Study shows that many who experience trauma of war become increasingly religious

war
Credit: CC0 Public Domain

It's been said that there are no atheists in foxholes, but a new study led by Joseph Henrich has shown that the impact of war on religion extends well beyond the front lines.

The chair of the Department of Human and Evolutionary Biology, Henrich and a team of international collaborators gathered from several locations around the globe and found that, following the trauma of seeing a friend or loved one killed or injured during conflict, many became more religious. The study is described in a Jan. 28 paper published in Nature Human Behavior.

"I became interested in this question through my prior work, which has been focused on how can cause people to cooperate more in a group," Henrich said. "The idea is that if you can expand the sphere of cooperation, then that group can more successfully compete against others, sometimes even through .

"But this study suggests that this could lead to a vicious circle," Henrich continued. "If you receive a war shock and become very religious, and then begin to outcompete other groups through conflict, that could result in a runaway effect."

To understand the relationship between war and religion, Henrich and his colleagues gathered data from more than 1,700 interviews with people in 71 villages scattered throughout Sierra Leone, Tajikistan, and Uganda. Their results showed that, among those who were most exposed to war, membership in increased by 12, 14, and 41 percentage points, respectively.

In addition, the researchers found that those who experienced the trauma of war were likelier to attend religious services and were likelier to rank religion as being significant in their lives than those who were not. And in some cases, those effects were surprisingly long-lived.

"One of the more interesting findings was that in some cases we found the effect endures," Henrich said. "In Tajikistan we find the effect even 13 years post-conflict, and there's no sense in which it declines."

The three locations were selected, he said, because although all three had experienced civil conflict, none of them included a clear religious or ethnic dimension.

"In places like Sierra Leone, both the rebels and the government would go into villages and fire indiscriminately," Henrich explained. "Some people would be killed or injured and others wouldn't. That creates a natural experiment—some people are more exposed to the war and some people are less exposed, and then we were able to look at the effect of having this shock on their ."

Importantly, Henrich said, the study only compared those changes in religious devotion among individuals in the same .

"There could be many reasons why people in different villages might be more or less religious," Henrich said. "It could also be that a particular village was attacked more than another, but by comparing people from the same village we were able to eliminate that variation."

Ultimately, though, Henrich said the study supports the notion, often embraced by historians, that war can drive social changes down the road.

"It could affect the direction in which institutions evolve, or the policies that governments pursue," he suggested. "And there are policy implications as well, because if you're concerned about religious extremism and you deal with it through violence, then you could make it worse.

"Because it has this psychological effect, when you shock a population … new institutions that were impossible previously are more likely to emerge," he added. "So these war shocks may redirect history in different directions by reshaping institutions and influencing how people think."


Explore further

A call for a theoretical framework to address replication crisis facing the psychological sciences

More information: Joseph Henrich et al. War increases religiosity, Nature Human Behaviour (2019). DOI: 10.1038/s41562-018-0512-3
Journal information: Nature Human Behaviour

Provided by Harvard University

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Citation: Study shows that many who experience trauma of war become increasingly religious (2019, March 6) retrieved 20 June 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-03-trauma-war-increasingly-religious.html
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Mar 06, 2019
A lot of idiots are going to chime in here. People who have no idea what war is like personally. People who think they are smart and objective who in truth are very closed minded and can't even admit the possibility of God.

mqr
Mar 06, 2019
Carl Jung said nicely "People can hold onto atheism... until real suffering arrives., clean your mind and takes you to God"

George Orwell too
"Think of life as it really is,
think of the details of life;
and then think that there is no meaning in it,
no purpose,
no goal except the grave.
Surely only fools or self-deceivers,
or those whose lives are exceptionally fortunate,
can face that thought without flinching"

Mar 06, 2019
Does this only apply to trauma from war?
For, I wonder, if all those innocent children, abused by priests, found God.

Mar 06, 2019
What does any acts committed by any person have to do with the existance of GOD? Of course you can't see or understand that because you are incapable of opening your closed mind.

Mar 06, 2019
This was predictable from the phenomenon of martyrism. Worst thing you can do is kill a religious leader; their followers will never stop then. Sometimes there is no choice, but it's the worst of a lot of bad options.

Mar 06, 2019
This article was deliberately inserted by Physorg so that believers and athiests would get into a furious shouting match and run up the clicks. What little science there is here is all pretty obvious.


Mar 06, 2019
It's also clear that war is largely a religious phenomenon. Maybe someday we'll wake up; there are religions that don't advocate or accept war. Interestingly most of them except Buddhism actually wind up practicing it anyway. And even Buddhism has slipped more than once.

Mar 06, 2019
'There are no atheists in foxholes' mel gibsons favorite line. The late chris hitchens reminds us that some founding fathers thought otherwise...

"In his "Detached Memoranda," not published until after his death, Madison even wrote that the appointment of chaplains in the armed forces, and indeed in Congress, was "inconsistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principles of religious freedom." He could never have foreseen a time when state-subsidized chaplains would be working to subvert the Constitution, and violating their sacred oath to uphold it."
https://www.vanit...y-200912

-Priests will always seek to prey on the scared and emotionally vulnerable.

