New 3-D map will help solve long-standing cosmic mysteries

New 3-D map will help solve long-standing cosmic mysteries
3-D view of the two clouds in which we mapped the magnetic field and their location in the Milky Way galaxy. Credit: Aris Tritsis and colleagues, Space Nebula Plugin for Unreal Engine 4, Fabian Fuchs & Linus Fuchs

A new study led by ANU has created a 3D map of the magnetic field in a small wedge of the Milky Way galaxy, paving the way for future discoveries that will improve our understanding of the origin and evolution of the Universe.

Lead researcher Dr Aris Tritsis from the ANU Research School of Astronomy and Astrophysics (RSAA) said this was the first study to tomographically measure the strength of our galaxy's magnetic field.

"Our work paves the way for future discoveries regarding the evolution of the Milky Way, the formation of stars and planets and the early stages of our Universe," said Dr Tritsis, who collaborated with RSAA colleague Associate Professor Federrath and Associate Professor Vasiliki Pavlidou from the University of Crete.

The galaxy's magnetic field and act like a veil that obscures the radiation from the early stages of our Universe - known as - and have prevented scientists from testing cosmological models for the Universe's evolution.

For comparison, the 15 μG (micro Gauss) typically measured in the - as shown in the image above - is 10 million times smaller than the strength of a fridge magnet. Despite its small value and because it spans tens or hundreds of light years, it is extremely important for all the processes mentioned in this article.

"We now have the means to map the strength of the magnetic field for all regions of our galaxy, enabling us to better understand the Universe's evolution," Dr Tritsis said.

"The present work is proof that such an ambitious study is feasible. Our next step is to create the first full 3-D map of the galaxy's magnetic field and study all other astrophysical processes that depend on it."

Associate Professor Federrath said the team found that the galaxy's strength was much higher than previously thought.

"Most models that predict the strength of our galaxy's magnetic field for every location and distance from the Sun are based on observations that cannot probe the magnetic field in three dimensions," he said.

Associate Professor Pavlidou said the study was an important step in understanding how ultra-high-energy travel through our galaxy.

Cosmic rays are very energetic particles, some with energies much higher than what human-made accelerators can reach.

"By understanding the structure and strength of the we can boost our chances of finding the locations of the sources of these extremely energetic particles and we can probe new physics at extreme energies," she said.

The research is published in The Astrophysical Journal.


Explore further

Galactic wind provides clues to evolution of galaxies

More information: Aris Tritsis et al. Magnetic Field Tomography in Two Clouds toward Ursa Major Using H i Fibers, The Astrophysical Journal (2019). DOI: 10.3847/1538-4357/ab037d
Journal information: Astrophysical Journal

Citation: New 3-D map will help solve long-standing cosmic mysteries (2019, March 15) retrieved 23 September 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-03-d-long-standing-cosmic-mysteries.html
This document is subject to copyright. Apart from any fair dealing for the purpose of private study or research, no part may be reproduced without the written permission. The content is provided for information purposes only.
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Mar 15, 2019
These linear structures of plasma "fibers" with their field-aligned fields are, you guessed it, Birkeland currents. These currents with their stronger than expected magnetic fields are of decisive importance to the formation andnn movement of stars and plasma in the galaxy, gravity doesn't operate at this scale.

Mar 15, 2019
These linear structures of plasma "fibers" with their field-aligned fields are, you guessed it, Birkeland currents. These currents with their stronger than expected magnetic fields are of decisive importance to the formation andnn movement of stars and plasma in the galaxy, gravity doesn't operate at this scale.


Complete nonsense and fabrication.

Mar 15, 2019
Arxiv version of paper here;

https://arxiv.org...0231.pdf

Mar 15, 2019
From the above paper;

The fact that the theoretical predictions from the model developed for striations (Tritsis & Tassis 2016) applies in observations of fibers, strongly suggests that fibers are created from hydromagnetic waves.

Mar 15, 2019
These linear structures of plasma "fibers" with their field-aligned fields are, you guessed it, Birkeland currents.


You forgot to mention Z-pinch in there somewhere.

Mar 15, 2019
These linear structures of plasma "fibers" with their field-aligned fields are, you guessed it, Birkeland currents.


You forgot to mention Z-pinch in there somewhere.


And double layers!

Mar 15, 2019
What exactly is a Birkeland current?

Mar 15, 2019
Amusingly, the electromagnetic forces which drive the matter into these "fibers" is the z-pinch effect, inherent to the process. And double layers are part and parcel to Birkeland currents and plasma, again inherent to the physical processes.

Mar 15, 2019
Amusingly, the electromagnetic forces which drive the matter into these "fibers" is the z-pinch effect, inherent to the process. And double layers are part and parcel to Birkeland currents and plasma, again inherent to the physical processes.


Nope. You are making stuff up again. I wish you'd desist.

Mar 15, 2019
"gravity doesn't operate at this scale."
Yah see cant? It's these really stupid statements of fakir dogmatism, you are always preaching. Are why no one takes you seriously.
Gravity is what organizes & energizes your silly little plasmaspastic electrosparkly for their brief sputtering existence.

Gravity is indifferent to your woomongering nonsense. Gravity is Eternal & Constant.

Mar 15, 2019
gravity doesn't operate at this scale.


Over that scale, gravity is the only thing operating;

http://wtamu.edu/...t-force/

Mar 15, 2019
Obviously Castro, Magnetism IS operating at that scale or they would not have written this article and the paper, and frankly, with the MHD they talk about in the paper itself, and the parallel current sheets as indicated, they Are talking about widespread Birkeland Currents and current sheet 'ribbons' and the fact that not only are they more widespread than previously thought, they are also some ~5 X stronger than previously thought as well.

Not woo, not gibberish, and though they do not specifically make the statement that Birkeland currents are there, they relate to all the other portions of MHD and Plasma/Magnetic physics that would be the equivalent of Birkeland Currents. I DID read the paper, and it is Not what you seem to think it is "Castro/jd", It is quite against what you are, and have been, trying to state, and much closer to CD (much as I hate to say that as he is mono-track) this time it IS Birkeland currents on a large scale, just not the planetary variety.

Mar 15, 2019
[qNot woo, not gibberish, and though they do not specifically make the statement that Birkeland currents are there, they relate to all the other portions of MHD and Plasma/Magnetic physics that would be the equivalent of Birkeland Currents. I DID read the paper, and it is Not what you seem to think it is "Castro/jd", It is quite against what you are, and have been, trying to state, and much closer to CD (much as I hate to say that as he is mono-track) this time it IS Birkeland currents on a large scale, just not the planetary variety.

Total nonsense. Not a single mention of currents. Stop lying.

The fact that the theoretical predictions from the model developed for striations (Tritsis & Tassis 2016) applies in observations of fibers, strongly suggests that fibers are created from hydromagnetic waves.


You obviously didn't read the paper very carefully, did you?

Mar 15, 2019
"What exactly is a Birkeland current? "

The flow of Ion's "along" magnetic field lines of flux.
@ Steelwolfe, nicely said.

Mar 15, 2019
"What exactly is a Birkeland current? "

The flow of Ion's "along" magnetic field lines of flux.
@ Steelwolfe, nicely said.


And nothing whatsoever to do with this paper.

Mar 15, 2019
Amusingly, the electromagnetic forces which drive the matter into these "fibers" is the z-pinch effect, inherent to the process. And double layers are part and parcel to Birkeland currents and plasma, again inherent to the physical processes.


Nope. You are making stuff up again. I wish you'd desist

Sorry jonesdumb, those are statements of fact. If you had an iota of a clue you would know better than to respond in the way you did.

Mar 15, 2019
Amusingly, the electromagnetic forces which drive the matter into these "fibers" is the z-pinch effect, inherent to the process. And double layers are part and parcel to Birkeland currents and plasma, again inherent to the physical processes.


Nope. You are making stuff up again. I wish you'd desist

Sorry jonesdumb, those are statements of fact. If you had an iota of a clue you would know better than to respond in the way you did.


Nope. You are lying. Absolutely nothing to do with this paper. Strop lying, it is tiresome.

Mar 15, 2019
For the terminally stupid and dishonest, here is the 2016 paper from the same author that he references in the recent paper;

Striations in molecular clouds: Streamers or MHD waves?
Tritsis, A. & Tassis, K.
https://arxiv.org...8615.pdf

Zilch to do with Birkeland currents or z-pinches. That is a total fabrication from physics ignoramuses. Quit with the lying.

Mar 15, 2019
Striations in molecular clouds: Streamers or MHD waves?
Tritsis, A. & Tassis, K.

Papers by plasma ignoramuses are irrelevant claptrap, so too is this one.

Mar 15, 2019
Striations in molecular clouds: Streamers or MHD waves?
Tritsis, A. & Tassis, K.

Papers by plasma ignoramuses are irrelevant claptrap, so too is this one.


You lost the argument, again. And your only comeback is that these people don't know about plasma physics! What a pathetic creature you are. Here's some news - you know absolutely Jack about any science. Why are you here?

Mar 15, 2019
You lost the argument, again

LOL!

Mar 15, 2019
You lost the argument, again

LOL!


Show me where you didn't, you liar.

Mar 15, 2019
It is incredible, the level of blatant hypocrisy, so vividly displayed by the looneytiicks, the woomongers, the fakirs, the denialistbots, the antivaxxers & all the other varieties of criminal frauds.

Who are using modern technology; theorized, invented, developed based on the Real Sciences.
That the bogus plagiarists so consistently attempt to sabotage.
With their poisonous propaganda to commit extortion. Threatening to discredit legitimate Scientists with their bogus lies if the Real Scientists refuse to surrender peer-review process to the online gangsters.

The present tragedy of so many children's deaths to preventable diseases as just one of the destructive results of the global campaign to destroy scientific knowledge.

J'accuse the global fascist axis of pimp putin's KGB kleptocracy & the saudi-owned wahhabi cult.

I don't care who you puppets pretend is crossing your palms with silver. All your strings lead back to Moscow & Riyadh.

Mar 15, 2019
I don't care who you puppets pretend is crossing your palms with silver. All your strings lead back to Moscow & Riyadh.


Not all of them. Some of them lead back to the idiot Velikovsky. See cd and his ilk.

Mar 15, 2019
I don't care who you puppets pretend is crossing your palms with silver. All your strings lead back to Moscow & Riyadh.


Not all of them. Some of them lead back to the idiot Velikovsky. See cd and his ilk.

Wasn't he Russian?

Mar 15, 2019
I don't care who you puppets pretend is crossing your palms with silver. All your strings lead back to Moscow & Riyadh.


Not all of them. Some of them lead back to the idiot Velikovsky. See cd and his ilk.

Wasn't he Russian?


Yes. A Russian Jew. Not that that has got anything to do with the fact that he didn't have a clue what he was talking about. Electric Universe nonsense is built upon his crap.

Mar 15, 2019
Birkeland currents have nothing to do with galaxies. They're currents that flow in Earth's magnetosphere.

Mar 15, 2019
Electric Universe nonsense is built upon his crap

And nothing I stated above has anything to do with Velikovsky. The commentary I made is pointing out plasma phenomena proffered by scientists such as Birkeland, Langmuir, Alfvén, Falthammar, Peratt, et al, but you do like to change the subject at every turn.

