What makes us care about climate change?

April 26, 2016 by Greta Guest

It's been argued that how much we know about climate change is unrelated to how much we care about addressing it.

But focusing primarily on cultural drivers, as is the case with emerging research on "cultural cognition," takes us on a path that misses critical characteristics of knowledge, according to a University of Michigan study published in Nature Climate Change.

"We looked at this emerging work, and immediately had problems with how knowledge and culture were being measured—specifically not measured," said Joseph Arvai, the Max McGraw Professor of Sustainable Enterprise at the U-M School of Natural Resources and Environment and the Ross School of Business.

"What others were measuring had little to do with climate change and more to do with general scientific literacy. They also relied on what amounts to U.S.-based political ideologies as a proxy for culture."

So Arvai and co-authors Jing Shi, Vivianne Visschers and Michael Siegrist from ETH Zurich measured climate-specific knowledge and cultural differences across six countries.

"What we found was that culture plays a relatively small role, and that knowledge about climate plays a larger one," Arvai said. "Why is this important? If you take the previous cultural work at face value, it paints a hopeless and pessimistic picture. It sends the message that there's little we can do until 'culture' changes, which tends to be very slow.

"Our research clearly shows that education and decision support aimed at the public and policy makers is not a lost cause."

Knowledge about the causes of climate change was correlated with higher levels of concern about climate change in all of the countries studied—Canada, China, Germany, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States.

"We think this is because knowledge about causes cements in our minds the fact that it's human actions that have set the risks in motion, and that human action may be taken to reduce the risks," Arvai said. "This finding was weakest in China, perhaps because the emphasis is on economic growth, even it comes at the expense of the environment."

Knowledge about the consequences of climate change was also a strong predictor of concern. But greater about the biophysical dimensions of climate change tended to dampen public concern.

"We think this is because focusing on the technical dimensions of a problem like dehumanizes it and focuses our collective attention away from the individuals and communities—human and nonhuman—that are at the gravest risk," Arvai said.

Explore further: New book argues that social sciences are critical to climate conversation

More information: Jing Shi et al. Knowledge as a driver of public perceptions about climate change reassessed, Nature Climate Change (2016). DOI: 10.1038/nclimate2997

Related Stories

Climate change worsens risks to public health

April 5, 2016

All Americans are vulnerable to the health impacts associated with climate change at some point in their lives, no matter where they live, according to a new report from U.S. Global Change Research Program. The report published ...

Everyone sees the world through their own prism

March 8, 2016

How can public opinion be influenced in favor of climate protection? ETH political scientist Thomas Bernauer explored the question in a recent study. His sobering answer is that there is no magic formula.

Recommended for you

Solving the mystery of the Arctic's green ice

March 29, 2017

In 2011, researchers observed something that should be impossible—a massive bloom of phytoplankton growing under Arctic sea ice in conditions that should have been far too dark for anything requiring photosynthesis to survive. ...

160 comments

Adjust slider to filter visible comments by rank

Display comments: newest first

antigoresockpuppet
3.4 / 5 (38) Apr 26, 2016
More troll bait.

The only things that oxygen thieves like antirational, canthink, obamasucker and zephir's many puppets care about is 1). jerking off, 2). someone towing their trailer, and 3) eating. As climate change doesn't directly and immediately have an effect on any of those, it doesn't exist in their "minds".

And those that do care? Have a brain. Duh. What a study. People with a life care about what's happening to the environment and people without one don't. I think we knew that.
Forestgnome
3.9 / 5 (24) Apr 26, 2016
Knowledge about the causes of climate change increases concern (read climate deniers are ignorant), but getting into the technical dimensions decreases concern. Yes, let's not get too technical about the issue, or more people might not care. Really? I know why I don't care....objectivity.
kaiserderden
1.5 / 5 (33) Apr 26, 2016
I find that the less someone knows about climate change the more they seem to care about addressing it ...
NiteSkyGerl
3.1 / 5 (43) Apr 26, 2016
I think that's why the US is at the epicenter of denial. That's an American virtue, the flip side of their bone deep anti-intellectualism. "Ignorance is knowledge". It's the farmer that's never been to an art gallery saying, "I don't know anything about art, but I know what I like, and I don't like *that*!" There's no respect for the professionals that have done the hard yards. That's taken as disqualifying; divorced from their reality. Which it is because their reality is ignorance and people shouting their opinions. You see those threads repeated constantly in denier posts.
Benni
2.7 / 5 (43) Apr 26, 2016
There's no respect for the professionals that have done the hard yards.


..........because there are so many pf these self-appointed "professionals" who have gone so far as to infer manmade CO² is affecting volcanic activity emanating from Earth's core.

You want respect? Don't make ludicrous claims.
bschott
1.3 / 5 (28) Apr 26, 2016
People with a life care about what's happening to the environment and people without one don't. I think we knew that.


So why is it that the countries with the most wealth are the biggest polluters? If you have money, you don't have a life? Or did you just proclaim the opposite of reality as truth....

I find that the less someone knows about climate change the more they seem to care about addressing it ...


That explains comment number 1.

You want respect? Don't make ludicrous claims.


I believe this is the crux of most of things we take issue with here. Of course what is ludicrous is a personal perspective....hence the flame wars.

gkam
3 / 5 (41) Apr 26, 2016
We care because it is our Life-Support System.
runrig
4.8 / 5 (26) Apr 26, 2016
The deniers have one unifying trait. They are selfish "not with my tax dollars".
Actually I would say sociopathic.
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (28) Apr 26, 2016
The AGW Chicken Littles have one unifying trait, stupidity.
BongThePuffin
Apr 26, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Noumenon
1.4 / 5 (35) Apr 26, 2016
I think that's why the US is at the epicenter of denial. That's an American virtue, the flip side of their bone deep anti-intellectualism. "Ignorance is knowledge".


Yes, America is backward and full of hillbillies. What a wonderful generality. (sarcasm). Do you not see that you have been victimized by propaganda, yourself? What a stupid comment.

Which is a why efforts to mitigate AGW should not rely on the effectiveness of propaganda at all,... unless their is some ulterior motive.

Pumastar
2.4 / 5 (23) Apr 26, 2016
hohoho
antigoracle
1.1 / 5 (27) Apr 26, 2016
Think of the cognitive ability of someone, who would create a sock puppet just for that response which confirms my statement of fact. Were you born that stupid, or have you been practicing?
HeloMenelo
3.2 / 5 (34) Apr 26, 2016
There's no respect for the professionals that have done the hard yards.


..........because there are so many pf these self-appointed "professionals" who have gone so far as to infer manmade CO² is affecting volcanic activity emanating from Earth's core.

You want respect? Don't make ludicrous claims.


aaaa monkey wants some fun getting ridiculed as always... yes ? ;) well lets have it.... aaah this is going to be fun :D

Here benni aka antigoricle ala obama socks monkey talks about respect while he's been making ludricous claims that he can never support, it doesn't get more ludricous and hilarious than this :D
HeloMenelo
2.9 / 5 (32) Apr 26, 2016
Think of the cognitive ability of someone, who would create a sock puppet just for that response which confirms my statement of fact. Were you born that stupid, or have you been practicing?


Aaa yes the statement you made as your Obama socks puppet that reveealed you created many sockpuppets and admitted in using them lol... monkey wants to play... lets start by handing out a bananna...come and get it.... :D
HeloMenelo
3.2 / 5 (35) Apr 26, 2016
We care because it is our Life-Support System.

It sure is, well said.

HeloMenelo
3.1 / 5 (35) Apr 26, 2016
The AGW Chicken Littles have one unifying trait, stupidity.


Monkey antisciencegorilla and the socks he created have one vision and understanding and that is Be the Monkey !
antigoresockpuppet
3.1 / 5 (36) Apr 26, 2016
Sugar Daddy dissin' sock puppets??? Does this mean we're breaking up?
jim_xanara
2.9 / 5 (38) Apr 26, 2016
You won't be missing much. He can't be much of a man. Real men aren't terrified of Al Gore.
Ojorf
4.7 / 5 (15) Apr 26, 2016
This will demonstrate to the deniers just where they stand.
It is a great idea, have a look:

https://www.indie...ews--2#/

Climate Feedback is bringing together scientists from around the world to sort fact from fiction in mainstream media coverage of climate change, helping the public know which climate news to trust.

Solon
4.1 / 5 (14) Apr 26, 2016
The deniers have one unifying trait. They are selfish "not with my tax dollars".
Actually I would say sociopathic.


Guess the Ausies are all sociopaths then.
http://www.youtub...l4geSTP8
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (24) Apr 26, 2016
Climate Feedback is bringing together scientists from around the world to sort fact from fiction in mainstream media coverage of climate change, helping the public know which climate news to trust.