Mar 06, 2019
It's also clear that war is largely a religious phenomenon. Maybe someday we'll wake up; there are religions that don't advocate or accept war. Interestingly most of them except Buddhism actually wind up practicing it anyway. And even Buddhism has slipped more than once.


And what's wrong with war. Oh, I forgot, you are hung up on what is politically correct. We are top of the food chain. We did not get to the top of the food chain by being pacifics. Just like Americans live better than 93% of the rest of the world. We did not achieve that by being a pacifist nation. But there are plenty of people that don't understand that and would give it all up so our children could starve and go bearfoot, all the while calling themselves civilized and pacifists. All thru history there have been other nations and rulers that wish we weren't so violent. Examples - Hitler, Mussolini, Japan, Mexico etc.

Mar 07, 2019
It's also clear that war is largely a religious phenomenon. Maybe someday we'll wake up; there are religions that don't advocate or accept war
Religion is tribalism. Tribalism is the result of overpopulation. Religions ALL seek to outgrow and overwhelm. Religion is the CAUSE of war.

All of them.
And even Buddhism has slipped more than once
You really ought to do more reading. Islam is the religion of peace no? Wait - who was it who said 'turn the other cheek'?

"In Southeast Asia, Thailand has had several prominent virulent Buddhist monastic calls for violence. In the 1970s, nationalist Buddhist monks like Phra Kittiwuttho argued that killing Communists did not violate any of the Buddhist precepts."

"The oldest militant organisation active in the region is Democratic Karen Buddhist Army"
Cont>

Mar 07, 2019
"the Burmese government and local authorities played a key role in the forcible displacement of more than 125,000 Rohingya people and other Muslims in the region... the coordinated attacks of October 2012 that were carried out in different cities by Burmese officials, community leaders and Buddhist monks"

"Both Buddhist monks and laity laid the foundation for the justifiable use of force against Tamils in response to their demand for greater autonomy by arguing that the whole of Sri Lanka was a promised land of the Sinhalese Buddhists and it was the role of the monks to defend a united Sri Lanka."

"Other minority groups have also come under attack by Sinhalese Buddhist nationalists... Extremist Buddhist leaders justify their attacks on the places of worship of minorities by arguing that Sri Lanka is the promised land of the Sinhalese Buddhists..."

-All religions are identical in what they promise and what they expect in return. The pacifist ones are all extinct.

Mar 07, 2019
Heck, buddhist monks often fight each other
https://youtu.be/c1c7qfPakFs

Violence is woven into the fabric of all religions;

"recent decades have seen a controversy centering on a wrathful protector deity believed by some of the Dalai Lama's fellow religionists to heap destruction on the false teachers of rival sects."

-waiting to be carted out and acted upon whenever conditions require it.

If buddhism wasnt violent it too would be extinct.

Mar 07, 2019
Wow, we sure have some hot air long winded people on here that show their immorality by skirting even simple guidelines and the rules and think they are smart doing so,

Mar 07, 2019
I'm going out on a limb and suggest that in war people are presented with archtypes and memes only experienced in peak psychedelic or religious experiences.

Mar 07, 2019
And I am going out on a limb to suggest more people like vanilla ice cream than chocolate.But I guess our suggestions don't mean anything unless they are backed by hard empirical evidence on a topic where evidence can be gathered (Not on the spiritual).

To say it upfront, I have a bit of first-hand war experience, have witnessed civil war and worked several years in a peacekeeping mission. Late in this millennium there will finally be peace on Earth. However, the era of warfare on our home planet will not end until human beings cease to think, feel and thus also act irrationally, disconnected from reality, imprisoned in an unreal belief, not realising that humankind has evolved a ratio for making use of it. We had a whole series of wise persons and prophets who that far in vain educated the masses on the purpose of life, the principle of personal accountability for one's fate without hiding behind phantasy figures, how to be a guardian for all life forms on our planet, how to respect each other, not fall for beliefs, and never ever resort to violence if not in a state of emergency. Wars are sick and degenerated, those triggering them are mentally impaired and those suffering from them are likely to face harm to their psyche.

Carl Jung said nicely "People can hold onto atheism... until real suffering arrives., clean your mind and takes you to God"

George Orwell too
"Think of life as it really is,
think of the details of life;
and then think that there is no meaning in it,
no purpose,
no goal except the grave.
Surely only fools or self-deceivers,
or those whose lives are exceptionally fortunate,
can face that thought without flinching"


There is a big difference between agreeing that life has a meaning and agreeing that any of the religions and their phantasy figures has anything to do with that meaning.

Does this only apply to trauma from war?
For, I wonder, if all those innocent children, abused by priests, found God.


True, and attention, the study did NOT look at the impact from undergoing one of the many, many directly religiously motivated wars. Think about, centuries ago Europe had to face many religious wars between its citizens. Since that time the religiosity has drastically gone down, guess why, I call it learning effect.

