Researchers recreate the sun's solar wind and plasma 'burps' on Earth

Researchers recreate the sun's solar wind and plasma 'burps' on Earth
The Big Red Plasma Ball is pictured in Sterling Hall at the University of Wisconsin-Madison on Oct. 2, 2017. The Big Red Plasma Ball, part of the new Wisconsin Plasma Physics Laboratory (WiPPL) being led by Physics Professor Cary Forest, is one of several pieces of scientific equipment being used to study the fundamental properties of plasma in order to better understand the universe, where the hot gas is abundant. Credit: Jeff Miller/UW-Madison

The sun's solar wind affects nearly everything in the solar system. It can disrupt the function of Earth's satellites and creates the lights of the auroras.

A new study by University of Wisconsin-Madison physicists mimicked solar winds in the lab, confirming how they develop and providing an Earth-bound model for the future study of solar .

Our sun is essentially a big of hot plasma—an energetic state of matter made up of ionized gas. As the sun spins, the plasma spins along, too. This plasma movement in the core of the sun produces a that fills the solar atmosphere. At some distance from the sun's surface, known as the Alfvén surface, this magnetic field weakens and plasma breaks away from the sun, creating the .

"The solar wind is highly variable, but there are essentially two types: fast and slow," explains Ethan Peterson, a graduate student in the department of physics at UW-Madison and lead author of the study published online July 29 in Nature Physics. "Satellite missions have documented pretty well where the fast wind comes from, so we were trying to study specifically how the slow solar wind is generated and how it evolves as it travels toward Earth."

Peterson and his colleagues, including physics professor Cary Forest, may not have direct access to the big plasma ball of the sun, but they do have access to the next best thing: the Big Red Ball.

The Big Red Ball is a three-meter-wide hollow sphere, with a strong magnet at its center and various probes inside. The researchers pump helium gas in, ionize it to create a plasma, and then apply an electric current that, along with the magnetic field, stirs the plasma, creating a near-perfect mimic of the spinning plasma and electromagnetic fields of the sun.

With their mini-sun in place, the researchers can take measurements at many points inside the ball, allowing them to study solar phenomena in three dimensions.

First, they were able to recreate the Parker Spiral, a magnetic field that fills the entire named for the scientist who first described the solar wind. Below the Alfvén surface, the magnetic field radiates straight out from the Sun. But at that surface, solar wind dynamics take over, dragging the magnetic field into a spiral.

"Satellite measurements are pretty consistent with the Parker Spiral model, but only at one point at a time, so you'd never be able to make a simultaneous, large-scale map of it like we can in the lab." Peterson says. "Our experimental measurements confirm Parker's theory of how it is created by these plasma flows."

The researchers were also able to identify the source of the Sun's plasma "burps," small, periodic ejections of plasma that fuel the slow solar wind. With the plasma spinning, they probed the magnetic field and the speed of the plasma. Their data mapped a region where the plasma was moving fast enough and the magnetic field was weak enough that the could break off and eject radially.

"These ejections are observed by satellites, but no one knows what drives them," Peterson says. "We ended up seeing very similar burps in our experiment, and identified how they develop."

The researchers stress that their Earth-bound experiments complement, but don't replaceme, satellite missions. For example, the Parker Solar Probe, launched in August 2018, is expected to reach and even dip below the Alfvén surface. It will provide direct measurements of solar wind never obtained before.

"Our work shows that laboratory experiments can also get at the fundamental physics of these processes," Peterson says. "And because the Big Red Ball is now funded as a National User Facility, it says to the science community: If you want to study the physics of solar wind, you can do that here."


Explore further

The solar wind breaks through the Earth's magnetic field

More information: The Sun's magnetic field in the laboratory, Nature Physics (2019). DOI: 10.1038/s41567-019-0592-7
Journal information: Nature Physics

Citation: Researchers recreate the sun's solar wind and plasma 'burps' on Earth (2019, July 29) retrieved 19 September 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-07-recreate-sun-solar-plasma-burps.html
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Jul 29, 2019
Big Red Ball is a three-meter-wide hollow sphere, with a strong magnet at its center and various probes inside. The researchers pump helium gas in, ionize it to create a plasma, and then apply an electric current that, along with the magnetic field, stirs the plasma, creating a near-perfect mimic of the spinning plasma and electromagnetic fields of the sun

Who are these wooists? Where is this electric current at the Sun? How is this relevant? jonesdumb needs to email these woo meisters and let them know this is just a bunch of woo.
Bwhahahah!

