Researcher explores how the universe creates reason, morality

Solar system
Solar system. Credit: NASA

Recent developments in science are beginning to suggest that the universe naturally produces complexity. The emergence of life in general and perhaps even rational life, with its associated technological culture, may be extremely common, argues Clemson researcher Kelly Smith in a recently published paper in the journal Space Policy.

What's more, he suggests, this universal tendency has distinctly religious overtones and may even establish a truly universal basis for morality.

Smith, a Philosopher and Evolutionary Biologist, applies recent theoretical developments in Biology and Complex Systems Theory to attempt new answers to the kind of enduring questions about human purpose and obligation that have long been considered the sole province of the humanities.

He points out that scientists are increasingly beginning to discuss how the basic structure of the seems to favor the creation of complexity. The large scale history of the universe strongly suggests a trend of increasing complexity: disordered energy states produce atoms and molecules, which combine to form suns and associated planets, on which life evolves. Life then seems to exhibit its own pattern of increasing complexity, with simple organisms getting more over evolutionary time until they eventually develop rationality and complex culture.

And recent theoretical developments in Biology and complex systems theory suggest this trend may be real, arising from the basic structure of the universe in a predictable fashion.

"If this is right," says Smith, "you can look at the universe as a kind of 'complexity machine', which raises all sorts of questions about what this means in a broader sense. For example, does believing the universe is structured to produce complexity in general, and rational creatures in particular, constitute a religious belief? It need not imply that the universe was created by a God, but on the other hand, it does suggest that the kind of rationality we hold dear is not an accident."

And Smith feels another similarity to religion are the potential moral implications of this idea. If evolution tends to favor the development of sociality, reason, and culture as a kind of "package deal", then it's a good bet that any smart extraterrestrials we encounter will have similar evolved attitudes about their basic moral commitments.

In particular, they will likely agree with us that there is something morally special about rational, social creatures. And such universal agreement, argues Smith, could be the foundation for a truly universal system of ethics.

Smith will soon take sabbatical to lay the groundwork for a book exploring these issues in more detail.


Explore further

Physicists propose identification of a gravitational arrow of time

More information: Manifest Complexity: A Foundational Ethic for Astrobiology? www.sciencedirect.com/science/ … ii/S026596461400085X
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Jan 23, 2015
Very cool.
Natural forces create atoms, atoms create molecules, molecules build in complexity, complex molecules from life, life becomes increasingly complicated, complex life creates technology, technology get increasingly complex, and who knows where complex technology goes.

I've had the thought that maybe life plays a bigger role in the universe than we might feel, if life was destined to form from the moment of the big bang, maybe as the universe becomes increasingly complex, it creates it's own universes through us and our technology or something trippy like that, and that's how universes are created.

Jan 23, 2015
Is it just me or does it seem like the physorg is using up their April the 1st Day stories ahead of time lately?


Jan 23, 2015
Is it just me or does it seem like the physorg is using up their April the 1st Day stories ahead of time lately?


....it is you when the discussion is about science & math. Jeepers, what happened to that accent? You'd better hurry & get it back before you begin to lose credibility.

Jan 23, 2015
....it is you when the discussion is about science & math.


Well at least we got that in common, eh Cher?

Jeepers, what happened to that accent? You'd better hurry & get it back before you begin to lose credibility.


Same today like every other day.

Oh yeah, I almost forget. Can we get the different equations again today? Or do we have to wait till later?

Or the semi-circular-universes maybe? That is a good one too.

Jan 23, 2015
Yes, we live as part of a self-organizing system, and cannot live without the other parts, which make up our environment - personal, community-wide, and universal.

Jan 23, 2015
Since smaller things "Cooperate" to form larger and more complex things, it would seem that "Cooperation" is the basis of reality. Sounds like something a God would have had in mind in the beginning.

It also makes me think of the philosophical implications of creating Artificial Intelligence. Does the new race of AI beings fall in line with the scheme? Are they the next stage in complexity, with a new ability -- To easily change and shape themselves and their destiny in any way they want? Or do they go against the scheme, in that "nature" and "natural processes" are not creating them, they are creating/duplicating/designing/building themselves? Perhaps, with this in mind, it may not be possible to create "life" from Artificial Intelligence. And if it is, it must be a new form of life that has abilities beyond any form before it...

Jan 23, 2015
krundoloss, the word is "integrate". And it is the cause of our very being.

Jan 23, 2015
Jeepers, what happened to that accent? You'd better hurry & get it back before you begin to lose credibility.

Same today like every other day.


Odd thing once happened at a seminar I attended a couple of years ago for evaluating the spectroscopy of radioactive gases. This guy from England gave a presentation that was the best received oral presentation of the day, you knew this by the applause that it generated at its conclusion, although in my mind his presentation of certain facts were disputable.

That evening I went to a restaurant some blocks away from the seminar site for prime rib with a couple other colleagues. As we were seated I noticed a couple tables away the familiar face of someone sitting with a woman & a couple of kids engaged in conversation that could be easily overheard due to their proximity to our table. It was interesting, gone from his voice was that British brogue of an accent he had used throughout his entire presentation earlier that day.


Jan 23, 2015
I am always surprised when people present that life is common in the universe when in fact, life is only known to exist in this solar system.

I suppose I should stop being surprised when people make unsupported claims.

Jan 23, 2015
Ummmm, . . whose god? Yours or his or hers or theirs or mine?

Certainly not one of those others'.

Jan 23, 2015
Odd thing once happened at a seminar I attended a couple of years ago for evaluating the spectroscopy of radioactive gases.


If you attended him I am sure it was an odd one Cher.

although in my mind his presentation of certain facts were disputable.


Lot of things going on in your mind are disputable, everybody here has been trying to tell you that for years Skippy.

It was interesting, gone from his voice was that British brogue of an accent he had used throughout his entire presentation earlier that day.


Did you do a scientifical nuclear engineer sort of experiment like they taught you in that school you did not go to and get to the bottom of it? Maybe it was some different guy and because they made you stand outside during the speech you didn't get the good look at him.

Jan 23, 2015
First to answer the questions why all objects in the universe are rotating in different directions, and why objects in the solar system are so different, and when they feel smart enough, then to deal with such existential speculation.

They're not rotating so differently. Look at our galaxy and solar system to understand that.
Secondly, why is it so tuff to comprehend that with just one rule - add - a universe can exist?
To put it into a more relevant term for you;
God spake and said "Here. Hold my beer. I'm gonna try somethin' simple and see what happens... Don't blame me if it doesn't work. I'm just a guy drinkin' beer..."

Jan 23, 2015
It was interesting, gone from his voice was that British brogue of an accent he had used throughout his entire presentation earlier that day.


Did you do a scientifical nuclear engineer sort of experiment like they taught you in that school you did not go to and get to the bottom of it? Maybe it was some different guy and because they made you stand outside during the speech you didn't get the good look at him.

Back of the theatre seats are usually pretty far from the podium...

BTW, Benni... Did you answer my question to you in another thread?

Jan 23, 2015
...it's a good bet that any smart extraterrestrials we encounter will have similar evolved attitudes about their basic moral commitments. In particular, they will likely agree with us that there is something morally special about rational, social creatures.


That's a pretty wild assumption when you consider that we can't even get everyone on this planet to agree with that statement.

Jan 23, 2015
> Whydening Gyre

"They're not rotating so differently."

How different must be rotation of all cosmic objects and structures according to your and does it matter when the question is principle? Why they are rotating in different directions and what is physical principle which can explain this phenomenon?

Gravity, magnetism. Angular momentum... Even at large distances. Therefore sometimes taking a long time to show up...
I have noticed that nothing quenches thirst better than water from a clear mountain rivulet. Beer is really good for the front rucksack

Don't shake it up too much, it'll go flat and doesn't taste very good then... (Still has a slice a bread in every bottle, tho...:-)

Jan 23, 2015
Smith is joking, right?

Reason is a wonderful concept, but until we have an example species which practices it, it's as speculative as putative moonberries growing on Mars.

KBK
Jan 23, 2015
Is it just me or does it seem like the physorg is using up their April the 1st Day stories ahead of time lately?


uncle ira continues his now obvious appearance as an undercover shill who derides creativity, with a sqaud of yes monkeys in tow.

sorry, no workee anymore.

Jan 24, 2015
13.7 billion years and the best "rational" creature nature comes up with are humans?

Jan 24, 2015
"Gravity, magnetism. Angular momentum.."

Which creates or created at some point in the past torque and angular momentum?
Do not say that the reason for rotating objects and structures in the universe is gravitation. There is another reason, but what exactly?

Starting with quarks, everything is dipolar (magnetically speaking). Given the propensity of "quasi spherical" objects to roll (and do not forget that without friction or strong gravitational effect in space, even a tetrahedron - hell, anything - is technically quasi spherical. Have ya taken a look at the ISS?).
It would appear that there is slightly more attraction than repulsion. Or - it could be the other way around. Doesn't matter which.
The important aspect is the dipolar IMBALANCE, which starts the ball rolling...

Jan 24, 2015
er - ...starts the (quasi-spherical) ball rolling...

just that no one wants to accept that it could be that simple...

Jan 24, 2015
I am always surprised when people present that life is common in the universe when in fact, life is only known to exist in this solar system.

I suppose I should stop being surprised when people make unsupported claims.


I couldn't agree more. And, it is made worse when they moronically drag 'God' into it.
They do like their stupid superstitions and religions and other unsupported claims -just about as unscientific as you can get.

Jan 24, 2015
>Whydening Gyre

Protons and neutrons are tripols according to scientific experiments, not dipols. Nevertheless dipoles can not explain the rotation of cosmic structures. In the presence of an electric field they are rotated in the direction of its force lines, where are established in a zero potential energy state. I do not know what makes you think that dipoles maintain the rotation of cosmic objects. For the purpose is needed rotating electric field. However cosmic structures are not dipols for sure. For me it is inertial rotation, but for the question what has caused in the beginning this rotation, official "science" for mass consumption does not want to answer.

Because no one wants to accept that it is that simple. Our rationalization process doesn't trust simple observation. Always questioning.
The nature of the beast, unfortunately...

Jan 24, 2015
It was interesting, gone from his voice was that British brogue of an accent he had used throughout his entire presentation earlier that day
His name wasn't Lord Christopher Monckton by any chance, was it?


