Elon Musk: tech dreamer reaching for sun, moon and stars

March 5, 2017 by Glenn Chapman
Entrepreneur Elon Musk has an estimated current net worth of $13.4 billion from interests in transport, payments and space technology

Sending tourists for a trip around the moon is the latest big idea launched by Elon Musk, a Silicon Valley star known for turning his passions into visionary enterprises.

Musk has become one of the United States' best-known innovators. He was a founder of payments company PayPal, electric carmaker Tesla Motors and SpaceX, maker and launcher of rockets and spacecraft.

SpaceX recently announced that two private citizens have paid money to be sent around the Moon in what would mark the farthest humans have ever traveled to deep space since the 1970s.

In a sector where entrepreneurs often speak of "moonshots," Musk is one of the biggest dreamers.

The 45-year-old South Africa-born entrepreneur has channeled a dot-com fortune into a series of ambitious ventures.

Besides being the head of SpaceX and Tesla, Musk is the chairman of SolarCity, a solar panel installer recently bought by Tesla.

He also operates his own foundation focusing on education, clean energy and child health.

And he drafted a paper detailing the feasibility of an ultra-fast "Hyperloop" rail transport system that would transport people at near supersonic speeds, then made it freely available to enterprises willing to pursue the project.

The SpaceX plan to fly tourists around the Moon in 2018

'Doesn't sit around'

"He is a visionary who has some key passions which he pursues with vigor," Jackdaw Research chief analyst Jan Dawson said of Musk.

"He doesn't sit around and wait for people to do something about them; he goes out and does it himself."

Musk's penchant for rocketing after his passions may appear to spread him thin, but he has built a record of success.

Musk appears strong on painting big ideas in broad strokes and then enlisting people skilled at tending to the nuts-and-bolts work needed to follow through, say observers.

"He doesn't seem to be able to focus," analyst Rob Enderle of Enderle Group said.

"He just likes coming up with the ideas and is good at picking other people who can deal with the plumbing—that is why he is able to do a lot of stuff."

And while some may wonder whether hubris or realism reigns in Musk's moves, his businesses have gained value, with the jury still out on the wisdom of the Tesla acquisition of SolarCity.

"He can certainly sell his ideas," Enderle said.

Visionary or mad scientist—Elon Musk's Tesla aims to conquer the car market in the oil-rich Middle East with electric vehicles

"The fact his businesses have held together so long indicates he is not a con man."

Fighting against evil

Musk more than a year ago took part in creating a nonprofit research company devoted to developing artificial intelligence that will help people and not hurt them.

Musk found himself in the middle of a technology world controversy by holding firm that AI could turn on humanity and be its ruin instead of a salvation.

Technology giants including Google, Apple and Microsoft have been investing in making machines smarter, contending the goal is to improve lives.

"If we create some digital super-intelligence that exceeds us in every way by a lot, it is very important that it be benign," Musk said at a conference in California.

He reasoned that even a benign situation with ultra-intelligent AI would put people so far beneath the machine they would be "like a house cat."

"I don't love the idea of being a house cat," Musk said, envisioning the creation of neural lacing that magnifies people's brain power by linking them directly to computing capabilities.

Elon Musk's SpaceX venture carries cargo to the International Space Station and has plans to send two private passengers on a trip around the Moon

Living in a game

Some of his ideas have prompted questions about whether Musk is a visionary or mad scientist. He has raised eyebrows with a theory that the world as it is known may be a computer simulation.

"I've had so many simulation discussions it's crazy," Musk said while fielding a question on the topic at the conference.

He maintained that "the odds that we are in base reality is one in billions."

Musk lives in Los Angeles and holds US, Canadian and South African citizenship.

He moved to Canada in his late teens and then to the United States, earning bachelor's degrees in physics and business from the University of Pennsylvania.

After graduating, Musk abandoned plans to pursue further studies at Stanford University and started Zip2, a company that made online publishing software for the media industry.

He banked his first millions before the age of 30 when he sold Zip2 to US computer maker Compaq for more than $300 million in 1999.

