New reading of Mesha Stele could have far-reaching consequences for biblical history

New reading of Mesha Stele could have far-reaching consequences for biblical history
Photography of Mesha Stele. Credit: Wikimedia Commons, the free media repository

The biblical King Balak may have been a historical figure, according to a new reading of the Mesha Stele, an inscribed stone dating from the second half of the 9th century BCE.

A name in Line 31 of the stele, previously thought to read 'House of David', could instead read 'Balak', a king of Moab mentioned in the biblical of Balaam (Numbers 22-24), say archaeologist Prof. Israel Finkelstein and historians and biblical scholars Prof. Nadav Na'aman and Prof. Thomas Römer, in an article published in Tel Aviv: The Journal of the Institute of Archaeology of Tel Aviv University.

The Mesha Stele was found in the 19th century in the ruins of the biblical town of Dibon in Moab (present day Jordan), and is now in the Louvre. The stone's inscription tells the story of the territorial expansion and construction endeavours of King Mesha of Moab, who is mentioned in the Bible. The stele was cracked in the 19th century and parts of it are missing, but portions of the missing parts are preserved in a reverse copy of the inscription, known as a 'squeeze', made before the stele cracked.

The authors studied new high-resolution photographs of the squeeze, and of the stele itself. These new images made it clear that there are three consonants in the name of the monarch mentioned in Line 31, and that the first is the Hebrew letter beth (a 'b' sound).

While the other letters are eroded, the most likely candidate for the monarch's name is 'Balak', the authors say. The seat of the king referred to in Line 31 was at Horonaim, a place mentioned four times in the Bible in relation to the Moabite territory south of the Arnon River. "Thus, Balak may be a historical personality like Balaam, who, before the discovery of the Deir Alla inscription, was considered to be an 'invented' figure," they suggest.

"The new photographs of the Mesha Stele and the squeeze indicate that the reading, 'House of David' - accepted by many scholars for more than two decades—is no longer an option," the authors conclude. "With due caution we suggest the name of the Moabite king Balak, who, according to the Balaam story of Numbers 22-24, sought to bring a divine curse on the people of Israel.

"This story was written down later than the time of the Moabite referred to in the Mesha Stele. Yet, to give a sense of authenticity to his story, its author must have integrated into the plot certain elements borrowed from the ancient reality, including two personal names: Balaam and Balak."


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Israeli archaeologists find inscription of name from Bible

More information: Israel Finkelstein et al, Restoring Line 31 in the Mesha Stele: The 'House of David' or Biblical Balak?, Tel Aviv (2019). DOI: 10.1080/03344355.2019.1586378
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Citation: New reading of Mesha Stele could have far-reaching consequences for biblical history (2019, May 2) retrieved 17 July 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2019-05-mesha-stele-far-reaching-consequences-biblical.html
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May 02, 2019
House of david - another kernal of 'evidence' disproven.

"Tel Aviv University archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog wrote in the Haaretz newspaper:

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai..."

-Makes it much harder to discern the truth given the religionist propensity for lying, cheating, and stealing in defense of their gods. At least there isnt as much persecution and murder of late-

May 02, 2019
"accepted by many scholars for more than two decades"

-even this is a dirty lie. See the above quote for what the vast majority of decent, honest, reputable 'scholars' accept as fact.

And please note godders, just because balak may have been a real person doesnt mean he ever interacted with the fictional people known as Israel. It's just more evidence that ancient religionists like yourselves enjoyed interweaving facts with their fiction in order to make it easier to sell.

And despite the above study and conclusions, religionists will still cite the mesha stele as proof that the biblical david was real.

Lie is what they do.

May 02, 2019
my favorite retelling of babble stories is the original holey gossip was scribbled in consonants. No vowels.

If you remove the State enforced, ecclesiastical authorized & primate censored
vowels added much later to the original text?

Then replaced those empty spaces with a different series of vowels?

The original scripture reads as billboard posters advertising traveling carnivals & circuses & magic shows.

May 02, 2019
As always very thin gruel to assert existence from. The "Balaam" identification seems haphazard (wrong religion, wrong prophecies; https://en.wikipe...cription ) and the "Balak" identification rests on one letter and word length.