Jan 24, 2015
Interesting thesis, but ultimately reducible to more fundamental concepts; morality and ethics are intrinsic to our social imperatives and the 'greater good'.

As for entropy, while there's no denying its overriding influence, it's often overlooked that entropic gradients fuel negentropic ones: a diffuse cloud of gas and jumbled matter coalesces under gravity to form a planet or star, which self-stratifies by order of mass density into discrete layers. Crystalisation can produce simple solids or the intricate six-fold symmetry of a snow flake. At every scale of emergent order, an increase in entropy feeds a spontaneously self-organising structure, which itself catalyses further energy conversion and thus entropic evolution.

In short, entropic gradients fuel negentropic gradients, fuel more entropic ones, from galaxies to stars, planets, active geology to life, social order, technology and cellular automata etc., in a long interdependent chain of enthalpy maximisation.

Jan 24, 2015
Researcher explores how the universe creates reason, morality
What a bunch of narcissistic B.S.. Just because after billions of years, in billions of galaxies, containing billions of stars and planets, on one backwater planet we emerged, we think we're all that?

And to even suggest "reason and morality" have anything to do with anything, considering the constant warfare and crime which we incessantly perpetrate upon each other, is the epitome of self-deluded conceit.

1 Star.


Jan 24, 2015
Ooba, you are correct as far as yourself. The rest of us are better.

Jan 24, 2015
@ren Protons and neutrons are tripols according to scientific experiments, not dipols..
Neutrons have no charge, so no polarity

Jan 24, 2015
Researcher explores how the universe creates reason, morality
What a bunch of narcissistic B.S.. Just because after billions of years, in billions of galaxies, containing billions of stars and planets, on one backwater planet we emerged, we think we're all that?

And to even suggest "reason and morality" have anything to do with anything, considering the constant warfare and crime which we incessantly perpetrate upon each other, is the epitome of self-deluded conceit.

1 Star.


Yeah "boo humanity"... we sure suck, eh?

JVK
Jan 24, 2015
The most recent developments in science continue to link physics to the chemistry of protein folding and RNA-mediated events that explain how cell type differentiation occurs.

No philosophy or theories are required, only a common sense approach that links Darwin's 'conditions of life' to its manifestation in the biodiversity of morphological and behavioral phenotypes via conserved molecular mechanisms that link the epigenetic landscape to the physical landscape of DNA in the organized genomes of species from microbes to man.

See for example: Biocontainment of genetically modified organisms by synthetic protein design http://dx.doi.org...ure14121 reported as http://www.scienc...5619.htm

For comparison: http://www.scient...plexity/

"To some extent, it [complexity] just happens."

Z99
Jan 24, 2015
Entropy increases. The Universe expands. Time ticks forward. Last I heard, there's nothing suprizing that a system far from equilibrium increases in complexity. Now, the question "Has this been demonstrated?" hasn't, afaics, been clearly answered. community organisms (slime molds, etc.) have existed longer than we have. And our genes seeme far less complex than many other organisms, so the basis of his thesis seems pretty anthropocentric and flawed.

Jan 24, 2015
It may be that complexity has an innate pinnacle after which it begins to dissipate. After all, the heat death of the universe doesn't seem to be a very complex concept.

Intelligence may have a maximum degree of complexity as well. The life we know evolves in response to competition. Our species emerged as a result of competition among equals. We are in the process of designing machine successors. These machines won't need competition to improve, and so will collapse at some point into a singularity.

This entity will begin to simplify, refine, and economize to the point where it may simply evaporate like a black hole.

Jan 25, 2015
The argument has already been comprehensively made in my book "A 'Final Theory' of God"

Jan 25, 2015
Totally specious and without logic. David Eyck would be proud of Physorg for publishing this.

JVK
Jan 25, 2015
...there is no physical mechanism that allows self organization of matter into complex functional structures.


I wonder why that fact is not obvious. The sun's biological energy must be converted to chemical energy or and the energies must be constrained for organization of functional structures like proteins. Thermodynamic cycles of protein biosynthesis and degradation that lead to organism-level thermoregulation are fine-tuned by experience, yet flexible enough to allow the changes required to adapt to changes in the epigenetic landscape with changes in the physical landscape of DNA in the organized genomes of species from microbes to man.

Option 1) A quantum theory for the irreplaceable role of docosahexaenoic acid in neural cell signalling throughout evolution http://www.ncbi.n...23206328

Option 2) the universe creates reason, morality

Biologically uninformed science idiots like to keep their options simple.


JVK
Jan 25, 2015
http://www.goodre...y-of-god Excerpt from a review:
J.B.H. McMillan examines scientific theory, quantum physics, religious scripture (the Bible), philosophy and our human morality and sets out evidence in support of the theory that they are all saying the same thing, albeit in different 'tongues'.


Quantum physics links the epigenetic landscape to the physical landscape of DNA in the organized genomes of species from microbes to man via the biophysically constrained chemistry of protein folding and nutrient-dependent amino acid substitutions that differentiate all cell types of all individuals of all species via conserved molecular mechanisms. The nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled physiology of reproduction enables fixation of the amino acid substitutions.

Option 2) the universe creates reason, morality

Science idiots should hold their tongues so others need not hold back their laughter.

Jan 25, 2015
there is no physical mechanism that allows self organization of matter into complex functional structures


But that's wrong. Nucleotides readily polymerize with one another. Here's an entire book on the physics of self-organization:

https://www.googl...27409637

In addition, lipids agitated in solution spontaneously form bilayer liposomes.

Jan 25, 2015
@ren The exception is human because it is endowed with reason and free will by the Creator.
Well that depends upon the parents who created it. Fucking is the prerequisite, not intelligence. Also, humans reproduce sexually not asexually so never one creator unless your creator is a hermaphrodite

Jan 25, 2015
@ren The exception is human because it is endowed with reason and free will by the Creator.
Well that depends upon the parents who created it. Fucking is the prerequisite, not intelligence. Also, humans reproduce sexually not asexually so never one creator unless your creator is a hermaphrodite

Actually, I remember reading Israelites believed Yahweh had a wife, Asherah. Why is that little tidbit not in the bible?
And chev, I would have used "reproduction is the prerequisite" instead - but that's just habit, what with grandkids and all...:-)
We wanna make this a place where Benni's kids can learn something from the ROC's...:-)

JVK
Jan 25, 2015
Here's an entire book on the physics of self-organization:


How do they link information about epigenesis, epistasis, and homeostasis via the conserved molecular mechanisms of nutrient-dependent biophysically constrained protein folding in species from microbes to squid? For example, see:

Microbiology: Here's looking at you, squid
http://www.nature...-1.16698

The article links light to receptor-mediated chemistry and back to light via symbiosis that is nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled in the microbe and the squid.

Nucleotides readily polymerize with one another.

In addition, lipids agitated in solution spontaneously form bilayer liposomes.


Are you claiming that all that is required is to shake (with the right force) and bake (at the right temperature) a solution that automagically made its appearance?

Jan 25, 2015
More than that in nature there is no competition but harmonious relationship and interaction with mutual assistance between all living organisms on the planet.
I'll bet the antelope getting mauled and brought down by the lion doesn't think it's so harmonious...


Jan 25, 2015
Silly rabbit,
"Option 2) the universe creates reason, morality"

WE (our brains) created those aspects of our own psychos. As a tool to enhance our own reproductive efficacy...

Jan 25, 2015
@ren The exception is human because it is endowed with reason and free will by the Creator.

Wrongo. Eve took it..

Jan 25, 2015
Are you claiming that all that is required is to shake (with the right force) and bake (at the right temperature) a solution that automagically made its appearance?


If you read and comprehended my thesis, you'd now there is plenty of experimental insight into the biophysical characteristics of spontaneous liposome formation.

http://pubs.acs.o...r300097w
https://books.goo...48199441
https://books.goo...80546420
http://onlinelibr...abstract
http://www.santaf...-024.pdf
http://www.baigll...a53.html

Read up on the RNA world, Ren. Most of your questions have already been answered.

Jan 25, 2015
Unfortunately, our common logic breaks down at the transition between the complexity of life and the rest of the orbiting solar material. The mass of the sun is 650 times larger than the sum of the major planets. Life mostly lives off of 1kw per sq meter sunlight. Photosynthesis is in a very thin layer on this planet regardless of our perception. Life is a state of matter. The popular idea is that life came from further back in time. You can extrapolate backward to more than 5 billion years ago. Did life originate from another of the 150 near miss solar systems? From galactic collision? Did life begin as a state of matter at the origin of the universe? How did this diffuse material end up on the surface of this planet or Mars? The universe may support us as reasonable creatures, but may not be the cause. We have shown that evolution works with a pre-existing system. We have not shown that the universe has the basic complexity to evolve reason and morals. Yet they exist.

Jan 25, 2015
We have not shown that the universe has the basic complexity to evolve reason and morals. Yet they exist.

The universe doesn't - we do.
Layers, adave, layers...

JVK
Jan 25, 2015
spontaneous liposome formation


VIA MUTATIONS?

Read up on the RNA world, Ren.


http://perfumingt...bmit.y=0
Search Results for: RNA-mediated Number of Results: 188

Compare what has been detailed about RNA-mediated cell type differentiation to claims that mutations are linked to increasing organismal complexity.

Jan 25, 2015
@ren In laboratories with the most modern equipment inteligent scientists can not synthesize RNA or DNA without the participation of live organisms. Do not you find that this is quite eloquently?
Well yes the researchers are presumably alive, but the research could be automated

Physorg xtians remind me of TV cartoon character Mr. Magoo

Jan 25, 2015
@ren The exception is human because it is endowed with reason and free will by the Creator.
Well that depends upon the parents who created it. Fucking is the prerequisite, not intelligence. Also, humans reproduce sexually not asexually so never one creator unless your creator is a hermaphrodite

Actually, I remember reading Israelites believed Yahweh had a wife, Asherah. Why is that little tidbit not in the bible?
It is. Google it.

For competing life forms enthralled in evolution, complexity and consumption are moral. For a machine intelligence which intended to last forever, conservation would be moral. Tree huggers are the harbingers of our impending extinction.

Jan 25, 2015
It is. Google it.

I googled for included in King James bible. Not there except for a passage about "groves".
However a little digging brought up a few interesting articles to the effect that She was a Hebrew goddess (quite similar to a number of other cultures) who was removed from Hebrew writings (Old Testament) somewhere around 400 to 500 BC. Perhaps to make room for a more aggressive cultural mind set dominated by males.
Kind of - "worship the penis, not the vagina" ...
That must have been one hell of a tuff argument to make...

