Do volcanoes or an asteroid deserve blame for dinosaur extinction?

February 21, 2019, University of California - Berkeley
Layered lava flows within the Wai Subgroup from near Ambenali Ghat, Western Ghats. Credit: Courtney Sprain

UC Berkeley scientists have obtained more precise dates for the Deccan Traps volcanic lava flows, linking peak activity more closely to the asteroid or comet impact 66 million years ago and the coincident mass extinction. But if greenhouse gases emitted before the impact created a hothouse climate that set life up for a fall when the impact cooled the planet, those gases did not coincide with the largest lava flows from the Deccan Traps.

Based on new data published today in the journal Science, it seems increasingly likely that an asteroid or 66 million years ago reignited in India, half a world away from the site in the Caribbean Sea.

But it leaves unclear to what degree the two catastrophes contributed to the near-simultaneous mass extinction that killed off the dinosaurs and many other forms of life.

The research sheds light on huge lava flows that have erupted periodically over Earth's history, and how they have affected the atmosphere and altered the course of life on the planet.

In the study, University of California, Berkeley, scientists report the most precise and accurate dates yet for the intense volcanic eruptions in India that coincided with the worldwide extinction at the end of the Cretaceous Period, the so-called K-Pg boundary. The million-year sequence of eruptions spewed lava flows for distances of at least 500 kilometers across the Indian continent, creating the so-called Deccan Traps flood basalts that in some places are nearly 2 kilometers thick.

"Now that we have dated Deccan Traps lava flows in more and different locations, we see that the transition seems to be the same everywhere. I would say, with pretty high confidence, that the eruptions occurred within 50,000 years, and maybe 30,000 years, of the impact, which means they were synchronous within the margin of error," said Paul Renne, a professor-in-residence of earth and planetary science at UC Berkeley, director of the Berkeley Geochronology Center and senior author of the study, which will appear online Feb. 21. "That is an important validation of the hypothesis that the impact renewed lava flows."

The new dates also confirm earlier estimates that the lava flows continued for about a million years, but contain a surprise: three-quarters of the lava erupted after the impact. Previous studies suggested that about 80 percent of the lava erupted before the impact.

If most of the Deccan Traps lava had erupted before the impact, then gases emitted during the eruptions could have been the cause of global warming within the last 400,000 years of the Cretaceous Period, during which temperatures increased, on average, about 8 degrees Celsius (14.4 degrees Fahrenheit). During this period of warming, species would have evolved suited to hothouse conditions, only to be confronted by global cooling from the dust or by climate cooling gases caused by either the impact or the volcanos.

Map outlining exposed areas of the Deccan Traps in modern day India. Credit: Courtney Sprain

The cold would have been a shock from which most creatures would never have recovered, disappearing entirely from the fossil record: literally, a mass extinction.

But if most of the Deccan Traps lava emerged after the impact, this scenario needs rethinking.

"This changes our perspective on the role of the Deccan Traps in the K-Pg extinction," said first author Courtney Sprain, a former UC Berkeley doctoral student who is now a postdoc at the University of Liverpool in the United Kingdom. "Either the Deccan eruptions did not play a role—which we think unlikely—or a lot of climate-modifying gases were erupted during the lowest volume pulse of the eruptions."

The hypothesis that climate-altering volcanic gases leak out of underground magma chambers frequently, and not just during eruptions, is supported by evidence from present-day volcanos, such as those of the gas-spewing Mt. Etna in Italy and Popocatepetl in Mexico, the researchers said. Magma stewing below the surface is known to transmit gases to the atmosphere, even without eruptions.

"We are suggesting that it is very likely that a lot of the gases that come from magma systems precede eruptions; they don't necessarily correlate with eruptions," Renne said. In the case of the K-Pg extinction, the symptoms of significant climate change occurred before the peak in volcanic eruptions.

