Arctic warmth unprecedented in 44,000 years, reveals ancient moss

Jan 21, 2014

When the temperature rises on Baffin Island, in the Canadian high Arctic, ancient Polytrichum mosses, trapped beneath the ice for thousands of years, are exposed. Using radiocarbon dating, new research in Geophysical Research Letters has calculated the age of relic moss samples that have been exposed by modern Arctic warming. Since the moss samples would have been destroyed by erosion had they been previously exposed, the authors suggest that the temperatures in the Arctic are warmer than during any sustained period since the mosses were originally buried.

The authors collected 365 samples of recently exposed biological material from 110 different locations, cutting a 1000 kilometer long transect across Baffin Island. From their samples the authors obtained 145 viable measurements through radiocarbon dating. They found that most of their samples date from the past 5000 years, when a period of strong cooling overtook the Arctic. However, the authors also found older samples which were buried from 24,000 to 44,000 years ago.

The records suggest that in general, the eastern Canadian Arctic is warmer now than in any century in the past 5000 years, and in some places, modern temperatures are unprecedented in at least the past 44,000 years. The observations, the authors suggest, show that modern Arctic warming far exceeds the bounds of historical natural variability.

"The great time these plants have been entombed in ice, and their current exposure, is the first direct evidence that present summer warmth in the Eastern Canadian Arctic now exceeds the peak warmth there in the Early Holocene era", said Gifford Miller, from the University of Colorado. "Our findings add additional evidence to the growing consensus that anthropogenic emissions of greenhouse gases have now resulted in unprecedented recent summer warmth that is well outside the range of that attributable to natural climate variability."

Explore further: Study shows unprecedented warmth in Arctic

More information: Gifford H. Miller, Scott J. Lehman, Kurt A. Refsnider, John R. Southon, Yafang Zhong, 'Unprecedented recent summer warmth in Arctic Canada', Geophysical Research Letters, DOI: 10.1002/2013GL057188

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The Shootist
2.1 / 5 (19) Jan 21, 2014
Green Fade-Out: Europe to Ditch Climate Protection Goals


http://www.spiege...book.com

With liberty and justice for all.
runrig
3.6 / 5 (17) Jan 21, 2014
Green Fade-Out: Europe to Ditch Climate Protection Goals


http://www.spiege...book.com

With liberty and justice for all.


Look, I don't give a toss of your link - the mere stating of a part of the US Bill of Rights as a repudiation of AGW, firmly puts your motivations into the partcularly American bracket of nausea - and frankly, it's getting on my tits. Big time.
Skepticus
3 / 5 (4) Jan 21, 2014
Unprecedented or preposterous, it's all the same to the numskulls. The taxidermist who fist listed and name the Homo genus as Homo Sapien Sapiens (wise man) should be shot. Then the remains should be dig up, and shot again!
Captain Stumpy
4.1 / 5 (9) Jan 21, 2014
Green Fade-Out: Europe to Ditch Climate Protection Goals


http://www.spiege...book.com

With liberty and justice for all.

@The Shootist
Your post is off topic

and i am not sure why it used cooling towers from nuclear plants billowing steam as a picture

The Shootist
1.6 / 5 (14) Jan 21, 2014
@Capt Stumpy: News about "Climate Change" is often off topic (as it has nothing to do with climate and everything to do with politicians picking citizen's pockets).

Dairy. Farms. In. Alaska. c.~850CE - 1200 CE
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (9) Jan 21, 2014
@Capt Stumpy: News about "Climate Change" is often off topic (as it has nothing to do with climate and everything to do with politicians picking citizen's pockets).

Dairy. Farms. In. Alaska. c.~850CE - 1200 CE


@The Shootist
and you are inferring what?
climate change is not real? there is no warming?
or is this nothing more than a political rant?
please specify
Returners
1.6 / 5 (14) Jan 21, 2014
They call it "unprecedented," but their own data shows it happened twice in the past several tens of thousands of years.

You know, they could try figuring out what really caused those previous changes, and then see what the pattern is for us today, instead of trying to blame it all on human activities.

So he says most of the samples date to a period 5k years ago, when a "strong cooling" overtook the arctic. Ah...so we know these things quite obviously happen 100% naturally.

So the gripe is what? The climate was warm in the past, as we knew?

He's upset because I'm right, basically, and the climate was warm in the past, and humans didn't go extinct either.

Seriously.
Benni
2 / 5 (13) Jan 21, 2014
Baffin Island was warm enough in the past to grow moss, it was cold enough in the past to make it go dormant or kill it, and then it happened all over again almost right on cycle, that is the "wobble cycle" of the Earth's axis of rotation. The best man can do is by not exacerbating the cycle too much which peripherally he may be able to do, but on the same note I seriously doubt the campfires of stone age cultures had much to do with the recession of the last Ice Age of 12-15,000 years ago & which will continue until we are more than halfway through the present cycle.

