Italian company to sell portable cold fusion plant deliverable next year

Nov 28, 2013 by Bob Yirka weblog
Credit: ECAT

(Phys.org) —Italian company Energy Catalyzer (shortened to ECAT) has announced that it is right now taking preorders for its ECAT 1MW portable cold fusion plant. Founded by Italian scientist Andrea Rossi, the plant has the scientific community shaking its collective head—it's never been peer reviewed and neither Rossi nor anyone else at ECAT has ever published a single paper regarding cold fusion or describing how the plant works.

Cold fusion, is of course, a theoretical means of harnessing enormous amounts of energy by fusing atoms together. Normal fusion is what powers the sun, but it of course, is very hot. Scientists have been working for years to come up with a way to cause fusion to come about in a way that doesn't require a huge amount of heat—thus the name . Unfortunately, to date, no one has been able to figure out a way to do it—no one but Rossi, that is, if his claims turn out to be true.

Rumors of how ECAT's plant works suggest it's little more than a simple tube that utilizes an unknown nano-sized nickel type catalyst. When hydrogen is added, heat and perhaps copper, is produced. According to ECAT, the plant does nothing more than produce heated water and/or steam. Those that purchase the plant are free to attach it to a turbine to create electricity. The plant is small—just 20x20x1 centimeters, but each unit can be stacked. The company has put 106 of the units in a shipping container and all together they make up the ECAT 1MW Plant, selling for a cost of $1.5 million to anyone that wants and can afford one.

Read more:

There have been various sightings of ECAT's technology, in 2011 for example, a select group of scientists was invited to witness a prototype in action. Reports from the demonstration suggest the prototype was able to generate 470 kw before a system fault caused the test to be stopped. That was enough apparently, for DARPA, which has reportedly already preordered one of the plants.

The portable plants are expected to be ready for delivery in approximately four months, which should end the mystery. If Rossi has succeeded where so many others have failed, he and his colleagues will be cheered and likely awarded a Nobel Prize. If the debut is a flop, however, it will be more than just an embarrassment to him and his company, it will be a very sad day for science and perhaps another indication that cold fusion, simply cannot be done.

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Doug_Huffman
2 / 5 (22) Nov 28, 2013
Energy Catalyzer has well taken its instruction by Sancho PONZI of windmill fame. Now Don Quixote plays the Emperor with new clothes - and no little children to tell the truth.
Aaron1980
2.5 / 5 (22) Nov 28, 2013
I hope it works ...
cmn
3.2 / 5 (9) Nov 28, 2013
Why not patent the tech?
Maggnus
3 / 5 (16) Nov 28, 2013
I too hope it works. Guess we'll soon see.

I imagine Zephyr is in the throes of ecstasy!
NOM
2.8 / 5 (11) Nov 28, 2013
I imagine Zephyr is in the throes of ecstasy!
If it works, maybe the mods might let zeph post again.
Tangent2
2 / 5 (18) Nov 28, 2013
This news is a day old, read about it yesterday.
I think one of the take away points here is not how does it work, or why does it work, but just simply: Does it work? There has been an independent review done on this by other scientists and they have confirmed the results, but still cannot explain the process since an element of how it works had not been disclosed to them, and probably for good reason, patents.
This independent review showed that it did as advertised, and produced the heat signature that was mentioned from the initial review, so it work as expected.

Now the bottom line, if it works and it produces more energy than other conventional technologies, then who cares how it works! Does it emit harmful radiation? Does it produce the amount of power advertised? These questions should be the focus in determining if this is a technology that you may want to invest in.

Skepticism is one thing, Ignorance of the facts is a completely other matter.
AlainCo
1.4 / 5 (18) Nov 28, 2013
This announce is quite old, probably from 2012.
It is only pre-order, and the developement of the reactor , certification, industrializations, takes time...
It seems that it won't be before one more year (at least 6 month for next long duration test, plus Murphy law)

the real news is that Elforsk have publicly conformed the test was positive, and is even defending the test solidty in their Corporate magazine "Elforsk Perspektiv 2013 nr2"

their recent report on LENR written for Vattenfall, is not much (my LENR Executive summary for policy maker, is more detailed on recent events... and avoid doubtful LENR claims)...

the way the critics against recent Elforsk test of E-cat by 7 physicist, were accepted easily is shocking for self-pretended skeptics, since they are, if not ridiculous and false, at least hypothetical and shallow.
It make me expect that the doubt will last as long as it is possible without my kids of 5 able to bash the skeptics.1-2 more years, until market reach.
betterexists
1.5 / 5 (18) Nov 28, 2013
China's Total power production was 900 GW recently;
So, If U.S pays back its $2 Trillion Loan to China now....It by using this Cold Nuclear Fusion Tech. can raise its Power capacity by another 1333GW right away!
WOW!
betterexists
1.5 / 5 (18) Nov 28, 2013
About 5 yrs back, similar doubts were raised over Quantum Computer by a Canadian company.
In last 1 month it was revealed that there are 2 owners of that product in this world....1 of them being NONE OTHER THAN Google itself!