Flood basalts

Renne, Sprain and their colleagues are using a precise dating method, argon-argon dating, to determine when the impact occurred and when the Deccan Traps erupted to clarify the sequence of catastrophes at the end of the Cretaceous Period and beginning of the Tertiary Period—the K-Pg boundary, formerly referred to as the K-T boundary.

Lead author Courtney Sprain standing in front of an inflated sheet lobe in the Jawhar Formation in a quarry north of Mumbai, India. Credit: Loy?c Vanderkluysen

In 2013, using rocks from Montana, they obtained the most precise date yet for the impact, and in 2018, they updated that to 66,052,000 years ago, give or take 8,000 years. Then, in 2015, they determined from a handful of samples in India that, in at least one spot, the peak of the Deccan Traps eruptions occurred within about 50,000 years of that date, which means, in geologic time, that the incidents were basically simultaneous.

Now, with three times more rock samples from areas covering more of the Deccan Traps, the researchers have established that the time of peak eruptions was the same across much of the Indian continent. This supports the group's hypothesis that the asteroid impact triggered super-earthquakes that caused a strong burst of volcanism in India, which is almost directly opposite the impact site, the Chicxulub crater in the Caribbean Sea.

Sprain and Renne argue that the coincident catastrophes likely delivered a one-two punch to life on Earth, but the details are unclear. Volcanic eruptions produce lots of gases, but some, like carbon dioxide and methane, warm the planet, while others, like sulfur aerosols, are cooling. The impact itself would have sent dust into the atmosphere that blocked sunlight and cooled the Earth, though no one knows for how long.

"Both the impact and Deccan volcanism can produce similar environmental effects, but these are occurring on vastly differing timescales," Sprain said. "Therefore, to understand how each agent contributed to the extinction event, assessing timing is key."

Which gases in the Deccan Traps are emitted when is a question that's hard to answer, because there are no flood basalt eruptions going on today, despite numerous ones in Earth's history. The most recent, near the Columbia River in the Pacific Northwest, dwindled 15 million years ago after 400,000 years of eruptions.

The paucity of information about flood basalts is one reason Renne and Sprain are interested in the Deccan Traps, which are still young enough to contain information about the sequence, effects and scale of the eruptions, and perhaps the cause.

"It makes we wonder whether we may see some external forcing mechanism, like the impact for the Deccan Traps, for other flood basalts that lead up to major peaks in eruptions, like the Columbia River basalts or the Siberian Traps," Renne said. "Could a major earthquake in nearby subduction zones or the accumulation of pressure due to rising magma unleash these major episodes in flood basalts?"

Sprain noted that, in the same issue of Science, a research group at Princeton University also will publish new dates related to the Deccan Traps, some of which differ from those of the Berkeley group. Whereas the Berkeley group dated the mineral plagioclase from the actual lava flows, the Princeton group dated zircons in the sediment deposited between flows. Because it's unclear where the zircons came from, however, those dates provide only a maximum age for the , she said.

Explore further: Did dinosaur-killing asteroid trigger largest lava flows on Earth?

More information: C.J. Sprain el al., "The eruptive tempo of Deccan volcanism in relation to the Cretaceous-Paleogene boundary," Science (2019). science.sciencemag.org/cgi/doi … 1126/science.aav1446

B. Schoene el al., "U-Pb constraints on pulsed eruption of the Deccan Traps across the end-Cretaceous mass extinction," Science (2019). science.sciencemag.org/cgi/doi … 1126/science.aau2422

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Parsec
3.9 / 5 (8) Feb 21, 2019
The kind of global cooling happening immediately after a huge impact are caused by enormous quantities of dust in the atmosphere and would have not lasted more than a few decades or centuries. It is entirely probable that the cooling shock right after the impact killed off a majority of species, and then the global warming that happened over the next few million years due to CO2 releases from the vast lava fields was a kind of one-two punch that caused widespread devastation. Given this, trying to determine which one was responsible for the extinction event is silly. The answer is both.
Da Schneib
4.3 / 5 (6) Feb 21, 2019
Hmmm. Getting the sequence right is actually pretty important.
antigoracle
2.7 / 5 (7) Feb 21, 2019
Hmmm. Getting the sequence right is actually pretty important.