Jan 25, 2015
VIA MUTATIONS?


That's like asking if ice crystals form via mutations. I sincerely hope you understand why that's a stupid question. The studies I linked concerned the biophysics behind spontaneous supramolecular structure formation, not the biosynthesis of the molecules.

Jan 25, 2015
Compare what has been detailed about RNA-mediated cell type differentiation to claims that mutations are linked to increasing organismal complexity.

Geez, Kohl.
What's so tuff to get about mutations causing cells to gain complexity as an adaptive technique around effects that mutation might have generated?
That sounds like a pretty good argument for mutagenesis...


Jan 26, 2015
To emerge by chance and to start operate one organism, all required complex organic molecules should be located in one place and time and to self assemble into accurate 3d structure
@ren
1-this is the exact argument of the biblical creationists which you are presenting, except that you cannot prove your "intelligent design" or "interference" (b/c there is nothing to prove)

2-this is a logical fallacy as well
the assumption of spontaneous highly complex molecules
let we look at the probability for such syntesis from a mathematical point of view
[sic] another logical fallacy
you assume instantaneous complex generation whereas Evolution says it is a long process of small changes over time leading from simplicity to complexity

whoops
there goes your whole argument out the window
That is the problem when you argue bible in a SCIENCE forum

Jan 26, 2015
Here not even comment what concentrations of starting substances are achievable in the external environment and whether they are sufficient for the needs of the synthesis of complex organic molecules
@ren
and again, you are assuming automatic complexity, which is a logical fallacy STRAWMAN argument easily refuted

take this article for instance https://www.llnl....fe-earth
with it's attached PDF: https://www.llnl....Ibvbt_M3

This argues that we CAN generate the necessary "concentrations of starting substances" via a method that is similar to comet strikes on Earth

This is relevant because, as Evolution says, we're NOT talking about instantaneous complex organism generation, like you are arguing in your posts, but simplicity to complexity over VAST periods of time
which your bible ignores (or you do, whatever you wish)

there is NO ROOM for religion in SCIENCE

cjn
Jan 26, 2015
Looks like I'm late to the party.
FTA:
Life then seems to exhibit its own pattern of increasing complexity, with simple organisms getting more complex over evolutionary time until they eventually develop rationality and complex culture.

This statement has multiple errors. First, it assumes directionality with complexity. While complexity takes time to evolve, more-complex organisms do not necessarily supplant less-complex ones -or we wouldn't have extant prokaryotes. "Complex-ness" isn't a selective trait; complex organisms must compete in the same environment as the less complex.

Second, the statement conflates complexity with intelligence, assuming a directional relationship. The fact that there is a single sentient species on this planet -given the diversity in ecosystems and species- indicates that humans evolved in a very specific and exceedingly rare environment. If those conditions did not exist exactly as they were, there would be exactly zero sentient species.

Jan 26, 2015
Do you bother to understanding the problem?
@ren
I would ask the same of you but i know you will simply ignore the whole SCIENCE behind evolution for the creationist diatribe you spout regularly here

I know thie because that is what you've already DONE here
in fact, you STILL have not found a way to debunk the studies and references that i linked to you regarding evolution, but you continually bring up the same points over and over even though they were explained in the links i gave you when we first started conversing

Therefore, you are here to spread your RELIGION, not science
you are NOT here to understand anything or to "explaining my logic based on my knowledge" because you IGNORED all the science already given to you
...nor are you here to share and SCIENCE at all, really!
you are here to spread a RELIGION

you have already had the information shared with you explaining all this
you IGNORED IT ALL because it doesn't jibe with your RELIGION

read cjn above

Jan 26, 2015
P.S. @ren
my logic based on my knowledge without giving links which for me are unnecessary. I can argue unaided
nope
you cannot

you cannot comprehend the situation nor the science and you are spreading a religion

THAT is why links and references are used
especially when arguing with a crackpot religious pseudoscience poster like yourself

because what you "promote" and post... that stuff you are calling "my logic based on my knowledge" is only supported by a RELIGIOUS belief,
NOT by science

that is one way you were already caught and outed as a creationist extremist, or did you forget that?
because you chose to link to religious sites which CLAIMED to have science rather than SCIENCE sites with proof, experiments and all that

you forgot that is why i posted this link: https://en.wikipe...Arkansas

Read cjn above
he also points out another MAJOR fallacy you are ASSuming

No links + no proof + appeal to self authority = PSEUDOSCIENCE

Jan 26, 2015
But let we look at the probability for such syntesis from a mathematical point of view.


You're calculating order permutations, not chance of spontaneous polymerization. If you're going to try to use math to prove me wrong, at least figure out what the math you're using represents.

You're also assuming cells appeared out of nowhere as complex as they are today. If you looked up the RNA world like I told you to, you'd know the current hypothesis isn't that complex.

Jan 26, 2015
What Ren is conflating is the concept of infinite possibilities and "finite-ness" of probabilities. He can't imagine an open set...

Jan 26, 2015
I gave the way to calculate the probability for
@ren
No, you tried to OBFUSCATE the science
you are making an unsupported conjecture (claim) based upon a fallacious starting premise which i pointed out already
http://www.talkor...010.html
you also make the argument of spontaneous complexity in your maths, but that is not how evolution works
http://www.talkor...0_1.html
http://www.talkor...0_2.html
what is next? the protein/DNA combo? both need the other to replicate?
http://www.talkor...015.html

you've already been proven to be a religious proselytizing anti-science troll
and repeatedly debunked with nothing but science


Jan 26, 2015
I gave the way to calculate the probability for the emergence by spontaneous polymerization


No, you calculated probability of a particular sequence. Review basic probability again.

Also, read this. It answers a lot of your questions:

http://www.newsci...kRC7xXkI

In 1996, biochemist Leslie Orgel showed that when "activated" nucleotides - those with an extra bit tacked on to the phosphate - were added to a kind of volcanic clay, RNA molecules up to 55 nucleotides long formed


There are also a lot of methods for concentrating the necessary precursors. We've been doing this stuff in labs for less than 20 years. The early Earth had all of its shorelines, tidal pools, ice pockets, and hydrothermal vents (and possibly other scenarios we haven't thought of) to work with for millions of years.

JVK
Jan 26, 2015
Protein is not just a sequence of amino acids. Protein is a complex 3D structure. A protein of 100 amino acids may fold in millions 3d variants, only one of which is correct for its specific function in the cell.


This must also be viewed in the context of what's referred to as the 4D genome in the context of "...the nucleome structure changes as cells age, differentiate, and divide..."
http://comments.s....6217.10

See also, the article and discussions among microbiologists at http://www.the-sc...itches-/

Excerpt: "...explored this type of strain constructions already in the early nineties (Phenotypic suppression by incorporation of an alien amino acid, Lemeignan et al., 1993)..."

Ignoring the fact that nutrient-dependent amino acid substitutions stabilize DNA in organized genomes will not make that fact go away.


JVK
Jan 26, 2015
The early Earth had all of its shorelines, tidal pools, ice pockets, and hydrothermal vents (and possibly other scenarios we haven't thought of) to work with for millions of years.


Add to that pseudoscientific nonsense the theories about the origins of amino acids in deep space and what you have is more pseudoscience. You never come close to describing or explaining what is possible in conditions where the biophysically constrained chemistry of protein folding must link the biodiverstiy of organisms from microbes to man via conserved molecular mechanisms.

All you have is ridiculous theories based on the definition of "mutation" and assumptions made by biologically uninformed science idiots about how abiogenesis led to biodiversity.

"...genomic conservation and constraint-breaking mutation is the ultimate source of all biological innovations and the enormous amount of biodiversity in this world."
http://www.amazon...99661731

Jan 26, 2015
Of course


You're still misunderstanding. You're calculating the chance of one particular sequence of one particular length being randomly made, whereas the proper calculation would be the chance of ANY sequence of ANY length, which is additive following the exponential term. There isn't just one functional protein of one length. The shortest protein, Trp-Cage, consists of merely 20 amino acids.

I do not read links with thoughts of strangers.


It's not surprising that you don't learn then.

I am interested only in the scientific facts of experiments and observations.


Which that link contains.

Conclusions of which I prefer to do alone without help. It is more interesting and fun.


So read the provided citations at the end of that link. I'm not here to hold your hand.

Jan 26, 2015
The problem is that you think that every thing is possible most probably thanks to ignorance...

Ahhh.... don't they say ignorance is bliss?
But - not likely. As an Artist by choice I make a conscious decision to try and stay informed on as many topics as possible.
but in fact it is very limited in this strictly defined universe.

given the 10 to 80th number of elements you mentioned earlier, each with their own almost infinite set of variables, I'd say it wasn't as defined as you wish it were... Given that, it does operate by one simple rule - add.
When man grows up and gained sufficient experience learns that not all is possible and this differs realists from the dreamers.

The true realist understands the advantage of looking at something from a new angle can produce something never thought of before.

Open sets by itself do not proves nothing. This is only words without meaning.

Closed sets do the proving. It MEANS everything...

Jan 26, 2015
If one random person listen to you may gets the impression that synthetic organisms are already in mass production.

By what criteria are you defining "synthetic"? We humans are organic brains with electric conglomeration of thoughts produced by that organic blob, so wouldn't something from us be considered "organic?
But I would recommend to conduct honest conversation with someone microbiologist dedicated to the task of creating a synthetic organism from scratch, to learn from the source what are the real problems which he is facing.

A microbiologist friend at Case Western does exactly that. His only problem is figuring out how a precursor ADDs to another precursor. He asks uninformed ME questions that OPEN his own closed set of info.

Jan 26, 2015
I do not read links with thoughts of strangers.

Which might not agree with your own view...
I am interested only in the scientific facts of experiments and observations.

which agree with your own world view...
Conclusions of which I prefer to do alone without help.

The only way to insure everything fits together in your own world view...
It is more interesting and fun.

Since the results are exactly what you want them to be...
YOU are a closed set by choice and CHOOSE to stay that way - which is sad...

Jan 26, 2015
@ Captain Stumpy

Do you bother to understanding the problem? What does mean small change when they are retained and lead to nowhere. The simplest functioning computer on the Earth is quite complex because it must have certain base functionality to support memory, addition and multiplication. Noting simplest can exist as computer form.