Finkelstein is a fresh breath within the "biblical history" buffoonery [ https://en.wikipe...kelstein ] and it is nice when he can replace presumed religious links with more critical reading. But he still seem to think parts of the modern religious text was written before the first archaeological evidence of a still piecemeal text tradition surfaces [the Dead Sea Scrolls].

May 02, 2019
LOL I see that the atheist God-haters/Satanists are present and almost all accounted for. I also see that the tainted God-Hater SpookyOtto1923 is presiding over any article of a biblical nature and, as usual, spouting off on the musings of Ze'ev Herzog of Ha'aretz fame in Herzog's devotion to negating any and all parts of biblical history while making up lies about "a female consort".
Well, that's fine. Nobody should make an attempt to refute whatever you truly believe since all of you have already condemned yourselves to that well-deserved pain and suffering in which you have willfully disbelieved, disrespected and defiantly rejected.

Human life is very short, and Satan himself has no interest in allowing you a longer life than you are allotted.

We KNOW how you have suffered the pangs of others' religious belief in the Creator God, and your reasons for wanting to quell it as much as possible. Continue on while Satan, your master, collects many more souls like yours.

May 02, 2019
preserved in a reverse copy of the inscription, known as a 'squeeze'

Hmm...so I guess, you can say, they are "squeezing" the "truth" out.

May 02, 2019
Pussytard the fake human says
how you have suffered the pangs of others' religious belief in the Creator God
Heres the wording that pussytard the lying freak used in a previous incarnation a few years ago...
God the Creator is not going to appear suddenly in front of our eyes, unless He chooses to do so
-thereby proving once again that this lying freak is the same pirouette/ritchieguy/obamasocks/racistblackguy/jewsrule/pussycat_eyes etcetcetc who regularly returns to this site like a fucking locust to lie about who she is and what she thinks.

Because that's what smelly lying trolls DO whether they truly believe in god or are just pretending. For shits and giggles.

What a waste of time and space.

May 02, 2019
oh sillyegghrad, you are the one mindlessly repeating the seductive whispering of your master mammon.

With your bombast of ignorant cant & sanguinary dogma. Deliberately denying your Humanity with violent threats to try & deprive all people of of Free Will & rational reasoning.

If you were mentally competent? (cue laugh-track)
You would apply the Turing Test to that fly buzzing in your ear.
As it is my observation that there is no practical difference between angels & robots.

May 02, 2019
oh sillyegghrad, you are the one mindlessly repeating the seductive whispering of your master mammon.

With your bombast of ignorant cant & sanguinary dogma. Deliberately denying your Humanity with violent threats to try & deprive all people of of Free Will & rational reasoning.

If you were mentally competent? (cue laugh-track)
You would apply the Turing Test to that fly buzzing in your ear.
As it is my observation that there is no practical difference between angels & robots.
says rr

Why do you continue to say nonsensical things while pretending to know me. You have no clue as to who I am. You just like to read all the silly things that you like to say to feel relevant and important. Shame on you,.

Theghostofotto1923 aka SpookyOtto1923 is again REPORTED for ABUSIVE AND INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE, and for unintelligent bombastic verbiage, besides mistaking my comments for those of his friends from the past. He will continue to do this until he dies of a heart attack.

May 02, 2019
"God the Creator is not going to appear suddenly in front of our eyes, unless He chooses to do so"

Whoever it was that made this statement was correct. And the fact that SpookyOtto1923 decided to paste it into this phorum shows that even Otto believes it.

May 02, 2019
To Shed a Ghostly Tear

TheGhostofOtto1923 Biblical Scholar
Oh Ghostly One
this ghostly one
these remaining Ghostly hours
this ghostly remaining time on this earth
comes to these biblical boards
to receive atonement for his ghostly sins
for his ghostly holiness
has sins most dire
these ghostly sins are taking their toll on Otto's ghostly holiness
Otto's chain is long and arduous
Otto's chains is no ordinary metal
this chain of Otto's own making
is taking Otto's last remaining time on this earth
for Otto to achieve atonement
of Otto's ghostly holiness
for that day Otto kneels before his Lord
for that day Otto's final atonement achieved
when Otto final sheds this ghostly exterior
sheds this ghastly chain of his own torment
Otto's atonements final achievement

To Shed a Ghostly Tear

May 02, 2019
Otto doesn't have long to live. His sins were piling up through the years of his wasted life, his miserable soul is dragging with each step he takes, much to the delight of his master, Satan. He doesn't feel it, but WE see what has come of it. There is no remorse, no shame, no sense of guilt. Otto will be gone soon, and will not be missed when he becomes the feast for worms.

