Seeds of black holes could be revealed by gravitational waves detected in space

June 27, 2016, Durham University
Gas and stars in a slice of the EAGLE simulations at the present day. The intensity shows the gas density, while the color encodes the gas temperature. Researchers used the EAGLE simulations to predict the rate at which gravitational waves caused by collisions between supermassive black holes might be detected. Credit: The EAGLE project/Stuart McAlpine

Scientists led by Durham University's Institute for Computational Cosmology ran the huge cosmological simulations that can be used to predict the rate at which gravitational waves caused by collisions between the monster black holes might be detected.

The amplitude and frequency of these waves could reveal the initial mass of the seeds from which the first black holes grew since they were formed 13 billion years ago and provide further clues about what caused them and where they formed, the researchers said.

The research is being presented today (Monday, June 27, 2016) at the Royal Astronomical Society's National Astronomy Meeting in Nottingham, UK. It was funded by the Science and Technology Facilities Council, the European Research Council and the Belgian Interuniversity Attraction Poles Programme.

The study combined simulations from the EAGLE project - which aims to create a realistic simulation of the known Universe inside a computer - with a model to calculate gravitational wave signals.

Two detections of gravitational waves caused by collisions between supermassive black holes should be possible each year using space-based instruments such as the Evolved Laser Interferometer Space Antenna (eLISA) detector that is due to launch in 2034, the researchers said.

13.8 billion years of evolution of the gas in the EAGLE simulations. The intensity shows the gas density, while the colour encodes the gas temperature. Researchers used EAGLE simulations to predict the rate at which gravitational waves caused by collisions between supermassive black holes might be detected. Credit: The EAGLE project/Stuart McAlpine

In February the international LIGO and Virgo collaborations announced that they had detected gravitational waves for the first time using ground-based instruments and in June reported a second detection.

As eLISA will be in space - and will be at least 250,000 times larger than detectors on Earth - it should be able to detect the much lower frequency gravitational waves caused by collisions between supermassive black holes that are up to a million times the mass of our sun.

Current theories suggest that the seeds of these black holes were the result of either the growth and collapse of the first generation of stars in the Universe; collisions between stars in dense stellar clusters; or the direct collapse of extremely massive stars in the early Universe.

As each of these theories predicts different initial masses for the seeds of seeds, the collisions would produce different gravitational wave signals.

This means that the potential detections by eLISA could help pinpoint the mechanism that helped create supermassive black holes and when in the history of the Universe they formed.

13.8 billion years of evolution of the dark matter in the EAGLE simulations. The intensity shows the density of dark matter. Researchers used EAGLE simulations to predict the rate at which gravitational waves caused by collisions between supermassive black holes might be detected. Credit: The EAGLE project/Stuart McAlpine

Lead author Jaime Salcido, PhD student in Durham University's Institute for Computational Cosmology, said: "Understanding more about gravitational waves means that we can study the Universe in an entirely different way.

"These waves are caused by massive collisions between objects with a mass far greater than our sun.

"By combining the detection of gravitational waves with simulations we could ultimately work out when and how the first seeds of supermassive black holes formed."

Co- author Professor Richard Bower, of Durham University's Institute for Computational Cosmology, added: "Black holes are fundamental to galaxy formation and are thought to sit at the centre of most galaxies, including our very own Milky Way.

"Discovering how they came to be where they are is one of the unsolved problems of cosmology and astronomy.

STFC short film on Einstein's Theory of General Relativity

"Our research has shown how space based detectors will provide new insights into the nature of supermassive ."

Gravitational waves were first predicted 100 years ago by Albert Einstein as part of his Theory of General Relativity.

The waves are concentric ripples caused by violent events in the Universe that squeeze and stretch the fabric of space time but most are so weak they cannot be detected.

LIGO detected gravitational waves using ground-based instruments, called interferometers, that use laser beams to pick up subtle disturbances caused by the waves.

eLISA will work in a similar way, detecting the small changes in distances between three satellites that will orbit the sun in a triangular pattern connected by beams from lasers in each satellite.

In June it was reported that the LISA Pathfinder, the forerunner to eLISA, had successfully demonstrated the technology that opens the door to the development of a large space observatory capable of detecting in space.

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Chris_Reeve
Jun 27, 2016
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Protoplasmix
4.7 / 5 (14) Jun 27, 2016
With so much ambiguity in the definitions of these constructs
General relativity is ambiguous? What part of it, specifically, are you having trouble with?
We are by now deep in the grips of classical pseudoscience here.
You speak for yourself. All the troll spew isn't the least bit gripping for critical thinkers.
ursiny33
1 / 5 (7) Jun 27, 2016
Gravity is a by product of charged particle mass, its dependent on it for its existence, in a high velocity collision of two mass's the only thing released is a third of the combined charged particle mass escaping those mass's. Spread out mass untill its consolidated back into a single mass, so any gravitational wave consist of charged particle matter having gravity , please
Chris_Reeve
Jun 27, 2016
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Chris_Reeve
Jun 27, 2016
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Protoplasmix
4.3 / 5 (12) Jun 27, 2016
It's hardly proper to conflate relativity with black holes
Are you new here?
But, many black holes are today recognized to have jets. Those jets emit synchrotron radiation, which is electrons spiraling in a magnetic field. In other words, one of the key features of black holes is a very long (light years) electric current
If you want a more complete understanding of the much bigger picture of the dynamics of black hole jets, you need to include magnetohydrodynamics (both positively and negatively charged particles) with the relativity.

Have a look a some good simulations (that match observations well) of jets from supermassive black holes, and note that the simulation was "based solely on magnetic field interactions with ionized gas particles," – Breakout: How black hole jets punch out of their galaxies
Chris_Reeve
Jun 28, 2016
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barakn
4.4 / 5 (13) Jun 28, 2016
Don Scott from Thunderbolts of the Gods at https://youtu.be/...A?t=1544 ...