Interestingly enough, the wobble cycle of Earth's rotational axis seems to correlate closely with the time required for our solar system to complete a full orbital passage around the galactic core of the Milky Way. As we study these phenomena In our astronomy club, we take note of such things & refrain from labeling them as anomalies, at the same time we don't label them as coincident data.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (10) Jan 21, 2014
Interestingly enough, the wobble cycle of Earth's rotational axis seems to correlate closely with the time required for our solar system to complete a full orbital passage around the galactic core of the Milky Way. As we study these phenomena In our astronomy club, we take note of such things & refrain from labeling them as anomalies, at the same time we don't label them as coincident data.

Benni, I checked this in Wiki.
Galactic orbit duration approximately 225-250 million years.
Complete wobble cycle of earth rotational axis about 7 years?
Am i looking at the wrong wobble cycle?
Milankovitch doesn't match that either
RealScience
5 / 5 (12) Jan 21, 2014
the wobble cycle of Earth's rotational axis seems to correlate closely with the time required for our solar system to complete a full orbital passage around the galactic core of the Milky Way. As we study these phenomena In our astronomy club...


What are you and the astronomy club smoking - star dust?

The sun takes over 200,000,000 years to go around the galactic core.
In contrast the precession of the earths axis is only ~26,000 years and the change in the slant of the axis is roughly 40,000 years. Even the stretching of the earth's orbit is only ~140,000 years, which is still more than three orders of magnitude shorter than the sun's orbital period around the galaxy.
Captain Stumpy
4.9 / 5 (9) Jan 21, 2014
@benni
"wobble cycle"

chandler wobble
the wobble cycle of Earth's rotational axis seems to correlate closely with the time required for our solar system to complete a full orbital passage around the galactic core of the Milky Way

No, it is not.
You are basing your comments on faith, and not science
if you are using science, at least do SOME homework

First off: the wobble is called "Chandler Wobble" and has a cycle of about 430 days
https://en.wikipe...r_wobble

if you are going to do science
do science, not guesses or faith
especially if you are on a science site
and arguing about a hot topic

use facts
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (9) Jan 22, 2014
@Benni
First off: the wobble is called "Chandler Wobble" and has a cycle of about 430 days

https://en.wikipe...r_wobble

your galactic orbital passage is called a "Galactic Year" or "Cosmic Year" and can take 225 250 million terrestrial years

https://en.wikipe...tic_year

what you THINK you are referring to is the "precession" which is about 26,000 yrs

https://en.wikipe...ecession

the information contained herein was left out of the original post above.
sorry
i hope it helps
goracle
4.2 / 5 (10) Jan 22, 2014
The Shootist nailed his foot:
@Capt Stumpy: News about "Climate Change" is often off topic (as it has nothing to do with climate and everything to do with politicians picking citizen's pockets).

Dairy. Farms. In. Alaska. c.~850CE - 1200 CE

Sure there were. Not far from the dinosaur pastures. That's the ticket...
Benni
1.5 / 5 (8) Jan 22, 2014
@Benni
First off: the wobble is called "Chandler Wobble" and has a cycle of about 430 days


.....wasn't referring to the Chandler, I didn't go into detail of the precessional rotation, which is a cyclical wobble just like a top, look it up...........interestingly the 26000 year cycle of this wobble is just about the distance in light years to the galactic core 25-26000 years. The orbital period of 230- 250 million years are numbers similar in appearance to one another that I simply misstated the wobble period in conjunction with the orbital & the distance to the galactic core.

At least you learned that there is a 26000 year wobble period you never knew about before, & you also learned it governs climate patterns which you never knew about before.......so slow down & learn some civility before going off on a name calling tangent, most of you above.
RealScience
5 / 5 (10) Jan 22, 2014
@Benni - My guess was that by wobble you were referring to the 26,000 year cycle, but the distance to the galactic center is so different from the 225-250 million years for rotation around the galactic core that it didn't occur to me that someone in an astronomy club had mixed them up.