Jul 30, 2019
This experiment is very similar to to the Safire Project which jonesdumb and his ilk derided as irrelevant. They claimed there are no electric currents. These scientists disagree, they understand electricity is part and parcel to plasmas. It is how astrophysical plasmas are sustained, electric currents flowing through them.

Jul 30, 2019
This sounds very much the Safire project experiments https://www.safireproject.com/
Why does phys.org not do an article on them, they've been around a while and started this before UoW-M.?

Jul 30, 2019
First time I've heard a CME referred to as a "burp" ... because the plasma gets moving fast enough to "break off and eject radially" where the magnetic field is just too weak despite the artificial electric current they're stoking it with... broken plasma, hmmm

Jul 30, 2019
This experiment is very similar to to the Safire Project


They haven't done anything with Safire and it's been over 5 years, you fraud.

Jul 30, 2019
It is how astrophysical plasmas are sustained, electric currents flowing through them.


Plasma is an electrical conductor, not a magic powder that rules everything.
You don't even know basic circuit analysis, and claim the power of an EE.

Please show us how to tap into the electric current of a permanent magnet, so we can live like Kings with free energy.

Jul 30, 2019
This experiment is very similar to to the Safire Project which jonesdumb and his ilk derided as irrelevant. They claimed there are no electric currents. These scientists disagree, they understand electricity is part and parcel to plasmas. It is how astrophysical plasmas are sustained, electric currents flowing through them.


Wrong. They are studying the solar wind. They are not building a model of the Sun. That is difficult to do in a lab. So, instead of accumulating 2 x 10^30 kg of H and He in their lab, and waiting for it to gravitationally collapse, and a dynamo to appear to create the magnetic field, they chuck in a magnet, some plasma and a current to simulate it. And you know what the quote;

But at that surface, solar wind dynamics take over, ***dragging the magnetic field*** into a spiral.


means, don't you? Lol. Oh, and they also invoke MR!

Jul 30, 2019
This experiment is very similar to to the Safire Project


They haven't done anything with Safire and it's been over 5 years, you fraud.

Lie much Old Mind?
Please show us how to tap into the electric current of a permanent magnet, so we can live like Kings with free energy.

What a moron!

Jul 30, 2019
They are studying the solar wind.

Yep, by;
"apply an electric current that, along with the magnetic field, stirs the plasma, creating a near-perfect mimic of the spinning plasma and electromagnetic fields of the sun."
That's called physics.


Jul 30, 2019
waiting for it to gravitationally collapse, and a dynamo to appear to create the magnetic field,

This is hypothetical conjecture.

Jul 30, 2019
Lie much Old Mind?
Please show us how to tap into the electric current of a permanent magnet, so we can live like Kings with free energy.


Where is the lie bonehead? You claim magnetic fields require an electric current. There is no electric current supply generating a permanent magnet's field.

Jul 30, 2019
waiting for it to gravitationally collapse, and a dynamo to appear to create the magnetic field,

This is hypothetical conjecture.


Haven't seen any other scientifically valid mechanisms.

Jul 30, 2019
They are studying the solar wind.

Yep, by;
"apply an electric current that, along with the magnetic field, stirs the plasma, creating a near-perfect mimic of the spinning plasma and electromagnetic fields of the sun."
That's called physics.



Wrong. Nobody is saying the solar wind is a current, you imbecile. And particularly not these authors. The current is used to generate the magnetic field. That is all. It doesn't travel outward with the magnetic field! I rather think we might have noticed that. You really need to stay away from plasmas as they apply to astrophysics, because you haven't got a scooby what you're talking about. And neither has anybody else in your Velikovskian cult.

Jul 30, 2019
Lie much Old Mind?
Please show us how to tap into the electric current of a permanent magnet, so we can live like Kings with free energy.


Where is the lie bonehead? You claim magnetic fields require an electric current. There is no electric current supply generating a permanent magnet's field.
Old C,
Isn't the magnetic dipolar alignment creating it's own "current"?

Jul 30, 2019
Although the paper is paywalled, there are a couple of interesting supplementary videos that can be downloaded at;

https://www.natur...9-0592-7

In particular, nos. 2 & 3. No. 2 is what is observed in the experiment, and no. 3 is a computer simulation of what is expected to happen. They are rather similar. Both show magnetic reconnection and plasmoids. A description of the videos is also provided ;

https://static-co..._ESM.pdf

Jul 30, 2019
They are studying the solar wind.

