Hard-wired: The brain's circuitry for political belief

December 23, 2016
Participants rated the strength of their beliefs on a scale of 1-7 on both political (purple) and nonpolitical (green) statements. They then rated responses to counter-arguments to those statements. The graph depicts shifts in their belief strength ratings. Credit: Brain and Creativity Institute at USC

A USC-led study confirms what seems increasingly true in American politics: People become more hard-headed in their political beliefs when provided with contradictory evidence.

Neuroscientists at the Brain and Creativity Institute at USC said the findings from the functional MRI study seem especially relevant to how people responded to political news stories, fake or credible, throughout the election.

"Political beliefs are like religious beliefs in the respect that both are part of who you are and important for the social circle to which you belong," said lead author Jonas Kaplan, an assistant research professor of psychology at the Brain and Creativity Institute at USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences. "To consider an alternative view, you would have to consider an alternative version of yourself."

To determine which networks respond when someone holds firmly to a belief, the neuroscientists with the Brain and Creativity Institute at USC compared whether and how much people change their minds on nonpolitical and political issues when provided counter-evidence.

They discovered that people were more flexible when asked to consider the strength of their belief in nonpolitical statements - for example, "Albert Einstein was the greatest physicist of the 20th century."

But when it came to reconsidering their political beliefs, such as whether the United States should reduce funding for the military, they would not budge.

"I was surprised that people would doubt that Einstein was a great physicist, but this study showed that there are certain realms where we retain flexibility in our beliefs," Kaplan said.

The study was published on Dec. 23 in the Nature journal, Scientific Reports. Study co-authors were Sarah Gimbel of the Brain and Creativity Institute and Sam Harris, a neuroscientist for the Los Angeles-based nonprofit Project Reason.

Brain response to belief challenges

For the study, the neuroscientists recruited 40 people who were self-declared liberals. The scientists then examined through functional MRI how their brains responded when their beliefs were challenged.

During their brain imaging sessions, participants were presented with eight political statements that they had said they believe just as strongly as a set of eight nonpolitical statements. They were then shown five counter-claims that challenged each statement.

Participants rated the strength of their belief in the original statement on a scale of 1-7 after reading each counter-claim. The scientists then studied their brain scans to determine which areas became most engaged during these challenges.

Participants did not change their beliefs much, if at all, when provided with evidence that countered political statements such as, "The laws regulating gun ownership in the United States should be made more restrictive."

But the scientists noticed the strength of their beliefs weakened by one or two points when challenged on nonpolitical topics, such as whether "Thomas Edison had invented the light bulb." The participants were shown counter statements that prompted some feelings of doubt, such as "Nearly 70 years before Edison, Humphrey Davy demonstrated an electric lamp to the Royal Society."

The study found that people who were most resistant to changing their beliefs had more activity in the amygdalae (a pair of almond-shaped areas near the center of the brain) and the , compared with people who were more willing to change their minds.

"The activity in these areas, which are important for emotion and decision-making, may relate to how we feel when we encounter evidence against our beliefs," said Kaplan, a co-director of the Dornsife Cognitive Neuroimaging Center at USC.

"The amygdala in particular is known to be especially involved in perceiving threat and anxiety," Kaplan added. "The insular cortex processes feelings from the body, and it is important for detecting the emotional salience of stimuli. That is consistent with the idea that when we feel threatened, anxious or emotional, then we are less likely to change our minds."

Thoughts that count

He also noted that a system in the brain, the Default Mode Network, surged in activity when participants' political beliefs were challenged.

"These areas of the brain have been linked to thinking about who we are, and with the kind of rumination or deep thinking that takes us away from the here and now," Kaplan said.

The researchers said that this latest study, along with one conducted earlier this year, indicate the Default Mode Network is important for high-level thinking about important personal beliefs or values.

"Understanding when and why people are likely to change their minds is an urgent objective," said Gimbel, a research scientist at the Brain and Creativity Institute. "Knowing how and which statements may persuade people to change their could be key for society's progress," she said.

The findings can apply to circumstances outside of politics, including how respond to fake news stories.

"We should acknowledge that emotion plays a role in cognition and in how we decide what is true and what is not true," Kaplan said. "We should not expect to be dispassionate computers. We are biological organisms."

Explore further: Stories that force us to think about our deepest values activate a region of the brain once thought to be its autopilot

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gkam
2.4 / 5 (8) Dec 23, 2016
Not always. I had volunteered for the Vietnam War before going over and turning against it.

It wasn't easy, and I had two attempts on my life because I stood up and asked loudly why we were killing people in their own country.
Captain Stumpy
2.8 / 5 (9) Dec 23, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
Not always
actually, you can see this is validated right here on phys.org itself in the comments section, from the eu cult to your own posts

you have completely missed a relevant part of the article
"Political beliefs are like religious beliefs in the respect that both are part of who you are and important for the social circle to which you belong," said lead author Jonas Kaplan
you, yourself, have demonstrably validated this repeatedly with your own arguments about your PV system and charging of your EV, etc, even when faced with refuting information from your own PG&E
http://phys.org/n...car.html

http://phys.org/n...wer.html

still can't provide refuting evidence - and you refuse to admit it

*that* is what this article and study is about - your delusional clinging to a false belief despite the evidence proving you wrong

so per your request...
dan42day
5 / 5 (4) Dec 23, 2016
Your political beliefs are about issues that affect your life and future, and are under constant organized attack by those who's beliefs conflict with yours. It is not surprising that one would be more protective of those beliefs than some bit of trivia such as who invented the light bulb.

I am more concerned with how to protect my family than getting the correct answer to the question on Jeopardy.

gkam
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 23, 2016
Still fixated on me, Rumpy?

Can't you outgrow it?

Did you ever have the character to admit you had been wrong on an important matter?

No?
jim_xanara
4 / 5 (8) Dec 23, 2016

gkam 1 / 5 (1) 2 hours ago
Still fixated on me, Rumpy?

Can't you outgrow it?



lol That makes two of you.