Mar 15, 2019
Birkeland currents have nothing to do with galaxies. They're currents that flow in Earth's magnetosphere.

da schnied decides to shove his foot in his mouth and say something stupid and ignorant, but this is expected.

Mar 15, 2019
Electric Universe nonsense is built upon his crap

And nothing I stated above has anything to do with Velikovsky. The commentary I made is pointing out plasma phenomena proffered by scientists such as Birkeland, Langmuir, Alfvén, Falthammar, Peratt, et al, but you do like to change the subject at every turn.


BS you liar. Nobody is describing these 'fibres' as Birkeland currents. They weren't even known to Alfven, Peratt, etc. You just keep making stuff up. It's tiresome. Get an education.

Mar 15, 2019
They weren't even known to Alfven, Peratt, etc. You just keep making stuff up. It's tiresome. Get an education.

Revising history to agree with your claims is a clear indication of the type of character you live by, you should be ashamed but you wear it as a badge. Pathetic individual you choose to be!

Hannes Alfvén wrote:

"Plasma cables seem to be reasonably stable formations which can be considered as structures important for the understanding of plasma phenomena. (Of course, their interior structure should be described by classical theory.) The plasma cables are either filaments or 'flattened filaments' (sheets with limited extent). They carry an electric current parallel to the magnetic field, and this is what gives them their properties. The cables are often very efficient in transferring electromagnetic power from one region to another...."

TBC...

Mar 15, 2019
Cont...
"They are embedded in passive plasmas, which have essentially the same properties in all directions around the cables. They are 'insulated' from their surroundings by a thin cylindrical electrostatic sheath (or double layer) which reduces the interaction with its exterior. In the magnetosphere and upper ionosphere, the density in the cable is sometimes lower than the surrounding passive plasma. In other cases, the density in the cable may be much larger than the surroundings because ionized matter is pumped into the cable from the outside. By selectively doing so, the chemical composition in the cable may differ from that of its exterior (Marklund convection). Besides the cylindrical electrostatic sheath, there are often longitudinal double layers, in which a considerable part of the power which the cable transmits may be converted into high energy particles. The double layers sometimes explode, and this produces excessively high energy particles."

Lie much jonesdumb?

Mar 15, 2019
Then show some sort of evidence Birkeland currents have anything to do with galaxies.

Or else you're lying again.

Mar 15, 2019
Then show some sort of evidence Birkeland currents have anything to do with galaxies.

Simulation of two interacting Birkeland currents;
https://www.plasm...mulation
Seems pretty obvious, flat rotation curves and all...

Mar 15, 2019
This popular gullibility for fake pseudo-science goes way back in American history.

My suspicion is that future historians/herstoruans (if those professions are not eventually liquidated during the strumpet dynasty)
That they will consider such events as the evangelist takeover of the GOP, the sabotage of the ERA which led to the sabotage of education to remove the Arts & Sciences from lower & middle schools.

That resulted in the Sad Puppies movement to hijack the Hugo & Nebulae Awards. Leading to flood of poorly written, scientifically illiterate falseSF books & videogames.
I mean they can't even keep simple geography accurate!

The KGB survived the fall of the Soviet Empire & managed to thrive. Their alliance with the saudi-owned wahhabi cult gave them a beard of respectability to hide behind.
With an introduction to fake-conservatives such as the GOP & NRA.

"And the Road to Hell is laid down with slippery cobblestones of fear & hate and greed."

Mar 15, 2019
So you got nothing.

As usual.

You're lying again, @cantthink.

Mar 15, 2019
So you got nothing.

As usual.

You're lying again, @cantthink

Right, posting a link to a pair of interacting Birkeland currents which shows all these characteristics of galaxy formation, no faerie dust needed;

Peratt further notes that:[3] "When scaled to cosmic dimensions the simulations show:

1) a burst of synchrotron radiation of luminosity ~10^37 W lasting 10^7-10^8 years as the interaction began;
2) isophotal topologies of double radio galaxies and quasars, including juxtapositioned "hot spots" in the radio lobes (cross sections of the interacting Birkeland currents);
3) the formation of "dust lane" peculiar and elliptical galaxies at the geometric center of quasars and radio galaxies (due to plasma trapped and compressed within the elliptical magnetic separatrix);
4) a spatially varying power law along the major axis of the simulated double radio galaxies in agreement with observations;

TBC...

Mar 15, 2019
Cont...

5) alternating beams of betatron-pumped synchrotron-emitting electrons on either side of the elliptical center (these have the morphologies (i.e., "knots" or vortices) and polarization properties of jets); and
6) a "superluminosity" and fading of jets as the betatron-induced acceleration field sweeps over and ignites previously confined plasma."

Peratt continues: "The simulation time frame of this investigation lasted some 10^8-10^9 years. The lifetime and evolution of quasars and double radio sources, the so-called end problem of double radio galaxies, was addressed in this paper (Paper II) by continuing the simulation run ~1-5 x 10^9 years farther in time. This extension of the simulation showed:
1) the transition of double radio galaxies to radioquasars to radioquiet QSO's to peculiar and Seyfert galaxies, finally ending in spiral galaxies;

TBC...

Mar 15, 2019
Cont...

2) the formation of irregular and dust lane galaxies, as well as more flattened E and S0 galaxies within the magnetic separatrix;
3) barred and normal spiral galaxies resulting from the inflow of plasma from the outer Birkeland currents onto the the elliptical galactic center; the characteristic rotational velocities of spiral galaxies including the fine-detail vortex cotangent structure on the "flat" portions of the spiral-arm velocity components;
4)replications of the morphologies of multiple interacting galaxies;
5)"horseshoe" like regions of nearly neutral Hi gas in spiral galaxies resulting from the convection and neutralization of plasma into regions of strong galactic magnetic fields; and
6) toroidal and poloidal components of the galactic magnetic field with field strengths reaching 2 x 10-4 G at the galactic center (fields as high as 10-2 G can occur in concentrated regions). These results were reported prior to their observation in the Galaxy"

Mar 15, 2019
It is all referenced on the webpage, just like wikistupidia. And, I was expecting you to lie da schnied, it's what you do.

Mar 15, 2019
I'm sorry, not reading any more. I see no point in engaging further with a crank who blathers about Birkeland currents and doesn't know what they are.

Mar 15, 2019
da schnied digs in his heels of willful ignorance and deceit, as usual.

Mar 15, 2019
You folks might want to look into the Plasma Hydrodynamics, even on just Wiki, as they state plainly that:
"In many MHD systems most of the electric current is compressed into thin nearly-two-dimensional ribbons termed current sheets." Wiki

And have the diagrams detailing the Birkeland currents around Earth, and also note astrophysical scientists have taken it as a general term for sheet-like electrical currents in the forms of sheets or filaments of plasma since the 80's. Alfven waves are also strongly mentioned.

It comes down to falsifying yourself when stating this article was not about Magnetic fields able to move things in space, which the article is Specifically about. Not about gravitational effects at all, and the Electric and Magnetic effects Are that large as one goes with the other, and found to be at least about 5 times stronger than previously expected or detected. Nice having good detectors to see things not seen before. And not Believed before.

Mar 15, 2019
What exactly is a Birkeland current?


A Birkeland current is a force-free, field-aligned electric current which naturally arises in plasmas due to the magnetic z-pinch effect.

"A Birkeland current usually refers to the electric currents in a planet's ionosphere that follows magnetic field lines (ie field-aligned currents), and sometimes used to described any field-aligned electric current in a space plasma.[3] They are caused by the movement of a plasma perpendicular to a magnetic field. Birkeland currents often show filamentary, or twisted "rope-like" magnetic structure. They are also known as field-aligned currents, magnetic ropes and magnetic cables)."
https://www.plasm..._current

Mar 16, 2019
Then show some sort of evidence Birkeland currents have anything to do with galaxies.

Simulation of two interacting Birkeland currents;
https://www.plasm...mulation
Seems pretty obvious, flat rotation curves and all...

TO quote many in here - "That link shows a simulation, not reality"...

Mar 16, 2019
There is no discussion of currents in the paper, @Steel. There is also no mention of electric fields or anything else electric. Plasma is mentioned only once, in the introduction.

Mar 16, 2019
HI is neutral hydrogen; that is, not plasma. You will note that HI regions are prominently mentioned in the paper, as is dust.

Mar 16, 2019
There is also no mention of electric fields or anything else electric. Plasma is mentioned only once, in the introduction.

Further proof these guys are plasma ignoramuses;
"In order to understand the phenomena in a certain plasma region, it is necessary to map not only the magnetic but also the electric field and the electric currents." Hannes Alfven
HI is neutral hydrogen; that is, not plasma. You will note that HI regions are prominently mentioned in the paper, as is dust.

It has been shown ad nauseam in these threads and elsewhere that HI regions are partially ionized and as such, behave as plasma. And then there are dusty plasmas to boot. These plasma ignoramuses erred at every turn in trying to describe the physics here, as such their interpretations are irrelevant.

Mar 16, 2019
Ummmm, HI is neutral hydrogen. Period. It is easily distinguished from HII ionized hydrogen by its spectrum, most commonly by 21 cm radiation easily detected by radio telescopes.

You're lying again, @cantthink.

Mar 16, 2019
Worth noting as well that HI and HII don't mix. When they encounter one another they form visible shock and ionization fronts, with well-understood and easily visible effects. Nothing like that is being talked about here.

There are also no thunderbolts. No currents. No ions. No electrons. No plasma.

No evidence.

Speculations without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.

We done here?

Mar 16, 2019

These plasma ignoramuses erred at every turn in trying to describe the physics here, as such their interpretations are irrelevant.


BS. You know nothing about plasma physics. Please point to the paper suggesting these phenomena as Birkeland currents. I want to see the mechanism, the equations, the predictions. What does it say about the Stark effect? Just link to the paper. I do not want to hear your crappy interpretation.

Mar 16, 2019
Then show some sort of evidence Birkeland currents have anything to do with galaxies.

Simulation of two interacting Birkeland currents;
https://www.plasm...mulation
Seems pretty obvious, flat rotation curves and all...


That is a crappy, falsified piece of nonsense. Even the author has given up on it. Observation proves it to be wrong.

Mar 16, 2019
HI is neutral hydrogen. Period. It is easily distinguished from HII ionized hydrogen by its spectrum, most commonly by 21 cm radiation easily detected by radio telescopes.

It is still partially ionized, from wikistupidia;
"The degree of ionization in an HI region is very small at around 10^−4 (i.e. one particle in 10,000)"
Even that degree of ionization results in plasma behaviour.

Mar 16, 2019
What exactly is a Birkeland current?


A Birkeland current is a force-free, field-aligned electric current which naturally arises in plasmas due to the magnetic z-pinch effect.

"A Birkeland current usually refers to the electric currents in a planet's ionosphere that follows magnetic field lines (ie field-aligned currents), and sometimes used to described any field-aligned electric current in a space plasma.[3] *****They are caused by the movement of a plasma perpendicular to a magnetic field*****.


