Major scientific programs could be slashed or eliminated under debt-reduction deal

America needs to cut its spending overall but should actually increase it in vital areas such as infrastructure, higher education, R&D and scientific technologies like the James Webb.

Those that rule have much more invested in the defense industries than in the educational industries.

Too bad.

The LHC or Hubble would never be funded in a "free market" system.

Those that rule have much more invested in the defense industries than in the educational industries.

Too bad.

Those that rule have much more invested in the defense industries than in the educational industries.

Too bad.

"Of course the APS is doing exactly what the 'progressive' state wants them to do." - RyggTard

Yup. They are promoting science. Exactly what we progressives want them to do.

The 2008 Hubble service mission alone cost 900 million, and there have been 5 service missions?

Auto, it was the US Navy that has continues to fund research on cold fusion when the rest of the physics community was too afraid.
The first internet was created to maintain communications with the US nuclear missile silos in case of an attack.

An RPG is cheap and needs little engineering. An IR,GPS guided cruise missile much more. And to hit a incoming RV nuke, much more.

The first internet was created to maintain communications with the US nuclear missile silos in case of an attack.

die in the middle of the ocean from lack of health care.

scientists doing research into basic science are in fact worthless deadbeats.

Well, they seem to be doing a pretty pathetic job of it.

Why does this research take to long to produce the benefit claimed? Hot fusion research has made claims, sucked up money, and failed to deliver.

You realize some areas of our technology are already so advanced that it takes years or decades of research and trial and error to make a marketable, cost-effective improvement?

at everyone else's expense,

Warren Buffet wants to raise his own taxes....

much cheaper and safer than an aircraft and more affordable.

Why do we spend more money than the next 13 to 15 nations combined on military, particularly when 80% of them are our allies?

Aircraft carrier and a compliment of a few destroyers annihilated Libya's ENTIRE AA capability, and most of it's entire military in 2 days...

cut the SIZE (number of ships, planes, tanks and pilots,etc,) to like 40% of what it is now.

Enough slander, this is a science site.

My progressive view:
We've got it wrong on spending. I'd build a high speed rail network connecting every city, rebuild the bridges and roads, 100x the research money to the DOE and others, give college grants for degrees that would have a positive impact on the future, forgive college loans in half when filing for bankruptcy, add prizes for breakthroughs & cures for diseases (1 trillion for finding that one that everyone wants), all while taxing the holy hell out of the rich. We pulled money essentially out of our backside for Iraq, we can do the same for non-idiotic doings.

Wrong... Wrong.... and uhm..... Wrong...

Anyone who claims otherwise is profoundly ignorant of the last 30 years of recent history, and is guilty of employing a low brow blanket condemnation of everyone in place of a reasoned, attribution of blame based on evidence.

And it is this evidence that causes 98 percent of all scientists to be Liberal.

"This bickering back and forth is one of the main reasons the US is in this situation in the first place." - Spiffy

I consider someone as "smart" when they use logical reasoning based on valid assumptions to support their arguments.

I consider someone as "not smart" when they use logical fallacies, straw men, ad hominems, non sequiturs, and biased generalizations to support their arguments.

http://en.wikiped...allacies

Or people that use Wikie as a reference.

The govt can take ALL the money from the rich, and more, and it would still not be enough...how will the 'progressive' pay for next year?

The first job of a politician is to be reelected, not do what is right.

Since you ARE a politician,

"I'm a both a Democrat and a chemical engineer." - Spiffy

And ignorant of the last 40 years of your own American history.

That is why you have lost your nation. Political ignorance and apathy among Liberals and Independents.

VD, conservatives have been against spending for a long time. In Canada and in the US. It is the progressives that constantly push/demand to spend.

Who says? You need to be more skeptical.

'Progressives' used to call themselves 'liberal'.

If this makes those who feel they are 'progressive' or 'liberal' uncomfortable, there may be hope for you.

LIBERALS, or 'Progressives' as you call them, under Jean Chretien and his appointed finance minister Paul Martin in the mid-nineties to early 2000s that got our country's fiscal house IN ORDER. Under Martin's stewardship Canada eliminated its deficit, accumulated surpluses and began to pay down its debt.

I have never encountered a Conservative who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

What lies?

And it was Newt Gingrich and Republicans who put a leash on liberals in the mid 90s.

If the govt can 'legally' plunder, why shouldn't the people?

Too bad socialists are too afraid to take credit for their accomplishments.

History lesson of Canada please see Reform Party of Canada. It was they that started up the debate about the deficit.

n 1993 CND's credit rating was dropped to AA plus, THAT'S what made things get serious. FAIL!

