New work gives credence to theory of universe as a hologram

Dec 13, 2013 by Bob Yirka weblog
Image credit: Hubble/NASA

(Phys.org) —In publishing a story regarding work reported by Japanese physicists last month, Nature News has set off a bit of a tabloid firestorm by describing an obscure bit of physics theory as "the clearest evidence yet that our Universe could be just one big projection." In two papers uploaded to the preprint server arXiv, Yoshifumi Hyakutake and colleagues from Ibaraki University in Japan offer evidence that supports a theory that suggests that a universe as we conceive of it could actually be a hologram of another two-dimensional space.

The papers follow up on a first proposed by Juan Maldacen, who in 1997, came up with what is now known as string theory, part of which suggests certain types of universes might actually be holograms of real two-dimensional universes, which is where, as he described it, "the real action would play out."

String theory was widely embraced by the physics community because it did what no other theory could—provide a bridge across inconsistencies that arose between quantum physics and Einstein's . The inconsistencies became apparent as physicists began contemplating and their properties and found that the while could explain what was observed, the theory of relativity could not. The only down side to was that no one could come up with a proof of it. In this new effort, Hyakutake and his team appear to have come closer.

Hyakutake and various colleagues have been working on the problem for years, submitting papers as they go—all leading, apparently, to the two they've most recently uploaded. One of their papers describes mathematically what should happen, according to theory, in a black hole, with numbers that should describe its properties as well. The other describes what should result, theoretically speaking, if there were another, lower dimensional with no gravity. What's surprising, of course, is that the two match, suggesting that one could be projecting the other as a hologram.

The papers don't suggest that the universe we actually live in is a hologram, Hyakutake et al's computations describe a universe with ten dimensions in the realm of the black hole and a single dimension universe when calculating characteristics of a gravity free two-dimensional universe. The work does provide a hint however, that what can be calculated using different dimensional universes could perhaps one day be calculated for our own. That of course would imply that what we see and do here might actually be occurring elsewhere and we are merely experiencing its holographic representation.

Explore further: Theorists apply loop quantum gravity theory to black hole

More information: Holographic description of quantum black hole on a computer, arXiv:1311.5607 [hep-th] arxiv.org/abs/1311.5607

Quantum Near Horizon Geometry of Black 0-Brane, arXiv:1311.7526 [hep-th] arxiv.org/abs/1311.7526

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HannesAlfven
1.8 / 5 (15) Dec 13, 2013
How do we re-interest professional scientists in the relationships between the fundamental forces and particles? The answer is that the public needs to develop a deeper appreciation of the philosophical problems inherent to speculative science. Stop clicking on this flashy crap that you wish were true, and start thinking in terms of the more probable scenario: That there are mistakes in our scientific theories which this flashy stuff distracts us from.
tadchem
1.8 / 5 (10) Dec 13, 2013
Since when is a theory "evidence"? I am not sure which is worse, that a tabloid would make such an unscientific statement, or that a scientific journal would cite the tabloid with any credulity.
Zalk
2.1 / 5 (14) Dec 13, 2013
I guess the theory of gravity isn't enough evidence for you tadchem.
NeutronicallyRepulsive
2 / 5 (8) Dec 13, 2013
Oh well.. The 3rd annual international conference of the graphomaniacs is hereby commenced. Enjoy below vvv
davidivad
2.8 / 5 (6) Dec 13, 2013
Math is kind of funny in the fact that you can do strange things with it. I can see mathematical techniques to encode information many different ways including creating a hologram, but i do not see how a more complex two dimensional structure representing a less complicated 3d or 4d structure simplifies the real world we live in.
no fate
2.2 / 5 (10) Dec 13, 2013
I guess the theory of gravity isn't enough evidence for you tadchem.


Gravity isn't a theory, it is a force. The first 2 posters here are accurate. Theoretical physics should actually encompass aspects of observed reality.

"One of their papers describes mathematically what should happen, according to theory, in a black hole, with numbers that should describe its properties as well. The other describes what should result, theoretically speaking, if there were another, lower dimensional universe with no gravity. What's surprising, of course, is that the two match, suggesting that one could be projecting the other as a hologram."

The above paragraph has no business in a scientific forum, 3 "shoulds" an "if" and a "could" about a "theory" in a paragraph about the mathematics inside a body never observed or measured (excluding emissions from these regions of course) which most physicists claim our understanding of reality breaks down inside.