That's what "she" said.
Obviously, your boyfriend is not listening to you, or else he would have hit your "sweet spot" by now.
LMAO.
rrwillsj
2 / 5 (4) Feb 21, 2019
Well of course determining the correct sequence is important.
Whatever is carved on the tombstone cannot be corrected.

I wonder what the giant cockroaches of the future will carve onto Humanity's memorial?

For the dinosaurs?
I would suggest
"They were caught between a rock & a hot place"

Maybe for Humans?
"Their hubris got their dogma run over by well deserved karma"
AllStBob
2.7 / 5 (3) Feb 21, 2019
The problem with these dating methods which while generally accurate is they do not agree precisely within the accuracy quoted. Think of the various attempts to measure Hubble's constant. It suggests the scientists haven't accurately modelled the real world conditions the samples are taken from and the errors are wider than quoted.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (2) Feb 22, 2019
Given this, trying to determine which one was responsible for the extinction event is silly
Ha no what's silly is rank amateurs like yourself thinking they know more about the science than the actual scientists who have spent years and decades analyzing the evidence before reaching their conclusions.

That kind of ignorance and disrespect always makes me a little sick.
Nik_2213
3 / 5 (3) Feb 22, 2019
@ASB: True, but should encourage more investigation...

IIRC, Siberian Traps' initial impact was worse because 'plume' rose through a thick carboniferous layer, de-gasifying that...

A scenario where pre-Yucatan's mega-impact 'fracked' on-going, near-antipodal volcanism in the Deccan region unto 'YIKES' is a tad unsettling...

Although impactor local effects were dire, they'd wash out. A 'flood basalt' series just keeps giving and giving...
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
4.3 / 5 (3) Feb 22, 2019
I note that the main fringe that contests the well tested layer-correlated Alvarez hypothesis is represented in at least one of those papers (the principal Gerta Keller herself; https://en.wikipe...a_Keller ), and it is the one that observes pulses. It will be interesting to see if and how geoscientists welcome these papers.

And on the main I would think that observing the trap outflows before and after would detract from it rivaling the impact in causation.

@Nik: The deep waves would not travel through the corem the surface waves would be quickly dampened as today, so the pop science idea of antipodal volcanism goes nowhere.
torbjorn_b_g_larsson
4 / 5 (2) Feb 22, 2019
Meanwhile another of the large mass extinctions/climate episodes have been tied to an igneous province. The Snowball Earth Gaskier glaciation that may have paved the way for the Ediacaran fauna could have been caused by a superplume that rifted the Rodinian supercontinent into parts that would become Mexico, North America and northern Europe [ https://www.scien...2240.htm , https://agupubs.o...GL079976 ].

Seems to me the igneous provinces could have been similarly sized at ~ 10^6 km^2 (but of course the rifting of the continent changed the circulation patterns too).
rrwillsj
1 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
torbjorn, your comment made ne wonder?
(t_b_g_l groans "Oh what the hellene now!)
The Earth's percentage of radioactive elements. Would have still been very radioactive, way back when.
Has there been any attempt to define how toxic-radioactive content been when released with the traps & volcanic eruptions during each geologically active intervals?

To add yet another possible extra-suckerpunch to a mix of simultaneous catastrophe?
rrwillsj
1 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
AllStBob, considering the few, primitive itools Science started with?
Inventors have made real progress in the quality of data modern instruments can collect.

Are you declining today's data because it fails to meet your expectation of perfection?

Or do you object to the data itself when it refuses to support your concept of the World?

