Humans not smarter than animals, just different, experts say

Dec 04, 2013
A yellow labrador retriver dog with pink nose. Credit: Wikipedia.

(Phys.org) —Humans have been deceiving themselves for thousands of years that they're smarter than the rest of the animal kingdom, despite growing evidence to the contrary, according to University of Adelaide experts in evolutionary biology.

"For millennia, all kinds of authorities – from religion to eminent scholars – have been repeating the same idea ad nauseam, that humans are exceptional by virtue that they are the smartest in the ," says Dr Arthur Saniotis, Visiting Research Fellow with the University's School of Medical Sciences.

"However, science tells us that can have cognitive faculties that are superior to beings."

He says the belief that humans have superior intelligence harks back to the Agricultural Revolution some 10,000 years ago when people began producing cereals and domesticating animals. This gained momentum with the development of organised religion, which viewed human beings as the top species in creation.

"The belief of human cognitive superiority became entrenched in human philosophy and sciences. Even Aristotle, probably the most influential of all thinkers, argued that humans were superior to other animals due to our exclusive ability to reason," Dr Saniotis says.

While animal rights began to rise in prominence during the 19th century, the drive of the Industrial Revolution forestalled any gains made in the awareness of other animals.

Professor Maciej Henneberg, a professor of anthropological and comparative anatomy from the School of Medical Sciences, says animals often possess different abilities that are misunderstood by humans.

"The fact that they may not understand us, while we do not understand them, does not mean our 'intelligences' are at different levels, they are just of different kinds. When a foreigner tries to communicate with us using an imperfect, broken, version of our language, our impression is that they are not very intelligent. But the reality is quite different," Professor Henneberg says.

"Animals offer different kinds of intelligences which have been under-rated due to humans' fixation on language and technology. These include social and kinaesthetic intelligence. Some mammals, like gibbons, can produce a large number of varied sounds – over 20 different sounds with clearly different meanings that allow these arboreal primates to communicate across tropical forest canopy. The fact that they do not build houses is irrelevant to the gibbons.

"Many quadrupeds leave complex olfactory marks in their environment, and some, like koalas, have special pectoral glands for scent marking. Humans, with their limited sense of smell, can't even gauge the complexity of messages contained in olfactory markings, which may be as rich in information as the visual world," he says.

Professor Henneberg says domestic pets also give us close insight into mental abilities of mammals and birds. "They can even communicate to us their demands and make us do things they want. The animal world is much more complex than we give it credit for," he says.

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kochevnik
2.2 / 5 (24) Dec 04, 2013
Michael, a gorilla who was taught sign language, described watching his mothers death. He can give testimony valid in a court, but he has no rights in the human world: https://www.youtu...sPqQ0Ycc
Plantastic
1.4 / 5 (20) Dec 04, 2013
I am growing a plant that moves like an animal when you Touch it. It is called the TickleMe Plant.
http://www.ticklemeplant.com
freethinking
2.2 / 5 (50) Dec 04, 2013
Only a progressive or an extremely shielded form the real world person would ever make the statement "When a foreigner tries to communicate with us using an imperfect, broken, version of our language, our impression is that they are not very intelligent."

Perhaps because I'm not a progressive or that I have real world experience, I know right from the get go that someone who cannot speak a language very well doesn't mean they are not intelligent.

But that said, I will agree that animals are smarter than progressives. Animals don't vote for Obama.
orti
3.2 / 5 (35) Dec 04, 2013
Interesting, but I think the researchers are making some unfounded assertions.

If they want to point to animals' special abilities as a reason for equivalence of intelligence, I too have special abilities, and ones that trump theirs. How did a physically weak, psychologically dependent, slow, naked, lacking in teeth and claws creature come to become dominant if we didn't have something going for us? We should be their lunch as our predecessors were for millions of years.

Animals do communicate, but do the gibbons put together their sounds into sentences to express new and abstract thoughts.

They rightly point out that animals are far more complex than scientists suspect. But I think that should be said of all life and the universe in general. I really doubt that Stephen Hawking is on the verge of a theory of everything – especially when each new discovery seems to raise more new questions than answer old ones – and that's just in the physics/cosmology realm.
dogbert
2.9 / 5 (31) Dec 04, 2013
He says [Dr Arthur Saniotis] the belief that humans have superior intelligence harks back to the Agricultural Revolution some 10,000 years ago when people began producing cereals and domesticating animals. This gained momentum with the development of organised religion, which viewed human beings as the top species in creation.


When someone purporting to be a scientist utters personal opinions as if they were established fact, the quality of their assertions are immediately suspect.

Animals are obviously inferior to human beings in their ability to reason. Any animal who is offended by that statement, speak up.
orti
2.6 / 5 (35) Dec 04, 2013
It sounds like PETA propaganda. Another example of phys.org couching left wing causes in scientific jargon.
Shakescene21
3.2 / 5 (29) Dec 04, 2013
This article doesn't qualify as science. It is a nonsense opinion by a wacky professor who is trying to find something creative to say. Why is this on Physorg???
mzso
2.8 / 5 (33) Dec 04, 2013
" Even Aristotle, probably the most influential of all thinkers, argued that humans were superior to other animals due to our exclusive ability to reason,"

Because he wasn't an idiot. Unlike whoever released this.

"It sounds like PETA propaganda."
It sound even worse than that. This his the most rabid zoophiliac nonsense I've ever read... They're not less intelligent, but "different" because they can smell stuff we can't make over 20 different sounds. Jesus. Are we in the 21st century? It feels like ancient times...
Eikka
2.6 / 5 (25) Dec 04, 2013
Well, the question is easily answered: find out what animals do do that we don't, and then see if any of that approaches anything we do in complexity.

The problem is that we do pretty much everything animals do, often better than animals do by proxy of our devices, which other animals don't do. A little shrimp can make sense of polarized light with its special eyes - well, we can make ourselves some special eyes and see the same thing.

Humans, with their limited sense of smell, can't even gauge the complexity of messages contained in olfactory markings, which may be as rich in information as the visual world," he says.


Human olfactory senses are often very underrated. It's more a matter of training than ability, because although the signal is weaker, we can still differentiate smells. Ask any wine taster.
Telekinetic
1.5 / 5 (34) Dec 04, 2013
If animals were given complete control of the earth, it would become smog and toxin-free, while genocide would become a thing of the past. We humans have used the earth like a latrine, and compared to animals, are far more deadly. The disrespect for animals and environment go hand-in-hand with right-wing nincompoop ideology. The sheer ego to not even consider animals, like dolphins, to be on par with humans is another indication of a severe failing of reflection. You little men, not even brave enough to recognize yourself as an animal, puff yourselves up to ward off the threat of being equal, just like an animal would.
Telekinetic
1.5 / 5 (30) Dec 04, 2013
"Human olfactory senses are often very underrated. It's more a matter of training than ability, because although the signal is weaker, we can still differentiate smells. Ask any wine taster."

Dogs can sniff out cancer lurking in a person's breath. Which is more useful, a medical miracle or an oenophile's subjective opinion? Also, only humans are smug.
RobertKarlStonjek
2.6 / 5 (23) Dec 04, 2013
We count 'intelligence' as a function of the brain. Humans have bigger brains with greater capacity and diversity of function than other animals, so by that measure humans are way ahead.

We do not question that an animal that has bigger or firmer muscles is stronger than humans, so why would we question the bigger stronger and more diverse brain?

The question being considered above is really one of whether greater intelligence actually makes one animal better than another. Being more intelligent due to more elaborate brain does not necessary imply superiority.
Telekinetic
1.9 / 5 (21) Dec 04, 2013
""The fact that they may not understand us, while we do not understand them, does not mean our 'intelligences' are at different levels, they are just of different kinds."- from the article

"The question being considered above is really one of whether greater intelligence actually makes one animal better than another."- RobertKarlStonjek

Not quite how the question is being considered in the article.
Telekinetic
1.4 / 5 (20) Dec 04, 2013

x
- orti

Is that how you sign your name?
Humpty
1.9 / 5 (21) Dec 04, 2013
WE are the same LIFE that is on this planet.

We are the ONE life that is on this planet.

Lost. Alone. In the pitch dark of celestial space - at just the right distance from a single sun, for us to remain alive.
nevermark
2.7 / 5 (32) Dec 04, 2013
Individuals humans are borderline sentient biologically:

1) Most intelligence (99%+) is cultural, not neurological. We learn from others by example or education. It took thousands of years to understand base 10, zero, and negative numbers, but those concepts allows us to instantly solve problems that would otherwise be head pounders. Modern culture has accumulated vast numbers of concepts that amplify our biological IQ.

2) Humans started developing technology once a tiny fraction of us became smart enough to invent. Then technology accelerated, while our biology has hardly changed. Most people cannot solve problems beyond the kind they have been trained to solve. Again, culture provides logic, science, project organization, etc., giving each us an effective intelligence far beyond innate intelligence.

We are quite intelligent as a species in groups, but little different from other smart animals as untaught individuals, except for a tiny percentage of novelty capable thinkers.
nevermark
2.3 / 5 (19) Dec 04, 2013
One of the most valuable skills our culture has accumulated is meta-thinking. People are far more self-aware, as a result of accumulating meta-thinking behavior and language, than we were biologically before words for concepts about thought and abstractions were codified so they could be passed on.