Waste of time and resources.

no fate
4.2 / 5 (10) Dec 13, 2013
Waste of time and resources.


Well why are you wasting your time and resources here Skippy? Why don't you and HannesHasAManCrushOnAlfven go out make good use of your time at the Smartest-R-Us web site. No, don't SIT DOWN, go away.


I just can't get enough of your scientific insight and thoughful remarks, that's the real reason I'm here. Your charm and tact as well as your courteous demeanor speak volumes about what a true savant you really are, although you try so desperately to hide your genius, it shows with every post. I only post comments in the hopes that I will see yet another gem of wisdom from you, so that I can be guided in the right direction. Please say more....
tommo
1 / 5 (6) Dec 13, 2013
Having been studying dark matter & energy and inflation, a holographic "universe" seems quite possible in the math of the SM and would fit into that world operating in a cloud of a dark matter-energy structure.

Dark matter is not a unidirectional "rain", it must be coming from all directions with a main flow within these structures where our particle universe exists. With only a gravitational relationship between the two, a problem is to discriminate between particle gravity and dark matter gravity using a gravimeter or gravimetric data.

Thus to ascertain that difference to me would have something to say about the matter we can detect, and that which by orbits on galaxies shows a mass not enough by particle matter alone to account for the motions. So, using this same strategy to then extend it to find more subtle gravitational evidence as leading to a better understanding seems a valid path of work.

Then, magnetism may also have a relationship to dark matter & energy, a hunch ...
Oversoul 1
1 / 5 (7) Dec 13, 2013
I want first, I want first..!.!.!

"Pseudo-scientific metaphysical mumbo jumbo!"
cantdrive85

Haha, owned :D
obama_socks
1.8 / 5 (10) Dec 13, 2013
Waste of time and resources.


Well why are you wasting your time and resources here Skippy? Why don't you and HannesHasAManCrushOnAlfven go out make good use of your time at the Smartest-R-Us web site. No, don't SIT DOWN, go away.
- Zephir_fan

How strange. GhostofOtto's sockpuppet, FrankHerbert used to tell people he/she disagreed with, to "go away" also...and very seldom ever offered anything of value pertinent to the topic and discussion.

Until Zephir_fan proves otherwise, I will consider him/her to be part of the new generation of FrankHerbert replacements in Theghostofotto1923's sockpuppet chamber of horrors.

Re the topic: I find it very hard to discount scientific theories (even the hare-brained ones) and instead choose to attempt total comprehension of each one and make comparisons.
Why? For the reason that science and technology is still pretty much in its infancy and we are still learning and discovering. It will take a very long time before we know all.
Q-Star
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 13, 2013
Having been studying dark matter & energy and inflation,


Ya might wish to study a little harder, so ya don't write things like this,,,,,,,,,,,

Dark matter is not a unidirectional "rain", it must be coming from all directions with a main flow within these structures where our particle universe exists. With only a gravitational relationship between the two, a problem is to discriminate between particle gravity and dark matter gravity using a gravimeter or gravimetric data..

scottfos
4.8 / 5 (8) Dec 13, 2013
lol folks, it's just a PAPER! we're still trying to understand what Hubble found, let alone what Schmidt & Riess found. there will be lots of tangents en route to a model that works better than current models. that's expected.

just calm down, and enjoy it.
tommo
1 / 5 (5) Dec 13, 2013
Agreeing with the thought that the article itself isn't worthy perhaps on points, but the idea of exploring a non-gravitational relationship might be worthy as a construct, dark matter must work in a context where it's able to travel above c by most accounts.

The research shows the entities-particles of dark matter are very light and influenced by gravity, so to put that into the context of a black hole, or the so-called worm holes along with the theory that dark matter creates the structure in the universe that particle physics observes implies that it can only exist in a cloud of dark matter, so, has a lot of implications not provable at the moment.

