Drivers of hate in the U.S. have distinct regional differences

February 9, 2018 by Lisa Potter, University of Utah
Reported by the Southern Poverty Law Center, 2000-2014. Credit: Medina et al., 2018, Taylor & Francis 2018

In a new study, University of Utah geographers sought to understand the factors fueling hate across space. Their findings paint a rather grim reality of America; hate is a national phenomenon, and more complicated than they imagined.

The researchers mapped the patterns of active hate groups in every U.S. county in the year 2014, and analyzed their potential socioeconomic and ideological drivers.

They found that in all U.S. regions, less education, population change, and ethnic diversity correlated with more hate groups, as did areas with higher poverty rates and more conservative political affiliation. The magnitude of the drivers had regional differences, however. The regional variation of the proposed drivers of hate may be a result of diverse ethnic and cultural histories. One surprising finding is that the geographical region seemed to determine whether religion has a positive or negative relative effect on the number of hate groups for the county.

The U geographers assert that organized hate is motivated by the desire to protect a place from the perceived threats that 'outsiders' pose to identity and socioeconomic security. The contemporary expression, 'hate,' is shaped by the intermingling histories and present-day conditions of a place.

"There is a lot of uncertainty in the country today, and a lot of change. For those involved in hate activities, they see their actions as a way to secure the future of their . Unfortunately, that fear turns to hate, and in the worst case, violence," said Richard Medina, assistant professor in the Department of Geography at the U, and senior author of the study.

The relative effect of four socioeconomic factors on the number of hate groups per 1,000 people for US counties in 2014. Red indicates that the factor has a positive effect on the number of hate groups in the county, blue indicates that the variable has a negative effect on the number of hate groups in the county, and a darker shade indicates a stronger effect. Credit: Richard Medina adapted from Medina et al., 2018, Taylor & Francis 2018

"Hate is a geographic problem. The ways people hate are based on the cultures, histories, ethnicities and many other factors dependent on place and place perception."

The study published online in the Annals of the American Association of Geographers on Feb. 9, 2018.

A grim reality

"When thinking about hate and place, it really boils down to thinking about identity," said Emily Nicolosi, co-author and doctoral student at the U. "Some people have strong feelings about who belongs, and who doesn't belong in 'their' place. When they see people coming in that they think don't belong, their very identity feels threatened."

A hate group is an organized group or ideology with beliefs or practices that malign an entire class of people due to their immutable characteristics, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). Whether it be their race, gender, religion, ethnicity, disability, or sexual orientation, a hate group expresses prejudice against people with a particular identity. Though hate has always existed, 2016 saw a near-high in the number of hate groups in the United States, according to the SPLC. There is still much to learn about how Americans hate, and why.

The relative effect of ideological factors on the number of hate groups per 1,000 people for US counties in 2014. Credit: Richard Medina adapted from Medina et al., 2018, Taylor & Francis 2018

The researchers mapped active hate groups for every U.S. county using the SPLC database from 2014. They compared the relationships between these groups with the county's socioeconomic factors, meant to represent diversity, poverty, education level and population stability, and ideological factors, represented as religion and degree of conservativism.

"People hate for different reasons because U.S. regions have different situations and histories. For example, the Northeast is a place of power that may be seen as elitist and well-educated. Is there still hate? Yes. Some of the reasons people hate there are different than in the South, where there's a different history of the Confederacy, of discrimination, and so on," said Nicolosi.

While this is not the first study to quantify hate groups at the county level, it is one of the first to look more regionally and analyze variations in space explicitly. Previous research has focused on why people hate, but all populations are typically analyzed together in a national model. Until now, the drivers of hate have never been differentiated for specific places.

What's next?

Medina and Nicolosi want to analyze the differences between different types of hate groups, and whether are linked to violent behavior.

"First and foremost, I want our paper to help people understand how much we don't know about hate—hate is not a uniform phenomenon. Hopefully this study motivates people to start asking more questions, especially right now," said Medina. "We have a long way to go before we really understand the drivers and patterns of hate in this country."

Explore further: Alcohol acts as igniter of hate crimes

More information: Annals of the American Association of Geographers, DOI: 10.1080/24694452.2017.1411247

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Thorium Boy
2.1 / 5 (16) Feb 09, 2018
White poor get thrown together with non-white minorities due to income, housing costs, etc. White liberals who say they believe in uniting people are generally educated, upper-middle or upper class and by virtue of their incomes have little to do with the non-whites they claim to have no problem with. Lack of experience with racial and cultural differences and friction it causes means the "eastern liberals" really have no solid foundation upon which to base their opinions.
mackita
4.4 / 5 (7) Feb 09, 2018
Poor inhabitants are most physically threatened by lost of occupation, for example as the result of wrong immigration politics. This is something, which people with higher social status cannot understand. But I wouldn't call this hate - just the result of pure conflict of interests. In similar way the rich people hate these who prohibits them in filling the market by cheap labor force. The labeling these feelings as irrational doesn't help the solving of source of their problems.
aeolius
2 / 5 (7) Feb 09, 2018
The authors are dancing around to find yet not find "Culture" which is pretty much what they are trying to describe. Yet because Culture has a quasi-genetic definition. Which in our present Culture, is verboten. I read somewhere that "Brown vs the Board" decision also declared that there is only Nurture,not Nature. And that we are stuck in a Behaviorist society.
Wrong. "Black Lives Matter" is an expression of the desire of that group to maintain their culture. As do St.Patrick day parades, the Indian, Hawaiian etc "Ways of Life".
Hate will emerge when this identity is threatened. As is happening in the great homogenization of our current PC culture. But the reaction to a cultural threat is as real as to a physical threat.
The place to look for which groups hate is to look at where existential threats to that groups identity is strongest.
dogbert
2.6 / 5 (16) Feb 09, 2018
They found that in all U.S. regions, less education, population change, and ethnic diversity correlated with more hate groups, as did areas with higher poverty rates and more conservative political affiliation.


Notice that the authors specifically mentioned conservative political views as a cause of hate while never mentioning liberal political views. If you doubt that liberals hate, you need only to have seen the recent state of the union address and watched the hate dripping from the liberals.
dirk_bruere
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 09, 2018
What about "Mild Dislike" - is there no nuance?
Anonym
3.9 / 5 (15) Feb 09, 2018
@dogbert: It was liberals, of course, who founded America on the concept of Liberty. It was conservatives who supported the British. Two hundred years later, they still do, only substitute Russian fascism for British toryism. You need to reconsider your loyalties.

What liberals really hate is slavery, poverty, ignorance and of course, bigots. (Is hating bigots a form of bigotry?)


dogbert
2.4 / 5 (14) Feb 09, 2018
Anonym,
I won't comment on your beliefs about the people who founded America. You are welcome to your own beliefs.

Something which is always apparent is the continual hate and intolerance of liberals. They will not compromise or work toward a consensus because their hatred gets in the way of rational behavior.
Turgent
2.8 / 5 (12) Feb 09, 2018
If the author is properly synopsizing this paper then the paper is worse than trash. It utilizes of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Go to https://www.splcenter.org/ and see some of their 917 hate groups. People who believe in the support of marriage are on the list. The Southern Poverty Law Center's 'Hate List' has all the authority of a mean girl's burn book. Citing the SPLC is equivalent to praising the KKK as a community organizer group. The parody in Blues Brothers movie makes a parody of media hyped hate groups. There is an amazing and thought provoking look into hate (or not hate) and behavior of violence against members of a community available at https://www.youtu...QI6zl-c. This is not a Holocaust event.
MR166
2.1 / 5 (11) Feb 09, 2018
The SPLC is a hate group. This paper epitomises the problems with our educational system. There are no diversity of viewpoints. If the viewpoint is not PC it is not acceptable.
rhugh1066
2.1 / 5 (14) Feb 09, 2018
Anyone notice how it's always the Antifa mobs and the BLM mobs who burn, loot and generally threaten anyone who isn't "with them"? Violence is their first go-to tactic. And how about the Jew-hate that flows unremarked throughout all modern world liberalism? It sometimes actually seems that the left is trying to provoke some sort of civil war in America. If they ever succeed, I have a feeling they're in for a helluva unpleasant surprise.
MR166
1.4 / 5 (9) Feb 09, 2018
1066 you are correct. What never fails to amaze me is the number of Jewish liberals that support movements that are anti-semite. They will support radical muslims before they would support a conservative cause.
Turgent
1 / 5 (7) Feb 09, 2018
The documentary I wanted to cite is:
https://www.youtu...-7uW08NA

The paper is at: http://www.tandfo....1411247

From the Abstract: "Linear and spatial filtering with eigenvector (SFE) models are used to infer relationships between socioeconomic and ideological variables and the number of hate groups within U.S. counties." Yeah rah rah they have quantified it with complex math. Do these guys believe their own excrement.
Turgent
1.8 / 5 (10) Feb 09, 2018
@dogbert: It was liberals, of course, who founded America on the concept of Liberty. It was conservatives who supported the British. Two hundred years later, they still do, only substitute Russian fascism for British toryism. You need to reconsider your loyalties.

