Trump idea on regulating Google 'unfathomable'

Google says it does not use political ideology to determine its search rankings
Google says it does not use political ideology to determine its search rankings
His attacks on Google drew headlines, but President Donald Trump would face an impossible task if his administration tried to regulate the leading internet search engine and its news results.

Legal and media experts say Google and other internet firms enjoy the same constitutional protections on free speech as news outlets, precluding any government interference with the search results that displease the president.

"Each search engine's editorial judgment is much like many other familiar editorial judgments," said Eugene Volokh, a University of California-Los Angeles law professor and author of a 2012 white paper on the constitutional First Amendment protection of search engines.

Volokh said in a blog post on Reason.com after Trump's remarks that algorithms developed by Google and others are "editorial judgments about what users are likely to find interesting and valuable. And all these exercises of editorial judgment are fully protected by the First Amendment."

Eric Goldman, co-director of the High-Tech Law Institute at Santa Clara University, said there is ample legal precedent for Google's free-speech rights.

"Search engines fully qualify for First Amendment protections for their search results. Numerous cases going back over 15 years have confirmed this," Goldman said.

"Any effort by Trump to 'fix' search engine results will violate the First Amendment. It's not even a close question."

Trump's threat

Trump's comments however stoked debate on the question when he assailed Google for what he termed "rigged" results that hide news from conservative outlets and promote content from what he called "left-wing" media.

US President Donald Trump has said his administration would seek to act on what he claimed was bias by big internet firms
US President Donald Trump has said his administration would seek to act on what he claimed was bias by big internet firms

Google countered the remarks by saying that "search is not used to set a political agenda and we don't bias our results toward any political ideology."

The president's comments follow criticism from Republican lawmakers including House majority leader Kevin McCarthy who claimed that "conservatives are too often finding their voices silenced" on online platforms.

Trump on Tuesday issued an unspecified warning to tech firms, presumably related to his claims that they suppress conservative views.

He repeated his claim on Wednesday, saying big tech firms "treat conservatives and Republicans very unfairly," but stopped short of calling for regulation.

"You know what we want? Not regulation, we want fairness," he told reporters.

Using the hashtag #StopTheBias, Trump later posted on Twitter what was purported to be a series of screen grabs that showed Google's home page promoted State of the Union addresses by former president Barack Obama but stopped when he took office.

Google said the video was factually incorrect, adding that "on January 30, 2018, we highlighted the livestream of President Trump's State of the Union on the google.com homepage," and screenshots circulated online appeared to confirm that.

Don't regulate every interaction

There is little evidence to show algorithms by online firms are based on politics, and many conservatives—including Trump himself—have large social media followings.

President Donald Trump this week issued an unspecified warning to Google, Facebook and Twitter to "be careful," presum
President Donald Trump this week issued an unspecified warning to Google, Facebook and Twitter to "be careful," presumably related to his claim that they suppress conservative voices

Analysts say it would be dangerous to try to regulate how search engines work to please a government or political faction.

"Google is a private company with its own algorithms and the government has absolutely no control in how it conducts business," said Ken Paulson, former USA Today editor who heads the Newseum's First Amendment Center and is dean of communications at Middle Tennessee State University.

"The broader threat to First Amendment freedoms comes when the most powerful man in the world repeatedly says that you can only trust him, not news organizations or the search engines that deliver their coverage."

But even without constitutional protection, the idea of regulating billions of Google searches would be an impossible task.

"We deliberately don't regulate every interaction in the economy because we know it's unfathomable," said David Balto, a former Federal Trade Commission and Justice Department enforcement lawyer.

Balto maintained that Trump's suggestion "is an Orwellian concept that might fit well in '1984' but is totally inconsistent with our tenets of democracy."

Other analysts say the Trump comments are merely an attempt to rally his base and raise doubts about news organizations investigating him.

"Authoritarian regimes would love to have that power over search engines," said Ed Black, president and CEO of the Computer and Communications Industry Association, a trade group that includes Google and Facebook.

"The US government should be an advocate against this type of censorship."


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Trump says Google is 'rigged' with bad news about him

© 2018 AFP

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Aug 30, 2018
What a pathetic article. Trump is gonna take down fascist Google they way he destroyed fake news CNN. And you Socialist losers can watch and learn.

Aug 30, 2018
Single-handedly Trump is disassembling the US Deep State. He is a very brave man who is putting the US ahead of personal gain. Our federal legal system has been turned into the KGB and the Left ( including some RINOs )could not be happier about this.

Aug 30, 2018
they way he destroyed fake news CNN.

Sooo...he isn't going to do it at all?

(When and how exactly was CNN 'destroyed'? I must have missed that)

Aug 30, 2018
"Legal and media experts say Google and other internet firms enjoy the same constitutional protections on free speech as news outlets, precluding any government interference"

Soviet legal and media experts demanded the same protections for politburo and TASS. They also enjoyed exclusive control of who heard what from whom.

Cue the silly trump picture. Lies dont have to be just words, da? Nyet?

Silly 2d socialists dont realize that the MAJORITY of Americans see a pic like that and conclude the rest of the article is all lies.

Keep it up.

Aug 30, 2018
When and how exactly was CNN 'destroyed'? I must have missed that
Of course you missed that.

"Nielsen Media Research reports that perennial ratings loser CNN had a terrible August despite a banner news month, reports the Hill.

"While Fox News notched its 200th consecutive month at number one in cable news and gained in primetime viewers (when compared to this same month last year), CNN lost -12 percent of its primetime viewers and a whopping -15 percent of total day viewers."

"In all of basic cable, Fox was again number one (for the 26th consecutive month), MSNBC was second. CNN, however, came in sixth, behind Fox, MSNBC, HGTV, USA, and the History Channel."

-Not dead perhaps, just really, really sick.

Aug 30, 2018
CNN latest lie

"Cohen lawyer Lanny Davis, now admits that, in essence, his "confirmation" was false. As a result, both the Washington Post and the NY Post outed Davis as their anonymous source and then effectively retracted their stories "confirming" parts of CNN's report... CNN, however, has retracted nothing. All inquiries to the network are directed to a corporate spokesperson, who simply says: "We stand by our story, and are confident in our reporting of it."

-They smell.

Aug 30, 2018
I want to see the orange man in an orange jumpsuit and a prison haircut.

He thinks he is Henry IX, but he is just anther failed fool heading for the exits to prison.

Trump did us all a favor by getting the chronic malcontents, the perverts, the haters, the racists, the bigots to come out of their holes and identify themselves. I think God may send some more terrible tornadoes to the Bible Belt after this.

Aug 30, 2018
The Deep State is staging a 3rd world coup against our elected president. The liberals are overjoyed by this not caring that the rule of law is being destroyed in the process. Being totally ignorant of recent history, they don't remember the WWII saying " First they came for them and then they came for me." The Deep State is not your friend!

Aug 30, 2018
The Deep State is staging a 3rd world coup against our elected president
Have no fear MR - your god is on the side of Trump (or is it the other way round) - https://www.polit...t-216537

And if God is for us, who can be against us? Or do you not believe your own propaganda??and you fear that man will outwit your god (who is supposed to be the supreme, all knowing, all powerful creator of the everything.)

What a bunch of head bangers...

Aug 31, 2018
Onions I cannot believe that you have absolutely no respect for the principles upon which this country was founded. You are willing to be ruled by globalists that have no respect for and are unaccountable to the US voters. These globalists are controlling the major corporations and view you as disposable if it suites their purposes.

Aug 31, 2018
MR[
Onions I cannot believe that you have absolutely no respect for the principles...
I think that is because you have no idea what principles I respect. Let me clue you in. For starters I really respect truth, honesty, freedom of the press, science, and education. If you voted for Herr Trump - you just took part in electing a pathological/sociopathic/thug to the position of President of the most powerful country in the world. Trump is the antithesis of the values I have just listed.
Calling you out on your delusional mumbo jumbo about some mythical boogey man called the deep state - hopefully reflects the principles that I do respect.

Aug 31, 2018
Onions your hatred of conservative thought is beyond anything that I can fathom.

Aug 31, 2018
Onions your hatred of conservative thought is beyond anything that I can fathom
I am not surprised - I think you have a very limited ability to fathom... Funnily enough - I have quiet a high level of respect for genuine Conservative thinking. That would be fiscal responsibility, small government that is responsive to the electorate, minimum of regulations, and government intrusion etc, separation of church and state, reluctance to go to war, etc. . There is a big part of me that respects consistent Libertarianism. Economics is highly complex - and I don't have a label that I feel fits me. Belief in mumbo jumbo about deep state - is not the same as conservatism. Having read numerous books on Donald Trump - I have no hesitation in declaring the guy a thug and a sociopath. What discourages me is the number of people in the U.S. with a need to have a Messiah - who cannot think independently.

Sep 01, 2018
Name a single damn thing a conservative has done? Conservatism is a myth. It's a self-indulgent philosophy that to enrich one's self is to the benefit of the layman, Russian oligarchs love it as it lends itself nicely to plutocracy (ie; trump/Russian agent), I've never seen a single thing from a conservative that ever did anyone any good and I challenge those reading to name one political action that was beneficial to your average American Joe.

Sep 01, 2018
MR - I would encourage you to re-read my post - that caused you to conclude that I 'hate' conservative thought. In that post - I explain my respect for truth, honesty, education etc. I attack Donald Trump, and also your 'delusional' references to 'deep state.' So where does your suggestion that I am attacking 'conservative' thought come from? I truly hate 2 things - evil, and stupid. They often seem to go together. White supremacy would be an example. People who think your race makes you superior. That is evil (see the holocaust), and stupid (no science to support the notion.) Trump is both evil and stupid. I actually think that in many ways - the use of labels is a sloppy way to avoid discussing real issues. I see you do it all the time. You attack 'liberals' - without actually addressing issues. Of course - 1000 characters does not lend itself to complex debate. I agree with howhot - that conservatism is a myth. cont.

Sep 01, 2018
cont. - By that I mean that conservatives seem to debate in the realm of ideology - but cannot show an example of the application of that ideology in real world terms. It is easy to laude the merits of 'free markets.' But I see no examples of free markets - that would actually allow us to evaluate the real world application of the concept. It is said - that nothing makes a free marketer salivate - more than the prospect of a government contract. I see this all the time. Again - if you re-read my post - you see that I admire things like education, and science. It seems to me currently - that the Republican party is the anti science/education party. They certainly seem unaware of issues like poverty, and urban blight. I think we need to start expoloring ideas outside of the lazy bumper sticker thinking that seems to me to c characterize the current political debate - especially by advocates of myths like the free market...

Sep 01, 2018
So Onions, as a conservative, what is wrong with Trump trying to enforce immigration laws, negotiating better trade deals for the US and appointing conservative judges? Are you in favor of nationalism or globalism? Can the government reduce poverty or can only increased job opportunities?

Sep 01, 2018
So Onions, as a conservative, what is wrong with Trump trying to enforce immigration laws, negotiating better trade deals for the US and appointing conservative judges?
Complex set of topics MR - and what is odd to me - is that they are not relevant to any of the discussion so far. To answer your question though - at face value - there is nothing wrong with those actions. Not enough space here to really drill in to them. But that is not what we were discussing. Why do you feel the need to ask if I am in favor of nationalism, or globalism? They are both hollow words to me. I think it is necessary to control borders, and to know who is living in your country. I have compassion for people living in unstable countries - and think the U.S. has done much over the past century to contribute to destabilizing many countries. One quality I think is important - is historical awareness. The Jews were turned away by many countries in the 1930's - do you believe that was right?

Sep 01, 2018
cont. What I truly believe in MR is Education, knowledge, science, and an understanding that we are all in this together. Fascism, and the kind of nationalism that leads a president to call unstable countries "shit hole countries" - is abhorrent to me. We are all in this together - and with a little more compassion - we can make this world a good place for all. Yes that is naïve - but only because the world is currently run by selfish monsters like Trump. I have not heard one word out of Trump about the plight of the poor in the world. 60% of the world currently lives in poverty. https://www.resil...history/

So maybe a better question for me - is 'Are you a compassionate human being, or a selfish dick - who thinks the only important thing in life - is which porn star you get to screw tonight?

Sep 02, 2018
Well Onions you are not going to fix the 60% poverty rates by allowing unfettered immigration into the US like some want. South America is a prime example of government overreach smothering productive economies. Here in the US government attempts address poverty have decimated the black community as proven by the steady decline of black family incomes and the 70 or so % of fatherless black families since the start of LBJs "Great Society". Prior to government intervention black incomes and wealth were making steady gains.

Under Trump it appears, for the time being at least, that black and teenage unemployment is declining and that workers salaries are increasing. Let's hope that it continues.
Also, I will make a prediction that he will stop our warmongering in the ME and that relations with Russia and China will actually get better as he changes our entrenched government. The Justice Department and FBI are totally out of control. They need to stop meddling in our elections

Sep 02, 2018
the kind of nationalism that leads a president to call unstable countries "shit hole countries
but mr greengotts, they are shithole countries, often created by progressive communists (venezuela), which is why people are so desperate to get out of them.

Would you deny that Somalia is a shithole country? Or Syria? Or Gaza? And no, the shithole state of these countries is not trump's fault. As I've explained to you before they are the result of overpopulation exploited by progressive despots who think that govts regulating everything will solve all the problems.

