Ancient Bethlehem seal unearthed in Jerusalem

May 23, 2012
In this photo made available, Wednesday, May 22, 2012 by Israel's Antiquities Authority, shows a detail of a seal bearing the name "Bethlehem" in ancient Hebrew script. The Israel Antiquities Authority says archeologists digging at a Jerusalem site have found the oldest artifact that bears the inscription of Bethlehem _ a 2,700 years old seal with the name of Jesus' traditional birthplace. The clay seal, or bulla, was found in a Jerusalem dig. The seal is 1.5 centimeters (0.59 inches) in diameter and was most likely used to stamp tax shipments said Eli Shukron, the authority's director of excavations. (AP Photo/Clara Amit, courtesy of the Israel Antiquities Authority)

Israeli archaeologists have discovered a 2,700-year-old seal that bears the inscription "Bethlehem," the Israel Antiquities Authority announced Wednesday, in what experts believe to be the oldest artifact with the name of Jesus' traditional birthplace.

The tiny clay seal's existence and age provide vivid evidence that Bethlehem was not just the name of a fabled biblical town, but also a bustling place of trade linked to the nearby city of Jerusalem, said.

Eli Shukron, the authority's director of excavations, said the find was significant because it is the first time the name "Bethlehem" appears outside of a biblical text from that period.

Shukron said the seal, 1.5 centimeters (0.59 inches) in diameter, dates back to the period of the first biblical , between the eighth and seventh century B.C., at a time when Jewish kings reigned over the ancient kingdom of Judah and 700 years before Jesus was born.

The seal was written in script from the same time. Pottery found nearby also dated back to the same period, he said.

Shmuel Achituv, an expert in ancient scripts at Israel's Ben-Gurion University who did not participate in the dig, said the discovery was the oldest reference to Bethlehem ever found outside of the Bible. Apart from the seal, the other mentions of Bethlehem, Achituv said, "are only in the Bible."

The stamp, also known as "fiscal bulla," was likely used to seal an administrative tax document, sent from Bethlehem to Jerusalem, the seat of Jewish power at the time.

It was found as archaeologists sifted through mounds of dirt they had dug up in an outside Jerusalem's Old .

Shukron said the first line most likely read "Beshava'at" — or "in the seventh" — most likely the year of the reign of a king. The second line, he said, has the crumbling letters of the word "Bethlehem." The third line carried one letter, a "ch" which Shukron said was the last letter of the Hebrew work for king, "melech."

Hebrew words often do not have vowels, which are understood from the context, making several interpretations of the same word plausible. Some of the letters are crumbled, or were wiped away. Three experts interviewed by the AP, one involved in the text and two independents, concurred the seal says Bethlehem.

There are only some 40 other existing of this kind from the first Jewish Temple period, said Achituv, making this a significant find, both because such seals are rare, and because this is the first to mention Bethlehem.

The dig itself has raised controversy.

It is being underwritten by an extreme-right wing Jewish organization that seeks to populate the crowded Palestinian neighborhood of Silwan with Jewish settlers, arguing that they have ancient links to the area. The dig is being undertaken in a national park in the area of Silwan, known to Jews as "the City of David."

Shukron said the seal was found some months ago, but they needed time to confirm the identity of the .

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verkle
1.2 / 5 (25) May 23, 2012
This find is not amazing to me, but rather expected. Archeologists have time and time again verified the amazing accuracy of the Bible.

But then why does the article have to preface Jesus' birthplace with "traditional"? I know some people will disagree with this statement, but there is more historical proof of Jesus's birth than any true biological evolution, yet evolution is rarely prefaced with words like "supposed" (it is a bad theory at best).