Too bad socialists are too afraid to take credit for their accomplishments. After all, prosperity is not their objective, power and control is.

That's what being a 'progressive' is all about.

Wow, the boy who gave up his brain tries to save face with a misleading reference to Refoooooorrrrmmm! (as we use to say 'round here).

Ehtel and many others here are 'progressive' and do support socialism based upon what they write.

Wow, the boy who gave up his brain tries to save face with a misleading reference to Refoooooorrrrmmm! (as we use to say 'round here).

You've been watching too much Air Farce ;)

Progressives love to re-write history, even Canadian History

because they're different things.

n 1993 CND's credit rating was dropped to AA plus, THAT'S what made things get serious. FAIL!

Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.

It's not surprising Ethel wants to continue lying. That's what being a 'progressive' is all about.

SH lies about me and Ethel repeats the lies. What a surprise!

A lion, a shark or a cobra are all different species, but they will all kill you if you are not careful.

A shark, a lion, and a cobra are related is that they will all kill you if you're not careful. How else are they related?

A shark, a lion, and a cobra are related is that they will all kill you if you're not careful. How else are they related?

They are all related in that the hippo kill more than all three of them.

Thank you, that is all.

So, as I'm following this, the hippo represents religion am I right?

So, as I'm following this, the hippo represents religion am I right?

I was just throwing that in as a little bit of absurdism in a minor attempt to derail another mind-numbing political debate, but that's actually a very appropriate attribution.

So you agree javinator that progressivism, communism, and liberalism are similar in their endings. They all lead to distruction.

Then I said that those different political stances are related in some ways,

The hippo represents the vegan socialist, vegetarian killer.

For those who truly care about individual liberty, private property, and prosperity, how they differ is immaterial.

Captain Marjon then weighed anchor (twenty pounds) and headed north towards the Red Sea while the All Kazoo AnnRandMarchingBand played the Somali National Anthem...

The hippo represents the vegan socialist, vegetarian killer.

Progressives shout it is the conservatives fault we are in debt, not progressives spending more, and wanting to spend even more, than we make that is the problem.

Lying and progressives go hand in hand, like progressives and spending.

How the differ matters

How the differ matters

If a dictator steals your property or if it is a democratic mob, your property has been stolen.
What is the difference?

If it is wrong for you to steal my property, why is it right for a gang to pass laws making it 'legal' to steal my property?

Conversely, as the rioters in the UK demonstrate,

if the state (the legal mob) doesn't respect private property, why should an ad hoc mob respect private property?

a democratic mob, your property has been stolen.

The STATE is still legally BOUND--that's how they respect it: by taking only what is agreed to in LAW--

WTF is WRONG with you?

The STATE is still legally BOUND--that's how they respect it: by taking only what is agreed to in LAW--

Agreed to by law?

"President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law suffered a setback on Friday when an appeals court ruled that it was unconstitutional to require all Americans to buy insurance or face a penalty."
http://ca.news.ya...777.html

The president has no plans to follow the LAW. The court has ruled and the president ignores the Court. What law?

If a Capitalist steals your property or if it is a Libertarian mob, your property has been stolen.

The STATE is still legally BOUND--that's how they respect it: by taking only what is agreed to in LAW--

Agreed to by law?
So a 50% 1 majority (a mob ) can pass laws authorizing the state to plunder the wealth of 50%-1?
That is the definition of 'agreed to'?

"President Barack Obama's signature healthcare law suffered a setback on Friday..."

The president has no plans to follow the LAW. The court has ruled and the president ignores the Court. What law?

within the bounds laid out by a democracy's Constitution and Bill/Charter of Rights

Socialism leads to the equal sharing of misery as Churchill said.

Children have the right to life, the right to be protected, don't they VD?

This fact was repeatedly raised by progressives during the 80's

Tax Cuts And 'Starving The Beast'
The most pernicious fiscal doctrine in history.

Tax Cuts And 'Starving The Beast'
The most pernicious fiscal doctrine in history.

all the private actors are flat-broke.

people like Adam Smith, Bastiat, Hayek, Mises who have been stating reality.

BTW, tariffs made the 30s depression worse.

Who made them flat broke?

A govt that is a huge force in the economy maybe?

What deregulation?

Freddie and Fannie ARE govt agencies.

"Barely had printing presses?

You sunk (at sea!)over a trillion dollars in one human being: Usama.
And are still at it.

For that alone, you all deserve to fail, if not die.
Your math and your politics make no sense and
typifies this thread.

"This thread is so full of crap it is rather hard to distinguish just who you were." - Ethelred

(Two words too many dropped)

Well...yes. The veil of Mist obscures everyone from view.
O.k. All in jest. All good in making fun. Makes sense.