Same thing should be done for Embryonic Stem Cells also!
betterexists
1.6 / 5 (16) Nov 28, 2013
From 10 KW 2 yrs ago to 470KW Today...is really a Big Deal....
Particularly when No one else is doing it in this entire world!
WillieWard
1.5 / 5 (16) Nov 28, 2013
I hope it works, but if not, there is also the aneutronic fusion our best hope for a really clean and safe energy.
VendicarE
4.1 / 5 (12) Nov 28, 2013
There is nothing new here. Martini and Rossi have been trying to flog their 1 MW plant for the last 1.5 years.

I wonder if he has found any suckers....

Rossi said that due diligence on potential customers is the main means of protecting the IP — in other words, if they don't trust you completely, you won't be able to get your hands on a plant.
VendicarE
4.6 / 5 (10) Nov 28, 2013
A discussion thread on the Swedish Energikatalysatorn forum indicates that Gerd Neumann, a German with a distributor license for the E-Cat has given up on the project. The thread includes this (tranlsated) message that Neumann apparently posted on Facebook.

"Well, I am tired for cold fusion and Andrea Rossi! "
Pepperi
1.6 / 5 (16) Nov 28, 2013
It's an extremely interesting project and I really hope it is not a scam of some sort. I went trough some published articles and found a nice review article published in a peer-reviewed journal. It's all about the experimental science behind this Low Energy Nuclear Reaction. I'd never tought that an electrochemist would save the world!It's totally worth reading.

http://www.lenr-c...okat.pdf

____________
Nov 28, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
_ilbud
5 / 5 (4) Nov 28, 2013
I hope they take a lot of dunces to the cleaners, they should never have had the money in the first place.
Humpty
2.4 / 5 (19) Nov 29, 2013
By combining the super powers of jesus, mohammad, zeus, and Kaptain Krypton - they have discovered INFINITE POWER.

ONE teaspoon of ordinary sea water can power the entire planet for a million years....

Etc..

VendicarE
4.4 / 5 (9) Nov 29, 2013
The truth is, I am sympathetic to claims of fusion in a metal lattice for a variety of reasons, the principle of which is that I can see how pumping hydrogen into a metal lattice will cause defects in the lattice and crack induce charge separation will be capable of accelerating charged protons to very high energies over very short distances.

However, Rossi has a history as a con man and his actions smell like those of a con man.

Excess heat in the quantities he claims are easy to demonstrate.

Just drop off a working unit to Cal-Tech and see how fast the effect is verified.
Kedas
1.6 / 5 (12) Nov 29, 2013
How long before it runs empty, maintenance, stability, total energy in 1 cell?
Many details aren't given that wouldn't reveal the secret of how it works.
Gigel
5 / 5 (5) Nov 29, 2013
Why isn't he selling just 1 module at 10 kW for 15 000 $? That way many people could afford one and verify it.
Max_S
4.5 / 5 (8) Nov 29, 2013
Indeed It is an old story. In brief: The above mentioned "independent test" was not really independent. The test was taken on the "inventors" premises, probably using his equipment, and supervised by his associate. Only the energy balance was measured, but not the underlying process. It cannot not be ruled out that the energy input could have been manipulated.There is not a single known customer after 2 years of "sales". Meanwhile even the distribution licencees got terminated, some have started litigation. Allegedly a new "secret partner" in the US has "other ideas" how to sell. But nobody has a clue who that is.
The scientific basic is highly questionable and unconfirmed.
See http://blog.stepc...c-basis/
gmokhin
4.3 / 5 (7) Nov 29, 2013
Gigel, probably because his only hope left is to sell 1 useless module for 1.5m $ and retire once and forever.
betterexists
1.1 / 5 (18) Nov 29, 2013
There is nothing new here. Martini and Rossi have been trying to flog their 1 MW plant for the last 1.5 years.

I wonder if he has found any suckers...."

Same thing happened with Private U.S Space Missions.
betterexists
1 / 5 (18) Nov 29, 2013
Growth is Growth.
Abundant Energy is NOT for making more throwaway waste.
Rather it is meant to make things for which there are limitations forbidding their production...For Eg., Quantum Computer; Free Education until Ph.D Degrees with Abundant Food, Shelter and other needs (cars plus fuel etc).
Research & Production in so many fields are LAGGING for want of Money/Energy which ARE SYNONYMS!
casualjoe
3.4 / 5 (8) Nov 29, 2013
If you believe this is real then you are destined to get ripped off for the remainder of your life, unlucky, its painfully obvious that this is a scam but still very interesting from a societal and psychological point of view.
betterexists
1 / 5 (19) Nov 29, 2013
There is NO need to Shackle ourselves unnecessarily.
Now NASA is sending Plants onto the Moon to see if they can grow there. If it is successful...we can always fall back on the nearby Moon for Various things namely Resources & Area.
We can Dump All this Ice from Alps & Himalayas onto the Moon.
That is where availability of unlimited amounts of energy becomes useful. We can build million times bigger space shuttles & Rockets to move onto various planets & their satellites without any worry about energy.
Nuclear Fusion at Intra-Atomic level is UNLIMITED. Sky is the Limit!
betterexists
1.2 / 5 (17) Nov 29, 2013
It is not an individual that is getting ripped off.
Gigantic Organizations with Huge Funds to the tune of only $1.5M to start with!
betterexists
1 / 5 (18) Nov 29, 2013
There is NO need to Shackle ourselves unnecessarily.
Now NASA is sending Plants onto the Moon to see if they can grow there. If it is successful...we can always fall back on the nearby Moon for Various things namely Resources & Area.
We can Dump All this Ice from Alps & Himalayas onto the Moon.
That is where availability of unlimited amounts of energy becomes useful. We can build million times bigger space shuttles & Rockets to move onto various planets & their satellites without any worry about energy.
Nuclear Fusion at Intra-Atomic level is UNLIMITED. Sky is the Limit!


