We need new jobs as the machines do more of our work

We need new jobs as the machines do more of our work
New thinking the way to job creation for people in the 21st century. Credit: Flickr/Tim Robinson, CC BY-NC-ND

We might be living longer than ever before, but the Australian government's plan to keep older people in the workforce may not be that easy.

The predictions are that by 2055 the nation will have a of 39.7 million people with the number of people aged 65 and over expected to double, a testament to healthier lifestyles and medical science.

Ageing populations are expensive, though. To offset the rising costs, governments are encouraging healthy to postpone retirement and keep working, at least until their 70s, and perhaps beyond.

But are not easy to come by these days. Youth unemployment in Australia is 4.5 times higher than the general rate, so keeping older workers in their jobs will not be helping to reduce .

As the machines take over

Also contributing to the scarcity of jobs is the rising trend of replacing human workers.

An Oxford University study published in 2013 found that 47% of jobs in the United States could be computerised within two decades. Transport, logistics and office roles were most likely to come under threat, the study authors found.

Robots will also do jobs that humans do not want to do; repetitive jobs, tedious jobs, unpleasant ones like emptying bed-pans in hospitals and so on.

Automation will create new categories of jobs. This is good news for younger workers who may be perceived by employers as being more willing and able to learn new skills.

As if prospects are not bleak enough, the of 3D printing is maturing rapidly. A team at Monash University have printed two fully functional jet engines. Such breakthroughs are becoming more common.

The implications of this new technology amount to another industrial revolution, with all of the corresponding impacts this will have on people working in industries such as manufacturing and logistics, to mention only two.

Goods that are currently made en masse in factories and transported over long distances to the consumer will increasingly be made locally (even in space), on-demand and at relatively low cost. A sustainable approach to making things.

Given what's already possible with 3D printing, perhaps in five to ten years this technology will be mature enough to make almost anything.

Even the building industry will come under pressure. In China, industrial scale printers are producing rows of houses and apartments out of recycled materials in a matter of days.

Policy solutions

For every problem, there is a solution. Although some problems are so complex that they qualify as a "wicked problem". This is what faces policy makers trying to solve the problem of falling employment and rising social welfare costs.

We need programs that allow the unemployed of any age to re-skill for the jobs that are available now and in the future. An essential part of this re-skilling should be to teach innovation-oriented thinking and willingness to embrace change, or at least the futility of resisting it.

One low-hanging fruit approach for governments everywhere is to unlock more of the value contained in Open Data. This is data, such as demographic and economic data, collected by governments and others that is freely available for anyone to create value from in ways limited only by their imagination.

So how much value is there in this open data? Globally, the McKinsey & Company consultancy group estimates a staggering US$3 trillion annually.

The previous Newman-government in Queensland recognised the value in its open data in "job creation".

Globally, the release of data has driven innovation, growth and job creation by the private sector, and directly benefited the community.

Think globally, act locally

Community-level enterprises could use local people and resources to produce goods and services that are marketed to the whole world using the powerful enabler of internet technology. Open data, either at a local or state level, is just one possibility for community entrepreneurs.

With small enterprise-friendly government policies, regional communities could unlock more of their unique potential, creating prosperity in the process. This would be great for the long-term survival of many shrinking regional communities.

In the face of all these pressures, it would be difficult not to conclude that economies at national and international levels are going to need restructuring if they are to continue to function. Accessing some of the employment potential and the trillions of dollars contained in open data is a good place to start, but there is much more to be done.

The advent of 3D printing, rising automation, competing with younger ones – these factors are creating a widening credibility gap that somehow it will all work out for the best.

X-prize thinking

There is no doubt that we face big challenges as we go forward into the 21st century. But we humans are an adaptable species. We have dealt with bigger survival challenges than how to restructure our economies to create employment in an age of automation.

As Peter Diamandis of the X-Prize Foundation points out, at no time in our history have we had the power of exponential technology plus the connected minds of billions of people around the world with which to solve these grand challenges.

It is the people with the drive and imagination to make good use of these tools who will lead us into the future.


Explore further

More STEM education won't protect our jobs from robots

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May 15, 2015
Get the govt out of the way.
A woman wanted to create a job for herself braiding hair into corn rows.
The state demanded she spend months and hundreds of dollars to obtain a cosmetology license.
Millions of people have ideas to create new jobs for themselves, but are prevented by a Regulatory State working at the behest of those who would compete with these new entrepreneurs.

"They had 20,000 customers, employed 10 people and took in half a million dollars a year. Some women came from as far away as Connecticut, six hours away, to have their hair braided by Cornrows & Co. "
"Local bureaucrats ordered Uqdah to cease and desist, or be "subject to criminal prosecution." Why? Because he didn't have a license. "
http://townhall.c...age/full

May 15, 2015
"In this case, Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who is obeying the wishes of every large cosmetics corporation and siccing the Food and Drug Administration on 300,000 primarily woman-owned handmade soap and lotion businesses - small potatoes to a $60 billion industry but she is doing it for them just the same."
"Look at the list of corporate behemoths behind this: Unilever, Procter & Gamble, Johnson & Johnson - and the Personal Care Products Council, which is funded by those corporations plus 600 more. Naturally, Environmental Working Group (EWG - famous for their war on poor people and food science) also signed on, since it gives them a reason to take money from chemical companies"
http://www.scienc...p-155479

The fascist govt is trying to destroy 300,000 jobs so robots can do it.

May 15, 2015
The new jobs will be in changes, development, renewal. Ryggy wants all of us to try to do it all by ourselves, so it fits his theories of selfishness, but the rest of us understand the power of working together. It is called Civilization.

May 15, 2015
The military industrial complex is the height of the corporate cronyism that Ryggy's article talks about.


No, it's not.

It's the industries that can get the EPA or the FDA or the SEC or ...to shut down the competition.
The DoD bends over backwards to promote competition to the point where fraud occurs in preferred minority owned businesses.
I am supposed to apply for government permission - ludicrous.

