What does Islam say about the fate of others?

May 18, 2012
"Islam and the Fate of Others," by Mohammad Khalil, assistant professor of religious studies at Michigan State University, is a first-of-its-kind book examining non-Muslim salvation. Credit: Michigan State University

Since Sept. 11, it has become increasingly common to hear about Muslims who condemn all non-Muslims – or "infidels" – to hell, but this has never been a foundation of Islamic thought, argues a Michigan State University professor who recently published a first-of-its-kind book on non-Muslim salvation.

At the same time, some Western writers believe condemnation and dehumanization of non-Muslims make it easier for Muslims to justify acts of terrorism, said Mohammad Khalil, assistant professor of religious studies.

"There is a widespread assumption that we're in the midst of a clash of civilizations involving the Muslim world and the West, and some think this is partly the result of an Islamic belief that only Muslims can ever be saved," Khalil said. "My research is relevant in post-9/11 discourse because it challenges this assumption."

is the second largest religion in the world, with 1.56 billion Muslims.

Khalil's book, "Islam and the Fate of Others: The Salvation Question," explores medieval and modern discussions of the fate of non-Muslims, he said.

In researching for the book, Khalil found four of Islam's most influential scholars believed most of humanity will eventually be saved. He also found that exclusivism – the belief that only Muslims will be saved – was historically unpopular among Muslim theologians.

So what happened?

Khalil points to the widely available works of prominent 20th- and 21st-century thinkers who spoke only of the salvation of Muslims, without clearly qualifying their statements. These thinkers have been a major influence on a variety of adherents, from liberals to extremists like Osama bin Laden, he said.

According to Khalil, while it's easy to remember the images of some Muslims celebrating in the streets on 9/11, what many don't know is that even prominent clerics who said they hate America disapproved of the attacks – and were open to the possibility that God may save both the Muslim and non-Muslim victims.

Khalil hopes his book can be used to educate non-Muslims and alike. But the most important educational experience is getting to know one another, he said.

"I don't think it's a coincidence this book was written in the U.S. by a Muslim who is surrounded by people of other faiths," Khalil said. "The more interconnected we become the more likely we are to recognize our shared values and the less likely we are to think a clash of civilizations is inevitable."

Explore further: Researchers reveal relationships between rare languages in the Colombian Amazon

add to favorites email to friend print save as pdf

Related Stories

Facing the future -- science in the Muslim world

Apr 01, 2010

Scientists in Islamic countries are often thought by those in the West to be languishing behind the rest of the world. Jim Al-Khalili tells Physics World readers what has been impeding scientific progress in the Islamic world ...

Modern Muslims use dreams to make major life decisions

Sep 16, 2010

The traditional practice of using night dreams to make major life decisions is in widespread use among modern Muslims, reveals a new study whose author is speaking at the British Science Festival on Thursday September 16*.

Recommended for you

User comments : 69

Adjust slider to filter visible comments by rank

Display comments: newest first

Deathclock
4.1 / 5 (17) May 18, 2012
As with Christians, most Muslims do not follow the teachings of their own religion. This is not surprising.
tadchem
3.8 / 5 (12) May 18, 2012
Condemnation and dehumanization of "them" makes it easier for (our side) to justify acts against "them," no matter who we or they are.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.5 / 5 (16) May 18, 2012
"There is a widespread assumption that we're in the midst of a clash of civilizations involving the Muslim world and the West
No it is a clash between religion and reason. ALL religions are the SAME THING.
four of Islam's most influential scholars believed most of humanity will eventually be saved
-I think maybe they should reread their book?

"The only true faith in God's sight is Islam."
Quran 3:19; "The Imrans," Dawood, p. 51

"He that chooses a religion over Islam, it will not be accepted from him and in the world to come he will be one of the lost."
Quran 3:85, "The Imrans," Dawood, p. 60

"If you doubt what We have revealed to Our servant, produce one chapter comparable to it. Call upon your idols to assist you, if what you say be true. But if you fail (as you are sure to fail) then guard yourselves against the Fire whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the unbelievers."
Quran 2:23-4, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 3

cont>
GaryB
4.5 / 5 (8) May 18, 2012
Most ordinary Muslims, like most ordinary adherents of other religions, believe that others are damned. (All ordinary religious adherents are correct, at least if we add "to death").

If we take the most enlightened thoughts of the most enlightened thinkers of almost any religion, it would be fine. But let's just note that religious lands, especially where Islam is a majority are either religiously cleansed or in process. Religious lands are, frankly, much more brutal and barbaric to everyone, religious or not. Their scientific and literary productivity is terrible (and the very greatest sin of all). Most of the "glories" such societies point to were at the beginning before religious control was complete. Then creative and inspirational thought is crushed out. It's not a happy history at all.