Which is not the case here.

Mar 16, 2019
HI is neutral hydrogen. Period. It is easily distinguished from HII ionized hydrogen by its spectrum, most commonly by 21 cm radiation easily detected by radio telescopes.

It is still partially ionized, from wikistupidia;
"The degree of ionization in an HI region is very small at around 10^−4 (i.e. one particle in 10,000)"
Even that degree of ionization results in plasma behaviour.


And has no relevance to these papers. So, what are you talking about?

Mar 16, 2019
When they encounter one another they form visible shock and ionization fronts, with well-understood and easily visible effects.

It has been known since Langmuir that two different plasmas will form sheath and layers between them. Amusingly you don't even grasp that your explanations are describing plasma effects. LOL!

Mar 16, 2019
Observation proves it to be wrong.

Please point to the scientific literature where this has been shown to be tested.

Mar 16, 2019
Observation proves it to be wrong.

Please point to the scientific literature where this has been shown to be tested.


COBE, WMAP, Planck. And, as I have already told you, and linked to, the separate 'Birkeland currents' in Peratt's nonsense are actually not separate, but are the lobes of huge jets emitted from an AGN in an elliptical galaxy. As observed, but not necessarily in Peratt's time. It is dead. Hence the author's dropping of it.

Mar 16, 2019
*****They are caused by the movement of a plasma perpendicular to a magnetic field*****.

Which is not the case here.

These localized field-aligned currents are moving perpendicular to the large scale galactic magnetic fields. Without the effects of these plasma processes the above observed "fibers" would not be possible.
It is the electric and magnetic fields which creates these coherent structures, can't make them with faerie tale maths claptrap.

Mar 16, 2019
The Hall Effect

Cantdrive in Obfuscation
Birkeland currents electric currents in ionosphere following magnetic field lines field-aligned currents describe any field-aligned electric current in space plasma by movement of plasma perpendicular to magnetic fields
Cantdrive85s bridge in the making
Plasma flowing perpendicularly to planetary solar magnetic fields
where did Kristian Olaf Bernhard Birkeland
remembered for his theories of atmospheric electric currents
get this nonsense from
where did Olaf scrabbling in dusty physics literature obfuscate these Olaf currents
he claimed his own as Birkeland Currents
these currents are none other than the little known but oft used in magnetic field detectors
The Hall Effect
is this Cantdrive85
TrollianCantDrive85 in the making
because
TrollianCantDrive85 This Hall Effect is Obfuscated as Birkeland current
in all reality
is simply
The Hall Effect
http://hyperphysi...all.html

Mar 16, 2019
COBE, WMAP, Planck. And, as I have already told you, and linked to, the separate 'Birkeland currents' in Peratt's nonsense are actually not separate

Blah, blah, blah...
Point to the paper which shows this hypothesis as tested and failed. COBE, WMAP, Plank, agree very nicely with the Plasma Cosmology, see Garrett Vershuur's research where he has shown how the observations agree that we are looking at local current structures.

Mar 16, 2019
*****They are caused by the movement of a plasma perpendicular to a magnetic field*****.

Which is not the case here.

These localized field-aligned currents are moving perpendicular to the large scale galactic magnetic fields. Without the effects of these plasma processes the above observed "fibers" would not be possible.
It is the electric and magnetic fields which creates these coherent structures, can't make them with faerie tale maths claptrap.


BS. Read the papers, drongo. And I'm still waiting for the paper where this has been suggested for fibres in molecular clouds.

Mar 16, 2019
COBE, WMAP, Planck. And, as I have already told you, and linked to, the separate 'Birkeland currents' in Peratt's nonsense are actually not separate

Blah, blah, blah...
Point to the paper which shows this hypothesis as tested and failed. COBE, WMAP, Plank, agree very nicely with the Plasma Cosmology, see Garrett Vershuur's research where he has shown how the observations agree that we are looking at local current structures.


The CMB measurements falsify Peratt's crap. And the observations of his 'Birkeland currents' show them to be lobes from jets from an AGN in an elliptical galaxy. Model trivially falsified. Verschuur is another PC nut. Nobody directly replied to Peratt's crap, because a) it was crap, and b) it would never have been seen, given the journal that he hid it in. It is garbage. Falsified garbage.

Mar 16, 2019
Verschuur is another PC nut.

Dr. Garret Verschuur, Astronomer Emeritus Arecibo Radio Observatory
http://www.naic.e...stronomy

Mar 16, 2019
Verschuur is another PC nut.

Dr. Garret Verschuur, Astronomer Emeritus Arecibo Radio Observatory
http://www.naic.e...stronomy


And he was wrong.

Correlation between galactic HI and the Cosmic Microwave Background
Land, K. & Slosar, A.
https://arxiv.org...1703.pdf

We thank the anonymous referee for their helpful suggestions, and taming the more cavalier parts of this report.


In other words, they really laid into his nonsense, and had to tame it down a bit.

Mar 16, 2019
And the observations of his 'Birkeland currents' show them to be lobes from jets from an AGN in an elliptical galaxy. Model trivially falsified.


And, regardless of Verschuur's fantasies, that also falsifies the 'model'.

Mar 16, 2019
where did Kristian Olaf Bernhard Birkeland
remembered for his theories of atmospheric electric currents
get this nonsense from
where did Olaf scrabbling in dusty physics literature obfuscate these Olaf currents
he claimed his own as Birkeland Currents

Ooh! I've been prosed!
This Trollian's response would be that Birkeland never referred to these currants as a self-named Birkeland current.
It was not until the late 1960's when Dr. Alex Dessler observationally confirmed Birkeland's hypothesis of electric corpuscle rays from the Sun were responsible for the aurora, they were then named Birkeland currents by Dr. Dessler.

Mar 16, 2019
In other words, they really laid into his nonsense, and had to tame it down a bit.

And Dr. Verschuur responded and showed how dramatically wrong these plasma ignoramuses were in their mistaken attempt to explain away his findings.
Scroll down to his papers on the matter, he has authored several;
https://www.resea...erschuur

Mar 16, 2019
In other words, they really laid into his nonsense, and had to tame it down a bit.

And Dr. Verschuur responded and showed how dramatically wrong these plasma ignoramuses were in their mistaken attempt to explain away his findings.
Scroll down to his papers on the matter, he has authored several;
https://www.resea...erschuur


And is essentially ignored, because he was wrong.

Mar 16, 2019
..................these plasma ignoramuses........


Change the record you boring, ignorant clown. You know nothing about the subject.

Mar 16, 2019
The Hall Effect

Plasma is ionisation in motion is a current
where
that current travelling perpendicular to this magnetic field
is propelled
perpendicularly to this ionised plasma in motion
is
a drift of electrons creating a potential difference
parallel either side of this plasma in motion
as
The Hall Effect
so
Things are not what they seem with this Birkeland current

Mar 16, 2019
In other words, they really laid into his nonsense, and had to tame it down a bit.

And Dr. Verschuur responded and showed how dramatically wrong these plasma ignoramuses were in their mistaken attempt to explain away his findings.
Scroll down to his papers on the matter, he has authored several;
https://www.resea...erschuur


And go and look at the thousands of papers on the WMAP, COBE & Planck data that disagree with him.

Mar 16, 2019
And go and look at the thousands of papers on the WMAP, COBE & Planck data that disagree with him.

And there were "thousands of papers" written that supported Chapman's POV regarding the auroral mechanism, and Birkeland was "essentially ignored". How did that work out?

Mar 16, 2019
And the observations of his 'Birkeland currents' show them to be lobes from jets from an AGN in an elliptical galaxy. Model trivially falsified.


And, regardless of Verschuur's fantasies, that also falsifies the 'model'.


Still waiting.....................

Mar 16, 2019
Deniers tied in knots. The Paper itself, not just the fluff above, and the other papers referenced, all point to Ions and electrons being detected, meaning plasma. This plasma is distributed in large sheets and double layered sheets, just as Birkeland currents are described in all the literature. For you to be saying that this article is not about partially ionized Hydrogen (which is one of the markers used as well as CO) s being intentionally obtuse. MHD and Current effects in filament formation are real.

Magnetism does not happen without electron flow and aligned spin features, one of the things that electricity does for matter, and since we are talking wide-spread magnetic field, there is widespread electron movement as well, or Electrical Current, no matter how you despise the idea. Look up electrical conduction of rarified plasmas, and see just how close to pure vacuum it has to be to no longer conduct, even then ions and electrons cross vacuum all the time

Mar 16, 2019
Deniers tied in knots. The Paper itself, not just the fluff above, and the other papers referenced, all point to Ions and electrons being detected, meaning plasma. This plasma is distributed in large sheets and double layered sheets, just as Birkeland currents are described in all the literature. For you to be saying that this article is not about partially ionized Hydrogen (which is one of the markers used as well as CO) s being intentionally obtuse. MHD and Current effects in filament formation are real.


Total nonsense. Can't you read? Why don't you email the authors if you are so convinced they are talking about currents? Too chicken, yes? Or look at their model, and show where currents are created. Or even mentioned. I'm getting sick of this ignorant lying.


Mar 16, 2019
The Hall Effect

Plasma is ionisation in motion is a current
where
that current travelling perpendicular to this magnetic field
is propelled
perpendicularly to this ionised plasma in motion
is
a drift of electrons creating a potential difference
parallel either side of this plasma in motion
as
The Hall Effect
so
Things are not what they seem with this Birkeland current

They are not entirely what they seem, as this system of field-aligned current sheets involves more than just the Hall effect.

Mar 16, 2019
These Birkeland Current are not Birkeland Currents
The Hall Effect
Plasma is ionisation in motion is a current
where
that current travelling perpendicular to this magnetic field
is propelled
perpendicularly to this ionised plasma in motion
is
a drift of electrons creating a potential difference
parallel either side of this plasma in motion
as
The Hall Effect
so
Things are not what they seem with this Birkeland current

This Hall Effect is inconsistent
with
the theory behind Birkeland Currents
because
This Hall Effect which technically is Birkeland Current
does not flow aligned with magnetic fields
so
these Birkeland Current are not field aligned currents
so
These Birkeland Current are not Birkeland Currents

Mar 16, 2019
Or look at their model, and show where currents are created. Or even mentioned.

It has already been explained this paper was penned by plasma ignoramuses.

"In order to understand the phenomena in a certain plasma region, it is necessary to map not only the magnetic but also the electric field and the electric currents." Hannes Alfven

They failed to do so, as you have mentioned several times. As such, their findings are irrelevant.

Mar 16, 2019
And go and look at the thousands of papers on the WMAP, COBE & Planck data that disagree with him.

And there were "thousands of papers" written that supported Chapman's POV regarding the auroral mechanism, and Birkeland was "essentially ignored". How did that work out?


We had no observations then. We do now, and they show Peratt to be wrong. And he has not addressed those observations. He has dumped his 'model'.

