Martian winds carve mountains, move dust, raise dust

February 28, 2017, Jet Propulsion Laboratory
This sequence of images shows a dust-carrying whirlwind, called a dust devil, scooting across the ground inside Gale Crater, as observed on the local summer afternoon of NASA's Curiosity Mars Rover's 1,597th Martian day, or sol (Feb. 1, 2017). Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/TAMU

On Mars, wind rules. Wind has been shaping the Red Planet's landscapes for billions of years and continues to do so today. Studies using both a NASA orbiter and a rover reveal its effects on scales grand to tiny on the strangely structured landscapes within Gale Crater.

NASA's Curiosity Mars rover, on the lower slope of Mount Sharp—a layered mountain inside the crater—has begun a second campaign of investigating active sand dunes on the mountain's northwestern flank. The rover also has been observing whirlwinds carrying dust and checking how far the moves grains of sand in a single day's time.

Gale Crater observations by NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have confirmed long-term patterns and rates of wind erosion that help explain the oddity of having a layered mountain in the middle of an .

"The orbiter perspective gives us the bigger picture—on all sides of Mount Sharp and the regional context for Gale Crater. We combine that with the local detail and ground-truth we get from the rover," said Mackenzie Day of the University of Texas, Austin, lead author of a research report in the journal Icarus about wind's dominant role at Gale.

The combined observations show that wind patterns in the crater today differ from when winds from the north removed the material that once filled the space between Mount Sharp and the crater rim. Now, Mount Sharp itself has become a major factor in determining local wind directions. Wind shaped the mountain; now the mountain shapes the wind.

Credit: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

The Martian atmosphere is about a hundred times thinner than Earth's, so winds on Mars exert much less force than winds on Earth. Time is the factor that makes Martian winds so dominant in shaping the landscape. Most forces that shape Earth's landscapes—water that erodes and moves sediments, tectonic activity that builds mountains and recycles the planet's crust, active volcanism—haven't influenced Mars much for billions of years. Sand transported by wind, even if infrequent, can whittle away Martian landscapes over that much time.

How to Make a Layered Mountain

Gale Crater was born when the impact of an asteroid or comet more than 3.6 billion years ago excavated a basin nearly 100 miles (160 kilometers) wide. Sediments including rocks, sand and silt later filled the basin, some delivered by rivers that flowed in from higher ground surrounding Gale. Curiosity has found evidence of that wet era from more than 3 billion years ago. A turning point in Gale's history—when net accumulation of sediments flipped to net removal by wind erosion—may have coincided with a key turning point in the planet's climate as Mars became drier, Day noted.

Scientists first proposed in 2000 that the mound at the center of Gale Crater is a remnant from wind eroding what had been a totally filled basin. The new work calculates that the vast volume of material removed—about 15,000 cubic miles (64,000 cubic kilometers)—is consistent with orbital observations of winds' effects in and around the crater, when multiplied by a billion or more years.

This animation shows effects of one Martian day of wind blowing sand underneath NASA's Curiosity Mars rover on a non-driving day for the rover. Each image was taken just after sundown by the rover's downward-looking Mars Descent Imager (MARDI). The area of ground shown in the images spans about 3 feet (about 1 meter) left-to-right. Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/MSSS

Other new research, using Curiosity, focuses on modern wind activity in Gale.

The rover this month is investigating a type of sand dune that differs in shape from dunes the mission investigated in late 2015 and early 2016. Crescent-shaped dunes were the feature of the earlier campaign—the first ever up-close study of active sand dunes anywhere other than Earth. The mission's second dune campaign is at a group of ribbon-shaped .

"In these linear dunes, the sand is transported along the ribbon pathway, while the ribbon can oscillate back and forth, side to side," said Nathan Bridges, a Curiosity science team member at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Maryland.

The season at Gale Crater is now summer, the windiest time of year. That's the other chief difference from the first dune campaign, conducted during less-windy Martian winter.