Skepticus
1.8 / 5 (10) May 23, 2012
I can't wait for them to dig up the map of israel!
_ilbud
3.6 / 5 (9) May 24, 2012
What has this ridiculous crap got to do with Physics? It just attracts dimwits like verkl and his hilarious lies.
foofighter
2.6 / 5 (5) May 24, 2012
jesus wasn't born in bethlehem. his birthplace was moved there by the NT writers in order to "fulfill" biblical prophecy, like shooting a target and painting a bullseye around it.
zielwolf
4.6 / 5 (9) May 24, 2012
@ verkle: sure. And I guess the neat chronological ordering of the fossil record and the fact starlight comes from millions and billions of light years away is all just an illusion made by God to "look that way". Just like the Bible is a science text and I saw pigs fly today. So what if I was hallucinating? It makes no difference. God just made it look that way.
perrycomo
2.8 / 5 (11) May 24, 2012
ilbutt it has to do with science . Physorg is about other sciences too , look at the right side at top of the page there you can find other sciences .
PhotonX
3.7 / 5 (6) May 24, 2012
What has this ridiculous crap got to do with Physics? It just attracts dimwits like verkl and his hilarious lies.
It's in the Archaeology & Fossils section, just like it's supposed to be.
.
I'm just wondering if we will be visited by the likes of kevintrs saying "How do you know? Were you there?.
I know some people will disagree with this statement, but there is more historical proof of Jesus's birth than any true biological evolution...
All right, I guess I'm one of the disbelievers. There is almost no historical evidence (not proof) of Jesus' existence other than the New Testament and a possibly forged note by Josephus.
kevinrtrs
1.7 / 5 (17) May 24, 2012
jesus wasn't born in bethlehem. his birthplace was moved there by the NT writers in order to "fulfill" biblical prophecy, like shooting a target and painting a bullseye around it.

Of course you know this, HOW? What documentation do you have that has the true birthplace of Jesus? Please be kind enough to share it with us. Why keep it all to yourself?
kevinrtrs
1.3 / 5 (16) May 24, 2012
All right, I guess I'm one of the disbelievers. There is almost no historical evidence (not proof) of Jesus' existence other than the New Testament and a possibly forged note by Josephus.

Go and speak to the curators of the British Museum and convince them they are in possession of forgeries claiming to be the new testament.

Anarrandir
3.7 / 5 (7) May 24, 2012
Of course you know this, HOW? What documentation do you have that has the true birthplace of Jesus? Please be kind enough to share it with us. Why keep it all to yourself?


The position is loosely this: The prophecy said the messiah must be born of David's line in David's town - which means he must be born in Bethlehem. Jesus of Nazareth is well known to be born in Nazareth. In order to get him there, a huge fabrication is undertaken - a census is proposed. No such census ever took place. None of the story of the nativity is true in any detail (and the Gospels don't even agree among themselves), but the effort of the fabrication lends credibility to the claim that Jesus existed...or else why go to all the trouble in the first place?
Anorion
2 / 5 (4) May 24, 2012
even IF a MAN called Jesus or Joshua or Jeshua or whatever, existed and even IF a town called Bethlehem existed at that time , that do NOT mean that, that Jesus dude was from there.
and even IF he was from there, that still do NOT mean that bible events are true, and not just ancient myths and storys so deformed from being repeated during decades and centurys that they have no more than 1% in common from what really happened.
and even IF we PRESUME that he existed and was from that town, that still do NOT mean that he had some supernatural magic powers and was son of some hypothetical god or spirit or whatever.
and people should stop read those so called holy books literally, reading bible literally is like reading literally La Fontaine's Fables. or believing that Lord of the Rings is history and description of real event.
flashgordon
2.5 / 5 (8) May 24, 2012
This could be an interesting find if true; but, even if true, it doesn't mean that Jesus Christ's existence has been proven true. Bethlehem as a town during the life of Jesus has been known to be a problem for New Testament archaeology. This seal is dated seven hundred years before the supposed life of Jesus Christ(who is remarkably similar to many sungods before him - osiris, mithras, dionysius; born on December 25th equinox, twelve followers or things he does, turns water into wine, walks on water as does the suns reflection, born of a virgin/constellation of virgo).

Anybody who thinks this proves Jesus Christ's existence doesn't know of the issues involved.(not to mention isn't taking note of the dating of this archaeological find) This is honestly the most interesting and biblical archaeologiallly legit article Physorog has ever posted!
foofighter
2.3 / 5 (6) May 24, 2012
when the prophet said from you bethlehem will come a ruler of israel it meant from david's line. the literal location of being born in bethlehem wasn't important, because the prophet was using poetic language. maybe jesus was really born of joseph and mary and thus was from david's line, depending on which contradictory genealogy you follow. too bad for christians, when the virgin birth story was made up, that cut the line between david and jesus, lol. the fact that the gospel writers were so literal in their forcing jesus to fulfill prophecy takes the cat out of the bag. kevinrtrs i dont need documentation - the analysis of scripture reveals the abuse of the OT by NT writers to make jesus fulfill prophesy. like the virgin birth. isaiah 7 is clearly talking about a kid in ahaz's time which will signal the downfall of his two enemies, rezin and pekah. but take any verse, rip it out of context, and then surely there will be a way to apply it to jesus, or elvis, or anyone.
foofighter
2.3 / 5 (6) May 24, 2012
to be fair, christians aren't the only ones guilty of abusing scripture to suit their ends. modern day judaism, which is very different from the religion of ancient israel, is based on the rabbinic tradition. the rabbinic approach to the bible rapes scripture to create the myth of an oral law given to Israel at Mt. Sinai in addition to the Torah and Ten Commandments that only the jews have secret access to. these silly methods of rabbinic exegesis (on par with the silly jesus prophecy fulfillment) attempt to justify everything the rabbis added to the scriptures, in much the same way that the gospel writers raped scripture to support the NT.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (15) May 24, 2012
Archeologists have time and time again verified the amazing accuracy of the Bible.
They have time and again verified that there were no 2M jews in goshen, no exodus through egypt-occupied sinai and palestine, no genocidal joshuan rampage, no great solomonic/davidic kingdoms, etc.