So even self-awareness, our most prized property as intelligent beings, is culturally amplified vs. our biological baseline of a pre-cultural "natural" human.
stefanoaz
2.3 / 5 (14) Dec 04, 2013
The article is qualitative at best, but the authors almost stumbled into a clue that might have led to deeper insight, when they mentioned the agricultural revolution. It turns out that brains are metabolically expensive - enough so that one particular human invention created a distinct difference between humans and even their primate kin. A quantitative difference. See http://www.ted.co...ain.html
semmsterr
2.9 / 5 (18) Dec 04, 2013
Are we saying that but for opposable thumbs, a dog would've figured out the theory of relativity instead of a man?
DonGateley
2.6 / 5 (22) Dec 04, 2013
Complete and total nonsense. Balderdash, in other words. I can't believe this was printed anywhere much less here.
twasnow
2.5 / 5 (21) Dec 05, 2013
who ever wrote this crap should be fired, for being so foolish. Who ever published it on phy.org, hurt my view of phys.org, much more crap like this and I won't being comehing to this site any longer.
dan42day
2.4 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
I have often suspected this to be true, especially in the morning when I leave for work and my cat hops up on the couch and goes back to sleep.
thatsitalright
2 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
There's been a few turds like this shown up on physorg lately. And to the left-wing / right wing spinners, Ha ha. Yes, indeed.
ShotmanMaslo
2.4 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
I can agree that we often underestimate the intelligence of animals and in some areas (reaction times, smell..) they can certainly be more capable than humans. But come on, they are not smarter, usualy..
obama_socks
1.8 / 5 (20) Dec 05, 2013
Well, of course animals are intelligent, but their intelligence is proportionate only to the degree where it enables them to survive and reproduce according to the abilities built into their specie.

They also have a "pecking order" when in a pack or herd and the more aggressive and usually smarter one gets to be the leader. Humans have that too. It's called...politics.
mayan
1.2 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
r they Professors? Do they Know Souls interchange from animal to Human during rebirths,
Many Living beings communicate with souls ...

DONT deny this I have witnessed these, I witnessed many gurus who can alter the FABRIC of SPACE and TIME ...

I witnessed Apsaras, Yakshinis , ghosts, etc etc ....
zaxxon451
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 05, 2013
Are we saying that but for opposable thumbs, a dog would've figured out the theory of relativity instead of a man?


A dog is as close to figuring out Reality as we are. All theories are eventually found lacking. Even Relativity is cracking with each announcement that gravitational waves are still nowhere to be found.
alfie_null
4.4 / 5 (8) Dec 05, 2013
Define "intelligence".

This is sort of like the problem I have with IQ measurements. An attempt to distill all the functions we observe in brains (of people and other animals) into a single value.

I suspect for some, the definition is something along the lines of "what makes us human". It's stupid circular logic, but maybe rationality isn't something our brains are good at. Thus the strongly critical responses. Maybe the authors should use a phrase that carries less emotional baggage, like "mind function".
_ilbud
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 05, 2013
Obviously in Australia what they say is true.
Akhenaten
2.1 / 5 (18) Dec 05, 2013
Humans are the only species on this planet- and, as far as we know for now, on any other -which possesses the potentiality of dispersing out into the wider Universe by their own efforts.
This, coupled with our ability to become conscious of our Universe via Science,
Mathematics, and Technology give us a unique place in an Embryonic Universe. Mind is indeed a new cosmic phase in Evolution, and has a procreative role.

Animals undoubtedly have greater abilities than we have hitherto suspected, and deserve kindness and consideration from us, but in our role as potential bearers of Life and Mind we have an absolutely clear place; viz. Create a Cosmic Diaspora, or prove ourselves truly inferior to the Animal Kingdom,

We have a transcendent job to do- and if we can not or will not do it, our extinction will be well-earned!
"Earth is the Cradle of Mind- but One does not Liove in the Cradle forever"- K.E./Tsiolkovski
arq
2.3 / 5 (18) Dec 05, 2013
They might not be smarter than us, but i feel they can live without us better than we can live without them.
PoppaJ
2.8 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
This whole report is absurd. Animal intelligence is not superior. They have never been proven to be more intelligent. All "evidence" indicating they are, is written addressing singular aspects of an animals specialization. specialized systems that create a benefit to a specific behavior is not a comparable intelligence. Rather it comes with huge intellectual deficiencies in other areas that would normally be indicated as part of intelligence. Intelligence is an indication of the whole not the bits and pieces.
QuixoteJ
2.3 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
The article is qualitative at best, but the authors almost stumbled into a clue that might have led to deeper insight, when they mentioned the agricultural revolution. It turns out that brains are metabolically expensive - enough so that one particular human invention created a distinct difference between humans and even their primate kin.
Agreed. And the actual invention (engineering) that started it all: the plow.
mzso
1.7 / 5 (18) Dec 05, 2013
What's the saddest about it all is that how many fools pop-up even here a science site who believe this sort of shallow PETA/primitivist/liberal/zoophiliac nonsense.
triplehelix
2.4 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
So...Change the definition of intelligence, and what it means and contains, and animals become just as smart?

Hell let's change the definition of height, and measure it in certain ways so that we're all nice 6ft strapping species.

Sorry, maybe I missed the point or didn't understand, but you can't just change a definition and make something that isn't something.

E.g.

"Some mammals, like gibbons, can produce a large number of varied sounds – over 20 different sounds with clearly different meanings that allow these arboreal primates to communicate across tropical forest canopy. The fact that they do not build houses is irrelevant to the gibbons."

Amoeba's can use chemception to identify each other and warn of scarce food resources. The fact they do not have 20 different sounds to do that is irrelevant to the amoeba's.

See, using the same argument, I have just made a single cell organism AS intelligent as a Gibbon - APPARENTLY.

This is just terrible science.
Rdavid
1.8 / 5 (13) Dec 05, 2013
Like a dog fart, I must have missed something here. Humans are animals.
Telekinetic
1.9 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
who ever wrote this crap should be fired, for being so foolish. Who ever published it on phy.org, hurt my view of phys.org, much more crap like this and I won't being comehing to this site any longer.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out...
Telekinetic
1.5 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
What's the saddest about it all is that how many fools pop-up even here a science site who believe this sort of shallow PETA/primitivist/liberal/zoophiliac nonsense.

Notice the credentials of the person making these "shallow" claims.And your credentials, mzso?-
"For millennia, all kinds of authorities – from religion to eminent scholars – have been repeating the same idea ad nauseam, that humans are exceptional by virtue that they are the smartest in the animal kingdom," says Dr Arthur Saniotis, Visiting Research Fellow with the University's School of Medical Sciences.

Guy_Underbridge
3.6 / 5 (5) Dec 05, 2013
Only a progressive... don't vote for Obama. (freethinking)


Here's proof. Many types of parrots can say more than one thing.
mzso
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 05, 2013
Notice the credentials of the person making these "shallow" claims.And your credentials, mzso?-


This is a foolish argument, I see it all the time by people who have zero rational arguments on their side. Not surprising. You already proved yourself the most deluded, braindead person in this comments section.

Just to spell it out: credentials don't make something stupid real. It does make the person who releases things like this a foolish, delusional crackpot.
Forestgnome
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 05, 2013
Actually, animals are considerably more intelligent than humans. They had the ability to deduce the deteriorating effect advanced civilization would have on the brain and made a decision to avoid it in the first place.
Modernmystic
1.8 / 5 (15) Dec 05, 2013
This researcher is, in every case I saw in the article, is referring to superior senses or physical abilities. It's a non-sequitur with respect to the common understanding of intelligence.

Kinaesthetic intelligence? Really? We used to call that "having good coordination and strength"....

This is not to say that I believe animals (especially the great apes, dolphins, wales) have been given full credit for their mental faculties...but human beings absolutely operate in a vastly more complex order of mental states and capacity. That's a fact, not an opinion.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (9) Dec 05, 2013
Michael, a gorilla... can give testimony valid in a court, but he has no rights in the human world
Goodall showed us that apes are compulsive liars and scatologists. Further their swearing on a bible would be meaningless.

The other animals are motivated by the same things we are; survival to reproduce. Aspects can become very complex and abstract. But in the tribal domain, natural proclivities were suppressed for the good of the tribe.

This domestication produces some very bizzare distortions and compensations indeed. For instance gaydom serves to expend the reproductive urge, and as such was selected for as a recurring response to perceived overpopulation.

Agriculture meant that a small number of people could support a large population, leaving a large segment with no justification for their existence beyond fighting over reproductive rights. So entertainment, politics, religion, war, and other deceptions were invented.
freethinking
2.2 / 5 (22) Dec 05, 2013
ARRRGGGG.....I was wondering why this was such a stupid article. triplehelix reminded me, why a progressive would write something this stupid so seriously.
Progressives keep changing definitions.
Racist, anyone who disagrees with Obama or a Progressive
Homophob, anyone who disagrees with giving special rights to those that practice abnormal sex
Fanatic, anyone who disagrees with Obama or a Progressive
liar, anyone who disagrees with Obama or a Progressive
denier, anyone who doesn't want to pay taxes to Al Gore

And the list goes on.....

Hey anyone want to help me come up with a definitive list of Progressive words and what they really mean, PM me and lets see if we can do it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.1 / 5 (9) Dec 05, 2013
" Even Aristotle, probably the most influential of all thinkers, argued that humans were superior to other animals due to our exclusive ability to reason,"

Because he wasn't an idiot
Humans and other domesticated animals have had the ability to reason bred and educated out of them. By late adolescence they can easily be convinced to surrender reproductive rights, adopt a religion, fight in wars against people who are not their natural enemies, work in mind-numbing jobs they hate, wear funny-looking clothes just because they're fashionable, etc. Dogs will do backflips for biscuits. Neither is reasonable.
Telekinetic
1.7 / 5 (17) Dec 05, 2013
Notice the credentials of the person making these "shallow" claims.And your credentials, mzso?-


This is a foolish argument, I see it all the time by people who have zero rational arguments on their side. Not surprising. You already proved yourself the most deluded, braindead person in this comments section.

Just to spell it out: credentials don't make something stupid real. It does make the person who releases things like this a foolish, delusional crackpot.

It just makes it more likely that YOU'RE the uneducated crackpot.
EnricM
1 / 5 (12) Dec 05, 2013
Only a progressive or an extremely shielded form the real world person would ever make the statement "When a foreigner tries to communicate with us using an imperfect, broken, version of our language, our impression is that they are not very intelligent."

Perhaps because I'm not a progressive or that I have real world experience, I know right from the get go that someone who cannot speak a language very well doesn't mean they are not intelligent.

But that said, I will agree that animals are smarter than progressives. Animals don't vote for Obama.


