The politics of climate change

U.S. residents who believe in the scientific consensus on global warming are more likely to support government action to curb emissions, regardless of whether they are Republican or Democrat, according to a study led by a Michigan State University sociologist.

However, a political divide remains on the existence of despite the fact that the vast majority of scientists believe it is real, said Aaron M. McCright, associate professor in Lyman Briggs College and the Department of Sociology.

The study, in the journal Climatic Change, is one of the first to examine the influence of on perceived scientific agreement and support for government action to reduce .

"The more people believe scientists agree about climate change, the more willing they are to support government action, even when their party affiliation is taken into account," McCright said. "But there is still a political split on levels of perceived scientific agreement, in that fewer Republicans and conservatives than Democrats and believe there is a scientific consensus."

McCright and colleagues analyzed a Gallup survey of 1,024 adults who were asked about their views on climate change.

The results reaffirm the success of what McCright calls the "denial machine" – an organized movement to undercut the scientific reality of climate change during the past two decades.

McCright said the first step in dealing with climate change is getting both sides of the political spectrum to accept the scientific consensus. At that point, he said, policymakers can go about the task of coming up with an approach to combat it.

He said both the government and industry should be involved in that effort.

"Certainly we can't solve all our problems with through government regulations – in fact, for some problems, government regulations might make it worse," McCright said. "And so we need a combination of market-based solutions and government regulations."


Explore further

Democrats and Republicans increasingly divided over global warming

Journal information: Climatic Change

Citation: The politics of climate change (2013, April 29) retrieved 19 May 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2013-04-politics-climate.html
This document is subject to copyright. Apart from any fair dealing for the purpose of private study or research, no part may be reproduced without the written permission. The content is provided for information purposes only.
0 shares

Feedback to editors

User comments

Apr 29, 2013
The issue is not whether changing climate is real since it has been changing for thousands of years.
The issue is do we trust Al Gore and Giaist climatologists who assert that if socialism isn't imposed immediately, the seas will rise and all sorts of calamity will result.

Apr 29, 2013
That's exactly correct. The far left clealry wished to use AGW as a foot in the door to implememt their socialists politics. That's why so many were against it. If the policies are not damaging to economies, capitalism, and leave freedom intact, many more would accept them. But as it is, the far left who promote AGW as a immediate crisis also desire anti-capitalist and social engineering.

Presently, global warming has slowed, which is counter to what climate scientists thought,... so if this trend continues for the next five years or so it becomes a demonstration of failed understanding.

Apr 29, 2013
Consensus-science: like old fashioned science but with new and improved groupthink. Only those who accept the consensus count as scientists making the consensus 97.7% pure and gentle on your thin skin.

Apr 29, 2013
"Global warming which has been the subject of so many discussions in recent years, may give way to global cooling. According to scientists from the Pulkovo Observatory in St.Petersburg, solar activity is waning, so the average yearly temperature will begin to decline as well. Scientists from Britain and the US chime in saying that forecasts for global cooling are far from groundless."

Consensus-science: like old fashioned science but with new and improved groupthink. Only those who accept the consensus count as scientists making the consensus 97.7% pure and gentle on your thin skin.


To be a "climatologist" is to de facto believe in AGW.

Apr 29, 2013
Consensus-science: like old fashioned science but with new and improved groupthink. Only those who accept the consensus count as scientists making the consensus 97.7% pure and gentle on your thin skin.


Rubbish: Climate science behaves no different than any other science when it comes to the science done at the coal-face. Outside of that, yes there are agendas, media spin etc. Still does not invalidate the science which via consensus is done the same as it ever was.

Apr 29, 2013
consensus is done the same as it ever was.

I guess you are correct. Anyone who challenges the consensus is not published and is ostracized until the paradigm shifts.
That is the way real science is done as Kuhn describes it.

Apr 29, 2013
"A Purdue University-led team of researchers discovered sunlit snow to be the major source of atmospheric bromine in the Arctic, the key to unique chemical reactions that purge pollutants and destroy ozone"
http://www.purdue...tic.html
Ozone is destroyed naturally?

Apr 29, 2013
"LED Light Bulbs Recalled by Lighting Science Group Due to Fire Hazard"
http://www.cpsc.g...e-Group/

While the same govt bans incandescent lamps.

Apr 29, 2013
And we're being poisoned by toxic CFLs...

http://www.youtub...3rbHFwQU

While the govt bans incandescent lamps.

Apr 29, 2013
Why are your Corporate slave masters selling defective products to consumers Tard Boy?

It is a good thing that the government caught them and forced the recall isn't it?

"LED Light Bulbs Recalled by Lighting Science Group Due to Fire Hazard" - RyggTard

Apr 29, 2013
Astonishing to see so many who put their own personal policy agendas and creature comforts ahead of facts that have far reaching consequences for future generations.

One can but hope that they will be reincarnate, with intact memories of their earlier follies, at some future time so as to personally experience that which they denied.

Apr 30, 2013
"And we're being poisoned by toxic CFLs." - CantDriveTooStupid

What about your toxic PC? Your toxic Phone? Your toxic alarm clock? Your toxic carpet? Your toxic upholstery, Or Hahahahah the trillions of florescent lights used in homes and offices all over the country.

What do you think is in those 4 foot florescent bulbs in your garage? Or your workplace?

Oh man. If you think that CFL's are highly toxic, then you are even dumber than you look.

All florescent bulbs contain minute quantities of mercury which slowly gets absorbed into the glass as the bulb ages.

And of course the amount of mercury emitted by burning the coal needed to power a regular incandescent bulb is much larger than the amount of mercury used in a CFL.

I liked the part in the report where the idiot reporter takes her CLF bulb to a recycling depot and complains about how much gasoline she burned by doing so.

Why isn't she complaining about how much gasoline she burns taking a piece of paper to the dump?

Apr 30, 2013
"A Purdue University-led team of researchers" - RyggTard

RyggTard never seems to be bright enough to read the entire article he references.

If he had he would have read...

"Ozone in the lower atmosphere is different from the stratospheric ozone involved in the planet's protective ozone layer. This lower atmosphere ozone is a greenhouse gas that is toxic to humans and plants..."

Poor RyggTard. He spends so much time lying to himself.

Apr 30, 2013
"Ozone is destroyed naturally?" - RyggTard

If it wasn't then the universe would be full of nothing but ozone.

Poor RyggTard. The slightest hint of fact confuses him.

Apr 30, 2013
"Anyone who challenges the consensus" - RyggTard

Are you referring to the paradigm shift that Conservative Whack Tards are predicting will come soon after the coming Zombie Apocalypse and the take over of the U.S. by the U.N.?

There is just no end to TeaPublican/Randite Stupidity is there?


Apr 30, 2013
Yeap! Yeap! That is astounding how selfish and controlling the nut cases of the rightwing want to be. They have no respect for their next generation or concern for the environmental legacy they leave behind. It seems very easy for rightwingnuts to ignore everything except their own mind's greed and their nature to dismiss the pollution they create as normal. I find these POS's really disgusting with little to say, or weak arguments at best.

At best I think these POS's all need to be forcible rounded up and shipped to Al-Gore's FEMA Region 9 disarmed internment and environmental re-education camp! I fully expect the Obama black boots to be marching soon. It couldn't happen soon enough for me, a Liberal!

Apr 30, 2013
But by your own admission, the polar ice caps of Mars are melting and Pluto is warming.

How does a cooling sun produce a warmer Mars and Pluto?

"Global warming which has been the subject of so many discussions in recent years, may give way to global cooling. " - NumenTard

Make up your mind Retard. Is the sun causing the solar system to heat up or not?


Apr 30, 2013
Correct.

"They have no respect for their next generation or concern for the environmental legacy they leave behind." - HowHot

I have had literally dozens of Republicans and Libertarians tell me that they owe future generations nothing since they get nothing in return from future generations in return for their consideration.

In other words, since there is nothing in it for them, future generations can go to hell.

Isn't it interesting how Conservatives who claim to have a reverence for the past, have no respect or concern for the future.

Conservatism is cancer.

Apr 30, 2013
Sean confuses scientific consensus with science by consensus..

"Consensus-science:" - SeanOfTheTard

Sean is pinning his hopes on the theory that maybe AIDS really can be cured by sleeping with an Underage Virgin.

The scientific consensus tells us that this isn't true, but according to Sean, that is just science by consensus.

Moron...


Apr 30, 2013
Clearly NumenTard's objection to Global warming is purely political.

He fears the steps that must be taken to combat it.

"The far left clealry wished to use AGW as a foot in the door to implememt their socialists politics." - NumenTard

Fear is the primary motivation for Conservatives.

They are too cowardly, too immoral, and too stupid to act.

Apr 30, 2013
Poor RyggTard. The science is settled. Al Gore Won.

That is just another plain reality that you are incapable of accepting due to your obvious intellectual inferiority.

"The issue is do we trust Al Gore and Giaist climatologists who assert that if socialism isn't imposed immediately, the seas will rise and all sorts of calamity will result." - RyggTard

Apr 30, 2013
And we're being poisoned by toxic CFLs...

http://www.youtub...3rbHFwQU

While the govt bans incandescent lamps.

No matter how many times someone explains to you that the amount of mercury prevented from escaping into the atmosphere because of the reduced amount coal required to light the CFL is far greater than the mercury in the CFL, you're just going to ignore it, forget it, and then make your lame, stupid, false argument again, aren't you.

Apr 30, 2013
And we're being poisoned by toxic CFLs...

http://www.youtub...3rbHFwQU

While the govt bans incandescent lamps.

No matter how many times someone explains to you that the amount of mercury prevented from escaping into the atmosphere because of the reduced amount coal required to light the CFL is far greater than the mercury in the CFL, you're just going to ignore it, forget it, and then make your lame, stupid, false argument again, aren't you.

Released into the atmosphere way over there by the poor people, or directly into my or my child's lungs when the bulb breaks in the kitchen. I say give it to the poor.

Apr 30, 2013
And we're being poisoned by toxic CFLs...

http://www.youtub...3rbHFwQU

While the govt bans incandescent lamps.

No matter how many times someone explains to you that the amount of mercury prevented from escaping into the atmosphere because of the reduced amount coal required to light the CFL is far greater than the mercury in the CFL, you're just going to ignore it, forget it, and then make your lame, stupid, false argument again, aren't you.

Released into the atmosphere way over there by the poor people, or directly into my or my child's lungs when the bulb breaks in the kitchen. I say give it to the poor.

You are one sick selfish puppy.

Apr 30, 2013
consensus is done the same as it ever was.

I guess you are correct. Anyone who challenges the consensus is not published and is ostracized until the paradigm shifts.
That is the way real science is done as Kuhn describes it.


Goes all the way back to at least Galileo. So stop bleating about it.

