Local destabilization can cause complete loss of West Antarctica's ice masses

Antarctica
Image: National Science Foundation

The huge West Antarctic ice sheet would collapse completely if the comparatively small Amundsen Basin is destabilized, scientists of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research find. A full discharge of ice into the ocean is calculated to yield about 3 meters of sea-level rise. Recent studies indicated that this area of the ice continent is already losing stability, making it the first element in the climate system about to tip. The new publication for the first time shows the inevitable consequence of such an event. According to the computer simulations, a few decades of ocean warming can start an ice loss that continues for centuries or even millennia.

"What we call the eternal ice of Antarctica unfortunately turns out not to be eternal at all," says Johannes Feldmann, lead author of the study to be published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS). "Once the ice masses get perturbed, which is what is happening today, they respond in a non-linear way: there is a relatively sudden breakdown of stability after a long period during which little change can be found."

"A few decades can kickstart change going on for millennia"

This is what is expressed by the concept of tipping elements: pushed too far, they fall over into another state. This also applies to, for instance, the Amazon rainforest, and the Indian Monsoon system. In parts of Antarctica, the natural ice-flow into the ocean would substantially and permanently increase.

Ocean warming is slowly melting the ice shelves from beneath, those floating extensions of the land ice. Large portions of the West Antarctic ice sheet are grounded on bedrock below sea level and generally slope downwards in an inland direction. Ice loss can make the grounding line retreat, thereby exposing more and more ice to the slightly warmer ocean water - further accelerating the retreat.

"In our simulations 60 years of melting at the presently observed rate are enough to launch a process which is then unstoppable and goes on for thousands of years," Feldmann says. This would eventually yield at least 3 meters of . "This certainly is a long process," Feldmann says. "But it's likely starting right now."

The greenhouse-gas emission factor

"So far we lack sufficient evidence to tell whether or not the Amundsen ice destabilization is due to greenhouse gases and the resulting global warming," says co-author and IPCC sea-level expert Anders Levermann, also from the Potsdam Institute. "But it is clear that further greenhouse-gas emission will heighten the risk of an collapse in West Antarctica and more unstoppable sea-level rise."

"That is not something we have to be afraid of, because it develops slowly," concludes Levermann. "But it might be something to worry about, because it would destroy our future heritage by consuming the cities we live in - unless we reduce carbon emission quickly."


Explore further

The warmer the higher: Sea-level rise from Filchner-Ronne ice in Antarctica

More information: Collapse of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet after local destabilization of the Amundsen Basin, PNAS, www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.1512482112
Citation: Local destabilization can cause complete loss of West Antarctica's ice masses (2015, November 2) retrieved 23 September 2019 from https://phys.org/news/2015-11-local-destabilization-loss-west-antarctica.html
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Nov 02, 2015
".. it would destroy our future heritage by consuming the cities we live in - unless we reduce carbon emission quickly."
No amount of human intervention will stop the inevitable pattern of geological evolution. I'm certain that carbon emissions were not responsible for the rise in sea levels 10,000 years ago which submerged the Yonaguni Pyramid of southern Japan http://www.yonaguni.ws/ and which also very likely flooded a newly discovered ancient Indian city in the Gulf of Cambay http://news.bbc.c...8109.stm


Nov 02, 2015
".. it would destroy our future heritage by consuming the cities we live in - unless we reduce carbon emission quickly."
No amount of human intervention will stop the inevitable pattern of geological evolution. I'm certain that carbon emissions were not responsible for the rise in sea levels 10,000 years ago which submerged the Yonaguni Pyramid of southern Japan http://www.yonaguni.ws/



No, it most certainly wasn't but we like to pretend we have control over the cycles of nature so Science has blamed humanity for all the changes we have observed in recent decades. It's oddly comforting to believe that if the change is our fault then we must also have the power to fix it! An unfortunate and predictable pattern in human behavior. We observe something, pretend the little we see is reflective of a trend/pattern that didn't exist before, then play out the worst case scenario and present it as fact, hoping fear motivates the public to blind action.

Nov 03, 2015
jeffensley Fails claiming to be "Environment Scientist" (ES) but made another strawman f..kup
... but we like to pretend we have control over the cycles of nature so Science has blamed humanity for all the changes we have observed in recent decades
No scientist, smart person or even politician is claiming we pretend to control "cycles of nature", where did your stupid idea arise ?

Science is a discipline, NOT a source of blame, you SHOULD know this jeffensley you assert you're ES, why DON"T you know essential Physics of ES - doh ?
https://en.wikipe...transfer

jeffensley Fails in logic with
.. believe that if the change is our fault then we must also have the power to fix it!
Stupid, tell it to past victims nuclear war !

jeffensley Fails claiming
We observe something, pretend the little we see is reflective of a trend/pattern that didn't exist before..
FFS You an ES ?
https://en.wikipe..._forcing

Learn Physics !

Nov 03, 2015
baudrunner says
No amount of human intervention will stop the inevitable pattern of geological evolution
That might well be but, what makes you imagine we are going through some "gelogical evolution" ?

Here is the definition of geology, please enlighten us as to what you imagine you are trying to say ?
https://en.wikipe.../Geology

On what basis have you convinced yourself the rapid rise of CO2 in the atmosphere last 100+ yrs is "geological evolution" & NOT consequence of burning equivalent of ~230,000 Litres per second 24/7 ?

baudrunner states
I'm certain that carbon emissions were not responsible for the rise in sea levels 10,000 years ago
Likely but, any trained scientist looks at all relevant Physics, that includes variance in eg contribution of albedo & re Total Solar Insolation etc

Our recent situation both of which on the wane whilst CO2/heat continues to rise, haven't you been advised of this previously, seems you're going backwards ?

Nov 03, 2015
Another bit of toilet paper from the Potsdam Institute. The main player is Hans Joachim Schellnhuber who was at the center of the Climate-gate affair. Look up the Der Speigel interview from April 2010. Schellnhuber "invented" the 2 degree tipping point out of whole cloth. The Nazi is strong in this one.

Nov 03, 2015
richard_f_cronin claims
Another bit of toilet paper from the Potsdam Institute. .. ..The Nazi is strong in this one
This is just WHY education is not just extremely important but, absolutely essential to avoid ANY Nazi like propaganda or claims of degrees in Environmental Science (jeffensley), claims of degrees in Electrical/Nuclear Engineering (Benni) or claims of multiple 'technical degrees' (Water_Prophet) - LOL !

The banal & very stupid appeal to authority doesn'tt help anyone, it panders to the uneducated that unfortunately unlucky to have gained useful university qualification are thus manipulated by claim from the primitive perspective of "he who shouts the loudest must be right"

Wonderful about a sound Physics education, for example is, one becomes immune to propaganda whether from; politicians, media, commercial groups etc & not only make up one's own mind but, also gain skills useful to extend that education to determine the truth - aye bluehigh ?

Nov 03, 2015
No, it most certainly wasn't but we like to pretend we have control over the cycles of nature so Science has blamed humanity for all the changes we have observed in recent decades.

I think you don't understand how climate science works. Scientists look at the patterns and known natural and human contributions. Then they do multivariate analysis and check which causes play a role in the changes we observe and which ones don't.

They don't arbitrarily assign man-made causes to global warming and say non-man-made causes aren't responsible. If you believe that then you should relearn what science actually means (or maybe just start reading some scientific papers and inspecting the methodology detailed therein instead of making up baseless assumptions. That would cure you of that misapprehension mighty quickly).

Nov 03, 2015
This is just WHY education is not just extremely important but, absolutely essential to avoid ANY Nazi like propaganda or claims of degrees in Environmental Science (jeffensley), claims of degrees in Electrical/Nuclear Engineering (Benni) or claims of multiple 'technical degrees' (Water_Prophet) - LOL !


You sure do have that right. Don't leave out the glam-Skippy who was the six different kinds of Senior Engineer at the foundry and the semiconductor designer and the nuclear inspector and the power company and taught 33,000 engineers all the good stuff they didn't learn in engineer school and trouble chooted robots for the Chevrolet factories.

The banal & very stupid appeal to authority doesn'tt help anyone, it panders to the uneducated that unfortunately unlucky to have gained useful university qualification are thus manipulated by claim from the primitive perspective of "he who shouts the loudest must be right"


Oh yeah, that is the glam-Skippy alright.

Nov 03, 2015
"What we call the eternal ice of Antarctica unfortunately turns out not to be eternal at all," says Johannes Feldmann.

