What magnetic fields can tell us about life on other planets

What magnetic fields can tell us about life on other planets
An artist’s concept of a super-Earth in the habitable zone of a star smaller and cooler than the sun. Such large planets could have long-lasting magma oceans that generate magnetic fields capable of protecting incipient life. The graphic was created to model Kepler-62f, one of many exoplanets discovered by NASA’s now inoperable Kepler space telescope. Credit: NASA Ames/JPL-Caltech/Tim Pyle

Every school kid knows that Earth has a magnetic field – it's what makes compasses align north-south and lets us navigate the oceans. It also protects the atmosphere, and thus life, from the sun's powerful wind.

But what about other Earth-like planets in the galaxy? Do they also have magnetic fields to protect emerging life?

A new analysis looks at one type of exoplanet – super-Earths up to five times the size of our own planet – and concludes that they probably do have a magnetic field, but one generated in a totally novel way: by the planets' magma oceans.

The surprising discovery that slowly churning melted rock at or under the surface can generate a strong magnetic field also suggests that in Earth's early years, when it was largely a lump of melted rock, it also had a magma-generated magnetic field. This was in addition to its present-day field, which is generated in the liquid-iron outer core.

"This is a new regime for the generation of planetary magnetic fields," said Burkhard Militzer, a UC Berkeley professor of earth and planetary science. "Our magnetic field on Earth is generated in the liquid outer iron core. On Jupiter, it arises from the convection of liquid metallic hydrogen. On Uranus and Neptune, it is assumed to be generated in the ice layers. Now we have added molten rocks to this diverse list of field-generating materials."

The link between a planet's interior and its magnetic field also provides a way for astronomers to learn about the makeup and ages of exoplanets too far away to visit.

"This is far in the future, but if someone makes an observation of an exoplanet and they find a magnetic field, that may be an indication that there is a magma ocean, even if they cannot see this directly," Militzer said.

The conclusions also have implications for chances for life on other planets. As magma oceans cool from the top, a surface hospitable to life could appear while the melted mantle continues to churn.

"A magnetic field is helpful in protecting a planetary atmosphere from being blown away by the stellar winds," said former UC Berkeley postdoctoral fellow François Soubiran, now at the École Normale Supérieure in Lyon, France. "Most of the super-Earths we are detecting now are very close to their host stars and exposed to very strong stellar winds. Thus, the possibility for a magnetic field to exist is definitely a key component in the evolution of the planet and its habitability."

Soubiran and Militzer published their findings Sept. 24 in the journal Nature Communications.

Earth's internal dynamo

The magnetic field of Earth today is generated in the molten-iron outer core, where rising and sinking masses of electrically conducting liquid iron, combined with the planet's spin, create a dynamo and a persistent magnetic field.

What magnetic fields can tell us about life on other planets
Layers of a possible super-Earth. The heat of formation of such a large planet could keep its magma oceans active for a billion years, generating its own magnetic field in addition to the magnetic field produced by an iron core. Credit: NASA

But the rocky Earth was molten after its initial formation 4.5 billion years ago, and some layers may have remained molten and convecting – like boiling water, only slower – for millions of years after its birth. Could the slowly convecting magma ocean have generated a magnetic field akin to the one generated in the iron core today?

The same question arose after super-Earths were discovered around other stars. Super-Earths are so massive that their interior, the mantle, should remain liquid and convecting for a few billion years after formation.

In both cases, the slowly boiling magma on a spinning planet can generate a only if the liquid rock conducts electricity.

No one knew if this was true.

Experiments on – a term referring to the thousands of silicon-based minerals that make up Earth's rocky interior – at the high temperatures and pressures inside a super-Earth are difficult. Even establishing whether a rock remains solid or becomes liquid is not straightforward at the conditions typical of planetary interiors: temperatures of 10,000 Celsius and pressures 10 million times that of the air around us.

"At standard temperatures and pressures, silicates are completely insulating; the electrons are either tightly bound to the nuclei or they are in molecular bonds and not able to freely move and create macroscopic electric currents," Soubiran said. "Even if the high internal pressure helps reduce the barriers for the electrons to move, it was not necessarily obvious silicates would be conducting in super-Earths."