At least that's what they tell the people who are too ignorant to believe anything else.

Sep 02, 2018
What I truly believe in MR is Education, knowledge, science
So go please try to educate al Shabaab on the advantages of western culture.

"Somalia: Suicide bomb attack hits school and offices in Mogadishu
At least six killed as bomb attack strikes government office building, causing nearby school to collapse, officials say... The armed group al-Shabab claimed responsibility for the attack... The armed group al-Shabab claimed responsibility for the attack..."

-But first you will have to find unbombable schools yes? Al Shabaab is already well educated to the fact that anything you have to teach them is EVIL.

This is the sort of thing that happens in shithole countries.

SHITHOLE countries. Created by progressives.

Sep 02, 2018
So go please try to educate al Shabaab on the advantages of western culture
I totally agree with you that the evils of the religious groups around the world must be stopped. In 1975 - the Indonesian military - with the full support of the U.S. military - began the systematic extermination of 100,000 people on the island of East Timor.
In total, the United States furnished over $250,000,000 of military assistance to Indonesia between 1975 and 1979.[76]
I am an equal opportunity critic of evil. How about you Otto?

https://en.wikipe...olvement

Sep 02, 2018
SHITHOLE countries. Created by progressives
Ignorant statements - made by racists. I am not very familiar with the history of Haiti (one of the countries being referenced by Herr Trump). Obviously based on your statement - you consider yourself an expert in this field. Could you give us a synopsis of this history - and perhaps some references that support the assertion that countries like Haiti were "Created by progressives"

Sep 02, 2018
Ignorant statements - made by racists
DONT call me a racist you asshole.
Somalia - African
Syria - arab
Gaza - Palestinian

Rampant poverty, violence, oppression. They're shitholes. How else would you describe them? Everybody wants to leave. The term shithole has nothing to do with race. It's about quality of life. Everybody knows this.

Your efforts to make it about race only exposes your blind political intentions. Anything, any lie, any misrepresentation, any distortion, any omission, any crime to get rid of trump whether hes doing good or not.

You all dont even know WHY you're doing it. You really dont. This makes you the same as al shabaab. You're just as dogmatic and thus as oblivious as they are.

East Timor- another result of overpopulation.

Sep 02, 2018
DONT call me a racist you asshole.
You are a racist - we already established that. Continuing to use a racist term - when it has been called out for being racist - just continues the game - https://www.thegu...s-remark

I notice that you did not answer a direct question about how you assert that liberals have 'created' the poverty of Haiti.

I did some reading - and was not surprised that Haiti's history involves French Colonial rule, slavery, U.S. occupation, installment of corrupt governments by foreign powers, extraction of wealth by western nations - etc.
How else would you describe them?
You could call them poor countries - with corrupt, and dysfunctional governments. There are many choices - without resorting to parroting racist terms. Makes you look uneducated.

Sep 02, 2018
Weve already established you're an asshole. Do you think my use of the term asshole is racist? If so, explain.

And note you use a viciously biased brit antitrump shitrag as a ref. Are shitrag and brit racist terms?

Haitis problems stem from overpopulation and the lies of progressive govts promising to fix them.

"By 1900, Haiti was spending about 80% of its national budget on loan repayments. It ­completely wrecked their economy. By the time the original reparations and interest were paid off, the place was basically destitute and trapped in a ­spiral of debt. Plus, a succession of leaders had more or less given up on trying to resolve Haiti's problems, and started looting it instead."

-When the govt gives to people who are not giving back, you will have problems. When you convince people that the govt is there to fix their problems for them, you have problems. When you fail to teach people how to limit growth and live within their means, you have problems.

Sep 02, 2018
Do you think my use of the term asshole is racist?
No - it makes you sound childish to me.
So here's the deal on your deliberate throwing around the term 'shit hole' and why I think it makes you a racist. When trump first used that term - it fired a big debate - and many felt it was clearly racist. Here is just on other example - https://www.washi...637984af
So - as an educated person - who wants to discuss issues - it is very simple for me to acknowledge the controversy - and stick to discussing those issues. Another choice is to purposely present myself as racist - by purposely goading others - by throwing those terms around. You choose to do the latter - and then get all offended when someone see what you are doing. cont.


Sep 02, 2018
Giving the government the power to redistribute wealth only leads to more poverty, starvation and income inequality. A few elite benefit but the rest of the producers are driven out. The government's responsibility is to insure that everyone has the opportunity to succeed. After that it is the individuals responsibility to support themselves. People with handicaps should be granted special help though. As an example of the government creating poverty I have relatives who want to have more children than they can support. They have no qualms about about going on government subsidies to enable this. Bingo,,,,, more government created poverty.

Sep 02, 2018
cont
Haitis problems stem from overpopulation
Another assertion - and of course you provide no support for said assertion (that Haitis problems stem from overpopulation). My quick read of Haiti's history says nothing about over population - and a lot about the complex history of Haiti - including French colonial rule, slavery, U.S. occupation, the forced extraction of wealth from the island, installation of corrupt governments by foreign powers etc. One example of a dig into those problems - https://www.forbe...931c312b

So you have yet to define liberal - or given any support for your assertion - that Hati's probles were created by liberals....

Sep 02, 2018
Onions there is no doubt that the West including the US has created problems in many countries. As a modern example the US has done so in the ME starting with Bush 1. Our continued campaign of disinformation and regime change is being orchestrated by the Deep State and is out of voter control at this point in time. Eisenhower warned us about the power of the military industrial complex in the 50s. Trump seems to be upsetting the Deep State by being an outsider who was not selected by them. THAT is why there is such a united front trying to overthrow his presidency.

Sep 02, 2018
MR
Bingo,,,,, more government created poverty
So please give us your solution to poverty, and references to examples of where this solution has been implemented - with success.

Trump seems to be upsetting the Deep State
Please provide references to support your assertions regarding the 'deep state.' I think it is mumbo jumbo - has no basis if reality - and is now being thrown around as a lazy term that really has no reality to it. The opposition I (and many others) feel towards Trump - is based on his record - he is a thug.

Sep 02, 2018
Trump is a career criminal who lies out of laziness. His constant fecal regurgitation stains our once proud country, and his stench has consumed the once semi-valuable Republican Party.

Trump's lasting legacy will be his treason. If he is not executed for it, the USA will indeed be on its way to ruin. I don't want a prison sentence for Trump and his gang, I want ropes around their necks, and for them to be hanged from those ropes until dead. That is the only way justice can be served.

I don't read postings by Russian Trolls, so I cannot see MR166 or Otto's contributions to the art of fecal regurgitation. I am sure they are trying hard to imitate their filthy maggot idol Trump.

Sep 02, 2018
Wow Zzzzz - I thought I had strong feelings. I think the Meuller probe is closing around the Trump family - and we are starting to see some panic from Herr Trump. It will be fascinating if Mueller is able to get into the finances of the Trump Organization - and I think there will be a lot of material there - with indictments to follow. We live in interesting times.... I don't see ropes in the tea leaves - but maybe a resignation - followed by a pardon from Pence. Of course State charges may follow - and they are not pardonable. The most interesting issue for me - is how so many people are so needing a Messiah - that they will overlook the character defects of Trump - and we end up in the mess we are in. I wonder what the future of the Republican party is post Trump. Do we just pretend like nothing happened - and business as usual???

Sep 02, 2018
When trump first used that term - it fired a big debate - and many felt it was clearly racist
No. Many felt that clinton could still be president, and they refused to accept that trump was, and so they labeled him a racist, among other things. So of course anything he said and did HAD to be racist.
Here is just on other example - https://www.washi...637984af
Yeah - again - you cite 'news' outlets that stopped reporting news a long time ago.

"shit·hole
ˈSHitˌhōl/Submit
nounvulgar slang
an extremely dirty, shabby, or otherwise unpleasant place."

-This describes the locales I listed above. And it is how trump used the term, as any unbigoted person can plainly see.

I could use the term to describe a homeless camp or trailer park full of white people and you wouldn't think it was racist. But if i used it to describe detroit neighborhoods full of zombie houses and crack addicts, you would. How come?

You're the racist, not me.

Sep 02, 2018
Wow Zzzzz - I thought I had strong feelings. I think the Meuller probe is closing around the Trump family - and we are starting to see some panic from Herr Trump
Z is a member of a very small group of morons who like to gather on the weekends and shit themselves for fun. Oh - did I say shit again? Racist pig-

The people who are panicking are the moderate libs like yourself who are seeing their party being dragged down to the ubersocialist/anarchist gutter by wetbrains such as z. Well, not actually HIM - he just likes to play act.

But antifeh is what happens when you abandon the truth to win a losing cause. I'm sure german citizens were just as shocked when they saw all the brownshirts actually acting on their glorious new ideology.

But then communism and the death of their entire middle class was a real threat to them. You people think that screening people at the border actually poses a similar threat.

Its unbelievable idiocy.

Sep 02, 2018
Haitis problems stem from overpopulation
Another assertion - and of course you provide no support for said assertion (that Haitis problems stem from overpopulation)
population density...
Haiti - 350 people per square kilometer (907/square mile), which ranks 32nd in the world.
2018 Population Rank: 85
Density: 400.47/km²
2018 Growth Rate: 1.20%

Dominican republic - 197 people per square kilometer (502/square mile), which ranks 65th in the world.

-And the famous comparison pic
https://www.ecowa...391.html

-The article of course is crap because it avoids the obvious - too many people, not enough resources. Despotic leaders have conveniently obscured this for the world and liberal econut article writers are only too happy to assist.

And you're only too happy to buy it.

Sep 02, 2018
And like I posted above

"a succession of leaders had more or less given up on trying to resolve Haiti's problems, and started looting it instead."

-because, what are they supposed to say? 'There are simply too many of you and there's nothing we can do about it.'??? The people would just depose them and elect new despots willing to lie to them and blame their problems on outsiders.

And you fall for that as well.

In related news

"The US is ending its decades of funding for the UN agency that helps Palestinian refugees, a week after slashing bilateral US aid for projects in the West Bank and Gaza.

"The US supplies nearly 30 per cent of the total budget of the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) and had been demanding reforms in the way it is run.

"The US State Department said in a written statement the United States "will no longer commit further funding to this irredeemably flawed operation"."
Cont>

Sep 02, 2018
60% of Gazans live on foreign aid. 60% are under the age of 15. Thats about the worst religion can do.

Time to stop believing that allah will support however many babies they can create for his armies. Time to start living within their means.

Time to grow up.

And no, it is NOT racist to expect them to do so, nor to cut off aid when they've proven that they dont want to.

Sep 02, 2018
Haiti - 350 people per square kilometer (907/square mile), which ranks 32nd in the world
Which means that there are 31 countries in the world that have higher population density - so looks like your premise is shot. If you look at a list of countries - https://simple.wi..._density You can do a simple comparison. Gibraltar is close to the same size as Haiti - has almost double the population density, and nothing like the poverty. So obviously your analysis is highly simplistic. You have no interest in trying to understand the complexity of history.
a succession of leaders had more or less given up on trying to resolve Haiti's problems, and started looting it instead
Surprised? But all of this is irrelevant to the racism of calling it a shit hole country. You have no ability to care. I guess that is what makes being a blatant racist so easy for you. You and the Donald have a lot in common.

Sep 02, 2018
The people who are panicking are the moderate libs like yourself who are seeing their party being dragged down
What party is that Otto? Are you implying that I belong to the Democratic party - or even sympathize with the Dem??. You show how little you know. Childish group think. You cannot conceive of someone being an independent thinker. Everyone has to belong to one of two parties. Either you are with us - or you are against us. There are only two possibilities - capitalism or socialism. You think like a five year old otto. No wonder you hate being outed as a racist - it spoils the fun of thinking you are god.

Sep 02, 2018
Which means that there are 31 countries in the world that have higher population density - so looks like your premise is shot. If you look at a list of countries - https://simple.wi..._density You can do a simple comparison. Gibraltar is close to the same size as Haiti - has almost double the population density, and nothing like the poverty... simplistic
I suppose so. Gibraltans are able to support themselves, while bangladeshis and Palestinians are not (shithole countries BTW). But the side by side haiti/dominican republic comparison is a classic one.
You have no ability to care
The only way to CARE is to tell the TRUTH. Haitians and Gazans and bangladeshis and harlemites have more children than they can support, which is why they're poor. Teach them how to live within their means if you really care. Or do you care more about your ideology than the actual results of it?

Sep 02, 2018
You cannot conceive of someone being an independent thinker
You think trump and otto are racists. Evidence says otherwise. Not very independent.
What party is that Otto? Are you implying that I belong to the Democratic party - or even sympathize with the Dem??. You show how little you know
"You dont know me. Nobody knows me. I am a rock I am an island lalalaaa"
https://youtu.be/JKlSVNxLB-A

Those guys single handedly ruined this country. First 8 track I ever bought.

'Holes are deep but they are also very empty." - otto

Now that's deep.

Sep 02, 2018
greenonions, I actually don't think ropes are going to be pressed into service either. The country needs healing, and ropes don't heal. In any case, I will outlive Trump - after all I'm a good 10 years younger, and I never go to DickMonald's. I'll settle for a vigorous celebration upon his filthy maggot filled death.

I stopped reading Otto's shite some time back.....he has become very predictable, and boring..... Like you say, his pretense at being an independent thinker is quite transparent.