As for the 26,000 year cycle and the distance to the center of the galaxy, the cause of the 26,000 year cycle is known and is local to our solar system (the sun and the moon pulling on the earth's rotational bulge). The sun is just one of billions of stars at all distances, so any feedback between its distance and the center of the galaxy would also be lost among billions of other suns. Furthermore the precessional period changes as the moon moves away from the earth and as the earth's rotation slows, so the 'match' is only a temporary thing. Therefore the earth's current 26,000 year precessional period is almost certainly unrelated to the distance to the center of the galaxy.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (10) Jan 22, 2014
@Benni
At least you learned that there is a 26000 year wobble period you never knew about before

if I DIDNT know about it, I would NOT have told you
so the above is just an assumption based on ignorance
you also learned it governs climate patterns which you never knew about before

another assumption based on ignorance
so slow down & learn some civility before going off on a name calling tangent

I asked you in another thread what you meant
you ignored it
therefore it was a logical conclusion (in this thread) that you were:
stupid OR
ignorant OR
confused, and mis-posted

which elicited my comments

now we are at least on the same page
and we can move forward

make your case

p.s. Read the above post by RealScience
Benni
1.3 / 5 (7) Jan 22, 2014
@Benni

At least you learned that there is a 26000 year wobble period you never knew about before

if I DIDNT know about it, I would NOT have told you


The first mention of it was made by me, not yourself. You simply went to GOOGLE & plugged in 26000 year wobble & displayed the technical term for it.

you also learned it governs climate patterns which you never knew about before


another assumption based on ignorance


So you knew it? Or you didn't?
therefore it was a logical conclusion (in this thread) that you were:
stupid OR
ignorant OR
confused, and mis-posted

which elicited my comments


now we are at least on the same page
and we can move forward


No we are not on the same page, you give yourself too much credit for subject material that originated with me, not yourself.

Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (8) Jan 22, 2014
@benni
The first mention of it was made by me, not yourself

I never said otherwise
You simply went to GOOGLE

I dont use google except for e-mail
plugged in...

I DID search for "wobble" to get the technical term for "Chandler Wobble"
when I first asked you for clarification
http://phys.org/n...ier.html

you ignored that comment
I was even nice about it, as I was curious what you meant and you were not clear
So you knew it?

about the precession? Yes.
The term for the yearly wobble? Not the exact term, but I knew of it as well
you give yourself too much credit for subject material that originated with me, not yourself

and I think you are narcissistic and have issues reading, apparently
re-read what I said

starting to narrow down those three, benni

if you are going to post, it takes a few seconds to check your facts
like I have just done

try it sometime
RealScience
4.9 / 5 (11) Jan 22, 2014
@Benni - The chances of a phys.org reader already knowing about Milankovitch cycles and ice ages is pretty high. Even if he/she had never heard of it elsewhere (unlikely), phys.org itself has several articles per year on it.

The only thing new from you was mentioning that the wobble period is quite close to the time it takes light to reach our sun from the galactic center. However as explained above this is only true temporarily and is highly unlikely to be anything other than coincidence.
Maggnus
4.3 / 5 (12) Jan 23, 2014
But Cpt STumpy, Benni said he is an electrical engineer! Or was that mechanical? Well either way, he's an engineer! Don't you know that that means he doesn't have to check his facts or look up anything? And that he is automatically presumed to be right, even if he is wrong? Cause he's an engineer! He's far too smart for us poor folks to be questioning. I mean, look, he's an engineer! He told us that somewhere! Seems like it might have been on a climate thread somewhere, where he pronounced climate warming is all hogwash because he knows and he's an Engineer!

And us simply University edumacated folk don't hold no candles to Engineers! Cause they are Special trained an all! Cause they're all being ENGINEERS an all that!

Wow I feel so special being around this Engineer! Him being so special and stuff. He was even engineered in climate I think, cause he's so knowing bout how climate warming is hogwash and all.
Maggnus
4.3 / 5 (11) Jan 23, 2014
AN look Captin! He knows about that there Russian cycle stuff! SO glad he came here with all his engineering and all that to tell us, cause him being an engineer means he's so much more knowing about that stuff then us simple university graduates! Cause being how we only got to university and he's an Engineer an all, I mean come on, surely you don't think you can stand in the same light as him do you? He's an Engineer Cap Tin!
goracle
3.9 / 5 (8) Jan 23, 2014
Unprecedented or preposterous, it's all the same to the numskulls. The taxidermist who fist listed and name the Homo genus as Homo Sapien Sapiens (wise man) should be shot. Then the remains should be dig up, and shot again!

What does "fist listed" mean?
shavera
4 / 5 (8) Jan 23, 2014
It's kinda sad that one crackpot statement can derail the entire thread. I was hoping for many crackpots to chime in on this article for my amusement. Instead we're stuck talking about precession of orbits and "wobbles." 1/5 would not post again.
runrig
4.1 / 5 (9) Jan 23, 2014

.....wasn't referring to the Chandler, I didn't go into detail of the precessional rotation, which is a cyclical wobble just like a top, look it up...........interestingly the 26000 year cycle of this wobble is just about the distance in light years to the galactic core 25-26000 years. The orbital period of 230- 250 million years are numbers similar in appearance to one another that I simply misstated the wobble period in conjunction with the orbital & the distance to the galactic core.

