Milky Way's black hole just flared, growing 75 times as bright for a few hours

**Milky Way’s black hole just flared, growing 75 times as bright for a few hours
Four images from the paper. Over about a 2 hour period, Sgr A* flared to 75 times normal, and twice as bright as any other observed peak. At first, astronomers thought they were looking at the S star SO-2. Credit: Do et al; 2019.

Even though the black hole at the center of the Milky Way is a monster, it's still rather quiet. Called Sagittarius A*, it's about 4.6 million times more massive than the sun. Usually, it's a brooding behemoth. But scientists observing Sgr. A* with the Keck Telescope just observed its brightness blooming to over 75 times normal for a few hours.

The flaring is not visible in optical light. It's all happening in the near-infrared, the portion of the infrared spectrum closest to optical light. Astronomers have been watching Sgr. A* for 20 years, and though the black hole does have some variability in its output, this flaring event is like nothing astronomers have observed before. This peak was over twice as bright as the previous peak flux level.

These results are being reported in the Astrophysical Journal Letters in a paper titled "Unprecedented variability of Sgr A* in NIR," and is available at the prepress site arXiv.org. The lead author is Tuan Do, an astronomer at UCLA.

The team saw Sgr. A* flaring at 75 times normal for a two-hour period on May 13th. At first, Tuan Do thought that they were seeing a star called SO-2 rather than Sgr. A*. SO-2 is one of a group of called S-stars that orbits the black hole closely. Astronomers have been keeping an eye on it as it orbits the black hole.

In an interview with ScienceAlert, Do said, "The black hole was so bright I at first mistook it for the star S0-2, because I had never seen Sgr A* that bright. Over the next few frames, though, it was clear the source was variable and had to be the black hole. I knew almost right away there was probably something interesting going on with the black hole."

**Milky Way’s black hole just flared, growing 75 times as bright for a few hours
This is our best-yet image of an actual black hole. It’s the super-massive black hole at the center of galaxy M87, and it was captured by the Event Horizon Telescope (EHT). The black hole itself can’t actually be seen so this image is actually of its event horizon. The EHT’s next target is Sgr. A*. Credit: Event Horizon Telescope Collaboration

The question is, what made Sgr. A* flare like this? At this point, astronomers aren't certain what caused the flaring. Sgr. A* has exhibited flaring before, just not as brightly. So flaring itself isn't unprecedented.

It's likely that something disrupted the black hole's usually quiet neighborhood, and there are at least a couple of possibilities. The first is not actually a disruption, but an inaccuracy in the statistical models used to understand the black hole. If that's the case, then the model needs to be updated to include these variations as "normal" for Sgr. A*.

**Milky Way’s black hole just flared, growing 75 times as bright for a few hours
The group of stars that orbit close to Sgr. A* are called S stars. SO-2 made it’s closest approach about a year before the flaring observed in May 2019. Credit: Cmglee – Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0

The second possibility is where things get interesting: Something has changed in the black hole's neighborhood.

The previously mentioned star SO-2 is a prime candidate. It's one of two stars that approach very closely to Sgr. A* in an elliptical orbit. Every 16 years, it's at its closest. In the middle of 2018 was its last closest approach, when it was only 17 light-hours away from the black hole.

It's possible that SO-2's close approach disrupted the way that material flows into Sgr. A*. That would generate the kind of variability and bright flaring that astronomers saw in May, about one year after the star's close approach.

The European Southern Observatory made this simulation of G2 being ripped apart by Sgr. A*. Credit: ESO

But astronomers aren't certain. SO-2 is not a very large star, and it seems unlikely that it could cause this type of disruption. Not only that, but it's the largest of the S stars that get close to Sgr. A*, so it's unlikely that one of the other stars could be the cause, either.

Another possibility is a . Back in 2002, astronomers saw what they thought might be a hydrogen gas cloud approaching the center of Sgr. A*. By 2012, astronomers were more certain that it was a cloud, and it was named G2. They measured the temperature of the cloud at 10,000 degrees Kelvin, and were able to measure its trajectory: In 2013, it would travel closely enough to the black hole that the tidal forces would tear it apart.

Initially, astronomers thought that gas from G2 might be drawn into Sgr. A*'s accretion disk, and that it would flare brightly as it was heated. But that never happened. But it's still possible that its passage close to the black hole set off a chain of events that caused or contributed to the May 2019 flaring.

**Milky Way’s black hole just flared, growing 75 times as bright for a few hours
A computer-simulated image of the hydrogen gas cloud G2 encountering Sgr. A* and being stretched out. The encounter could have disrupted the usually sedate in-flow of material into the black hole and caused the variability and flaring observed in May, 2019. Credit: M. Schartmann and L. Calcada/ European Southern Observatory and Max-Planck-Institut fur Extraterrestrische Physik

In the final analysis (if there ever is one in science), this flaring may just be the natural result of a variable flow of material into Sgr. A*, which is expected to be lumpy. If that's the case, then we're back to updating the used to explain the black hole's variability.

The only way to know is to gather more data, not only with the Keck, while the galactic center is still visible at night, but with other telescopes. During the last few months, the has been visible, and 'scopes like the Spitzer, Chandra, Swift, and ALMA have been watching. These observations across multiple wavelengths should help clarify the situation when they're made available.


Explore further

Image: Black hole bounty captured in the center of the Milky Way

More information: Unprecedented variability of Sgr A* in NIR, arXiv:1908.01777 [astro-ph.GA] arxiv.org/abs/1908.01777
Journal information: Astrophysical Journal Letters

Citation: Milky Way's black hole just flared, growing 75 times as bright for a few hours (2019, August 14) retrieved 16 September 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-08-milky-black-hole-flared-bright.html
This document is subject to copyright. Apart from any fair dealing for the purpose of private study or research, no part may be reproduced without the written permission. The content is provided for information purposes only.
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Aug 14, 2019
whoa! i was half-heartedly joking when i wrote that an Accretion Disk was like a demolition derby.
fueled by nitrous oxide

but some swarm of mass must be inbound
trying to smash it's way through the carnival mob to join the party ongoing at the boundary of the Event Horizon

& only observed in the infra-red, huh?
guess we can't blame this one on drunken hooligan godlings flinging their thundermugs around with wild abandonment

just plain old, boring Sir Isaac & Lady Émilie

Aug 14, 2019
Plasmoids are variable like this, unlike the BH pseudoscience there is no reason to go back to the drawing board to "update the statistical model used to explain the black hole's variability."