Just as the Church, exploited the ignorance of their flock by preaching to them the "truth" that they so willingly accepted, the AGW Cult now imitate to theirs who are incapable of independent thought.
Maggnus
4.7 / 5 (24) Apr 26, 2016
I find that the less someone knows about climate change the more they seem to care about addressing it ...
Naw, they just make stupider and irrational comments about it. Stuff like "actually AGW is the opiate for you ... it hasn't warmed in 20 years but you still keep praying to the sky hoping for disaster ...

Only a complete idiot would make such a comment!
Benni
2.4 / 5 (39) Apr 26, 2016
We care because it is our Life-Support System


Well geek, I quit paying attention to the "end of the world doomsdayers" by about the 3rd time in my life the world was supposed to end.

After the 2nd time the world came to an end, I looked on the mounting stockpile of canned red wheat & gold dropping in price & another baby on the way & bills to pay, it then dawned on me that real world events were more important than Apocalyptic dogma, besides, you ever try eating gold? How about photovoltaic cells? Windturbines for dining cuisine anyone?

After the 3rd time the end of the world occurred, gold again took a nice little jump & we sold it at a small profit & bought many acres of rural real estate. I'm sure you're just dying for wanting to know the dates aren't you?

Now my wife is clamoring for a Tesla "S", but I'm recalcitrant because it still lurks in the back of my mind that there just may be a chance the sun could still go dark & there'd be no way to recharge it.
john berry_hobbes
2.9 / 5 (37) Apr 26, 2016
Wasn't it Frank Zappa that said, "Being an intellectual in the USA is like having some horribly disfiguring disease"?

You see that reading the troll spam on this thread. They don't just disagree, they're disgusted. The kind of disgust one would display if they were being served finger foods by someone with a really advanced case of Hansen's Disease (leprosy). It's exactly the same reaction. Frank was right.
runrig
4.8 / 5 (23) Apr 26, 2016
Which is a why efforts to mitigate AGW should not rely on the effectiveness of propaganda at all,... unless their is some ulterior motive.


I would have thought that "efforts to mitigate AGW" should begin with education and not wearing ignorance as a badge of honour.
john berry_hobbes
2.9 / 5 (38) Apr 26, 2016
Benni 1 / 5 (1) 7 minutes ago

We care because it is our Life-Support System


Well geek, I quit paying attention to the "end of the world doomsdayers" by about the 3rd time in my life the world was supposed to end.


You haven't been keeping track of the xtian idiots that say that daily. That just shows how impossibly inconsistent these denier types are. With clear data to suggest that the environment is in pretty poor shape, mainly for species like us, they throw caution to the winds, seek impossible data to refute claims they won't pin down, and are skeptical of everything.

And then most will tell you that Sky Daddy is real, will send you to eternal torment if you don't do what they paedophile pastor told them to tell you to do, and that you had BETTER BE SCARED OF HELL! With absolutely zero evidence. Zilch. Nada.

It's a good example of what a number of folks have commented here recently about how their positions are based on ego identity not facts.
mememine69
1.2 / 5 (19) Apr 26, 2016
Liberalism's climate blame consultants are now also only 99% sure the planet isn't flat and smoking "could" cause cancer, maybe, potentially, could be, hopefully, hate and blame conservatives at any cost.
Who's the redneck in history? Not deniers.
*Even Occupy no longer mentions CO2 in it's list of demands because 35 MORE years of debate and climate action failure is certain and unstoppable.
BongThePuffin
Apr 26, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Benni
2.6 / 5 (36) Apr 26, 2016
With clear data to suggest that the environment is in pretty poor shape, mainly for species like us, they throw caution to the winds, seek impossible data to refute claims they won't pin down


.......Do you seriously expect me to believe that manmade CO² emissions can cause volcanic activity, a process that emanates from the Earth's core? Are you on the side of that claim? Get updated on that claim because it's only the Apocalyptic mania that so permeates the AGW mindset that dwells on such ludicrous "funny farm science".

By the way, got any dates you care to drop?
Noumenon
2 / 5 (34) Apr 26, 2016
American virtue, the flip side of their bone deep anti-intellectualism. "Ignorance is knowledge".

Which is a why efforts to mitigate AGW should not rely on the effectiveness of propaganda at all,... unless their is some ulterior motive.


I would have thought that "efforts to mitigate AGW" should begin with education and not wearing ignorance as a badge of honour.


Idiot comments like NiteSkyGerl are why propaganda is dangerous. If a dolt can be made to believe what she posted, then what else? Leftist ideology?

To answer your question,.... the masses do not act for the collective, they act as individuals for their immediate benefit,..... reality. So, attempting to convince people to consume less or go to extra expense will not work.

What WILL work is a massive investment in future energy tech, on a Manhattan'esque scale. This includes safer nuclear fission and R&D fustion, CO2 sequestration, etc,.. and migration and adaptation.
gkam
2.8 / 5 (33) Apr 26, 2016
"So, attempting to convince people to consume less or go to extra expense will not work."
--------------------------------------

Yes, it will, if they understand the longer-term benefits.
Benni
3 / 5 (36) Apr 26, 2016
"So, attempting to convince people to consume less or go to extra expense will not work."

--------------------------------------

Yes, it will, if they understand the longer-term benefits.


No, it will not geek. It's because stretching a real world paycheck at the median income level of the average American family is such a short term proposition, there's no money left over at the end of the paycheck.

When the struggle is getting the current bills paid today, tomorrow's pie in the sky stuff never occurs to the general populace because they never have the money to ponder the additional expense in the first place...........I mean $20k to install a PV system that you have no guarantees will even supply half your energy needs?

Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (35) Apr 26, 2016
"So, attempting to convince people to consume less or go to extra expense will not work."
--------------------------------------

Yes, it will, if they understand the longer-term benefits.


Well, no, because those longer-term benefits are theoretically indefinite and not immediately personal. People simply don't act for the collective as the benefit is spread over into ephemerality,... they also don't think in century long terms. Most AGW-Enthusiasts still drive CO2 based cars, for example.

Forestgnome
1 / 5 (17) Apr 26, 2016
It's the farmer that's never been to an art gallery saying, "I don't know anything about art, but I know what I like, and I don't like *that*!"

That's really a good analogy, abstract art and the science of AGW. It really is a very creative form of science.
leetennant
4.8 / 5 (16) Apr 26, 2016
I've been critical of previous studies that seemed to over-emphasise US-centric political dichotomies so this is welcome. It's good to know that education can overcome ignorance and we're not locked into the side effects of cognitive dissonance caused by rigid ontologies.
Uncle Ira
4.7 / 5 (27) Apr 26, 2016
Wowweeei, I never thought it would ever happen. I agree partly with you AND Bennie-Skippy AND Nounmenon-Skippy too. I hope all three of you notice that I did not down vote you on this one. It at least looks like everybody is thinking.

glam-Skippy. You CAN teach peoples about what is in their best interests. But to do that, you first got to make them socially-financially-tribaly secure. You got to make them "know" that our tribe (culture) will still be around in 100 or 200 years. And convince them there is enough resources to go around.

To live the way you think we should live, there has to be a dramatic reduction in the world population. There are just so much resources to go around. 75% of the 7 billions of peoples in the world want to be in the EU, or North America. They want what you have, and it's only human nature for them to try to get it. You don't have enough resources to give it to them all.

90% of the world's population's self interest is now and this year.
michael_frishberg
4.6 / 5 (21) Apr 26, 2016
I am curious about the whole "Sustainable Enterprise" idea.

There is not one human trajectory that is sustainable, ecologically speaking.
We're expecting 30% more people in 34 years.

(7.4Bn today, 9.7Bn 2050) (And at least 7.4 for the next 100 years...)

What could go wrong?

And the authors are 'happy' that there 'may be a way' (not a lost cause) to have politicians act like they care about the future of humanity, the planet, or humanity on the planet.

We're extinct within 100 years. Don't have kids.

vhemt.org
gkam
2.8 / 5 (32) Apr 26, 2016
".I mean $20k to install a PV system that you have no guarantees will even supply half your energy needs?"
-----------------------------------

Is that what you mean? My PV system cost me $12,400 and today produced twice what the house uses. The rest went into my car and to run the meter backwards.

Gee, I didn't even need differential equations to do that, did I?
gkam
2.6 / 5 (36) Apr 26, 2016
" those longer-term benefits are theoretically indefinite and not immediately personal"
-------------------------------

They are immediate as well as long term, and very personal.

The first time they drive one with its responsiveness may do it for them, but the monthly savings on gas/oil and quarterly savings on maintenance will win them over completely.
Captain Stumpy
3.8 / 5 (22) Apr 26, 2016
My PV system cost me $12,400
and what about those who don't make that a year?
who is going to pay for their PV?

.

.