Only somebody whos knows nothing about Antarctica would call it the "Land of Eternal Ice". So the ice was there when the rainforests were thriving on the continent?

"destabilization can cause complete loss"

So this is proven, or did you mean to say "could cause"?

Nov 03, 2015
As I have said repeatedly, we have destabilized the climate, which is the result of the interaction between many complex systems. When it changes rapidly and reaches a new stable state, it may not be one conducive to Human habitat.

Those here for gossip or to play personal games are unaware of the dangers. It is our duty to inform them.

Nov 03, 2015
Uncle Ira's intense misplaced jab
Don't leave out the glam-Skippy who was the six different kinds of Senior Engineer...
Exaggerated prejudice does you NO credit, so much you jumped on & so easy to lazily follow bullying than to understand that era

Trust you'll be genuine, review & verify provenance of current perception, you're sadly misled by Ghost's ugly & angry beating up re gkam:-

1. Age ~74 yrs, retired ~10yrs
2. Air force vet many technical fields
3. Back then & still today many with mil training often hired as engineers across disciplines
4. You exaggerate he specifically claimed all quals, he stated what he worked on but, doesn't
matter, back then eng. fields had a great deal of casual crossover, gkam's experience is his & valid
5. His style is open & like all we have our ego thats fine, doesn't mean he's a liar as such

As I said, back then, delineation of "precise" quals re multiple eng. disciplines was very different

I've experienced it too, peace

Nov 03, 2015
Those here for gossip or to play personal games are unaware of the dangers.


What about the peoples here for lying, bragging, and sloganeering? They are unaware that they hurt our causes more than the deniers ever could. Do you think Sarah Palin actually helps her causes? Then why would you think you do acting just exactly like her?

It is our duty to inform them.


That's what I am doing glam-Skippy.

Nov 03, 2015
Uncle Ira's intense misplaced jab
Don't leave out the glam-Skippy who was the six different kinds of Senior Engineer...
Exaggerated prejudice does you NO credit, so much you jumped on & so easy to lazily follow bullying than to understand that era


Well aren't you the kettle calling the pot black, eh? And peoples say I talk funny, so I got to ask, why you get your tenses mixed up in every postum? You go from "to" to "about" and back to "to" in the same paragraphs. Is that some kind of scientifical stuffs you learned in the science schools?

I've experienced it too, peace


My condolences Skippy for that. But it not my fault.


Nov 03, 2015
Well, gosh-a-roonie, folks, we can do the goober-speak, too. I done learnt to do that-there stuff from all them dust-bowlers who commed here to escape the Midwest.

It comes in handy-like when we is ignorant of the topic.

Nov 03, 2015
@ Mike-Who-Talks-To-Him-Shelf-Skippy. You call what I said the exaggeration? I said exactly what glam-Skippy said, using LESS words, not more words.

Don't leave out the glam-Skippy who was the six different kinds of Senior Engineer...
Exaggerated prejudice does you NO credit, so much you jumped on & so easy to lazily follow bullying than to understand that era


Exaggerated Cher? Lets see, eh?

Research Engineer, testing BWR SRVs


Electronic Engineer for National Semiconductor designing integrated circuits


Senior Engineer for PG&E,


Plant Engineer for Iron foundries


Senior Engineer in Technical Services


Master of Science in Environmental Management


Then he forgot and said,,,

Master of Science in Energy and the Environment


And I have seen the picture of it, it really says Master of Science Professional Studies. So you find your self defending the Sarah Palin of the new agey side.


Nov 03, 2015
"They are unaware that they hurt our causes more than the deniers ever could."
------------------------------------------------
"Our cause"? What have YOU done, Toots?

I paid money and several years earning a Master of Science in the field, and worked as a professional in it. I have re-egineered my home, and am on the way to be independent of the power company.

I discuss technical issues, not personal snipes.
What do you do? Take personal shots out of ignorance?

Nov 03, 2015
Wow, Ira got most of my history right. I was only a Senior Engineer in the most important of the jobs, in Technical Services for what was at them time the biggest non-govenmental power company on Earth. And apparently he has not seen many diplomas, if he thinks mine is not valid for the field.

But he forgot that I got to do some interesting stuff in the Air Force early on, then just before retiring, educated over 30,000 students in my technical Power classes. I am really sorry to have done that stuff, but just went where life took me, trying to get along.

What did you do?

Be specific.

Nov 03, 2015
I discuss technical issues, not personal snipes.


You lie again Cher. You do not discuss technical issues. You sling slogans, and get your head handed to you every time you try to get technical. And you came in slinging personal snipes too, you start with your very first postum here. So that is two GREAT BIG LIES in one little bitty sentence.

What do you do?


I comment on what peoples are saying. If peoples don't like it, they got several different options Skippy. They can just ignore me, or they can try a little harder to not say silly things, or they can just put up me. You are a lying old man who wants to have more real accomplishments than he really has. You should be content with what you have done.

And lying to promote your causes is still lying. Insulting anybody who disagrees is still insulting. Why you don't think it counts when you do it? When you do it first?
Take personal shots out of ignorance?

Nov 03, 2015
"You are a lying old man who wants to have more real accomplishments than he really has. "
----------------------------

Nope. I am real. You even looked me up. Who are you?

You lose again.

Nov 03, 2015
What did you do?

Be specific.


I have done what I have done and feel pretty good about my life. Good enough that I don't feel I need to boost up my self esteems by bragging and exaggerating all the wonderful things that six people could not really do in one life times, non.

What I done, what you done, what they done. That is the whole point you silly couyon, what you done is not important to anybody. Nobody ever asked you, but you seem to think it is so interesting and important that you need to include it in every single postums.

Saying: "I am right because I did,,,,, " is not a technical debate. And so far that is all you got Cher.

Nov 03, 2015
"You should be content with what you have done."
------------------------

Well, gosh, I am. You do not know of the good stuff, and you would choose to not believe it, anyway. The trouble is, when I try to tell folk so they do not make the same mistakes as we made back then, inexperienced guys like you get fired up and call us liars. Would YOU identify yourself online then lie?

It is time you let go of your ego and followed those who already blazed the paths you are on.

Nov 03, 2015
Nope. I am real.


No you are not.

You even looked me up.


That is how I know that most of the stuffs you claim are lies and exaggerations.

Who are you?


I am Ira-Skippy. From Port Fourchon in Lafourche Parish in Lousiana. I told you that every time you ask me. You keep asking hoping I will do something stupid like you do, brag and exaggerate or postum up some silly stuffs nobody cares about. That's another reason I am a lot smarter than you Skippy. I am Ira-Skippy, not more and and not less either.

You lose again.


See what I mean? You are just as dumb as cypress stump. What the heck does that mean? What did I lose? Skippy, you just another fool on the interweb, what can I lose to you?

I don't have any care in the world about some fool on the interweb says, and you are consumed by what some fool on the interweb says. Are you really so stupid that you can not see that? I don't care at all and you care too much.

Nov 03, 2015
"I don't have any care in the world about some fool on the interweb says, and you are consumed by what some fool on the interweb says."
-------------------------------

Oh, . . then why do you follow me around, giving me ones on every post, whether you understand it or not? I invite everybody to look that up.

Look, Ira, you had your fun playing the goober with that silly-speak, and the need to be a smart-ass. But this is a forum about science, not your "funny" comments about everything else.

Please take what you called "The Uncle Ira Show" to facebook, where they are on your level.

Nov 03, 2015
Oh, . . then why do you follow me around, giving me ones on every post, whether you understand it or not? I invite everybody to look that up.


I vote like I want to vote. If I was going to let you decide what I should vote it would be sort of stupid, eh? Why you care how I vote? I don't whine about how you vote. I don't care how you vote or anybody else either. It does not mean any thing.

Look, Ira, you had your fun playing the goober with that silly-speak, and the need to be a smart-ass.But this is a forum about science, not your "funny" comments about everything else.


You like slinging insults, silly slogans and bragging about what a wonderful expert you are at every thing, and you want to tell me what this place is for? It's not a forum, but it is about science, not new-agey blogging or glam-Skippy.

take what you called "The Uncle Ira Show" to facebook, where they are on your level.


Why you don't take your own advice Cher? I'll pass me.

Nov 03, 2015
@ glam-Skippy. I am going to let you win again Cher. Some other stuffs are needing my attentions right now. I'll let you get back to your technical debating, and polite non insulting, and never bragging about the real peoples and such like like you always do.