Yep, by;
"apply an electric current that, along with the magnetic field, stirs the plasma, creating a near-perfect mimic of the spinning plasma and electromagnetic fields of the sun."
That's called physics.

Plasma is being spun up by electric currents. Does it do that on the sun?

Jul 30, 2019
Plasma is being spun up by electric currents. Does it do that on the sun?


No. As the Sun rotates it sets up a dynamo that creates currents which create the magnetic field;

https://www.cora....amo.html

The solar plasma escapes the Sun, and drags the magnetic field with it. Which is what they tell us in the article. It is not as simple as a radially expanding plasma dragging out the field also radially, As the Sun rotates, we get what is described as the Parker Spiral morphology of the solar wind and the magnetic field;

http://demonstrat...rSpiral/

That is named after the same Eugene Parker that the current solar probe mission is named.

Jul 30, 2019
Plasma is being spun up by electric currents. Does it do that on the sun?

Of course, plasma is subjected to EM forces which are at least 36 orders of magnitude stronger than gravity.

Jul 30, 2019
Plasma is being spun up by electric currents. Does it do that on the sun?

Of course, plasma is subjected to EM forces which are at least 36 orders of magnitude stronger than gravity.


Wrong. That is at the atomic level. The statement is meaningless unless you clarify at what scales we are dealing with.

Jul 30, 2019
They are studying the solar wind.

Yep, by;
"apply an electric current that, along with the magnetic field, stirs the plasma, creating a near-perfect mimic of the spinning plasma and electromagnetic fields of the sun."
That's called physics.



Pretty neat that the sun has a huge permanent magnet in the middle of it to match with what these researchers did in the lab! /s

Jul 30, 2019
This experiment is very similar to to the Safire Project


They haven't done anything with Safire and it's been over 5 years, you fraud.

Lie much Old Mind?
Please show us how to tap into the electric current of a permanent magnet, so we can live like Kings with free energy.

What a moron!


Sayeth the moron.

Jul 30, 2019
waiting for it to gravitationally collapse, and a dynamo to appear to create the magnetic field,

This is hypothetical conjecture.


Haven't seen any other scientifically valid mechanisms.

The plasma z-pinch is scientifically valid, despite your willful ignorance.

Jul 30, 2019
waiting for it to gravitationally collapse, and a dynamo to appear to create the magnetic field,

This is hypothetical conjecture.


Haven't seen any other scientifically valid mechanisms.

The plasma z-pinch is scientifically valid, despite your willful ignorance.


No it isn't! Which clown has suggested that? Not a scientist I'll wager! What is getting pinched? How is this creating the IMF? Sounds like bollocks to me.

Jul 30, 2019

The plasma z-pinch is scientifically valid, despite your willful ignorance.


Let's see you do this in a lab:
NGC 6302

Features: Ionization walls, knots, sharp edges to the lobes
z-pinch at the center? No, a leftover white dwarf surrounded by a dense equatorial disk of gas and dust that's postulated to have caused the bipolar shaped outflows...

Jul 30, 2019
Plasma is being spun up by electric currents. Does it do that on the sun?

Of course, plasma is subjected to EM forces which are at least 36 orders of magnitude stronger than gravity.


Wrong. That is at the atomic level. The statement is meaningless unless you clarify at what scales we are dealing with.

Plasma physics and processes are scalable, despite your willful ignorance.

Jul 30, 2019
Plasma is being spun up by electric currents. Does it do that on the sun?

Of course, plasma is subjected to EM forces which are at least 36 orders of magnitude stronger than gravity.


Wrong. That is at the atomic level. The statement is meaningless unless you clarify at what scales we are dealing with.

Plasma physics and processes are scalable, despite your willful ignorance.


No, you idiot. The 10^36 is not scalable. What an idiotic thing to say! That is the difference between G and EM in the atomic structure. Get to macro scales, and gravity dominates. In case you haven't noticed.

Jul 30, 2019
Plasma is being spun up by electric currents. Does it do that on the sun?

Of course, plasma is subjected to EM forces which are at least 36 orders of magnitude stronger than gravity.


Wrong. That is at the atomic level. The statement is meaningless unless you clarify at what scales we are dealing with.

Plasma physics and processes are scalable, despite your willful ignorance.


