Society set for head-on collision with driverless cars

A driver sits in an Uber self-driving car in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on September 13, 2016
A driver sits in an Uber self-driving car in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on September 13, 2016
Evangelists for driverless cars see a bright future coming down the road: thousands of lives saved, countless driving hours freed up, cityscapes transformed with traffic jams vanquished.

But the also threatens millions of jobs and raises a slew of ethical dilemmas—prospects that were on the minds of business chiefs and politicians meeting at the World Economic Forum this week.

"Companies are going to have to start thinking about it, governments are going to have to start thinking about it," said Missy Cummings, the director of the Humans and Autonomy Lab at Duke University in North Carolina.

"The reality is we can't just keep our head in the sand like an ostrich," she told AFP in Davos, singling out the coming impact on employment.

In the United States alone, an estimated four million people work as truckers, taxi drivers and in other jobs that are under threat when the driverless vehicles come into widespread use—a matter of years, experts predict.

In October, delivery drivers got an uncomfortable glimpse of the future when a self-driving truck built by Uber's Otto unit successfully delivered a beer shipment.

New game, new players

Cars with some autonomous functions—such as the ability to adjust the speed—are already on our roads, and more than a dozen automakers including BMW, Kia, Volkswagen and General Motors are racing to get fully self-driving cars to market by 2020.

Champions of the technology point to its potential to reduce the 1.3 million road deaths worldwide each year—too many of them at the hands of a tired or distracted driver, or one who simply did not react fast enough.

The auto industry is already changing fast thanks to the advent of services like Uber and electric vehicles, and carmakers are eyeing both the threats and opportunities.

Renault-Nissan chief Carlos Ghosn summed up the transformations as a "reshuffling of the cards" for the industry.

"There is a new game, let's see who is going to be able to prevail," he told an audience in Davos.

The dash for driverless technology is bringing new players into the car business, notably Google, Apple and BlackBerry.

The disruption will create jobs too—engineering posts and roles in any number of new services. There is talk of mobile doctors' surgeries and moving nail salons.

But the transition will be painful, not least because most cabbies and truck drivers are not qualified to slide seamlessly into new engineering roles.

"We don't have, at this point, really well designed (plans) for re-education," said EU transport commissioner Violeta Bulc at a panel in Davos.

"All this massive change that has not been experienced before, because digitalisation is really making dramatic shifts."

Driverless car technology threatens millions of jobs and raises a slew of ethical dilemmas—prospects that were on the minds of b
Driverless car technology threatens millions of jobs and raises a slew of ethical dilemmas—prospects that were on the minds of business chiefs and politicians meeting at the World Economic Forum this week

Offices on the move

How to regulate the new vehicles is already giving a headache to authorities around the world.

Inga Beale, CEO of the Lloyd's of London insurance market, said in Davos that insurers were having to grapple with the question of liability in case of an accident.

The US government unveiled a regulatory framework in September, but the carmakers are having to deal with ethical and legal dilemmas too.

At the extreme end, if an intelligent car is faced with the terrible choice of killing one person to swerve around a crowd of five, what should it do?

There was some relief for the industry when the US government this week found no safety-related defect in a fatal crash involving a Tesla car on autopilot last May.

In public, auto bosses are focusing on the ways that going driverless is going to change our lives for the better.

Ghosn painted a picture of a world where we are liberated not only to check our emails or watch TV while in the driver's seat, but also run an entire office on the move.

"You can be in the car and do everything you're doing in the house or in the office—except that it's mobile," he enthused.

Eventually, automated transport systems and innovations such as shared car ownership could free up our congested cities and clean up our air, promoters say.

For now, the approach is safety-first: the beer-delivering Uber truck had a human watching from the cabin, and a police car in tow.


Explore further

Driverless truck from Uber's Otto makes Colorado beer delivery

© 2017 AFP

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Jan 20, 2017
It's still too premature to cry over lost jobs, because the technology hasn't been deployed yet beyond individual prototype cases and proofs of concept. It's like the first picturephones invented in the 60's and sold by AT&T - it took almost 50 years before video chats actually became commonplace and even now it's still a bit crap.