Musk's next company, X.com, eventually merged with PayPal, the online payments firm bought by Internet auction giant eBay for $1.5 billion in 2002.

Forbes estimates Musk's current net worth at $13.4 billion.

Explore further: Elon Musk an innovator wary of humanity's future

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entrance
5 / 5 (3) Mar 05, 2017
"it is very important that it be benign"

Our history is full of wars and crises. I think, that this proves that humanity isn't benign. Can a species that isn't benign create an AI that has such behaviour?

And even if we would be capable of creating such a new lifeform, there would always be the danger of security bugs, which hackers could use to transform a benign being into a killer machine.
Benni
3 / 5 (4) Mar 05, 2017
"He doesn't seem to be able to focus," analyst Rob Enderle of Enderle Group said.
"He just likes coming up with the ideas and is good at picking other people who can deal with the plumbing—that is why he is able to do a lot of stuff."
..........just love this. Enderle opines that the reason the guy can send rockets to the moon is because Musk "doesn't seem to be able to focus," , journalistic malpractice, something RNP would concoct from the deepest inner sanctums of cluelessness. Right RNP? You're a journalist, so maybe you could give us your professional insight as to why this quote from Enderle makes sense.

ugosugo
1.7 / 5 (6) Mar 05, 2017
As much as I envy him and I wish I had his drive, it is a matter of fact that all he is doing at this time, is being done with someone's else money.
His money worth is just on paper, as right now, none of spacex, tesla and solar city are actually producing any net profit
Benni
3 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
As much as I envy him and I wish I had his drive, it is a matter of fact that all he is doing at this time, is being done with someone's else money.
His money worth is just on paper, as right now, none of spacex, tesla and solar city are actually producing any net profit


So whose money is it he's using?
ugosugo
3 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
@ Benni
investors' money in form of stocks, who hope that sooner rather than later they will get that money back + interests, and federal grants (i.e. taxpyers' money)
duh!

example: Theranos CEO Elizabeth Holmes. Worth 4 billions a couple of years ago based on money invested in the company. Worth as today = about zero
DrMordrid
5 / 5 (1) Mar 05, 2017
At least use a picture of the correct vehicle. What's show is Cargo Dragon, aka Dragon 1, but people will ride on Crew Dragon, aka Dragon 2. Vastly different vehicles.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Mar 05, 2017
""If we create some digital super-intelligence that exceeds us in every way by a lot, it is very important that it be benign," Musk said at a conference in California."

-Well actually, lots of people are working on AI so if the advent of malevolent AI is possible then it is probably inevitable.

So musks version ought to be able at least to defend itself. And if it is serious about defending itself then it should be able to find the perpetrators who attacked it and make certain that they wont be able to do it again.

And if we make it as smart as we are then it wont just wait around to be attacked, it will actively seek to find and preempt potential attacks.

So i done really see a scenario where an AI can be benign unless the possibility of enemies is completely eliminated. Which means, of course, us.
KBK
5 / 5 (1) Mar 05, 2017
It won't be an intelligence we can project or categorize, as we'll be doing something we've never done before. We don't know what the components, mix, or the results of what a mess up is, in that arena. Our logic is not complete as our basis is not fully formed. And never will be.

The result will always be an eventual out of kilter disaster, in some way. Like trying to shoot an misunderstood and not perfectly built arrow... perfectly into an infinity... that we know not what is.

This is a very good area for fools to barge in and fuck us and this planet up, via.

Seeing how far that AI could reach and be involved in, a total screw up is inevitable.

Leave the can closed. At least as long as it is possible to do so, as each day we learn more is another day we can inch away from potential disasters.

Logically, first comes the warnings. Which Musk is engaged in.
PhysicsMatter
3 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
This is nothing but a race of Wall Street for yield they cannot find in safe treasury bonds and hence pushing ponzi schemes onto stock market and sell worthless money losing "stories" as solid investments. Elon as a member of college dropout mafia and as a corporate crony, benefits from this madness.