Finally, its worse when they think others aren't damned. Then they can set off a bomb and happily "let God sort them out". Witness that more Muslims are killed by Muslim terror groups than other
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.8 / 5 (16) May 18, 2012
"God's curse be upon the infidels! Evil is that for which they have bartered away their souls. To deny God's own revelation, grudging that He should reveal His bounty to whom He chooses from among His servants! They have incurred God's most inexorable wrath. An ignominious punishment awaits the unbelievers."
Quran 2:89-2:90, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 13

"Lord...Give us victory over the unbelievers."
Quran 2:286, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 46

"I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers."
Quran 8:12, "The Spoils," Dawood, p. 177

"Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage."
Quran 2:190-2:191, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 28

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."
Quran 9:5; "Repentance," Dawood, p. 18

-etcetc. I see no ambiguity here.
kaasinees
2.6 / 5 (12) May 18, 2012
Ofcourse we are damned.
If religion keeps growing we will either be killed or converted sooner or later.

How to stop it?
nkalanaga
3.7 / 5 (9) May 18, 2012
And how does that differ from Christians? Many Christian denominations teach that not only nonChristians but other types of Christians are doomed.
Vendicar Dickarian
2.1 / 5 (14) May 18, 2012
What does Islam say about the fate of others?


Who cares?
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (11) May 18, 2012
Ofcourse we are damned.
If religion keeps growing we will either be killed or converted sooner or later.

How to stop it?
This is already being Accomplished:

"And to Gabriel said the Lord: Proceed against the bastards and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: SEND THEM ONE AGAINST THE OTHER that they may destroy each other in
10 battle: for length of days shall they not have." -Book of Enoch Book 1 - Watchers
http://www.ancien...hers.htm

-Religions all contain the seeds of their own dissolution. They were made to divide up the people and set them against one another in orderly and Constructive Ways.

But I think it is up to us to denounce them and expose them for what they are, because it is apparently Time to do so.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (11) May 18, 2012
And how does that differ from Christians? Many Christian denominations teach that not only nonChristians but other types of Christians are doomed.
THEY ARE ALL THE SAME THING. All iterations of a common Theme.

"18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Gods one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed." jon3
nkalanaga
3.8 / 5 (9) May 18, 2012
Therefore, Muslims are condemned for not being Christians, Christians are condemned for not being Muslims, or for being the wrong kind of Christian, and everyone else is condemned for being neither.

Maybe we'll find that the Buddhists are right and we all have to keep doing it over until we get it right...
Lurker2358
1.4 / 5 (22) May 18, 2012
No it is a clash between religion and reason. ALL religions are the SAME THING.


Reported.

re. blatant lie, defamation, false accusation, otherwise just plain wrong anyway, etc.

And how does that differ from Christians? Many Christian denominations teach that not only nonChristians but other types of Christians are doomed.


For one thing, Christians are not commanded to go around slaughtering unbelievers. (proving otto's claim that all religions are the same as a lie).
Calenur
4.5 / 5 (16) May 18, 2012
For one thing, Christians are not commanded to go around slaughtering unbelievers. (proving otto's claim that all religions are the same as a lie).


Deuteronomy 17:
17:3 'And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded....Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.'

That took less than 5 seconds to find on the internet. You're just as misguided and uninformed about your own religion as the ones committing the atrocities. Grow up and stop believing in immortal invisible space wizards.
Anorion
4.4 / 5 (14) May 18, 2012
religion is the cancer of humanity.
its like bioinformatic virus , made for human mind .
religion and god are worst and most dangerous things humans ever invented.
michelley
2.5 / 5 (8) May 18, 2012
Unlike Islam, Christians, Buddhists, etc. are not currently calling for the extermination of people from other faiths or with no faith. Live and let live.
flashgordon
2.1 / 5 (7) May 18, 2012
Physorg as even most nanotechnologists today have become apologists. They won't post articles showing for instance 1Corinthians1 saying jews and greeks must be abolished, or Koran passages saying, jews, greeks, and christians should be abolished(when Sep11 happened, I found somewhere a paper in the library . . . about fifty pages . . . showing Koran pages showing Islam intolerance; i only got through like twenty pages before I had enough; i remember a passage saying jews, greeks, and christians must be destroyed).