Mar 09, 2019
And what's wrong with war.
Ummmm, people get killed?

You know, in like real life and stuff.

You are an idiot, and a dangerous one.

Mar 09, 2019
And what's wrong with war.
Ummmm, people get killed?
You know, in like real life and stuff.
You are an idiot, and a dangerous one.


Yes, a dangerous one. :-)
And one that knows why we live so well. And one unlike you, who does not have his head stuck in the sand. One that knows its always been that way since Cain and Abel.

One day man will put a end to war. But that time will not come till after we have taken the next evolutionary step and become much smarter. That time hopefully will come in the next 25 years or so.

Mar 09, 2019
And what's wrong with war.
Ummmm, people get killed?

You know, in like real life and stuff.

You are an idiot, and a dangerous one.


I will have you know, I agree with you. NO ONE should ask a question in these comments. Especially a question we consider politically incorrect. Although most people would consider the answer to a question politically incorrect. But not you, you take it one step further and make the question itself taboo. You call other people idiots but yet you are the most closed minded individual I ever heard from.

Mar 09, 2019
There is one single excuse for war: self defense against a warlike act.

That is all I think needs to be said.

Mar 09, 2019

All my own war experience (call it trauma if you want) did was to make me more observant and cautious...
I can't wait til armchair pundits declare a war on War...

Mar 09, 2019

All my own war experience (call it trauma if you want) did was to make me more observant and cautious...
I can't wait til armchair pundits declare a war on War...
What we need is a war on the cause of war, that being overpopulation. And so we need is a war on the main cause of overpopulation, which is religion.

Luckily this war is being waged as we speak on all major fronts.
There is one single excuse for war: self defense against a warlike act.

That is all I think needs to be said
Anyone who waits to be attacked before responding has already lost.

"Ho Shih puts this very clearly in his note: "When the enemy has made a plan of attack against us, we must anticipate him by delivering our own attack first.""

-Or to put it another way, 'Angriff ist die beste Verteidigung.'

Mar 09, 2019
There is one single excuse for war: self defense against a warlike act.

That is all I think needs to be said.

So you would have the whole world divided into small tribes that are prayed upon by larger tribes?
Death by war has been declining for a very long time, thanks to wars that have united tribes and made great countries. Wars have served a very important purpose and will continue to do so till our next evolutionary step. Oh, I guess its politically correct to be a pacifist now days and just be willing to give everything SOMEONE ELSE has worked and sacrificed for, away.

Mar 09, 2019
Anyone who waits to be attacked before responding has already lost.
You are talking about initiative. Which can be reversed by a skilled warrior.

All that's necessary is the adversary be baited and miss.

Mar 09, 2019
Oh, I guess its politically correct to be a pacifist now days and just be willing to give everything SOMEONE ELSE has worked and sacrificed for, away.
Self-defense doesn't "give everything." It convinces an offensive opponent that they will pay.

Lots of people have found out this is true, to their cost; generally of life.

Hit me. I will kill you.

The US used this for decades in the Cold War. Seems to have worked.

Mar 09, 2019
So tell me, @rdickus, do you fold after you get punched once?

A wuss is a wuss. Most bullies are wusses. And the ones who aren't don't know enough to surrender run or hide when faced with a warrior, and they die.

Mar 09, 2019
So tell me, @rdickus, do you fold after you get punched once?

A wuss is a wuss. Most bullies are wusses. And the ones who aren't don't know enough to surrender run or hide when faced with a warrior, and they die.
Changing this to "rdickwuss."

Mar 09, 2019
So tell me, @rdickus, do you fold after you get punched once?

A wuss is a wuss. Most bullies are wusses. And the ones who aren't don't know enough to surrender run or hide when faced with a warrior, and they die.
says Da Pussyman

Talk is cheap. Brave talk in a comments phorum is worse than cheap - it is moronic and meaningless. Facing rderkis in a boxing ring or on the street, Da Pussyman would show his true colour (yellow), piss his pants, then run and hide. That's the kind of "warrior" he would be.

Mar 09, 2019
You will notice that the brave warrior Da Schneib hides behind a anonymous name out of fear, while he slanders like a bully. You are obviously one of those people that talk of peace while wanting to fight. All the while hiding behind a mask of anonymity. Put Up or shut up, coward.
I will now mute you by ignoring your comments because there is NO WAY a coward like you will ever show his face.

Mar 09, 2019
There is one single excuse for war: self defense against a warlike act.

So you would have the whole world divided into small tribes that are prayed upon by larger tribes?

Prayed upon? Don't you mean - preyed upon? Anyway, looks kinda like what we have now, it appears...
Death by war has been declining for a very long time, thanks to wars that have united tribes and made great countries.

And made for even bigger wars, when they happen...
Wars have served a very important purpose and will continue to do so till our next evolutionary step.

Bragging rights to "right and wrong"...
Oh, I guess its politically correct to be a pacifist now days and just be willing to give everything SOMEONE ELSE has worked and sacrificed for, away.