Aug 14, 2019
When we get EHT images of sag A* with, and without, these flare events there will be a lot less speculation and a lot more information. Especially as its so much closer than M87.

Aug 14, 2019

& only observed in the infra-red, huh?

Remember oh sage, A* and its environs are obscured by dust.

Aug 14, 2019
Plasmoids are variable like this, unlike the BH pseudoscience there is no reason to go back to the drawing board to "update the statistical model used to explain the black hole's variability."


Lol. there is no model of black holes being plasmoid woo. Just a bunch of nutters who don't like Relativity, for some reason. Lack of education is my guess. We are still waiting for the calculations of the orbits of the stars around plasmoid woo. And how it creates the predicted gravitational redshift. More science, less making sh!t up, please.

Aug 14, 2019
When we get EHT images of sag A* with, and without, these flare events there will be a lot less speculation and a lot more information. Especially as its so much closer than M87.


I doubt that images of the EH will tell us much about these brightenings. They are taken at radio wavelengths. These were seen in NIR.

Aug 14, 2019
Galactic Centre Blackholes are Glowing Spherical Dust Balls

First things first
Before we get overly excited
This image
https://3c1703fe8...sbla.jpg
Has absolutely nothing what's so ever to do with Sagittarius*A
And
Concerning this hole in this doughnut
There is this theory
Concerning blackholes
That
When at their galactic centres
Galactic centres are theorised to be enshrouded with thick dust
Consequently
These theorised centralised blackholes are fully immersed in this dust
For gravity emerges equidistantly over all this spherical blackholes surface area
So
It is not possible to see a hole in this orange dusty doughnut
For this whole blackhole is enshrouded in glowing dust
Glowing in this light of gamma-radiation

p.s. this theory of dust enshrouded galactic centralised blackholes, is vigorously applied to Sagittarius*A

Aug 14, 2019
^^^^Go take your meds, looney tunes.

Aug 14, 2019
Sagittarius*A – Its Quiescent Flares

Back in 2002
Astronomers saw a gas cloud
What they thought
Might be a hydrogen gas cloud
Approaching the centre of Sagittarius*A
By 2012
It was named G2
Where its temperature of this cloud was measured at 10,000°K
In 2013
It travelled closely enough to the Sagittarius*A
That Sagittarius*A's tidal forces would tear it apart.
But this never happened
For our Quiescent Blackhole
Is
Always the Master of this Anticlimax

Aug 14, 2019
Castrogiovanni
^^^^Go take your meds, looney tunes.

This theory of dust enshrouded galactic centralised blackholes
Is vigorously applied to Sagittarius*A
By your own good self, Castrogiovanni
As
An explanation as to why
Sagittarius*A cannot have an Orange Dusty Doughnut all of its own
Because it is shrouded in dust

p.s. foreth Castrogiovanni; this is why I do not subscribe to theories, as they come back and bite you when your theories fall flat

Aug 14, 2019
Castrogiovanni
^^^^Go take your meds, looney tunes.

This theory of dust enshrouded galactic centralised blackholes
Is vigorously applied to Sagittarius*A
By your own good self, Castrogiovanni
As
An explanation as to why
Sagittarius*A cannot have an Orange Dusty Doughnut all of its own
Because it is shrouded in dust

p.s. foreth Castrogiovanni; this is why I do not subscribe to theories, as they come back and bite you when your theories fall flat


Stop talking crap, you moron. The M87 image is in radio, you idiot. Just give up, you clueless fool.

Aug 14, 2019
Blackhole imaging
Stop talking crap, you moron. The M87 image is in radio, you idiot. Just give up, you clueless fool

Can be in radio
REALY, Castrogiovanni
Well tell that to the hordes of photographers, desperate for Sagittarius*A's Selfie

Aug 14, 2019
Blackhole imaging
Stop talking crap, you moron. The M87 image is in radio, you idiot. Just give up, you clueless fool

Can be in radio
REALY, Castrogiovanni
Well tell that to the hordes of photographers, desperate for Sagittarius*A's Selfie


Dickhead. That had nothing to do with dust. Get an education you clown, and stop commenting on things you don't understand.

Aug 14, 2019
"In the final analysis (if there ever is one in science),"

REALLY??

Aug 14, 2019
Is there any indication how much in-fall mass was involved ?

Aug 14, 2019
I'll see you all at the FINAL ANALYSIS

Aug 14, 2019
When we get EHT images of sag A* with, and without, these flare events there will be a lot less speculation and a lot more information. Especially as its so much closer than M87.

I beg to differ.

Aug 14, 2019
This newer exhibition by the alleged Black Hole is interesting. I counted 3 very bright pulses before the clock in the .gif reversed back to 10.0.
If that is, indeed, the alleged Black Hole SgrA* pulsing brightly and steadily, there is a possibility that it is 'feeding'.
The clock's event duration in the .gif was much too short, so that it would have revealed much more 'timing' of the pulsing if the .gif had been longer - say 25 seconds. A bit disappointing.

They can call it a "flare". I call it a "pulse".