Sep 03, 2018
You think trump and otto are racists. Evidence says otherwise
Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it's probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks
That is a direct quote. Trump has a long history of racism - https://www.vox.c...-history

Noteworthy that you have blamed Haiti's problems on 'liberals' - with no support - and never defining what you mean by liberal. You later blame the problems on 'overpopulation.' You can't see that there is a basic contradiction in saying that 'x' is the cause of something, and later saying that 'y' is the cause of that something. You think like a 5 year old.

Sep 03, 2018
Or do you care more about your ideology than the actual results of it?
What 'ideology' do you now assert that I own? (you used the term 'your' - that implies that I own and ideology.) I don't consider being an atheist as owning an ideology. It is a lack of ideology. I find no label (liberal, progressive, conservative etc.) that fits me. I think I am a pretty independent thinker. I believe strongly in education - but for me that is presenting the facts to a person - and letting them draw their own conclusions. I like the thinking of the existentialists - but that is pretty simply saying 'what the fuck is this all about??' No conclusions there - just the angst of asking the question. I do believe that I am just one person - and that we are all in this together. Biggest problem I see in the world - selfish people like Trump - who want more, more, more - and are selfish narcissists - and have no compassion for other humans. Racism is part of that package...

Sep 03, 2018
From the greengotts ref library:

"from calling Mexican immigrants criminals and rapists to proposing a ban on all Muslims entering the US"

-which is where I stopped reading your screed. It of course exclude the qualifier "some" mexicans. And as we know, lots of criminals have come here to the land of fake IDs and sanctuarie cities to mug and assault and rape and kill. I'm sure you know the borders lines with cartels yes?

Not wanting to screen criminals at the border is insane. Which is why obama was doing it.

And the BAN was TEMPORARY, from specific countries containing only a minority of the worlds muslims, until a better method of screening could be devised. Which is EXACTLY what we ended up with.

Fucking LIARS.

No need to read any more.

Sep 03, 2018
Otto you can present all the truth and facts that you care to, it will make no difference. These people are victims of progressive mind control starting in Pre-K. Trump have been declared to be evil by the puppeteers and the matter is settled in their minds.

Sep 04, 2018
which is where I stopped reading your screed
Because you're not interested in the facts. Bottom line - there is a mountain of evidence that supports the understanding that Trump is a racist. He has been indicted for discriminating against blacks. He lost the court case - and had to settle.
Bottom line - Otto is a racist. Otto is aware that using terms like 'shit hole countries' is perceived across the world as a racist dog whistle. If Otto cared - Otto would say "not wanting to be racially offensive - I will be happy to use the infinite number of other options I have in terms of referring to countries like Haiti - such as impoverished."
The interesting thing to me - is that the one thing a racist hates - is being called a racist. Look at how Otto screamed in all caps about me as an ASSHOLE. Otto could at least be honest like Bannon - and wear racism on his sleeve as a badge of honor...

Sep 04, 2018
MR
These people
Who are 'these people' MR? You don't even hear yourself. Please tell me who you are referring to as 'these people.' What group do you put me in here. I read a lot. I am a very independent thinker. I belong to no group. I advocate for science, education, and progress of the human species. I respond to your posts directly. I don't lump you into any group - or tar you with the crimes of others. So come on MR - tell me which group you lump me with - and what is your evidence for doing such. I asked you a direct question about your solution to poverty. I agree that government has a pathetic record in terms of solving social problems. I believe as you do in small government. But when asked a question - crickets. But you engage in childish, stupid, ignorant, behavior - instead of actually engaging the issues - you use stupid group think - just dismissing facts with stupid terms like "these people."

Sep 04, 2018
Here in the US we have two sides fighting for dominance, the Trump "Make America Great Again" side and the Andrew Cuomo " America Was Never Great" side. Of course the Andrew Cuomo side is closest to the Progressive viewpoint and, by default since most US educators are progressive, the teachings of our educational system.

Sep 04, 2018
Here in the US we have two sides fighting for dominance
I totally disagree with that analysis. I think the Republicans and the Dems - both represent an elite wealthy class, and that class is quite happy - which ever side is in. Look at campaign contributions - to see how they happily back both horses - knowing they win either way. I would agree that the business community is happy with Trump - as his policies clearly enrich Raytheon, Haliburton, Oil companies etc. The business class was also very happy with Obama, and the government bail out of Lehman etc.

So you duck the question - yet again. You used the term 'these people' when talking about me. Which 'group do put me in?' Who are 'these people.' Please answer the question.

Sep 04, 2018
https://www.zeroh...ime-2009

Yet another Progressive government turning a silk purse into a sow's ear.

Sep 04, 2018
Otto you can present all the truth and facts that you care to, it will make no difference. These people are victims of progressive mind control starting in Pre-K. Trump have been declared to be evil by the puppeteers and the matter is settled in their minds.
Well its not for them is it?

In related news

"UPPER DARBY, Pa. (WPVI) -- Upper Darby police say they've arrested a suspect accused of shooting the owner of a beer distributor.

"Pablo Quintanilla, 24, was arrested Monday morning and is being charged with attempted murder... he is the one who opened fire inside the store on the 700 block of Garrett Road on Saturday night.

"According to police, Quintanilla is in the country illegally. The native of Honduras was deported from Texas in 2015.

"At some point, he returned and was in the country illegally living in New York."

-Libs think this is the sort of thing we need to live with.

Sep 04, 2018
cause you're not interested in the facts
The article started out with gross lies and misrepresentations. One can assume that there were no reliable facts in it at all.
Bottom line - there is a mountain of evidence that supports the understanding that Trump is a racist
There is a mountain of lies and misrepresentations by libs that supports the mistaken understanding that trump is a racist. I debunked only 2 of them.

If you were honest you would take the time and debunk the rest yourself.

Sep 04, 2018
racist dog whistle
Thats one of those idiot made-up terms that make users believe they are actually thinking about something, isnt it?

I gave you a number of shit_ terms, none of which were racist, all of which were neutral. I gave you the official def of the word shithole which said nothing about race or bigotry. I gave you examples of equivalent usages which were obviously un-racist.

The ONLY reason you and all the other idiots out there think that is racist is because you think trump is racist, and therefore anything he says must be racist. Its as simple as that

"Prejudice noun
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience."

-this is YOU dude. Youre a bigot.

The LIE that the 'muslim ban' included all muslims when that was NEVER the case, is the defining example of your sort of foul stinking duplicity.

Sep 04, 2018
The ONLY reason you and all the other idiots out there think that is racist is because you think trump is racist
You and Trump both are racists - that is pretty settled. You would not need to use dog whistles if that were not the case, and Trump would not say things like this -
Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it's probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks

Sep 04, 2018
Onions is that the best you have. People talk in stereotypes all the time. If you want to get mad a racists get mad at the democrats who have decimated the black family unit with welfare programs that encourage single mothers.

Sep 04, 2018
Get mad at democrats who encourage unaccompanied minors to enter the US. They are quickly "Adopted" by MS13 gang members.

Sep 04, 2018
Trump would not say things like this
Yeah I dont know if you want to compare sarcasm and borschtbelt schtick with the kind of earnest racism you get from the left...

"Clinton was even more overt in her racism, labeling young African-Americans as "super-predators" during a speech in support of her husband's 1996 crime bill."

"she called Paul Fray, her husband's campaign manager at the time, a "fucking Jew bastard"."

"Hillary Clinton Jokes About Mahatma Gandhi Owning a Gas Station"

-Seewhutahmsayin? I bet there's lots more where that came from.

Sep 04, 2018
The whole democratic platform is based on poverty and class warfare. They know that poverty is the key to their success and do everything in their power to make sure that it is never eradicated including telling the masses not to bother trying because white males have the system rigged.

Sep 04, 2018
mr
People talk in stereotypes all the time
No - racists talk in stereotypes all the time. Just read posts from people like Otto. Notice I asked you 2 direct questions - and crickets. Talking to you is like talking to banana.

Otto
Yeah I dont know if you want to compare sarcasm and borschtbelt schtick with the kind of earnest racism you get from the left
Here you go with the binary thinking. You really are a simpleton. Today's article is about Trump. Trump is a racist. Does that mean that Hillary is not a racist? Of course it does not - but we are not talking about Hillary today. You are now pulling the old 'well she does it - so that makes it right for me to do it.' No Otto - it is not right to be a racist. We are all in this together - and we have to stop with the bullshit like racism.

Sep 05, 2018
I was giving you perspective on what real racism looks like. Trump isnt racist. He has a sense of humor. You guys dont.

You think whining is amusing. It's not.

Sep 05, 2018
It's like when hillary tries to tell a joke. Its horrifying.
https://youtu.be/WovYnLL9Yow

Here I'll prove it. Say something funny. I dare you.
Talking to you is like talking to banana
Nope not funny. Try again.

Sep 05, 2018
C'mon. Make me laugh on purpose. Here I will show you.
"Otto say something funny."
"Your face." ahaahaaa
Ok now your turn.

Sep 05, 2018
Onions in today's society every conservative is some sort of "ist". That is part of the divide and conquer plan of the new left. Unapproved speech is being shut down by groups like Antifa and the left is cheering them on by it's lack of news coverage and any real criticism of Antifa's violence. It seem that hate is only hate when when unapproved views are expressed.

Sep 05, 2018
"No - racists talk in stereotypes all the time. "

And the Left never expresses any stereotypical thoughts about white males eh! Or conservatives......Or religious people.....Or business owners....Or.........

Sep 05, 2018
The fact is that today's left is a hate based movement not too unlike the KKK of old. Antifa ,in fact, a Fascist organization in that it abhors free speech and utilizes forcible suppression of their opposition.

Sep 05, 2018
Come to think about it the KKK was mostly southern democrats. I guess that the left never changes it's Method of Operation just to color of it's robes.

Sep 05, 2018
Many of the largest corporations have positioned themselves solidly to the left under the mistaken impression that it will increase sales to Millennials. Nike is a prime example of this. They have just alienated 1/2 of their market, may the stock go to zero.

Sep 05, 2018
https://www.zeroh...te-house

Washington needs to be completely purged. When people who swore to uphold the constitution and laws of the US try to overthrow an duly elected president there needs to be a lot; of people going to jail and losing their pensions.

Sep 05, 2018
And the Left never expresses any...
Where have I ever said that racism is exclusively a right wing phenomena? You just cannot understand that not everyone is stuck in your childish binary thinking.

Sep 05, 2018
Otto
I was giving you perspective on what real racism looks like
Oh thanks - I needed a blatant racist - to school me on the issue of racism. Yes - you and Trump are both blatant racists - https://slate.com...ist.html (that reference is for Trump.) You have outed yourself on several occasions - which you and I have gone around and around more than enough. I do understand that the one thing a racist really hates - is being outed as a racist. Funny thing that.

Sep 05, 2018
MR...
there needs to be a lot; of people going to jail
Yeah - I think Meuller is working overtime on that one. We have no idea what cards he is currently holding. It will be fascinating what we find out when he finally shows his hand. Trump does not have to worry - he has a genius for an attorney. "Truth is not truth...."

Sep 06, 2018
Yes - you and Trump are both blatant racists - https://slate.com...ist.html

-No wonder you're so full of shit.

But to demonstrate the enormity of the problem... from the article I referenced:

"There aren't a whole ton of surprises here -- conservative talkers are on the far right, while most mainstream media outlets have a slightly left-of-center audience..."

-The whole article was meant to bolster the LIE that CNN, MSNBC, CBS and the like are both mainstream and news, which they're not. They're ultraliberal opinion vendors. Propagandists.

The world hasn't faced such an outrageous onslaught of political disinformation since the 1920s.

Sep 06, 2018
Let me fix that...
Yes - you and Trump are both blatant racists - https://slate.com...ist.html
--And of course you ref the most liberal shitrag you can find...
https://www.washi...e12e63dd

-No wonder you're so full of shit.

But to demonstrate the enormity of the problem... from the very WP article I referenced:

"There aren't a whole ton of surprises here -- conservative talkers are on the far right, while most mainstream media outlets have a slightly left-of-center audience..."

-The whole article was meant to bolster the LIE that CNN, MSNBC, CBS and the like are both 'mainstream' and 'news', which they're not. They're ultraliberal opinion vendors. Propagandists.

The world hasn't faced such an outrageous onslaught of political disinformation since the 1920s.

Sep 06, 2018
Onions the fact that you are happy about the path that the Mueller investigation has taken just proves that to you the end justifies the means and that you do not have the slightest concern about the legal precedents that are being set by this investigation. You have just given the entrenched government the right to destroy any office holder of which it does not approve without being subject to the constitution. No qualified outsider will ever run for political office again. Only political cronies will dare.

Sep 06, 2018
Otto
-And of course you ref the most liberal shitrag you can find
And if I referenced a right of center source - you would find some other reason to not approve. The facts are what is important - and the facts support the understanding that you and Trump are both racists. Here - from the right of center - http://fortune.co...-quotes/
completely racist." He didn't pass the same judgment on the man himself, but from what I see, the record would support him if he did.