(Mist=German word for the English word shit)

And for the most part, NAFTA has been beneficial to the U.S.

If by private actors you mean citizens

it would be 95% the result of Republican action based on Libertarian/Randite ideology and 5% Liberal error

the TeaPublican demand for an immediate balancing of Federal Expenditures - These moves were championed by Wall Street Trader and Traitor Rick Santelli - these are demands that would have added another 30 million to the unemployed.

Now you're starting to sound just like the el primo troll. NAFTA beneficial to the U.S.? How: by exporting production capacity to Mexico? NAFTA has had exactly the same motivation, and the same end-result, as similar "free trade" agreements and policies in Asia.

the Bush tax cuts that turned the Clinton Surplus into a 440 billion per year deficit in 3 years

a trade off between improving the Mexican Economy and Reducing the influx of illegal Mexican workers into the U.S. economy

Adding 30 million to the unemployment ranks will increase the U.S. unemployment rate to just over 30 percent.

Cut spending and throw more people onto the unemployment line, or maintain your deficit - increasing future problems - until the economy improves.

Both are unpalatable options forced upon you by the last 40 years of Republican fiscal treason.

What are you going to do about it? Vote for Ron Paul?

Perhaps you would rather not have had the positive effects of the Obama Stimulus and now be in year 3 of a 30 year long Depression.

you expect a complete overhaul of the banking industry to be conducted at the same time they are trying to prevent the system from collapsing?

The U.S. financial industry is now stable

American Corporations are sitting on 3 trillion in cash

and the U.S. economy is out of recession, although still growing sluggishly.

Wall Street wants whatever will give it the most money.

Which laws did the Clinton Administration ignore with regard to market enforcement?

trade allows us to work together for our own benefits

Both Pinkie and VD argue the statist position. The STATE must control the economy.

Yes, the Bush cuts were disastrous. But there has never been any such thing as "the Clinton Surplus". This "surplus" was a result of fraudulent "revenues" skimmed from the .com bubble. The economy under Clinton was ridiculously distorted, not in a small part due to Clinton's willful and malicious refusal to actually police the markets -- in other words, to do his JOB as the Chief Executive

What's the matter?

blaming the president for a bad economy is like blaming Ronald macdonald when you get a bad hamburger

Spokesmodels are not responsible for the content of the Happy Meal.

That is only true of trade partners who are at approximately equivalent levels of economic development, and who have similar labor, wage, and environmental standards.

The President's job is to implement and enforce the nation's laws.

No, it does not, and empirical data and logic does not support your assertion.

Even if they are bad laws?

And 100 years later, the US is no longer so great a nation

The President's job is to implement and enforce the nation's laws. That's the explicit designated purpose for the Executive Branch, per the U.S. Constitution. Failure to implement and enforce the law is a direct failure of the President.

My point exactly. Our Presidents -- regardless of party -- are no longer doing the job they are supposed to do; they have devolved into bought-and-paid-for spokesmen.

The decline in America didn't start with the advent creation of a Central Bank.

But it was the US Army that did not want to make the same mistake the world powers did after WWI. So they helped Germany rebuild, they helped Japan rebuild.

The current U.S. GDP is close to 14 trillion per year.

assuming that the average American has 40 years of life remaining, this government bailout has saved at least 10 percent of gdp per capita for every year over those 40 years

rapid change as demanded by the Republicans and TeaTards is immediate economic suicide.

I want specifics. Which laws were ignored, which laws were broken.

Asteroid impact, methane volcano, supervolcano, etc. Any combination of the above. What would happen with our fragile economies?

Who better to carry debt so the other guy can increase spending than the government?

Someone who wants his money back with interest for the risk of the loan. A govt doesn't care if it gets paid back because they can force the risk onto others.

are assured of getting that money back, plus the stated interest on the face of the note.

it can borrow from itself to do so, which allows it to set the terms of the bonds it issues.

I want specifics. Which laws were ignored, which laws were broken.

http://en.wikiped...0.932000

A reference that doesn't show that any laws were broken.

May: Brooksley Born at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission wants to investigate over the Counter derivatives like credit default swaps; their lack of transparency, lack of regulation, and possible systemic risk. Alan Greenspan, Robert Rubin, and Arthur Levitt of Clinton's Working Group on Financial Markets, and Larry Summers shut her down. She resigns soon after.

Save during the good times, deficit spend during the bad ones.

If private institutions are buying government securities with their low yields, it's because they don't have anything better to spend their money on.

If private institutions are buying government securities with their low yields, it's because they don't have anything better to spend their money on.

And this is a good thing? A govt promoting economic growth and prosperity would not think this a good thing.