In terms of the Gartner hype cycle, we're still climbing up the peak of inflated expectations and haven't yet hit the through of disillusionment.

https://en.wikipe...eral.png

Next comes the first large scale applications and then the things start crashing and driving people over, and everyone goes back to the drawing board for the next decade or two while the computer scientists try to figure out how to give the car enough brains to actually drive itself.

The upshot is, once we get to version two, all the sensors etc. have also evolved to the point where they're not crippled by a touch of snow

Jan 20, 2017
It will not be the driverless car which forces great changes, it will be the EV itself, no matter who drives it.

Many will be caught unaware by the rapid change-over from ICE to EV. It will be the greatest societal upset since the automobile itself.

Jan 20, 2017
what gets me , lots of people like to actually drive, so now they will be turned into deskilled veggies , at least thats the bilderburger plan

Jan 20, 2017
so you shift cars onto the power grid , EVs work as second cars or with a second car for distance.

Jan 20, 2017
"so you shift cars onto the power grid , . . "
-----------------------------------

So that's a big deal.

Go talk to your local gas station and auto mechanic.

Jan 20, 2017
https://en.wikipe...ous_cars

Fully self-driving cars have only been technically possible for a decade or so. It wasn't until the DARPA Challenge of 2007 that a car was able to complete a constructed urban course fully without human intervention along the way - yet the history of autonomous vehicles goes back to 1920's or pretty much as far as there have been automobiles. Vehicles that don't rely on some special road-embedded guides have been around since the 1980s.

The problems involved in autonomous driving - perception, reasoning, planning - are hard problems of AI and it seems to me we've been making somewhat linear progress in that area mostly thanks to computers evolving exponentially in capacity to run the exponentially complex AI models.

Yet the actual AIs are still only as intelligent as a flatworm. Knowing that, it's hard to imagine we'd have a reasonably dependable self-driving car for another two decades at least.

Jan 20, 2017
It will be the greatest societal upset since the automobile itself.


Why?

If it's just as good as a regular automobile, what difference does it make? If it's not as good, why have it?

Riddle me this: since a large lithium battery has a shelf life of under ten years and costs the price of a new car, where do you get the old second hand electric cars that 60-70% of Americans buy since they can't afford new cars?

You have the majority of people out there who have to take a loan to buy a second hand car, and yet more who cannot spend more than $5000 on a car because they simply don't make enough. The lowest tier of highway capable electric cars with minimum range go for $35k.

That's a societal upset in the sense that a lot of people will be very upset if that's all they can get.

Jan 20, 2017
Eikka has no EV, so he speaks from prejudice only.

I bought ours for $17,400. It was last year's model, and had the rebate. We saved over 675 gallons of expensive California-blended gasoline last year. And our home PV system put out sufficient energy to operate it and the house all year.

Keep on finding reasons to deny the inevitable. You can stay home and carp about all the things you do not like about EVs while we enjoy ours.

Jan 20, 2017
AI and it seems to me we've been making somewhat linear progress in that area mostly thanks to computers .

.
Of course it seems like we have been making only linear progress. But that is because we only see things from our life span. The FACT is, pretty much ALL technology is growing exponentially.
We are on the cusp of where the curve starts accelerating fast enough we as human beings will be truly able to perceptive the change. And soon that change will be dizzying to us.
Check out this website or google the words "exponential growth" "technology" to research what's happening.

http://theemergin...ment.htm

Jan 20, 2017
"we as human beings will be truly able to perceptive the change."
---------------------------

We already see it. My wife drives on sunshine, essentially.

Jan 20, 2017
so those LA traffic jams are solar powered ?

Jan 20, 2017
Might it be easier to reengineer the humans to keep them awake and not distracted? The car and insurance industries could have been putting pressure on digital device makers to help solve the latest problems rather than causing them. A modern car or add-on accessory should be able to disable a phone's texting when the car is moving.