Once it is done...We can rip off Iceless Alps & Himalayas little by little for building more long lasting residences with stone which are fireproof and save on cement etc.,
There will be less Flooding & thus loss of life & inconveniences can be minimized!
betterexists
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 29, 2013
Gigel, probably because his only hope left is to sell 1 useless module for 1.5m $ and retire once and forever.

He can be forced NOT to use that money until we are satisfied. Such an agreement can always be made with a Bank!
If it Doesn't work....Then, he Cannot Touch the Money!
Some Lady will come in the Future & make a Far Better Product for the World.
Gerrit 2
1.4 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
why can't anyone do a bit of fact checking like energy giant Vattenfall did.

Read their report: http://elforsk.se...d=13_90_

They do not think the ecat is a scam. They have funded a validation and are funding a follow up long term validation run.
betterexists
1.2 / 5 (18) Nov 29, 2013
Gigel, probably because his only hope left is to sell 1 useless module for 1.5m $ and retire once and forever.

He can be forced NOT to use that money until we are satisfied. Such an agreement can always be made with a Bank!
If it Doesn't work....Then, he Cannot Touch the Money!
Some Lady will come in the Future & make a Far Better Product for the World.

Rossi is trying to liberate us from eating up Resources...Truth will be found out by Huge organizations with big budgets. $1.5M is Pittance for Many of Them. DARPA that came up with our Internet is testing it. Production is better than Eating All up!
It also matters what kind of production it is.
Gerrit 2
1.6 / 5 (16) Nov 29, 2013
If you believe this is real then you are destined to get ripped off for the remainder of your life, unlucky, its painfully obvious that this is a scam but still very interesting from a societal and psychological point of view.


Energy giant Vattenfall doesn't agree with you. It is painfully obvious that either you or their R&D department is wrong.
betterexists
1 / 5 (15) Nov 29, 2013
Gigel, probably because his only hope left is to sell 1 useless module for 1.5m $ and retire once and forever.

He can be forced NOT to use that money until we are satisfied. Such an agreement can always be made with a Bank!
If it Doesn't work....Then, he Cannot Touch the Money!
Some Lady will come in the Future & make a Far Better Product for the World.

Rossi is trying to liberate us from eating up Resources...Truth will be found out by Huge organizations with big budgets. $1.5M is Pittance for Many of Them. DARPA that came up with our Internet is testing it. Production is better than Eating All up!
It also matters what kind of production it is.

Mind it. It is Clean Energy! No Pollution whatsoever.
Gerrit 2
1.4 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
A discussion thread on the Swedish Energikatalysatorn forum indicates that Gerd Neumann, a German with a distributor license for the E-Cat has given up on the project. The thread includes this (tranlsated) message that Neumann apparently posted on Facebook.

"Well, I am tired for cold fusion and Andrea Rossi! "


He also mentioned that we'll get his licencing fee refunded.

How is the supposed scam ever gonna work if Rossi gives the money back ?

It can't be a licencing fee scam that way.
betterexists
1 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
Why he does not want to patent it?
Obviously he is for Humanity at Large.
He sold his house to fund it, Right?
He wants various organizations to test it, improve it & he still gets his Nobel Prize because he started it all.
Time will Tell how it is going to go.
He wants wide publicity with just recouping his investments in money & effort.
If someone had done it in U.S....The comments would not have been like here. History is working against him. Well, Wait & See. It could be a scam or not!
betterexists
1 / 5 (16) Nov 29, 2013
Why isn't he selling just 1 module at 10 kW for 15 000 $? That way many people could afford one and verify it.

It is NOT meant to be bought by Individuals.
He needs money to advance his field himself...of course by other buyers too, since it is not yet patented.
It may be a scam.
May not be a scam also.
betterexists
1 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
If DARPA finds it useful...it will become its Sole Proprietor!
In some 80's prof. guy and by also california prof. khan's buzz in this field is well known.
It seems greedy DARPA intruded in both!
casualjoe
4 / 5 (6) Nov 29, 2013
I want clean energy as much as the next person, Ive transformed my lifestyle to consume less and feel much better for doing so, both internally and with how i get to spend my days. But yes Vattenfall were indeed fooled like niave children, so keep waiting for rossy to give you your energy so you can carry on living the glut life you hold so precious.
betterexists
1.3 / 5 (16) Nov 29, 2013
If DARPA finds it useful...it will become its Sole Proprietor!
In some 80's prof. guy and by also Tennessee prof. Rusi Taleyarkhan's buzz in this field is all well known.
It seems greedy DARPA intruded in both!