Yet you still support the Regulatory state that would shut down your brewery at the behest of Heineken.
In for a penny, in for a pound.

May 15, 2015
You have no concept of the possibility that there may be a middle ground


There is no such thing with the Regulatory State. Like all parasites, they will suck their hosts dry (literally in California) as we see in 'liberal' cities and states around the US.

Let's get rid of the military industrial behemoth

That is not holding back entrepreneurs.

How do you plan to stop the Muslims in UK and in the Middle East that want to kill you when they have all the weapons and you have disarmed yourself?

May 15, 2015
through minimalist regulatory systems,


What is that?

How do you guarantee minimalism?

Competition and customers do a far better job of regulating than any govt agent.

May 15, 2015
Ryggy wil always fail to appreciate the primary dichotomy inherent in the capitalist system - capitalism thrives on competition, but capitalists themselves hate competition.

And so capitalists wil constantly be trying to subvert the very system which gave them existence, by cheating, bribing, and colluding. Regulators, being defensive in nature, cannot keep up with predators watching at their leisure for new opportunities and loopholes.

Capitalism like democracy is necessary and vital but they must both be Controlled and Manipulated by Forces beyond and above what the participants are aware of, or they will both collapse into despotism.

Like war, the only way they can be made to benefit and not to destroy, is if Leaders above a certain level are both on the same Side and both working toward a common End.

May 15, 2015
and started engaging politically in a different way.

With force?
That's what has been proven to work with Islam.

Global disarmament would be a great goal - then the terrorists would not have access to high powered weaponry


Ban guns, people kill with knives. Do you cut of their hands so fists can't be used?
Currently we cultivate an ethic of excessive government - and dependence of big systems.

Yes, thanks to 'progressive'/socialists and their fellow travelers.
Corporations will cut corners - in order to gain an economic advantage. It is baked in.

And their competition will eat their lunch when they do. It's been proven over and over and over and over....
Unless they get a pass from the govt. Some kind of monopoly or regulation that limits competition.

May 15, 2015
We had free market Capitalism. It resulted in wage slavery, firing people who complained about it because "there was someone to take their place who didn't want to starve to death". It resulted in Sweatshops with no building codes until they burned down with hundreds of people inside. It worked people to death. Capitalism doesn't care about the components of the system, not the environment, not the workers, not the waste at the beginning, middle, or end of the production process. There is only the Mighty Dollar, and the Ends Justify the Means. That's why it doesn't really work, and needs SOME government interference to make things safer, consistent, and fair-ish. I agree that there's a little bit too much, and most of the regulation is pretty inane. Look at the document posting laws for example, you could be fined $15,000+ as a small business if you don't put up a poster regaling employees with "their rights"... such as could be looked up on the internet in about 5 minutes.

May 15, 2015
We had free market Capitalism.

When?

Like when Henry Ford reduced hours and increased wages in 1914?
He did it to improve productivity because he kept losing employees and re-training was costly.

Capitalism doesn't care about the components of the system,

No components, no system, no business, no profits.
Capitalists care more about their system than any bureaucrat or union boss that wants to plunder the profits.

May 15, 2015
Wither thing is that capitalists as they age become more reluctant to tolerate competition, something Ryggy can probably appreciate.

They work hard in the beginning establishing their companies and running off the competition. As they age they travel in certain exclusive social circles, developing relationships with Iike-minded people who are just as eager as they are to limit challenges to their wealth.

And so they will naturally collude to cheat and bribe and fix.

This is an expression of the tribal dynamic - internal altruism in conjunction with external animosity. It is not a crime to prey on other tribes and on outsiders who threaten your tribe. It is admirable and encouraged and rewarded.

May 15, 2015
The tribal dynamic is what made us human. It is based on elimination of the competition. Religion discovered how to maximize this dynamic for the purpose of outgrowing and overrunning the competition.

That's why it's laughable when capitalists like Ryggy profess their belief in god. God is the one who tells them that they alone have the right to be fruitful and multiply, and to fill up the earth exclusively with believers.

Religion also hates competition and was designed to eliminate it. This only makes it easier for capitalists to believe they that have the god-given right to do the same, and that it the only good, and right, and proper thing to do.

May 15, 2015
Wither? Damn spellcheck. 'The other'

Ryggy might also agree that organized crime is one of the best examples of free market capitalism. But families/tribes will again naturally collude to divide the territory to minimize conflict, and to cooperate to run off outsiders.

And of course they will bribe and extort and steal and otherwise victimize outsiders. Capitalists all do this.

May 15, 2015
New jobs eh!
I'm sure the machines will eventually find jobs for us.

May 15, 2015
"In its sixth season, "Shark Tank" has become a TV game-changer and cultural phenomenon. The show is poised to celebrate its 100th episode (an important milestone when it comes to syndication), while even its repeats are breaking CNBC records, with close to half a million viewers per episode.

The entrepreneurial competition show has become so hot that ABC is now working on a spinoff "Beyond the Tank," a companion show that follows the next stage of a start-up, showing which ones are in the black and which ones are seeing red."

http://www.thewra...anchise/


May 15, 2015
Hey onions, perhaps you should replace green with dense, in your name.
I was alluding to AI and the robots eventually dominating us.

May 15, 2015
Crony 'capitalists' are not capitalists. They are socialists.

power of the monopoly


Monopolies can only exist with govt sanction. Like the British East India Company.

Why do you support such socialism?

May 15, 2015
I think that is questionable


When Islam had the power, they invaded Europe to France.
Then the Christians attacked and pushed them back and they stayed for centuries.
They couldn't even get organized enough to force the Jews out of Israel in 1949.
They respect force because they use force and they are used to submitting, the meaning of Islam.


May 15, 2015
"If you are an employer with over 500 employees in Connecticut and you hire someone for less than $15/hr you must now pay a tax of one dollar for each hour your employee works.