But Soubiran and Militzer had access to atomic-scale computer models of minerals that allowed them to calculate the of, in this case, quartz (silicon dioxide), magnesia () and a silicon-magnesium-oxide (post-perovskite), all of which are common in rocks on Earth, the moon and probably all of our solar system's planets.

After performing lengthy calculations for each of the three, they discovered that these silicates become modestly conducting when they change from solid to liquid at and pressures. When they plugged the conductivities into models of Earth's interior, they discovered that the rocks were sufficiently conducting to sustain a dynamo and thus a magnetic field.

"Our calculations showed that the disorganized structure of the liquid helped the electrons become conducting," Soubiran said. Liquid silicates at 10,000 Celsius and 10 million atmospheres of pressure have only about one-hundredth the conductivity of liquid iron, for example.

Soubiran noted that planets rotating with a period of two days or more would generate an Earth-like magnetic field: a dipole field with a clear north and south. Slower rotation, however, could create a more disorganized field that would be harder to detect from afar.

Bruce Buffett, a UC Berkeley expert on the dynamics of Earth's interior who was not involved in the research, said that planets can generate magnetic fields only if they have the right balance of electrical conductivity and fluid velocity to create the feedback necessary to sustain a magnetic field.

"The expectation of many geophysicists was that, at least under Earth conditions, the conductivity of liquid silicates would fall more into the category of, well, if you had really, really large fluid motions to compensate for a low conductivity, you might have a ," said Buffett, a professor of and planetary science. "This is the first detailed calculation for higher temperature and pressure conditions, and it finds that the conductivities appear to be a little bit higher, so the fluid motions you would need to make this all work are maybe a little bit less extreme."


Explore further

Magma ocean may be responsible for the moon's early magnetic field

More information: François Soubiran et al. Electrical conductivity and magnetic dynamos in magma oceans of Super-Earths, Nature Communications (2018). DOI: 10.1038/s41467-018-06432-6
Journal information: Nature Communications

Citation: What magnetic fields can tell us about life on other planets (2018, November 21) retrieved 19 May 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2018-11-magnetic-fields-life-planets.html
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Nov 21, 2018
We live on a water planet!..70% above and even more inside the earth.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.


Nov 21, 2018
We live on a water planet!..70% above and even more inside the earth.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.



"Shit happened" is not a scientific theory.

Nov 21, 2018
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Nov 21, 2018
Like it said, it all started in the water. What shreds of the thoughts concerning it all back when nobody had the benefit of a higher education, a telescope, etc. Plenty to do as well, so it's a wonder they got anywhere, and they got pretty far, so did a lot of other cultures, before whoever invaded them burnt it all in pure envy.
We have a pretty firm hold on "how" now, with the exception of an explanation for the existence of Life at all, as we peer around at the awry clockwork of stars, slavishly devoted to the laws of physics, and we're the only ones with stop watches. If the Universe somehow spawned us; WHY?
Life gives the finger to all pf physic's laws; curling when a straight line would do, swimming upstream instead of taking the free ride down, reproducing, so that it is unclear which, the egg or its source, preceded the other. Did Life precede the Universe? Or the other way 'round? If we are God's children, could the Universe just be a toy He thought we'd like?

Nov 21, 2018
@mollycruz
All very good questions.

There are answers somewhere for some of them -
and for some there are no answers anywhere.
It's best to just take everything with a 'grain of salt, considering that there's not much we can do but bravely carry on. For each of us a wealth of knowledge to learn before we're gone
Swimming upstream is what most humans are known to do,
for if you become too complacent and lose the will to succeed and to excel -
then you are not truly alive, but just a shell.