What liberals really hate is slavery, poverty, ignorance and of course, bigots. (Is hating bigots a form of bigotry?)



May I suggest you get a better understanding of colonial history. A start would be religious revival history of the 1740s and foundation of the English relationship. It was the Brits that did the most to end slavery.
MR166
1.4 / 5 (9) Feb 09, 2018
"It sometimes actually seems that the left is trying to provoke some sort of civil war in America. If they ever succeed, I have a feeling they're in for a helluva unpleasant surprise."

This is all part of the plan to burn Western culture to the ground and resurrect from its ashes the New World Order aka the One World Government. That is the liberal cause that they are willing to sacrifice us for. Remember, in their mind the end always justifies the means and 10s of millions of deaths are a small price to pay for this goal.
MR166
1.5 / 5 (8) Feb 09, 2018
It is pretty much obvious that the all wars in the ME are part of that plan. Bush and Obama had the same goal and were puppets of the same master. The mass migration into Europe shows the power of the plan and the ignorance and/or complacency of Europeans in general. Soon they will have no rights at all, not even the right to THINK let alone express a non PC thought. There will be an implanted chip for that. Of course it will be for your own safety.
rrwillsj
3.7 / 5 (18) Feb 09, 2018
Lots of comments from the Global Fascist Axis.

The problem the altright fairytails have, is their own hypocrisy. Before Putz Putin made the Trumpster the Bogus POTUS? The neocon-artists whined the "Original" Constitution should be reinstated. Carefully avoiding mentioning a specific version of that dynamic guideline.

Now, under the fascist occupation, the quislings just as carefully ignore all those embarrassing articles such as the First Amendment and the Emoluments Clause.

They glorify the rump half of the Second Amendment. Realizing that they could not pass the mental health tests to be permitted to join their official State Militias.

Several years ago, during the bombast over the revival of secession from the Federal Union. I just shrugged my shoulders. The secessionists predecessors were traitors a 160 years ago. They are traitors today. Their successors will be traitors a century from now. Ho-Hum, just the ebb and flow of American history.
-cont'd-
rrwillsj
3.9 / 5 (11) Feb 09, 2018
-cont'd-

What surprised me was my emotional response to their treasonous behavior! Thinking about my feelings I came to the realization that I felt regret and sorrow.

That the secessionists were deliberately breaking the Oaths of Loyalty they had sworn to the Federal Union. And for obedience to elected officers and appointed officials.

In violating these Sacred Oaths? The secessionists were condemning themselves to eternal damnation.

I actually pity all you altright fairytails. God sitting Judgement, will not at all be amused by your groveling and beseeching for mercy.
MR166
1.8 / 5 (10) Feb 09, 2018
" Before Putz Putin made the Trumpster the Bogus POTUS? "

RRW so far the only Russian collusion that has been proven is between Russia and the Democrats. Wait a few years and CNN will get around to making it public. Until then you will continue to be ignorant in ill informed.
cantdrive85
2.1 / 5 (11) Feb 09, 2018
It was liberals, of course, who founded America on the concept of Liberty

What an utterly moronic statement! Libertarians are not liberals. Libertarians are self-reliant, hard working, moral individuals which is directly opposite of the dependent, lazy, morally corrupt POS's that call themselves liberals.
MR166
1.4 / 5 (10) Feb 09, 2018
I would give you a 5 Cantdrive but there are quite a few hard working liberals. Unfortunately they are hard at work giving away other peoples money.
MR166
1 / 5 (9) Feb 09, 2018
I am taking a short survey RRW. Would you consider Fox News to be an alt-right source of news?
tblakely1357
1.7 / 5 (12) Feb 09, 2018
Missed the largest hate group of all.... leftists.
ab3a
2.1 / 5 (14) Feb 09, 2018
The foundation of this paper is based upon political views of what "hate" is. For example, many second amendment rights groups, even comparatively mainstream groups such as the NRA, have been labeled as "hate" groups. As such, any conclusion from the paper is no more impartial than the politics that created it.

What a waste.
tekram
4.6 / 5 (10) Feb 09, 2018
Elliot Rodger, the 22‐year‐old who killed six minority students in the college town of Isla Vista in 2014, was the first "alt‐right killer" to strike in recent years, according to a new report from the Southern Poverty Law Center.
The report counts Rodger among 13 alt‐right killers whose actions left 43 people dead and more than 60 injured since 2014.
These are the kind of 'good people' that Trump and Bannon's fake populism appeals to.

http://www.latime...ory.html
Dug
1 / 5 (1) Feb 09, 2018
Study makes some rather large and suspicious assumptions that hate group data bases are well defined and maintained. It would be interesting to see how many "hate" groups register as such.
sirdumpalot
5 / 5 (6) Feb 10, 2018
Hate is just irrational conceptualization. Seeing fundamentals in a non-fundamental world by 'delineating a delineation'. People are generally the same, their societies are generally the same, and their individual and group reactions are further mirrored by more samesy reaction. Human minds just reflect each other's emotional states relative to some identified individual or group. Always best to chill and stay rational.
mackita
1 / 5 (2) Feb 10, 2018
Well, exactly: once some large group of people exhibits "hate", then their stance always has objective - not just subjective reason.
It would be interesting to see how many "hate" groups register as such.
Of course, the "haters" can be often just a propagandist, i.e. pejorative term for normal political opposition.
MR166
1 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
"Of course, the "haters" can be often just a propagandist, i.e. pejorative term for normal political opposition."

Calling people with different viewpoints "Haters" is a relatively new phenomenon. The term makes any compromise between the sides impossible. This is not by accident it is purposeful and needed to produce the planned riots.
MR166
1 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
Tekram you know that the riot that you referred to started when some radical leftists attacked a peaceful march by the radical right. Trump tried to defuse the situation by claiming that there were good people on both sides. Of course the press did not want to defuse the situation and used his words to increase tensions.
MR166
1.4 / 5 (9) Feb 10, 2018
The hypocrisy of the Left never fails to amaze me. While claiming to be pro love and anti war in practice they are not either. Was there so much as one protest about Obama's ME wars no. Meanwhile their campaign slogan of "Love trumps hate." did not last past November. Their pure unadulterated hatred of Trump and the people who elected him has been displayed every day since the election.
shadybail
not rated yet Feb 10, 2018
What about the Ad Hominoids on this site? Are they mostly liberal or conservative?

If Ad Hominoids band together, is it a troll hate group? Maybe like TrollsLivesMatter or the NAATP.
Turgent
1.7 / 5 (11) Feb 10, 2018
And then there is what the Left could have done and does. In 2008 I could not feel comfortable voting for either candidate. When Obama won I hoped he would be one of the most successful presidents ever. Being he was Black he had such credentials and opportunity to disarm discord among Americans. Instead he proved to be a racist from the start. Remember "Stupid [white] cop", other crap "could have been my son", and all the things he didn't do. Instead he wanted to increase the divide for political purposes. There is no cost to great for the Left. And Trump makes stupid comments?
koitsu
4.5 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
Wow, the comments for this article validate the findings! Unless most of these posters are bots, then I'm absolutely stunned!

Most posters reveal themselves as conservatives (whom the article implied are more likely to perceive threats) by immediately criticizing all those ivory tower liberals, "the left," etc., &c.