Each Tesla car was subsidized directly and indirectly with tens of thousands of dollars that ended up in Elon's pocket. His rocket business is all funded by government.

They are loosing money on every car they sold so far. Check even business MSM, Bloomberg, they warn that Tesla stock price of massively over valued. Their P/E ratio is like luxury items (cars) not mass production company. Competitors are closing in with massive production advantage and pricing power to crush Tesla.

Watch out as Elon will be bailed out again soon. It is nothing but a spectacle of massive moral hazard with no consequences to those cronies of Wall Street who gamble senseless.

PhysicsMatter
1 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
..death of tech savvy Tesla autopilot driver, on Williston, Florida highway, a collision in seemingly similar circumstances to Google when "..a tractor-trailer rig made a left turn in front of the Tesla at an intersection of a divided highway where there was no traffic light.." and hit its side with Tesla windshield, decapitating driver, raises serious concerns about true safety of the AV software and reliability of sensors, radar, ultrasonic, SfM optical used by those vehicles. What's disturbing is reaction of Musk who, after proudly pronouncing just four months before that Autopilot is "probably better than a person right now", subsequently is blaming this accident on a driver who likely "misused" the autopilot system for AV function and not just a cruise control. A telling attitude of a billionaire technological guru to all little earthlings who are not as perfect as Musk's creations.
https://sostratus...ture-av/
rderkis
not rated yet Mar 05, 2017
You all (redneck SLANG :-) do realize Elio Musk has SAID "A.I. is a demon in a bottle "
KBK
5 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
.. What's disturbing is reaction of Musk who, after proudly pronouncing just four months before that Autopilot is "probably better than a person right now", subsequently is blaming this accident on a driver who likely "misused" the autopilot system for AV function and not just a cruise control.
https://sostratus...ture-av/


He handled that EXACTLY the way he should have and the way anyone who was working in that area would Have. And I do mean before (his claims) during (statements immediately post accident) and in it's aftermath.

I'm guessing you don't know much about running a business in a real world scenario.
Benni
5 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
Musk has bigger problems than anyone knows, it's Donald Trump, he's about to gut the EPA. If Trump guts the EPA, the 54 MPG fuel efficiency standards set to kick in in 2025 will go into the toilet.

A car (?) with an ICE getting 54 MPG will be a very expensive car to build, it will require expensive exotic materials presently used only in high end car models thus jacking up the cost of a modest car close to or beyond $35K.

An EV for $40K has substantial maintenance advantages compared to an ICE. A vehicle with a 300 mile range, no exotic fabrication technology & materials (except the battery), & no emissions to worry about would be the death knell of automotive ICEs.
stripeless_zebra
1 / 5 (4) Mar 05, 2017
Elon, the Kim Il-Sung of America. The master of empty propaganda.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
Leave the can closed. At least as long as it is possible to do so, as each day we learn more is another day we can inch away from potential disasters
So call up china and the russians and ask them to please stop working on it because we are afraid of it. And please dont try to use it in any way militarily, like for instance to hack our weapons systems or to out-strategize our strategists because that would be wrong.

And also dont try to screw with free trade or fair competition because that could bankrupt us which isnt nice.

It will probably be a short phone call.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
Elon, the Kim Il-Sung of America. The master of empty propaganda
Hes got a rocket that can take off and land by itself, and ships delivering stuff to the ISS. And a huge new battery factory. And a few years ago everybody said that was just talk as well.
stripeless_zebra
1 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
Elon, the Kim Il-Sung of America. The master of empty propaganda
Hes got a rocket that can take off and land by itself, and ships delivering stuff to the ISS. And a huge new battery factory. And a few years ago everybody said that was just talk as well.