May 02, 2019
Israel Finkelstein and Silberman's "The Bible UnEarthed" was what got me to pick up the Bible for the first time. There, I learned of the great Bronze age collapse mystery(one of the biggest archaeological puzzles left), and how people would go from agricultural to hunter gatherors on a whim if the agricultural life wasn't working, and of couse, I learned that one can indeed sort out and know the real "Bible Code". Well, one Bible code. Mythology is another.

I actually saw the book within two months of its release in 2001 at a book store no longer in existence. The bookstore was built into what was previously a theater. The Bible UnEarthed was the only real archaeology book; the rest were alternative archaeology - people living with dinosaurs, and ancient world civilizations, hundreds of thousands of years ago, and Atlantis!

May 02, 2019
ohh deer otto watch your six.
The american taliban activist sillyegghead is expressing outloud violent homicidal delusions.

Probablysticking pins in a voodoo doll with your name on it.

Wish I'd thought of it.
the mammon worshipping voodoo priest silly egghead is depriving me of my amusements!

hmm. come to think of it?
my patron Goddess Trickster Coyote could give the sillyegghead a good dose of it's own roodoohoodoo by inflicting a perpetual case of the Drunkard's Walk?

Teach the apostasy preacjing jerk humble penitence deserved for taking the baby deity's name in vain.

May 02, 2019
Israel Finkelstein and Silberman's "The Bible UnEarthed" was what got me to pick up the Bible for the first time. There, I learned of the great Bronze age collapse mystery(one of the biggest archaeological puzzles left), and how people would go from agricultural to hunter gatherors on a whim if the agricultural life wasn't working, and of couse, I learned that one can indeed sort out and know the real "Bible Code". Well, one Bible code. Mythology is another.

I actually saw the book within two months of its release in 2001 at a book store no longer in existence. The bookstore was built into what was previously a theater. The Bible UnEarthed was the only real archaeology book; the rest were alternative archaeology - people living with dinosaurs, and ancient world civilizations, hundreds of thousands of years ago, and Atlantis!

says flash

There are some evangelists who believe the Earth is only 6k-7k years old. They are deluded by those who misinterpreted Genesis

May 02, 2019
The Bible UnEarthed was the only real archaeology book; the rest were alternative archaeology - people living with dinosaurs, and ancient world civilizations, hundreds of thousands of years ago, and Atlantis!
says flashgordon

Atlantis may have been a real place. Possibly somewhere in the Mediterranean where there were many earthquakes that could cause a city to sink and be inundated by the ocean - similar to what AGW believers will happen to coastline cities but without the earthquakes. I found a video that explains how the Mediterranean had lost most of its water until the Atlantic Ocean broke through and fairly quickly filled the Med again. I will look for the video and paste it here.
I am interested in the true location of the "Garden of Eden". Perhaps it is somewhere in the middle of the Red Sea, or in deeper water where the guardian of the Tree of Life watches out for interlopers.

May 02, 2019
@flashgordon
This is the Zanclean Flood animation. Fascinating how Nature works. The flooding overcame the Noto ___ and swept over it down into the eastern Mediterranean.

https://www.youtu...PdwbgvM8

May 02, 2019
@flashgordon
This is the Zanclean Flood animation. Fascinating how Nature works. The flooding overcame the Noto ___ and swept over it down into the eastern Mediterranean.

https://www.youtu...PdwbgvM8


I'll just link my Gospel of Truth for you - https://wwwscient...dit.html

I'll quote one biblical quote I haven't put in; i might I guess

1 Kings 22:23 So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours.

May 02, 2019
One more biblical quote for you

Romans 3:7 ""If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"

And, there's more quotes from whoever this Paul is where he says "I lie to convert." But this is a good one!