This seems to upset you. Why? I don't care about what you might post here because I'm the post-and-leave type, but consider it. Why do you immediately write off something like this as "flim flam from those ignorant educated folk"? This question is for you when you're sitting there in your own mind, not interacting with other people, only facing yourself, thinking about life. Is there any cognitive dissonance you're dealing with? Is there any fear? Are you being honest with yourself? Is it ever reasonable to draw judgments about other people without knowing their circumstances? If not, is this something individuals and the species overall should seek to improve at?
MR166
1 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
Despite the fact that Trump does put his foot in his mouth on occasion the candor is refreshing. Even his comment about sh!thole nations has been said by many others. He should have used the more PC phrase,,,,Turd World Nations. OK that was not my brilliance, I read it on another post. Trump is trying to keep his campaign promises to the best of his ability considering the deep state Republicans also want him out. If the deep state does succeed it does not bode well for the Bill of Rights or the Constitution.
MR166
1 / 5 (9) Feb 10, 2018
What separates Turd World Nations from the rest of the world is not their people but their corrupt governments.
gkam
3.5 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
This is not really about hate, it is about the manifestation of FEAR.

These conservative folk are scared of life. I am sick of coddling them.
mackita
2.7 / 5 (7) Feb 10, 2018
These conservative folk are scared of life. I am sick of coddling them.
Yep - they're scared of life in radical religion poverty, which the excessive immigration could bring into USA in similar way, like its already doing in Western Europe. The only question remains, why they should get pleased by such a perspective? IMO their feelings are completely rational: see for example no-go zones in Sweden. Would you want to live there?
MR166
1 / 5 (9) Feb 10, 2018
I am also afraid of WW3. The deep state is doing everything in its power to make it happen. Sanctioning the Russians was part of the Master Plan.
https://www.zeroh...hot-down
mackita
5 / 5 (6) Feb 10, 2018
@MR166: Russia deserves the sanctions for its mess, which is doing in Eastern Ukraine. It's no secret that Russia annexed the Crimea because of large oil & gas supplies located there - no civilized country should behave in this way.
MR166
1 / 5 (10) Feb 10, 2018
Although I did not realize this until Obama took office and our ME policy just got worse the deep state has been planning this since the first Bush. His statement about The New World Order was not just rhetoric! Remember before invading Kuwait, Iraq asked our Secretary of State if the US had any interests there and we said NO!!!!!

Nuff Said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gkam
4.2 / 5 (5) Feb 10, 2018
"see for example no-go zones in Sweden. Would you want to live there?"

There aren't any!
mackita
2.3 / 5 (6) Feb 10, 2018
The people who afraid of WW3 should support the research of cold fusion and overunity - this is the only effective way, how to stop the exploitation of nature and geopolitical conflicts motivated by fight for remaining fossil fuel reserves. It will also limit the power of totalitarian regimes, which are generally fueled by their fossil fuel exports.
MR166
1 / 5 (5) Feb 10, 2018
Mack the sanctions were not because of the Ukraine they were because of the made up election tampering. I know that there are 2 sides to the Ukraine issue but I do not know enough about it to make an informed post.
mackita
3 / 5 (6) Feb 10, 2018
Mack the sanctions were not because of the Ukraine they were because of the made up election tampering
The USA citizens have memory of tropical fish. Just read my link - the sanctions were here long before USA election investigation.
MR166
1 / 5 (9) Feb 10, 2018
"There aren't any!"

If the progressive government there refuses to admit it it does not exist. That is the liberal way.

You really are brainwashed Gkam.
Turgent
1 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
Its the 100th university of the great progressive liberal Woodrow Wilson. Scratch the surface of that bastard and you find the most hateful racist. Keep'em on the plantation. That's the Left's agenda today.
MR166
1 / 5 (6) Feb 10, 2018
Mack these are the sanctions that I am talking about.

http://www.foxbus...now.html

They were voted on after the elections.
MR166
1 / 5 (6) Feb 10, 2018
Mack at least hot fusion has been proven to exist. How many people have demonstrated cold fusion and have their claims been validated?
Claudius
5 / 5 (5) Feb 10, 2018
Interesting that the highest concentration of hate groups is next to the Mexican border.
greenonions1
4.5 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
MR
What separates Turd World Nations from the rest of the world is not their people but their corrupt governments
First of all - your use of the term 'turd world' is racist. So nice way to respond to an article about hate - by spewing your right wing hate.

Second - The U.S. has an intensely corrupt government. I think the bigger distinction between developed countries, and developing countries - is far more complex. It has a lot to do with corruption - but you have to understand the complex historical context. The European powers devastated African and Asian countries for hundreds of years. Whole populations were almost exterminated. Natural resources were gutted. It is going to take centuries for these countries to recover from such treatment. I think corruption has a lot to do with it. Read up on evil strongmen like Mugabe, and Amin - and understand who put them in power.

Nice way to respond to an article about hate - with your right wing hate MR.....
Mike42440
5 / 5 (11) Feb 10, 2018
I see an awful lot of trash talk in the comments about folks who are highly educated and have taken the time to give this topic the thought and research that it deserves. It reminds me of the widely held belief that because a person graduated from high school, they're qualified to be a school board member. Sad. I am not an expert on this topic so I will not add my two cents to the discussion except to share something I learned a while back. We hate what we fear, and we fear what we don't understand.
MR166
1 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
"The researchers mapped active hate groups for every U.S. county using the SPLC database from 2014"

Mike right there is strike number 1. The SPLC is a very biased organization. Thus we are confronted with the garbage in = garbage out situation. Do you think that they actually listed BLM or Antifa as hate groups?
Caliban
4.3 / 5 (6) Feb 10, 2018
Poverty, ignorance, religion, and profit motive are what drive Hate.
Excepting the profit motive, this is made explicit by this study, and shouldn't come as any surprise to any rational human being.

Poverty is nothing more than a lack of resources, which means that actual -and potential- resources need to be protected, whether they are represented by access or potential access, to food, shelter, benefit programs, or employment -to name just a few.

Ignorance is the lack of understanding and/or education, or a refusal to acknowledge the facts.
When it is the basis for interpreting the actual world -especially an actual world of poverty or limited means- it obviously reinforces fears of being out-competed by anyone not of one's immediate community, which obviously includes "immigrants", LGBTQ, non- or different-believers, and "Liberals".

Religion seeks to bind its adherents to a vague and interpretable doctrine to control a community of followers.

contd
mackita
3.4 / 5 (5) Feb 10, 2018
"see for example no-go zones in Sweden. Would you want to live there?" There aren't any!
Even the Wikipedia isn't so brainwashed, like you... You may also check YouTube for nonexistence of these...
Caliban
5 / 5 (5) Feb 10, 2018
contd

The major world religions are -where they are practiced most liberally- composed of members from all "races". But with increasing fundamentalism, they become more and more intolerant, and less inclusive, and their interpretation of doctrine becomes narrower and and membership more homogenous to "serve'" and control a more and more specific "congregation". At this level is the greatest amount of "hate", since this deliberately pursued exclusion is necessary to define and control the community or "congregation" of believers, so that they may be wielded as a tool or weapon.

Driving the whole wagon is the profit motive.

The profit motive sees no objection to misinforming, witholding, or putting in harm's way any and all of those who are unwilling or unable to free themselves from its tyranny, and it cares not what methods --religion, poverty, ignorance, and hatred included-- it employs to continue to amass $$$, Power, and Control.

They are the ACTUAL ENEMY.
MR166
1.5 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
Caliban I think that you have aptly shown us the progressives view of the world. Religion and profit are the enemies of your open border Utopia. Who need profit when there is an endless supply of government jobs and subsidies available. Who needs religion when there are an endless supply of new laws to force upon the powerless. I say powerless because they never apply to the governors and their friends.
MR166
1.5 / 5 (8) Feb 10, 2018
The utopia of Venezuela is 1/2 completed. All profit has been eliminated and only the horrible curse of religion remains. They don't have to worry about the borders except maybe to keep people in.
ThomasQuinn
5 / 5 (8) Feb 11, 2018
@MR166:

In this topic alone, I've seen you claim that George W. Bush was pushing a liberal-progressive agenda, that Sweden's military preparations for a possible Russian invasion of their arctic regions were actually secret preparations against Islamic insurgency (while the liberal-progressive Swedish government is actually in league with Islamists, so bonus points for contradicting yourself), that the New World Order is actually a real thing instead of really silly nonsense, you've called checks and balances "deep state" and "bad for the Bill of Rights [and] the constitution", the 100+ people killed by the far-right in America in the past few years all provoked their own killings...