Mar 16, 2019
This Hall Effect is inconsistent
with
the theory behind Birkeland Currents
because
This Hall Effect which technically is Birkeland Current
does not flow aligned with magnetic fields
so
these Birkeland Current are not field aligned currents
so
These Birkeland Current are not Birkeland Currents

Don't fall into the same simplistic trap as jonesdumb, there are multiple magnetic fields lain upon one another. There are large scale magnetic fields which are traversed by this plasma, there are also these smaller scale field-aligned currents which are expected in these inhomogeneous plasmas.

Mar 16, 2019
He has dumped his 'model'.

He re-released his book 'The Physics of the Plasma Universe' just a couple years ago liar. He is also still presenting his theories at Plasma Cosmology conferences, liar. Even though he is beyond retirement age he is still active in his research, liar.

Mar 16, 2019
This Hall Effect

This Hall Effect does not flow aligned with magnetic fields
there is no other way of creating a potential difference creating a flow of electrons
with flowing plasma perpendicularly through magnetic fields
as
the drift of electrons so produced
This Hall Effect
does not flow aligned with the magnetic field
what ever
TrollianCantDrive85 and uncle tom cobbley and all is observing
Is not Birkeland currents!

Mar 16, 2019

It has already been explained this paper was penned by plasma ignoramuses.


No, it has not. We have a baseless assertion from somebody who is clueless on the subject. Please point to the paper predicting these filaments in molecular clouds from Birkeland currents. You are a serial liar.

And you have still not dealt with Peratt's failed model. For which Verrschuur offers only a contrary opinion. Like me to upload his book, where he discusses AGNs? Totally contradicts Peratt's 'model'.

https://www.resea...c_Nuclei

Mar 16, 2019
An excerpt from the above mentioned book;

When radio doubles were first studied it was suspected that something had to be flowing out from the galaxy in order to inflate the radio lobes. While no one specifically predicted that such narrow jets would be observed, and certainly not that they would be such beautifully organized radio emitting structures, their discovery has turned out to be yet another exciting topic in astronomy. It is the jets that funnel energy into the radio lobes and ***they originate at black holes at the cores of the central galaxies.***


So much for Peratt's nonsense.

Mar 16, 2019
Yeah, please do. Show where it "totally contradicts" Peratt's model. Given your utter ignorance I challenge you to follow up with your erroneous claim.

Mar 16, 2019
Yeah, please do. Show where it "totally contradicts" Peratt's model. Given your utter ignorance I challenge you to follow up with your erroneous claim.


I just did! See above.

Mar 16, 2019
***Ooh, ooh!*** jonesdumb added stars to a cherry picked quote again.


Mar 16, 2019
TrollianCantDrive85

Can you please?
explain
the electric magnetic mechanism
how
this flowing plasma
interacts
with this magnetic field
In accordance with The Hall Effect

Mar 16, 2019
Further;

The common denominator for all these magnificent structures is that there is an enormous amount of activity, chaos if you will, in the cores of those distant galaxies, and that chaos can usually be tied back to the goings on around a massive black hole at the centers of those galaxies. This gave rise to the umbrella description 'active galactic nucleus' or AGN.

Mar 16, 2019
Your cherry picked blurbs don't "prove" anything jonesdumb. He even refers to an "umbrella description", just as he mentioned BH's which falls under another umbrella description.

Mar 16, 2019
***Ooh, ooh!*** jonesdumb added stars to a cherry picked quote again.



Nope, he is saying precisely what these radio galaxies are. And it totally contradicts Peratt's failed model.

Mar 16, 2019
Birkeland currents have to match The Hall Effect

After all these years TrollianCantDrive85
you have been at war with your nemesis over Birkeland currents
and
as they cannot flow aligned with this perpendicular field
its
time
to get down and dirty
time to get to this nitty-gritty
get yor hands dirty
get down to basics
as
to what these Birkeland currents are
because
according to your description
they are not Birkeland currents
TrollianCantDrive85
because
according to your description
your description does not fit The Hall Effect
Birkeland currents have to match The Hall Effect

Mar 16, 2019
Your cherry picked blurbs don't "prove" anything jonesdumb. He even refers to an "umbrella description", just as he mentioned BH's which falls under another umbrella description.


Wrong. He describes in detail precisely what is going on. And it totally contradicts Peratt's 'model'. You lose again. Haha.

https://ufile.io/vjs09 (Verschuur's full book)

I would suggest having a close look at chapters 10 & 12 firstly.


Mar 16, 2019
Once every 200 million years the sun, its attendant planets, and all the life forms we know about move ponderously about that hub located 25,000 light-years away beyond the stars of Sagittarius. It is there that a huge black hole harboring the equivalent of 4 million suns within its grasp holds court and dominates the remarkable activity at the galactic center.


I guess I can just about live with this guy, Verschuur.

Mar 16, 2019
In fact, I'm positively warming to Verschuur;

Systematic observations of infrared radiation from stars in a cluster right at the galactic center using the Keck Telescope makes it possible to infer the mass of the object about which they are orbiting. It contains the equivalent mass of 3.7 million suns and its diameter as inferred from radio observations is so tiny that it can only be a black hole that holds those orbiting stars in its grasp.


Mar 16, 2019
The Paper itself, not just the fluff above, and the other papers referenced, all point to Ions and electrons being detected, meaning plasma.
Where? Quote it please, @Steel; we already have the link.

Mar 16, 2019
Here's some news - you know absolutely Jack about any science. Why are you here?
........you mean these days you're finding it embarrassing to again admit you have an Anthropology degree from the University of Auckland, NZ? I remember jonesy when you used to brag about that, then you met Benni who pushed your back to the wall with real science that ONLY elicits name calling rants from you.

So tell us, why do YOU think Anthropology is such a relevant field of endeavor in this chatroom?

Mar 16, 2019
Here's some news - you know absolutely Jack about any science. Why are you here?
........you mean these days you're finding it embarrassing to again admit you have an Anthropology degree from the University of Auckland, NZ? I remember jonesy when you used to brag about that, then you met Benni who pushed your back to the wall with real science that ONLY elicits name calling rants from you.

So tell us, why do YOU think Anthropology is such a relevant field of endeavor in this chatroom?


Go away uneducated liar.

Mar 16, 2019
TrollianCantDrive85

When did your interest wane in Field Aligned Currents?
TrollianCantDrive85 as you ponder the intricacies of Birkeland currents under your Bridge
Birkeland currents have to match The Hall Effect
because
The Hall Effect is the only way
to produce currents
which TrollianCantDrive85
are supposedly Birkeland currents
if, TrollianCantDrive85 you have an alternative explanation
how Birkeland currents are produced by plasma flowing perpendicular to the magnetic fields
we are all ears, TrollianCantDrive85
because Hall effect currents are not field aligned currents

CantDrive85, Where do you get your field aligned currents?

Mar 16, 2019
TrollianCantDrive85

When did your interest wane in Field Aligned Currents?
TrollianCantDrive85 as you ponder the intricacies of Birkeland currents under your Bridge
Birkeland currents have to match The Hall Effect
because
The Hall Effect is the only way
to produce currents
which TrollianCantDrive85
are supposedly Birkeland currents
if, TrollianCantDrive85 you have an alternative explanation
how Birkeland currents are produced by plasma flowing perpendicular to the magnetic fields
we are all ears, TrollianCantDrive85
because Hall effect currents are not field aligned currents

CantDrive85, Where do you get your field aligned currents?


What the hell are you blathering about? There are no currents. Read the paper, and stop commenting on things that you don't understand.

Mar 16, 2019
TrollianCastroGiovanni
What the hell are you blathering about? There are no currents. Read the paper, and stop commenting on things that you don't understand

Who said this has got any thing to do with what ever TrollianCastroGiovanni is talking about
what relavance has this got to do with the fact current exist in what ever your talking about

Unless TrollianCastroGiovanni
you
have just undergone yet another metamorphosis
and
turned into TrollianCantDrive85
These currents were about
CantDrive85 description of field aligned currents

TrollianCastroGiovanni, Read the comments and stop commenting on things that you don't understand

Mar 16, 2019
@granville583762.
The Hall Effect..Cantdrive in Obfuscation..

http://hyperphysi...all.html
Careful. That is for 'solid' conductor, NOT 'fluidic' plasma, context.

The EFFECTIVE difference: it is charges moving within solid conductors being separated (moved to the sides); whereas in 'fluidic' plasma, it is plasma 'flow structures' THEMSELVES that are separated.

Hence they are NOT equivalent context/dynamics!

Again:

In a solid conductor, the SOLID CONDUCTOR MATERIAL STRUCTURE ITSELF *is not separated*, rather, only charge carriers moving within it are separated; whereas...

In a fluidic plasma, the FLUIDIC PLASMA FLOW-STRUCTURE ITSELF *is separated*, which necessarily FURTHER DETERMINES the ongoing electric/protonic flow structure EVOLUTIONS accordingly, as plasma's 'internal' magnetic fields INTERACTS DYNAMICALLY with 'external' fields from galaxies, jets, winds etc.

Beware 'simplistic equivalences', granville. :)

Mar 16, 2019
RealityCheck
@granville583762.
The Hall Effect..Cantdrive in Obfuscation..
http://hyperphysi...all.html
Careful. That is for 'solid' conductor, NOT 'fluidic' plasma, context.

RealityCheck, everyone wants to answer this point
Although TrollianCastroGiovanni made no attempt to put his twopence worth in
Although The Hall Effect is used in solid conductors, it's the principal
this is CantDrive85's pet project
and has been for some time
it would have been thought
CantDrive85 duty to his pet project
to stand up for it tooth and nail
as you are standing up for field aligned currents in his stead
because, RealityCheck
CantDrive85 description was a quote from Wikipedia in fact cut & paste
Which, RealityCheck after all this time should be known chapter and verse by heart

Mar 16, 2019
Taking this further, RealityCheck

Not so as to dwell on flybys
concerning CantDrive, regarding field aligned currents
since this Hall Effect emerged
we have not seen hide nor hair of CantDrive
CantDrive is becoming equally adept as yourself, RealityCheck
in the black art of flybys
all most as elusive as field aligned currents
and
their perpendicular field aligned plasmatic currents
whether in solids or in vacuum
free electrons drift in accordance with the The Hall Effect
as
what happens next
is
The next chapter in this story

Mar 16, 2019
It is still partially ionized, from wikistupidia;
"The degree of ionization in an HI region is very small at around 10^−4 (i.e. one particle in 10,000)"

Wiki DOES say this, yes.
Even that degree of ionization results in plasma behaviour.

WIki does NOT say this. It is your own assumption.
You are being disingenuous by placing it the way you did in the comment....


Mar 16, 2019
TrollianCastroGiovanni
What the hell are you blathering about? There are no currents. Read the paper, and stop commenting on things that you don't understand

Who said this has got any thing to do with what ever TrollianCastroGiovanni is talking about
what relavance has this got to do with the fact current exist in what ever your talking about

Unless TrollianCastroGiovanni
you
have just undergone yet another metamorphosis
and
turned into TrollianCantDrive85
These currents were about
CantDrive85 description of field aligned currents

TrollianCastroGiovanni, Read the comments and stop commenting on things that you don't understand


Idiot. What the hell are you talking about? There are no currents, you fool. CD is a cretin. He does not understand the subject. Neither do you.

