Sexual harassment common among middle school children, study finds

December 9, 2016, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Homophobic bullying is the precursor to sexual harassment among US schoolchildren, according to a new study by educational psychologist Dorothy Espelage, who conducted the research while on the University of Illinois' education faculty. Co-authors on the paper were Jun Sung Hong, a professor of social work at Wayne State University; and U. of I. alumni Sarah Rinehart and Namrata Doshi. Credit: Photo by L. Brian Stauffer

The recent suicide of Brandy Vela, a teen in Texas City, Texas, was a potent reminder of the sometimes tragic consequences of bullying. According to Vela's parents, the teen fatally shot herself Nov. 29 following months of bullying and sexual harassment, perpetrated in part through text messages and social media.

Sexual harassment is a prevalent form of victimization that most antibullying programs ignore and teachers and school officials often fail to recognize, said bullying and youth violence expert Dorothy L. Espelage.

Espelage recently led a five-year study that examined links between bullying and sexual harassment among schoolchildren in Illinois. Nearly half - 43 percent - of surveyed for the study reported they had been the victims of verbal sexual harassment such as sexual comments, jokes or gestures during the prior year.

The study followed 1,300 Illinois youths from middle school to high school, examining the risk factors associated with bullying and sexual harassment and the characteristics of the perpetrators. Students from four middle schools completed the surveys, and some of the youths and their teachers also were interviewed by the researchers.

Espelage, who conducted the research while on the faculty of the University of Illinois, is a professor of psychology at the University of Florida.

While was more common than physical sexual harassment or sexual assault, 21 percent of students reported having been touched, grabbed or pinched in a sexual way, and 18 percent said peers had brushed up against them in a suggestive manner.

Students also reported being forced to kiss the perpetrators, having their private areas touched without consent and being "pantsed" - having their pants or shorts jerked down by someone else in public.

About 14 percent of the students in the study reported having been the target of sexual rumors, and 9 percent had been victimized with sexually explicit graffiti in school locker rooms or bathrooms.

According to Espelage, "sexual harassment among adolescents is directly related to bullying," particularly homophobic bullying.

Homophobic name-calling emerges among fifth- and sixth-grade bullies as a means of asserting power over other students, Espelage said. Youths who are the targets of homosexual name-calling and jokes then feel compelled to demonstrate they are not gay or lesbian by sexually harassing peers of the opposite sex.

About 16 percent of students in the study reported that they had been the targets of homophobic name-calling or jokes, and nearly 5 percent of youths reported that this harassment happened to them often.

On the surveys, youths were asked an open-ended question about their most upsetting experience of sexual harassment. Fourteen percent of students who reported being victimized negated their experiences by writing that their peers' behaviors were "not really sexual harassment" because the incidents were "meaningless" or intended as jokes.

"What was most surprising and concerning was that these young people were dismissive of these experiences, even though they described them as very upsetting," Espelage said. "Students failed to recognize the seriousness of these behaviors - in part because teachers and school officials failed to address them. Prevention programs need to address what is driving this dismissiveness."

Youths who were dismissive of sexual harassment experiences also were more likely to perpetrate homophobic name-calling, the researchers found.

While students reported that large proportions of these sexual harassment incidents occurred in places such as school hallways, classrooms, gym locker rooms or gym classes where faculty and staff members ostensibly might witness them, the researchers found that many teachers, and staff members failed to acknowledge that sexual harassment occurred in their schools.

Many of these adults also were unaware that they were mandated by school district or federal policies to protect students from sexual harassment, Espelage said.

"These findings highlight the importance of making sexual harassment prevention efforts a priority in U.S. school districts, and that will require the efforts of students, faculty and staff members, school administrators and practitioners such as school psychologists," Espelage said. "Schools need to have a consistently enforced policy that clearly defines sexual harassment and establishes regulations against engaging in such behavior. School officials also must provide guidelines for faculty and staff members on how to address these incidents and how to respond appropriately to student reports of sexual harassment."

Sexual harassment experiences varied across socio-demographic groups, depending on students' age, race and sex. For example, females were at greatest risk of sexual harassment, while African-American girls and boys were at greatest risk of being victimized by romantic partners, the researchers found.

Counseling techniques, interventions and prevention programs for need to consider these socio-demographic differences and address relevant factors that contribute to in racially diverse populations, Espelage said.

Explore further: Boys who bully peers more likely to engage in sexual harassment

More information: Dorothy L. Espelage et al, Understanding types, locations, & perpetrators of peer-to-peer sexual harassment in U.S. middle schools: A focus on sex, racial, and grade differences, Children and Youth Services Review (2016). DOI: 10.1016/j.childyouth.2016.11.010

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ChiralMichael
3.9 / 5 (11) Dec 09, 2016
This jives well with my recalled experience as a middle and high schooler. I recall being harassed by my peers most school days, and I wasn't even nearly getting the worst of what I saw.
Bart_A
3.3 / 5 (12) Dec 09, 2016
By the definitions of this article, yes I was bullied too. Got my pants pulled down at least once. At the time it was surprising, but as I look back on it now, it was all part of development into an adult.

I realize now that there always going to be those kind of people in the world that will call you names, criticize you for things that you think are right, and really just be a total nerdy idiot. There are far too many of those kind of people even here on PHYS.org that still haven't grown up.
tesschris
Dec 09, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
rrrander
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2016
What do you suppose the upshot of progressives trying to employ "zero tolerance" when it comes to schoolyard fights, racist or sexist comments, or comments about people who are different? You think trying to prevent all of it might be a contributing factor in much more violent acts down the road? Young people are far more "instinct-driven" than adults and reject difference because that is what animals in a pack do. It is in-borne, not learned.
gkam
1.8 / 5 (16) Dec 10, 2016
Yes, the anonymity of the internet allows bullies to roam and attack. They never use their real names.