Simple brain stimulation via static electrical shocks through the earbuds when the brain shows signs of nodding off?
Audible warnings when the speed limit is exceeded or an impending collision shouldn't be any trickier than what ubiquitous GPS units can do today.

Jan 20, 2017
I'm looking forward to the day when the companies that laid off all their drivers in favor of automated vehicles will have those same automated vehicles cause a massive deadly car accident or two and will be sued into bankruptcy.

Jan 20, 2017
What will become of all those serial killer truck drivers?

Jan 20, 2017
everything is ok, ignore what is happening, itll only hurt for a bit, pretty soon we will be free from the capitalistic ruse and enjoying post-scarcity life hooked up to the machine god, no more suffering, no more problems, just whatever you want, most-likely death, ya thats what you want, you want nothing when you know everything

Jan 21, 2017
ignore what is happening,


What choice do we have? I am the oldest one here, and even I know you can't stop technological progress. Oh sure, you might slow it down some, but no one can stop it.

Besides that 95% of all the technological progress I have seen in my lifetime has been good or even great!
Why should I become a pessimist like you and disregard what 70 years of tech progress has taught me, on your say so?

Jan 21, 2017
I bought ours for $17,400.


Oh, you mean the E-Golf that you don't actually have?

The 2015 model starting price was $36,265 which goes down to $29k with the tax rebate.

Jan 21, 2017
We are on the cusp of where the curve starts accelerating fast enough we as human beings will be truly able to perceptive the change. And soon that change will be dizzying to us.


The Moore's law has been dead for two decades if it ever was anything. The whole accelerating acceleration business is just wishful thinking and marketing bullshit - we're heading towards energy scarcity and increasing cost of development.

The FACT is, pretty much ALL technology is growing exponentially.


That's an illusion created by the fact that any individual technology will develop exponentially until it reaches its potential and then the curve flattens out. When people look at individual technologies in their exponential phase, and then turn their gaze to other technologies, and yet others, it creates the illusion that everything is going "up" because you're only looking at it when it's going up.

Everything's going up, but the upgoings are fewer and further between.

Jan 21, 2017
The main issue with the accelerating technology argument is that you can't stack individual tecnologies or inventions on one another and say "look the technology is growing!". That's completely nonsensical - it doesn't mean anything.

You can measure some things, like the number of transistors on a chip, but that doesn't have anything to do with any abstract "level of technology". You can say the number is growing, but what does it mean? What will happen if the number reaches X? Well, that depends on a whole bunch of other things.

Already we can make a huge chip with the X number of transistors. Does it mean it's just a matter of building it, and Poof we have an AI good enough to drive a car? Of course not. That's just cargo cult engineering. Doing more of the same stupid thing doesn't necessarily turn it into a smart thing. So far all advances in AI are doing just that - doing the same dumb things faster and faster

Someone has to also figure out how intelligence works.

Jan 21, 2017
The guy who invented the BEAM bots in the 80's if I recall correctly, commented something on the lines of: Intelligence in nature is trying to create order out of chaos. Computer scientists working on AI are trying to recreate chaos out of order.

It's like trying to calculate a random number. There's no mathematical, logical rule that can create a random number - at best you can create a bunch that look random but aren't. That is, theirs is a fundamentally different starting point, which makes the hard tasks like solving a quadratic equation very easy and fast, and the easy tasks like looking to your right and seeing and percieving a cyclist on the sidewalk very very hard and slow.

So now we're just starting to employ the different way, by neuromorphic circuits and simulations, and they're still just like a child's drawing of the subject. Crude and fairly useless for practical purposes - still 20 years out down the line.

Jan 21, 2017
In my mind the biggest changes will be the end of speeders.
You see, self driving cars obey the speed limit and they are not intimated by tail-gaiters. You will also see individuals who want to drive their own cars muscled out by rapidly increasing insurance costs. No one is going to want to insure a driver who is 10 times more likely to cause an accident. AND no more idiots squealing tires at night when you are trying to sleep.