The world hasn't faced such an outrageous onslaught of political disinformation since the 1920s.
I agree - much of it spear headed by the liar in chief. Trumps friend and media ally put out many completely false anti trump articles in the lead up to the election - see for yourself - https://qz.com/13...p-trump/

Sep 06, 2018
MR
Onions the fact that you are happy about the path that the Mueller investigation has taken just proves that to you the end justifies the means
No it doesn't. It means that I am pleased that the legal process of special prosecutor may one day give us access to at least some of the truth of Trump's illegal behavior. The fact that the investigation has already had so many indictments - is total vindication of the process, and shows the accusations of 'witch hunt' to be just more lies for a President who is feeling the heat - and knows he is in serious legal jeopardy.

Sep 06, 2018
correction on comment above the last - should read 'false anti Clinton articles.'

Sep 06, 2018
Onions either you believe that the end justifies the means in Trump;s case or you are totally ignorant of Meuller's abuse of power.

Sep 06, 2018
Onions either you believe that the end justifies the means in Trump;s case or you are totally ignorant of Meuller's abuse of power
I don't believe there is an abuse of power. Mueller is a duly appointed special prosecutor. There is plenty of precedent for such action. The numerous indictments that have already come from the investigation - are total rebuttal to any suggestion that this is a 'witch hunt.' He is in the process of draining the swamp - with full legal and legitimate authority to do his work. You just don't want the swamp drained - if the swampy monsters - are your swampy monsters. Let's not forget that Meuller is a Republican - appointed by a Republican president. I believe in the process of law - and you don't.

Sep 07, 2018
Here is just one example of his abuse of power. The raid on Trump's lawyer's office and subsequent flipping of his lawyer is a huge violation of lawyer client privilege. Just the fact that the whole investigation was based on a dossier paid for by the Democratic party is a blatant abuse of the legal system.

Yes Mueller is a Republican-----A never Trumper and part of the power structure that is trying to insure that only deep state approved candidates hold power. This whole investigation would have never been approved without Republicans joining Democrats to overthrow his presidency. That is another thing that makes this investigation so onerous.

Sep 07, 2018
Just the fact that the whole investigation was based on a dossier paid for by the Democratic
No it was not. https://www.reute...BN1HH395

That is another thing that makes this investigation so onerous
It's onerous to you - cuz it attacks your Messiah. The multiple indictments coming out of the probe totally invalidate any assertion of illegitimacy - the justice system is doing it's job - and you don't like it...

Sep 08, 2018
Onions I concede the fact that you are highly programed by the MSM and totally uninformed on this subject.

Sep 08, 2018
Onions I concede the fact that you are highly programed by the MSM and totally uninformed on this subject
Concede would be the wrong word MR. It implies that it is a position that I have stipulated - and you are now agreeing with. Of course language is not your strong point. Neither is understanding nuance. Your strong point seems to me to be childish tribal politics. I do agree with you that the MSM does a really shitty job of presenting the world to us - which is why I read a lot of books, and try to listen to multiple angles. Back on the Mueller probe. Fact is that Mueller has already obtained a number of indictments, and guilty verdicts/pleas. Herr Trump is almost certainly crapping his pants at this point - and if you have really read any books on his history - you will know that is with very serious concern that the truth of his life are about to be opened to the public. There are reasons he wont release his taxes....

Sep 08, 2018
"BI & DOJ CORRUPTION
FEDERAL BUREAU OF "INVESTIGATION"
James Comey, Director – FIRED
Andrew McCabe, Deputy Director - FIRED
Jim Rybicki, Chief of Staff and Senior Counselor – FIRED
James Baker, General Counsel – FIRED
Bill Priestap, Director of Counterintelligence (Strzok's boss) – Cooperating witness [power removed]
Peter Strzok, Deputy Assistant Director of Counterintelligence – FIRED
Lisa Page, Office of General Counsel – FIRED/FORCED
Mike Kortan, Assistant Director for Public Affairs – FIRED
Josh Campbell, Special Assistant to Comey – FIRED
Michael Steinbach -
John Glacalone -
Randy Coleman -
Trisha Anderson -
Kevin Clinesmith -
Tashina Gauhar -
Sally Moyer -"
-cont>

Sep 08, 2018
"DEPARTMENT OF "JUSTICE"
David Laufman, Chief of the Justice Department's Counterintelligence and Export Control Section [NAT SEC - HRC email invest] - FIRED/FORCE
John Carlin, Assistant Attorney General – Head of DOJ's National Security Division - FIRED/FORCED
Sally Yates, Deputy Attorney General & Acting Attorney General - FIRED
Mary McCord, Acting Assistant Attorney General – Acting Head of DOJ's National Security Division - FIRED/FORCED
Bruce Ohr, Associate Deputy Attorney General – Demoted 2x - cooperating witness [power removed] - TERMINATION IMMINENT
Rachel Brand, Associate Attorney General – No. 3 official behind Deputy AG Rosenstein - FIRED/FORCED"
-etc. The swamp is being drained from bottom to top. Of course there's lots of squealing and wailing. Lots more to come.

Sep 08, 2018
The numerous indictments that have already come from the investigation - are total rebuttal to any suggestion that this is a 'witch hunt.'
-None of which had anything to do with Russian collusion.

"WASHINGTON — George Papadopoulos, a former Trump campaign adviser, was sentenced on Friday to 14 days in prison for lying to the F.B.I. about his contacts with Russian intermediaries during the 2016 presidential race..."

"14 days for $28 MILLION - $2 MILLION a day, No Collusion. A great day for America!" Trumptweet

Sep 08, 2018
Otto
None of which had anything to do with Russian collusion


With a new indictment of 12 Russian intelligence officers filed this Friday, special counsel Robert Mueller's team has either indicted or gotten guilty pleas from 32 people...That group is composed of four former Trump advisers, 26 Russian nationals, three Russian companies, one California man, and one London-based lawyer. Five of these people (including three former Trump aides) have already pleaded guilty.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/mueller-indictments-grand-jury

Also see - https://www.theat.../565136/

Sep 08, 2018
Hey i know - how about mueller set up traffic stops on the beltway. He could catch even more lawbreakers.

NO EVIDENCE FOR COLLUSION.

"SEAN HANNITY HIGHLIGHTS RUSSIAN COLLUSION CASE, BUT NOT FOR DONALD TRUMP — FOR ADAM SCHIFF
9:46 PM 08/06/2018
Mike Brest | Contributor
"Hannity then aired a clip of Schiff talking to a Russian radio host disguised as someone who could give him dirt on the President."

PLENTY of collusion from the other side tho-

Sep 08, 2018
"Aug 29, 2018 ...the Daily Caller is raising eyebrows throughout Washington this week; claiming a Chinese-backed company "hacked" Hillary's email server and received nearly every message in "real time."

"The Daily Caller reported that the firm operating in the D.C. area wrote code that was then embedded in the server and generated a 'courtesy copy' for almost all her emails — which was then forwarded to the Chinese company,"

Sep 08, 2018
Otto
NO EVIDENCE FOR COLLUSION
Oh because you can be a big baby - and hammer the all caps - that makes you right. Actually there is evidence for collusion - http://nymag.com/...sia.html

But even if there were not evidence of collusion - so what? Here is what Mueller is tasked with 1. The Russian government's efforts to interfere in the election
2. Any links or co-ordination between Russia and Trump campaign-linked individuals
3. Any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation

The 32 indictments to date certainly validate that Meuller is working within the scope of the investigation. We have no idea what information Meuller is sitting on - and won't until he is ready to play his cards. So my point stands - Mueller's investigation has been validated - by the indictments and guilty verdicts to date. All you have is your childish need to bully people with all caps...

Sep 08, 2018
These people are so full of shit.

"Whether this body of information amounts to proof of collusion is something you could dispute if you took an especially stringent definition of the terms "proof" and "collusion."

IOW if you there's collusion then there must be collusion.
The 32 indictments to date certainly validate that Meuller is working within the scope of the investigation
No hes not. They're procedural crimes - giving different versions of the same story (perjury trap) and unrelated financial issues.

The FISA court is supposed to issue warrants based on credible, corroborated evidence of specific crimes.
Cont>

Sep 08, 2018
"one of the most humorous, incredible aspects in the FISA warrant application actually cites as evidence — remember what this was. This was to spy on Carter Page. The FISA warrant sought to spy on Carter Page, who worked for Trump for a couple of days, supposedly had been to Moscow and was tight with Russian agents and oligarchs and all that. And of all the people that have been sought, of all the people that have been pursued, of all the people that have been surveilled, Carter Page has not been charged with anything."

Sep 08, 2018
"MCCARTHY: A FISA warrant was issued on the basis of unverified uncorroborated information. We should be blunt about this. They used it to say the Trump campaign was colluding with Russia. It's probably important to point out to people that under our American FISA law, to get a warrant on an American citizen, you have to show not only that he's willfully engaged in clandestine activities, but they probably violate federal criminal law. They were up on Carter Page for about a year. He's never been charged with anything which, again, I think underscores that they did this based on the dossier without corroboration."

Sep 08, 2018
"One of the bombshell admissions from the closed-door testimony of DOJ official Bruce Ohr was that his wife, Nellie Ohr, was already working for opposition research firm Fusion GPS in late 2015."

"Bruce Ohr also confirmed that former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, FBI agent Peter Strzok, and FBI special counsel Lisa Page all knew he was talking to former British MI6 spy, Christopher Steele, who compiled the now-infamous opposition research dossier..."

"The Mueller team has known of Ohr's involvement with the Steele dossier from the start of their formal investigation."

"What the FISA court disclosed is alarming in its simplicity.

Illegal NSA database searches were endemic. Private contractors, employed by the FBI, were given full access to the NSA database. Once in their possession, the FISA data couldn't be traced."
https://m.theepochtimes.com/2015-employment-of-nellie-ohr-by-fusion-gps-raises-new-questions_2638763.html

-your tax dollars at work.

Sep 08, 2018
No hes not. They're procedural crimes

Please tell us what you mean by 'procedural crimes.' - and also how charging people for 'procedural crimes' - fails to validate an investigation looking into wrong doing - especially regarding election interference.
the indictments of 13 Russian citizens and three companies allegedly involved in meddling in the US political system
Bingo - Meuller turns up exactly what he was commissioned to turn up. https://www.busin...panies-5

Sep 08, 2018
These people are so full of shit
No Otto - you are full of shit. Screaming stupid shit in all caps - but logic and facts makes you an idiot. You have no idea what cards Mueller is currently holding - you make dumb arguments about 'procedural crimes' - and overall just make no sense. You sound like Herr Trump.

Sep 09, 2018
"As Mueller rummages around Trump's attorney's office looking for a crime with which to charge the president, it is increasingly likely that a substantive crime like coordination with Russian intelligence to fix the election is unlikely to be provable. That probably means that a PROCEDURAL CRIME relating to the investigation itself is the most likely charge Mueller will be able to bring against the president. Obstruction of justice would likely be the accusation."

Sep 09, 2018
"Mueller, 73, took over the federal government's probe into alleged collusion between President Trump's campaign and Russian officials in May 2017. Already, his investigation has led to charges for four Trump campaign associates, though none of the charges are directly related to any misconduct by the president's campaign."
also how charging people for 'procedural crimes' - fails to validate an investigation looking into wrong doing
Those crimes wouldn't have occurred if there was no investigation. Very easy to unintentionally perjure or obstruct, which is why they want to get trump on the stand. Hence 'perjury trap'.
especially regarding election interference
Not 'especially'. Election interference was the ONLY reason for the warrant. Financial crimes are best dealt with by other agencies with no obvious political agenda.

Sep 09, 2018
you make dumb arguments about 'procedural crimes' - and overall just make no sense
Not my arguments. Read something besides leftist propaganda and find out how detached you all are from reality.
You sound like Herr Trump
Hitlerism of course.

Not a nazi, not racist, not incompetent, not a demagogue, etc. YOU on the other hand are gullible, prejudiced, racist.

Sep 09, 2018
Not my arguments
Yes - your arguments - as you are the one promoting them. Manafort was found guilty of 8 separate counts - including tax and bank fraud. How are these 'procedural crimes?'
Hitlerism of course
Absolutely. I am very worried about the rise of white supremacy, racism, anti anything foreign under trump. He has shown great affinity for authoritarian dictators around the world. I see many parallels to Hitler.

YOU on the other hand are gullible, prejudiced, racist.
Said without presenting any support. You have shown your racist views on several threads, and I have called you on it. I understand that the one thing a racist seems to hate - is being called out as a racist. The response is from the 5 year old play book - "I know you are - but what am I."

Sep 09, 2018
Otto
Mueller, 73, took over the federal government's probe into alleged collusion between President Trump's campaign and Russian officials

That is not the full scope of the commission of the investigation.

The reference for the investigation is to examine Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections


12 indictments of Russians affiliated with the Russian gvt show that Mueller is on track.

including members of the Trump campaign—had "repeated contacts" with senior Russian intelligence officials during the 2016 campaign.


https://en.wikipe...fficials

Sep 09, 2018
Otto the really enlightening and scary part of the investigation is that it would not exist without the approval and cooperation of the Republicans. I.E. we as citizens do not have the right to choose our own leaders and choose the direction of our country. The Progressives are in a panic because their one world government plans have hit a roadblock. If Hillary was elected their victory was assured. Even the people in Europe are starting to awaken from their comas.

Sep 09, 2018
"He has shown great affinity for authoritarian dictators around the world."