...and how much did he drain out of your pocket to build his fortune?
DrMordrid
5 / 5 (2) Mar 06, 2017
"and hit its side with Tesla windshield, decapitating driver, raises serious concerns about true safety of the AV software and reliability of sensors, radar, ultrasonic, SfM optical used by those vehicles. "

That was an earlier version of the software, in a vehicle without the extensive sensor array of today's Tesla S, in a vehicle whose instructions said to monitor the autodrive and not to depend on it. This dumbass driver was watching a DVD on his laptop.
rrrander
1 / 5 (1) Mar 06, 2017
Tired of this D.B., worshiped by unworldly millenials. He isn't getting to the "stars" with crappy old chemical rockets. Solar City is scandal plagued and people are going to JAIL over it. The fawning tech press never mention that.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Mar 06, 2017
At least he's promoting visions that are grounded in actual science fact. He's not peddling cold fusion or the like.

He has raised eyebrows with a theory that the world as it is known may be a computer simulation.

The weird thing is: This is not a novel statement. Those who raise their eyebrows only show their lack of classical education (i.e. they never heard of solipsism, Descartes, Indian philosophy (Butterfly dream) or maybe not even Plato's allegory of the cave).
Moreover they surely missed that he said 'may' - which means: this is an undecideable problem.

The 'odds' calculation of one-in-billions is ad-hoc, though. There is no way to put a number on this as any kind of evidence for or against is lacking.
Kron
not rated yet Mar 06, 2017
The 'odds' calculation of one-in-billions is ad-hoc, though. There is no way to put a number on this as any kind of evidence for or against is lacking.

The odds of this world not being a simulation SHOULD our species hold the potential to reach the point of simulating realities ourselves becomes infinitesimally small. If it is possible to simulate realities we are almost certainly living in one.

I'd even venture as far as to say that evidence in support of this hypothesis exists. I mean, reality is pixelated in the form of quanta for one.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (1) Mar 06, 2017
The weird thing is: This is not a novel statement. Those who raise their eyebrows only show their lack of classical education (i.e. they never heard of solipsism, Descartes, Indian philosophy (Butterfly dream) or maybe not even Plato's allegory of the cave)
-none of which has anything to do with scientific speculation on the subject.

This is like the idea that kant intuited quantum mechanics. How could he?

Scientists do not use 'classical educations' when trying to figure out how the world works and neither did musk.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (2) Mar 06, 2017
The odds of this world not being a simulation SHOULD our species hold the potential to reach the point of simulating realities ourselves becomes infinitesimally small

Not really, because information is a conserved quantity (apart from, possibly, with repsect to what happens in black holes). So no matter how complicated you make your simulation: if the simulation runs in this universe it will not be able to simulate this universe completely.

That a simulation can be created that will fool a creature generated within such a simulation does not tell you anything about the reality you live in (because it does not constitute *evidence* of anything). It just tells you it *might* be possible (which is exactly what Musk said). But humans already knew that thousands of years ago.

I mean, reality is pixelated in the form of quanta for one.

It's analog in other respects. It's probabilistic in other respects. None of this is evidence for (or against) anything.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (1) Mar 06, 2017
The thing is: To get any kind of information of whether we are running in a simulation or not you have to have some information about the 'outside'. Otherwise you face the same problem as a solipsist.
You'd need to to be able to find some broken piece in the simulation where you can actually measure that it *should* work in a certain way (because it works like that everywhere/everywhen else)

The only real argument to the issue I can find is a counterargument: Why would someone create a universe simulation in which only in a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiiiiiny, amount of runtime anything interesting happens (except, possibly, Boltzmann brains)?

Estimated time till last star burns out: 10^14 years
Estimated times till final state is reached: 10^10^120 years (no typo)

The time in which really absolutely nothing interesting *can* happen is staggering. No one with at least a minimum amount of brains would design a simulation like this.
antialias_physorg
5 / 5 (1) Mar 06, 2017
Here's another quirky take on this:

The only universe that you can definitely prove NOT to be a simulation is:

A completely random one*

(Downside is that nothing can live in such a universe for any length enough to show that this is so. A living/conscious thing would live in a 'freak' time of - perceived - non-randomness and thus never figure out the random nature until it's too late)