Jan 21, 2017
I'm looking forward to the day when the companies that laid off all their drivers in favor of automated vehicles will have those same automated vehicles cause a massive deadly car accident or two and will be sued into bankruptcy.


Just like every car manufacturer was sued into bankruptcy and we all have horse and carriages again? Or like how every elevator manufacturer was sued and now we all use the stairs?

Soon autonomous cars are going to be far safer than "manual" cars. Insurance rates will go down on them and they'll take over a lot faster than most people are ready for. The biggest issue in my mind is driving on snow and ice, maybe for the beginning there will times when the human has to stay in control.

Lost jobs are a serious issue, ten million at risk from just this innovation and nowhere near that many created. The next decade is going to be really tricky for the economy, Trump might slow us down enough to change the timeline, but even he can't prevent i

Jan 21, 2017
"The Moore's law has been dead for two decades if it ever was anything. The whole accelerating acceleration business is just wishful thinking and marketing bullshit - we're heading towards energy scarcity and increasing cost of development."
---------------------------------

Nope. It was never a law, but an approximation. We did not assume it would hold for as long as it did. But it did.

No energy scarcity here. Yesterday I passed an entire town of houses with solar PV. It was in view of wind turbines in the San Joaquin Delta. Where do you live?

Jan 21, 2017
The Moore's law has been dead for two decades if it ever was anything.


I am sorry but I never mentioned moor's law. And I don't think anyone else here did ether. Except in reply to your mistaken idea one of us did. Besides Google is claiming that its D-Wave quantum computer can solve certain problems 100 million times faster than an ordinary computer. (Even if they are off by 90% that would blow moor's law away.
As far as denying technology is not developing faster and faster. You must be a vary young man, not to see it for yourself. Name a common technology that has not grown exponentially in my lifetime. (70 years)
(tvs, phones, cars, planes etc)

Jan 21, 2017
And our home PV system put out sufficient energy to operate it and the house all year.

More lies from the Pathological LIAR gskam.

Tell us, what's the power output of your PV system and how much it cost?

Jan 21, 2017
No, anti, you get nothing from me after all your nastiness..

Go buy your own system, Mister Polluter.


Jan 21, 2017
No, anti, you get nothing from me after all your nastiness..

Go buy your own system, Mister Polluter.


LOL
I've gotten nothing but Pathological LIES from you, so thanks for stopping.

Jan 21, 2017
Who is working on the standards for road signs and such? It seems to be a first step if we are to have this change in transportation. Perhaps retrofitting certain roads at first, made for autonomous driving? I think a few main routes can show the potential, while we work out the bugs.

Jan 21, 2017
Google is claiming that its D-Wave quantum computer can solve certain problems 100 million times faster than an ordinary computer. (Even if they are off by 90% that would blow moor's law away.

Notice the 'certain problems'. The types of stuff you can calculate quickly with a quantum computer and the type of stuff you can calculate quickly with the regular kind are different. it really depends on the problem whether one can beat out the other.

Quantum computers will be very cool stuff, no doubt. But they are not an automatic 'step up' in computing power because that's like comparing apples to oranges. .

Jan 21, 2017
Perhaps retrofitting certain roads at first, made for autonomous driving? I think a few main routes can show the potential, while we work out the bugs.

You truly have more in common with the Donald than you'll believe -- You are LIKE a smart person, too.
Please enlighten us as to what these retrofits are?