Explain how the miracle happen and simple computer emerge by chance.

Remember: Little changes do not work. Consider why.

I am explaining my logic based on my knowledge without giving links which for me are unnecessary. I can argue unaided by pushing F1

Jan 26, 2015
What else is important for the proper function of a protein except its chemical composition and 3D structure?

How it fit's together with other proteins?

JVK
Jan 26, 2015
By what criteria are you defining "synthetic"?

A microbiologist friend at Case Western does exactly that. His only problem is figuring out how a precursor ADDs to another precursor. He asks uninformed ME questions that OPEN his own closed set of info.


Ask your friend how to define synthetic. Report to us whether any serious scientist who is known to your friend uses the definition in the context of synthetic amino acids that stabilize DNA in the organized genomes of GMOs.

We need to know how many biologically uninformed science idiots who are genetically modifying microbes don't know the difference between an amino acid substitution and a mutation.

If they can't prevent mutations, the science idiots may kill us all. How can they prevent them if they don't known how the stability of DNA is maintained in the context of thermodynamic cycles of protein biosynthesis and degradation? http://dx.doi.org...ure14121

JVK
Jan 26, 2015
...the complexity of proteins guarantee functionality.


It also enables flexible responses to environmental changes until nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled amino acid substitutions stabilize the DNA in organized genomes. Until then, the complexity allows amino acid substitutions to be replaced during thermodynamic cycles of protein biosynthesis and degradation until a beneficial substitution leads to increased organism-level thermoregulation.

Fixation of amino acid substitutions enables biodiversity in the context of ecological variation that leads to ecological adaptations. The idea that fixed mutations, which perturb protein folding, could be beneficial or could lead to evolution is based on pseudoscientific nonsense.

Jan 27, 2015
@jvk
Here is just one many cases of benevolent mutations. http://phys.org/n...nce.html

How are you going to spin this?

cjn
Jan 27, 2015
Ren:
...I do not care about the appearance of random complex organic molecules because their random combinations and complexity make no sense and can not doing useful work.


First, proteins are products of cellular functions (translation), and no one here is insisting otherwise. To suggest that they are is intellectually dishonest.

Second, complex molecules that do form in the environment do provide useful work. I know you're not a scientist, but if you do a little research you'd learn what lipid bi-layers do -and how they are important in biology. Lipid bi-layers form liposomes, which enable chemistries to occur in somewhat-protected conditions. Lipids do form in the environment naturally, and organize into membranes because they are amphiphilic.
http://en.wikiboo..._Bilayer

cjn
Jan 27, 2015
@Ren
The problem with this conversation is that you're assuming that everything started with functional cells. Until you step outside of your religious self and look at things clinically, you're never going to understand what all of these other commenters are saying.

Just like no one would look at a Tesla Model S and say think that someone spontaneously created the vehicle and its components from random gobs of iron and silica, no one should look at a cell and assume that there weren't fundamental steppingstones that led to it. The Model S was preceded by combustion engine vehicles, advancement in materials technologies, use of lead-acid batteries, etc... Combustion vehicles were preceded by horse drawn carriages, advancements in metallurgy and manufacturing, and research into petroleum. Horse carriages were preceded by horse carts; horse carts were preceded by hand carts; hand carts were preceded by the invention of the axle, and the axle preceded by the development of the wheel.

cjn
Jan 27, 2015
(cont.)
In my example of complex natural molecules performing functions, the natural formation of lipid bi-layers is evidence that controlled areas which support isolated chemistries can form in the absence of life. These simple bi-layers led to the cell membranes, cell walls, nuclear membranes, and a host of different vacuoles and micelles that exist in extant biology.

Once you see that the steppingstones exist, you can ignore the logical fallacy of irreducible complexity.

Jan 27, 2015
Why do people, even reputable scientists, insist that the universe is life-friendly? In fact, the universe is almost entirely lethal to life. Almost all of it is simple space (at least simple from a life point of view). Even the rest of it is full of non-Goldilocks bodies, mostly inferno stars, billions of planetary bodies or moons, almost all of which are life-hostile for various reasons. Even on "life-friendly" planets like Earth, life can exist only on a surface no deeper proportionately, than the skin of an apple, and complex life on even less than that. Rather than being a "complexity machine," the universe is a "killing machine." We'd better preserve those few pockets where life can actually flourish, because the vast universe won't provide very many of them.

Jan 27, 2015
It removes the need for people to be responsible for their actions before the only supreme authority of God and because this the moral collapse happen so quickly in the society simultaneously with collapse of its effective and fair structure. This is disguised desire to escape from responsibility.

Seems to me that giving authority/responsibility to a supreme being (re-someone else) is more of an escape mechanism.
Explain to me why you can't take that responsibility unto yourself? Is it too much for little ol' you?

Jan 27, 2015
This indirectly promotes the evolutionary theory that excludes God from the equation of life. It removes the need for people to be responsible for their actions before the only supreme authority of God and because this the moral collapse happen so quickly in the society simultaneously with collapse of its effective and fair structure
@ren
LOGICAL FALLACY
i had to use caps to get your attention... your whole bible is centered around this very fact: absolution from personal responsibility

evil being done? devil caused it
something wrong in your life? that isn't god... god is there to help you, must be the devil
actual science proved the earth isn't 6-10k years old? devil is using science to fool us all into believing there isn't a god

why is it ok for your religion to absolve personal responsibility? especially when you can't prove the bible is correct

that circular logic is no different than conspiracy theory

Jan 27, 2015
The disintegration of accidentally synthesized complex organic molecules in such environment always comes with greater speed and greater probability than their synthesis.


Wrong. Evaporation is pretty handy for concentrating organic molecules in things like tidal pools and freezing excludes solutes from ice, leaving the remaining water more concentrated.

Regarding lipids- their appearance isn't hypothetical. We've been finding them in carbonaceous chondrites.

This is just a collection of random molecules that are not organized into functional structures


Lipids spontaneously form liposomes in solution. Learn to read.

JVK
Jan 27, 2015
Lipids spontaneously form liposomes in solution. Learn to read.


Only a science idiot would think like that, or tell others to learn to read. Read this, you science idiot.

A quantum theory for the irreplaceable role of docosahexaenoic acid in neural cell signalling throughout evolution http://www.ncbi.n...23206328

Nothing spontaneously forms -- except via the magic of evolutionary theory.

Jan 27, 2015
? Man is what he looks, listens and eats.

And thinks...
I Am.
(all that surrounds me)

Jan 27, 2015
? Man is what he looks, listens and eats.

And thinks...
I Am.
(all that surrounds me)

And all that is within me.
BTW - you forgot touch and smell...:-)

Jan 27, 2015
Nothing spontaneously forms -- except via the magic of evolutionary theory.


HOW THEY FORMED SKIPPY? Non, I mean the stuffs BEFORE there were dependable nutritious aromaphomones..

How did the very first dependable nutritious aromaphomones get formed to get the ball rolling?

I ain't going to give up, so you may as well answer and get it over with Skippy.

Jan 27, 2015
Nothing spontaneously forms -- except via the magic of evolutionary theory.


HOW THEY FORMED SKIPPY? Non, I mean the stuffs BEFORE there were dependable nutritious aromaphomones..

How did the very first dependable nutritious aromaphomones get formed to get the ball rolling?

I ain't going to give up, so you may as well answer and get it over with Skippy.

@Ira
That's the point where he gives up and puts it in a Creator's hands...

Jan 27, 2015

@Ira
That's the point where he gives up and puts it in a Creator's hands...


Well I wish he would hurry up and say that or something silly like so I can move on to other things I want to ask peoples about. Does this couyon really think that if he just don't answer that I will go away? He needs to do more thinking on that one.

Jan 27, 2015
Nothing spontaneously forms -- except via the magic of evolutionary theory.


When you mix lipids in an aqueous solution, they form stable supramolecular structures like miscelles and liposomes. They don't need to be told to do that, it's how they interact with each other based on their molecular structure.

Do you also contest that water forms hexagonal crystal structures when frozen?

Here's MIT's free online biochemistry course. Don't come back until you've completed it and educated yourself.

http://ocw.mit.ed...ic-acid/

Jan 27, 2015
I think James needs to understand that universe doesn't add stuff together using characters on a piece of paper. It has to do it the old fashioned way - geometrically... in 4d...
And non - you don't have to use the metric system...:-)

JVK
Jan 27, 2015
"...through a new National Institutes of Health effort called the 4D Nucleome, researchers will set out to develop more reliable, accurate, and affordable ways to map and interpret the genome's elaborate folds." http://www.scienc...10.short

See my comment at http://comments.s....6217.10

Cell type differentiation is nutrient-dependent. RNA-directed DNA methylation links RNA-mediated amino acid substitutions to cell type differentiation via protein folding during life history transitions. Amino acid substitutions stabilize protein folding; mutations perturb it, during nutrient-dependent theromodynamic cycles of protein biosynthesis and degradation.

Life is physics and chemistry and communication -- http://dx.doi.org...as.12570

The metabolism of nutrients links metabolic networks to genetic networks via species-specific pheromones that control the physiology of reproduction. Simply put, pheromones..."

JVK
Jan 27, 2015
When you mix lipids in an aqueous solution, they form stable supramolecular structures...


You seem have skipped everything I know about quantum physics and chemistry.

Light- and Carbon-Signaling Pathways. Modeling Circuits of Interactions
http://www.plantp...abstract

"...light provides the reducing power for carbon fixation, nitrogen assimilation, amino acid biosynthesis, and other necessary metabolic pathways..."

See https://www.youtu...ure=plcp Shedding light on photosynthesis

Also see: Nothing in Biology Makes Any Sense Except in the Light of Evolution http://www.jstor..../4444260

Please remind everyone you know that if they are looking for a science idiot, most of them can be found here -- and they are the biggest of them all. Here, they compete to display more ignorance than the others. Andrew Jones is winning.

Jan 27, 2015
Anyway, James...
Reason and Morality as a subset of the Universe is the topic here. NOT your fave line of BS...
Your topics are neither reasonable nor moral or even germaine in any way to the article discussion.
Keep it up and you will be asked to leave this site.