I think the hologram analogy is OK, finding that it satisfies a math interesting yet may be misleading so don't want to take it too far yet.
kelman66
2 / 5 (4) Dec 13, 2013
Strange conjecture but mildly intriguing
Egleton
1 / 5 (6) Dec 13, 2013
I see sacred cows headed for slaughter. The cows were brought into existence by induction. They were never seen to be violated, but the NSA has secret cameras everywhere and have cought them in flagrente delictio. No amount of protestation will save them now. They have been seen.
By protestation I mean the kludges that are used to hold the entire edifice of 18 th Century theoretical physics up.
18th Century physicists had a big advantage over us-no baggage. These days we lug so much intillectual baggage around that are no longer nimble.
We plod.
Here are the cows. For every action there is an equal and opposit reaction. The laws of entrophy, the arrow of causation, the law of conservation of energy, the "constants" being sort of constant. Make up your own list-they are all worthy of our mockery. Dont worry the cows have no feelings-they dont mind.
Dance Kali-Oh destroyer of egos and illusions.
Whydening Gyre
1.9 / 5 (9) Dec 14, 2013
Math is kind of funny in the fact that you can do strange things with it. I can see mathematical techniques to encode information many different ways including creating a hologram, but i do not see how a more complex two dimensional structure representing a less complicated 3d or 4d structure simplifies the real world we live in.

Simple - it doesn't. I liken it more to daydreaming. These guys need to find a sex partner - they'd get a lot more real stuff done.
davidivad
1 / 5 (5) Dec 14, 2013
Higgs was given the prize. we have a gravity field. this means that the branch of quantum field theory wins the race. I guess the world really is a hologram in the sense that the physical world we live in is nothing more than waves in a field. we do not need more complex math to figure that out.
ut2262
3.5 / 5 (6) Dec 14, 2013
Holographic model was originally derived for black hole surface. It still doesn't make the black hole a hologram - it will still remain the black hole with jets, charge, magnetic field and similar stuffs. The holographic model just describes some entropic features relating the black hole event horizon and its interior. I presume, the same logics applies to holographic model of universe: there are still lotta things, which this model cannot describe.

And how the holographic projection could generate the (images of) photons flying the speed of light? Such a projection must be superluminal after then - and it would violate the speed limit. After then it cannot be derived from general relativity, on which black hole is based.
mytwocts
2.1 / 5 (7) Dec 14, 2013
According to

How strange. GhostofOtto's sockpuppet, FrankHerbert used to tell people he/she disagreed with, to "go away" also...and very seldom ever offered anything of value pertinent to the topic and discussion.


Sounds like he might have told you how stupid you are.

Until Zephir_fan proves otherwise, I will consider him/her to be part of the new generation of FrankHerbert replacements in Theghostofotto1923's sockpuppet chamber of horrors.


I'm an independent operator Skippy. But why would you think I care what you consider? Consider me whatever you want the Ira to be, that will make my job here easier.

Why don't you go play with your Obama puppet, let the smart peoples do their smart stuffs.


Please stay away from this forum.
Mayday
2.8 / 5 (4) Dec 14, 2013
It's not a hologram; it's an Instagram selfie. And it appears to have been shared by someone named Skippy!
Mimath224
1 / 5 (4) Dec 14, 2013
Probably SS theory and SUSY at it's best...or worst, depending on ones inclination. The theory in the article is also linked to 11dimensions and the equations that go with them...which I guess 'wowed' the NYT to begin with.
Noumenon
1.8 / 5 (10) Dec 14, 2013
It's not a hologram; it's an Instagram selfie. And it appears to have been shared by someone named Skippy!


Don't mind the zephir_fan troll, she's doing research for a book, on the 'art of talking down to people for dummies'
Anonym
1 / 5 (4) Dec 14, 2013
Note to editor: a more accurate headline would be "... adds credence to... "
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (6) Dec 14, 2013
I find it very hard to discount scientific theories (even the hare-brained ones) and instead choose to attempt total comprehension
-You mean these scientific theories of yours pussytard?

"The cell had all its ducks in a row, so to speak, and God only had to use His Energy to start up the tiny "machine" so that it could become self-aware with EM coursing through its neurons" "How do you know that cell didn't come equipped with everything. It was created by God, not you" [uh because neurons are cells you moron]"

"THINKS DRY ICE CAN CURE MELTDOWNS: "The dry ice will not need to be right in with the rods, but just above to cool them. And there will be no contamination of the dry ice as it melts and is recycled to be refrozen and come back as dry ice again..."

"The evil person's Soul doesn't experience the FIRES of hell immediately. No, it has to wait a very long time until the Sun goes supernova..."

-And a few dozen more. You fucking retard.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Dec 14, 2013
Having been studying dark matter & energy and inflation,


Ya might wish to study a little harder, so ya don't write things like this,,,,,,,,,,,

Dark matter is not a unidirectional "rain", it must be coming from all directions with a main flow within these structures where our particle universe exists. With only a gravitational relationship between the two, a problem is to discriminate between particle gravity and dark matter gravity using a gravimeter or gravimetric data..

pussytard and 'tommo' seem to dwell on the same intellectual plane. I wonder why.
roldor
1 / 5 (4) Dec 14, 2013
But then there are 3 possibilities now:
The cat is living.
The cat is dead.
Or there is no cat at all in the box, because someone switched off the illumination. And now??