Jan 21, 2017
the law of accelerating returns anyone? exponential trends go beyond moores law, heck even before it
performance/$ will continue its trend, regardless of substrate
another word for whats happening is ephemeralization, be very afraid of it
btw, Eikka you are not paying attention, Nvidia and AMD are way ahead of you
AI has been advancing exactly as it should

read up on the history
Alan Turing's unorganized machines and the perceptron

the brain is not special, if evolution could arrived at it, so can we artificially

Jan 21, 2017
Already we can make a huge chip with the X number of transistors. Does it mean it's just a matter of building it, and Poof we have an AI good enough to drive a car? Of course not. That's just cargo cult engineering
God. Eikka will still be denying the reality and superiority of AI cars when he is riding to the kidney clinic in one. Which will be any day now?
No energy scarcity here. Yesterday I passed an entire town of houses with solar PV. It was in view of wind turbines in the San Joaquin Delta. Where do you live?
Where do you live little psychopath? Simcity? We know your PV and EV are lies for attention-getting purposes.

We give rabid dogs the same sort of attention for security purposes.

Jan 21, 2017
what i find surprising is the number of people who would give up the experience of having a machine as an extension of the body.
Also WHO? exactly is behind this grand plan of taking away our rights to create this fabled new transportation system.
Luckily its unlikely to work , some as safety features i think but full autonomous still has external and equipment failure risks.
And what about off road driving? full robot means the back country will be off limits.

Jan 21, 2017
Luckily its unlikely to work , some as safety features i think but full autonomous still has external and equipment failure risks
Humans have many more such 'failures' per capita which is why machines are intrinsically superior. Plus AI can be systematically improved with lessons learned while we are stuck with the same old percentage of human dumfuks per capita.

Jan 21, 2017
WHO? exactly is behind this grand plan of taking away our rights to create this fabled new transportation system.

Me, and almost every senior citizen like me that are not competent to drive anymore but have little choice. Then we have all the disabled people who will experience new freedom of movement. Next we have everyone that has lost a loved one or neighbor to a drunk drive or other impaired driver. Plus all those people that are tired of traffic jams and the overwhelming pollution caused by those traffic jams. And what about all the parents of young children who realize on average in 2012, 92 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. each day, in 30,800 fatal crashes during the year.
The autonomous cars will not have to progress far to better that death record.

Jan 21, 2017
Ghost, i suspect when various failures add up there will be no adavantage. Anyway the people, which is all , who fly over the hill and past my house will love big brother forcing them to crawl at the posted speed. LOL or i guess the ideal is this;

https://www.youtu...QPV-iCkU

Jan 21, 2017
rderkis , sorry to hear of your circumstance , i may well end in the same position , i hope a solution can be found for all. But i fear the PC bunch would love to trample the rights of the majority.

Jan 21, 2017
derky, I'm with you on that one. I've had too many restricted relatives who could not drive who would find this a godsend.

Jan 21, 2017
Quote snoosebaum "The rights of the majority?"


What RIGHTS gets trampled? I guess I failed to see the right to PHYSICALLY drive a vehicle in the Constitution or any of the amendments. Have you decided to add it and not tell anyone?

It's kind of like the none existent "right to privacy" that gets talked about so much. Once again there is no mention of privacy in the constitution or the amendments. Don't get me wrong I wish there were, but what's that saying "wish in one hand sh** in the other"

Jan 21, 2017
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Jan 21, 2017
Snoosebaum, I am a vary patriotic American but I am not sure courts can grant rights equal to the weight the Constitution carries. If you think otherwise then you are for the torture and killing of our children as a woman's right.

Jan 21, 2017
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Jan 21, 2017
I can read classified ads from a century ago in newspaper archives and see adverts for people trying to get rid of their electric cars...

Jan 22, 2017
just watched some utoob vids, these cars seem to do ok , even blend with regular traffic. But the system depends on cameras , how are those going to be clear in winter conditions? And other inevitable faults will be catastrophic.
another issue may result from people who really don't like driving, just going to sleep or whatever behind the wheel [or not] of semiautomous vehicles, apparently already some think that the current Tesla cars are self driving. [ must be fake vid ,,,,,] https://www.youtu...HRupjl5E YIKES !

Jan 22, 2017
Wow, If a major corporation made a fake video (and marketed as the real thing) to sell their product, can you imagine the lawsuits? And yes I realize the videos you link to were not made by companys.