Aug 14, 2019
Blackhole imaging
Stop talking crap, you moron. The M87 image is in radio, you idiot. Just give up, you clueless fool

Can be in radio
REALY, Castrogiovanni
Well tell that to the hordes of photographers, desperate for Sagittarius*A's Selfie


Dickhead. That had nothing to do with dust. Get an education you clown, and stop commenting on things you don't understand.
says Castroagogo

Regardless of what shows up in the spectrograph, whether NIF or radio, the DUST IS THERE. Depending on how extensive the presence of dust and gas, the fact is that DUST IS MATTER, and because it is Matter, it is attracted to the alleged Black Hole. A huge cloud of dust is capable of OBSCURING the alleged Black Hole like a swarm of ants on a chicken bone.
You should consider all possibilities BEFORE you prove your inability to cope with reality. The dust is already known to exist there, which is why they say that SgrA* is less clear than M87.

Aug 14, 2019
My Selfie for a Blackhole
SEU> The dust is already known to exist there, which is why they say that SgrA* is less clear than M87

How Sagittarius*A is pea green with envy
Foreth
Because of all this galactic centre dusty shroud
Sagittarius*A is fore ever to remain just an anonyms super massive blackhole
Afraid to show its face in public
Fore despite every ones best efforts
Coaxing flairs from all these dust clouds in this shroud of dust
Sagittarius*A is just not playing ball
Well
It's not fair
All the other galactic blackholes shine through their dusty centres for their radio selfies
It's just not fair!
Surely, Sagittarius*A is visible in these same radio selfies

p.s. or is this reality; Sagittarius*A, in all reality is simply a quiescent blackhole

Aug 14, 2019
sag a was not easily imaged because it moves too much due to it's relative nearness and this caused problems with the imaging technique. Not because of dust.

in this case, the further the object actually makes it easier to image.

Aug 14, 2019
SgrA* doesn't "move too much". If it did, SO2, S14 and the other 2 Stars that come closest would have been swallowed up and no longer visible. In any case, alleged Black Holes are in the very centre of galaxies, with little room to move anywhere in spite of distances due to the clusters of Stars in its close vicinity.
It is "feeding" on dust aka Matter. Matter of the type that dust is doesn't have as much motility and escape velocity as dense Stars that are able to escape the Black Hole by centrifugal force around it in its orbit around the BH.

Aug 14, 2019
With modern sophisticated electronic telescopes
Darth Ender> sag a was not easily imaged because it moves too much due to it's relative nearness and this caused problems with the imaging technique. Not because of dust.

in this case, the further the object actually makes it easier to image.

Darth Ender, Sagittarius*A's apparent moment
Is no longer a problem
For it is simply
Another algorithmic calculation
On top of Selfies algorithm
Foreth, Darth Ender
Nobody is going to be able to distinguish
M87s algorithm from Sagittarius*A's algorithm
So, I wouldn't worry about it
All algorithms look the same!

Aug 14, 2019
This newer exhibition by the alleged Black Hole is interesting. I counted 3 very bright pulses before the clock in the .gif reversed back to 10.0.
If that is, indeed, the alleged Black Hole SgrA* pulsing brightly and steadily, there is a possibility that it is 'feeding'.
The clock's event duration in the .gif was much too short, so that it would have revealed much more 'timing' of the pulsing if the .gif had been longer - say 25 seconds. A bit disappointing.

They can call it a "flare". I call it a "pulse".
How bout a flaring that pulsed in amplitude?
Actually, it doesn't look pulsating. That would happen with more regularity in both timing and amplitude.
Shucks. If only they'd given you more "time"...

Aug 14, 2019
Even if SgrA* had been farther away, it would still cause a blurry picture. It is not as massive as M87 which was also disappointing due to the blurred image, and the dependence on algorithms to fill in what was missing.

Aug 14, 2019
SgrA* doesn't "move too much".


I know you're a troll who shouldn't be recognized or responded to ever here.

But jesus hell are you stupid. We have telescopes in multiple places on the earth that combined their views to image the same spot. Basically an earth sized interferometer. This was combined with views while the earth orbited the sun ...creating an earth orbit sized interferometer. The time it took to do that also coincides with the solar system moving in the galaxy. Our proximity to sag A yielded movement that needs more corrections to compensate for. The angle to something further away makes this movement insignificant. This is all explained in the articles that coincided with the image reveal.

Aug 14, 2019
SEU, Now the dust has settled, the press have gone home
SEU> SgrA* doesn't "move too much". If it did, SO2, S14 and the other 2 Stars that come closest would have been swallowed up and no longer visible

The arguments put forward against Sagittarius*A's telescopic imaging
Are falling about at the seams
Sagittarius*A's relative movement against the background stars
Are
Exactly the same as these observed clouds of dust
Proposed, actively being tidally stretched
Causing Sagittarius*A's to flare

Aug 14, 2019
This newer exhibition by the alleged Black Hole is interesting. I counted 3 very bright pulses before the clock in the .gif reversed back to 10.0.
If that is, indeed, the alleged Black Hole SgrA* pulsing brightly and steadily, there is a possibility that it is 'feeding'.
The clock's event duration in the .gif was much too short, so that it would have revealed much more 'timing' of the pulsing if the .gif had been longer - say 25 seconds. A bit disappointing.

They can call it a "flare". I call it a "pulse".
How bout a flaring that pulsed in amplitude?
Actually, it doesn't look pulsating. That would happen with more regularity in both timing and amplitude.
Shucks. If only they'd given you more "time"...
says Whyde

The problem is that they provided a .gif that lasted only ~3 seconds. I counted 3 pulses within those 3 seconds per the clock in the .gif. IF it was a "flare" such as in a Solar Flare, it would not have been a steady pulse of 3 in 3 seconds.

Aug 14, 2019
here's a quick q&a with the people actually involved in the project :
https://www.lives...age.html

you can jump to the last question. Summarizes things a fairly well. Other publications may have more complete detailed explanations.

Aug 14, 2019
I look at distant photos of galaxies. Edge on there is not much to see, a line with a fat spot in the middle. Being right in the middle of the Milky Way's dust lanes we cannot see the cent very well, just small spots lurking behind thin spots in the dust.
Galaxy photos taken by Hubble that are flat show what the others do not, the spiral arms and the size of the bulge. Plus all the stars orbiting the BH, giving us a very good estimate of mass.