Religion must be destroyed; they should have articles on Israel Finkelstein's "The Bible UnEarthed", Acharya's "The Christ Conspiracy"(actually, her Christ in Egypt; the Christ Conspiracy is more putting together the findings of others; it's more second hand references; it doesn't mean it is wrong; it's just not primary resources all the time), Robert Eisenman's "James Brother of Jesus", and many others! Earl Doherty's "The Jesus Puzzle." Clearly, Physorg doesn't . . .
flashgordon
1.3 / 5 (10) May 18, 2012
. . . know what it's talking about; shoot, it doesn't want to know; it's an apologist site which is what allowed christianity to spread in the first place.

Or, one could view my gospel of truth(not polished up yet; the big New Testament research going on right now is that Paul in the New Testament is most likelly a bunch of people rolled up - just like Jesus Christ is previous cultures sungods all rolled up into one; one ring to rule them all) at my Jacob Bronowski "Scientific Humanism" blog; first post of the blog.

You'd wonder if Physorg or most scientists have ever heard of the dark ages, Hypatia and the like; Carl Sagan must be turning in his grave!
flashgordon
1 / 5 (5) May 18, 2012
Dueteronomy chapter 4 shows the intolerance from science.

Note, this is written by a Jew to a Jew; hence, we have an intolerant faction trying to get other jews to be intolerant; hence, not all jews were against science! Anti-science bible(which is what it is; see the Genesis story against the tree of knowledge) is not representative of all jews then, or the messianic jews that josephus was against at the turn of the Millenium(Josephus wrote that Emperor Titus was the Christ in his Jewish War book).

We shouldn't support anti-science religion just because of events of the 20th century; not all jews were anti-science; it is one of the biggest tragedies of mankinds history! but, Physorg and many contemporary scientists(including nanotechnologists) are apologists.

Scientists are suppose to be skeptical; not absent minded and humpty dumpty, ding dongs apologists!
flashgordon
1 / 5 (5) May 18, 2012
No it is a clash between religion and reason. ALL religions are the SAME THING.


Reported.

re. blatant lie, defamation, false accusation, otherwise just plain wrong anyway, etc.

And how does that differ from Christians? Many Christian denominations teach that not only nonChristians but other types of Christians are doomed.


For one thing, Christians are not commanded to go around slaughtering unbelievers. (proving otto's claim that all religions are the same as a lie).


- reported.

And, oh yes, my favorite Judeo-Christian intolerant statement1

Judges "1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. "

the intolerant jews were trying to exterminate their fellow canaanites(they were all mixed up with each other from time to time); but, they couldn't, because this group had chariots of iron!
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.8 / 5 (9) May 18, 2012

re. blatant lie, defamation, false accusation, otherwise just plain wrong anyway, etc.
Yah we know QC out of the thousands of iterations in the world, yours is the only GOOD one. Reported for bigotry.
For one thing, Christians are not commanded to go around slaughtering unbelievers. (proving otto's claim that all religions are the same as a lie).
-Well theres got to be SOMETHING in there that causes them to do it so much, from Constantine to lords resistance army. Calenur found one. How about the NT?

"21 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved...34 Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." matt10

-It's not what you SAY that informs us, because you all SAY the same things. No, it's what you all DO that is the problem.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.5 / 5 (8) May 18, 2012
More Xian violence from matt10:

"37 Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it."

-For as we know QC, martyrdom is every bit as violent as killing someone else. Giving oneself up for their god - again, all religions endorse it.

Jebus was the worlds greatest all-time martyr. He showed millions of followers exactly how it should be done. He rode his ass into Jerusalem on the holiest day of the year, walked right up to the priests, and declared that he was not only their king but their GOD. The sentence for being an Immaculate Noodge was of course torture and death.

MILLIONS have followed his cue. By the time of Constantine the only ones that were left were those who believed exactly as they were supposed to.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (9) May 18, 2012
Unlike Islam, Christians, Buddhists, etc. are not currently calling for the extermination of people from other faiths or with no faith. Live and let live.
Currently the lords resistance is doing some fair exterminating in Nigeria. And we have a xian Serb on trial for some healthy exterminating in Bosnia. And Copts are busy getting themselves exterminated in Egypt.

And a nice Buddhist war just wrapped up in sri Lanka. Much exterminating down there. Meanwhile, Buddhist troops on the Thai/Burma border are regularly killing each other, over ownership of a TEMPLE. There used to be lots of buddhists in India. Buddha lived in India. But hindus were obligated to exterminate them.

GET REAL. Read the books. All have provision for the most abject violence against unbelievers, AND against themselves, in the name of their god; for when things get tough. And because of the universal mandate that women do nothing else but make and raise babies, things are GUARANTEED to get tough.
Tewk
1.7 / 5 (18) May 18, 2012
Condemnation and dehumanization of "them" makes it easier for (our side) to justify acts against "them," no matter who we or they are.