Neither Europeans do, ergo: We are all extremely intelligent in our good old continent
Modernmystic
1.6 / 5 (13) Dec 05, 2013
So entertainment, politics, religion, war, and other deceptions were invented.


I'd disagree slightly. I'd say all those things were invented so we could form larger and larger conglomerates. Once you get past about 100 individuals you can't possibly "know everybody" so you have to make up rules, culture, and other things in order to insure cohesion.

Neither Europeans do, ergo: We are all extremely intelligent in our good old continent


Mmmm...either that or you're far more likely to encounter people from other cultures than an American, and thus just have more experience with it.
Protoplasmix
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 05, 2013
Humans are the only species on this planet- and, as far as we know for now, on any other -which possesses the potentiality of dispersing out into the wider Universe by their own efforts.

Not true, regarding potential. There are species of spiders, mites and caterpillars, along with their respective microbiomes, that have likely been doing it for eons using their silk – it facilitates ejection, propulsion, radiation shielding and reentry.
Telekinetic
1.7 / 5 (18) Dec 05, 2013
"This whole report is absurd. Animal intelligence is not superior. They have never been proven to be more intelligent."- PoppaJ

If you had really read the piece instead of reacting to it first, the article doesn't make assertions of superior intelligence at all. You've only proven what I've said earlier- humans are threatened by equality, which allows for the mistreatment of other humans as well as animals.

Modernmystic
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 05, 2013
If you had really read the piece instead of reacting to it first, the article doesn't make assertions of superior intelligence at all. You've only proven what I've said earlier- humans are threatened by equality,


Either that or irritated by blatantly absurd pseudoscience.

which allows for the mistreatment of other humans as well as animals.


It does no such thing. It may make it easier for some humans to rationalize it. I can assure you I don't think my dog is anywhere near my intellectual level but she's treated like a member of the family. My feelings for her are in no way connected to how smart I think she is.
Noumenon
2 / 5 (21) Dec 05, 2013
The sheer ego to not even consider animals, like dolphins, to be on par with humans is another indication of a severe failing of reflection


The vast majority of idiot liberals who suffer from PETA'esque syndrome and think there should be animal / human right equalities,... also readily advocate abortion of humans, and late term.

This article does more to expose extreme liberalism for what it is than elucidate anything new about animals. Read up on Cass Sunstein, and leftist dolt who actually wants animals via uuman proxies to have the right to flood the court system with law suites. He also wrote a book called "nudge" that describes how to control the masses.
micahscopes
1.6 / 5 (13) Dec 05, 2013
The ignorance and fear in some of these comments looks a lot like supporting evidence :)
Telekinetic
1.5 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
@Noumenon:
I can't fault you for your low brow opinions because you're only a product of your fearful upbringing by a disciplinarian father who didn't believe in sparing the rod. Don't want to disagree with his type unless you want the belt. I'm sure I'm warm. Also, the late term abortion- is that because it's against your religion? I thought this was a science site- not some evangelical hootenanny. No, Noumenon, you're all mixed up. This article is about the ongoing discoveries made by real scientists who CAN separate facts from their belief systems.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
What is Obama's definition of a lie?

http://www.boston...ory.html

Woops, now according to Progressives I'm a racists as I pointed out that King Almighty Obama lies.
Telekinetic
1.5 / 5 (15) Dec 05, 2013
What is Obama's definition of a lie?

http://www.boston...ory.html

Woops, now according to Progressives I'm a racists as I pointed out that King Almighty Obama lies.

Did you know that your Lord and Master George W. Bush had been a cocaine user which he never admitted to the American public?
obama_socks
1.5 / 5 (17) Dec 05, 2013
@Noumenon:
I can't fault you for your low brow opinions because you're only a product of your fearful upbringing by a disciplinarian father who didn't believe in sparing the rod. Don't want to disagree with his type unless you want the belt. I'm sure I'm warm. Also, the late term abortion- is that because it's against your religion? I thought this was a science site- not some evangelical hootenanny. No, Noumenon, you're all mixed up. This article is about the ongoing discoveries made by real scientists who CAN separate facts from their belief systems.
- Telekinetic -

There is nothing wrong with a proper amount of discipline, first off. Without discipline and learning self-discipline, you have unreasonable defiance against authority and the law.

Late-term abortion is murder, and there is no justified reason for committing such murder - even for the sake of convenience when abortion is available within the first trimester of a pregnancy. Religion is not the issue at all.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 05, 2013
There is nothing wrong with a proper amount of discipline, first off. Without discipline and learning self-discipline, you have unreasonable defiance against authority and the law
Easy to say isnt it pussytard. But you cannot help but post outrageous lies and ignorance in flood after flood. Per my profile page.
and there is no justified reason for committing such murder - even for the sake of convenience
-And how would you classify the 6 'miscarriages' you 'endured'? Were they convenience or merely acts of god?
obama_socks
1.4 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
Did you know that your Lord and Master George W. Bush had been a cocaine user which he never admitted to the American public?
- Telekinetic -

And BHObama used cocaine and weed with his CHOOM GANG. Since you mentioned illegal drugs anyway, let me explain something to you.

If it wasn't for the fools who use illegal drugs, the drug cartels would not have become rich men who kidnap and kill innocent people as much as their rivals. They have become rich by providing hard drugs to the idiots who think they are cool when they get high and who will do anything for a hit. Even kill someone for the money to buy their drugs. Unless these fools are rich themselves, they will starve their children and make them homeless just to get that feeling of euphoria and whatever else they feel. But when they crash, they bitch and complain about the rich 1% and how they are poor and dependent on the government to support their habit, i.e., welfare checks or robbing old people.
Animals are smarter.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (9) Dec 05, 2013
Ahhahaa tk you always crack me up.
If you had really read the piece instead of reacting to it first, the article doesn't make assertions of superior intelligence at all
What the article really said was:

"Humans have been deceiving themselves for thousands of years that they're smarter than the rest of the animal kingdom, despite growing evidence to the contrary"

"However, science tells us that animals can have cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings."

-Per wiki:
"cognition is closely related to abstract concepts such as mind, intelligence. It encompasses the mental functions, mental processes (thoughts)..."

-Next time read the article.
they will starve their children and make them homeless just to get that feeling of euphoria and whatever else they feel
-So does this at all explain the hours you spend reading the nonsense you write here pussytard? Is euphoria what motivates you? Does your family and your health suffer for this addiction of yours?
Protoplasmix
1.3 / 5 (12) Dec 05, 2013
@freethinking--
One group is focused on solving difficult problems by including everyone and using collaboration. They recognize that when fertilizer is stored in a few huge piles – it reeks. But when it is evenly distributed – everything grows.

The other group advocates unbridled competition, believing that only the fiscally fit are worthy to survive. They think that the fertilizer is the be-all-and-end-all, and that it's meant to be horded into piles and used as a tool to control everything.

One group is destined to become obsolete, trapped by its own tenaciously authoritative conservatism. They cannot keep pace with the progress of a global social enlightenment that is being brought about by technological advancements, not the least of those being the ability to communicate profusely en masse.

@ O-socks- You really need to learn a few things about neurotransmitters before spouting-off about 'illegal drugs'.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (20) Dec 05, 2013
tel,

So now it's back to blame bush..... OK I'll help the Progressives
It's Bush's fault that Obama lied about people keeping their healthcare
It's Bush's fault that Obama lied about using the IRS to go after Obama's enemies.
It's Bush's fault that Obama lied about using the DOJ to go after reporters who investigated Obama's scandals,
It's Bush's fault that Obama lied about Fast and Furious
It's Bush's fault that Obama lied about Benghazi.
It's Bush's fault that Obama blamed Benghazi on a film that no one saw.
It's Bush's fault that Obama lied about writing books.
It's Bush's fault that Obama lied about hearing Rev. Write
It's Bush's fault that Obama lied about his website being functional.
It's Bush's fault that Obama is a radical, progressive, lying, corrupt President.

Anymore lies Obama said that we should blame Bush for?
freethinking
1.2 / 5 (20) Dec 05, 2013
Proto,

Progressives SAY (lie) that they include everyone. Truth is, if you disagree with them they will, just like Obama does, try and destroy you.

Progressives SAY (lie) that they want to make lives better. Truth is, when in power they are the most corrupt and destructive government and people lives are destroyed.

List of Great Progressives that Prove this point.
Obama, Hitler, Stalin, Sanger, Mao, Hugo Chávez and the list goes on and on.
Telekinetic
1.5 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013

"However, science tells us that animals can have cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings."

-Per wiki:
"cognition is closely related to abstract concepts such as mind, intelligence. It encompasses the mental functions, mental processes (thoughts)..."- G. of O.

Even though the article states that animals do have cognitive abilities superior to humans, the same can be said in reverse. The point they're making in the article is that humans have made erroneous assumptions of human superiority over animals and cite animals' cognitive superiority to counter those assumptions- not to make a case for animal superiority. Wiki is always a poor reference because even you could contribute. You can rest assured that I consider you to be equal to any animal out there- a jackass, if you'd like.
obama_socks
1.3 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
LOL...I see that Theghostofotto1923 still has the hots for Pussycat_Eyes and is still under the delusion that I am his "pussytard".

Nope, I am STILL not your pussytard and never was. My penis and testicles and my ability to get women pregnant with my sperm testifies to that.
Theghostofotto1923 aka FrankHerbert and other suckpuppets (see my profile for Otto's other alter egos/demons) is suffering from DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY DISORDER and other psychological and brain diseases.

Go take your meds, Otto...you are a very sick person. And I am still waiting for your proof and the link where I ever said anything about seeing 800 foot invisible martians or lead boomerangs. You're a liar and you have no business commenting on this Physorg because you and your suckpuppets tell lies about other commenters.
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
This article is about the ongoing discoveries made by real scientists who CAN separate facts from their belief systems.


As pointed out by GhostofOtto, it appears that you didn't even read the article yourself. Just because a "study" is presented as science, does not automatically make worth fu'k. Phys.Org constantly floods this site with leftist political propaganda masquerading as scientific "studies". You're just too naive to tell the difference.