Apr 30, 2013
I have had literally dozens of Republicans and Libertarians tell me that they owe future generations nothing since they get nothing in return from future generations in return for their consideration. In other words, since there is nothing in it for them, future generations can go to hell.
Isn't it interesting how Conservatives who claim to have a reverence for the past, have no respect or concern for the future...


I actually consider the attitude you discus, contemptible. A selfish abhorant human trait.
The "Conservatism" you mention seems peculiar to the US. Conservatives here are very pro-Green.
Is it more, what you call "Libertarianism" that holds the mind-set.
This idea that the world is out to get you - so I must have my sanctuary ready for the holocaust? I don't trust anyone in authority?
Err we live in a society, don't we? You know with other people. A world-wide one at that. Though I know by experience the US media doesn't think it exists unless US troops are there.

Apr 30, 2013

Rubbish: Climate science behaves no different than any other science when it comes to the science done at the coal-face. Outside of that, yes there are agendas, media spin etc. Still does not invalidate the science which via consensus is done the same as it ever was.
-- runrig
One word to you sir - Climategate. In the TRUE scientific disciplines, there are those who have been made outcasts for less. But in "climate science" however, those who brought shame and disrepute are ceremoniously returned to their cushy jobs and anointed heroes of the cause by the cult. They continue to hide behind the politics and protection of the IPCC, where they can safely push their AGW propaganda.

Apr 30, 2013
That, AO, is pure unadulterated BS.

Are you a congenital liar or one of convenience of the moment?

Apr 30, 2013
Astonishing to see so many who put their own personal policy agendas and creature comforts ahead of facts that have far reaching consequences for future generations.


Like the 'liberal'/socialists who are destroying economies for their political power? It's NOT a coincidence AlGore and other 'liberals' have joined the AGW religion. It furthers their power.
If you won't believe this, how many 'liberals' have proposed free market, or even high tech solutions (like nuclear power) to their AGW problem? Few to none.
Therefore it is the AGWite and their fellow travelers that are putting THEIR personal agenda, power, before future generations.
If the 'liberals' were really worried about future generations wouldn't they modify social security and Medicare to keep them solvent?

Apr 30, 2013
Goes all the way back to at least Galileo.

Galileo was attacked by his peers in science?
If you don't toe the line in AGW, your careers are not threatened by the Catholic Church but by the AGW faithful.
runrig agrees AGW is a religion.

Apr 30, 2013
Goes all the way back to at least Galileo.

Galileo was attacked by his peers in science?
If you don't toe the line in AGW, your careers are not threatened by the Catholic Church but by the AGW faithful.
runrig agrees AGW is a religion.


Prat ... not every interpretation is predicated on conspiracy or reduction to religion. A religion is a belief in something passed down from ancestry. With no empirical proof by observation in real time - then religion is merely a prop for the psyche, a reflex to make the world easier to comprehend. This is a science site and religion plays no part. Look up science in a dictionary. The Galileo allusion is what should be obvious to a non-prejudiced mind. .... That science can be a threat to the bigoted and ignorant.
I must thank you for a live demonstartion of that.

Apr 30, 2013
That science can be a threat to the bigoted and ignorant.

Like those who follow the AGW faith?
They are the ones who stifle science and excommunicate those who challenge their faith.

Apr 30, 2013
Rygg: "LED Light Bulbs Recalled by Lighting Science Group Due to Fire Hazard"

Thank goodness we have Rygg to unearth the truth for us. LED lightbulbs are part of the AGW conspiracy - designed to kill the conservatives who protect our freedoms in their sleep. All that is left now is to determine who masterminded this dastardly scheme - was it Barach Obama, or Hugo Chavez?

"Lighting Science issues recall of 554,000 LED bulbs because of fire hazard"
http://www.geek.c...1543528/

"The U.S. government last year announced a $10 million award, dubbed the "L Prize," for any manufacturer that could create a "green" but affordable light bulb."
http://articles.w...-60-watt

Apr 30, 2013
I am not questioning your facts Rygg - obviously a dastardly scheme hatched up by the evil socialists - so was it Obama, in the library (that is a socialist institution), with the lead pipe (made by the pipe fitters union)?

But you choose to ignore the facts and promote and defend state power regardless of it intended and unintended consequences.
The Soviets discovered very quickly how central planning fails to promote prosperity. So did the Pilgrims in 1620.
Therefore the only purpose of state central planning must be control, not prosperity. The US and EU are experiencing the decline as the state impose its power, ostensibly to 'save the earth'.

Apr 30, 2013
The sad thing is the Environmentalists actually believe they can help the environment by forcing a decline in the economy via higher prices and more government regulation. The environment movement only exists because we are wealthy. If they bight the hand that feeds them they will cease to exist. The biggest threat to the environment we all face is economic decline.

May 01, 2013
So dir. You don't believe there will be a voter backlash when food and gas prices go up? I say feed and educate people first. Hungry people don't care about the environment and don't send money to ngos like Wwf and Greenpeace. Cheap abundant energy is a basic human right.

May 01, 2013
Pity the whole world is not you then. If you are the clever one and the rest of us are "Luddites" or "Tards" as our friend Vendi would say, what is your next step? Perhaps you could scare the daylights out of us idiots by making exaggerated "end of days" predictions to force us into lockstep? ... oh ? .... hang on there... someone else has tried that.... the loony far right! Which 'side' are you on?

May 01, 2013
there will be a voter backlash when food and gas prices go up

There should be when socialist govts keep inflating the currency by printing more money. Prices are rising because of inflation, too many paper dollars chasing too few real goods.
Does dj support the socialist (AGW) solution to cutting gas consumption by raising gas prices by increasing taxes. The AGW solution to coal and oil is to raise taxes and impose regulatory costs to kill the industry, with NO cost effective alternative to replace them.

May 01, 2013
ens of thousands of scientists are studying the climate, and helping us understand what an intelligent species would do in response to this potential catastrophe


This is called central planning by committee, aka communism.
The much better alternative is for billions of people to may thousands of daily choices in their self- interest and let the entrepreneurs, not govt funded scientists, find alternatives.
This method has been proven effective.

May 01, 2013
Goes all the way back to at least Galileo. So stop bleating about it.


So this is a feature of science and academia...not something to be ashamed of and try to work towards correcting?

May 01, 2013
"private firms will need to leave unused 60-80 percent of the coal, oil and natural gas they are developing in order to meet the target of limiting global warming to 2 degrees Celsius."
http://www.energy...999.html

business interests have shown repeatedly that they are willing to corrupt science

And govts are angels and wouldn't consider corrupting science?
Science is providing solutions as we speak.

And how will they implemented if not cost effective?
Ten thousand scientists can't be wrong so dj, how do you propose to implement their final solutions?

May 01, 2013
I would like to see a partnership between society, the science community,

The 'science community' is not a part of society?
t government oversight of building codes?

Only if you have honest building inspectors. How do you verify that? I would much rather trust codes imposed by a mortgage company and insurance companies that finance and insure the structures.
Automobile safety owes more to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety than any govt agency.,
energy companies are making huge profits, and paying taxes to the government.

That's a bad thing?
your proposed solution to the many thousands of deaths that are occurring today due to the pollution in China and India


I am not Indian or Chinese. It's their problem to solve and it won't be solved until they have govts concerned about protecting private property rights.

May 01, 2013
government/industry partnerships

Like the govt/industry/union partnership to make citizens of those who are in the US illegally?
Where were public hearings for citizens to voice their opinions?
dj claims to not be socialist yet his proposals are all class based, not individual based.

May 01, 2013
At one time there was a consensus among science that blacks were inferior
german scientists had enough consensus that the public didnt really stop them from throwing jews into ovens along with many others.

care to comment on the history of such consensus and many others?


May 01, 2013
Goes all the way back to at least Galileo.

Galileo was attacked by his peers in science?
If you don't toe the line in AGW, your careers are not threatened by the Catholic Church but by the AGW faithful.
runrig agrees AGW is a religion.


Prat ... not every interpretation is predicated on conspiracy or reduction to religion. A religion is a belief in something passed down from ancestry. With no empirical proof by observation in real time - then religion is merely a prop for the psyche, a reflex to make the world easier to comprehend. This is a science site and religion plays no part. Look up science in a dictionary. The Galileo allusion is what should be obvious to a non-prejudiced mind. .... That science can be a threat to the bigoted and ignorant.
I must thank you for a live demonstartion of that.


ah. why not go to the history books and stop blaming the church for the bheavior of a few jesuit academics who wanted him crushed as they were teaching

May 01, 2013
the battle was between who would define the world, the philosophers (like the left follows), or the empiricists... the philosphers, decided to cheat, as they do today, and crush the empiricists by running to the state power of the day, which was the church... and to day they run to the same power to get it to crush who they dont like.

the rest has been a battle until today, when the philosphers could tip over the empiricists...
and so, they got them to prove blacks inferior, and indians
to murder jews... and all manner of pedagogy where if the science said otherwise, it was hidden or forced by power.. so abortions and birth control increase breast cancer, but dont tell women, as that would do what to the philosphers ideas of how to force a future?

this is why they pounce on sience, do not fund it, and make a mokery of impiricism.
its the only way to use a trusted something, to control others. Niccolò Machiavelli was the one who coined separation of church and state as a means

May 01, 2013
the left has been rewriting history to change their followers ideas of what to do, and have admitted to it from day one. shows how stupid the follwers are!!!!!!! when your leader says they intend something that hurts you and will do bad things for you, and you ignore it support it then wonder why you have all those nasty things from total administration...

the left has saught to use religion, and destroy it when they cant
use liberalism, by gutting it and changing it to its hegelian opposite (hegel a philospher as was marx, as was all of them who did not like that they could not define the world!!! so marx defined the world and the followers decided to crush science and blame religion)

sadly, we forget that science started with religion..
the search to understand the works of the creator to get closer to him was the idea
whether there is a creator or not, the idea allowed them to put money to research reality as a thing to be understood empirically

May 01, 2013
it was the church that made the first universities, and colleges...and it was they that funded the first research into things which did not have an economic purpose...

without that, we would have no science today as we know it
we would still have craft knowlege which liberals looking back think of as science
but its basis was percieving a trend and working it, without explanation
which made it easy for the left to pretend it dont count if you dont understand why
but it does count... you dont have to know feotal alcohol syndrom to notice the blocked heads from alcohol... its just a way for philospophers who come up with ideas like bloodletting, sacrifice, and so on.

heck, they have normalized the idea of intervening in kids lives to mold them for the future
wasnt it dr mengele that normalized that? didnt he experiment on the public like the left in social experiments a la marx, and want to mold them for the future?

i guess thats what false consensus gets you..

May 01, 2013
error

May 01, 2013
You are saying that NHTSA has not been a majory player in developing safety codes. How do you measure who has had the most impact?

IIHS has more stringent tests than the govt and auto companies work hard to pass those IIHS tests.