Nov 03, 2015
This could happen.It does not mean it was the fault of mankind.
Things happen anyway.
I'll bet we live until we die. It is not important.
Life goes on.

Nov 03, 2015
"Life goes on."
-------------------------

For extremophiles, perhaps.

Nov 03, 2015
Wow, Ira got most of my history right. I was only a Senior Engineer in the most important of the job
No, you were an amateur who supposedly held a position with the title senior engr. But it didnt last very long. They had you working as a tourguide and then as a member of a team-teaching lunch-and learn. You taught -100s?- which mustve been the bulk of your 6 yr stay at PG&E.

And then you were canned. So sad.

And why is this fucking thread about you again???

Nov 03, 2015
That may be what I would do if I were you, with your limited abilities, otto, but most of us are not so limited.

What is this envy with my history? Is it because you have none? You and Ira have a real problem when you run into a real person, like me and Mike. Hiding behind your phony names, you apparently have no life outside this forum, certainly from your ignorance of how the world works.

Own up to who you are, and I will introduce you to REAL engineers, with REAL diplomas, and lots of REAL experience. And all their experience is different. Who'd have thought?

WOW!

Nov 04, 2015
George, according to the evidence youve presented, you apparently had 20-some jobs over the course of your career.

You lost every one.

Further, you seem to enjoy bragging about it.

Further, you apparently feel the need to lie about what they were and what you did while you had them.

Who would envy a loser like that?

Nov 04, 2015
This could happen.It does not mean it was the fault of mankind.
Things happen anyway.
I'll bet we live until we die. It is not important.
Life goes on.

Were you inebriated when you wrote this?

Nov 04, 2015
we lack sufficient evidence to tell whether or not the Amundsen ice destabilization is due to greenhouse gases and the resulting global warming

So, let's say so anyway, the Chicken Littles are hungry.

Nov 04, 2015
"You lost every one."
------------------------------

Yeah, . . . I'll never forget the day I was fired from the Air Force.

In fact November 4 was the day I left for and from the war, 1967-68.

Where did you serve, Mister Patriot??

Nov 04, 2015
Yeah, . . . I'll never forget the day I was fired from the Air Force.


I thought you got out early because you couldn't live your self for fighting in the war?

In fact November 4 was the day I left for and from the war, 1967-68.


What does November the 4 mean? Oh, that is today and you though that would be a great way to sneak in a little bit of bragging, eh? Now tell the trut Cher, are you going to stick with that date in 1967 and 1968 too? (Are you ever going to remember the "Three-Minute-Take-It-Back-Rule" I been trying to help you with?)

Where did you serve, Mister Patriot??


That lame question has not served you very well, but you do love to stick with the losing things that never worked because the goobers were to stupid to not see how witty and smart they are,,,,,,,,, and not learn anything as you go along.

Nov 06, 2015
35 comments and just a single one discussing the actual article? Really?

Nov 06, 2015
In fact November 4 was the day I left for and from the war, 1967-68.

So gskam, November 4 was when you stuck yourself to the bottom of some unsuspecting soldier' s boot and 68 was when they finally managed to scrape you off.

Nov 07, 2015
Seems many AGW deniers arbitrarily follow business & Still refuse to get base education in essential proven (for >100 yrs) underlying Physics of heat

Instead some arbitrarily track perceptions of major business groups & although there's key evidence a major business accept Science advice Eg Rothschild divesting
http://www.thegua...e-change

But, below an overall critical mass perception as yet. Bloomberg group is perceived as a leader coalescing input from many commercial organisations, here is their particular view on AGW
http://www.bloomb...e-world/

Of course essentials of greenhouse gas properties is heat (Infra Red) retention
https://en.wikipe...transfer
leads to
https://en.wikipe..._forcing
& which lifts H2O re
https://en.wikipe...ometrics

Can ANY denier refute the core Physics, anywhere at all ?

Nov 07, 2015
TheGhostofOtto1923 with ugliness claims
George, according to the evidence youve presented, you apparently had 20-some jobs over the course of your career. You lost every one
This is false characterisation of how the engineering/technical operate. you often mis-construe a great deal as to how technical people function.

Eg. You showed anger against me when I correctly stated electronic engineers can work on projects supervised by mechanical engineers, you claimed this was NOT possible unless the electronic engineer had qualifications in mechanical engineering. I pointed out you can check the issue with any university ie even mine, Curtin but, you failed to apologise & instead found other means to vent anger & ugly snipes.

TheGhostofOtto1923 you are NOT aware; Tech people are project oriented & move from one to another according to "Scope of work"

If any engineer 'lost' even 2, how do you imagine he'd get 18 more ?

Learn re Project oriented "Scope of Work" !

Nov 07, 2015
otto can't give it up. I beat him at his game, the one he bragged about. Now, he follows me around like a puppy, trying to pee on my leg. Instead, he just gets it all over himself.

He then includes in his fixation cut-and-paste sentences from studies of psychopathy, . . . a scream for help.

Meanwhile, when the calving increases the flow of glacier ice into the sea, sea level rise will create great cost and hardship.

Nov 07, 2015
TheGhostofOtto1923 with ugliness claims


Yeah, he does use a lot of ugliness. Sometimes it is called for. But I bet otto-Skippy never made half the interweb mad at him for stealing peoples money on the ebay offering to sell them the fuse block with pretty blue LEDs on him.

Nov 07, 2015
@gkam, Uncle Ira, TheGhostofOtto1923 & others diverted by personality

Best to converge, retaliation is ugly with bad -ve dynamic. Of course evidence useful but, hope we are aware opinions aren't easily connectable to evidence, so to claim (& pursue) anything related only with opinion is a LIE is a type of bullying, sure *ask* for evidence & move on

Re evidence, some make illogical claims often motivated by jealousy/bullying. If it comes to issues such as theft; Eg identity re Water_Prophet, intellectual property or anything specific to actual Theft Uncle Ira then police involved

On ebay too & recorded AND relevant person would have immense Negative feedback customers didnt receive products, if seller has 100% Positive feedback then logic indicates theft claims are false, which ebay nick with the negative feedback please ?

All cultures I've visited worldwide respect of names is mature, adding cher/skippy appears sad way to diminish others, mutual respect please

Nov 07, 2015
Best to converge, retaliation is ugly with bad -ve dynamic. Of course evidence useful but, hope we are aware opinions aren't easily connectable to evidence, so to claim (& pursue) anything related only with opinion is a LIE is a type of bullying, sure *ask* for evidence & move on


You peoples who come for no reason but "take on the trolls" and lord it over the "common peoples" with your snide and condescending "I am the authority" way of making your postums are all the same. You never know when you over played your hand.

Not very observant for "scientifical authority", are you there Skippy? "Ira-Skippy the idiot coonass Cajun who talks funny can not possibly be smarter than me" You guys are all the same,,,,,

Lie? Me? Have I yet? Oh well, here is me lying (AGAIN),,,,

http://www.calais...t=267448

Nov 07, 2015
P.S. for Everybody else.

I am not talking about the really smart Skippys who are not here to "prove" anything. You guys that are just regular peoples. I am NOT talking about Captain-Skippy or Mangus-Skippy or thermo-Skippy or Eikka-Skippy or antialias-Skippy or IMP-Skippy or Anonymous-Skippy or Viet-Skippy or Q-Skippy or xyz-Skippy or others like them non.

I AM talking bout the ones who make them self feels good by telling other peoples what they don't know.

Yeah Bennie-Skippy.Like you. Bet you could never have guessed or suspected that ol Ira-Skippy CAN do the differential equations (and integrals too me.) And a lot more.

Yeah glam-Skippy. Like you too. Bet it never crossed your mind that there was anyway under the sun that ol Ira-Skippy CAN do the Fourier Series AND Fourier Transforms. So yeah, I can do all those lame things you keep pretending you know.

Really-Skippy. You couldn't physic your way out of wet paper bag.

Zephir-Skippy is more real than you couyons.


Nov 07, 2015
phil, are you ignorant of the difference between calving grounded glacier ice and floating ice?

Nov 07, 2015
Yeah, . . . I'll never forget the day I was fired from the Air Force
The first of a very long list?
Eg. You showed anger against me when I correctly stated electronic engineers can work on projects supervised by mechanical engineers, you claimed this was NOT possible unless the electronic engineer had qualifications in mechanical engineering. I pointed out you can check the issue with any university ie even mine
Woah this is all bullshit. I never said any of this.