You would know this if you knew any archeology whatsoever. STOP SPREADING LIES. It is immoral.
Go and speak to the curators of the British Museum and convince them they are in possession of forgeries claiming to be the new testament.
As you know (in your heart) your novel is not reliable evidence for anything real. And as it is the ONLY source at all for info on jesus and his merry men, we can discount the myth.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.7 / 5 (11) May 24, 2012
But then why does the article have to preface Jesus' birthplace with "traditional"? I know some people will disagree with this statement, but there is more historical proof of Jesus's birth than any true biological evolution
According to religionists, god created both the bible and the world. The bible does not accurately describe the world at all. What are we to conclude from this? There is absolutely NO evidence of jesus birth apart from the bible.

"Modern scholars question whether Jesus was born in Bethlehem, seeing the biblical stories not as historical accounts but as symbolic narratives invented to present the birth of Jesus as fulfillment of prophecy and imply a connection to the lineage of King David." wiki

-Obviously. Further, there is more than 1 bethlehem.

"archaeologist Aviram Oshri points to an ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE of the settlement of Bethlehem near Jerusalem at the time when Jesus was born, and postulates that Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Galilee."

-Or not.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (13) May 24, 2012
In addition, bethlehem means 'house of bread' which allows for further possible interpretations of the seal.

"Jesus' mother, the Virgin Mary is the constellation Virgo, which in Latin means virgin. Virgo is also referred to as the House of Bread, and the represents of virgin holding a sheaf of wheat."

-This, along with dozens of other direct astrological corrolaries makes it clear the bible legends are no doubt based on the zodiac.
http://en.wikiped...he_Bible
http://www.youtub...pp_video

-jesus is just another sungod.
El_Nose
3 / 5 (6) May 24, 2012
@ - true historians and scientists

Do you doubt 'Alexander the Great' existed ?? -- The oldest document written on him appears more than 400 years after his death. Yet, this is considered 'close enough' to authenticate his life. Because he does not exist in history before that documents detail of his life. It is also considered fairly accurate.

Do you believe there was a Queen of Sheba? what is your evidence?

Now examine the figure Jesus. Documents appear within 100 years of his death. From multiple sources, not all of which agree, but most have a lot of overlapping information.

This is not submitted as proof -- Just a tool of reasoning used by educated scholars. The Bible has proven to be one of the most accurate accounts of ancient times in the world, over and over again. You don't have to believe in the religion, but as a historical document it stands pretty high.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (12) May 24, 2012
Now examine the figure Jesus. Documents appear within 100 years of his death. From multiple sources, not all of which agree, but most have a lot of overlapping information.
NONE of which occur outside the bible.
This is not submitted as proof -- Just a tool of reasoning used by educated scholars.
Educated religionist scholars. Non-religious scholars generally take more rational positions.
You don't have to believe in the religion, but as a historical document it stands pretty high.
And you simply declaring this does not make it so.

No exodus, No joshuan rampage, No solomon or david kingdoms, No flood. NO mention of jesus by anyone outside of the bible. The josephus reference has been thoroughly discounted as an adulteration. A forgery.

And as we see, most likely NO BETHLEHEM.
The Bible has proven to be one of the most accurate accounts of ancient times in the world, over and over again.
So based on these FACTS how can you possibly make a statement like this?
kaasinees
1.4 / 5 (11) May 24, 2012
Jezus was a common name in those days, and so is the name in mexico.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (12) May 24, 2012
Do you doubt 'Alexander the Great' existed ??
Many independent sources from europe and asia.
http://www.livius...z1b.html

-But who knows? Whether or not they existed casts no light whatsoever on whether the god of love ever did. As I say, evidence for him is totally lacking.
flashgordon
2.6 / 5 (10) May 24, 2012
@ - true historians and scientists

Do you doubt 'Alexander the Great' existed ?? .