It's a shakedown from the state wrapped in the banner of "wage justice." It's a revenue stream for government and another barrier to employment for low skilled workers.

Just another reason people and business continue to leave the Northeast."
http://www.agains...workers/

May 15, 2015
"Best Cities to Start a Business
1. Shreveport, LA
2. Tulsa, OK
3. Springfield, MO
4. Chattanooga, TN
5. Jackson, MS
6. Sioux Falls, SD
7. Memphis, TN
8. Augusta, GA
9. Greensboro, NC
10. Columbus, GA"

"Worst Cities to Start a Business
141. Anaheim, CA
142. San Jose, CA
143. Santa Ana, CA
144. Oakland, CA
145. Ontario, CA
146. Fremont, CA
147. Yonkers, NY
148. Garden Grove, CA
149. Jersey City, NJ
150. Newark, NJ"

http://www.econom...art.html

May 15, 2015
@riggie Competition and customers do a far better job of regulating than any govt agent.
Yes. The management of public resources is where the corruption largely begins. Depopulation must be taken more seriously, as the present Earth population is only sustainable with petroleum and natural gas
Crony 'capitalists' are not capitalists. They are socialists.
Socialism==zionism==Bolshevism

May 15, 2015
"Here are five things real leaders do, inspired by the leadership of Henry Ford (along with some of his great quotes).
1. Listen
2. Assess

"A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business."

3 + 4. Improve and take action

"You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do."
{Like Obama tried to do.}

5. Expect

"Quality means doing it right when nobody is looking."

http://www.entrep...e/245532

May 15, 2015
I do support a regulatory envirnoment that protects the environment - and also promotes micro businesses


Socialist.

You want state coercion to be used to affect what YOU want at the expense of others.

I want state power to be limited to protecting the lives and property of each individual and NOT trying to force others to live the way YOU want them to live.

Bastiat said the state can plunder the few, plunder the many, or plunder no one.
I support the last. You support the first.

May 16, 2015
""A woman in Florida is being harassed by the government for simply going off the grid and refusing to use city power and water. They've threatened her with having a month to "plug in" or face the consequences."
http://joeforamer...-grid/#"

I want the government to be involved in the protection of the envirnoment. I


Why do you trust bureaucrats, who are seldom fired for failure, to protect the environment?

support raising taxes - to build an army


National defense is an extension of personal defense which each individual pays, fees for service.

May 16, 2015
"Dare to reform the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and you are sure to be attacked. It's as certain as death, taxes or EPA regulatory overreach.

Case in point: Rep. Sam Johnson (R-Texas) recently introduced a bill to address egregious EPA waste and abuse. Immediately, he was denounced as trying to "gut" the agency. In reality, Johnson's bill is a modest attempt to keep the EPA from gutting the economy and wasting taxpayer dollars."
"When nearly 40 percent of the nation's population lives in areas that haven't met the current standard, it's premature to adopt an even more stringent standard."
"And the benefits of a tighter standard are far from clear"
"When Congress passed the Clean Air Act, it never envisioned that carbon dioxide would be regulated."
http://thehill.co...-the-epa
What happens with unaccountable bureaucrats.

May 16, 2015
We do not need a military that is bigger than every other military in the world combined.


What happened when the US, or UK, did NOT have the largest military in the world?

Millions died and were murdered.

French and UK punishment of Germany under Treaty of Versailles led directly to the rise of the national socialists in Germany. UK was too weak to respond leading to Dunkirk and begging the USA to help. But the USA had gutted its military after WWI and had to rebuild after being attacked by Japan.

Like Obama, greenie wants to check out of the world and let Russia, China, North Korea, Iran have larger military forces. And why not, greenie trusts socialists as he is simpatico with state power.


May 16, 2015
Ryggy, please go away.

But don't use our roads.

May 16, 2015
Where did Gaddafi get his arsenal


Gaddafi gave up his nuclear weapons, and then Obama had him killed.

Not a very good negotiating tactic: give up your WMD and then we will kill you.

governments pay for the cost of developing weapons systems -


Defense, protection of private property, is a legitimate function of the state.

There is not much of a market for air to air missiles so the Navy developed the AIM-9.


May 16, 2015
How many died in Vietnam


How many died from socialism, in the 20th century? Hundreds of millions murdered by state.

China: 76,000,000
USSR: 62,000,000
Germany: 21,000,000
Japan: 5,000,000
Cambodia: 2,000,000
Vietnam: 1,600,000
UK: 816,000

https://www.hawai...20TH.HTM


May 16, 2015
"Perhaps of more concern to the United States and its allies, over the course of his decades of rule Qaddafi had developed or tried to develop an unsettling array of weapons of mass destruction.

Late on the night of December 19, 2003, however, Qaddafi treated the world to a rare reversal of form, confirming that Libya had decided to abandon its illicit effort to acquire a nuclear bomb, its chemical weapons stocks, and all of its longer-range missiles. "

http://thebulleti...-wmd7834

"Ominously for the cause of nonproliferation, dictators may draw the conclusion that despots with nuclear weapons are safe, but those without them will be attacked. The American decision to "lead from behind" in the overthrow of Muammar Qaddafi may haunt for decades efforts to stem the spread of nuclear weapons."
http://thebulleti...-wmd7848

May 16, 2015
"Between 1948 and 1960 the British military fought what is conventionally called the "emergency" or "counter-insurgency" campaign in Malaya, a British colony until independence in 1957. The declassified files reveal that Britain resorted to very brutal measures in the war, including widespread aerial bombing and the use of a forerunner to modern cluster bombs. Britain also set up a grotesque "resettlement" programme that provided a model for the US's horrific "strategic hamlet" programmes in Vietnam. It also used chemical agents from which the US may again have drawn lessons in its use of agent orange.

Defending the right of exploitation

British planners' primary concern was to enable British business to exploit Malayan economic resources."

https://markcurti...1948-60/

Because the Brits won in Malaysia, there is little criticism of their atrocities for Empire.