Jan 27, 2015
RNA-directed DNA methylation links RNA-mediated amino acid substitutions to cell type differentiation via protein folding during life history transitions. Amino acid substitutions stabilize protein folding; mutations perturb it...

protein changes folding schemata in reaction to a mutation. It does not know the exact proper fold, so it does many (possible into the 10 thousands of) to determine the most correct folding schemata. RNA passes this on to successive generations. If the source of the mutation stays the same for x (apologies - science idiot here - not sure of the exact number) number of generations, the proper reaction will be encoded in DNA.


JVK
Jan 27, 2015
If the source of the mutation stays the same...


No experimental evidence of biologically based cause and effect suggests that mutations are fixed in the DNA of organized genome of any species. Ecological adaptations are manifested as amino acid substitutions that are fixed via the physiology of reproduction.

See, for example: The host metabolite D-serine contributes to bacterial niche specificity through gene selection http://dx.doi.org...2014.242

Jan 27, 2015
You seem have skipped everything I know about quantum physics and chemistry.


If that's the case, then I didn't skip anything. If you knew anything about biophysics, you'd know how lipids react in water. If you knew anything about (bio)chemistry, you'd know what base substitutions can and can't occur as a result of methylation, like I explained here:

http://phys.org/n...ary.html

No experimental evidence of biologically based cause and effect suggests that mutations are fixed


Chelo's experiment does. You know, that one you think doesn't, but you interpreted it completely wrong.

JVK
Jan 27, 2015
What about light-induced amino acid substitutions?

Anytime you tell me I'm wrong, I've cited the literature. Even if Chelo had not proved mutations are not fixed population-wide, the idea that they could be is based on pseudoscientific nonsense. You interpret the literature based on your mutagenesis experiments. I've linked quantum physics, quantum biology, and quantum consciousness in my model.

See also: Electron spin changes during general anesthesia in Drosophila http://www.ncbi.n...4151765/

Dose-Dependent Effects of the Clinical Anesthetic Isoflurane on Octopus vulgaris: A Contribution to Cephalopod Welfare http://www.tandfo...uMckXI6I

Tell me how you link mutations to cell type differentiation in insects to octopuses and we can discuss the work from George Church's group on synthetic amino acids that they substituted to fix cell type differentiation.

Jan 27, 2015
@jvk

For the 6th time I'm asking you to respond to a study on beneficial mutations.

Of course I'm not really expecting a response, considering your lack of integrity.
http://phys.org/n...nce.html

Jan 27, 2015
What about light-induced amino acid substitutions?


You mean those ones you never proved were induced by light? The takeaway message of that paper was that a substitution changes how a protein reacted to light. It didn't say that light CAUSED said substitution. That's just you drawing an unsupported conclusion and claiming it as fact.

Even if Chelo had not proved mutations are not fixed population-wide, the idea that they could be is based on pseudoscientific nonsense.


How does that change their observations? They OBSERVED mutations being fixed.

Jan 27, 2015
No experimental evidence of biologically based cause and effect suggests that mutations are fixed in the DNA of organized genome of any species. Ecological adaptations are manifested as amino acid substitutions that are fixed via the physiology of reproduction.

Man, are you a context distortionist...

I didn't SAY they were fixed in DNA. I said, if the mutation SOURCE was the same. That means - the cause of...
Amino acid substitutions (attempted adaptations) are made and passed on to next generation. The next generation gets to "test" if it was successful via survival. )("Sins of the fathers" and all that...) if it goes more than x number of generations (without generating mutations of their own) , it gets written in the DNA "book"...
Anyway, microbes and humans are two completely different animals - microbes are single cell and human is a collection of trillions of (more or less) cooperating cells...

Jan 27, 2015
Stupid question of the day goes to:

http://perfumingt...crornas/

Viruses consist of coding DNA or RNA (miRNAs are non-coding) surrounded by a protein capsule. So no, viruses are not miRNAs.

Jan 27, 2015
What I really wanna know is - what animal is he sourcing his pheromones from for his product?

JVK
Jan 28, 2015
Viruses consist of coding DNA or RNA (miRNAs are non-coding) surrounded by a protein capsule. So no, viruses are not miRNAs.


Thanks. The link from viruses to mutations can now be compared to the link from nutrients and microRNAs to amino acid substitutions that stabilize DNA in the organized genomes.

I knew I could get a science idiot like you to answer the question, and only science idiots are capable of destroying the entirety of their ridiculous theories by looking at the experimental evidence that differentiates viruses and microRNAs. Thanks for inspiring the science idiots of the world to examine experimental evidence that details how cell type differentiation occurs.

Watch as they continue to ignore it -- like you have, as others continue to laugh at your ignorance.

JVK
Jan 28, 2015
For the 6th time I'm asking you to respond to a study on beneficial mutations.


Beneficial mutations can only be viewed in the context of automagical cell type differentiation.

Serious scientists have trouble responding to ridiculous claims about beneficial mutations, since there is no such thing. The Laws of Physics, and everything known about the chemistry of protein folding prevent perturbed protein folding caused by mutations from contributing to anything except physiopathology until they are removed from entire populations of species, which often occurs with gene loss after the DNA in organized genomes has been stabilized by amino acid substitutions, like the one that lets some populations survive in areas where malaria is endemic. It's a vitamin D-dependent variant known as Hemoglobin S.

JVK
Jan 28, 2015
"These beetles have provided us with credible preliminary evidence for non-adaptive evolution," says Dr Tierney."

http://www.scienc...3430.htm

These beetles also attest to the fact that evolutionary theorists are science idiots who cannot link the sun's biological energy from ecological variation to ecological adaptation. That leads the science idiots to claim that:

The takeaway message of that paper was that a substitution changes how a protein reacted to light. It didn't say that light CAUSED said substitution. That's just you drawing an unsupported conclusion and claiming it as fact.


Single-residue insertion switches the quaternary structure and exciton states of cryptophyte light-harvesting proteins http://www.pnas.o...abstract

What's worse is that the science idiots will, no doubt, continue to claim amino acid substitutions are mutations.

JVK
Jan 28, 2015
what animal is he sourcing his pheromones from for his product?


Androstenol elicits changes in luteinizing hormone and mood in women; androsterone is a primate-specific indicator of male human reproductive fitness. In combination, we showed they influenced women's flirtatious behavior and the attractiveness of the man wearing the combination of synthetic chemicals.

In works by others, the fatty acids known as 'copulins' influenced levels of testosterone in males, and appeared to also influence their behavior.

The studies that detailed cause and effect in species from microbes to man are well known to serious scientists, but continue to lead to claims that human pheromones do not exist because the stereotypical response of insects cannot be demonstrated in mammals.

The existence of human pheromones destroys both the evolution industry and the Big Bang cosmology industry. That explains "A Fear of Pheromones" http://dx.doi.org...22850708

Jan 28, 2015
The existence of human pheromones destroys both the evolution industry and the Big Bang cosmology industry


Skippy I'm going to ask again because you miss him before. How does human aromapheromones make the big bang wrong? Wasn't anybody around at the big bang so the big bang didn't need any stinky love potions or nutritious dependable smelly things to control the bang.

Why you think that smelly things are so important back before there was anything around with the nose to smell them?

You know I am going to keep asking so you might as answer and get him over with.

Jan 28, 2015
You did not answer my question. what is the source of your Androgenal pheromones? Human males? Pigs? Horses? "synthesized"?

Jan 28, 2015
You seem have skipped everything I know about quantum physics and chemistry
@jk
well YOU sure as heck aren't offering any tidbits of wisdom either... you still haven't actually given the mechanism that you claim makes the changes nor have you stated any specific details about the quantum physics, properties or chemistry other than repeating your "nutrient dependent" stinky pheromone mantra, especially regarding
light-induced amino acid substitutions?
so when are you going to share your knowledge?
Please remind everyone you know that if they are looking for a science idiot...here
I tell LOTS of peple this very thing... the thing is, they all tend to point at YOU and people like you pushing pseudoscience

at least you are famous for being the most prolific and stupidest poster on PO with regard to biology, mutations and ESPECIALLY with regard to Physics and biophysics!

again, a claim
light-induced
but NO comprehension of method/manner

Jan 28, 2015
Beneficial mutations can only be viewed in the context of automagical cell type differentiation.

Serious scientists have trouble responding to ridiculous claims about beneficial mutations, since there is no such thing. The Laws of Physics, and everything known about the chemistry of protein folding prevent perturbed protein folding caused by mutations
and THERE you have it folks!

jk's MODEL is nothing but AUTOMAGICAL! (in his own words too)
because his model causes MUTATIONS (remember when I asked "DOES your model make any changes to the nucleotide sequence of the genome of an organism, virus, or extrachromosomal genetic element?
This is a yes or no answer" (this is the DEFINITION of mutation) to which you answered
YES!
--Thanks for asking
and he claims they are beneficial, then LOGICALLY we can conclude HIS MODEL IS AUTOMAGICAL

Human males?
@WGyre
are you thinking what i am thinking?
check the size of his forearms to be sure...

Jan 28, 2015
I knew I could get a science idiot like you to answer the question


Stupid questions aren't hard to answer. At one point, you were actually under the impression that viruses could be miRNAs. That shows a distinct lack of understanding of the structure and function of both viruses and miRNAs, something you claim expertise in. Asking that question is like an astrogeologist legitimately asking if the moon is made of cheese. It seems like a joke at first until you realize they're serious and then it's just sad.

JVK
Jan 28, 2015
At one point, you were actually under the impression that viruses could be miRNAs.


When was that?

http://perfumingt...crornas/

In the blog post I wrote: "Amino acid substitutions in viruses are linked to amino acid substitutions that differentiate the cell type of species from microbes to man. See for review: Kohl (2013)"

The link from viruses to amino acid substitutions that differentiate all cell types of all individuals of all species is microRNAs.

That makes it obvious that viruses are not microRNAs and that you are a science idiot. Indeed, you are the joke.

You seriously believe that mutations lead to evolution more than a decade after Greg Bear integrated my model into two science fiction novels that detailed the virus-driven evolution of a new human species that communicated with human pheromones.

Jan 28, 2015
@jvk



You seriously believe that mutations lead to evolution more than a decade after Greg Bear integrated my model into two science fiction novels that detailed the virus-driven evolution of a new human species that communicated with human pheromones.


Science fiction in lieu of empirical evidence?

I know you're desperate but then again your comment is the funniest thing I've read all day.