Also, i'm not a believer in god. My only basis for being against terminating human life at its start, is a respect for human life. Thanks for validating my point, that half-wit liberals think animal rights are more important than human life.
freethinking
1.4 / 5 (21) Dec 05, 2013
Wait a sec, Perhaps I was wrong.... Obama isn't liar, he is just the most uninformed President ever.
http://www.thebla...s-uncle/

Obama was uninformed about his uncle, fast and furious, Benghazi, Obamacare causing people to lose health insurance, IRS going after his enemies, DOJ going after anyone who questioned him, etc, etc

Progressives, or anyone can you please answer the question, is Obama the
1) Liar in thief
2) Party'er and thief
3)Ignorant and thief
or
4) like the author that animals are as smart as Progressives, Stupid and Thief?

Thanks
obama_socks
1.2 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
[qOne group is destined to become obsolete, trapped by its own tenaciously authoritative conservatism. They cannot keep pace with the progress of a global social enlightenment that is being brought about by technological advancements, not the least of those being the ability to communicate profusely en masse.

@ O-socks- You really need to learn a few things about neurotransmitters before spouting-off about 'illegal drugs'. - protoplasmix -

You say "global social enlightenment" but what you're really saying is GLOBAL SOCIAL ENGINEERING. This is much different from enlightenment in that the only progress that is occurring is the "progress" that is taking hold of the human race (specifically in the Western world) by Socialists aka Neo-Communists, whether by subtlety or by direct coercion or force. At this point, it is a subtle form of coercion that is aided and abetted by promises that are not kept, and lies that are told to keep certain segments loyal to their future masters.
obama_socks
1.4 / 5 (19) Dec 05, 2013
contd
In effect, your fantasy of GLOBAL SOCIAL ENLIGHTENMENT is meant to remove the God-given freedoms from each individual and replace those rights and freedoms with the yoke of slavery of the masses by the tyrants that you fervently support and worship.
BHObama is only the delivery boy who is attempting to get his foot in the door for the purpose of "fundamentally transforming America". His wife, Michelle has said that we have to change our culture and traditions, presumably to enable the tyrannical order that is to dominate the free world.

I assume you love tyranny and a future enslavement of Americans. Please enlighten me if I have misinterpreted your meaning.

As to illegal drugs and neurotransmitters, I am only concerned with the results of ruined lives and dead people that are due to the idiots who are willing to murder and destroy others only because of their need for illegal self-gratification.
obama_socks
1.2 / 5 (18) Dec 05, 2013
contd
In effect, your fantasy of GLOBAL SOCIAL ENLIGHTENMENT is meant to remove the God-given freedoms from each individual and replace those rights and freedoms with the yoke of slavery of the masses by the tyrants that you fervently support and worship.
BHObama is only the delivery boy who is attempting to get his foot in the door for the purpose of "fundamentally transforming America". His wife, Michelle has said that we have to change our culture and traditions, presumably, to enable the tyrannical order that is to dominate the free world.

I assume you love tyranny and a future enslavement of Americans. Please enlighten me if I have misinterpreted your meaning.

As for illegal drugs and neurotransmitters, I am only concerned with the results of the use of such illegal drugs where innocents are murdered and lives destroyed, all for the illegal purpose of self-gratification.
obama_socks
1.3 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
sorry for the double post...slow connection today
Telekinetic
1.7 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
"List of Great Progressives that Prove this point.
Obama, Hitler, Stalin, Sanger, Mao, Hugo Chávez and the list goes on and on"- freethinking

You're incredibly stupid, freethinking, as you spit on the graves of those who fought and died to defeat Hitler and gave us the privilege to elect a president of any race, instead of being under the thumb of an Aryan ruler. Dumb, historically inaccurate punks like you make me puke.

kochevnik
1.7 / 5 (11) Dec 05, 2013
According to freeOfThinking, humans is da "most smartest"
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 05, 2013
The point they're making in the article is that humans have made erroneous assumptions of human superiority over animals and cite animals' cognitive superiority to counter those assumptions- not to make a case for animal superiority
Ahaahaaaaa per the article

""However, science tells us that animals can have cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings."

heehee hey nou he still hasnt read it-
BHObama is only the delivery boy
-Boy?? See like everybody says, you ARE s stinking racist.
obama_socks
1.3 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
@Kochevnik
Did you see my query in the other thread asking you whose side Russia will be on? China OR Japan, South Korea and the U.S. regarding China's demands that any aircraft or ship not belonging to China that flies in the area of the Senkaku Islands MUST provide a flight plan and other information or face consequences re the Chinese military?

What is your opinion?
Telekinetic
1.8 / 5 (15) Dec 05, 2013
The point they're making in the article is that humans have made erroneous assumptions of human superiority over animals and cite animals' cognitive superiority to counter those assumptions- not to make a case for animal superiority ]Ahaahaaaaa per the article

""However, science tells us that animals can have cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings."

"heehee hey nou he still hasnt read it"- G of O
.
And you still haven't COMPREHENDED my response, ritalin-boy.
obama_socks
1.3 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
Which brings me around to the difference between domesticated animals such as dogs and cats, and UNdomesticated animals who roam free and have to find their own food through their own efforts. Whereas dogs and cats, etc. as pets are fed, pampered, and taken care of by humans and don't have to work for their food and upkeep (except in the case of herding dogs, police K-9 dogs, sled dogs and seeing-eye dogs), a parallel can be drawn between dogs and cats who are kept as pets, and humans who are perennially on welfare checks and other social programs where these economic Vampires bleed other humans of their earned income through mandatory taxes.

Then, there are the other animals who are self-supporting, independent and survive through their own efforts...similar to humans of the Conservative, Tea Party and Libertarian persuasion - those hard-working, taxpaying, responsible and caring individuals who are put upon by the Econ Vampires who love their Liberal Congressmen.
obama_socks
1.3 / 5 (16) Dec 05, 2013
@Telekinetic

ritalin-boy
LOL...you called Theghostofotto1923 a "BOY"
heeheehee
I'm giving you a FIVE for that, and you know that I don't often vote FIVE because my 5 most often gets diluted to a lower number by Ghostofotto's suckpuppets and his supporters voting ONEs. If you see my name, know that I gave you the FIVE you so deserved.
m_(@L@_m

But I have to make an exception this time because the "boy" remark is soooooo appropriate.
Protoplasmix
1.6 / 5 (13) Dec 05, 2013
O-socks: One of us is looking forward while clamoring atop the shoulders of giants for a better view, and the other is facing the opposite direction, blocking the view, while on a soap box spouting old, box-shaped, pre-labeled, fear-mongering, stereotypical, prejudicial thinking.
rkolter
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 05, 2013
We may not be able to generate or recognize olfactory cues, but we can recognize that others can and we can recognize what those cues are and how they are developed. Yes, a dog can communicate its needs and can manipulate us. But so can a six month old baby. Gibbons can produce twenty sounds that can be heard in treetops. Humans can produce significantly more than twenty sounds; we have tens of thousands of such calls - each a word - each with at least one and often multiple meanings.

Intelligence is not a uniquely human attribute. However, intelligence was more useful to our survival and was strongly selected for. We are the most intelligent. Or, at the very least, we have the most capacity for intelligence and intellectual growth.
nymuseum
1.6 / 5 (13) Dec 06, 2013
Idiot headline. Since when are humans not animals?
Modernmystic
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 06, 2013
However, science tells us that animals can have cognitive faculties that are superior to human beings.


But they don't have COGNITIVE faculties that are superior to human beings. The article provides zero evidence for that, moreover if you read it carefully it doesn't even give any supporting assertions much less evidence to support that claim.

EVERY single assertion in that article is about superior senses, musculature, or coordination. None of which has anything to do with cognition. It's like saying chimp has superior cognitive abilities than humans because it's 8 times stronger.

It is because our cognition is in fact superior to any other animal that humans are the fastest "runners" (vehicles), fliers (jets), lifters (hydraulics), builders, and we can augment our senses beyond any animal on the planet with technology. We can see planets around other stars. It's not a contest, no more than it's a contest to win an arm wrestling match with an infant.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (6) Dec 06, 2013
Heehee this is fun. Tk says
And you still haven't COMPREHENDED my response, ritalin-boy
-but forgets he said
not to make a case for animal superiority
-which is what he said. What makes you think the author is talking about any other kind of superiority but cognitive superiority Tk?
But they don't have COGNITIVE faculties that are superior to human beings... Article provides no evidence
Youre right, it seems like more of a gathering of opinions. But you provide no evidence for your opinion either, and since they are pros, and since what they say makes sense, I think they are easier to agree with. Just my opinion .
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 06, 2013
It is because our cognition is in fact superior to any other animal that humans are the fastest "runners" (vehicles), fliers (jets), lifters (hydraulics), builders, and we can augment our senses beyond any animal on the planet with technology.
Have you considered that they haven't developed these abilities because they haven't needed to? That their intelligence in, say, interpreting their environment to their reproductive benefit would be superior without the need to begin building weapons and forts?

Jared diamond spent time living amongst aborigine hunter-gatherers. He found them to be in many ways more intelligent than civilized people, even though their tech consisted of blowguns and knapped stone.

What makes you think that complexity is anything more than an expression of desperation? Why would an octopus need a can opener ?
freethinking
1.2 / 5 (17) Dec 06, 2013
Otto, intelligence is curiosity, looking beyond yourselves and a desire to learn.

Animals don't care about outer space. Animals don't care about curing diseases in others. Animals don't ask the question of why.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Have you considered that they haven't developed these abilities because they haven't needed to?


I wasn't considering anything with respect to how or why they did or didn't need these abilities because that's completely irrelevant to the point I was making.

That their intelligence in, say, interpreting their environment to their reproductive benefit would be superior without the need to begin building weapons and forts?


It hasn't served them better than us in terms of reproductive success. So, empirically no.

Jared diamond spent time living amongst aborigine hunter-gatherers. He found them to be in many ways more intelligent than civilized people, even though their tech consisted of blowguns and knapped stone.


I've seen his documentary, and read the book. He makes compelling points. None of which speaks to animal intelligence.