May 02, 2019
& to paraphrase the koran
"the evildoers plots ran deep.
But allah's plots run deeper than those of sillyegghead."

idjit cant get it right in any superstition!

May 02, 2019
@flashgordon
This is the Zanclean Flood animation. Fascinating how Nature works. The flooding overcame the Noto ___ and swept over it down into the eastern Mediterranean.

https://www.youtu...PdwbgvM8

I'll quote one biblical quote I haven't put in; i might I guess

1 Kings 22:23 So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours.
says flashgordon

Nice website. I was interested in this quote:
""The former city loved its founder, and therefore believed him to be a god; the latter believed Christ to be God, and therefore loved him." This is in St Augustine's "City of God" - chapter 22-6. If you read this in Augustine's "City of God", you'll see that he's saying the Roman's believed in the tales of Romulus being raised from wolves, and that he is a god, because they were raised as Romans."
Yes, most humans have fond memories of the place where they grew up. But Christ was not the Creator God, but an

May 02, 2019
-contd-
Angel of God. This is why the ones that Christians call Jesus was misrepresented as the Creator God, but was not.

May 03, 2019
Soo... Another biblical story is about real people and that changes, um, everything. I'm not religious and most of the monotheistic god conceptions just suck/are too stupid to consider. But, when the Old Testament says something, dig there.

May 03, 2019
One more biblical quote for you

Romans 3:7 ""If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"

And, there's more quotes from whoever this Paul is where he says "I lie to convert." But this is a good one!
says flashgordon

Lying is a sin and the Creator God does't absolve anyone's lies no matter for what possible reason there is for the lie. One of the Ten Commandments is "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour". The Ten Commandments are set rules to live by. No exceptions. The word "neighbour" is not just the guy who lives in the next house, but anyone whether on the internet or in person. Bearing false witness against someone has big consequences for the one who told the lie. Satan famously lied when he offered Jesus Christ fame and fortune if he would worship Satan.
If Satan had tried that BS with the Creator God, he would have gotten a punch in the nose and other painful deterrents.

May 03, 2019
One more biblical quote for you

Romans 3:7 ""If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"
In fairness, this Trumpian/Putin/Huckabee-Sanders philosophy of strategic prevarication was something the writer of Romans was presenting to be condemned. I'm wondering though if you have something else in mind by its quotation, as the context is one of the more transparent of passages.

May 03, 2019
-contd-
@flashgordon
One more thing to let you know, flash. Satan gets into the minds of humans and uses their bodies and minds by manipulating their thoughts to say evil things and do evil actions. Satan also has his followers who are disembodied lesser spirits who also infect humans, getting into their thoughts and deeds while making humans THINK that the thought was theirs alone. You see, Satan is not allowed to leave Earth to go to other places in the Cosmos to infect any intelligent life there. He is a prisoner right here on THIS planet. This is why all that Satan can do is try to make humans do, say and think evil thoughts and worship him.
Those killings of Christians, Jews and innocent Muslims and others are the work of Satan and his lesser spirits for the purpose of building up his monstrous army for the coming war. We can't do anything to stop this war. It will come to pass and then other events will come.

May 03, 2019
One more biblical quote for you

Romans 3:7 ""If my falsehood enhances God's truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?"
In fairness, this Trumpian/Putin/Huckabee-Sanders philosophy of strategic prevarication was something the writer of Romans was presenting to be condemned. I'm wondering though if you have something else in mind by its quotation, as the context is one of the more transparent of passages.
says DanR

Don't make the mistake of including Putin in the mix. If Putin was on the side with Trump, he would NOT have sent his Russian warships to Venezuela and Cuba. Trump has already committed the US to the people of Venezuela who are fighting for their lives. The average Venezuelan has lost 80 pounds from starvation in the time that Maduro has been their dictator. Their children are starving and dying, and the food and supplies that we sent to Venezuela was prevented from being given to the people. What happens next?

May 03, 2019
I don't think you finished reading my Gospel of Truth, much less got the point of the quotes I gave you.

May 03, 2019
I don't think you finished reading my Gospel of Truth, much less got the point of the quotes I gave you.


