Opposite behaviors? Arctic sea ice shrinks, Antarctic grows

Oct 23, 2012
Opposite behaviors? Arctic sea ice shrinks, Antarctic grows
September 2012 witnessed two opposite records concerning sea ice. Two weeks after the Arctic Ocean's ice cap experienced an all-time summertime low for the satellite era (left), Antarctic sea ice reached a record winter maximum extent (right). But sea ice in the Arctic has melted at a much faster rate than it has expanded in the Southern Ocean, as can be seen in this image by comparing the 2012 sea ice levels with the yellow outline, which in the Arctic image represents average sea ice minimum extent from 1979 through 2010 and in the Antarctic image shows the median sea ice extent in September from 1979 to 2000. Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center Scientific Visualization Studio and NASA Earth Observatory/ Jesse Allen

The steady and dramatic decline in the sea ice cover of the Arctic Ocean over the last three decades has become a focus of media and public attention. At the opposite end of the Earth, however, something more complex is happening.

A new NASA study shows that from 1978 to 2010 the total extent of surrounding Antarctica in the Southern Ocean grew by roughly 6,600 square miles every year, an area larger than the state of Connecticut. And previous research by the same authors indicates that this rate of increase has recently accelerated, up from an average rate of almost 4,300 square miles per year from 1978 to 2006.

"There's been an overall increase in the sea ice cover in the Antarctic, which is the opposite of what is happening in the Arctic," said lead author Claire Parkinson, a with NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. "However, this growth rate is not nearly as large as the decrease in the Arctic."

The Earth's poles have very different geographies. The is surrounded by North America, Greenland and Eurasia. These large landmasses trap most of the sea ice, which builds up and retreats with each yearly freeze-and-melt cycle. But a large fraction of the older, thicker has disappeared over the last three decades. The shrinking summer ice cover has exposed dark that absorbs sunlight and warms up, leading to more ice loss.

On the opposite side of the planet, Antarctica is a continent circled by open waters that let sea ice expand during the winter but also offer less shelter during the melt season. Most of the Southern Ocean's frozen cover grows and retreats every year, leading to little perennial sea ice in Antarctica.

Using passive-microwave data from NASA's Nimbus 7 satellite and several Department of Defense , Parkinson and colleague Don Cavalieri showed that sea ice changes were not uniform around Antarctica. Most of the growth from 1978 to 2010 occurred in the Ross Sea, which gained a little under 5,300 square miles of sea ice per year, with more modest increases in the Weddell Sea and Indian Ocean. At the same time, the region of the Bellingshausen and Amundsen Seas lost an average of about 3,200 square miles of ice every year.

Parkinson and Cavalieri said that the mixed pattern of ice growth and ice loss around the Southern Ocean could be due to changes in atmospheric circulation. Recent research points at the depleted ozone layer over Antarctica as a possible culprit. Ozone absorbs solar energy, so a lower concentration of this molecule can lead to a cooling of the stratosphere (the layer between six and 30 miles above the Earth's surface) over Antarctica. At the same time, the temperate latitudes have been warming, and the differential in temperatures has strengthened the circumpolar winds flowing over the Ross Ice Shelf.

"Winds off the Ross Ice Shelf are getting stronger and stronger, and that causes the sea ice to be pushed off the coast, which generates areas of open water, polynyas," said Josefino Comiso, a senior scientist at NASA Goddard. "The larger the coastal polynya, the more ice it produces, because in polynyas the water is in direct contact with the very cold winter atmosphere and rapidly freezes." As the wind keeps blowing, the ice expands further to the north.

This year's winter Antarctic sea ice maximum extent, reached two weeks after the Arctic Ocean's ice cap experienced an all-time summertime low, was a record high for the satellite era of 7.49 million square miles, about 193,000 square miles more than its average maximum extent for the last three decades.

The Antarctic minimum extents, which are reached in the midst of the Antarctic summer, in February, have also slightly increased to 1.33 million square miles in 2012, or around 251,000 square miles more than the average minimum extent since 1979.

The numbers for the southernmost ocean, however, pale in comparison with the rates at which the Arctic has been losing sea ice – the extent of the ice cover of the Arctic Ocean in September 2012 was 1.32 million square miles below the average September extent from 1979 to 2000. The lost ice area is equivalent to roughly two Alaskas.

Parkinson said that the fact that some areas of the Southern Ocean are cooling and producing more sea ice does not disprove a warming climate.

"Climate does not change uniformly: The Earth is very large and the expectation definitely would be that there would be different changes in different regions of the world," Parkinson said. "That's true even if overall the system is warming." Another recent NASA study showed that Antarctic sea ice slightly thinned from 2003 to 2008, but increases in the extent of the ice balanced the loss in thickness and led to an overall volume gain.

The new research, which used laser altimetry data from the Ice, Cloud, and land Elevation Satellite (ICESat), was the first to estimate sea ice thickness for the entire from space.

Records of Antarctic sea ice thickness are much patchier than those of the Arctic, due to the logistical challenges of taking regular measurements in the fierce and frigid waters around Antarctica. The field data collection is mostly limited to research icebreakers that generally only travel there during spring and summer – so the sole means to get large-scale thickness measurements is from space.

"We have a good handle of the extent of the Antarctic sea ice, but the thickness has been the missing piece to monitor the sea ice mass balance," said Thorsten Markus, one of the authors of the study and Project Scientist for ICESat-2, a satellite mission designed to replace the now defunct ICESat. ICESat-2 is scheduled to launch in 2016. "The extent can be greater, but if the sea ice gets thinner, the volume could stay the same."

