEXT step in the story.
I thought exactly the same - this guy's the only pro at the party, he's taken a look round and said to himself "feck me - if there's a scoop here it's mine!" and they'll not go to print till he's got something substantive... one way or the other.. which he undoubtedly will...

Nov 08, 2011
try to find any credible data that supports Rossi's claim
Huh?? It's just you, who collected the data about cold fusion of hydrogen at nickel whole years? Who wrote this article in 2008?

http://www.newene...eg.shtml

What did you expected from it? If you don't believe in this technology, why are you adoring it all the time? Don't you know, Mr. Focardi is a technical advisor of A. Rossi? He is present at all public demonstrations of E-cat.

http://coldfusion..._300.jpg

Nov 08, 2011
I fear the mysterious customers may be malevolent agencies and if they find the device poses a threat to the ruling oil-energy paradigm the E-Cat will vanish and the public will lose a valuable invention. That is the risk we all should fear, not the exposure of a harmless man with a fanciful dream.


I expect we all bit our lips when it turned out the chief engineer of the first customer is some kind of colonel..!

lol "here we go.." ;)

Nov 08, 2011
I expect we all bit our lips when it turned out the chief engineer of the first customer is some kind of colonel..! "here we go.." ;)
Why? The army was a first customer of wast majority of advanced technologies. Don't you remember, how Internet originally emerged from Arpanet? We all are using a military technology by now.

Nov 08, 2011
I admit, I'm tempted to toss a rotten fruit at Lisa for vague third- or fourth-hand reporting. It's the internet echo chamber with a vengeance, something I'd prefer not to see at PhysOrg.

But perhaps we ought to cut her some slack. There *are* no facts worth reporting. Nobody knows what's in the black boxes Rossi has made. There are no theories, no peer reviewed science, not even thorough measurements over respectable time periods. Lisa's choice is to ignore the whole subject or to report to PhysOrg readers that something fishy and vague is still going on and remains unresolved. I suppose the latter is worth knowing.

I very much doubt he's sold any boxes. A buyer would be sure to tear one apart and find out what's inside, which is something Rossi does not seem to want to permit.

Sorry folks, it sure smells like a scam from where I sit. I expect he'll suck up millions from foolish investors, declare bankruptcy, flee to Bolivia and marry a girl half his age.

Nov 08, 2011
I expect we all bit our lips when it turned out the chief engineer of the first customer is some kind of colonel..! "here we go.." ;)
Why? The army was a first customer of wast majority of advanced technologies. Don't you remember, how Internet originally emerged from Arpanet? We all are using a military technology by now.
just kidding, i'm sure they're a perfectly benevolent, if soon-to-be-omnipotent organisation...

Nov 08, 2011
Nobody knows what's in the black boxes Rossi has made. There are no theories, no peer reviewed science, not even thorough measurements over respectable time periods.
There are many theories of cold fusion already. And who is responsible for the lack of peer-review at the case of cold fusion at nickel? Andrea Rossi? Or just the mainstream physicists, who ignored Foccardi and Piantelli experiments for twenty years?

And why do you think, these experiments weren't thorough enough? And what do you consider a "respectable time period"? Piantelli and Foccardi managed to keep their cells in generation of heat whole months. These experiments were all described throughly and published in official journals of Italian Academy of Science. Even S. Krivit was reporting about it repeatedly.

You're just trying to cover the ignorance of mainstream physics with your lies, face it. I'm not so stupid - and even if yes, I've still a perfect memory.

Nov 08, 2011
The sweet secret of cold fusion is, it doesn't require any secret catalyst. It even doesn't require a gaseous hydrogen or even nickel dust. It works simply with electrolytic co-deposition of nickel and hydrogen from hot carbonate solution. You can replicate it with washing soda in your potty.

http://newenergyt...ions.pdf
http://www.focus....7167.pdf
http://www.spawar...vol1.pdf
http://newenergyt...ts-w.pdf

And yes, A. Rossi's customers did these experiments too.

Nov 08, 2011
Heh. Callippo, you don't even know who his customers are. Rossi isn't telling.

I get that you're sold on cold fusion. But even if - a big if - you're right about it, you don't know what's in Rossi's boxes either. Nobody knows but Rossi.

It's not lying to say that Rossi isn't forthcoming with details about his black boxes. The rest of what I said is cynical speculation - which is fine, because speculation is all anyone can do until Rossi tells us what's in those boxes.

Let's not pretend that belief without evidence is science, hmm?

Nov 08, 2011
Let's not pretend that belief without evidence is science
The disbelief without evidence is science neither... It's simply belief in negative hypothesis - that's all. No less, no more.
you don't even know who his customers are
You cannot even know, what I know. Look, the people like you are ignoring both "vague third- or fourth-hand reporting", both "first-hand" reports, which I'm studying instead. Such people cannot be convinced with any evidence - they just waiting what the majority of people will do. Their way of belief is completely intersubjective.

Nov 08, 2011
Mr. Krivit: in my opinion, you should clarify if you have business interests that benefit you if inventions such as the E-cat are not successful.

I say the above because Mr. Rossi wrote in the JoNP, November 2nd, the following:

"... Before or later I will publish the story of our relationship with this guy, as well as tapes in which he and his fellows have been videotaped while trying to steal samples of powder in my factory during a visit, as well as a draft of a contract which was a fraud."

Personally, I think it would be good if you get me out of doubt, to take you seriously.

Nov 08, 2011
New technology goes through three stages:

1) First it is ridiculed by those ignorant of its potential;
2) Next it is subverted by those threatened by its potential;
3) Finally it is considered self-evident.

Nov 08, 2011
Thanks again for your e-mail Lisa.

Your statement "most scientists whose work I cover would be appalled to say something even slightly misleading" is absolutely crucial.

You assume that scientists or people making scientific-sounding claims maitain such a level of ethical behavior. This is what I expect and hope too. And this assumption makes some unsuspecting journalists easy prey for sources who operate under different ethics.

Talk about slightly misleading just look at Rossis own statements for the best example. In his 2010 self-published paper, he claimed an energy gain of 213 times. Yet, in January 2011, Rossi downgraded the claim to a 30 times energy gain. In April, he downgraded his claim again, to 6 times.

[continued]

Nov 08, 2011
Steven Krivit, "There is no evidence for the existence of any customer."

That's just plain wrong! While it is not impossible for Rossi to have faked a customer, there is evidence (evidence is not absolute proof) of a customer.

First, there is a signed contract that has been published on the net. That is evidence.

Second, the contract was signed by one Domenico Fioravanti. A bit of research on him shows that he has the necessary expertise and experience to do the evaluation. He has quite an illustrious and honorable history. I have not seen Mr. Fioravanti suggest that it was not he that signed the document. I have not seen anyone suggest he was paid the millions of euros that it would take for a man of his stature to soil his reputation (likely no sum would be sufficient).

Absolute proof that there is a customer? No. Proof that a man qualified to do the analysis signed off on it? Yes! Proof that this man was somehow bought? Well Steve, we're expecting you to provide that.

Nov 09, 2011
Wow! This thread has all the makings of a 1st class Clancy novel! What was that movie with Val Kilmer a few years ago? The Saint?
Mr. Londono - I think you are correct in your assessment of the vitriolic tone of Mr. K.'s commentary It seems so - contrived, given his past advocation of the "technology".
IF I, as a guy who discovered something outside of my field, (which was also something real scientists chose to ignore), I'd be pretty closed- mouth about it too.
All in all, I'm with Supermike's team on this one. If he has a customer that is not satisfied -- this'll be a wash. Or, he gets lots of hush money for an invention that mysteriously melts into the "don't ask" zone...:-) THEN watch the conspiracy theories start up!

Anyway, give it a month or 2. Hell, society has waited a hundred years, what's another couple gonna do?

Nov 09, 2011
One more thing.
NOT a patent attorney, so I can say THIS with surety - I don't know what intellectual property protection Mr. Rossi really has. He may not either, so maybe he is right in being cautious and less than forthcoming.
And - can't someone just look up the Italian Patent? Or is it a secret organization not accessable to anyone except government leaders and uber rich, malevolently evil corporations? (Notice how I cleverly tied those 2 entities together...:-)
Shoot! Hope I'm not giving away the plot to my novel...

Nov 09, 2011
Steven Krivit; while there Rossi/Focardi and crew have been purposefully vague in details, they clearly have a made a tremendous discovery and created an invention from it. This will be transformative science. Its real.


Nov 09, 2011
Rossi's elusive behavior makes me suspicious. I will not invest in his claimed technology.

Nov 09, 2011
Just as Steven Krivit editorialized all against BEC cold fusion theory in one of his editorial rants, he has been crapping on this Rossi similarly. I think Rossi/Focardi will be shown to be a result of BEC fusion, but then NiH fusion is pretty awesome if it happens.


Nov 09, 2011
That's just plain wrong! While it is not impossible for Rossi to have faked a customer, there is evidence (evidence is not absolute proof) of a customer.

First, there is a signed contract that has been published on the net. That is evidence.

Second, the contract was signed by one Domenico Fioravanti. A bit of research on him shows that he has the necessary expertise and experience to do the evaluation. He has quite an illustrious and honorable history.


My bit of research can find no details on this Colonel Fioravanti. Please post a link to your source.