Sorry but I didn't have the time do finish all of it. What are your points that you wish to get across. Would you give me the salient points? Thanks

May 03, 2019
I don't think you finished reading my Gospel of Truth, much less got the point of the quotes I gave you.


Sorry but I didn't have the time do finish all of it. What are your points that you wish to get across. Would you give me the salient points? Thanks


yea, you do have the time, you just refuse to face facts/logic

May 03, 2019
I don't think you finished reading my Gospel of Truth, much less got the point of the quotes I gave you.


Sorry but I didn't have the time do finish all of it. What are your points that you wish to get across. Would you give me the salient points? Thanks


yea, you do have the time, you just refuse to face facts/logic


Which facts and logic are those? I enjoy facts and logic, as long as they really are facts and logic and not lies in the guise of what I would much prefer. I'm an old hand at discerning facts and logic from a pack of lies.

May 03, 2019
Romans 3:7 King James Version (KJV)

7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?


The simple answer is that every human has the stain of sin due to the original sin that was committed by the first human couple created as homo sapiens from the clay laden with the DNA from the animals that had been created long before them.
It isn't easy to be rid of that stain of sin from your ancestors. Even believing in the Creator God and his First Son, Yahoshuah (Jesus) is not enough. No committing of any sin whatsoever in the lifetime of a human, although difficult, is the most effective way to prove oneself.

May 03, 2019
Even a 400 A.D. Bishop of Constantinople Gregorius of Nyssa noticed this type of thinking and complained,

"People swarm everywhere, talking of incomprehensible matters, in hovels, streets and square, marketplaces, and crossroads. When I ask how many oboloi I have to pay, they answer with hairsplitting arguments about the born and the unborn. If I inquire the price of bread, I am told that the father is greater than the son. I call a servant to tell me whether my bath is ready; he rejoins that the son was created out of nothing."

for more on this type of thinking displayed by religious people, see my first post about it Sophie and Silas! http://wwwscienti...las.html

Also, you might want to watch some shows about psychopaths, like Tedd Bundy, who portrayed himself as nice throughout his life, and thought he was smarter than everyone else, but would use this to lure people in to satify his violent side

May 03, 2019
for a good Tedd Bundy video documentary - https://www.youtu...7V8jJUPI

May 03, 2019
Even a 400 A.D. Bishop of Constantinople Gregorius of Nyssa noticed this type of thinking and complained,

"People swarm everywhere, talking of incomprehensible matters, in hovels, streets and square, marketplaces, and crossroads. When I ask how many oboloi I have to pay, they answer with hairsplitting arguments about the born and the unborn. If I inquire the price of bread, I am told that the father is greater than the son. I call a servant to tell me whether my bath is ready; he rejoins that the son was created out of nothing."


Evil people are good at hiding/disguising their evil intentions. Even the Catholic Church has its share of paedophile and homosexual priests and hierarchy in spite of their vows of celibacy.
As I said, the stain of original sin is already on the soul of these monsters, whether priest, rabbi, imam or other religion. A religion means nothing when the heart and soul of an evil person is black as night. They are the ones that must be avoided.

May 03, 2019
@flashgordon
Do not become fixated on the religious, as the vast majority are not evil. Even if they preach to you, you are not obligated to listen to them. Beware of the Ted Bundy's of the world and the terrorists in every religion and those of no religion.
If you concentrate too much on religions, you eventually become like them - the very thing that you wanted to avoid. And be careful lest one of those disembodied demons I spoke of earlier will get into your mind and cause you to do things unimaginable.
It's not a joke. There is nothing funny about it. You may not believe in them, but THEY BELIEVE in you and they will sneak into your thoughts quite easily. Some people who were infected that way have been diagnosed as having mental illness. Remember the woman who drowned all 5 of her children, one by one? She was obviously demonically possessed to do that to her own flesh.
I think the youngest was 2 or 3. That is why if you suspect that someone is abusing their children, tell som

May 03, 2019
The comments I've read here aptly demonstrate that Biblical archaeology and Biblical theology do not mix.

I'm going to stick with the archaeologists. Theology, while fun and interesting, is nothing on which to base one's life.

May 03, 2019
You may not believe in them, but THEY BELIEVE in you...


Straight out of the Gospel of Stephen King.