I agree...therefore atheist's attacks against Christians should cease immediately.

As with Christians, most Muslims do not follow the teachings of their own religion. This is not surprising.


The subject is Islam. And these apologist remarks just drive me insane with frustration.

religion is the cancer of humanity.


A silly statement.

A statement closer to the truth would be "Without religion, humanity would have gone extinct long ago."

There are some people that study the Bible they're whole live and will admit they've only scratched the surface of its depth. Then on the other hand we have blowhards that know almost nothing about the subject but go ahead anyhow and speak on the matter with authority.
Argiod
2 / 5 (8) May 18, 2012
And how does that differ from Christians? Many Christian denominations teach that not only nonChristians but other types of Christians are doomed.


...and, lest we forget, there were the Crusades, Inquisition, and various witch trials... just to name the obvious bits of Christian history...

"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."
Deathclock
3.4 / 5 (15) May 18, 2012
Tewk, you'll find no shelter here. Most of us regard your holy book (and all the others) as little more than myth and legend.

Religion is indeed a mental illness. It is a weakness, to need a father figure as a grown adult. Drop your security blanket, lift your chin up, and take responsibility for yourself. There is no one to answer your prayers, you should get off your knees and work toward your own goals.
Argiod
1.8 / 5 (8) May 18, 2012
A statement closer to the truth would be "Without religion, humanity would have gone extinct long ago."

Without religion we'd still be living in a veritable paradise.
More evil has been perpetrated in the name of religion than all wars put together. May I give note a few not-so-savory bits of Christian history?
Crusades, Inquisition, Witch Trials...
And, of course; there's the 'perpetual war' between the Israelis and Palestine... a war begun by Moses when he pointed and said, "This is the Promised Land." Of course, there was only one hitch to this; the land 'promised' was already occupied by others who had to be eliminated.
I'm sure one can find similar histories for most, if not all, religions.
Vendicar_Decarian
3.2 / 5 (9) May 18, 2012
Exactly.

"Who cares?" - Vendicar Dickarian

The question isn't relevant to any thinking person.
Tewk
1.3 / 5 (12) May 18, 2012


...and, lest we forget, there were the Crusades, Inquisition, and various witch trials... just to name the obvious bits of Christian history...


Well read on these subjects are we ? Or maybe (this would be my guess) if you had to write a paper on your knowledge of these things it wouldn't cover a postage stamp. I nailed it right ?

But now we can discuss very well documented crimes of atheistic, "enlightened" social organizations. Oh 1 book will do. "The Big Black of Communism" should about handle it.

By the way if you care to educate yourself about these things instead of simply spewing anti-christian bumper stickers...this is an interesting cliff notes on witch burnings. http://en.wikiped...n_period

Well gee...seems witch burning had pagan roots in Europe (then America)..not Christian. Well golly gee whiz.
Lurker2358
1 / 5 (10) May 18, 2012
Note, this is written by a Jew to a Jew; hence, we have an intolerant faction trying to get other jews to be intolerant; hence, not all jews were against science! Anti-science bible(which is what it is; see the Genesis story against the tree of knowledge)


Liar.

The Bible makes no mention of a "Tree of Knowledge"

It was the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil," which is quite different.

In the narrative, it was God's intention to preserve man's innocence, but they disobeyed.

...21 Brother will betray brother to death...


wow you're an idiot.

He was talking about unbelievers betraying believers, even their own family members, and having them executed, which has certainly happened many millions of times throughout history, and is still going on in places like India and China to this day.
Deathclock
3.6 / 5 (14) May 18, 2012
Tewk, you're being stupid.

We've seen these arguments 1000 times. "Atheism" is not an organization, it is certainly not a religion, and no two Atheists necessarily have ANYTHING in common other than a lack of belief in God.

Communism and Atheism have nothing to do with each other. I am an Atheist and I am a staunch supporter of free market capitalism.

Again, "Atheism" is not a group of like minded people who have a lot in common any more than people who don't believe in big foot are a group with a lot in common.

Just knock it off, we've heard all this horseshit before.
Lurker2358
1.3 / 5 (13) May 18, 2012
They won't post articles showing for instance 1Corinthians1 saying jews and greeks must be abolished


For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

===

This is by no means a racist comment, but quite the contrary...

also, proper exegesis of this passage is rather beyond the scope of this thread, but Paul is not "knocking" wisdom or knowledge or science, etc.