The left side of this 360-degree panorama from NASA's Curiosity Mars rover shows the long rows of ripples on a linear shaped dune in the Bagnold Dune Field on the northwestern flank of Mount Sharp. The view is a mosaic of images taken with Curiosity's Navigation Camera (Navcam) on Feb. 5, 2017, during the 1,601st Martian day, or sol, of the rover's work on Mars. The view is centered toward west-southwest, with east-southeast on either end. A capped mound called "Ireson Hill" is on the right. Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech

"We're keeping Curiosity busy in an area with lots of sand at a season when there's plenty of wind blowing it around," said Curiosity Project Scientist Ashwin Vasavada of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California. "One aspect we want to learn more about is the wind's effect on sorting sand grains with different composition. That helps us interpret modern dunes as well as ancient sandstones."

Before Curiosity heads farther up Mount Sharp, the mission will assess movement of sand particles at the linear dunes, examine ripple shapes on the surface of the dunes, and determine the composition mixture of the dune material.

Shifting Sand and 'Dust Devils'

Images taken one day apart of the same piece of ground, including some recent pairs from the downward-looking camera that recorded the rover's landing-day descent, show small ripples of sand moving about an inch (2.5 centimeters) downwind.

This map shows the two locations of a research campaign by NASA's Curiosity Mars rover mission to investigate active sand dunes inside Gale Crater on Mars. The Bagnold Dunes form a dark band on the northwestern flank of Mount Sharp, inside the crater. In late 2015 and early 2016, Curiosity examined crescent-shaped dunes, called barchans, which are convex on the downwind (leeward) side. This was the first close-up study of active sand dunes anywhere other than Earth. In February 2017, the rover reached a location where the dunes are linear in shape, and the mission began Phase 2 of its dunes campaign. Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Univ. of Arizona

Meanwhile, whirlwinds called "dust devils" have been recorded moving across terrain in the crater, in sequences of afternoon images taken several seconds apart.

After completing the planned dune observations and measurements, Curiosity will proceed southward and uphill toward a ridge where the mineral hematite has been identified from Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter observations. The Curiosity science team has decided to call this noteworthy feature the "Vera Rubin Ridge," commemorating Vera Cooper Rubin (1928-2016), whose astronomical observations provided evidence for the existence of the universe's dark matter.

As Curiosity focuses on the sand dunes, rover engineers are analyzing results of on the drill feed mechanism, which drives the drill bit in and out during the process of collecting sample material from a rock. One possible cause of an intermittent issue with the mechanism is that a plate for braking the movement may be obstructed, perhaps due to a small piece of debris, resisting release of the brake. The diagnostic tests are designed to be useful in planning the best way to resume use of the drill.

Beyond a dark sand dune closer to the rover, a Martian dust devil passes in front of the horizon in this sequence of images from NASA's Curiosity Mars rover. The rover's Navigation Camera made this series of observations on Feb. 4, 2017, in the summertime afternoon of the 1,599th Martian day, or sol, of Curiosity's work on Mars. Set within a broader view centered at south-southwest, the rectangular area outlined in black was imaged multiple times over a span of several minutes to check for dust devils. Images from the period with most activity are shown in the inset area. Contrast has been modified to make frame-to-frame changes easier to see. The images are in pairs that were taken about 12 seconds apart, with an interval of about 90 seconds between pairs. Timing is accelerated and not fully proportional in this animation. A black frame is added between repeats of the sequence. Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/TAMU

The rover team is also investigating why the lens cover on Curiosity's arm-mounted Mars Hand Lens Imager (MAHLI) did not fully open in response to commands on Feb. 24. The arm has been raised to minimize risk of windborne sand reaching the lens while the cover is partially open. Diagnostic tests of the lens cover are planned this week.

During the first year after Curiosity's 2012 landing in Gale Crater, the mission fulfilled its main goal by finding that the region once offered environmental conditions favorable for microbial life. The conditions in long-lived ancient freshwater Martian lake environments included all of the key chemical elements needed for life as we know it, plus a chemical source of energy that is used by many microbes on Earth. The extended mission is investigating how and when the habitable ancient conditions evolved into conditions drier and less favorable for life.