Not even sure where you're going with this one...

Mar 09, 2019
I'm right here and I ain't goin' nowhere. You've tried everything you got and ain't none of it worked yet.

You can smell trolls. Smells like ass.

Nothing like trolling the trolls and watching them get all upset and stuff. Comedy gold.

Mar 09, 2019
I'm right here and I ain't goin' nowhere. You've tried everything you got and ain't none of it worked yet.

You can smell trolls. Smells like ass.

Nothing like trolling the trolls and watching them get all upset and stuff. Comedy gold.


says Da Head Troll

One more 7x
Answer these 7 questions, Da Scheide.
1. What is time made of?
2. Does your wife still use a dildo?
3. Does her vayjay still stink like rotting fish?
4. Is it true that you're gay and love a big clock up your arse?
5. Your wife says you can't get it up. Is she telling the truth?
Oh, so it is true.
6. Tell us about your boyfriend, Da Schniebo. Does he cum in your moof often?
7. Your wife says that you hate sex with women. Is she right?

Read more at: https://phys.org/...html#jCp

Mar 09, 2019
Still here, troll. You are absolute comedy gold. I get a laugh just about every time you post.

Have you stopped sucking your dog's dick yet?

Mar 09, 2019
Still here, troll. You are absolute comedy gold. I get a laugh just about every time you post.

Have you stopped sucking your dog's dick yet?


Just like YOU, my dog doesn't have a dick.

Yep. Comedy gold.

Mar 09, 2019
Snicker.

I think you have about as much knowledge of veterinary surgery as you do about physics and math.

No, neutering a dog doesn't remove the penis. The dog needs it to piss. Maybe you forgot.

Again, were you born like this, or did you have to practice?

Mar 09, 2019
Snicker.

I think you have about as much knowledge of veterinary surgery as you do about physics and math.

No, neutering a dog doesn't remove the penis. The dog needs it to piss. Maybe you forgot.

Again, were you born like this, or did you have to practice?
says Da Pussy

Just like YOU, she doesn't have a penis.

Oh yeah. Comedy gold

Mar 09, 2019
I am irresistibly reminded of the Bloom County cartoon where the boys have Bill the Cat strapped down and one of them says, "Ready with the newt!" and the other says "Ready with the spade!"

Mar 10, 2019
And I wouldn't touch that straight line with your dick.

Mar 10, 2019
I can not understand why a site that is put on by a advanced scientific group, does not have a AI censor setup that would be advanced enough to filter out offensive comments that have nothing to do with article topic. And after 3 strikes ban people who are contributing nothing to the article topic.
Of course some SHIT HEADS :-) will take exception to this suggestion.

Mar 10, 2019
I give as good as I get. And I take no shit off trolls.

Like I said, you can tell a wuss bully, they fade after the first punch.

Don't open the box if you don't wanna see what's inside.

Mar 10, 2019
Wow, while I did not read comment, I am guessing it was one of those SHIT HEADS I was talking about. :-)

Mar 10, 2019
Go bang your sister, trailer trash.

Mar 10, 2019
The sound of bitchslapping among you kiddies is deafening.
https://youtu.be/RknKkEVtbcs

You should all be thrown off this site.

Mar 10, 2019
Wars are sick and degenerated, those triggering them are mentally impaired and those suffering from them are likely to face harm to their psyche
War is what made us human. War is evolution with weapons. So to speak.
http://rint.recht...rid2.htm

Every gen thinks that it is the one that is finally intelligent enough, educated enough, ethical enough, ecumenical enough, egalitarian enough, to end war for good. And then along comes an enemy it absolutely HAS to fight, or be destroyed.

This happens to EVERY gen. How come? Why do you think that is?

Mar 10, 2019
And I wouldn't touch that straight line with your dick.

LMAO.
Hey, Da Schitts, we all know what you would do with that dick. Get down on all fours and try to get it to hit that "sweet spot" in your rectum.

@Otto: Doing warfare against fellow beings of the same species IS NOT NATURAL. What is natural can be seen when carefully studying other life forms in nature. The standard is that animals get along with each other. Just because humankind has during the last 15,000 years or so lost its track, not the least due to religious delusions, does not mean that this era of deviation is the peak of human ingenuity. When making proper use of our consciousness we have the ability and evolutionary duty to create a paradise on Earth. And one characteristic of such future state has obviously to be that all our military capabilities evolve solely for defending against threats from external to the planet. One stepping stone to get there has to be the shunning of all forms of terror, offensive war, dictatorships and a new massive, ethical, well trained, well equipped peacemaking force that is held accountable by a totally redone United Nations.

Mar 10, 2019
Doing warfare against fellow beings of the same species IS NOT NATURAL..