There is no perfect available.
Try to get an assembly of multi-discipline Scientists to agree on what "temperature" is & how to measure it correctly. For every possible use? Good luck on that laughriot!
& I would emphasis "riot".

Remember the recent controversy to define Pluto as a planet or a dwarf-planet?
A whole lot of barking & woo-squirrels up the tree chattering their outrage.

Defining temperature to a single scale for all possibilities?
When actually for common use, smell by trained practitioners would be the most accurate & predictive means of measurement.
Every sub-specialty has their own scale & specialized tools.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 22, 2019
More evidence of a catastrophe cycle, the Sun is not at all as stable we would hope.
https://www.youtu...3APVS8br

jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
More evidence of a catastrophe cycle, the Sun is not at all as stable we would hope.
https://www.youtu...3APVS8br



Lol! Suspicious observers! Isn't that the idiot Michael Suede? A total fruitloop.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (2) Feb 22, 2019
More evidence of a catastrophe cycle, the Sun is not at all as stable we would hope.
https://www.youtu...3APVS8br



Lol! Suspicious observers! Isn't that the idiot Michael Suede? A total fruitloop.


Nope, I think he is a completely different crackpot, on review. Still a bunch of loons, though.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 22, 2019
Lol! Suspicious observers! Isn't that the idiot Michael Suede? A total fruitloop.

You don't know anything about anything, do you jonesdumb? What else are ya gonna pull out of your backside, other than your brain of course?
SO is Ben Davidson, author of 'The Weatherman's Guide to the Sun'. One of the foremost debunkers of AGW pseudoscience.
jonesdave
not rated yet Feb 22, 2019
Lol! Suspicious observers! Isn't that the idiot Michael Suede? A total fruitloop.

You don't know anything about anything, do you jonesdumb? What else are ya gonna pull out of your backside, other than your brain of course?
SO is Ben Davidson, author of 'The Weatherman's Guide to the Sun'. One of the foremost debunkers of AGW pseudoscience.


Davidson is another fruitloop. A total arse. And I am never going to pull anything out of my arse that could compete with Earth orbiting Saturn! Lol. Back to Velikovsky for you. Off you go, woo boy.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 22, 2019
Ben Davidson is also author of a couple papers discussing the forecasting of earthquakes. His method shows between 70-80% accuracy by looking for electrical precursors among other pre-seismic evidence.
Maybe one day someone will figure out a way to use GR to predict earthquakes....
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
Ben Davidson is also author of a couple papers discussing the forecasting of earthquakes. His method shows between 70-80% accuracy by looking for electrical precursors among other pre-seismic evidence.
Maybe one day someone will figure out a way to use GR to predict earthquakes....


Nope, he is a scientifically illiterate tosser. Never studied science. Cons the gullible with his idiocy.

http://whac-a-tro...and.html

There was a huge thread on this at ISF. I came up with an hypothesis that my eating of bacon sandwiches for brekkie could be used to forecast earthquakes. I successfully predicted one! Difference is, I understand chance and probability, and Davidson's clueless followers don't. He is a fraud. He appeals only to the left-hand end of the IQ bell curve.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 22, 2019
I successfully predicted one!

No, that was gas from eating swine.
There was a huge thread on this at ISF.

Science by public opinion, no doubt you have such a skewed worldview. Probably why you thought your hypothesis was valid.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
I successfully predicted one!

No, that was gas from eating swine.
There was a huge thread on this at ISF.

Science by public opinion, no doubt you have such a skewed worldview. Probably why you thought your hypothesis was valid.


It wasn't valid you twat. I took the time to research how often earthquakes of a certain magnitude occurred. and then figured I could make a joke post predicting one based on having bacon sandwiches in the morning. Merely to show the EU tosspot who started the thread that he was being conned due to being innumerate. He no longer posts there.
jonesdave
not rated yet Feb 22, 2019
cantdrive85
3 / 5 (4) Feb 22, 2019
I took the time to research how often earthquakes of a certain magnitude occurred.

