Hints fade of elusive physics 'God particle'
August 22, 2011 by Kerry Sheridan
A European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) scientist checks a monitor at the Alice experiment control room in 2010 near Geneva during an experiment in the world's most powerful atom smasher, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). International scientists searching to solve the greatest riddle in physics said signs are fading of the elusive Higgs-Boson particle, believed to give objects mass.
International scientists searching to solve the greatest riddle in all of physics said Monday that signs are fading of the elusive Higgs-Boson particle, which is believed to give objects mass.
Just last month, physicists announced at a European conference that a big atom-smasher experiment had shown tantalizing hints of the Higgs-Boson, as the search to identify the particle enters the final stretch with results expected late next year.
Sometimes described as the "God particle" because it is such a mystery yet such a potent force of nature, the Higgs-Boson -- if it exists -- represents the final piece of the Standard Model of physics.
"At this moment we don't see any evidence for the Higgs in the lower mass region where it is likely to be," said physicist Howard Gordon, deputy US ATLAS operations program manager.
ATLAS is the biggest particle collider lab at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN)'s Large Hadron Collider (LHC).
"I think it is true that the hints that we saw in July are not as significant -- they weren't very significant in July -- but they have gotten less significant now," Gordon told AFP.
However, physicists are not ready to rule out the possibility that it exists, and atom-smasher experiments must still sift through an immense amount of data at the low-end of the spectrum, he said.
"Basically the data has increased by about a factor of two since the report from the European Physical Society meeting in July because the Large Hadron Collider is producing lots of data," Gordon said.
"I think it has always been a possibility that the Higgs would not be there but I don't think we are ready to say that at this moment."
A statement summarizing the latest data, released at a conference in Mumbai, India, said the LHC's "ATLAS and CMS experiments excluded with 95 percent certainty the existence of a Higgs over most of the mass region from 145 to 466 GeV."
CERN research director Sergio Bertolucci whether the particle exists or not, scientists expect to know more by next year.
"Discoveries are almost assured within the next 12 months. If the Higgs exists, the LHC experiments will soon find it. If it does not, its absence will point the way to new physics," said Bertolucci.
The LHC, located near Geneva, Switzerland, is designed to accelerate protons to nearly the speed of light and then smash them together in house-sized labs where detectors record the seething sub-atomic debris.
The smashups briefly stoke temperatures 100,000 times hotter than the Sun, fleetingly replicating conditions which prevailed split-seconds after the "Big Bang" that created the universe 13.7 billion years ago.
In addition to ATLAS, CERN's CMS experiment, short for Compact Muon Solenoid, is a general-purpose detector that is also searching for the Higgs boson, extra dimensions, and the essence of dark matter.
"Whatever the final verdict on Higgs, we're now living in very exciting times for all involved in the quest for new physics," said CMS spokesman Guido Tonelli.
(c) 2011 AFP
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Aug 22, 2011
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Aug 22, 2011
Rank: 4.6 / 5 (31)
Aug 22, 2011
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (13)
Aug 22, 2011
Rank: 3.9 / 5 (7)
Anyways,
It would be amazing if all that string theory and supersymmetry theory(not to mention the higgs theory) gets cut down. Sounds like the slac massacre; but, then again, one theoretical work did make the cut; the work of Abdus Salem, Steven Weinberg, and Sheldon Glashow(not to mention Yang and Mills).
Aug 22, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (4)
http://www.guardi...may/11/1
Aug 22, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (3)
Aug 22, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
Sorry, quick question... I was under the impression that temperature can only be determined in a system that is close to equilibrium, where the states are well defined. These high energy interactions seem to be far from any equilibrium, so how are they defining temp?
To put it differently, temperature is defined as a function of the entropy of a system, and entropy is determined by how the available states are being filled. If the states are poorly defined due to a collision event, then how is the temperature determined? Does temp even have any meaning in such a situation?
Aug 22, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (15)
Aug 22, 2011
Rank: 4.1 / 5 (9)
So you're suggesting we shouldn't look?
The only argument you could possibly have against the LHC is that "the money could be better spent elsewhere". Which I hate as a statement, because the issue of poverty isn't solvable by throwing more money at it, it's solvable by forcing economists to learn physics and maths.
Aug 22, 2011
Rank: 4 / 5 (5)
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 2.1 / 5 (10)
Of course being actual scientists, the physicists will create a new theory and model which will be better than the old one rather than try to hide evidence of the failure of the model.
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 2.5 / 5 (4)
Keep the faith !
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
"Wanted by physicists all over the world. 'Higgsy', is thought to be still at large, and hiding somewhere around 123Gev."