Very alike. Neither of you give a good goddamn about how tedious your canned insults are to the rest of us.
MR166
5 / 5 (2) Dec 24, 2016
"Your political beliefs are about issues that affect your life and future, and are under constant organized attack by those who's beliefs conflict with yours. It is not surprising that one would be more protective of those beliefs than some bit of trivia such as who invented the light bulb."

Also facts are much easier to prove than the long consequences of political beliefs. In fact nothing is 100% true when dealing with politics and the laws governing people. There are always people who stand to gain from a law and people who will lose.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.5 / 5 (8) Dec 24, 2016
"Hard-wired: The brain's circuitry for political belief"

-As domesticated animals we have been selected for the exegencies of the tribe. This includes our abilities to accept irrational ideas and irrational direction from authority, same as the dogs that guard our house and fetch our papers.

And like our dogs, the non-compliant were culled and denied repro rights over 1000s of gens until this irrational behavior had become genetic.

This explains our penchant for superstition and our allegiance to tribal institutions such as political parties and street gangs, as well as our weakness for mindless sloganeering like 'WMDs!' and 'no nukes!' and 'make love not war' etc.
cgsperling
5 / 5 (2) Dec 24, 2016
dan42day and TheGhostofOtto1923 touch on something important. Tribalism is a deeply rooted instinct. Perhaps a liberal mindset involves having a wider view of what the "tribe" is.

"We should acknowledge that emotion plays a role in cognition and in how we decide what is true and what is not true," Kaplan said. "We should not expect to be dispassionate computers. We are biological organisms."

You betcha.

My question would be whether the deeper instincts are actually different between a person who is conservative and one who is liberal, or have those instincts been overridden by higher cognitive functions based on a person's life experiences.

I guess it is a classic nature-vs-nurture question.
ab3a
5 / 5 (1) Dec 24, 2016
Political beliefs, if done for the right reasons, are an extension of personal philosophies of life.They shouldn't be a matter of party affiliation. Facts on the ground can change, but before changing political beliefs around these new facts, they need to be validated.

This is why it is so hard to change minds. It's not just a matter of "hard-wired brain circuitry."
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 24, 2016
dan42day and TheGhostofOtto1923 touch on something important. Tribalism is a deeply rooted instinct. Perhaps a liberal mindset involves having a wider view of what the "tribe" is
It's not really an instinct it's a product of husbandry. Wolves can't bark but they were artificially bred until they could.

Once we became able to hunt the predators that were keeping our numbers in check, overpopulation became the predominant determinant of human behavior. We congealed into tribes. Those tribes with greater internal cohesion coupled with external animosity could be expected to prevail in conflict.

Obviously this required the suppression of many 'instincts' considered natural.
http://www.rug.nl...7f).html
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 24, 2016
Human conflict would typically end with the victorious tribe killing all the males and usurping the females which greatly accelerated this process of unnatural selection.

And with every advance in tech and tactics pops would grow faster and conflict would increase in frequency and intensity.

This gave us our huge unwieldy brains and the ability to project into the future where old age and death were inevitable.
Merrit
5 / 5 (2) Dec 25, 2016
Well this article basically proves most people can't think for themselves. The results are backwards on what intuitively makes sense. If you know a fact, no amount of counter evidence should be able to change your mind. But politics is more of a grey area and with additional knowledge you should be able to make a better decision. Facts should be more certain and politics more influential. Anyone fixated on political beliefs are just as nuts as religious fanatics.
BobSage
1 / 5 (5) Dec 25, 2016
These were all liberals. Having argued with such all my life, I could have told them they wouldn't listen to counter-arguments. How about they do this with conservatives and see if there is any difference. Are liberal brains actually different from conservative brains? I'm guessing yes.
gkam
1 / 5 (7) Dec 25, 2016
Yes, liberal minds are cluttered with Humanity, something lacking in conservative brains.
gkam
2 / 5 (8) Dec 25, 2016
Well, we can compare the economic gains in the Clinton Years and Obama Years with the corporate crime, the subversion and corruption of our agencies and institutions, the never-ending Bush Wars of Mass Profit, and the Great Republican Economic Meltdown.

How do the conservatives rationalize it?
ka_
not rated yet Dec 26, 2016
They discovered that people were more flexible when asked to consider the strength of their belief in nonpolitical statements - for example, "Albert Einstein was the greatest physicist of the 20th century." Emphasis : "The greatest", "physicist", "20th century".

I would argue that statement indeed is stated as opinion rather than something that can be proven. It also has a span of multiple lifetimes, People would be inclined to there might have been a greater even though not known by them since most people do not know much of the field.

Politics on the other hand has a very short lifespan of "given the perceived conditions of the day today, which leader seem better for you/country/world/peace/trade/environment/whatever".
ForFreeMinds
2.8 / 5 (4) Dec 26, 2016
Frankly I'm unconvinced as to the validity of the study. First of all only 40 self-described liberals were recruited, so it would only apply to them. Second, why would they believe something a researcher gave them that questioned their political beliefs and suffer cognitive dissonance?

This looks like the researchers were delving into Jonathan Haidt's research that shows liberals don't understand conservatives, while conservatives do understand liberals. He simply asked people to answer a set of moral values questions, then answer as liberals would, and also as conservatives would. The ones who were self-described liberals made significantly more errors regarding how conservatives would answer, showing they have a mental deficit.

Here's an article about his research: http://reason.com...this-way

And the published research report:
http://journals.p....0050092
ForFreeMinds
5 / 5 (2) Dec 26, 2016
I probably should say the research appears valid regarding the brain activity they encountered. It would be interesting to compare to the results for people who aren't self-described liberals. I suspect that's planned for the future.
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Dec 26, 2016
" liberals don't understand conservatives, "
---------------------------

Yes, we do!

We were all four years old.

drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (4) Dec 26, 2016
"We were all four years old" indicates a desire to denigrate your opposition.

The "us" vs "them" mindset is nothing new.
gkam
1.6 / 5 (7) Dec 26, 2016
No, it represents the selfishness of conservatism, and no example is better than Your Trump, the emotionally-vulnerable tool of others.

The opposition has denigrated themselves with what they have done to my country with the corporate crime, the brutal Bush Wars of Mass Killing and Corporate Profit, the corruption of our Department of Justice, the rape and ruin of our Armed Forces in the Bush Wars, and the Great Republican Economic Meltdown.