He opposed "sciences falsely so-called," in reference to things like astrology or witchcraft, which at one time were considered "sciences" in the ancient world.
AWaB
3.7 / 5 (3) May 19, 2012
Just watch Europe; nothing good will come of the chaos that is beginning. War will follow within the next 10 years. The words of Winston Churchill will once again ring true: "...the New World will rise forth and liberate the Old." This time will be just as ugly as the last. The horrifying might of the U.S. will be levered against the rest of the world. I hope the Muslim world is ready to speak English! ;)
HTK
4 / 5 (4) May 19, 2012
Everyone knows that islam is the essence of pure evil, that is, lies.

A serious parody of the Bible where all names are switched from Jew favouring stories to Arab favouring stories. FACT.

And this came after Jews rejected Mohamad, the paedophilic, hateful, murder loving Arab and his vengence came to fruition.
ShotmanMaslo
3.7 / 5 (9) May 19, 2012
For me, the important question is, what do MUSLIMS think about the fate of others? Here are some of their wicked thoughts:

Stoning people who commit adultery: Egypt 82 % agree, Pakistan 82 % agree, Jordan 70 % agree, Nigeria 56 % agree, Indonesia 42 % agree

Death penalty for apostates: Egypt 84 %, Jordan 86 %, Pakistan 76 %, Nigeria 51 %, Indonesia 30 %, BRITAIN 31 % (!)

That guy can fool those who are uninformed, but he is not going to fool those who actually research the issue. Islam is largely a death cult, and the notion of "small extremist minority" is a lie.

http://www.pewglo...zbollah/
GaryBLiar
2.3 / 5 (6) May 19, 2012
"Most ordinary Muslims, like most ordinary adherents of other religions, believe that others are damned."

You just made that up from scratch.
Dogjaw
2 / 5 (4) May 19, 2012
Hey guys can anyone get me an accurate historical bodycount of people murdered for not believing in the abrahamic god vs. people murdered for believing in any god at all? Thanks in advance
epsi00
1.4 / 5 (5) May 19, 2012
It's interesting to set up a simple table to compare crimes of muslim extremists versus crimes of wars against muslims to see who committed most of the crimes. Then we can start a debate on extremism, muslim or otherwise. ( Remember Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan drone killings, Libya, Syria ( ongoing )...)
fully attached
4 / 5 (2) May 19, 2012
i am sure a scientific mind free of religion will just say the easiest route would be to exterminate all religion with extreme prejudice but then there would be much detraction and distraction afterwards. that is just for the time being that religion is the greater percentage of the population. when reason overtakes religion, this will likely coincide with resource and population distress of a higher magnitude, there will be a quickening with eradication of the mind poisoning/future stealing religions.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) May 19, 2012
There are some people that study the Bible they're whole live and will admit they've only scratched the surface of its depth.
Translation: since you are an unbeliever you are incapable of understanding our book.

Since you are a believer you are going to read whatever is necessary into your book to make it say what you want it to. Even very educated and intelligent people do this. They're called apologists. Also liars.
He was talking about unbelievers betraying believers, even their own family members, and having them executed
Well 'he' doesn't make the distinction does he? And we can see that throughout history it has been the good and righteous xians who seem more than eager to kill friends and family who do not believe. Like during the 30 Years War for instance.
Cont>
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) May 19, 2012
But you're right QC Jesus is describing the depths to which martyrdom can sink, which we must agree is a particularly disgusting form of violence.

But that's the Brilliance of the Xian bible. They did not discard the OT although many of you try. The OT is very useful for those occasions when an enemy has to be conquered or annihilated. When threatened, xians will eagerly turn to the exploits of Joshua or gideon, or they will read their psalms, and find explicit instructions on how to protect their faith.

And when peace again reigns and they can afford to be magnanimous they will disavow the Law and say the lovegod superseded it. Brilliant and obviously the main Reason for the Configuration.

The OT is for conquest and ruination. The NT is for revolution and conciliation. Together they form the Compleat Handbook for the Establishment of an Empire. And you believers think it was all about you. You're so easy.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) May 19, 2012
Oh by the way in the 'not peace but a sword' passage, it IS Jesus bringing a sword and not a shield isn't it? This refutes your argument. Onward Xian soldiers. Remember Malta.
ab3a
1.3 / 5 (3) May 19, 2012
I will not judge a person based upon what their religion says. I judge them on their speech and their actions.

This issue is academically interesting, but of little practical use to me.
nauticus66
1.5 / 5 (2) May 19, 2012
So what happens when a believer in particles as the building blocks of matter meets one who says it's a spherical standing wave? Jihad? or laughter?
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (3) May 19, 2012
So what happens when a believer in particles as the building blocks of matter meets one who says it's a spherical standing wave? Jihad? or laughter?
Slaughter is laughter with an S.

