Opinions on space exploration are influenced by a person's religious beliefs

November 17, 2014, University of Dayton
Credit: NASA

Whether you believe the Philae probe's landing on a speeding comet is a monumental advance or a colossal waste might depend on your religion, according to a University of Dayton researcher.

Many in the space community see the landing as a critical step in colonizing the solar system, such as NASA Planetary Science Division Director Jim Green who said, "I truly believe that a single-planet species will not survive long. It's our destiny to move off this planet."

Yet Evangelical Protestants are much surer Jesus will return in the next 40 years than that humans will make significant strides in , according to research by University of Dayton political science assistant professor Joshua Ambrosius.

"Evangelicals have been hesitant to recognize the discoveries of modern science—from evolutionary origins to climate change," Ambrosius said. "The data show that this overall attitude extends into space."

Ambrosius used data from the General Social Survey and three Pew surveys to compare knowledge, interest and support for space exploration among Catholics, Evangelicals, Mainline Protestants, Jews, Eastern religions and those with no religion.

He found Evangelicals, who account for one-quarter of the U.S. population, are the least knowledgeable, interested and supportive of space exploration, while Jews and members of Eastern traditions were most attentive and supportive.

He also found that while regular church attendance, along with other measures of traditional religious belief like a high view of the authority of the Bible and belief in creationism, exert a negative effect on support for space exploration, clergy support for science exerts a significant positive effect. Evangelicals in particular were twice as likely to recognize the benefits of space exploration if their pastors speak positively about science.

"Efforts to reach Evangelicals must go through the tradition's leadership," Ambrosius said.

But these leaders have to contend with oppositional voices like that of Ken Ham, fundamentalist founder of "Answers in Genesis" and the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Kentucky. Ham has made the argument that search for and habitable planets is pointless because God uniquely created Earth and the life on it, and he has also said the search for alien life is "driven by man's rebellion against God."

Among Catholics, there is more openness to space exploration. The Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, director of the Vatican Observatory, has said not believing aliens could exist would be "putting limits on the creative freedom of God."

"Within the broader Christian tradition, there are a variety of perspectives about space and extraterrestrial life," Ambrosius said. "The space community can have success with increased outreach to religious groups with the message that space exploration, for means of discovering life-bearing or sustaining planets or otherwise, does not conflict with their faith and is in their—and the entire human race's—best interest."

Ambrosius presented his research this month at the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion conference in Indianapolis.

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bruce36b
3.8 / 5 (4) Nov 17, 2014
I don't think that the Catholics are putting forward the idea that space exploration is good because God does not have creative limits. Now that we have overwhelming reproducible proof that there is no God, the Church does not want to disappear as irrelevant. This is one of their survival techniques.
Guy_Underbridge
3.3 / 5 (7) Nov 17, 2014
or verified.
Modernmystic
4.8 / 5 (13) Nov 17, 2014
"Now that we have overwhelming reproducible proof that there is no God..."

Where is the proof that Creator do not exist?

Right now, as never before we have so much evidence of a creating God's power, wisdom and love all around us, if you want to see them.


Well, he does have you there. I'm pretty sure no one has figured out how to prove a negative yet....

That being the case I can't PROVE there ISN'T a Batman....but I'd bet a trillion dollars on it.
kochevnik
2.3 / 5 (6) Nov 17, 2014
Interesting that domestic American religions resemble a festering sore more than any new world religion. No where can the American quest for the lowest common denominator, balkanization, race to the bottom and simmering opportunism be better found than in their homegrown religions. Even foreign churches are tainted. Catholicism in USA has a strong Communist angle in it's desire to enjoy all the benefits of the Reformation and secularism while undermining the intellectual roots of same at every opportunity. Other domestic religions such as Mormonism are strictly anti-intellectual and enforce a crushing hivemindedness only rivaled by the insects themselves, for which the religion is a model
antialias_physorg
4.9 / 5 (16) Nov 17, 2014
Where is the proof that Creator do not exist?

You really don't understand logic at all, do you?