No, you idiot. The 10^36 is not scalable. What an idiotic thing to say! That is the difference between G and EM in the atomic structure. Get to macro scales, and gravity dominates. In case you haven't noticed.

Yes it is, look it up. Actually just look up, the article above is a demonstration of the scalability.
I'm not sure how one can be so dense. It is only the darkists who believe differently.

Jul 30, 2019
Plasma physics and processes are scalable, despite your willful ignorance.
You're the one ignoring gravity willfully. btw, have you seen US10135366B2? Scroll down to where it says, "Quantum vacuum plasma (QVP) ..."

Jul 30, 2019

The plasma z-pinch is scientifically valid, despite your willful ignorance.


Let's see you do this in a lab:
https://upload.wi...full.jpg

Features: Ionization walls, knots, sharp edges to the lobes
z-pinch at the center? No, a leftover white dwarf surrounded by a dense equatorial disk of gas and dust that's postulated to have caused the bipolar shaped outflows...

It's absolutely beautiful, isn't it?
And yes, you are observing plasma experiencing z-pinch effect of the EM forces at play. There are many examples of z-pinch stars;
https://www.googl...mp;hl=en

Jul 30, 2019
You're the one ignoring gravity willfully

It's but a short range very weak force, the weakest of the natural forces. It can largely be ignored, not totally, but almost.

Jul 31, 2019
Yes it is, look it up. Actually just look up, the article above is a demonstration of the scalability.
I'm not sure how one can be so dense. It is only the darkists who believe differently.


Trivially wrong. You really should give up on science, it isn't your cup of tea.

https://www.wtamu...dex.html

Jul 31, 2019
You're the one ignoring gravity willfully

It's but a short range very weak force, the weakest of the natural forces. It can largely be ignored, not totally, but almost.


Wrong. Completely arse about face! EM dominates at small scales, gravity at larger scales. Like I said, you really should give up on this science lark. At least until you've learned some.

Jul 31, 2019
It's absolutely beautiful, isn't it?
And yes, you are observing plasma experiencing z-pinch effect of the EM forces at play. There are many examples of z-pinch stars;


There are precisely zero examples of such idiocy. Not a single sane scientist has claimed any such nonsense. A quick look at the Doppler measurements show the claims to be wrong, even if such things were possible. And nobody is claiming that they are. Nobody qualified, anyway.

Jul 31, 2019
Isn't the magnetic dipolar alignment creating it's own "current"?


Then tap into it and create infinite free energy ... uh, no.

The greatest mind in physics (imo) Feynman, couldn't explain magnets, err, the magnetic field.


Jul 31, 2019
The explanation for magnetism is simple: it's the correction for the action of the electric field because the electric force doesn't act instantaneously. Thus, a charged particle passing another charged particle is attracted (or repelled) not from where the particle *is* but where it *was*. If you do the vector math, what you find is this delay (or correction, as I said above) acts at right angles to the electric force, exactly as magnetism does to the electric force, if you assume a priori (and incorrectly) that the electric force acts instantaneously. For a pair of particles that are motionless with respect to one another, of course, there is no such correction. This is why there must be moving charges (i.e. electric current) if you see magnetism.

[contd]

Jul 31, 2019
[contd]
In natural ferromagnetic magnets, like magnetized iron, the net motion of the electrons in the orbitals around the iron atoms is aligned and relatively synchronous; each electron makes a magnetic field, and if they are aligned and synchronous then the magnetic field from each atom adds to the others and you have a permanent magnet.

In an electromagnet, wire is coiled around a core and when the current (it must be DC) is turned on, the electrons flowing in the wire make a magnetic field that adds up across the windings. In a solenoid, this magnetic field acts upon a plunger that is ferromagnetic but restrained by a spring, so that when the current is on the plunger is pulled into the coils but when it is off the spring pushes it out.

This is all EE 101.

Jul 31, 2019
Yes it is, look it up. Actually just look up, the article above is a demonstration of the scalability.
I'm not sure how one can be so dense. It is only the darkists who believe differently.


Trivially wrong. You really should give up on science, it isn't your cup of tea.

https://www.wtamu...dex.html

Show me in the literature, I could careless what that blog has to say.

Jul 31, 2019
Yes it is, look it up. Actually just look up, the article above is a demonstration of the scalability.
I'm not sure how one can be so dense. It is only the darkists who believe differently.


Trivially wrong. You really should give up on science, it isn't your cup of tea.