Remember how many people were losing their jobs and homes in the Bush Years and just after?
gkam
1 / 5 (6) Dec 26, 2016
drkj, I tried conservatism, the self-righteous attitude, and implied force in talk and attitudes. It was service stuff, and I outgrew it after Basic Training. Conservatives never did.

When in the war I turned against it, loudly, the conservatives vandalized everything I had, always secretly, too cowardly to face me.

Can't we put all you hateful, selfish, self-righteously-violent people on an island somewhere and let you go to work on each other? The rest of us want to live in peace, and not your feudalistic playground.
drkjcaruthers
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 26, 2016
No, it represents the selfishness of conservatism


"Selfishness of conservatism"...
Here is an idea. Go to all your liberal friends and ask if the budget should be balanced.

You will be amazed how many will say it is a not necessary or even desirable.
Paying your bills is a 'Conservative' principle.
How is that wrong?
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Dec 26, 2016
Frankly I'm unconvinced as to the validity of the study
@ForFreeMinds
well, given that psychology involves such complexity then it stands to reason that there is validity in the study, but just not to the point of making absolute scientific truths, like saying all liberals, etc....

it does, however, seem to validate there is a religious-like attachment to a belief system in politics, which is also demonstrated elsewhere ( http://journals.p....0075637 )
http://journals.p....0050092
thanks for linking that study as well

.

.

Conservatives never did
vandalized
too cowardly
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
us -vrs- them again, not relevant, and pretty much just a "hateful, selfish, self-righteously-violent" sniping /trolling comment

not everyone is either conservative or liberal - most people are a mix in the middle

so, per your own request to clean up the site...
gkam
1.7 / 5 (6) Dec 26, 2016
"Paying your bills is a 'Conservative' principle."
----------------------------------

Really? Then why did Reagan take us from the biggest creditor nation to the biggest debtor nation in eight years? How did the National Debt of over 200 years get almost tripled in only eight by Reagan?

Paid for your Bush Wars yet? No?

Got the oil you went for?

Got them "WMD!"??

The National Debt cannot be paid unless we get Democrats in office, since all revenue bills must originate in the House. The Republicans continue to let the Reagan/Bush National Debt pile up so they can blame the Democrats.

The Red States are parasites on the Blue States.

Pretty hard to forget the end of the Bush Years, isn't it?
drkjcaruthers
3.3 / 5 (7) Dec 26, 2016
gkam: You are obviously biased in this regard.
You want to bring up the Bush debt?
Yet you do not mention the Obama debt...
How do you explain the Obama debt?
The only way you can point a focused finger at Reagan is by looking at the percentage increase in the debt.
Looking at the absolute increase, Obama has everyone beat by a wide margin.

So, how many of your liberal friends (and include yourself) would be in favor of an absolute balanced budget without any wiggle room?
How many think we should balance the budget with an eye to paying off at least the foreign held debt? (and eventually paying off all the debt?)

Pointing your finger at the other party and saying "They did it too!" is a very grade school playground tactic.
Time to step up and admit what YOU believe in.
drkjcaruthers
4.3 / 5 (6) Dec 26, 2016
I have often held discussing politics is similar to discussing religion.
Facts are irrelevant. Points of similarity are irrelevant. Only the points of conflict matter.

Which is why some of us were taught not to discuss politics or religion in polite company.
*shrug*
I have since refined that to, 'Do not discuss politics or religion with anyone with whom you wish to remain friends.'

This is supposedly a scientifically generated study, yet gkam shows he has no interest in the science, only the condemnation of 'them'.
Gkam: Please look up "irony" and consider its application to your current behavior.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 26, 2016
The opposition has denigrated themselves with what they have done to my country with the corporate crime, the brutal Bush Wars of Mass Killing and Corporate Profit, the corruption of our Department of Justice, the rape and ruin of our Armed Forces in the Bush Wars, and the Great Republican Economic Meltdown
I can imagine george kamburoffs solution... put george kamburoff the lying cheating psychopath in charge. It is the only solution. the Final Solution.

Side note: Ive just been watching house of cards clips on youtube.
When in the war I turned against it, loudly, the conservatives vandalized everything I had, always secretly, too cowardly to face me
Most people hate lying cheating psychopaths. Your misfortune only indicates how bad you are at disguising your true nature.

The truth has been staring you in the face your entire life george.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 26, 2016
"In the book Violent Attachments, women and men have noted the particular stare of the psychopath - it is an intense, relentless gaze that seems to preclude his destruction of his victim or target. Women, in particular, have reported this stare, which is related to the "predatorial" (reptilian) gaze; it is as if the psychopath is directing all of his intensity toward you through his eyes, a sensation that one woman reported as a feeling of "being eaten." They tend to invade peoples' space either by their sudden intrusions or intimidating look-overs (which some women confuse for sexuality.)"

-go look in a mirror.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Dec 26, 2016
"How do you explain the Obama debt?"
------------------------------

Who ran the House of Representatives for the last six years? How are debts paid off? Only the House can pah off the Bush Debt. But they left the tax cuts in place, so we can NEVER pay off the Reagan/Bush National Debt. So now, they blame Obama for THEIR tax give-aways to the rich.

Grow up and pay for your mass killings!
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Dec 26, 2016
"gkam shows he has no interest in the science, only the condemnation of 'them'."
-----------------------------------

You got that from one post, huh?

Fact is, you conservatives just proved yourselves with Trump, the four-year-old spoiled kid. What about the Wall? Was he lying? What are you going to do about it? How about Hillary? Did he lie again?

Do you have a daughter? Would you talk to some trash-talker on the radio about her "development", and let someone call her a "piece of ass", like Trump did?

He is you.

You are him.

What did he grab you by?
Estevan57
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 26, 2016
Gkam, your Default Mode Network is surging in activity. Take your meds. Reported.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 26, 2016
The thread regards the differences in thinking, and I contend those differences are betrayed to us and demonstrated by personal behavior.

Do you deny it?
Estevan57
4 / 5 (4) Dec 26, 2016
Why should I? Your knee jerk display of Trump-Hate-Potty-Mouth gives a perfect demonstration to the article.