That's funny, elementary school students are using the method to win national science contests. Not surprisingly you don't get it.
then figured I could make a joke post predicting one based on having bacon sandwiches in the morning.

Undoubtedly a joke, but it was your hypothesis and you obviously tested it. Or are you lying now?
He no longer posts there.

Probably banned for not being a slavish tool of the standard guesswork.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
That's funny, elementary school students are using the method to win national science contests. Not surprisingly you don't get it.


Davidson's shit? No chance. Unless it's in America.

Undoubtedly a joke, but it was your hypothesis and you obviously tested it. Or are you lying now?


No lying. Links provided.

Probably banned for not being a slavish tool of the standard guesswork.


Nope. Still not banned. Neither is David Talbott. He hasn't been back since his fateful predictions in late 2014 re comet 67P. Nothing stopping the loon coming back. Other than embarrassment. They all suffer from the same affliction - scientific illiteracy.

cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 22, 2019
http://www.intern...ount=929

http://www.intern...ount=933

Piece of cake. Or bacon :)


Science by public opinion then? If you eat swine everyday maybe you too can achieve 80% accuracy.
BTW, is that why you post here? Got banned for your vulgar meatheadedness?
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
http://www.intern...ount=929

http://www.intern...ount=933

Piece of cake. Or bacon :)


Science by public opinion then? If you eat swine everyday maybe you too can achieve 80% accuracy.
BTW, is that why you post here? Got banned for your vulgar meatheadedness?


Nope, still posting there. Still showing up EUists as fraudulent cockwombles.

(Bloody spellchecker; just has to add cockwomble to dictionary!)
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
Davidson is a con artist. He takes advantage of people's scientific illiteracy. And anybody that believes Earth used to orbit Saturn is scientifically illiterate.
cantdrive85
3 / 5 (4) Feb 22, 2019
Davidson is a con artist. He takes advantage of people's scientific illiteracy. And anybody that believes Earth used to orbit Saturn is scientifically illiterate.

Davidson doesn't agree with the Saturnian POV, just look to the proposal of the Earth Catastrophe Cycle. That said, real scientists don't lock themselves in myopic one-dimensional boxes as you do.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
Davidson is a con artist. He takes advantage of people's scientific illiteracy. And anybody that believes Earth used to orbit Saturn is scientifically illiterate.

Davidson doesn't agree with the Saturnian POV, just look to the proposal of the Earth Catastrophe Cycle. That said, real scientists don't lock themselves in myopic one-dimensional boxes as you do.


Lol. He isn't a scientist. He is a f***ing lawyer. Never studied science. Only con artistry. A total twat.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 22, 2019
To add to the above;

Thornhill isn't a scientist.
Talbott isn't a scientist.
Scott is a retired EE. You want to call that twat a scientist? Lol.

You have no scientists.
Nik_2213
5 / 5 (2) Feb 22, 2019
@TGBL: Although simulations in ~2011 suggested max antipodal local displacements of ~ 4 metres, a 2015 article reported significant mineralogical differences in Trap layers erupted 'before' and 'after' the iridium layer. The later ones were less 'evolved', had risen from a greater depth more rapidly.
Okay, One take is the Deccan's plume had finally, finally 'cleared its throat' of old stuff. Other take is it had help, literally a 'kick up the backside'...
As ever, correlation does not imply causation, and due care required.
I'd agree that modelling the effects of an angled mega-impact on a distant plume of uncertain dimensions is non-trivial, with many, poorly-constrained 'degrees of freedom'. Even the differential response of plume vs surrounds seems unknown. 'Forced Harmonic Tremor' ??
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 22, 2019
You have no scientists.