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MrVibrating
1.7 / 5 (9) Oct 23, 2012
Funny, the Sun is also displaying polar asymmetry, with activity having already peaked in the north, while the south is still climbing to solar maximum. Steven Tobias of Leeds University thinks this type of situation precedes a 'grand minimum', per the 17th century's 'little ice age'. On the other hand, Michael Proctor from Cambridge University suggests this cycle most closely resembles the weak one that ended in 1937, which was followed by a strong cycle (source: New Scientist 29/09/12).

Perhaps our cooler southern hemisphere is a direct reflection of the Sun's cooler southern hemisphere?
ValeriaT
2.6 / 5 (5) Oct 23, 2012
IMO the explanation is more prosaic and it's based on the fact, the south pole is covered with land whereas the north pole is covered with sea. The global warming increases the vertical circulation in the Earth atmosphere into account of this horizontal one because of higher temperature gradient and it makes the temperature difference between land and sea more pronounced. The Earth is still heating as a whole, because the growth of Antarctic is 5x slower, than the shrinking of the Arctic ice.
VendicarD
1 / 5 (6) Oct 23, 2012
Clearly the north pole of the sun is connected to the south pole of the earth.

It only makes sense.

"the Sun is also displaying polar asymmetry, with activity having already peaked in the north, while the south is still climbing to solar maximum." - MrVibrating
Caliban
3 / 5 (2) Oct 23, 2012


And, of course, the "rest of the story" --just in case you missed it here yesterday:

http://phys.org/n...oss.html

Howhot
2 / 5 (8) Oct 24, 2012
Actually, it's very easy to explain. ValeriaT almost gets it right. The Arctic Ocean is warmer, and is melting the sea ice from below. In the Antarctic the south polar land mass keeps warm waters from attacking the ice pack from below. However, the Antarctic is not out of the woods with respect to global warming. It's ice packs and glaciers are melting as fast as Greenland.

I've yet to hear a denier's explanation of the polar melting that isn't fruity as a nut cake.
ubavontuba
2.3 / 5 (15) Oct 24, 2012
Interestingly, the Northern Hemisphere sea Ice Area is recovering at an unusually rapid pace. It's already above 2007 and 2011 levels.

Caliban
2.1 / 5 (7) Oct 24, 2012
Interestingly, the http://arctic.atm...ive.html is recovering at an unusually rapid pace. It's already above 2007 and 2011 levels.


No, it is recovering first-year ice at a slightly faster rate, but is still WAY BELOW AVERAGE.

When will you give up with the distortion?


AndyPaul
5 / 5 (1) Oct 24, 2012
This actually sounds like a negative feedback mechanism, commonly discussed in paleoclimate research: the warming of air over the northern and southern contintents increases the moisture capacity of this air, which subsequently flows towards Antarctica. During this flow it is able to take up more moisture than before (when climate was colder) from the southern ocean (and/or Atlantic Ocean, Pacific Ocean, Indian Ocean), which in turn leads to increased precipitation (snow) on the Antarctic continent, which then leads to the growth of the contintental ice shield of Antarctica and the related increase in coastal sea-ice rather than a decrease. That would mean, that if the warming of the hemispheres continues the Antarctic ice will rather grow rather than shrink until a sudden threshold is reached, from which on the temperatures have also increased on Antarctica, and precipitation will mostly be rain.

Cheers,
Andreas
JoeBlue
1.4 / 5 (10) Oct 24, 2012
Ahh, and the speculators go nuts with their theories and negative feedback loops...

If only reality were that easy to explain. Me thinks it has more to do with specific solar activity than some ridiculous currents. The Earth is heated by the sun, not currents.
AndyPaul
5 / 5 (3) Oct 24, 2012
If only solar activity could explain everything ...
rubberman
3.3 / 5 (7) Oct 24, 2012
Ahh, and the speculators go nuts with their theories and negative feedback loops...

If only reality were that easy to explain. Me thinks it has more to do with specific solar activity than some ridiculous currents. The Earth is heated by the sun, not currents.


AndyPaul described reality almost perfectly in this situation. Those rediculous currents you speak of are the reason we have the temperate global climate that we do.

Interestingly, the http://arctic.atm...ive.html is recovering at an unusually rapid pace. It's already above 2007 and 2011 levels.


Same mechanisms for sea ice production in the arctic winter apply, my 10 year old noticed it, sorry that escapes you.

rubberman
1.8 / 5 (5) Oct 24, 2012
Interestingly, the http://arctic.atm...ive.html recently.