Cheers.
--S_E_U

Nov 22, 2018
1
-article about life on other planets
-(catholic comment): god blah blah
-(normal comment): dafuq are you sayin???
and so on

2
-article about actual biology topic
-(0 comments)

Nov 22, 2018
For all the stuporstitious malingering on a Science site... The deity and I have discussed a variety of these issues, The deity likes to poke fun at me for being a materialist atheist. I amuse myself by poking back with jokes about how the deity is a 13+ billion year old infant. Still just a baby!

On the issues raised by the inbred loons quoting plagiarized, missed-translations of the hallucinations of doped-out primitive hominids? The deity does not appreciate you twerps parroting of pagan scriptures.

Your pretensions at worshiping a deity? Are nothing more than am expression of your programed instincts from thousands of generations of your peasant ancestors worshiping the pharaoh as god-king.


Nov 22, 2018
A precursor to life ever existing on mars

phys.org> if someone makes an observation of an exoplanet and they find a magnetic field, that may be an indication that there is a magma ocean, even if they cannot see this directly," Militzer said.
As magma oceans cool from the top, a surface hospitable to life could appear while the melted mantle continues to churn.

Proof, if proof were needed
What we see on mars, is what we would have seen, if we had visited 4.5billion years ago
A barren landscape
As it has always had a solar wind and solar magnetic field induced magnetosphere
It never ever had a magnetic field of its own
As the article demonstrates
A magnetic field detected on exoplanet's is the first indication of planetary life

Nov 22, 2018
Oh dear. Silly me. I took Granny off ignore, just to see if it had managed to say something sensible for once. Big mistake!

What we see on mars, is what we would have seen, if we had visited 4.5billion years ago


Wrong. As multiple lines of evidence show.

As it has always had a solar wind and solar magnetic field induced magnetosphere
It never ever had a magnetic field of its own.


Wrong.
https://agupubs.o...02p00113

As the article demonstrates
A magnetic field detected on exoplanet's is the first indication of planetary life


Jesus H. Christ. No it isn't. It is an indication that conditions on the planet may be suitable for life. Life on the bottoms of oceans would not have the need for an intrinsic magnetic field.


Nov 22, 2018
We live on a water planet!..70% above and even more inside the earth.


Earth is an inner planet and, as such, dry as bones, Water is 0.05 % by mass, an average asteroid has 10 %.

[Relates an irrelevant creation myth, conveniently forgetting that the next chapter contains another different one.


Never mind then that we this year got observational evidence that there are no 'gods' - the universe is 100 % mechanistic - and last year that there is no soul'/'afterlife'/'ghosts' - too weak remaining interactions in standard matter of our biomachine bodies?

If you really want to cite evidence on religion, cite the relevant one that derives from science observation: the ideological core of religions is not "speculative" as religious apologists maintain but fraudulent. Religion has joined astrology and homeopathy as known - and laughable, mind - frauds.

Nov 22, 2018
What we see on mars, is what we would have seen, if we had visited 4.5billion years ago
A barren landscape
As it has always had a solar wind and solar magnetic field induced magnetosphere
It never ever had a magnetic field of its own


Well, no. Mars has fossil - frozen in - remnant magnetic fields that has been detected by orbiters, which is believed to be caused by an early geodynamo like ours. Insight will land next week and try to answer the question if it is still active in the core (we see traces of recent Mars quakes et cetera), or if not how long it was active and hopefully how its geofdynamo worked over time.

Mars had also habitable water (which again we see frozen remnants of, as well as a weak water cycle with snow et cetera) and atmosphere at the time. ExoMars and Mars 2020 rovers will collect samples to try to answer the question if there were ever life (or still is).

Nov 22, 2018
(snips magic reasoning) We have a pretty firm hold on "how" now, with the exception of an explanation for the existence of Life ... Life gives the finger to all pf physic's laws ...


Yes, it looks like our phylogenetic "sister geology" was early serpentinization driven alkaline hydrothermal vents. Also seen on Mars for example since rocky planets are mostly iron, magnesium, silicon and oxygen - collecting most iron in the core leaves serpentinization minerals in the crust..So no mystery there.