Perhaps youre confusing me with somebody else who thinks youre an idiot?
If any engineer 'lost' even 2, how do you imagine he'd get 18 more ?
George isnt an engr, by his own admission. By his own admission we can conclude he thinks hes better than one.

But hes proven many times that this is delusion.

As to job-hopping. george has said he hates HR people. Theyre trained to identify people with his peculiar 'talents'.
cont>

Nov 07, 2015
"psychopaths are good imposters. They have absolutely no hesitation about forging and brazenly using impressive credentials to adopt professional roles that bring prestige and power. They pick professions in which the requisite skills are easy to fake, the jargon is easy to learn, and the credentials are unlikely to be thoroughly checked. Psychopaths find it extremely easy to pose as financial consultants, ministers, psychological counselors and psychologists. And that's a scary thought."

-George learned a few equations and some engg jargon. Easy to fool overworked supervisors who assume pros are honest people.

"What's more, the job is very easy because most people are gullible with an unshakable belief in the inherent goodness of man.

"Lawyers, doctors, teachers, politicians, psychiatrists and psychologists, generally do not have to earn our trust because they have it by virtue of their positions. But the fact is: psychopaths are found in such lofty spheres also."

Nov 07, 2015
are you ignorant of the difference between calving grounded glacier ice and floating ice?
-Notice how they will drop a few technical terms to give the impression that they know what they are talking about?

George thinks that nitrogen oxides are all one thing.

He also wants us to believe that manure is a major constituent of pollution in the air high above the central valley.

To add credence to this garbage he called manure 'volatile solids'. A quick search proved he doesnt know what volatile solids are.

"The psychopath recognizes no flaw in his psyche, no need for change."

Nov 07, 2015
Uncle Ira incoherent
Not very observant for "scientifical authority", are you there Skippy? "Ira-Skippy the idiot coonass Cajun who talks funny can not possibly be smarter than me" You guys are all the same,,
What guys, r u ill ?

As I stated, in all cultures I've visited worldwide its mature/respectful to refer people's name/nick as they spell it & no idea re "Cher/Skippy" ?

Sad Uncle Ira
Lie? Me? Have I yet? Oh well, here is me lying (AGAIN)
Yes, you made a BIG mistake, ebay profile 100%
http://www.ebay.c...e_engine

Uncle Ira with very NARROW research
http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/showthread.php?s=4bcfcc6a0ba63c044a8bccbc96d9eeb9&t=267448
Sure, few angry people couldn't contact me when I was ill, is that your very smartest & best ?

Many demanded refunds but, not having paid, claiming theft to take advantage !

Those who asked for & provided evidence they paid - received refunds promptly, EVIDENCE otherwise please or ugly prejudice ?

Nov 07, 2015
Or we could build cites that are not susceptible to such conditions

Nov 07, 2015
Sad Uncle Ira
Lie? Me? Have I yet? Oh well, here is me lying (AGAIN)
Yes, you made a BIG mistake, ebay profile 100%
http://www.ebay.c...e_engine


Purple engine, eh? What Cher? You didn't think I missed that did you? That 100% reminds of all the wonderful "unsolicited" testimonials that glam-Skippy got when he taught 33,000 electrical engineers everything they didn't learn in school. It is the new account. Not the old account that got closed down for swindling peoples. Choot Skippy, Purple-Skippy is not even selling anything, eh?

Those who asked for & provided evidence they paid - received refunds promptly,


You must have read the wrong linkup. Here he is again,,,,,

http://www.calais...378.html

,,, page 4 are all those peoples getting their money back promptly. Right? Get off me now Cher because I have not played any of my good cards and I might want to talk about running a cafeteria.


Nov 08, 2015
Uncle Ira goes down the defamation route LYING
Purple engine, eh? What Cher? You didn't think I missed that did you?
You DID miss it, read on Uncle Ira, I expect apology forthwith

Uncle Ira claimed
.. It is the new account. Not the old account that got closed down for swindling peoples
You Failed to read AND ask ebay see bottom of profile, still open
http://www.ebay.c...e_engine
"Member since: 03 Aug, 2002"

Uncle Ira for no reason claimed
Choot Skippy, Purple-Skippy is not even selling anything, eh?
So what ? why important to anyone ?

Last sale Sep 2015
http://www.ebay.c...74540878

What's your problem Uncle Ira, consumed by prejudice, flamed by GhostofOtto1923, nothing better to do than waste time digging, your hands & psyche get Grubby is it the best you can do ?

If anyone doubts, even a little, ask ebay, did Uncle Ira ?

Confirms Uncle Ira LIES, risks defamation action, re above claiming my ebay account closed !

cont

Nov 08, 2015
Continued @ Uncle Ira
Caught not reading my ebay profile caught not checking with ebay, caught in defamation :-(

But, there's more, Uncle Ira with prejudice not able to read digs for more dirt & finds
http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/archive/index.php/t-99378.html
Gee nice testimonials there & 5 years after started on ebay, so ?

Uncle Ira claims
,, page 4 are all those peoples getting their money back promptly. Right?
No page 4.

I sold >600 with great feedback, mother died of alzheimers, house/car broken into & stock & business records stolen, I became very ill with deep depression as orders piled up. Slowly recovering, a buyer bothered to check, passed on my note to the forum indicating refunds would be made provided they:-
Prove they'd paid for the product & Declare they had NOT already received a refund

Those who did that - received refunds PROMPTLY, evidence otherwise please or more ugly prejudice from Uncle Ira who just loves digging for dirt ?

cont

Nov 08, 2015
Continued @ Uncle Ira

Very sad, you are utterly consumed by prejudice & can't think straight, it does you no credit to blindly follow GhostofOttos1923's ugly pattern of propaganda, which has even led you to LIE openly on public forum claiming:-

1 My ebay account was closed due to swindling
2 Those that asked for refunds never got them

Both completely untrue but, whats Very troubling Uncle Ira, is you didn't check either !

Where is Evidence of the above & why not check ? Aren't you embarrassed ?

Then, you jump on a public forum with those claims against someone who was happy to identify themselves long before, sadly with immense negligence put you squarely in the frame for defamation :-(

You might ask yourself who you are dealing with & whether or not I would let this go ?

Have been willing & able to take Australian Federal Government to task & win fully, Eg
http://www.austli...245.html

I await your earnest apology by return post

Nov 08, 2015
Confirms Uncle Ira LIES, risks defamation action


Do your best with that Skippy.

Nov 08, 2015
Have been willing & able to take Australian Federal Government to task & win fully


Is that what that says? To me it says you didn't have to pay the Light Timers for doing some sort consult for you. Who is was you took to the task? 20 years ago?

I await your earnest apology by return post


You got my earnest condolences Skippy, Because you going to spend a lot of time waiting you.

Can I ask you a question? A serious question s'il vous plait? Why it is that when the conversation starts getting sticky for you "intellectual giants" you always fall back on the "let's try to steer the discussion on a different tack"? You guys are supposed to be smart enough to realize that has not worked the past and usually makes the thing you are trying to divert from all that much more noticeable.

Ebay? 194 positive reviews. In 12 short years? Wowwie Cher!! All but 50 or so are from peoples you BOUGHT $1.50 switches from? I asked if you thought I missed that.

Nov 08, 2015
Uncle Ira claims

,, page 4 are all those peoples getting their money back promptly. Right?

No page 4.


Yes page 4.

http://www.calais...p;page=4

Oh yeah, I almost forget. Do you still live in the Mount Hawthorn neighborhood? Or did you get the eviction boot-a-roo from that place?

Nov 08, 2015
Wow, Ira has turned into a nasty little person, hasn't he? Unable to discuss technical issues, he reaches up to the gutter to attack folk personally.

He also HATES achievement, having none of his own.

So, he and the coward hiding behind the pseudonym otto camp here to make silly and offensive comments about others, those who want to debate issues.

Do you see a single instance of Ira debating an appropriate issue? Can you find an instance of him not following me around to give me ones? These folk are sick.

Nov 08, 2015
Uncle Ira Failed to prove *any* claim
Confirms Uncle Ira LIES, risks defamation action
Do your best with that Skippy
You made a defamatory claim my ebay account was closed due to swindling, that you made up, account opened 2002 & open ever since, never closed, ID never changed, capisce' ?

Why do you lie Uncle Ira, why didn't ask ebay & be smart ?
You wouldn't be embarrassed risking defamation behind attempted anonymous nick, be careful !

When will you retract your false claim please ?