Dust devils dance in the distance in this sequence of images taken by the Navigation Camera on NASA's Curiosity Mars rover on Feb. 12, 2017, during the summer afternoon of the rover's 1,607th Martian day, or sol. Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/TAMU

This sequence of images shows a dust-carrying whirlwind, called a dust devil, on lower Mount Sharp inside Gale Crater, as viewed by NASA's Curiosity Mars Rover during the summer afternoon of the rover's 1,613rd Martian day, or sol (Feb. 18, 2017). Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/TAMU

Explore further: Mars Rover Curiosity reaches sand dunes

More information: Mackenzie Day et al. Observations of an aeolian landscape: From surface to orbit in Gale Crater, Icarus (2016). DOI: 10.1016/j.icarus.2015.09.042

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691Boat
5 / 5 (5) Feb 28, 2017
I felt the urge and made this:
https://www.memem...e/plasma
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (9) Feb 28, 2017
The dust devil is an electric discharge. Observation would suggest some if not all of these dust devils reach right to the ionosphere.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (8) Feb 28, 2017
The dust devil is an electric discharge. Observation would suggest some if not all of these dust devils reach right to the ionosphere.

What observation? Your interpretation of the above pictures?
Ever seen dust devils on an open piece of farmland? I have. My observation said wind and temperature inversion.
I mean, considering the very weak magnetic field of Mars, very little EM could be drawn from it...
At least not enough to generate dust devils...
yep
1 / 5 (6) Mar 01, 2017
"... even small terrestrial dust devils produce radio noise and electrical fields greater then 10,000 volts per meter"
http://www.berkel...ust.html
jonesdave
4.6 / 5 (9) Mar 01, 2017
"... even small terrestrial dust devils produce radio noise and electrical fields greater then 10,000 volts per meter"
http://www.berkel...ust.html


And your point is......? They are caused by wind, temperature etc. Nowhere in that article does it suggest otherwise. Once started, the friction between the grains can produce electrical charging. Nothing new here. It is why you can get lightning in volcanic plumes.
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (6) Mar 01, 2017
If jonesdumb were up on the science he would know that saltation cannot account for the high voltages. He is blinded by fear and irrelevance and results his irrational attempts to label all that he is ignorant of as "woo".
691Boat
5 / 5 (10) Mar 01, 2017
"... even small terrestrial dust devils produce radio noise and electrical fields greater then 10,000 volts per meter"

Did you even read what you quoted? "dust devils PRODUCE.." not "dust devils are CAUSED BY...."
I can generate tens of thousands of volts by dragging my feet across carpet. Does that mean that plasma physics and an electric sun caused me to drag my feet across the room?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (6) Mar 01, 2017
"... even small terrestrial dust devils produce radio noise and electrical fields greater then 10,000 volts per meter"
http://www.berkel...ust.html

That's voltage potential (which does nothing on it's own without a "conduit of flow"), not current (the part of electricity which actually does something...)
The dust devil is not dense enuff to generate a higher potential which might possibly allow for (a little) current.
BTW;
691 - great response!
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Mar 01, 2017
If jonesdumb were up on the science he would know that saltation cannot account for the high voltages.

Not linearly, no. If in a rapidly rotating loop it sure can, tho...
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (8) Mar 01, 2017
Ever seen dust devils on an open piece of farmland? I have. My observation said wind and temperature inversion.

Your observation? I believe that is what is referred to as "artistic license".
I mean, considering the very weak magnetic field of Mars, very little EM could be drawn from it...
At least not enough to generate dust devils...

So more meaningless blather from the art major... That very weak magnetic field allows for the Sun's plasma to reach deeply in to the atmosphere, likely to the surface in the form of these discharge vortices.
https://www.scien...mosphere
https://science.n...stdevils
jonesdave
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 01, 2017
Some people are just thick. Bugger all we can do to help the idiots. We can always try, of course, Still, there is thick, and there is thick.
Ever thought of taking a science course cantthink?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (4) Mar 01, 2017
Some people are just thick. Bugger all we can do to help the idiots. We can always try, of course, Still, there is thick, and there is thick.
Ever thought of taking a science course cantthink?

"knowledge is what's left after you've forgotten everything you learned in University" (Einstein).
Either there is something so traumatic he can't forget it, or he never learned it in the 1st place...
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (4) Mar 01, 2017
Some people are just thick. Bugger all we can do to help the idiots. We can always try, of course, Still, there is thick, and there is thick.
Ever thought of taking a science course cantthink?