May 16, 2015
How many died for God?

Millions fewer than for socialism.

support a democratic system of government.


How can you when you want govt agents to force everyone to buy the 'correct' light bulb and toilet?

May 17, 2015
There is no way you can support that assertion.


https://www.hawai...HAP3.HTM

Why does it matter to you to tally up numbers anyway. Wrong is wrong. Genocide is genocide.


Because socialists give themselves a pass for their hundreds of millions murdered by Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Pot, .....
Or the millions of babies murdered every year. Especially by minorities just as the eugenicist Sanger wanted.

No I don't. Stop making shit up.


You support the EPA, or equivalent, which is forcing people to by toilets and light bulbs they don't want to buy.


May 17, 2015
Wrong is wrong


Judeo-Christian doctrine, Ten Commandments, state murder and theft are absolutely wrong.

If Christians and Jews violate the doctrine of their faith they are wrong.

Socialist doctrine does not declare murder and theft are absolutely wrong as human rights are not absolute.

Are socialists wrong for murder and plunder in the name of the state?

May 17, 2015
"The Environmental Protection Agency and the Army Corps of Engineers have proposed a new rule to define "waters of the United States." This definition is supposed to clarify what "waters" are covered under the Clean Water Act and therefore what these two agencies can regulate."
"Their proposal could cover almost any type of water. Almost all ditches, including man-made ditches, could be regulated. Depressions in land that only sometimes have water in them could be deemed a tributary and covered under the rule, even if the depression is bone-dry almost every day of the year. "
"Common activities, from farming to home building, could require a permit. "
{This is govt control of private property: Socialism.}

http://dailysigna...facebook

May 17, 2015
I asked if you know where he got his arsenal.


"Libya's main partner in the nuclear field, however, was the Soviet Union. A small (ten megawatt) Soviet-supplied reactor began operation in Tajura (outside Tripoli) in 1981. Three years later, a research center was opened at the same site staffed by 750 Libyan specialists and technicians aided by Soviet staff. "
"Libya ordered a pilot scale uranium conversion facility in 1984. A Japanese company supplied Libya with the technology. The sale was apparently arranged directly with the Japanese instead of through middlemen. "
"On 19 December 2003 Libya agreed to destroy all of its chemical, nuclear, and biological weapons."
http://www.global...lear.htm

"What Kim Jong-Il Learned from Qaddafi's Fall: Never Disarm "

http://www.theatl.../247192/

May 17, 2015
one can support some activities of a particular agency - but not all the activities of that agency.


So you lie. Wrong is not wrong. 'Wrong' is subjective.
The EPA is not wrong if it plunders property for reasons greenie supports.

Compromise with evil, evil wins.

May 17, 2015
You cannot outdo Ryggy, he is an autoresponding troll, stuffed with endless cut-and-paste entries by cranks.

May 17, 2015
Do you not understand that one can support the clean air act - but not regulations that require me to ask permission to brew a gallon of beer?


"Mr. MacKie said the E.P.A. would likely take the position that its PSD regulations also cover so-called "biogenic" CO2 processes, including the natural fermentation of yeast from rising bread dough. "
http://www.baking...px?cck=1

Or CO2 produced by beer fermentation.

There is no reason why the EPA can't force home brewers to capture the CO2 created from making beer under the Clean Air Act.

What about the Vietnam War? Would anyone care about Vietnam had the US adopted the tactics the Brits used in Malaysia and forced the North to surrender after their failed Tet Offensive?

I'm sure the millions of Vietnamese who were betrayed by US abandonment wished they would have fought to win.

May 17, 2015
The tangled web created by the socialist regulatory state:

"A battle is brewing in the beer industry over a new regulation from the Environmental Protection Agency that spells out the agency's authority to regulate bodies of water.

Dozens of small craft brewers, such as Sierra Nevada and New Belgium, are rallying behind the EPA's proposed Waters of the U.S. rule, arguing it will help ensure that they have clean water for their products."
"But farmers who supply beer ingredients like barley, wheat and hops, say the rule has the potential to massively cut production on their lands, raising beer prices in the process."
http://thehill.co...epa-rule

May 17, 2015
Ms. Jackson said the proposed rule had been written to exempt small businesses, farms, large office buildings and other relatively small sources of carbon dioxide emissions.


Which would not be worth the paper its written on when the govt arbitrarily changes.

When the income tax was passed, it was only going to impact the very top earners. Another govt lie.

You're an idiot.

Your are a fool.

May 17, 2015
as the U.S. wrong in waging a war in Vietnam -


No. It was wrong to engage without the objective of winning.

And because the 'liberals' refused to win, millions of Cambodians were murdered.

Had Truman followed the advice of MacArthur, North Korea would not exist and millions would not have been starved and tortured by the socialists.
But this is what happens when the good guys unilaterally disarm and demobilize in the face of evil.

May 17, 2015
Back to the article:

"the issue is not service jobs versus manufacturing jobs, but low-value-added services versus high-value-added services. There's no need to bemoan the loss of "manufacturing jobs" or celebrate their return. No need to flip out over flipping burgers. All jobs are services."
"
Looking at all jobs as services brings into focus what may be of greater concern: whether jobs on the whole are becoming more or less value productive. The problem, if it is a problem, should not be framed in terms of working in manufacturing or in service. The question is whether people who want to work and earn more have the skills that match the requirements for such jobs. If the answer is no, then that may be a problem."
http://fee.org/fr...services

May 17, 2015
of course we intended to win


No, we did not.
They were not willing to do what it takes.
Same for North Korea and the same goes today.

When your enemy is retreating, you follow until he surrenders or is destroyed. MacArthur advocated pursuit of the enemy across the Yalu River into China.
When a declaration of war is declared by Congress, it forces other nations to declare their intentions. China would have had to choose sides and not hide behind the UN.
If a declaration of war been made on North Vietnam, pursuit over borders would have been justified.
no regard for the lives of others


Greenie doesn't seem to mind the millions murdered by Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot since as he defends their actions in Korea and Vietnam.

