Now 'right moment' for carbon tax: IMF chief

October 8, 2015
IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde (L) and World Bank President Jim Yong Kim (R) participate in a panel discussion on clima
IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde (L) and World Bank President Jim Yong Kim (R) participate in a panel discussion on climate change on October 7, 2015 in Lima, Peru

The time is right for governments to introduce taxes on carbon emissions, which would help fight global warming and raise badly needed revenue, IMF chief Christine Lagarde said Wednesday.

"It is just the right moment to introduce carbon taxes," Lagarde said at the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank in Lima, Peru.

The issue is in the spotlight two months from a key United Nations conference in Paris tasked with delivering a comprehensive carbon-cutting pact to save the planet from the potentially catastrophic impact of .

Besides discouraging pollution, Lagarde said, taxing would have the added bonus of helping governments boost their revenues at a time when many countries have dipped heavily into their "fiscal buffers" to get through a prolonged rough patch for the .

"Finance ministers are looking for revenues. That's the fate of finance ministers. But it's particularly the case at the moment because many have already used a lot of their fiscal buffers... and are always in need of some fiscal buffers in order to fight the next crisis," she said.

Lagarde urged governments to tax rather than rely on emissions trading, a competing system already in place in Europe in which governments essentially issue permits to pollute that can then be traded on an open market.

"I know that a lot of people would rather do trading systems, but we believe that carbon taxation would be a lot better," she said.

Lagarde said revenues from carbon taxes could contribute to rich nations' funding target of $100 billion a year by 2020 to help poorer nations fight the impacts of climate change.

The world was still $38 billion short of that target last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said in a new report.

Lagarde said it was also the "right moment" to eliminate energy subsidies, which the IMF says will cost the world $5.3 trillion this year—6.5 percent of the global economy.

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gkam
2.1 / 5 (7) Oct 08, 2015
It is time the polluters either clean up or face serious sanctions. We now have the will, the reason, and the opportunity.
antigoracle
2.3 / 5 (6) Oct 08, 2015
We now have the will, the reason, and the opportunity.

We, as in not you, you pathological liar.
All your neighbours got solar panels, so what is your excuse?
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Oct 08, 2015
I predict the haters and deniers will go to filthy words and statements out of frustration. Look for it.
antigoracle
2.3 / 5 (6) Oct 08, 2015
I predict the haters and deniers will go to filthy words and statements out of frustration. Look for it.

I predict this pathological liar will never get those solar panels. So, don't look for it.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (5) Oct 08, 2015
I predict the haters and deniers will go to filthy words and statements out of frustration. Look for it
I predict that psychopaths will lie, cheat, and fabricate facts in order to get what they want, because they think they are fully entitled to do so.

Look for it in Georges every post.

IMO.

George why did you lie about having an MS in environmental management? Did you think that it would keep people from questioning your misuse of terms like 'volatile solids' and 'invent' which anyone with such a degree ought to know?

You really think the people here are that stupid?

George?
gkam
2.6 / 5 (5) Oct 08, 2015
I earned a Master of Science from the University of San Francisco (did you?), and even Ira has a copy of my thesis. I wrote it in conversational English, so non-technical folk like you and he can understand it, if you get up the guts to read it.

What is your education? Any at all? Are you really just a gamer, like you bragged, a coward hiding behind both a pseudonym and a coward's portal, SCARED of reality?

Your continual quotations from psychological sources are obvious screams for help. But we cannot help you get a spine, otto, you have to do it yourself.

I fear you will never have the guts or maturity to take responsibility as some of us do out of professionalism. You will continue to hide, cower behind your anonymity, . . and continue to throw your emotional tantrums.
Uncle Ira
3 / 5 (6) Oct 08, 2015
I earned a Master of Science from the University of San Francisco (did you?), and even Ira has a copy of my thesis. I wrote it in conversational English, so non-technical folk like you and he can understand it


You can call that thing a master thesis if you want to Cher. But it really is more like something a high school kid would write. You call it "conversational English", but all that means is it is not the kind of thesis that real master of science students would write and pass the class.

Why you don't just admit that your Master of the Science is for life experiences, not the Energy Management like you claimed. Not the Environment Management like you claim another place. Not the Electronic Engineering like you claimed another place.

The school says it is the "Non Disciplinary Studies" program for adult with "life experiences". You keep asking who I am, but that don't mean nothing from a person who is the faker.
gkam
2.6 / 5 (5) Oct 08, 2015
Is this the issue of the Carbon Tax, or is it another excuse for Ira to play his silly games?

Please go to facebook or twitter or the closest playground for your games.

It is time the polluters faced up to the damage they cause, instead of having us pay for it in health care and illness. That is the topic.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Oct 08, 2015
Is this the issue of the Carbon Tax, or is it another excuse for Ira to play his silly games?

Please go to facebook or twitter or the closest playground for your games.

It is time the polluters faced up to the damage they cause, instead of having us pay for it in health care and illness. That is the topic.
Lying about an MS is not a game. Its serious business.

It indicates you have serious mental problems.

It indicates you need to lie about your backround in order to feel worthwhile.