Uncle Ira Fails to comprehend
To me it says you didn't have to pay the Light Timers..
Wrong, read again !
Action before federal Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) against Australian Trade Commission Re EMDG Act 1974 & Light Timers as witness, straightforward, easy to read, why mis-characterise again, are you ill, what meds ?

Uncle Ira Fails in claim
All but 50 or so are from peoples you BOUGHT $1.50 switches from?
Wrong again, last 2 sale SW's & others

cont

Nov 08, 2015
Proving stuff to Auntie Ira will not work. I did it, sending him my diploma, the body of my Master Thesis, copies of the base newspaper announcing I was Airman of the Month for the entire Air Force Flight Test Center, but he disparaged it all, not having any achievements of his own.

I thought he would have the character to accept it, but instead, he tries to lie about it. Pathetic.

Ask him a technical question. Do not fall for reacting to his personal nonsense, it is only playing his game, which he calls "The Uncle Ira Show" to his fellow goobers on the mud boats.

Ask him a technical question.

Nov 08, 2015
Uncle Ira finally got link but, Failed to read
Yes page 4
http://www.calais...p;page=4
You missed the point, last post 11th Jan 2014, some 22 mths ago !

All angry malevolent people like you that asked & received refunds & the polite (but only if they paid) when I was on road to recovery dropped it, old hat !

Note: With large no of sales on 14 online car forums, only "one" you found, you missed other 13 (Eg V8's, Hot Fours, Camira, Vintage, etc) with juicy stuff from criminals never paid yet demanded 'money under menace' had police reports lodged. How did you miss those Uncle Ira, back to keyboard 4 u ?

Uncle Ira Fails
..Do you still live in the Mount Hawthorn neighborhood?
Be smart think Uncle Ira, be accurate, 8 Unit dev site 18 Brady St, 3 Kms from CBD, sold for tidy sum, so what - are you so ill ?

Sad, look @ details, prove your claims Uncle Ira, what cafe u claim ?

Idle prejudice has you badly diminished, apologise ?

Nov 08, 2015
Mike, stop proving it. It only gives the goobers more ammunition to misrepresent what you say. They are not here for truth, they are here for gaming. Otto bragged about it, and Ira can't discuss anything technical. They are just gamers, trying to "be somebody" here since they are not, in reality.

Nov 08, 2015
@gkam, quite understand your sentiment, sad about Uncle Ira & GhostofOtto1923 both do come across as supremely intent on prickly negative simplicity with negligible cognition of just what technical people do but, not quite finished yet re taking Uncle Ira to task, he claims he's more to say re a cafeteria ?

Research ongoing re issue of foreign originated defamation via online forums re timing of when/how victims acknowledge their ID & *then* people knowing subsequently commit defamation, good thing is, seems I have at least 5 yrs from Uncle Ira's very stupid claims, so sad

Thing is Uncle Ira failed to consider a Key point ffs, long ago I chose to be open re my ID & name, location, contact details etc on this forum & some others can he think why ?
Eg http://www.alzforum.org/
joined whilst I was my moms carer when in last stages of Alzheimers

Didn't Uncle Ira consider I know many forums are open to google - doh - but, he missed it & 13 others

What Cafe Uncle Ira ?

Nov 08, 2015
Research ongoing re issue of foreign originated defamation via online forums re timing of when/how victims acknowledge their ID & *then* people knowing subsequently commit defamation, good thing is, seems I have at least 5 yrs from Uncle Ira's very stupid claims, so sad.


I got a really good idea for you to try Skippy. Something will that put the goobers to shaking in their boots. Maybe you could do something like write an email to the physorg pretending like you are a lawyer and are going to sue them for letting ol Ira-Skippy say mean things on the interweb. Hooyeei, I bet that would show ol Ira-Skippy who is the smart one, eh?

Oh yeah, I almost forget. Don't forget to put your real name in the top and ol Ira-Skippy's too. Otherwise we might think it is from the Nigerians and throw him in the spam can.

Nov 08, 2015
Uncle Ira too late, suggested
.. Maybe you could do something like write an email to the physorg pretending like you are a lawyer and are going to sue them for letting ol Ira-Skippy say mean things on the interweb...
Way ahead of you.. Although I sat in on many key lectures at University of Western Australia around 1989-91, never needed to enrol or bothered to get credits & I don't claim legal qualifications but, prepared me well understanding essentials ie terminology re AAT case & especially so re 18 month position as unlisted public co director

Uncle Ira said
.. Don't forget to put your real name in the top and ol Ira-Skippy's too. Otherwise we might think it is from the Nigerians...
Really ? can't you be more mature ? please avail yourself of legal research, be smart apologise or prepare

1. Explain why dirt digging ?
2. Explain why lying re ebay ?
3. Found complaints on those other 13 car forums yet ?
4. Cafeteria you mumbled about ?

shakes head

Nov 08, 2015
No mention of the geologic activity and increased heat from magma underneath the Thwaits glacier. This is probably the leading factor, but the AGW crowd have put all their eggs in the CO2 basket. Science suffers from the mob mentality.

Nov 08, 2015
" the AGW crowd have put all their eggs in the CO2 basket"
--------------------------------------

Are you speaking for them?

My worry is about the huge amounts of methane going to be released soon from the warming permafrost and warming or disturbed clathrates/hydrates.

Nov 08, 2015
Uncle Ira too late, suggested
.. Maybe you could do something like write an email to the physorg pretending like you are a lawyer and are going to sue them for letting ol Ira-Skippy say mean things on the interweb...
Way ahead of you


Ahead of me? Non Cher, all that means is I got your silly stuffs and now everybody knows how silly you are, eh?

Don't forget to put your real name in the top and ol Ira-Skippy's too. Otherwise we might think it is from the Nigerians...
Really ? can't you be more mature ?


Hey, you are the one writing silly emails, not me.

please avail yourself of legal research, be smart apologise or prepare


Ain't going to happen Skippy. And oh yeah, we are prepared for anything you got. That's what I meant before with the "do your best". So far your best is pretty big fun for me.

shakes head


Condolences again Skippy. You should try shaking your belly with the big laugh, it is a lot more fun.

Nov 08, 2015
cjones1 claims
No mention of the geologic activity and increased heat from magma underneath the Thwaits glacier
Because its already been checked & not consistent with regional disparity in respect of glacial melting in *contact* with seawater & prevailing ocean currents. Quite simple stuff, don't you check this before posting, doesnt help your case when you claim "increased heat".

How many joules/second - ie Power & over what region ?

Where is there reference to your claim for a peer reviewed journal or an institute's data acquisition program and/or study up for discussion ?

Any satellite date to show any changes in surface temperatures directly above, around & away from & by how much & over what ice thickness ?

Come on man, claim doesnt cut it anymore, that notion >500 yrs old

cjones1 claims
.. but the AGW crowd have put all their eggs in the CO2 basket. Science suffers from the mob mentality.
No
Learn https://en.wikipe..._forcing

Nov 08, 2015
Uncle Ira asked
Ahead of me? Non Cher, all that means is I got your silly stuffs and now everybody knows how silly you are, eh?
Way ahead, you just don't know

You defamed me re ebay & cannot provide proof, why don't you be smart & apologise ?

Uncle Ira claimed
Hey, you are the one writing silly emails, not me
No, evidence is clear & plain to see you can't edit it anymore, your time has elapsed, you can either ask it be deleted by admin or apologise to me or both, your choice.

Uncle Ira Fails in logic
And oh yeah, we are prepared for anything you got. That's what I meant before with the "do your best". So far your best is pretty big fun for me
So you make defamatory claims inviting legal redress, how is this fun, its a very stupid thing to do.

Unclue Ira demonstrating immaturity
Condolences again Skippy. You should try shaking your belly with the big laugh, it is a lot more fun
Not smart. Dont play games with me

Nov 08, 2015
Mike, you are just feeding material for his Auntie Ira Show.

Ask Auntie Ira a technical question, then catch him/her using goober-speak to weasel out of it.

Meanwhile, this thread regards the possibility of us getting a large sea level rise. How is Ira going to help us stop it?

Oars on his boat?

Nov 08, 2015
No, evidence is clear & plain to see you can't edit it anymore, your time has elapsed, you can either ask it be deleted by admin or apologise to me or both, your choice.


You only give me two choices Cher. That is not fair. What if I want to pick None-Of-The-Above ? Well that is what I am picking even thought you did not put him up there.

Not smart. Dont play games with me


Well golly gee Cher, since you put it that way, I think I might lose some sleep tonight. (Where you couyons get your dialog from anyway? Sounds like a B movie to me.)