Birkeland, scientist
Alfvén, scientist
Langmuir, scientist
Bennett, scientist
Arp, scientist
Charles Bruce, scientist
Carl Fälthammar, scientist
Peratt, scientist
Akasofu, scientist
Lerner, scientist
Gerrit Verschuur, scientist
Per Carlqvist, scientist
Göran Marklund, scientist

This is a small sampling of the scientists which developed the foundation and expanded upon concepts of plasma and electric cosmology. Every one produced peer-reviewed material that is relevant to EU/PC. Thornhill has been published, Scott has been published, what about you jonesdumb? Is an anthropologist a scientist, are you a scientist jonesdumb? I think not.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
You have no scientists.

Birkeland, scientist
Alfvén, scientist
Langmuir, scientist
Bennett, scientist
Arp, scientist
Charles Bruce, scientist
Carl Fälthammar, scientist
Peratt, scientist
Akasofu, scientist
Lerner, scientist
Gerrit Verschuur, scientist
Per Carlqvist, scientist
Göran Marklund, scientist

This is a small sampling of the scientists which developed the foundation and expanded upon concepts of plasma and electric cosmology. Every one produced peer-reviewed material that is relevant to EU/PC. Thornhill has been published, Scott has been published, what about you jonesdumb? Is an anthropologist a scientist, are you a scientist jonesdumb? I think not.


Nope. Not a single one of them believed in EU rubbish. Not one. Alfven stated that the Sun is powered by fusion. Do you agree with him?
And Scott and Thornhill have only been published in crank and/ or irrelevant journals. Thornhill is not even a scientist.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
Lerner; never got a PhD. A non-event in the scientific community.
Akasofu; accepts MRx.
Falthammar; accepts MRx.
Verschuur; just plain wrong.
Arp; ditto
Bruce; who?
Peratt; accepts the Sun is powered by fusion.

And some of those scientists were dead before EU had even been invented, and none have endorsed it. Due to it not being science.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
You are a moron and are incapable of even understanding a couple of sentences. Where did I say anyone endorsed anything, I said they "developed the foundation and expanded upon concepts of plasma and electric cosmology", then you respond with your typical lies and obfuscation. How do you live with yourself? Oh right, people like Jussie are your heros so you emulate them.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (2) Feb 23, 2019
You are a moron and are incapable of even understanding a couple of sentences. Where did I say anyone endorsed anything, I said they "developed the foundation and expanded upon concepts of plasma and electric cosmology", then you respond with your typical lies and obfuscation. How do you live with yourself? Oh right, people like Jussie are your heros so you emulate them.


You seem to forget that PC is dead. Has been for decades. It failed. EU is just a more bizarre variant of that failure. And has little, if anything. to do with science. At least PC didn't embrace idiots like Velikovsky or Juergens.
cantdrive85
3 / 5 (4) Feb 23, 2019
And there are thousands, if not tens of thousands who claim to be scientists. They search for faerie dust and pontificate fanciful about dancing leprechauns and unicorn waves. They are the opposite of scientists, they are simple minded non-thinkers expounding upon your Einsteinian pseudoscientific maths claptrap. They are the reason why the real scientist Lerner didn't get a PhD, they are a joke. Lerner does real science in his lab, he is a real scientist regardless of his degrees and certifications. In fact, it is a feather in the cap if one scoffed at and dropped out of university to get away from your pseudoscientific heros.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
You seem to forget that PC is dead. Has been for decades. It failed.

You continue with your lies Jussie, one of these days you will tell a big enough one to end in jail too.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (2) Feb 23, 2019
And there are thousands, if not tens of thousands who claim to be scientists. They search for faerie dust and pontificate fanciful about dancing leprechauns and unicorn waves. They are the opposite of scientists, they are simple minded non-thinkers expounding upon your Einsteinian pseudoscientific maths claptrap. They are the reason why the real scientist Lerner didn't get a PhD, they are a joke. Lerner does real science in his lab, he is a real scientist regardless of his degrees and certifications. In fact, it is a feather in the cap if one scoffed at and dropped out of university to get away from your pseudoscientific heros.