That statement is a very poor excuse for critical thinking. When negotiating with other governments for better relations is cast in a negative light you know that the opposition is politically bankrupt. Under Obama we were very close to war with Russia in Syria and the media was all for WW3. Now things are cooling off just a bit and the war mongering Democrats are very unhappy about it. They could not even come up with an original excuse for the war and are still using the chemical weapons and killing of citizens bit of Bush2.

Sep 09, 2018
12 indictments of Russians affiliated with the Russian gvt show that Mueller is on track.
Nothing to do with trump or collusion. Meanwhile the purge continues...

"Joe diGenova: It was obvious that a fraud was committed on the court… We can no longer trust the department under Rosenstein, who by the way, he's got a big problem with FISA… He's now under investigation and he can't do FISAs anymore.

"Hannity: Whoa! Rosenstein is under investigation?

"DiGenova: Rosenstein is under investigation for things that involve the FISA warrants."

Sep 09, 2018
Otto the really enlightening and scary part of the investigation is that it would not exist without the approval and cooperation of the Republicans
Big mystery - why did trump hire or at least not fire all those obama/hillary operatives? Old mil strategy: to defeat the enemy you want to draw them out of the shadows, make yourself a target, make them think they can win... much easier to make them expose themselves and take them down if they're still around, doing what theyre doing, thinking that they're getting away with it. Like strozk/page, Rosenstein, ohr... sessions?

Sep 09, 2018
Nothing to do with trump or collusion
Can you not read?
including members of the Trump campaign—had "repeated contacts" with senior Russian intelligence officials during the 2016 campaign

Sep 09, 2018
When negotiating with other governments for better relations is cast in a negative light you know that the opposition is politically bankrupt
"Obama's critics have blistered him for this week's [open mic] gaffe, because, well, that's what critics do. Mitt Romney says he is "very, very concerned" that the president is "looking for greater flexibility where he doesn't have to answer to the American people." Rick Santorum sees Obama's comments as "suggesting that he is willing to sacrifice American security." Newt Gingrich said the conversation amounted to an "extraordinary moment caught on tape where the president basically said to a Russian leader, 'Please wait until after the election so I can sell out.'"

-And then of course the uranium 1 deal...
And all those speeches for $millions...

Sep 09, 2018
including members of the Trump campaign—had "repeated contacts" with senior Russian intelligence officials during the 2016 campaign
What makes you think contacts means collusion? The russian spy lady wanted to talk about adoption but it was a setup meant to entrap.

See my last post for examples of real collusion.

Sep 09, 2018
MR have you seen all the qanon stuff? Good source of latest info. Theres an app qdrops. Also hannity, limbaugh, mark levin websites and radio.com. And of course fox.

Sep 09, 2018
What makes you think contacts means collusion?
Oh that's right - members of the Trump campaign were exchanging recipes with Russian Intelligence officials. Mueller's probe was tasked with investigating interference in the 2016 election by the Russians. That is what he is doing. 32 indictments to date - validate the work being done. There is certainly much more to come.

but it was a setup meant to entrap
Where is your evidence for suggesting entrapment. Are you saying that Don Jr was working for the fbi - and faking email with a Russian attorney in order to entrap her?

Sep 09, 2018
evidence?
"Entrapment? Fusion GPS Exec met with Russian lawyer before Don Jr. sit down
"Natalia Veselnitskaya reportedly met with the head of a company hired by the DNC to invent the fake "Trump dossier" before she met Trump's son
(FOX News) – The co-founder of Fusion GPS, the firm behind the unverified Trump dossier, met with a Russian lawyer before and after a key meeting she had last year with Trump's son, Fox News has learned. The contacts shed new light on how closely tied the firm was to Russian interests, at a time when it was financing research to discredit then-candidate Donald Trump... Simpson and Fusion GPS were hired by BakerHostetler, which represented Russian firm Prevezon through Veselnitskaya.

"Veselnitskaya has said she sought the Trump Tower meeting in order to lobby the candidate's team against Russian sanctions..."

-Evidence that DNC paid Russians to entrap trump people. Didnt work.

Of course this is news to you.

Sep 09, 2018
exchanging recipes
The dems met with russian people about lots of things. In addition, trump businesses have totally legitimate interests with russian concerns. Meetings with foreigners is common dont you know this?

But this particular meeting wasnt collusion no matter what you want to believe.
32 indictments to date - validate the work
None of those indictments has anything to do with collusion. But the next shoe will drop

"House Judiciary Committee Republicans call for a new special counsel to investigate Hillary Clinton, James Comey and Loretta Lynch
"The lawmakers said they were seeking to restore "public confidence in our nation's justice system and its investigators, specifically the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)"

-at the proper time, in the proper manner.

Sep 09, 2018
Otto you can also add Zero Hedge to your list of sources. Some of the posting are a little off the wall so you have to be careful. Anyhow, if one gets all of their info from the main stream media they will soon vote to give up their freedoms and be controlled by the government instead of them controlling the government.

Sep 09, 2018
The dems met with russian people about lots of things
Could you support that assertion for us?
But this particular meeting wasnt collusion
How many times do you ignore the salient point??? Mueller is tasked with investigating Russian interference in the election. 12 members of GRU have been indicted for hacking the democrats emails. It does not have to say 'collusion' for it to come under Mueller's purview. The point I keep making over and over - and you seem incapable of getting - is that Mueller is doing his job - and the indictments validate his work. You just can't drop the word 'collusion.' Sorry the logic is too complex for you.

Sep 09, 2018
As conservatives we are bombarded with liberal slanted news 24/7 by the MSM. We have to search out other sites in order to obtain opposing views and we are aware of the facts that both sides present. The liberals have their news spoon fed to them and do not bother to look further. They think that Fox news is a radical right wing news source. That is why they think that they are informed while remaining willfully ignorant.

Sep 09, 2018
The liberals have their news spoon fed
Is that all liberals, most liberals, or some liberals? How do you know this? am I a liberal? How do you know what I am? Do you represent a group? What group do you represent? Do you all think the same, or are you allowed to have differing opinions?
Let me tell you about me. I was born and raised a conservative christian (bought the whole package). In adulthood - I started to see the holes in the bullshit I was brainwashed with - and slowly evolved into the free thinking atheist I am today. I don't belong to any group - or subscribe to any specific philosophy. I like existentialism - basically saying "what the fuck is this all about?" I get my information about life from multiple sources - but tend to gravitate towards left leaning sites - as they seem to fit my understanding that I am one person among 7 + billion - and we are all in this together. So am I a liberal? If yes - tell me what you mean by that.

Sep 09, 2018
Could you support that assertion for us?
"In contrast, the evidence of Democratic collusion with Russia blazes on, even as Team Mueller ignores it... Democrats colluded with Russia from 2009 to at least 2016. If Mueller has no idea where to look, he might start by connecting the nine dots that appear above..."
https://www.natio...mocrats/

-Im getting a little tired of doing your googling for you?

Sep 09, 2018
Mueller is doing his job - and the indictments validate his work. You just can't drop the word 'collusion.'
Muellees job isnt to find any crime he can get his hands on. Various law enforcement agencies for that. The FISA warrants were for 1 individual, 1 alleged crime. After 1 year, nothing.

"Mueller, 73, took over the federal government's probe into alleged collusion between President Trump's campaign and Russian officials in May 2017. Already, his investigation has led to charges for four Trump campaign associates, though none of the charges are directly related to any misconduct by the president's campaign."

Sep 09, 2018
Q seems to think something big is about to drop.

"How do you know when something VERY BIG is about to drop?
ATTACKS INCREASE FROM ALL DIRECTIONS.
READY THE MEMES.
[FISA CORRUPTION]"

-Note obama speeches, anonymous op ed article, Woodward book... new phony scandal every day. Who's getting nervous?

They even dug up an old lie about the inauguration crowd photo. The truth being, the media used an early photo long before all the people showed up.

Severe desperation.

"President Trump is expected to declassify, as early as this week, documents covering the U.S. government's surveillance of Trump campaign adviser Carter Page and the investigative activities of senior Justice Department lawyer Bruce Ohr" (today)
https://www.axios...b12.html

-Ohr apparently revealed far more than expected in testimony-

Sep 09, 2018
FFS Otto - I ask for evidence that the Russians colluded with the Democrats - and your evidence is of the President of the U.S., and the Secretary of State - meeting with Russian counterparts on official government business.
Muellees job isnt to find any crime he can get his hands on
Who says? The commission is - https://www.nytim...sia.html
I already explained this to you. It says "links and/or coordination..., matters that arise..., and any other matters"
So yes - Mueller is staying within the scope of his commission, and the indictments he has obtained are validation of his work.
Who's getting nervous?
Herr Trump appears to be. But we can wait and see what this big announcement you are predicting is. Probably about as amazing as the e-cat you have been promising for decades. How is that one coming on Otto - is it still next month? It has been next month for decades.....


Sep 09, 2018
Im getting a little tired of doing your googling for you?
Don't bother - you are pretty shitty at it. You showed no collusion, or links between the Democratic campaign and the Russians. Mueller is looking in to Russian interference with the election. On another note - you keep chastising me for using left wing sites for my support. But you have no problem in using the National Review to support your lies. Really? A publication started by Buckley. Can you not see the hypocrisy? I mean if I cant use the Guardian - cuz it is too lefty - do you really not see how stupid you look then using a far right publication to support your lies? No - I thought not.

Sep 10, 2018
The sites I use post verifiable truths. Your sites post verifiable lies, half-truths, and critical omissions. The inauguration photo is a typical example.

Sep 10, 2018
President of the U.S., and the Secretary of State - meeting with Russian counterparts on official govt business
"Putin applauded Obama's strategic abandonment of the Poles and Czechs"
"just ten weeks later, Boeing unveiled a $900,000 gift to the Clinton Foundation"
"17 "Key Partners" contributed between $6.5 million and $23.5 million to the Clinton Foundation... Skolkovo is arguably an overt alternative to clandestine industrial espionage... "Our goal is to help strengthen Russia." - hillary"
"20% of America's reserves of the active ingredient in reactors and nuclear weapons... pose great potential harm to the national security"
"After my election, I have more flexibility."
"Trump finally enforced Obama's red line by raining 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles on Shayrat"

-Colluding, compromising and selling the interests of this country in an official capacity are far worse dont you think? You capitalize their names as if this means we should respect treason and sedition?

Sep 10, 2018
Hannity 090818 "..."The Hill's" John reporting that Christopher Steele's phony Russian dossier was likely the basis for the ongoing witch hunt into Trump Russia so-called collusion after it was pushed by several high ranking deep state officials... Andrew McCabe, Page, Strzok, and, of course, Bruce Ohr and Christopher Steele, all Trump haters... Ohr was attempting to actually steer the FBI so-called Russia collusion investigation toward the phony Steele dossier, much earlier than we previously thought..."

"...will all be traced back to Hillary. Many of the same figures protected her so she could stay in the race by exonerating her after she obviously committed felonies and crimes, and, of course, the DNC, Clinton, funded this phony Russian Steele dossier before the 2016 election."

"this grand jury we now have confirmed is convened will look at everyone who committed a fraud on the FISA court..."

boom lakalakalaka


Sep 10, 2018
The sites I use post verifiable truths
The Guardian is just as credible a source as yours. It is pointless talking to someone who can't understand as fundamental a contradiction as you demonstrate.
Putin applauded Obama's strategic abandonment of the Poles and Czechs
Still nothing to do with interference with the election. But it is all back to your childish binary thinking. If he did something bad - then it is OK for him to do something bad also. You are a five year old. Case in point
boom lakalakalaka
FFS - grow up...

Sep 10, 2018
The Mueller investigation is acting totally within it's specified commission. https://www.nytim...sia.html
The Mueller probe has been totally validated - by all of the indictments and guilty pleas that have SO FAR occurred. There is undoubtedly much more to come. We will see what cards Mueller is holding - when he sees fit to reveal them. Mean time - Herr Trump pees his pants - and Otto lies himself around and around in circles. I can't wait to see it all play out.

Sep 11, 2018
I can't wait to see it all play out
"He said the House Oversight & Government Reform Committee discovered an April 10, 2017, text from Strzok to Page that said: "I had literally just gone to find this phone to tell you I want to talk to you about media leak strategy with DOJ before you go."

"Then, two days later, Strzok reached out to Page to congratulate her for planting two stories that were critical of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page."

-Dont forget to stock up on Depends.

Sep 11, 2018
"Congressional sources tell Fox News they expect President Trump will soon agree to a longstanding request by the House Judiciary and Intelligence Committees to declassify more documents used to justify Page's surveillance, as well as activities by embattled DOJ attorney Bruce Ohr.

"Ohr had contact in 2016 with Weissmann, then his colleague, as well as other senior FBI officials about the controversial anti-Trump dossier and the individuals behind it..."

"Republicans have said the FBI failed to disclose to the FISA court not only the funding sources for Steele dossier, but also Ohr's involvement and the fact that his wife, Nellie, had worked on Russia issues for Fusion GPS, the opposition research firm behind the dossier."

-This is what collusion with russia looks like.

Sep 11, 2018
This is what collusion with russia looks like
But no mention of the fact that you are wrong. You are disagreeing with me for evaluating that the Mueller probe is acting within the scope of it's commission, and that the indictments and guilty pleas gotten to date - totally validate the work. There is clearly much more to come. This is just factual - and you are wrong.
Interesting thing for me - is that when exchanging information - there is a basic assumption on my part that the person on the other end of the exchange is acting in good faith. When that becomes clearly not true - there are a few possibilities. 1. - they are just too stupid to understand the issues. 2. They have a delusional type disorder that means they don't share the same reality that you do. 3. They are just assholes - who are out trolling. At this point - I will go with # 3. Either way - it becomes a complete waste of time.