How does this contradict anything, both reports are based on measurement Nat.
tpb
1 / 5 (1) Oct 24, 2012
I noticed that the article was very careful to say "sea ice" and mention area and not volume.
What is the actual mass gain/loss difference?
If I remember correctly, the Antarctic has been accumulating land ice mass for decades.
triplehelix
1.7 / 5 (9) Oct 24, 2012
surely if we are warming up melting ice which traps more heat and continues the cycle this is a positive feedback system, not negative? A negative feedback system is defined as something that controls the other by presence of the initiator. More initiator = more inhibitor. These are the same people who think ice melting into water rises oceans, when it is highschool knowledge that ice is less dense and takes up more volume than water, so actually, melting ice = more dense = less volume. Also its going from in the sea, to land, again, lessening sea level in theory. Get a big bucket, put lots of ice in, put water in until its pouring out. Wait for ice to melt, should lower by a few milimetres. Now extrapolate this, and take some ice out and stick it on land in the garden, youll see another big dip in sea height. I have a 1986 paper saying where I am typing right now should be 24ft under water by 2010. In 2040 I am sure people will be reading 2012 papers and laughing at the innaccuracies.
triplehelix
1.4 / 5 (11) Oct 24, 2012
It is very frustrating that most humans are incapable of conceiving the idea to just leave some things alone. Every single discovery comes with a "stark warning" that only we can fix, if we do some inane tasks. Planets been here for 4.6 billion years. Yes some species are dying out, yes, climate is changing, is it however, significant to Earth as a whole? Do we have the capability with CO2 alone to wipe off every single form of life? No, is the simple answer. Do we have the capability to wipe out some species? Yep. Then again, Termites will kill off entire habitats of insects to grow their termite hills. We are competing for space and resources, just like every other species, the only difference is we are sentient enough to see a pattern. Unfortunately our sentiency is limited, and as such we have massive ego's and think were the cause and cure for everything. This race is massively self involved, and cant see the forest for the trees.
runrig
5 / 5 (4) Oct 24, 2012
..... These are the same people who think ice melting into water rises oceans, when it is highschool knowledge that ice is less dense and takes up more volume than water, so actually, melting ice = more dense = less volume. Also its going from in the sea, to land, again, lessening sea level in theory. Get a big bucket, put lots of ice in, put water in until its pouring out. Wait for ice to melt, should lower by a few milimetres.


Sorry this wrong - look up "Archimede's principle".Put simply..."water expands when it forms ice. If the ice is floating, it will displace an amount of water that equals the weight of the ice. So even though you have bits of ice floating up higher than the surface of the water, the level of the water will not change in the least bit as the ice melts.". Yor explantion is only true if the ice is submerged - and as sea ice floats, well...
runrig
3.4 / 5 (5) Oct 24, 2012
........... Yes some species are dying out, yes, climate is changing, is it however, significant to Earth as a whole? Do we have the capability with CO2 alone to wipe off every single form of life? No, is the simple answer.


The point is surely that AGW will significantly affect HUMAN life on this planet. AND it IS within our power to do something about it.
runrig
5 / 5 (2) Oct 24, 2012
The minimum ice extent passed, well, at the minimum in the melt /refreeze cycle. And is now refreezing as the polar night progresses to the Arctic circle. The relatively larger areal extent or open water would naturally lead to a quicker refreeze ( as measured in total area ). This is still of course very thin ice.
triplehelix
1 / 5 (10) Oct 24, 2012
..... These are the same people who think ice melting into water rises oceans, when it is highschool knowledge that ice is less dense and takes up more volume than water, so actually, melting ice = more dense = less volume. Also its going from in the sea, to land, again, lessening sea level in theory. Get a big bucket, put lots of ice in, put water in until its pouring out. Wait for ice to melt, should lower by a few milimetres.


Sorry this wrong - look up "Archimede's principle".Put simply..."water expands when it forms ice. If the ice is floating, it will displace an amount of water that equals the weight of the ice. So even though you have bits of ice floating up higher than the surface of the water, the level of the water will not change in the least bit as the ice melts.". Yor explantion is only true if the ice is submerged - and as sea ice floats, well...


Ice bergs go DEEP underwater actually. A lot of the arctic is UNDER water, not floating on top. Nice try
triplehelix
1.4 / 5 (9) Oct 24, 2012
........... Yes some species are dying out, yes, climate is changing, is it however, significant to Earth as a whole? Do we have the capability with CO2 alone to wipe off every single form of life? No, is the simple answer.


The point is surely that AGW will significantly affect HUMAN life on this planet. AND it IS within our power to do something about it.


Will it significantly affect life? Even if we take the IPCC's massively over-exxagerated claims of achieving 900ppm by 2100 (purely by human means apparently) this does not pose any massive issues. Life has survived much higher CO2 concentrations and much higher temperatures. I don't see things getting to apocalyptic levels. Don't get me wrong, I am not a denier, but the simple fact remains that their is a large conflict of interest with environmental sciences, they are the best funded these days, and the stories are getting shriller and shriller to keep the funds-a-coming
triplehelix
1 / 5 (8) Oct 24, 2012


Sorry this wrong - look up "Archimede's principle".Put simply..."water expands when it forms ice. If the ice is floating, it will displace an amount of water that equals the weight of the ice. So even though you have bits of ice floating up higher than the surface of the water, the level of the water will not change in the least bit as the ice melts.". Yor explantion is only true if the ice is submerged - and as sea ice floats, well...


Also, this is simply wrong, get a 3ft by 5ft bath, fill it up to within a few inches of the top, now get a polystyrene block same dimensions, with 4-5 inches of height, weighing in at barely a few hundred grams, push it into the water and watch the water spill out. Now plonk a 1kg weight plate into the bath, watch the water rise not much at all. Water is displaced by the physical volume of what is in it. Ice is less dense, its why ice cubes are very tightly packed in their trays, they expand. With expansion comes more volume.
runrig
4 / 5 (4) Oct 24, 2012
Ice bergs go DEEP underwater actually. A lot of the arctic is UNDER water, not floating on top.


Are you serious? From ....http://en.wikiped...ic_Ocean

The average depth of the Arctic Ocean is 1,038 m (3,406 ft). The deepest point is in the Eurasian Basin, at 5,450 m (17,880 ft).

runrig
5 / 5 (4) Oct 24, 2012

Also, this is simply wrong, get a 3ft by 5ft bath, fill it up to within a few inches of the top, now get a polystyrene block same dimensions, with 4-5 inches of height, weighing in at barely a few hundred grams, push it into the water and watch the water spill out. Now plonk a 1kg weight plate into the bath, watch the water rise not much at all. Water is displaced by the physical volume of what is in it. Ice is less dense, its why ice cubes are very tightly packed in their trays, they expand. With expansion comes more volume.