Curious.
Tewk
1 / 5 (7) May 19, 2012
There are some people that study the Bible they're whole live and will admit they've only scratched the surface of its depth.

Translation: since you are an unbeliever you are incapable of understanding our book.

That's correct, unbelievers can't understand the Bible. Believers are chosen. HE chooses whoever HE wants to. I have no idea why.
At that point the initiate has things revealed to them at a time and depth also at HIS choosing.

Yes yes this is all foolishness to you and it even states in the Book that it would be.
It's not my job to convince you of anything....but I do believe we can expose nonbelievers to ideas..to plant seeds.

How far an individual has freedom of choice, I can't say. But I can say this about Christianity, these crimes so eagerly blame on Christianity....nowhere's in the New Testament can you find the cause.
All those acts are distortion. As with ANY philosophy, politics, etc...the unscrupulous will distort same for personal gain.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3.2 / 5 (9) May 19, 2012
That's correct, unbelievers can't understand the Bible. Believers are chosen. HE chooses whoever HE wants to. I have no idea why.
At that point the initiate has things revealed to them at a time and depth also at HIS choosing.
You are SO full of crap.
It's not my job to convince you of anything....but I do believe we can expose nonbelievers to ideas..to plant seeds.
So leave - you are not even a useful example of religionist self-deception.
Tewk
1 / 5 (8) May 19, 2012
So leave - you are not even a useful example of religionist self-deception.


"Useful" ? Useful to who ?

1 Samuel 3:7 KJV
Now Samuel did not yet know the LORD, neither was the word of the LORD yet revealed unto him.

Matthew 11:25 KJV
At that time Jesus answered and said , I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Revelation 17:14 KJV
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Deathclock
3.4 / 5 (5) May 19, 2012
No one wants to hear it, you are not welcome here. This is a website devoted to science and technology, I don't know why you think quoting bible verses in the comments section is appropriate. I don't go into your church and balance reduction-oxidation reactions in front of everyone...
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.8 / 5 (5) May 19, 2012
"And when Allah saith : O Jesus , son of mary! Didst thou say unto mankind : Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith : Be glorified It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right . If I used to say it , then Thou knewest it . Thou knowest what is in my mind , and I know not what is in Thy mind . Lo! Thou , only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden." [Surah 5:116]
Tewk
1 / 5 (7) May 20, 2012
No one wants to hear it, you are not welcome here. This is a website devoted to science and technology, I don't know why you think quoting bible verses in the comments section is appropriate. I don't go into your church and balance reduction-oxidation reactions in front of everyone...


For crying out loud you baboon like creature...this article is about Islam ! Islam is a religion, not a science.

Also only an atheist would have the ego to claim to speak for everyone. You sir are a non-entity...all atheist are nonentities. You opinions, your scratches that attempt to communicate through, are irrelevant. If you think for one nanosecond I give a **** if you "want me here", well I'm just exasperated by it...I'm stunned at your laughable self importance...your posture of authority. It is this very same thing that leads the puny minded to claim state there is "No G*d!". It the amoebae that roars...the speck upon a speck upon a speck that pips "I'M IN CHARGE HERE!" You are no scienti
Tewk
1 / 5 (5) May 20, 2012
....scientist and you never will be. Science is far far more than that ability to use it's tools. At most minds such as yours will rise no higher than technician. A brick layer in the field. Fine, the world needs brick layers but know your limitations. Accept it. And above all get out of the way of your betters.
Negative
5 / 5 (3) May 21, 2012
oh ghost, it is a honor to proclaim myself "baboon like creature" non-entity. this frightening proof of fanaticism - on forums dedicated to science, of all matter! - is really a disappointing attribute of the human race. I would have called for the simple solution of ignoring them - they have nothing to say, there is no information in that continuous noise emitted by religious people, there is no point in arguing as any possible common ground seems to be rejected - but it's not that easy...

[ particularly amusing is the pretense to know what 'god' wants. ]

back to the article, I wonder if there'll be a fathwa on this Khalil author...
Birger
3 / 5 (1) May 21, 2012
Fortunately the vast majority of people -regardless of religion- are more interested in daily survival than in killing unbelievers.
Then we have a small but dangerous minority that will use any excuse -religion, tribal connections or whatever- to extend their own power.
Tewk
1 / 5 (7) May 21, 2012

Then we have a small but dangerous minority that will use any excuse -religion, tribal connections or whatever- to extend their own power.


"Small..minority (trying) to extend their own power."

The strange thing about atheist/Darwinist is that they don't actually live as Darwinism would seem to require.