Sep 12, 2018
There is clearly much more to come
Yeah I know.

"Former Secret Service Agent Dan Bongino reacted to the ongoing coverage of former Trump associate George Papadopoulos and his role in the Russian collusion accusations.

"Papadopoulos said on ABC that Joseph Mifsud, a shadowy professor from Malta, invited him to a ritzy British hotel for breakfast one day, where Mifsud claimed he had information that the Kremlin had some of Hillary Clinton's emails.

"Bongino said it is increasingly apparent that Papadopoulos is not a conspirator in some collusion activity but instead "part of a set-up" to hurt Donald Trump.

"He said Papadopoulos' area of foreign policy expertise is with Egypt and not Russia, to begin with." Sep 11, 2018
there is a basic assumption on my part that the person on the other end of the exchange is acting in good faith
I'm posting widely covered info from credible news sources that you're not aware of. Not opinions.

You should be thanking me.

Sep 12, 2018
I'm posting widely covered info from credible news sources that you're not aware of. Not opinions
You choose to not understand a basic piece of information. Facts matter. There are always multiple view points - and I am quite capable of finding information sources - not interested in looking to you for that. Facts matter. When presented with clear facts - you ignore those facts - and continue to argue round in circles. Why should I thank you? I showed you - with the source document - several times - that Mueller is staying within the bounds of the commission of the investigation. He has gotten multiple indictments, and guilty verdicts. The investigation is undeniably legitimate. You continue to argue. That is not good faith - it is one of the options I presented.

Sep 12, 2018
"Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani on Sunday said the basis for special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation is not legitimate.

"I'm not saying Mueller is illegitimate, I'm saying the basis on which he was appointed was illegitimate," he said on CNN's "State of the Union."

"Giuliani, now a member of President Trump's legal team, said the Mueller probe was illegitimate because of the use of an informant who had discussions with Trump campaign aides in 2016."

-No specific crime named
-FISA warrant based on fake dossier fabricated by Russians
-no charges, no indictments, no prosecutions, no convictions having anything to do whatsoever with trump/russian collusion
-part of larger effort by players in FBI/DOJ to conspire to discredit trump and, as they stated, remove him by any and all means
-which is why the list of firings, resignations, and censorings is growing daily. And why these mutineers will soon be going to jail.

What's not to understand?

Sep 12, 2018
You confuse the conclusions of experts I post with what you think are my opinions. My opinion is that they know what they are talking about. Elements in FBI/DOJ/WH committed CRIMES to discredit trump, and were confident that hillary would be elected and they would never be caught.

They were wrong.

And AGAIN this is not my OPINION but the conclusions of experts, who i happen to agree with because those are the only conclusions possible that satisfy all the FACTS.

Sep 12, 2018
but the conclusions of experts, who i happen to agree with because those are the only conclusions possible that satisfy all the FACTS
See - my experts disagree with your experts - so my experts must be right - cuz I say so. It is not the only conclusion possible that satisfies the facts. I linked the commissioning document from the AG that set up the special prosecutor. The document conclusively supports the assertion that the investigation is functioning in accordance with it's commission. You are wrong. That is the only conclusion that satisfies the FACTS. See I can say it too. You are wrong. But FACTS don't matter to trolls.

Sep 12, 2018
-No specific crime named
The investigation is charged with looking into Russian interference with the 2016 election (already showed you that multiple times.) Such interference is certainly POTENTIALLY a crime - here read some legal opinion - https://www.lawfa...buse-act

The numerous indictments, and guilty pleas to date - are of course total validation of the work of the special counsel.

To quote Guliani as your 'expert' - to stipulate that the investigation is not legitimate is hilarious. He is the personal lawyer of the top person probably targeted by the investigation. He is the laughing stock of the legal world at this point - many legal opinions saying that he is hurting his client by just opening his mouth. He stated that 'Truth is not truth.' FFS Otto - you are a laughing stock.

Sep 13, 2018
He is the laughing stock of the legal world at this point
How do you figure?

"Now, it appears hiring Giuliani was a key part of a new and effective Trump strategy... Now, Trump is waging and, if the polls are correct, winning a political war on him. 'He has turned this investigation on its head,' one Trump campaign veteran said recently, with much admiration."

"None has been charged with any crime involving collusion. Manafort and Gates were charged with financial crimes, some of which went back a decade before the 2016 campaign; Flynn and Papadopoulos with lying to the FBI... there's been nothing from Mueller alleging a scheme between the Trump campaign and Russia..."

-crimes which certainly didnt need a special prosecutor charged with a specific task, to investigate. It's like sending a swat team to deal with jaywalkers. Its POLITICS, not justice.

Now for the good news

"Sean Hannity expects Trump to fire Robert Mueller after Hurricane Florence"

Sep 13, 2018
He stated that 'Truth is not truth.'
He stated that 'Truth is not truth.' Your out of context quotes are lies, dont you know that? He was talking about the perjury trap.
so my experts must be right - cuz I say so
No because mine stand up to scrutiny. Yours dont. For instance, from your link

"Shocking revelations regarding a meeting between Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, and Paul Manafort and someone they believed to be a representative of the Russian government currently dominate headlines"

-This is spin (lies) meant to prejudice the reader. NOTHING shocking about that mtg. A setup. The agent lied about the intent;

"Veselnitskaya has said she sought the Trump Tower meeting in order to lobby the candidate's team against Russian sanctions..."

-and they didnt fall for it.
Cont>

Sep 13, 2018
And the end of your article

"Based on the current record, a CFAA violation might still be low on the list of possible charges. That said, Don Jr. and company probably shouldn't rest easy; each week seems to bring revelations—and documentation—more shocking than the last."

-IOW they came up with NOTHING. Nothing. And this bullshit ending is meant to imply that they did, for casual readers already convinced by the intro and not interested in picking the bulk of it apart.

'But just you wait - shocker after shocker. Only a matter of time.'

-Why do you fall for that shit? Are you really that stupid?

Sep 13, 2018
"Former secretary of state John Kerry is reportedly working with world leaders to undermine American foreign policy and try to salvage the Iran deal.

"According to a new report by The Boston Globe, under the threat of President Donald Trump pulling out of the Iran Deal, Kerry "engaged in some unusual shadow diplomacy with a top-ranking Iranian official."

"Pulling from his list on contacts he collected while working at the State Department, Kerry has met with Foreign Minister Javad Zarif, German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier, European Union official Federica Mogherini and French President Emmanuel Macron."

-This is what real collusion looks like.

Sep 13, 2018
"None has been charged with any crime involving collusion
I'm not doing this to argue with you - as that is pointless. I am doing it to show others how stupid you are. I have shown the commission of the Mueller probe. Among other things - it is to investigate interference in the 2016 election. It does not have to prove collusion in order to be validated. The probe has led to the indictment of 12 Russians, and 3 Russian companies for interference in the election. FACT is it has been validated. Now we wait and see what else Mueller has in his deck of cards.

Sep 13, 2018
And the end of your article
In the article it says
it is a felony to "intentionally access[] a computer without authorization . . . and thereby obtain[] . . . information from any protected computer . . . in furtherance of any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States
So there you have validation of the Mueller probe. We wait and see if there is sufficient evidence to convict anyone in the Trump campaign - but that is not the metric that validates the probe. There IS evidence that supports the establishment and activities of the probe. There is evidence of crimes - as demonstrated by the indictments and guilty pleas to date. There is more to come - that is very clear. You are the stupid one who is wrong.

Sep 13, 2018
I'm not doing this to argue with you - as that is pointless. I am doing it to show others how stupid you are
And again youre confusing me with the experts I cite. Youre calling THEM stupid, not me.
t is a felony to "intentionally access[] a computer without authorization . . . and thereby obtain[] . . . information from any protected computer . . . in furtherance of any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States
So there you have validation of the Mueller probe
Yeah your article cites several laws as if they actually apply to anyone in the trump circle. They dont. Implying they do without evidence is a lie.

This is called a smokescreen.
cont>

Sep 13, 2018
There are also many laws that apply to hillarys mishandling of docs on her toilet room server and andy weeners laptop, her bleachbitting of said server, her deleting of 10k docs, and her smashing her blackberries with a hammer... all under supoena. No need to cite.

Thats the kind of hard evidence is specifically what mueller doesnt have on trump. Because there is none.

But this is why we're going to have a 2nd special council.

"Youd be in jail."

"Ex-FBI lawyer Lisa Page, whose Trump-bashing texts made it clear who she backed in the 2016 presidential election, refers in a newly revealed message to serving as an intern "under Clinton."

-WHAT a greasy little cabal.

Sep 13, 2018
The probe has led to the indictment of 12 Russians, and 3 Russian companies for interference in the election. FACT is it has been validated. Now we wait and see what else Mueller has in his deck of cards
"mueller's indictment of twelve military officers in the Kremlin's intelligence services for doing what everybody in America already knew that they did, and has known since before Donald Trump took office — indeed, since before the 2016 election.

"Make no mistake: This is nakedly politicized law enforcement. There is absolutely no chance any of the Russian officials charged will ever see the inside of an American courtroom. The indictment is a strictly political document by which the special counsel seeks to justify the existence of his superfluous investigation."

-This is what smelly political bullshit looks like.

Sep 13, 2018
"Rosenstein made another telling remark at his big press conference. The Justice Department, he explained, will now "transition responsibility for this case to our Department's National Security Division while we await the apprehension of the defendants."

"Now, stop giggling over that last part — the bit where we hold our breath until Russian dictator Vladimir Putin extradites his spies into the FBI's waiting arms. I'm talking about the first part: Mueller's case, the definitive case about what Russia did to interfere in the 2016 election, is no longer Mueller's case. It is being "transitioned" — i.e., buried — in the Justice Department unit that deals with counterintelligence matters that do not result in public trials.

"This underscores what we have been arguing here since before Mueller was appointed: There was no need and no basis in federal regulations for a special counsel."

-See? They KNOW its bullshit.

Youre on the WRONG side.

Sep 13, 2018
Youre calling THEM stupid, not me
No I'm calling you stupid. I cite experts too. You can always find experts on different sides of an issue. I am calling you stupid - because you can't understand a very basic point. Contrary to your assertions - the Mueller probe is within the scope of it's commission, and validated by the multiple indictments and guilty pleas that it has obtained. There is undoubtedly much more to come - with today's news being that Manafort is close to reaching a deal with the prosecutor.

Sep 13, 2018
Youre on the WRONG side
Tell that to Flynn, Gates, Cohen, Papadooupolos, Manafort, 13 Russians, and probably stone, Trump jr, Kushner, and who knows who else. It could lead to impeachment - which is clearly why Kavanaugh was so hastily added to the list of judges - and is being pushed through with such urgency.

Sep 13, 2018
Yeah your article cites several laws as if they actually apply to anyone in the trump circle
They don't have to. There is nothing in the commissioning documents that requires Meuller to only look within the 'trump circle.' Another made up term - that is not pertinent.

Sep 13, 2018
Flynn - "plea deal, which leaves him with a felony record but leaves open the possibility he won't have to serve any jail time"
Gates - "guilty plea deal may save him from jail time"
Cohen - "violating campaign finance laws in plea deal, agrees to 3-5 year sentence" (equivalent to Obama violations; fine only)
Papadopoulos - 14 days in jail
Manafort - "now could ask for Judge Ellis to intervene and declare him acquitted of any or all of the counts"; hung on 10 counts
probably stone, Trump jr, Kushner - uh no, probably not.

Sep 13, 2018
"Why wasn't Kavanaugh on the original lists? Because he had signed a letter in support of Merrick Garland's Supreme Court nomination. The people who put the original list together — Don McGahn and Leonard Leo — were concerned that conservatives would be concerned about Kavanaugh's endorsement of Judge Garland.

"Why was Kavanaugh later added to the list? Because he should have been on the list all along and there was no longer any political cost to having him on it."

Sep 13, 2018
being pushed through
Its not.

"...normally take, let me give you some sort of a ballpark rationale for what I just said. July 9th, the nominee is appointed by the President. Then usually, 65-70 days on average, Kagan took about 80-some days. So about two-thirds of that time would be used for staff and senators going over everything..." etc. Google for entire description.

-Dems are only claiming it is to try to slow it down. And those 10k docs are irrelevant. They've already been given far more than any other, with plenty of time to review.

Lie upon lie upon lie.

Sep 13, 2018
Flynn - "plea deal.....
Blah blah blah. The probe has been validated by the multiple indictments - and guilty verdicts. Otto is not capable of understanding a very basic point. If a special counsel is appointed - and obtains multiple indictments, and guilty verdicts - then the investigation is doing exactly what it was commissioned to do - ferret out illegal activity. There is much more to come. The plea deals signify multiple parties cooperating with the prosecutor - meaning he intends to fry bigger fish. We have no idea what cards have yet to be played. It is Otto who is stupid and on the wrong side of history. Can't even understand that Mueller does not have to prove collusion in order to be validated - as the commissioning document is clearly not limited to that one charge. Perhaps Otto should consult with q-annon, or Andrea Rossi in order to reveal the truth...