What are you basing that statement on? Certainly not studies. I must confess I am not basing my beliefs on that statement on studies either. Dog packs fight each other to the death. Wolf packs fight each other to the death. Ant colonies fight each other to the death as do bees. Primate packs fight other primate packs. I can not think of a single social or semi social animal species that does not fight other packs/groups of the same species. Perhaps some herbivore packs/groups don't fight each other. Non pack animals often fight other members of the same species for terratoral or sexual control.

It seems war is one of the most natural things we do and it is partly why we are at the top of the food chain.
I do believe we will put an end to war in our soon to be next guided evolutionary step.

Mar 11, 2019
...
It seems war is one of the most natural things we do and it is partly why we are at the top of the food chain.
I do believe we will put an end to war in our soon to be next guided evolutionary step.

And that step will be to prep the path for the NEXT 'top o the food chain"...

Dogs are domesticated animals with genetics deviating grossly from their proper evolutionary path. Thus, of little value to interpret any of their strange behaviour. Wolf packs are marking, checking and respecting other pack's territories very carefully. Inter-pack aggression is seldom, they just live next to each other and avoid each other. Violent battles between different bee colonies in Australia are of inter-species nature, competing for resources. Attacks between primate packs have been witnessed, they are not the norm. No rule without exception, there are some creatures that go as far as killing folks from the same species. Let us also not confuse competition for mating with intention of killing. Fights between contenders, if a practise for a given species, are usually heavily ritualised and seldomly leave a dead loser behind. And finally, humans, crown jewel of evolution, with a conscious consciousness, can't excuse themselves by giving in to primitive instincts.

Mar 11, 2019
Did I just hear someone say, "Dogs fight so humans should have wars?"

Really? Really?

Mar 11, 2019
Wolf packs...aggression is seldom. ...battles between different bee colonie...for resources. Attacks between primate packs ...are not the norm.,.. Fights between contenders ... seldomly .. dead loser behind. ...humans, ..into primitive instincts.


I a, confused. You say animals packs do kill each other but usually only for resources. And just why do you think human kings and leaders attack other groups of humans, if not for resources?
It seems we are just smart enough to be top of the food chain and are smart enough to invent and use technology but not quite smart enough to escape our genetic instincts.
We are at a divide by our IQ, our smartest know better, the average guy fights blindly out of hate for anything different. We are at the edge, IQ wise.
All we need is a boost everyone's IQ say 50% (guess) and we will outgrow those baser instincts.
With genetic engineering in the next 20 years we will gradually leave those instincts behind as we boost everyone's IQ

Mar 11, 2019
I a, confused.
...
We are at a divide by our IQ, our smartest know better, the average guy fights blindly out of hate for anything different.

Yes, you are confused. Both of those generalizations couldn't be more wrong.
We are at the edge, IQ wise.
All we need is a boost everyone's IQ say 50% (guess) and we will outgrow those baser instincts.
With genetic engineering in the next 20 years we will gradually leave those instincts behind as we boost everyone's IQ

I guess you think you're one of the lucky ones who don't need it...

Mar 11, 2019
No, Whydening Gyre, but I think you are someone who needs it more than most, based on your reading comprehension.
I clearly said "everyone". Plus even a modest IQ boost of say 50% would put pretty much everyone way beyond Einstein's in intelligence.

And that is just the start. Once our IQs start getting higher the faster the improvements in IQs will come.

And as a side note. This is not science fiction it has already started happening. That little girl in china that got the genetic modification that improved her HIV resistance got a very slight IQ boost from the changed genes.

Mar 11, 2019
I a, confused.
Yes, that's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer.

Is jebus gonna increase our IQs?

Mar 11, 2019
You know, with its pink unicorn, laser eyes, and machine guns?

https://pbs.twimg...pg:large


Mar 11, 2019
I should explain why a increase in IQ is needed by EVERYONE.
There is a slight difference between a average IQ(100) and a genus(160+).
The average guy can be manipulated easily to hate anouther country's citizens based on their differences.
Examples color or beliefs.
These manipulations are in most part done by the most intelligent among them. Examples Kings, Dictators and most the other top leaders, that really only want war to gain more resources.
When it comes to AI our (very)intelligent people say don't do it. Example Elon Musk said "AI is the demon in the bottle".
Yet our second tier of very intelligent people are developing AI as fast as they can.
Example our most intelligent people realized climate change was happening way back when Al Gore made his movie. They were not fooled by the Oil companies and coal company's propaganda.
We are as a species almost intelligent enogh to put a end to war and solve some of the world's major problems. We just need to boost our IQ.

Mar 11, 2019
da Schneib, I don't read your comments but may I ask are you just long winded that you write one comment after another or is it just that you can't think fluently enough to put them all in one comment? On second thought don't bother answering because I don't bother reading your posts anyway.

Mar 11, 2019
da Schneib, I don't read your comments but may I ask are you just long winded that you write one comment after another or is it just that you can't think fluently enough to put them all in one comment? On second thought don't bother answering because I don't bother reading your posts anyway.

You have only just discovered the mental case that's Da Schitt. Since his boyfriend dumped him on Valentines, he has descended into creating multiple sock puppets, which he then use to converse with and upvote, himself.