Nothing in the universe needs a reason other than possibility. It is even the current most likely explanation for the exact laws, a slow roll inflation naturally is an eternal process creating multiverses, some of which has laws suitable for life. It is the Douglas Adams water puddle all over again: "Funny how this hollow fits me!"

Life is of course obeying laws! The half alive LUCA eventually evolved to maintain a thermodynamic disequilibrium for continued replication.

Nov 22, 2018
Solar Induced and planetary fields in planetary atmospherics
jonesdave> Oh dear. Silly me. I took Granny off ignore, just to see if it had managed to say something sensible for once. Big mistake!

What we see on mars, is what we would have seen, if we had visited 4.5billion years ago

Martian Planetary Fields
Mars has all ways had a small negligible planetary field
Even today a small section of its interior still has a small planetary field
But it makes no never mind
Mars with its combination of solar induced and planetary field
Has always been the barren planet we observe today
As the combination of solar induced and planetary field has only ever been able to retain a tenuous atmosphere

Nov 22, 2018
As the combination of solar induced and planetary field has only ever been able to retain a tenuous atmosphere


Wrong. Water cannot have existed to cause the features seen on Mars without a thicker atmosphere. Try reading the scientific literature, instead of making sh!t up, you loon.


Nov 22, 2018
Martian life, holding on to that false hope

The fact mars has a tenuous atmosphere to this very day even with its negligible fractional planetary field where its local influence has a greater influence in the region of its field on the atmosphere within its range of influence
It is a case of splitting hairs
As mars miniscule planetary field has over the billions of years only been able to maintain the atmosphere we see today
As what we see today is has not changed for billions of years
We can never theoretically increase the Martian planetary field billions of years ago to any level remotely of sufficient strength to hold on to an atmosphere that is denser than its present level

We all want to find life on mars
But wishing mars had an atmosphere appreciably different than today
Is just giving false hope
The reality is
We observe Mars is as it was billions of years ago

Nov 22, 2018
The reality is
We observe Mars is as it was billions of years ago


Wrong, f***wit. Show me the scientific literature that says this. I am not taking the word of a certifiable loon. Evidence, or STFU. Idiot.

Nov 22, 2018
Craters indicate a tenuous atmosphere

The fact in the article describes meteor craters filling up with water is an indication there was not sufficient atmosphere
Because the rainfall on mountains creates rivers which meander and cut deep rivers
The atmosphere did not burn up the meteors
Which indicates a tenuous atmosphere
For flowing water as in rivers there has to be rainfall
Rainfall is water evaporating from the sea falling on the land running in rivers back into the sea
It is not water filling up meteor craters as craters in numbers indicate no atmosphere
And with no atmosphere there can be no running water

Nov 22, 2018
The fact in the article describes meteor craters filling up with water is an indication there was not sufficient atmosphere
Because the rainfall on mountains creates rivers which meander and cut deep rivers
The atmosphere did not burn up the meteors
Which indicates a tenuous atmosphere
For flowing water as in rivers there has to be rainfall
Rainfall is water evaporating from the sea falling on the land running in rivers back into the sea
It is not water filling up meteor craters as craters in numbers indicate no atmosphere
And with no atmosphere there can be no running water


Wrong, f***wit;
https://www.scien...4214.htm


Nov 22, 2018
Martian meteor craters
The Martian history is in the Martian meteors
For mars to retain sufficient atmosphere
sufficient to burn up the majority of meteors
which means few impact craters
as impact craters tell another story
Planetary plate tectonics
without planetary tectonics meteor craters survive billions of years
meteor presence indicate lack of plate tectonics
lack of tectonics indicates lack of a liquid metal core able to drive a planetary magnetosphere
the very claim that water is filling up meteor craters
indicates mars never had a planetary magnetic field
because a magnetic field indicates plate tectonics that create volcanic action which erode meteor craters
there by removing all trace of craters
the very existance of these numerous craters
indicates mars only ever had a tenuous planetary field
as it always only ever had a tenuous atmosphere
The only entity that no one has seen on this barren landscape
No one has seen a single drop of atmospheric moisture