Clearly, those who believe in Jesus Christ don't have a good scientific sense(including those scientists who believe in Jesus christ). Alexander the Great was considered a man; jesus christ was mythology.

Do you believe aliens created the Pyramids to?
freethinking
1 / 5 (10) May 26, 2012
It's funny that the same people who don't believe that a man named Jesus lived 2000 years ago, who performed what seemed like miracles, who died on a cross, and who many people believe rose from the dead, existed, yet believe progressives leaders who are caught regularly lying, believe in evolution though they (nor anyone) has seen anything evolve.

A person who says the man Jesus never existed, shows more ignorance than a follower of Al Gore or even Obama.
roboferret
3.7 / 5 (6) May 27, 2012
I can imagine someone digging up a copy of the New York Times in 1000 years time and saying "Hey, if New York existed, that means... SPIDERMAN was real!11!OMG!"
The Gospels can't even agree where Mary and Jospeph were from. Matthew has them starting in Bethlehem, only moving to Nazareth because they were too scared to return after fleeing to Egypt, while Luke has the fanciful census story - and who was Joseph's father again?
As someone managed to drag up evolution again, it's no only real, its a mathematical certainty due to self organised criticality, in which complexity increases in non-linear dynamical systems - such as reproduction.
Pleases_Jesus
1.5 / 5 (8) May 28, 2012
Oh my aching head... you people really need to get a life. no really you need to get a life. Look i know all of you are intellectuals and that makes you special. I like roboferret the best with his " audio vibratory physiomolecular chemical transport device, way to go ferret boy, if you can't come up with real thruth just confuse them with words. All of you against the accuacy of the bible, i got one for you... Give me one other book in history composed of 66 books, written by 44 authors over 1600 years, among these authors were kings, warriors, shepherds, poets and a fisherman, but still the most unified book in the world, containering a progressive revelation of the message of God without any contradictions! Tell me how that is done without the divine inspiration of God on those authors. And then you guys are talking about prepositioning to fulfill prophecies, ok lets just say they did fake bethlehem, how do you explain the others, like he would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver,
Pleases_Jesus
1 / 5 (8) May 28, 2012
or he would ride into town on a colt, or people would gamble for his clothes, or he would be crucified with theives, or his hands and feet would be pierced or his side would be pierced or none of his bones would be broken or he would be buried in a rich mans tomb. Don't you see, if Jesus were NOT the messiah, the true and living God, and just wanted all this to happen to fulfill the acient prophesies it would have been impossible for him to pull it all off, these are just a few of the hundreds of prophesies Jesus fulfilled. He's the real deal, the bible is the real deal. All of you seem smart and know what the probabilities of all this happening by chance are, even conservatively, its like one in million times a billion times a million. for just 17 of the prophesies he fulfilled to have all come true by chance. And then there is the scientic proof within the bible itself, The Law of Conservation of Energy, The Law of Entropy, The Hydrological Cycle...All of this is in the bible centuri
Pleases_Jesus
1 / 5 (8) May 28, 2012
centuries before they were discovered. Don't get me started on the archiological evidence... And lastly, the kicker, the one that now can just not be denied. ELS Equal Letter Sequencing, so after all that you still don't believe God put a beautiful tapestry of words behind the original text of the bible, not only proving it was divinely written, but not even one letter from the original text could have been changed or ELS would not have worked. If you don't know what ELS is, I highly suggest you look into it. without knowing about it and commenting like you guys do about the validity of the bible is like buying a vaccum and not reading the instructions and then telling everyone you know for a fact that damn thing is to hang a coat on, your sure of it... If you read the bible you will find God it there, i promise you. He has plans for you and loves you and at the end of the day God created this world solely so we would choose to love him back.
Pleases_Jesus
1 / 5 (7) May 28, 2012
Last Thing: The Signature of God by Grant R. Jeffrey. If you read this book and still don't believe the bible was divinely written, you might want to read it again. :) God Bless.
roboferret
3 / 5 (4) May 29, 2012
Oh my aching head... you people really need to get a life. no really you need to get a life. Look i know all of you are intellectuals and that makes you special. I like roboferret the best

Why thankyou!

with his " audio vibratory physiomolecular chemical transport device, way to go ferret boy,


wait, say what?

if you can't come up with real thruth just confuse them with words.