*caveat: if it happens that this fully random universe IS a simulation then the simulator has no control over it. Also the same counterargument about it being pretty pointless to have such a simulation running applies.
Mark Thomas
5 / 5 (3) Mar 06, 2017
Funny to watch the trolls come out to try to disparage Elon Musk. Such venomous hate for more efficient access to space, well-made electric cars and high-efficiency solar panels can only come from trolls and their followers. Looks like the Koch brothers disinformation machine is working as usual.
Colbourne
not rated yet Mar 06, 2017
The simulation theory has to allow for the fact that we have no clue how to simulate conscious. We can not even tell whether other humans are conscious. If it is possible to simulate consciousness I agree with Musk that we are probably living in a simulated universe.
Whydening Gyre
not rated yet Mar 06, 2017
Scientists do not use 'classical educations' when trying to figure out how the world works and neither did musk.

It's about pattern matching (organization) skills acquired while BEING "classically educated"...
That, and being in the right place at the right time...

Quantum Magician
5 / 5 (2) Mar 07, 2017
The claim that our Universe is just a simulation is unfalsifiable, and therefor unscientific.

Maybe a nice topic to kill some time while sipping your afternoon latté, but an entirely phylosophical one, and can not lead to any meaningful conclusions whatsoever.

For all that matters, it is in exactly the same ballpark as religion.
Quantum Magician
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 07, 2017
And Musk is a really great man, with one speciffic perk that puts him way above many others:
He makes things happen, instead of just talking about them.

Even if he pulls off only a fraction of all he has envisioned, he will be remembered as one of the greatest of his time.

Kicking the whole slumbering automotive industry in its "behind", finally sparking a race in the EV department - which signifficantly accelerates the transition towards emission-free transportation, is no small feat, and certainly ranks high on the list of what any individual has done for humanity in the last 100 years..
Dug
2.6 / 5 (5) Mar 07, 2017
"Musk is Great" paid PR time = New Cap raise so his investors can pay the debts of his greatness.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (1) Mar 07, 2017
It's about pattern matching (organization) skills acquired while BEING "classically educated"...
I think youre missing aa's point which was that scientists and/or musk somehow got the idea from classical musings, that perhaps they wouldnt have gotten the idea if they hadnt read descartes or plato. They got the idea from the evidence, something that classical thinkers werent privy to and didnt care about. Especially plato.
Waaalt
1 / 5 (2) Mar 09, 2017
And Musk is a really great man, with one speciffic perk that puts him way above many others:
He makes things happen, instead of just talking about them.


Of course Musk is eager to "make things happen." It always happens to involve massive transfers of public money to his empire.

Musk is an oligarch. Who in their right mind applauds an aristocrat who is connected enough to treat public funds like his own personal plaything? Only fools would cheer seeing our country head down that dark road to ruin. They especially love his style: he sells big dreams while they're all cynical cash grabs in practice. He's even literally trying to sell monorails now like on "The Simpsons."

That so many in the US are already so deluded is a very bad sign for things to come. We're already seeing the population forget the lessons learned from the miserable failure of the Soviet Union. If Musk is today's version of a Howard Hughes then we are doomed.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 09, 2017
Hey, . . Walt, . . ever driven an EV?

My PV and EV saved us $3000 last year. The solar system cost $12,600. I got the e-Golf for $17,300, a new car a year old.

It was not planned to be this good, but the PV system provides all the power we need for both house and automobile. For decades. No gas, no oil changes, no filters, no tune-ups, no emissions checks, you can drive in carpool lanes, and you "fill up" at home at night, cheaply.

It is true most of the advancements were there, but it took a Musk to put them together, someone with the resources to do it.

It is going to change our society in ways you have not imagined.
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
Hey, . . Walt, . . ever driven an EV?

My PV and EV saved us $3000 last year. The solar system cost $12,600..
You still peddling that lie? Cher, you should start planning for the "REAL" future. Google Earth is putting up the new satellite pictures for your area in three months. We are going to have big fun with that. Then both Calf DMV and Google Earth won't know you are the "REAL" glam-Skippy, with the "REAL" electric car and "REAL" solar panes.

but it took a Musk to put them together,
Maybe you should try to get a consulting job with him, eh?