Did you read what I posted ?

I said FLOATING ice. Your explanation above refers to submerged objects. Ice has the same weight as water but less mass. As it FLOATS it displaces its own weight in water ( which is the same weight as the ice ). It therefore occupies the same space as the water that the ice displaced. Take it up with Archimedes.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 25, 2012
Interestingly, the Northern Hemisphere sea Ice Area is recovering at an unusually rapid pace. It's already above 2007 and 2011 levels. - uba
No, it is recovering first-year ice at a slightly faster rate, but is still WAY BELOW AVERAGE. - Caliban
When did I say otherwise?

When will you give up with the distortion? - Caliban
What distortion? What is it, of what I wrote, you think is not factual?

Get a grip, man.



ubavontuba
1 / 5 (8) Oct 25, 2012
The point is surely that AGW will significantly affect HUMAN life on this planet. AND it IS within our power to do something about it.
How so? Just what is it, exactly, the AGW proponents fear?
Caliban
5 / 5 (3) Oct 25, 2012
is recovering at an unusually rapid pace. It's already above 2007 and 2011 levels. - uba


When will you give up with the distortion? - Caliban


What distortion? What is it, of what I wrote, you think is not factual?


Your "unusually rapid pace" assertion. You will notice that all of the curves rebound relatively quickly after the annual minimum has been reached. You will also notice that they all tend toward the average over nearly the same time interval, as well.

This is generally taken to be an indication that the greater extent of open water following the annual minimum allows for ice to begin forming rapidly from the until recently unfrozen water.

"unusually rapid" is stretching it considerably.




yyz
4 / 5 (4) Oct 25, 2012
How science deniers view arctic sea ice decline:

http://www.skepti...2012.gif
rubberman
2.4 / 5 (5) Oct 25, 2012
Ice bergs go DEEP underwater actually. A lot of the arctic is UNDER water, not floating on top.



Is this a NotParker sock puppet?

Ice bergs come from calving glaciers bud, not sea ice. The loss of most of the thicker multi year ice is one of the contributing factors to the increasing positive feedback we're witnessing in the artic right now.
ubavontuba
1.9 / 5 (9) Oct 25, 2012
How science deniers view arctic sea ice decline:

http://www.skepti...2012.gif
LOL. That was funny.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (8) Oct 25, 2012
"unusually rapid" is stretching it considerably.
I disagree. As I stated: "It's already above 2007 and 2011 levels." And considereing how far it had to go to catch up to these years, and that it did so in just one month, I feel the speed of the recovery is certainly remarkable.

Northern Hemisphere sea Ice Area





VendicarD
4 / 5 (4) Oct 25, 2012
UbVontard seems to be blissfully unaware that the U.S. grain belt is reverting to desert.

"How so?" - UbVonTard

Such a lack of short term memory is indicative of a mental disease.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (8) Oct 25, 2012
Uba seems to be blissfully unaware that the U.S. grain belt is reverting to desert.

"How so?" - Uba

Such a lack of short term memory is indicative of a mental disease.
LOL. Vendibot appears to believe climate is measured in a single season. "Drought" apparently escapes its vocabularly.

Its short term memory appears faulty as well, as it seems to have forgotten the record precipitation from the previous year.

Howhot
4 / 5 (4) Oct 25, 2012
Ubatuba SAYS "Its short term memory"! Well maybe the dude has issues.
Caliban
4 / 5 (4) Oct 26, 2012
"unusually rapid" is stretching it considerably.


I disagree. As I stated: "It's already above 2007 and 2011 levels." And considereing how far it had to go to catch up to these years, and that it did so in just one month, I feel the speed of the recovery is certainly remarkable.


Of course you disagree.

That's all you INTEND to do. But what you are actually doing is this:

http://www.skepti...2012.gif

Assissted by your patented Retard-O-Memory.

Thanks for the link, yyz.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (9) Oct 26, 2012
But what you are actually doing is this:
I disagree. In no way am I suggesting it's made, or is making a full recovery. I'm only making the observation the current graph curve shows a particularly steep incline from a remarkable low. Are you disagreeing with this observation? Perhaps you would argue 2012 hasn't surpassed the graph inclines from 2007 and 2011?

It's quite simple. To start from such a remarkable low point and move to a higher point in a similar period of time, the accumulation of sea ice must be uniquely accelerated, during the observed rise.

How else might you explain it? Perhaps you think it's magic?

VendicarD
4 / 5 (4) Oct 26, 2012
"It's already above 2007 and 2011 levels." - UbVonTard

A thin sheet of ice covering the ocean doesn't amount to a recovery.

It just means that there hasn't been much going on up there to break it up and push the slush around.

Now go take one of your anti-psychotic tablets and go take a nap.
VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 26, 2012
UbVonTard seems to have blissfully forgotten that Drought in the U.S. grain belt has been growing in severity for the last two decades.

Self deception is a prerequisite for being a Conservative.

"LOL. Vendibot appears to believe climate is measured in a single season." - UbVonTard

He is of course, mentally diseased.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (8) Oct 28, 2012
Uba seems to have blissfully forgotten that Drought in the U.S. grain belt has been growing in severity for the last two decades.
LOL. The Vendibot is full of it. Periodic drought is normal. Crop production is booming.

Self deception is a prerequisite for being a Conservative.
So you're a Conservative chatbot, then?

Vendibot is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.
Egleton
2 / 5 (7) Oct 28, 2012
You've all got it wrong. It is the Moon. The moon is upside down in the Southern Hemisphere therefore the southern hemisphere reacts in the opposite to the North.
My goodness, but I'm clever.
VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2012
The lie... "Crop production is booming." - UbVonTard.