What makes you think that complexity is anything more than an expression of desperation?


How do you know what I think?
kochevnik
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 06, 2013
Otto, intelligence is curiosity, looking beyond yourselves and a desire to learn.

Animals don't care about outer space. Animals don't care about curing diseases in others. Animals don't ask the question of why.
Purposeful animals such as service dogs can become confused and ask for help. You may not understand their question, but that is YOUR limitation

Animals have been in space. I guess they cared VERY MUCH about it
Idiot headline. Since when are humans not animals?
Since they stopped preying for food, and preyed only on each other
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Purposeful animals such as service dogs can become confused and ask for help. You may not understand their question, but that is YOUR limitation


No, it's a mutual limitation. They can't adequately empress themselves as much as we are limited in our understanding of such expression.

Animals have been in space. I guess they cared VERY MUCH about it


Which ones (you not limited enough to understand) told you that?
goracle
2.3 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
"List of Great Progressives that Prove this point.
Obama, Hitler, Stalin, Sanger, Mao, Hugo Chávez and the list goes on and on"- freethinking

You're incredibly stupid, freethinking, as you spit on the graves of those who fought and died to defeat Hitler and gave us the privilege to elect a president of any race, instead of being under the thumb of an Aryan ruler. Dumb, historically inaccurate punks like you make me puke.


Indeed. Hitler was so liberal and progressive he claimed to be doing 'God's work', kept women breeding, and sent homosexuals to prison. Only 'progressive' to a twisted mind.
goracle
2 / 5 (11) Dec 06, 2013
How do you know what I think?


How do you know what you think? Skippy, would you answer a question of me? What is the difference between a modern type mystic and an old timey mystic?

My guess is that the old timey mystics appear only in grayscale, live in log cabins and are, of course, unplugged. They may also be coffee-stained and dog-eared.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (7) Dec 06, 2013
Otto, intelligence is curiosity, looking beyond yourselves and a desire to learn.

Animals don't care about outer space. Animals don't care about curing diseases in others. Animals don't ask the question of why.
Ahaahaaa 1) How would you know and 2) You religionists didnt care about outer space and the real cause of diseases, and killed anyone who had the audacity to actually look. Burned them, gutted them, drowned them, tortured them to death. Like for instance giordano bruno.

I guess what youre saying is that religionists are the most ignorant of us all. Dumber than most animals anyway. What animal would pray when it was in trouble rather than look around for a way out?

Ahaahaaaaa
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 06, 2013
I wasn't considering anything with respect to how or why they did or didn't need these abilities because that's completely irrelevant to the point I was making
Of course it is. Why do you think animals should waste their time writing books and praying to voodoo gods if they dont have to? Wasting time is a sign of substandard intelligence.

Apes that are taught to sign do not retain that ability without constant prompting. They simply dont need to sign to communicate with their own kind.
It hasn't served them better than us in terms of reproductive success. So, empirically no
What animals have died out because they werent able to reproduce? So empirically, yes. From their perspective humans could be regarded as a plague against which they have no natural defense. Humans themselves could be extincted by such a plague. To think that animals need to develop nukes and bioweapons or any other effective tech to defend themselves from humans is ludicrous.
Ens
1 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Inventor's minds is what makes us superior to other species. When a dog invents something useful we'll talk.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 06, 2013
I've seen his documentary, and read the book. He makes compelling points. None of which speaks to animal intelligence
We ARE animals. Those of us who live closer to the natural state use much less technology. We are finding that this usage converges with the tech that apes employ. And they simply do not need to build huts do they?
How do you know what I think?
Uh thats why I asked?
They can't adequately empress themselves
Dogs are domesticated like we are and as such are hobbled in their ability to survive without artificial intervention. Dachshunds and charpees (whatever) would not last long in the wild. And neither would you.

But wolves are fully capable of expressing their needs to each other, in wholly natural ways. And their needs arent anything like 'please let me out or I will crap on your carpet'.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Dec 06, 2013
Inventor's minds is what makes us superior to other species. When a dog invents something useful we'll talk
Dogs were themselves 'invented'. Dogs are capable of all sorts of novel and unique behaviors. Invention is not unique to humans.

"In 1953 a young female Japanese macaque called Imo began washing sweet potatoes before eating them, presumably to remove dirt and sand grains. Soon other monkeys had adopted this behaviour, and potato washing gradually spread throughout the troop. When, three years after her first invention, Imo devised a second novel foraging behaviour, that of separating wheat from sand by throwing mixed handfuls into water and scooping out the floating grains, she was almost instantly heralded around the world as a 'monkey genius'... many animals will invent new behaviour patterns, adjust established behaviours to a novel context, or respond to stresses in an appropriate and novel manner."

-Did Imo need to buy something from Ronco? No.
kochevnik
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 06, 2013
Inventor's minds is what makes us superior to other species. When a dog invents something useful we'll talk.
If anything most humans are violently opposed to invention. Humans are addicted to their neuroses and habits, and change becomes a threat. Look at the West where the solution to every financial problem is to create more debt. It is as if people think it is great to put a gun to their head and pull the trigger, because the bullet has "hello kitty" painted on. And most humans simply copy the human next to them. Entire cultures are based upon waiting for others to invent, then copying. Communist China, for example
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 06, 2013
"...Cro Magnon cave in Dordogne, France, and has since become one of the most famous Upper Palaeolithic skeletons. Using new technology, researchers have produced a replica of the 28,000-year-old brain and found that it is about 15-20% larger than our brains."

-When removed from the rigors of the pleistocene selection process, brains begin to shrink.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Of course it is. Why do you think animals should waste their time writing books and praying to voodoo gods if they dont have to? Wasting time is a sign of substandard intelligence.


I'm not arguing this point with you because it's one I wasn't making to begin with. You may shadow box to your hearts content, but that would be "wasting time".

What animals have died out because they werent able to reproduce? So empirically, yes.


We outnumber all mammals our size on the planet by orders of magnitude, and we take over habitat with impunity, so empirically yes. Nature doesn't care about what your opinion of the species is Otto, just success or failure. Nature is totally amoral.

We ARE animals.


Fair point. I'll clarify. It said nothing about non human intelligence.

Uh thats why I asked?


No you implied it. It's like asking me how often I beat my wife. It's called a complex question;

http://en.wikiped...question

Ludwig99b0
1.3 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Wenn ein Löwe sprechen könnte, wir könnten ihn nicht verstehen.
freethinking
1.2 / 5 (17) Dec 06, 2013
Ok, ok. the scientist who wrote this study meant to say. Animals are smarter than progressives.

See, dogs, cat etc. don't lie, cheat, steal, use hate crime laws
http://www.thebla...ng-turn/
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Dec 06, 2013
We outnumber all mammals our size on the planet by orders of magnitude, and we take over habitat with impunity, so empirically yes.
But the plague bacteria outnumber us by orders of magnitude so by your empirical valuation they are smarter than we are.
Nature doesn't care about what your opinion of the species is Otto, just success or failure. Nature is totally amoral
What makes you think humans are 'successful'? Weve only been here for a million years or so. The shark is far older. Does this mean it is 'smarter' than us?
It's called a complex question
No its called offering a plausible alternative in the form of a question. What makes you think that perhaps humans didnt develop their complex tech in response to a uniquely desperate set of circumstances, and that any other animal would have responded the same way?

If octopi had begun living in tribes and had reproduced at the same rate as us, Do you think they might have made weapons as well?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 06, 2013
Wenn ein Löwe sprechen könnte, wir könnten ihn nicht verstehen.
Dummsten Hunde bissen sich selbst. Thats the only one I know.
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (13) Dec 06, 2013
-When removed from the rigors of the pleistocene selection process, brains begin to shrink.

But what happened to the frontal cortex and forebrain in relative proportion?

And what's continuing to happen, considering the Internet as an extension of the human nervous system?
Bugmenots
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 06, 2013
It sounds like PETA propaganda. Another example of phys.org couching left wing causes in scientific jargon.

Exactly PETA propaganda was what I thought. It might be the case these professors and other biologists and their institutions have tied interests into these causes. If government concedes to them, there would be enormous comitties of "experts" and activists that would define how every businesses, farms and people could care for their animals, ultimately transfering property titles to these activists, while the nominal owners still pay all the costs involved.
goracle
1.9 / 5 (12) Dec 06, 2013
Ok, ok. the scientist who wrote this study meant to say. Animals are smarter than progressives.

See, dogs, cat etc. don't lie, cheat, steal, use hate crime laws
http://www.thebla...ng-turn/

Normal people don't parade their craven obsessions or stupidity with pride. Clearly you are exceptional.
zaxxon451
1.5 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2013
Both humans and dogs mistake the shadows on the cave wall for Reality. Humans get obsessed with running all sorts of tests on the shadows, while dogs don't give a sh*t.
mobrains
1 / 5 (10) Dec 07, 2013
we simply need a smarter being away from the humans and the dogs/ animals to prove that, who acts spectator of the live actions and thinking of both,,, so far have seen man tame almost any of the animals, which century did animals tame man and then stopped to let man give a show. don`t observe the behavior of your pet, compare it with yourselve and think it is research
Modernmystic
1.3 / 5 (12) Dec 07, 2013
But the plague bacteria outnumber us by orders of magnitude so by your empirical valuation they are smarter than we are.


Apples are red and shiny. Oranges are orange and have rough skin...they taste different too.

What makes you think humans are 'successful'?


There are 7 billion of us and no other species on this planet can compete with us at any level...including sharks.

What makes you think that perhaps humans didnt develop their complex tech in response to a uniquely desperate set of circumstances, and that any other animal would have responded the same way?


A complex set of circumstances make me think that. There are a few species that could have taken our track but not many at all. Now what that has to do with my original point I don't know. IOW...SO WHAT?

If octopi had begun living in tribes and had reproduced at the same rate as us, Do you think they might have made weapons as well?