Transferring the more complete information to our own galaxy gives a good idea of what is going on.
The question is 'Where is the infalling mass coming from'?
Hot clouds emit signals, that is how we know where gas and dust are. All seems to be accounted for, at least in quantities capable of the disruption observed.
Star S02 may have had 'cold' non emitting debris pulled off during the last flyby and is now spiraling into the event horizon.

More data will identify the mass and then we will know. My bet is on chunks from the star.

Aug 14, 2019
"Star S02 may have had 'cold' non emitting debris pulled off during the last flyby and is now spiraling into the event horizon."

Where did you see that?

Aug 14, 2019
there is bo such thing as a
"simply a quiescent blackhole"

you cannot image a Black Hole or, for that matter,
anything within the boundary of the Event Horizon

within the boundary is all gravitrons, all the time
only remorseless gravitational attraction escapes
which is as perpetual as any mechanism is capable of
& as close to eternal as our monkey brains can conceive

from the boundary without,
to the accretion disk,
the violent jets,
the material sphere with orbiting clouds of dusts & gases,
to wreckage flying back & forth in shuttlecock ballistic orbits
& any junk that somehow got dropkicked into a permanent escape velocity?

these all obey the Newtonian Principles explained by Newton with the added value of du Châtelet's corrections & work on energy.

no deitistic lightning bolts or magical interpretations of Galvinism or plasmaspazztical fantasies are needed to explain the observed natural phenomena of randomly crashing rocks

Aug 14, 2019
Still a little wet behind the ears, Darth Ender
Darth Ender> I know you're a troll who shouldn't be recognized or responded to ever here.

Foreth, DarthEnder

TrollianDarthEnder
There lives a great ugly troll
With eyes as big as saucers
A nose as long as a poker
Who lives under a bridge

TrollianDarthEnder, you have been around more than long enough to be conversant in these mythical beasts
Your bridge awaits, TrollianDarthEnder

Aug 14, 2019
@etherair
You said:
"Star S02 may have had 'cold' non emitting debris pulled off during the last flyby and is now spiraling into the event horizon."

Where did you see that?


Please specify.

Aug 14, 2019
LOL As of 7 minutes ago, etherair is in another phorum: https://phys.org/...ate.html
I suppose he is a comment and run type of commentator.

Aug 14, 2019
When we doubt what we cannot see, rrwillsj
rrwillsj > there is bo such thing as a
"simply a quiescent blackhole"

you cannot image a Black Hole or, for that matter,
anything within the boundary of the Event Horizon

A white knight appears on the horizon
In this magical form
Rrwillsj appears in magical form
Espousing worldly words of wisdom
Of all things, Sagittarius*A
Sagittarius*A, our super massive blackhole
Our invisible blackhole
Our quiesicent blackhole
There is just one tiny weeny point concerning Sagittarius*A's light-radius, rrwillsj
It follows this formula: R = 2GM/C²
This implies, rrwillsj
This light-radius only exists in a femto-metre width
At its light-radius
Because
Gravity is zero at this blackholes centre of mass
Photons pass through this femto-metre width
Because
Either side of this femto-metre width
Gravity diminishes to zero!

Aug 14, 2019
This is interesting SEU
SEU > LOL As of 7 minutes ago, etherair is in another phorum: https://phys.org/...ate.html
I suppose he is a comment and run type of commentator.

As the escape velocity reduces to zero at the blackholes centre
because
this encircling matter
is circling at lightspeed
this matter
due to centrifugal force
cannot fall into this blackhole
because
this force of gravity
is diminishing
The closer the force of gravity gets to this centre of mass

Aug 14, 2019
Watching the nutjobs make up excuses is always amusing.

Most amusing excuse. "It's plasmods!!!11!!eleventyone!!11!"

Second most amusing. "It's Xenu!!!11!!eleventyone!!11!"


Aug 14, 2019
Watching the nutjobs make up excuses is always amusing.

Most amusing excuse. "It's plasmods!!!11!!eleventyone!!11!"

Second most amusing. "It's Xenu!!!11!!eleventyone!!11!"
Third most amusing. "it's Da Schneibo!!!11!!eleventyone!!11!"

Aug 14, 2019
Watching the nutjobs make up excuses is always amusing.

Most amusing excuse. "It's plasmods!!!11!!eleventyone!!11!"

Second most amusing. "It's Xenu!!!11!!eleventyone!!11!"
Third most amusing. "it's Da Schneibo!!!11!!eleventyone!!11!"
says Benni

ROFLOL Poor Schneib is having trouble speaking English now. It must be all those evil spells he's casting on unwary new commenters that are doing him in.
You have just sent his evil spell back onto him, by the way.

Schneib seems a bit lonely lately. His Master isn't paying him much attention.

Aug 14, 2019
In search of black holes and dark matter astrophysicists are relying on indirect observations. It would seem that the measurement of the event horizon of a black hole directly would be a direct evidence. However, by the nature of a horizon, any real measurement of the event horizon will be indirect. The Event Horizon Telescope will get picture of the silhouette of the Sgr A* which is due to optical effects of spacetime outside of the event horizon. The result will be determined by the simple quality of the resulting image that does not depend on the properties of the spacetime within the image. So, it will be also indirect and an existence of BH is a hypothesis.
https://www.acade...ilky_Way

Aug 14, 2019
Schneib seems a bit lonely lately. His Master isn't paying him much attention.
.....so what should he do?

Aug 14, 2019
Schneib seems a bit lonely lately. His Master isn't paying him much attention.
.....so what should he do?
says Benni

I don't know. Maybe Schneib can get together in a pub in Boston with SpookyOtto and listen to Otto complain endlessly about how women keep having babies until it kills them. And then listen to a lecture on the 'tribal dynamic' directly from the Spook. Who else knows so much about both topics?