Blah blah blah. Just more anti-science word salad. You have nothing. Not a single hypothesis to explain anything you whine about. You rely on the unscientific crap produced by idiots like Scott and Thornhill. They are an irrelevance. EU is an irrelevance.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (2) Feb 23, 2019
You seem to forget that PC is dead. Has been for decades. It failed.

You continue with your lies Jussie, one of these days you will tell a big enough one to end in jail too.


Lol. PC is dead. Who have you got? Where are the young up and coming scientists to replace the dead or ageing proponents? Few as they are. Nope, it is history.
cantdrive85
3 / 5 (4) Feb 23, 2019
Where are the young up and coming scientists to replace the dead or ageing proponents? Few as they are. Nope, it is history.

They have been systematically removed from academia, no thinkers allowed. See Lerner.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (2) Feb 23, 2019
Where are the young up and coming scientists to replace the dead or ageing proponents? Few as they are. Nope, it is history.

They have been systematically removed from academia, no thinkers allowed. See Lerner.


Lol. More conspiracist bollocks. Lerner removed himself. He is an irrelevance.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
Lerner removed himself.

Yep, that is what I said. He knew he was surrounded by pseudoscientific hacks and realized those three little letters, PhD, are meaningless socio-political labels.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
Lerner removed himself.

Yep, that is what I said. He knew he was surrounded by pseudoscientific hacks and realized those three little letters, PhD, are meaningless socio-political labels.


No, you said the up and coming replacements for these dead and ageing proponents "have been systematically removed from academia."

Names, please.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
Lerner removed himself.

Yep, that is what I said. He knew he was surrounded by pseudoscientific hacks and realized those three little letters, PhD, are meaningless socio-political labels.


So he dropped out to come up with idiocy. In other words, AGNs are plasmoids, and the universe is static, explained by tired light! Hope he thinks it was worth it. Nobody else does.
cantdrive85
3 / 5 (4) Feb 23, 2019
So he dropped out to come up with idiocy. In other words, AGNs are plasmoids, and the universe is static, explained by tired light! Hope he thinks it was worth it.

Yep, he looks to be just fine using real physics to do real science;

https://lppfusion.com
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
So he dropped out to come up with idiocy. In other words, AGNs are plasmoids, and the universe is static, explained by tired light! Hope he thinks it was worth it.

Yep, he looks to be just fine using real physics to do real science;

https://lppfusion.com


Which appears to be going nowhere, and is only around due to crowdfunding.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
Which appears to be going nowhere, and is only around due to crowdfunding

I will commend you jonesdumb, on your consistency of willful ignorance. Or lies? Then again, most certainly both.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
Which appears to be going nowhere, and is only around due to crowdfunding

I will commend you jonesdumb, on your consistency of willful ignorance. Or lies? Then again, most certainly both.


The truth, as usual;

https://www.indie...rld--3#/
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
For anybody interested, there was a thread on ISF a few years ago on Eric Lerner's Focus Fusion, in which he participated. He has also appeared on other threads on there. He should be commended for that, at least.

http://www.intern...t=279949

That is the sort of thing EU head honchos would run a mile from. With the exception of David Talbott, who made a brief appearance on the Electric Comet thread, early in the Rosetta mission. He finished off by making a bunch of 'predictions'. Trust me, they did not turn out well, and he has never been back since!

cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
The truth, as usual;

https://www.indie...rld--3#/

The $200k or so is a fraction of the $3+mil investment in LPP, which you claim "is only around due to crowdfunding (sic)". I've been Jussie'd. Poor attempt at a setup!
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
The truth, as usual;

https://www.indie...rld--3#/

The $200k or so is a fraction of the $3+mil investment in LPP, which you claim "is only around due to crowdfunding (sic)". I've been Jussie'd. Poor attempt at a setup!