The most severe and extensive drought in at least 25 years is seriously affecting U.S. agriculture, with impacts on the crop and livestock sectors and with the potential to affect food prices at the retail level...

Corn

Initial expectations at planting time suggested yields averaging a record 166 bushels per acre, but deteriorating growing conditions throughout the summer led USDA to reduce yield expectations by 20 bushels per acre in July, by an additional 22.6 bushels per acre on August 10, by another 0.6 bushels per acre on September 12, and another 0.8 bushels on October 11. Yields are now forecast at 122 bushels per acre, the lowest since 1995.

http://www.ers.us...cts.aspx
VendicarD
2.8 / 5 (4) Oct 28, 2012
Correct. The moon is upside down in the southern hemisphere, and this causes the moonlight to be reflected backwards from Antarctica.

"The moon is upside down in the Southern Hemisphere therefore the southern hemisphere reacts in the opposite to the North." - Egleton

UbVonTard has a similar situation going on with his head, and this is the reason why he spray paints the top of it silver so that his thoughts are not transmitted to the moon men who are stalking him, desirous of his precious bodily fluids.

You can smell the ozone exuding from every one of his vapid and dishonest comments.
VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2012
So is desertification and death.

"Periodic drought is normal." - UbVonTard

radek
1 / 5 (5) Oct 28, 2012
Ahh, and the speculators go nuts with their theories and negative feedback loops...

If only reality were that easy to explain. Me thinks it has more to do with specific solar activity than some ridiculous currents. The Earth is heated by the sun, not currents.


I think that source of energy which "boil" our atmosphre and oceans are really underestimated. Unfortunately we don`t have sufficient data to do longterm analysis because we have to measure not sun activity but CME which are Earth directed and how much energy thier provide. For everyone who think that we are fully protected by our magnetosphere: http://phys.org/n...eve.html
Maggnus
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2012
More about "the lie" - "Crop production is booming." - UbVonTard.

http://www.post-g...-658498/

Quoting from the article:

This year's U.S. drought was the most severe since 1954, according to the Palmer Drought Index, which has measured such weather phenomena since 1895. The hot, dry conditions pushed estimates for the country's corn harvest to the lowest level in six years and the projected average cash price to an all-time high.

September was the 331th consecutive month in which temperatures worldwide topped the 20th-century average, the U.S. National Climatic Data Center said Monday. Corn futures in Chicago, which reached a record $8.49 a bushel in August, have since declined 13 percent, closing Monday at $7.325.

It would seem someone has a deliberately ignorant idea of what "booming" means.....
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 28, 2012
Vendibot lies exposed:
The most severe and extensive drought in at least 25 years is seriously affecting U.S. agriculture...

Corn
From your own source:

"•Sweet corn, eaten by humans, is distinct from field corn (used for feed) and is not being heavily affected by adverse weather at this point."

Whew! For a moment there I thought I might have to eat my shoes!

...Yields are now forecast at 122 bushels per acre, the lowest since 1995.
Scaremongering disinformation. Yield per acre is irrelevant. Total production is the relevant concern.

"...the lowest production in the United States since 2006." - USDA

And demand has been slower than expected, so prices are falling.

And the drought's been easing.

Vendibot is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.
ubavontuba
1.1 / 5 (8) Oct 28, 2012
This year's U.S. drought was the most severe since 1954,
We've had much worse.

Corn futures in Chicago, which reached a record $8.49 a bushel in August, have since declined 13 percent, closing Monday at $7.325.
Right. Prices are falling.

It would seem someone has a deliberately ignorant idea of what "booming" means.....
Hardly. It's normal for crop production to vary, and we had a particularly bad year for corn, but the overall trend is up.

Some crops are setting records.

"Spectacular Rice Yields Pushed USDA Numbers Up"

But the pathetic Chicken Little AGW alarmists forget that weather fluctuations are normal, food production variations are normal, and the world is greening. They think: "If it isn't smooth sailing all the time, the world simply must be coming to an end!"

Grow up.

baudrunner
1 / 5 (4) Oct 28, 2012
Looks like a simple heat exchange process going on. Trading melting for freezing.
Maggnus
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2012
This year's U.S. drought was the most severe since 1954,
We've had much worse.

Corn futures in Chicago, which reached a record $8.49 a bushel in August, have since declined 13 percent, closing Monday at $7.325.
Right. Prices are falling.

It would seem someone has a deliberately ignorant idea of what "booming" means.....
Hardly. It's normal for crop production to vary, and we had a particularly bad year for corn, but the http://www.nass.u...yld.asp"

But the pathetic Chicken Little AGW alarmists forget that weather fluctuations are normal, food production variations are normal, and the world is greening. They think: "If it isn't smooth sailing all the time, the world simply must be coming to an end!"

Grow up.



Cherry picking.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 28, 2012
Cherry picking.
So, talking only about corn production from one season in one region of the U.S. isn't cherry picking? How does that work?

Maggnus
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2012
So, talking only about corn production from one season in one region of the U.S. isn't cherry picking? How does that work?



Tu quoque.
VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2012
UbVonTard is correct. Cherry crops were wiped out in parts of the U.S. as well due to the last winter's non winter.

Last weekend's cold snap has caused massive tender fruit crop damage across Ontario, including in the Niagara and Hamilton area.

Cherry Avenue Farms, a pick-your-own operation in Lincoln, is bracing to lose 90 per cent of its cherry, peach, plum and apricot crops.