What? So I can learn me about some fanciful ideal gases? Or them Unicorns of Astrophysics such as dark matter or black holes. Astrologists add more to society than astrophysicists and their faerie tales.
yep
1 / 5 (3) Mar 02, 2017
My point is charge seperation occurs from space to under ground and everywhere in between. It effects weather as a catalyst in the creation of dust devils, tornados, and hurricanes to earthquakes and volcanos and the science has been building to prove this. Eventually even you dumb cunts will have to except this "plasma" reality we exist in.
https://www.nas.n...-15.html
yep
1 / 5 (3) Mar 02, 2017
That's voltage potential (which does nothing on it's own without a "conduit of flow"), not current (the part of electricity which actually does something...)
The dust devil is not dense enuff to generate a higher potential which might possibly allow for (a little) current.!

You are not seeing the larger picture, artist are supposed to be open minded but you always want to play it safe with the consensus stooges that do not think beyond what they were told. Remember science shows the mind becomes rigid with age and new truths are difficult to accept even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
http://www.suspic...er-1.pdf

My apologies to the grammar nazi's for the glaring mistake in my last post I realize I F up, but keep your replys to what is pertinent I "accept" I am a dumb cunt myself sometimes.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Mar 02, 2017
My point is charge seperation occurs from space to under ground and everywhere in between. It effects weather as a catalyst in the creation of dust devils, tornados, and hurricanes to earthquakes and volcanos and the science has been building to prove this. Eventually even you dumb cunts will have to except this "plasma" reality we exist in.
https://www.nas.n...-15.html

Well, let me share the definition of "plasma" with you;
an ionized gas consisting of positive ions and free electrons in proportions resulting in more or less no overall electric charge, typically at low pressures (as in the upper atmosphere and in fluorescent lamps) or at very high temperatures (as in stars and nuclear fusion reactors).
Notice where it says - resulting in more or less NO overall electric charge.
at that scale, electricity does less of the work, magnetism and gravity do more.
They all shift their relative effects at varying scales. Mass density.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Mar 02, 2017
You are not seeing the larger picture, artist are supposed to be open minded

No, you're too focused to really see the larger picture.
Remember science shows the mind becomes rigid with age

I wish other parts would...
and new truths are difficult to accept even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

They're not new, just pointed in the wrong direction.
(kinda like those other parts...)
... I "accept" I am a dumb cunt myself sometimes.

I read the etymology on that word. Kinda interesting...
Was an acronym initially, for females who didn't attend to the minutia of housework - untidy, lazy, undisciplined, lower classed...
cantdrive85
1.4 / 5 (5) Mar 02, 2017
Well, let me share the definition of "plasma" with you;
an ionized gas consisting of positive ions and free electrons in proportions resulting in more or less no overall electric charge, typically at low pressures (as in the upper atmosphere and in fluorescent lamps) or at very high temperatures.

Thanks for pointing out that fluorescent lamps are plasma, over in the other thread on Lyman emission you guys stumbled over each other demanding that "cloud" of flourescing hydrogen was somehow not a plasma.
Anyways, here is one single observation which shows on a fairly large scale a condition which violates your "definition".
https://physics.a...s/v6/131
So as shown by direct observation a voltage drop can occur low density plasmas. And if you had read either of the links I had posted above even the folks over at NASA agree that charge separation can certainly occur on Mars. It's the equalization that makes things interesting.
cantdrive85
2.3 / 5 (3) Mar 02, 2017
I read the etymology on that word. Kinda interesting...
Was an acronym initially, for females who didn't attend to the minutia of housework - untidy, lazy, undisciplined, lower classed...

Dammit Jim! Sounds like my wife...
TheGhostofOtto1923
5 / 5 (3) Mar 02, 2017
Curiosity just made another extended stop to look at sand again.

They need to get further up the mountain where all the fossils are.

Enough dawdling. Get thee to the mountain.
691Boat
5 / 5 (5) Mar 02, 2017
Thanks for pointing out that fluorescent lamps are plasma, over in the other thread on Lyman emission you guys stumbled over each other demanding that "cloud" of flourescing hydrogen was somehow not a plasma.