Nov 09, 2015
Proving stuff to Auntie Ira will not work. I did it, sending him my diploma, the body of my Master Thesis, copies of the base newspaper announcing I was Airman of the Month for the entire Air Force Flight Test Center, but he disparaged it all, not having any achievements of his own
What you sent ira confirmed that you were a college dropout and that you didnt earn the MS you said you did.

Ie you lied.

A favorite trick of the psychopath is to wait a few weeks and then tell the same lie as if it never was disproven.

George likes it here because he cant be fired and he cant be arrested. He can hide behind his lies about his backround, and he can forge facts with abandon, without the very real consequences he has had to face for this behavior in the real world.

He can posture, he can threaten, he can insult and abuse to his hearts delight.

Nov 09, 2015
"Internet Trolls Are Narcissists, Psychopaths, and Sadists

"An Internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation. Often, in fact, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved. Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response...

"Trolls truly enjoy making you feel bad."

-And its pretty obvious, at least to me, that george kamburoff is a psychopath.

Your airman of the month - was it only a free dinner? Did they give you a merit badge as well?

Nov 09, 2015
"Trolls truly enjoy making you feel bad."

"Your airman of the month - was it only a free dinner? Did they give you a merit badge as well?"
---------------------------------------------

This is hilarious.

Go read your posts in front of a mirror. It has something to tell you.


Nov 09, 2015
TheGhostofOtto1923 stated
An Internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation
Indeed, tell us please, what is your opinion of someone who goes to the trouble to pursue digging for dirt, driven by prejudice claims someone (ie me) had an ebay account which was closed due to swindling ?

What does such ugly vindictive behaviour achieve & tell us, other than showing up the pursuer is motivated to only attack to achieve what ?

And then, compounded when you being likewise vindictive idly spray one votes to me (strangely on items we agree about eg religion) without bothering to contact ebay & check that Uncle Ira's claim is stupid & false. Is that not psychopathic ?

Is it mature good character ?

What does it say about your anger & Uncle Ira's & your prejudice too ?

Should Uncle Ira (at least) apologize for making a such a HUGE error or hope we forget ?

Is anger your ONLY reason you are here ?

Nov 09, 2015
Should Uncle Ira (at least) apologize for making a such a HUGE error or hope we forget?


Should Mike-Who-Talks-To-Him-Self maybe be a little more careful who he tries his I-Superior-Than-You personas with? You got in my face Skippy, before I ever said a word to you. You should learn from that. Will you? Non, probably not. Guys like you never do.

You came to me and made up your bed. So Cher, you can rip off the linens and make him up over again, sleep on the floor or sleep in the bed you made up. Don't matter none to me which you choose to do.

I give you so many clues to who and what I am, and the glam-Skippy too. It's all right there before your eyes Cher. But you guys are so focused on how smart you are you can not see what is plain as day before your eyes.

You are so worried about what you look like, you miss all the clues and details that get left for you. Dumb as a cypress stump.

Nov 09, 2015
Here is approach to pin down both Uncle Ira & TheGhostofOtto1923 & a way to resolve so people can be honourable & treat schisms intelligently, read on...

TheGhostofOtto1923 demonstrates hostility against me often & also gkam & been vociferous dragging Uncle Ira tacitly inviting him to dig for dirt on me - otherwise why ?

Is it mature & inherent truism that accusers prove their claims or be mature & retract them ?

TheGhostofOtto1923 has shown hostility against gkam since he made claims but, fortunately they are easy to validate & I notice minimal hostility (so far) of he & Uncle Ira against Captain Stumpy who I respect immensely :-)

I see mention Captain Stumpy might validate gkam's claims.

In fairness then, can Uncle Ira prove his claims against me ie ebay or can we request Captain Stumpy to assist to resolve ?

ie. Has Captain Stumpy been able to validate gkam's claims ?
&
Leaving an ugly claim by Uncle Ira of theft is bad, shouldn't Uncle Ira prove it ?

Nov 09, 2015
Uncle Ira says
You came to me and made up your bed
Bed pardon, what does this mean ?

Uncle Ira claims
give you so many clues to who and what I am...
Beg pardon, accusations of theft isn't a clue, fabrication isn't a clue, instead of playing games, isn't it best to be smart & honourable, describe well what you claim re "who and what" ?

Uncle Ira you made ugly claim after being driven it seems by all sorts of propaganda & prejudice by GhostofOtto1923 to make things up, thats bad & defamatory :-(

When will you apologise & retract your claim ?

Uncle Ira stated
Dumb as a cypress stump
stump ?
See my post, wouldn't it be intelligent to respectfully request Captain Stumpy to offer his opinion as I noticed he could validate gkam's claim & you are ok with him - ok ?

Not asking Captain Stumpy ask ebay re my account (never closed still active), that is clearly Your responsibility to be honest & mature.

Sensible to apologise & retract your claim, you think ?

Nov 09, 2015
Leaving an ugly claim by Uncle Ira of theft is bad, shouldn't Uncle Ira prove it ?


I posted up the link to put support to my claim. But Cher, so what? We are still waiting for the call from your lawyers (and still having the BIG LAUGH over that one too.)

Oh yeah, I almost forget. Maybe you missed him yesterday, but I really would like to know. Where do you "intellectual giants" get your dialogs from when you are writing up these things to me? They are something out of a after the noon soap opera or a B grade movie. So pompous and full with your self. Do you practice making speeches in front of the mirrors?

Psst, Cher I whisper this to you for advice. You really do look silly saying the things you think make you so exalted.

Laissez les bons temps rouler. (That's coonass for: You thought were taking out the Flag-Boy, but it is really the Wild-Man you got a hold of.) Keep the fan mail coming, it is BIG FUN, eh?


Nov 09, 2015
Mike, they are silly gamers. "Ira" plays the "Cajun goober", as he put it, and brags about "The Uncle Ira Show" he plays here to his wife. Unable to discuss anything technical, he limits his posts to silly personal comments, showing up them smarty-pants guys who went to school.

otto is some kind of little guy with a big keyboard and double-covered layers of tracking protection.

These kids could not live without anonymity, the ability to snipe and cower, like a SCARED draft-dodger screaming "Bring 'em on!!" from his Undisclosed Location.

Nov 09, 2015
Mike_Massen?
RealityCheck?
Syntax differs, style (rhythm) is similar.

Nov 09, 2015
Uncle Ira says
You came to me and made up your bed
Bed pardon, what does this mean ?


It means (knew you were pretty stupid but I really did not think it was this bad) YOU came to me FIRST. So I realize it is a deep concept Skippy, but I bet you can get it. YOU addressed a comment to me FIRST.

When will you apologise & retract your claim ?


Dang Cher, you really are as dumb as a cypress stump, maybe even dumber. Why you ask me when? Did I say something that could have caused to think I might?

Sensible to apologise & retract your claim, you think ?


Well you haven't been so sensible up to now, but what the heck? Apology accepted. Now don't make any more comments to me again and I won't make any more to you. Deal?

Nov 09, 2015
Mike_Massen?
RealityCheck?
Syntax differs, style (rhythm) is similar.


The syntax is forced different. Style is spot on similar. Big-headed puffed up attitude, two peas in a pod.

Nov 09, 2015
Has Captain Stumpy been able to validate gkam's claims ?
@Mike
just saw this... sorry: i've been ignoring this thread
gkam has not given me an e-mail of permission to share said information, so i will not reply to anything other than that
AND - it would only apply to certain things g sent to me anyway, not to any other claims, just FYI

.

The syntax is forced different. Style is spot on similar
@IRA
mike is mike

RC is sam-i-am with a last name that is a funky screwed up spelling of a felt hat with a wide brim and indented crown


Nov 09, 2015
Uncle Ira Fails in his claim
I posted up the link to put support to my claim. But Cher, so what? We are still waiting for the call from your lawyers (and still having the BIG LAUGH over that one too.)
Failed to show evidence of your claim my ebay account was closed !

Why do you not understand, you need evidence to support claims, going to the trouble to dig for dirt & only finding impatient customers as unwise as you making stupid claims when I was ill only diminishes your character !

Why can't you be honourable & retract your claim OR provide evidence please ?

Defamation is serious & I take it especially seriously as one of my friends was severely injured by defamatory claims from unintelligent prejudice resulting in attempted suicide as a consequence when emotionally vulnerable.