Nov 22, 2018
When all is said and done
The surface gravity on mars is one third that of earth's gravity
in the begging 4.5 billion years a go
when mars was possibly slightly more active than it is to day
mars can never hold on to an atmosphere of sufficient density
because it has insufficient gravity strong enough to hold on to an appreciable atmosphere
it was a good dream
the possibility
of life on mars
but it was always a dream
it was always to good to be true
In the end its mass let it down

Nov 23, 2018
Plate tectonics in magnetic fields

JD, you're link – A meteorite has been known to contain the ancient Martian atmosphere the researchers simulated how the composition of the Martian atmosphere changed.
https://www.scien...4214.htm
taking a closer look at this link
indicates that like our infamous Sagittarius A* is a Simulation
the researchers simulated
yet again with more research on a completely unrelated problem
we are yet again expected to rely on simulation
an old meteorite has been known to contain the ancient Martian atmosphere
the very language used is ambiguous as in
an old meteorite, has been known
is the indefinite language of confusion and uncertainty that further compounds the issue
the very fact JD, it is simulating research concerning a meteorite
the meteorite is the smoking gun
indicates no plate tectonics and negligible magnetos field with a tenuous atmosphere

Nov 23, 2018
^^^^^Clueless imbecile.

Nov 23, 2018
Cotton Mather: Father of Astrobiology?
https://thingumbo...ogy.html

Nov 23, 2018
We live on a water planet!..70% above and even more inside the earth.


Earth is

[Relates an irrelevant creation myth,


...we this year got observational evidence that there are no 'gods' - the universe is 100 % mechanistic - and last year that there is no soul'/'afterlife'/'ghosts' - too weak remaining interactions in standard matter of our biomachine bodies?

If you really want to cite evidence on religion, cite the relevant one that derives from science observation...
says tbgl

About 85 years ago, I discovered and understood that the human body and all animal bodies - even plants to some level are all organic machines - organic yes, but nevertheless - machines.
BioMechanical, resulting from the trillions of single cells that have multiplied and come together to form these marvelous machines that are able to walk, sit, stand, run, and most of all - THINK.
Religions are only manmade decisions, and therefore, unscientific.
-contd-

Nov 23, 2018
-contd-
@tbgl

Religions are useful to explain to those who will hear that it is best to conduct one's life in a manner that will avoid hurting and damaging in any way another person or property. As most humans are independently minded and don't like to be told what to do - it was found to be necessary to give them a warning, that not only would their bodies be subjected to incarceration and possible death sentence, but also their Souls that are not made of Matter/Mass would also suffer for bad/evil deeds.
This was a significant way for humans to better understand that they had more at stake than just their corporeal existence - but that something of far more importance - their Soul - was in jeopardy if they didn't heed the warnings.
But the human Soul does exist, and every human is allotted only one. It is hidden from view, somewhere within the human body - and every deed, whether evil or good - is recorded onto that Soul. This recording is not mechanical.

Nov 23, 2018
-contd-
@tbgl

This recording is done by the human's Conscience, which is most often quite meticulous in its recognition of the differences between evil and good deeds. Those who have no discernible Conscience, although human, have no Soul at all - and are, most often, bent on destruction of self and/or others.
The known (and as yet, unknown) Universe was created as Matter/Mass/Energy to be home to organisms - mechanical or not - and those many various organisms have been placed on their respective planets to live and evolve - and, perhaps improve their lot in life. Most have no Souls, but humans, and even certain animals, are endowed with a Soul/Spirit.

The Creation was the very first Scientific endeavour done for the purpose of creating a Universe to house living beings - humans, animals, plants, and other sentient life forms.
Think of it as an enormous ZOO, if you will. This particular zoo that is called Earth is unique in the Cosmos because it houses THINKING ANIMALS.