Nov 09, 2011
Nonsense, Rossi is obviously legitimate. Here is a PowerPoint presentation by George Miley of the University of Illinois who has successfully replicated the LENR "cold fusion" reaction: https://netfiles....als.pptx

By the way, Ni H K2CO3(heated under pressure)=Cu lots of heat. Here is a detailed description of a device and formula from a US government contract: www.lenr-canr.org...thyd.pdf Just so you're not confused, they then thought the over unity heat was from the hydrogen atom shrinking (i.e. "hydrino"), not the nickel turning into copper.

I mean, years ago the Defense Intelligence Agency was reporting teams getting over unity results from LENR: http://coldfusion...d-fusion

Nov 09, 2011

In his 2010 self-published paper, he claimed an energy gain of 213 times. Yet, in January 2011, Rossi downgraded the claim to a 30 times energy gain. In April, he downgraded his claim again, to 6 times.

This is NOT true. In his final test he achived actualy selfsustained mode, so the efficiency is INFINITE!
In nonselfsustained mode the minimum COP is 6.

So dont twist the words!


Nov 09, 2011
[continued]

You wrote "Wouldn't it be nice if a team of mainstream scientists could dissect this and write a real paper? Or has critiquing science in such detail become the journalists job now?"

That would be nice, but it will never happen. No mainstream science journalist will even waste their time on this (and for good reason,) though some mainstream technology journalists will and have.

I'm putting the question back to you: Using this case as an example, what can you do to help elevate the quality, or at least the awareness of quality science journalism?

Nov 09, 2011
I'm putting the question back to you: Using this case as an example, what can you do to help elevate the quality, or at least the awareness of quality science journalism?


How about reality based reporting, rather than slanderous sophism masquerading as such. Skepticism ought not be used as an excuse for acting like a snake.

Nov 09, 2011
#
Andrea Rossi
November 8th, 2011 at 2:57 PM

Dear Matthew Waters:
As I always said, I want not to play foot-ball with the bones of People. My company at the moment is a warship in stormy weather, during a hard battle. To invest in it is premature. So far we just sell industrial plants of 1 MW and our Customers are financing us.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

#
Matthew Waters
November 8th, 2011 at 2:16 PM

Mr. Rossi,

Ive heard rumors that you may start selling shares of your corporation. If this is true could you confirm, and if so, where would this information be announced? Further more, when would you be planning to do this?

Nov 09, 2011
"Scammer" doesnt want money.

Nov 09, 2011
Doberman - excellent links (specially the PDF)
Jimbo - He isn't asking you to. He's doing it all on his own.

I won't invest in it either, but a different set of reasons...

Nov 09, 2011
Andrea Rossi
November 8th, 2011 at 2:57 PM

Dear Matthew Waters:
As I always said, I want not to play foot-ball with the bones of People. My company at the moment is a warship in stormy weather, during a hard battle. To invest in it is premature. So far we just sell industrial plants of 1 MW and our Customers are financing us.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Matthew Waters
November 8th, 2011 at 2:16 PM

Mr. Rossi,

Ive heard rumors that you may start selling shares of your corporation. If this is true could you confirm, and if so, where would this information be announced? Further more, when would you be planning to do this?

Nov 09, 2011
How can a person with intellectual honesty grant that other teams are getting over unity results using a LENR Ni-H exothermic reaction, then turn around and imply Rossi is a fraud?

"Sorry, but convoluted frauds involving lots of parties is the least likely. So are 3 groups [now more] of science observers too stupid to recognize an obvious fraud. Also, there are enough other NiH results which suggest a LENR reaction."

By the way, here is link to another repeatable LENR Ni-H experiment similar to Rossi's: http://www.facebo...67008023

Nov 09, 2011
I just wish Rossi would provide some details on the radiation generated when the ecat is running. I hear he claims that gamma ray spectrometry would reveal too many secrets but I'd like to at least hear the clocks from a Geiger counter.

Nov 09, 2011
"I just wish Rossi would provide some details on the radiation generated when the ecat is running. I hear he claims that gamma ray spectrometry would reveal too many secrets but I'd like to at least hear the clocks from a Geiger counter."

http://quantumtan...cat.html

But clearly, we have from Rossi's own site, from Rossi himself that the reaction definitely produces Gamma, and from even the video that the Gammas are produced, but they do not "escape" because they are trapped by the metals, particularly the lead, and "thermalized"...

He mentioned that in the movie above... see 6,40 to 7,30 above in the movie...

Also notice, when he holds the dosimeter a few feet away from the device, it reads 0.13mS/hr. When it is adjacent to the machine, both before and after, it appears to fluctuate between 0.15 and 0.16, suggesting there may be a ridiculously tiny leakage.

Nov 09, 2011
Been doing a few searches around the net and - this seems to be building up some (here it comes)- steam!
Obviously Mr. Rossi will need to make licensing arrangements in order make this go global with any speed, tho. There is obviously no way to meet the massive potential demand by building his own manufacturing org. Ramp up costs would be too exorbitant. And the ROI would just take too long (for a lender to handle).
That said - I hope this doesn't get swept under a rug because of factors like that (among others). I sincerely hope the "too good to be true" paradigm - isn't. and I wish Mr. Rossi all the luck he can handle.

Nov 09, 2011
I just wish Rossi would provide some details on the radiation generated when the ecat is running. I hear he claims that gamma ray spectrometry would reveal too many secrets but I'd like to at least hear the clocks from a Geiger counter.


"We have from Rossi's own site, from Rossi himself that the reaction definitely produces Gamma, and from even the video that the Gammas are produced, but they do not "escape" because they are trapped by the metals, particularly the lead, and "thermalized"...

He mentioned that in the movie above... see 6,40 to 7,30 above in the movie...[sorry, but my notes don't contain link to movie nor to specific comment -DM]

Also notice, when he holds the dosimeter a few feet away from the device, it reads 0.13mS/hr. When it is adjacent to the machine, both before and after, it appears to fluctuate between 0.15 and 0.16, suggesting there may be a ridiculously tiny leakage."

BTW Some are having trouble reproducing the experiment with radiation.

Nov 09, 2011
I think Arkaleus hit the nail on the head:

"Mr. Krivit I don't understand why you consider this such a pressing crisis. If Rossi is a liar and his device is inert, we have nothing to lose. There is no public money committed to the E-Cat. Why should we care if it is a fake? It would be quickly discovered upon its first sales to the public and the matter would be over and done in the first month.

Your need to defame Rossi as a dangerous fraud does not match the level of risk to the public this product represents. I say let him sell it openly, let the public determine its usefulness, and let the matter be resolved in the open.

I fear the mysterious customers may be malevolent agencies and if they find the device poses a threat to the ruling oil-energy paradigm the E-Cat will vanish and the public will lose a valuable invention. That is the risk we all should fear, not the exposure of a harmless man with a fanciful dream."

Krivit is coming off shrill and not objective.

Nov 09, 2011
There are two sides to every story my friends.

Steven B Krivit travelled to Bologna and then had a fall out with Rossi and since then Rossi can do nothing right in his eyes - hence the 7 Billion comments left in this thread. Additionally Rossi says that Krivit is against him because Krivit is friendly with Piantelli (one of Rossi's competitors).

MaryYugo (a pseudonym) on the other hand is a professional debunker who has a career in establishment defending. Pseudosceptics like her have no interest in the truth - simply to debunk and defend the establishment dogma.

I salute you Lisa for having the courage to cover the story when the establishment would rather this was kept quiet.

Nov 09, 2011
MaryYugo is a fully paid up member of moletrap - a forum haven for pseudosceptics where the only game in town is James Randi, Richard (dogma) Dawkins, Penn and Teller (the less said the better), and any other establishment defenders you can think of.

While I think it's important to be sceptical, mindless pseudoscepticism is what we are being subjected to. Pseudoscepticism is defined as thinking that CLAIMS to be sceptical, but is actually faith-based disbelief. Pseudoscepticism may also be described as making pseudoscientific arguments in pursuit of a sceptical agenda.

Nov 09, 2011
I fear the mysterious customers may be malevolent agencies and if they find the device poses a threat to the ruling oil-energy paradigm the E-Cat will vanish and the public will lose a valuable invention. That is the risk we all should fear, not the exposure of a harmless man with a fanciful dream.
If malevolent agencies thought that The Mr. Rossi Brewing System was in fact the energy miracle Rossi and his gullible minions portray it to be, then it undoubtedly wouldve been lifted months ago from his high security research facility.


Nov 09, 2011
Three comments on this.
First, an Italian patent application - or any in the E.C. - can be followed up by other European applications within a 12 month delay. Then, as U.S. Law currently gives priority to the date of the idea rather than of the application, there is no hurry for that.
Secondly, U.S. Law in particular permits the buyer of a device covered by patent protection to do what he likes - apart from copy it for resale. This is apparently why Xerox copiers were initially leased rather than sold.
Finally, commenting in Dobermanmcloud's mention of hydrinos a couple of hours ago:
Early work back in 1933 did this trick with lithium and hydrogen. Hydrogen is easier as the atom is small. This makes me suspect that hydrinos would be even better, as smaller, so the Hydrino process might be a participant in the overall e-cat effect. The requirement to heat the stuff for a while, and then one sees a much fast temperature rise when the reaction starts, is also reported by Blacklight P

Nov 09, 2011
so the Hydrino process might be a participant in the overall e-cat effect
IMO it cannot from simple reason: the hydrino process is based on alleged half integer quantum state of hydrogen. Such hypothetical state, even if it could exist, cannot trap as many energy, as most of experiments of Piantelli/Focardi (and A. Rossi, after all) are requiring. The hydrino process is still classical chemical process and if cold fusion can produce such energy gain, then it's evident, the nuclear process must be involved, not just chemical one.