It is the people at large that are missing out the Fruits which are thus denied to them!
betterexists
1.3 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
There is NO need to Shackle ourselves unnecessarily.
Now NASA is sending Plants onto the Moon to see if they can grow there. If it is successful...we can always fall back on the nearby Moon for Various things namely Resources & Area.
We can Dump All this Ice from Alps & Himalayas onto the Moon.
That is where availability of unlimited amounts of energy becomes useful. We can build million times bigger space shuttles & Rockets to move onto various planets & their satellites without any worry about energy.
Nuclear Fusion at Intra-Atomic level is UNLIMITED. Sky is the Limit!


Once it is done...We can rip off Iceless Alps & Himalayas little by little for building more long lasting residences with stone which are fireproof and save on cement etc.,
There will be less Flooding & thus loss of life & inconveniences can be minimized!

We can DUMP ALL THE TRASH on Earth onto MOON!
Our Future Generations can always get it all back as Antique if so desired.
betterexists
1 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
Read Fleischmann–Pons claims of nuclear fusion at room temperature.
betterexists
1 / 5 (15) Nov 29, 2013
Google search for Cold Fusion on Wikipedia.
Cold fusion gained attention after reports in 1989 by Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, then one of the world's leading electrochemists that their apparatus had produced anomalous heat ("excess heat"), of a magnitude they asserted would defy explanation except in terms of nuclear processes.
betterexists
1 / 5 (15) Nov 29, 2013
Google search for Cold Fusion on Wikipedia.
Cold fusion gained attention after reports in 1989 by Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, then one of the world's leading electrochemists that their apparatus had produced anomalous heat ("excess heat"), of a magnitude they asserted would defy explanation except in terms of nuclear processes.

A small community of researchers continues to investigate cold fusion, now often preferring the designation low-energy nuclear reactions (LENR).Some have reported that under certain conditions they observe excess heat effects by interaction of hydrogen or deuterium with palladium, nickel or platinum. Since cold fusion articles are rarely published in peer reviewed scientific journals, the results do not receive as much scrutiny as more mainstream topics. All of this on Wikipedia.
Conspiracies Abound!
bearly
1.3 / 5 (6) Nov 29, 2013
I will be astonished if it works and if it ever is released for sale at a reasonable price. The oil companies will bury this as fast as they can.
ForFreeMinds
1.7 / 5 (15) Nov 29, 2013
The reporters need to follow the money rather than be unpaid PR spokesmen used to promote this fraud by publishing this article.

Where is the Italian company getting its money to develop this product, who are the major stockholders of the company and what is their background history? Mentioning Rossi's name is insufficient. Aren't the Italian authorities also interested, or do they not prosecute Italians defrauding foreigners?
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (7) Nov 29, 2013
Next year? Again? Didn't they sell one last year 'next year'...and the year before...and the year before...

According to our local cold fusion guy aren't there supposed to be many systems in operation?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
From e cat world:

"For some reason, there has been a surge in interest over the last couple of days in a page on Ecat.com where the 1MW low temperature E-Cat reactor is listed for sale. As I mentioned yesterday, this page is not new — in fact it has been on Ecat.com for about a year and a half — but for some reason the link has been picked up by numerous blogs as if it is a new development."

-Antialias keeps repeating questions which have already been answered. This is unscientific and disingenuous. AA knows this but doesn't care as it is more fun to pooh-pooh.

The 1 mw unit is undergoing long term testing and validation. The independent 3rd party review was completed months ago and it was very favorable.

Planes flew for a long time before we had aeronautical engg. Rossi doesn't need the physics to sell units, just to get a US patent, which is why he's not being more open and candid. Apparently it is easy to reverse-engineer.
QuixoteJ
1.3 / 5 (13) Nov 29, 2013
Please be finally real!
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (13) Nov 29, 2013
Italian company
It's not an Italian company.
money, stockholders, history
You ask these questions like you think there aren't answers, or that the answers would expose a hoax.

Why dont you go to e cat world and find out for yourself?
ryggesogn2
1.2 / 5 (17) Nov 29, 2013
"it's never been peer reviewed and neither Rossi nor anyone else at ECAT has ever published a single paper regarding cold fusion or describing how the plant works."

Why should they?
maryyugo
2.3 / 5 (15) Nov 29, 2013
Absolute, total and complete nonsense! The author should be ashamed of this crap. First of all DARPA has never said they ordered anything from Rossi. If you claim they did, please provide a contact person or a link! What execrable "journalism"!

Second, Rossi has never sold anything or properly test or had test anything.