Nov 23, 2018
MARS
once thought a haven for life
so similar to earth
once first telescopically viewed
looked very promising
untill that day arrived as the rovers first visited
bringing the first tantalising images
no not simulations
but real digital actual real photographs
then the penny dropped and so
in the bleak rubble strewn airless landscape
where the dust devils live
and the year long dust storms live
as some of these images show
https://mars.nasa.../images/
the bleak reality
that has existed since this planet formed
the very first meteorite that struck this martian regolith
still to be found 4.5 billion years later
as any detailed image shows
https://mars.nasa...ull2.jpg
rubble strewn
https://3c1703fe8...orli.jpg
after rubble strewn updale downdale in layers of martian dust

Nov 23, 2018
MARS on EARTH
In the frozen arctic wastes on a meteor hunt
we find just as on mars
meoteors littering the icy frozen polar waste
courtesy of
Antarctic Search for Meteorites (ANSMET) 2015 - 2016
in a university meteoritic hunt
at minus 30 and below
not for the faint hearted
so here on earth
we can in extremes of climate and landscape
duplicate the desolation of mars
https://www.youtu...V41k67E4

Nov 23, 2018
@granville

A screen view from Onsight from your first link was fascinating, mainly due to the image projected from Curiosity of 3 holographic humans standing in front of the rover. I wonder what was the purpose of the holograph - as they are without spacesuits.

https://mars.nasa...onsight/

Nov 24, 2018
When we Acclimatise to the Martian Climate
@granville
A screen view from Onsight from your first link was fascinating, mainly due to the image projected from Curiosity of 3 holographic humans standing in front of the rover. I wonder what was the purpose of the holograph - as they are without spacesuits.

https://mars.nasa...onsight/

Those are the proposed earthly Martian inhabitants of the 2100s
when we have acclimatised to survive on mars in its hostile environment
just like when the lords of the manor in the 1600s
brought rabbits from france to brandon in suffolk
the English climate was to cold for these French bunnies
so rabbit warrens were constructed
after a 100years the rabbits acclimatised and escaped
and now the country side is over run by rabbits
the names warren road, warren heath still survive to this day

Nov 24, 2018
well granny, evidently you have no sense of proportion. Your delusion that EarthLife can "adapt" and "acclimatize" to the Mars conditions?

Has you asserting, that swallowing a ton of seawater must ve equivalent to swallowing a glass of freshwater.

Not an experiment I would recommend!

Nov 24, 2018
Just when we thought life on mars was possible
rrwillsj> well granny, evidently you have no sense of proportion. Your delusion that EarthLife can "adapt" and "acclimatize" to the Mars conditions?
Has you asserting, that swallowing a ton of seawater must ve equivalent to swallowing a glass of freshwater.
Not an experiment I would recommend!

Along comes a realist
and shatters that earthly dream
when we thought that down to earth earthiness
was all but lost
rrwillsj in his wisdom
shatters that dream
with a stroke of his pen
he puts the wrongs of this world to rights
brings us down to earth with a bump
so that we see that hazy lazy orange hue
of the evening sunlit glow
as it sets below the horizon
of this arid rubble strewn land
as it did in the begining
4.5 billion years ago

Nov 24, 2018
When we Acclimatise to the Martian Climate
@granville
.. from Onsight from your first link was fascinating, mainly due to the image projected from Curiosity of 3 holographic humans standing in front of the rover. ... what was the purpose of the holograph - as they are without spacesuits.
https://mars.nasa...onsight/

Those are the proposed earthly Martian inhabitants of the 2100s
when we have acclimatised to survive on mars in its hostile environment
just like when the lords of the manor in the 1600s
brought rabbits from france to brandon in suffolk
the English climate was to cold for these French bunnies
so rabbit warrens were constructed
after a 100years the rabbits acclimatised and escaped
and now the country side is over run by rabbits
the names warren road, warren heath still survive to this day
says granville

Ahhhh the aroma of rabbit stew. So good in the cold weather. How I miss it, being far from home.