I admit, Randall Mills was a true original founder of cold fusion at nickel, but his hydrino "explanation" brings more questions than answers. He simply forgot to conside nuclear process and so he invented such an ad-hoced explanation.

Nov 09, 2011
Try to imagine, whole the hydrino stuff is real and the energy is released under formation of hydrino as an "ash". What will happen, if you dissolve the exhausted catalyst for example in acid? The hydrino will somehow recombine into original hydrogen and such reaction will suck an energy from outside, just because the hydrino is so endothermic product. Whereas R. Mills claimed both energy gain, both hydrino content in reaction products (without description of analysis provided) - he never demonstrated, whether and how such cooling occurs. Apparently, none of critics of hydrino theory considered this simple consequence too. Briefly speaking, whole the hydrino theory is just a huge desperate nonsense, which is spread with people, who cannot use their brain.

Nov 09, 2011
Krivit sees clear signs of fraud.

I see clear signs of somebody going to great lengths to prevent thermal runaway. That and the fact that he has invited too many very intelligent people to his demonstrations have convinced me that this is not a fraud.

Nov 09, 2011
Take this to the bank: the reason that AP is not reporting is that they are still chasing the story. When AP reports it will be much more than this bluster-muster that we see from the Specialty Press. And AP will NOT be seen on Physorg defending itself... ever... they will be out chasing the NEXT step in the story.


Yes, perhaps even chasing it (him) all the way to the local jailhouse.

Nov 09, 2011
Andrea Rossi is not scientist. He actually never wrote a single line about cold fusion research. He is interpreter and a private person, who is doing an applied research for his private money. Being private person, he is absolutely not obliged to provide any details about his technology, until he and his customers are comfortable with it. Everything else would be a violation of private intellectual property of Mr. Rossi.

So if physicists are interested whether the cold fusion is really working, they had twenty years for replication of perfectly documented experiments of Piantelli and Foccardi. They wasted this time in doing BS, so now they shouldn't be very surprised, if private investors don't require them for any validations of cold fusion technology.

Every ignorance comes with it's own price. The price which mainstream physicists are paying right now is the lost of credibility and competency for judgment and validation of important findings.


OK Mr. Rossi, I mean Callipo.

Nov 09, 2011
Steven Krivit; while there Rossi/Focardi and crew have been purposefully vague in details, they clearly have a made a tremendous discovery and created an invention from it. This will be transformative science. Its real.


"It's real." Really? How the hell do you know? Have you seen it/touched it/tested it? Until you have, it's called "wishful thinking".

Is it possible it's real? Of course, anything is possible. Is it real? Not one of us on this forum has a clue.

However, what we do know is, in the aftermath of the Madoff affair, a whole lot of naive people walked around scratching their heads while thinking "why did no one tell me"? Didn't anyone know it was a scam?

Nov 09, 2011

"It's real." Really? How the hell do you know? Have you seen it/touched it/tested it? Until you have, it's called "wishful thinking".
I have not seen, touched, or tasted a black hole either. Regardless, I am quite convinced that they are real.

Nov 09, 2011
Maybe Rossi is a phsychologist studying the responses to his claims.

Nov 09, 2011
MaryYugo is a fully paid up member of moletrap - a forum haven for pseudosceptics where the only game in town is James Randi, Richard (dogma) Dawkins, Penn and Teller (the less said the better), and any other establishment defenders you can think of.

While I think it's important to be sceptical, mindless pseudoscepticism is what we are being subjected to. Pseudoscepticism is defined as thinking that CLAIMS to be sceptical, but is actually faith-based disbelief. Pseudoscepticism may also be described as making pseudoscientific arguments in pursuit of a sceptical agenda.


"Faith-based" disbelief? Hmmmm...

And "FreeEnergy Truth" claims to be something more than just faith-based in its outright worship of Andrea Rossi and the eCat? Or is that "pure" science?

LMAO. Nice try Mr. Rossi.

Nov 09, 2011

"It's real." Really? How the hell do you know? Have you seen it/touched it/tested it? Until you have, it's called "wishful thinking".
I have not seen, touched, or tasted a black hole either. Regardless, I am quite convinced that they are real.

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to you. Maybe I feel there is hope for you yet.

You see, the difference between the black hole and the eCat is:

Unlike the eCat, the black hole has been studied by hundreds (thousands?) of scientific minds for generations. Millions (billions?) of dollars have been spent on equipment and research to provide us with even the rudimentary understanding we have today. So, despite the fact that you have not "seen" a black hole, you have certainly benefited from the scientific rigor that has proven its existence.

The eCat has none of this backing. So, while there's nothing wrong with optimism, claiming that "it's real" is just wishful thinking.

Nov 09, 2011
Been doing a few searches around the net and - this seems to be building up some (here it comes)- steam!
Obviously Mr. Rossi will need to make licensing arrangements in order make this go global with any speed, tho. There is obviously no way to meet the massive potential demand by building his own manufacturing org. Ramp up costs would be too exorbitant. And the ROI would just take too long (for a lender to handle).
That said - I hope this doesn't get swept under a rug because of factors like that (among others). I sincerely hope the "too good to be true" paradigm - isn't. and I wish Mr. Rossi all the luck he can handle.


Good points. Although, in terms of the manufacturing capability, if Rossi attracts the type of clients that one would expect -- military, heavy industry, governments -- their pre-existing relationships in rapid development and high tech manufacturing would make it a cinch. That part, at least, would work in his favor.

Nov 09, 2011
I see the mysterious Mr. Orac has been at it already today. I've been "1"ed by him 3 times today, in this thread alone...

Nov 09, 2011
Physicists have been wrong many times.
I grew up learning that ray-gus were immposible due to the inverse square law, and then along came coherent radiation.
Castle Bravo, a test of a hydrogen bomb, had a yield three times the predicted value - the physicists were wrong again. It is not hard to find example after example.

There is convincing evidence that the ECAT is doing what Rossi claims. There is no proof, but the preponderance of evidence is definitely in his favor. Too many physicists have come away convinced that this is not a fraud and that it must be a chemical reaction. I see all the evidence of a design and experiments that have the primary goal of avoiding thermal runaway, which is not something you would expect to see in a case of fraud.

Nov 09, 2011
There is no proof, but the preponderance of evidence

Could you specify what the difference between evidence and proof is as relating to Rossi's E-Cat?

Nov 09, 2011
There is no proof, but the preponderance of evidence is definitely in his favor. Too many physicists have come away convinced that this is not a fraud and that it must be a chemical reaction.


This is not a court, so "preponderance of evidence" isn't really important. But, I am curious as to what you think this "preponderance" may be. If you are referring to Rossi making claims on websites, blogs, and Youtube videos, that is neither evidence nor does it amount to a preponderance.


Nov 09, 2011
Too many physicists have come away convinced ...


Here's the list of witnesses to the Oct. 6th event:

Prof. Petterson Roland Uppsala University
Prof. Campari Enrico (Univ. Bologna)
Prof. Bonetti Ennio (Univ. Bologna)
Prof. Levi Giuseppe (Univ. Bologna)
Prof. Clauzon Pierre (CNAM-CEA Paris)
Dott. Bianchini David (Univ. Bologna)
Ing. Swanson Paul D. (Space and Naval Warfare Systems- US Navy)
Prof. Focardi Sergio (Univ. Bologna)
Prof. Stremmenos Christos (Univ. Atene)
Prof. Jobson Edward (Univ. Goteborg)
Ing. Vandevalle Koen (Belgio)
Dr Enrico Billi (Fisico, Ricercatore, CINA)

Now, how many of these have publicly stated that they are convinced? Beyond this list, how many others, in total? Finally, how many have been on-site in the past, and have come away distrustful? So, what we have is a very small handful of unknowns, most of whom are presumably friends of Rossi from Bologna, and even they aren't talking. Does that sound like "too many physicists" coming away convinced?

Nov 09, 2011
Strong nuclear forces cause nuclei to attract. This seen in classical mechanics as gravity. In quantum mechanics quarks attract. This attraction between these little particles is nuclei glue, gluons. This is strong nuclear force.

Protons have two positive quarks (up) and one negative (down). In order to balance out the cog like wheels (two quarks spinning in one direction and one in another) of atomic nuclei neutrons are acquired. Neutrons have two negative (down) and one positive (up) quarks.

An equal number of up & down quarks = good mechanics. When an imbalance is present one of two balancing mechanical processes occur. Fusion or fission.

Large atoms will drop out neutrons and protons (and photons and leptons) until they are balanced to having equal number of up and down quarks (cog wheels).

Small atoms at an either up OR down quark deficit (unbalanced mechanical cogs) will attract cogs to complete their mechanical structure.

There is no such thing as cold fusion same as there

Nov 09, 2011
is no such thing as cold matter. When matter is cold it doesnt exist.

A Bose Einstein condensate is matter approaching absolute zero. It is seen that particles come as one at near zero. When energy is zero particles are gone. No energy no particles.