I'm sorry if the science is too hard for you. This is a science website though, so grab a dictionary and hold on.
roboferret
3.9 / 5 (7) May 29, 2012
All of you against the accuacy of the bible, i got one for you... Give me one other book in history composed of 66 books, written by 44 authors over 1600 years, among these authors were kings, warriors, shepherds, poets and a fisherman, but still the most unified book in the world, containering a progressive revelation of the message of God without any contradictions! Tell me how that is done without the divine inspiration of God on those authors. And then you guys are talking about prepositioning to fulfill prophecies, ok lets just say they did fake bethlehem, how do you explain the others, like he would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver


If you had even bothered to investigate (as I have) it has been selectively edited over the course of a millennium. Books were chosen to fit the Christian agenda. Plenty more were disregarded (did you know the book of Enoch is quoted by Jesus, but never made it into the bible?) Other portions were forged and added later.
roboferret
3.9 / 5 (7) May 29, 2012

blah blah hoyic... And then there is the scientic proof within the bible itself, The Law of Conservation of Energy, The Law of Entropy, The Hydrological Cycle...All of this is in the


And the angel spake unto Abraham and said "the energy available to do work in a closed system decreases over time" -oh wait, are you just selectively interpreting a book that claims the Earth has four corners and is covered by a giant dome embedded in stars?
roboferret
4.3 / 5 (6) May 29, 2012
And lastly, the kicker, the one that now can just not be denied.

No. There, I denied it. I even have reasons. If that was the kicker, it went well wide of the posts.


ELS Equal Letter Sequencing, so after all that you still don't believe God put a beautiful tapestry of words behind the original text of the bible, not only proving it was divinely written, but not even one letter from the original text could have been changed or ELS would not have worked.

Wrong. even the most ancient texts of the bible we have (the masorectic texts and the dead sea scrolls) differ considerably

If you don't know what ELS is, I highly suggest you look into it. without knowing about it and commenting like you guys do about the validity of the bible is like buying a vaccum and not reading the instructions and then telling everyone you know for a fact that damn thing is to hang a coat on, your sure of it.


Otherwise known as "The Bible Code" ELS is a fraud.
kaasinees
1.8 / 5 (10) May 29, 2012
The bible is just an ancient political book, why do people still talk about it ? It is completely irrelevant to this day.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) May 29, 2012
still the most unified book in the world, containering a progressive revelation of the message of God without any contradictions!
Your first misconception/lie. The bible is FULL of disunity and contradiction.
Tell me how that is done without the divine inspiration of God on those authors.
Your 2nd misconception/lie falsely derived from your first.
like he would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver
Uh a fictitious factoid from a work of fiction?
Don't you see, if Jesus were NOT the messiah, the true and living God, and just wanted all this to happen to fulfill the acient prophesies
Dont you see? The fable was written to conform to the prophesies. Which were themselves fairy tales.
for just 17 of the prophesies he fulfilled
-And where else do we find any mention whatsoever of this creature, but in one book proven to have been composed by liars. For the sole Purpose of fooling people like you.
The Law of blah
All lies. And how would YOU know either way?
roboferret
3.7 / 5 (3) May 29, 2012
You poked the wrong ferret. I've done my own analysis of the "Bible Code" using software I wrote myself. This is kinda my field of expertise. It didn't search for words , but underlying structure. If there was underlying code, there would be repeating structures and a more limited lexicon than random text - the language is irrelevant. The result? for equal "skips" information content decreased from n=2 (some words are more likely to follow others) and by n=20 was no better than purely random selection I'm afraid. All sufficiently long texts will contain some information in some places, but the bible is no better in this respect than newspaper print or a monkey with a typewriter.
roboferret
3.7 / 5 (3) May 29, 2012
One Last Thing:If we're going to do a book club, read "misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman for a fascinating history of early scripture. You have to bury your head very deep in the sand to believe in inerrancy these days.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) May 29, 2012
The bible is just an ancient political book, why do people still talk about it ? It is completely irrelevant to this day.
It is absolutely NOT irrelevant. Millions use it to disrupt, confuse, incite, and ruin.

'Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists Oppose Abortion in Mauritius'
http://www.thenew...auritius

'Christian woman sues boss over Islamic dress code in Jordan'
http://www.nydail...wI7PejLx

'This day' is still full of superstitious people like please_jezus who would drive us back into the stone age.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) May 29, 2012
Other portions were forged and added later.
My favorite is the phony ending tacked onto mark. Because the resurrected jesus walking amongst the living was a subsequent concept and so mark was just... updated. Crudely, obviously.

Here is ehrman talking about biblical evidence:
http://www.youtub...PPZztGC4
roboferret
3.7 / 5 (6) May 29, 2012
Mine is the "cast the first stone" story. Shame really, it's the only truly moral story in that mess.
IronhorseA
3 / 5 (2) May 30, 2012
Oh my aching head... Give me one other book in history composed of 66 books, written by 44 authors over 1600 years,...


One, size is irrelevant. Two, book didn't get written until after the hebrews returned from slavery in Babylonia, approximately 500-600 BCE, and the NT from around 70 CE to no more than 100 years after (at least the parts included in the official book, not the gnostic books), so only around 600-700 years during a time when the major civilizations of the day were relatively stable, with no 'dark ages' to interrupt things.
And three, there are plenty of contradictions. D~
kaasinees
1.4 / 5 (9) May 30, 2012
thousand years from now they will read religious books written by us that escaped slavery of capitalism.
IronhorseA
3.7 / 5 (3) May 30, 2012
Other portions were forged and added later.
My favorite is the phony ending tacked onto mark. Because the resurrected jesus walking amongst the living was a subsequent concept and so mark was just... updated. Crudely, obviously.

Here is ehrman talking about biblical evidence:
http://www.youtub...PPZztGC4

I sometimes wonder if the whole thing was a deliberate fraud. Essentially, the reason his followers didn't recognize him at first might be that they were seeing one of his brothers, who to them wouldn't look like him at all until he'd done a little selective recreation ie. couple of nail holes in his hands and feet, and a wound in his side, nice haircut maybe. After all there are people today who do actual recreations of the event (minus the hanging for 3 hours) and live.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (8) May 30, 2012
I sometimes wonder if the whole thing was a deliberate fraud. Essentially, the reason his followers didn't recognize him at first might be that they were seeing one of his brothers, who to them wouldn't look like him at all until he'd done a little selective recreation ie. couple of nail holes in his hands and feet, and a wound in his side, nice haircut maybe. After all there are people today who do actual recreations of the event (minus the hanging for 3 hours) and live.
There were many magicians and apocalyptic/messianic soothsayer types roaming the area at that time. Jesus could very well have been this guy:
http://en.wikiped...of_Tyana

-Any of the tricks attributed to jesus could be done by people like Randi or Penn and Teller or copperfield

...or benny hinn:
http://www.youtub...U-DislkI

...or popoff:
http://www.youtub...TspFrbik

-Stoves and king size beds praisethelord!!!
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.5 / 5 (8) May 30, 2012
This is fun - here is popoff vs randi on inside addition:
http://www.youtub...=related

-Was jesus an early popoff? Was his wife mary mag and the disciples out playing the audience in similar fashion, or pretending to be the blind, deaf, or dumb? Were people really any dumber back then than they are now?

"There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase often credited to P. T. Barnum (18101891), an American showman. Though this phrase is often credited to Barnum it was actually said by his opponent Hull.
IronhorseA
3 / 5 (2) May 31, 2012
This is fun - here is popoff vs randi on inside addition:
http://www.youtub...=related

"There's a sucker born every minute" is a phrase often credited to P. T. Barnum (18101891), an American showman. Though this phrase is often credited to Barnum it was actually said by his opponent Hull.

So, then if christianity was the 'scientology' of the Roman Empire, who was Jesus: L. Ron Hubbard, or Tom Cruise. D~
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (6) May 31, 2012
"Uri Geller is an Israeli born, self-proclaimed mystifier with a net worth of $10 million. Uri Geller has earned his net worth trademark television performances of spoon bending and other supposed psychic effects. His career has spanned almost four decades, with television shows and appearances all over the world. Born in Tel Aviv, British Mandate for Palestine, it claimed that Sigmund Freud is part of his family tree."

-Or Davy Crockett perhaps? Robin hood?
panorama
5 / 5 (2) May 31, 2012
One Last Thing:If we're going to do a book club, read "misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrman for a fascinating history of early scripture. You have to bury your head very deep in the sand to believe in inerrancy these days.

Thanks for the recommendation, I hadn't read this book and I'm about halfway through it since Tuesday. Great read.