Sep 14, 2018
We dont know what it was commissioned to do.

"In July, the administration released the top secret application made by the FBI in 2016 to collect the communications of a onetime Trump campaign adviser, Carter Page. It was heavily redacted, with entire pages blacked out... Strzok... if he is revealed to have been the "federal officer making application" in the documents, that will stain the investigation all the more... reference to more than one person — and that this application specifically targets Page... Investigators concluded ... with a list of "activities"... what were they?... One of the challenges of understanding the Russia saga is the paucity of public evidence about it and the political agendas that underpin the release of what evidence exists."
https://www.npr.o...redacted

-This demonstrates just how much of your 'evidence' is made up (lies). Which is why it is redacted.

Sep 14, 2018
And so you have no basis to conclude that:
If a special counsel is appointed - and obtains multiple indictments, and guilty verdicts - then the investigation is doing exactly what it was commissioned to do - ferret out illegal activity
-And no, the special council does NOT have the right to ferret out ANY illegal activity ANYWHERE it sees fit.

This warrant is based on specific crimes alleged to have been committed by specific people. As you can see by the redactions we have no idea who or what they were.

And anyone who says we do, is lying.

But we can assume with confidence that the redactions are meant to hide the fact that the warrant was unjustified to begin with.

Why else?

Sep 14, 2018
But take heart - the truth will out!

"President Trump may soon double down on his strategy of releasing secret documents to undercut the Russia investigation by unveiling one with still fewer redactions — or none."

-And as I say, at the proper time, in the proper manner.

Thereby exposing all crimes and deceptions by all players who were left in their jobs to continue to commit crimes so that the American public could get a very real and accurate picture of just what the deep state is and what it has been doing to them and their country.

Which wouldn't have been possible if trump had purged them all when he took office.

Pretty clever eh?

Trump could have issued this doc unredacted himself, long ago. But letting them issue it all mucked up is another indication of what scumbags they are.

And it makes prosecution and conviction far easier.

Sep 14, 2018
BTW an indication of YOUR character - constantly 1/5 bitchslapping people while actively engaged in debating them. Most honorable posters regard that as tacky and distasteful.

But not you-

Sep 14, 2018
We dont know what it was commissioned to do
I linked a copy of the original letter from the A.G. - yes we do know what it was commissioned to do. Basic factual errors like that show that you don't know the subject matter.

-And no, the special council does NOT have the right to ferret out ANY illegal activity ANYWHERE it sees fit
It has the right to investigate any crimes that come to light through the course of the investigation. Once again - read the letter from the AG.
Any matters that arose, or may arise directly from the investigation
From a team of expert lawyers -
The Special Counsel is properly operating within the scope of his authority, including with respect to Manafort's ongoing criminal prosecution
https://www.usato...3574002/

Sep 14, 2018
Most honorable posters regard that as tacky and distasteful
Ahhh - so you define the terms of the use of the voting system! I don't really see this kind of exchange as 'debating' with you. More highlighting how poor your understanding of the issues are. I have great disdain for your bullying, thuggish behavior on Physorg - and make no apology for slapping your nonsense with ones. Feel free to ignore me. Honorable would be the last word I would think of when referring to you - especially after seeing the bully tactics you use when lashing out a gkam and others. Your racist taunts are sickening, so I am glad that it bothers you - and you feel bitch slapped.

Sep 14, 2018
What AG 'letter' was that? Does it include the info from the actual warrant, which was heavily redacted, with entire pages blacked out? Does it tell us if strozk was the "federal officer making application" in the documents, that will stain the investigation all the more... ? Does it say who the reference to more than one person besides Page is? — And with a list of "activities"... what were they?

The warrant came after your letter. The warrant defines the specifics. And the specifics were redacted.

Your team of expert lawyers are from the agency suspected of complicit in the coverup. The agency full of hrc operatives. The agency that redacted the warrant. Which is why we're not taking their word for anything.

Sep 14, 2018
BTW USA today quit reporting news a long time ago. An excerpt

"Manafort alleged that Mueller exceeded his authority and that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein — facing possible ouster by a fuming Trump in the wake of the memo's release — granted the special counsel "carte blanche to investigate and pursue criminal charges in connection with anything he stumbles across."

-True by the way. They use bias words like 'fuming' as well as trump instead of president, to discredit and demean. Not news, opinion.
so I am glad that it bothers you - and you feel bitch slapped
Sounds to me like you cant stand to lose, like you're losing here.

Explain why you think your AG letter is more definitive than the warrant. Hint: just saying it is isnt explaining HOW it is. You do see the difference yes?

Re gkam I know you're more than willing to defend liars, cheats, and psychopaths if they agree with you. Bitchslapper mentality. Shameful!

Sep 15, 2018
What AG 'letter' was that?
The one I linked to multiple times.
Sounds to me like you cant stand to lose, like you're losing here
No - I'm winning (sarcasm) - Sounds to me like you see every topic as zero sum. The logic of what I am saying is simple. The AG (top law enforcement official in the country) - gave Mueller a commission (that one I linked to multiple times - and you never read). Mueller is proceeding in accordance with that commission. The probe is validated - by the fact that Mueller has already attained multiple indictments, and guilty pleas/verdicts.
Explain why you think your AG letter is more definitive than the warrant
Not necessary. The validation of the probe is in the multiple indictments, and guilty pleas/verdicts. The system is working as designed. Bad guys are being prosecuted.

Sep 15, 2018
The AG (top law enforcement official in the country) - gave Mueller a commission
No that's not how it works. Evidence that neither the justice dept or the FBI do either:

"BI & DOJ CORRUPTION
FEDERAL BUREAU OF "INVESTIGATION"
James Comey, Director – FIRED
Andrew McCabe, Deputy Director - FIRED
Jim Rybicki, Chief of Staff and Senior Counselor – FIRED
James Baker, General Counsel – FIRED
Bill Priestap, Director of Counterintelligence (Strzok's boss) – Cooperating witness [power removed]
Peter Strzok, Deputy Assistant Director of Counterintelligence – FIRED
Lisa Page, Office of General Counsel – FIRED/FORCED
Mike Kortan, Assistant Director for Public Affairs – FIRED
Josh Campbell, Special Assistant to Comey – FIRED
Michael Steinbach -
John Glacalone -
Randy Coleman -
Trisha Anderson -
Kevin Clinesmith -
Tashina Gauhar -
Sally Moyer -"
-cont>

Sep 15, 2018
"DEPARTMENT OF "JUSTICE"
David Laufman, Chief of the Justice Department's Counterintelligence and Export Control Section [NAT SEC - HRC email invest] - FIRED/FORCE
John Carlin, Assistant Attorney General – Head of DOJ's National Security Division - FIRED/FORCED
Sally Yates, Deputy Attorney General & Acting Attorney General - FIRED
Mary McCord, Acting Assistant Attorney General – Acting Head of DOJ's National Security Division - FIRED/FORCED
Bruce Ohr, Associate Deputy Attorney General – Demoted 2x - cooperating witness [power removed] - TERMINATION IMMINENT
Rachel Brand, Associate Attorney General – No. 3 official behind Deputy AG Rosenstein - FIRED/FORCED"
-etc. The swamp is being drained from bottom to top. Of course there's lots of squealing and wailing. Lots more to come.

-Rosensteins letter is typical: "do anything you want for as long as you want"

-But he still needs FISA warrants. Those warrants were obtained illegally, and DOJ/FBI is covering this up.

Sep 15, 2018
Which is why

"Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein is under investigation... It was obvious that a fraud was committed on the court… We can no longer trust the department under Rosenstein, who by the way, he's got a big problem with FISA… He's now under investigation and he can't do FISAs anymore."

-Thats right. The AG who wrote your letter has also lost the authority to sign FISA warrants because he abused that authority.
The validation of the probe is in the multiple indictments, and guilty pleas/verdicts. The system is working as designed
The system was misused to surveil and malign US citizens for political reasons.
Bad guys are being prosecuted.
The bad guys are the prosecutors.

Consider that these counter-investigations could ultimately lead to vacating the convictions of all your 'bad guys'.

And a whole host of new ones. See above lists. Include the clintons and their toadies.

Sep 15, 2018
No that's not how it works. Evidence that neither the justice dept or the FBI do either

Yes it is how it works...

The special counsel was appointed by Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general

https://www.bbc.c...39961732
The validation of the probe - is in the indictments, and guilty pleas/verdicts obtained to date.
The judges who approved the FISA warrants were all Republican appointees - as is the AG. The Senate unanimously confirmed him. The facts to date completely support the validity of the investigation - and there is clearly so much more to come. I am sure q-anon - your imaginary friend in the blogosphere can imagine up many more conspiracy theories. The deep state goes back to the illuminati - don't you know? Oooh buga buga...

Sep 15, 2018
And like my refs say, those judges were duped.

"With the release of the House Intelligence Committee Memo, it is manifestly clear that the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the FBI participated in a fraud on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) in order to surveil Carter Page, a U.S. citizen. The FBI and the DOJ deliberately and intentionally advanced unverified opposition research paid for by one political party (the Democratic National Committee) designed to harm the opposing party by creating a fictional Russian collusion story as reliable fact. All this took place in the midst of a U.S. presidential election. "
The facts to date completely support the validity of the investigation
No because the warrants were obtained illegally. And we dont know the extent of that illegality because they were redacted to cover up crimes and protect the guilty.

Sep 15, 2018
Republican appointees - as is the AG. The Senate unanimously confirmed him
So you're saying republicans cant be crooks? Boy you ARE dumb.
and there is clearly so much more to come
You bet.

Sept 13, 2018 "Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said Thursday that he would renew a call for an independent counsel to investigate Republican allegations of bias at the Department of Justice (DOJ) and FBI.

"Graham claimed in an interview with conservative radio host Laura Ingraham that a text message exchange between two former FBI officials focused on by House Republicans "is just one of a series of events that scream for a special counsel."

"The South Carolina senator, who has been an ally of President Trump, said he intends to send a letter to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein asking that the Justice Department appoint an independent counsel to investigate alleged bias at the DOJ and the FBI."

At the proper time, in the proper way.

Sep 15, 2018
"A Time for Everything
3 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under the heavens:"
Ecc3

Sep 15, 2018
So you're saying republicans cant be crooks? Boy you ARE dumb
No I am not saying that. Boy are you dumb. However - if one wants to suggest that this is a conspiracy - by the Democrats - that is stupid.
And like my refs say, those judges were duped
Well then - so much for your theory that we have to defer to authority. Cuz those judges, and the A.G. - are most certainly authorities. And the fact that multiple indictments, convictions, and guilty pleas - validate the work of the investigation - and tell us clearly that the judges were not duped. It aint that complex Otto - you just want to make it complex - cuz you don't like the process. My experts say that the process is very valid - so your whole argument of how you know best - cuz you have experts who say so - is childish. The FACTS are clear - the investigation is on track - doing it's job - and bad guys are getting prosecuted.

Sep 15, 2018
The investigation to date has cost around $16 million. $10 million budgeted for next year.
Brought in around $40 million in asset seizures to date. I guess the argument you made earlier about the cost of the investigation - for very few results - is just blown out the water. Boy you are dumb...

Sep 15, 2018
Well then - so much for your theory that we have to defer to authority.
Ahaahaaa are you saying authorities cant be duped? Dumb and dumber.
The investigation to date has cost around $16 million. $10 million budgeted for next year. Brought in around $40 million in asset seizures to date. I guess the argument you made earlier about the cost of the investigation - for very few results - is just blown out the water. Boy you are dumb...
Yeah theyll have to give all that back too. Shucks.

Sep 15, 2018
"A federal judge has ordered annual ethics classes for Justice Department attorneys as a punishment for being "intentionally deceptive" during litigation over President Obama's executive immigration orders.

""Such conduct is certainly not worthy of any department whose name includes the word 'Justice,'" U.S. District Judge Andrew Hanen wrote in a withering order released Thursday.

"Justice Department attorneys misled the court about when the Department of Homeland Security would begin implementing President Obama's executive order granting "deferred action" to illegal immigrants whose children are citizens..." Published May 19, 2016

-Same obama DOJ, same lying cheating legacy. Punishment should be a little more... severe this time.

Sep 15, 2018
Ahaahaaa are you saying authorities cant be duped? Dumb and dumber
Nope - I am saying one needs to be consistent in the arguments being given. If I must yield to your arguments - cuz you have experts who express an opinion (I disagree with this reasoning) - then you must defer to all experts. I on the other hand - am suggesting that the facts are very clear - and I don't have to defer to 'experts.' Let me repeat - the investigation is acting within the scope of it's commission (factually demonstrated by the provision of the commissioning document, and the obvious fact that the probe is in alignment with this document.) The investigation is validated by the fact - that it has obtained multiple indictments, guilty pleas and verdicts. An analogy would be - I was told to go look for oil - I believed there was oil in such and such rock formation, when I drilled into the formation, oil came out.....As the oil is coming out of the pipe - you are screaming "that's not possible."

Sep 15, 2018
(I disagree with this reasoning) - then you must defer to all experts
This is pretty extreme bullshit even for you. I gave you only one example of judges being deceived by DOJ lawyers. Which you called
judges, and the A.G. - are most certainly authorities.