Ira, "otto" and Rumpy are just the main three. This nasty activity must be some kind of fill-in, or substitute for a real life, where they lose regularly.

But all bullies are cowards, as shown by their fear of personal exposure.
gkam
1.9 / 5 (17) Dec 10, 2016
I had a former school bully contact me to ask for forgiveness. It seems he has become in later life a confirmed Christian (how beneficial, how timely!), and now needs to get into Heaven, despite his life of nastiness. IOW, a coward.
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (12) Dec 10, 2016
Captain Stumpy is typical bullier
@zeph/tess
so, it's bullying to ask you to provide science on a science forum?
really?

and you don't think that spreading intentional lies, misinformation and presenting known false claims and pseudoscience on a science site is bullying?

it is, and it's far more insidious because you want to be legitimized without the requisite evidence the scientific method says you must have, therefore you spread a religion under the guise of "free speech" in a forum where evidence should be king

that kind of bullying is worse

.

@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
where they lose regularly
you are just as bad, if not worse, than zeph!

your argument is that your "authority" should be superior to the known factual evidence...

that kind of bullying is no different than sexual harassment and the perceived superiority of a sex or race

and i'm still not anonymous.

so per your own argument to "clean up the site"....
Whydening Gyre
4.3 / 5 (16) Dec 10, 2016
As the littlest kid in middle school (girls included), I took my share of heat. However, I soon understood it was the SOP for insecurity (common for most middle schoolers). I developed my own method of dealing with it and most of those "bullies" became friends. The growth spurt in HS didn't hurt, I suppose...
Anyway... Grow some thicker skin, George.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Dec 10, 2016
Stop the stolen valor crap. I proved my service, unlike you. I am an original founding member of the 553 Reconnaissance Wing, a real BatCat. While in the unit, we earned two Outstanding Unit Citations with Combat "V" Device. Two, while I was in the unit. Ain't no question about it.

What did your Vietnam War unit earn?
gkam
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 10, 2016
"Anyway... Grow some thicker skin, George."
-----------------------------

Shorten your nose, WG.

I told the suffering guy we were all goofs sometime in life, and he needed no forgiveness from me. And it up to his god, not me, to judge the full life of another.
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (11) Dec 10, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-cam
Stop the stolen valor crap
it's not crap. i proved my argument here: http://phys.org/n...ity.html

you can always litigate as you threatened, ya bully!
I proved my service, unlike you
1- proving service has nothing to do with stolen valor - learn to read
you claimed a combat V while not being able to prove it - and that is the definition of stolen valor

2- already proved i served - ignoring evidence is proof of bullying, just like threatening to sue because you can't prove your case is bullying

more to the point: science is all about evidence, not claims of authority
evidence doesn't have an agenda like you do

Both our states (and GB) have anti-bullying laws along with slander/libel laws, so perhaps you should make good on your continued threats to litigate and meet us in court

so - per your own request to "clean up the site" ...
Whydening Gyre
4.4 / 5 (14) Dec 10, 2016
"Anyway... Grow some thicker skin, George."
-----------------------------

Shorten your nose, WG.

What the heck does that mean?!?

I told the suffering guy we were all goofs sometime in life, and he needed no forgiveness from me. And it up to his god, not me, to judge the full life of another.

You are so magnanimous...
Hey, George - watch out for that tree!
Captain Stumpy
3.9 / 5 (11) Dec 10, 2016
Grow some thicker skin, George.
@Whyde
for him, it's not about anything other than manipulation, domination and control. those are the defining characteristics of the sociopathic narcissist

notice that he attempts to spread his magnanimous story while completely ignoring the facts? you know, like how he threatens to litigate against people who have proven that he directly lied and can't actually substantiate his own claims with evidence?

that is the direct definition of bullying, BTW

because the bully liar can't actually validate his claims like any reputable person, and because he thinks that making a claim (that was later retracted) makes him an authority, then the best way to control the situation is to threaten legal action or some similar crap, or spread intentional abuse, like the obvious lies above (i never claimed to be a 'Nam vet - that was Vietvet)...

evidence is king in science, which is why people like zeph and liar-kam are stupid bullies
gkam
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 10, 2016
"evidence is king in science"
---------------------------

And in real life, too. You saw mine. Where is yours?

YOU are the Stolen Valor coward. Prove you even "served" let alone got awards.

You are mealy-mouthing, trying to deflect from the fact I proved my life, and you are just a phony cowering in the woods, too scared to identify yourself.

Are you SCARED of me?

ME? I am just George Kamburoff, the guy with the DD-214, the history of work for the Air Force, and the Power Quality stuff.

Do not be afraid.
gkam
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 10, 2016
Authority? I speak from experience not authority. Those of you with none do not understand the difference in understanding between an "authority" and someone actually experienced in the field or act. One gives you dogma, the other, reality

Do you have any experience?

What?

Got proof?

No, you did not send it, so stop saying it.
Uncle Ira
4.4 / 5 (13) Dec 10, 2016
Authority? I speak from experience not authority.
Yet one more (as if anybody needed one more) proof you are the science illiterate.