"We don't want to cause unecessary panic, but the public should know that Higgsy could be everywhere, and you should not let your guard down."
Ah fun.
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 3.3 / 5 (3)
Alternatively: "Just because something has highly elastic properties, it doesn't automatically mean that it's a rubber band."
Having said that, I'm not sure exactly WHAT Higgsy is :) , but have an open mind. I'm just going to wait and see.
SOMETHING is at the source of mass.
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (2)
Personally I like a multiverse interpretation, purely in the hopes of a universe where firefly wasn't cancelled... but that's just me.
Also in regards to you're mentioning inferring as well, again, full agreement, but until one is an expert in QCD, I don't think we can really comment. Reality is wonderfully weird.
Only just beginning study of QCD btw, unbelievably fun stuff, but yeah, reality wiggles a LOT, and it will be a few hundreds of years before we get this licked to the point that it makes any sense at all.
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (1)
I would like to see "the neoclassical atom" being scrutinized... (http://classicala...pot.com)
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (6)
Do we need a big revolution if the Higgs doesn't turn up? Maybe not. The standard model is doing pretty good in all other aspects so we shouldn't hastily abandon all it tells us.
It may be just like with Newtonian gravity and Einsteinian spacetime: The former (while wrong) is a good approximation of the latter for non-extreme cases. The standard model may simply be a good approximation for an underlying principle.
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 4.7 / 5 (29)
PhysOrg should really get rid of the ratings already.
Aug 23, 2011
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Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 2.3 / 5 (6)
Higgs doesn't exist.
Antonio Saraiva
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
What's worse, with increasing distance from human observer size the things become fuzzy like the landscape under the fog. It applies both to the cosmological scale, both the quantum scale. This noise gives the Higgs boson the ambivalent character of fermions, too.
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (4)
Well known "hiearchy problem" implies, that quantum corrections can make the mass of the Higgs particle arbitrarily large, since virtual particles with arbitrarily large energies are allowed in quantum mechanics. Because Standard Model cannot predict Higgs boson mass, it cannot use it in any equation, which actually means, it doesn't require it for anything from perspective of mainstream physics, which does care just only about numbers of its model, not about their philosophy at background.
Even if we would find some Higgs for most massive particles observable, the indicia of fourth generation of quark and neutrinos would force us to assign new generations of Higgs boson for them too.
Aug 23, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (4)
I'm sorry but this is a meme I see all the time and it's pretty ridiculous really. This stems from the capitalist ideal that you only do what you're paid to do, and thats it. It's been shown that this isn't the case, and this is in fact only true in truly menial jobs.
We're not talking about a "league of scientists" that only want to see scientific advances in the way they want them to happen. I think you'd struggle to find any scientist that isn't excited about the prospect of cold fusion, and also dissapointed that it hasn't worked out for us the way we'd hoped.
Aug 23, 2011
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Only just started studying QCD myself... and from all I can currently understand, I completely agree. However people who have been working on this for a while say Higgsy is hiding around somewhere. They might still find him.
Aug 24, 2011
Rank: 4.7 / 5 (27)
While I agree with the point of your post,.. in this sentence, you make no sense at all.
Aug 24, 2011
Rank: 1 / 5 (3)
There ain't such thing as a Higgs Boson.
I think that this farce is described in the bible: Daniel 2:31
Aug 24, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Sorry, it gets tricky to fit everything into the space provided by physorg, and that scentence did indeed not make much sense. I'm basically referencing the idea of correct pay for ones job, and that higher paid people are actually "working" harder, something that was proven wrong by a study commissioned by the Federal Reserve in America. I can't remember the exact details, but basically more pay only makes you work harder in menial jobs, whereas any job that requires thinking results in no performance increase for higher pay...
Aug 24, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Ok, I'll bite, how is this:
"Your Majesty looked, and there before you stood a large statuean enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance."
in any way relevant? I mean, ignoring the fact that your referencing a fairy tale in relation to advanced particle physics, there is just no way you could interpret the above as being related at all.
Aug 25, 2011
Rank: 5 / 5 (1)
Of course you must continue reading.
its head is of good gold, its breasts and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of brass; its legs of iron, its feet, part of them of iron, and part of them of clay.
The statue is the particle physics. Now everything stands on this Higgs Boson. If it does not exist the whole statue will drop, it doesn't matter that everything above it looks so good and solid and promising. If the base sucks, we are in trouble.
For now all the particle theory is like religion.
Until we see the Boson of course.
Aug 25, 2011
Rank: not rated yet
So I guess your on the side of God being a space alien and "heaven" is in fact his space ship?
I'd say it's unlikely, but it's significantly more likely than the normal Christian view of God, I'll give you that.