Wowweeei, I never thought it would ever happen. ...Bennie-Skippy AND Nounmenon-Skippy too
@Ira
shocking, isn't it LOL
but they make very good points... and that is also the reason there are so many anti-AGW folk out there, really

IMHO - for many that i know locally, it's not so much because they don't understand the science, but because the financial implications are making them fearful of the necessity of change

Education can only go so far with that one... tech will have to step up to the plate

(ignoring the obvious idiot trolls like deng, alche, antig, shooty, cantdrive, zeph and those who actually don't comprehend the science... )
antigoracle
1.2 / 5 (24) Apr 26, 2016
I've been critical of previous studies that seemed to over-emphasise US-centric political dichotomies so this is welcome. It's good to know that education can overcome ignorance and we're not locked into the side effects of cognitive dissonance caused by rigid ontologies.

Uh huh. Otherwise you might just make up lies, like the following.
The predictions for hurricanes and cyclones were for LESS of larger MAGNITUDE.

LOL
Phys1
4.3 / 5 (17) Apr 27, 2016
I find that the less someone knows about climate change the more they seem to care about addressing it ...

Speak for yourself.
Phys1
4.3 / 5 (18) Apr 27, 2016
There's no respect for the professionals that have done the hard yards.


..........because there are so many pf these self-appointed "professionals" who have gone so far as to infer manmade CO² is affecting volcanic activity emanating from Earth's core.

You want respect? Don't make ludicrous claims.

Benni, what is CO² ? Could there be an error in your mathematical differential Einstein/Zwicky equation of carbon dioxide? Could you have overreached your scientific skills?
Phys1
4.3 / 5 (17) Apr 27, 2016

You want respect? Don't make ludicrous claims.

Speak for yourself.
Phys1
4.3 / 5 (18) Apr 27, 2016
.......Do you seriously expect me to believe that manmade CO² emissions can cause volcanic activity, a process that emanates from the Earth's core?

You believe anything you like and reject anything you don't like.
Making sense is not part of your decisions.
So it boils down to the question, do you like the idea?
Phys1
4.3 / 5 (18) Apr 27, 2016
@fickle
We already know that stuff about chicken littles. You have been repeating yourself quite a bit in the past years.
What about underwear of other people's wives? Any news?
gkam
2.3 / 5 (36) Apr 27, 2016
"and what about those who don't make that a year? who is going to pay for their PV?"
---------------------------------

Is THAT your excuse??

Pathetic. Many of the rest of us are doing our part as well as we can, and not just hiding.
HeloMenelo
2.6 / 5 (27) Apr 27, 2016
Climate Feedback is bringing together scientists from around the world to sort fact from fiction in mainstream media coverage of climate change, helping the public know which climate news to trust.

Just as the Church, exploited the ignorance of their flock by preaching to them the "truth" that they so willingly accepted, the AGW Cult now imitate to theirs who are incapable of independent thought.


But monkey antigoracle, you need your sockpuppets they comfort you, even though it is sockpuppets of yourself, all 27 of them :D

http://phys.org/n...ate.html
HeloMenelo
2.7 / 5 (28) Apr 27, 2016
I've been critical of previous studies that seemed to over-emphasise US-centric political dichotomies so this is welcome. It's good to know that education can overcome ignorance and we're not locked into the side effects of cognitive dissonance caused by rigid ontologies.
Uh huh. Otherwise you might just make up lies, like the following.

You talking about the lies that you made up here:

http://phys.org/n...ate.html

Monkey wants bannanas ! :D :D
HeloMenelo
2.7 / 5 (26) Apr 27, 2016

That's really a good analogy, abstract art and the science of AGW. It really is a very creative form of science.


Forestgnome is a really good example of an antigoracle sockpuppet posting as much as his 2 braincells can think up :D

Phys1
4.2 / 5 (15) Apr 27, 2016
What drives these trolls to deny AGW?
So far it is not observation nor logic.
Is it some kind of attention seeking?
It is impossible that they would be paid.
It must be that they are brainwashed by some organisation.
The Tea Party ?
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (25) Apr 27, 2016
It must be that they are brainwashed by some organization.

Pity you don't have a brain to wash.
antigoracle
1.2 / 5 (22) Apr 27, 2016
today produced twice what the house uses. The rest went into my car and to run the meter backwards.

Why don't you back that up with some actual numbers?
HeloMenelo
2.6 / 5 (27) Apr 27, 2016
It must be that they are brainwashed by some organization.

Pity you don't have a brain to wash.


Yes, he doesn't have a brain, he's got a super brain, can't say the same for the combination of you and your sock's 2 braincells though... ;) o... and whats that smell.... ? monkey forgot to wash you know where today...? naughty monkey...
HeloMenelo
2.6 / 5 (27) Apr 27, 2016
today produced twice what the house uses. The rest went into my car and to run the meter backwards.

Why don't you back that up with some actual numbers?


monkey can read ? :D And here i thought he can only swing the trees...!
casualjoe
3.6 / 5 (20) Apr 27, 2016
What drives these trolls to deny AGW?
So far it is not observation nor logic.
Is it some kind of attention seeking?
It is impossible that they would be paid.
It must be that they are brainwashed by some organisation.
The Tea Party ?


He lives in Alberta, thinks he's helping people who work the filthy tar sands, obviously doesn't work himself.

Phys1
4 / 5 (12) Apr 27, 2016
It must be that they are brainwashed by some organization.

Pity you don't have a brain to wash.

Think of somebody's wife in underwear, you've gotta concentrate on your core skill.
Phys1
4.1 / 5 (14) Apr 27, 2016
What drives these trolls to deny AGW?
So far it is not observation nor logic.
Is it some kind of attention seeking?
It is impossible that they would be paid.
It must be that they are brainwashed by some organisation.
The Tea Party ?


This is what I mean, antifickle's teacher and example:
https://pbs.twimg...Hks9.jpg
antigoracle
1.2 / 5 (22) Apr 27, 2016
So far it is not observation nor logic.

Here, you can start with the 66 peer reviewed studies that tried to explain the pause. There are actual links to each one.
http://hockeyscht...-26.html
Phys1
4.3 / 5 (17) Apr 27, 2016
Well, Chucky, why don't you get an update at https://en.wikipe..._hiatus.
Phys1
4.1 / 5 (14) Apr 27, 2016
ok skip "chucky" that was unnecessary ...
antigoracle
1.3 / 5 (23) Apr 27, 2016
Well, Chucky, why don't you get an update at https://en.wikipe..._hiatus.

Have you thanked your wife yet for getting "sperm donors" for producing your "children", thus giving them a chance at having some intelligence?
Vietvet
4.2 / 5 (19) Apr 27, 2016
Well, Chucky, why don't you get an update at https://en.wikipe..._hiatus.

Have you thanked your wife yet for getting "sperm donors" for producing your "children", thus giving them a chance at having some intelligence?


"5" should be the "1''.

"
obama_socks
1.8 / 5 (24) Apr 27, 2016
It's the farmer that's never been to an art gallery saying, "I don't know anything about art, but I know what I like, and I don't like *that*!"

That's really a good analogy, abstract art and the science of AGW. It really is a very creative form of science.
- Forestgnome aka WhydeningGyre
That's correct. The "science" of AGW certainly is abstract...based on poofy magic for the most part, and its adherents are also poofy worshippers of the IPCC magic man who insist that buying "CARBON CREDITS" from ONE source will magically remove natural CO2 from the air they breathe. Delusion at its best. Commercialism at its worst.
obama_socks
1.9 / 5 (22) Apr 27, 2016
Well, Chucky, why don't you get an update at https://en.wikipe..._hiatus.

Have you thanked your wife yet for getting "sperm donors" for producing your "children", thus giving them a chance at having some intelligence?
- antiG
As Ira would say: HOOYII cher. Good one. LMAO
obama_socks
1.9 / 5 (22) Apr 27, 2016
I've been critical of previous studies that seemed to over-emphasise US-centric political dichotomies so this is welcome. It's good to know that education can overcome ignorance and we're not locked into the side effects of cognitive dissonance caused by rigid ontologies.

- leetenant
So WHERE is the propaganda toward informing the general masses/world populations that could POSSIBLY CONVINCE all these people to give up their usage of fossil fuels, i.e.,a steady propaganda machine that is undertaken by all AGWites, including the IPCC poofy magicians, via long-term full-page ads in mags and other printed media for those without internet?
Nothing yet? awwww

Then how are Zimbabweans and other poor people on the continent of Africa supposed to learn about their roles as the cause of AGW?

Most of those reading this will ignore it, of course, while continuing to declare that AGW is real WITHOUT DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

"work, consume, be silent, die"
obama_socks
2 / 5 (22) Apr 27, 2016
".I mean $20k to install a PV system that you have no guarantees will even supply half your energy needs?"
-----------------------------------

Is that what you mean? My PV system cost me $12,400 and today produced twice what the house uses. The rest went into my car and to run the meter backwards.