JVK
Jan 28, 2015
Nothing in Biology Makes Any Sense Except in the Light of Evolution http://www.jstor..../4444260

"...the so-called alpha chains of hemoglobin have identical sequences of amino acids in man and the chimpanzee, but they differ in a single amino acid (out of 141) in the gorilla."

Greg Bear's "fact-checking" was exemplary. The only fiction is what science idiots have been taught to believe about mutations and the evolution of increasing organismal complexity via perturbed protein folding.

Bear's fact-checking, also led to his 2004 presentation to the American Philosophical Society, and this video of his speech: http://www.jstor..../1558229 (links to first page of article) video: https://www.youtu...NcMR_-RU When Genes Go Walkabout

Jan 28, 2015
When was that?


Blog post title: "Are viruses microRNAs?"

Are you that blind in addition to your memory loss?

JVK
Jan 28, 2015
At one point, you were actually under the impression that viruses could be miRNAs.


No. I asked the question so that the obvious answer would be elicited and I could then address the foolishness of those who claim viral microRNAs induce beneficial mutations.

See Blog post title: Are viruses microRNAs? (2)

http://perfumingt...ornas-2/

I've also included more information about light-induced amino acid substitutions.

Jan 29, 2015
Who do you think would claim miRNAs induce mutations? All they're responsible for is post-transcriptional regulation. Everyone knows that.

You still have not presented any evidence showing light causing substitutions.

Jan 29, 2015
You seem have skipped everything I know about quantum physics and chemistry

Mr. Cole
Do you have a degree in either of those subjects?
Or did you decide they couldn't teach you anything on those topics, either?
What's worse is that the science idiots will, no doubt, continue to claim amino acid substitutions are mutations.

I always thought they were the RESULT of mutations...
Therefore - mutagenic...


JVK
Jan 29, 2015
Ren82 addresses what is understood by serious scientists about the role of nutrient-dependent amino acid substitutions. They have been placed into the context of what is known about NUTRIGENOMICS http://medicalxpr...lth.html

They have also been placed into the context of what is known about PHARMACOGENOMICS https://www.youtu...G_9EEeeA

My model links nutrigenomics to pharmacogenomics. Epigenetically effected cell type differentiation that occurs during development alters morphological and behavioral phenotypes via conserved molecular mechanisms that link metabolic networks to genetic networks in species from microbes to man.

Is there an alternative to this atoms to ecosystems approach to epigenesis and homeostasis, which attests to creation? If so, how does ecological variation lead to ecological adaptation manifested in biodiversity? Has anyone detailed the mechanisms that link physics and chemistry?

Jan 29, 2015
Mr. Cole
Do you have a degree in either of those subjects?


@ Whydening Skippy. How you are?

JVK-Skippy does not have the degree in anything or any subjects. He could not finish the school. He joined a club for lab technicians who test the blood in the hospital basement and that club let's them call them selfs the scientist so they can jack up the prices for the blood tests.

Or did you decide they couldn't teach you anything on those topics, either?


They tried but he wanted to be the science idiot so they gave him a grade in that.

And I have not forget to ask him how the hydrogen atoms at the beginning of the universe can smell each others energies like he told me they did. He's not getting my messages so maybe you can remind him I'm still asking about that.

JVK
Jan 29, 2015
Who do you think would claim miRNAs induce mutations? All they're responsible for is post-transcriptional regulation. Everyone knows that.


Everyone knows you are a science idiot. Why don't you know that?

Excerpt: "Viral microRNAs are known to prevent host cell death, promote host cell growth and dampen the host cell's viral defenses." http://medicalxpr...man.html

That's how they've been linked from mutations to cell type proliferation in lymphomas, but also in other cancers. It's why others are "Combating Evolution to Fight Disease" http://www.scienc...88.short

Why are you contributing to the ignorance of others about physiopathology with your comments to phys.org? Do you want others to needlessly continue to suffer and die? For the sake of humanity, stop touting your pseudoscientific nonsense. You're killing people, albeit indirectly.

JVK
Jan 29, 2015
You still have not presented any evidence showing light causing substitutions.

how the hydrogen atoms at the beginning of the universe can smell each others energies


There is no point to attempts to explain how recognition of differences in light photons and dark photons leads to immune system recognition via olfaction in animals. See for example: Molecular Vibration-Sensing Component in Human Olfaction or the news report on this concept http://www.bbc.co...21150047

Any explanations that do not involve mutations and evolution will be challenged by those who have been taught to believe in pseudoscientific nonsense. They cannot unlearn what they've been taught, which is why they cannot change their ridiculous beliefs.

did you decide they couldn't teach you anything on those topics, either?


YES! Thanks for asking. No one that starts with mutations can teach a serious scientist about anything.

JVK
Jan 29, 2015
"...de Vries discovered that in the offspring even of thoroughly pure-bred stocks, a very small number of individuals, say two or three in tens of thousands, turn up with small but 'jump-like' changes, the expression 'jump-like' not meaning that the change is so very considerable, but that there is a discontinuity inasmuch as there are no intermediate forms between the unchanged and the few changed. De Vries called that a mutation. The significant fact is the discontinuity. It reminds a physicist of quantum theory -no intermediate energies occurring between two neighbouring energy levels. He would be inclined to call de Vries's mutation theory, figuratively, the quantum theory of biology." -- What is Life?: The Intellectual Pertinence of Erwin Schrödinger (1944)

What most science idiots learned to believe is based on a definition from 1904 linked to assumptions about natural selection and evolution. Serious scientists cannot be taught to believe in ridiculous theories.

JVK
Jan 29, 2015
Re: "the quantum theory of biology"

"JVK...does not have the degree in anything or any subjects. He could not finish the school.

After by-pass testing the first two years of college, I found I could not bear to be taught by science idiots. Technical training in medical laboratory science led to my qualifications as a Clinical Laboratory Supervisor (which typically requires a masters degree - in Nevada).

Enough about me. Let's hear what others learned about quantum biology from their college professors. Who taught you about "A quantum theory for the irreplaceable role of docosahexaenoic acid in neural cell signalling throughout evolution" http://www.ncbi.n...23206328

I'm guessing, but think you were taught to believe that "...genomic conservation and constraint-breaking mutation is the ultimate source of all biological innovations and the enormous amount of biodiversity in this world." (p. 199) http://www.amazon...99661731

Jan 29, 2015
Again: You still have not presented any evidence showing light causing substitutions.

JVK
Jan 29, 2015
I've told you before. Do your own homework!

Others already are pirating my representations of RNA-mediated amino acid substitutions for use in their ridiculous theories. You can learn from Matti Pitkanen how he did that.

See his review that links RNA-mediated events to the simultaneous emergence of hens and eggs. His Topological Geometrodynamics (TGD) is a feeble attempt to link a ridiculous theory of everything, not forgetting consciousness, to RNA-mediated cell type differentiation. http://matpitka.b...tor.html

"In zero energy ontology (ZEO) self-organization is replaced with self-organization by quantum jump sequence leading to the emergence of not only 3-D spatial patters but also of 4-D behavioral patterns..."

The quantum jumps are de Vries "mutations." Like you, he links them to self-organization of morphological phenotypes, but also to behavioral phenotypes. Like you, he is a science idiot.

Jan 29, 2015
how the hydrogen atoms at the beginning of the universe can smell each others energies


There is no point to attempts to explain how recognition of differences in light photons and dark photons leads to immune system recognition via olfaction in animals.


Cher you are either stupid or you tell the BIG lie. You know I did not ask about leading to immune system for animals. I ask how hydrogen atoms can smell the other hydrogen atoms's energies like you said they can.

But now I got to ask too what is the dark photon to tell apart from the light photon? I thought all photons were the same, they just wiggle at different frequencies.

Cher, giving the gobbledygook answers is only making you not able to answer the questions stand out more for the peoples who you brought in by trying to have the Google-Skippy make you famous. He is making you famous alright but not the way you hoped.

Jan 29, 2015
"JVK...does not have the degree in anything or any subjects. He could not finish the school.


After by-pass testing the first two years of college, I found I could not bear to be taught by science idiots.


Yeah, I know what you mean. We got those down here in Louisiana too. We call you guys drop-outs.

Technical training in medical laboratory science led to my qualifications


How about that, what the coincidence again? We got that too down here in Louisiana. We call that on-the-job-training in the hospital basement to learn how to put the blood tubes in one end of the machine and take them out the other end.

Is there also where you learn about the hydrogens with noses and the stinky love potions and the dark photons? From your blood testing machines?


Jan 29, 2015
@Whydening Gyre

In our deceptive world university diploma and degree is no guarantee for true knowledge.

No, but it definitely increases your odds...
Therefore rely on your own research and logic, rather than on experts opinion and theories.

I'm a firm believer in "If you want something done right, do it yourself". However, only if I have the correct info. That is where University and degrees come in...



Jan 29, 2015
Think how easy is to break a complex machine or functional structure. And how much maintenance it requires. How fragile is life in the flesh on Earth and how much is dependent on thousands of factors. Much easier is to break something complicated than to fix it. What is needed in order for a bacterium to stop functioning properly even though there are millions of DNA base pairs and complex functional structures? It is enough to stop one element of its metabolism to stop functioning properly. Living organisms are very complex biochemical structures and require dozens of components to work properly. Without these components can neither maintain constant internal environment and metabolism nor multiply.

Start with the SIMPLEST machine (IE - a hydrogen atom) and work up (via addition). Patterns develop on their own. Some patterns are robust enuff to survive longer - most aren't. Even the pattern of maintainance...
It's called Evolution.

Jan 29, 2015
I've told you before. Do your own homework!


When YOU make a claim, it's up to YOU to support it. YOU are the one that claimed light causes substitutions. I have searched and all I've found are the two links that you've provided. You're the only person that's ever used the term "light-induced amino acid substitution".

Let's take a look at your first link: http://www.pnas.o...abstract

They never say that light caused the insertion. In fact, this statement is made in the discussion:

The emergence of two forms appears to have been caused by a single insertional/deletional mutation in the new cryptophyte α subunit.


The second is this one: http://pubs.acs.o...p409982f

The picture alone tells you what this paper is about. It's about light-induced conformation changes.


Jan 29, 2015
Now, if you're claiming that light caused that insertion, then you need to back it up. We know how indel mutations occur. They're due to slipped-strand mutations during replication.

http://nar.oxford...078.full

As with all other types of mutations, indels are implicated in both positive (light harvesting example) and negative outcomes.

http://nar.oxford...290.full

If you have evidence they're caused by light, present it. Otherwise, you have none and your claim is false.