...and most insane of all, when a far-right claim, "no-go zones in Sweden", is PROVEN to be false REPEATEDLY, you claim that's part of a liberal conspiracy to suppress the truth.

And yet, you seem to be under the delusional impression that you enjoy any credibility.
JustACrow
5 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
"The U geographers assert that organized hate is motivated by the desire to protect a place from the perceived threats that 'outsiders' pose to identity and socioeconomic security."

It's interesting that this article is prompting such emotional discourse. I see little critique of the methods of the study, and a lot of posts which go beyond rebuttal and instead seek to silence or antagonize other posters. It's almost like some people where threatened by the existence of the study or the summary above, and then others joined in who are feeling threatened by the posts of opposing views.

An alternative might be to work to improve the science and work toward policies which reduce the balkanization of America. Are there actors who are seeking to solve root cause issues of small-population-fear without suppressing them? How could Church leadership engage to make religion's role more consistent in its pursuit of peace? What common ground can we find to create more opportunity?
MR166
1 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
JustACrow how can there be common ground when one side, including some republicans, has vowed from day one to remove a duly elected president from office? Every person around him has been placed under a microscope to a degree which has never happen in the history of the US. I really fear that this will impact the quality of any future appointees. Who would willfully want to be subjected to investigations covering 10s of years of past dealings and unsubstantiated claims. We have reached a very dangerous turning point in our political system.
ThomasQuinn
5 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
" Every person around him has been placed under a microscope to a degree which has never happen in the history of the US."

That is just such an indefensibly unbelievable lie. During the entire 8 years of the Obama-administration, the Republican opposition seized on every minor detail of every person in and around the Obama-administration to attack Obama and the Democratic Party. This is so extensively documented, from FOX News to print media to congressional investigations, that your lie is not believable to anyone who does not either consciously choose to forget all that happened between '09 and '17 or is suffering from severe amnesia. From the birther-conspiracy to Benghazi, from Ralph Abernathy to Sasha and Malia Obama.

The Tea Party-backers maintained that Obama was ineligible for office throughout his presidency. Republicans sought to remove Obama or to prevent him from running again through litigation.
MR166
1 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
TQ the investigations during the Obama administration centered around acts that were done while the person was in office not 10 or more years prior to that. The political bias of our government agencies has got to end or they will destroy our legal system.
MR166
1 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
So far it appears that the FBI was willingly used to try to alter our election process much like the old KGB. The IRS was used to interfere with the formation of alternate political parties by denying them their rightful tax status. The DOJ was funneling settlement monies only/mostly to the left.

How much of this sort of bias are YOU willing to accept?
ThomasQuinn
5 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
That's not true. The birther-idiocy comes to mind, but also the pseudo-legal 'argument' that Obama forfeited his citizenship by living in Indonesia and therefore became ineligible for the presidency, which some attempted to litigate. There is more, but I'm not in a position right now to go over 8 years of sources to make a more or less comprehensive list.

The allegation of political bias against the FBI is utterly unbelievable. The FBI was an undeniably Conservative-Republican bulwark under J. Edgar Hoover and his successors, which also meant a strongly conservative-biased promotion policy. This is reflected in consistent Republican congressional support for the FBI and consistent Democratic congressional opposition to the FBI. Somehow, this established Republican bias in the FBI suddenly changed a full 180 around the time Trump came into office. People like Mueller and Comey, well-established as conservatives and registered Republicans are suddenly branded liberal democrats.
ThomasQuinn
5 / 5 (6) Feb 11, 2018
So far it appears that the FBI was willingly used to try to alter our election process much like the old KGB. The IRS was used to interfere with the formation of alternate political parties by denying them their rightful tax status. The DOJ was funneling settlement monies only/mostly to the left.

How much of this sort of bias are YOU willing to accept?


The FBI part of your post is entirely without credibility and strongly contradicts not only historical fact but also recent political stances, even during the Obama-adminstration. The GOP did not become critical to the FBI until INTO the Trump-administration. The IRS part I feel unqualified to comment on because I have not critically looked into the subject, but I find the allegations less than entirely credible because of the length of the chain of abuse of power this would require, and fairly recent historical precedent shows this to be unlikely.
ThomasQuinn
5 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
The political bias of our government agencies has got to end or they will destroy our legal system.


I find this part of your remark deeply disturbing, especially from someone who presents himself as a conservative with, I think your posting history implies, a traditionalist view on the constitution.

If you take a moment to look at your own post in a disinterested manner, you cannot fail to conclude that you are arguing against the checks-and-balances system and especially the extreme independence of branches like the judiciary and institutions like the FBI from the executive branch. You are implying a need for loyalty to the executive from these organizations.

When a Trump-appointed FBI director opposes actions by the president and the result is calls from the presidents supporters to curtail the FBIs independence under the guise of eliminating political bias, that is itself an assault on rule of law.
JustACrow
5 / 5 (6) Feb 11, 2018
MR166, I imagine that we all agree that we need independent checks and balances. It sounds like you are not comfortable with the current executive branch to perform those checks and balances. What changes do you propose? Will these strengthen the democracy for the future regardless of which party is in power?
JustACrow
4 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
@ThomasQuinn, Do you agree that there might be a level of polical bias in a watchdog agency which might be 'too high to be healthy'? Do you have ideas for how that bias could be measured and what control mechanisms might work to correct it?
MR166
1 / 5 (6) Feb 11, 2018
Hoover-like Republicans eh JQ?

http://www.breitb...t-merit/
ThomasQuinn
5 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
Do I believe that this is possible? Yes. Do I believe that it has been proven? No.

I think measuring bias is a problematic thing at the best of times, because the only truly accurate way to do it is in retrospect (i.e. reviewing past actions), which by definition is too late to prevent it having (undesirable) effects.

To correct it, I can think only of 'solutions' in the most general terms. It strikes me, as an outside observer (not being from the US), that way appointments are made to numerous offices that should be independent, and the way others are elected offices, there is an undesirably high level of politicization in positions that ought to be as non-political as possible, such as law enforcement agencies and judges. For instance, if nominations for high ranking federal judges were to be made by an overarching organization of judges instead of by the president, this might make confirmation hearings much less of a political game. Not that this would solve everything.
ThomasQuinn
5 / 5 (5) Feb 11, 2018
Hoover-like Republicans eh JQ?

http://www.breitb...t-merit/


Breitbart is never a reliable source. Or would you accept a rebuttal from Daily Worker? I think not.

The Republican/Conservative leanings of the FBI have been well-documented, we are not going into an argument over that any more than we are going to argue over whether or not Hoover himself was a right-winger.
MR166
1 / 5 (6) Feb 11, 2018
JAC there was a huge problem with the FBI before and after the election. Basing an investigation on a document that was known to be of political origin can never be justified. Claiming that Hillary's "Ignorance", yea right, indemnified her was just a statement acknowledging the she held the power and don't mess with her. FBI text messages have attested to that fact. I will admit that Comey was between a rock and a VERY hard place but still find the outcome to be very disturbing.
MR166
1 / 5 (8) Feb 11, 2018
"Breitbart is never a reliable source."