"Suppose, finally, we succeeded in explaining our entire instinctive life as the development and ramification of one basic form of the will--namely, of the will to power, as my proposition has it... then one would have gained the right to determine all efficient force univocally as--will to power. The world viewed from inside... it would be "will to power" and nothing else."
Fred Nietzsche

One can even see your baboon politics on display here..."Yeah Tewk, nobody wants you here with your religious barbarism ! We expunge you from our our little grunting baboon science club. !"

Atheists are not religious (well they actually are but I won't get into it), and most....
Tewk
1 / 5 (7) May 21, 2012
...aren't Darwinist regardless of claim. Atheist/Liberalism is a social construct, a meme. And it is an insane meme. It has no basis in reality and is therefore insane. And those infected are on the path to extinction. And that's just way it has to be and the sooner the better, so that the damage is limited as much as possible.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (8) May 21, 2012
@Pewk
...aren't Darwinist regardless of claim. Atheist/Liberalism is a social construct, a meme.
So is your god.
And it is an insane meme.
...and it goes like this: 'If you will only sacrifice your comfort, your security, your family, everything you own, up to and including your life, you can live forever!'

-I kid you not! Could I make something this absurd up? No!!

"22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.[...] 29 Truly I tell you, Jesus said to them, no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life." luk18
Tewk
1 / 5 (8) May 22, 2012
...and it goes like this: 'If you will only sacrifice your comfort, your security, your family, everything you own, up to and including your life, you can live forever!'


This has been the lot of the soldier since they existed (except for the live forever part).

Somehow I doubt if any of you heroes of atheism have been a soldier.
Service and sacrifice in general are a mystery to atheist.
In fact observation has informed me that self indulgence/obsession is largely the cause of atheism. That and the desire to have sex with children and animals.

In fact to be the member of a tribe for the vast majority of humans existence carried the responsibility of such sacrifice. We live now in a spoiled age indeed. And humans don't wear this easy life well. There hasn't EVER been a humanity that has been in touch with nature/reality that has been atheist.

You soft, well fed people (am I wrong?) only you have had the luxury of it.

Anorion
4 / 5 (8) May 22, 2012
In fact observation has informed me that self indulgence/obsession is largely the cause of atheism. That and the desire to have sex with children and animals.
tewk

latest news, its mostly christian priests who rape childrens, and prophet of muslims married a 7 year old. and most child molesters expect god to forgive them cause they confess or they think its not their fault since god made them like that.

Somehow I doubt if any of you heroes of atheism have been a soldier.
tewk

so your saying that if all world were atheist there wouldn't be soldiers ? and without soldiers there is no wars

Service and sacrifice in general are a mystery to atheist.

tewk

most prosperous countrys with best living standards and lowest crime and % of poor, are mostly atheist, look at scandinavia, i could redirect you to another phys org article but i doubt you would read it.

Tewk
1 / 5 (7) May 22, 2012


latest news, its mostly christian priests who rape childrens, and prophet of muslims married a 7 year old. and most child molesters expect god to forgive them cause they confess or they think its not their fault since god made them like that.


It's impossible that a Christian rape a child. It's irrelevant what they call themselves, what "credentials" they may display, the act of rape and being a Christian are absolutely incompatible.

Also would you care to prove that it is "mostly christian priests that rape children" ? You can't. It's simply a lie.

Service and sacrifice in general are a mystery to atheist.

tewk

most prosperous countrys with best living standards and lowest crime and % of poor, are mostly atheist, look at scandinavia, i could redirect you to another phys org article but i doubt you would read it.


How can that possibly be due to atheism ?
Rather it's due to the ethnicity and the level of homogeneity of ethnicity for that country.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) May 22, 2012
latest news, its mostly christian priests who rape childrens, and prophet of muslims married a 7 year old. and most child molesters expect god to forgive them cause they confess or they think its not their fault since god made them like that.
Let's not forget Warren jeffs. And the virgin Mary who was only 13 when visitated by the holy vaporgod.
what "credentials" they may display, the act of rape and being a Christian are absolutely incompatible.
Again we find another Xian who has never read his book. Turn to the OT and read about what god tells the Israelite 'soldiers' to do to all but the young virgins of a particular town. And also where they hide in an orchard waiting to steal the women from a tribe of fellow Jews. This is honorable for soldiers like Hebrews or Serbs when god says it's ok.

I would look it up for you but I see you need the practice. Actually I would just google 'bible' and 'rape' to get a whole list.
Tewk
1 / 5 (4) May 22, 2012
Let's not forget Warren jeffs. And the virgin Mary who was only 13 when visitated


Marriage at that age wasn't illegal then, now it is.

But to hold that human laws extend to G*d is..beyond nonsensical.

Again we find another Xian who has never read his book. Turn to the OT and....