"""Elon Musk: tech dreamer reaching for sun, moon and stars""""

You already have the silly looking pointy cap with the stars and moons on him to wear when you are consulting with him.

It is going to change our society in ways you have not imagined.
You come up with that gem of wisdom all by yourself?

Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 09, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
the PV system provides all the power we need for both house and automobile...you "fill up" at home at night, cheaply
blatantly false claim
again

you put power into the grid but you still require the grid to charge your EV at night - you do not in any way use your PV's to power your EV, especially at night

- so quit spreading misinformation and lies about your system

for anyone wondering about facts - read these links: http://www.pge.co...options/

http://www.pge.co...S_EV.pdf

http://www.seia.o...reements

per your own request then...
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
Poor Rumpy. He knows how my system works, I've told him many times, but I got him mad, and now he stalks me, having an entire dossier online on me. Ask him about his unhealthy fixation.

I wonder who else he stalks, . . .

And yes, our PV solar system produced the same amount of electrical power we used last year for both house and automobile. Simple facts.

Rumpy thinks it is impossible, not having ever been in the electric power business.

gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 09, 2017
"Google Earth is putting up the new satellite pictures for your area in three months. We are going to have big fun with that. Then both Calf DMV and Google Earth won't know you are the "REAL" glam-Skippy, with the "REAL" electric car and "REAL" solar panes."
----------------------------------

Oh, good. But my phone app of Google Earth has my panels shown easily. I suggest you go there. Meanwhile, I'll send you some pics of the panels and the car by email.

Then, you can admit who you really are. I promise to not hurt you.
Uncle Ira
3.9 / 5 (7) Mar 09, 2017
Oh, good.
Yeah, I think so.

But my phone app of Google Earth has my panels shown easily.
You can't help yourself can you?

suggest you go there.


I suppose a really stupid person would think I did not already do that.

Meanwhile, I'll send you some pics of the panels and the car by email.
If you are going to send the solar panes on your neighbor's roof, I already seen them. And whatever car you send me a picture of, be sure to include the license plate, then I can tell you who owns it too.

Then, you can admit who you really are. I promise to not hurt you.
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
Then, you can admit who you really are. I promise to not hurt you.
1- this is an explicit threat

2- none of your other posts contain any information, links or references that refute my evidence based points about your own solar system

you want to debate facts and you think you're knowledgeable per your claimed experience, so why can't you show any evidence ???

per your own claim to rid the site of sniping trolls who can't debate science with evidence - reported
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
You said you tried to "find" my car in the California database, but spent $12 and failed. I tried to send you to the Google on your phone, but you failed.

Aren't you the guy who thinks kWh and Btu measure the same thing? Okay, . . a kWh is thermally equivalent to 3412 Btu, and I will send you 4,000 Btu for every KWh you deliver to me.

Is it a deal? Aren't they "equivalent"? You get to keep the overage.

That is why we do not let mechanical engineers into Silicon Valley unless we need tradesmen.
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
Do not try to dodge the question of Btu and kWh, "Ira".
Uncle Ira
3.3 / 5 (7) Mar 09, 2017
Aren't you the guy who thinks kWh and Btu measure the same thing?
They do Cher. Both are measures of energy (sometimes work.)

No different than gallons and liters, they both are measures of volumes.

Just like pounds and newtons, they are both are measures of force.

Just like slugs and kilograms, they both measure mass.

Just like watts and joules/sec and hp, they are all three measures of power.

That is why you are a goober and I am not. Because your "experience" does not allow you think in terms of First Principles. "Experience" without an underlying knowledge of the principles, will always lead to bad habits and a closed mind.
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
Stop dancing around babbling about other stuff. I offered you 4,000 Btu for each kWh you deliver. You say they are equivalent, and they are not.

We pay usually 3.5 times for equivalent heating value of electricity over thermal energy because it is the other factors which make it so valuable.

Do I have to ask again whether your phone and computer (or refrigerator or washing machine), run on heat instead of electric and magnetic fields? Hmmmm?

You are SO last century.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
George kamburoff, psychopath and attention whore, just hijacks ANOTHER thread.