Mar 16, 2019
Careful. That is for 'solid' conductor, NOT 'fluidic' plasma, context.


Wrong, actually. Hall currents occur in plasmas.

https://en.wikipe...ed_gases

Mar 16, 2019
Looks like CD is having a long lie down, contemplating whether to add Verschuur to Falthammar in the list of traitors to the cause! Trouble with CD is that he has plenty of prose, but no science. Which sums EU woo up in a nutshell. And has apparently never read the papers/ publications of the people he quotes. He relies on second hand reporting of such things from con artists like Wallace Thornhill, and the loons at Thunderdolts.

Mar 16, 2019
Seeing as how they are making measurement of the Zeeman effect at the HI (21 cm band) and being able to determine not only alignment but the strength of the field from that, Zeeman splitting effect measures the amount of ionized HI, and since there is no magnetic field without moving ions or electrons, and they are mapping widespread magnetic fields by their HI Plasma signature, I would think you already understood that much DS, no matter jd's new moniker he does not.

The fact that it is more pervasive and actually stronger than they had anticipated means there is a lot for the astrophysicists to learn about magnetism on cosmic scales, but they are getting there as they keep finding it to be more powerful, and in some of the most surprising places, going by some of these papers, not just the article, but the papers behind them, they are more and more surprised and convinced about magnetic effects at large scales and DM keeps coming up with zilch other than placeholding.

Mar 16, 2019
Seeing as how they are making measurement of the Zeeman effect at the HI (21 cm band) and being able to determine not only alignment but the strength of the field from that, Zeeman splitting effect measures the amount of ionized HI, and since there is no magnetic field without moving ions or electrons, and they are mapping widespread magnetic fields by their HI Plasma signature, I would think you already understood that much DS, no matter jd's new moniker he does not.

The fact that it is more pervasive and actually stronger than they had anticipated means there is a lot for the astrophysicists to learn about magnetism on cosmic scales, but they are getting th....yada, yada, yada


Lol. 1.5 nT. Wow! Idiot.

Mar 16, 2019
The Zeeman Effect is only magnetic; the equivalent effect for the electric force is the Stark Effect.

Next?

Mar 16, 2019
Directly from the Paper, and referring to plasma in their equations (thus electrons and ions DS)

"Magnetic pressure is dominant over thermal and turbulent pressures in regions with fibers (Heiles 1989;Dickey & Lockman 1990). The dimensionless properties (i.e. the plasma β, defined as the ratio of thermal pressure to magnetic pressure, and the Alfv ́en Mach number) between striations and fibers are approximately the same. Thus, striations and fibers are likely to share the same formation mechanism" (Quoted from above Paper, not article)

Mar 16, 2019
And, as they state, the increased strength of the magnetic field, while it still seems small, is being acted on over enormous distances, and small acceleration for a long time (over long distance) still equals intensely high velocity.

Their final sentence in the paper before acknowledgements is: " Finally,our results of the strength of the magnetic field haveimportant implications about the nature of cosmic rays."

Especially since they show that the present known magnetic field strength can offset the direction of Protons some 10 degrees or more just within This Galaxy, let alone others it has gone through. (read the paper)

Mar 16, 2019
Still no plasma. Still no currents. Still no electrons. Still no protons. Still no thunderbolts. Still no ions. Still no evidence.

Speculate about whatever you like @Steel. Speculations with no evidence can be dismissed with no evidence.

Mar 16, 2019
The Zeeman Effect is only magnetic; the equivalent effect for the electric force is the Stark Effect.

Yeah, but.... Don't they work complementarily?

Mar 16, 2019
Depends on whether there is a current or not.

Mar 16, 2019
Missed your replies
CantDrive> They are not entirely what they seem, as this system of field-aligned current sheets involves more than just the Hall effect.

Don't fall into the same simplistic trap as jonesdumb, there are multiple magnetic fields lain upon one another. There are large scale magnetic fields which are traversed by this plasma, there are also these smaller scale field-aligned currents which are expected in these inhomogeneous plasmas

Just found your replies

CantDrive, take a solenoid
coil both ends to makes a circular solenoid
the magnetic field now goes through the central radius of the joined solenoid
the magnetic field rotate 90°
emanating through the central torus of the looped solenoid
electron are encircled by its magnetic field
as when in plasmatic current
free electrons in solids
act exactly the same in vacuum
because in solids
the atom is empty space
so this electron
this free electron
Is in a vacuum in this solid

Mar 16, 2019
@Castrogiovanni.
Careful. That is for 'solid' conductor, NOT 'fluidic' plasma, context.


Wrong, actually. Hall currents occur in plasmas.

https://en.wikipe...ed_gases
I never said they didn't, mate. :)

Please re-read the relevant post in context involved; ie, Granville's referenced link was for solid conductors; whereas I pointed out that the Hall effect in space plasmas ALSO affected the conductor itself (the plasma streams/structures), whereas in solid conductor contexts the Hall effect did NOT separate the conductor structure, only the charge carriers. I trust you now discern the subtle but crucial difference involved in Hall effect in solid conductors material versus fluid plasma material/flows, Cg. Thanks though for your trouble in reading/responding politely. Cheers; and good luck in your new 'incarnation', mate. :)

Mar 17, 2019
The Rise Of The Phoenix

RealityCheck, are you discovering TrollianCastroGiovanni's Obfuscation
his art of saying you said what you did not say
his art of Gish Gallop
followed and accompanied by his melodious tones
to think RealityCheck
if only he had kept his tongue in check
you would be addressing TrollianJonesDave
because, RealityCheck
when the inevitable happens
when he can contain himself no longer
when the frustration comes in one almighty expletive of frustration
then, RealityCheck
The Rise Of The Phoenix will rise again

Mar 17, 2019
Field Aligned Currents

Back to this nitty-gritty
when push comes to shove
if asked, did a definitive explanation materialise
as to Field Aligned Currents
as these currents are not normally seen
but unlike blackholes and their accretion disks which have never been seen
Field Aligned Currents have been seen
the contentious point is
exactly how they physically function
how their supporters propose they function
in the context of plasma flow and magnetic fields
because
if an electron has opposite spin to its proton
that in theory will give opposite magnetic polarity
this electron simply flips 180°
so the two magnetic polarities are as one
because to have currents in plasma
a positive and negative charge of the proton and electron are required
perpendicularly encircled by this magnetic field
Which is not Field Aligned Currents

Mar 17, 2019
To give an example of Field Aligned Currents

Our Sun is a ball of plasma
which has a magnetic field
this ball of plasma has a north pole and a south pole
so
whatever electric and magnetic mechanics operate in this solar ball of plasma
this 800,000 mile diameter ball of plasma is pretty definitive
This solar magnetic field is not Field Aligned Current

Mar 17, 2019
This solar wind perpendicularly cuts through this solar magnetic field
as this solar wind is likened to a plasma
this plasma is likened to an electric current
but as it cuts this circular magnetic field
perpendicularly
this solar wind
it is not
A Field Aligned Current

Mar 17, 2019
WIki does NOT say this. It is your own assumption.
You are being disingenuous by placing it the way you did in the comment....

Still no plasma. Still no currents. Still no electrons. Still no protons. Still no thunderbolts. Still no ions. Still no evidence.


"According to Anthony Peratt, Scientific Advisor to the United States Department of Energy and a plasma researcher at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, the discovery was made by computer analyzing large amounts of data gathered by radio telescopes from regions in space known to be occupied by 'neutral clouds of hydrogen.' The data was processed and the results obtained by radio astronomer Gerrit Verschuur, Physics Department, University of Memphis. Verschuur found that the 'neutral hydrogen clouds' were not completely a neutral gas of hydrogen and other elements, but rather consisted of charged particles of electrons and ions, called 'plasma.'"
https://plasmauni...rey.html

Mar 17, 2019
Field Aligned Currents

Back to this nitty-gritty
when push comes to shove
if asked, did a definitive explanation materialise
as to Field Aligned Currents

To accommodate the required brevity, let us allow the experts to describe these field-aligned currents;

https://plasmauni...smic.pdf

Mar 17, 2019
"According to Anthony Peratt, Scientific Advisor to the United States Department of Energy and a plasma researcher at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, the discovery was made by computer analyzing large amounts of data gathered by radio telescopes from regions in space known to be occupied by 'neutral clouds of hydrogen.' The data was processed and the results obtained by radio astronomer Gerrit Verschuur, Physics Department, University of Memphis. Verschuur found that the 'neutral hydrogen clouds' were not completely a neutral gas of hydrogen and other elements, but rather consisted of charged particles of electrons and ions, called 'plasma.'"
https://plasmauni...rey.html


I think you'll find that the 10^-4 ionisation degree is an upper limit. That occurs in the photodissociation region (PDR). Further from there the rate is more like 10^-9.

https://www.aanda...-08.html

Mar 17, 2019
I think you'll find that the 10^-4 ionisation degree is an upper limit. That occurs in the photodissociation region (PDR). Further from there the rate is more like 10^-9

And still, it will behave as a plasma as Peratt explained;
""Verschuur analyzed nearly two thousand clouds, principally from the Aericibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico, but also from other radio telescopes scattered around the globe," said Peratt. Verschuur had previously found, under high resolution computer processing, that the 'clouds' were not clouds at all but were instead filaments of material which twisted and wound like helices over enormous distances between the stars."

The only way to achieve said helical filaments is to have electric currents flowing through the plasma.

Mar 17, 2019
I think you'll find that the 10^-4 ionisation degree is an upper limit. That occurs in the photodissociation region (PDR). Further from there the rate is more like 10^-9

And still, it will behave as a plasma as Peratt explained;
""Verschuur analyzed nearly two thousand clouds, principally from the Aericibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico, but also from other radio telescopes scattered around the globe," said Peratt. Verschuur had previously found, under high resolution computer processing, that the 'clouds' were not clouds at all but were instead filaments of material which twisted and wound like helices over enormous distances between the stars."

The only way to achieve said helical filaments is to have electric currents flowing through the plasma.


Wrong.

Mar 17, 2019
Wrong

You got something, anything to support your blatherings? Cause it ain't in the paper you posted.

Mar 17, 2019
Wrong

You got something, anything to support your blatherings? Cause it ain't in the paper you posted.


You are the one blathering, and you are the one who needs to provide a link to back it up. I need do nothing re your baseless assertions on a comments section. You have already been shown to be wrong on the above paper, so what are you on about now? Stop digging.

Mar 17, 2019
You have already been shown to be wrong on the above paper,

It has been shown the above authors are plasma ignoramuses, as such the paper is meaningless claptrap.

Mar 17, 2019
You have already been shown to be wrong on the above paper,

It has been shown the above authors are plasma ignoramuses, as such the paper is meaningless claptrap.


No, it has not been shown. A clueless crank on a comments section, who cannot distinguish between a Birkeland current and a magnetic flux tube, has made that baseless assertion. As such, that can be safely ignored.