Have you NO thought to what you are doing, no empathy, no care or consideration.

Please be sensible & retract your claim OR provide evidence, that is the intelligent action.

Nov 09, 2015
@ Mike-Who-Talks-To-Him-Self-Skippy. Now look here Cher, I accepted your apology and we agreed to not talk with each other again.

Why do you not understand, you need evidence to support claims, going to the trouble to dig for dirt & only finding impatient customers as unwise as you making stupid claims when I was ill only diminishes your character !


You steal that speech from Really-Skippy?

Defamation is serious & I take it especially seriously as one of my friends was severely injured by defamatory claims from unintelligent prejudice resulting in attempted suicide as a consequence when emotionally vulnerable..


You are Really-Skippy aren't you Cher? That crusader tale didn't work the last time either. (Can we get you to do the troll/mod/gang/bot/mafia thing again? It's been awhile.)

Nov 09, 2015
Captain Stumpy
just saw this... sorry: i've been ignoring this thread
No worries, fine re gkam, tah, Here's issue in nutshell:

Observed TheGhostofOtto1923 in ugly attack on gkam who's style has him irritated & both retaliate, although TheGhostofOtto1923 doesn't understand several issues & mis-characterises in far worse ways.

Uncle Ira apparently hates gkam's comments & claims he lies often, I feel TheGhostofOtto1923 has dragged him down but, he confirms to liken the 'playing'.

After I offer moderation, Uncle Ira digs dirt on me & starts posting links from old impatient customers >22mnths back when I was ill but, worse claims:-

1 My ebay account closed due to swindling
2 Customers never got refunds

Both are false but, Uncle Ira Refuses to prove claims which are highly defamatory !

Am about to work with new public co, my profile may be reviewed & Uncle Ira's stupidly potentially seriously damaging comments have consequences but, refuses to retract = defamation

Nov 09, 2015
Cher, I am starting to get a little busy me, so I am going to have to cut short fooling around with you for the day, okayeei?

Am about to work with new public co, my profile may be reviewed & Uncle Ira's stupidly potentially seriously damaging comments have consequences but, refuses to retract = defamation


Ask the Captain-Skippy while you are at it just how many times some silly couyon on here gets their feelings hurt and makes the warnings about legal action. Choot, what you get from me is mild compared to a lot of stuffs you see on the interweb. But please keep sending your stuffs about legal action and how physorg is the accomplice, that is really a hoot, eh? Almost as good as Really-Skippy's troll/mod/bot/gang/mafia stuffs.

Nov 09, 2015
...Otto
@Mike
irrelevant: they both hate each other- i aint getting in the middle of them
Uncle Ira
he is entitled to, and i aint getting between them either
After I offer moderation
ok, hold on one minute please

I suggest leaving them to fight it out among themselves unless something specific to you comes up

Not trying to be mean, Mike, but I also tried to fix the problem, but i was ignored

the fix is simple, too!
argue from evidence and not from authority, and forget about who went to what school, because of internet rule 37: "there are no [insert description here] on the internet"

it doesn't matter what education or school one has if one makes a blatantly false claim
PERIOD
this is just like waterprofit/ALCHIE... who has a degree, but still made blatantly false claims... the degree doesn't give you credibility, the EVIDENCE does... being able to actually validate a claim is what is important. not the degree or even the experience

2Bcont'd

Nov 10, 2015
@Mike cont'd
a good demo of this is Thermo. Thermo is the most meticulous person i know WRT the physics of climate change, and he is well read... but he isn't a climate scientist
why is he so able to argue effectively?
because he substantiates his claims with references and hard work/physics, etc
1 My ebay
2 Customers
Both are
What do either of you expect of me WRT this issue? it would have to be something in e-mails, just FYI
efuses to retract = defamation
This is between you two
what would you have me do?

if I would be allowed to moderate, I would first take this to e-mail
then i would set up rules between the two of you
then it could be worked out, but it would require both of you to be active

I suggest you two make up:
both of you have characteristics that can help or hinder each other

and there are FAR worse trolls here, like zeph and his socks still (not posting, just rating)
cantdrive, jvk, the eu, hannes....
concentrate on them, not each other


Nov 10, 2015
@Mike last post
now, especially WRT the hatred between otto-&-gkam and Ira-&-gkam...
this is a subject that i highly recommend you leave alone for a very important reason

through private correspondence i discussed this issue a few times
my point was always the same: quit using argument from authority, especially when you can't substantiate the claims you are making

I was ignored

i don't care on whit about being ignored (after all, i'm married with kids and grandkids)
but i will NOT get between them, especially since i've already tried to help and got blasted & attacked here on PO for it (terahertz wireless radiation exposure)
now, when someone says
You are wiki warriors playing semantic games
after i link studies, then it makes me consider things

internet is a wonderful, and horrible, thing

like i said above, i suggest working together rather than against each other

Nov 10, 2015
Captain Stumpy offered
like i said above, i suggest working together rather than against each other
Tried but, Uncle Ira thinks its ok to make claims without evidence, never said I *would* take legal action but, he seems ok with stupidity of risking it esp as I am able, between nicks its pointless but, he did it after I was identified, very sad, he refuses to apologise & sees it as a game, that isn't helpful

Thanks re evidence comments, that is my stock in trade, shouldn't this logically be direct to @Uncle Ira, he needs it far more than I...

Are you implying its ok to make things up about people & not own up & apologise, thats all it would take ?

I made first step request apology OR he show evidence but, nada

Not asking you to get in middle, I note your similar experience, not about feelings as Uncle Ira claims, about actual commercial damage, contractees google often, so far this site comes up near top on many lists.

Apology would be honourable...

Nov 10, 2015
Are you implying its ok to...
@mike
i assume that this was rhetorical?
Not asking you to get in middle
that is why i stay out of it, really: experience

you can prove your point, but you can't make anyone stop
the best bet is to let the evidence speak for itself
Apology would be honourable
not everyone is the same
especially when someone gets their back up... or feels offended themselves... or feels threatened

IMHO- link whatever evidence you want, let it speak for itself


Nov 10, 2015
about actual commercial damage, contractees google often
if it comes up on many lists, you would fare better by dealing with either presenting evidence for refute
OR
dealing with search engines directly

Litigation for you means big money costs ... there is multi-jurisdictional issues and injunctions needed... etc
there are at least 3 countries involved... plus it would require ALL for the injunction
then identification would be an issue as well (especially for those who set up profiles with google and use anonymizers- costly to track, and some are near impossible)
time is a factor
and final jurisdiction would be a major problem too, especially considering the parties involved
enforcement would be next to impossible (ESP considering multinational issue & politics)
AUS isn't known for cooperation in internet multi-national problems... let alone US or BRIT
then there is evidence

means, motive, opportunity
you only have 2 (motive?)

...but what do i know, eh?

Nov 10, 2015
@ Captain-Skippy.

Got the info, thanks. These guys really are a hoot. Every one of them just knows they are the tower of intellect but have trouble getting the peoples around them to show the proper deference and awe, eh? So they come to the interweb. It usually satisfies them for awhile, some couyons are better at than others, some for 4 or 3 months and some for 3 or 2 years, but in the end they always over play their hand, eh?

It is not the rocket science, so I wonder why every one of them have in common the exact same main flaw in their personality, they think the world is ending if they do not have everybody take them serious as they take them selfs, eh?

Yeah, I get offended me, when these couyons COME TO ME FIRST with their superior condescending arrogant snide attitude. "You need to learn some,,," "You don't know,,,," and "I am right because I was,,,," So what you do with couyons like that? Yeah, have fun me, AFTER they come to me first.

Nov 10, 2015
stumpy, STOP saying I cannot verify my claims!! Give me one claim about myself, unverified, and I will send what you need. Just because I am not in Wiki does not mean they are incorrect.

Grow the hell up, and stop being so SCARED of Ira and otto!

You cower before them.

I am not the one who hides behind phony names. I suggest a mirror.

Nov 10, 2015
P.S. for you Captain-Skippy.

Like glam-Skippy. He just knew he had me the other day by trying a technical question (and asked it wrong too). I give him the answer in another comment page (this one) and he did not even know enough that I answered his silly question. He just can even suspect that ol Ira-Skippy can do the Fourier Series and the Fourier Transforms so can tell him all about transients in transmission systems.

Choot that is one way I knew he was the pretender in the first place, four different times he told Bennie-Skippy he "could to do the quadratic equations" when Bennie-Skippy mentioned his differential equations. That is a hard mistake to make four different times if you are not pretending.