May 17, 2015
""I called for reinforcements, but was informed reinforcements were not available.I made clear that if not permitted to destroy the enemy build-up north of the Yalu; if not permitted to utilized the friendly Chinese forces of some 600,000 men on Formosa; if not permitted to blockade the China coast to prevent the Chinese Reds from getting succor from without; and if there were to be no hope of major reinforcements, the position of the command from the military standpoint forbade victory.""
""There are some who for varying reasons would appease Red China.

They are blind to history's clear lesson. For history teaches with unmistakable emphasis that appeasement but begets new and bloodier war."

http://www.freere...36/posts

May 18, 2015
The socialist clean air act:

"The whole scheme of cooperative federal-state regulations also raises major constitutional questions with. When the EPA says to the states, in effect, "develop a plan to implement our new regulation, or we will impose a federal plan, and you won't like it," it is inherently coercive. But that's the way the Clean Air Act is structured, along with a host of other federal programs. "
http://www.theatl.../393389/

May 18, 2015
"With the successful Pusan Perimeter holding action, the victory set in motion the moves which would shape the remainder of the war. MacArthur and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, pushed by US leaders in Washington, decided to aggressively pursue the shattered North Korean People's Army into North Korea. The Eighth Army was ordered to advance as far north as possible to Manchuria and North Korea's border with China, with the primary objective of destroying what remained of the North Korean Army and the secondary objective of uniting all of Korea under Syngman Rhee.[237] This agitated China, which threatened that it would "not stand aside should the imperialists wantonly invade the territory of their neighbor.""

And the UN backed down from China and the US did not really want to unite Korea.
Ike brought the North to negotiate by bombing their irrigation dams.
As noted, Mac wanted to cut off Chinese supply lines and use Taiwan's forces.

May 18, 2015
rygge: you believe that the legitimate role of government is to protect private property.
When a company pollutes the air, they are damaging my private property (my health, value of my home, etc.) Therefore the legitimate role of government is to restrict one private entity (a company releasing pollution) from damaging the property of another private entity (my property).

If the company is one state upwind from me, and they damage my property... then they've still damaged my property and are still liable for that damage, are they not?

The EPA exists to protect the property of others. They exist to *prevent* the property damage from occurring in the first place rather than damage done and years of litigation to maybe extract some financial settlement that doesn't actually fix the damage caused.

Environmentalism is first and foremost about the protection of all private property. Those who are rich (corporations) have no more rights than those who are not (individuals).

May 18, 2015
"The shock of those initial disasters still reverberates throughout the U.S. Army more than four decades later. After the end of the Cold War in 1991, the watchwords of Army Chief of Staff General Gordon Sullivan were 'Remember Task Force Smith,' a warning not to let the Army again become the hollow force of 1950 that paid in blood for America's unpreparedness."
"As Time magazine put it, 'The U.S. expended ammunition the way the Chinese expended men.' After that success, the United States was in good position to retake the offensive and sweep the CCF from Korea. But Washington ordered EUSA to maintain its defensive posture, for U.S. military policy had changed from rollback and liberation to containment."
http://www.histor...tive.htm

May 18, 2015
The EPA exists to protect the property of others.


No, it does not.
It exist to control the property of others.
years of litigation


Why years of litigation?

Those who are rich (corporations) have no more rights than those who are not (individuals).

But they can afford to hire politicians that write EPA laws or hire lawyers to fight EPA laws.
And the beneficiaries are the bureaucrats and politicians.
Change to common law practices where the state enforces arbitrator's decision. Someone is polluting your air? Sue them. Under common law it's a straight forward decision. Does the exhaust cross on to your property, yes or no. No wrangling over damages or harm.
It's up to the offender to stop his offense or compensate for damages. Maye it will force a local factory out business destroying jobs.
And this is why business and state like the EPA. It's a license to pollute.

May 18, 2015
Rygge, getting money back after damage is done doesn't affect the damage in the first place. If I shoot your loved one, no matter how much I pay you, their life is not coming back. If you pollute my air, and my health suffers, no matter how much you pay me, I may not get my health back.

Then, what if you can afford to buy a team of lawyers who can find a technicality about why you didn't precisely cause me harm. It isn't you that damaged my property value by changing the climate it's located in, that's a market readjustment to current weather conditions. There's no guarantees that courts will award penalties correctly or proportionally.

We don't sue thieves who steal property, we subject them to laws and a criminal justice system to prevent property theft. We shouldn't have to sue for the environment, we should prevent environmental damage to property in the first place.

May 18, 2015
We don't sue thieves who steal property, we subject them to laws and a criminal justice system to prevent property theft.


What? Prosecute to prevent property theft? What a concept!

Prosecute to prevent violation of property rights by any means will prevent violation of property rights.

Big corporations have ways of ducking any accountability -


Just as they do now WITH the big Regulatory State.

limits placed on liability in cases

Placed by the US govt.

The NM legislature voted to limit the liability of its Space Port. Why? Why should the state give a pass to anyone using the Space Port?

Those who support the Regulatory State are the crony socialists who accept the lobbying and license to pollute.
Enron was eager to for Kyoto treaty so they could profit from carbon credits like they did with pollution credits.

May 18, 2015
"On this day in 1950, President Harry S. Truman announces during a press conference that he is prepared to authorize the use of atomic weapons in order to achieve peace in Korea. At the time of Truman's announcement, communist China had joined North Korean forces in their attacks on United Nations troops, including U.S. soldiers, who were trying to prevent communist expansion into South Korea."
"Truman responded that the U.S. would take "whatever steps were necessary" to contain communist expansion in Korea. A reporter asked "Will that include the atomic bomb?" to which Truman replied, "That includes every weapon that we have.""http://www.histor...-weapons

Truman lied.