Mar 17, 2019
A paper which describes how jonesdumb's dated beliefs of conductivity in plasmas was shown by direct observation to be wrong almost 50-years-ago, yet he still believes in this nonsense. Keep in mind, the physics which allow these field-aligned currents in planetary phenomena are relevant to astrophysical plasma as well.
https://www.resea...ormation

Mar 17, 2019
A paper which describes how jonesdumb's dated beliefs of conductivity in plasmas was shown by direct observation to be wrong almost 50-years-ago, yet he still believes in this nonsense. Keep in mind, the physics which allow these field-aligned currents in planetary phenomena are relevant to astrophysical plasma as well.
https://www.resea...ormation


There are no currents, field-aligned or otherwise. Read the papers.

Mar 17, 2019
CantDrive, These Field Aligned tenuous filamentary filaments
cantdrive85> To accommodate the required brevity, let us allow the experts to describe these field-aligned currents;
https://plasmauni...smic.pdf

The closest we on Earth
observe Field Aligned Currents
is in the Van Allen Belts
the charged particles spiral the lines of Earth's magnetic field
technically in minutiae, because the charged particles are orbiting the field lines
it is not strictly field aligned
but
presumably as it is spiralling, the solar wind particles
are Field Aligned Currents
if these Van Allen Belts
are extrapolated to between the galaxies
where these galaxies are interlinked by their galactic magnetic fields
this intergalactic tenuous ionised plasma's charged particles
spiral these intergalactic fields stretching billions of lights years
across this galactic vacuum
Which we observe as glowing tenuous strands of plasma

Mar 17, 2019
There are no currents, field-aligned or otherwise. Read the papers.

There must be currents to produce the observed magnetic fields, it is an obvious fact. Magnetic fields are not magic, if the above plasma ignoramuses do not include the currents then there is no way to describe them without resorting to pseudoscientific claptrap.

Mar 17, 2019
There are no currents, field-aligned or otherwise. Read the papers.

There must be currents to produce the observed magnetic fields, it is an obvious fact. Magnetic fields are not magic, if the above plasma ignoramuses do not include the currents then there is no way to describe them without resorting to pseudoscientific claptrap.


Wrong. Where is the current in the IMF? Stop being dim.

Mar 17, 2019
Where is the current in the IMF?

It there, you choose willful ignorance.

Mar 17, 2019
Where is the current in the IMF?

It there, you choose willful ignorance.


No it isn't. Stop lying, and get an education.

Mar 17, 2019
Field Aligned Currents

Spiralling charged particles
There are no currents, field-aligned or otherwise. Read the papers.

cantdrive85> There must be currents to produce the observed magnetic fields, it is an obvious fact. Magnetic fields are not magic, if the above plasma ignoramuses do not include the currents then there is no way to describe them without resorting to pseudoscientific claptrap.

As these Spiralling charged particles
spiral these magnetic field lines
as these charged particle are magnetic fields themselves
by spiralling these magnetic field lines
they reinforce the existing magnetic field line
Thereby increasing the overall magnetic field strength

Mar 17, 2019
I think you'll find that the 10^-4 ionisation degree is an upper limit. That occurs in the photodissociation region (PDR). Further from there the rate is more like 10^-9

And still, it will behave as a plasma as Peratt explained;
""Verschuur analyzed nearly two thousand clouds, principally from the Aericibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico, but also from other radio telescopes scattered around the globe," said Peratt. Verschuur had previously found, under high resolution computer processing, that the 'clouds' were not clouds at all but were instead filaments of material which twisted and wound like helices over enormous distances between the stars."

The only way to achieve said helical filaments is to have electric currents flowing through the plasma.

Or the helixes are produced by the helical action of orbiting bodies...

Mar 18, 2019
Or the helixes are produced by the helical action of orbiting bodies...

The bodies are orbiting and spinning due to the EMF of the Birkeland currents. You have the cart in front of the horse.


Mar 18, 2019
Or the helixes are produced by the helical action of orbiting bodies...

The bodies are orbiting and spinning due to the EMF of the Birkeland currents. You have the cart in front of the horse.

Sorry, but...
Gravity "winds the spring". Everything else is the "load" in the cart...

Mar 18, 2019
Where is the current in the IMF?


It there, you choose willful ignorance.


No it isn't. Stop lying, and get an education.

Of course it is there jonesdumb. Just look to the Kp index, it is evidence of the electric currents in the solar wind. It's why heightened Kp events are associated with higher activity auroral events.

Mar 18, 2019
Sorry, but...
Gravity "winds the spring". Everything else is the "load" in the cart...

The weakest of the forces "winds the spring"? No, as Alfvén said;
"Gravitational systems are the 'ashes' of prior electrical systems."

Mar 18, 2019
There must be currents to produce the observed magnetic fields,


Where's the external current driving a permanent magnet? There is none you dope.

Mar 18, 2019
Birkeland currents in definition

Field Aligned Currents
Spiralling charged particles
Birkeland currents

< When a charged particle spirals a magnetic field line, it is likened to a solenoid around a field line
so this charged particles magnetic field becomes part of the total magnetic field line
This Spiralling charged particle is not strictly a Field Aligned Current >

< A Field Aligned Current is strictly a current that is not spiralling magnetic field lines, but flowing linearly alongside parallel to the magnetic field line >

Because Spiralling charged particles are what produce Bremsstrahlung radiation

The point is
Is a Birkeland currant

A: Field Aligned Current flowing parallel alongside a magnetic field line?
Or
B: Spiralling charged particles around a magnetic field line?

Mar 18, 2019
Where is the current in the IMF?


It there, you choose willful ignorance.


No it isn't. Stop lying, and get an education.

Of course it is there jonesdumb. Just look to the Kp index, it is evidence of the electric currents in the solar wind. It's why heightened Kp events are associated with higher activity auroral events.


Rubbish. That is the magnetosphere, you rube. The solar wind is not a current. Go back to school, you fool.

Mar 18, 2019
That is the magnetosphere, you rube

I know the K-index are measurements of earthbound magnetometers, yet why then are there auroras associated with Kp events? Aurora are driven by electric currents. Geomagnetospheric storms are not magic jonesdumb, electric currents cause them. Who puts your pants on in the morning?

Mar 18, 2019
That is the magnetosphere, you rube

I know the K-index are measurements of earthbound magnetometers, yet why then are there auroras associated with Kp events? Aurora are driven by electric currents. Geomagnetospheric storms are not magic jonesdumb, electric currents cause them. Who puts your pants on in the morning?


Fool. You mean that you don't understand that the currents are induced due to the interaction between the solar wind and the Earth's magnetosphere? Have you no understanding of the auroral process whatsoever? That would appear to be a rhetorical question. The solar wind is not a current. The Sun would charge up otherwise, and the plasma would quickly react to neutralise that charge. You really should read up on these things before making ignorant comments.

Mar 18, 2019
You mean that you don't understand that the currents are induced due to the interaction between the solar wind and the Earth's magnetosphere?

Induced by the electric currents in the SW, it's not being induced by magic.

Mar 18, 2019
You mean that you don't understand that the currents are induced due to the interaction between the solar wind and the Earth's magnetosphere?

Induced by the electric currents in the SW, it's not being induced by magic.


Wrong. There is no current. It is induced, you fool. Go read a book on magnetospheric processes. You haven't a clue what you are talking about. Your knowledge of the subject is poor to non-existent.

Mar 18, 2019
There is no current. It is induced,

Magic it is then, according to jonesdumb.

Mar 18, 2019
There is no current. It is induced,

Magic it is then, according to jonesdumb.


Why don't you go and read a book or paper on the subject, instead of spouting total nonsense on here? Why are you here? It only seems magic to idiots like you because you do not understand the subject area.

Basically, when the planet is hit by an interplanetary mass ejection, or encounters a transition between slow and fast wind or - more frequently - a gentler perturbation, the magnetosphere is distorted and electric currents are induced, producing changes in the magnetic field (the geomagnetic activity), radio emissions, and a number of nuisances, such as breakdowns of power stations and loss of orbiting satellites.


https://www.cambr...C54629C7

Mar 18, 2019
This solar wind

Charged Particles in Motion in Electric and Magnetic Fields
a stream of charged particles
released from the upper atmosphere of the Suns corona
where this plasma consists of electrons, protons and alpha particles
embedded within the solar-wind plasma is the interplanetary magnetic field
Sounds like field aligned currents or Birkeland currents

Concerning this solar wind
Charged Particles in Motion in Electric and Magnetic Fields
jonesy> Rubbish. That is the magnetosphere, you rube. The solar wind is not a current. Go back to school, you fool

< According to Professor Jonesy - Charged particles in motion is not current >

Mar 18, 2019
Charged particles in motion is not current


Fool. What is the net current for a parcel of flowing plasma, defined below;

+ - + - + - + - + - ?

Take your time.


Mar 18, 2019
It can't be
its not possible
only jonesy describes flowing plasma
charged particles in motion
is jonesy
describing
plasma
as
Quasi-neutral

Mar 18, 2019
It can't be
its not possible
only jonesy describes flowing plasma
charged particles in motion
is jonesy
describing
plasma
as
Quasi-neutral


What are you talking about? You do not understand the subject. Go away.

Mar 18, 2019
What is the net current for a parcel of flowing plasma, defined below;

+ - + - + - + - + - ?

Irrelevant example, meaningless blather.

Mar 18, 2019
What is the net current for a parcel of flowing plasma, defined below;

+ - + - + - + - + - ?

Irrelevant example, meaningless blather.


No it is not, you untutored fool. Go read some books on plasma physics. Your lack of knowledge of the subject is appalling.

Mar 18, 2019
In the magnetosphere;

The coupling is thought to act through electric currents, driven by the electric field Ew ***induced by the solar wind*** (which is approximately conserved at the shock and in the magnetosheath), producing some kind of dynamo.


https://www.cambr...C54629C7

Now, to counter that, let's see some scientific references to the solar wind being a current.

Hint; there aren't any.


Mar 18, 2019
producing some kind of dynamo...

Yep, they really know what they are talking about, don't they. "Some kind of dynamo"! Plasma ignoramuses anyone?

Mar 18, 2019
producing some kind of dynamo...

Yep, they really know what they are talking about, don't they. "Some kind of dynamo"! Plasma ignoramuses anyone?


And you haven't got a clue about the subject, and have provided zero science to back up your idiotic beliefs. Ignoramus, anyone?

Mar 18, 2019
The composition of the solar wind

Composed of ionized hydrogen, electrons and protons
C, N, O, Ne, Mg, Si, S, and Fe pulled apart by the heat of the Sun's outer atmosphere
SOHO identified P, Ti, Cr and Ni
solar wind isotopes Fe 54 and 56; Ni 58,60,62
the solar wind consists almost exclusively of charged particles
is an excellent electrical conductor
Electrically conducting particle plasma

There appears more ionised hydrogen, helium and assorted ionised elements
than electrons, helium and hydrogen ions have more positive charge than there are electrons
plus the countless ionised trace elements
as the positive ions and electrons flow as individual ions
an ion in motion is a current
because looking at these ions in minutiae
this -electron is a currant
as
This ++ion is a current

Mar 18, 2019
There appears more ionised hydrogen, helium and assorted ionised elements
than electrons, helium and hydrogen ions have more positive charge than there are electrons
plus the countless ionised trace elements.