Would you rather deprive those individuals of that choice?

You keep drinking that TeaTard cool aid little boy. Demand that Economic Depression. You deserve every part of it.

That isn't a pleasant prospect and once there it won't matter much anymore who's fault it was. Unless we're cutting heads off at that point.

It does matter who is at fault to prevent the same thing from happening again.

As a result, you will either have to endure their continued economic treason, or make an example of a few thousand of them through public hangings.

All you need are a few trees. I will provide all the rope you need.

"VD is a Progressive lunatic who espouses killing those that disagree with him." - FreeTard

The crime of Treason exists for a reason. The ultimate punishment is death. Republicans/Libertarians/Randites have actively been engaged in acts of treason against the state.

The conclusions to be drawn are self evident, and will become obvious in the very near future when retribution against the traitors begins.

Lets not get VD banned, he expresses plainly what progressives believes.

Don't they too show that they agree with him in principle?

If either of you don't feel like paying the bill for a being an American

Interesting that Ethelred wants two conservatives to move to Somalia,/q]I never said any such a thing.

I only said that you should move there if you don't want to pay the bill for living in America or any other country that has taxes. Taxes are part of living in decent country. Calling taxes theft is a lie. Vote against taxes with your feet. Somalia has no taxes as it has no government in any real sense. Thus it is ideal for all those Ann Rand fans. Also you and Marjon are not Conservatives. You are radicals and that is not conservative.

Interesting that antithinker doesn't understand that the Somalia has exactly the kind of government and economic system that he and Marjon are demanding.

Now unlike Marjon you have not supported Somali piracy so I have not suggested that you become a pirate.

Since it is now clear that you think Somalia is dangerous perhaps it is time reconsider your idiotic ideas on government.

It would also be nice if you would stop lying.

Ethelred

VD calling for the execution of conservatives.

what a Reserve System is good for.

it's for is to inflate the money supply so the govt can borrow and spend more

That's been working really well for the past 100 years?

continue to await your answer

Ok Ethelred, where did you condemn VD?

Progressives lie, people die.

Max Planck

Every time it was allowed to. And each time there was a problem it was because an idiotologue sabotaged the system. Like the aforementioned Andy Jackson and the idiots that made the Great Depression far worse than it would have been had they actually done their jobs and engaged in regulation.

And no I did NOT say you go to Somalia.
I said IF you don't want to pay taxes THEN you should go.
If that logical construction is beyond you, which wouldn't surprise me, then why are you on this site.

Why it has to be Somalia? Why not Monaco?

Plenty of scientists have changed their minds only a few become cranks.

Why it has to be Somalia? Why not Monaco?

you lie that Rygg supports piracy

Ethelred, you are a supporter of VD, and you lie that Rygg supports piracy. If Rygg is an elected official, let me know who he is? Given his knowlege of ecconomics he should be a good one. I'll contact who you say rygg is and confirm it if it's true.

So the pirates were created, operate and profit in a limbo created by the nation-states.
Govt is great?

It's not the government's fault that there are pirates. The pirates are terrible people trying to take advantage of those around them.

If government were abolished globally the whole world would be a limbo where pirates run rampant everywhere.

OR they are desperate and resourceful tribalists forced into 'crime' in an overcrowded region. Attacks on other tribes in contention for resources is NOT crime, biologically speaking.

Govt has failed to stop the pirates. Why?

Look, I'm not saying that they've got it great in Somalia or anything, but when you're kidnapping and killing people to steal what they have for yourself you lose my sympathy pretty quickly.

Biologically speaking there are no crimes Otto. Survival of the fittest and all that.

""The first pirate gangs emerged in the '90s...The names of existing pirate fleets, such as the National Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia or Somali Marines

"High-seas trawlers from countries as far flung as South Korea, Japan and Spain have operated down the Somali coast

often illegally and without licenses, for the better part of two decades, the U.N. says. They often fly flags of convenience from sea-faring friendly nations like Belize and Bahrain, which further helps the ships skirt international regulations and evade censure from their home countries.

And in ryggspeak this is only freemarketeers resisting big govt controls and fishing wherever the hll they wanted to. Because they could.

I fail to see your point.

Ethelred, you are a supporter of VD

and you lie that Rygg supports piracy.

If Rygg is an elected official, let me know who he is?

Why does Ethel defend the failure of many govts to

It's also interesting the SH and now Ethel seem it important to find out who I am.

Unless you were to find yourself in the unfortunate position of having to do so in order for your family to survive.

See, now that's a tough question because I haven't been put into that position. I understand what you're saying and that I shouldn't be passing judgement on people when I haven't been in their situation.