Well, considering most flourescent lamps I know of are filled with inert gases, and not Hydrogen, you are not making any valid point here with your statement. I think their point on the Lyman emissions is that the spectrums are very well known, especially if Hydrogen gets ionized. IIRC, the spectrums they were seeing were not related to the capture of an electron by ionized Hydrogen, but of orbital transitions of non-ionized hydrogen.
691Boat
5 / 5 (6) Mar 02, 2017
My point is charge seperation occurs from space to under ground and everywhere in between. It effects weather as a catalyst in the creation of dust devils, tornados, and hurricanes to earthquakes and volcanos and the science has been building to prove this. Eventually even you dumb cunts will have to except this "plasma" reality we exist in.
https://www.nas.n...-15.html

Nowhere in that link does it say that charge separation has anything to do with earthquakes. They say they can maybe detect an electrical pulse, but nothing says they monitor the electric universe creating charge separation at the fault line, thus causing an earthquake. Maybe the pulse they are seeing are due to a short magnetic flux as the plates do their shift, which alters the way the natural magnetic field is passing through the plates at that time. I honestly doubt plasma has anything to do with earthquakes.
691Boat
5 / 5 (5) Mar 02, 2017
If your plasma universe stuff does really have an effect on weather here on earth, why do the Aurora Borealis events not have signature storms associated with them? Seems like the perfect time to test that theory. It is a direct interaction of the solar wind (an actual plasma!) with our atmosphere, so why don't they focus up there?
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (1) Mar 02, 2017
If your plasma universe stuff does really have an effect on weather here on earth, why do the Aurora Borealis events not have signature storms associated with them?

It's old news, try and keep up.

http://www.nature...-1.15229
691Boat
5 / 5 (5) Mar 02, 2017
If your plasma universe stuff does really have an effect on weather here on earth, why do the Aurora Borealis events not have signature storms associated with them?

It's old news, try and keep up.

http://www.nature...-1.15229


Question for you: How long do solar wind streams last?
From the article you linked:
"The scientists found that, on average, 422 lightning bolts per day occurred in the 40 days after the arrival of high-speed solar-wind streams at Earth. In the 40 days before its arrival, there was an average of 321 lightning strikes per day."
Not knowing why they chose 40 days before and after, it seems like they cherry picked that range because it fit the narrative. thoughts?
jonesdave
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 02, 2017
Not knowing why they chose 40 days before and after, it seems like they cherry picked that range because it fit the narrative. thoughts?


TBF to the authors, I do think that this is a serious study. However, having read the paper, it is obvious that there are a number of unknowns, and they aren't suggesting that this is a done deal.
As it is, all that they are claiming is that a population of solar energetic protons (SEPs) could reach the altitude at which thunderstorms occur. These SEPs would cause the atmosphere to be somewhat more conducting at that altitude. However, the weather that causes thunderstorms is a prerequisite. No thunderstorms, no lightning, regardless of the arrival of SEPs.

http://www.met.re...5004.pdf

Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Mar 02, 2017
If your plasma universe stuff does really have an effect on weather here on earth, why do the Aurora Borealis events not have signature storms associated with them? Seems like the perfect time to test that theory. It is a direct interaction of the solar wind (an actual plasma!) with our atmosphere, so why don't they focus up there?

Angular attack. Notice that aurora's only occur in more northern latitudes. A Rayleigh like scattering artifact?
Which makes me ask - do we have Aurora's in the SOUTHERN hemisphere...?
And CD. the "old" news did not address Boat's question, therefore making it NO news...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Mar 02, 2017
Not knowing why they chose 40 days before and after, it seems like they cherry picked that range because it fit the narrative. thoughts?


don't rally think it was "cherry-picked" to make it fit the data.. 80 days seems like as good a number as any...

As it is, all that they are claiming is that a population of solar energetic protons (SEPs) could reach the altitude at which thunderstorms occur. These SEPs would cause the atmosphere to be somewhat more conducting at that altitude.

I just think the separate charges have less conductive matter between them. Means the voltage increases to compensate. Try breaking the atmosphere into "layered levels of resistance"- The more particulate matter, the lower the resistance...
However, the weather that causes thunderstorms is a prerequisite. No thunderstorms, no lightning,

Water is a pretty good conductor...
regardless of the arrival of SEPs.

Agreed.
691Boat
5 / 5 (3) Mar 02, 2017
TBF to the authors, I do think that this is a serious study. However, having read the paper, it is obvious that there are a number of unknowns, and they aren't suggesting that this is a done deal.
As it is, all that they are claiming is that a population of solar energetic protons (SEPs) could reach the altitude at which thunderstorms occur. These SEPs would cause the atmosphere to be somewhat more conducting at that altitude. However, the weather that causes thunderstorms is a prerequisite. No thunderstorms, no lightning, regardless of the arrival of SEPs.