Don't be stupid Granville. Difficult, I know, but at least try. For every H+ there is 1 electron. For every He++ there are two electrons. Et cetera. Please stop commenting on things that you don't understand. It is tiresome.

Mar 18, 2019
First of all these ions are not mixing
because
if they were they would not be ions
and
secondly
the electrons that are in this solar wind
being less massive
being that they are not mixing with the ++ions
being lighter are accelerated to higher velocities
these electrons
are separated by their velocity
into
two streams within this solar wind
Of separate positive and negative streams of current

Mar 18, 2019
First of all these ions are not mixing
because
if they were they would not be ions
and
secondly
the electrons that are in this solar wind
being less massive
being that they are not mixing with the ++ions
being lighter are accelerated to higher velocities
these electrons
are separated by their velocity
into
two streams within this solar wind
Of separate positive and negative streams of current


Wrong. You are clueless. Now go away, because you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.

Mar 18, 2019
@Castrogiovanni.
@granville583762.
First of all these ions are not mixing
because
if they were they would not be ions
and
secondly
the electrons that are in this solar wind
being less massive
being that they are not mixing with the ++ions
being lighter are accelerated to higher velocities
these electrons
are separated by their velocity
into
two streams within this solar wind
Of separate positive and negative streams of current


Wrong. You are clueless. Now go away, because you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
In this instance, it would be prudent for you to pause and reconsider what Granville actually said, mate. I suggest you take time to recall all the times I and mainstream reports here in PO have highlighted/explained the "FAST ELECTRON" currents that arise in plasma flows/structures; which then EFFECTIVELY leads to further 'charge-separation/sorting' phenomena/structures/flows within said plasma. It's complex. :)

Mar 18, 2019
Numerically, LD ≃ 69 SQRT T/n in SI units, which comes to about 10 m in the solar wind at 1 AU from the Sun (n �Ľ 5 × 106 m−3, T �Ľ 10^5 K). Therefore, we have not to worry about the quasi-neutrality of the solar wind, except when dealing with scales smaller than tens of metres - a problem that occurs in the environment of space probes.


From;

Basics of the Solar Wind
N. Meyer-Vernet
https://www.cambr...C54629C7

You're welcome. However, you can lead a crank to science, but you can't force it to read it nor understand it.


Mar 18, 2019
Link from above comment disappeared after editing. That happens a fair bit.

Basics of the Solar Wind
https://www4.zipp...ile.html

Mar 18, 2019
Anybody in the UK who wants that book, and can't access zippyshare (seems to be blocked currently; intentionally or otherwise), let me know and I'll upload it elsewhere.

Mar 18, 2019
@Castrogiovanni.
Numerically, LD ≃ 69 SQRT T/n in SI units, which comes to about 10 m in the solar wind at 1 AU from the Sun (n ď��Ä� 5 × 106 m−3, T ď��Ä� 10^5 K). Therefore, we have not to worry about the quasi-neutrality of the solar wind, except when dealing with scales smaller than tens of metres - a problem that occurs in the environment of space probes.
From;

Basics of the Solar Wind
N. Meyer-Vernet
https://www.cambr...C54629C7

You're welcome....
Is that by any chance a response to mine, mate? If so, can you please include your relevant comments to clarify what point it is you are trying to make by that linked reference?

ps: My computer setup will not establish a secure connection with that site.

pps: Does that by any chance relate to Debye Length parameters, mate? :)

Mar 18, 2019
Since charges of opposite signs attract each other, whereas charges of like signs
repel each other, the Coulomb force tends to establish electric neutrality. The
random agitation, however, mixes the particles, destroying this neutrality. The
competition between both effects produces small regions that are non-neutral.
The hotter the plasma, the greater the agitation and therefore the larger the
maximum size of the non-neutral regions. On the other hand, the denser the
medium, the greater the Coulomb force that keeps the plasma neutral, and
therefore the smaller the size of the non-neutral regions.
To estimate this size, consider a region of size L in which the electrons are
strongly depleted, so that it contains a total electric charge of order of magnitude
Q ~ ne×L^3. This produces an electric potential at the boundary of the region,
of order of magnitude......(equations, maths, that cranks won't understand)


To sum up, Debye length in the SW = ~ 10m.

Mar 18, 2019
These Solar Wind electric currents, just one more km

There you are jonesy
you even admit
solar wind electric currents your self
as granville only said in minutiae
where as
jonsey admitted to tens of metres
which in jonesy speak could be km's, tens of km's, 100, 1000 km's
in other words jonesy
what goes tens of km's
goes another tens of km's
then some more
then before you know it
Termination Shock is reached
Where these solar wind electric currents go yet another few tens of km's

Mar 18, 2019
Should a charge separation occur in a plasma, an ambipolar field will be created, which essentially accelerates one charge sign, and retards the other sign, to maintain quasi-neutrality. The denser the plasma, the smaller will be the Debye length. Any displacement of one charge to from the other results in a restoring force. This is observed as the plasma frequency.


Mar 18, 2019
These Solar Wind electric currents, just one more km

There you are jonesy
you even admit
solar wind electric currents your self
as granville only said in minutiae
where as
jonsey admitted to tens of metres
which in jonesy speak could be km's, tens of km's, 100, 1000 km's
in other words jonesy
what goes tens of km's
goes another tens of km's
then some more
then before you know it
Termination Shock is reached
Where these solar wind electric currents go yet another few tens of km's


Stop talking nonsense, you fool. I uploaded the book. Read it, and do the calculations. And stop lying. It cannot be kilometers, and you will find not a single scientist claiming such a thing. Why do you comment on things that are beyond your intellectual abilities?

Mar 18, 2019
Should a charge separation occur in a plasma, an ambipolar field will be created, which essentially accelerates one charge sign, and retards the other sign, to maintain quasi-neutrality. The denser the plasma, the smaller will be the Debye length. Any displacement of one charge to from the other results in a restoring force. This is observed as the plasma frequency.



To simplify; as a displacement of one charge from another occurs for multiple particles, the Coulomb force will act to pull the oppositely charged particles back together again. However, there is nothing to stop them overshooting a wee bit, and then be pulled back again. And on it goes. This is the plasma frequency. The plasma frequency can be used to calculate the electron density.

Mar 18, 2019
@Castrogiovanni.
@granville583762.
what goes tens of km's
goes another tens of km's
then some more
then before you know it
Termination Shock is reached
Where these solar wind electric currents go yet another few tens of km's
Stop talking nonsense, you fool. I uploaded the book. Read it, and do the calculations. And stop lying. It cannot be kilometers, and you will find not a single scientist claiming such a thing
Again, mate, be more prudent re insults to Granville in this instance. :)

FYI, @Cg: Debye Length in OVERALL solar-wind context NOT 'simplistic' as old/lab experiments and near-satellite 'measurements' would imply; as SW involves EXTREMELY ENERGETIC FAST ELECTRONS which DESTABILISE 'electrostatic order' when Fast Electrons move along SELF-SORTING/SELF-REINFORCING 'layers' of charges which CREATE their own magnetic field 'structures' (involving much LONGER Db-lengths) which interact with solar magnetic field patterns. Like I said before: COMPLEX. :)

Mar 18, 2019
As if to prove the point of solar wind electric currents go yet another few tens of km's, jonesy
a problem that occurs in the environment of space probes

Unless you've forgotten jonesy dear
last time we looked the Earth is orbiting that round yellow orby thingy
93million miles away
where
according to your calculations, jonesy dear
this solar wind electric current only travels tens of metres
but
after travelling 93million miles
it travels a few tens of metres more
and plays havoc with our space probes
it
is Time jonesy dear
to take some Time out
hang your flat cap on peg by door
then in your armchair with your slippers
Light your pipe in front of the fire

Mar 18, 2019
As if to prove the point of solar wind electric currents go yet another few tens of km's, jonesy
a problem that occurs in the environment of space probes

Unless you've forgotten jonesy dear
last time we looked the Earth is orbiting that round yellow orby thingy
93million miles away
where
according to your calculations, jonesy dear
this solar wind electric current only travels tens of metres
but
after travelling 93million
it travels a few tens of metres more
and plays havoc with our space probes
it
is Time jonesy dear
to take some Time out
hang your flat cap on peg by door
then in your armchair with your slippers
Light your pipe in front of the fire


Idiot. A spacecraft becomes charged due to the mobility of electrons compared to ions. In other words, it is struck by more electrons than ions. Now sod off, you untutored fool. You are massively out of your depth.

Mar 18, 2019
is Time jonesy dear


For you to stop talking out of your uneducated arse, you clown. Go to school. Then go to university. Get some qualifications. Firstly get another 30-40 IQ points from your fairy godmother.

Mar 18, 2019
@Castrogiovanni.
@granville583762.

Idiot. A spacecraft becomes charged due to the mobility of electrons compared to ions. In other words, it is struck by more electrons than ions. Now sod off, you untutored fool.
Mate, by your previous 'arguments' and logic, this would not be possible; since, IF the satellite starts out neutral AND the SW plasma is quasi-neutral, THEN EQUAL STRENGTHS of positive/negative charges (ie, more electrons but more-highly-ionised atoms etc) would be hitting the satellite. But then you just admitted that the Electrons are MORE MOBILE, which is exactly what the FAST ELECTRON phenomena is all about, as has been explained to you by me and many PO articles more recently. It seems that your 'arguments' are the stage of 'wanting it both ways', mate. :)

ps: Calm down, mate; you are reverting more and more to your old (@jonesdave) behaviour; ie, knee jerking to insults instead of reading/understanding properly what Granville has just said. Cool it. :)

Mar 18, 2019
More electrons than ions, becoming charged
Idiot. A spacecraft becomes charged due to the mobility of electrons compared to ions. In other words, it is struck by more electrons than ions. Now sod off, you untutored fool. You are massively out of your depth

So it's not quasi-neutral after all

p.s. struck by moving electrons becoming charged, well that's one way of describing electric currents

Mar 18, 2019
There is no current. It is induced, you fool. Go read a book on magnetospheric processes

Induced by jonesdumb type magical processes then.

What regarding the SW is inducing these currents then?

Birkeland was quite clear how it happened, as he stated in 1908;
"I expressed for the first time my belief that the northern lights are formed by corpuscular rays drawn in from space, and coming from the sun"
Corpuscular rays are streams of charged particles, also known as electric currents. Birkeland was correct over 100-years ago, you still don't get it.

Mar 18, 2019
To sum up, Debye length in the SW = ~ 10m.

The denser the plasma, the smaller will be the Debye length.

Read it, and do the calculations. And stop lying. It cannot be kilometers, and you will find not a single scientist...

I have pointed this out to you already, Cassini directly measured an electric discharge from Hyperion of over 500km. Recalculating....
From the paper;
"Hyperion is exposed to plasma conditions representative of the outer magnetosphere, magnetosheath, or solar wind..."
"...the Electron Reflectometer instrument on board the Lunar Prospector spacecraft, Halekas et al. [2002] found evidence of field‐aligned upward going electron beams originating from the lunar night side."
observations made by the RPWS instrument indicate the presence of electrostatic wave activity that is consistent with the presence of an electron beam."
https://agupubs.o...GL061127

Last I checked, 500km > 10m.