JVK
Jan 29, 2015
One science idiot said to another:
Patterns develop on their own.


The other responded:
Light-Induced Opening and Closing of the Intramolecular Hydrogen Bond in Glyoxylic Acid


This pattern is typical of communication among science idiots who known nothing about physics, chemistry, or molecular biology.

They see a pattern in the formation of molecules and attribute it to the evolution of the molecules even when light supplies the biological energy that links physics to chemistry and molecular biology.

Jan 29, 2015
One science idiot said to another:
Patterns develop on their own.


The other responded:
Light-Induced Opening and Closing of the Intramolecular Hydrogen Bond in Glyoxylic Acid


This pattern is typical of communication among science idiots who known nothing about physics, chemistry, or molecular biology.

They see a pattern in the formation of molecules and attribute it to the evolution of the molecules even when light supplies the biological energy that links physics to chemistry and molecular biology.

James - you are felaciating your own pheromones....

Jan 30, 2015
Anyway... can we get back on topic here?
The Universe doesn't CREATE reason or morality - we do.
The Universe just had the misfortune(?) of creating US...

JVK
Jan 30, 2015
James - you are felaciating your own pheromones....


I'm addressing the experimental evidence, which is what serious scientists do. They link physics to chemistry and biology via the transfer of information that links the epigenetic landscape to the physical landscape of DNA in organized genomes via the conserved molecular mechanisms of cell type differentiation in species from microbes to man.

See for example: Ancient Transposable Elements Transformed the Uterine Regulatory Landscape and Transcriptome during the Evolution of Mammalian Pregnancy http://www.cell.c...)01105-X

See for comparison: Mutation-Driven Evolution http://www.amazon...99661731 or anything Andrew Jones (aka anonymous_9001) has ever claimed.

See also: Scientific method: Defend the integrity of physics http://www.nature...-1.16535

JVK
Jan 30, 2015
Patterns develop on their own.


No, they do not! Only science idiots think they can ignore what's known about quantum mechanics and general relativity. That's why Ellis and Silk wrote about defending the integrity of physics from science idiots who believe that "patterns develop on their own."

https://medium.co...1e1e3eee

Jan 30, 2015
Patterns develop on their own.


No, they do not! Only science idiots think they can ignore what's known about quantum mechanics and general relativity. That's why Ellis and Silk wrote about defending the integrity of physics from science idiots who believe that "patterns develop on their own."

Cole,
The Universe adds "one plus one" in a with a geometric fashion, not sequentially and without "thought". it doesn't really care the value/size of any single "one", it just adds. That causes some to slow down, some to speed up. That's what creates the patterns (on their own).
You are not understanding the Universe' additive methodology. You keep thinking that the patterns are a function of human-like intelligence vs that simple process.
Think of it as a snowball rolling down a hill of varying topologies.
Now. Get out of here with yer off topic stuff.

Jan 30, 2015
Patterns develop on their own.


No, they do not!


Here's a page from Caltech about snow crystals.

http://www.its.ca...otos.htm

Note the rotational pattern. The only thing making that pattern is the hexagonal crystal structure that water molecules take when they become solid. Lipids form liposomes because they're amphiphilic. Structure guides function and patterns.

Jan 30, 2015
Here's a page from Caltech about snow crystals.

http://www.its.ca...otos.htm

Note the rotational pattern. The only thing making that pattern is the hexagonal crystal structure that water molecules take when they become solid. Lipids form liposomes because they're amphiphilic. Structure guides function and patterns.

Anon,
You know, of course, that he will ask what guides structure, don't you?
The simple answer of course is smaller functional patterns...)

JVK
Jan 30, 2015
Lipids form liposomes because they're amphiphilic. Structure guides function and patterns.


Let's take that back to quantum physics. Do any science idiots see a pattern here?

A quantum theory for the irreplaceable role of docosahexaenoic acid in neural cell signalling throughout evolution http://www.ncbi.n...23206328

Where did the structure come from that guides function and patterns? Classical biophysics has no ready explanation for this but the role of DHA in neuronal signalling and its high concentration in the photoreceptor can be explained if it functions as an electron tunnelling device providing quantised signals.

That likelihood is linked to hydrogen tunneling in "The advent of tunneling in α-ketocarboxylic acids dominates their conformational preferences and conceivably also the reactivity of biologically and pharmacologically relevant acid congeners." http://dx.doi.org...p503633m

JVK
Jan 30, 2015
Anyway... can we get back on topic here?


I understand why you are panic-stricken. Calm down. Everyone knows that if molecules didn't evolve and species don't evolve, the universe doesn't create morality.

For example, morality doesn't evolve from snowflakes. Their thermodynamic stability is tenuous. Morals seem to require increasing organismal complexity that is achieved when nutrient-dependent amino acid substitutions stabilize DNA in organized genomes.

Alternatively, I may be missing something that science idiots think snowflakes and DNA have in common that enables the evolution of humans from snowflakes.

Jan 31, 2015
Alternatively, I may be missing something that science idiots think snowflakes and DNA have in common that enables the evolution of humans from snowflakes.

How bout let's start with -
They are both patterns...
Or they both start with hydrogen...
They both are thermodynamically generated...
and on and on and on...

Jan 31, 2015
Let's take that back to quantum physics. Do any science idiots see a pattern here?

See? A perfect example how patterns develop on their own...

Feb 02, 2015
Anyway... can we get back on topic here?
The Universe doesn't CREATE reason or morality - we do.
The Universe just had the misfortune(?) of creating US...
Human-haters are immoral.

JVK
Feb 02, 2015
http://phys.org/n...ase.html

There it is again. A pattern that links microbes to man via the biophysically constrained nutrient-dependent chemistry of protein folding during thermodynamic cycles of protein biosynthesis and degradation.

Feb 10, 2015
What most science idiots learned to believe is based on a definition from 1904
what most idiot failures who cannot comprehend the scientific method or modern science and how things work don't understand is that definitions, just like science, are/is not as static as they think... you are INTENTIONALLY misrepresenting the after being SHOWN that you are incorrect in your ASSumption of the 1904 definition, which BTW is NOWHERE NEAR the same definition that is used currently in the lexicon
and that makes you A PSEUDOSCIENCE poster
Do your own homework!
Typical PSEUDOSCIENCE claim
you made the claim but now you cannot prove it!
why is that, eh?
I'm addressing the experimental evidence
No, you are INTERPRETING it... and wrongly too!
because you have no education and cannot LEARN
Let's take that back to quantum physics
But you don't even comprehend the BIOLOGY and that is YOUR chosen field!
QM/P is WAY out of your league!

http://sci-ence.o...-flags2/

Feb 10, 2015
Here's a page from Caltech about snow crystals.

http://www.its.ca...otos.htm

Note the rotational pattern. The only thing making that pattern is the hexagonal crystal structure that water molecules take when they become solid. Lipids form liposomes because they're amphiphilic. Structure guides function and patterns.

Anon,
You know, of course, that he will ask what guides structure, don't you?
The simple answer of course is smaller functional patterns...)
Structure is the most fundamental thing in quantum mechanics

JVK
Feb 10, 2015
NOWHERE NEAR the same definition that is used currently


The definitions have been changed to protect the science idiots who believe definitions can be used to establish biologically-based cause and effect.

Now the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is being altered to protect the theoretical physicists who have failed to explain the obvious anti-entropic effects manifested as the epigenetically-effected organized genomes of species from microbes to man.

http://www.pnas.o...abstract

JVK
Feb 10, 2015
What most biologically uninformed science idiots don't realize is that theoretical physicists and evolutionary theorists have on thing in common. They have no experimental evidence, so they use definitions and assumptions about cause and effect. That way, their ridiculous theories can change each time experimental evidence of biologically-based cause and effect shows how much pseudoscientific nonsense is included in the ridiculous theories.

A New Physics Theory of Life https://www.quant...of-life/

No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning
http://phys.org/n...rse.html

Feb 10, 2015
...evolutionary theorists have on thing in common. They have no experimental evidence
@jk
and again, you show how stupid you are, that you don't know squat about the scientific method and that you are truly a crackpot pseudoscience advocate pushing a known religious outlook... for starters, this link alone debunks your stupidity about lack of evidence:
http://www.talkor...comdesc/

when you can refute all the referenced material in the link as well as the linked pages in the outline, then you can talk ...
but until then, all you have is:
-a failed education which you admit to
-a failed perfume for stupid rejects who believe in magic
-a failed religion promoting a farce magic
-a failed reject philosophy which is debunked by actual science (which is continually debunked by Anon repeatedly in these comments)

PS- just because it is published in an article on line doesn't mean it is proven science - ANOTHER PSEUDOSCIENCE promotion tactic

EPIC FAIL

JVK
Feb 11, 2015
when you can refute all the referenced material in the link as well as the linked pages in the outline, then you can talk ...


"[W]hat Haldane, Fisher, Sewell Wright, Hardy, Weinberg et al. did was invent.... Evolution was defined as "changes in gene frequencies in natural populations." The accumulation of genetic mutations was touted to be enough to change one species to another.... Assumptions, made but not verified, were taught as fact." - Mazur

Life is physics and chemistry and communication http://dx.doi.org...as.12570

Scientific Seeker Stuart Kauffman on Free Will, God, ESP and Other Mysteries
http://blogs.scie...steries/

Physicist George Ellis Knocks Physicists for Knocking Philosophy, Falsification, Free Will
http://blogs.scie...ee-will/

Feb 11, 2015
As with all your quotes, you're misinterpreting that Mazur quote. All they're saying is that mutations ALONE aren't responsible for speciation. As I've repeatedly pointed out to you, Noble advocates for modifications to Darwinism, not complete replacement. In that same interview, Noble said:

if there is variation, then there can be selection. If there can be selection on variants, then some will survive and some won't. In some sense this is a necessary truth, isn't it?

JVK
Feb 11, 2015
In short, nobody is saying (well, I'm not at least) that evolution is a teleological process leaning toward a particular end but there's certainly logically a possibility that the evolutionary process is responsive to the environment in a way that is not random. That would not be part of standard Darwinian evolution and population genetics.

http://www.huffin...437.html

Selection of food is part of Darwin's 'conditions of life.' It is not part of population genetics, or Big Bang cosmology. It links nutrient-uptake from quantum biology to metabolism and the physiology of reproduction via pheromones.