However,

Fusion at all temperatures above absolute zero is possible given the right conditions. When you have an atom of 20 neutrons and 10 protons which are energetically held in place (either through use of vacuum or electromagnetism) and you inject 10 atoms with 1 proton each what takes place is fusion. The unbalanced atoms nuclei draws in protons which brings balance of up and down quarks. The unstable atom becomes stable and gives off instability.

I am certain that Rossi doesn't have a cold fusion reactor (no such thing) but I'm not sure that he doesn't have a cyclic reactor. Weak force to Strong force cyclic machine where fission starts fusion and then the fused atom fissess which once again starts fusion, and so on.

Nov 09, 2011
You can get any atom to disintegrate by blasting it with energy. All atoms are subject to getting blasted apart. Gamma radiation can destroy any formed particle.

Turn a switch and the nuclear fission/fusion reaction begins. 1 process causes the other and you have perpetual mechanics as long as the fuel source is present.

I'm not saying Rossi has, but such a machine is not only possible but such a machine has been already built, in a destructive form albeit, but the main thing is that the processes required for a such a generator have been done. Anyone know how an h-bomb works? It is a fission fusion process. The purpose of an h bomb is decontained destruction. The only difference is here the reaction is contained and used for cyclical power generation.

Nov 09, 2011
Interresting and quite logical points, Turitop. However, I am not quite convinced...

Nov 09, 2011
But, with all the secrecy abound his work this may all be just a chemical reactor. Hence, catalyzer. The machine could be producing heat by molecule formation and deformation. The heat exchange could be harnessed as energy.

Maybe his machine is just a chemical reactor.

Maybe he built the machine by accident.

Maybe someone should rip it open and take the veil off the mystery.

Nov 09, 2011
IMO for understanding of cold fusion the following experiment is important. In 2007 radio-engineer John Kanzius developed an apparatus for cancer treatment with polarized radiowaves in 13 MHz frequency range. During desalination tests of his device with tube filled by marine water (~ 3% solution of NaCl) he observed an evolution of hydrogen, which can be ignited by lighter.

http://www.youtub...lIm5a1Lc

What we are facing here is the splitting of hydrogen-oxygen bond in water with energy, which is roughly 10E 8 times lower, then it correspond the binding energy of -H-O- bonds. Just because this splitting occurs at much lower energy density than the cold fusion, it evaded the attention of mainstream science - but with respect to activation/actual energy ratio is as mysterious, like the cold fusion itself. During cold fusion the electrolysis of nickel or palladium is able to induce nuclear reactions, the activation energy of which is roughly 10E 8 times higher, too.

Nov 09, 2011
If we can admit, that the water molecule requiring the activation energy at least 1.65 eV is able to split with radiowaves with energy density 5.10E-8 eV (which is corresponding the energy density of 13 MHz radiowaves by E=hf formula) - then we shouldn't be surprised, when the nuclear fusion requiring ~10 MeV of activation energy becomes initiated with electrolysis or chemical reaction at 1 eV range. The ratio of energy density required and supplied remains the same in both cases and the Nature apparently allows it at the former case. It could indicate, we are facing deeper scale invariant effect here, which may repeat even at the smaller and larger scales under proper circumstances.

Nov 09, 2011
These professors have a reputation to protect and their reputation is very important and valuable to them. To allow their name to be broadcast and used in association with a fraud would be unthinkable. The fact that they have NOT spoken out speaks volumes.


Nov 09, 2011
To allow their name to be broadcast and used in association with a fraud would be unthinkable
A whole range of less or more objective reasons exists, why mainstream ignores the important findings - the more, the more groundbreaking these findings are. In dense aether model it's an analogy of surface tension effects: the less pronounced gradients can dissolve and merge with their environment easily, but the more pronounced they're, the more difficult is such spontaneous mixing. The more compact the sectarian society is, the more it behaves like boson condensate and black hole with respect to its environment. Which is why the mainstream science can absorb the new insights only slowly - or the total reflection will occur and new informations are simply ignored if not ridiculed whole generations. It means, the conservative approach of the mainstream physics is kinda physical phenomena independent to the well minded stance of isolated individuals and it should be handled so.

Nov 09, 2011
These professors have a reputation to protect and their reputation is very important and valuable to them. To allow their name to be broadcast and used in association with a fraud would be unthinkable. The fact that they have NOT spoken out speaks volumes.



Perhaps in your fantasy world. Beyond that, they are as likely as anyone else in the world to offer an opinion if asked by someone from the press. If Rossi has asked them not to speak -- and an NDA is possible -- then we're back to Rossi's word alone. So, you can't discount the legal ramifications of an NDA.

But, if that's not the case, and these people are genuinely satisfied, then why not come out and say so?

Finally, you appear to be unfamiliar with the multiple scientists over the last couple of years who have walked away from Rossi's performances and said publicly that something wasn't right. These are well documented.

Nov 09, 2011
The disbelief without evidence is science neither... It's simply belief in negative hypothesis - that's all. No less, no more.

You're absolutely right. That's why we have to keep an open mind about Santa Claus' existence. I mean nobody has as of yet proven that Santa Claus doesn't exist.

Nov 09, 2011
@Nerdyguy : The first customer is probably, as I had read somewhere, a research lab of US Navy. But ok for the first, or the second, but you think Rossi can live long and happily by frauding such a kind of customers?


That would not be for the first time. He conned DOD for years with his "super high efficient" thermoelectrics (with similar
scheme - public demonstrations, apparent presence of University people etc) until finally efficiency claims were
completely disproved when third party got samples. What was done to Rossi - nothing. He claimed that burned down factory
was able to make high efficiency material, but alas it is gone... See official report here:
http://oai.dtic.m...DA432046
Generally if you want a reasonable picture about Rossi,
check wikipedia article. It has all the facts and references.
http://en.wikiped...eneur%29


Nov 09, 2011
The pseudosceptics in this thread seem to forget that for this to be a fraud, Rossi would now have to have conducted more than 5 public demos without anything being spotted, be the world's greatest actor, and that at least 30 other people and companies would need to be in on the scam.

And to what end? A scammer who refusese to accept any investment? Don't make me laugh. Your scam accusations have no basis in fact and are even MORE outrageous than cold fusion being real.

Pfft..

Nov 09, 2011
The pseudosceptics in this thread seem to forget that for this to be a fraud, Rossi would now have to have conducted more than 5 public demos without anything being spotted, be the world's greatest actor, and that at least 30 other people and companies would need to be in on the scam.

And to what end? A scammer who refusese to accept any investment? Don't make me laugh. Your scam accusations have no basis in fact and are even MORE outrageous than cold fusion being real.

Pfft..


You are posting on the wrong website sir. Nobody here is stupid enough to fall for your scams. Free energy? Seriously... i cant believe people fall for that.

Nov 09, 2011
That's why we have to keep an open mind about Santa Claus' existence
IMO roughly 30.000 publications supporting the evidence of anomalous effects connected with LENR exist already.

LENR

Mr. Claus or string theorists would be happy if they would have collected such huge a range of indicia supporting their existence.

Nov 09, 2011
kaasinees: You said

"You are posting on the wrong website sir. Nobody here is stupid enough to fall for your scams. Free energy? Seriously... i cant believe people fall for that"

You are grossly mistaken. Fusion is not free energy, Rossi has NEVER claimed free energy. YOU are the one talking about free energy.

If Rossi is not accepting investment then please explain the alleged "scam" you are talking about. Does he hope to get some free lattes or cappuchinos out of this...maybe a sandwich or two? Certainly not any money. In fact he's spent millions of his OWN money so far.

Your "theories" are leakier than a sieve.

Nov 09, 2011
[continued]

from what *Rossi says* rather than any kind of journalistic process which would normally include identifying sources and/or your attempts to perform any fact-checking. You owe your readers better than this.

You cannot call Rossi a fraud and neither can I because we will never know Rossi's true intentions and we will never be able to prove a negative. But we can identify whether the facts he presents are consistent with the physical laws of the universe. I and two dozen contributors have done this in Report 3. Rossi's claims are inconsistent with the scientific evidence he has attempted to sell to the public, not for its money, but for their support to help him advertise his claim.


But does it really matter whether he's in it for the support or the money? Either way, he's deceiving people and making false claims.

Nov 09, 2011
The pseudosceptics in this thread seem to forget that for this to be a fraud, Rossi would now have to have conducted more than 5 public demos without anything being spotted, be the world's greatest actor, and that at least 30 other people and companies would need to be in on the scam.

And to what end? A scammer who refusese to accept any investment? Don't make me laugh. Your scam accusations have no basis in fact and are even MORE outrageous than cold fusion being real.

Pfft..


Random thoughts not by Jack Handy:

1) Can one not be an actual skeptic? Without the pseudo part I mean? And how would you differentiate?

2) Rossi has conducted ZERO public demos.

3) "30 other people and companies" is vague. You may be correct on the number of individuals, but even Rossi only claims one company representative. Yes?

4) Accepting development funds is not the only type of scam.

5) There are other reasons, beyond "scams", to falsify info.

Nov 09, 2011
@Kaasinees & others:

FYI - Free Energy TRUTH is the name of a blog. Maybe related to the individual posting here, maybe not. He didn't say.

Nov 09, 2011

ou're absolutely right. That's why we have to keep an open mind about Santa Claus' existence. I mean nobody has as of yet proven that Santa Claus doesn't exist.