Mar 18, 2019
More examples of violation of the Debye length;
Electric double layers in Van Allen belts, million volts over 700km. 700km > 10m

Mar 18, 2019
"Flux tubes" (AKA Birkeland currents) connecting Io-Jupiter and Enceladus-Saturn, slightly more than 10m.
https://www.scien...08003358
http://www.astron...nceladus

Mar 18, 2019
Flux transfer events connecting the Sun to the Earth; 93,000,000mi > 10m
https://science.n...oct_ftes

Mar 19, 2019
Flux transfer events connecting the Sun to the Earth; 93,000,000mi > 10m
https://science.n...oct_ftes


Idiot. They are not connecting the Sun to the Earth. Read the paper instead of the PR. Fool. An FTE is magnetic reconnection, you rube.

Mar 19, 2019
"Flux tubes" (AKA Birkeland currents) connecting Io-Jupiter and Enceladus-Saturn, slightly more than 10m.
https://www.scien...08003358


Not the solar wind, which is getting nowhere near Jupiter, you idiot. Again, this is in a magnetosphere, and is due to the magnetic field of Jupiter moving more quickly than Io does in its orbit. This creates a v x B current. Ditto at Saturn.

Mar 19, 2019
More examples of violation of the Debye length;
Electric double layers in Van Allen belts, million volts over 700km. 700km > 10m


Magnetosphere again, dummy. Lern to scienz.

Mar 19, 2019
The last three examples showed plasma regimes denser than the SW, by your claims the Debye length should be less than 10m.
And yes, FTE's connect the Sun and Earth unless you are calling the scientists liars. The observations show these flux tubes (AKA Birkeland currents) reach all the way back to the Sun.

Mar 19, 2019
The last three examples showed plasma regimes denser than the SW, by your claims the Debye length should be less than 10m.


And you do not understand that we are dealing with two different plasmas, and two different magnetic fields interacting. Lern to scienz, dummy.

And yes, FTE's connect the Sun and Earth unless you are calling the scientists liars. The observations show these flux tubes (AKA Birkeland currents) reach all the way back to the Sun.


No they do not, you liar. Read the papers. They are induced due to the interaction of the SW with the magnetosphere. Get an education, you poser.

Mar 19, 2019
No they do not, you liar. Read the papers.

Now NASA scientists are liars and articles posted on NASA websites are not true, according to jonesdumb.

Mar 19, 2019
No they do not, you liar. Read the papers.

Now NASA scientists are liars and articles posted on NASA websites are not true, according to jonesdumb.


It is a PR, you fool. Read the papers. The connection is talking about the solar wind, which comes from the Sun. The interesting bit is the induced magnetic reconnection that causes the FTEs. You really need to understand more about the subject before making comments on it.

Mar 19, 2019
When an interplanetary magnetic field (IMF) line reconnects with a closed geomagnetic field line, two open magnetic field lines in opposite hemispheres are formed, giving rise to FTEs seen in both hemispheres. Subsequently,the two open field lines reconnect with each other again in the equatorial plane to form a closed magnetic field line and a magnetic field line disconnected from the Earth. The simultaneous presence of an FTE inside the magnetospheric boundary layer and a magnetic island in the magnetosheath is what is expected for the second stage of reconnection.


Reconstruction of a flux transfer event based on observations from five THEMIS satellites
Lui, A. T. Y. et al.
https://agupubs.o...JA013189

Mar 19, 2019
It is a PR, you fool. Read the papers.

A NASA press release where they are deliberately lying to the public, according to jonesdumb.

jonesdumb's continued obfuscation relies on referring to a paper "based on observations from five THEMIS satellites" to deny a phenomenon not measured by said satellites because of their proximity. He glosses over the fact that ground based observation was able to deduce these "magnetic portals" reached all the way back to the Sun, but what do ground based observations have to do with "observations from five THEMIS satellites". Nothing, they aren't relevant to this particular paper, which in no means they do not exist.
This is the same type of obfuscation used to deny the existence of 'STEVE' type auroras for decades, it is obviously a real phenomenon, but according to jonesdumb since it wasn't "in the literature" it didn't really exist. Take the blinders off jonesdumb, there is a big world beyond the scientific literature.

Mar 19, 2019
Magnetosphere again, dummy. Lern to scienz.

And the Earth is within the Sun's magnetosphere. Scienz much?

Mar 19, 2019
Magnetosphere again, dummy. Lern to scienz.

And the Earth is within the Sun's magnetosphere. Scienz much?


Idiot. The Sun has a magnetic field, the IMF. It is carried by the solar wind. Just stop talking crap, and actually back up your idiotic assertions with some scientific papers. You just make crap up. It is tiresome. And sad.

Mar 19, 2019
He glosses over the fact that ground based observation was able to deduce these "magnetic portals" reached all the way back to the Sun, but what do ground based observations have to do with "observations from five THEMIS satellites"


More lies. Papers please.

Take the blinders off jonesdumb, there is a big world beyond the scientific literature.


Really? And where would that be? Links please. Stop lying. And do not link to pseudoscience crap.

Mar 19, 2019
The Sun has a magnetic field, the IMF

So now the Sun doesn't have a magnetosphere, according to jonesdumb.

Mar 19, 2019
The Sun has a magnetic field, the IMF

So now the Sun doesn't have a magnetosphere, according to jonesdumb.


A magnetosphere is a phenomenon of planets, caused by the interaction of the planet's magnetic field interacting with the solar magnetic field.

https://science.n...nosphere

Otherwise, I have no idea what you are blathering about. You appear to be clueless on the subject. I would suggest reading up on it. The only connection going on is when the solar magnetic field reconnects with the Earth's magnetic field, allowing the solar wind to penetrate the magnetosphere.

http://sci-hub.se...)00965-5

Mar 19, 2019
A magnetosphere is a phenomenon of planets,

jonesdumb wrong again, like a broken record...

"A star with a magnetic field will generate a magnetosphere that extends outward into the surrounding space. Field lines from this field originate at one magnetic pole on the star then end at the other pole, forming a closed loop."
https://en.m.wiki...ic_field

The IMF, jonesdumb, are the fields created by the SW. The Sun's magnetosphere is the primary large scale magnetic field created by the solar body itself.


Mar 19, 2019
The IMF, jonesdumb, are the fields created by the SW. The Sun's magnetosphere is the primary large scale magnetic field created by the solar body itself.


Yes. And? We know all about the IMF. It is carried outward by the solar wind. What has this got to do with the price of fish? When the IMF and SW encounter another body, interesting things happen. There is shed loads in the scientific literature about it. Interactions with magnetised planets, such as Earth, Jupiter and Saturn. And with unmagnetised planets, such as Mars and Venus. With other bodies, such as comets and asteroids. All jolly interesting. However, this has nothing to do with the SW (not) being a current. And the SW does not create the IMF, you dolt. It is carried by it. The field is created by the Sun.
You really do need to get yourself an education.

Mar 19, 2019
Yes. And? We know all about the IMF. It is carried outward by the solar wind. What has this got to do with the price of fish? When the IMF and SW encounter another body, interesting things happen...
However, this has nothing to do with the SW (not) being a current. And the SW does not create the IMF, you dolt. It is carried by it. The field is created by the Sun.

I know "MF" (my wife calls me one all the time - badump-bump), but what does the "I" stand for?
And... what is "STEVE"?
And... it is "extended" by the CONTENT of the solar wind...

Mar 19, 2019
IMF = Interplanetary Magnetic Field

"STEVE"?

https://en.m.wiki...nomenon)

STEVE is an example of the difference of science and reality. Per the scientific community, STEVE did not exist until 2016, merely because a paper hadn't been written explaining it. In reality, it is there regardless of the presence of paper.

it is "extended" by the CONTENT of the solar wind...

It is created by the currents of the SW. Not sure why you folks think James Maxwell Clark can be ignored, almost 200-years-ago he showed there are no magnetic fields without an electric current generating them.

Mar 20, 2019
Solar "jets" (AKA Birkeland currents) impacting the magnetosphere;
https://www.scien...c-field/

Mar 20, 2019
Solar "jets" (AKA Birkeland currents) impacting the magnetosphere;
https://www.scien...c-field/


Wrong. They are not currents. Stop lying.

Direct observations of a surface eigenmode of the dayside magnetopause
Archer, M. O. et al.
https://www.natur...ag%3D%3D

This lying is getting tiresome.

Mar 20, 2019
IMF = Interplanetary Magnetic Field

"STEVE"?

https://en.m.wiki...nomenon)

STEVE is an example of the difference of science and reality. Per the scientific community, STEVE did not exist until 2016, merely because a paper hadn't been written explaining it. In reality, it is there regardless of the presence of paper.

it is "extended" by the CONTENT of the solar wind...

It is created by the currents of the SW. Not sure why you folks think James Maxwell Clark can be ignored, almost 200-years-ago he showed there are no magnetic fields without an electric current generating them.


More lying. This phenomenon is not created bty currents in the solar wind. Read the paper, and quit with this lying.

http://sci-hub.se...GL078509

It is likely an induced effect in the ionosphere.

Mar 20, 2019
Yes. And? We know all about the IMF. It is carried outward by the solar wind. What has this got to do with the price of fish? When the IMF and SW encounter another body, interesting things happen...
However, this has nothing to do with the SW (not) being a current. And the SW does not create the IMF, you dolt. It is carried by it. The field is created by the Sun.

I know "MF" (my wife calls me one all the time - badump-bump), but what does the "I" stand for?
And... what is "STEVE"?
And... it is "extended" by the CONTENT of the solar wind...


Interplanetary Magnetic Field. Produced by the Sun, and essentially frozen-in to the solar wind, which carries the IMF outward to the heliopause.

Mar 20, 2019
STEVE is an example of the difference of science and reality. Per the scientific community, STEVE did not exist until 2016, merely because a paper hadn't been written explaining it. In reality, it is there regardless of the presence of paper.


That's akin to how the unscientific community claims black holes don't exist until photographic evidence is produced.

Mar 20, 2019
Produced by the Sun, and essentially frozen-in to the solar wind, which carries the IMF outward to the heliopause.

jonesdumb still promoting pseudoscientific claptrap as relevant science. Alfvén described the frozen-in condition as being pseudo nonsense 30 years ago yet here is jonesdumb still believing in it.

Mar 20, 2019
That's akin to how the unscientific community claims black holes don't exist until photographic evidence is produced.

There is a huge difference here, STEVE was actually observed whereas no BH has ever been observed. It actually the opposite, where papers deem it to be real without observational evidence.

Mar 20, 2019
That's akin to how the unscientific community claims black holes don't exist until photographic evidence is produced.

There is a huge difference here, STEVE was actually observed whereas no BH has ever been observed. It actually the opposite, where papers deem it to be real without observational evidence.

Mar 20, 2019
That's akin to how the unscientific community claims black holes don't exist until photographic evidence is produced.

There is a huge difference here, STEVE was actually observed whereas no BH has ever been observed. It actually the opposite, where papers deem it to be real without observational evidence.