May 01, 2013
how is suggesting that private company/government partnerships may be a good model classist?

That's how you think according to your posts: society vs govt vs science vs industry vs...collectives.
I am asking if you feel that government should have a role in establishing codes such as work health and safety codes.


No. I said govt has a roll in protecting private property. The proper role of any govt in the Bangladesh case is to prosecute the owners of the building for murder and apply strict penalties, and facilitate lawsuits by the victims for reparations from the owners and their insurance companies.

What is dj's solution to corrupt govt building inspectors? Codes don't matter if inspectors can be bribed. Laws don't matter if they are not enforced.

The way I described above, there are many incentives for safe buildings.

And of course now, with all the publicity, fewer customers will buy products from Bangladesh.

May 01, 2013
At one time there was a consensus among science that blacks were inferior
german scientists had enough consensus that the public didnt really stop them from throwing jews into ovens along with many others.

care to comment on the history of such consensus and many others?


'Liberals' still maintain that consensus encouraging the poor to murder their babies. Planned Parenthood was founded by a eugenicist.

May 01, 2013
That, AO, is pure unadulterated BS.

Are you a congenital liar or one of convenience of the moment?

http://australian...e-cause/

May 01, 2013
private company/government partnerships

The first of such 'partnership's which began the 'progressive' era was the FDA. The five largest meat packers colluded to support the creation of the FDA to limit their competition.
Other such 'partnerships' were the Federal Reserve and then the alphabet soup of the Regulatory State promoting crony capitalism.
There are costs for such collusion. I bet GE Capital was pressured by Obama to stop loaning money to any gun business.
Enron colluded to promote the Kyoto Treaty and Microsoft learned its lesson when Clinton sued them.
Then there is the NM Spaceport seeking special laws from the state so no one can hold it liable.
And then there is the classic Army control of the US rivers and their failure in New Orleans.
And of course there would not have been a transcontinental railroad if the govt didn't give the railroad companies one square mile of land for each mile of rail.

May 01, 2013
That, AO, is pure unadulterated BS.

Are you a congenital liar or one of convenience of the moment?

http://australian...e-cause/

Trying to revoke the PhD of those who don't agree with you is a common practice of science, right?
http://www.forbes...esearch/

May 01, 2013
So R2, Ummm how man conspiracies do you believe in? You seem to blame liberals for all of them, but when I read them, I see it was liberals working to fix problems created by un-regulated companies that abused their power. Kind of what exist today with the 1% of the 1% who own nearly all of the wealth of this once great nation. It's those people that really have divided us into the us vs them. When the political influence of a few can control and manipulate the politics of a nation (or as in Koch and his tea partiers, the science of the nation).

R2, it's a real shame your such an extremist that everything you see that you disagree with is some socialist plot. Wingnut is only proper.

May 01, 2013
I see it was liberals working to fix problems created by un-regulated companies that abused their power.


What unregulated companies that abuse their power?
All companies are regulated by their competition and by their customers.
I can SHOW how 'liberals' 'fix' problems by following the bidding of a supporter to squash a competitor.
One of your fellow 'liberals' so stated with MS:
"Look, buddy, there is an American way of doing things, and that American way includes hiring lobbyists, paying lawyers vast sums by the hour, throwing lavish parties for politicians, aides, journalists, and so on. So get with the program. So that's what Microsoft did. It moved its government affairs office out of distant Chevy Chase, Md., and into the downtown K Street corridor. It bulked up on lawyers and hired the best-connected lobbyists. "
http://articles.l...20110405
This is the 'progressive' way.

May 01, 2013
When the political influence of a few

Like Soros, or Buffet, or major banks, or unions, or...?

It's those people that really have divided us into the us vs them


'Those people', like Obama:
Obama:
"We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for a ride, but they gotta sit in back."
http://answers.ya...8AAqhUnU

For the 'liberal'/socialist/AGWite, it's either join or die.

Notice now how shrill the 'liberals' will get as their AGW policies fail, when their gun control attempts failed, as their economy fails....

May 01, 2013
Fred, Charles and David Koch graduated from MIT. I'm sure they learned something about science.

May 01, 2013
Fred, Charles and David Koch graduated from MIT. I'm sure they learned something about science.

Well, I would not doubt that, but greed can be a big motivator for destroying science if it doesn't fit your needs. In the case of the tea partiers, there motivation is barn yard cow lick stupidity on how science works or how government works or how government debt creates wealth, and helps the GDP. I wonder if your in that group. You've claimed in the past to be a Libertarian. I've admired the Independence attributes that Libertarians believe in, but I also find they are lacking in realistic approaches to the problems found in urban populations.


May 01, 2013
How can a govt create wealth by first destroying wealth?
realistic approaches to the problems found in urban populations.

The socialists are doing a great job for urban populations in Detroit, Chicago, NY, CA,....
AGWites and PC 'liberals' are doing great job of destroying science.

I have no idea how you can read classism into a statement that suggests that a business/gvt/community partnership may be a good model


Because you don't see individual people. You see classes of people: govt, business, society.

'Govt' and 'business' should be independent subsets of 'society'.
Govt is created by people in a society to protect each individuals right to life, liberty and property.
'Business' are people in a society that create wealth by producing products and services other people in the society want and need.
But the 'progressive' sees separate entities and more likely think society and business are subsets of the govt.

May 01, 2013

" "It's only "good science" if the message is politically correct." This perfectly captures the reaction to both evolutionary psychology and intelligence research from scientists and civilians alike. Any study that demonstrates that there are innate sex or race differences is a priori "bad science." Any study that demonstrates that there are no innate sex or race differences is a priori "good science." "
http://www.psycho...ly-corre

May 01, 2013

""A largely jobless recovery coupled with a Quantitative-Easing-fueled stock market rally seems to earn more smiles from the upscale among us, fewer from the working class," said the pollsters."
http://washington.../2528621
Hottie, how does inflating the dollar, putting more people on welfare increase GDP?
And why do so many wealthy support Obama?

May 01, 2013
R2, "How can a govt create wealth by first destroying wealth?" First, how is does govt destroy wealth? Other than wars, or deflation (read austerity), there is not much else. Everything else is designed to create a playing field were wealth is created. That is the purpose of govt. Its to provide a playing field where the population can have benefits from working hard, being creative and building home and family.

You make some of the broadest false claims I know of R2. "But the 'progressive' sees separate entities and more likely think society and business are subsets of the govt." How do you figure that? According to the US constitution, and the construction of our democratic and representative form of government, we rule ourselves. Unfortunately we've given power to corporations and treat corporations as special people. That is where the problems of modern politics has it's roots. Both your issues and mine.



May 01, 2013
ens of thousands of scientists are studying the climate, and helping us understand what an intelligent species would do in response to this potential catastrophe


This is called central planning by committee, aka communism.

False equivalency. And, you already knew that, but decided to see if you could get away with it without being called out.

The much better alternative is for billions of people to may thousands of daily choices in their self- interest and let the entrepreneurs, not govt funded scientists, find alternatives.
This method has been proven effective.

Pure unadulterated BS.

The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.

May 01, 2013
And why do so many wealthy support Obama?
I don't know perhaps you can enlighten me. Could it be that they like him? Could it be that he make sound decisions based on reason. Could it be that you can sit down and have a beer with him.

Hottie, how does inflating the dollar, putting more people on welfare increase GDP?
This is one for an ECON class, but you want to have a small background inflation in pricing, as it drives down the costs of fixed long term debt. That allow people to borrow more, build more and develop the economy further. That is something the austerity clowns seem to not understand. Of course you don't want extremes, but a small background inflation is good.

Let me plug the Khan Academy https://www.khana...-finance for some excellent basic discussion on economics and monetary fundamentals. Good stuff.


May 01, 2013
That, AO, is pure unadulterated BS.

Are you a congenital liar or one of convenience of the moment?

http://australian...e-cause/

Pure unadulterated BS.

Stick to scientific facts or shut up.

May 01, 2013
Fred, Charles and David Koch graduated from MIT. I'm sure they learned something about science.

Argumentum ad verecundiam.

Being an MIT alumnus is no guarantor of good behavior.

May 01, 2013
Deep, I visited that website and came to the conclusion that it's a complete waste of electrons even viewing it. The guy that runs it has nothing but air between his ears and just like every other dim-bulb denier out there, he has a conspiracy that somehow it's all mind control governmental black ops making up global warming to control the masses through fear.

Lol. What a joke. George W, managed to do that with the Iraq war, but I don't think you can make a good global conspiratorial model work if everything was OK, fine, and hunky-dory with the real world environment.

May 01, 2013
Deep, I visited that website and came to the conclusion that it's a complete waste of electrons even viewing it. The guy that runs it has nothing but air between his ears and just like every other dim-bulb denier out there, he has a conspiracy that somehow it's all mind control governmental black ops making up global warming to control the masses through fear.

No doubt brought to us by the same group that's behind "chemtrails" and having the Fed buy up as much ammunition as possible so that citizens won't be able to defend themselves against the men in the black helicopters.

What planet are these conspiracy nuts from?

May 02, 2013
Fred, Charles and David Koch graduated from MIT. I'm sure they learned something about science.

Argumentum ad verecundiam.

Being an MIT alumnus is no guarantor of good behavior.

The implication was the Koch's did not understand science.
And I agree, a Harvard law degree does not guarantee honest behavior.
The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.

Another class warrior. The masses are too stupid to know what's good for them so people like Sandy are needed to control them.
Value is in the eye of the beholder and may or may not be rational. Billions of such value judgements made everyday weed out theft and fraud.

May 02, 2013
First, how is does govt destroy wealth?

Taxes. Regulations.
where the population can have benefits from working hard, being creative and building home and family.


So why don't the 'progressive' govts do this?

May 02, 2013
Deep, I visited that website and came to the conclusion that it's a complete waste of electrons even viewing it. The guy that runs it has nothing but air between his ears and just like every other dim-bulb denier out there, he has a conspiracy that somehow it's all mind control governmental black ops making up global warming to control the masses through fear.
-- howhot
Let us not forget though that there are dark forces that really support the anti-AGW positions that are tied in political circles to the rightwing of the US. Anti seems like the kind of guy (based his posts) that would take the influence money of the dark depraved ones.
What do you think, put him in FEMA region 9?
-- howhot
With these AGW Alarmist Zealots, the line between paranoia and stupidity is very fine. I blame the AGW kool-aid, but then again most of them are obviously quite stupid.

May 02, 2013
The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.


Then who is an based on what criteria? Further what makes those criteria more valid than any other and why? In short give us your basis for purely objective morality and philosophy...

You'd be the first to do so...

May 02, 2013
The more people believe scientists agree about climate change, the more willing they are to support government action, even when their party affiliation is taken into account.