Aug 14, 2019
The only way to know is to gather more data, not only with the Keck, while the galactic center is still visible at night, but with other telescopes.
At least we can safely rule out the "plasmoid" hypothesis since the emission was only in NIR with no optical component ...

Aug 15, 2019
When we doubt what we cannot see, rrwillsj
rrwillsj > there is bo such thing as a
"simply a quiescent blackhole"

you cannot image a Black Hole or, for that matter,
anything within the boundary of the Event Horizon

A white knight appears on the horizon
In this magical form
Rrwillsj appears in magical form
Espousing worldly words of wisdom
Of all things, Sagittarius*A
Sagittarius*A, our super massive blackhole
Our invisible blackhole
Our quiesicent blackhole
There is just one tiny weeny point concerning Sagittarius*A's light-radius, rrwillsj
It follows this formula: R = 2GM/C²
This implies, rrwillsj
This light-radius only exists in a femto-metre width
At its light-radius
Because
Gravity is zero at this blackholes centre of mass
Photons pass through this femto-metre width
Because
Either side of this femto-metre width
Gravity diminishes to zero!

No,. it does not...

Aug 15, 2019
I have learnt to not rule out anything when it comes to science. It is always changing. A consensus one week can be overturned the following week and it wouldn't even be known unless one keeps up with the new science that is published online. I am beginning to understand more about the Matter/Energy and their relationship to the 4 Forces. I can do all of this learning if I concentrate harder.

Aug 15, 2019
Photons Crossing the Light-Radius

Whydening Gyre
There is just one tiny weensy point concerning Sagittarius*A's light-radius, rrwillsj
It follows this formula: R = 2GM/C²
This implies, rrwillsj
This light-radius only exists in a femto-metre width
At its light-radius
Because
Gravity is zero at this blackholes centre of mass
Photons pass through this femto-metre width

Either side of this femto-metre width
Gravity diminishes to zero!

Whydening Gyre> No, it does not

Whydening Gyre
Gravity is zero at this blackholes centre of mass
Gravity falls to zero either side this femto-metre wide light-radius
Photons pass through this femto-metre width light-radius
Foreth WG, Why not can it not cross this femto-metre width?
This light-radius is only a quantum width wide
A photon loses energy proportional to force time distance
Where this distance is less than a femto-metre

Aug 15, 2019
You should consider all possibilities BEFORE you prove your inability to cope with reality. The dust is already known to exist there, which is why they say that SgrA* is less clear than M87.


Wrong, dumbo. Nowhere do they say that. Idiot. Stop commenting on things you don't understand, lizard boy.

Aug 15, 2019
Photons Crossing the Light-Radius

Whydening Gyre, this light-radius is not an impenetrable barrier
A photon does not stop dead when it reach's this femto-width light-radius

For Gravity
Takes an infinitely long time to bring a body to a halt
Sir Isaac Newton

This means, Whydening Gyre
When a body travels at the escape velocity of a star
Travels through that stars escape velocity
That body takes an infinitely long time
For that stars gravity to bring that body to a halt

Foreth, Whydening Gyre
This meaneths
This photon will simply breeze through this femto-metre light-radius!

Aug 15, 2019
If you doubt this observation, Whydening Gyre

Foreth, Whydening Gyre
This meaneths
This photon will simply breeze through this femto-metre light-radius!

Just look at what you are already actually accepting
You are accepting
That
Gravity fall to zero at this centre of mass
And this gravity rise's to gravities light-radius approaching this light-radius
So, Whydening Gyre
What earthly difference doth it make?
Which direction this photon cross's this light-radius

Fore, it falls to zero either side of this light-radius!

p.s. this photon has to move through a non diminishing light-radius for a considerable distance to equal this photons energy, not a diminishing light-radius crossing a femto-metre

Aug 15, 2019
^^^^^^ Do shut up you uneducated clown.

Aug 15, 2019
For the moral of this observation, Whydening Gyre

Is not that this photon can escape this light-radius
It is that it travels a considerable distance outside this diminishing light-radius
Before gravity brings this photon to a halt
Because
When gravity brings this photon to a halt, it does not change this photons velocity
It ceases to exist when it's used its last quantum of energy!

Aug 15, 2019
For the moral of this observation, Whydening Gyre

Is not that this photon can escape this light-radius
It is that it travels a considerable distance outside this diminishing light-radius
Before gravity brings this photon to a halt
Because
When gravity brings this photon to a halt, it does not change this photons velocity
It ceases to exist when it's used its last quantum of energy!

Not sure what you re getting at, G'ville…
At the center of ANY body, gravity is the same as all the matter directly adjacent to that center...
As to photonic velocity, that energy is transferred to spin. Of itself and of the moving collective of stuff surrounding a BH and the BH itself.
Everything is in motion.

Aug 15, 2019
my goodness the looneyticks are bloviating a mighty whimper of ignorance

first rule is:
inside the boundary of an event horizon?
there ain't no rules

second rule is:
until you can actually do the math? yourself?
you ain't got no say in what's going on inside the EH
copying & pasting other people's work, out of context, doesn't mean you're smart
it means you are an uncreative plagiarist troll

third rule is:
denying Gravity is a certainty for learning how to fall

Aug 15, 2019
Just brainstorming a bit.

Lets assume a couple things.
1. black holes evaporate.
2. you can survive crossing the event horizon of some kind of black hole with all the right attributes to allow you to.

so lets say you cross the event horizon. Wouldn't the moment you did this, equate to the entire life of the universe passing instantly from your internal perspective?

Clincher: Black hole evaporation occurs throughout the life of a black hole, shrinking it until something happens when it no longer has the mass to be a black hole. Whatever that ends up being.