By the way, everyone but you knows that Trump is your "they".
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (3) Dec 26, 2016
Why should I? Your knee jerk display of Trump-Hate-Potty-Mouth gives a perfect demonstration to the article.

By the way, everyone but you knows that Trump is your "they".

gkam, Estevan has your number.

As to your "the House controls the purse strings and "they" have been in control for the last 6 years", that completely ignores the fact Obama had the House, Senate, AND Oval Office for his first two years. You want to look at the debt record for those years?

As usual, you are pointing fingers.

I want you to pick a side. Regardless of which political party is in control of the government, DO YOU believe the budget should be balanced?
That is a simple question.
Can you answer it without referencing someone else?
What do YOU believe?
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (6) Dec 26, 2016
"gkam shows he has no interest in the science, only the condemnation of 'them'."
-----------------------------------

You got that from one post, huh?


Why you find that shocking Cher? It's the way you started here with your very first comment (back in September of 2014), and you haven't slowed down a bit.

How many peoples have pointed out for you that for you it is not the science, it's all about the "folk with no education" and the "goobers" and "anonymous snipers" and the "folk who never did anything" and the "people not in the business". In other words you against "them". You are always right about everything because you are you, and everybody who ever tried to help you is automatically one of the evil "thems".
dlethe
2 / 5 (3) Dec 27, 2016
The study is flawed. They used liberals. Liberalism is, at it's core, a philosophy based on emotion rather than logic. They are already going to be hard-headed, and unwilling to change their point of view
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Dec 27, 2016
"What do YOU believe?"
---------------------------------

I believe Republicans should pay for their Bush Wars and Great Republican Economic Meltdown.

And liberals are not as motivated by emotion as much as conservatives and their overweening selfishness. Their lack of empathy for others just makes them seem to lack emotion.

Greed is an emotion, too, you know.
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (3) Dec 27, 2016
gkam:
Bush is no longer in office.
Soon Obama will be gone also.
What do YOU BELIEVE regarding balancing the budget?
Should the government be required to live within its means? Yes or No?

That is not a difficult question.

gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 27, 2016
It is not simple. Perhaps there are possible complications and consequences you may have missed.

But simply, short-term no, long-term, yes.

There are times one needs to borrow. Bush used the National Debt for his wars. Reagan used it for his now-defunct military excess.

Watch what happens to it under Trump.
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (2) Dec 28, 2016
It is not simple. Perhaps there are possible complications and consequences you may have missed.

But simply, short-term no, long-term, yes.

There are times one needs to borrow. Bush used the National Debt for his wars. Reagan used it for his now-defunct military excess.

Watch what happens to it under Trump.


And Kennedy/Johnson played fast and loose with the budget for the Vietnam war.
Obama promised we would be out of the middle east immediately (less than a year), yet we still have troops there.
Obama also meddled in the governments of other countries without actually declaring war. What right do we have to pick a side in Syria's civil war?
And so on...

A requirement of a balanced budget would at least slow down wars/conflict caused by both sides.

The problem with your answer is... short term never ends. The politicians can always find an excuse why "now" is not acceptable, while telling you "later" everything will be great.

Regardless of party.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Dec 28, 2016
If we had a balanced budget amendment, we would still be in the Great Republican Depression of the 1930s.
drkjcaruthers
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 28, 2016
If we had a balanced budget amendment, we would still be in the Great Republican Depression of the 1930s.


You are aware the rest of the world refers to that time period as a "depression", right?

Once again, this is a religion for you, as the article points out, these beliefs are not subject to contradiction regardless of the evidence presented.

If it were not for Uncle Ira stating you have been doing this for years, I would suspect you are a plant by the authors as a practical demonstration of their thesis.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
Don't listen to "Ira", who put all his credibility on his belief I am a phony and not real. He even now refuses to accept the evidence, and continues to denigrate it.

Hey, I am able to change opinions, having done it before, after I grew up. The "I have more than you" crowd did not appeal to me. I think it was the overarching selfishness and lack of empathy I could not stand. The down-and-out were to be scorned, and it was the fault of poor folk that they are poor. Not my kind of thinking.

Or living.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
"I would suspect you are a plant by the authors "
---------------------------------------

I'll bet you also "suspected" Saddam had "WMD!".

It is time you folk paid for your Bush Wars.
Uncle Ira
3.7 / 5 (6) Dec 28, 2016
Don't listen to "Ira", who put all his credibility on his belief I am a phony and not real. He even now refuses to accept the evidence, and continues to denigrate it.


Non, you don't need to listen to Ira-Skippy. The nice peoples at physorg make all the goofy slogans that glam-Skippy has posted since he has been here available for anybody to look over any time they want to see them. All more than 13,000 of them. Nobody has never did post so many posts in only 27 months in the whole history of the physorg.

So like he says, you don't have to listen to Ira-Skippy, you can go back and see them for your self.

Here you go, in case you need some help,,,, hooyeei, 679 pages of postums in a little over 2 years. You been a busy little troll glam-Skippy.

https://sciencex....ml?v=act
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 28, 2016
Don't listen to "Ira", who put all his credibility on his belief I am a phony and not real. He even now refuses to accept the evidence, and continues to denigrate it.


Non, you don't need to listen to Ira-Skippy. The nice peoples at physorg make all the goofy slogans that glam-Skippy has posted since he has been here available for anybody to look over any time they want to see them. All more than 13,000 of them. Nobody has never did post so many posts in only 27 months in the whole history of the physorg.

So like he says, you don't have to listen to Ira-Skippy, you can go back and see them for your self.

Here you go, in case you need some help,,,, hooyeei, 679 pages of postums in a little over 2 years. You been a busy little troll glam-Skippy.
Yeah but as most of them are one-line hockers then the word count would be a lot less startling.

But flooding is flooding. At least zephyr knows something about... something.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 28, 2016
Once again, this is a religion for you
Not religion, pathology. George kamburoff is here to see how many people he can trick and abuse because he is a psychopath. And every time you you respond to what he says as if you expect serious discussion, georges willie twitches.