Well I'm the exception to that. I believe climate change is real and I have to snicker at anyone who thinks carbon taxes or any other impotent governmental action is going to work any better than any other government regulation ever does. People ALWAYS find a way around such regulations, they simply don't work.

The real solution is technological, best be about that if your actually serious about curbing carbon emissions and not ACTUALLY pushing for more government control of the energy industry and hiding behind climate change to do so....

May 02, 2013
Rygg suggests that the solution to unscrupulous business owners who build cheap buildings, and the buildings collapse on the slave labor occupants in said buildings - is to empower the dead workers to sue the owners. Yep - that will solve the problem. Time to quit.


The Bangladeshi govt FAILED so dj expects the Bangladeshi govt to fix its failures? What is their motivation to fix their corrupt system?

May 02, 2013
The Bangladeshi Government didn't build the building that collapsed. Neither did it own it, lease it, or occupy it.

"The Bangladeshi govt FAILED" - RyggTard

Those 400 lives were lost due to pure Capitalism.

May 02, 2013
Do you pay taxes, MysticalTard?

Do you obey traffic laws?

"People ALWAYS find a way around such regulations, they simply don't work." - MysticalTard

Do you murder your neighbours?

Do you rape their children?

To you take off your shoes at the airport? (bahahahahahah)

Talk is cheap... Loser.

May 02, 2013
"In short give us your basis for purely objective morality and philosophy." - MysticalTard

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." would be that basis.

Now if you wish to shit in my drinking water feel free to visit your local sewer and start to chow down.

If you intend to cause the deaths of millions to maintain your corrupt and wasteful lifestyle, then I assume that you have permitted me to take your life for the purpose of my pleasure.

I presume you will agree.

What is your address by the way?


May 02, 2013
"the line between paranoia and stupidity is very fine." - AntiGorical

A hilarious statement coming from a retard such as yourself who thinks that economic growth can continue to be exponential.

Where were you so poorly educated?

May 02, 2013
"Time to quit." - dir

Unfortunately you can't get off the TeaPublican carnival ride if you are an American.

44% of Republicans feel they that they will have to take part in an armed revolution in the next few years.

http://cnsnews.co...ecessary

May 02, 2013
"What planet are these conspiracy nuts from?" - Deepsand

Planet Conservadopia, and it's forest moon of Libertoon.

May 02, 2013
The positive effects of inflating the dollar by a few percent per year are basic macroeconomics, and if the number of dollars does not increase with the rate of population increase, the economy is slowly starved of capital.

Poor RyggTard. His knowledge of economics is very close to Zero.

"Hottie, how does inflating the dollar, putting more people on welfare increase GDP?" - RyggTard

The unemployed are of course largely created by Capitalists.

This is particularly true in the U.S. where Conservatives have conspired with Capitalists to move American Jobs to low wage nations.

Government has a choice of either allowing tens of millions of Americans to be thrown out on the street and starve or supply them with social welfare payments to keep them housed and fed.

RyggTard and his Libertarian/Randite brethren, demand that the unemployed be thrown into the gutter for the crime of being the victim of failed Libertarian/Randite economic policies that took away their jobs.


May 02, 2013
Another Stupid question from the Randite. Is it even possible to show more stupidity?

"How can a govt create wealth by first destroying wealth?" - RyggTard

The same way a business can create wealth by borrowing money.

Poor RyggTard. Like all Libertarians, his knowledge of economics is essentially ZERO.

May 02, 2013
Proving that graduating from MIT does not prohibit corruption, greed, deviance, or ideological ignorance.

"Fred, Charles and David Koch graduated from MIT" - RyggTard

Why do you suggest that it does?

May 02, 2013
Fred, Charles and David Koch graduated from MIT. I'm sure they learned something about science.

Argumentum ad verecundiam.

Being an MIT alumnus is no guarantor of good behavior.

The implication was the Koch's did not understand science.

The Koch bros. degrees are in general, mechanical and chemical engineering.

That does not make them knowledgeable in Physics, which is the body of Science that underlies climate.

The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.

Another class warrior.

A deliberate misrepresentation.

My statement is patently true on its face. Deny it and once again demonstrate the degree of your duplicity.


May 02, 2013
Deep, I visited that website and came to the conclusion that it's a complete waste of electrons even viewing it. The guy that runs it has nothing but air between his ears and just like every other dim-bulb denier out there, he has a conspiracy that somehow it's all mind control governmental black ops making up global warming to control the masses through fear.
-- howhot
Let us not forget though that there are dark forces that really support the anti-AGW positions that are tied in political circles to the rightwing of the US. Anti seems like the kind of guy (based his posts) that would take the influence money of the dark depraved ones.
What do you think, put him in FEMA region 9?
-- howhot
With these AGW Alarmist Zealots, the line between paranoia and stupidity is very fine. I blame the AGW kool-aid, but then again most of them are obviously quite stupid.

TROLL.

May 02, 2013
The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.


Then who is an based on what criteria?

If you need to ask the question then you are clearly not qualified for making decisions that affect anyone other than yourself.

May 02, 2013
The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.


Then who is an based on what criteria?

If you need to ask the question then you are clearly not qualified for making decisions that affect anyone other than yourself.

You can't or won't answer?
"It is a widespread fallacy that skillful advertising can talk the consumers into buying everything that the advertiser wants them to buy. The consumer is, according to this legend, simply defenseless against high-pressure advertising. If this were true, success or failure in business would depend on the mode of advertising only."
http://mises.org/quotes.aspx

May 02, 2013
"The basis of modern economics is the cognition that it is precisely the disparity in the value attached to the objects exchanged that results in their being exchanged. People buy and sell only because they appraise the things given up less than those received. Thus the notion of a measurement of value is vain. An act of exchange is neither preceded nor accompanied by any process which could be called a measuring of value. An individual may attach the same value to two things; but then no exchange can result. But if there is a diversity in valuation, all that can be asserted with regard to it is that one a is valued higher, that it is preferred to one b. Values and valuations are intensive quantities and not extensive quantities. They are not susceptible to mental grasp by the application of cardinal numbers. "
http://www.econli...A11.html

May 02, 2013
"Thus the owners of the material factors of production and the entrepreneurs are virtually mandataries or trustees of the consumers, revocably appointed by an election daily repeated. "
"The position which entrepreneurs and capitalists occupy in the market economy is of a different character. A "chocolate king" has no power over the consumers, his patrons. He provides them with chocolate of the best possible quality and at the cheapest price. He does not rule the consumers, he serves them. The consumers are not tied to him. They are free to stop patronizing his shops. He loses his "kingdom" if the consumers prefer to spend their pennies elsewhere."http://www.econli...page-bar
It's no surprise socialists like sandy despise the consumer.

May 02, 2013
I see govt. as having a legitimate role here.

And they FAILED.
How do YOU propose to fix it?
How do you propose to instil honesty and virtue into their govt. A govt historically one of empire.

"Corruption and marginal enforcement of property rights have driven people and enterprises out of the formal sector."
"Despite some progress in streamlining business regulations, entrepreneurial activity is hampered by an uncertain regulatory environment and the absence of effective long-term institutional support for private-sector development. The government's inability to provide basic public goods further limits economic opportunities for business development and job growth."
"Corruption remains a serious problem."
http://www.herita...ngladesh

BTW, one role of the govt IS to facilitate lawsuits and reparations.

May 02, 2013
The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.


Then who is an based on what criteria?

If you need to ask the question then you are clearly not qualified for making decisions that affect anyone other than yourself.

You can't or won't answer?

The answer is patently obvious to anyone with a wee bit of common sense.

"It is a widespread fallacy that skillful advertising can talk the consumers into buying everything that the advertiser wants them to buy. The consumer is, according to this legend, simply defenseless against high-pressure advertising. If this were true, success or failure in business would depend on the mode of advertising only."
http://mises.org/quotes.aspx

IMMATERIAL.

May 02, 2013
It surely must be recognized that many societies (such as Europe, and N.America) seem to do a better job of protecting citizens from such blatant evils - perhaps our unions has something to do with this,


Unions? Really?

May 02, 2013
"And they FAILED." Correct - as did the building owner. Funny how
rygg is only able to see one side of things. Sorry Rygg - I don't have a magic wand - or the power to change the world over night. Read my last post and try to understand what I was saying to see what my hope is as we move forward. The other countries i mentioned are doing a better job - for the reasons I outlined. Sure beats telling the dead people to sue the building owner....... cont.

But you are all VERY quick to blame those evil businesses who are having clothing made there that people want to buy.
The ONLY solution is for more businesses to set up shop there, hire more people, create more wealth so they can afford to build better. But if the govt remains corrupt/socialist, there will be no progress.
And the reason the rich countries are doing better is they have earned wealth and suffered the same growing pains.

May 02, 2013
The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.


Then who is an based on what criteria?

If you need to ask the question then you are clearly not qualified for making decisions that affect anyone other than yourself.

You can't or won't answer?

The answer is patently obvious to anyone with a wee bit of common sense.

"It is a widespread fallacy that skillful advertising can talk the consumers into buying everything that the advertiser wants them to buy. The consumer is, according to this legend, simply defenseless against high-pressure advertising. If this were true, success or failure in business would depend on the mode of advertising only."
http://mises.org/quotes.aspx

IMMATERIAL.

Right. You have NO answer. NO basis. NO rationale for your belief.

May 02, 2013
"Sohel Rana is a local politician connected to the ruling Awami League and, like other political party cadres, was used to exert intimidating influence on the employees and local people. This was the main reason why so many workers entered the ill-fated building even after knowing its condition.

Party hooliganism is not uncommon in Bangladesh, but this has multiplied in worrying proportions during the tenure of the current government. Some factory owners who are political cadres of the ruling party are known to use their employees as political pawns. For some it is the way of moving into the world of influence and affluence within the span of the government. Most of these 'hooligan' politicians forget their ordinary roots and indulge in vulgar display of wealth and power."
http://www.the-pl...tragedy/
Sound like Obama's style of govt and crony 'capitalism'.

May 02, 2013
The consumer is neither sufficiently educated and rational for making all necessary informed decisions nor capable of controlling what choices entrepreneurs offer.


Then who is an based on what criteria?

If you need to ask the question then you are clearly not qualified for making decisions that affect anyone other than yourself.

You can't or won't answer?

The answer is patently obvious to anyone with a wee bit of common sense.

"It is a widespread fallacy that skillful advertising can talk the consumers into buying everything that the advertiser wants them to buy. The consumer is, according to this legend, simply defenseless against high-pressure advertising. If this were true, success or failure in business would depend on the mode of advertising only."
http://mises.org/quotes.aspx

IMMATERIAL.

Right. You have NO answer. NO basis. NO rationale for your belief.

NON-SUBSTANTIVE.

May 02, 2013
The scheme was exposed by the media - video was made of the inspectors taking the bribes - people were fired. So I guess there are some incentives we can build in to try to expose corruptions.