From a real scientist;

"For example, a hydrogen ion in the solar wind with a thermal velocity of 20 kilometers per second in the interplanetary magnetic field of 5 nanotesla experiences a magnetic force of that is about 10^7 times stronger than the gravitational force from the Sun."
http://plasmauniv...lds.html

Jul 31, 2019
Oh, and from your link jonesdumb, they admit gravity isn't even a force so they revert to Newtonian mechanics for the comparison. Basically you got nothing.

Jul 31, 2019
"For example, a hydrogen ion in the solar wind with a thermal velocity of 20 kilometers per second in the interplanetary magnetic field of 5 nanotesla experiences a magnetic force of that is about 10^7 times stronger than the gravitational force from the Sun."
What's the distance from the proton to the sun?

Let's say, if it's an interplanetary magnetic field, that the distance is 1 AU, so the proton is as far from the sun as the earth -- 149.6 billion meters. The mass of the sun is 1.989 × 10^30 kg, the mass of the proton is 1.67 x 10^-21 kg, and G is 6.674×10^−11 m^3/kg/sec/sec. So the gravitational force is
F = G m1m2/r^2
F = (6.674×10^−11)(1.989 × 10^30)(1.67 x 10^-21) / (2.238016‬ × 10^22) = 1.0011 ×10^−23 N

And for the force on the proton from the magnetic field is
F = (Q_proton)(v)(β)
F = (1.602 x 10^-19 C)(2 x 10^4 m/s)(5‬ x 10^-9 T) = 1.602 x 10^-23 N

Where do they get 10^7 ??

Jul 31, 2019
Oh, and from your link jonesdumb, they admit gravity isn't even a force so they revert to Newtonian mechanics for the comparison. Basically you got nothing.


Wrong dumbo. That is explained to those who have reading skills. In the examples he is giving, relativity does not need to be taken into account. Learn comprehension.

Jul 31, 2019
Show me in the literature, I could careless what that blog has to say.


The author's qualifications;

https://wtamu.edu...sq/faqs/

Looks pretty impressive to me. Peer reviewer for an IEEE publication! Taught EM to PhDs at UMass!

Jul 31, 2019
And I have no idea what the force on a proton is from the IMF and the Sun. It would necessarily depend on distance. One should not be surprised that a charged particle that is moving away from the Sun, in a frozen-in magnetic field, is more influenced by the magnetic field it is embedded in, than by the Sun's gravity. However, a comet at the same distance is orbiting the Sun purely due to gravity. EM has no influence on it. Ditto an asteroid. Or meteorite. OK, we could call the YORP effect an EM phenomenon, but it is trivial compared to gravity. The gravitational force between two stars will be umpteen orders of magnitude greater than EM forces between them.

Jul 31, 2019
@Cantwhatever

they admit gravity isn't even a force

That statement alone should cue you in to the bullshit about to be shitted your way.

Jul 31, 2019
they admit gravity isn't even a force
tbf, they're paraphrasing Einstein and Wheeler. In Einstein's GR he determined that massive objects cause a distortion in space-time, which is felt as gravity, that is, gravity is most accurately described by the general theory of relativity which describes gravity not as a force, but as a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass. And Wheeler's well known quote is, "Spacetime tells matter how to move; matter tells spacetime how to curve."

Jul 31, 2019
Relative Angular Velocity

This quasi neutral spinning magnetic field
MopMan> As the Sun rotates it sets up a dynamo that creates currents which create the magnetic field;

The suns magnetic field spins with our suns angular momentum
Just as this quasi neutral plasma CME's is quasi neutral down to localised localities
This solar magnetic field is quasi neutral down to localised localities
But viewed as a whole
The suns magnetic field can have virtually no effect on the suns electrical dynamo effect
For a magnetic field has to sweep cross sectional areas of the sun
A magnetic field, spinning with the same angular velocity of the sun, is effectively stationary, relative to the sun

Now there's a word; relativity, magnetic velocity relative to angular velocity

Jul 31, 2019
Show me in the literature, I could careless what that blog has to say.


The author's qualifications;

https://wtamu.edu...sq/faqs/

Looks pretty impressive to me. Peer reviewer for an IEEE publication! Taught EM to PhDs at UMass!

We'll remember that comment next time you deride Dr. Scott.

Jul 31, 2019
Show me in the literature, I could careless what that blog has to say.