No, it is the simulation of a hologram, projected by a singular beamer. Thats evidence! HoHo.
So, i do this, while knowing, that there no one exists, who can read nor understand this. Then
the question arises: What is the meaninge of typing at all?
big_hairy_jimbo
1 / 5 (6) Dec 14, 2013
ok, well YES the holographic PRINCIPLE was established to describe the event horizon of black holes. The key part that you have all missed, is the suggestion that our universe is INSIDE a black hole, and that everything we see in our 3d space + 1 time universe is a projection from the 2d surface of the parent black hole we are inside. Considering how the internals of a black hole are extremely warped, then we have the TARDIS effect happening, where the inside is larger than the outside. With this, changes in the horizon surface can take place, obeying G.R., but projected into a much larger universe on the inside. The question then becomes, what is doing the projection. I'd guess at something called DARK (insert word here). Dark Energy, Matter whatever. There seems to be a link between DARK somethings, and BLACK holes. I'm afraid it's TURTLES the whole way down, and it seems the TURTLES are BLACK holes.
alexofsarna
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2013
The external universe is a manifestation of an extremely intricately balanced, perfectly logical system of various harmonic regenerations from many wave forms, all interacting, interweaving, and regenerating based upon already-understood and relatively simple principles. These principles are frequency relationship, harmonic regeneration, phase relationship, centripetal/centrifugal forces, oscillation, synchronization, etc.

Basically, any manifestation in the universe, being pure energy wave forms in its innermost configuration, can manifest in this reality because it shares harmonic relationship to all other manifestations in the universe. In other words, the universe can be visualized as a spectrum of compatible configurations, all able to interact in some way, or to coexist in the same reality because their most fundamental constituents, wave forms, share harmonic relationship.

However, the real secret is that it is the result of a higher frequency universe generating harmonics.
ut2262
1 / 5 (3) Dec 15, 2013
Possibly related to subject: AMOEBA is a prototype wave-pool developed in 1997 by the Department of Naval Architecture and Ocean Engineering in Osaka, Japan. The purpose of this water contraption is to study the effects of waves on ships in open waters (LQ YT video).
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (6) Dec 15, 2013
The external universe is a manifestation of an extremely intricately balanced, perfectly logical system of various harmonic regenerations from many wave forms, all interacting, interweaving, and regenerating based upon already-understood and relatively simple principles. These principles are frequency relationship, harmonic regeneration, phase relationship, centripetal/centrifugal forces, oscillation, synchronization, etc.
This smells a little too much like infinitely dense aether waves but the English is far too good. FAIL

Was zephyr kidnapped by 900 ft tall glass-headed Martians or something? Maybe he just went surfing.
tommo
2 / 5 (4) Dec 15, 2013
Mixing cosmology and SM ... structure. It's like Sternglass was wrong? ... nope, but that structural view of sub-atomic was usurped by what became known as the SM.

That's the only inroad I know of that successfully showed a connection between them to some level but that's just my take on the papers.
Whydening Gyre
1.7 / 5 (6) Dec 15, 2013
Think 4D game of tic tac toe...
alexofsarna
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2013
This smells a little too much like infinitely dense aether waves but the English is far too good. FAIL

Was zephyr kidnapped by 900 ft tall glass-headed Martians or something? Maybe he just went surfing.

Well, in a nutshell, Otto, yes. Any manifestation in the universe must, by necessity, embody an infinite array of constituents which facilitate its existence, and all of its "textures", which are units, or if you like, quanta, of information, which "program" it with the abilities to either interact or not with any other given manifestation.

While it is tricky reviving aether concepts, any given area of what we call "space" must by definition, be a medium of transference for the more familiar configurations we glimpse about us. I would like to discuss these things more with you, would email correspondence be preferrable to 1000 character comments?

Thanks for the compliment! I always strive to articulate clearly what I am speaking about, these things are very abstract!
obama_socks
1 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2013
It's not a hologram; it's an Instagram selfie. And it appears to have been shared by someone named Skippy!