So the moment you infall into a black hole, it disappears because it evaporated (assuming it eventually ate less mass than it lost). Would you be left floating around in space time traveled to the future date of the death of the black hole or would you be dragged towards the singularity instantly as the event horizon shrank instantly upon you entering it? Kind of like a barrier or does it fade? meh. fun thoughts.

Aug 15, 2019
Big black holes take trillions of years to evaporate by Hawking radiation. There haven't been trillions of years. Do with that what you will.

Aug 15, 2019
A trillion years for us to observe a black hole evaporate is instantaneous from the perspective of the individual who has crossed into the event horizon ...so if the tidal forces of gravity are still low enough to survive there should be a distance from inside the event horizon they could still be alive and fall towards the singularity at where the time dilation from their current position and the even horizon approaches infinite...

Evaporation steals energy/mass from the singularity, which is in front of you and at an infinitely slower time reference than your own, while the action of evaporation is behind you approaching infinitely faster than your own. The singularity should basically instantly explode once gravity can no longer contain the energy ...blasting you to death but in the far far future in some distant position in the universe from where you just were. maybe.

Aug 15, 2019
de, why do you assume that you will be experiencing the end of spacetime?
instead of the beginning?

you would be as a fly trapped in amber
a passive observer of the evolution of spacetime over billions & trillions of tears

without the capability of interacting or participating,
communicating or contributing?

for those people who desire immortality?
i think they are idiots with no comprehension of "endless years"
i would pity their success

Aug 15, 2019
then again, that time dilation effect should reduce as the black hole evaporates. while at the same time the safety of size would reduce ...increasing tidal forces and ensuring even "safe" black holes instantly become unsafe when you fall in.

And i guess since the density never changes, the black hole never really explode it just gets smaller. less exciting but equally dead.

Aug 15, 2019
Waiting to read Castrovagina's comment of exasperation on the above poster. Will it happen? And will Torbjorn the Swede block the offender?

Aug 15, 2019
Waiting to read Castrovagina's comment of exasperation on the above poster. Will it happen? And will Torbjorn the Swede block the offender?
.......I've become curious as to where he is trying to go with his Comments. Just as I think he's about to make a salient point, he suddenly seems to go psycho-babble & it's like looking at a spinning compass hand, no direction.

Aug 15, 2019
Waiting to read Castrovagina's comment of exasperation on the above poster. Will it happen? And will Torbjorn the Swede block the offender?
.......I've become curious as to where he is trying to go with his Comments. Just as I think he's about to make a salient point, he suddenly seems to go psycho-babble & it's like looking at a spinning compass hand, no direction.


I'm not even going to explain to him that 'time' has no way to dilate...or to do anything at all.
Physorg does that to a lot of commenters. Look what its done to jonesy, Schneib, Otto, Torbjorn, rrwillsj and even RC now. They are all so full of themselves. Jonesy has a fear of change that might wind up in textbooks that he will have to learn all over again. Same with Schneib and Torbjorn. Otto thinks he is King Otto, and rrwillsj is just plain nuts.

But the articles are good in physorg, so I think I'l stay.

Aug 16, 2019
Waiting to read Castrovagina's comment of exasperation on the above poster. Will it happen? And will Torbjorn the Swede block the offender?
.......I've become curious as to where he is trying to go with his Comments. Just as I think he's about to make a salient point, he suddenly seems to go psycho-babble & it's like looking at a spinning compass hand, no direction.


@Benni, hey just like you!

Aug 16, 2019
by golly, geewhilikers,
the looneyticks are fulminating!
or, perhaps fermenting would be a more accurate description?

the problem for the science sites is providing unfiltered forums for the trash-pickers
who retrieve to plagiarize discarded speculations & novel concepts made obsolete by observation & experimentation

then presenting those junked imaginings as if these were the scammers original work

& then whooboy!
they get mad that anyone would call them on their villainy

they got crappy products to sell to the gullible (jp & de should recognize themselves)
& the bunco artists resent having the cold-water of facts thrown on their humping dogs

Aug 16, 2019
The only way to know is to gather more data, not only with the Keck, while the galactic center is still visible at night, but with other telescopes.
At least we can safely rule out the "plasmoid" hypothesis since the emission was only in NIR with no optical component ...

How exactly do yo figure? And how would gravity produce this NIR emission?

Aug 16, 2019

How exactly do yo figure? And how would gravity produce this NIR emission?


Perhaps we could answer that after you have answered the question that you keep avoiding - how are you explaining the stellar orbits and gravitational redshift at BHs with plasmoid woo?

Aug 16, 2019
Oops. Another inconvenient observation. Sharpen those pencils. Gosh, what have I been saying all these years??

Aug 16, 2019
According to Benni there are no black holes. The rotations of stars like S0-2 are explained by a normal barycenter. Which just happens to flare up...

Aug 16, 2019
Gosh, what have I been saying all these years??


A bunch of crap inspired by the lunatic LaViolette, as far as I can see.

Aug 16, 2019
'time' has no way to dilate...

Wrong. That's been explained to you in mathematical terms, while you offer nothing but your self-inflated opinions. Guess what those are worth? About as much as a bag of smashed arseholes.

Aug 16, 2019

Wrong. That's been explained to you in mathematical terms,..........


And at that point you lost him!

Aug 16, 2019
what a masochist

now cant & all you other looneyticks listen up
here's some simple words for your simple minds

"... how would gravity produce this NIR emission? ..."

rocks
lots of rocks
lots of rocks banging together

lots of rocks means lots of sparks from friction
in a vacuum, friction gradually builds up lots of heat in the lots of rocks

lots of heat are the detected NIR emissions
the gravitational attraction emitting from the Black Hole
pulls lots of rocks in to form the accretion disk
the infalling rocks get pulled faster & faster
with a stupendous variety of continuous collisions

a simple mechanical process of random chaos failing to organize itself
no magical woo needed

no matter what you think you are seeing?
the reality is pandemonium
that goes right off the charts once any of it enters the boundary of the Event Horizon

Aug 16, 2019
i am sad that the great Stephen Hawking's reputation will forever be tarnished by having his theory of EH radiation hijacked by the despicable machinations of frauds & fakirs

Aug 17, 2019
The flaring is not visible in optical light. It's all happening in the near-infrared...