Gee, I didn't even need differential equations to do that, did I?
- gkam
Well, with all the money you are saving, maybe now you can afford to be charitable and give your savings to those who can't afford to do as you have done to "save the Earth", aka Saving Money. I question your type of "altruism" for the sake of the planet if you don't respond in kind to the needs of others and only keep the money you have saved, for yourself.
obama_socks
1.8 / 5 (24) Apr 27, 2016
today produced twice what the house uses. The rest went into my car and to run the meter backwards.

Why don't you back that up with some actual numbers?


monkey can read ? :D And here i thought he can only swing the trees...!
- HeloMenolo
HEY OTTO - I remember when you created your sock puppet, HeloMenelo back a few years ago. I thought it was a stupid name for a stupid sock puppet, and i was right. LMAO
gkam
2.9 / 5 (33) Apr 27, 2016
" I question your type of "altruism" for the sake of the planet if you don't respond in kind to the needs of others and only keep the money you have saved, for yourself."
-----------------------------------------
. . . says the guy who has invested nothing.

Did you not read how I produce 31 Cent/kWh power but trade it for the 10 Cents/kWh power I use, being a good guy?

The savings will be compounded because we are saving up for another EV with greater range for longer trips, in addition to this one for local use.

What did you say you were doing?
obama_socks
2 / 5 (23) Apr 27, 2016
shocking, isn't it LOL
but they make very good points... and that is also the reason there are so many anti-AGW folk out there, really


They question the reason why, for the most part, natural forces are excluded from the AGW ideation.

IMHO - for many that i know locally, it's not so much because they don't understand the science, but because the financial implications are making them fearful of the necessity of change


So be charitable and pay for their PV setups if you truly believe in AGW.

Education can only go so far with that one... tech will have to step up to the plate


Put a firecracker under a techie's ass to get things done faster.

(ignoring the obvious idiot trolls like deng, alche, antig, shooty, cantdrive, zeph and those who actually don't comprehend the science... )
- StumpRump

They are called "trolls" because they question that which is questionable? Have you never questioned that which you find questionable? Or just accept?
obama_socks
2 / 5 (24) Apr 27, 2016
" I question your type of "altruism" for the sake of the planet if you don't respond in kind to the needs of others and only keep the money you have saved, for yourself."
-----------------------------------------
. . . says the guy who has invested nothing.

Did you not read how I produce 31 Cent/kWh power but trade it for the 10 Cents/kWh power I use, being a good guy?

The savings will be compounded because we are saving up for another EV with greater range for longer trips, in addition to this one for local use.

What did you say you were doing?
- gkam
I am still on the grid, at least until PV systems, i.e., converters, inverters, batteries, etc. have vastly improved wrt highest efficiency, improved whole house energy ratios and battery energy storage. Not too fond of marine batteries and car batteries are out of the question. Need more info.
So why are you not sharing your wealth with the downtrodden who can't afford your tools?
Whydening Gyre
4.8 / 5 (26) Apr 27, 2016
ok skip "chucky" that was unnecessary ...

Thanks, Phys...:-)
Whydening Gyre
4.8 / 5 (25) Apr 27, 2016
Forestgnome aka WhydeningGyre
That's correct. The "science" of AGW certainly is abstract...based on poofy magic for the most part, and its adherents are also poofy worshippers of the IPCC magic man who insist that buying "CARBON CREDITS" from ONE source will magically remove natural CO2 from the air they breathe. Delusion at its best. Commercialism at its worst.

Nope. Called that one wrong. Carbon credit is just robbin' Peter to pay Paul...
obama_socks
1.8 / 5 (22) Apr 27, 2016
Forestgnome aka WhydeningGyre
That's correct. The "science" of AGW certainly is abstract...based on poofy magic for the most part, and its adherents are also poofy worshippers of the IPCC magic man who insist that buying "CARBON CREDITS" from ONE source will magically remove natural CO2 from the air they breathe. Delusion at its best. Commercialism at its worst.
- Forestgump
Nope. Called that one wrong. Carbon credit is just robbin' Peter to pay Paul...

...and ol' Petey with his blood-shot eyes don't like it one bit...no way, no how.
obama_socks
1.6 / 5 (21) Apr 27, 2016
@WhydG
Do you like your new name - Forestgump? Kinda reminds me of Tom Hanks wading across the reflecting pool. I thought Forestgnome was too poofy.
:)
Whydening Gyre
4.8 / 5 (26) Apr 27, 2016
@WhydG
Do you like your new name - Forestgump? Kinda reminds me of Tom Hanks wading across the reflecting pool. I thought Forestgnome was too poofy.
:)

Kinda reminds me that I've "Gumped" my way through this lifetime...:-)
obama_socks
1.9 / 5 (23) Apr 27, 2016
I wasn't trying to disparage you OR the name Gump, so I hope that you didn't take it that way. So what's wrong with your life? Isn't it the way you want to live it? If you feel that there's room for improvement, don't let anyone stop you...or you'll wind up like Otto - living in Phys.org and creating hundreds of sock puppets to fool as many people as possible. Or Stump who demands substantiation from everyone, but has little knowledge of science topics of his own.
Don't worry. Be happy. Remember that old saying?
Mike_Massen
3.3 / 5 (32) Apr 28, 2016
Be aware of "obama_socks" is just like the schizophrenic Benni, both make many unsupportable claims, both can't do basic arithmetic & both despite being here since 2011-12 haven't learned basic Physics ie Radiative Transfer (RT).

Still keenly awaiting obama_socks' "verifiable evidences" he seriously claims geological heat is far more than AGW, dialog here, take a peek & feel sorry for it & its nickname too, yuck

http://phys.org/n...ers.html

I asked obama_socks a direct simple question re 'g' as geological heat & 'r' as RT (re greenhouse gases) & challenged his claim he prove g >> r (g much greater than r) & even supplied links he could check & even offered an 'x' unknown to solve but, he Fails at arithmetic & ran away

Now its here & his intimate ally 'antigoracle' at it again, pair of uneducated low IQ plebes muddying the waters, not taking responsibility, misleading & lying to the naive & pliable, ugh nutcases !

Physics :P
Mike_Massen
3.3 / 5 (32) Apr 28, 2016
obama_socks (OS) claims
They question the reason why, for the most part, natural forces are excluded from the AGW ideation
Really, why can't OS show at least ?

It has been worked out long ago geological heat is far less than AGW contribution, I supplied you links & asked you do simple math, you refused & instead claimed you do 'algorithms' each day at work, we are *not* talking algorithm implying formula with dependencies you can do on Excel, Matlab etc - simple addition, equivalence that takes mere seconds !

OS Fails comprehension
So be charitable and pay for their PV setups if you truly believe in AGW
As I confirm, *not* about belief, about evidence, empirically based on Physics proven for >100 yrs or so
https://en.wikipe..._forcing

Why oh Why do AGW deniers like OS, antigoracle & small bunch of zealots REFUSE to address Physics ?

Why CAN'T they understand, its easy !
http://www.chem.a...1/sim/gh

Low IQ ?
Mike_Massen
3.3 / 5 (33) Apr 28, 2016
john berry_hobbes offered
It's a good example of what a number of folks have commented here recently about how their positions are based on ego identity not facts
Damn good point !

Benni is worst with antigoracle a close second followed meekly by obama_socks.

Benni even purposely misinterpreted your post to make a straw-man to further bolster his ego along with his claims of multiple degrees in Electrical/Nuclear Engineer and working as a professional Scientist/Engineer - yet still under a Nick-name !

obama_socks & Benni just Can't do simple arithmetic despite Benni's claim he recognises "Differential Equations" & obama_socks does 'algorithms', when I challenge him to show a simple equation with dead simple middle school arithmetic he just runs away, refusing to take responsibility for claims that especially so, mislead the naive & pliable, muddying the waters & obfuscating the Scientific Process, ie dumb !

Shame on obama_socks, Benni, antigoracle etc
antigoracle
1.2 / 5 (23) Apr 28, 2016
Benni is worst with antigoracle a close second....

Awww... you are breaking my heart you blabbering thief.
Phys1
4.6 / 5 (19) Apr 28, 2016
Well, Chucky, why don't you get an update at https://en.wikipe..._hiatus.

Have you thanked your wife yet for getting "sperm donors" for producing your "children", thus giving them a chance at having some intelligence?

It is amazing that PO allows such distasteful comments.
Pecunia non olet.
Phys1
4.5 / 5 (16) Apr 28, 2016
I wasn't trying to disparage you OR the name Gump, so I hope that you didn't take it that way. So what's wrong with your life? Isn't it the way you want to live it? If you feel that there's room for improvement, don't let anyone stop you...or you'll wind up like Otto - living in Phys.org and creating hundreds of sock puppets to fool as many people as possible. Or Stump who demands substantiation from everyone, but has little knowledge of science topics of his own.
Don't worry. Be happy. Remember that old saying?