Hooyeei, and get me started with Bennie-Skippy. He just can not even suspect that yeah, I CAN do the differential equations me. And the integrals too.

Because I talk funny I must be stupid. That will continue to be a problem for anybody that thinks it.

Nov 10, 2015

"Breaker-breaker!!"

Nov 10, 2015

"Breaker-breaker!!"


See there? I told you that you did not really know anything about radio and electrical engineering. You might have worked FOR an engineer, but you never WERE an engineer. Why you and Bennie-Skippy get together and play with some differential equations that you call quadratic equations.

Nov 10, 2015
I left a question for Ira on the "going back in time" thread.

I expect an answer, but will not get a technical one. He is incapable of it.


Nov 10, 2015
STOP saying I cannot verify my claims
@gkam
since you are going to be an *sshole about it, lets see what i wrote
gkam has not given me an e-mail of permission to share said information, so i will not reply to anything other than that
AND - it would only apply to certain things g sent to me anyway, not to any other claims
to anyone with a basic 9th grade reading and comprehension level, this means:
1- I (stumpy) CANNOT verify any information
2- YOU (gkam) did not give me permission to share any information (hence the fact that i can't verify anything)

and in fact, now i WILL NOT even attempt to validate anything

I am getting sick and tired of your ego problems george
https://www.psych...ttle-ego

and i am NOT ANONYMOUS, you idiot
if otto can find me, so can anyone else


Nov 10, 2015
Yes I did, and your auntie and the mug she gave you.

I have pics.

Nov 10, 2015
Give me one claim about myself, unverified, and I will send what you need
Hey I got some (from your 'website')

"Read what others say about seminars from George Kamburoff

You are the best!"

"I've been an electrical engineer for over 15 years, . . . and this is the first time I really understood it!"

" Excellent! This was one of the most fruitful and educational workshops that I've had the privilege to attend"

"Mr. George Kamburoff was one of the most captivating speakers I've ever witnessed."

"Course should have been longer."

"Couldn't be better."

"Excellent seminar! So was the instructor."

"The big factor for me was the practical, down to earth level which he presented the info."

"The guy was great! Bring him back."

" This guy has answered the right calling. Excellent at what he's doing,"

-Who are the 'others'? Verify that real individuals said these things and that you did not just make them up yourself.

Nov 10, 2015
Hint: anyone who reads this list knows you made them up yourself.

WHAT a smelly pile.

WHAT a joke.

Nov 10, 2015
Hey george I just had a thought - why dont you make up phony names to add to your list of phony accolades?

Some people might actually fall for this.

From your 'training' page;
We will train
-Who is 'we'? And what exactly are your qualifications for training professionals?

Did you get in trouble for selling your services as a pro?

And this;
┬ęCopyright 1998 All rights reserved. Reproduction of all or part prohibited without express consent.
-Is copy/pasting this 'prohibited' stuff in violation of this or that?

And did you yourself violate similar rules when you posted
Shown below are voltage and current graphs of a transformer serving an office building in Silicon Valley. Although this is an extreme case, these conditions are common in today's office environments.
-on your 'website'?

Yeah this one;
http://www.kambur...tr1.html

Nov 10, 2015
Hi Forum. :)

A timely FYI for whomever it may concern:

There is provision in copyright law that allows limited/incidental use of excerpt/reproduction/dissemination for non-profit activity/purposes such as general/open scientific/educational discourse.

There is also a convention in scientific/technical literature/lectures/papers/treatises etc to allow the term "We" for passing allusions to the author(s) and/or the presenter(s) of said material/information, be they individuals or groups or incorporated 'entities/representatives' etc.

Trying to turn such conventional usage into some sort of 'gotcha!' case is self-defeating and demonstrates ignorance and/or malice in whomever is trying to do so.

Good luck and good thinking, everyone! Cheers. :)

Nov 10, 2015
RC, the graphs in question were taken by me, as part of a job. I own them, as well as all drawings.

The copyright (TXu000566258), is for the course material I sold to the Sandia Labs Library.

Nov 10, 2015
@ Really-Skippy. How you are Cher? I am a little better than good, thanks for asking.

Does that mean I can use a quote or two from your book as long as I give you the credit for saying it? Or would you rather I not tell anybody where I got him from?

Nov 10, 2015
Hi gkam. I trust all is well health-wise with you and yours?

That the material is yours anyway, it makes the attacks against you re that even more ignorant and malicious. You'd think these irrelevant internet hecklers would finally learn some sense of decorum and objectivity on a science forum. What are the chances?

Very busy, and running out of time for today's internet activity/discourse 'break'. Keep up the good work. See ya round, mate. :)

Nov 10, 2015
There is provision in copyright law that allows limited/incidental use of excerpt/reproduction/dissemination for non-profit activity/purposes such as general/open scientific/educational discourse
@RC
you CAN copy paste here as long as the source is noted & referenced (it is)
BUT
this is dependent upon the country and their laws as well, as some national copywrite laws are far more specific and requires certain legal loopholes to be met (like China)

Given that this is (per otto & the question) from the US, then the US copywrite laws apply, but Brit law may also be needed WRT the company (ScienceX). i don't know where the servers are for ScienceX or the listed page and quotes (relevant to access and rights as well)

International law will also apply as this is the internet and multiple parties from separate nations (and nationalities) are involved

Nov 11, 2015
a convention in scientific/technical literature/lectures/papers/treatises etc to allow the term "We" for passing allusions to the author(s) and/or the presenter(s) of said material/information, be they individuals or groups or incorporated 'entities/representatives' etc
But georges site is not scientific/technical literature/lectures/papers/treatises etc.

Nor is he an author(s) and/or the presenter(s) of scientific/technical literature/lectures/papers/treatises, be they individuals or groups or incorporated 'entities/representatives' etc

George is misrepresenting himself as someone who can provide professional services by instructing pros and non-pros on engineering. And if he actually did so as an independent party, he would be breaking the law.

He is also misrepresenting himself as part of a group capable of providing resources which as an individual he cannot.

Lucky for george, I suspect few people would be dumb enough to contract for such services.

Nov 11, 2015
the graphs in question were taken by me, as part of a job. I own them, as well as all drawings
Not unless you got specific written permission from the company you prepared them for.

Both the graphs themselves and the info contained therein are the property of the company that paid for them. This notice should be on the docs themselves and/or in a nondisclosure agreement or a contract you would have signed at the outset.

Georges site is very old. So is george. I suspect that he has already gotten in trouble for this, which may be why he is under continuing mental treatment down at the VA per his own admission.

George has no compunctions about breaking physorg site rules, nor lying and fabricating facts daily. Given the dozens of jobs he has had and lost, also by his own admission, he probably acted the same way out in the real world.

Fora like this are the last refuge of the psychopath, a place where they can finally do what they do with no fear of retribution.

Nov 11, 2015
RC, the graphs in question were taken by me, as part of a job. I own them, as well as all drawings.

The copyright (TXu000566258), is for the course material I sold to the Sandia Labs Library.
-And so we can regard this as a little monkey fist of lies unless you can substantiate it.

'Its true I tell you!!' -gkam

'No its not like your being an engr and your MS in environmental mgt' -otto

'But I won airman of the month!!' -cries gkam

'I am a member of the foundry guildmen!!'

'I built spy networks for macnamara!!!'

'My stuff is in the smithsonian'

'Big fucking deal. Elton johns shoes are in the smithsonian.' -says otto

You lie like a rug. IMO youre a psychopath.

Youre only here to talk TO yourself ABOUT yourself.' -says otto

'Im sure physorg only tolerates you for instructional purposes.' concludes otto

Nov 11, 2015
Hilarious sour grapes from a Neverwas.

Nov 11, 2015
Hilarious sour grapes
Well you lied about these;

-fallout is the main cause of lung cancer

-Pu is raining down on idaho

-dried manure is a major constituent of pollution in the central valley and is called volatile solids

-calories and BTUs are not different names for the same thing

-H2 explosions can cause molten, contaminated Pu to fission and throw debris 130km

-H2 cant detonate even when unconfined

-residential pools are commonly used to cool houses

-nitrogen oxides are all triple bonded

-clean coal plants are not currently running or being built

George kamburoff lied about all of these and dozens more.

Hilarious how you can fool yourself to think that you can lie here and get away with it.
from a Neverwas
Well I never was fired, let alone fired from a dozen or so jobs like you apparently were.

How come? Do you lie to yourself about why?

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