Ok, can you see the problem here ? Didn't I say "Christians" ?

Geez...lightweights...
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) May 22, 2012
But to hold that human laws extend to G*d is..beyond nonsensical.
Yah because theirs nothing there... And so we are left to judge raping priests and Serb soldiers by human terms. And we need to judge those who use your holy books to justify their conduct equally, as those books were ALL written by men, to condone and promote such beastly behavior.
Ok, can you see the problem here ? Didn't I say "Christians" ?
So you're one of those xians who thinks he can ignore certain parts of his book? The ones he finds personally objectionable? What did god say about arrogance? You have already admitted you redefine parts to suit your preconceptions, instead of reading the book for what it SAYS.

How many others choose to use those very nasty parts to justify their egregious behavior? Or even to interpret what you think are the good parts, to condone bigotry and violence and hatred? It's not hard at all. 'All things are possible with god.' And arrogant religionists.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) May 22, 2012
For instance YOU think John 3:16 can stand all by itself. But it is meaningless without the passage which follows, which condemns unbelievers as EVIL. And since god cannot be relied upon to deal with evildoers, many good xians have taken it upon themselves to be the instruments of gods wrath. BECAUSE of passages such as this.

Jesus is not Jehovah. He and his minions only ever IMPLY violence (except when they implore you to lay down your lives for no good reason) (or when Jesus kills that fig tree for no good reason)
Tewk
1 / 5 (5) May 22, 2012
Without G*d there isn't ANYTHING of meaning. It's all the Abyss . Really I can't understand your goal here. It would seem to are attempting to remove meaning from the live of humanity. A "crutch" you call it. Perhaps that is somewhat true. But if you are relying on the power of the human intellect to somehow justify your existence, or give value to your life, you're deluding yourself. Humanities science is NOTHING. Again I point out at most it is merely descriptive, and a weak description at that. For crying out loud you do nothing but describe the shadow of a infinite monster ! You deny a moral underpinning to our universe...then there is no meaning at all. Your charges of rape this, murder that..etc etc....in your world all these thing are meaningless. You can not claim "morals" without G*d. A David Niven story has a future A.I. given the task of discovering the "meaning of it all". After weeks of thinking, it commits suicide. Honestly why an atheists even bothers to live is mystery
Negative
5 / 5 (3) May 23, 2012
"Without G*d there isn't ANYTHING of meaning. It's all the Abyss." - oh the horror.
ShotmanMaslo
4.2 / 5 (5) May 23, 2012
You can not claim "morals" without G*d.


The questions of morality are not any closer to being answered if we assume God. Any moral relativism / absolutism arguments apply to God, too.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (8) May 23, 2012
Without G*d there isn't ANYTHING of meaning. It's all the Abyss . Really I can't understand your goal here. It would seem to are attempting to remove meaning from the live of humanity.
Religion steals meaning from lives and replaces it with superstition. Your religion, whatever it may be, is no different than any other in this respect.
You deny a moral underpinning to our universe...then there is no meaning at all. Your charges of rape this, murder that
We have already established that your god is grossly immoral. Per your book.
in your world all these thing are meaningless. You can not claim "morals" without G*d.
Why not? Who sold you the lie that people can't be moral without god? According to your book and the actions of typical religionists, people cannot be moral WITH the god myth.

Your morality is chiefly centered around increasing the flock at the expense of all others by whatever means possible. This is horribly immoral. Peace on earth when god is GONE.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) May 23, 2012
A David Niven story has a future A.I. given the task of discovering the "meaning of it all". After weeks of thinking, it commits suicide.
You mean Larry Niven? Larry Niven is a scientist and an antireligionist. You should reconsider the story with these things in mind rather than reading your religion into it.
Honestly why an atheists even bothers to live is mystery
You've been living with religion for a long time haven't you? You need to weigh all the BAD things religion causes in the world against the GOOD feelings it gives you. Is feeling good really important enough to justify the misery of so many others? Is this morally justified?
Jimee
5 / 5 (1) May 25, 2012
The "Christian" religion is at least one of the top two hateful and condemning organizations in the world today (and yesterday), if not the acme of hate, since they have been around lots longer than the Muslims.

More news stories

Researchers see hospitalization records as additional tool

Comparing hospitalization records with data reported to local boards of health presents a more accurate way to monitor how well communities track disease outbreaks, according to a paper published April 16 in the journal PLOS ON ...

Ebola virus in Africa outbreak is a new strain

Scientists say that the Ebola (ee-BOH'-lah) virus that has killed scores of people this year in Guinea (GIH'-nee) is a new strain. That means it did not spread there from outbreaks in some other African nations.