May 18, 2015
"In 1951 the U.S. escalated closest to atomic warfare in Korea. Because the PRC had deployed new armies to the Korean frontier, pit crews at the Kadena Air Force Base, Okinawa, assembled atomic bombs for Korean warfare, lacking only the essential nuclear cores. In Oct. 1951, the U.S. effected Operation Hudson Harbor to establish nuclear weapons capability. USAF B-29 bombers practiced individual bombing runs (using dummy nuclear or conventional bombs) from Okinawa to North Korea, coordinated from Yokota AFB in Japan. Hudson Harbor tested "actual functioning of all activities which would be involved in an atomic strike, including weapons assembly and testing, leading to ground control of bomb aiming". There were an increasing number of suggestions on precisely how the atomic bombing of N. Korea would be conducted. Robert Oppenheimer, director of "the Manhatten Project", was designated a consultant in the tactical use of the A-bomb."
http://b-29s-over...US-Plann

May 18, 2015
"With atomic weapons already on Okinawa, the stage was set to proceed with the actual detonation of numerous nuclear bombs. It was suggested that General Curtis LeMay be put in charge of the actual drops. All ranking officials plus The President of the U.S. agreed to the plan. Everything was ready, just waiting for the "word"."
http://b-29s-over..._02.html

MacArthur was relieved of command in April 1951, before Truman prepared for an atomic bomb attack of China.


May 19, 2015
Truman denied MacArthur's request - and fired his ass.

That is not why he was fired.
AFTER firing MacArthur, Truman was prepared to use nuclear weapons.

Abolish the Regulatory State.
Use a small fraction of the funds to create a robust civil court system enabling anyone to easily file suit against anyone for infringing on their property.
Abolish secret out of court settlements. Once a suit is filed, all proceedings and results are public knowledge, even if the suit is withdrawn. Firestone tires on Ford SUVs were failing resulting in deaths. Families settled out of court covering up the problem for many months and the USgovt failed to catch the problem. Abolishing secret settlements shines a light on product failures quickly informing the public of danger.
No one can be forced into binding arbitration.

It's unlikely this will change anytime soon as crony socialists depend upon the state to protect them from competitors and customers.


May 19, 2015
Sunshine is a great disinfectant for a corrupt govt.

"McLellan was never convicted or even charged with a crime after IRS agents raided his small business–L & M Convenient Mart in Fairmont, North Carolina–last October. The IRS, however, seized $107,000 from his business' bank account using a civil forfeiture law."
"Afterwards, McLellan's attorney received a threatening email from the IRS:

Whoever made [the case file] public may serve their own interest but will not help this particular case. Your client needs to resolve this or litigate it. But publicity about it doesn't help. It just ratchets up feelings in the agency. My offer is to return 50% of the money.

Two weeks ago, the Institute for Justice agreed to take up McLellan's case, which then garnered national press coverage.

On Thursday, the IRS notified the Institute's attorney that it would be returning all of McLellan's money."
http://www.wester...ism.com/
"Ratchets up feelings at the agency"?

May 19, 2015
What a tangled web....

"But facts like these never stopped organizations like Beyond Pesticides and the Natural Resources Defense Council from claiming America and the world faced a "bee-pocalypse" – never because of a convergence of problems; always because of their newest bogeyman: neonicotinoids. The facts likewise never stopped the White House from telling the EPA to scrutinize neonics intently, in the name of protecting pollinators.

Eventually, though, the facts caught up with the fear-mongering. As journalists wrote articles exposing the environmentalist falsehoods, the "honeybee Armageddon" justification began falling apart.

The White House and Big Green pressure groups did not want egg on their face. What to do? The preferred tactic: postpone the task force report and stall for time to concoct a new fable. It had worked before on other issues. A compliant, allied media and gullible public should make it work again."
http://dailycaller.com/

May 19, 2015
Compromise with the evil regulatory state and evil wins.

"Touting the Obama administration's new policy on the Internet, Kerry insisted that without strict government regulation, the Internet could not reach its potential, "
http://www.breitb...roperly/

May 19, 2015
If machines do more of our work - then that SHOUL mean more stuff can be produced with less overall (human) work...which in turn SHOULD mean that if we're satisfied with our status of living we all need to work less (i.e. we could just take the jobs that remain and do job sharing)

(Warning: sarcasm ahead)
But for some reason the increase in productivity has not translated into an increase of mean population wealth. Why is that exactly, d'you think?

An Oxford University study published in 2013 found that 47% of jobs in the United States could be computerised within two decades.

It's one of those jokes that gets bandied about in IT: "If you annoy me I'll replace you with a script"

May 19, 2015
My point is that MacArthur was ready to start world war three

Mac wanted to win.
Truman did not.

MacArthur to have unleashed Armagedon.

No, it would not. There was no better time for the US to defeat Mao and poke Stalin in the eye. Had that occurred, Mao could not have starved millions and Vietnam would not likely been supported by USSR.
Greenie likes socialism too much.
mythical state

It existed prior to the creation of the 'progressive' Regulatory State over 100 years ago.

not translated into an increase of mean population wealth

What is 'mean population wealth'?

The poorest people today, at least in the West, are richer than most nobility 200 years ago.


May 19, 2015
Seems that you have a real deficit of common sense and empathy -


Since you support containment, not victory, tens of millions of Chinese were starved to death by Mao. Millions more suffered under Pol Pot and all DPRK dictators.
Some empathy!

May 19, 2015
"Churchill believed Communism destroyed the very principles of liberty and freedom that he would devote his career to advancing and defending. Certainly, with his love of Empire, there were some inconsistencies in his thinking, but above all, Churchill believed that the individual should be able to make choices and that systemic freedom-of the press, of religion, of the ballot, must be upheld for individuals to enact such choices. That's why he vowed to "strangle Bolshevism in its cradle," though his plan to bolster anti-Communist forces was quickly shot down by Woodrow Wilson and David Lloyd George as another of "Winston's follies.""

https://www.natio...acy.html

The 'progressives' were wrong.