Mar 11, 2019
You have only just discovered the mental case that's Da Schitt.


All that proves is that he needs his IQ enhanced. After a IQ upgrade he would think about things differently and would have points that would contribute to these conversations.

Mar 11, 2019
@Otto: Doing warfare against fellow beings of the same species IS NOT NATURAL
Competition drives evolution. Competition is the norm among all species.

War is an extreme form of competition. And youre right, its not natural; very little aabout the human condition is natural.

So heres the equation once again...

Humans began using tech. Tech systematically eliminated natural attritive elements. Overpopulation ensued. Humans congealed into tribes to protect and secure resources. Tribal warfare became the NORM. Tribal warfare drove techno and social innovation at escalating rates, leading to increasing growth, greater shortages of resources, more intense conflict, etcetcetc.

WISHING all this to be something other than what it is does not CHANGE a THING. Stopping overgrowth will end war. War is a symptom. Overpopulation is the disease.

Very simple to understand whether you like it or not. IGNORING it and LYING about it is the only true evil on this earth.

Mar 11, 2019
Dogs are domesticated animals with genetics deviating grossly from their proper evolutionary path
Humans are also domesticated. They will believe in nonexistent gods and hate people who are not their natural enemies, on command.
Wolf packs are... respecting other pack's territories very carefully. Inter-pack aggression blah
Wolves and other primates are NOT subject to OVERPOPULATION. ANY species naturally produces more offspring than can be expected to survive to maturity. The tropical human animal removed all the normal attritive elements that served to keep our numbers in check. WE save the young and old.
And finally, humans, crown jewel of evolution, with a conscious consciousness, can't excuse themselves by giving in to primitive instincts
You keep promulgating this evil religionist bullshit and you are part of the problem.

The west has finally achieved zero growth despite all this. This too is artificial. Can you figure out how this was done?

Mar 11, 2019
Good thing so many major powers have achieved 0 or even negative growth. So according to your logic ( not studies), China is no longer a threat to anyone. Nor is Iceland, Germany, Portugal, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Hungary, Japan, Italy, and Greece among others.
I would say your theory is flawed but I am guessing even in the face of overwhelming evidence you could never admit your wrong,.


Mar 11, 2019
Sorry dorkus youre not worth engaging with.

In fact *blink*

These threads are getting shorter and shorter-

Mar 11, 2019
Good thing so many major powers have achieved 0 or even negative growth. So according to your logic ( not studies), China is no longer a threat to anyone. Nor is Iceland, Germany, Portugal, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Hungary, Japan, Italy, and Greece among others.
I would say your theory is flawed but I am guessing even in the face of overwhelming evidence you could never admit your wrong,.

says rderkis

China has almost fully embraced Capitalism as a result of her fierce competition with the USA. The game of Economics is far better than an all-out war of ideologies. It is power of a different kind.
The US will likely have a Civil war due to the Liberal/Socialist indoctrination of Millennials who now are said to favour Socialism - that same destructive and restrictive faux pas so inherent to third world nations and those who are just filled with pseudo-intellectuals looking to become the Elite. In certain US states, it is now permissible to murder the newborn

Mar 11, 2019
@SRU doesn't know any more about socialism or capitalism or communism or feudalism or democracy or any other system of economics or government than it does about math, and it can't solve

2 + 2 / 2 = ?

Mar 11, 2019

2 + 2 / 2 = ?

Da Schitts, the "meat" loving, knob gobbler, brays.

2 + 2 / 2 = Da Schitts, gay tag team dream.

I don't know about you Otto, but I do more than only complaining about the root cause of nowadays' all main problems. As a starter you might want to make sure that your name is on that list:

https://www.chang...controls

And could it be that your justified disgust versa religions makes you a bit blind about the depth of our existence? There are things to discover in this universe beyond the material realm alone. Maybe this article can be of help during your exploration:

https://au.figu.o...ion.html

Mar 12, 2019
I don't know about you Otto, but I do more than only complaining about the root cause of nowadays' all main problems. As a starter you might want to make sure that your name is on that list:

https://www.chang...controls

He has no idea what your talking about. The bible says it best.
"There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See"

Mar 12, 2019
The key to pop control is preventing births. In a century most everyone now alive will be dead. Many of them dont need to be replaced.
And could it be that your justified disgust versa religions makes you a bit blind about the depth of our existence?
'The depth of our existence'... translation: "Of course theres a soul! Of course I'll live forever! Of course my enemies will suffer eternal damnation! Of course I'll get all my wishes granted!" -etc. No, no you wont.
There are things to discover in this universe beyond the material realm alone
And no, no there arent. See previous comment.

Mar 12, 2019
What of those who will not see science, when they're typing comments on the Internet made by science, on a computer made by science?

Mar 12, 2019
No, Whydening Gyre, but I think you are someone who needs it more than most, based on your reading comprehension.

Maybe it's the Lasik...
I clearly said "everyone". Plus even a modest IQ boost of say 50% would put pretty much everyone way beyond Einstein's in intelligence.