So you are saying that Breitbart lied and or misquoted the FBI official eh. Since that sort of negative quote would never see the light of day on the MSM you will always purposely remain ill informed.
JustACrow
5 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
@MR166, I think we all agree that bias in the FBI would be a bad thing. What's a reliable measure of bias we could use so we could all agree it's 'too biased'? There are about 35,000 employees in the FBI right now (assuming you can believe the FBI website). So far, I have heard of less than a dozen people with a Clinton-leaning bias, and I heard lots of criticism from the Left of anti-Clinton bias during the election. Is anyone aware of any studies of systematic bias in the FBI beyond the emotionally charged anecdotes that our press is using to see advertising?
JustACrow
5 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
@MR166 & @ThomasQuinn, I've been struggling with how to get an balanced view from media--I assume journalists have varying levels of bias. I have found that Allsides.com and MediaBiasFactCheck.com both use different published methodologies to measure bias in media sources so you can select a mix of left, right, and centrist information sources to cross-check the narrative-of-the-day. And their ratings seem to correlate, so I use them as sources on journalism bias. And I use 'projects fivethirtyeight' as a source for bias from polling organizations. There's some interesting research from Columbia university on that as well. What do you use to separate deliberately-slanted-bias-to-sell-advertising from an-honest-attempt-at-fact-based-journalism?
MR166
1 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
JAC the fish rots from the head down. All it takes is a few at the top to instill a certain attitude all the way down the food chain. I am not saying that all government employees need to be replaced but am saying there need to be more diverse and less politicized leadership in upper management. I do not have the faintest idea of how this can be accomplished in a fair manner. Look at the US 9th circuit court. It is the most Liberal court in the nation and does not represent a balanced legal system. Are they going to add more balance to our government. Remember, Trump did get elected by a large electoral majority so he must represent the views of the electorate. Yea he did not get a majority of the popular vote but for all intents and purposes he got 50% of it.
jljenkins
4.4 / 5 (7) Feb 11, 2018
It's tribalism, pure and simple. On the face of it, we all want good things. The rub is in how you define "we". When I say it, it's everyone. When Grump says it, it's entitled white men. From Brexit to Syria, it's all about resurgent tribalism. It's difficult for society to create cohesion and move beyond archaic tribalism, and it's very easy to exploit old fault lines. Look at China in the 19th century. Went from world power to 3rd world in 100 years because there was no political compromise; "the other" was evil incarnate. Hell, look at Pakistan. A lot of hope in the '50s; today wracked by tribalism. Tribalism is hell, and if you want to check it out first hand, visit Karachi or Lahore. Soccer glorifies the mindset and calls it "beautiful". YUUUUUCK!

On the bright side, these assholes will eventually start cruisin' and shootin' in their pick-ups. Good. I'm ready and would love a chance to bag a few legal scalps!
JustACrow
5 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
@MR166, thanks for articulating your point of view! When you says 'the fish rots from the head down', are you concerned about Trump, Sessions, Comey, some other leader, or someone deeper in the FBI? My sense is that our current system politically elects the president, who assigns senior leaders who are political appointees, and the bias would move back and forth as the political winds change. But notions I've heard of the 'deep state' imply that there's some other structure driving longer term bias which somehow persists beyond the previous administration. Can you please elaborate your thoughts on the sources of persistent bias?
JustACrow
5 / 5 (2) Feb 11, 2018
@jljenkins, I have to admit that I chuckled at your juxtaposition of a thoughtful analytical point and a crude biased violent provocation, despite my own bias toward constructive dialogue. Very meta.
MR166
1.3 / 5 (6) Feb 11, 2018
JAC here are the reasons I think that there is a deep state.

The US wars have become more and more unjustifiable since say Nam. One would think that it would have taught us something. Two things convinced me that there are major puppeteers yanking our strings. The first was the fact that Obama continued to overthrow governments and destabilize the ME just as both Bushes had done. I did somewhat support both Bush wars but now see they were part of a ME plan that is still being carried out in Syria today.

Secondly BOTH parties have united to make sure that Trump has no way of succeeding since he was not the chosen one. He is totally on his own and being subverted by those around him.

Et tu, Brute
MR166
1 / 5 (6) Feb 11, 2018
JAC I am not so much concerned about the president as I am about upper and mid management in the various departments. A president will be gone in 4 to 8 years and a new one can guide the ship in a different direction. When Bill Clinton took office he replaced many many top level managers in the departments with people of his own choosing. Then Bush 2 came in and changed virtually nothing in the now entrenched establishment. Obama turned these departments even more left and now we are on the verge of having a biased dysfunctional government that only represents 1/2 of the people.
JustACrow
1 / 5 (1) Feb 11, 2018
@MR166. Thanks for the info. I'll have to reflect on this.
MR166
1 / 5 (6) Feb 11, 2018
JAC while you are reflecting on the US government just ask yourself who would benefit from the turmoil in the ME, who is backing Muslim immigration, who wants open borders and why.
gkam
3 / 5 (6) Feb 11, 2018
"Then Bush 2 came in and changed virtually nothing in the now entrenched establishment."

Absolutely false!

I was on a federal grand jury in the Dubya Bush years, and he got rid of everyone and put in political operatives. I am still fighting them to tell my story.
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
I runneth from the mouth here but the MSM pretty much detests Trump and have disparaged all most all of his agenda . Yet, there was not ONE negative peep about his continuation of the war in Syria. One has to wonder why that is. Do they really want a war with Iran and Russia that badly?
MR166
1 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
Gkam I really doubt that a grand jury member would be privy to that sort of info. But I do know that Clinton replaced almost the entire Justice Department.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
@mr
I really doubt that a grand jury member would be privy to that sort of info
depends
see section 5, 7,
http://corporate....rse.html

Grand juries [hearafter GJ] perform both accusatory and investigatory functions

regarding exposure of testimonies in a GJ, Prosecutors (and GJ members) are cautioned that in certain types of cases, some grand jury information may also be subject to additional statutory and regulatory restrictions governing disclosure and sharing. See, e.g., 26 U.S.C. § 6103

see also: 9-11.000 https://www.justice.gov
MR166
2 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
Capt. He did not claim to be on a GJ that was investigating any fireings.
gkam
1 / 5 (2) Feb 11, 2018
The staffing of the US Attorneys and the Attorney General of the US is public information. We had a rotating set of temporaries filling our US Attorney post in 20 months of the 24 we served.

I wanted to bring up what I considered to be illegal actions and they threatened me with grand jury secrecy laws.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Feb 11, 2018
@mr
Capt. He did not claim to be on a GJ that was investigating any fireings.
I did not state otherwise

the corporate link I left has a very good description of how GJ's work and the power they have/don't have

the additional link is to the justice department with its directives, plus there is a reference to the USC which covers a lot of ground

personally, I would be suspect of any person posting claims about GJ testimony, evidence or happenings considering the above law and the limitations therein

.

@g
I wanted to bring up what I considered to be illegal actions and they threatened me with grand jury secrecy laws
and those laws still apply
gkam
1 / 5 (2) Feb 11, 2018
"and those laws still apply"

Which is why you do not know about it.
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
@g
"and those laws still apply"

Which is why you do not know about it.
1- you're blabbering about it on a publicly accessible site (bad form)

2- you're alluding to illegal actions (poor taste at best, illegal if you name names)
I was on a federal grand jury in the Dubya Bush years, and he got rid of everyone and put in political operatives.
erm...

3- you named names and allude to the idiot dubya being named in the GJ (whoopsie on you)

at this point, I recommend you zip it before you get Justice involved
doubtful they will waste too much money on a trial, but they have justification to prosecute just by the above thread info

see also: links above
26 U.S.C. § 6103
Blacks Law

just sayin'
Captain Stumpy
3.7 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
misprint:
26 U.S.C. § 6103
should read
see USC or CFR's
9-11.000
link above
gkam
1 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
You have just showed us how you have never been on a grand jury. You assume what you want to be true. Your personal prejudice would never be allowed on a grand jury.

I never said we investigated Dubya. Why don't you read right? And as I said, Dubya fired US Attorneys to put who I consider to be political hacks in their place.

Are you going to tell on me?
MR166
3 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
As a member of a GJ I seriously doubt that you would know the reason for the replacement of a prosecutor in any particular case.
Captain Stumpy
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
@idiot LIAR-kam
You have just showed us how you have never been on a grand jury
wrong
You assume what you want to be true
wrong again - I assumed nothing
that is why I provided the links above, you illiterate hack moron

9-11.130
9-16.500
9-27.760
gkam
1 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
"As a member of a GJ I seriously doubt that you would know the reason for the replacement of a prosecutor in any particular case."

I told you it was my opinion, and not from any inside information. Look up the era (2006-2008), and tell me I was alone in that opinion. You can't. It was a big deal at the time.