May 19, 2015
Mao could not have starved millions and Vietnam would not likely been supported by USSR
The only way to make sense of past events is to understand that world Leaders were working together to create conditions where overall Stability and Progress could prevail.

The world was entering an age of breathtaking technological potential. This potential could not be allowed to play out in sociopolitical conditions extant at the time.

And so wars, revolutions, death and destruction were Planned, Staged, Executed, and Managed to produce the desired Result.

People have been taught that war is the ultimate failure. But our tropical repro rate in conjunction with life-saving and -extending tech has always made war inevitable. Unavoidable. No matter what.

To let war happen by itself is suicide. But wars waged by Design can be of immeasurable Benefit.

Because of this, engineered wars are irresistible. Which means that they are inevitable as well.

May 19, 2015
We have to deny the part of our character which wants war. It is inevitable because many have the Teutonic arrogant attitude they can take what they want.

Apologists for war want an excuse for what we do to others because of poor character. Most never served in the military at all.

May 19, 2015
But gkam this would mean you would have to deny the lying and cheating which is the hallmark of your character. I doubt you would be able to do this. You certainly haven't been able to do it here.

May 19, 2015
Perhaps you failed to notice the most vocal groups against the Bush Wars were war veterans from Vietnam and our other wars. Do you think you folk were smarter than those of us who tried and tried to tell you about the Office of Special Plans and how they lied us into the Bush Wars? Do you know about Hill and Knowlton, who lied us into the First Bush War?

May 19, 2015
And would have started lobbing nukes in his zeal to win.


And Truman would drop nukes in order not to lose.

But Mac said he wanted to use 600,000 Taiwan troops as well who had been chased off the mainland.

May 19, 2015
Perhaps you failed to notice the most vocal groups against the Bush Wars were war veterans from Vietnam and our other wars
This is an opinion not a statistic. You have any statistics to back up your bullshit opinions?
Do you think you folk were smarter than those of us who tried and tried to tell you about the Office of Special Plans and how they lied us into the Bush Wars?
Probably, if the majority of them think like you do.
Do you know about Hill and Knowlton, who lied us into the First Bush War?
Name dropping does not mean you know what you are talking about. Your reliance on idiot slogans (Bush wars, wmd! etcetc) rather than real data and refs indicates you arent thinking about anything.

Provide some evidence please that you are thinking rather than aping 60s t shirt mantras, since that is all you post.

Om.

May 19, 2015
Look it up, otto-wiki.

You're the one with no experience.

May 19, 2015
- about how you would protect people from environmental criminals - without a court/prison/police/regulatory system.

I just laid it out.
Abolish the Regulatory State and fund a robust civil court system and change laws to traditional common property law.

But he didn't - did he?


He didn't have the chance did he? He lost re-election.
Ike started destroying irrigation systems and the North negotiated a cease fire. The war has never ended.

The beginning of the Cold War was not much different that WWII. The US focused its attention on Europe, stopping the advance of the USSR and trying to contain communists in Asia.
Failing to destroy the enemy when he was weak led to what happened in SE Asia in the next three decades, and continues with a nuclear North Korea threatening Japan and Hawaii.


May 19, 2015
Look it up, otto-wiki
I chase down your bullshit all the time. This one is so obviously bullshit that I neednt bother.

Gkam thinks that all those vets naturally know more about the war because they were actually there. Gkam would then have to admit that all the janitors and maintenance people (like him) who worked in reactor facilities would be reliable authorities on reactor design and function.

Obviously thats bullshit. But gkam never tires of reposting this ignorance time and again despite being corrected, which itself is ignorance.

WHY are you so ignorant gkam? Is it because thats all you got?

You know the more I see this infantile crap being posted over and over and over again ad infinitum, the more I suspect that gkam is just a fake persona like the pussytard bloodline.

Its hard to imagine that anyone could be this stupid except on purpose.

How else would you explain the notion that dried manure is a MAJOR source of pollution in the central valley? ETC

May 19, 2015
"The death toll is staggering. "The most officials have admitted is 20 million," he says, but he puts the total at 36 million. It is "equivalent to 450 times the number of people killed by the atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki … and greater than the number of people killed in the first world war," he writes. Many think even this is a conservative figure: in his acclaimed book Mao's Great Famine, Frank Dikotter estimates that the toll reached at least 45 million.

Tombstone meticulously demonstrates that the famine was not only vast, but manmade; and not only manmade but political, born of totalitarianism. "
http://www.thegua...ombstone

Why should the West care about 45 million Chinese? They didn't care much about the millions killed by the Japanese.

May 19, 2015
"From the invasion of China in 1937 to the end of World War II, the Japanese military regime murdered near 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most probably almost 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war."

https://www.hawai...HAP3.HTM

May 19, 2015
"On Tuesday, the Los Angeles City Council passed a minimum wage law by a 14-to-1 vote margin that continually cranks-up wages for the next five years to $15 an hour. Meanwhile, employers are responding by investing in machines over people.

Four in 10 employers surveyed in the eighth annual poll by the Los Angeles County Business Federation say they expect to hire more people this year, up 10 percent over last year. But the numbers of employers that say they intend to make the type of capital investments that eliminate jobs through automation doubled, to 59 percent."

http://www.breitb...-people/

Abolish the minimum wage.

May 19, 2015
"You know the more I see, . . . "
-------------------------------

You see? Who are you? Tell us!

All we know is your admission you use pseudonyms here to play "games" like this one. You are just a sniper cowering behind a phony name, taking shots at others.

Grow up.

May 20, 2015
Why should the West care about 45 million Chinese?


Because they are human beings - most people with the minimum of a pulse would know that answer. Obviously not in your world view - but that is what we would expect. So interesting how you cannot even hear your own words.


But the West did NOT care about the Chinese being slaughtered by the Japanese.
It was a crime for US military pilots to fly for The Flying Tigers.
After the WWII, what did the US do to oppose Mao?