Jan 22, 2017
antigoracle,
If you know how to wire solar panels to your home, you can buy a panel for about $200 ea. 15 panels will give you about 5k Watts, which is enough to air condition your entire home, or more than enough to run all your appliances for 25 years. Microwaves and heating elements use a lot of power, but they aren't on for long periods of time.

Jan 22, 2017
antigoracle,
If you know how to wire solar panels to your home, you can buy a panel for about $200 ea. 15 panels will give you about 5k Watts, which is enough to air condition your entire home
Unless its cloudy or dark out and then youre gonna sweat.

Please remember to include this in your $$ figures or provide a caveat.

Jan 22, 2017
antigoracle,
If you know how to wire solar panels to your home, you can buy a panel for about $200 ea. 15 panels will give you about 5k Watts, which is enough to air condition your entire home, or more than enough to run all your appliances for 25 years. Microwaves and heating elements use a lot of power, but they aren't on for long periods of time.

Your arithmetic must be way off, because "engineer" gskam claims his 18 panels runs his entire house, EV and the utility company still has to pay him.

Jan 22, 2017
"Unless its cloudy or dark out and then youre gonna sweat."
-----------------------------

Here, we do not have humidity like where you are. And in the heat, it is clear. But those of us who have grid connections can have it all, security, banking of energy, plus self-generation.

The power company and we only exchange energy, we do not get any money for over-generation. The system seems to work out perfectly, costing us $6 for twelve months of house and EV, with eleven months of it with the PV system. So, we will probably over-generate, which is fine with me.

If and when we get another EV, we will add panels.

Jan 22, 2017
antigoracle,
If you know how to wire solar panels to your home, you can buy a panel for about $200 ea. 15 panels will give you about 5k Watts, which is enough to air condition your entire home, or more than enough to run all your appliances for 25 years. Microwaves and heating elements use a lot of power, but they aren't on for long periods of time.

Your arithmetic must be way off, because "engineer" gskam claims his 18 panels runs his entire house, EV and the utility company still has to pay him.

Further to this, Fake Engineer gskam claimed his 18 panels was designed to provide 95% of his home needs, yet it can magically provide extra power to charge his EV.

Jan 22, 2017
hEy goreicle , u and Gskam both hate Trump u should get together

Jan 22, 2017
hEy goreicle , u and Gskam both hate Trump u should get together

I despise Pathological Liars, thus I despise gskam and frump.

Jan 22, 2017
well that establishes your credentials,,, unfortunately

Jan 23, 2017
what gets me , lots of people like to actually drive, so now they will be turned into deskilled veggies , at least thats the bilderburger plan


This is catered for with racetracks. Imagine if driving eventually becomes banned, there will be a massive amount of jobs created at racetracks where people will still be able to drive.
Although that will die out a couple of generations later when people have grown up not being allowed to drive.

Jan 23, 2017
Although that will die out a couple of generations later when people have grown up not being allowed to drive
I dont think so. Amusement parks are always big business and the thrill of driving a vintage GTO will never grow old.

Jan 23, 2017
lots of people like to actually drive, so now they will be turned into deskilled veggies

Yeah - that's what they probably said when people invented washing machines, too. (And where exactly is the 'skill' in driving? Seems like something every doofus can master)

I don't really see cause for alarm, here. If you want to drive you will be able to. There's going to be stuff that won't be autopiloted for some time to come (if all else fails: motorcycles). At some point it will just become a lot cheaper to get a self driving car because they don't need all the controls and displays.

Note also that infrastructure (like roads) is not a right. It's a privilege. So proclaiming that a 'freeopm to steer your own car' is somehow a right is ludicrous.

Jan 23, 2017
I would like to choose when I want to drive, and when I want the car to take over. The obvious places where the car would best drive itself is up to the exit on a highway and/or in a traffic jam in or outside town. The obvious places where I would want to drive are where it's fun to do so, like country roads, or where I'd rather do it myself, like on winding mountain roads.