Weapons yes, complex technology no, you need fire.
kochevnik
1.4 / 5 (10) Dec 07, 2013
There are 7 billion of us and no other species on this planet can compete with us at any level...including sharks.
I would like to see you compete with a bear. Rabies is 100% lethal and could be bioengineered to be ubiquitous in the environment. Humans existed in very small groups so that they were forced into incest to exist. For a long time human population on Earth was about 18.000 A cold winter could have made sapiens extinct

Humans tent to live in close, competitive hives called cities where even a minor disturbance will kill most. A simple EMP will destroy the US power grid. With a three day food supply, people will begin preying and eating their pets and each other after a week. Humans are attracted to unsustainable living which makes them easy kill. Other species such as cockroaches have much greater adaptability and survivability
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Dec 07, 2013
And what's continuing to happen, considering the Internet as an extension of the human nervous system?
More efficient at thinking for us. Atrophy will continue. Brain functions assumed by electronics much better suited to their respective tasks.

The brain is an organ forced to perform well beyond its abilities. This was apparent ever since we began writing down the things we couldnt remember. We can design better, and have, and will.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Dec 07, 2013
Humans tent to live in close, competitive hives called cities where even a minor disturbance will kill most. A simple EMP will destroy the russian power grid. With a three day food supply, people will begin preying and eating their pets and each other after a week. Humans are attracted to unsustainable living which makes them easy kill. Other species such as cockroaches have much greater adaptability and survivability.

Just like leningrad.
Protoplasmix
1.6 / 5 (14) Dec 07, 2013
And what's continuing to happen, considering the Internet as an extension of the human nervous system?
More efficient at thinking for us. Atrophy will continue. Brain functions assumed by electronics much better suited to their respective tasks.

The animalistic, hard-wired hind brain has been decreasing in size while the forebrain has been increasing (in relative proportions to the whole brain). The Internet provides a maximally enriched environment, as it pertains to cognition -- which takes place mostly in the frontal cortex. Hence those nerve cells receive a proportional level of stimuli. Use 'em or loose 'em – that's atrophy. Ghost, when you stand on the shoulders of giants, do you squint your eyes and exclaim that you can see or think no farther?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Dec 07, 2013
The Internet provides a maximally enriched environment
Not like the natural, pleistocene world where a mistake meant death. Here it means a bitchslap. Oh dear.
Protoplasmix
1.3 / 5 (13) Dec 07, 2013
The Internet provides a maximally enriched environment
Not like the natural, pleistocene world where a mistake meant death. Here it means a bitchslap. Oh dear.

You're missing the point: we don't need the inherited animalistic traits to survive as much as we used to. No shortage of activity in your amygdala, is there? Fortunately the future is science, which doesn't get settled by bonks on the head or bitchslaps.
kochevnik
1.4 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2013
@Ghost Just like leningrad.
The USA did a study in 1990s which revealed that in a nuclear war, Russia would suffer 2million deaths while USA would suffer 90million. We have deep tunnels with blast doors, and a population spread over the largest country on Earth. Our electronics are designed to withstand EMP attacks where foreseen. So much for your cut'Npaste parody
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Dec 07, 2013
You're missing the point: we don't need the inherited animalistic traits to survive as much as we used to. No shortage of activity in your amygdala, is there? Fortunately the future is science, which doesn't get settled by bonks on the head or bitchslaps.

You're missing the point: we don't need the inherited animalistic traits to survive as much as we used to. No shortage of activity in your amygdala, is there? Fortunately the future is science, which doesn't get settled by bonks on the head
You really think that web surfing stimulates the brain? They said the same thing about TV. Nothing focuses the attention like the growl of a sabertooth or the sound of distant war drums.

The guy with the most subscribers on YouTube is a guy named pewdiepie. Check him out. We will be sub sentient in a few short gens. Weak backs and weak minds.

And komrade - your blast doors are all rusted shut and the rats have eaten all your tang. Prepare to die.
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2013


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/02/20/article-1151283-0395AD5E000005DC-331_468x286.jpg
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2013
^ Not sure why that link's disabled. It's a pic of an artist who works for peanuts.
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2013
You really think that web surfing stimulates the brain?

Absolutely. In fact there are some good arguments out there that the Internet, especially social media, is addictive. It definitely gets the adrenaline going depending on the issue. Also research studies show that the exact same regions of the brain are stimulated in the observer of an activity that are stimulated in the person performing the activity.
Moebius
1 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2013
It's human instinct to resolve ethical conflicts to justify our actions by minimizing those actions as much as possible.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2013
Absolutely. In fact there are some good arguments out there that the Internet, especially social media, is addictive
Addictive doesn't mean stimulating. TV watching is addictive. Drugs are addictive. Porn is addictive. Pewdiepie toilet humor is addictive. Twitter is addictive.

These do nothing to increase your capacity to reason or to innovate or to remember. Quite the opposite - they prevent you from thinking. They cause atrophy.
Ens
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 08, 2013
Reading your posts causes atrophy.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Dec 08, 2013
Reading your posts causes atrophy.
I guess you've been reading them for quite a while then?
Protoplasmix
1.5 / 5 (11) Dec 08, 2013
Addictive doesn't mean stimulating. TV watching is addictive. Drugs are addictive. Porn is addictive. Pewdiepie toilet humor is addictive. Twitter is addictive.

These do nothing to increase your capacity to reason or to innovate or to remember. Quite the opposite - they prevent you from thinking. They cause atrophy.

Ghost, you asked about stimulation, not enrichment—which relates more to individual disposition in an enriched environment. One of us is speaking from the rewarding experience of a maximally enriched environment, and the other is speaking from a bare walled, windowless, darkened room of a closed and atrophied mind. If the Internet is so bad, why are you here wasting your time when you could be out in the elements stalking and wrestling a bear? Or for really honing those cognitive skills, a mountain lion?
Huns
1.7 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2013
This article is a bunch of wishy-washy horse manure. It doesn't belong on phys.org.

Maybe the authors should use a phrase that carries less emotional baggage, like "mind function".

Wherever you set the bar, unless you rig the test, nonhuman animals will lose every single time. Call it mind function or intelligence or just "smarts" - it doesn't matter. Measure the cognitive abilities of any species on Earth and compare it to humans. Who is more capable, the dog that can discern more molecules in its nose or the human that can build a machine that will out-sniff any dog? The author makes the mistake of conflating one superior sense with general superiority, which is cretinous. If you tally the mental capabilities of animals and humans... humans have more. DUH.

Now, if you want to talk about brain capacity vs. environmental challenge, the winners will be things like bacteria, sharks, and cockroaches. Those creatures are at the apex of evolution if that's all we care about.
jdw
1 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2013
So, humans are but animals. True if and only IF we do not possess a soul.

Let's say we don't. Let's say Progressive thinking is correct in expunging religion, God, souls, from our lives. AnimalsRUs.

If..then: We animals have grossly overpopulated this mudball. We've made our pen nassty; we've given control of our destinies over to the craziest of leaders; we believe nonsense preached from pulpits. We're on an unsustainable trajectory.

Obviously, Progressives have believed this for over a century. We soulless animals just need the animal husbandry we provide to lesser animals: eugenics.

We must give complete control of our birthrights, our feeding habits, our energy consumption &c. over to higher-thinking Progressives. Toot suite.

And, as Dr. Pianka so cogently explained, we'd all be better off with fewer humanimals on MomEarth.

So, Progressives, get started. How about a nice overdue cull, beginning right here in the USA?

Warning: those of us with souls *will* try to stop you.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2013
Progressives have believed this for over a century. We soulless animals just need the animal husbandry we provide to lesser animals: eugenics
All religions convince adherents that their god alone is the source of goodness and truth. Further it tells them that people who don't believe in their god CANNOT be good. Crack open your KJV to john 3:18-21 and see what your god thinks of heathens, infidels, goyim.

You religionists have been using this formula for millennia to justify the slaughter of your opponents and anyone else who might get in your way.

As your superstitious bigotry now threatens the entire human race, you won't be allowed to get away with this any more.

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chron 15:12-13)

-You ARE a soulless animal. Your religion makes you evil.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (5) Dec 09, 2013
I would like to see you compete with a bear.


I don't compete with bears, the human species does. Not only that we compete with all bears and we do it so well we're about to wipe a lot of them out with most of us being totally oblivious to the fact that we even ARE in competition with them...

But if you want to put a human being up against a bear then the human will win...unless it's a vampire bear and isn't affected by high velocity lead.

Rabies is 100% lethal...


http://en.wikiped..._vaccine

and could be bioengineered to be ubiquitous in the environment.


Bio-engineered by HUMANS? LOL.

Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2013
I would like to see you compete with a bear

"a bear" <-- my words
"I would like to see you compete with" <-- not my words

MM, if you'd like to make a point about intelligent management of our environment regarding the value of biodiversity, by all means, but please do it without quoting me saying something I didn't. To clarify, I suggested to Ghost that he wrestle a bear, in response to his argument that humans don't learn things unless their life is on the line in the process (brain size decreased since Pleistocene, Internet causes atrophy of the brain, etc.) – a confusing attempt at reductio ad absurdum on my part.

Ghost, you're right about there being a deleterious, animalistic, hind brained imposition on altruistic notions like loving your neighbors and even your enemies. A better bear to wrestle with: bear in mind energy is conserved, and in corporeal form, Ghost, even words are energy – that resonate in neural-networked gray matter.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (5) Dec 09, 2013

MM, if you'd like to make a point about intelligent management of our environment regarding the value of biodiversity, by all means, but please do it without quoting me saying something I didn't.


I wasn't quoting you.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
altruistic notions like loving your neighbors and even your enemies
Well xians stole those notions from earlier religions. Akkadian, buddhist, taoist.
http://etb-biblic...our.html
even words are energy
-And sometimes they are sludge. Sometimes they are murder.

"They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
even words are energy
Sometimes they are lies. Your book is full of them.

"Tel Aviv University archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog:
"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai."

-So how can anything good come from a book full of lies? Your god steals the legends and philosophies of earlier religions and claims they were all his. How can a lying, thieving, bigoted god be anything but evil?
freethinking
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 09, 2013
Otto you keep using the Große Lüge technique. For those that don't understand, The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."