The author's qualifications;

https://wtamu.edu...sq/faqs/

Looks pretty impressive to me. Peer reviewer for an IEEE publication! Taught EM to PhDs at UMass!

We'll remember that comment next time you deride Dr. Scott.


Why? He's an EE, not a physicist.

Jul 31, 2019
@Protoplasmix

And Wheeler's well known quote is, "Spacetime tells matter how to move; matter tells spacetime how to curve."

Thanks. So are they splitting hairs? We measure the force of gravity, we calculate the force of gravity for every object we launch into space. What is being measured?

Jul 31, 2019
So are they splitting hairs?
not being an expert i've always thought of it as a force but it turns out general relativity is incredibly successful at describing reality as we experience it, so maybe nuance is a better way to put it -- one of the first tests was checking to see if light from a distant star curved around the sun, ofc it did and the rest is history -- my favorite part is learning about gravitational lensing and gravitational waves, consequences from additional predictions of GR when considering spacetime in the manner recommended by Einstein, Wheeler, et many al. The more you learn about it, the easier it is to see how awesome LIGO is for astronomy and cosmology...

Jul 31, 2019
The father of modern general relativity

John Archibald Wheeler (July 9, 1911 – April 13, 2008)
One of Albert Einstein's last collaborators
Who helped build the atomic bomb
And gave black holes their name
Passed away
His family said
He was 96.
John Archibald Wheeler
A legend in physics who coined the term "black hole"
And whose myriad scientific contributions
Figured in many of the research advances of the 20th century
Over a long
Productive scientific life
He was known for his drive to address big
Overarching questions in physics
Subjects which he liked to say
Merged with philosophical questions about the origin of matter
Information and the universe
He was a young contemporary of Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr
Was a driving force
In the development of both the atomic and hydrogen bombs and
In later years
Became the father of modern general relativity
https://phys.org/...tor.html

Jul 31, 2019
I don't see why it has to be either/or. You can treat it as a force and use Newtonian TUG if you aren't absolutely in need of the nth decimal place; to get the most precise results you need to use GRT. Most things we do on a practical basis here in the Solar System don't need that level of precision; we just do those calculations when we're testing relativity.

Jul 31, 2019
What is being measured?
Here's a good article explaining the equation showing how the left hand side expresses the curvature (analogous to Newton's F) and the right hand side expresses the distribution of mass, energy, momentum, and pressure with the energy-momentum tensor T_uv along with Newton's constant and the speed of light -- see What is general relativity?

Jul 31, 2019
That's right, @Proto, the LHS is the curvature and the RHS is what makes it curve. That's a good way of discussing the Einstein equations. Einstein really had to study up on Ricci and Riemann's math to figure it out, and he also had to understand gravity-acceleration equivalence. That's why it took him so long.

Jul 31, 2019
The one-electron-universe through the Wormhole

John Archibald Wheeler
American theoretical physicist
Responsible for reviving interest in general relativity
With Gregory Breit
Wheeler developed the concept
Of the Breit–Wheeler process
Best known for linking the term blackhole
Objects with gravitational collapse
Predicted in the 20th century
For coining the terms quantum-foam
Neutron-moderator
Wormhole
Hypothesizing the one-electron-universe
Worked on the Breit–Wheeler process
A mechanism by which
Photons can be potentially transformed into matter
In the form of electron-positron pairs

Jul 31, 2019
Quantum foam of Spacetime foam

Is the fluctuation of spacetime?
On very small scales
Due to quantum mechanics
The idea was devised by John Wheeler in 1955
With an incomplete theory of quantum gravity
It is impossible to be certain
What spacetime
Would look like at small scales
However
There is no reason
That spacetime needs to be fundamentally smooth
It is possible that instead
In a quantum theory of gravity
Spacetime would consist of many small
Ever-changing regions
In which space and time are not definite
But fluctuate in a foam-like manner
Wheeler suggested
That the Heisenberg uncertainty principle
Might imply that over sufficiently small distances
And sufficiently brief intervals of time,
The very geometry of spacetime fluctuates
These fluctuations
Could be large enough
To cause significant departures
From the smooth spacetime
Seen at macroscopic scales
Giving spacetime
A foamy character

Jul 31, 2019
first tests was checking to see if light from a distant star curved around the sun, ofc it did

And plasma can do the same, especially with the dense plasma of the Sun right there.