"The record-setting warm weather in March, followed by a few nights of below 0 degrees temperatures, have killed a significant portion of the fruit buds," said the Moyer family in a website update Friday. "There is a chance we will have no fruit at all for picking this year."

"So, talking only about corn production from one season in one region of the U.S. isn't cherry picking?" - UbVonTard
VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 28, 2012
In other words you were lying last year when you claimed that corn used for ethanol production was causing starvation in Africa.

"•Sweet corn, eaten by humans, is distinct from field corn (used for feed) and is not being heavily affected by adverse weather at this point." - UbVonTard

Poor UbVonTard. He doesn't seem capable of understanding much about how the world works. In this instance he fails to realize that corn - other than sweet corn goes into all manner of food products in the form of corn flour and starch, and is used for animal feed as well.

The dramatic reduction in U.S. corn production has of course, increasing the price of beef, pork and chicken, who are fed corn as animal feed.

Pork supply bloated by drought, feed costs: analysts

http://news.yahoo...nce.html

Poor UbVonTard. He is is suffering from a horrible mental disease.
VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 28, 2012
From UbVonTard's own reference. U.S. Corn production 2007, 13 billion bushels, 2012, 10.7 billion.

Yet he dishonestly claimed that U.S. corn production was "booming".

"...the lowest production in the United States since 2006." - USDA

UbVonTard's own reference shows that in the U.S. Corn production peaked in 2007 and has been in rapid decline ever since.

You know that someone like UbVonTard is mentally ill when they constantly post references that contradict their own stated claims.

VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 28, 2012
Corn production in the U.S. is lower today than it was in 1992.

"we had a particularly bad year for corn, but the overall trend is up." - UbVonTard

From UbVonTard's own source...

1992 130 Bushels per acre.
2012 122 Bushels per acre.

U.S. bread prices have never been higher.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
Tu quoque.
Not even close. It was sarcasm.

You made an accusation. It wasn't about your position. I'm only discrediting your accusation ...the implication being that my information covered decades of time and was global in scope, whereas yours is obviously cherry picked.

Try again.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
UbVonTard is correct. Cherry crops were wiped out in parts of the U.S. as well due to the last winter's non winter.

Last weekend's cold snap has caused massive tender fruit crop damage across Ontario, including in the Niagara and Hamilton area.

Cherry Avenue Farms, a pick-your-own operation in Lincoln, is bracing to lose 90 per cent of its cherry, peach, plum and apricot crops.

"The record-setting warm weather in March, followed by a few nights of below 0 degrees temperatures, have killed a significant portion of the fruit buds," said the Moyer family in a website update Friday. "There is a chance we will have no fruit at all for picking this year."

"So, talking only about corn production from one season in one region of the U.S. isn't cherry picking?" - Uba
LOL! The Vendibot totally misinterprets the topic (chatbots have problems with continuity). I love it.

Vendibot is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
In other words you were lying last year when you claimed that corn used for ethanol production was causing starvation in Africa.
LOL. When did I supposedly make that claim?

"•Sweet corn, eaten by humans, is distinct from field corn (used for feed) and is not being heavily affected by adverse weather at this point." - Uba
LOL. The Vendibot has misattributed a passage from his own reference to me. What a buffoon!

Poor Uba. He doesn't seem capable of understanding much about how the world works. In this instance he fails to realize that corn - other than sweet corn goes into all manner of food products in the form of corn flour and starch, and is used for animal feed as well.
Poor Vendibot. He apparently thinks there's no kernel of corn left in the world. LOL.

The dramatic reduction in U.S. corn production has of course, increasing the price of beef, pork and chicken, who are fed corn as animal feed.
LOL. Currently, meat prices are falling.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
Pork supply bloated by drought, feed costs: analysts

http://news.yahoo...nce.html

Poor Uba. He is is suffering from a horrible mental disease.
Poor Vendibot. It doesn't know what it means to have an oversupply in a market economy.

"beef and pork prices have fallen moderately." - USDA

Vendibot is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
From Uba's own reference. U.S. Corn production 2007, 13 billion bushels, 2012, 10.7 billion.

Yet he dishonestly claimed that U.S. corn production was "booming".
Moron chatbot. One down season doesn't end a boom.

"...the lowest production in the United States since 2006." - USDA

Uba's own reference shows that in the U.S. Corn production peaked in 2007 and has been in rapid decline ever since.
LOL. Vendibot's lie exposed:

"U.S. farmers produced the largest corn and soybean crops on record in 2009. ...13.2 billion bushels, 1 percent above the previous record of 13 billion bushels set in 2007" - USDA

You know that someone like Uba is mentally ill when they constantly post references that contradict their own stated claims.
You know that something like Vendibot is a chatbot when it can't even get basic information right.

Does the Vendibot even know what "it's" means yet? LOL!

VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2012
Lowest crop yields since 1992 according to the very sources that UbVonTard provided.

"Moron chatbot. One down season doesn't end a boom." - UbVonTard

You just know that when someone like UbVonTard provide as sources of information, websites that contradict their own claims, that you are dealing with someone with a mental disease.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
Corn production in the U.S. is lower today than it was in 1992.
Liar. Corn production in 1992 was 240.719 million metric tonnes, and 2012 was is expected to be 272.488 million metric tons.

From Uba's own source...

1992 130 Bushels per acre.
2012 122 Bushels per acre.
This is a blatant lie. None of my sources say this, and an internet search doesn't reveal this either. Provide the source.

U.S. bread prices have never been higher.
Another Venibot lie. Bread prices are falling, so are most cereal grain products.

"Cereal and bakery product prices decreased 0.4 percent from August to September" - USDA

Vendibot just can't get anything right.