50% is not modest.
And that is just the start. Once our IQs start getting higher the faster the improvements in IQs will come.

This is starting to sound weaponizable...
And as a side note. This is not science fiction it has already started happening. That little girl in china that got the genetic modification that improved her HIV resistance got a very slight IQ boost from the changed genes.

And.... you know that how?

Mar 12, 2019
The bible says it best.
"There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See"

Except those that are blinded by what they THINK they can see...

Mar 12, 2019
The bible says it best.
"There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See"

Except those that are blinded by what they THINK they can see...

Edit - "by what they IMAGINE they can see...."

Mar 12, 2019

You have only just discovered the mental case that's Da Schitt. Since his boyfriend dumped him on Valentines, he has descended into creating multiple sock puppets, which he then use to converse with and upvote, himself.


Your obsession with other people taking cocks is fascinating !
Would you like some links to some soft gay porn ?

How is that self acceptance thing going ? Any closer to a reconciliation ?
You know that gay is ok !

We will accept your tiny dick, don't worry, there is a niche for everything.
You will see, sex will remove so much of that tension you keep in... :)

From your fellow gay
Big hugs @antigoracle

Mar 12, 2019

2 + 2 / 2 = ?

Da Schitts, the "meat" loving, knob gobbler, brays.

2 + 2 / 2 = Da Schitts, gay tag team dream.


I will repeat myself to no avail...

Gay is ok @antigoracle ! Don't hate yourself for being gay !

It's really not an insult to call people gay.

It is, though, an insult in some backwards social circles, but those tend to be grouping brainwashed bigots, usually from a rural area with a heavy religious influence...

Accept your sexuaity @antigoracle, it is normal and natural. :)

Mar 12, 2019
No, Whydening Gyre, but I think you are someone who needs it more than most, based on your reading comprehension.

Maybe it's the Lasik...
I clearly said "everyone". Plus even a modest IQ boost of say 50% would put pretty much everyone way beyond Einstein's in intelligence.

50% is not modest.
And that is just the start. Once our IQs start getting higher the faster the improvements in IQs will come.

This is starting to sound weaponizable...
And as a side note. This is not science fiction it has already started happening. That little girl in china that got the genetic modification that improved her HIV resistance got a very slight IQ boost from the changed genes.

And.... you know that how?

The Chinese media reported it, must be true as there are very accurate test to test IQ of a newborn.
I mean accurate IQ tests are everywhere, just put in IQ test in Google and see.
Gotta love these Interwebz scientists. Why go to school at all?

Mar 12, 2019
50% is not modest.

I don't have to tell you the word "Modest" is relative.

This is starting to sound weaponizable...

Yes, even your iQ is weaponized. Does that mean you have to use it? I am thinking that as our intelligence grows we will gradually lose our primitive instincts. Just as your primitive instincts are not as strong as a caveman's because of your intelligence.

And.... you know that how?

technologyreview.com/s/612997/the-crispr-twins-had-their-brains-altered/
among many other scientific articles
They know of over 1000 genes that control IQ. They only changed 1. But that's a start.

Mar 12, 2019

technologyreview.com/s/612997/the-crispr-twins-had-their-brains-altered/
among many other scientific articles
They know of over 1000 genes that control IQ. They only changed 1. But that's a start.


And this is proof that their IQ is enhanced ?

Or is it just proof that a gene linked to IQ has been changed ?

Not the same, is it ?

Mar 12, 2019
You are absolutely right. gene editing is in its infancy. I don't know enough about it to answer your questions. I would think that they would know that turning a gene either on or off helps increase the IQ and they switched that gene accordingly. Not to increase intelligence but to help give HIV resistance. Just happens that particular gene does both functions.
we both know that IQ is a test result number and a unreliable test of intelligence (intelligence quotient) but here we are using the word IQ interchangeably with intelligence. (OK?)
Soon the will be able to switch all those genes either on or off to see what happens in maybe a dog or rat.
I am guessing they won't be the exact same genes but its a step in the right direction.
Whether we like it or not intelligence enhancement will soon became the norm.

Whether you like it or not, we are on the road to extinction. Climate change, AI, resistant disease etc.
Too late to stop it.
Only a boost in IQ can save us!

Mar 12, 2019

Whether we like it or not intelligence enhancement will soon became the norm.

Whether you like it or not, we are on the road to extinction. Climate change, AI, resistant disease etc.
Too late to stop it.
Only a boost in IQ can save us!


Sounds scary, not sure how I feel about it...

We can stop the destruction we are causing at the moment, but it would need a massive change and activity in world politics and economics.

I don't believe we are capable of this change currently, money is still more important than anything else apparently.

I'd think until this mindset changes, neither will society unfortunately...