Otto and many other Progressive Atheists on this board, repeat big lies about the Bible, about Christians, they also claim Hitler was a good christian or Catholic (but according to them NOT a socialist..... never mind his party was the National Socialist).
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
Hitler and his handlers BTW liked to bait communists much like you enjoy baiting other posters here at physorg or sciencex or whatever. They chose 'socialist' for that reason, as well as the red fllag which mimicked what the rot front ruffians were carrying. Some think that Nazi was derived from the ashkenazi name.

Whats your problem with hitler being a religionist? Are you thinking that since every OTHER jewish pogrom in history was perpetrated by xians, hitlers kind of absolves the church somehow? Hitler did not invent anti-semitism. He exploited it. Romans invented it and codified it into your religion.

"Several ancient historians report that in 19 CE the Roman emperor Tiberius expelled Jews from Rome."

"When Christianity became the state religion of Rome in the 4th century, Jews became the object of religious intolerance and political oppression. Christian literature began to display extreme hostility towards Jews... resulted in attacks and the burning of synagogues."
Telekinetic
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2013
I'll take a book of lies over your religion, Ghost, which is Nazism. Your psychotic belief in the German High Command borders on deification, so you substituted them for the Christian doctrine which makes one wonder about the impetus of it all. Somewhere in your prolific study of Christianity was once a great respect if not adherence, but someone has let you down hard, like a priest corn-holing you or Mama being wrested from you by a cruel God, so you turned to Hitler and asked that he settle the score by wiping out all traces of religion. You're a forensic psychologist's field day, which is why you would dismiss psychology as if it were more religion, instead of a valuable science of the mind. Everything you write just reveals that you're just a desperate, hate-filled, worthless weakling who would actually be shot by the very people you worship.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
never mind his party was the National Socialist
It wasnt socialist any more than stalins soviet union was socialist. They were both brutal, nationalist, martial law dictatorships. These dictators WERE the state.

Hitler and stalin both set to killing all socialist ideologues as soon as they were able to do so.

And BTW I am neither Progressive or Atheist. The question of god is ludicrous.

"Antireligion is opposition to religion. Antireligion is distinct from atheism (the absence of a belief in deities) and antitheism (an opposition to belief in deities), although antireligionists may be atheists or antitheists. The term may be used to describe opposition to organized religion, or to describe a broader opposition to any form of belief in the supernatural or the divine."
you're just a desperate, hate-filled, worthless weakling who would actually be shot by the very people you worship
Now now little mensch I never said I liked nazis. Post a quote here which says I did.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
I know - youre just bitter because the Site Overlords took away your suckpuppet Sturmtruppen. Es tut mir leid.
freethinking
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2013
Otto you keep insisting on using the Große Lüge technique. People are on to that tactic as shown by the loss of people believing the Main Stream Media.

Why does Otto hate Christians so much? If I had to draw my conclusion it would not be because some Christian hurt him (Otto if I'm wrong let me know), but rather because he is a Progressive. Progressives have an immense ego, have an irrational hatred of the truth, will lie continually as the means justify the outcome, hate anything that denies them what they want or dares say they are wrong.

Again Otto, if I'm wrong and some Christian actually hurt you, PM me privately.
Telekinetic
2 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2013
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 26, 2013
How can I prove that you're a card-carrying Nazi, Ghost? National Socialism = Nazism,yes? So here I quote you from 2012:

"In concert with national socialism it depopulated the continent and ENDED the religious influence on euro politics which had CREATED the chronic conditions of overpopulation and war. It continued throughout Asia, annihilating BOTH nationalist and communist hordes by the millions and replacing the cultures which produced them with a brutal martial law.
Overpop ceased. PEACE REIGNS except where war has been necessary to clean up the fringes. What you see is Progress of the kind which ENDURES."

You're all PIG, no human mixed in at all.

freethinking
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 09, 2013
United States Office of Strategic Services in describing Hitler's psychological profile:

His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it

WoW.... fits Otto to a T....... unfortunately.... also fits Obama to a T.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
2.2 / 5 (13) Jul 26, 2013
How can I prove that you're a card-carrying Nazi, Ghost? National Socialism = Nazism,yes? So here I quote you from 2012:

"In concert with national socialism it depopulated the continent and ENDED the religious influence on euro politics which had CREATED the chronic conditions of overpopulation and war. It continued throughout Asia, annihilating BOTH nationalist and communist hordes by the millions and replacing the cultures which produced them with a brutal martial law.
Overpop ceased. PEACE REIGNS except where war has been necessary to clean up the fringes. What you see is Progress of the kind which ENDURES."

You're all PIG, no human mixed in at all
Ahaahaaaa so youre saying that a criminologist is a criminal just because he studies criminals? He tries to make sense of what they do. I made some sense out of the insanity of war for you. I described EXACTLY what happened and WHY.

So how come youre not thanking me for the insight?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
BTW
His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it
This is an old and well-understood Formula. Read macchiavelli for a more in-depth description. Stalin didnt argue with his enemies - he KILLED them. So did joshua.

Oh tk does this mean I'm stalin too? Or the genocidal hebrew who tried and failed to cleanse the holy land? Where do you think hitler got the idea for Lebensraum?

The bible records everything you need to know about how to establish an Empire. Hitler knew it intimately.
freethinking
2 / 5 (8) Dec 09, 2013
Otto, linking Hitler, Stalin and Jesus....yup.... keep telling BIG LIES....
Telekinetic
1.7 / 5 (6) Dec 09, 2013
"PEACE REIGNS except where war has been necessary to clean up the fringes. What you see is Progress of the kind which ENDURES."- G. of O.

"Ahaahaaaa so youre saying that a criminologist is a criminal just because he studies criminals? He tries to make sense of what they do. I made some sense out of the insanity of war for you. I described EXACTLY what happened and WHY.
So how come youre not thanking me for the insight?"- G. of O.

Because you BELIEVE that genocide, as meted out by Nazis represents, in your own words, 'Progress of the kind which Endures'. If that isn't an endorsement, I don't know what is. You lose.

TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
Otto, linking Hitler, Stalin and Jesus....yup.... keep telling BIG LIES....
What do you think this means ft?

"11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

-What is he clearing his threshing floor of ft? Just who do you think the chaff is supposed to represent? Do you think that the burning thing is just a colorful metaphor for a scolding and a few missed meals?

"23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24 But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you." matt 11

-Guess not.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
technology no, you need fire
Ive often wondered how an aquatic species could develop metallurgy and fabricate things like screws, which is really what you need fire for. Undersea volcanism could provide heat, and clever octopi could build channels, dikes and chimneys to funnel and concentrate magma and superheated water. They could domesticate large fish for the heavy work, perhaps even trapping and domesticating surface species in tidal ponds. Turning screws might require 2 working in tandem.

But they would probably at some point build rafts. One could imagine them living just below the surface, and at some point making garments to keep them moist.

Their transition might take longer than ours. Over 1000s of gens they may develop a tolerance for sun and air.
you BELIEVE that genocide
I BELIEVE in inevitability. Lots of ways to destroy toxic cultures but one thing is certain: if they don't die, WE die.

"The plain fact is, for mankind to live religion must die" -maher
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 09, 2013
And obviously many very powerful people throughout history sought fit to act on this realization. How do you convince 70 million Germans to stop having huge families? You don't. Their god had always told them that this was an imperative and a duty. And they have always fought over the results of this enforced proclivity.

In prior centuries this excess served to produce and support large armies and waves of immigrants. But as the 20th century approached it became clear that the world could no longer tolerate this equation.

What to do? Either way war was inevitable. Unavoidable. But these people had already been divided for the Purpose of mutual annihilation a few gens before.

The Rus were given a bogus pseudoreligion which told them they had the right to steal everything from the rich. The Prussians and Bavarians were told they could do the same to the Jews. AND the most precious commodity of all, land, was promised to both of them by the same god who started this all to begin with.
freethinking
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 10, 2013
Big Lie Otto.

So why do you hate Christianity so much? Is it because you are a progressive and it's just in your nature, or it was because someone truly hurt you?
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2013
The Rus were given a bogus pseudoreligion which told them they had the right to steal everything from the rich. The Prussians and Bavarians were told they could do the same to the Jews. AND the most precious commodity of all, land, was promised to both of them by the same god who started this all to begin with.

And so the value and importance of proper education and the way we raise our children cannot be overstated. It's not like the way to provide that was written in stone for us. Well, except maybe for the part about not killing each other. That didn't last long. What happened? Faulty inspiration? I don't think so…

Land is the most precious commodity? Ha! So many planets, so little time!
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2013
CAUSE
"The population of the Central African Republic has almost quadrupled since independence. In 1960, the population was 1,232,000; as of 2009... 4,422,000."

EFFECT
"Two French soldiers were killed in the Central African Republic (CAR) today. Their deaths come less than a week after French troops mobilized... in a volatile country that some say is on the brink of a genocide"
So why do you hate Christianity so much?
I hate all religions equally. I've presented more than enough in these threads for most any rational person to conclude that religions are all based on lies.
just in your nature, or it was because someone truly hurt you
I suppose some people have been scared and abused to the extent that they will succumb to religion without thought, because like any drug it relieves their pain. Or they are simply addlebrained, which is more common than one might expect.

How can books full of lies be the source of goodness and truth?
Mazarin07
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2013
Yet another pseudo-relativizing statement.
Some self-proclaimed scientists get serious financing for this kind of nonsense.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2013
except maybe for the part about not killing each other. That didn't last long. What happened?
Well somebody just turned to a different part of the bible and found ample justification for killing. God demands it.