May 03, 2019
Soo... Another biblical story is about real people and that changes, um, everything. I'm not religious and most of the monotheistic god conceptions just suck/are too stupid to consider. But, when the Old Testament says something, dig there.
Yeah. I know mayor ed koch was a real person. Why? He was featured in a spiderman comic.

God teh stupid. Re stupid;

SEU
Comments:
4552
Plus/minus:
-1047 and counting

Fake gods and their fake beliievers-

Mods get rid of this vandal. Not worth the traffic-

May 03, 2019
@ otto

I thought he [Ed Koch] was a clay figure in Sundae in New York

May 03, 2019
well sillyegghead, if you were not an illiterate doper?
You would realize that the Prophet for Modern Times is George Orwell.

In this Age of Perpetually Profitable Planetary War.
The point is too keep the public frightened to extort taxes to support the manufacture & consumption of obsolete weaponry. Endlessly.

Your pimp putin & his fat whore trumpenella are laughing at your gullibility.

They are cozy safe in their disreputable bordellos.
They've both have made it clear they have total contempt for the soldiers & civilians they are happy to sacrifice for the biggley profits they are stuffing in their clutches.

As I've pointed out before sillyegghrad.
You are a voodoo priest of a sanguinary cult worshiping at the altar of mammon.

May 03, 2019
There is no other, that can convey nonsense and lies, with the magnitude of the word -- biblical.

May 03, 2019
ohh auntieoral you are such a sweetiepie distaff,
to be acknowledging
my biblically epic
awesomeness.

May 03, 2019
There is no other, that can convey nonsense and lies, with the magnitude of the word -- biblical.
says antigoracle

Apart from Genesis and the New Testament of Revelations, most of the rest of the Old Testament is a written history of the Jewish/Hebrew people. They were God's chosen people only up until they began copulating with non-Hebrews and bringing forth children who were no longer could be guaranteed to stem from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their wives from both sides. After ~400 years living in Egypt, the Hebrews were no longer "pure" in the sight of the Creator God. It was their previously 'inbred status' that had given them the 'chosen' brand that gave them a certain superiourity amongst all other nations. They lost that superiourity after marrying outside of their special status. Their Jewish religion was no longer 'holy' due to having some 'false idol worship' incorporated into it to some degree.

May 03, 2019
Israel Finkelstein and Silberman's "The Bible UnEarthed"


Oy. FWIW, the superstitious theological and myth quotes (and conspiracy theory of "codes") force me to block you for trolling.

Finkelstein is a fresh breath archaeologically. His criticizing superstition by entertaining it is not science nor interesting.

May 03, 2019
-contd-
@antigoracle

The original Hebrew religion of Abraham wasn't about slavery or conquering the Filistines and other tribes in what is now Israel. Abraham and his family got along well with the indigenous natives of the land he entered with his wife/half-sister, Sarah.
But present-day Jews are under the wrong impression that their status as the "chosen people" is still valid, and believe that their rituals and holidays are expressions of their Jewishness where there were no such expressions and rituals in the time of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Except for SOME of the Jews who never left Israel and Judah, and never mixed and married into non-Hebrew families, all others who claim to be Jewish are, in reality, Ashkenazi and other ethnicities who had converted to become Jews. There are Ashkenazi Jews whose DNA tests results prove that they have no ties with the Middle or Near East, and are not Sephardim at all.
And yet they continue in their claim to be Jews/Hebrews.

May 03, 2019
Duplicate due to edit problems:

Israel Finkelstein and Silberman's "The Bible UnEarthed"


Oy. FWIW, the superstitious theological and myth quotes (and conspiracy theory of "codes") force me to block you for trolling.

Finkelstein is a fresh breath archaeologically. His criticizing superstition by entertaining it is not science nor interesting. It is not like anyone believes in it anyway, the 21st century has seen religion being shown to be the same (self)delusion as the 20th century did with astrology. (To wit, horoscopes (1985) and intercessory prayers (2006) do not work in sufficiently blinded tests and "souls"/"afterlife" cannot exist announced by physicists (2017) based on LHC results; "star signs" and "god actions" are meaningless projections based on star distances (Hubble 1929) and cosmological system being 100 % mechanism (Planck 2018).)