Retain that image in your head.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
This is really not about me, "otto" and Willie and "Ira", it is about your fixation, your enslavement to responding hatefully to my posts.

You are hooked. "Baited with a Tweet".
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 28, 2016
This is really not about me, "otto" and Willie and "Ira", it is about your fixation, your enslavement to responding hatefully to my posts.

You are hooked. "Baited with a Tweet".
Like I said little psychopath, youre here to ensnare and abuse. You dont have to state the obvious.

So tell me - do you post naked? Do you use... appliances?

I assume they are sustainable and biodegradable.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
See?
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (3) Dec 28, 2016
The "I have more than you" crowd did not appeal to me. I think it was the overarching selfishness and lack of empathy I could not stand. The down-and-out were to be scorned, and it was the fault of poor folk that they are poor. Not my kind of thinking.

Or living.


How you choose to live is your concern and you are welcome to it.
It is when you attempt to force others to your point of view that your behavior crosses the line.
Or did you think it acceptable when you were vilified for changing your mind about the War?

It works both ways. If it is ok for you to resist those wanting to change your behavior, then it is ok for them to do the same.

How is it ok for you to demean the rich, but it is not ok for the rich to demean the poor?
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (2) Dec 28, 2016
"I would suspect you are a plant by the authors "
---------------------------------------

I'll bet you also "suspected" Saddam had "WMD!".

It is time you folk paid for your Bush Wars.


The way the Liberals went off on Bush, I am amazed there was not an organized effort to blame him for Hillary's loss! :)

As to WMDs; you might want to look up the definition.
Title 18 USC § 2332a defines "Weapons of Mass Destruction", and references Section 921.
Section 921 includes: grenades, bombs, and rockets (to list a few).
By this definition, Saddam clearly had WMDs.

As to the more classic definition of WMDs:
CLINTON also accused Saddam of having them.
Chemical munitions WERE FOUND in Iraq during the 2nd Gulf War.

The liberal response? "Saddam didn't know he had it … This is stuff Iraqi leaders did not know was left lying around."

So, yeah, Saddam had WMDs, by both definitions.
Clinton knew.
So does Obama.

gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
No, what they found were those left over from the Iran/Iraq war, unusable. Saddam really did get rid of all his chemical weapons, and documented it in an 850-page report, which we redacted to hide who he was selling his oil to (Texas oilmen).

The only true WMDs are nuclear weapons. The entire category was used to scare the people, with draft-dodgers Bush and Cheney telling us all scared we should be. Meanwhile, those of us who had served in a war were telling you to wake up and grow up, and stop being emotionally manipulated.

It was all after their National Failure, the Criminal Negligence of 9/11, after being repeatedly warned.
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (2) Dec 28, 2016
I notice you didn't list Clinton as a draft dodger.

Now you are saying only nukes can be WMDs.
:)
The current administration, the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, disagrees with you.

How do you support a position which people on your side do not support?

PS, you are not the only combat vet around. ;)
I was a combat medic. You know... the idiot running TOWARD the bullets and the screaming.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
"I notice you didn't list Clinton as a draft dodger."
--------------------------

He didn't lie us into a War of Mass Killing and Corporate Profit.

And I am not a combat veteran. I was an electronics tech on the flightline at Edwards AFB, and in the shop for Igloo White in Korat.

"How do you support a position which people on your side do not support?"
-------------------------
I do not look to others to see my "side" of things.

Do you?
gkam
1.8 / 5 (5) Dec 28, 2016
I have great respect for those of you who served in combat.

We were unarmed electronic recon. We lost 22 over there.
drkjcaruthers
4 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
"I notice you didn't list Clinton as a draft dodger."
--------------------------

He didn't lie us into a War of Mass Killing and Corporate Profit.

And I am not a combat veteran. I was an electronics tech on the flightline at Edwards AFB, and in the shop for Igloo White in Korat.


Yet Clinton IS a draft dodger. He used his family's influence and pulled every string he could. There were more than a few 'irregularities' associated with Clinton's draft status.
So, you might want to stop using "draft dodger" if dodging the draft is not an issue for you.

drkjcaruthers
4.8 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016

I do not look to others to see my "side" of things.

Do you?


Nope! But my views are not as fragmented as yours.
I am certain I could annoy people from any party because there is guaranteed to be issues of disagreement.
And as stated far above this post, people tend to focus on issues of disagreement, rather than areas of agreement.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
Fragmented?

Clinton's family had political pull? He came from a broken home with an abusive step-father, not a doting one like Dubya. Do you realize you are not talking about the son of the CIA Director, later the VP's spoiled brat?

I do not intend to annoy you, but elucidate you why I feel as I do. You are a lot like my former father-in-law who was a wonderful man and a good Republican who would puke at today's party of crude and shallow thought.

We need real conservatives, not the Trash we have in power now by National Tantrum. Get rid of the political syphilis now infecting your party and we will welcome you back.

If we survive Trump.
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (3) Dec 28, 2016
Fragmented?

Clinton's family had political pull? He came from a broken home ...

I do not intend to annoy you, but elucidate you why I feel as I do. You are a lot like my former father-in-law who was a wonderful man and a good Republican who would puke at today's party of crude and shallow thought.

We need real conservatives, not the Trash we have in power now by National Tantrum. Get rid of the political syphilis now infecting your party and we will welcome you back.

If we survive Trump.


Fragmented, ie you don't hold everyone to the same standard.
I do not like Obama at all, but I cheered when he gave the green light to kill bin Laden.
Why, because I believed it was the right thing to do, regardless of who did it.

I find it amusing you think I am a Republican.
:)
I am a life long Democrat.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
That's my favorite kind of Republican.
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (4) Dec 28, 2016
That's my favorite kind of Republican.