Exactly correct sir!
No one has ever "proved" Santa to exist...or not..
But this is how science works. First you propose a theory, then you test. If the test backs the theory, then you proceed. However, positive results on your test does not necessarily "prove" your theory. It only shows that this particular test did not show the theory to be incorrect. NOTHING is ever "proven" 100%.

Nov 09, 2011
For a mostly fact free article this sure did in bring in new people. Physorg must be thrilled.

Why yes there are facts.

On October 28th, Rossi invited a few dozen people,
That appears to be true.

including a group of engineers from an unnamed potential US customer,
That is Rossi's Word = RW.

For the demonstration, Rossi connected dozens of modules
True assuming the reporters were actually there.

a nuclear reaction between hydrogen nuclei and nickel nuclei occurs,
RW

releasing heat that is used to turn water into steam.
Fact.

According to Rossi, each module received an initial energy input of 400 watts and produced a self-sustaining
RW

Altogether, he claims that the device produced an average of 470 kilowatts in the form of steam for more than five hours.
It produced steam is a fact. How much wasn't measured thus is not a fact just RW.>>


Nov 09, 2011
Impressed with these results, the unknown US customer accepted delivery of a commercial E-Cat device.
RW

Rossi has reported on his blog that he has sold more than two devices to other customers, which are also unnamed
RW

he says that the customers will reveal their identities when they choose.
RW.

there is still a lot of confusion surrounding the device itself.
Hey a fact.

Theres not enough information to fully discredit the E-Cat device, nor to fully support it.
Not quite a fact. FULLY didn't belong there. No support at all would fit the evidence.

The AP Technology Writer Peter Svensson was among the spectators at the October 28th demonstration, but so far the AP has not published any coverage of the event.
So why not?

Svensson responded, Stay tuned.)
My, that was helpful.>>

Nov 09, 2011
One piece of evidence that suggests Rossi sincerely believes in the E-Cat is that he reportedly sold his house two months ago in order to fund the ongoing development.
That is only evidence if there are records that confirm the sale and records of how the money was spent. Otherwise Rossi's word. Same for the claims of him spending millions of his money.RW

He has been working around the clock on the technology,
RW.

as he has previously said, that the final word will come from the customers who use the devices to generate electricity, not from his critics.
True. What customers? Any? RW

If he has customers, is there evidence to support that or just RW, has he been paid?

Ethelred

Nov 09, 2011
The true history of Rudolph and Santa. Its on the net so you know it's true. And it has Italians of questionable repute so it is relevant to this discussion.

Raging Rudolph
http://www.youtub...h6wGUUfE

Ethelred

Nov 09, 2011
Yet in-spite of the skeptical tone I read in the comments here; what I see is an impressive self funded engineering project that pushed the experimental lab-work in to a product with just a minimal amount of theory to back up the results. The theory(s) could be totally off base, but something is going on. These very smart guys have been working on this since 1995 and have been publishing their work. Why fake it in 2011? NiH is a strange metal system. You will enjoy the background research. It's real.

Nov 09, 2011
what I see is an impressive self funded engineering project
You only have Rossi's word for that. And considering that the funds came from a previous fraud I am not going to call it self funded. It was funded by previous victims.

The theory(s) could be totally off base, but something is going on.
Everything seen so far can be covered by chemistry or a simple heating element running on electricity.

These very smart guys have been working on this since 1995 and have been publishing their work.
Rossi's word and published in HIS journal.

It's real.
Except that he goes out of his way to avoid proving that. Let me know when there is actual evidence from a neutral source or even from someone RELIABLE that has bought the device and tested it for a reasonable length of time.

Ethelred


Nov 10, 2011
To Mr. Rossi I tend toward charitability. Yet as a test engineer something has always bothered me about the MW plant, and I first mentioned it a few weeks ago here on Physorg. NOW, I put this question to the assembled "experts":

Running several dozen steam generators into a header is no small control engineering problem. The back pressure differentials can be considerable.. even causing steam to flow in reverse, eventually leading to dangerous instability and explosion. I pointed out a few weeks ago that when the first videos and pictures of the MW plant were released, the space on the freight container wall for the control system was empty. Did this space ever get filled?

If Rossi did not solve this pressure differential nightmare, how did he get a few dozen parallel steam generators to operate in his lab?

Nov 10, 2011
MaryYugo is a fully paid up member of moletrap - a forum haven for pseudosceptics where the only game in town is James Randi, Richard (dogma) Dawkins, Penn and Teller (the less said the better), and any other establishment defenders you can think of.


Moletrap dues are about as much as the number of brain cells you used to write that -- zero.

While I think it's important to be sceptical, mindless pseudoscepticism is what we are being subjected to. Pseudoscepticism is defined as thinking that CLAIMS to be sceptical, but is actually faith-based disbelief. Pseudoscepticism may also be described as making pseudoscientific arguments in pursuit of a sceptical agenda.


I guess it's a lot easier to write meaningless garbage like that than it is to try refuting the rational view that Rossi could easily prove his device real and has always refused to do so.

I am amused by claims that he's not taken money. How would anyone know? Do you have the codes to his bank account? LOL!

Nov 10, 2011
The Rossi's experiments are apparently based on the previous experiments of Piantelli and Focardi. Even Krivit himself admits and accepts it.

http://blog.newen...antelli/

The whole point is, there exists a tension between Rossi and Piantelli, which probably dates from the 2008 year, when Rossi attempted to get independent patent to the Piantelli's (i.e. foreign) technology without any value added. Krivit supports Piantelli in this controversy probably because he is engaged in Piantelli's independent development of this technology. I've no great illusions about Rossi, but currently Andrea Rossi is the only person, who is willing to risk and able to invest his money into realization of cold fusion. Without him the cold fusion implementation would be delayed just another twenty years without problem. Which would be a great problem for whole human civilization. (downvoted with Joshua Cude)

Nov 10, 2011
@maryyugo : If YOU say Rossi is a scammer YOU must prove it! Otherwise, just wait and see!

Nov 10, 2011
I, for one, would like to get some real information about this device, and I'm willing to pay for that information. I'll donate $20 to the cause. Does someone want to organize this? Let's get 100,000 other interested people to make such a donation, and offer to buy an e-cat. We will define the testing procedure. As long as the test is not expensive, Rossi should be willing to provide us a machine. If it does not pass the test, we don't accept delivery. In that case we donate the money to a worthy cause, like public schools. If the device works, we can donate it to a school for heating purposes. I'm sure MIT would love to have a working Rossi reactor on their campus. I think both skeptics and believers could back this plan.

Nov 10, 2011
The whole point is, there exists a tension between Rossi and Piantelli, which probably dates from the 2008 year, when Rossi attempted to get...


Sexual tension? Could explain some of the hush-hush.

Nov 10, 2011
... -- and provide some decent testing on the eCat.

If five major research institutions test the device and receive similar results, this whole thing could be put to bed and we could potentially move on to understanding the science behind the phenomenon. Assuming it exists at all.

Can you explain or support your requirement of the number "5" ?
Just which orifice produced that alleged standard??


Nov 10, 2011
... -- and provide some decent testing on the eCat.

If five major research institutions test the device and receive similar results, t...

Can you explain or support your requirement of the number "5" ?
Just which orifice produced that alleged standard??



Sure. It was the number I could count using the digits on one hand.

I could have used any random number between 1 and 10, but I wanted to show how smart I was by using a number bigger than 3.

OK, seriously now, who gives a flying freak what number it is? At this point the number is ZERO.

So, I'd go for any combination of the list below testing this thing:

1) Oxford
2) Cambridge
3) Harvard
4) MIT
5) Stanford
6) Cal Tech
7) Rush Limbaugh's climate lab (haha, that one isn't real. I think)
8) Tokyo University of Science
9) University of Michigan
10) ETH Zurich

OK, pretty much out of room. Test on.

Nov 10, 2011
I'm sure MIT would love to have a working Rossi reactor on their campus.
If they would, why they didn't attempted to replicate Piantelli and Focardi cells, described in standard scientific journals, which are claiming the heat yield in range of 50 W/ccm of cell during last twenty years? The Rossi reactor is just scaled up version of the same cell.

My simple question is, why everyone is interested about undocumented device of Rossi and no one is interested about perfectly documented device described in scientific publications?

The interest about Rossi just demonstrates, how people actually trust in scientific publications, until they're not materialized in real device.

Nov 10, 2011
Funnily enough, at the moment, when this device is really constructed, the very same people are objecting instead, it's not documented in standard scientific way. But when they get this documentation printed at glossy paper of journal of Italian Academy of Science, they're simply ignoring it.

It's the same situation, like with 60 percent of Americans, who still don't believe in evolution despite of any evidence. Has some meaning to bother with such religious people? Of course not - and A. Rossi knows about it as well. The persuading of sceptics is as meaningful activity, as the persuading every second American about evolution. It's simply contra-productive waste of time - the more the people will be tried to persuade, the more they will remain convinced about their truth.

Nov 10, 2011
But when they get this documentation printed at glossy paper of journal of Italian Academy of Science, they're simply ignoring it.


Please clarify - which journal?

It's the same situation, like with 60 percent of Americans, who still don't believe in evolution despite of any evidence.