Why do you folk keep assuming?
gkam
2 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
"you illiterate hack moron"

Retreating to silly name-calling is an admission of losing the argument.
Captain Stumpy
2.3 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
Why do you folk keep assuming?
why do you keep lying to get attention?

again: I am not assuming anything, and the federal law from the US Attorney's office at the department of justice validates my points
Retreating to silly name-calling is an admission of losing the argument
it's not name-calling

it is a factual label borne out by your own incompetent posts which validate my label

you said I was assuming; I proved I was not by linking the law which explicitly states you're an idiot and lying

again

it's not rocket surgery to someone who is literate
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (5) Feb 11, 2018
"Hate is a geographic problem. The ways people hate are based on the cultures, histories, ethnicities and many other factors dependent on place and place perception."

-?? Hate doesnt depend on whether you live near mountains or seashore. These guys are trying to be social scientists and demographers which leads me to believe that, like many soft scientists, they are hard up for work.

Hate is sociopolitical. It is the tribal expression of animosity toward competing tribes. The reason you hate is because your perceived enemies threaten the future and well-being of your family and your tribe.

And there are any number of ways they can do this. They can threaten to dilute your gene pool which took many gens to adapt to your specific environment. They can similarly threaten your cultural identity.

They can of course threaten your territory and your resources. And they can present a danger simply because they perceive you as a threat for any and all of the above reasons.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Feb 11, 2018
Why do you folk keep assuming?
-what, that you're a pathological liar and a cheat? That's based entirely on your performance here. You've proven that people can't trust absolutely anything you do or say.

You expect us to believe you're an expert on this or that simply because you held a 6 month job shop position or sat on a jury somewhere.

We know experts. They are the ones who did the work to get degrees and long term positions, things which you were constitutionally incapable of doing.

Because of course you're a psychopath who measures success not by what he achieves but by who he deceives.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
Re tribalism I see that jljenkins already mentioned this above. I hear more and more people referring to this online and in the news media, for instance referring to anti-feh as tribalists.

I'm glad that people are finally catching on to what really makes people tick.
gkam
2 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
Some people are experts in hate.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Feb 11, 2018
@otto
-?? Hate doesnt depend on whether you live near mountains or seashore. These guys are trying to be social scientists and demographers which leads me to believe that, like many soft scientists, they are hard up for work
I think this is more about congregation with like-minded others mixed with the fact that specific beliefs of hate tend to trend geographically as they're taught based upon local beliefs and shared mentality (usually out of ignorance)

that actually supports the tribalism argument as well as the argument of youthful indoctrination into beliefs (via religion, etc)
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (3) Feb 11, 2018
define 'hate'
Turgent
1 / 5 (2) Feb 11, 2018
As is.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (4) Feb 11, 2018
that actually supports the tribalism argument as well as the argument of youthful indoctrination into beliefs (via religion, etc)
Religion IS tribalism. So is nationalism, socialism, fascism, Nazism.

Religions main message: we are the good people. People who don't believe cannot be good or honest or decent or trustworthy.

This has been the basis of tribal law ever since we became human.

"It is the old tribal way of looking at things. The near neighbors constitute human society for such a person, and any person who is at all unfamiliar is in his eyes a little less than human."
ForFreeMinds
2 / 5 (8) Feb 11, 2018
They found that in all U.S. regions, less education, population change, and ethnic diversity correlated with more hate groups, as did areas with higher poverty rates and more conservative political affiliation.


Notice that the authors specifically mentioned conservative political views as a cause of hate while never mentioning liberal political views. If you doubt that liberals hate, you need only to have seen the recent state of the union address and watched the hate dripping from the liberals.


"The researchers mapped the patterns of active hate groups in every U.S. county."

Apparently the list of hate groups was taken from the leftist SPLC, who accuse many conservative groups of hate, which explains why the study is nothing but government funded leftist propaganda and analysis of people they accuse of being hate groups. Bad form by all involved in producing the report.
Thorium Boy
1 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
Poor inhabitants are most physically threatened by lost of occupation, for example as the result of wrong immigration politics. This is something, which people with higher social status cannot understand. But I wouldn't call this hate - just the result of pure conflict of interests. In similar way the rich people hate these who prohibits them in filling the market by cheap labor force. The labeling these feelings as irrational doesn't help the solving of source of their problems.


Just more proof the ivory tower academics have no idea as to the real motivations of those they lord above.
ThomasQuinn
5 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
Do you mean "those they lord over"? You know, if you're going to throw cliché one-liners around, you'd better get your cliché right if you want to have even the slightest chance of being taken seriously.
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 12, 2018
The bottom line is that what once was a difference of opinion is now labeled hate. Thus there is "Hate" everywhere. To label a persons political views as hate is very aggressive and insures that there will never be any middle ground where both sides can come to an agreement. Our educational institutions are encouraging these actions by creating safe spaces where differing opinions are forbidden. Somehow the middle ground has been eliminated and only the left and alt-right remain as classifications. There are many examples where conservative speakers have been banned from campuses and other public forums.
MR166
2 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
The real problem is clashing cultures not race. For instance I along with most others here moved to the suburbs for peace and quite. Some people do not share my neighborhoods culture and want to party all night and perhaps store used cars on their front lawn. If they were to move here, no matter what their race there would be some hatred generated. If their color happened happened to be different than mine I would be accused of being a bigot.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
lol - erm
The bottom line is that what once was a difference of opinion is now labeled hate. Thus there is "Hate" everywhere ...Our educational institutions are encouraging these actions by creating safe spaces where differing opinions are forbidden
you mean like this?
For instance I along with most others here moved to the suburbs for peace and quite. Some people do not share my neighborhoods culture and want to party all night and perhaps store used cars on their front lawn. If they were to move here, no matter what their race there would be some hatred generated
the *only* difference is:
you feel justified because you're protecting your financial (&/or other) investment and others *like you* are helping you segregate your community with like-minded, creating a *safe space* for yourself

how is that not hypocrisy?
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
Good point Capt. Yes it is my safe space. But then again my neighborhood is not an institution of higher learning where students should be learning how to interface with society and understand both sides of a position. Our schools are just stamping out little left wing gingerbread men err persons I don't want to be labeled as a hater.
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
But then again my neighborhood is not an institution of higher learning where students should be learning how to interface with society and understand both sides of a position
ah, but institutions are usually isolated (sometimes insulated) communities that represent the overall culture as a whole, typically on a national level due to location, so why is it so shocking when they attempt to replicate society in their ranks?

public grade/high schools are stamping out what you specifically want as a community
- the school board is typically local leadership elected to the position

so why is it so shocking that when they enter society into higher education it replicates what is culturally acceptable?
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
Capt. way back when my high school teachers were amazingly non political. Yea a few college professors had some political views about the US, Nam and the like but there was a lot of room for valid discussion. Now it seems there is no room for differing opinions say about immigration with out being labeled a racist and a hater.
dabunting
2 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
Any definition of hate groups must include the liberal and Democratic haters of Donald Trump and those of us-- half of Americans-- who support him. It must include those who support such as Intefa, MS13, (the terrorist part only of) Black Lives Matter, killing of cops, those who pay the rioters, who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to women to claim sexual abuse against Trump, who brutally attack Trump's young son and family members.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
Dabunting don't forget to include the vast legion of Rinos in your list of haters. People like Paul Ryan are still working 24/7 to destabilize his presidency.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
I think that one of the most divisive acts in our society if the failure to classify crimes committed by minorities on whites as hate crimes. It seems that only whites are capable of racial bias and that any minority is not.
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
These "Safe Space" kids will be totally useless in the business world. Instead being taught how to deal with adversity and conflict they are being taught how to cower in a corner and blame others. They should take the pressure off these kids and stop issuing degrees and offer participation trophies instead. If you get a nice participation trophy in say women's studies you should have no problem paying off your student loan in 200-300 years.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
Now it seems there is no room for differing opinions say about
I thought my point was clear: the best method to permanently alter the future so that there is a way to express freely is to start at home and in the community
I think that one of the most divisive acts in our society if the failure to classify crimes committed by minorities on whites as hate crimes. It seems that only whites are capable of racial bias and that any minority is not
I disagree: the law is very clear about what constitutes a hate crime
https://www.law.c...t/18/249

so your problem more about application or prosecution of the law
that is also internal and community-based as the prosecutors etc are typically working under an elected position that drives policy
https://en.wikipe...d_States
snoosebaum
1 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
'' attempt to replicate society in their ranks ''

so antifa represents whom ? exactly ?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Feb 12, 2018
'' attempt to replicate society in their ranks ''

so antifa represents whom ? exactly ?
@snoose
fanatical militants that wish to express "their opposition to fascism through the use of direct action" - [Cammeron, Brenna (August 14, 2017). "Antifa: Left-wing militants on the rise". BBC News]

there are fanatical religious and political nutjobs all over the world

hell, you can see quite a large gathering of fanatical posters here on PO alone... you should see the political idiocy of posters here: https://phys.org/...est.html

search for the following quote
its a private club
follow his inane stupidity where he completely ignores validated science because he has a political agenda