Then I am your favorite kind!
:)
Promised my Dad I would never be 'one of them'.
He was a life long Democrat too.
As was my Mom
and the rest of my family.
:)
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 29, 2016
@STOLEN VALOR LIAR-bully
I have great respect for those of you who served in combat
this is yet another blatant lie: you also said those soldiers who invaded Iraq were mass murderers- http://phys.org/n...rse.html

this is also why you have absolutely no credibility. it has nothing to do with Ira or anyone else, but rather your refusal to accept evidence over your "claims" of superior knowledge

which brings us to yet another whopper
I do not look to others to see my "side" of things
if this were true you wouldn't blatantly lie and promote false claims that are directly refuted by the evidence, then repeat that same argument ad nauseum through the entire site, topical or not, in multiple threads
(like your ignorance regarding nukes, the Military regs, radio, or quite a few other topics)

IOW - you validate the above article with your sloganeering and posts

so, per your request...
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 29, 2016
We need real conservatives, not the Trash we have in power now by National Tantrum. Get rid of the political syphilis now infecting your party and we will welcome you back
"One very interesting aspect of the psychopath is his "hidden life" that is sometimes not too well hidden. It seems that the psychopath has a regular need to take a "vacation into filth and degradation" the same way normal people may take a vacation to a resort where they enjoy beautiful surroundings and culture. To get a full feeling for this strange "need" of the psychopath - a need that seems to be evidence that "acting human" is very stressful to the psychopath - read more of The Mask of Sanity, chapters 25 and 26."
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
Outgrow your nastiness. I think you can do it with help from specialists. If you were a veteran, you could use the Vet Centers.

Your fixation on getting even with those who bested you is indicative of important problems in your head.

I suggest you get them fixed.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
How do you support a position which people on your side do not support?
George only supports the position that gets people to jump through the most hoops for him. Playing people 'like cheap kazoos' is his raison d'etre.

The only my thing of value we can gain from Georges participation here is insight into the mind of a psychopath. And this is actually a very valuable thing indeed.
If you were a veteran, you could use the Vet Centers
?? It hasn't seemed to work for you. You're still a pot addict and a congenital liar.

This is yet one more thing you aren't a very good spokesperson for.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 29, 2016
'The only [my] thing' in the post above... spellcheck is now throwing in random words and repeating phrases.
gkam
1 / 5 (5) Dec 29, 2016

Yes, . . . . And they are under your bed, too, otto.

Did I come into your dreams last night? Are you still scared?

Let's get back to your miswired head.
drkjcaruthers
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 29, 2016
Playing people 'like cheap kazoos' is his raison d'etre.

The only thing of value we can gain from Georges participation here is insight into the mind of a psychopath. And this is actually a very valuable thing indeed.


The more I read of his posts, the more he seems a stereotypical troll.
I spent a couple of years studying them.
Their need for validation is rather interesting.
The "those who bested you" type comment is so common among trolls as to be cliche.

But your point regarding insight into the mind of a psychopath being valuable is spot on.
I do not know if gkam is diagnosable as such. This behavior (online ranting) could be his relief value and the rest of his life may be very mundane.

My psych rotations were a mixture of boredom and wonder. The majority are 'mild to moderate depression' and the like. However, those with true mental disorders are fascinating.
Uncle Ira
3.4 / 5 (5) Dec 29, 2016
This behavior (online ranting) could be his relief value and the rest of his life may be very mundane.
There is no "rest of his life". This is it. All day, every day. For as long as he has been able to use the interweb. This is not his only playground, it's just his most recent one.

Here is just a small sampling of his interweb trolling, you'll notice that all his "profound wisdoms" is just the same old boilerplating from his other playgrounds. He is the Sarah Palin and Twittering Trump of the new-agey side of the fence.

https://disqus.com/by/gkam/

gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
Really? Is otto off his probation from child molesting? If you want to get personal, ask otto if he still steals dirty underwear. Ask "Ira" for his real and full name. He is just another anonymous sniper here, the lowest form of artificial life. Anyone can play that game.

Meanwhile, we have to get these adolescent emotions out of politics. They inflicted Trump on us. The same folk who gave us Trump are now targeting others, while hiding, cowering behind phony names in the Red States.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 29, 2016
Really? Is otto off his probation from child molesting? If you want to get personal, ask otto if he still steals dirty underwear
Uh what are you talking about? You are going the have to explain this.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 29, 2016
But your point regarding insight into the mind of a psychopath being valuable is spot on.
I do not know if gkam is diagnosable as such
If you go to this site
http://www.cassio...path.htm

-and follow him for a few months you start to get the idea.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
Gosh, being the focus of the fixation of so many has me embarrassed at my own fame.

The fact that all of you hide behind phony names, too scared to take responsibility for your own words tells us all we need to know.

You let something get to you, and now you cannot let it go. You are fixated, captured by your own childish emotions.

It is amazing to watch, the dissolution of personalities, even phony ones.
drkjcaruthers
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
Gkam:
Once again, you exhibit the troll classic cliche, 'I won, you lost, etc'
You attract attention purposefully.
The question is why?
We know you are not going to change people's minds, anymore than we could change yours.
So, what is your actual purpose for doing this?
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
I do not know if gkam is diagnosable as such. This behavior (online ranting) could be his relief value
@drkjcaruthers
studying trolls and sociopaths myself, and yes, you can diagnose, at least to a limited degree, considering this is pseudonymous and allows certain freedom from responsibility

there are several ways, but some basics include:
-the need to blatantly lie directly contradicting their own comments or proven facts in science despite the overwhelming evidence

-the need to force opinion as factual by various methods like bullying and/or threatening (like litigation for pointing out the lie, etc)

-classifying others as non-human or sub-human versus their own "superior" true human status (the "i'm real" argument)

-utilisation of false credentials to support superiority (like an MS from a diploma mill without a baccalaureate, etc)

-feigned empathy (like being a vet with "problems")

-ignoring good advice, private or otherwise
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
@drkjcaruthers cont'd
You attract attention purposefully.
The question is why?
this explains a lot: http://www.yourli...artid=65

So, what is your actual purpose for doing this?
you can see that both realitycheck and g above fit the profile of martyr/victim complex with sociopathic psychotic tendancies

RC simply uses his religious attachment to his pseudoscience as a means to bait into the argument whereas the above chronic liar actually uses his own feigned superior lifestyle, and his DUnning-Kruger "knowledge superiority", as you will see where he plays the "i've got an MS" or "experience in the field" argument quite often, especially when she is absolutely wrong
Plenty of examples of this in her comments in various places: https://sciencex....m/?v=act

if you want some specifics, i have some doozies saved for references, like charging an EV at night with solar panels
drkjcaruthers
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
I admit a touch of laziness at the moment. Rather than wading through the plethora of gkam posts, I will just ask...