At least you learned that there is a 26000 year wobble period you never knew about before, & you also learned it governs climate patterns which you never knew about before.......so slow down & learn some civility before going off on a name calling tangent, most of you above.


Excuse me you arrogant f**^^r .... people on here who are knowledgeable of this subject - I am a retired Meteorologist - take these things as a given - now go away please you little boy/girl and troll elsewhere.
Whydening Gyre
4.6 / 5 (7) Jan 23, 2014
No we are not on the same page, you give yourself too much credit for subject material that originated with me, not yourself.

Trying not to look like a overbearing ass here, but -
Subject material based on correlations even you admitted to be a mistake (off handedly, anyway).
You verbally made even further speculation based on those incorrect facts.
These guys are tough, here, in that regard, so ya can't take it so personally.
just sayin'...
Whydening Gyre
4.7 / 5 (9) Jan 23, 2014
Unprecedented or preposterous, it's all the same to the numskulls. The taxidermist who fist listed and name the Homo genus as Homo Sapien Sapiens (wise man) should be shot. Then the remains should be dig up, and shot again!

What does "fist listed" mean?

Porn industry is usually an early adopter of new science, maybe...
kivahut
2.3 / 5 (3) Jan 27, 2014
Those poor little mosses :'( Doesn't anyone care that they've been buried and cold for 44,000 years? Breaks my heart
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (6) Jan 27, 2014
Those poor little mosses :'( Doesn't anyone care that they've been buried and cold for 44,000 years? Breaks my heart
LOL.

AGWites think a colder Earth is a better Earth, not comprehending you can't grow food in ice.

Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (6) Jan 27, 2014
Those poor little mosses :'( Doesn't anyone care that they've been buried and cold for 44,000 years? Breaks my heart
LOL.

AGWites think a colder Earth is a better Earth, not comprehending you can't grow food in ice.


@uba
this is patently false and is supported by ZERO data
would love to see your references/links on this one
EnricM
4.2 / 5 (5) Jan 27, 2014
Green Fade-Out: Europe to Ditch Climate Protection Goals


http://www.spiege...book.com

With liberty and justice for all.


Well, you shouldn't use our EU politics for US goals.

First of all: We don't believe in the existence of a conspiracy theories involving the Illuminati, a world spanning underground network of evil climate scientists powerful enough to influence governments around the globe just to have a secure job and get tax money from you guys in the USA. Secondly: We have no doubts about evolution ;)

If you translate the article from plain English into plain English, what it says is that the way the climate change will be addressed will be different as the one proposed initially by Germany... that's all. And it sill has to be seen that the powerful Germans do not get what they want... EUR is king ;)
EnricM
4.4 / 5 (7) Jan 27, 2014
@Capt Stumpy: News about "Climate Change" is often off topic (as it has nothing to do with climate and everything to do with politicians picking citizen's pockets).

Dairy. Farms. In. Alaska. c.~850CE - 1200 CE


Nice. How did the cows went to Alaska in the year 850? Have you ever heard about a guy called Columbus? So, there where diary farms in Alaska 150 years before Leif Eriksson? The cows fleeced themselves I suppose... and being this intelligent also explains how they survived the local native american tribes. I assume that the produce was exported to the Byzantine Empire by plane from Anchorage, right?

Pity that the Evil Climate Scientists used a time machine borrowed from SPECTRA to kill all the intelligent self-fleecing cows :_(
Maggnus
5 / 5 (6) Jan 27, 2014
Those poor little mosses :'( Doesn't anyone care that they've been buried and cold for 44,000 years? Breaks my heart
LOL.

AGWites think a colder Earth is a better Earth, not comprehending you can't grow food in ice.

Really Ubas, must you misrepresent everything? You can't grow food in a desert either.

Of course, given the article is about moss that has been under ice for the last 44,000 years and have appeared because said ice is melting away due to global warming, and given that the ice retreated over the last 15+ years, I guess you have to say something to try and support your ridiculous contention that warming has stopped over that period.

Ok here's your chance, put up that chart you don't actually understand again!
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (4) Jan 27, 2014
Those poor little mosses :'( Doesn't anyone care that they've been buried and cold for 44,000 years? Breaks my heart

Yeah, but... do they come back to life now that they are exposed?
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (6) Jan 28, 2014
Those poor little mosses :'( Doesn't anyone care that they've been buried and cold for 44,000 years? Breaks my heart
LOL.