Cher, you cite your "experience" as authority every time you post something. You claim you are never wrong, can not be wrong because you have "experience" (which means even when you are wrong, you are still right because you have "experience".) In other words, your "experiences" did not gain you anything in knowledge or your "experiences" is a lie.
Captain Stumpy
4.1 / 5 (13) Dec 10, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
YOU are the Stolen Valor coward
this is called libel - so prove it like i proved you are intentionally lying and claiming stolen valor
Prove you even "served"
you ignored the evidence already once
1- i sent you an underacted copy of the DD214
2- http://s1027.phot...p;page=1

PW=VALIDATE
3- when you file for discovery, you will get another copy through your lawyer

since the rest of your diatribe is worse than OT and more libelous, i will let it stand as evidence for when you finally get the balls to make good on your threat to litigate against the site, myself and others

feel free to take me to court since you obviously think you have the requisite evidence

i welcome it and suggested it to you years ago (evidence in the link above)

so now it's time for you to sh*t or get off the pot - make good on your bullying threats
come and get me, little liar girl
gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 10, 2016
Your phony link does not work.

And my challenge still stands. Prove yourself.

I love it when you are angry and out-of-control, . . so manly.

This thread regards bullies and I was not the first one to call you out on it.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (12) Dec 10, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
Your phony link does not work
you're a liar - i have it open right now and i know at least two people accessed it in the last ten minutes

repeating a lie doesn't make it more true - unless you're a religious idiot cult member and reinforcing the thought process in your own head
And my challenge still stands. Prove yourself
and my evidence still stands. i did, and you're ignoring it

proven bully tactic
are ya gonna threaten to sue me again?
cause we all know you will not
and you will abjectly fail if you did try anyway

why?

because the evidence is all in my favor (or the site/others)

i can prove every claim i made against you whereas you can prove less than 5% of your claims here (i counted and checked - but i might have missed a few of your more outlandish claims)

per your own request to clean up the site...

PS-continue to rant. i will simply ignore it and report the posts per your own request
thanks
gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 10, 2016
I finally got through the link to find the unredacted DD-214 is mine, proving my service.

The almost completely-redacted one can be that of anybody doing anything. All we can see is, it is signed by a civilian.

Now, who are you, and why do you hide?

What kind of terrible childhood turned you into a cowering bully?
gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 10, 2016
OMG, I feel like I am seeing the Secret Room of a Stalker.

Get help.

If you served, you should know about Vet Centers. Not the VA system, but Vet Centers by name. They took me as a walk-in.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (12) Dec 10, 2016
Your phony link does not work
Your phony lies do not work. You are george kamburoff the lying cheating psychopath. We are pretty sure of this.
They took me as a walk-in
-and are your psychiatrists and therapists still monitoring my every post because you asked them to? Do they know youre stoned all the time?

Our govt dollars at work.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (12) Dec 10, 2016
I proved my service, unlike you. I am an original founding member of the 553 Reconnaissance Wing, a real BatCat. While in the unit, we earned two Outstanding Unit Citations with Combat "V" Device. Two, while I was in the unit. Ain't no question about it.

I finally got through the link to find the unredacted DD-214 is mine, proving my service.

The almost completely-redacted one can be that of anybody doing anything. All we can see is, it is signed by a civilian

I am just George Kamburoff, the guy with the DD-214, the history of work for the Air Force, and the Power Quality stuff
And also what does all this lying bullshit have to do with sexual harassment?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (12) Dec 10, 2016
I had a former school bully contact me to ask for forgiveness. It seems he has become in later life a confirmed Christian (how beneficial, how timely!), and now needs to get into Heaven, despite his life of nastiness. IOW, a coward
Sad. He never got to know what a demon psychopath you are. Otherwise he may have shown up with father karras and some holy water and made some real amends.

Vengeance is mine sayeth the lord.
Captain Stumpy
3.9 / 5 (11) Dec 10, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
If you served, you should know about Vet Centers. Not the VA system, but Vet Centers by name. They took me as a walk-in
ROTFLMFAO

so, you can't get VA benefits?
why is that, i wonder?
ROTFLMFAO

let me show more evidence then with a special message to you:
http://s1027.phot...amp;o=28

PW=VALIDATE

that is taken just a few minutes ago per the time-stamp and data on the pic itself - admissible in any court

i can prove service and honorable discharge not only because i have my DD214 on the same folder, but because I have a retired ID card and VA card

I don't need to play stolen valor like you, g - i have the paperwork to prove i am not a sniveling coward making libelous comments against national hero's like you do

so per your own request...
tblakely1357
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2016
Lol, nothing like bringing bullying to a science forum than an article about bullying.
Shakescene21
5 / 5 (5) Dec 11, 2016
Physorg would be a a much more colleagial and productive site if the moderators would ban a few anonymous bullies.
Bart_A
1 / 5 (3) Dec 11, 2016
tblakely---you gave me a good laugh. I think my original comment proved its point....
ellbeeyoo
2.7 / 5 (12) Dec 11, 2016
Most of the comments are taken up by 3 people, and then there are the others commenting on the first 3, and then there is me; looking to find smart commentary on the story. I guess that's just silly of me, looking for relevant commentary on a comments page, but hey I gotta be me.
gkam
1 / 5 (14) Dec 11, 2016
ellbee, you are right.

I cannot seem to get away from the three who follow me around like puppy dogs. Since the topic is bullies, and since all bullies are cowards, all we have to do is identify them, and they will crawl away.

BTW, for all you pro-Tumpers, the "WMD!" suckers, your pres-elect is now the National Pu$$y-Grabber.

Proud? Tell your daughters!

He even said some radio clown could call his developing daughter a "piece of a$$".

On national radio.

Real class, folks.
gkam
1 / 5 (14) Dec 11, 2016
School bullying has reached new highs with the rise of conservatism.

It is the canary in the coal mine folks.