Vendibot is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.

VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2012
Regarding corn, UbVonTard initially claimed...

"...the lowest production in the United States since 2006." - USDA

And provided this link...

http://usda01.lib...2012.pdf

On page 9 of that link, there is a graph showing corn production.

It shows U.S. corn production peaking in 2007 and the trend has been in rapid decline since that time.

Now UbVonTard claims "U.S. farmers produced the largest corn and soybean crops on record in 2009. .." - changing his tune.

Poor UbVonTard.

He just can't keep his lies straight.

Corn Production in 2012 was 10.7 billion bushels, and the year before 12.3 and the year before that 12.4.

In 2008 it was 12.1 billion bushels.

Poor mentally diseased UbVonTard.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
Lowest crop yields since 1992 according to the very sources that UbVonTard provided.
Vendibot is lying.

You just know that when someone like Uba provide as sources of information, websites that contradict their own claims, that you are dealing with someone with a mental disease.
You just know when a chatbot like Vendibot consistently lies about data, that the truth is irrelevant to its programmers ...proving AGW is a scam.

Vendibot is designed to mislead and lie. It is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.
VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2012
"Corn production in the U.S. is lower today than it was in 1992." - me

"Liar" - UbVonTard

Corn yields have not been as low as this year since 1992.

http://www.nass.u...nyld.asp

America's cropland is drying up, and reverting to desert.
VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2012
"Vendibot is lying." - UbVonTard

Yet the data shows that UbVonTard is the one who is lying.

http://www.nass.u...nyld.asp

0.1'C warming since 1997.

http://www.woodfo...97/trend
VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2012
"Cereal and bakery product prices decreased 0.4 percent from August to September" - UbVonTard

Ya, they have gone from 2.50 a loaf to 2.49.

Wheat price
May 2012, 264.26
Sept 2012, 353.42

Poor UbVonTard. He just can't stop misrepresenting reality.

It is proof that he suffers from a delusional mind.

VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2012
Having been exposed yet again as a chronic liar. UbVonTard tries to switch the topic from the massive U.S. corn crop failure to the less massive crop failure in Soybeans.

"U.S. farmers produced the largest corn and soybean crops on record in 2009. ...13.2 billion bushels" - UbVonTard

Cherry Picking is UbVonTard's preferred method of lying.

Meanwhile the U.S. grain belt continues to revert to desert.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (6) Oct 29, 2012
Regarding corn, Uba initially claimed...

"...the lowest production in the United States since 2006." - USDA

And provided this link...

http://usda01.lib...2012.pdf

On page 9 of that link, there is a graph showing corn production.

It shows U.S. corn production peaking in 2007 and the trend has been in rapid decline since that time.
LOL! What a moron! The peak production year is clearly 2009. LOL!

Now Uba claims "U.S. farmers produced the largest corn and soybean crops on record in 2009. .." - changing his tune.
LOL. You're only proving how stupid you are.

Poor Uba.

He just can't keep his lies straight.
Poor Vendibot has no eyes.

Corn Production in 2012 was 10.7 billion bushels, and the year before 12.3 and the year before that 12.4.

In 2008 it was 12.1 billion bushels.
Why'd you skip 2009? (hint: 13.1 billion bushels)

Poor brainless chatbot proves again, AGW is a pack of lies.

VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2012
Because there is currently a glut of pork and beef on the market due to farmers slaughtering their cattle due to the high cost of feed corn.

"beef and pork prices have fallen moderately." - UbVonTard

Ranchers Send Cows to Slaughter as Drought Sears Pasture

http://www.bloomb...ure.html

For the next several years, as a result of the massive cull of American cattle, American beef and pork will need to be imported to a greater degree, thus increasing prices, and increasing the U.S. trade deficit.

The delusional like UbVonTard deny that this will happen.
VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2012
U.S. production peaked in 2007 at just over 13 billion bushels according to UbVonTard's own links.

Current production is Corn Production in 2012 was 10.7 billion bushels, and the year before 12.3 and the year before that 12.4.

In 2008 it was 12.1 billion bushels.

"LOL! What a moron! The peak production year is clearly 2009. LOL!" - UbVonTard

Poor UbVonTard. It is living in a Fools Paradise.

Corn Yields are now lower than they were in 1992, and have been falling for years.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
"Corn production in the U.S. is lower today than it was in 1992." - me

"Liar" - Uba

Corn yields have not been as low as this year since 1992.
LOL. Vendibot can't even remember his own content! Earlier, he claimed it was 1995. Even so, yields per acre are irrelevant. Total production is what matters.

America's cropland is drying up, and reverting to desert.
LOL. Vendibot thinks one dry season makes a desert. So, what does one rainy season make? ...a swamp? ...a lake? ...an ocean? LOL!

Vendibot is designed to mislead and lie. It is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.

VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2012
In America there is decreasing production with decreasing yields during a period where more corn crop land is in production.

"yields per acre are irrelevant. " - UbVonTard

The downward trend will continue as the globe continues to warm and the American heartland reverts to desert.

Poor UbVonTard. Delusional Republican Borrowing and spending to increase government revenue isn't enough delusion for him. He feels a need to cast his delusion over all aspects of reality.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
"Vendibot is lying." - Uba

Yet the data shows that Uba is the one who is lying.

http://www.nass.u...nyld.asp]http://www.nass.u...nyld.asp[/url]
Ha! Ha! Ha! Vendibot still can't see the peak from 2009. What a riot!

0.1'C warming since 1997.

http://www.nass.u...nyld.asp]http://www.nass.u...nyld.asp[/url]
LOL. No Global warming for at least 11 years. LOL.