AGWites think a colder Earth is a better Earth, not comprehending you can't grow food in ice.
this is patently false and is supported by ZERO data
would love to see your references/links on this one
Why do I need a reference? All I need is a little logic, à la Captain Stumpy...

AGWites are abhored at the thought of a warmer globe, even though a warmer globe has historically supported more life.

And they apparently likewise abhor a static climate, as it's been static for more than a decade and they still aren't satisfied.

Therefore, AGWites are for cooling.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (6) Jan 28, 2014
Those poor little mosses :'( Doesn't anyone care that they've been buried and cold for 44,000 years? Breaks my heart
LOL.

AGWites think a colder Earth is a better Earth, not comprehending you can't grow food in ice.

Really Ubas, must you misrepresent everything? You can't grow food in a desert either.
Man, you don't know ANYTHING about agriculture, or the environment, do you?

http://en.wikiped..._farming

Of course, given the article is about moss that has been under ice for the last 44,000 years and have appeared because said ice is melting away due to global warming, and given that the ice retreated over the last 15+ years, I guess you have to say something to try and support your ridiculous contention that warming has stopped over that period.

Ok here's your chance, put up that chart you don't actually understand again!
Says the moron who just demonstrated profound ignorance.

Maggnus
4.2 / 5 (5) Jan 28, 2014
Man, you don't know ANYTHING about agriculture, or the environment, do you?
Actually yes I do, and apparently quite a bit more than you do. Gee, from your own link:
Desert farming generally relies on irrigation
That water has to come from somewhere.
have long practiced (and continue to practice) desert agriculture without irrigation. This is highly dependent upon both winter snow and rain and summer monsoonal weather patterns which move moist tropical air
Oh there's that water thing again.
Despite its success over a period of (likely) up to 14,000 years, there have been great difficulties with this form of agriculture since a drought beginning in 2002, with global warming suspected in changing weather patterns,
Oh my, look at that. Lack of water due to global warming.
American Indians in the Sonoran Desert and elsewhere relied both on irrigation and a type of farming that depended on "washes
Yep, you sure do know a lot about farming there Uba!
Maggnus
4.2 / 5 (5) Jan 28, 2014
Says the moron who just demonstrated profound ignorance
About agriculture! Could not have said it better myself!

You really should try reading those links you cite to Uba, you wouldn't look like such a fool so often!
kathrynubl
1 / 5 (4) Jan 31, 2014
I am sad to see a so-called scientific site stooping to this hogwash. I can only suspect science still believes there is more profit in AGW than in scientific discovery, hypotheses, and verifiable positions. http://notalotofp...facts-3/

How much grant money did this scientist receive? I need that answered.

The UN started this when it proposed that mankind is a blight on an otherwise pristine planet. They then hired scientists to write computer models to prove same. The models did just that! Amazing.

Trillions wasted............Around the world, eople walking half a day for water, freezing in winter, dying in summer, and we are arguing that humans have too much impact on the miraculous, chaotic, self-regulating climate system.

I am so ashamed of American science. James Hansen at NASA and Phil Jones at UK CRU are the scientists who worked for the UN. They referred to themselves as 'the team" in the emails.
Maggnus
4 / 5 (4) Feb 01, 2014
How much grant money did this scientist receive? I need that answered.
Just more of the same old innuendo and claims of conspiracy.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (4) Feb 02, 2014
Man, you don't know ANYTHING about agriculture, or the environment, do you?
Actually yes I do, and apparently quite a bit more than you do. Gee, from your own link:
Desert farming generally relies on irrigation
That water has to come from somewhere.
have long practiced (and continue to practice) desert agriculture without irrigation. This is highly dependent upon both winter snow and rain and summer monsoonal weather patterns which move moist tropical air
Oh there's that water thing again.
Despite its success over a period of (likely) up to 14,000 years, there have been great difficulties with this form of agriculture since a drought beginning in 2002, with global warming suspected in changing weather patterns,
Oh my, look at that. Lack of water due to global warming.
American Indians in the Sonoran Desert and elsewhere relied both on irrigation and a type of farming that depended on "washes
Yep, you sure do know a lot about farming there Uba!
LOL. You can't backpedal your way out of this. You made the blanket declaration, "You can't grow food in a desert." Obviously, you can grow food in the desert.

Stop being dishonest.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (4) Feb 02, 2014
Says the moron who just demonstrated profound ignorance
About agriculture! Could not have said it better myself!

You really should try reading those links you cite to Uba, you wouldn't look like such a fool so often!
Says the moronic fool who said, "You can't grow food in a desert." LOL

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