But as a rather poor liar, people quickly discover that conversing with you is a waste of time.

They cant trust you george.

Is this why you lost so many temp jobs?

This is where you lied about your MS, and where ira skillfully exposed you.
http://phys.org/n...ack.html
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (4) Oct 08, 2015
Liars like yourself who are too stupid to realize how transparent they are, disgust people. How could you have not learned this in 72 years???

"The presence or absence of conscience is a deep human division, arguably more significant than intelligence, race, or even gender.

"What differentiates a sociopath who lives off the labors of others from one who occasionally robs convenience stores, or from one who is a contemporary robber baron - or what makes the difference betwen an ordinary bully and a sociopathic murderer - is nothing more than social status, drive, intellect, blood lust, or simple opportunity.

"What distinguishes all of these people from the rest of us is an utterly empty hole in the psyche, where there should be the most evolved of all humanizing functions."

I can imagine george babysitting his grandkids
https://www.youtu..._4_7cdn0

-But of course I could be way off base.
gkam
2 / 5 (4) Oct 08, 2015


Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.

Eleanor Roosevelt
US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

It's worth repeating.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Oct 08, 2015
Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people.

Eleanor Roosevelt
US diplomat & reformer (1884 - 1962)

It's worth repeating.
-And george comes here mostly to talk about himself. Does that mean he has no mind at all?

Thats obvious. And disgusting.

Its mostly lies, exaggerations, and forged facts.

Georges bulbous ego thinks people talk about him because he is so exceptional

And he may be right - I for one have not encountered such a sicko as this.

-Its worth repeating.
gkam
2 / 5 (4) Oct 08, 2015
Taxing carbon can help us pay for the healthcare we will need because of using it.
leetennant
5 / 5 (5) Oct 08, 2015
The "right moment" for carbon taxes was about 5 years ago but I guess we'll take what we can get. My favourite political moment was when my Australian compatriots voted out a government who introduced an ETS that brought in income and instead voted for a farce called "Direct Action" that involved giving billions of dollars in taxpayer funds to large corporations. And not even the dumbest thing they voted for in the last election.

So bring it on.
ForFreeMinds
1 / 5 (5) Oct 08, 2015
Greedy people in government always feel it's the right time to take more of the fruits of our labor, rather than laboring themselves in producing goods and services for which people would pay them. Just like criminals always feel its the right time to steal from others. And they can do it because they've got the best guns.
gkam
2.6 / 5 (5) Oct 08, 2015
"Greedy people in government always feel it's the right time to take more of the fruits of our labor, . . . (sob!), . . (snivel), . . "
Returners
1 / 5 (1) Oct 08, 2015
Lagarde said it was also the "right moment" to eliminate energy subsidies, which the IMF says will cost the world $5.3 trillion this year—6.5 percent of the global economy.


This is impractical in the U.S. and probably Russia and China as well, because we cover a lot of territory, necessarily in transporting our crops and other resources and in trading our tech and chemical products to other nations who want them. Ultimately the pollution we do create is offset by the increase in quality of life and the increase in mean life expectancy which our nation contributes through the medical industry and other industries.

Removing all subsidies from fossil fuels in the U.S, and then further carbon taxing them will mean that probably another 15% of people would no longer be able to afford an automobile of their own and they'd lose their job for that reason alone in most cases, as phone and automobile is first job interview question anyone asks.
Returners
1 / 5 (2) Oct 08, 2015
Haven't seen anything yet though...

Carbon tax on Diesel? The cost of farming and of transporting produce would go through the roof. (based on the rates I've seen proposed by some nations in the past).

Instead of spending these tax monies in the nation where they are paid in order to subsidize upgrades to wind, solar, and hydro, you fools want to spend it in african and middle eastern nations where half the population wants to slaughter Americans and Europeans.

Has everyone in western civilization government lost their damned minds? Or does the media only cover the dumbest leaders?

I'm gonna assume that cutting lumber will also be considered a carbon tax, since deforestation is considered a form of "emissions", which is itself bullshit in most cases. The U.S. also exports lumber in some cases, so I'm sure the U.N. or the IPCC will want to carbon tax that too.

Carbon tax the air we breathe too. We each produce about a half ton CO2 per year, not counting flatulence.
Returners
1 / 5 (2) Oct 08, 2015
At the $60 per ton carbon tax rate proposed by the Europeans, the cost of operating a semi goes up by 4 cents per mile on first order, without considering any second-order feedbacks which may push it up a few more cents per mile,since it costs fuel trucks another 4 cents per mile to deliver fuel to fuel stations.

The cost of operating barges and container ships to deliver grain or other products goes up astronomically, about 75 cents per second, or about $32,000 per SHIFT just in increased taxes on their FUEL.

The only thing this will do is severely inflate currency and impoverish the lower 80% of the population in even the most developed nations....which may well be the goal of these ultra-progressives anyway.
Returners
1 / 5 (1) Oct 08, 2015
Hay for cattle?

Needs diesel for tractor for sowing seed and fertilizer.
Needs diesel for tractor for towing cutter.
Needs diesel for tractor for towing fluffer (optional I guess).
Needs diesel for tractor for towing rake (hay must air out before bailing to prevent mildew, etc).
Needs diesel for tractor for bailing.