Rossi is a convicted felon who devastated the budget of an Italian province with a bogus scheme to convert trash to energy (Petroldragon). This cost them more than $40 million to clean up. He was also arrested for illegal transactions in gold and money laundering. Convicted on some charges and acquitted because of technicalities on others. He ripped off the DOD with a bogus program to make high efficiency thermal to electric devices. His claimed prototype was never properly tested and almost certainly did not work yet DOD squandered $2 million on this boondoggle.

Rossi lies fluently about his work, claiming all sorts of things which are not possible.
maryyugo
2.1 / 5 (13) Nov 29, 2013
If anyone doubts what I wrote above, check this:

http://newenergyt...ne.shtml

betterexists
1 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
Ohio based Rossi's consulting firm, Leonardo Technologies, Inc. (LTI) says "Our clients include: U.S. Department of Energy, National Energy Technology Laboratory, U.S. Department of the Interior, U.S. Department of Defense:,Construction Engineering Research Laboratory, U.S. Department of Agriculture,U.S. Environmental Protection Agency,Various State Governments,Private Companies,Non-Profit Groups" Also Google for Andrea Rossi (entrepreneur) on Wikipedia.
ChuckG
1.2 / 5 (12) Nov 29, 2013
It should also be observed that in the last year or so, Mr. Rossi, according to public records, has been investing in Florida real estate. At last tally, he owns about 15 properties.

Whether or not this has any bearing on his energy catalyzer operations is speculative, but worthy or note.
betterexists
1 / 5 (13) Nov 29, 2013
There is a mention of Rossi in http://coldfusion...formula/
RealityCheck
1.8 / 5 (16) Nov 29, 2013
Seems nowadays there's more than 'one born every minute'. His excuse for not making his 'process' public was that the patent office refused to even assess his application because such things (ie, over-unity devices, perpetual motion, etc) were considered impossible. If he was fair dinkum, letters of testimony from all his allegedly 'independent scientific observers' confirming his 'process' really works as claimed would be sufficient to get the patent office to consider it. He has not done this, so he is a scammer pure and simple. Any weasel excuses not to put up or shut up, and for not making such a tremendous 'process' public (to prevent further deterioration of climate and pollution and cost-pressures and environmental damage etc) are not credible/justifiable under any circumstances. Besides, if the 'process' was real, it would have been re-discovered and developed by many others by now. He is a crook. Anyone who believes his con deserves to lose their shirt. Move on, suckers. :)
RealityCheck
1.6 / 5 (17) Nov 29, 2013
And I personally have identified/contrived more than one way of faking his 'demonstrated' net-energy-creation (by microwave and ultrasound etc etc input energy from outside the 'room' and directed/focused onto the 'device'; plus chemically 'doped' fuel sources as his 'raw material inputs'; hidden connections to power supplies etc etc). There are more ways than one to make the sleight of hand that every con-man uses to convince the suckers. How long before you wise up, suckers? No wonder internet scammers and fishers are making fortunes from all the gullibles born every minute. Seems the freedom of information age and instant global communications is no proof against being scammed by the same old style conmen and dodges. What does it take to cure your gullibility, suckers? Move on and put your money into something worthwhile before you lose the lot. :)
baudrunner
2.2 / 5 (17) Nov 29, 2013
Plenty of chemical reactions release enough heat to power a small turbine. The problem with catalysts is that they get depleted eventually. Rossi's power plant is probably real, but I can still see him laughing all the way to the bank when his customers suffer power failures a few weeks after purchase.
betterexists
1.2 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
Proof is in the pudding;
Let big organizations with their knowledgeable/eminent staff buy them but making sure that money reaches his hands only after obtaining proof!
Quite simple.
Let Individuals not lose their hard earned money. Once they get green signal they too can dive in.
4 more months are not 4 decades or centuries!
Egleton
1.1 / 5 (13) Nov 29, 2013
Imagine what Pons and Fleischmann's experiment did to the Almighty Petro-Dollar.
Was there a reaction?-You bet. Swift and Brutal.

All the Declarative statements on this thread are a result of the example set by the Pentagon.
Cowards all!

But not All.
Great progress is being made in the empirical evidence and in the the supporting theories.
The reporter should not have made assumptions. Nuclear fusion has been ruled out. No-It is Not nuclear fusion. But there Is transmutation.
Egleton
1 / 5 (14) Nov 29, 2013
Oh! And another thing. Rossi is only selling the energy, not the device. How does one twist that into a scam?
No energy=no money.
Maggnus
1 / 5 (1) Nov 29, 2013
Thanks MaxS, that was an excellent summary.
topkill
2.1 / 5 (16) Nov 30, 2013
LOL, LOLOL,LOLOLOLOL, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL LMMFAO!!!!!!

There is a sucker born every minute!!!!!!! You guys crack me the F up!!!! Look, it's magic!!! It's free money!!! It growns on trees!!! It's perpetual motion!!!!!!

STOP!!! You're killing me here! LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
topkill
3.3 / 5 (10) Nov 30, 2013
Maybe the same aliens that built the pyramid gave Rossi his secret energy formula! Or maybe it was the great god Anubis...when he threw up a hairball...from licking his balls!!!