Why should the West care about 45 million Chinese?


Because they are human beings - most people with the minimum of a pulse would know that answer. Obviously not in your world view - but that is what we would expect. So interesting how you cannot even hear your own words.


Will you have a judicial/police/prison system?


What does this have to do with the EPA and The Regulatory State?

You believe the only police MUST be federal govt police?

May 20, 2015
Will you have a judicial/police/prison system?


Look up the Xeer system.

And again, are you asserting that ONLY a national govt can operate a judicial system?

Most criminal cases are local and state systems.

Private property owners that attract a large number of people: malls, sporting events, ... hire private security.
And in the end, it is really up the individual to defend themselves. Police have NO obligation to protect anyone.
And we saw in Baltimore how the 'liberal' local govt allowed criminals to destroy private property.

Property taxes are generally used to fund local police and fire, and that seems like a reasonable 'fee for service' way to collectively hire people to protect our property.
But, millions have found local police to be inadequate so they hire private security firms.

Why do you conflate a legitimate function of govt, protection of private property, with illegitimate functions such as control of private property?

May 21, 2015
All we know is your admission you use pseudonyms
-just like everybody else. You look down on everybody don't you? You use your 'real' name as justification for posting lies and bullshit.
here to play "games" like this one
So what games are we playing today? George posts nonsense like fallout being the MAIN cause of lung cancer or manure being a MAJOR cause of pollution in the Central Valley. Otto does a little research and proves gkam full of shit. Gkam gets indignant and claims he must be right because he won a service award and taught 30k people.

So what do you call this game George? Truth or dare?
You are just a sniper cowering behind a phony name, taking shots at others
Exposing your bullshit is not 'taking shots'.

Gkam wants to come here and spout nonsense and then throws a tantrum when people have the gall to prove him wrong.

Boo hoo little boy.

May 21, 2015
Like I say capitalists abhor competition and will take any chance hey get to eliminate it.

"For the world's biggest banks, what seemed like the perfect business turned out to be the perfect breeding ground for crime.

"The trading of foreign currencies promised substantial revenues and relatively low risk. It was the kind of activity that banks were supposed to expand after the 2008 financial crisis.

"But like so many other seemingly good ideas on Wall Street, the foreign exchange business was vulnerable to manipulation, so much so that traders created online chat rooms called "the cartel" and "the mafia.""

-Business is business.

May 21, 2015

Alternative energy will provide many more jobs than nukes with their Nuclear Priesthood and need for a Police State. The jobs produced by nukes will be for Big Brother to guard the nuclear waste for 240,000 years.

May 21, 2015
Folk who have never worked with nuclear power have unrealistic concepts about its use and abuse. We will have many more jobs by integrating new technologies into more secure and efficacious systems.

May 23, 2015


"The Obama administration is the first to give the E.P.A. a mandate to create broad public outreach campaigns, using the tactics of elections, in support of federal environmental regulations before they are final. Test[ing] the limits of federal lobbying law, the agency orchestrated a drive to … enlist public support in concert with liberal environmental groups and a grass-roots organization aligned with President Obama."

http://blog.heart...e-power/

May 23, 2015

"While federal law permits the president and political appointees, like the E.P.A. administrator, to promote government policy, or to support or oppose pending legislation, the Justice Department, in a series of legal opinions going back nearly three decades, has told federal agencies that they should not engage in substantial "grass-roots" lobbying, defined as "communications by executive officials directed to members of the public at large, or particular segments of the general public, intended to persuade them in turn to communicate with their elected representatives on some issue of concern to the executive."
http://blog.heart...e-power/

EPA breaks the law and socialists don't care.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

May 23, 2015
"The EPA has a problem: its pre-emptive veto of the Pebble Mine, a proposed project in southwest Alaska. The law says that Pebble gets to apply for permits, and the Army Corps of Engineers gets to give thumbs up or down. The EPA, a law unto itself, instead last year blocked the proposal before applications were even filed. The agency claims it got involved because of petitions from Native American tribes in 2010, and that its veto is based on "science"—a watershed assessment that purportedly shows the mine would cause environmental harm."
"the agency opposed the mine on ideological grounds and had already decided to veto it in the spring of 2010—well before it did any "science.""
http://www.wsj.co...32250642

May 23, 2015
" "Xeer is stronger than any government's laws. The government laws don't satisfy the people; they do not bring about a sufficient justice, and so they do not bring peace between the groups," he added. "
" Each member is responsible for the crimes committed by anyone else from his diyah group. "
""Xeer is accepted by the people," explained Abdirahman Raghe, a program officer in the Somalia office of the War-Torn Societies Project. "You cannot deny that. It is a strange culture, the Somali culture. But there is a beauty to it. All agreements are reached and all disputes are resolved through consensus. There is no fighting. There is never any fighting." "

http://www.legala...ct05.msp

Law without a central state.

Greenie may not like Xeer law, but he doesn't seem to mind fascist law that plunders the wealth of others.

May 27, 2015
hy don't you just head off and live in Somalia Ryggy?

You asked for alternative examples to the fascist state you support.
The fascist states today enable girls to be raped in UK and murder babies in abortion mills in the US.

May 27, 2015
Socialists/fascists/statists/'progressives' like greenie, when challenged in their faith in the Regulatory State, typically cite Somalia as an example of what happens without the almighty state.
The recent wars and conflict in Somalia are CAUSED by various factions trying to impose a socialist state in Somalia.
While Somalia was officially stateless, it was doing no worse, and in some cases better, economically than it's socialist neighbor states.
"Better Off Stateless: Somalia Before and After Government Collapse"
http://www.cfr.or...e/p10120

May 27, 2015
Girls are raped in every country in the world.

But they are enabled by UK political correctness.
function of the misogynistic culture

It's a function of the fear, or preference for Islamism by the 'liberals' in UK.

shackles of religion

But you like the shackles of the 'liberal', Regulatory State?

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