The cost of hay would probably go up a couple dollars a bail, which in turn will make the price of meat go up, which in turn drives down demand for meat, but then makes the price of everything else go up, etc.
But this effects all farming....wheat...corn...beans... squash...carrots...lettuce...tomato...anything like that.

Who suffers?
ex-patriated facebook founders? no. This is chump change to them, and they don't pay taxes anyway.
Other millionaires? No. A few hundred or a few thousand extra dollars a year in taxes doesn't effect them.

Normal people get screwed. That's right. Teh socialists claim to want to help normal people, but fuck them instead.
Returners
1 / 5 (1) Oct 08, 2015
That's right, liberals. The people hurt worst by a carbon tax are normal people and poor people. You think you're going to help those africans with this? Why do they deserve a payout more than the U.S. normal people; workers who helped produce the products and services we provide anyway?

Guess what? The U.S. has laws preventing us from being subject to agreements which undermine our sovereignty, thankfully. Obama has committed treason in his agreement with Iran, but the Senate has too many dummycrats to prosecute him.

Hopefully the next president will be strong on U.S. sovereignty and defense powers, instead of an weak muslim apologist like Obama.

So, when you tax shipping/trucking companies, farmers, fishers, etc for their fuel the only thing that happens is they adjust their prices to reflect that tax and the currency inflates, and the middle and lower class people get screwed.

I don't even want to think about what this does to northern state heating bills.
RichTheEngineer
1 / 5 (2) Oct 08, 2015
Sounds like elites are going broke, so IMF wants to raise taxes globally. Nothing to do with climate control, everything to do with keeping "elites" elite.
Returners
1 / 5 (1) Oct 08, 2015
You'll make people in New England and Chicago have to choose between eating dinner or running their furnace for the night in Winter, as this sort of legislation could potentially double the cost of heating a home or business northern U.S. state in winter.

Resurfacing a road? Gotta carbon tax that asphault or concrete.
Making a sea wall or levee? Gotta carbon tax it too.

I can list scores and scores of things this would absolutely cripple and it's just ridiculous that these people don't get that. It doesn't do anything beneficial.
howhot2
5 / 5 (2) Oct 08, 2015
@uncle Ira, and @gkam, I don't want to butt in, but you all are on the same side of the AGW debate and both are pro-science, fact, and logic. But you have some raging feud going on about credentials? If that's the jist of it, in a loose open forum like this where anyone can speak their mind, what does it matter? Gkam says he has a Master's and based on what I have read from the scattered forum entries, he probably does, and if not, he deserves one for fighting back against the denier goon squad as well as he has. You do too Ira and I've always appreciated your forum support. There are certain people I just instantly give 1's to, like my good friend @R2 (the Rygg) and that's not for being stupid (although he is pretty stupid on climate change) but because I disagree with all that he stands for. He.is so misguilded. My good friend @antigoracle also gits an instant 1 because I've never heard anything from him that wasn't crap.

Education is what you make of it. Shake hands and make up
howhot2
5 / 5 (1) Oct 08, 2015
Continuing; as people of science we will admit when we are wrong, but it might take *A LOT OF CONVINCING* before our logic or reasoning methods will accept the facts. I'm still a hold out for good old fashion P&F cold fusion! If you ask me, I will site 100's of papers and tell you exactly why I think why. However, what makes my claim as good as your's is deductive reasoning. I know that my position on CF doesn't score the brownie points with some of my colleges on this forum, but hay!

With climate change, the AGWite concept and all of that, we know from science what is causing the problems. It's not just science, but very detailed and extremely well measured data that supports extensive and detailed theory and visa-versa. Science is not as stupid as @Antigoracle or the denier goon squad would think. That and the obvious; that republicans have taken the position that climate change is fiction showing that they are anti-science, and kind of delusional on the logic of things.
antigoracle
1 / 5 (1) Oct 09, 2015
Lagarde said revenues from carbon taxes could contribute to rich nations' funding target of $100 billion a year by 2020 to help poorer nations fight the impacts of climate change.

If anyone believes the IMF is about taking from the rich to help the poor, then think again. The IMF and carbon tax is about ending poverty but ending the poor.
antigoracle
1 / 5 (1) Oct 09, 2015
Lagarde said revenues from carbon taxes could contribute to rich nations' funding target of $100 billion a year by 2020 to help poorer nations fight the impacts of climate change.

If anyone believes the IMF is about taking from the rich to help the poor, then think again. The IMF and carbon tax is NOT about ending poverty but ending the poor.
howhot2
5 / 5 (2) Oct 09, 2015
I thing @antigoracle, the IMF is just saying that the world economy can handle the financial burden of transitioning from a world with out a cap/and/trade tax to one that does. It's a big picture, global statement and not a question about how the poor will manage.

The poor will probably do better if the IMF actions mediate global warming (if the poor was even your concern). You have sea level rise, temperature extremes, food and agriculture issues if you ignore global warming and that directly impacts the poor the hardest.

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