What does he claim to have an MS in?
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (5) Dec 29, 2016
@drkjcaruthers last
We know you are not going to change people's minds, anymore than we could change yours
true, but you have to admit that the demonstrable neurosis shown make excellent examples for a study, especially with the willingness of the above user to regurgitate his beliefs and private information in various forms all over PO

i've been able to get her to produce mounds of private information for public display, which is pretty much validation of the diagnosis as well as proof of ignorance (or stupidity, considering i warned said poster multiple times as noted here: http://s1027.phot...p;page=1

PW=VALIDATE

they choose PO and it's lack of moderation along with their deep need for attention in any form, but especially in negative form as it feeds their martyr-victim complex
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
This started long ago when I referred to personal experiences, which were loudly and rudely challenged by Ira, otto, and then, Rumpy. So, I proved I really was at Edwards AFB working on experimental aircraft by sending them the front page of the newspaper of the Air Force Flight Test Center, with my name and picture as Airman of the Month. Ira characterized it an invitation to speak at the Rotary Club, unable to admit he was wrong again.

It went like that for my work on Igloo White, my work for National Semiconductor, my tests and reports for NASA, being a Senior Engineer for PG&E, and my Power Quality consulting and training, and so on.

Yes, it is unusual but it is true, and it caught the phonies with their facts down. They never forgave me for it. Now I am their fixation. It dominates their otherwise-empty lives. Rumpy has copies of much of my stuff, so you can read my service performance reports for yourself. Ask him for help.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
@drkjcaruthers

whoops... we posted at the same time:
What does he claim to have an MS in?
it's pictured in this link: http://s1027.phot...&o=4

PW=VALIDATE

it's listed as a "master of science college of professional studies"
he says it's for environmental science, but there is no listing on the MS (see link)
Nor is there validation from the school of a baccalaureate

of course, being in a masters program in a STEM field requires this, but she's never provided proof

gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
Ask Rumpy for HIS service reports. Like "otto" he is hiding behind a pseudonym, actually scared of something. He admitted it to me in an email. Maybe I'll look it up.

Meanwhile, my MS in Environmental Management with an emphasis on Energy and the Environment is not only valid but timely. My work at PG&E was in Technical Services as a technical resource, and I worked in many industrial facilities of our customers, solving problems.

If you care to discuss any technical aspects of any of this, let's do it. The others can only commit character assassination.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
@drkjcaruthers
watch how she manipulates the situation - notice the appeal to a blatant lie?
which were loudly and rudely challenged by Ira, otto, and then, Rumpy
i've never challenged anything that was proven, only what couldn't be proven
so then she misleads with
I proved I really was at Edwards AFB
this wasn't the topic, nor was it contested (except at the beginning by others who used Rule 37)

then the appeal to irrelevant OT diversion
Igloo White
NASA
still no proof of NASA, but also note this important historical tidbit
Ira is correct that I am not a degreed engineer, nor a registered one.
http://phys.org/n...oad.html

then more diversion with OT
Ask Rumpy for HIS service reports. Like "otto" he is hiding behind a pseudonym
of course, she even clarifies that she has had private communication, so it's not like she can argue i'm anonymous - LOL

it's actually fascinating to watch her unravel
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (2) Dec 29, 2016
Meanwhile, my MS in Environmental Management with an emphasis on Energy and the Environment is not only valid but timely. My work at PG&E was in Technical Services as a technical resource, and I worked in many industrial facilities of our customers, solving problems.

If you care to discuss any technical aspects of any of this, let's do it.


Sorry, but I fear that is outside my areas of expertise. My degrees are in Biology, Chemistry, with a Doctorate in Medicine. Minors in Math, Physics, and Psychology.
I do enjoy learning about new things, but try to stay at least near the 'hard sciences'. (Psychology was a fluke... pretty girl... I am certain you know the rest of that song.)

My undergrad research was in (Biology) in vivo degradation of linoleic and arachidonic acids; (Chemistry) cradle to grave re: new energetic materials.
Thinking there would not be a lot of overlap in our specialties.
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
The NASA report? It is on the top of page 41 of this document I sent to Ira.

19810025595 NASA Technical Memorandum 81308

X80-10OO9"_ Scientific Service, Inc., Redwood City, Calif. NOTICE: Available to U.S. Government Agencies and Their FIRE TESTING OF NASA SAMPLES, PHASE I Contractors. C. Wilton. G. Kamburoff. and J. Boyes Feb. 1979 161 p (Contract NAS2-9945)

The results of the burning and impact testing of graphite measure the chemical composition of atmospheric aerosols. epoxy test samples to determine the quantity and distribution of graphite fibers that might be released from aircraft crash/fire situations are reported. The design, construction, and calibration of the impact/fire test facility is described along with the tests conducted including sample preparation, test procedure, data collection, and test results. The test parameters, photographs, and data for each of the tests are presented.

Want to hear about the tests we did on BWR SRV operations for the NRC?
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
Spider bites?

Biology Chemistry and Physics are the basics of the Environment. As a polymath, you could not find a more complete field to study, from the disruption of the stable states which determine climate to effects of changes on biota, . . including us.

Get away from the game-players here, and you can actually find folk with things to say.
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Dec 29, 2016
@drkjcaruthers
(Psychology was a fluke... pretty girl... I am certain you know the rest of that song.)
ROTFLMFAO
i know what you mean - i never got further than undergrad degree's

one in Business Mgt (because of a pretty girl) and one in Physical Science, specialising in fire science, forensics and investigations (which included criminal psychology, something i still like to read up on and study)

you have an MD? did you specialise or is it GP? or did you go another direction?
(i used to be a paramedic, plus my wife and daughter are Nurses)

myself, i'm always willing to learn
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
It's funny - most people here use their anonymity to tell the truth. George kamburoff uses his real name to lie. As if he could ever get away with it.
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (2) Dec 29, 2016
you have an MD? did you specialise or is it GP? or did you go another direction?

myself, i'm always willing to learn


Yes, have an MD.
Non-practicing. "different direction" as you said.
Make more money and dont have to worry about malpractice suits from druggies.
*shrug*
I would rather do patient care, but not a fan of the US model.
PS, don't ask. When I said I could piss off both sides, I am speaking from experience! ;)
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (3) Dec 29, 2016
Spider bites?