MR166
1 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
Capt. a law is meaningless without enforcement. Combine unequal enforcement with media bias and you will create a lot of division. I will admit that part of the BLM movement stems from a perceived, rightly or wrongly, sense of unequal enforcement.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
a law is meaningless without enforcement
and there you have a core problem that can only be resolved through direct action in your local community

if the will of the people isn't being met, then the people have to stand unified to correct said action

one of the hardest lessons learned about this topic was during the US Civil Rights movement

a change was made and is still being made because there was (finally) unification of the people
with media bias
and why is there bias?
that can also be changed, but it takes unification (see above)
I will admit that part of the BLM movement stems from a perceived, rightly or wrongly, sense of unequal enforcement
true

IMHO - equality starts at home
if you segregate your communities then you're saying you can't be equal until you believe my way

so it's not surprising that higher institutions reflect this same behaviour
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Feb 12, 2018
@mr - PS to the above:

Massive cultural change happens slowly, which is why BLM has issues they wish to bring to the forefront, such as their "perceived, rightly or wrongly, sense of unequal enforcement"

most people are insulated against certain things
case in point: your community
you don't "see" cultural clashes because your community attempts to segregate likely based upon a written code (HOA)

you perceive this to be the cultural definition in your area, so ...

but that is really the underlying cause of the slow movement of cultural change - the resistance of the population to accept outsiders or the different because of entrenched ideas and complacency

Zzzzzzzz
5 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
Any definition of hate groups must include the liberal and Democratic haters of Donald Trump and those of us-- half of Americans-- who support him. It must include those who support such as Intefa, MS13, (the terrorist part only of) Black Lives Matter, killing of cops, those who pay the rioters, who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to women to claim sexual abuse against Trump, who brutally attack Trump's young son and family members.


Paying rioters...... Paying victims of felony sexual predation to come forward..... what kind of delusional dumb phark are you? A dumb phark who has no business on a scientifically oriented site. A dumb phark who is getting onto ignore lists faster than most......
MR166
1 / 5 (1) Feb 12, 2018
"if you segregate your communities then you're saying you can't be equal until you believe my way"

America became the best country in the world by being "The Great Melting Pot"!

This implies a blending of cultures not one culture being superior to the other.

https://www.thoug...-2834561

Well that is not what they are after is it? "They", and yes I do not know who they are, want the US to have totally separate cultures, and not become homogeneous. Show me just one nation where this has worked.

Also as a "Melting Pot" new additions to the mixture absorb more of its characteristics than they contribute.
JamesG
1.7 / 5 (6) Feb 12, 2018
HUGE study bias in this article. The author is obviously a liberal and assumes all hate is from conservatives. Ask a conservative what they think. The most hateful speech in use today comes from Hollywood and the media spouting hate with the most vicious, foul mouthed, and lie filled attacks I have ever seen. If you hear hate from a conservative, chances are it is in self defense.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
America became the best country in the world by being "The Great Melting Pot"!
sort of
and *best* is a relative term that depends upon your culture and beliefs
Well that is not what they are after is it? "They", and yes I do not know who they are, want the US to have totally separate cultures, and not become homogeneous
depends
you can be individual and unique while being part of a whole

there is no problem with celebrating the differences while also being part of a larger group of like-minded people so long as a cultural identity doesn't defy existing laws (like "honour killings" or violations of Treaties) there is no harm in accepting it's addition

the melting pot accepts cultures and can be a stable and diverse place of equality so long as the Rule of Law applies equally - but it doesn't in some places, hence the need for public attention
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
Show me just one nation where this has worked.
subjective evidence offered IMHO only: Sioux Nation
there is an overall culture that rules the whole, but every person is diverse and unique and brings their own culture and identity to the pot

but I also know I am biased WRT the above
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 12, 2018
"you don't "see" cultural clashes because your community attempts to segregate likely based upon a written code (HOA"

Yea, but it is not RACE based segregation. As an example of like minded people living together there are plenty of artist communities and green communes. People do not complain about that and shouldn't. I might be a bigot but I really think that like minded, the mind has no color, people should live together. In the end neighborhoods self segregate by income levels because income levels tend to think alike. This is not bad or good but just the way it is.

Yea, there are certain standards that are self imposed by a neighborhood but that is a good thing. Why should others suffer because I am a pig, rev my Harley at 3 AM ect..

If I want to hear Harleys I will move to a neighborhood that has lots of them. People with common values should group together for the common good.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
Yea, but it is not RACE based segregation
so, segregation is ok so long as it's not racial?
IOW - you're specifically teaching, by example, that segregating yourself from other ideas and refusing to allow dissenting opinion, is OK so long as it's not racially motivated - see also:
Now it seems there is no room for differing opinions
These "Safe Space" kids will be totally useless in the business world. Instead being taught how to deal with adversity and conflict they are being taught how to cower in a corner and blame others
isn't that hypocrisy?

you can't have it both ways: maybe we should be telling you and your community to suck it up and quit cowering in your corner and deal with diversity, adversity and conflict?
;-)
do ya get my point about how they're reflecting society now?

2Bcont'd
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
Yea, there are certain standards that are self imposed by a neighborhood but that is a good thing. Why should others suffer because I am a pig, rev my Harley at 3 AM ect.
IOW- why should I allow someone different in my community who has ideas, cultural activities or beliefs that differ from mine?

the rule of law should be equally applied to all
If I want to hear Harleys I will move to a neighborhood that has lots of them. People with common values should group together for the common good
you're assuming there is a choice in the matter - there isn't always a choice

see also: Pine Ridge Reservation, Standing Rock Reservation

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Feb 12, 2018
@mr - another point
People with common values should group together for the common good
in your own home and on your land, no other person should tell you how to live

if you had said you didn't want po' trash folk living in your home or on your property, I can see your point

however, the house they buy in your neighbourhood should be their own to do with as they please, so why should you and a few others active in an HOA be able to dictate to someone else how they should live?

why am I against it?
experience

did you know that until at least 1986 certain people could go to jail in the US for not being Christian and practising their own culture? (Peter Catches-the-enemy, Pine Ridge)

*His land* is "managed" by white cattle farmers who lease it at a whopping $1 acre/year and he has to get permission to hold religious events or build a home *on his own land guaranteed by treaty
no power. no running water. permission to cut wood for heat/cooking

*his land*
MR166
1 / 5 (2) Feb 12, 2018
Capt. I would never subject myself to yet another form of government ie HOA. Not everything has to be a mandate sometimes people just know how to act and have the manners to do so without legal prodding. Manners and consideration of others seems to be in short supply these days. That is where the living with people who think like you comes in. As far as the Indian Treaties and the federal government goes this in not a bright spot in our history and I hope that the courts continue to do the right thing. It might be the only time I would be happy to see a liberal judge sitting on the bench.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
Manners and consideration of others seems to be in short supply these days. That is where the living with people who think like you comes in
if you surround yourself with an echo-chamber, how do you know what is right?

so long as you're surrounding yourself only with those of a like mind, then when change is brought in, regardless of how right it is or how much evidence there is to demonstrate you being wrong, you will fight it fanatically (and possibly violently)

this is demonstrated by: the civil rights movement and the latest up at Standing Rock Res.

that is how cults start, by the way - pick something small, then as you gain a foothold, build upon the fears and similarities until you have a devoted fan who is willing to dismiss any evidence for the sake of the group

MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 12, 2018
"if you surround yourself with an echo-chamber, how do you know what is right?"