We are becoming a crude, selfish, violent, Fascist State owned by billionaires.
Eikka
4.3 / 5 (6) Dec 11, 2016
Students failed to recognize the seriousness of these behaviors


The difference here is that pre-pubescent kids sexually harassing each other is not sexual harassment in the adult sense - that is to say the motive to the harassment is not sex. "Sexual harassment" by fifth graders is the same as teasing a kid for wearing the wrong kind of sneakers. It's arbitrary.

The kids know this - they know it's not about some perv trying to get into their pants, but about the schoolyard pecking order in general. It simply takes the form of sexualized slurs because the -adults- make such a big fuss about those. The kids don't really know what they mean, they haven't got first hand experience to understand it yet so it IS meaningless to them, but they can observe the adults get really upset when you call someone gay or pull down their pants so they do it.

The real problem is that some of the victims never get the point that it's meaningless, so they get traumatized over nothing.
Eikka
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 11, 2016
The worst thing you can do for the matter is to take it very very seriously and try to teach the kids what a big serious offense they're making by pulling someone's pants down.

Because that just makes it worse for the victims, who now believe an even greater wrong has been committed, that they've been humiliated and insulted and ridiculed to the n-th degree because the adults are telling them what a horrible thing this is. Of course they're going to do it even more. You see it's not the act itself but its symbolic meaning to the kids that matters: they've been put down in front of their peers.

So you'll just hand the bullies an effective tool for their bullying by blowing the whole thing out of proportions.

gkam
1.5 / 5 (16) Dec 11, 2016
"The real problem is that some of the victims never get the point that it's meaningless, so they get traumatized over nothing."
------------------------------

Yeah, . . it's the victim's fault!!

Conservatism, . . hateful conservatism.
Eikka
5 / 5 (4) Dec 11, 2016
"The real problem is that some of the victims never get the point that it's meaningless, so they get traumatized over nothing."
------------------------------

Yeah, . . it's the victim's fault!!

Conservatism, . . hateful conservatism.


Whooosh goes the point over your head. Again.

The victims don't get the point because the adults are playing a game where being gay or straight or keeping your underpants hidden at all times is very very important and extremely serious for reasons the kids don't yet comprehend, and the kids copy the outward appearance of that in the absence of any better idea.

Most children at one point or another realize that this is all nonsense, that it's not important what names you get called, but the victims who start to construct their identity around the game the adults play - they get confused.

gkam
1.3 / 5 (15) Dec 11, 2016
My daughter was sexually harassed in Middle School, and they did nothing. The perp was a troubled kid, and killed himself years later. If they had acted, perhaps they could have saved both from experiences like that.

The point did not go over my head, Mister Shallow.
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 11, 2016
The point did not go over my head, Mister Shallow.


And what did you do? Gnash teeth and wail about what a horrible event has taken place, troubling the poor kid even further?

Here's the thing: if you're somehow "special" - suppose you have a crooked nose. It's not the nose that is the problem but the other people's reactions to it. If you don't realize that, you'll have a bad self-esteem forever. The trouble is other people keep telling you - sometimes very convincingly - that your crooked nose is a big problem when it isn't, and they shouldn't.

You can go down as far as violent rape - the bruises will heal and the psychological damage can be undone and you can get over it - what can't be undone is other peoples' attitudes to you when they know you've been raped. The shame that follows, the people treating you as damaged goods, forever a victim, is continuously there.

It's the same thing with bullying. You're just victimizing the kids more.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (15) Dec 11, 2016
"You can go down as far as violent rape - the bruises will heal and the psychological damage can be undone and you can get over it"
------------------------------
Did you get that from the rapist? Want to read real stories?

Eikka
3 / 5 (2) Dec 11, 2016
So, the point is that treating fifth graders' calling names and "pantsing" each other indiscriminately as sexual harassment in the adult sense, and making it a huge serious issue is doing the victims a disservice while not addressing the underlying problem. It's just giving the bullies more ammunition.

That doesn't mean you should be ignoring the bullying, or blaming the victim - except by the point that they might not be smart enough to get what's going on, so they might need adult help on that. That's called good parenting.

Bad parenting is treating the child first and foremost as a victim.

For example, if little Johnny calls Timmy a "ninny", it doesn't help to get incredibly upset at Johnny and then say "it's perfectly alright to be a ninny" to Timmy, because for the kids that sustains the very fiction where "ninny" is something embarrassing and Timmy may in fact be it. Timmy is still put down, and now he really believes it.
Eikka
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 11, 2016
Did you get that from the rapist? Want to read real stories?


Get a load of yourself for a change.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Dec 11, 2016
You apparently do not understand the meaning of sexual harassment. It means he pulled down her top, repeatedly.

What are you? A bot? No Humanity, just opinion?

I think you were a bully.
Origin314
3.9 / 5 (7) Dec 11, 2016
In a society where everyone focuses so much on sexuality one can only expect this type of behavior...

Society is failing hard on this front just youtube alone has a plethora of video's which children do watch with all sorts of people doing stuff for the "Lulz" including sexual harassment..
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (11) Dec 11, 2016
I cannot seem to get away from the three who follow me around like puppy dogs. Since the topic is bullies, and since all bullies are cowards, all we have to do is identify them, and they will crawl away
Stop lying and making up facts and the dozen or so people who regularly take exception to it, will stop. I know youre constitutionally incapable of doing this and so the harassment will not stop.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.1 / 5 (13) Dec 11, 2016
My daughter was sexually harassed in Middle School, and they did nothing. The perp was a troubled kid, and killed himself years later. If they had acted, perhaps they could have saved both from experiences like that
"Manipulation is the key to the psychopath's conquests. Initially, the psychopath will feign false emotions to create empathy, and many of them study the tricks that can be employed by the empathy technique. Psychopaths are often able to incite pity from people because they seem like "lost souls" as Guggenbuhl-Craig writes. So the pity factor is one reason why victims often fall for these "poor" people."