Biology Chemistry and Physics are the basics of the Environment. As a polymath, you could not find a more complete field to study.


Sounds interesting!
Except for the spider bites part. Clinically, the patient presents with a 'spot'. May be tender. May not. Might be indurated, might not. Might suppurate, might not. The patient rarely saw the spider bite them. So clinically, spider bites are annoying because they are mostly guesswork unless the patient saw the insect bite them or unless it develops into something nasty, but easily identified.
Annoying!
Uncle Ira
3.4 / 5 (5) Dec 29, 2016
the front page of the newspaper of the Air Force Flight Test Center, with my name and picture as Airman of the Month. Ira characterized it an invitation to speak at the Rotary Club,
You tell the GREAT BIG LIE again Skippy.

I did not character it, I caricatured it for being proof you dropped out of three colleges in two years, a free dinner at the Rotary Club, and a $25 gift certificate and weekend get-a-way at the Holiday Inn.

All for keeping your nose clean in the Air Force Radio Repairman School. And you should be glad they don't come see some of your foolishment here or they would come and try to make you pay your prizes back, eh? Because what you know about radios don't really instill much confidence in the Air Force Radio Repairman School or what you learned in it.

Oh yeah, I almost forget. It also said you was the tuba or trombone player or something like that in the high school band. I hope you did better at that then you did in the Radio Repairman School.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
@drkjcaruthers
Non-practicing. "different direction" as you said.
Make more money and dont have to worry about malpractice suits from druggies
i feel ya...
if it weren't for the good Samaritan laws ...
PS, don't ask. When I said I could piss off both sides, I am speaking from experience! ;)
cool with me

aint a whole lot of other options out there for an MD with "more money and dont have to worry about malpractice suits" - and i can understand your need for anonymity or privacy

me - i'm retired so i don't really care

i understand your dislike of the US model as well...
meh

PEACE

.


I did not character it, I caricatured it
@IRA
comprehension isn't her strong suit

and personally, i don't think she speaks english very well, considering her inability to comprehend basics
LOL
antigoracle
3 / 5 (2) Dec 29, 2016
It's funny - most people here use their anonymity to tell the truth. George kamburoff uses his real name to lie. As if he could ever get away with it.

Part of the thrill for the psychopath is the "chase". gskamp has taken it further, he doesn't care about getting away, as he has already boasted, his LYING cannot hurt him.
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (2) Dec 29, 2016
aint a whole lot of other options out there for an MD with "more money and dont have to worry about malpractice suits" - and i can understand your need for anonymity or privacy

me - i'm retired so i don't really care


Actually, there are more than you might think. Especially if you look at wages per hour worked.
And yeah. privacy is important.
While studying the trolls several years back, I had several offer to do me great bodily harm. One of the more dramatic threats was "cut your brake lines, watch you roll over the cliff, and then set your car on fire, just to make sure."
So, yeah, value my privacy. And my home security system, and my dogs, and all the other perfectly legal options to safe guard me and mine.
It is a crazy world and the inmates are in charge!
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
Gotta watch out for conservatives. They seem to be attracted to violence.

It's hard-wired in their brains.

I get harassed for letters to the editor of the paper, and threatened by all kinds over the years. But nothing brings out the cowardly snipers like anonymity. That's why, Doctor K. J. Caruthers, I make public my real name, George Kamburoff. It differentiates me from the snipers, here for admitted "games".

BTW, go read those documents Rumpy has in his Stalking Folder.
drkjcaruthers
5 / 5 (3) Dec 29, 2016
gkam:
You have missed the point of the article and apparently missed the point with your posting.
There are crazies on BOTH sides.
The guy who wanted to set me on fire was a Liberal. FAR LEFT, but still a Liberal.
To the best of my knowledge I have never had a Conservative offer to kill me.
I have had a few tell me I was going to hell, but none offering to buy the ticket for me.

In my experience, Far Right and Far Left are both abnormal.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 29, 2016
@drkjcaruthers
While studying the trolls several years back, I had several offer to do me great bodily harm
yup- know what you mean
some others here have been through the same thing
Actually, there are more than you might think
yeah, probably
i honestly haven't looked too hard into it
gkam:
You have missed the point of the article and apparently missed the point with your posting
i wouldn't bother trying to explain it - she is locked into the fanaticism
i've tried to actually help her, but she is very, very emo and once you get her riled, she's all in against you *period*
regardless of the evidence, rationality or logic of the argument or any other reason

fascinating how it's such a great example for the article though

that makes Ira one sharp cookie, too - spotted this one right off the bat
i waited for the evidence, but Ira knew immediately
Ira has a nose for trolls and sock-puppets
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
The guy who wanted to set me on fire was a Liberal. FAR LEFT, but still a Liberal.
wow!!!!
To the best of my knowledge I have never had a Conservative offer to kill me.
I have had a few tell me I was going to hell, but none offering to buy the ticket for me.
who's hell? theirs? a specific god? did they specify if it was the historical "cold" hell or the "hot" one from the recent upstarts who moved to the desert? (LOL)
In my experience, Far Right and Far Left are both abnormal
can i hear an AMEN for that!
(jk)
LOL

one does wonder, however, about the article findings concentrating on STEM only degree's

i know that scientists can't all be rational considering that there are still those who are religious (or consider themselves to be so)

so i wonder about the ratio of rational thinkers to irrational political acceptance sans logic as noted above

there are some examples of that lately in the news from big name researchers, IYKWIM
antigoracle
4 / 5 (4) Dec 29, 2016
I make public my real name, George Kamburoff. It differentiates me from the snipers, here for admitted "games"

LOL.
Your name is the only truth you have (we have to take your word on that). It's your coping mechanism in a lifetime of lies.

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