Totally off-topic, but interesting. I've heard this nonsense all my life. I wouldn't say there's any kind of scientific proof that 60% of Americans don't believe in evolution. It is, for example, taught in every school in America. On a personal note, I've known precisely two people in my entire life who have espoused such a view. An Aunt and Uncle in an ultra-orthodox religious sect. The whole "6,000 years" thing. Even their kids think they're nuts.

Nov 10, 2011
We don't know that is really constructed Zephir. Neither do you. All you have is Rossi's word about what the device is.

Now if you are so sure what it is and how it made AND you claim it is based on previous research THEN you could build your own. Well I suppose you could as I don't know about Czech patent laws but in the US that device is not patentable if it is just a scaled up version of previous stuff.

And the journal in question is Rossi's so it has no value in determining whether it has anything to do with reality. You are showing a remarkable lack of skepticism on this. Very non-scientific.

We MAY see what is going on here. Eventually but the previous bit of tech that Rossi pushed still looks like a scam and has never been properly tested either. And the money Rossi has spent on this came from that scam.

My question is

Why are so sure about it with absolutely NO verifiable evidence that it works?

Ethelred

Nov 10, 2011
Totally off-topic, but interesting. I've heard this nonsense all my life. I wouldn't say there's any kind of scientific proof that 60% of Americans don't believe in evolution.
The number is questionable as the usual claim is 55 percent and that may be due to badly written questions. However various religions are quite clear about it. including Southern Baptists, which 25 percent of Americans. There are MAJOR colleges in the South where the official stand is the world is 6000 years old.

I have had seen quite a few people that look at me as if I am an alien from another planet when I say there was no Great Flood. If you only know two people that think that way you live in a very unusual place.

Ethelred

Nov 10, 2011
However various religions are quite clear about it. including Southern Baptists, which 25 percent of Americans. There are MAJOR colleges in the South where the official stand is the world is 6000 years old.

I have had seen quite a few people that look at me as if I am an alien from another planet when I say there was no Great Flood. If you only know two people that think that way you live in a very unusual place.

Ethelred


I've lived and traveled all over the U.S. and Canada. For many years, I had to travel 5 days a week and, as a result of various "wine and dine" events, met a truly staggering number of people. It was awful. But, I digress.

From NYC to L.A., to the Midwest and my current home in Charlotte, NC -- home to some of the Bible Belt's biggest churches and most famous preachers -- I've never met anyone who believed this nonsense. On the other hand, most everyone I know is college educated and bright, or I tend to ignore them completely. lol

Nov 10, 2011
There are MAJOR colleges in the South where the official stand is the world is 6000 years old.

I have had seen quite a few people that look at me as if I am an alien from another planet when I say there was no Great Flood. If you only know two people that think that way you live in a very unusual place.

Ethelred


Now you're just blatantly making up things. There are no major colleges of any kind that espouse this belief.

There are indeed religious-specific colleges, like Bob Jones University, that hold this view. But no one would consider these to be "major" universities.

Not that I doubt that there are many people who hold this belief. Probably quite a few, in fact, who know enough to hold their tongue in public but don't mind filling out surveys showing their true feelings.

Nov 10, 2011
Why are so sure about it with absolutely NO verifiable evidence that it works
Because I've read thousands (..well, hundreds actually..) of articles about cold fusion - so I can see their common points, which cannot be faked intentionally. You cannot see it, if you did read (nearly) nothing about it.

Nov 10, 2011
Why are so sure about it with absolutely NO verifiable evidence that it works
Because I've read thousands (..well, hundreds actually..) of articles about cold fusion - so I can see their common points, which cannot be faked intentionally. You cannot see it, if you did read (nearly) nothing about it.


Yes, but you're not sticking to the point. He's not asking if you believe cold fusion is a possibility. He's asking what makes you think that Rossi's device works.

Nov 10, 2011
Now you're just blatantly making up things. There are no major colleges of any kind that espouse this belief.
Depends on your definition of major. I did NOT make it up.

http://www.nwcrea...ges.html

That least does not cover a number of colleges that prefer a Creationist view such as Wheaton College which insists all professors sign a statement that there was an Adam and Eve. Oddly enough there a lot of people that manage to believe the world is old and there is SOME evoluttion but they still believe in that Great Flood which is pretty darn fundamentalist.

Probably quite a few, in fact, who know enough to hold their tongue in public
No they speak right up. Maybe you aren't listening. It isn't like Sara Palin, George W. Bush and many other major politicians chose to be clear on this because it is anathema in public.

I only make things up for jokes.

Ethelred

Nov 10, 2011
@Nerdyguy : Despite reports, witnesses, pictures, movies, let's say that nobody (but Rossi himself) can be sure it works, as nobody can be sure it doesn't. But "it is possible that it is a scam" does not prove a scam!

Nov 10, 2011
- so I can see their common points, which cannot be faked intentionally.
Never claimed that were all faked. They usually have very little actual evidence of fusion going on.

My own personal discovery of the Internet was via Cold Fusion. A local Amiga bulletin board was copying alt.cold.fusion, or whatever the news group was, during the initial period. This was before the Web. Very exciting but nothing ever came of it except for more stuff that had no compelling evidence.

As Nerdyguy pointed out that was evasion and you are fond of that sort maneuver. Why do you think Rossi has the real thing?

Ethelred

Nov 10, 2011
Rossi has in my opinion created a power generator. If he hasn't all this publicity will turn around and bite him in the arse. How humiliating would it be for him to be found out as a fraud after multiple presentations of his device in action. He can't claim innocence by a fluke freak quantum fluctuation that allowed his unit to perform as he showcased it in numerous occasions.

This amounts to one of two: 1. His device works or 2. The whole thing is a hoax.

If hoax the truth will come out.

If it works we are left to decipher the processes that are taking place to cause power generation. On possibility is chemical fusing (molecular bonding), another is nuclear fusion (nuclei merging).

In my opinion this is not a hoax. His device is probably working. It wouldnt make any sense otherwise unless he is sick and twisted and unafraid of ridicule.

The device works IMO but I'm unsure whether it is chemical combustion or nuclear fusion power generation.

Nov 10, 2011
@Ethelred : There are two possibilities: Rossi has the real thing or he hasn't. In the second case, Rossi is a scammer. If somebody think Rossi is a scammer, should explain what strange kind of scam is he planning.

Nov 10, 2011
Nickel is magnetic which aids in molecular bonding but also in nuclear fusion. By rarifying charge of hydrogen (as in deuterium and tritium) you create a heavier atom (more strong force) while retaining the same nuclear charge (em repulsion of nucleus).

Nickel draws heavy hydrogen gravitationally and magnetically. When sharing valence nuclear forces act to hold hydrogen and nickel together. This lowers the amount of energy required to produce fusion. The magnetism and added mass of deuterium and tritium do half of the work to acquire fusion. A little force added in results in a lot of energy out.

Energy in < is less than < energy out and you have power generation.

Nov 10, 2011

"The device works IMO but I'm unsure whether it is chemical combustion or nuclear fusion power generation." - Turritopsis.

That said, if he has a system that produces more energy than it consumes, who CARES how it does it - let's just get it scaled up for planet wide distribution and implemetation!

5 years is all we have left, according to the IEA...

Nov 10, 2011
Now you're just blatantly making up things. There are no major colleges of any kind that espouse this belief.
Depends on your definition of major. I did NOT make it up.

http://www.nwcrea...ges.html

Ethelred


That was a list of both a) seminaries and bible schools, and b) schools that include creationist philosophy in some classes. Of course they would have some religious viewpoints.

NONE are major colleges.

MOST are colleges that are completely unfamiliar to most people, as seminaries tend to be.

GEOGRAPHICALLY, all areas of the U.S. were represented.

Major fail. I expected more from a self-professed genius like you.

Nov 10, 2011
No they speak right up. Maybe you aren't listening. It isn't like Sara Palin, George W. Bush and many other major politicians chose to be clear on this because it is anathema in public.

Ethelred


More opinion. No facts, no figures. You support your dubious assertion with more dubious assertions. Nice try.

Now, it's not entirely clear, were you trying to say Bush claims that the earth is 6,000 years old?

Nov 10, 2011
@Nerdyguy : Despite reports, witnesses, pictures, movies, let's say that nobody (but Rossi himself) can be sure it works, as nobody can be sure it doesn't. But "it is possible that it is a scam" does not prove a scam!


True.

Nov 10, 2011
@Ethelred : There are two possibilities: Rossi has the real thing or he hasn't. In the second case, Rossi is a scammer. If somebody think Rossi is a scammer, should explain what strange kind of scam is he planning.


As they say in the courts, "Asked and Answered"!

I've seen multiple posts, one by me, explaining this. Please go back and re-read them.

But, again, I would stress a point I made earlier. A "scam" or a "hoax" are not the only reasons why humans engage in falsehoods. For example, it's quite possible he's backed himself into a corner at this point. Admission of guilt would be ugly. Moving forward may be the only possible action, regardless of legitimacy.

Or, he may be telling the truth. I wish he'd help us figure that out.

Nov 10, 2011
Hush - who?
Rossi or Nerdyguy (since his was the last post before yours)?

Nov 10, 2011
He's not asking if you believe cold fusion is a possibility. He's asking what makes you think that Rossi's device works.
If you believe, the cold fusion developed with prof. Focardi works, why the Rossi's device cannot work? prof. Focardi was present at most public demonstrations as a technical expert.

http://newenergya...2011.jpg

Whereas cold fusion of hydrogen at nickel has been found with Piantelli accidentally, just Mr. Focardi was, who carried out most of systematic experiments with it.