Stick to the subject and produce some factual arguments, you boring troll.
Eddy Courant
1.4 / 5 (20) Apr 28, 2016
Global warming is green. Bring it!
Mike_Massen
3.1 / 5 (30) Apr 28, 2016
Eddy Courant irrationally & stupidly asserts
Global warming is green. Bring it!
Really, you want to bring these ?

- Coastal population displacement
- Infra-structure damage
- Water supply discontinuities & disruption
- Changes in crop biochemical equilibria re cyanogens (cyanide)
- Loss of productive farmland

To try and get up to speed even a little, please get a base understanding of Radiative Transfer such as here which quantifies the extra heat:-
https://en.wikipe..._forcing

Unfortunately just barking banal oneliners with nothing mature or even sane to offer either education or rationalisation to ameliorate is not helpful one bit, consider societal consequences for the millions dis-advantaged...

shakes head :/
antigoracle
1.2 / 5 (19) Apr 28, 2016
Really, you want to bring these ?

- Coastal population displacement
- Infra-structure damage
- Water supply discontinuities & disruption
- Changes in crop biochemical equilibria re cyanogens (cyanide)
- Loss of productive farmland

Mutterin' Mike, science charlatan, blabbers.
Mutterin' Mike, depending on which sect of the AGW Cult you reference, man made globull warming began somewhere during the industrial revolution or after 1950. So, please enlighten us Mutterin' Mike, of a single example of what you claim above, that's been conclusively attributed to AGW?
Mike_Massen
3 / 5 (28) Apr 29, 2016
antigoracle puerile & yet again failing in logic claims
Mutterin' Mike, science charlatan, blabbers
Really ?

How so, what evidence, where, relation to what study, my thesis, papers, assignments, exam results, distinctions, academic recognition, which aspect, be smarter for a change, answer my questions ?

Pretty telling isnt it you ask & challenge ME when you bark & fail ALL challenges, too rich !

antigoracle yet again "trying it on"
... of a single example of what you claim above, that's been conclusively attributed to AGW?
Its Very clear you depend on a facile idea of "conclusive" AND we know full well your simplistic reputation precedes, you favour twisting any which way you can to try to worm an argumentative stance :/

So you lift your game, avoid the nastiness you're eager to spout tell us how you interpret radiative transfer & tell us just why, as example, Mars daytime temps in the shade can exceed 20 C despite its atmosphere 1/100th of Earth ?
viko_mx
1.2 / 5 (20) Apr 29, 2016
The biblical prohesies for the last times recorded in the last book of the new testament - the "Revalation" book, draws the picture of dramatic climat change. So dramatic than no one who a moment before that did not aquire an incorruptible body, will be able to survive. I do not hear the climate "experts" that trumpeting as urban criers in mass media loudy and repeatedly, to speak on this issue. Looking at the frequency of earthquakes in in different parts of the world I'm sure that this events is not so far away.
BongThePuffin
Apr 29, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Mike_Massen
3.2 / 5 (33) Apr 29, 2016
viko_mx claims
... prohesies for the last times recorded in the last book of the new testament - the "Revalation" book, draws the picture of dramatic climat change
Proselytizing invalid, this is Science so prove it ?

viko_mx can't see ALL claimed gods are the same, they punish & are bad impotent communicators, ugh

Only communication of a god is a (human) book, their 'scriptures" indistinguishable from stories (of primitive times) where such claims,carried off poetically exploiting our sense of awe, gained

1. Status, Authority & Power primarily over the emotionally feeble & intellectually meek :-(

Odd jesus' dad didnt teach him writing, why yah think ?

If jesus was a god he knows immortality, "dying for us" is therefore written to emotionally manipulate, see 1

viko_mx
.. earthquakes in in different parts of the world I'm sure that this events is not so far away
Asteroids & Krakatoa 1883, not worth a mention ?

Easy to guess a long term 'prophesy'
viko_mx
1.2 / 5 (19) Apr 29, 2016
Long ago clever, honest and observant people have shown and proved the existence of a God. This is not difficult, because God has left His signature all around us. This is a problem for foolish and proud who live in lawlessness and vanity, and want everyone to become tolerant to their iniquity and their accomplices because of selfishness and desire for spiritual comfort . They are blind to the obvious, walk in darkness and do not know where they are going.

It will be usefull to be more observant!
antigoracle
1.2 / 5 (19) Apr 29, 2016
Eddy Courant irrationally & stupidly asserts
Global warming is green. Bring it!
Really, you want to bring these ?

- Coastal population displacement
- Infra-structure damage
- Water supply discontinuities & disruption
- Changes in crop biochemical equilibria re cyanogens (cyanide)
- Loss of productive farmland

Mutterin' Mike, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar and thief, makes his usual irrational and stupid rant, while ignorantly accusing others of the same.
Mutterin' Mike, here is evidence of Eddy's statement. https://www.googl...fe_rd=cr

Now Mutterin' Mike, please give us evidence to support yours.
Noumenon
1.4 / 5 (29) Apr 29, 2016
What an idiot. Do you even read koine Greek? How is it that I look at the rag purely as lit, but have bothered to learn Greek so I can read it and other texts, but you think it's the blueprint for your life and only use a translation? Lazy? Stupid? How about both.



You haven't put him on Ignore yet, and what is worse, you even voluntarily read his posts (!),.... what kind of idiot does that make you? Answer: one who debates religionists.

Mike_Massen
2.9 / 5 (29) Apr 29, 2016
viko_mx claims
Long ago clever, honest and observant people have shown and proved the existence of a God
Which one Zeus, Ball ?

The one which communicates badly or the one which communicates really well, so please tell us all eager to communicate with the latter - whats its best & most up to date method ?

viko_mx says
This is not difficult, because God has left His signature all around us
Ah you mean vague interpretation or something unequivocal, ie Science, ie Quantum Mechanics ?

viko_mx says
...selfishness and desire for spiritual comfort.
Hoist by your own petard !

viko_mx says
They are blind to the obvious, walk in darkness and do not know where they are going
Like Nature which only survives via "Eat and be Eaten and all the time", don't need a human oriented god to set biochemistry in motion via survival strategies ?

viko_mx says
It will be usefull to be more observant!
Great then learn Biochemistry within nature's imperative.

Mike_Massen
2.9 / 5 (29) Apr 29, 2016
antigoracle wasting time again
Mutterin' Mike, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar and thief, makes his usual irrational and stupid rant, while ignorantly accusing others of the same
Ah you mean you are not sufficiently well educated to understand the key issue of definitions and how Science is based on Physics & Math regarding rational appreciation of evidence and the "Balance of Probabilities"

Please explain why you ignore or sidestep Radiative Transfer as it crucial to your question ?

antigoracle says
here is evidence of Eddy's statement. https://www.googl...fe_rd=cr
Desnt change issues I raised, why can't you comprehend, from food problems to rising sea levels ?

Or are you so facile to expect anything green is immediately edible, heard of poisons ?

antigoracle
..please give us evidence to support your
Sure, np, asked you many questions long before, attend to them first :P
chileastro
3.1 / 5 (33) Apr 29, 2016
viko_mx

1 /5 (2) 3 hours ago
Long ago clever, honest and observant people have shown and proved the existence of a God. This is not difficult, because God has left His signature all around us.


Damn, has he ever! http://erotic-nat...ocks.jpg

lol The same clever, honest and observant people that practiced stoning, divination, numerology and wife/servant brutality.

I wish these "you just don't understand the old thyme values" folks would stop being such hypocrites and LIVE with their technologies and conceptions of medicine, etc. Don't be running to the fruit of data and methodologies you claim to find abhorrent whenever it's convenient. At least the Amish deserve a smidgin of respect that way.

The rest of you are the kind of loudmouthed hypocrites disparaged in Matt 6:5 (listening Tim Tebow?).
jim_xanara
2.5 / 5 (27) Apr 29, 2016
lol I'll give you 10:1 on "not".
antigoracle
1.2 / 5 (20) Apr 29, 2016
Mutterin' Mike, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar and thief, blabbers again. Just as Mutterin' Mike made excuses to condone his thieving, he tries again with his lies.

Really, you want to bring these ?

- Coastal population displacement
- Infra-structure damage
- Water supply discontinuities & disruption
- Changes in crop biochemical equilibria re cyanogens (cyanide)
- Loss of productive farmland

Mutterin' Mike you stated the above as if they were fact. Now prove it.
Mike_Massen
2.9 / 5 (28) Apr 29, 2016
antigoracle fails in comprehension yet again
Mutterin' Mike, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast, liar and thief, blabbers again. Just as Mutterin' Mike made excuses to condone his thieving, he tries again with his lies
Idle claims don't cut it, if you imagine otherwise then prove it, or ask Uncle Ira to show the link years ago when full refunds were offered on the web site which, he decided to ignore to do same as you, put people down, you're also a complete gutless nutcase !