Jul 31, 2019
first tests was checking to see if light from a distant star curved around the sun, ofc it did

And plasma can do the same, especially with the dense plasma of the Sun right there.

Are you talking about refraction?

Jul 31, 2019
first tests was checking to see if light from a distant star curved around the sun, ofc it did

And plasma can do the same, especially with the dense plasma of the Sun right there.

Are you talking about refraction?

Refraction by a dense atmosphere, absolutely.

Jul 31, 2019
first tests was checking to see if light from a distant star curved around the sun, ofc it did

And plasma can do the same, especially with the dense plasma of the Sun right there.

Are you talking about refraction?

Refraction by a dense atmosphere, absolutely.

And... is that dense "atmosphere" in motion?

Aug 01, 2019
first tests was checking to see if light from a distant star curved around the sun, ofc it did

And plasma can do the same, especially with the dense plasma of the Sun right there.

Are you talking about refraction?

Refraction by a dense atmosphere, absolutely.


Nope. And not a single relevant scientist is claiming that gravitational lensing is due to such things. More to the point, Einstein predicted the amount of lensing without recourse to plasma lensing woo. Nobody has been able to do that for 'refraction'.

Aug 01, 2019
A few other points to consider (thanks to various sources around the interweb);

> Gravitational lensing is achromatic. That is, it bends all frequencies of light by the same amount. This is not true of refraction.

> If the light is travelling through an atmosphere, you will get absorption spectra. That does not happen with GL.

Aug 01, 2019
Oh, another thing - the refraction by (Earth's) air is very close to that of vacuum. Within 0.03 %. The density of the solar corona is considerably less than that of air.

http://hyperphysi...drf.html

Aug 01, 2019
Plasma Is Quasi-Neutral

It is said, plasma is quasi-neutral
As
It is said, this solar-wind is quasi-neutral
Foreth this plasma
This notorious plasma
Whether as a CME, a plasmoid floating this vacuum
Or
In our Sun
For our Star is one humongous 800,000 mile ball of plasmatic plasma
Which
Like all plasma
Big or small, is quasi-neutral
It matters not, whether a quasi-neutral ball of plasma is spinning, it is still quasi-neutral

The moral of this quasi-neutrality
This spinning plasmatic Sun is not the driving force of our Suns electric current
For if any one doubts this observation
Ask cantdrive
Fore cantdrive will tell you, in no uncertain terms
That jonesdave, has admonished cantdrive, concerning these currents in rotating plasma
For jonesdave, has said on innumerable occasions, to numeral to counter
Plasma Is Quasi-Neutral

Aug 01, 2019
they admit gravity isn't even a force
tbf, they're paraphrasing Einstein and Wheeler. In Einstein's GR he determined that massive objects cause a distortion in space-time, which is felt as gravity, that is, gravity is most accurately described by the general theory of relativity which describes gravity not as a force, but as a consequence of the curvature of spacetime caused by the uneven distribution of mass. And Wheeler's well known quote is, "Spacetime tells matter how to move; matter tells spacetime how to curve."
says proto

It would have been more accurate if Wheeler had said, "Space tells matter how to move; matter tells Space how to curve". Since 'time' has no capability of moving or curving matter or Space.


Aug 02, 2019
It would have been more accurate if Wheeler had said, "Space tells matter how to move; matter tells Space how to curve". Since 'time' has no capability of moving or curving matter or Space.
Not sure how you don't realize this, but motion simply isn't possible without time, in fact motion is expressed in units of distance over time...

Aug 02, 2019
@Protoplasmix
@S_E_U.
It would have been more accurate if Wheeler had said, "Space tells matter how to move; matter tells Space how to curve". Since 'time' has no capability of moving or curving matter or Space.
motion simply isn't possible without time, in fact motion is expressed in units of distance over time
Careful, @Proto, that is a circuitous counter-argument. I already elsewhere pointed out to @Castro that the "second" is a defined/derived quantity/value (measuring motion of mass/energy across space distances; as in clock gear rotation/tick; orbital motions etc). It is not a fundamental 'thing'; only abstract analytical/mathematical 'comparative result' by reference to a chosen 'standard' system of 'motion-across-space'.

You probably meant: "duration"; from the fact 'process' and 'existence' HAPPENS ALL OVER CONTINUOUSLY but is temporally/spatially 'subdivided' by OUR minds into 'bits'.

BUT NEITHER 'time' NOR 'duration' is fundamental/causative 'thing'. :)

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