Self-driving cars would be useless when going off-road, even on relatively smooth dirt tracks. I'd like to see the on-board automatic driving system dodge potholes, rocks and other interferences which a proficient human driver can easily swerve around, to say nothing of navigating uncharted tracks or crossing difficult terrain. If you invest in a totally autonomous car, you are basically restricting your transportation world to a very predictable and boring structure, somewhat similar to the difference between playing in a cushy human-designed playground and pitting your senses against the forces of raw nature.

Jan 23, 2017
Self-driving cars would be useless when going off-road, even on relatively smooth dirt tracks. I'd like to see the on-board automatic driving system dodge potholes, rocks and other interferences which a proficient human driver can easily swerve around, to say nothing of navigating uncharted tracks or crossing difficult terrain.


Sounds exactly like the people that first said a computer cold never play checkers, chess, jeopardy, go and win. When will some people smarten up and learn by experience?

Jan 23, 2017
i stand corrected , i see now its likely the cars will offer a choice , self D or normal. so they can continue to speed on country roads [exceeding the posted speed is nearly 100% around here] and self drive in city traffic jams. Off road , perhaps but there are fewer visual cues and any mistake will send one over a cliff here in BC

Jan 23, 2017
i stand corrected ,


Wow, a person with a great deal of wisdom, integrity, and the ability to adapt their mind to informational facts.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think law makers will allow drunks, druggies, adrenaline seekers, sleepy heads or anyone else to be physically driving their vehicle on the roads, while their young children or loved ones are being driven to their school, church, home or anywhere else by their autonomous vehicles?

Jan 23, 2017
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Jan 23, 2017
Quote gkam "Freedom"

Do you mean the drunks, druggies, mind impaired, sleeping drivers should be allowed to be driving on the roads in the name of Freedom? Or do you want to take their freedom away, gkam?
Besides no one is taking their freedom of movement away, just their freedom to do it dangerously.

Jan 23, 2017
Quote gkam "Freedom"

Do you mean the drunks, druggies, mind impaired, sleeping drivers should be allowed to be driving on the roads in the name of Freedom? Or do you want to take their freedom away, gkam?
Besides no one is taking their freedom of movement away, just their freedom to do it dangerously.
The psychopath means that pot and his disease have limited his current attention span to 1 word max (plus punctuation)

Jan 23, 2017
I truly don't understand. I am vary soon to be 70 and yet I can see the future clearer than you young people who seem old with your entrenched ideas.

gkam, if indeed freedom of movement is a right than autonomous vehicles are going to make us more free.
Everyone will have one ,that can afford a vehicle now. Insurance will be dirt cheap.
One person on here talked about mountain roads. I have tire pressure monitoring on my vehiclel that alarms should tire pressure become a problem. But it still takes me about 5 sec. to respond. The computer will respond in literally milliseconds.

This is coming fast, no one will be able to stop it.
I look forward to a autonomous motor home. Where I can go to bed for 8 hours and be 500 miles closer to my destination the next morning. :-) Cook breakfast, watch tv and I will be across the USA before I know it.

Now that is freedom at 70 years old!

Jan 23, 2017
''drunks, druggies, adrenaline seekers, sleepy heads ''

i thought they were going into the robots ,,or,, normal people will become those after sitting in robots.

and another correction
''And where exactly is the 'skill' in driving? Seems like something every doofus can master)

so what happened to all those idiot drivers [ everyone apparently ] who need robots to take over

Jan 23, 2017
derkis, I am a kid of 72. And I am not arguing against autonomous driving.

I reported freedom is the reason they will give for wanting to drive for themselves. I agree with it.

Who got the idea we would only be stuck on approved roads?

Jan 23, 2017
''Who got the idea we would only be stuck on approved roads? ''

because the bilderburgers are promoting the eventual robotization of all traffic

And theres a Lexus tv spot , slogan ; EXPERIENCE THRILL OF DRIVING WHILE YOU STILL CAN . after shots of mobile armchair vehicle , Freaked me out.