-They will even make up stories about their own families in order to elicit sympathy and add credence to their sick opinions. Manipulation is the reason for everything they do.

Because of his record we assume FIRST that george is lying.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (11) Dec 11, 2016
In a society where everyone focuses so much on sexuality
We are tropical animals with a repro rate that developed in response to high attrition rates found in the tropics. We were weak, slow, and easy to catch, and we reproduced at an accelerated rate in order to compensate.

Freud told us that we are born with a desire to reproduce. Of course we are preoccupied with it. And the natural result of this preoccupation is chronic overpopulation which is, and always has been, the root cause of nearly all of societys problems.

In addition it is the way in which we choose our mates which is problematic. Men seek to mate with as many different women as possible, while women have much more invested in each pregnancy. And so they will want to select the best possible donor for each child they wish to bear.

And so they will compel suitors to compete to ascertain quality. Suitors will naturally seek to restrict this behavior. In todays world this is considered harassment.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 11, 2016
"Of course we are preoccupied with it."
-------------------------------

What you have is a sickness.

You will not get help with your unhealthy fixation here.
geokstr
1.7 / 5 (11) Dec 11, 2016
"You can go down as far as violent rape - the bruises will heal and the psychological damage can be undone and you can get over it"
------------------------------
Did you get that from the rapist? Want to read real stories?


This advice came from the only president credibly accused of rape, that well-known conservative, the evil capitalist roader himself, BJ Clinton - "Better put some ice on that." The same president for whom radical feminists, also extreme conservatives, instituted the "one-grope" rule, to excuse him for grabbing the t*ts of another woman.

Whoopi absolved Roman Polanski of drugging & sodomizing a 13 year old against her will, since it wasn't "rape-rape". Then there's the Soros paid for "Occupy" groups, whose camps were hotbeds of sexual assault and rape. Damn those conservatives!

We won't even mention the 100 million killed for thoughtcrime by those "conservatives" Josef, Mao, Ho, Pol and Fidel.

Look in the mirror, hypocrite.

TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (10) Dec 11, 2016
When bush made his famous 'new world order' speech he was not talking politics. He was describing the shift from quantity to quality. He was announcing the ascension of the woman.

The world was full. No longer is it necessary to spread culture by outgrowing and overrunning. We can finally limit the repro rate directly using contraception and prenatal infanticide if necessary.

Western culture has been successful to the extent that indigenous western pops are actually shrinking. And elsewhere, ancient religionist cultures which have thrived by outgrowing and overrunning, are being made to consume one another in preengineered wars of mutual destruction.

And the few who are pragmatic, resourceful, and courageous enough to escape the devastation are more than willing to learn how to plan for the futures and not to expect some god to provide for their needs.

'The south will rise again.' No it wont. Not ever.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (11) Dec 11, 2016
"Of course we are preoccupied with it."
-------------------------------

What you have is a sickness.

You will not get help with your unhealthy fixation here
I think freud might say you are inadvertantly revealing your chronic erectile dysfunction. Only works while youre staring at the mirror eh georgie? fapfapfap cough faint
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (11) Dec 11, 2016
A little backround music to set the mood
https://www.youtu...PIyIcCro

"Eye yam... krezy!"
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Dec 11, 2016
Geokstr, have a daughter? Trump wants to date her.

How do you religious folk rationalize Trump? He is your leader, your man.

But he has revealed himself to be disgusting, shallow, emotionally-unstable, and crude.

Got your Trump "The Grabber" sign out still?
Estevan57
3.9 / 5 (14) Dec 11, 2016
Gkam, after your comment about someone elses daughter , it looks like YOU should take the prize for being disgusting, shallow, emotionally-unstable, and crude.

Did you know that by giving your name and address online you put your own daughter at risk by anyone you annoy too much?

You are truly a child. Think first, post second.
gkam
1.8 / 5 (16) Dec 11, 2016
I said nothing about his daughter. I reminded him of His Trump.

I raised three daughters, and deeply resent the disgusting and crude behavior and actions of your National Leader, Der Trump.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.1 / 5 (13) Dec 11, 2016
I raised three daughters, and deeply resent the disgusting and crude behavior and actions of your National Leader, Der Trump
And You make up stories about them being abused so you can say 'I know what I am talking about.'

This is exactly what you do with your bullshit stories about work and the military. So you can claim 'experience' beyond reproach.

You resent trump only because in your mind he's a successful liar and you're a failure. But you use your daughters for self-aggrandizement the same way you imagine he has.

You don't hate yourself because you're scum, you hate yourself because you're inept. And you especially hate winners like trump.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Dec 11, 2016
Which one of his daughters was the one he and Howard Stern talked about on national radio as the "piece of a$$"?

He is your kind of guy, otto.

Filthy and cowardly.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.1 / 5 (14) Dec 11, 2016
Little georgie sits by his computer all night long just waiting for attention. So who's being played like the kazoo hmmm?

Tickle tickle.
retrosurf
3 / 5 (8) Dec 12, 2016
Comment sections like this (with 50 off-topic back-and-forth comments between 2 or 3 authors) look like the result of an intentional policy by the moderators or the organization.

Either that, or this is the worst moderation I've ever seen. At least youtube had the excuse of having millions and millions of drive-by shooters. Here, it's always the same people, over and over again.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.1 / 5 (13) Dec 12, 2016
So you tell me - when a serial liar and fact-fabricator like gkam floods this site with 40-60 posts daily about his self-serving nonsense, what are we supposed to do?