Nov 24, 2018
-contd-
@granville

In my opinion (which may not be too popular with younger millennials), the first humans to set foot on planet Mars should be in their mid-30s to mid-50s age groups. In most cases, Astronauts in those age groups will long have left their childhoods and childish thoughts behind and had entered already into a serious and highly motivated personal plan to make a success of the trip, the landing, and whatever opportunities ensue/arise to make the communal endeavours work for everyone concerned.
Since it is improbable that they will be able to return to Earth, they will, indeed, need to acclimate to their new environmental conditions with as cheery an attitude as they could possibly muster. For if one has a grumpy and/or nasty demeanor, it could bring about a bit of misery for everyone else.
IF any life forms are found on Mars, then the group will have to deal with that also - thus, a cohesive, unified groupthink may help their survival.

Nov 24, 2018
-contd-
@granville

rrwilliejoe has somehow translated your comment as an assertion of "swallowing a ton of seawater" as the equivalent of drinking a glass of fresh water. Perhaps rrwilliejoe has herself been imbibing a tad too often of the top-shelf good stuff that is found in her favourite pub.
:)
But, in any case, the planet Mars is much too close to planet Earth to leave it alone for very long. Humans are an, for the most part, adventurous lot who can't seem to leave well enough alone if it is there for the pickings. We have understood this "itch" that humans have, to go roaming, sticking their noses into where it is often not wanted. Most recently, a human individual set out for an island where the savages refused his entry - shooting and killing him with arrows from shore.
Now what could have been on his mind to do such a foolish thing - given that those particular savages only wanted to be left alone to keep future hoteliers out.
But Mars is a whole different thing.

Nov 25, 2018
geez segue, I thought granny was confusing fairytales with reality. However, you have leaped to a whole nother level of bigoted ignorance.

"a human individual set out for an island where the savages refused his entry"

That was not a "human individual" but a trained agent of a religious corporation. Seeking to infiltrate & subvert an independent people. To smash their culture & crush their independence.

Those brown "savages" you despise have bitter memories of previous efforts to enslave them. My congrats to their excellent shooting. Now cue up Leonard Cohen singing "La Chanson Du Partisan".

If you are so unwilling to permit others freedom? Why should the rest of us support your delusions of adequacy at founding a colony on Mars?

If you were honest about your actual intentions? With yourself? As no one else will believe you! Your "pioneer" bombast is nothing more than an expression of your wet dreams of conquering the green slave girls of Orion!

Nov 27, 2018
@tobjorn-larsson:
Never mind then that we this year got observational evidence that there are no 'gods' - the universe is 100 % mechanistic - and last year that there is no soul'/'afterlife'/'ghosts' - too weak remaining interactions in standard matter of our biomachine bodies?

If you really want to cite evidence on religion, cite the relevant one that derives from science observation: the ideological core of religions is not "speculative" as religious apologists maintain but fraudulent. Religion has joined astrology and homeopathy as known - and laughable, mind - frauds.

If the universe is 100% mechanistic/materialistic then where does the abstract laws of logic and mathematics come from? How does a purely material universe create these laws that exist and hold true irrespective of time or place? These are real entities, even if they are abstract (otherwise all of our science wouldn't work!) , so just where do they come from if mechanistic material is all there is?

Nov 27, 2018
But the rocky Earth was molten after its initial formation 4.5 billion years ago


This is an unsubstantiated assumption (in spite of the radioactive dating of meteors) arising from the other forced assumption that planets form themselves around the stars that have also formed themselves ( which is another impossibility in spite of applying dark matter that no one has observed, experimented with or understands ).

Our real-life observations call the lie on these supposed self-forming planets right here in our own solar system. Every planet and it's moon(s) falsifies the nebulous hypothesis of planet formation in more than one point of observational evidence, starting right off with that small planet mercury and going right thru to the trans-Neptune objects.

The nebular hypothesis is an atheistic myth and shown to be an outright lie by our own observations.

Nov 27, 2018
Do they also have magnetic fields to protect emerging life

Life doesn't just "emerge" by itself from random physical and chemical processes, which is the unstated assumption underlying this statement.
So far there is absolute zero observational evidence to support the abiogenesis hypothesis. It is dead in the water in spite of rank speculation as to the RNA world origins.