Jan 23, 2017
"because the bilderburgers are promoting the eventual robotization of all traffic"
-----------------------------

Did they tell you that?

Jan 23, 2017
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Jan 24, 2017
Drivers trucks and cars are going to make terrorists have wet dreams, They can kill people and do not need to go to Allah while doing it.

Jan 24, 2017
so what happened to all those idiot drivers [ everyone apparently ] who need robots to take over

Inavriably you will find that those are people who think they are 'great' drivers (Dunning-Kruger).

Some will want robots to take over because they want to use the time in their car for something else.
Some will want robots to take over because it will be cheaper (I can also see insurance companies charging lower rates for autonomous cars if it turns out they are involved in less accidents)
Some will want to continue to drive. Heck, some people still ride horses for fun. So I don't see why anyone should be scared to lose the right to drive manually.

Jan 24, 2017
One potential problem I've not seen addressed is the following: Pedestrians will quickly realise that they don't need to wait to cross - they can just step out and the car will stop for them (if possible) - potentially causing even greater snarl ups...

Jan 24, 2017
they can just step out and the car will stop for them (if possible)

I'm not sure any pedestrian with half a brain would risk that. They can't know when a real driver is at the wheel (or judge the the braking distance accurately). It's not smart to risk your life needlessly - even faced with the most proven of algorithms - when you could just wait 5 seconds and then go. (Yes, some kids will try it, but after the first few fatalities that will stop)

Stupidity is not protected by the law. And even pedestrians are required to be careful in traffic.

Jan 24, 2017
Yes, yes, . . . and "the new cars will scare the horses".

Jan 24, 2017
I'm not sure any pedestrian with half a brain would risk that. They can't know when a real driver is at the wheel (or judge the the braking distance accurately)
AI will certainly reduce the number of scammer lawsuits
https://youtu.be/4NflHDull-E

-and jaywalking pedestrians will soon realize that when tgey step out in front of a moving vehicle it will be recorded and reported, and they will get arrested, as will aggressive drivers and other scofflaws.

Jan 25, 2017
Very hard to believe that a jaywalker could be recorded, reported and arrested - have you seen the quality of CCTV?

Jan 25, 2017
Very hard to believe that a jaywalker could be recorded, reported and arrested - have you seen the quality of CCTV?
I posted dashcam vids. Insurance requires them in many countries. Many of these recorded scammers were subsequently arrested.

And finally, recording quality, storage, and transmission rates are increasing at alarming (to you) rates. Cars will be talking to each other and to trafficams about road hazards including idiots in traffic. Right now signs on the highway encourage us to report aggressive drivers. Our cars will soon be doing this for us.

Jan 26, 2017
Self-driving cars would be useless when going off-road, even on relatively smooth dirt tracks. I'd like to see the on-board automatic driving system dodge potholes, rocks and other interferences which a proficient human driver can easily swerve around, to say nothing of navigating uncharted tracks or crossing difficult terrain.


Sounds exactly like the people that first said a computer cold never play checkers, chess, jeopardy, go and win. When will some people smarten up and learn by experience?


No connection between a computer's ability to play chess and its ability to drive a car offroad. You take any game you like, think about it carefully and you'll realize the playing field of that game is a closed environment that with enough time and power, you can eventually encompass. That's what computers have done with chess.

Nature, however, is infinite, with no rules. Go take an off-trail hike on a rough rocky mountain and you may understand.

Jan 26, 2017
Self-driving cars would be useless when going off-road

Seriously: if you ask 10000 people then 9999 of those will tell you that they have never driven a car off road (and never will). So what's the point? The vast majority of all cars manufactured and sold are designed never to see anything like a dirt road.

Yes, an autopilot will also not (yet) drive a moon buggy. How does that relate to any use case discussed here? How is that an argument against autonomous cars?


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