Yes, the same dozen or so people take the time to refute the bullshit he makes up. And the mods do nothing i suppose because he generates traffic.

And none of this is going to change. Even if everybody gets banned, george would be back and a different set of people would have to refute him again.

This is the problem with psychopath trolls. Inflicting pain is their raison d'etre. This psychopath is here to feed.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Dec 12, 2016
Do we have moderators?

Why do they let character assassins like otto and Stumpy and Ira in here? Their real need is to offend and abuse others, while hiding behind a phony name.

otto already admitted he is here in some variation of the name otto to play what he calls his "games".

Go to Twitter for your "games", "otto". We like grown-ups here.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (13) Dec 12, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
Why do they let character assassins like otto and Stumpy
if you could prove this you would have already attempted to litigate as you threatened multiple times

and i'm still not anonymous - just ask Otto, Ira, or anyone else who is actually capable of using a search engine
Their real need is
the real need of anyone interested in science is validation and answers

what you produce is false claims and stupidity that is usually easily refuted with a 10 second search on any search engine

it aint about your prior service (except your intentional stolen valor) nor is it about your false experience where you charge your EV at night with solar panels

it's about being able to make a coherent argument with evidence - something you have yet to do

so....
per your own request to "clean up the site"...
Eikka
3.9 / 5 (7) Dec 12, 2016
You apparently do not understand the meaning of sexual harassment. It means he pulled down her top, repeatedly.


Whoosh goes the point again.

11 year old kids pantsing or pulling down tops, or calling each other bad names is not sexual harassment in the adult sense. The motive is not sex, but bullying. Most of them have no idea what it even means when they do it, they just know adults make a great big deal about it.

The biggest trauma out of the situation for the child comes from the strong reaction by the adults. If the adults didn't insist the child how badly they were violated and humiliated - in the adult's mind - then the kid wouldn't believe it either.

Again, the big problem here is not that someone gets their pants or top pulled down - that's just a minor inconvenience. The big problem is the cultural reaction - that other kids laugh and point at the bullied kid because the adults have managed to teach them it's a thing to laugh and point about.
gkam
1.5 / 5 (15) Dec 12, 2016
"11 year old kids pantsing or pulling down tops, or calling each other bad names is not sexual harassment in the adult sense."
----------------------------

You have the sensitivity of a doorstop.

Are you a bot?

My daughter needed professional counseling from it. Please go away.
jeffensley
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 12, 2016
My daughter needed professional counseling from it. Please go away.


I think one has to consider the possibility (as suggested by Eikka whom I happen to agree with) that the bigger deal we make of an event, the more trauma it inflicts on the intended victim. I don't believe we will ever stop bullying behavior from happening so it seems best to find ways to learn from it. Kids most affected by it (I was bullied throughout high school) tend to have lower self-esteem. Why should the words of another person have such an effect on emotional well-being? We grant too much power to the thoughts, feelings and words of others. A person with a healthy self-image isn't harmed by these things so learning that and not the unrealistic demand that bullying behavior stop, should be the end goal here. Expanding the definition of bullying and/or harassment and making society overly sensitive to the topic will end up being counter-productive in the end IMO.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 12, 2016
jeff, . . jeff, . . you're wrong. And insensitive. The reason she needed care was because she told the teachers and they shrugged it off. Repeatedly. She was helpless to stop it in that environment.

Healthy self-image? Now it's her fault?

I do not understand insensitivity. I guess I would not make a good conservative.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (14) Dec 12, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
jeff, . . you're wrong
then where is your proof that he is wrong?
because you say so?
or because you think you know better?

i, personally, gave him a 5 star because if you research the topic (you know, by reading psych journals and research) you will find that there is a considerable amount of evidence supporting his claim (and Eikka's)
for instance: SILVERMAN AND LA GRECA 2002
Herman, Dornbusch, Herron 1997

there is also refuting evidence - true- but this is because of the natural complexity of the human

so Jeff isn't being insensitive, he is being *factual*, and deserves at least the respect of a refute from science and not one from your stupidity, fallacious experience, percieved authority or some other neurotic argument
I do not understand insensitivity
nor do you understand engineering, law, Green energy, PV's, psychology or a lot of other stuff

so, per your request to clean up the site...
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Dec 12, 2016
My proof is what actually happened to my daughter.

Can I do that to yours? Is she the cause of it if I do?

Stumpy, get over your need to punish. It has taken over your life.
gkam
1.3 / 5 (14) Dec 12, 2016
My daughter was sexually harassed in Middle School which was traumatic, and these two anonymous snipers want me to believe it is her fault, and we make too big a thing over it.

What kind of corroded or incomplete character does it take to think like that?
jeffensley
3 / 5 (6) Dec 12, 2016
How exactly is it insensitive to want someone to possess the ability to shrug off the inevitable arrows that life (and fellow human beings) are going to sling at them?
Zzzzzzzz
1.8 / 5 (10) Dec 12, 2016
So you tell me - when a serial liar and fact-fabricator like gkam floods this site with 40-60 posts daily about his self-serving nonsense, what are we supposed to do?

Yes, the same dozen or so people take the time to refute the bullshit he makes up. And the mods do nothing i suppose because he generates traffic.

And none of this is going to change. Even if everybody gets banned, george would be back and a different set of people would have to refute him again.

This is the problem with psychopath trolls. Inflicting pain is their raison d'etre. This psychopath is here to feed.