Vendibot is designed to mislead and lie. It is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (6) Oct 29, 2012
"Cereal and bakery product prices decreased 0.4 percent from August to September" - Uba

Ya, they have gone from 2.50 a loaf to 2.49.
All you're doing is admitting you lied the first time about bread prices.

Wheat price
May 2012, 264.26
Sept 2012, 353.42
So now we're all of a sudden talking about wheat? LOL. Vendbot can't stay on topic.

Vendibot is designed to mislead and lie. It is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.

AGW proponents everywhere, should be ashamed.

VendicarD
3.7 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2012
0.5'C warming since 2000

http://www.woodfo....2/trend

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
Having been exposed yet again as a chronic liar. Uba tries to switch the topic from the massive U.S. corn crop failure to the less massive crop failure in Soybeans.

"U.S. farmers produced the largest corn and soybean crops on record in 2009. ...13.2 billion bushels" - Uba
What are you talking about. This was in regard to a bumper production year, you seem to miss, entirely . The 13.2 billion bushels number referred only to corn. It was a record.

Vendibot is designed to mislead and lie. It is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.

AGW proponents everywhere, should be ashamed.

VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2012
Once again UbVonTard confuses short term fluctuations with longer term trends.

"All you're doing is admitting you lied the first time about bread prices." - UbVonTard

It is his primary method of lying.

These increases will continue as the U.S. grain belt continues it's conversion to desert.

Global Temps up 0.28'c over the last 20 years.

http://www.woodfo...92/trend
VendicarD
3 / 5 (2) Oct 29, 2012
"What are you talking about. " - UbVonTard

Poor UbVonTard. It can't even recognize his own words, and then claims that they don't make any sense.

He is correct on that point.

"This was in regard to a bumper production year" - UbVonTard

And by UbVonTards own sources of information, U.S. grain production is rapidly declining.

Yet he foolishly claims the exact opposite.

Lying is his way of life, as it is the way of life of every conservative.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (6) Oct 29, 2012
Because there is currently a glut of pork and beef on the market due to farmers slaughtering their cattle due to the high cost of feed corn.

"beef and pork prices have fallen moderately." - Uba
All you're doing is admitting you lied the first time about meat prices.

Ranchers Send Cows to Slaughter as Drought Sears Pasture

http://www.bloomb...ure.html

For the next several years, as a result of the massive cull of American cattle, American beef and pork will need to be imported to a greater degree, thus increasing prices, and increasing the U.S. trade deficit.
Uh, they have this new fangled thing called, "cold storage."

Americans produce so much meat, we're an exporter, not an importer. At worst, this means we'll have a bit less to export.

Vendibot is designed to mislead and lie. It is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
U.S. production peaked in 2007 at just over 13 billion bushels according to Uba's own links.

Current production is Corn Production in 2012 was 10.7 billion bushels, and the year before 12.3 and the year before that 12.4.

In 2008 it was 12.1 billion bushels.

"LOL! What a moron! The peak production year is clearly 2009. LOL!" - Uba

Poor Uba. It is living in a Fools Paradise.

Corn Yields are now lower than they were in 1992, and have been falling for years.
Lies, lies, lies. That's all Vendibot has now. Anyone supporting this moronic chatbot should be ashamed.

Unplug it.

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
In America there is decreasing production with decreasing yields during a period where more corn crop land is in production.

"yields per acre are irrelevant. " - Uba

The downward trend will continue as the globe continues to warm and the American heartland reverts to desert.
So, 2009 was before global warming?

What a riot. Vendibot doesn't know the drought has eased.

Vendibot is designed to mislead and lie. It is clearly an inferior program. I suspect it's a highschool lab assignment.

AGW proponents everywhere, should be ashamed.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
0.5'C warming since 2000
Idiot. That's less than .05 degrees.

No Global warming, at all, in nearly 12 years:

http://www.woodfo....8/trend

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
Once again Uba confuses short term fluctuations with longer term trends.
Idiot. Bread prices don't even keep up with inflation. They're only up 1% since a year ago.

"All you're doing is admitting you lied the first time about bread prices." - Uba

These increases will continue as the U.S. grain belt continues it's conversion to desert.
LOL. Once again Vendibot confuses short term fluctuations with longer term trends. LOL.

Global Temps up 0.28'c over the last 20 years.
No global warming in almost 12 years:

http://www.woodfo....8/trend

ubavontuba
1 / 5 (7) Oct 29, 2012
"What are you talking about." - Uba

Poor Uba. He can't even recognize his own words, and then claims that they don't make any sense.
Vendibot can't understand plain English. Does it even know what "it's" means, yet?

And by Uba's own sources of information, U.S. grain production is rapidly declining.

Yet he foolishly claims the exact opposite.
LOL. Once again Vendibot confuses short term fluctuations with longer term trends. LOL

runrig
5 / 5 (3) Oct 29, 2012
0.5'C warming since 2000
Idiot. That's less than .05 degrees.

No Global warming, at all, in nearly 12 years:


http://forum.slow...3744414;
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (8) Oct 29, 2012
No Global warming, at all, in nearly 12 years:

http://www.woodfo....8/trend


http://forum.slow...3744414;
Yeah, I've analyzed this before. They used BEST data (which really isn't the "best" data). In other datasets, most of these steps disappear, or are much shorter.

The longest step (not in the current period) is only 8 years long. Whereas the current period is at least 11 years long, and as much as 16 (depending on the dataset used) ...thereby suggesting this period is dissimilar.

And, it's like flipping a coin. Just because it comes up heads a bunch of times in the row, doesn't mean it will do so again, on the next flip.

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