So I asked LaViolette about whether this was due to gravitational red-shift. He agreed, saying:

"I estimate that light leaving the surface of Sgr A* undergoes a gravitational redshift of Z = 0.45. This means that visible yellow light leaving the surface at 540 nm
would be redshifted to 785 nm which falls in the near infrared (750 - 2500 nm). So what they are seeing is likely an eruption from the surface of the Mother star."

That is Sag A is not infinitely dense, and periodically erupts, occasionally massively, producing super waves of radiation, causing dramatic changes in our climate that are found in the ice core records, like the last ice age. And I surmise that may be why some old civilizations hid underground at times.

Aug 17, 2019
The flaring is not visible in optical light. It's all happening in the near-infrared...

So I asked LaViolette about whether this was due to gravitational red-shift. He agreed, saying:

"I estimate that light leaving the surface of Sgr A* undergoes a gravitational redshift of Z = 0.45. This means that visible yellow light leaving the surface at 540 nm
would be redshifted to 785 nm which falls in the near infrared (750 - 2500 nm). So what they are seeing is likely an eruption from the surface of the Mother star."

That is Sag A is not infinitely dense, and periodically erupts, occasionally massively, producing super waves of radiation, causing dramatic changes in our climate that are found in the ice core records, like the last ice age. And I surmise that may be why some old civilizations hid underground at times.


Oh dear! He really has become insane, hasn't he?

Aug 17, 2019
Anthropogenic Blackhole Climate Change
Tuxford> That is Sag A is not infinitely dense, and periodically erupts, occasionally massively, producing super waves of radiation, causing dramatic changes in our climate that are found in the ice core records, like the last ice age. And I surmise that may be why some old civilizations hid underground at times

Little did we know?
That we have Anthropogenic Blackhole Climate Change
Causing prehistoric man to seek shelter in caves
Caused by Sagittarius*A
And we just thought these peoples were simply cave men living in caves
How wrong we were

Aug 17, 2019
'time' has no way to dilate...

Wrong. That's been explained to you in mathematical terms, while you offer nothing but your self-inflated opinions. Guess what those are worth? About as much as a bag of smashed arseholes.
says Mrjingles

Wrong?? How so? Mathematical terms don't do diddly when it comes to proving 'time dilation'. A full OBSERVATION of 'time' dilating is the ONLY WAY as unequivocal proof that is, has been, or will be happening. As nobody with eyes has EVER SEEN time dilating, nor has anyone with eyes ever SEEN 'time', means that it is STILL ONLY a mere theory that is purportedly backed up by numbers and symbols, but NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE OF IT.
Mathematics is the Philosophy of Numbers, where it attempts to prove that which is unprovable by any other means. If math is used at all, it is only AFTER THE FACT that has already been proven physically. If math is used to predict, it will have to be modified at least once after the physical proof was evident.

Aug 17, 2019
As nobody with eyes has EVER SEEN time dilating, nor has anyone with eyes ever SEEN 'time', means that it is STILL ONLY a mere theory that is purportedly backed up by numbers and symbols, but NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE OF IT.


Wrong. Trivially. That NAVSTAR paper too difficult for you was it? Need it translated into Reptilian?

Aug 17, 2019
Since there has never been any physical proof that 'time' exists, or that 'time' can dilate, the theory of 'time' is all washed up. And rightly so. There has never been any proof that an observer could see into a spaceship to watch the humans within the ship moving slower according to the ship's velocity as it approaches the 'speed of light'. Therefore, it is still only a THEORY, NOT PHYSICAL FACT.
It is merely the insanity of the human mind that has given that 'temporal ghost' its own identity and qualifications, and has given it its own place in the lexicon of science.

Aug 17, 2019
As nobody with eyes has EVER SEEN time dilating, nor has anyone with eyes ever SEEN 'time', means that it is STILL ONLY a mere theory that is purportedly backed up by numbers and symbols, but NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE OF IT.


Wrong. Trivially. That NAVSTAR paper too difficult for you was it? Need it translated into Reptilian?


GPS IS A PHYSICAL PIECE OF MACHINERY. TIME IS NOT HIDING IN THAT MACHINERY, NOR INFLUENCING THE MECHANISM. As with all Atomic Clocks, it is the mechanical movements that are measuring the incremental physics of the Atomic clocks as they continue ticking the seconds.
Nothing more, nothing less. There is no such thing as 'time' involved in these mechanical processes.

Aug 17, 2019
GPS IS A PHYSICAL PIECE OF MACHINERY. TIME IS NOT HIDING IN THAT MACHINERY, NOR INFLUENCING THE MECHANISM. As with all Atomic Clocks, it is the mechanical movements that are measuring the incremental physics of the Atomic clocks as they continue ticking the seconds.
Nothing more, nothing less. There is no such thing as 'time' involved in these mechanical processes.


Trivially false. As proven. Give up lizard boy. You are far too dumb to discuss science.

Aug 17, 2019
It is now proven by yourself that YOU are quite insane. And all of your ad hominem is the result of your mental illness. Your hate of being proved wrong compels you to ad hominem without explaining exactly what is wrong.

Aug 17, 2019
GPS is based on the timing of signals from different satellites and doesn't work without relativistic time corrections for both velocity and gravity based time dilation.

That is all.

Aug 17, 2019
It is now proven by yourself that YOU are quite insane. And all of your ad hominem is the result of your mental illness. Your hate of being proved wrong compels you to ad hominem without explaining exactly what is wrong.


So, you didn't understand the paper? Thought not. And you would have to prove a lot more people than me wrong, dickhead. Practically every physicist on the planet. And you are way too dumb to do that, lizard boy.