It is. That is how it started. Hell, you should see the industrial scale scamming of Randell Mills and Brilliant Light Power, if you want to see a real pro at work! And all based on a physically impossible mechanism! I don't think Lerner is running a scam, but I do think he is wasting his time. The claims seem to be overblown, and they are miles away from any sort of product.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
That is how it started.

LOL! LPP is a privately held corporation with operations of well over a decade. Private investment buy "sophisticated investors" (per SEC rules and regs) is how the company started. Crowd funding is very recent, within the last few years at most. Another Jussie attempt. I guess that's why you are up on the scammsters such as Mills.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
Buy=by, been autospell'd!

jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
The truth, as usual;

https://www.indie...rld--3#/

The $200k or so is a fraction of the $3+mil investment in LPP, which you claim "is only around due to crowdfunding (sic)". I've been Jussie'd. Poor attempt at a setup!


It ain't 200K. It's $1m.

https://www.indie...ates/all

Without which they couldn't move forward.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
But I thought it "is how it was started?" Which is it?

And I am not sure if you bother checking your own link, but it says right there $180k.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
But I thought it "is how it was started?" Which is it?

And I am not sure if you bother checking your own link, but it says right there $180k.


And it says in the updates, blind boy, $1m. Click on 'Read More'. Maybe they were doing this on more than one site.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
Maybe they were doing this on more than one site.

Apples and oranges. Indigogo is crowd funding, wefunder is investing.

https://help.wefunder.com
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
Maybe they were doing this on more than one site.

Apples and oranges. Indigogo is crowd funding, wefunder is investing.

https://help.wefunder.com


Still nowhere near a product. And obviously not going to be in Lerner's lifetime, If they have to keep begging for money. I hope you haven't been dumb enough to put money in this.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 23, 2019
If they have to keep begging for money

You know who else had to beg for money? Steve Jobs so he could make an ipod. Lerner has a different goal;
To achieve the future we want for ourselves and our children, we must replace fossil fuels with a cheap, clean, safe, and unlimited energy source. Our small, decentralized 5 MW generators will use hydrogen and boron fuel, both of which are essentially unlimited in nature, to allow a direct conversion of energy to electricity without expensive turbines or radioactive waste. The cost will be 10 times cheaper than any existing energy source, meaning our Focus Fusion technology can change the world.


jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 23, 2019
If they have to keep begging for money

You know who else had to beg for money? Steve Jobs so he could make an ipod. Lerner has a different goal;
To achieve the future we want for ourselves and our children, we must replace fossil fuels with a cheap, clean, safe, and unlimited energy source. Our small, decentralized 5 MW generators will use hydrogen and boron fuel, both of which are essentially unlimited in nature, to allow a direct conversion of energy to electricity without expensive turbines or radioactive waste. The cost will be 10 times cheaper than any existing energy source, meaning our Focus Fusion technology can change the world.




Lol. Starting to sound like a scam to me! He has 1/ 10 000th of the necessary power. Anyways, couldn't care less. Lerner is an irrelevance. Just one more crank amongst many. Mills is raising more money, based on hydrogen having a lower state than its ground state! People are gullible.
cantdrive85
3 / 5 (4) Feb 23, 2019
People are gullible.

Without a doubt, some justify wasting billions of $ searching for faerie dust. If 1% of that sum was used on real science we'd likely have working fusion generators.
jonesdave
5 / 5 (1) Feb 24, 2019
People are gullible.

Without a doubt, some justify wasting billions of $ searching for faerie dust. If 1% of that sum was used on real science we'd likely have working fusion generators.


Plenty of funding for fusion. Universities/ governments tend not to give it to cranks like Lerner.
cantdrive85
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 24, 2019
Plenty of funding for fusion

Really? Seas are rising, plant food levels exploding, a green new fraud being proposed yet billions of dollars are being spent in the search for faerie dust and unicorn farts. Typical logic of darkist acolytes.
jonesdave
Feb 24, 2019
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