NOT exposed by the govt. 60 Minutes and 20/20 used to expose such corruption. Now these media are complicit in such corruption, like Pigford: "Turns out conservative crusader Andrew Breitbart was correct when he exposed a multibillion-dollar redistribution scheme to African-American farmers based on largely dubious claims of discrimination."

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.inves...SBhxxiVk
Follow us: @IBDinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook
buildings are collapsing every day

Dikes built by the US govt fail. Especially in New Orleans.


May 02, 2013
I see it was liberals working to fix problems created by un-regulated companies that abused their power.


What unregulated companies that abuse their power?
All companies are regulated by their competition and by their customers.

Do you really think that we are so stupid as to buy into that fairy tale? :rolleyes:

May 02, 2013
"The basis of modern economics is the cognition that it is precisely the disparity in the value attached to the objects exchanged that results in their being exchanged. People buy and sell only because they appraise the things given up less than those received.l

Anyone who really believes this nonsense lives in a very sheltered and privileged world.

May 02, 2013
Thus the owners of the material factors of production and the entrepreneurs are virtually mandataries or trustees of the consumers, revocably appointed by an election daily repeated.

Yet another lie of monstrous proportion.

May 02, 2013
The US govt keeps saying the consumer drives the economy. That's was Mises said, too.
When the economy was collapsing the govt tried many ways for the taxpayers to keep more of their money, cut social security taxes, tax rebates, ....
Why would they do that if the consuming taxpayer wasn't the real driver of the economy?

When Sandy trades his money for a product or service he values both equally? If so, why do you trade? Why not keep your money if it has the same value to you?

May 02, 2013
"NOT exposed by the govt. 60 Minutes and 20/20 used to expose such corruption"

Did I not say 'media' Did you not therefore just agree with me? Help Help - you are talking and you can't shut up. And by the way - yes - the unions have done a great deal over the years to protect the rights of workers. Do some reading on the British coal mines in the 1800's....

Right, you said the MEDIA uncovered the govt corruption. So why didn't the govt?
The media and 'word of mouth' are two ways consumers can learn and find out from other consumers who produces quality products and services and is much more responsive than the govt. Yet dj insists govt must step in and create some regulation.

Unions did a great job protecting the rights of Detroit's workers.
Unions decimated manufacturing jobs let's hope govt unions do the same for govt jobs.

May 02, 2013
"This method has been proven effective." Yes - but there are also problems. Do you support government oversight of building codes? Or do you approve of a world in which factories packed to the hilt with low paid workers collapse - and kill hundreds of workers?

Do you support govt regulations that are not enforced and are used to enrich agents for the govt.?
Laws and regulations that are actively ignored and used to enrich govt agents are worse than no laws and regulations.
The current regime won't enforce immigration laws and actively prevent state govts from enforcing immigration laws to protect their citizens. Why?
"More laws, less justice." Cicero

May 02, 2013
A laughable question coming from a Retard who never answers questions put to you.

"You can't or won't answer?" - RyggTard

Yours was answered.

May 02, 2013
Rygg, you're long on straw men and short on substance.

You have but two choices: anarchy and hierarchy. Which do you choose?


May 02, 2013
It doesn't occur to dimwits like RyggTard that regulations that are not enforced can not be used to enrich anyone.

"Do you support govt regulations that are not enforced and are used to enrich agents for the govt.?" - RyggTard

Why do you support and promote wage Slavery RyggTard?

May 03, 2013
"The current regime won't enforce immigration laws and actively prevent state govts from enforcing immigration laws to protect their citizens. Why?" - RyggTard

RyggTard conveniently ignores the face that the Supreme Court has upheld the position that it is unconstitutional for states to take action regarding national border security.

Isn't it odd how TeaPublicans like RyggTard are perpetually whining about the unconstitutional nature of things that have been deemed by the supreme court to be constitutional, and when it comes to issues like Mexican Immigration ignore the fact that their own demands are unconstitutional?

Like every other Fascist who came before him.... RyggTard attacks the immigrants for the failings of his own political ideology.

From the Libertarian Party Platform...

Cont...

May 03, 2013
Cont...

We hold that human rights should not be denied or abridged on the basis of nationality. We condemn massive roundups of Hispanic Americans and others by the federal government in its hunt for individuals not possessing required government documents. We strongly oppose all measures that punish employers who hire undocumented workers. Such measures repress free enterprise, harass workers, and systematically discourage employers from hiring Hispanics.

...

We therefore call for the elimination of all restrictions on immigration, the abolition of the Immigration and Naturalization Service and the Border Patrol, and a declaration of full amnesty for all people who have entered the country illegally.

Poor RyggTard.. His ignorance extends even to his own Libretarian/Randite Liedeology...

There is stupid, and then there is TeaPublican stupid.

May 03, 2013

"Unions did a great job protecting the rights of Detroit's workers." - RyggTard

You are right. They did. But then Conservatives came to power and told American Businesses to send American Jobs overseas, thereby causing mass unemployment in America.

The off-shoring policies of the Republicans came from direct from Libertarian think tanks during the Greed is the ultimate good era of the 80's and 90's.

Some dare call this Libertarian economic policy, "treason".

Why don't you RyggTard?

May 03, 2013
It is also what all Keynesian economists say.

Of course, they said it first. Mises just parrots them on this point.

"The US govt keeps saying the consumer drives the economy. That's was Mises said, " - RyggTard

Odd isn't it how every government policy that has come from Libertarian Economists has turned out to be a complete disaster for America.

The current economic downturn in America was of course the direct result of the Libertarian/Randite economic policies of Milton Freedman, who admitted to this very fact in front of congress.

Poor RyggTard. He is so ideologically programmed that he can't even accept the acceptance of guilty by the principle disciple of his own Liedeology.

Filth.

May 03, 2013
You have to understand RyggTard's thougth processes.

One aspect of his Randite ideology holds that government regulation always produces the opposite effect it was intended to mitigate.

So if there are regulations that prevent buildings from falling down, and one falls down then it is the Government's fault.

His solution is to vanquish building codes so that the lack of government regulation will cause businesses to build better buildings that won't fall down.

"buildings are collapsing every day here in the U.S. Let's blame the government" - dir

It is complete idiocy of course. But Idiocy is what Randism and Libertarianism is all about, as you are rapidly learning.


May 03, 2013
"Unions? Really?" - RyggTard

Yup. Really...

THE TRIANGLE SHIRTWAIST FACTORY FIRE

http://www.osha.g...ire.html

May 03, 2013
It is clear that RyggTard, like all of his Libertarian/Randite brothers put "wanting to buy" above the lives of the 400 workers who died when the building collapsed.

"But you are all VERY quick to blame those evil businesses who are having clothing made there that people want to buy." - RyggTard

Libertarian/Randite Filth.

May 03, 2013
You have offered no evidece let alone proof that they can't build better.

"The ONLY solution is for more businesses to set up shop there, hire more people, create more wealth so they can afford to build better" - RyggTard

We do have evidence that your claim of not being able to build better is a lie.

And that comes from the fact that not all of the buildings in Bangladesh are falling down.

This one did, and did because Capitalists decided to maximize profits by putting the lives of it's workers at risk.

The Company owner didn't lose his life. Neither has the building contractor. But 400 of their wage slaves did.

But what is the life of a slave compared to that of the slave master?

May 03, 2013
"And they FAILED." - RyggTard

Police fail to prevent murders every day.

According to RyggTard's Libertarian "logic" the government is therefore responsible for every murder and all laws prohibiting murder should be repealed.

It is pure idiocy of course. But that is what Libertarianism and Randism is. Pure idiocy.

May 03, 2013
"How do YOU propose to fix it?" - RyggTard

Execute the CEO of the corporation who ran the factory that collapsed, as well as the CEO of the business that built it.

Send a message to Businessmen that such crimes will not be tolerated.

May 03, 2013
Now that:
AGW fabrications, which the Cult call science, have all been thoroughly debunked.
AGW Alarmism has failed. Remember the Polar Bears? Well, you don't have to, they are doing fine. You can still go and see them in the wild.
AGW intimidation of the 3% of TRUE climate scientists has failed.
The Convenient Lie has failed. It, however, did make the Cult's Vicar, Gore, a multimillionaire.
So with the globe cooling and the AGW Cult out of lies, they have now come full circle. This time, however, it's "scientists agree" not just 97%.
AGW Lies, the old is new again, but now with 3% more.

May 03, 2013
Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis
http://www.forbes...-crisis/

May 03, 2013
Abstract of the article that anti-goracle references that relies on a small survey of petroleum engineers.

Abstract

This paper examines the framings and identity work associated with professionals' discursive construction of climate change science, their legitimation of themselves as experts on 'the truth', and their attitudes towards regulatory measures. Drawing from survey responses of 1077 professional engineers and geoscientists, we reconstruct their framings of the issue and knowledge claims to position themselves within their organizational and their professional institutions. In understanding the struggle over what constitutes and legitimizes expertise,

May 03, 2013
Cont...

we make apparent the heterogeneity of claims, legitimation strategies, and use of emotionality and metaphor. By linking notions of the science or science fiction of climate change to the assessment of the adequacy of global and local policies and of potential organizational responses,

we contribute to the understanding of 'defensive institutional work' by professionals within petroleum companies, related industries, government regulators, and their professional association.

No science in that article. It is pure intellectual faggotry.

And even here the Denialists are misrepresenting the data in the article.

The denialists claim that this report shows that only 35 percent of scientists agree with the fact that the global warming is occurring.

In fact, the article only uses a tiny subset of scientists - petroleum geologists and chemists - and even here, the Denialists misrepresent the article by excluding subsets of scientists who agree that anthropogenic CONT

May 03, 2013
cont...

anthropogenic warming is occurring but who fall into different categories

Categories such as...

Regulation Activists
Fatalists
Economic Responsibility
Nature is Overwhelming
Comply with Kyoto.

Only the percentage from the Comply with Kyoto group is reported by the Denialists, and the petroleum scientists in the other groups who accept the science of anthropogenic warming in the other groups are not counted.

It is pure dishonesty of course. But that is what Conservatives and Denialists are all about.

May 03, 2013
Your convenient lies have never succeeded, Tard Boy.

"The Convenient Lie has failed. " - Antigorical

Your dishonesty is transparent.

May 03, 2013
Your convenient lies have never succeeded, Tard Boy.

"The Convenient Lie has failed. " - Antigorical

Your dishonesty is transparent.

Warmists Display Cowardice and Hypocrisy In Avoiding Global Warming Debate
http://www.forbes...-debate/
The United Nations is doubling down on ignorance and bias for its upcoming Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
http://www.forbes...norance/
Gore's obscene electricity usage
http://www.beacon...t-truth/

May 03, 2013
Only the percentage from the Comply with Kyoto group is reported by the Denialists, and the petroleum scientists in the other groups who accept the science of anthropogenic warming in the other groups are not counted.