Why are you still anonymous and learned nothing re radiative transfer all these years ?

antigoracle fails again at comprehension
Mutterin' Mike you stated the above as if they were fact. Now prove it.
So you didnt notice the question mark for Eddy ?

Are you unwell grasping at straws, forgetting all that you've been shown these last 2 years re plants, cyanide, water supplies etc.

As I said earlier, answer my (older) questions first or be smarter or go away, learn Physics !
Whydening Gyre
4.8 / 5 (23) Apr 29, 2016
I wasn't trying to disparage you OR the name Gump, so I hope that you didn't take it that way.

Didn't. Was my way of saying I've found myself in both amazing and "not-so" amazing circumstances.
So what's wrong with your life?

Not a thing.
Isn't it the way you want to live it?

Exactly the way I want to. just not as much money as I thought should be there...:-)
If you feel that there's room for improvement, don't let anyone stop you...

I don't.
Don't worry. Be happy. Remember that old saying?

Yeah, but... what if worrying MAKES me happy...?
viko_mx
1.4 / 5 (21) Apr 29, 2016

When I talk about God I always have in mind the God of Abraham - the Creator of the Heaven, the Earth, and first people on the Earth - Adam and Eva, His Son, who alone without disadvantige pay the price for man's sins and give to the way for the salvation of people, and the Holy Spirit - the holy trinity. I have no guilt about your voluntary ignorance. This is your personal problem and choice.

"Like Nature which only survives via "Eat and be Eaten and all the time", don't need a human oriented god to set biochemistry in motion via survival strategies ?"

This criminal ideology leads to a gradual destruction of all species (from two or more left one) and to self destruction of life in the final stage. The Creator knows very well this negative effect and are doing things by quite different way. He solve fairly this problem by destroying the destroyers of life, to be passible to triumph the love and truth, and to restore the harmony between all created beings in the universe.
viko_mx
1.4 / 5 (19) Apr 29, 2016
There is no reason the universe to exist if it does not exist intelligent beings who to live in it?
Whydening Gyre
4.8 / 5 (25) Apr 29, 2016
There is no reason the universe to exist if it does not exist intelligent beings who to live in it?

Sorry, Viko. But "intelligent" creatures exist as a by-product, not a goal.
Not very humble of you to think otherwise...
howhot2
5 / 5 (13) Apr 30, 2016
YOW! If you can't say something nice @antigoracle, say something surrealistic is what I say. Quit being so demographically correct and maybe they will like you.

@viko_mx; I think this applies to your puzzle; "Glazed donuts are the building blocks of the universe." Ummm. Glazed donuts.

Mike_Massen
3 / 5 (27) Apr 30, 2016
viko_mx Fails to answer direct logic questions
When I talk about God I always have in mind the God of Abraham - the Creator of the Heaven, the Earth, and first people on the Earth - Adam and Eva, His Son, who alone without disadvantige pay the price for man's sins and give to the way for the salvation of people..
What salvation, religions compete, heard of Islam - after abraham, heard of mormons - after Islam, heard of dianetics - after mormons ?

Its Obvious all gods mere claim, regardless how poetic writings as each & every god bar none can't communicate better than humans, couldn't cross oceans ?

Tell us viko_mx why jesus dad failed to teach him to write or teach writing or build vehicles/ships & spread the word ?

viko_mx claims trinity, ie the devils 3-pronged fork, tell us logic about jesus knowing he is immortal so to him as a god, dying means nothing ?

Why do kids die of cancer ?

viko_mx all claims of gods get; Status, Authority & Power over meek
viko_mx
1.2 / 5 (17) Apr 30, 2016
?Whydening Gyre

Byproducts are only your delusions that very high complex physical systems can emerge by chance and only thanks to natural processes in nature that obey precisely tuned physcal laws, constants and fundamental forces. I did not expect that you are so religious.
Obviosly you do not know natural law for the information and prefer to believe in fairy tales and to live in one fictional world without the Creator. Such attitude is inadequate to relatlity and can not be heplful to you. Аnyway you can not escape from God's moral law which is written in the hearts of men. For this reason, those who chose to do lawlessness and deliberately ignore the authority of their Creator because of their pride and vanity, will never find inner peace and will always be in conflict with himselfs. Which for someone narcissistic sado masochist can be acceptible.
jim_xanara
3 / 5 (26) Apr 30, 2016
viko_mx 1.7 /5 (6) 13 hours ago
There is no reason the universe to exist if it does not exist intelligent beings who to live in it?


Work on your pitiful English instead of trolling PO. Trolling is rude enough; at least don't be linguistically insulting as well. It's my third language and I wouldn't open my mouth until mastering the Queen's grammar. It's called basic respect. Why is it that "people of faith" generally have so much less? Easy. Same reason you have faith. Same reason your English sucks. You're stupid.

Can religious idiots ever get their facts straight? They use all the wrong principles at the wrong time. Climate: Man is so insignificant that he can't affect it. Deny the facts. The universe: It's so perfect for man that it must be all about him! BACKWARDS! Yeah, man's insignificant; use it in the second argument, not the first, SFB.

Seen on a church: "If your faith is big enough facts don't count". Here they do, so bugger off!
chileastro
3.1 / 5 (30) Apr 30, 2016
Douglas Adams refuted that stupid argument years ago.
"This is rather as if you imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!' This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for."
viko_mx
1.2 / 5 (18) Apr 30, 2016
"Seen on a church: "If your faith is big enough facts don't count". Here they do, so bugger off!"

This applies in full force for the popular evolutionary mythologies which are not based on scientific principles and can not rely scientific facts. These are the sacred cows of the renewed babylonian order and rely on wishful thinking and affinity to lawlessness. Sad but fact.
The leader of most churches today have transgressed against God's word. They do not preach the word of God but pagan mythologies and practice human traditions. They and part of the their congregation wants to be politicaly correct, one big family with others and to be united in deception as the Creator warns us.
LifeBasedLogic
Apr 30, 2016
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Mike_Massen
2.8 / 5 (24) Apr 30, 2016
LifeBasedLogic says
Take a knee before our Master; Truth and Life that we might witness your love
Beg Pardon, the claimed love of a god that makes children die of cancer ?

Are you sane at any reference level or merely suffering from vague & disparate emotional hypnosis re Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP), do you try this on people in your business, are they patients or victims and what is your success rate - any testimonials please ?

Which "Master", why are you always so very vague ?

Any actual evidence ?

What do you achieve by such mindless robotic inanities, anything even a wee bit practical ?

Please enlighten us mere Engineers, Physicists & Scientists to your woolly ways of the oh so tenuous febrile psyche ?

:-)
Phys1
4.4 / 5 (13) Apr 30, 2016
@LameLogic
No religion here please. Go bore people in your village.
philstacy9
1.3 / 5 (15) Apr 30, 2016
Climate alarmism is a fear mongering tinfoil hat doomsday creation of political propaganda that the cancer of science.

http://www.specta...larmism/
viko_mx
1 / 5 (13) Apr 30, 2016
?Mike_Massen

Why you blame the Creator for the mistakes or lawlessness that parents do? The children of disobedience. Are they supposed to take responsibility for their actions or inactions or not?

The second God's commandment states

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Do you understand its meaning?
Captain Stumpy
4.7 / 5 (13) Apr 30, 2016
Why you blame the Creator for the mistakes or lawlessness that parents do?
LOL
you mean like how Job lost his family and everything for being a lawless hater of your "deity of love" ????

so what you're saying is that children get cancer because their parents are all lawless heathens like Job????

ROTFLMFAO

if you're gonna spout your religion on a science site, you could at least take a little time to familiarize yourself with the myths in it... especially the bigger ones that are still talked about
Do you understand its meaning?
so you?
apparently not, because just by coming to this site you are violating it's mandate

do you understand that working on the Sabbath is punishable by stoning?
so why you posting here today?
or did you forget that proselytizing or "teaching" about how to be godly per your "cult" is a violation of your own bible?
JER 31:27 - 37

epic fail for you and religion both
viko_mx
1 / 5 (13) Apr 30, 2016
Do not you know that the Creator will test the faith of all believers in difficult life situations to separate the wheat from the chaff. In the kingdom of God will not enter anything unclean.

You have not told us the second part of job story. Why?
Captain Stumpy
4.1 / 5 (14) Apr 30, 2016
You have not told us the second part of job story. Why?
because it is not relevant to the point you made
you stated
Why you blame the Creator for the mistakes or lawlessness that parents do?
so tell us all, what was the mistakes that Job's first family did?
was it being married to Job, whom your deity of love allowed to be attacked by your deity of hate?
or was it just "because" of job's screwups? OOPS wait... Job was a devout man, which was the reason for the whole exercise between your deities... so that makes it even worse, especially from your "deity of love"

that was the point i made, and it is horrible of you to consider the cancer patient being punished by your own deity because of parental mistakes when your own bible says that is not how it works in the second covenant...

but of course, you don't actually read or study your bible, which is why you routinely violate it's commandments

not going to reply if you aren't going to at least read the thing
gkam
3.1 / 5 (30) Apr 30, 2016
The topic is climate, not superstition.