"All who curse their father or mother must be put to death." Lev20:9

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death." Lev20:10

"Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed." Exo22:19

"everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman." 2 Chron15:12-13

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.... you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock." Deut13

-Etc. How can you POSSIBLY think that the bible forbids killing???
freethinking
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 10, 2013
Otto, your big lie again. Why don't you answer the question why do you hate, malign, denigrate, misstate Christianity? Is it because you are simply a Progressive, or is it because you have been hurt by a Christian?
freethinking
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 10, 2013
Otto:

Here is a sermon from Ravi that really applies to you.... tell me what you think of the chicken story around the 20 minute mark.

http://www.youtub...aoavCsYE
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2013
I wasn't quoting you

Ah, that would explain why most of the words weren't mine. Sorry about that, MM :)
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2013
double post, oops
Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (6) Dec 10, 2013
-Etc. How can you POSSIBLY think that the bible forbids killing???

The bible's just a chip on your shoulder. I'd knock it off for you but you'd only pick it up and put it back. And please don't call me Etc :)
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2013
Otto, your big lie again
Be specific.
Why don't you answer the question why do you hate, malign, denigrate, misstate Christianity?
Because it is based on lies and causes untold misery and destruction.
Is it because you are a Progressive
I am NOT a progressive, whatever that is.
is it because you have been hurt by a Christian?
Sorry no xian has ever hurt me personally. What makes you think that something like abuse or injury would be the only reason anyone would reject your voodoo nonsense?

I read the evidence I listed above about how religions are founded on lies and plagiarized lies. I observe the damage religion has done to the world. And, like any reasonable and clear-headed person, I conclude that it is a huge problem.

The mystery is how you godders can selectively ignore all the damning evidence. Evidence-tampering is a type of deception. Does your god DECEIVE you in order to find out how much you TRUST him? What sort of retard would fall for this?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2013
-Etc. How can you POSSIBLY think that the bible forbids killing???

The bible's just a chip on your shoulder. I'd knock it off for you but you'd only pick it up and put it back. And please don't call me Etc :)
Answer the question. How can you POSSIBLY think that the bible forbids killing???
rkolter
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2013
Intelligence is not special. It is a trait that can be selected for.

Look - Tigers can swim. Pretty well in fact. But nobody would seriously say that a tiger can swim as well as a sea lion. It's not a fair comparison - Both have the trait, but one has developed the trait much further than the other.

Likewise, other animals are intelligent. Some are quite bright. But nobody should seriously say that other animals have the same scope, intensity, or depth of human intellect. It is no more a fair comparison than a swimming contest between a tiger an a sea lion.

There is a fastest swimmer, a deepest diver, a strongest arm, a loudest howl, a tiniest creature, a biggest creature, a creature with the highest metabolism, best eyesight, fastest muscle fibers, etcetera.

There is an animal with the greatest intellect. Like it or not, it's humans.
freethinking
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 10, 2013
OK Otto, if no Christian has hurt you, then you must be just a Big Lie, Christian Hating Progressive.
Huns
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 10, 2013
Why are you idiots derailing this thread to discuss Hitler? We should get back to talking about how stupid this article is.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 10, 2013
OK Otto, if no Christian has hurt you, then you must be just a Big Lie, Christian Hating Progressive.
Sorry tard Ive been baited enough for one thread. Why dont you go thump your bible if youre bored?
flying_finn
1 / 5 (4) Dec 10, 2013
Posted once here already........worth the revisit?

http://www.youtub...AgzfwuNQ

They avoid humans like the plague. Intelligent, wise, or just used to us?
freethinking
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 10, 2013
Otto, sad to see you don't have any more or new Big Lies to spread. I was hoping you would come up with a new or interesting lie. Anything that would make me do some research. All you could do was come up with unoriginal retread lies.

Ran across this just last week, and even though it was said by an 11 year old, at least what he said made me do some research.

http://www.youtub...m0ENWNZg

Protoplasmix
1 / 5 (6) Dec 10, 2013
Answer the question. How can you POSSIBLY think that the bible forbids killing???

Ghost, I think that anyone who cherry-picks a verse or two (from any religion) and then goes way overboard with it in support of their own agenda is a fundamentalist/extremist who lacks the cognitive ability to properly discern the literal from the figurative and who chooses purposefully to reject the entire rest of the context from which it came. What's it like to be an extremist, Ghost?
Huns
2.2 / 5 (6) Dec 11, 2013
The metaphysical magical supernatural types who are scared of gods always try to slap Otto with that crap. He's not "god fearing" and it drives them nutters. They want everything to be magical and republican, anyone who is not scared of gods gets hit that crap.

That doesn't answer the question of why you feel the need to shit up discussions with an off-topic argument that no one cares about but you.

How are you going to get stupid people to make smart comments about a stupid article?

Who says that's what I'm going for in the first place?

Sorry, but I feel that I must give a poor karma rating.

You are acting like a child. Everyone knows it but you.
Ramognino
1 / 5 (3) Dec 12, 2013
"We patronize the animals for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate of having taken form so far below ourselves. And therein we err, and greatly err. For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours, they are more finished and complete, gifted with extensions of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren, they are not underlings; they are other Nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time."
― Henry Beston
lovegeese
1 / 5 (3) Dec 12, 2013
mzso "" Even Aristotle, probably the most influential of all thinkers, argued that humans were superior to other animals due to our exclusive ability to reason,"

Well what did Aristotle know about animals? They can reason. Definition of reason "the power of the mind to think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic." You and aristotle don't think animals reason? There is a woman here I know who feeds pigeons.....the pigeons know what time of day she comes and they come at the same time. This type of thing is not reasoning? It's a freezing day and the ponds froze...so the waterfowl have to look for open water, or they can decide to sleep it out at their normal roosting spot. Animals think and reason all the time.
lovegeese
1 / 5 (4) Dec 12, 2013
I would argue that dogs and domestic animals are not the best representatives of animal intelligence since they have all been bred and trained for specific characteristics for hundreds of years by humans. They are more like a human animal creation.
lovegeese
1 / 5 (4) Dec 12, 2013
And by the way...animals already knew this too...that humans weren't the most intelligent species on the planet.
Huns
2 / 5 (4) Dec 12, 2013
"We patronize the animals for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate of having taken form so far below ourselves."

None of that means they have anywhere close to the cognitive abilities we do. You would have to have rocks in your head to think that because a dog can smell better than us, that its capabilities even approach ours. We can do more than they can because we are more capable. That's why they lick their assholes while we walk on the moon.
Huns
1 / 5 (3) Dec 12, 2013
And by the way...animals already knew this too...that humans weren't the most intelligent species on the planet.

Yes, we are the most intelligent species on the planet. If you disagree, please tell me what definition of intelligence you are using.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 13, 2013
And by the way...animals already knew this too...that humans weren't the most intelligent species on the planet.

Yes, we are the most intelligent species on the planet. If you disagree, please tell me what definition of intelligence you are using.
The one universal definition which says that it is unintelligent to soil ones nest. Also the ones that most animals have seemed to master but most humans have chosen to ignore, and that is to plan for the future and live within your means.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 13, 2013
I think that anyone who cherry-picks a verse or two (from any religion) and then goes way overboard with it in support of their own agenda is a fundamentalist/extremist
Well you godders do it all the time dont you? For instance you love john3:16 which is meaningless w/o verses 18-21.
who lacks the cognitive ability to properly discern the literal from the figurative
Figurative... are you implying that the bible stories are not meant to be taken literally? WHERE in your book does it say THAT??

It says quite the contrary; that the bible is 'god-breathed' and that not one word can be changed (unclear if this refers to the catholic, eastern ortho, protestant, or gnostic -?)

You cant claim that the flood never REALLY happened or that or that the 6 'day' creation is not literal, and still insist that the exodus actually took place or that the 10 commandments werent metaphors for some more complete and comprehensive list.
cont>
kochevnik
3 / 5 (2) Dec 13, 2013
@lovegeese There is a woman here I know who feeds pigeons.....the pigeons know what time of day she comes and they come at the same time. This type of thing is not reasoning? It's a freezing day and the ponds froze...so the waterfowl have to look for open water, or they can decide to sleep it out at their normal roosting spot. Animals think and reason all the time.
This is not reasoning, but simple conditioned stimulus response. A simple phase-locked loop circuit can exhibit the same behavior

Any real reasoning involves predication. Most animals use holophrases. They are descriptive, not prescriptive. Predication involves a belief. It is an assertion about specific objects and actions
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 13, 2013
I discredit religion by posting what science has told us about the claims it makes. Science tells us that the bible stories never happened and that the book itself is a collection of mistakes, propaganda, plagerisms, grafitti, and lies.

THERE WAS NO
6 day creation
first people
flood
rabbits with cuds
2M jews in goshen
exodus
joshua/gideon genocides
great solomon/david kingdoms
nazareth at the time of christ
unique, water-walking, leper-curing, fish-making, self-resurrecting godman

-Further, we know that moses didnt write the torah and that upwards of 40% of the pauline works and 100% of petrine works are forgeries.

And the scientists and scholars who have reached these conclusions are not extremists. Many of them are deeply religious, or at least were before making their discoveries. No, it takes an increasing extremism to maintain a belief in bible inerrancy in light of these continuing revelations.
Captain Stumpy
1 / 5 (1) Dec 14, 2013
Regardless of ANYONES interpretation of any book, bible or otherwise… it is RELIGION that is dangerous, not necessarily "faith"! a belief tends to be personal, but a religion is something that is codified, organized and dogmatic. It is the establishment of a doctrine that then allows others to dehumanize anyone who does not think alike and allows them to then persecute and kill. This is RELIGION in a nutshell. It is nothing more than a construct that someone found useful in controlling PEOPLE…
no matter WHAT religion it is, if it is organized, structured and has a doctrine, then it is dangerous, and it is capable of harm, for it is the doctrine or the creed itself that allows thinking that is malicious and dangerous, and usually it is directed at anyone outside the confines of that particular religious principle that guides the leadership, and the sheep that do not think for themselves.

and before yall hate on that... I am NOT against anyone's faith... just religion
Captain Stumpy
1 / 5 (1) Dec 14, 2013
But wolves are fully capable of expressing their needs to each other, in wholly natural ways. And their needs arent anything like 'please let me out or I will crap on your carpet'.


I love this quote! And it is absolutely true. LMFAO!

P.S. according to the X-tain religion, only the Jews are not monkey's. that is if you are taking the bible literally... think about that.

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