Stop, for the love of God, PLEASE STOP!!! You're killing me with this crap!!!! LMMFAO!!!!
megmaltese
2 / 5 (16) Nov 30, 2013
So he finally managed to choose the best way to make a mount of money without working: sell one unit of unknown technology without patenting anything.
This is because when the unit will stop working (given that it will work for a limited amount of time) he cannot be sued, because he stated that even him doesn't know HOW that works.
He's just selling "something" at 1.5 million euros, if you spend those money for something that not even the producer knows what it is, you can't sue him for sure.

Good luck to the buyers (probably indian or chinese) LOL.

Anyone reading here: I am italian and I deeply know italians, they are the best cheaters in the world, Berlusconi is just a fantastic example of the depth this population can reach in this matter, and just to throw another name in there, also the Ponzi Scheme was invented by an italian. It's probably in our DNA... so watch out, this cold fusion rubbish will be source of big laugh!
megmaltese
1.3 / 5 (12) Nov 30, 2013
Egleton... at least READ that article: "The company has put 106 of the units in a shipping container and all together they make up the ECAT 1MW Plant, selling for a cost of $1.5 million to anyone that wants and can afford one."
Damn hell people can't even read and they talk and talk and talk... just go work the ground.
Whydening Gyre
1 / 5 (13) Nov 30, 2013
Wondering if Google is in anyway involved in this... What about those barges of "shipping containers"?
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (11) Nov 30, 2013
If anyone doubts what I wrote above, check this:
http://newenergyt...ne.shtml

Thanks for that link. It certainly appears that Rossi lacks the scientific credibility commensurate with the task. However, here is a link from the same website on the Widom-Larsen theory which does not appear to be lacking in scientific credibility:
http://newenergyt...ry.shtml
Anyone care to address the numerous incidents of anomalous heating of the LiCoO2 batteries in the 787 Dreamliners? Bear in mind that 'thermal runaway' is a result and not an explanation of the cause, since "… (JTSB) has said on January 23 that the battery in ANA jets in Japan reached a maximum voltage of 31 V (lower than the 32 V limit like the Boston JAL 787), but had a sudden unexplained voltage drop to near zero. All cells had signs of thermal damage before thermal runaway." See: http://en.wikiped...problems
LaughingCoyote
4.2 / 5 (10) Nov 30, 2013
If it works so well, why doesn't doesn't he set up a power company and profit from monopoly pricing?
gwrede
1.8 / 5 (15) Nov 30, 2013
If it works so well, why doesn't doesn't he set up a power company and profit from monopoly pricing?
This is the best comment here, so far.
megmaltese
2.1 / 5 (16) Nov 30, 2013
Coyote this was discussed before, and all the situation is just so laughable: he doesn't patent because he says he doesn't understand "exactly" how this works, he doesn't want to put it on Kickstarter because who knows why, he doesn't want to begin production because he is afraid somebody steals his machine (which he doesn't know how is working).
And now he produced alone a bunch of stuff that should produce 1 MW of energy.
PREORDERS!
LOL. Just LOL.

He just came out with the obvious conclusion: get a huge amount of money just by trusting him and mantaining his "creature" in absolute mistery.
I am sure once he will sell this scam to somebody, should he manage to do that, he will then disappear.
Strange Loop
not rated yet Nov 30, 2013
I could come up with something like this and claim you only need hydrogen when you specifically need deuterium(-rich hydrogen). The cost of harvesting the deuterium defeats the benefits of the energy production but, sure, it "produces 470 kw using hydrogen" is not a false statement. Talk about isotopic statements.
Aaron1980
1 / 5 (12) Nov 30, 2013
lets keep our fingers crossed and hope this works... this will change the planet's socio-economic character if it stays out of the wrong hands.
meerling
3 / 5 (1) Dec 01, 2013
I would like this to be real, but where's sufficient proof?
If it works, that's a lot more important than knowing how it works. We can figure that out later.
That guy seems to have a rather sketchy past. Get the product and test it before giving him money.
Not patenting something because of theft fears are not uncommon. I've heard some patents require you to explain how it works. That might be an issue on this.
Converting the nickel to copper would have to be an atomic process of some kind, because it sure isn't chemistry.
A lot of systems would become much more efficient or even possible with an energy source like that.
I hope it's real, but as so many people have said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof". (You just have to thank Bill Nye for drilling that into so many young minds.)
betterexists
1 / 5 (14) Dec 01, 2013
While reading comments...I get an idea.
Some provision should be made for Commentators to Voluntarily say/click some button while commenting so that others can know something about the level of knowledge of the source of the comment in that field.

Obviously, everyone wants to know in entirety what they are reading about & prefer input from those with Advanced knowledge in the concerned fields!
antialias_physorg
4.4 / 5 (7) Dec 01, 2013
The "pre" in "preorder" is actually the most telling bit. A preorder is taken ONLY if the thing you are selling isn't ready for release (if it were they'd just take regular orders).

So he'll try to rake in all that preorder cash (as he has tried before) and then not deliver (again, as he has tried before. If you google back you will find Rossi taking "preorders" many years back already).