Mar 12, 2019
We are to late to reverse climate change. Sure we could reverse it but we will be extinct by then.
Plus AI will kill us. Our very top minds said of AI "Its like demon in a bottle".
All the while our not quite so smart top minds are trying to build AI as fast as they can.
We are as a species at a place in our intellectual development where we are smart enough to destroy ourselves but not quite smart enough overall to prevent that destruction.
All we need is a small amount of intelligence enhancement for EVERYBODY. That boost would put us over the top, suppressing more of our primitive instincts. While at the same time making us smart enough to invent new technology to terraform the earth quickly. As a side note the masses would not be so easily manipulated to go to war.

Do you personally think, if your IQ were boosted by 5 or10% you would become a bad person?

Mar 12, 2019
We are to late to reverse climate change. Sure we could reverse it but we will be extinct by then.
Might as well just ADAPT then.. Even our current minds can do that....
Plus AI will kill us. Our very top minds said of AI "Its like demon in a bottle".

An opinion presented so as to keep "the masses" fearful while the control escalates.
All the while our not quite so smart top minds are trying to build AI as fast as they can.

I guarantee it's the same people...
Do you personally think, if your IQ were boosted by 5 or10% you would become a bad person?

No.
But, would it make me a "better" person? I'm not so sure of that one.
Might you lose your (instinctual) empathic nature, as well?
Our current notions of right and wrong may be replaced by more "efficient" modes of survival...

On the interesting discussion of extra "intelligence" being a simple answer. What we currently subsume under intelligence is only a small fraction of what it should entail. For us evolving up the progress ladder we need to catch up in areas outside of what currently is included and measured. Our values in the area of social skills, empathy, ethics etc. etc. are since millennia falling behind. And exactly these will make the difference of us arriving at a solidarity with brotherhood/sisterhood of humans and respect for all creatures or destroying livelihood on this planet. Following the universal laws, the most beneficial way of our human race (and we are in reality only one same race, as the bodily differences are that minuscule compared to representatives of the human species elsewhere) on Earth progressing would be in a balance. That means for e.g. in as far as valuing and promoting science is concerned (I am a STEM guy) not being fixated on STEM and materialistic needs alone.

Mar 12, 2019
This is starting to sound weaponizable...

Yes, even your iQ is weaponized. Does that mean you have to use it?

Yes. Because "Weaponization" is, in reality, our survival mechanism. How to gain advantage over a threat or even just a "potential" threat...
I am thinking that as our intelligence grows we will gradually lose our primitive instincts. Just as your primitive instincts are not as strong as a caveman's because of your intelligence.

I know many physical aspects are not as efficient (Smell, etc.), but 64 years tells me my survive instinct is doing OK...
I'd like to know what you consider instinct and how you define IQ...

Mar 13, 2019
Might you lose your (instinctual) empathic nature, as well?

It as already been shown that empathy is caused by a specific chemical in the brain. I have never understood why our most violent murders are not given it while in jail. I guess WE are to empathetic towards them. :-)
I'd like to know what you consider instinct and how you define IQ

Like I explained earlier IQ (Intelligence Quotient) is just a number taken from a VERY POOR test to compare you with the overall average of everyone else that took it. Once again as I said earlier, that although it is wrong, for the purpose of this discussion we will call iIQ intelligence.
Personally I think instincts are inherited behavior. A lot of people don't realize some of the qualities we consider very moral and high level are really basic instincts. Courage, loyalty, some sacrifices etc.
These are traits a predatory pack animal needs to have, to make a successful pack.

Mar 13, 2019
On the interesting discussion of extra "intelligence" being a simple answer. .


While what you say sounds VERY good. At this point we have only two options and that should make it easy. Putting everything else aside do you choose extinction for you, your loved ones and the rest of humanity or do you chose intelligence enhancement, which may very well give us the answers we need?
There are no other viable options (that we have time for).

The cure for the downwards trends will not be a genetic fix for making us better persons. Driven by current humankind's shortsighted priorities the next genetic fixes will focus on extending the duration of life. And – should I say unfortunately? – there will be some breakthroughs in that regard (aggravating our still unaddressed population growth problem). Like it or not, the fix has to come from our global education systems. Family's education and then school education need to put much more stress on teaching values, virtues. However, doing so needs to happen without the troublesome overhead of pseudo-values as defined by religions (things like readiness to sacrifice, take revenge, blind obedience, fatalism, pride etc.).

Mar 13, 2019
IQ is mental age divided by physical age times one hundred.

Now, you can cavil against measuring mental age, but the thing is it's measured against the general population. So what now?

Mar 13, 2019
aggravating our still unaddressed population growth problem). .


Unaddressed population growth problem? That is a no brainer. Most 1st world countries already have that under control. It is a easy fix, as people get more educated there is less population growth. Examples of countries with 0 or less population growth. China, Iceland, Germany, Portugal, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Hungary, Japan, Italy, and Greece among others. And the countries in the west are getting there also.

Like it or not, the fix has to come from our global education systems

As for the climate change. What part of not enough time before we go extinct do you not understand?
Even if we all joined together and educated ever man woman and child with the equivalent of a doctorates degree we could not stop it in time.
Choose extinction or enhanced intelligence.


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