Don't mind the zephir_fan troll, she's doing research for a book, on the 'art of talking down to people for dummies'
- Noumenon

Hello Noumenon...I gave you a 5 for that but it doesn't seem to have made much of a diff in your rating for that one comment. Too bad. I had hoped that Physorg would've eliminated their rating scheme, but it may be possible now for them to delete all of Theghostofotto1923's superfluous accounts that never comment and only downrate people that Goats doesn't like and tells lies about. I see that Ghostofotto is still riding high with his DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY DISORDER and boorish behavior.

Re the topic: if our universe is a hologram, then it may be a computer program that is running this hologram and everything has been planned beforehand...life, matter/energy, thought, philosophy, science, religion, historical events, etc.

TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 15, 2013
Well, in a nutshell, Otto, yes. Any manifestation in the universe must, by necessity, embody an infinite array of constituents which facilitate its existence, and all of its "textures", which are units, or if you like, quanta, of information, which "program" it with the abilities to either interact or not with any other given manifestation
Well how can you say this when you declared earlier that
increments are also conceptualized by the mind, as it doesn't naturally occur in nature
???

You fucking moron.
ut2262
1 / 5 (3) Dec 15, 2013
The Universe has not the black hole metric - but FLRW metric, which is inverted by time dimension (white hole). So that when the black hole is holographic projector, then the Universe is sorta holographic microscope, or what?
obama_socks
1 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2013
How many voting puppets does the noumenon maintain? He admitted to four dozens, but I'm thinking it's more, considering that in the old threads his comments are voted on by 60 to 80 peoples while everyone else is only getting three or five. Certainly there can't be 60 people in the world that think is not very stupid.

How about you? Do you have any sock puppets, besides the Obama one? Just what is it you like so much about Obama anyway? You don't seem like the Obama type to me.
- Zephir_fan

ROFLOL...I am not an Obama fan. That's all you need to know for now.
I have 2 sockpuppets that I use to comment about serious engineering topics. GoatsofOtto doesn't know those names, only this one. THIS name is only for religious and political topics and some topics that I like to mess around with. But all my religious views are genuine - Otto hates the idea of his Soul remaining in his body after he dies and feeling pain as it rot away.

Sorry, I have no idea how many Noumenon has.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (4) Dec 15, 2013
Oh By the Bee...I recall Otto's sockpuppet FrankHerbert threatening that he was going to take Noumenon's overall rating score down to a 2. I think Noumenon had a 4 plus at the time.
So, if you saw 50 - 60 or more downvotes for Noumenon in older posts, those downvotes are from Theghostofotto1923 and his sockpuppet, FrankHerbert and dozens of his voting bots who never comment...or hardly ever.

The war was between FrankHerbert and Noumenon and Noum finds it hard to understand that it has been Theghostofotto1923 all along that he was arguing with in threads.
Otto changes his personality and manner of talking with each sockpuppet. Otto thinks he owns this website and is given permission to tell lies about people and do the name calling.

LOL...someday, Physorg will kick him out of here, but he'll only come back with another user name.
Noumenon
2 / 5 (8) Dec 15, 2013
He admits to four dozen, but he's also a pretty hopeless liar, and not very good at it, so I'm thinking, considering the evidence, that its a lot more.


I've never stated anything of the kind, you dope. You're the biggest idiot that I have ever seen post here. The cranks know far more than you.

I have only stated that I up rate myself to counter troll raters that are invalid due to 1-rating irrespective of content of posts. Why would this concern you (?) unless you don't like your trolling efforts invalidated, in which case it is precisely why I do it.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2013
@Zephir_fan
Most religionists don't share my view of what happens to an evil Soul after its body dies. My opinion is that that Soul is evil because it retains all the evil in thought, word and deed while it was a living human being. And after the body is dead, the Soul cannot get out and go about the world enjoying its new existence. It has to remain inside its body and feel the pain of corruption of the flesh. That's the first death.
That doesn't happen to a Soul who was good...leading an exemplary life. In that case, the Soul of a good person leaves its body and is free to wander and even join its loved ones who died before.
Sometimes an evil Soul gets out of its body and it is then considered an "evil spirit" that goes around trying to corrupt the living.

Sorry, this is the wrong thread, but you said you side with TheghostofOttoSkorzeny, so I have explained what I believe even if you disagree with it.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2013
So, if you saw 50 - 60 or more downvotes for Noumenon in older posts, those downvotes are from Theghostofotto1923 and his sockpuppet, FrankHerbert and dozens of his voting bots who never comment...or hardly ever.