Right. No argument that it is a real study. I am just not familiar with how long these solar wind streams would be interacting for any given time period. If it is 8 hours, then I think the study has no merit. If it is weeks or months, Then it could definitely be a factor.
I would also agree that other weather conditions need to be met before these SEPs seem to be likely to have any appreciable effect though.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (3) Mar 02, 2017
Right. No argument that it is a real study. I am just not familiar with how long these solar wind streams would be interacting for any given time period. If it is 8 hours, then I think the study has no merit. If it is weeks or months, Then it could definitely be a factor.
I would also agree that other weather conditions need to be met before these SEPs seem to be likely to have any appreciable effect though.

Personally, I think it is more a matter of charge dissipation lag time.... Charge builds up pretty fast, conductivity remains the same(generally), exchange time to equalizaton is dragged out....
The conductor is controller. Mass density.
691Boat
5 / 5 (4) Mar 02, 2017
Clearly we've gone off topic a bit, but from what I have read regarding these high velocity solar wind storms, it seems that the length of time any given storm would be interacting with any body in the solar system would be relatively short (days at most?) since the whole system is dynamic, with regards to the sun rotating on its axis, as well as earth rotating on its own axis, while in an orbit around the sun. I know we get hit by CMEs on occasion, but they are not lengthy events, and we do not get hit by every one. I would believe the occurrence of these SEPs would also be on a limited frequency and duration. Just my two cents.
jonesdave
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 02, 2017
Clearly we've gone off topic a bit, but from what I have read regarding these high velocity solar wind storms, it seems that the length of time any given storm would be interacting with any body in the solar system would be relatively short (days at most?) since the whole system is dynamic, with regards to the sun rotating on its axis, as well as earth rotating on its own axis, while in an orbit around the sun. I know we get hit by CMEs on occasion, but they are not lengthy events, and we do not get hit by every one. I would believe the occurrence of these SEPs would also be on a limited frequency and duration. Just my two cents.


I think they are arguing that these conditions could persist for some days. However, the main point is that the SEPs would only be responsible for increased conductivity around and within the cloud. This ***may*** account for an increase in lightning. Cosmic rays have been proposed as doing a similar thing. The data is not conclusive however.
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (4) Mar 03, 2017
Not knowing why they chose 40 days before and after, it seems like they cherry picked that range because it fit the narrative. thoughts?

Cherry picked? Narrative? LOL!
TBF to the authors, I do think that this is a serious study.

You people are unbelievable, truly pathetic. You know it's serious because it wasn't written by an astrophysicist and there is no comment on DM or BH pseudoscience.
the "old" news did not address Boat's question

I addressed the "if" part, and yes it addressed the likelihood of solar storms/wind affecting the weather. To the polar point there is an article just today which points to other phenomena related to these events.
https://phys.org/...rth.html
Why no storms? Possibly no available charges as they seem to be evacuated from the region.
Note; until these "scientist" approach these systems as parts of larger circuits they will continue to be mystified and perplexed.
691Boat
5 / 5 (3) Mar 03, 2017
Not knowing why they chose 40 days before and after, it seems like they cherry picked that range because it fit the narrative. thoughts?

Cherry picked? Narrative? LOL!

It was a serious question. Why did they choose 40 days on either side of a storm that is likely only a few days long? There has to be a reason. You are the apparent "expert" in this stuff, so you should have the foolproof and definitive answer to why they chose an 80-day period centered around a short term event.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Mar 03, 2017
@nazi sympathizing eu cult proselytizing pseudoscience troll
Note; until these "scientist" approach these systems as parts of larger circuits they will continue to be mystified and perplexed
here is a serious question:
if your eu cult has the answers, and they can validate their claims with physical evidence, and they know more for whatever reason...

then why haven't they published a viable working theory or some relevant papers which cover this topic that you can link to and scientists can use?

is it because bigfoot stole it?
or do you have another conspiracy theory like your vaccine BS beliefs that are proven false by evidence?