What the heck does the location of my home have to do with the variety of people that I associate with?
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Feb 12, 2018
@mr
What the heck does the location of my home have to do with the variety of people that I associate with?
that wasn't the point

the point is: people like you are the reason for your own following gripe
These "Safe Space" kids will be totally useless in the business world. Instead being taught how to deal with adversity and conflict they are being taught how to cower in a corner and blame others
you can't have it both ways
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 13, 2018
Capt. so you are claiming now that people who do not live in what they feel are adverse conditions are the reason that the snowflakes run to a safe corner and quiver if they accidentally hear a person express a view that they do not agree with. The world of participation trophies, pass or fail grading where no one fails and the discouragement of competition lest Johnny feels bad has nothing to do with it right ?!
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 13, 2018
All of this is not without purpose however. These people will make great subjects of the new King.
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 13, 2018
I do agree that our society has created these people. I am just surprised that our academia would condone and foster this disfunction. Call me paranoid but I can't help but think that academia is part of the drive to destroy western culture and create the New World Order. They will release their little bots upon the US to deconstruct it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (1) Feb 13, 2018
. In the end neighborhoods self segregate by income levels because income levels tend to think alike
Tribalism is self-segregating. Pseudospeciation, the 'urge to diverge'. Tribalism can express itself in social and economic classes. This can explain why the wealthy might tend to victimize the underprivileged, and why communism was an easy sell to oppressed workers who needed little encouragement to seize the property of former employers.

Territory is a component, but not an essential component, of tribalism. Jews and gypsys are extremely tribal but neitherr has a homeland.

Israel is a concept rather than a reality. Jews lived without an actual Jewish state for 2 millenia.
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 13, 2018
"This can explain why the wealthy might tend to victimize the underprivileged, and why communism was an easy sell to oppressed workers who needed little encouragement to seize the property of former employers."

Otto do you mean stuff like starting new businesses and employing people who would otherwise not have a job?
Captain Stumpy
4 / 5 (4) Feb 13, 2018
@mr
so you are claiming now that
what I am claiming is clear, and I repeated it
The world of participation trophies.... has nothing to do with it right ?!
I never said this wasn't an exacerbating condition

your point is a *symptom* of a larger problem that has, at its core, a prejudicial element

part of that problem expresses itself in the desires not only for similarity (or peer acceptance) in its attendee's but also docility - something that you've regularly displayed WRT certain scientific topics where you choose to ignore the evidence for the sake of your peer acceptance in a political spectrum

so the core problem isn't *that* "academia would condone and foster this disfunction" [sic], but rather that you create the problem and are a primary reason for the spread of said core dysfunction

as @otto points out, correctly: Tribalism
(though I would also add that there is a mite more to the problem)
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 13, 2018
Well Capt. in as much as we are allowing a corrupted educational system to exist you are correct. We might have reached a point of no return where people are so brainwashed and passive that they are incapable of questioning what is being taught in our schools. Many, I suppose
agree with today's agenda. I hope it is just many and not the majority for the sake of the nation.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Feb 13, 2018
@mr
Well Capt. in as much as we are allowing a corrupted educational system to exist you are correct
it's more than that though: the corruption starts at home
We might have reached a point of no return where people are so brainwashed and passive that they are incapable of questioning what is being taught in our schools
well, if you're talking about introducing religious beliefs as equivalent to scientifically proven data, then I agree that this is a very stupid idea and every person should question it

however, I have a feeling you're discussing AGW, which is yet another scientifically proven fact which you're pissed about

you want people to question *science* using *politics* or *belief* because you fear the possible change and how it will affect you financially

there are plenty of methods to question science, and all of them use the scientific principle and require evidence (see GR/SR and QM)

MR166
1 / 5 (4) Feb 13, 2018
Actually I was not including AGW at that time. I was questioning all of the PC stuff including micro-aggressions and political differences being called "Hate". But I suppose I should also include all of that tipping point nonsense, dying polar bears, unprecedented ice loss, wars, famines, and the other endless hyperboles they are attributing to AGW.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Feb 13, 2018
@mr
I was questioning all of the PC stuff including micro-aggressions and political differences being called "Hate"
soft sciences don't have the same reliability of sciences like physics...
But I suppose I should also include all of that tipping point nonsense, dying polar bears, unprecedented ice loss, wars, famines, and the other endless hyperboles they are attributing to AGW
1- if you have evidence that directly refutes the science, you should present it
(you never do - usually you present political stuff. just sayin')

2- There is a contest of the war study on this site (because that is how science works - actually bring evidence rather than just dismiss it)

3- re: Ice loss, polar bears, etc - it ain't hyperbole if there is evidence
ignoring evidence because you have a political agenda or belief is commonly called a delusion
https://en.wikipe...Delusion
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (3) Feb 14, 2018
Otto do you mean stuff like starting new businesses and employing people who would otherwise not have a job?
No I'm talking about stuff like wage slavery and pinkerton guards and the grapes of wrath.

Russian workers were indeed suffering. When times are good, populations swell and suddenly there are more workers than jobs. Labor becomes a buyers market. In order to remain competitive employers have to pay workers less. Without regulation workers become unable to support their families.

And yes, employers identify with their own social class tribally just as workers do. And the tribal dynamic compels each to consider the other as less human than they are, and to victimize them in order to improve their lot.

The trouble with starting new businesses and employing people... this occurs at the start of every new economic cycle.

The 4 stages of economic cycles; growth, decay, collapse, and rebirth.
Cont>
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (3) Feb 14, 2018
Sooner or later the markets become saturated with businesses. Capitalism thrives on competition but capitalists hate competition. Aging owners hate the prospect of change or starting over. They would much rather collude with fellow owners - their tribe - to limit competition, fix markets, and bribe regulators.

This is the decay stage. Collapse is inevitable. This is why Aristotle deemed democracy one step above despotism. Neither can withstand the inevitable overgrowth in populations without control by an authority which is not beholden to public scrutiny and influence.

This reminds me of the old days with marjon/ryggysogn the frothing free market poster.

Gone to heaven every one.
MR166
1.7 / 5 (3) Feb 14, 2018
"Aging owners hate the prospect of change or starting over. They would much rather collude with fellow owners - their tribe - to limit competition, fix markets, and bribe regulators."

Ah crony capitalism, yes this is a real threat to society as is uncontrolled private and public borrowing. At some point in time the Ponzi scheme collapses and after a LOT of pain people return to the basics of food, family and housing. I should investigate becoming Amish.
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (3) Feb 14, 2018
Ah crony capitalism, yes this is a real threat to society as is uncontrolled private and public borrowing
Hard to say if you're being sarcastic or what. But private borrowing in the form of toxic mortgages is what caused the 2nd worst recession/depression in US history. And those loans were made to maintain profits as an economic cycle entered the decay phase.
SwamiOnTheMountain
not rated yet Feb 14, 2018
Haha. We only need look at the comment section to see the all the hatred in this country. =)
Mellow out.
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 15, 2018
Nope Otto I am serious about ever increasing private and public debt being a huge problem. Personal debt gets wiped out once we die and business absorbs the loss in the form of higher prices. Government debt never goes away and must eventually turn into a decrease in the value of private savings ie inflation. Somehow the US has been able to minimize inflation because other countries still view the US dollar as a haven of safety due to our stable laws and government. But, excess deficits and civil unrest could change that in a instant to the joy of our enemies.
MR166
1 / 5 (3) Feb 15, 2018
Oh yea, I was really serious about crony capitalism being a threat also. Other than regulating businesses for the sake of protecting the people the government should not interfere. That includes special tax status and subsidies. Special tax breaks distort free enterprise and encourage crony capitalism. However, the government does play a needed role in research and the development of new technologies but the extent of their involvement in the free market needs to be seriously limited.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Feb 15, 2018
@mr
I'm all for limiting gov't power, but there absolutely has to be a regulatory agency to ensure fair play

this is the reason *for* gov't

it's a fine line tenuously balanced and always in jeopardy of falling
Special tax breaks distort free enterprise and encourage crony capitalism. However, the government does play a needed role in research and the development of new technologies but the extent of their involvement in the free market needs to be seriously limited
does that mean no more bailouts?

just askin'

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