No, I saw 60 to 80 votes, I didn't say downvotes, 40 or 60 of them had to noumenon voting, because his, and only his karma scores were 4 to 4.5. So he was voting three ups for every one down.

Unless, like I said, you really believe there might be 40 or 60 people in the world who actually think noumenon is smart, and we both know that is very not possible. Everyone else was only getting three or four total votes.
- Zephir_fan

Exactly what is your problem regarding Noumenon? He had a 4 out of 5 score...Otto and his sockpuppets brought it down to a 3.5 out of 5. From everything I've read in Noumenon's comments, he is highly intelligent and knowledgable without needing to check with Wiki, etc. as Theghostofotto1923 needs to do before commenting.

obama_socks
1 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2013
@Zephir_fan...If Noumenon had been uprating himself in his old posts, his overall score would still be 4 out of 5 OR HIGHER, instead of dropping down to 3.5. out of 5. This means that you don't know what you're talking about and you're only continuing the war that FrankHerbert aka Theghostofotto1923 had with Noumenon. for whatever reason.
This brings me back to the fact that you are probably Ghost's sockpuppet from hell, FrankHerbert. LOL
You can lie all your want, to me you are FrankHerbert aka GhostofOttoSkorzeny

Like I said, this is my "religion and politics" user name, and the one where I will mess with your head with. I am not very often taken seriously, but on the subject of Noumenon's overall score, you can consider it serious. I don't like to read where someone who is genuinely intelligent, smart, knowledgable, and has some of the best comprehensive skills in this Physorg taken down by another who doesn't have all those qualities.

So, quit the BS, Frank
Whydening Gyre
2.6 / 5 (5) Dec 15, 2013
Having multi login names to do this or that doesn't mean you're smart. Just means you're dishonest with all here, as well as yourselves...
Careful - you're letting your schizophrenic tendencies show...
At least Zeph only does it when he has to after he's been booted...
marraco
1 / 5 (1) Dec 16, 2013
The mane is MaldacenA, not Maldacen as stated in this article
obama_socks
1 / 5 (3) Dec 16, 2013
Yep...good old Zephyr and his AWT. He hangs in there almost as much as the AGW gang and old TardietardtardE (Vemdicar) and his hatred of America and Capitalism. Not to mention Theghostofotto1923's vision of a bright future of robots to replace humans, and Ghost"s delusions of people being other people instead of themselves.
What the hell would we do without such losers to entertain us? :)

I use my 2 other user names for serious science, but I must be careful not to reveal my (our) projects or I will be fired for sure. I love my job.
alexofsarna
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 16, 2013
Well how can you say this when you declared earlier that
increments are also conceptualized by the mind, as it doesn't naturally occur in nature
???

You fucking moron.


All right than, but I did not say anything resembling the phrase "increments are also conceptualized by the mind, but it doesn't naturally occur in nature", so please do not confuse the issue or misrepresent/misquote me.

I have only made 2 posts on this forum, and both are on this topic. Please read them again carefully and you may change your opinion of me. You appear to have skewed your perception of me unduly, and if you read the posts objectively, perhaps we can open an intelligent dialogue amongst ourselves?
Noumenon
2 / 5 (4) Dec 16, 2013
If noumenon were as intelligent as all that, he wouldn't devote so much time and effort over a karma point score.


Who says I spend much time at that, at all.

... karma scores. Who cares? Noumenon cares. Why? It makes feel all warm and smart and wonderful.


If I cared at all about comment ratings, why would I request of Phys.Org to disable the rating system altogether?

The question is why YOU as a troll care about MY ratings, and why it bothers YOU that I invalidate YOUR (& toot, NOM, open, etc) trolling efforts. You're the idiot that invented the phrase "karma points" here and use it as some sort of adolencent punishment for upseting " The Ira". This isn't facebook. Go away or post things relevent to the discusion.
roblabs
3 / 5 (4) Dec 16, 2013
these comments are such a waste of time and space...
Noumenon
3 / 5 (6) Dec 16, 2013
I use my 2 other user names for serious science, but I must be careful not to reveal my (our) projects or I will be fired for sure
This is just a result of patient selection process of PO admins. Only imbecile posts are allowed here and the voting trolls will do the rest. IMO this approach is intentional, as the establishment doesn't want to allow the spreading other than official physics ideas at public forums.


It is true and also so for conservative minded posters. The 1-rating troll campaign is supported by the admins and is designed to obfuscate the value of comments of select posters irrespective of the individual merit of a given post. This is intellectual corruption.