May 03, 2019
-contd-
@antigoracle

The Bible of the New Testament makes it plain that those who claim to be of the 'chosen people of the Creator God" and are not will be condemned for their falsehood (paraphrasing). There will be very few that will be found to be the True Chosen. Amongst the Chosen is the Christ whose original Hebrew name was/is Yahoshuah (Joshuah) and it is HE who is destined to return to Earth as First Son who will lead the nations. The time is short and even shorter for the unbelievers whose lies and hatred for the Creator God will mark them as the enemies.
There are many religions that humans believe in and cling to, and that is fine as humans need some religiosity that validates their relevancy. But they are all sinners, just as all of YOU are sinners and are somehow not aware of it. There are NO other gods, but each of YOU have your own special gods which you worship without realising it.
The time draws closer each day and we await it with great pleasure.

May 03, 2019
You may not believe in them, but THEY BELIEVE in you...


Straight out of the Gospel of Stephen King.
says observa

I can also recite the 'Gettysburg Address' and the 'Pledge of Allegiance'. None written by Stephen King.
Your friends, Da Schnapps and rrwillsj have plagiarised some of the words which I had used in some of my own early comments - such as 'bloviate' (DS) and 'caper' (both). I found that they had copied those words into their own comments sometime later, which neither had ever done before.
I found it quite amusing and just short of 'flattery' but I wouldn't actually go that far.


May 04, 2019
After ~400 years living in Egypt


There's no evidence at all that the Hebrews lived in Egypt; there's no evidence that they escaped from Egypt; there's no evidence they wandered around for forty years; there's no evidence they conquered Canaan at the behest of a bloodthirsty god.

There is evidence for those who came to be considered the Hebrews peacefully settled the highlands that nobody else wanted.

There are some historical events in the Judeo/Christian Bible, but it can't be trusted as a record of history.

You're gleefully anticipating the suffering of others. Why is that? Were you on the losing end of fistfights with bullies as a youngster? If so, see a therapist; don't look forward to others "getting theirs."

Serious question: Where is the justice in condemning someone to an eternity of pain and suffering for crimes that are finite? For someone who is supposed to be all-powerful, your "Creator God" seems extremely neurotic.

May 04, 2019
well, sillyegghrad makes a great apologia for the Peculiar Institution of conquest, enslavement. mass rape, ethnic cleansing, & why he/she/it should be institutionalized as a public menace.

May 04, 2019
well, sillyegghrad makes a great apologia for the Peculiar Institution of conquest, enslavement. mass rape, ethnic cleansing, & why he/she/it should be institutionalized as a public menace.


I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed.

May 04, 2019
After ~400 years living in Egypt


There's no evidence at all that the Hebrews lived in Egypt; there's no evidence that they escaped from Egypt; there's no evidence they wandered around for forty years; there's no evidence they conquered Canaan at the behest of a bloodthirsty god.

There is evidence for those who came to be considered the Hebrews peacefully settled the highlands that nobody else wanted.

There are some historical events in the Judeo/Christian Bible, but it can't be trusted as a record of history.

You're gleefully anticipating the suffering of others. Why is that?

Serious question: Where is the justice in condemning someone to an eternity of pain and suffering for crimes that are finite? For someone who is supposed to be all-powerful, your "Creator God" seems extremely neurotic.


Believe as you wish. I have no intention of trying to convert you. Satan will collect your soul to join him. Your fate is none of my concern.

May 04, 2019
says observa
You're gleefully anticipating the suffering of others. Why is that? Were you on the losing end of fistfights with bullies as a youngster? If so, see a therapist; don't look forward to others "getting theirs."
- I see that you are continuing to 'project' about others what you yourself would do.
Fistfights? Bullies are easily defeated with the proper words. Again, you are projecting.
Suffering is a human emotion. I don't have to anticipate suffering, as it is all within the power of the sufferer to avoid it.

Serious question: Where is the justice in condemning someone to an eternity of pain and suffering for crimes that are finite? For someone who is supposed to be all-powerful, your "Creator God" seems extremely neurotic.
- Neuroticism is another human emotion leading into a descent. What you are ascribing to the Creator God will be visited on YOU twentyfold.
There is no such thing as a 'finite crime'. Every crime and sin will be judged accordingly.