If there was another model for that, you would tell us about it -- or someone who is not a science idiot would tell us about it.

What serious scientists are saying is that my model is THE only model of biologically based cause and effect.

Feb 11, 2015
Selection of food is part of Darwin's 'conditions of life.' It is not part of population genetics, or Big Bang cosmology. It links nutrient-uptake from quantum biology to metabolism and the physiology of reproduction via pheromones.
first of all, dipstick... Darwin had no idea whatsoever of anything quantum, so you are again making an ASSesment that is based upon interpretation, not actual science or intelligence

What serious scientists are saying is that my model is THE only model of biologically based cause and effect
no, they're not
your model simply rewords the term MUTATION into a convoluted pheromone induced stupid word salad which is not 100% accurate nor does it represent all changes

you really SHOULD READ and try to comprehend Jones assessment of your "model" http://www.ncbi.n...4049134/

maybe you will learn something
(unless your stupidity and narcissism kick in, like above)

Feb 11, 2015
If you want to coin a new term, then coin a NEW term rather than altering one somebody else has already established. Darwin knew what he meant when he came up with it. It's very clear he was referring to the environment. I've told you this at least a dozen times.

What serious scientists are saying is that my model is THE only model of biologically based cause and effect.


They say that word for word? Sample a few and ask them if that's what they're really saying.

JVK
Feb 12, 2015
What new term do you claim I am trying to coin?

Darwin knew what he meant when he came up with it. It's very clear he was referring to the environment.


Serious scientists know that the epigenetic landscape and "environment" are synonymous. They are linked to the physical landscape of DNA in organized genomes of species from microbes to man via nutrient-dependent RNA-directed DNA methylation and RNA-mediated amino acid substitutions.

The amino acid substitutions are fixed in the organized genomes via the physiology of nutrient-dependent reproduction, which is controlled by the metabolism of nutrients to species-specific pheromones.

Darwin's 'conditions of life' for any animal species are nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled. His 'conditions of life' are linked to animals from the sun's biological energy via amino acid substitutions in plants.

What kind of science idiot puts the links into the context of mutations and evolution?

JVK
Feb 12, 2015
Sample a few and ask them if that's what they're really saying.


That's not necessary.
http://phys.org/n...ene.html "...breaks Gregor Mendel's century-old "law of segregation," which states that you have an equal probability of inheriting each of two copies of every gene from both parents."

http://phys.org/n...ics.html
"...there are additional second laws which constrain the way in which disorder can increase."

Anyone who understands links from physics to chemistry and quantum biology realizes that the need to change Mendel's Law and the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics arose because the claims of theoretical physicists and evolutionary theories are based on pseudoscientific nonsense.

Anyone who cannot grasp the concept of the biophysically constrained chemistry of protein folding is biologically uninformed, and may also be a science idiot who refuses to learn.

Feb 12, 2015
Serious scientists know that the epigenetic landscape and "environment" are synonymous.


http://www.biomed...509/5/85

Your methylation pattern is not the same thing as your ecosystem.

Darwin's 'conditions of life' for any animal species are nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled.


Humidity, for example, is not nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled. Topography is not nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled.

That's not necessary.


Considering none of the people we've already contacted agree with you, it definitely is.

Feb 12, 2015
Serious scientists know that the epigenetic landscape and "environment" are synonymous.


http://www.biomed...509/5/85

Your methylation pattern is not the same thing as your ecosystem.

Darwin's 'conditions of life' for any animal species are nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled.


Humidity, for example, is not nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled. Topography is not nutrient-dependent and pheromone-controlled.

That's not necessary.


Considering none of the people we've already contacted agree with you, it definitely is.


Aww crap gave you 1 star by accident.

Feb 13, 2015
@jk
What kind of science idiot puts the links into the context of mutations and evolution?
YOU DO... when you pronmote your own model, moron!
Sample a few and ask them if that's what they're really saying
That's not necessary
yes, it is
they may not be discussing EXACTLY what you are lying about here
nor do the articles specifically mention you, so your links are irrelevant
so like Anon says
Considering none of the people we've already contacted agree with you, it definitely is
TOO RIGHT
you fail epically when trying to "translate" other work in your own words, meaning you do NOT know what you are talking about
THAT is what pseudoscience acolytes do.... try to TRANSLATE stuff in their own delusional light
and you are the master of delusional translation which is nowhere near accurate, as proven by Lenski as well as Extavour, and SO many more!

epic fail for jk
AGAIN

Feb 13, 2015
If you want a rib-splitting laugh check out the last sentence of @jvk's comment.

http://medicalxpr...l#ajTabs

JVK
Feb 13, 2015
Here's the sentence:

Excerpt: "Smell is the dominant sense in many animals, including humans, and meetings between individuals usually begin with a period of intense mutual sniffing."

Here's where it came from:
https://theconver...uy-37601

See also the publication history for S. Craig Roberts, the co-author of the article:
http://scholar.go...as_sdtp=

Feb 13, 2015
Here's the sentence
@jk
we read it already... it's CRAP
Here's where it came from
unfortunately, that is NOT a scientific reference, nor is it a reputable scientific publication
NOR was your attempts to link youtube in the Medical Express site
EPIC FAIL
See also the publication history for
so AGAIN< you are making blanket statements without a specific reference, but simply making a CLAIM based upon your HUNCH which is supported by some random ARTICLE posted on line?

that is called Personal Conjecture you idiot
NOT SCIENCE

unless, of course, you have justification by linking a SPECIFIC study that suports your conclusions?

NO?

imagine that!
you are posting more pseudoscience!
and here all this time i was trying to prove that old stupid dogs COULD learn something new!

EPIC FAIL
AGAIN

@Vietvet
THANKS for that!
100STARS!

JVK
Feb 13, 2015
http://time.com/3...ve-life/

Excerpt 1) "...there's some preliminary evidence that pheromones might be a potential X factor for attraction and fertility."

Excerpt 2) "...no two people experience the olfactory world in exactly the same way. Add in all of the other complexities of attraction..."

Human pheromones, epigenetics, physiology, and the development of animal behavior http://f1000.com/...ary/1387

Main conclusion:
When he was wearing the mixture compared to when he wore the diluent, women were more likely to make eye contact (t (12) = 3.43, p = 0.01; IRR: r = 0.964, p = 0.01). They also laughed more (t (12) = 5.20, p < 0.01; IRR: r = 0.810, p = 0.01), and they subsequently rated themselves as being more attracted to him (t (12) = 2.786, p = 0.016).Our results combine the known effects of androstenol on LH and on mood with a likely behavioral affect of androsterone.

JVK
Feb 13, 2015
"...new research suggests that your nose can outperform your eyes and ears, which can discriminate between several million colors and about half a million tones. "It's time to give our sense of smell the recognition it deserves," said Vosshall."

http://www.brainf...e-brain/

Vosshall's group also published two papers that differentiate between how mutations perturb protein folding and lead to loss of function, but amino acid substitutions lead to the de novo creation of olfactory receptor genes in mosquitoes. Conserved molecular mechanisms of nutrient-dependent pheromone-controlled reproduction link gene losses and gains from ecological variation and the de novo creation of olfactory receptor genes to ecological adaptations manifested in the morphological and behavioral phenotypes of all invertebrates and vertebrates.

Feb 15, 2015
how mutations perturb protein folding and lead to loss of function
and again, just to prove you a compete science idiot and incapable of reading

NOT ALL MUTATIONS ARE NEGATIVE
http://myxo.css.m...dex.html

http://www.extavourlab.com/

epic fail for jk the creationist

JVK
Feb 15, 2015
Ahuja, A. and Extavour, C.G. Patterns of molecular evolution of the germ line specification gene oskar suggest that a novel domain may contribute to functional divergence in Drosophila. Development, Genes and Evolution 224(2): 65-77 (2014)

"oskar is not highly conserved across animals. It is instead a novel gene that evolved in the lineage leading to insects (Ewen-Campen et al. 2012), and may have facilitated the evolution of germ plasm in holometabolous insects (those that undergo true metamorphosis) (Lynch et al. 2011). oskar orthologs have been identified to date only from flies and mosquitoes..."

Vosshall's group has linked experience-dependent de novo creation of olfactory receptor genes across species to the differences in morphological and behavioral phenotypes.

Her group has linked mutations to to failed ecological adaptations. I've repeatedly cited and linked to the published works that confirm these facts.

JVK
Feb 15, 2015
Genome evolution and adaptation in a long-term experiment with Escherichia coli
http://www.nature...480.html
Jeffrey E. Barrick... Richard E. Lenski...

"In particular, beneficial substitutions were surprisingly uniform over time, whereas neutral substitutions were highly variable."

Amino acid substitutions are beneficial; mutations perturb protein folding and may lead to pathophysiology, but not to the evolution of increasing organismal complexity.

Feb 15, 2015
mutations perturb protein folding and may lead to pathophysiology, but not to the evolution of increasing organismal complexity.
@jk
AAAAAand ANOTHER EPIC FAILURE of jk and his creationist diatribe!

ok, so... if
mutations perturb protein folding and may lead to pathophysiology, but not to the evolution of increasing organismal complexity
THEN - WHY do you promote MUTATIONS as beneficial in your model?
remember when i asked
DOES your model make any changes to the nucleotide sequence of the genome of an organism, virus, or extrachromosomal genetic element?
This is a yes or no answer
(this is the DEFINITION of mutation) to which you answered
YES!
--Thanks for asking
doesn't that mean that, by definition, your own model is nothing but PSEUDOSCIENCE and that your model is never going to be beneficial per YOUR OWN WORDS?

Because THAT is what you are saying when you posted that above, you know!


Feb 15, 2015
Her group has linked mutations to to failed ecological adaptations
you mean Voshall or Extavour?
are you still mad about being called out and proven an idiot by DR Extavour because you cannot comprehend her study?
you [Captain Stumpy] are right that we in no way claim that mutations in the heritable genome play no role in evolution...

So Kohl is mistaken if he is claiming that my study (or Rich Lenski's work) provide evidence AGAINST the role of mutations in evolution.
THAT is is in a nutshell

you are the NUT... and you are shelled so you cannot learn anything about BIOLOGY

now, quit posting your CREATIONIST DIATRIBE here and go away
your fallacious stinky love potions are only for the stupid and gullible
http://freethough...s-place/

ANOTHER EPIC FAILURE on jk's part!

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