Oldest trick in the book.
NeutronicallyRepulsive
Dec 01, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 01, 2013
oldest trick in the book
Yeah and I guess these guys are sheisters also?

"You will be joining our community of over 600 future astronauts which has become one of the most exclusive clubs in the world!

"Once confirmed, you're given priority access to a variety of Virgin Galactic events. Our future astronauts have visited Necker Island with Sir Richard Branson, completed G-force training, celebrated milestone powered test flights in the Mojave Desert and much more.

"We hope to welcome you on board soon!

"-The Team at Virgin Galactic."
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (9) Dec 01, 2013
While reading comments...I get an idea.
Some provision should be made for Commentators to Voluntarily say/click some button while commenting so that others can know something about the level of knowledge of the source of the comment in that field.

Obviously, everyone wants to know in entirety what they are reading about & prefer input from those with Advanced knowledge in the concerned fields!
So for your comments there should be a flooding retard button. And also a fucking moron button. Right next to the drunken blackout poster button. And a scam troll button just in case you're some idiot pretending to be an ignoramus.

Oh and I forgot the STFU/GTFO big red button.
DeliriousNeuron
1 / 5 (11) Dec 01, 2013

Anyone seen the movie The Saint with Val Kilmer (John Rossi)?
Hmmmm.....
Its about a secret agent stealing the formula for Cold Fusion.
Mannstein
2 / 5 (4) Dec 01, 2013
Heavier than air flight was deemed impossible by then mainstream scientists even after the Wright brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk.

Semiconducting diodes were used as detectors by early radio pioneers even though no one understood how they functioned

Skeptics take note.
qquax
1 / 5 (9) Dec 01, 2013
For those who want to get a first hand of Mr.Rossi I recommend this video: http://www.youtub...z5Bq6dsA

As to the comparison that poster Betterexists made between the ecat venture and quantum computing, the situations is a bit more complicated: http://wavewatchi...edulity/

Over the years D-Wave has been taking all the right steps to build their credibility.
kochevnik
1.2 / 5 (11) Dec 01, 2013
Is Rossi on kickstarter? He could fund his project and even form a joint venture with the Brits who are designing a flying-helicopter solar pad thing. Then if one idea happened to be a total clusterfuck, investors would still have "Plan B." Which is more than Bush had in Iraq

He could even design a fusion generator into US dollars. Then when Americans discover their huge oil surplus was a big lie, and Saudis overstated their oil reserves 70% and there's nothing left, people can just plug their dollars in as a source of infinite energy and US can power their empire for another century with their fusiondollar ! Then again they can demand goods from the planet in exchange for Rossi paper notes and threaten war against any who dare sell energy without fusionbucks !
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.1 / 5 (7) Dec 01, 2013
For those who want to get a first hand of Mr.Rossi I recommend this video: http://www.youtub...z5Bq6dsA
Yeah your vid was Published on Jun 23, 2011. Since then hes had an independent review and gained many supporters, and released a lot of new info. Post a vid which refutes THIS, and try updating what you know and what you think you know.

It all might still be a fraud but you yourself wouldnt know this if your info is 3 years old.
freeiam
1.3 / 5 (12) Dec 01, 2013
I remember PearPC, an emulator that could run PowerPC software (Mac OS X at the time) at about half the native speed on the Intel processor hosting it.
Impossible if you know something about virtual machines, but yet if they released the product it would be instantly clear, so how could they lie about it?
And that's exactly what makes people, even people in the know doubt common sense (and the universe).
When the product was released it ran at the same speed as all comparable emulators (a factor 10 or so slower than advertised).
RealityCheck
2.3 / 5 (16) Dec 01, 2013
Heavier than air flight was deemed impossible by then mainstream scientists even after the Wright brothers' first flight at Kitty Hawk.

Semiconducting diodes were used as detectors by early radio pioneers even though no one understood how they functioned

Skeptics take note.

No mate, this not the same situation as those. People did believe in powered plane flight. Many people all over the world were experimenting with flight machines, it was only the details of efficiency, power and controls that were delaying things. And the 'technology' and scientific principles/knowledge base was already 'out there' in the public domain.

In Rossi con case, he hasn't allowed any true skeptic/public to look inside for themselves, nor has he released/patented it into the public literature to the detail necessary for anyone to judge one way or the other about its actual feasibility. Just secrecy, excuses and con-job modus operandi. Nothing else that is comparable to flight/transistor cases. :)
Zephir_fan
Dec 01, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Zephir_fan
Dec 01, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Dec 02, 2013
Heavier than air flight was deemed impossible by then mainstream scientists

Even mainstream scientists at the time were aware that birds could fly...that's just an urban legend.

Skeptics take note.

Not everything that seems fantastic has to become a reality. 99% of fantasies stay that way because they don't mesh with reality. That an unrelated technology actually was achieved does not mean anything as an argument in the context of cold fusion.

To put it plainly: Not every madman/con-man is an unsung genius.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (12) Dec 02, 2013
No mate, this not the same situation as those. People did believe in powered plane flight. Many people all over the world were experimenting with flight machines
No mate, many people are experimenting all over the world with LENR and apparently getting results. Defkalion and the Martin fleishman memorial project are 2. NASA has gotten 2 patents on Widom-Larsen- related phenomena which you also didn't know about.