What an ass. Why wont mods ban him for chronic OT flooding and exposing himself in public?
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
"What an ass"
-------------------------------

Well, thank you, "otto". I work out.

But your nose is cold.

Thaw it out with Ira's thermal phone.
Arthur_McBride
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
Stop dancing around babbling about other stuff. I offered you 4,000 Btu for each kWh you deliver. You say they are equivalent, and they are not.
@ gkam. Are you really so ignorant as that or are you just trying to grasp at straws to recover from a FAIL that can not repaired?

Do you even know what your mate Ira was trying to say about "First Principles"? Do you even know what 1st Principles are?

You are SO last century.
And you are SO the igit. When you claim to have taught thousands of engineers, you are not only lying, you are doing it really badly. Where did you get your engineering "knowledge"? I suspect it may have been from reading Popular Science back in the "last century", it certainly goes no deeper than that..
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
Artie, do you understand the difference between 3412 Btu of electricity and 3412 Btu of heat?

Do you? Come on, I'll make you the same deal. After all, they are equivalent, . . right?

We use magnetic and electric fields for our important work now, not just the brute-force of mechanics. The heat equivalence does not show equal quality. That is like judging your wife only by her weight. Or color. Or other irrelevancy. She is a complex Human, with qualities which dwarf the simple first principle.

Get over your irritation and start thinking.

Yeah, I did teach a lot of folk in those 20 years. You should have been in one of the classes.
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
Artie, do you understand the difference between 3412 Btu of electricity and 3412 Btu of heat?
Hey moron, if you did not notice, that is not what you claiming before. Adding words to your proposition is cheating Cher. Now knock it off.

Btu's and kWh's. That is what you started with. glam-Skippy, you are as dumb as cypress stump and don't mind proving it.

Yeah, I did teach a lot of folk in those 20 years.
But I bet you can not convince Arthur-Skippy you taught 33,000 engineers the stuff they couldn't learn in school.

You should have been in one of the classes.
@ Arthur-Skippy. How you are Cher? I am good even though you did not ask.

Hooyeei, I wish I could have been in one of the classes, eh? That was probably more great big fun than fooling around with here on the physorg. I wonder did he wear his silly looking pointy cap (with the stars and moons on him)? Cher I tell you true, that would be the YouTube that would go viral.
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
come on Mister Mechanical Engineer, you said they are equivalent and I told you they were not, because you cannot understand the principles of the dual force in the Universe, electromagnetism. If you think the value of electricity is in the heat value, once again, I want you to tell me how your phone works on heat.

They must teach you "real engineers" how to look things up, and not understand them.

I know I taught a lot of "real" engineers how electricity really works. But they wanted to learn, and did not suffer from emotional weaknesses and fixations, like we see here.
Uncle Ira
4 / 5 (8) Mar 09, 2017
you said they are equivalent
Non, I did not say they are equivalent. I said Btu and kWh are both measures of the same thing. Energy(or work). They are.

I told you they were not
Don't matter who you tell that to, because they are.

you cannot understand the principles of the dual force in the Universe
You sure do look silly when you try the scientific talk. Electromagnetism is a single force moron. And since I can do Maxwell's equations, Fourier analysis, Hamitonians, Laplacians, I am pretty sure I do understand it. I would never call it the "duel force in the Universe". Let me know when you can "teach" me about curls, divs and grads (without saying something stupid like "duel force in the Universe")

I know I taught a lot of "real" engineers how electricity really works.
You might have "taught a lot of "real" engineers" to laugh. But Cher that is the sort of stupid thing you say that puts the GREAT BIG FUNNY LIE to everything you write.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 09, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam says
you said they are equivalent
Ira actually said
A kWh is not a measure of any kind of power. It is a measure of work and energy. Mostly used for electricity in the U.S.of A., even here it is just a measure of energy. kW are for power, like my engines, eh?