While I don't accept the AWT, many of the "crank" posters that advocate such alternative views display more physics knowledge than most of the posters here do. What is the point of banning a Zepyr/Frankins and yet alowing a zephir_fan or a BAKOON free reign?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Dec 16, 2013
Otto...is given permission to tell lies about people and do the name calling
I dont have to post lies pussytard only repost the lies you tell. Like
employed by an aerospace company in the capacity of an Engineer with many degrees" "the education for which I received my diplomas, awards, et al
-and:
Anyway, I took a few days off from NASA
-and:
I've never been a NASA engineer
-See? Youre a LIAR.

Pussytard laments:
I don't like to read where someone who is genuinely intelligent... taken down by another
-But absolute imbeciles like you are fair game yes? Because you post
I do not understand why SETI..."[isnt looking for alien messages in extrasolar aurora emissions]
-and:
in order to have absolute zero growth, NO babies are to be live births...If all the adults live to be 100 years, then it will mean that no new babies will be allowed to be born UNTIL ALL those adults have died first.
-and you do not expect people to laugh at
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Dec 16, 2013
you???

More?
Caltech...my old alma mater
Ahaahaaaa.
Multiply that by millions of couples and their descendants and the original factor of 2 live births per couple has now added enormously to the population
and
HOSE TELEPORTATION: The cells would have to be broken down into its quantum components so that it can be "fluid" enough to travel along the circuitry connecting to the receiving lab
...Heres a mouthful:
in the expansion cycle or stage of the Universe, all matter and energy grow further and further apart with larger spaces in between the components which make up the Universe as well as on an atomic and possibly subatomic level...after the transition occurs and the contracting cycle begins, polarity changes with possible changes and reversals in Physical Laws, and all components of the Universe are attracted to everything else, which makes all matter and energy come closer together...there is no place for the matter/energy components of the Universe to go
Noumenon
2 / 5 (4) Dec 16, 2013
It is true and also so for conservative minded posters. The 1-rating troll campaign is supported by the admins and is designed to obfuscate the value of comments of select posters irrespective of the individual merit of a given post. This is intellectual corruption.


Obfuscate the value of comments? Intellectual corruption? Well that sure sounded philosophical and pointy-headed. Did you have to go to school to learn to write like that?


You will have to work to raise yourself to my level, as I refuse to lower myself to yours.

Who's going to sign my petition to the nice people at physorg to only let peoples to vote on their own karma points?


You seem to have more of a problem with people countering troll-raters than the troll raters themselves. Why is that? Why isn't your solution to ban troll accounts or turn off the system?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Dec 16, 2013
Caltech...my old alma mater


Otto, you are a smart people, but in this one instance you have stumbled. Obama-man meant to write Old Alma, my mother. (I had to google up the Caltech thing like you taught me, it's a school, but I really doubt his mother when to school there, it's for smart peoples)
Perhaps she mispelled caltech for cowpatch.
obama_socks
not rated yet Dec 16, 2013
Caltech...my old alma mater


Otto, you are a smart people, but in this one instance you have stumbled. Obama-man meant to write Old Alma, my mother. (I had to google up the Caltech thing like you taught me, it's a school, but I really doubt his mother when to school there, it's for smart peoples)
- Zephir_fan

GhostofOtto (worships the dead Nazi, Otto Skorzeny - see Otto's other user name, Theghostofotto1932.

Regarding my old alma mater, I graduated from Caltech with Phd's in Mechanical and Electrical Engineering with a 3.9 GPA.

Theghostofotto is suffering from DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY DISORDER (formerly called Multiple Personality Disorder) and is delusional, which is why he believes in his irrational mind that I am Estevan57, Noumenon, Pussycat_Eyes, a nurse, a Russian, a soregum farmer, a 900 foot glassy-eyed Martian, a 40 pound lead boomerang, a ballet dancer, and a NASA worker.

Otto is obviously off his meds again and suffers delusions about me and others.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (1) Dec 16, 2013
I use my 2 other user names for serious science, but I must be careful not to reveal my (our) projects or I will be fired for sure
This is just a result of patient selection process of PO admins. Only imbecile posts are allowed here and the voting trolls will do the rest. IMO this approach is intentional, as the establishment doesn't want to allow the spreading other than official physics ideas at public forums.
- Noumenon

It is now evident that Otto's sockpuppet FrankHerbert is back with the user name, Zephir_fan. It is also evident that TheGhostofotto1923 has accomplished what he came into this thread (and most other threads) to do, that is, to disrupt the discussion on the topic and to continue with Otto's insane disassociation with reality by claiming comments that have been taken out of context, as though such things were important to the topic of the thread(s).