Nov 10, 2011
@Ethelred : There are two possibilities: Rossi has the real thing or he hasn't. In the second case, Rossi is a scammer. If somebody think Rossi is a scammer, should explain what strange kind of scam is he planning.

Exactly! Now give me $100 and I will tell you where to find Santa Claus. And remember, if you don't you owe me an explanation!

Nov 10, 2011
NONE are major colleges.
Wheaton is a major college.

Of course they would have some religious viewpoints
Which is my point. They were not all Bible schools.

all areas of the U.S. were represented.
Yep. Right here in Southern California.

Major fail
Just because you think Wheaton isn't major does not that so. It is in the top 50.

I expected more from a self-professed genius like you
I never claimed that so that is crap just the rest of the post.

More opinion
If you don't know that Palin is a Creationist you are pretty ignorant about politics. Not a tragedy but you shouldn't discuss them in that case.

You support your dubious assertion with more dubious assertions. Nice try
Indeed it was perfect. Not my fault you don't know those things.

trying to say Bush claims that the earth is 6,000 years old?
Palin does. He supports Creationism in schools. Most of the Republicans running for President are also Creationist.

Ethelred

Nov 10, 2011
Indeed it was perfect. - Ethelred

Ah, ah, ah. Not so fast. Remember the quantum universe we live in - so such thing as perfect...:-)

Nov 10, 2011
Temple of shared knowledge. Templar. Old order conservation of the bible and god. Conservative. Republicans are the "new" world order of the old Templar. The church vision is to unidirectionally guide human beings, such as a shepherd. When sheep go their own way it is chaos for the shepherd.

Capitalism has morphed republicanism (the old Templars) into a society that doesn't need so much governance (shepherding) because everyone has the same goal anyways. Money. The new warriors of the church are still church goers, their way to happiness has changed from blood for the church to money for the church.

Nov 10, 2011
-Illumination. Eureka. Moment of pure free thought. The liberals are the free thinking illuminati (the illuminated ones). The illuminati come in many religious forms. Gnostics (believe a creator is probable), Agnostics (believe god is improbable), and those who never considered the notion. the illuminati do not believe in the churches writings and believe the temple (and the Templar) are fighting, (not for a wrong cause), unity is great in its unforced pure form, but the illuminati are concerned with the "literal" word of god as presented in the bible, which is a text written by man. The end is ok, the means aren't.

The temple wants everyone to think the same because it brings about peace. They're correct. No differences means no war.

The illuminati want peace to arise because we collaboratively bring in our individualized input. No forced thought.

Free thought and morality is the cure for humanity.

Nov 10, 2011
Nerdguy's greatest assert is humor. He can disarm an entire thread commentary with one sentence:

http://www.physor...use.html

"Sure, then explain the photo above."

Someone down-rated the humor with his other comments in mind.
Identifying the independent humor with past track record.


LOL. Made me laugh again at an old silly joke.

Nov 10, 2011
NONE are major colleges.
Wheaton is a major college.

Of course they would have some religious viewpoints
Which is my point. They were not all Bible schools.

You support your dubious assertion with more dubious assertions. Nice try
Indeed it was perfect. Not my fault you don't know those things.

trying to say Bush claims that the earth is 6,000 years old?
Palin does. He supports Creationism in schools. Most of the Republicans running for President are also Creationist.


Lighten up Frances!

You take yourself waaayyyy too seriously! And you have this pathological need to be right all the time. Maybe you should consider getting the chip off your shoulder?

Or, getting the 2x4 out from your nether regions? :)

Nov 10, 2011
@Objectivist : Sorry, Rossi didn't ask me anything and (maybe) can give me something WAY MORE important than Santa's address. Much more convenient than you.

p.s. You seems to still belive in Santa Klaus, I quit at age of 3. And I don't belive blindly in Rossi's E-cat, I HOPE it works, so you'll better do.

@Nerdyguy : Do you really think that "how you can say that Rossi has not already got money from some investor" or "he's backed himself into a corner at this point... Moving forward may be the only possible action" are valid reasons? If I had got money for something I know does not works, I would have leaved ASAP for another continent! And why do you think Rossi should go on on a dead way? To get where???

Nov 10, 2011
@Nerdyguy : Do you really think that "how you can say that Rossi has not already got money from some investor" or "he's backed himself into a corner.....If I had got money for something I know does not works, I would have leaved ASAP for another continent! And why do you think Rossi should go on on a dead way? To get where???


I never said he took money of any kind. I don't know any of the details. You asked why he might fabricate evidence. I gave you lots of reasons. You may be a very logical person, and live your life in a fashion that would make the motives of a criminal mind hard for you to understand.

But, the motivations that I and others mentioned above have all been real-life reasons people in academia (and outside it) have gotten in trouble over the years.

Anyway, we've been round and round on this. I already said I just don't know. I hope he's got something great. If he does, I'll celebrate. If he doesn't I'll say "told you".

Nov 10, 2011
@Nerdyguy : Ok, I don't understand the Rossi's (supposed) criminal way of thinking. I cannot understand, either, how could he fraud an university professor like Focardi who studied this kind of devices for all his life. Maybe you found the bigger scammer of the century, and you'll deserve a gold medal and a promotion. What I think is: very unlikely. I agree with your last consideration: If I am right, Rossi's e-cat works for real and we will resolve at once all our problems of energy shortage and pollution, and the world will be a better place. If you are right Rossi is a scammer, the e-cat is an hoax and the world will be as bad as today, or slightly worse. I'll prefer, while I can (and as I payed nothing for) to hope for the best.

Nov 11, 2011
Lighten up Frances!
Quit being a Richard.

You take yourself waaayyyy too seriously!
Nonsense I was taking YOU too seriously. Perhaps.

And you have this pathological need to be right all the time.
Also nonsense. But it is favorite claim of people that are wrong a lot.

Maybe you should consider getting the chip off your shoulder?
Maybe you should stop imagining things.

Or, getting the 2x4 out from your nether regions? :)
Lets see, you

Called me Frances for no discernable reason.
You accused me of not having a sense of humor. Which is also rubbish most liley due to highly selective perceptions carefully masking out my many joke posts.

You claim I have a chip my shoulder apparently based on my negative response to your being a prick.

Or, getting the 2x4 out from your nether regions? :)
And then that. All while pretending there is somehow humor in this.>>

Nov 11, 2011
I have noticed that assholes, after insulting people, tend to LIE that it was just a joke. When is was nothing of the sort.

I thank you for making your lack of manners so clear in that post.

I once tried to help you and you attacked me for it. You are just a load of ill humor masquerading as a joke.

Ethelred

Nov 11, 2011
from the article:
According to Rossi, each module received an initial energy input of 400 watts
You mean, received energy at the rate of 400 W? Or received 400 Wh of energy? Or...? (Get your units straight.)


1 watt = 1 joule / second...

Nov 11, 2011
I feel something is a little odd here... (I posted this last night and PHYSORG went down - for me at least - until today)
Anyway... One article written about a guy that MAY have come up with something that's been theorized and played with for 20 years or more(in his garage, essentually) - "cold" fusion. The article tone was sceptical and most of the commentary has been as well.
2 days later, no less than FIVE articles on "hot" fusion. All positively referencing all the new tools and discoveries of something we KNOW doesn't work yet, or when it ever will - at the cost of billions of dollars, along with millions of man hours.
This smell "Apple"y to anyobe else? (Jobs and Woz were initially pooh-pooh-ed)
Besides that - who cares HOW it works. If it does let's get cracking and build MILLIONS of 'em...

Nov 11, 2011
@Ehtelred:

First, you make a blanket statement that is ludicrous, opinionated, and based on no facts whatsoever.

I called you on it, and proved that you were clearly off-base.

But, you just can't let it go, can you? You have a bizarre, twisted, diseased little mind combined with an ego so fragile that you believe anyone with an opinion different from yours is a threat that must be squashed.

I would recommend heavy doses of lithium, and perhaps some counseling. It will help you with your anger, the chip on your shoulder, and your obvious oedipal complex.

You should also try using these public forums as an opportunity to hold rational, sane discourse which sticks to the topic at hand.

BTW, "Lighten up Frances" is a line from a movie. It was funny then, and exponentially more so in light of your little tantrum.

Good luck, I wish you success!

Nov 11, 2011
Anyone see the news release from Rossi re: the contract with National Instruments?

Interesting stuff.

Nov 11, 2011
the contract with National Instruments?
Apparently the managers at NI don't share the opinion of silly internet trolls.
who cares HOW it works. If it does let's get cracking and build MILLIONS of 'em
This is very scientific approach to the cold fusion effect.

Nov 11, 2011
Where do I go to invest in his company. While fools dance with pathoskeptics while the world burns,...I will make a tons of mooolaah and live like a king. Maybe become an Islamic and marry a harem of women to sooth the pain of looking out from my palace in some Magic Kingdom and seeing idiots in Europe cook themselves to death on imported petrol while dancing to the political tunes of their pushers.

Nov 11, 2011
First, you make a blanket statement that is ludicrous, opinionated, and based on no facts whatsoever.
I made a statement that fits the US. Of course its an opinion. Its based on facts.