May 04, 2019
yes, sillyegghed, you will be judged accordingly.
No matter how often you appeal with weasel words expressing your fear & hate.

May 04, 2019
Neuroticism is another human emotion leading into a descent. What you are ascribing to the Creator God will be visited on YOU twentyfold.
There is no such thing as a 'finite crime'. Every crime and sin will be judged accordingly.


In the meantime, please keep your religion out of discussions of archaeology.

That's the point I'm trying to make -- the point you keep missing.

May 04, 2019
Neuroticism is another human emotion leading into a descent. What you are ascribing to the Creator God will be visited on YOU twentyfold.
There is no such thing as a 'finite crime'. Every crime and sin will be judged accordingly.


In the meantime, please keep your religion out of discussions of archaeology.

That's the point I'm trying to make -- the point you keep missing.


What religion is that? I have no belief in manmade religion. Perhaps you ignore the part that religions are "MANMADE", and therefore the embodiment of ritualistic expression, celebration and human culture.
Exactly what point do I keep missing? You are being vague.
The article above concerns biblical archaeology. Biblical = Bible, which is to say that such archaeology digs are for the purpose of finding biblical artifacts, whether to prove or disprove what is written in the Bible.
For some reason, you seem upset. Are you afraid that what is in the Bible will prove to be true?

May 05, 2019
You're gleefully anticipating the suffering of others. Why is that? Were you on the losing end of fistfights with bullies as a youngster? If so, see a therapist; don't look forward to others "getting theirs."
But retribution is one of the most ingrained of human desires, an unfortunate byproduct of memories that last a lifetime.

These gods promise us everything we could ever want in return for accepting the notion that unbelievers cannot be good or honest or decent or trustworthy people. These promises are: all wishes granted, miracles by request, absolution of guilt, and retribution against our enemies. We all get to live forever, but believers get to do it in paradise while the ungrateful and unrepentant do it in agony.

Lifelong grudges against enemies of the tribe probably helped tribes win out over others that were more less bilious and more forgiving... another aspect of tribalism that religions are only too happy to exploit, and for the same purpose.

May 05, 2019
For some reason, you seem upset. Are you afraid that what is in the Bible will prove to be true?
Naw, he just understands just like the rest of us that hes dealing with a rather uncommon kind of troll who is only pretending to be an ignoramus.

May 05, 2019
I cannot read the blocked superstitious nutters, and there seem to be no other superstitious religious on this thread. But:

There is evidence for those who came to be considered the Hebrews peacefully settled the highlands that nobody else wanted.


"Hebrews" is not a shared ethnic group term [ https://en.wikipe.../Hebrews ]. Seems the first mentions of "Jews" arise with the Romans about 2 kyrs ago, as one of several groups inhabiting the territory in question. The first known descriptions come with the Roman-Jewish historian Josephus a century later, who refer to Herod the Great - Herod built temples for all cults and was a suitable icon - but we have little supporting evidence.

In any case, the later religious heritage was in flux 4 centuries earlier [Dead Sea Scrolls] and the first similar religions plenty supported for the time of Josephus. (And of course the particular Jewish cults he describe eventually produce myth texts as well, some 3 centuries later.)

May 05, 2019
Notably, if the 2,300 kyrs old texts are still putting down the first oral myths in a written language, the history they can get right starts there. There is no evidence with mass interaction with other cultures, so myths of Egyptians and Babylonians are wrong. The Jewish temple in Jerusalem was built for them by Herod, on an non-populated rock area that had housed a well. And so on.

Rather these pseudo-historic details tell of the syncretic influences for the myths and the politics involved in their later spread.

May 05, 2019
yes, sillyegghed, you will be judged accordingly.
No matter how often you appeal with weasel words expressing your fear & hate.
says rrwillsj

I see that you still haven't lost your ability to make comments as a certifiable nutcase - very similar to Otto. Your plagiarising my words has been noted - again. It is not too surprising that both of you have gravitated to a science website where you can spill your filth, venom and lack of science knowledge. And some here are truly impressed with both of you, as though you were destined for the Nobel Prize for talking crapola.

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