This is, of course, an insane jealousy that takes hold of Otto and there is no cure for it.
obama_socks
1 / 5 (1) Dec 16, 2013
@Noumenon

I repeat: It is now evident that Otto's sockpuppet FrankHerbert is back with the user name, Zephir_fan. It is also evident that TheGhostofotto1923 has accomplished what he came into this thread (and most other threads) to do, that is, to disrupt the discussion on the topic and to continue with Otto's insane disassociation with reality by claiming comments that have been taken out of context, as though such things were important to the topic of the thread(s).

This is, of course, an insane jealousy that takes hold of Otto and there is no cure for it.

It is also evident that Phys.org is partial to trolls, cranks and Theghostofotto1923 and his associated sockpuppet chamber of horrors.

I had hoped to continue my participation in the discussion of the topic, but the presence of a nutcase like Otto and his lies as to comments taken out of context which Otto obviously has kept in a file for the purpose of producing them because Otto thinks it will intimidate me somehow. LOL
obama_socks
1 / 5 (1) Dec 16, 2013
I am not intimidated, but the discussion has been hijacked and, in my opinion, ruined, as all discussions are once Theghostofotto1923 and/or sockpuppets show up to make idiotic, insolent and meaningless comments.

PHYS.ORG - SHAME ON YOU FOR TOLERATING SUCH STUPID BEHAVIOR!!

TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Dec 16, 2013
Regarding my old alma mater, I graduated from Caltech with Phd's in Mechanical and Electrical Engineering with a 3.9 GPA
...I suppose that's where you learned so much about satellite fabrimicating?
I said that they could make room for it. There's a difference."........ "That's FOUR MORE YEARS, BLOTTO... There is PLENTY OF TIME for the needed equipment to be added on" [to the Webb telescope; another gross misperception according to REAL NASA engineers] [but then she 'forgets' what the Webb is] "Satellites? Hmmm...I can't recall ever commenting about satellites"
-Remember?
he came into this thread (and most other threads) to do, that is, to disrupt the discussion on the topic
What YOU do pussytard is come here and think you can pretend to be what you most obviously are not. You're not an engineer, a psychiatrist, a NASA employee, a nurse, a Russian, or sorghum farmer.

And you will NOT be allowed to do this and get away with it. Do you understand?
obama_socks
1 / 5 (1) Dec 16, 2013
@ghostofotto

And do YOU understand that you are NOT the owner of this Physorg, nor do you have any say in whoever uses this site for commenting on the topics or whatever they choose to say in any of these comment sections?
I will say whatever I wish to say and you can follow me around to whichever threads I choose to make my comments. Tell your lies about me and others. I will still say whatever I want and so will Noumenon and Estevan57 and whoever else you decide to attack.

You will be ignored no matter what you say and I will make sure to suggest to everyone in each thread that they should ignore your comments. If they choose not to ignore you, then that is their decision, not mine. I am not afraid of your downvotes. You may continue downvoting me all you want, since the votes are meaningless. This is the last time I will acknowledge your foul presence, Otto. Go back to your Nazi shrine and take your meds. You're quite insane.
Requiem
5 / 5 (2) Dec 17, 2013
lol wow
roblabs
2.3 / 5 (3) Dec 17, 2013
petty people and issues...
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (1) Dec 19, 2013
here is a simple refute to the universe hologram article above

http://www.univer...ologram/

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (1) Dec 24, 2013
Zephir_fan - writes
I'm not a Otto puppet. I am an independent operator.


the whole reason you are targeted as a sock puppet is that you agree with Otto. I have both agreed with, and disagreed with Otto, and I have come under fire from BOTH camps supporters.
Although, I have to be honest, Obama_socks never called me a sock-puppet of Otto. Others have, though. And others have called me a puppet of Obama_socks. Where, in all actuality, I am just here to TRY and learn some science.

so... dont feel bad. It comes with the territory. if you comment, or try to agree, you will be targeted. if you dont, you'll be called a troll.

here is a simple refute to the universe hologram article above... it was well written, and pretty much sums it up (at least, for me, anyway)

http://www.univer...ologram/
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Dec 25, 2013
A good link, Cap'n...

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