Mind you, i aint talking your pseudoscience thunderidiots site, but an actual science journal, where there is peer review and they can't get away with just making random claims without evidence

also note: articles are not studies
and your interpretation of the info isn't always very good either...
just sayin'
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (2) Mar 03, 2017
Not sure, probably to give a larger data set for statistical analysis. Given it is known that magnetic fields can absorb and store energy it seems rather obvious you wouldn't want to limit your dataset so as to miss the potential results.
Not sure why I have to answer for these researchers, maybe you can tell me why all the pseudoscientists constantly refer to such abominations of science such as DM and BH's?
691Boat
4 / 5 (4) Mar 03, 2017
..Given it is known that magnetic fields can absorb and store energy..
Not sure why I have to answer for these researchers, maybe you can tell me why all the pseudoscientists constantly refer to such abominations of science such as DM and BH's?


From what I have read, solar storms tend to not deposit energy in our magnetic field, unless you have proof of otherwise.
You are answering for the researchers because you posted the link as defense for your theories.
I can't speak to BHs and DM. I will admit to not knowing enough about it to argue its case. Besides, this article and subsequent thread isn't about DM and BHs.
If magnetic fields can absorb and store energy from solar storms, do we see an increase in the magnetic field of earth during these solar storms?
http://www.scienc...ic-field

imfromcanada
4.3 / 5 (6) Mar 03, 2017
If your plasma universe stuff does really have an effect on weather here on earth, why do the Aurora Borealis events not have signature storms associated with them? Seems like the perfect time to test that theory. It is a direct interaction of the solar wind (an actual plasma!) with our atmosphere, so why don't they focus up there?

Angular attack. Notice that aurora's only occur in more northern latitudes. A Rayleigh like scattering artifact?
Which makes me ask - do we have Aurora's in the SOUTHERN hemisphere...?
And CD. the "old" news did not address Boat's question, therefore making it NO news...


Aurora Australis. That's the southern Aurora. They happen around the same latitudes as Borealis does in the north and are essentially identical.
jonesdave
4.2 / 5 (5) Mar 03, 2017
OK. Just to try and summarise this paper again:
http://citeseerx....type=pdf

The proposal is that fast solar wind streams allow more energetic protons to reach the altitude at which thunderstorms form. They have no impact on creating the thunderstorms. They do not cause lightning directly. The claim is that they cause the environment around and within thunderstorms to become more conductive. Therefore, the lightning which already happens from the storms, is more likely to happen, and so can happen more often and/ or there is an increase in the magnitude of strikes, making them more detectable.
This is not a new proposal, other than it is SW ions that are being invoked. Previous studies have invoked cosmic rays as doing the same thing: http://www.nature...4a0.html (1981).
The 40 days figure is the period over which the authors say that they detected an increase in lightning activity.
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (2) Mar 04, 2017
I know you need to frame it in a certain way to protect your way of life jonesdumb, but those "solar wind streams" are Birkeland currents dumping prodigious energy into the Earth's EM circuitry. If you can't see it by now you aren't paying attention.
https://science.n...oct_ftes
This quote from link;
"Researchers have long known that the Earth and sun must be connected. Earth's magnetosphere is filled with particles from the sun that arrive via the solar wind and penetrate the planet's magnetic defenses. They enter by following magnetic field lines that can be traced from terra firma all the way back to the sun's atmosphere."
Those same types of "magnetic field lines" can also reach right to Marra firma and reach all the way back to the Sun's atmosphere...The charges spiraling along these "field lines" (currents) create these dust devils.
One Earth, water and these charges can create weather.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (2) Mar 04, 2017
I know you need to frame it in a certain way to protect your way of life jonesdumb, but those "solar wind streams" are Birkeland currents dumping prodigious energy into the Earth's EM circuitry.

Sucking from.
This quote from link;
"Researchers have long known that the Earth and sun must be connected. Earth's magnetosphere is filled with particles from the sun that arrive via the solar wind and penetrate the planet's magnetic defenses. They enter by following magnetic field lines that can be traced from terra firma all the way back to the sun's atmosphere."

Remember that for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction - expressed in the perpendicular....
Those same types of "magnetic field lines" can also reach right to Marra firma and reach all the way back to the Sun's atmosphere...The charges spiraling along these "field lines" (currents) create these dust devils.
One Earth, water and these charges can create weather.