We know thru everyday observations that once something dies it does not get back to life all by itself and this even though it has a head start over random pond scum dirt because all the right ingredients are already in place. So if a deceased organism cannot arise from the dead all by itself, how much LESS will the scum of the earth have any way to organize and kick-start life into being all by itself with no outside help whatsoever?

Every scientist on the planet knows this but they all suppress the true implications of it: We were created and owe allegiance to our Creator.

Nov 27, 2018
well freddyboy, when you swing a hammer at a nail? It is a "mechanistic universal law" to try not to hit your thumb holding the nail!

And the deity has expressed to me, that it is very disappointed in your efforts to dictate the deities methods of organizing reality.

That it finds your obsession with antiquated fairytles to be down right creepy.

The point of having an evolving Universe? Is not to pretend you know the answers. But to have the "Free Will" & intellectual curiosity to invent new questions. \

i.e freddyboy, the deity considers you primitive savages advocating ignorance & stuporstition to be tedious bores!

Nov 27, 2018
We were created and owe allegiance to our Creator.


Primitive, puerile, superstitious crap.

Nov 27, 2018
Weekend trips to Mars
SEU, when space transporters are constructed on the principle of rotational inertia
obviating the need to transport huge quantise of liquid propellant that once burnt all thrust is lost
all space transporters require is a force equal and opposite to their weight
one gram of force over and above their weight
and the transporter rises from the ground and will continue rising
it is not necessary to reach orbital speed
all that is required is the application of Newton's 3laws of motion
rocket propellant reaching orbital velocity are a result of limited propellant
a rocket engine cannot give continuous thrust
whereas Newton's 3 laws of motion can give continuous thrust
without enormous tonnage of rocket propellant
travel to mars and back by the weekend is of no consequence

Nov 27, 2018
I said to @Parsec on another thread that I chose carefully. I see no reason to engage with @FreddyJoe in its trailer park.

Nov 27, 2018
But the rocky Earth was molten after its initial formation 4.5 billion years ago

This is an unsubstantiated assumption...We were created and owe allegiance to our Creator.


Mmmm... Delicious irony.

Nov 27, 2018
Irony? It's downright Hematite!

Geez granny! when in your omnipotence did you repeal
and negate the Laws of Thermodynamics?

Cause I'm still eagerly awaiting for you to deliver to my driveway, that anti-inertial perp-motive flying car you promised me in your last drunken stupor.

Nov 27, 2018
Irony? It's downright Hematite!

Geez granny! when in your omnipotence did you repeal
and negate the Laws of Thermodynamics?

Cause I'm still eagerly awaiting for you to deliver to my driveway, that anti-inertial perp-motive flying car you promised me in your last drunken stupor.

Its worth the wait, just go easy on the Amber Nectar in the meantime

Nov 28, 2018
For the Modern Age of the fascist occupation of America. We need a new national motto while the whore trump crime family, at the behest of their pimp outin, dissolve the Union.

Two suggestions I have heard, pertaining to your kindly prescription to imbibe more barleycorn to make the treason more palatable?

"If it is worth doing? It is certainly worth overdoing!"
and
"Excess is never enough!"

So, what's your opinion as to choice? Or would you offer a third suggestion?

Dec 05, 2018
@rrwilliejoe
Why haven't you bought your plane tickets to Venezuela yet? Or Cuba? I'm certain that Communist China will gladly welcome you - and even teach you how to cook Chinese cuisine.
What? You would much rather stay in the US to wait and see the US become a Communist country also? Oh, you would settle for the US to become Socialist first BEFORE tossing out the old US Constitution and everything that makes it American?
But, with all the bitching that you do about American Capitalism, Conservatives, Libertarians, and anything that makes America great - you really REALLY should hop on a plane to Cuba or Venezuela. They will forgive you if you don't speak Spanish, at first.
You could crowdfund for the plane fare if you don't have the money for a one-way plane ticket, rrwilliejoe.
You will be SO MUCH BETTER OFF in a Commie country that will suit your style and your political views.
You should go, rrwilliejoe. You would be so much happier in your new home. Adios Amigo.

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