It is pure dishonesty of course. But that is what Conservatives and Denialists are all about.


Conspiracy!


May 03, 2013

Conspiracy!



No, dumdum, what you quoted is called a deliberate misrepresentation. A conspiracy is when someone (say againstseeing or your own self) suggests that everyone involved in a study that is peer reviewed and reported in a scientific journal is paid to lie, and are part of a global group ("they") that are trying to steal your money, or liberties, or first born child or something.

Of course, you don't understand that because you are the guy who claims he didn't claim a conspiracy because he didn't use the word "conspiracy" while describing the conspiracy he sees all about him.

May 03, 2013
It's only a conspiracy when it's convenient for you, delusional rubes!

May 03, 2013
And there's againstseeing, quoting from the Heartland Institute's own favourite denier, James Taylor. The claim is, of course, a deception, or more likely total incompetence, on the part of Heartland's favorite "environment" denier. He links to a paper in the journal Organization studies and makes a false and easily refuted misrepresentation that a mere 36% of scientists hold the consensus view that AGW is occurring. He uses cherry-picked data from a survey of largely industry engineers and geoscientists from Alberta tar sands based companies.

My my, how desperate the denier camp has become! Everyone involved in the subject is aware of Heartland's bias and Koch brothers funding. Laughable!!!!

May 03, 2013
It's only a conspiracy when it's convenient for you, delusional rubes!


No, dumdum, its not a conspiracy at all! You just THINK it's a conspiracy because you are an apparent paranoid and delusional individual who believes almost anything put onto a website, as long as it has pretty graphics and good writing, and "appears" to go against "the mainstream". You never learned to use the simple logic and critical thinking skills that allow you to avoid being duped by pseudo-scientific nonsense.

It's kind of sad, actually, such a waste.

May 03, 2013
"Right, you said the MEDIA uncovered the govt corruption. So why didn't the govt?"

Cuz they were corrupt stupid...

Do you support govt regulations that are not enforced and are used to enrich agents for the govt.?

Absolutely not - do you? Why do you always answer a question with a question? Maybe cuz you can't think for yourself.

The current regime won't enforce immigration laws and actively prevent state govts from enforcing immigration laws to protect their citizens. Why?

I don't know - you will have to ask them wont you?..


And MORE govt regulations will fix it, according to dj.

May 03, 2013
Fact. And a fact admitted in the article body that was misrepresented to by the Deniallist.

"Conspiracy!" - CantdriveTooStupid

May 03, 2013
That would depend on the regulation. Some regulaions fail because they are designed by Traitors to sere the purpose of failing.

"And MORE govt regulations will fix it, according to dj." - RyggTard

This is in part why Laws crafted by Ramdotee amdLibertarian think tanks have been such a spectacular failure for America.


May 03, 2013
es I do believe the gvt has a role to play

So what role did govt play in the Bangladesh building collapse, besides not enforcing laws?
more enlightened society (bereft of religion

What made western society enlightened was religious based virtue.
Without virtue of citizens and this elected to govt, govt must become totalitarian. Which is what most here seem to prefer.

May 04, 2013
"what role did govt play in the Bangladesh building collapse" - RyggTard

None.

It is a pure Capitalist Failure. Another 400 murders by blood soaked business men.


May 04, 2013
What created the dark ages was religious based virtue.

"What made western society enlightened was religious based virtue." - RyggTard

May 04, 2013
Now that:
AGW fabrications, which the Cult call science, have all been thoroughly debunked.
AGW Alarmism has failed. Remember the Polar Bears? Well, you don't have to, they are doing fine. You can still go and see them in the wild.
AGW intimidation of the 3% of TRUE climate scientists has failed.
The Convenient Lie has failed. It, however, did make the Cult's Vicar, Gore, a multimillionaire.
So with the globe cooling and the AGW Cult out of lies, they have now come full circle. This time, however, it's "scientists agree" not just 97%.
AGW Lies, the old is new again, but now with 3% more.

LIAR.

May 04, 2013
Vendicar shows up and RyggTard's puts his balls in his mouth and sulks back to his place as a vile bridge troll.

May 04, 2013
Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis
http://www.forbes...-crisis/

Peer reviewed? Majority of scientists? ROTFLMAO.

Only a clueless idiot would expect to get away with pawning this off as being authoritative. :rolleyes:

May 04, 2013
"LIAR." - Deepsand

Yup, Antigoricle is certianly a congenital liar.

This is true of all global warming denialists, and TeaPublicans.

As someone who is trained in science, I believe that lying and the misrepresentation of data is the greatest crime that can be committed, since all other crimes stem from this distortion of truth.

Since Antigoricle, his denialist brethren and TeaPublicans are invariably congenital liars, I hold them with the greatest contempt humanly possible, for they continually commit the greatest crime possible.

Lying.


May 04, 2013
Your convenient lies have never succeeded, Tard Boy.

"The Convenient Lie has failed. " - Antigorical

Your dishonesty is transparent.

Warmists Display Cowardice and Hypocrisy In Avoiding Global Warming Debate
http://www.forbes...-debate/

TROLL TRASH

May 04, 2013

Survey of Peer-Reviewed Scientific Research
You will be shown the title and abstracts (summary) for 10 randomly selected scientific papers, obtained from a search of the ISI 'Web Of Science' database for papers matching the topic 'global warming' or 'global climate change' between 1991 to 2011. Please read each title and abstract then estimate the level of endorsement that is expressed in that paper for anthropogenic global warming (e.g., that human activity is causing global warming).

May 04, 2013
It's only a conspiracy when it's convenient for you, delusional rubes!

Which explains why you believe that AGW is a conspiracy.

May 04, 2013
Your convenient lies have never succeeded, Tard Boy.

"The Convenient Lie has failed. " - Antigorical

Your dishonesty is transparent.

Warmists Display Cowardice and Hypocrisy In Avoiding Global Warming Debate
http://www.forbes...-debate/

Another steaming heap of TROLL TRASH.

May 04, 2013
This is what I would expect from a very religious society.

What a bigot!
What is needed for any society to follow written and unwritten laws is virtue.
How do atheist/communist instill virtue?

May 04, 2013
ave not heard of any one recently blowing up others in the name of atheism

You didn't look very hard.
Communists, by definition are atheists and murdered millions.
The dear leader of North Korea executes those who fail him with mortars.

Virtue can come from the consideration that each of us is equally important, and we can build a system of virtue around the respect for the rights of all.


'Can' and 'do' are not the same.
How HAVE atheists instilled and promoted virtue?

May 04, 2013
Looks like govt failed to enforce the law to protect private property in West, TX.
"According to one 2002 crime report, a plant manager told police that intruders were stealing four to five gallons of anhydrous ammonia every three days. The liquid gas can be used to cook methamphetamine, the addictive and illicit stimulant."
http://www.reuter...20130503


May 04, 2013
"Failure to report significant volumes of hazardous chemicals at a site can lead the DHS to fine or shut down fertilizer operations, a person familiar with the agency's monitoring regime said. Though the DHS has the authority to carry out spot inspections at facilities, it has a small budget for that and only a "small number" of field auditors, the person said."
"More than 4,000 sites nationwide are subject to the DHS program.

"This shows that the enforcement routine has to be more robust, on local, state and federal levels," said the expert, Sam Mannan, director of process safety center at Texas A&M University. "If information is not shared with agencies, which appears to have happened here, then the regulations won't work.""
http://usnews.nbc...ght?lite

May 04, 2013
I see a lot of people planting bombs, and committing atrocities in the name of god

Not according to the Obama administration.
Like the Clinton admin, Obama refuses to acknowledge the role Islam plays in attacks upon the west.
But the current regime does attack Christians in the military.
This is consistent with an atheist/socialist state that needs to control its subjects. Islam has a similar need so the 'liberals' are simpatico to Islamic law.
This highlights anther example of how 'liberalism' is a mental disorder. Islamic law requires the stoning of homosexuals and restricts the liberty of women. But the 'liberals' don't mention this.

May 04, 2013
"Coverage of the Boston Marathon bombing has ignored admitted bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's connection to his college's Muslim Student Association, a group that has close relations with both the Muslim Brotherhood and a local imam friendly with an al-Qaida operative."
" Tsarnaev associated frequently with the Muslim Student Association (MSA) at University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth.

Read more: http://dailycalle...SKfCMQry


May 04, 2013


ignore all the evil being done in the name of your god -


I don't ignore evil, regardless of the motivation.
'Liberals', however, are very quick to ignore and support the evil done in the name of humanity.
'Liberals' ignore the babies murdered by Gosnell in his abortion clinic.
'Liberals' ignore those murdered in Bengazi by Islamists.
And we can't forget how 'liberals' ignore the millions murdered by communists in USSR, China, DPRK, Vietnam, .......
BTW, Planned Parenthood was founded by an atheist and supporter of eugenics.

May 04, 2013
By calling for an end to religion, and to all evil deeds that are done in the name of this, or that god.


Put your money where your mouth is, prove your assertion by:
1. Stand up and proclaim your atheism at Oral Roberts U. in Tulsa.
2. Do the same at Temple Square in SLC.
3. Do the same at the Vatican.
4. Do the same at the Western Wall.
5. Do the same in Mecca.
If you are still alive, publish your results.


May 04, 2013

I don't ignore evil, regardless of the motivation.

Yes you do. You spend your life spamming physorg (and probably other sites) with attacking 'liberals'. You constantly rail against the 'left' But you don't mention the evil being done by the 'right' On this very thread you have attacked Islam for the evil that it does - but fail to mention the evil being done in the name of the christian god (check out Westboro Baptists). You definitely are very selective in the evil that you are aware of.

'Liberalism' IS evil.
I don't ignore evil, but time and resources are limited so I focus on the 80% of those who are evil and a threaten liberty. 'Liberals' and Muslims top the list today.

May 04, 2013
I am more complex than you

So you say, but never demonstrate.
You chose to ignore that if you are an atheist in a Muslim state you would be executed so you wouldn't survive Mecca but you would survive every other location.
But dj claimed ALL religion is morally equivalent. A very simple, and false, observation.

Why is 'liberalism' evil? It denies that individuals have an inherent right to life, liberty and property and therefore any majority can proceed to deny life, liberty and property to any minority.
The atheist Ayn Rand said when you compromise with evil, evil wins.

May 04, 2013
You would consider Obama a liberal correct?

No, I consider Obama a Marxist.
And 'liberal' is the term the socialist FDR used in his campaign against the 'progressive' Hoover.
A more complex analysis shows an understanding that people are complex - some liberals are evil,

You then believe that some people who would put a gun to your head, or hire someone to do so, and take your property, your life are good?