You could try the "ignore" feature...... that's what its there for. Sometimes I think the sophomoric arguing is the reason some folks even come around......
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (13) Dec 12, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR_bully
My proof is
you provided a claim, not proof
Can I do that to yours?
1- strawman and diversion - you still aren't making any argument from evidence, especially since you cannot validate your claim

2- all three of my daughters would kick your *ss if you tried to sexually harass them

3- sniping troll comment

4- no one said it was her fault, ya f*cking illiterate moron
My daughter was ...
this is called anecdote, and there is no means to validate your claim unless you want to provide the police report and subsequent investigative file (usually sealed)

more to the point: it is only your own perspective on the situation, not valid, not factual, and not backed by evidence

as we already have demonstrated, you're a chronic liar and thus your "claims" can't be taken at face value as legitimate or even semi-factual

so, per your own request to clean up the site...
Zzzzzzzz
2 / 5 (12) Dec 12, 2016
11 year old kids pantsing or pulling down tops, or calling each other bad names is not sexual harassment in the adult sense. The motive is not sex, but bullying. Most of them have no idea what it even means when they do it, they just know adults make a great big deal about it.


Its obvious you were never an adolescent, and/or know nothing about the subject of bullying or sexual harassment/bullying in that age group. Once again, Eikka, you try to sound authorative on a subject you know nothing about.
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (13) Dec 12, 2016
You could try the "ignore" feature...... that's what its there for
@Zzzzz
yes and no

the problem really lies with the content and the intentional spreading of false information like liar-kam does

more to the point, this teaches no one how to differentiate between bullsh*t and science

it's plain to see the argument from authority she usually takes, which is one of the biggest problems with a lot of readers today - they assume that said person is an authority because [insert reason] and thus it's legitimate argument
(like the claim of ownership of an EV that they charge at night with PV's)

spreading misinformation like she does isn't victimless, and it has truly far reaching effects, especially to those who can't or don't know how to find accurate answers
https://www.youtu...EwjBXlZE
gkam
1.5 / 5 (15) Dec 12, 2016
stumpy, outgrow it. Your fixation on me and your cache of pictures and stuff about me is creepy.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (10) Dec 12, 2016
"ignore" feature
Oh thanks for the advice but I personally hate psychopaths and also derive pleasure from compelling them to expose themselves in public. I regard this as a community service.

"The high incidence of psychopathy in human society has a profound effect on the rest of us who must live on this planet, too, even those of us who have not been clinically traumatized. The individuals who constitute this 4 percent drain our relationships, our bank accounts, our accomplishments, our self-esteem, our very peace on earth.

"Yet surprisingly, many people know nothing about this disorder, or if they do, they think only in terms of violent psychopathy - murderers, serial killers, mass murderers - people who have conspicuously broken the law many times over, and who, if caught, will be imprisoned, maybe even put to death.

"We are not commonly aware of, nor do we usually identify, the larger number of nonviolent psychopaths among us..."

-a teaching opportunity.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (10) Dec 12, 2016
My daughter was sexually harassed in Middle School which was traumatic, and these two anonymous snipers want me to believe it is her fault, and we make too big a thing over it
Youre a liar. You made this story up like all the other garbage you drop here.
Estevan57
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 12, 2016
Dammit gkam you made me agree with Otto. But, alas, my b.s. alarm pings.

And no, please don't give me something to look up and prove such a thing. Creepy, dude.

Reported.
gkam
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 12, 2016
Creepy is right. Did you see the Kamburoff file Stumpy has hidden away in his Secret Place? This has gone way past the "game" stage.

The story is true.

What is wrong with you people? Is your character the same as theirs? Did you believe their stuff? Really?
Estevan57
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 12, 2016
Sure did. Wow, you sure were stupid to send someone all that.

The character people have a problem with is yours.

Read your first (whiny) post. You call people names and talk about yourself. Just about sums up your existence doesn't it?

Pick a fight and talk about yourself. Pitiful.
Captain Stumpy
4.1 / 5 (9) Dec 12, 2016
Pick a fight and talk about yourself. Pitiful.
combo bully and this: http://www.yourli...artid=65

http://outofthefo...mization

Wow, you sure were stupid to send someone all that.
worse: i told her that anything she sent would be posted for all to see - and i told her specifically to redact anything she sent (all that is clearly visible on the link, too)

so it was insanely stupid in many different ways

it was all so she could claim martyrdom or victimization

too bad for her i saved all the evidence to refute that
After all, she did threaten to litigate (and even asked for my help to sue Otto)

as anyone can plainly see, it is a tactic that a bully would take to insure they are "justified" in their bullying -delusional justification

and you can see above that she uses it as justification to continue bullying the site and myself, Otto, Ira and anyone who disagree's with her
MarsBars
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 13, 2016
... she uses it as justification to continue bullying the site and myself, Otto, Ira and anyone who disagree's with her


What's that Captain - you, Otto and Ira are the VICTIMS of bullying?

LOL!!

TheGhostofOtto1923
3.9 / 5 (11) Dec 13, 2016
The story is true
It's a lie. We know it's a lie because your name is trash here.
What's wrong with you people?
We hate lying cheating psychopaths.
Uncle Ira
4.6 / 5 (9) Dec 13, 2016
@ Mars-Skippy. How you are? I am good, thanks for asking.

What's that Captain - you, Otto and Ira are the VICTIMS of bullying?


I'll let Captain-Skippy and Otto-Skippy speak for them selfs, but non, I am not the VICTIMS of bullying. I have a pretty good life me.