"The black hole, as Wheeler originally visualized it, sucked everything -- including light -- in. And so, therefore, it was invisible. So, he could postulate its existence, and we couldn't see it. ... we couldn't prove that it wasn't there. Later on, in order to explain these fantastic emissions of energy from galaxies, it was proposed -- and I believe it was Stephen Hawking who did it -- that there were various types of black holes, some of which actually then spat matter back out again in jets -- because why? Because we had observed jets."
Don Scott is either an idiot or a charlatan. No serious physicist has ever claimed that the jets come from within a black hole, but rather from the twisted magnetic fields that accumulate around a spinning black hole. Hawking radiation came about not as an explanation for jets but to reconcile extreme gravity with thermodynamics and quantum mechanics.
barakn
4.4 / 5 (13) Jun 28, 2016
The smallest black holes are postulated to produce the most power from Hawking radiation (even a black hole as small as the mass of the Moon will absorb more cosmic microwave background radiation than it will emit as Hawking radiation) whereas the biggest, most monstrous black holes can sport the biggest jets. They are simply different phenomena and it's very telling that neither Don Scott nor HannesAlfven/Chris_Reeve/plasmasrevenge is aware of the difference.
Protoplasmix
4.6 / 5 (11) Jun 28, 2016
Maybe you should be asking whether or not MHD actually applies in this situation
Sure, and the obvious answer is it appears that it should, because the simulation matches observation very well, and more importantly it helps explain the observed Fanaroff-Riley morphological dichotomy of supermassive black hole jets as a function of the galactic core mass and radius which together yield a "critical power" above (or below) which the jets are stable (or unstable).
MHD lacks any ability to model any EMF. What you are looking at is plainly an electric current. Why would you use a fluids-based set of equations to describe an electric current? There are clearly aspects to electric currents which do not exist in fluids
Why fluids-based? Because it's the dynamics of matter moving in a magnetic field and in this situation the ambient medium (the ISM) is not solid. The flow of matter modifies the field – the equations for field and dynamics are coupled.
TehDog
4.3 / 5 (11) Jun 28, 2016
Chris Reeve - CR
Don Scott - DS

Alphabet juggling?

I have no idea if CR's extensive quotes are from DS's work, they're the only poster I have on ignore.
(JGaaP stuff ongoing, got sidetracked by Quake's 20th, and some video capture software :)
RealityCheck
1.4 / 5 (11) Jun 28, 2016
Hi barakn, Protoplasmix, TehDog, Chris Reeve, everyone. :)

Consider all the mainstream versions of the BH phenomena/morphology. When you do, you will find Torus/Ring versions; with a central opening which can accommodate electro-magnetic field effects 'flow-through'. :)

In such cases the whole phenomena is a HYBRID case involving both gravity and plasma/electro-magnetic forces (as I have been pointing out to everyone for years now).

So assuming that the Black Feature Jets system have no 'extension' involving central region 'flow-throughs' (within the overall 'sphere' of surrounding space event horizon) is only just that at this juncture...an assumption.

So at this juncture it's best to avoid source/reputation based 'certainties' and just concentrate on both the known mainstream science/versions as well as any alternative versions which may be reasonable according to what we know so far about both GR and QM possibilities.

Cheers all. :)
Phys1
4.6 / 5 (11) Jun 30, 2016
@Chris Reeve
There are clearly aspects to electric currents which do not exist in fluids.

The counterexample of mercury invalidates your statement.
It is a liquid at room temperature and it conducts electrical current very well.
Any liquid metal does.
Phys1
4.6 / 5 (11) Jun 30, 2016
@RC
You should study the Reissner–Nordström (1916-1918) and the Kerr-Newman (1965) metrics, which describe black holes with EM field. Physicists are aware of this possibility for about a century longer than you. Some humility is in order here.
Of course the accretion disk in general also has a non-vanishing EM field.
https://en.wikipe...m_metric
https://en.wikipe...c_fields
Phys1
4.7 / 5 (12) Jun 30, 2016
@Chris Reeve
Why would you use a fluids-based set of equations to describe an electric current?

Plasma's have properties in common with more conventional fluids, that is why.
It is a useful approximation if as usually the case a full dynamic treatment is unfeasible.
viko_mx
1 / 5 (7) Jul 02, 2016
Chris_Reeve

"With so much ambiguity in the definitions of these constructs, and so few constraints applied by the domain itself, this approach will lead to the proliferation of yet more popular nonsense. We are by now deep in the grips of classical pseudoscience here."

Exactly. The Babylonian shamanic anti science which rely exclusively on endless conjuration mantras and consensus implemented by ancient but restored in these days Rоman pagan voting system.

Black holes are non existing never seen in physycal reality fictional highly speculative mathematical objects. Like dark matter and energy representing dark cult in shamanic society.

Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (7) Jul 03, 2016
some of which actually then spat matter back out again in jets
@chris reeve
1- black holes don't "spit out" anything

2- the "spitting out" that you are referring to comes from the accretion disk around the BH

3- don scott is a charlatan

4- thunderbutts is not source material, nor is it valid physics: if you have a relevant study to post, find it in a peer reviewed journal, not on an eu crank site

5- Barakn said it best
No serious physicist has ever claimed that the jets come from within a black hole, but rather from the twisted magnetic fields that accumulate around a spinning black hole. Hawking radiation came about not as an explanation for jets but to reconcile extreme gravity with thermodynamics and quantum mechanics
rather than following a known pseudoscience site i suggest starting here:
http://ocw.mit.ed...ophysics

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