May 04, 2013
"My time at Columbia made it crystal clear: liberals always believe they are morally superior. While they publicly state that their mission is to save the world from prejudice, patriotism, racism, greed, and inequality, they are, in fact, hostile and resentful towards anyone who has achieved self-made success through American values. It is in this cesspool of intolerance that Obama and his Marxist cronies hatched a secret plan to destroy our country. They openly hated America- calling it racist. They hated capitalism- and vowed to bring "the system down." "
"He (Obama) also admits publicly in his own book to not wanting to meet anyone at Columbia who wasn't black, Hispanic, gay, or a Marxist professor. His words. "
http://www.humane...assmate/

May 04, 2013
"The atheist Ayn Rand said when you compromise with evil, evil wins."

But you did not think one could entertain notions of virtue without reference to a god. Do you only think that libertarians can have notions of virtue without god - but others cannot?

Where are they?

May 04, 2013
To repeat, Rygg, you're long on straw men and short on substance.

You have but two choices: anarchy and hierarchy. Which do you choose?


May 04, 2013
RyggTard quotes from "Wayne Allyn Root" who discribes himself as "a Capitalist Evangelist, serial entrepreneur, and Libertarian-conservative media commentator".

In other words he is a nobody who pays homage to pure greed and pure immorality, and pure evil, as does RyggTard.

We see this also in RyggTard's personal hero - Ayn Rand - who befriended a child murderer and rapist and referred to him admiringly as a "moral superman".


May 04, 2013
To repeat, Rygg, you're long on straw men and short on substance.

You have but two choices: anarchy and hierarchy. Which do you choose?


There are many options to keep socialists at bay and the most significant option is the law of nature.
Socialism will always fail as it violates laws of nature, but not without weeping and gnashing of teeth.

May 04, 2013
To repeat, Rygg, you're long on straw men and short on substance.

You have but two choices: anarchy and hierarchy. Which do you choose?


There are many options to keep socialists at bay and the most significant option is the law of nature.
Socialism will always fail as it violates laws of nature, but not without weeping and gnashing of teeth.

DELIBERATELY EVADES THE QUESTION.

Anarchy or hierarchy? Pick one or admit that you're a Gordian Knot of contradictions.


May 04, 2013
To repeat, Rygg, you're long on straw men and short on substance.

You have but two choices: anarchy and hierarchy. Which do you choose?


There are many options to keep socialists at bay and the most significant option is the law of nature.
Socialism will always fail as it violates laws of nature, but not without weeping and gnashing of teeth.

DELIBERATELY EVADES THE QUESTION.

Anarchy or hierarchy? Pick one or admit defeat.

In the vernacular of My Cousin Vinny, it's a BS question.

May 04, 2013
To repeat, Rygg, you're long on straw men and short on substance.

You have but two choices: anarchy and hierarchy. Which do you choose?


There are many options to keep socialists at bay and the most significant option is the law of nature.
Socialism will always fail as it violates laws of nature, but not without weeping and gnashing of teeth.

DELIBERATELY EVADES THE QUESTION.

Anarchy or hierarchy? Pick one or admit defeat.

In the vernacular of My Cousin Vinny, it's a BS question.

Is that who taught you to speak BS?

In short, you are trapped and seek to evade by pretending that the question is not a valid one.

You are an INTELLECTUAL FRAUD, worthy only of scorn and ridicule.
.

May 04, 2013
You then believe that some people who would put a gun to your head, or hire someone to do so, and take your property, your life are good?

No - and I never said such a thing. I believe that many people who would be put in the category of 'liberal' by limited thinkers such as Rygg - are very good people. Some very religious people - who are also 'liberal' - such as my friend Jane - who is a church pastor - and a 'liberal' - are very kind, generous, loving people. See how complexity works - I did not think you would.

Your pastor wants the govt to confiscate wealth and redistribute to people SHE thinks should have such stolen wealth?
I would remind her that Jesus told the rich man to DONATE.
These people are very generous with other peoples money.
It really is quite simple.
The complexity enters in when dj and Jane compromise with evil, or overlook evil, to justify their 'good' and soothe their conscious.

May 04, 2013
What do you mean by' the law of nature?'

Socialists run out of other people's money.
Parasites die when their host dies.

May 04, 2013
Anarchy or hierarchy, Rygg?

Put or shut up.

May 04, 2013
Would you deny that America is a racist country? Do you know the history of slavery? Are you aware that the KKK is alive and well here in Oklahoma. Do you know nothing?


Slavery has a very long history. Modern slavery was banned in the British Empire because of he actions of Christians. Christians in the US also opposed slavery. Arab Muslims and other African blacks captured and sold slaves to the Western slave traders. Saudi Arabia banned slavery only a few decades ago and a Saudi official in Washington is accused of keeping slaves, NOW.
One of the leading democrat US Senators was a member of the KKK and AL, for the first time in over 100 years has a Republican majority in the legislature.
Blacks are racists among themselves judging each other by how dark or light their skin is.
Ever hear of the Black Panthers? How about La Raza (the race) a racist Mexican group. Or how about CAIR?
The US AG is a racist. He won't prosecute black on white crimes.

May 04, 2013
Where are they?

I am here - and there are many others here with me.


There must not be very many and you are all VERY quiet.

May 04, 2013
'Liberals' are racists. If a black or Latino or woman or homosexual is not a 'liberal' they are no longer considered to be black or Latino or a woman or a homosexual.
Here is a black conservative coming out of the closet.

https://www.youtu...BGdlfbfI

"But as Parker suggested, some black Americans still think they have to act, speak and behave in a certain way that conforms to the identity that a white, liberal media has created. "
"Whenever the mainstream media wants to know what the African American community is thinking, they invariably go to the usual old, left-wing voices, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, as if they speak for all black people.

Read more: http://www.foxnew...SNnEr8Pk


May 04, 2013
That is OK, because we consider you to be mentally diseased.

"I consider Obama a Marxist." - RyggTard

May 04, 2013
"The conservative rising star Dr. Ben Carson said on a Tuesday talk show that critics won't shut him up and that among the most vicious of his attackers were white liberals."
""They need to shut me up, they need to get rid of me," Dr. Carson said, as reported in Newsmax. "They can't find anything else to delegitimize me so they take my words, misinterpret them and try to make it seem that I'm a bigot."

Mr. Levin asked: And what about white liberals — how do they treat you?

"They're the most racist people there are because they put you in a little category, a box," Dr. Carson said. "How could you dare come off the plantation?"

Read more: http://www.washin...SNo44YTD
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

May 04, 2013
Where are they?

I am here - and there are many others here with me.


There must not be very many and you are all VERY quiet.

Or, it is the case that we decline to engage in the fool's errand of trying to engage in rational discourse with a sophist such as yourself.

May 04, 2013
"If a black or Latino or woman or homosexual is not a 'liberal' they are no longer considered to be black or Latino or a woman or a homosexual." - RyggTard

Yup. That is mental illness talking.

May 04, 2013

"The conservative rising star Dr. Ben Carson" - RyggTard

"Almost two full weeks since Tea Party folk hero Dr. Ben Carson appeared on Sean Hannity's Fox News show to insult the LGBT community by comparing same-sex marriage to bestiality and pedophilia, he announced on Wednesday that he was withdrawing as commencement speaker at Johns Hopkins' School of Medicine after a majority of the graduating class of 2013 signed a petition asking the administration to un-invite the neurosurgeon." - Think Progress

Yup. Sounds like a "Conservative rising star" to me.

May 04, 2013
""The white man is our mortal enemy, and we cannot accept him. I will fight to see that vicious beast go down into the lake of fire prepared for him from the beginning, that he never rise again to give any innocent black man, woman or child the hell that he has delighted in pouring on us for 400 years." -- Louis Farrakhan"
"You cannot go to a 7-11 or Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian Accent." -- Joe Biden
"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man." -- Joe Biden
"(Obama's) a nice person, he's very articulate this is what's been used against him, but he couldn't sell watermelons if it, you gave him the state troopers to flag down the traffic." -- Dan Rather
http://townhall.c...ge/full/

May 04, 2013
RyggTard never answers questions. Doing so would require thought and expose his inabiltiy to think for himself.

"Anarchy or hierarchy, Rygg? " - deepsand

May 04, 2013
Give an idiot the means and ample opportunity and he will eventually hang himself. Which, is precisely what Rygg has done by championing the "Law of Nature."

While he evaded the question put to him re anarchy or hierarchy, he implicitly chose the latter, as the Laws of Nature, be they those which govern the formation, destruction and interactions between particles, or those which govern the formation and operations of macro-systems, including those of flora and fauna, are all based on hierarchy.

So, the real question becomes one of what sort of hierarchy Rygg prefers. And, this is the question that he truly avoids, for the answer does not flatter him but rather demeans him.

Rygg's preference is, simply put, for a hierarchy in which all is subordinate to his own selfish desires.

May 04, 2013
Since you declined to define your terms in context, I had to research.
I choose anarchy.

May 04, 2013
"Your pastor wants the govt to confiscate wealth and redistribute to people SHE thinks should have such stolen wealth?" - RyggTard

Poor Christian RyggTard can't even figure out the instructions from his own bible.

"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" - Matthiew 22:21

Mental illness is like that.

May 04, 2013
"I choose anarchy." - RyggTard

What is your address? I'll come visit and show you some anarchy and how the "law of nature" works up real close.

Perhaps then you won't be such a parasite on mankind.


May 04, 2013
Since you declined to define your terms in context, I had to research.
I choose anarchy.

LIAR. Anarchy is NOT the "Law of Nature."

If you chose anarchy then your championing the Law of Nature is a lie.
Or, incredibly stupid.

If you chose the Law of Nature then anarchy is a lie.

Either way, you are a liar.

May 04, 2013
"The white man is our mortal enemy," - RyggTard quoting Farrakhan

Refreshing. I respect Farrakhan for his blunt defense of his beliefs, although they are mistaken.

I would share dinner with him, even though he is wrong, simply because his views come from a moral center.

Your views come from a woman who called a child molester and murderer a "moral superman".

I would not share dinner with you, as you are too loathsome as an individual.


May 04, 2013
Since Sandy won't define terms, I will."Anarchy means an absence of law. Sociologically it is the modern theory which proposes to do away with all existing forms of government and to organize a society which will exercise all its functions without any controlling or directive authority."
http://www.newadv...452a.htm

I am not championing the law of nature. I state that it exists. Socialism tries to wish away physics. Which is why it fails.

May 04, 2013
Since you declined to define your terms in context, I had to research.
I choose anarchy.

LIAR. Anarchy is NOT the "Law of Nature."

If you chose anarchy then your championing the Law of Nature is a lie.
Or, incredibly stupid.

If you chose the Law of Nature then anarchy is a lie.

Either way, you are a liar.

Or, incredibly stupid.

May 04, 2013
RyggTard remains blissfully unaware that he is constituted from a collection of single celled organisms that cooperate for the common good of the entire organism, even to the point of giving their own lives for the benefit of the whole.