Zzzzzzzz
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 13, 2016
You could try the "ignore" feature...... that's what its there for
@Zzzzz
yes and no

the problem really lies with the content and the intentional spreading of false information like liar-kam does

more to the point, this teaches no one how to differentiate between bullsh*t and science

it's plain to see the argument from authority she usually takes, which is one of the biggest problems with a lot of readers today - they assume that said person is an authority because [insert reason] and thus it's legitimate argument
(like the claim of ownership of an EV that they charge at night with PV's)

spreading misinformation like she does isn't victimless, and it has truly far reaching effects, especially to those who can't or don't know how to find accurate answers

I agree with the philosophy. I'm not so sure of its application in this case.... I don't always have the interest in debunking the obvious trolling, but I'm glad others do
gkam
1 / 5 (8) Dec 13, 2016
zzz, I suggest you ask me for the proof I sent the snipers, hoping to shame them into silence. It just made them madder.

When they think they are safe hiding behind phony identities, they get really nasty.

I deeply resent the shallow and abusive comments about my daughter. Grow the hell up.
gkam
1 / 5 (8) Dec 13, 2016
Arthur, this started by me discussing issues directly related to the topic. Yes, I had a very unusual life, I see in retrospect, but it is true. Yup, I worked on them-there rocket planes, and they screamed "LIAR!" and other nasties. So, I sent them the front page of the newspaper of the Air Force Flight Test Center with my name and picture on it, that did it.

Every time I try to relate some personal experience so they understand how it really works, they go nuts.

I go by my name in my business, and all my work was word-of-mouth. I did not hide, I was open about my life, as an honest businessman.

What happened to the rest of you? How did many of you get so hateful, so nasty, so abusive?

And they all HIDE behind pseudonyms.

I am George Kamburoff. A real person. Who are you?

Captain Stumpy
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 13, 2016
you, Otto and Ira are the VICTIMS
@mars
victim?
no

recipient?
yes

she has repeatedly threatened to sue me simply because she can't prove her comments with evidence

personally, i think its hilarious - but think on that just a moment

only a bully would threaten to litigate because someone proved they were an idiot and lying

... hell, even rc, cd and reg don't threaten to litigate and they've been proven liars for far, far longer

.

.

@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
they all HIDE behind pseudonyms.
so, your birth name is gkam?

dipsh*t
Uncle Ira
4.5 / 5 (8) Dec 13, 2016
only a bully would threaten to litigate because someone proved they were an idiot and lying
And threaten to contact our family and neighbors to tell them how mean we are. He should be thankful that none of us are as lame as him and contact HIS family and neighbors to show them how mentally ill he is (as if they don't already know.)

How many times he ask for peoples to tell him who they are so he can "inform our families"? glam-Skippy is truly a man with serious mental conditions.

Maybe we should give the Skippy what he keeps threatening us with?
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 13, 2016
How many times he ask for peoples to tell him who they are so he can "inform our families"?
@Ira
Or our jobs, bosses, managers etc...
heck, he even threatened to talk to the VA ! LMFAO
Maybe we should give the Skippy what he keeps threatening us with?
methinks they are already far, far more familiar with his deficiencies than even we are...

i truly think they encourage him to post on PO and get his self-victimization and self-martyr crap out all here simply because it gives them peace

TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (8) Dec 13, 2016
@ gkam. You seem to have this uncontrollable compulsion to lay out your life for the world on this forum. Why?
Georges aim is to make people dance for him like you are.

You can't reason with psychopaths. They want you to waste your time and effort. Only thing do is to shine the light on them and warn people to keep their distance.

"In short, the psychopath - and the narcissist to a lesser extent - is a predator. If we think about the interactions of predators with their prey in the animal kingdom, we can come to some idea of what is behind the "mask of sanity" of the psychopath... we can only say that it seems to be that the psychopath ENJOYS making others suffer. Just as normal humans enjoy seeing other people happy, or doing things that make other people smile, the psychopath enjoys the exact opposite."

-Reminds me of the time I went to work and found a rabid racoon standing outside-
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (8) Dec 13, 2016
I go by my name in my business, and all my work was word-of-mouth. I did not hide, I was open about my life, as an honest businessman
More outrageous OT bullshit. You haven't worked in decades. And according to you you got fired from every job you ever had.

See? Otto jumps through hoops for george kamburoff as well.
MarsBars
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 14, 2016
A reminder that this site has guidelines for posting comments, which include the following:

"Be civil: Please respond insightfully and respectfully, avoiding personal attacks and name calling. Do not make comments that are threatening, obscene, profane, contain hate speech or degrade others. Personal attacks will not be tolerated."

"Comments that will be deleted include:
abusive, snarky, obscene, or just plain nasty remarks about anything or anyone"

I expect robust debate on many of the scientific issues raised in phys.org articles. But when it degenerates into the personal sniping and name-calling featured in far too many posts to this and other articles, it is tiresomely similar to the worst YouTube commenting.

"I'm disappointed by the snideness and cynicism of some of the posts here; I expected better from the people who post at phys.org." said docroc67 in November 2014.

Nothing seems to have improved in the ensuing two years. Where are the moderators?
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2016
MarsBars, we have a few snipers here who think this is their forum, and filthy words and hateful comments can scare all others away. Their own character is so poor, this is where they live, unable to have normal relationships.

For the snipers and the Ignorati:

https://www.thegu...comments

You hateful folk just outed yourselves as sociopaths, unfeeling goobers, stuck here for a life.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Dec 15, 2016
I expect robust debate...But when it degenerates into the personal sniping and name-calling featured in far too many posts...
@Mars
then i suggest you argue, like i and others have, for either:
-moderation of the site per the free method already promoted to the site admin
OR
for the removal of comments

why?

because people like gkam: http://phys.org/n...id-.html

talking to the site mods
Are you aware of your own laws??
...
I have had trouble finding a good defamation attorney there, but will not give up. What is your exposure to a defamation lawsuit? Got lawyered-up?

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