Thanks.
Phys1
4.6 / 5 (11) Apr 30, 2016
@viko_mx
"the Creator will test the faith of all believers in difficult life situations to separate the wheat from the chaff"
Why? Is he hungry and planning to bake a loaf?
Whydening Gyre
4.8 / 5 (17) Apr 30, 2016
@lbl
That's a lie. People are not their actions.

And how do YOU determine what a person is?

Perhaps you may want to consider reading something looking for the truth because you have chosen to value the most important truth in life. viko_mx is most important and your words disagree with the most important truth stating otherwise.

Take a knee before our Master; Truth and Life that we might witness your love.

Wow... you're an even lousier advocate for a belief than Viko..
Take a knee, yerself...
To a Universe way bigger than yourself...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (16) Apr 30, 2016
The leader of most churches today have transgressed against God's word. They do not preach the word of God but pagan mythologies and practice human traditions. They and part of the their congregation wants to be politicaly correct, one big family with others and to be united in deception as the Creator warns us.

Did it ever occur to you that your god is the one doing the deceiving...?

Shootist
1.2 / 5 (17) Apr 30, 2016
More troll bait.

The only things that oxygen thieves like antirational, canthink, obamasucker and zephir's many puppets care about is 1). jerking off, 2). someone towing their trailer, and 3) eating. As climate change doesn't directly and immediately have an effect on any of those, it doesn't exist in their "minds".

And those that do care? Have a brain. Duh. What a study. People with a life care about what's happening to the environment and people without one don't. I think we knew that.


The climate changes. There isn't much more to say.
viko_mx
1 / 5 (14) Apr 30, 2016
?Phys1
How much innocent blood has been spilled on the planet Eart because of lawlessness and vain desires of the arrogant and proud tyrants and gentiles? Is it difficult to understand the fact that lawlessness is incompatible with life in long term?
In the Kingdom of God there will be no lawlessness in order life to abide in eternity. The life make sence only when is eternal. But to live forever are entitled only the saints who live according to the principles of life and harmony - love, truth and free will.
In the judgement day the the Cretor will destroy the unrepentant sinners as a manifestation of His mercy, in order to prevent they to torture each other in the hell that they create on Earth by their iniquity. They live according to the principles of chaos - the pride, deception and selfishness. The mindset and behavior of such kind of people is self destructive.
greenonions
4.6 / 5 (10) Apr 30, 2016
The climate changes. There isn't much more to say
There is so much more to say. Pulling your head out of your ass - and having a look around would be good for you. I won't hold my breath. Watch a good movie, or read a good book. Maybe start with Contact. Great line at the end of that movie - when the kid asks the question about other life in the universe - and Foster says "What do you think?" - and the kid says "I don't know" - and Foster says - "That's a really great answer". Sorry - I have been enjoying some home brew tonight...
greenonions
4.6 / 5 (10) Apr 30, 2016
Hey Viko - where did the Devil come from? Can you quote from your all holy book of life - that tells us all things - about where the Devil came from? It seems such a strange one that. God is the supreme being. The all powerful creator of everything. And one of his underlings decides to challenge him to a fight. Kind of a predictable outcome right? Maybe the Devil is like really really stupid - but does that mean that God creates really really stupid beings. Mmmmmm?
viko_mx
1 / 5 (16) Apr 30, 2016
Satan is created angel with free will. He is victim of his self pride and vanity. He chose the to live by principles of chaos. The Creator give him time for repentance. By him will expose before the whole universe the tragic consequences of the lawlessness and will separate the wheat from the chaff at the same time.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (17) Apr 30, 2016
Maybe start with Contact. Great line at the end of that movie - when the kid asks the question about other life in the universe - and Foster says "What do you think?" - and the kid says "I don't know" - and Foster says - "That's a really great answer".

Great movie.
Sorry - I have been enjoying some home brew tonight...

Nothing to be sorry about. were you watching Contact at the same time?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (18) Apr 30, 2016
Satan is created angel with free will. He is victim of his self pride and vanity. He chose the to live by principles of chaos. The Creator give him time for repentance. By him will expose before the whole universe the tragic consequences of the lawlessness and will separate the wheat from the chaff at the same time.

I don't get it. A god creates beings with certain abilities (Certainly, wanting them to use and flourish with their usage of those abilities). And then says "you will suffer and die if you use them."?
That's not a "lawless" act?
What kind of stupid, sadistic game is that?
Captain Stumpy
4.4 / 5 (14) May 01, 2016
i don't know if anyone actually got to read the study linked above... here it is: http://www.nature...nica.com

OR you can click the DOI link at the end of this article:
http://arstechnic...concern/

you can't actually save it, but you can read it
well... i should re-word that: you can "view" it

.

.

.
He chose the to live by principles of chaos
@viko
chaos and evil are not the same thing

again, i would suggest you actually read your holy comic before commenting about it and your "interpretations" of your religion because you've demonstrated no knowledge at all
greenonions
4.6 / 5 (11) May 01, 2016
Satan is created angel with free will.
Where does it say that in your holy book? If I was writing a holy book - that was a guide book for life, the universe, and everything (Douglas Adams I think), I would not leave so much information out. But you did add a little information for us - telling us that Angels were created (don't think it says that in the holy book - but what ever) with free will. So if God has all these friends up where ever he lives - who are intelligent beings, with free will - now comes the really big question. Why did God create humans, knowing that they would exercise their free will - and most of them then go to hell to suffer for eternity? Sounds pretty crazy to me - considering God already has plenty of play mates (angels) to entertain him. Perhaps God is crazy.
greenonions
4.6 / 5 (11) May 01, 2016
Whyden
Nothing to be sorry about. were you watching Contact at the same time?
I wish. We watched a lame movie "If i stay". It was OK - but pretty predictable, and formulaic. It can be hard to find a good movie - too much boilerplate.
viko_mx
1 / 5 (15) May 01, 2016
?Whydening Gyre

"What kind of stupid, sadistic game is that?"

No. Just test for suitability to life in eternity.

In any aspect and case, our Creator is incommensurable more inteligent and fair than any person on this planet. Your behavior is immature.You reject the life and truth that requires cardinal changes in your life because of childish stubborn and pointless pride. What according to you the Creator should do with Satan, who has old time murderer of people and cause ruinous deception to billions of people? To award him with a medal? What shoul do the Creator with anrepented sinners after the end of probation period?
viko_mx
1 / 5 (16) May 01, 2016
Can there be order without the laws and life without the order that support it?
What is the point of laws which will be violated without consequence?
viko_mx
1 / 5 (16) May 01, 2016
Chaos and evil are two names of the same thing. Both are incompatible with the life.
Evil is directed agains the love, the thrut and free will - the foundation of life.
ogg_ogg
1 / 5 (14) May 01, 2016
And do "we" care about the up-coming phase transition in the Earth's Core? How about the loss of our atmosphere? Not to mention the cessation of plate tectonics or the red giant phase of our sun. In Freakonomics the point was made that the current cost of CO2 reduction far outstripped the extrapolated future cost of it, so it wasn't rational to "act now". Ignoring the rants from either side of the issue posted here, I found nothing here of substance. It's expected that Africa will be the most populous continent by 2030, I don't have to wonder whether they will prefer food to CO2 reduction. Expending scarce resources NOW on anything which it is irrational to invest in, hardly is the best way forward. In those areas where CO2 reduction currently makes economic sense, I'm all for it. Otherwise not.
Phys1
4.7 / 5 (15) May 01, 2016
Satan is created angel with free will.
.... Perhaps God is crazy.

Who keeps a snake, possibly a titanoboa or a black mamba, in his garden together with two naked defenseless people?
https://en.wikipe...itanoboa
Phys1
4.8 / 5 (17) May 01, 2016
And then blames the woman for getting scared ?
Mike_Massen
3.2 / 5 (27) May 01, 2016
viko_mx claims
In any aspect and case, our Creator is incommensurable more inteligent and fair than any person on this planet
Really ?

So its fair to ensure an innocent child get cancer even if both parents are christians ?

And is it fair to punish ALL of creation including animals for a young womans choice ?

ie. Is it sane to punish your grandchildren if your daughter makes a boo boo ?

How did the claimed god educate adam or eve in Guile ?

How can anyone exercise "free will" without full and complete education ?

Are you claiming god didn't know in advance satan would lie to an innocent girl ?

If so then do you also claim god didn't know eve would trust another creation of god ?