Aug 18, 2019
GPS is based on the timing of signals from different satellites and doesn't work without relativistic time corrections for both velocity and gravity based time dilation.

That is all.
says Schneib - wrong

What you refer to as 'timing of signals' are purely mechanical interactions that are based on the settings of other mechanisms on different satellites with the ongoing or intermittent communications between all that are involved. Velocity, altitude, direction and other factors are all built-in to the mechanisms of each clockwork and are automatically modified as needed.
No "relativistic time" is required, whatever that is. It is all done automatically with intercommunications connections by the satellite clockworks. The changes to incremental measurements of duration to each clock are made with references to conditions of altitude, velocity, etc. relative to the Atomic clocks at sea level.
No lurking about by time-phantoms. Only the MECHANICS OF JUMPING ELECTRONS.

Aug 18, 2019
-contd-
When you drive to a gas station to fill up your tank with petrol, as soon as you remove your credit card from the machine it computes how much money you have left on the card to let you know that once you have reached the limit, whether or not your tank is full, the machine will stop pumping more petrol into your tank. That machine is also in contact with the mainframe inside the store where, if you are unhappy with only half a tank you will have the option to enter the store and pay in cash. And the whole procedure is mechanised - WHICH MEANS THAT NO 'TIME' WAS INVOLVED. GPS ON SATELLITES are similar to the machine that pumps petrol into your car that measures how many gallons have been pumped; how much it costs per gallon; how much the total cost of the petrol; and often a query or two.
And there is no "spooky time" lurking inside the machine as it calculates/measures automatically.

Aug 18, 2019
Gravitational red-shift can also explain why supermassive core stars of quasars always appear very distant. They may not actually all be so distant, only appear so due to high red-shift induced by the massive gravity at the surface.

(Beware the lurking intellectual egomaniacs and NSA trolls always present on this board. They should be ignored by those who care to learn, rather than follow the lemmings pursuing ignorance. Their opinions are not considered.)

Aug 18, 2019
And gravitational red-shift can explain why the recent image of a supermassive black hole in M87 appeared as dark silhouette. It needs an IR image to be seen. And that may be difficult. So the myth continues, as many here will cheer!

Aug 18, 2019
oh deer, which loon to castigate first
silly for openly proving his stupidity with the contradiction of claiming "time signals"
& his infantile denial of the existence of "time"...
come on silly which idiocy should we believe of you?

tux, you are a loon repeating the lunacy of another loon
there must be a big flock of loons out there for you to nest with
why pester this science site with anything so crazy as "gravity redshift"?

these two are scraping the bottom of the barrel to try & out stupid one another with ludicrous delusions

remember the new meme:
"as hard as you try?
you cannot out stupid donnybrook trump?"

really? greenland? siriusly?
lemme guess. the senile buffoon geard someone mention Greenland...
he heard "green" & his pingpong ball brain went "ooh, golf course resort!"
i wonder which charity or defense program he will embezzle the funds from for this brainfart?

Aug 19, 2019
Still no science or maths coming out of rrwillsj's fingers - only the weirdest diatribes against other commentators. rrwillsj must lead a very, extremely lonely life.
Sad

Aug 19, 2019
And gravitational red-shift can explain why the recent image of a supermassive black hole in M87 appeared as dark silhouette. It needs an IR image to be seen. And that may be difficult. So the myth continues, as many here will cheer!


No it can't. Stop making sh!t up, you clown.

Aug 19, 2019
Still no science or maths coming out of rrwillsj's fingers - only the weirdest diatribes against other commentators. rrwillsj must lead a very, extremely lonely life.
Sad


Lol. And since when have you ever presented any maths or science, lizard boy? That would be never, you uneducated blowhard.

Aug 19, 2019
The NSA is desperate to keep you in technical ignorance. National security requires the continued delusion supporting only relativistic physics. Electrogravitic weaponry is too easy and too dangerous to inspire Trump's authoritarian allies to investigate. So their trolls and bots lead the way, with knee-jerk put-downs. This has worked for decades. Why not continue? The masses are stupid.

Aug 19, 2019
oh. it was a close call
but tux beat out silly as champion loon of 2019
sorry benny but you've won it so many years you've been retired

now tux, my boy,
please credit the comicbook where you picked up the hallucination of "electrogravitic" weapons

from which lunacy binge did you ever get the delusion that you are important enough or competent enough to be entrusted with military secrets?

& only a flaming hippie libertarian doper would violate National Security regulations!
that's the trunpster's job one!

{electrogravitic? i'm not certain but, in your opinion, which is more the fool?
a stupid loon or a crazed loon?}

tux, DO NOT attempt to prove elecrograximatazz
by stripping one end of an electric cord to bare wire
shoving that exposed copper
up your fat pink trumpfaced ass
then plugging the other end into a live wall outlet

cause by my "math"
you will be propelled
butt not floated away on moonbeams

no "matter" how much "time"
silly eggs you on!

Aug 19, 2019
The NSA is desperate to keep you in technical ignorance. National security requires the continued delusion supporting only relativistic physics. Electrogravitic weaponry is too easy and too dangerous to inspire Trump's authoritarian allies to investigate. So their trolls and bots lead the way, with knee-jerk put-downs. This has worked for decades. Why not continue? The masses are stupid.


A conspiracist as well as a physics crank! Wow, never seen that before! :) Award yourself a shed load of points from the Crackpot Index.

http://math.ucr.e...pot.html

Aug 23, 2019
A full observation of 'time' dilating is the only way as unequivocal proof that is, has been, or will be happening. As nobody with eyes has ever seen time dilating, nor has anyone with eyes ever seen 'time', means that it is still only a mere theory that is purportedly backed up by numbers and symbols, but no actual evidence...


We have seen it though, are you familiar with muons? We know their decay rate, so if we detect one and know its energy and distance traveled, we can measure the time dilation, as well as length contraction the muon experienced. You choose to be ignorant, but you can come to the light side any time you wish.

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