Perpendicularity...
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (1) Mar 04, 2017
I know you need to frame it in a certain way to protect your way of life jonesdumb, but those "solar wind streams" are Birkeland currents dumping prodigious energy into the Earth's EM circuitry.

Sucking from.
"Researchers have long known that the Earth and sun must be connected. Earth's magnetosphere is filled with particles from the sun that arrive via the solar wind and penetrate the planet's magnetic defenses. They enter by following magnetic field lines that can be traced from terra firma all the way back to the sun's atmosphere."

Remember that for every action there is a equal and opposite reaction - expressed in the perpendicular....
Those same types of "magnetic field lines" can also reach right to Marra firma and reach all the way back to the Sun's atmosphere...The charges spiraling along these "field lines" create these dust devils.
One Earth, water and these charges can create weather.

Perpendicularity...

More "artistic licence".
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (1) Mar 05, 2017
More "artistic licence".

Nope. Just a good basic understanding of the causal mechanic of it all...
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
those "solar wind streams" are Birkeland currents
@nazi sympathizing eu cult pseudoscience idiot
1- your link in no way states solar wind streams are birkeland currents

2- please show where plasma physics education teaches that solar wind streams are birkeland currents

do not link your idiot thunderbutts pseudoscience site - link a reputable journal and validate it with a plasma physics manual in use by higher education

as for your other BS post
the problem isn't anything other than your adherence to a belief system
you are a conspiracy idiot (proven: : http://phys.org/n...ris.html ) so you want to believe everyone is out to attack your eu cult beliefs

science is the only job where you can validate a scientific truth without needing a degree
all you have to do is present the evidence and allow it to be validated

the eu can't get validated because it's basis is in ignorance of fundamental science
also proven
yep
1 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
the eu can't get validated because it's basis is in ignorance of fundamental science
also proven


Birkeland was dead in the ground sixty years before the math against him was proven to be bullshit,
Here we are another sixty years later and we have consensus fools like you so caught up in authority you want to deny what's been proven because entrenched dogma was so inflexible it was unable to grasp reality because the math proved black space magic was real.
Good job Stump you are so smart if only every one could have such a big brain like yours!
https://phys.org/...nts.html
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
Birkeland was dead in the ground sixty years before the math against him was proven to be bullshit
@eu cult acolyte
so? i wasn't asking about how he died or anything else, i want valid provable facts and science
you keep posting BS eu cult sh*t
consensus fools like you so caught up in authority you want to deny what's been proven because entrenched dogma was so inflexible it was unable to grasp reality because the math proved black space magic was real
1- i aint asking for a vote

2- if you have the evidence, you should link the references and journal studies - so why can't you?
Oh... right... because there is a conspiracy against you!
i forgot - bigfoot stole your academic credibility so now you can't get published
Good job Stump
thanks

2Bcont'd
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (2) Mar 05, 2017
@eu cult acolyte cont'd

i had to add something: i asked the following
please show where plasma physics education teaches that solar wind streams are birkeland currents
you linked an article, but the study is important

it also displays your problem
in your own link it says
a powerful electrical connection occurs with Earth's field, generating millions of amperes of current that drive the dazzling auroras. These so-called Birkeland currents...
and they have references

if you actually read those you find this
The Birkeland current system is responsible for electrodynamically linking the magnetopause, the inner magnetosphere, and the ionosphere.
http://onlinelibr...bib-0009

so that tells me that the "solar wind streams" are not birkeland currents
not all solar wind streams hit the earth to become bc's either

so you're interpreting the science based upon ignorance and cult propaganda
yep
1 / 5 (1) Mar 06, 2017
so that tells me that the "solar wind streams" are not birkeland currents
not all solar wind streams hit the earth to become bc's either
so you're interpreting the science based upon ignorance and cult propaganda


Come on you stupid twat, solar winds create the birkeland currents and Cantdrive is obviously relating that simple concept to jones dumb because you do not have one without the other. It's about the connection through the layers which brings us back to my original post but you do not want to see the big picture because your stuck on a stupid and the us vs them mentality, get over it.
Porgie
not rated yet Mar 07, 2017
Sometimes I worry a great deal about our left wing scientific community when they come to unshakable conclusions like the wind moves dust and sand blasts mountains. I got that concept in second grade.

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