I called you on it, and proved that you were clearly off-base.
No. You only think you did. As I pointed out Wheaton is a major college.

But, you just can't let it go, can you? You have a bizarre, twisted
Let nonsense go. Let that lie about me go. No. But you can't seem to stop trying to insult me instead of support yourself.

believe anyone with an opinion different from yours is a threat that must be squashed.
Why do you keep lying like that? What is your problem?

I would recommend heavy doses of lithium, and perhaps some counseling.
I would recommend a course in manners.

It will help you with your anger
Funny how angry irrational people make that accusation. I don't get angry about silly asses online. I gave that up a long time ago.
>>

Nov 11, 2011
and your obvious oedipal complex.
You clearly don't know the meaning of the word. But you do know how to lash out in an exceedingly irrational manner.

You should also try using these public forums as an opportunity to hold rational, sane discourse which sticks to the topic at hand.
I am not the one that took this off topic.

BTW, "Lighten up Frances" is a line from a movie.
It was intended to be annoying and to trivialize what I said.

It was funny then, and exponentially more so in light of your little tantrum.
You are the one that is throwing a tantrum. This is second one you have directed at me. As I pointed out already the first time was for trying to help. You have got some serious ego issues.

Good luck, I wish you success!
That is right up there with Oliver signing 'with kind regards' after he calls people commies or, my favorite, NASA shills.

Ethelred

Nov 11, 2011
"This is very scientific approach to the cold fusion effect" - rawa
I get your sarcastic tone, But, sheesh... lighten up Francis.:-) We're talking a potentially (very) bankable product, here, that is a win-win for all parties involved(Rossi and - all the rest of us)

Osirus - you don't need to become a Muslim(you couldn't have a drink, then) - just have the money and you'll have the harem...:-). However, don't throw caution to the wind - that's what a scam(if it is one) will cause...

Nov 11, 2011
One of the best stocked liquor cabinets that I ever saw in my life belonged to an Afghan Mujahedeen son of a Warlord general...and yes he was a Muslim. Anybody that thinks they really obey their holy book any more than we Christians often do just oughta look at some middle eastern students away from 'Daddy' at an American university...drink like fish, carouse like Romans at a orgy...more 'money than you know who', and that buys all kinds of women who should know better but have eyes blinded by money. Ain't prejudiced, just personal observation over years at several campuses. Took twelve years to get my Bachelors cuz had to work my own way through...no 'Daddy' to pay my way. Think I learned more that way, so even if I sometimes talk like a hick to make a point, I am not. On another tack(y), Rick Perry shows in his 'debate' why he wants to get rid of the 'deportment of Eddikation'. But of course that might be 'defecation of character' 4 da french cuff cowboy.

Nov 11, 2011
I'm witchya, O...
I know is off topic, but - If enough American voters WERE dumb enough to vote him into office - they'd be certainly deserving of what they get.

Nov 11, 2011

But clearly, we have from Rossi's own site, from Rossi himself that the reaction definitely produces Gamma, and from even the video that the Gammas are produced, but they do not "escape" because they are trapped by the metals, particularly the lead, and "thermalized"...

How is it being shielded? We have pictures of the array in his shipping container. Where is the gamma shield?

Nov 11, 2011
from the article:
According to Rossi, each module received an initial energy input of 400 watts
You mean, received energy at the rate of 400 W? Or received 400 Wh of energy? Or...? (Get your units straight.)
1 watt = 1 joule / second...
Yes, this is quite well known -- except, apparently, to the writer of the article. Re-read the phrase I quoted.

Nov 11, 2011
I have noticed that assholes, after insulting people, tend to LIE that it was just a joke. When is was nothing of the sort.

I thank you for making your lack of manners so clear in that post.

I once tried to help you and you attacked me for it. You are just a load of ill humor masquerading as a joke.

Ethelred
I am surprised oral roberts u is not on your list. They teach evolution do they?

Nov 11, 2011
We have pictures of the array in his shipping container. Where is the gamma shield?
The reactors itself have volume just about 50 ccm. The substantial volume of reactors represents the fiberglass insulation and encasing composed of 2 cm lead plate.

Nov 11, 2011
Even if this E-Cat turns out to be real, it is bad science.

Nov 11, 2011
I guess the same could be said of the internal combustion engine...

Nov 12, 2011
Even if this E-Cat turns out to be real, it is bad science.
E-Cat is no science, it's solely (result of) applied research. The science is what the rest of physicists should do about cold fusion, but what they aren't doing it, because many of them would lost their useless jobs.

Nov 12, 2011
BTW Cold fusion is not the only basic research, which scientists are ignoring heartily. Many overunity phenomena are effects of the same category. For example, recently Steorn revealed his new HephaHeat overunity technology:

http://pesn.com/2...hnology/

Now the question is, who of mainstream physicists will take care about this effect? If none, who will be responsible for it? A conspiracy of free-masoners hidden at the secret castle in south Bavaria? And how to avoid this situation again? And again?

Nov 12, 2011
>> Now the question is, who of mainstream physicists will take care about this effect?

Nobody, of course. Educating the public in basic thermodynamics is a task for schools when the kids are 10 years old or so. If you're grown up and still believe in things like "HephaHeat", another branch of science deals with it. Not physicists.

Nov 12, 2011
Every new fundamental finding essentially violates the existing laws in certain extent - this is why we are calling it fundamental. The cold fusion is thermodynamically feasible, but it violates the Coulombic barrier instead. If you want to study only phenomena, which are confirming existing laws, then you should become a historician and use a religious scolastic for explanation of your findings. But the Popper's methodology of science is based on falsification of existing theories.

Nov 12, 2011
The approach of dense aether theory is based on insight, the matter is metastable, until it's not composed of particles of certain size. The smaller droplets of matter tend to coalesce, the larger ones tend to fall into smaller pieces instead.

At the case of hot fusion such process appears natural for physicists, because it occurs at hight temperatures in reversible way, but under normal conditions this process is metastable and it requires high activation energy. But there are various trick, how to decrease the activation energy at least momentarily. In chemistry such tricks are called a catalysts.

Briefly speaking, if you don't know, which transmutation occurs during cold fusion or HeptaHeat technology, then you simply cannot talk about thermodynamics - only about problem with activation energy and overcoming of potential barriers. But these phenomena may not violate anything, what we actually know about thermodynamics.

Nov 12, 2011
For example, if you shake mercury inside of test tube, it will form a tiny droplets, which are merging spontaneously. Nothing actually strange is about it, huh?

But if you shake it pretty well, then you will get a black dust, composed of very tiny mercury droplets of nanometer size. Such dust will behave like any other dust of solid matter and it will become prone against spontaneous coalesce of mercury droplets, so you can consider it as analogy of observable matter, which is considered stable, despite it contains a huge amount of intrinsic energy stored inside it.

Now the question is - we have a mercury dust in test tube and we know, its formation required a lotta energy, which may be released back again during merging of droplets.

Hot to get such an energy back? It's not a philosophical or metaphysical question - it's solely a practical physical problem - which just requires the certain way of thinking, which doesn't depend on the knowledge of pile of math.

Nov 12, 2011
I can give you a hint.
For example, the formation of mayonnaise is based on the formation of such tiny droplets too. It just requires to add the substance, which decreases the surface tension of oil. The cholesterol inside of egg yolk serves here as a soap and it promotes the formation of stable emulsion.

If you want to release the energy from mayonnaise back again, you'll just need to add another chemical, which will increase the surface tension of oil surface again. For example, you can add an alcohol to the mayonnaise, which will displace the cholesterol molecules from the surface of oil droplets. And the mayonnaise will separate into mixture of oil and watter again.

Nov 12, 2011
Sorry if this might duplicate a previous item here, but here is the NI-related article:
http://pesn.com/2...ontrols/

Nov 12, 2011
Sorry if this might duplicate a previous item here, but here is the NI-related article
Why not to search for National Instruments words in this page first? This is just a problem with many physicists - they're willing to repeat the same research again and again, because they're not bothering to read existing information about it - and they can even get some money for their ignorance, because they're doing something individually. It's estimated, more than sixty percent of scientific research is redundant, simply because the physicists cannot manage the informational explosion. They do prefer to introduce another redundancy into it instead, until money of tax payers are going.

Nov 12, 2011
There is a slight problem with the claims of National Instruments BUYING and e-cat device:
Today, Andrea Rossi signed an agreement with National Instruments to have them make all of the instrumentation for the E-Cat cold fusion plants, which began to be sold commercially on October 28 with the first 1 MW plant successfully tested in Bologna.
I don't see anything on that page that says NI is buying anything for Rossi. It says ROSSI is buying from NI.

So why the woop and hollering as if Rossi has a client in NI?

And Zephir the reason to look on the web is find out what actually happened as opposed to getting more hype that doesn't match the reality.

Ethelred

Nov 12, 2011
I don't see anything on that page that says NI is buying anything for Rossi. It says ROSSI is buying from NI.
Just on the contrary. If Rossi invests into his technology in such generous way, it just serves as an indicia, he is not developing a scam, or he would just decrease his profit at the case of fraud. In addition, he's hiring employee around Miami (Fl), Boston (Ma) and Manchester (N.H.). Would a real fraud invest into people in this way? At the case of failure he just would increase the risk of legal action from the side of these people.

You apparently never think in such way, do you?

Nov 12, 2011