Why are all gods very bad communicators and all of them have trouble crossing oceans ?
Noumenon
1.9 / 5 (27) May 01, 2016
@MM,.... logic is the opium of the devil, while perpetual ignorance is the bliss of salvation. All you need to know is that god is megaginormagantuan, ....and shiny, probably.

viko_mx
1 / 5 (17) May 01, 2016
"So its fair to ensure an innocent child get cancer even if both parents are christians ?"

Cancer can leed only to the first temporary death - the unconscious sleep. The lawlessness leeds to the second final eternal death as result of borken connection between the man and the source of life - the Creator.

"And is it fair to punish ALL of creation including animals for a young womans choice ?"

Yes because God created the mеn to rule over the all other creatures on the Earth but the first man and waman broke the God's law regardless explicite warning for the consequence of their wrong choice to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. They disregarded the authority of their Creator and supporter from Who as all other people on this planet depend 100%, to follow the father of lies. But If people do not trust to our Creator they will not respect His authority and law.
viko_mx
1 / 5 (17) May 01, 2016
"Are you claiming god didn't know in advance satan would lie to an innocent girl ?"

Yes, God did know at advance what will do the satan and the first people. Therefore His plan for salvation was prepared before the creation of the Earth and the first man and woman.
Our Creator is wanderfull and despite His prior knowledge give chance to every created being in the universe for complete and eternal life according to the principles of life.

viko_mx
1 / 5 (16) May 01, 2016
If one created being does not value the life he is not adapted for eternal life.
Phys1
4.7 / 5 (14) May 01, 2016
Viko_mx believes in a non-existent supernatural terrorist that holds him hostage.
His love and affection is the Stockholm syndrome.
How pathetic.
viko_mx
1 / 5 (16) May 01, 2016
How according to you God should act against those who deliberately violate the His laws, after gave them long period of time for rethinking, repentance and change for the better and they refuse His plan for salvation?
Your accusations are baseless and immature, but let's see how you will solve the problem with the lawlessness in the universe, if all created beings expect your guaranteed justice and categorical actions?
Captain Stumpy
4.8 / 5 (20) May 01, 2016
@v - still haven't read your own holy comic book?
our Creator is incommensurable more inteligent and fair than any person on this planet
yeah right... tell that to Job's first family

consider your deities words:
enslave your neighbors who worship other gods LEV 25:44-46
you should kill people who work on the sabbath (SAT, OR SUN?) NUM 15:32-36
Kill children who curse their parents EXO 21:15,17
selling your daughter is ok-here are the ways to do it EXO 21:7-8
Rape is a crime against the husband. women who don't shout loud enoughwhen being raped should be killed, regardless of the reason for the rape DEUT 22:23-24
Women are not equivalent to men 1TIM 2:12
Jesus didn't bring peace, but came to pit family against each other LUK 12:51-53
Jesus didn't bring peace MAT 10:34

1- that aint "fair"
2- it sure as heck aint "love and compassion"
3- the entire OT is about narcissistic worship and hating on all other people - then killing them
and that is "fair" to you?
Captain Stumpy
4.6 / 5 (21) May 01, 2016
@v cont'd
If one created being does not value the life he is not adapted for eternal life
then by your own definition you do not value life, therefore you are not adapted for eternal life
1- you have demonstrated a need to devalue life by means of utilising your religion for the sake of intentional segregation as well as judgement (that which you're not supposed to do per your own holy comic)

2- you kill regularly, be it insect or otherwise (like plant/animal) therefore you are destined for hell, per your own holy comic as well as definition above

3- your "shiny megaginormagantuan" [thanks for that Nou!] is a narcissistic megalomaniac who requires devotion and demonstrates bipolar tendencies in said holy comic

but you say this is the way to "salvation"?

you can't adhere to your own laws, but you admonish others about not adhering to them?

hypocrite

stop proselytizing on a science site, hypocrite
Phys1
4.7 / 5 (15) May 01, 2016
@viko_mx
"How according to you God should act against those who deliberately violate the His laws,"
Ask any serial killer.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (21) May 01, 2016
Yes, God did know at advance what will do the satan and the first people. Therefore His plan for salvation was prepared before the creation of the Earth and the first man and woman.

If that isn't the most glaring example of the practice of guile, I have no idea what is. Your description of a god's intentions sound just like a con man's sting....
Not to mention, really throws the whole "free will" thing in the trash...
You do realize, Viko, that "chaos" (pattern disruption) is how life begins and evolves, right?
chileastro
3 / 5 (22) May 02, 2016

viko_mx 1 /5 (10) May 01, 2016
Chaos and evil are two names of the same thing.


You contradict Genesis.
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.


As it does itself. But "formless and empty" is our definition of chaos, so, your exegesis equates evil and the spirit of God. Finally something we agree on- if your sky daddy existed. It's just stupid anyway. How can there be an earth, and how can it be "formless and empty". If it was formless it wouldn't be the earth. And why is that the navel of the universe? It's just naive crap. Buddhism, on the other hand, promotes a mysticism that makes more sense the more science, and QM in particular, that you understand. I suppose that explains why you don't understand quantum mechanics.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (22) May 02, 2016
How according to you God should act against those who deliberately violate the His laws, after gave them long period of time for rethinking, repentance and change for the better and they refuse His plan for salvation?
Your accusations are baseless and immature, but let's see how you will solve the problem with the lawlessness in the universe, if all created beings expect your guaranteed justice and categorical actions?

Personally, I'd sit back, sip some good whiskey - and see how they worked it out, themselves...
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (21) May 02, 2016
viko_mx 1 /5 (10) May 01, 2016
Chaos and evil are two names of the same thing.

Only evil cuz you can't figure out the patterns create by the chaotic activity....
Phys1
4.8 / 5 (16) May 02, 2016
Viko_mx, do you have a reference to some peer reviewed delusional writings?
Or are you are making up your own private delusion as you go?
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (22) May 02, 2016
Can there be order without the laws and life without the order that support it?
What is the point of laws which will be violated without consequence?

Ask a lawyer...
Phys1
4.7 / 5 (15) May 03, 2016
How according to you God should act against those who deliberately violate the His laws, after gave them long period of time for rethinking, repentance and change for the better and they refuse His plan for salvation?
Your accusations are baseless and immature, but let's see how you will solve the problem with the lawlessness in the universe, if all created beings expect your guaranteed justice and categorical actions?

Personally, I'd sit back, sip some good whiskey - and see how they worked it out, themselves...

Jesus, take the wheel ?
https://www.youtu...BPm2KRaU at 2:39 !
Phys1
4.7 / 5 (15) May 03, 2016
@viko_mx
You are too scared to think, on account of your delusional Stockholm syndrome.
Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (21) May 03, 2016
Personally, I'd sit back, sip some good whiskey - and see how they worked it out, themselves...

Jesus, take the wheel ?
https://www.youtu...BPm2KRaU at 2:39 !

I don't drink and drive. (Might spill my drink...)
HeloMenelo
3.1 / 5 (15) May 07, 2016
today produced twice what the house uses. The rest went into my car and to run the meter backwards.

Why don't you back that up with some actual numbers?


monkey can read ? :D And here i thought he can only swing the trees...!
- HeloMenolo
HEY OTTO - I remember when you created your sock puppet, HeloMenelo back a few years ago. I thought it was a stupid name for a stupid sock puppet, and i was right. LMAO

nope you're always wrong, unfortunately for you , proven by each and everyone here on physorg, btw nice rating 21 people voted and the outcome is as always ebarrasing eh...? :D
MalleusConspiratori
1.4 / 5 (10) May 19, 2016
antigoracle 1.2 /5 (18) Apr 29, 2016

Mutterin' Mike, science charlatan, Bonobo "monkey" enthusiast...


No, ignoracle, I don't think he likes you, let alone is someone you could call an enthusiast. Doesn't sound like muttering to me. Perhaps you should clean your ears out? Have an ice pick handy?
MalleusConspiratori
1.4 / 5 (10) May 19, 2016
Mike_Massen 3.4 /5 (18) Apr 30, 2016
LifeBasedLogic says

Take a knee before our Master; Truth and Life that we might witness your love


Which "Master", why are you always so very vague ?


Well, preCISEly! Are you talking about Anthony Ainley? Richard Delgado? John Simm? Please try to be more specific.

Now, if you're talking about Yeshua ben David, I'll GIVE that twerp a knee. What kind of pussy God, that's "fully human and divine" doesn't even have a Y chromosome? So, I guess you'd make him use the lady's room? Oh, don't worry. He didn't have a beard. That was just added in the 4th century to make him look like Zeus. I wish they'd added wings and a bow and made him look more like Cupid.

Please sign in to add a comment. Registration is free, and takes less than a minute. Read more

Click here to reset your password.
Sign in to get notified via email when new comments are made.