Sep 15, 2018
The investigation is validated by the fact - that it has obtained multiple indictments, guilty pleas and verdicts
An analogy would be if you told me there was gold in a bank and the bank mgr told you it was alright for me to go and take it.

Time for a refund.

Recent article here on physorg about 'confirmation bias' - read to find out where your head is stuck.

Sep 15, 2018
The investigation is validated by the fact - that it has obtained multiple indictments, guilty pleas and verdicts
An analogy... this is like saying its ok to persecute negros because you were actually able to lynch some.

But we know this isnt the case.

Sep 15, 2018
Heres a very comprehensive new article in National Review that addresses (and pretty much trashes) all your above arguments.
https://www.natio...ccarthy/
(Link from qanon)

-Written by Andrew McCarthy III, a former assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. He led the 1995 terrorism prosecution against Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman and eleven others.

IOW expert.

Sep 16, 2018
An analogy... this is like saying its ok to persecute negros because you were actually able to lynch some
It is nothing like saying it's ok to persecute negros - that is bizarre. Manafort, Cohen etc. are criminals. They have broken the law. Tax fraud, bank fraud, etc. What a stupid thing to say.
IOW expert
And as I keep emphasizing - you can find experts on all sides of an issue. So claiming that you have 'won' because you quote an 'expert' who expresses one particular view point - shows that you are stupid - and don't understand a very basic point of logic - that I have presented over and over.
The FACTS are - that Mueller is working within the constraints of his commission (already demonstrated) - and the validation of the probe - are the indictments, and guilty pleas/verdicts obtained to date.
A Republican AG, and 4 Republican appointed judges (all experts) saw the evidence, and concurred that it met the standards to authorize a special counsel.

Sep 16, 2018
Oh so sorry i didnt link the actual article
https://www.natio...ication/
Manafort, Cohen etc. are criminals. They have broken the law. Tax fraud, bank fraud, etc
From the NatRev article: "FISA authorities are not criminal-law authorities. It is not just that FISA is not designed to ferret out evidence of crime; it is not permitted to be used for that purpose. FISA's objective is the collection of foreign intelligence, the gathering of information about the actions and intentions of foreign powers that may threaten American interests."
What a stupid thing to say
Thought it would shut you up. I'll have to try harder.

Sep 16, 2018
saw evidence
"There is an exception. It is not unique to FISA; it is a common-sense exception that applies across the board in federal law: If investigators are conducting a legitimate investigation, and they unexpectedly stumble upon evidence of a crime, they are not required to ignore it even if it wasn't what they were looking for in the first place...

"There is nothing remarkable about this exception. Everybody knows about it. It would never be spelled out in a normal search warrant... [if it was] it would be suggestive of an unconstitutional "general warrant" — it would intimate that the government's real agenda was to find evidence beyond what they had probable cause to search for... It suggests that the overarching objective is to make a criminal case, not to collect foreign intelligence."

-which they're not allowed to do.

I'll be quoting exclusively from this article from now on. Read it and save yourself some embarrassment.

Sep 16, 2018
FISA's objective is the collection of foreign intelligence
And one of the issues being explored by the investigation is foreign intelligence. Manafort, Gates, Flynn - were all working for foreign governments - and failed to register the fact - as required by law.
Now give it a rest - you are wrong. The Mueller investigation - is proceeding within the confines of it's commission. The investigation is validated by the multiple indictments, guilty pleas/verdicts that have been obtained to date - and there is clearly much more to come.
It suggests that the overarching objective is to make a criminal case, not to collect foreign intelligence.
It 'suggests' - but it does not prove. There is much more to come from the investigation. Judges, the AG and a grand jury are all overseeing this probe. If there is over-reach - you can sue them can't you? Get the whole thing thrown out. I dare you.

Sep 16, 2018
Thought it would shut you up. I'll have to try harder
Translation "I am an idiot. I got caught saying something really stupid (yet again). Oh well - I'll say something else stupid - and move on."

Sep 16, 2018
The investigation is validated by the multiple indictments, guilty pleas/verdicts that have been obtained to date
"FISA authorities are not criminal-law authorities. It is not just that FISA is not designed to ferret out evidence of crime; it is not permitted to be used for that purpose."

"Based on this fear that FISA could be used pretextually to conduct criminal investigations, the Clinton Justice Department imposed "The Wall." To prevent investigators from exploiting FISA to steer criminal investigations, a barrier was imposed between the FBI's counterintelligence agents, on one side, and criminal investigators and prosecutors, on the other. It became practically impossible for the two sides to cooperate and share information."
and there is clearly much more to come
What makes you think that?

Sep 16, 2018
"After 9/11, The Wall came down. Its razing was endorsed by such experienced hands as your humble correspondent. We argued that it was ridiculous to believe the FBI would pretextually use FISA to conduct a criminal investigation. Many times I posited that, even if we assume a rogue agent, it would be far easier for the rogue to fabricate the evidence needed to get a criminal wiretap than to fabricate a national-security angle so he could use FISA...

"I was wrong.

"in the Trump investigation, headquarters became the investigator... the Obama Justice Department and FBI withheld information... from the FISA court about the source of their information (the Clinton campaign), and about the apparent apparent dishonesty and deep bias of their main witness (Christopher Steele), even as they presented unverified allegations to the FISA court, flouting FBI guidelines."

-ie lying scum. You think thats ok though - anything to bring down trump, right?

Sep 16, 2018
"The Wall was removed to promote information-sharing and thus prevent terrorist attacks. Yet its removal did not change the fundamental rules. If agents have a factual basis to believe a crime has been or is being committed, the FBI opens a criminal investigation and uses criminal authorities. If, instead, the main purpose of the investigation is to gather foreign intelligence, the FBI opens a counterintelligence investigation and may use FISA. It remains improper to make pretextual use of FISA to conduct a criminal investigation when there is no factual basis to believe a crime has been committed. Yes, if agents conducting a good-faith FISA investigation incidentally discover evidence of a crime, they are not required to ignore it; but this sensible rule is not a license to conduct a FISA investigation with the objective of unearthing criminal evidence."
I got caught saying something really stupid
Lives and careers are being ruined, families destroyed, lives lost.

Sep 16, 2018
it is not permitted to be used for that purpose.
But special prosecutors are. The FISA warrants were approved by the judges. If you are so adamant that this is not legal - sue them. Take it to the supreme court - I dare you.

Lives and careers are being ruined, families destroyed, lives lost
What lives have been lost as a result of the Mueller probe? Are you talking about lives being ruined - as in Manafort, Flynn, Cohen etc? Good - they are criminals - thugs - assholes - I am glad they have been brought to justice.
anything to bring down trump, right?
No - not at all. But I am glad the system is working the way it is supposed to. Trump is a thug, who has spent his life in the company of organized crime. If it brings him down - I will be very pleased. I await the final report from Mueller with baited breath. If Mueller finds Trump committed no crimes - so be it...

Sep 16, 2018
What makes you think that?
Manafort just flipped. Mueller had him by the balls. The only way it makes any sense for Mueller to grant a plea deal - is if Manafort had very powerful evidence - probably against people above him (read Trump jr, Kushner, Trump). Mueller is working with so many flippers right now - Flynn, Pecker, Papadopolous, Cohen, Manafort, Gates... There are reasons Trump would not disclose his taxes. The financial web is thick.
Maybe minor shit - like how he lies about how much he is worth. Maybe much bigger shit - like payments from the Ruskies. We know the quid, now we wait to see the pro quo. Time will tell...https://www.theda...-j-trump

Sep 17, 2018
Fascinating how folks like you and MR - will present yourselves as Conservatives. You hate 'liberals' cuz they are soft on crime - unless it is the crime of your people. What did Manafort do for his $60 million from Ukraine?
Of course Manafort was paid grey money and sent it to offshore accounts—that is what everybody does. Ukraine has always been corrupt.
https://www.theda...f=scroll
Selling our government to cronies is no problem for you - https://chicago.s...o-gates/

Your hypocrisy knows no limits.

Sep 17, 2018
But special prosecutors are
AGAIN - no they're not.

"It remains improper to make pretextual use of FISA to conduct a criminal investigation when there is no factual basis to believe a crime has been committed." Ie the reason for the Wall.
The FISA warrants were approved by the judges
AGAIN - the judges were LIED to.

"the Obama Justice Department and FBI withheld information about the Trump investigation from Congress — even though the "Gang of Eight" was supposed to receive quarterly briefings on sensitive matters. They withheld essential information from the FISA court about the source of their information (the Clinton campaign), and about the apparent dishonesty and deep bias of their main witness (Christopher Steele), even as they presented unverified allegations to the FISA court, flouting FBI guidelines"

-So you're not even reading my posts now?

Sep 17, 2018
Manafort just flipped
No he didnt. Nothing to flip. Thats the same lie the lying media proclaimed after each of the other convictions.

And you fell for it then too.
If you are so adamant that this is not legal - sue them. Take it to the supreme court - I dare you
Ha now you're sounding like your psycho buddy gkam. It's like when you say
Your hypocrisy knows no limits
-its as if you think you're talking to columnists and officials whose judgements I merely repeat.

Otto wont be suing anybody. But these people will be dealt with for the crimes they committed. Including HRC. And if anand when it reaches the supreme court it will be a very conservative court indeed.

Sep 17, 2018
No he didnt
Yes he did - https://www.vox.c...wer-flip
its as if you think you're talking to columnists and officials whose judgements I merely repeat
No - i'm talking to you. You present yourself as a Conservative. That would be someone who supports the idea of law and order. But a vipers den of criminals (Manafort, Cohen, Flynn, etc.) all selling out your country - and "Meh - no big deal." Total hypocrisy.
So you're not even reading my posts now?
Just skimming over them. When you see clearly that you are interacting with someone who does not share the same set of facts that you do - not much point - is there? Fact - Mueller is acting within the scope of his commission. Fact - multiple indictments, guilty pleas/verdict - 100% validate the investigation. Many of us are waiting eagerly for the final outcome.

Sep 17, 2018
we know the quid
You do know that daily beast rubbish is fiction right? But thing is true...
"illegally hacked emails belonging to the Democratic Party..."

-The crimes disclosed in those docs were all true.
lives lost
"Professor at Center of Trump-Russia Probe Goes Missing"

Not the first nor the last.
What did Manafort do for his $60 million from Ukraine?
What did bill and hillary do for all that russian money?

"17 "Key Partners" contributed between $6.5 million and $23.5 million to the Clinton Foundation... Skolkovo is arguably an overt alternative to clandestine industrial espionage... "Our goal is to help strengthen Russia." - hillary"

-One of many.
Trump is a thug
No hes not. Wharton school grad, author, self-made entrepreneur and billionaire. And duly elected president.
has spent his life in the company of organized crime
No more so than the clintons, the bushes, the kennedys, etc.

Sep 17, 2018
But these people will be dealt with
And Rossi will have the e-cat in production - any day now - just trust me - experts have told me......

Sep 17, 2018
Professor at Center of Trump-Russia Probe Goes Missing
Lives lost - is plural. And you presented no evidence that someone was dead - just that they had gone "off the radar."

Holy shit......

Sep 17, 2018
yes he did
No he didnt.

"Manafort has agreed to fully cooperate, and so could potentially tell us whether the official story about the meeting is true — or whether it's a cover for a much more significant interaction, one that might prove the Trump campaign did in fact collude with the Russians."

-He could, he might, got to be something there, same lying bullshit media spin. Again, fiction. Hype.
Just skimming over them
-Sure. Looking for confirmation bias.

My phone cant take this thread any more.

Sep 17, 2018
Sure. Looking for confirmation bias
Absolutely. And of course - you are totally objective - and would never engage in confirmation bias - like believing that Rossi is about to show the world his e-cat, and we are all going to be able to buy one next week (how many years have you been saying that?)
He could, he might, got to be something there
Sigh - logic is not your strong point - is it? Mueller has Manafort by the balls. He already got 8 counts against him, and 10 counts that got 11 of the 12 jurors voting guilty. Facing a second trial in DC - with stronger evidence than the last trial, and a less sympathetic judge. States are lining up to get a piece of Manafort. Legal experts agree - that Mueller would not give Manafort a plea deal - unless Manafort had already given up some very valuable information. Mueller already knows what he is getting.

Sep 17, 2018
What is this ecat crap? Rossi got a wig so I know hes a fake. Trumps hair in contrast, is real. Hyper-real. Sur-real.
Mueller has Manafort by the balls
And hecan sqtthtthosethtthoas hard as he wants.

Note my phone issues.

Sep 17, 2018
"Manafort was an adviser to the U.S. presidential campaigns of Republicans Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Bob Dole." Hmmm perhaps they were russian agents as well...

Trump campaign mgr from 06-20-16 to 08-20-16 [that's right, 2 months]; fired 2 days after trumps first security briefing.

"June 9, 2016, Manafort, Donald Trump Jr., and Jared Kushner were participants in a meeting with Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya and several others at Trump Tower."

-The meeting was a setup. I would assume manafort was complicit in using it to discredit trump. Sounds like trump smelled a rat and threw him out.

So any revelations from this convicted thief, foreign agent, and liar wouldn't be especially credible now would they?

Sep 17, 2018
What is this ecat crap?
You've been plugging Rossi and Mills for years. We keep telling you it's bullshit - but you don't seem to have the critical thinking skills to understand how to evaluate such things. That fact seems pe