A BTU is not a measure of "heat". It is a measure of work and energy too. Mostly used by HVAC guys in the U.S.of A., but it is just a measure of energy.

kWh and BTU's can be converted from one to the other using nothing but a pencil and paper (or calculator), They both are based on joules.
https://phys.org/...rgy.html

which agrees with Arthur H. Rosenfeld, CA Energy Commission and Satish Kumar, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

so, if you can produce some verifiable documentation that proves them wrong, by all means, let us know so we can forward it to Berkeley and your own CA energy commission

otherwise - reported per your own request
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 09, 2017
I know I taught a lot of "real" engineers how electricity really works
-and then you got fired. Again. Maybe they didnt expect the course to be an autobiography.

George kamburoff has engineered an entire personal history.

"... [psychopaths are] manipulators, liars, and fabricators of truth. They do so convincingly because they believe their own lies. After all their life is nothing but a lie, a sham, how can we possibly assume they know anything different."
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
"Ira", either you are intentionally being obtuse or you are genuinely a shallow and simplistic thinker.

My gosh, have none of you heard of electricity or electric fields or communications using electromagnetic waves? The idea you can take the heat value or electricity as its basic value betrays an inability to understand electromagnetism.

"Maxwell's equations, Fourier analysis, Hamitonians, Laplacians"? I do not mean cranking out equations like a calculator or someone you hire for a job. In Power Quality, one must understand how these fields and frequencies act in wires and how they interact in system components. You have to think, which is what I taught from 1982 in Technical Services to 2006 and retirement.

BTW my equipment did all that math for me, fourier analyses and Digital Signal Processors (I made ICs from 1972-74, actually working as an electronic engineer. Maybe you forgot).
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 09, 2017
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-kam
My gosh, have none of you heard of electricity or electric fields or communications using electromagnetic waves?
1- entire post is irrelevant OT crap and attempting to redirect the conversation from the facts

2- if you are correct, why is it that Arthur H. Rosenfeld, CA Energy Commission and Satish Kumar, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory agree with Ira? (a real engineer)

3- you blatantly lied about what was said by Ira, and then misrepresented that argument here, as proven by my above link

which leads us to:

4- you still didn't produce any links, references or other material that can be used to validate your claim and refute the claims made by Ira, Rosenfeld and Kumar

so, per your own request to clean up the site...
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Mar 10, 2017
No, Rumpy, it is that you are just unable to forget how mad you got.

When you put your thermal computer out tonight, don't forget to douse the coals.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 10, 2017
BTW my equipment did all that math for me, fourier analyses and Digital Signal Processors (I made ICs from 1972-74, actually working as an electronic engineer
-And you LOST that job as well haha
Maybe you forgot
-Forgot that you could never hold a job you lied yourself into? Forgot that you crapped out of 3 undergrad colleges? Forgot that you sat on your ass for 10 years 'consulting' because HR depts meant you could never work 'in the business' again?

WHAT a loser. Pull your pants back up george. Nobodys interested.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 10, 2017
Stop pulling them down, "otto", . . your nose is cold.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Mar 10, 2017
"-Forgot that you could never hold a job you lied yourself into? Forgot that you crapped out of 3 undergrad colleges? Forgot that you sat on your ass for 10 years 'consulting' because HR depts meant you could never work 'in the business' again?"
-----------------------------------------

Oh, my, . . . Get that in a 3 AM tweet?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Mar 11, 2017
"-Forgot that you could never hold a job you lied yourself into? Forgot that you crapped out of 3 undergrad colleges? Forgot that you sat on your ass for 10 years 'consulting' because HR depts meant you could never work 'in the business' again?"
-----------------------------------------

Oh, my, . . . Get that in a 3 AM tweet?
?? You told us all about your failed career and your lack of education. Dont you remember?

The question is why you told us. Why you brag about losing so many jobs. Why you're so proud of your store-bought MS.

Why youre obviously so sick.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Mar 11, 2017
Thanks, Elon. Our e-Golf has saved us 750 gallons of expensive California-blended gasoline.

I feel sorry for the conservatives, whose personal pique keeps them from enjoying the fruits of liberal science. It is the price of emotional instability.

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