"Socialism will always fail as it violates laws of nature" - RyggTard

Socialism the law of nature.

RyggTard's mental disease is keeping him ignorant.


May 04, 2013
Since Sandy won't define terms, I will."Anarchy means an absence of law. Sociologically it is the modern theory which proposes to do away with all existing forms of government and to organize a society which will exercise all its functions without any controlling or directive authority."
http://www.newadv...452a.htm

I am not championing the law of nature. I state that it exists. Socialism tries to wish away physics. Which is why it fails.

LIAR. You said "the most significant option is the law of nature."

And the Law of Nature is HIERARCHY, not anarchy.

Furthermore, to claim that anarchy would "organize a society which will exercise all its functions without any controlling or directive" is logically contradictory, as 1) anarchy involves the total absence of organization, which is the essence of society, and 2) no society can function as such absence a controlling mechanism, which perforce requires a hierarchy.


May 04, 2013
"I choose Anarchy" - RyggTard

"Anarchy means an absence of law." - RyggTard

Excellent. So you choose to live without any legal framework to protect yourself and your property from theft and destruction by others.

Your choice is the destruction of society and humanity so that your personal greed and your ability to that which rightfully belongs to others is not impeded or limited by law.

Tea-Baggers like you are a perfect example of the Intellectual and Moral Cancer that has all but destroyed America.

You need to be flushed.

May 04, 2013
Correct.

"Furthermore, to claim that anarchy would "organize a society which will exercise all its functions without any controlling or directive" is logically contradictory," - deepsand

I have seen it all before. Hundreds and hundreds of times over the last 30 years.

Libertarian/Randites like RyggTard are dime a dozen,.and they will say anything no matter how factually flawed, or logically inconsistent as long as it furthers their goal of promoting their own personal and corporate greed.

I on the other hand am completely honesty when I state that I have NEVER encountered a Libertarian or Randite who wasn't a congenial and perpetual liar.

RyggTard fits the pattern perfectly.

May 04, 2013
'Liberalism' IS evil." - RyggTard

Christ was a Liberal.

I therefore conclude that you are representing the interests of Lucifer.

May 04, 2013
What is the hierarchy of the four fundamental forces?

May 04, 2013
There are only three fundamental forces Tard Boy.

"What is the hierarchy of the four fundamental forces?" - RyggTard

They are

Electroweak
Strong
Gravitation

And these may yet be unified.

You can't even get the fundamentals right.

Moron.

May 05, 2013
1) anarchy involves the total absence of organization,

That's may be your definition, but not this one:
"a state of society without government or law. " This implies that a society exists so govt or law is NOT the essence of socity.

which is the essence of society, and 2) no society can function as such absence a controlling mechanism,


Again, if society exists without govt or law, it must be functioning so #2 is false.

May 05, 2013
What is the hierarchy of the four fundamental forces?

As your cousin Vinny would say, that's a BS question.

May 05, 2013
1) anarchy involves the total absence of organization,

That's may be your definition, but not this one:
"a state of society without government or law. " This implies that a society exists so govt or law is NOT the essence of socity.

TAUTOLOGICAL. A society does not "implicitly" exist just because your definition so claims.

which is the essence of society, and 2) no society can function as such absence a controlling mechanism,


Again, if society exists without govt or law, it must be functioning so #2 is false.

A society is defined by the rules that govern the relationship between its member.

No rules = no society = anarchy.

Stop being stupid.

May 05, 2013
A society is defined by the rules that govern the relationship between its member.

Is it?

May 05, 2013
The Latin word societas (joint pursuit, enjoyment, possession; society; alliance, partnership).
Why must there be rules to govern societas?

"The defining characteristic of society is that membership in a society is voluntary. Whenever a person feels that a society no longer meets their needs, they can exit it – choosing another one to replace it or even going without."
Fits into the definition of 'no rulers'.

May 05, 2013
The Latin word societas (joint pursuit, enjoyment, possession; society; alliance, partnership).
Why must there be rules to govern societas?

What do you think the word "joint" means? What do you think the words "alliance" and "partnership" imply?

"The defining characteristic of society is that membership in a society is voluntary.

What do you think the word "voluntary" implies?

Whenever a person feels that a society no longer meets their needs, they can exit it – choosing another one to replace it or even going without."
Fits into the definition of 'no rulers'.

If one exits such that they are not subject to society's rules, then they are NOT PART OF SOCIETY.

Not only are you a sophist, but a very bad one at that. :rolleyes:


May 05, 2013

If one exits such that they are not subject to society's rules, then they are NOT PART OF SOCIETY.

This would explain the AGW Cult's mentality and attitude towards the 3% of REAL Climate Scientists who refuse to tow the AGW LIE.

May 05, 2013

If one exits such that they are not subject to society's rules, then they are NOT PART OF SOCIETY.

This would explain the AGW Cult's mentality and attitude towards the 3% of REAL Climate Scientists who refuse to tow the AGW LIE.

Your attention span and vocabulary are rapidly shrinking.

May 05, 2013
Your history of slavery is terrible - you need to do some reading. The Christian church was highly complicit in the evil of slavery.


One must do a bit of research to see how the slave trade started in the Americas. From the arrival Columbus (financed not by Queen Isabelle, but Luis de Santangelo a "converted" joo) with the capture and subsequent sale of 500 natives by Columbus' "christian" (converted joos) passengers, to the ownership of the slave ships by jooish men in Newport and New Amsterdam, the slave trade was enabled by a duplicitous "race". Many of these same men were largely responsible for the "freedom of religion" portion of the Bill of Rights, a large portion of the early joos in America had been exiled from their countries of origin due to their destructive behavior and used their finances and influence to coerce the framers. The likelihood of a ship owner or a slave owner by joos was nearly 5 times higher than that of a non joo. Converted? Nope, just joos.

May 05, 2013
dj, the Christian church is less than 2000 years old. Slavery predates the Christian church by thousands of years.
Maybe its too simple for dj to understand, but any church is an organization. Members of that organization may not support everything the organization supports. Some like Martin Luther stood up, stated his objections and led to Protestantism who for the first time had the opportunity to read the New Testament. Wilberforce and others were a part of that Protestant group and were able to ban slavery throughout the British Empire.
British ships blockaded many African ports until they closed their slave markets.
Slavery still persists in Africa, Europe, and in the rest of the world in spite of regulation banning the practice.

May 05, 2013
dj, the Christian church is less than 2000 years old. Slavery predates the Christian church by thousands of years.
Maybe its too simple for dj to understand, but any church is an organization. Members of that organization may not support everything the organization supports. Some like Martin Luther stood up, stated his objections and led to Protestantism who for the first time had the opportunity to read the New Testament. Wilberforce and others were a part of that Protestant group and were able to ban slavery throughout the British Empire.
British ships blockaded many African ports until they closed their slave markets.
Slavery still persists in Africa, Europe, and in the rest of the world in spite of regulation banning the practice.
'Liberals' don't seem t have much difficulty with forcing all people to be slaves of the state, keeping them dependent upon the state and dictating what they can do.

May 05, 2013
ou have nothing to worry about - as the law of nature will take care of removing your boogy man. Time will tell - right?


No need to worry if you don't mind people suffering like those in DPRK, Cuba, Venezuela, ... and don't mind the waste and loss of capital infrastructure built to date.

May 05, 2013
Republicans and Libertarians tell me that they owe future generations nothing since they get nothing in return from future generations in return for their consideration.

In other words, since there is nothing in it for them, future generations can go to hell.


Your "In other words" interpretation is faulty. If you understood the libertarian point of view, you'd be one.

What they told you instead, is that there must be an actual experienced cause / effect relationship for the masses to respond to. Those Libertarians are speaking in terms of actual natural mechanisms that play out in actual fact,.not of idealistic and theoretical morality that people "should" obey.

The masses are not going to be motivated to adjust there behavior away from an egoistically based one, on a theory or conjecture wrt future states. The supposed increased temperature has to be THE THING which changes their behavior, as a free natural reaction,... otherwise coercion and force will replace freedom.

May 05, 2013
Survival of the fittest which implies competition, and egoism which implies profiting in seeking to improve ones own condition, and freedom of choice, are natural and necessary survival mechanisms intrinsic to all life on this planet.

These natural mechanisms are, not by coincidence, fundamental to capitalism. In fact, capitalism is a result of them existing as a nature of man. Freedom and capitalism work because they work WITH the intrinsic nature of man, rather than against them. Socialism and communism fails because they have to oppress these natural instincts of man,.. they work against the grain of nature, rather than taking advantage of this existent force.

And BTW, none of this has a rats ass to do with selfishness. The natural state of man is a moral one, while its oppression is counter to morality.

May 05, 2013
Rygg: " Members of that organization may not support everything the organization supports."

How convenient of you to rationalize when it suits your argument. Earlier you quoted Rand - "when you compromise with evil - evil wins" Do you see the contradiction in your position? I thought not - it would require critical thinking. Sufficient to point out that you call evil out when it suits you (evil liberals, evil moslems), but compromise with evil when it suits you.

Just one more example of dj's classist pov.
If an individual is a Christian, then according to atheist dj, that individual supports everything any organized Christian group and done, or not done. Fortunately for Christians, they can refer to the New Testament for reference if they disagree with the Church. This is what Martin Luther did along with translating and publishing a Bible for his fellow Germans to read for themselves. (cont)

May 05, 2013
(cont.)
The USA has a Constituiton and source documents that show what motivated the authors and those who ratified the Constitution. The 'progressive' Woodrow Wilson attacked that Constituion and led the 'progressive' movement to destroy the Constition. 'Progressive', 'liberal', socialists all attack the fundamental concept that individual humans are endowed with an inherent right to life, liberty and property. They oppose this concept because it destroys their promotion of state power to enslave the popultion.

Atheists seem to have a problem in their ranks. Being 'anti' something does not easily promote a 'for' something proposition.
"Many notable atheists believe in some powerfully stupid stuff, thereby eroding the credibility of all atheists ". http://www.salon....salpart/

May 05, 2013
Atheists are not anti-religion per se. I may be foolish for thinking you know better.

I could procure a list of far more than 5 Protestants to embarrass you, but you would endlessly dance around a No True Christian fallacy.

May 05, 2013
Here is an interesting critique of Keynes. Because he was a homosexual, his contemporary critics point out has no persona interest in children or his posterity. So, borrow and spend and live for the day was his essential economic theme.
" John Maynard Keynes would have done a great service if he had begun The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money with the disclosure that he was a Bloomsbury aesthete and a practicing homosexual. He could have explained how he and friends did not believe in self-denial or consider that they had any obligation to posterity. (An historian has pointed out that Keynes's famous remark, "In the long run we are all dead," is easy to make if you have no children and don't want any.)"
http://www.nation...ng-wrong