Again, Rossi could be perpetrating a hoax but how would you know without any idea what's going on? Mate?
urban legends ... Fantastic... Fantasy... Madman/con man
AA loves spin words because he doesn't have to think in order to use them.

Anyone who has done even a little research on CURRENT info on LENR would be a skeptic, but not a denier, especially on a science website. Most of you all formed your opinions 3-4 years ago on bad and incomplete info. Much has happened since.
antialias_physorg
3.8 / 5 (4) Dec 02, 2013
I'm a denier of Rossi (and people like him). He's got a history of being a con man/fraud and his announcement raise all red flags with respect of being a con.

But you're certainly welcome to invest. Since you think that this will revolutionize the world a very modest investment should make you a very rich man in no time.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (11) Dec 02, 2013
He's got a history of being a con man/fraud
"11 Ex-Criminals Who Completely Turned Their Lives Around"
http://www.busine...y-firm-1
"6 People Who Turned a Life of Crime Into Legitimate Careers"
http://www.cracke...ers.html
"5 Criminals Who Became Famous Entrepreneurs"
http://www.busine...reneurs/
and his announcement raise all red flags with respect of being a con
No, it has many flags of various colors which suggest someone who has an easy-to-copy tech that he wants to make as much money as possible on. They also suggest someone who has signed a non-disclosure agreement with a large corporation.

You should try to have a little more faith and trust in the species.
RealityCheck
2.3 / 5 (15) Dec 02, 2013
many people are experimenting all over the world with LENR and apparently getting results. Defkalion and the Martin fleishman memorial project are 2. NASA has gotten 2 patents on Widom-Larsen- related phenomena which you also didn't know about.
If so, then they would by now have surely 'replicated' what Rossi claims, right?
Again, Rossi could be perpetrating a hoax but how would you know without any idea what's going on?
Precisely. Generic 'concept' of LENR is valid speculation fodder. Meanwhile actual 'technological feasibility' being 'proven' by Rossi's 'device/process' remains a secrecy shrouded con-job 'unknown' from all.
Anyone who has done even a little research on CURRENT info on LENR would be a skeptic, but not a denier, especially on a science website. ... Much has happened since.
Much has, except proven process and claims of Rossi. What does that tell you, given the history of self-publicizing con-men for other motives/cons than the LENR one itself? :)
no fate
1.4 / 5 (9) Dec 03, 2013
I'm a denier of Rossi (and people like him). He's got a history of being a con man/fraud and his announcement raise all red flags with respect of being a con.

But you're certainly welcome to invest. Since you think that this will revolutionize the world a very modest investment should make you a very rich man in no time.


Well said. Buy a machine from him if he's convinced you it works.

An inventor would have an uninterrupted video of his machine producing excess heat for an extended period (1-3 months) while not connected to anything (considering how long he has been milking this). That would be enough to shut the skeptics up and simple to produce whether you know how your doing it or not. A scientist would know how his machine worked unless the inspiration comes from the divine.

Rossi is neither.

Dave_Price
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 05, 2013
This should be interesting. Been following Rossi for a while, he's another of the "nickel fusion" guys like Blacklightpower. I can't decide what's more entertaining, Rossi's antics or the imputation to him of thaumaturgical powers on par with Blaine or Copperfield.

My take is this: Rossi has either stumbled into something unusual or has a genius for fraud. I've seen Rossi in action and, well, let's just say I don't think he's a genius. :) There's no good theory to explain this -- beta decay, Widom-Larsen, you name it there are giant holes in it. Unusual observation usually provokes new theory.

Some quibbles with the article: very little technology in industry is "peer-reviewed." I have clients with 50-year-old processes that are still secret. What matters in industry is the empirical evidence of the galdurned thing doing or not doing what it's supposed to.

There may or may not be anything here that is ultimately commercializable, but I'll enjoy finding out. :)
Dave_Price
1.7 / 5 (6) Dec 05, 2013
If so, then they would by now have surely 'replicated' what Rossi claims, right?
There has actually been quite a bit of LENR replication. That's why there are several LENR companies.

An inventor would have an uninterrupted video of his machine producing excess heat for an extended period (1-3 months) while not connected to anything (considering how long he has been milking this). That would be enough to shut the skeptics up
Unlikely. I could make that video tomorrow and I don't even claim to have such a device. :)
goracle
2 / 5 (4) Dec 06, 2013
Next year? Again? Didn't they sell one last year 'next year'...and the year before...and the year before...

According to our local cold fusion guy aren't there supposed to be many systems in operation?

Every year, a cold fusion power plant lets Rudolph and the other reindeer deliver toys to all the good girls and boys. Didn't you know?
Whydening Gyre
1 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
If he didn't have someone who believed in his product, how the hell is he financing his new production? OR are any current investors (there has be a couple of them, at least) actually con-men and criminally inclined, too?
Maybe the oil cartels are just having some fun with the public...

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