What you're saying is "I claim X, where X is unprovable. Prove me wrong. Therefore X must exist (or at least be a possibility)"

If you don't see how such an 'argument' is completely ludicrous then I'm amazed how you ever learned how to breathe.
Whydening Gyre
4.9 / 5 (15) Nov 17, 2014
Where is the proof that Creator do not exist?

That will require proof that a creator DOES exist.

Right now, as never before we have so much evidence of a creating God's power, wisdom and love all around us, but only if you want to see them.

And - you said the magic (interpretive) words - WANT to...
That stuff can all be there WITHOUT a god, can't it?
pepe2907
4.7 / 5 (6) Nov 17, 2014
There was an article on the consequences of possible discovery of some form of alien life, but IMHO significant reduction of the religious BS /and I don't say everything in religion is/was BS/ should be considered among the most important benefits.
"Existing laws" - what do you mean by that - the laws that exist or that, that are known?
Or specifically just that, what are known to you?
Ever heard about nonlinear TD and alike?
Whydening Gyre
4.9 / 5 (11) Nov 17, 2014
> Whydening Gyre

Once the order can not arise by chance, thanks to the laws of physics in our universe, singular another possibility is that order is created by almighty intelligent Cteator with a purpose. There is no third option.

We don't know all the existing physics in our Universe. That is what we try and observe and understand.
And - Of COURSE there's a third option. and prob'ly a fourth and fifth, yada, yada.
(Just remember Jim Kirk and the Kobiashi Moru...)
Lastly, why do you feel it's necessary to bring your "missionary" message to a science info website? As you might well have guessed, proselytizing doesn't really go over very well in here..
Oh - and Cteator kinda sounds like cheater, so use spell-check the next time. Your Creator might not like being called a cheater.
gkam
3.4 / 5 (14) Nov 17, 2014
Hey, Ren, I can't explain the specifics of how the Earth got infected with life or how the Universe formed, but I will not take the concepts from the Age of Ignorance.
pepe2907
3 / 5 (3) Nov 17, 2014
One of the main general scientific problems with the concept of God is that it actually doesn't reduce the number of unanswered questions related to the creation and functioning of our Universe, it actually increases them, adding some in the line of: where this God exists, how his time passes /let's say in accordance to ours/ and why, how he/she became existant and so on...
Unless you embrace agnostics, which no any normal scientific mind would do /as it's the essential opposite of science and knowledge/ concept of God just adds complexity to already complex things, which is usually considered unnecessary in science, unless proven necessary /scientist don't hate God, they just hate headaches :)/.
logicb4religion
4.1 / 5 (7) Nov 17, 2014
The religious are so disingenuous and dishonest. Science can only say nothing on one brand of deity only, a deistic deity. A non-claim making, non-interacting in the Cosmos entity. Science and history actually has a lot to say on 'religious deities' and in fact can refute those particular brands of unsubstantiated deities as being probabilistically very unlikely to exist. By taking the religious claims made and events supposedly that occurred and show that they did not occur or could not have occurred to begin with. Which time and again both science and history have shown all religious claims wrong or completely non-evident. Where there has never been a evidential case for any interaction by religious deities in all of human history and science. Absence of evidence is evidence of absence, when you would expect there to be evidence for a claim.
pepe2907
5 / 5 (6) Nov 17, 2014
And wasn't there in the Bible a part, where God said /to Avraam ?/ that you/anyone shouldn't believe in a god who can't prove himself, because it's a false god? Well then, let God prove himself in some visible way and I'll immediately became his devoted follower, because honestly 2000 years from the last /proven according to some/ significant /again according to some/ miracle is quite a long time.
Unless so - how to believe in something so unproven? I am in serious risk of losing my precious soul by following false gods, am I not? :)
gkam
3.5 / 5 (13) Nov 17, 2014
Whose heaven is it going to be? What if you are protestant and god is a muslim woman? Or the Aten, as we have been telling you?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (15) Nov 17, 2014
"Now that we have overwhelming reproducible proof that there is no God..."

Where is the proof that Creator do not exist?
Youve been shown the proof that your god as described in the book he wrote, does not exist.

"Tel Aviv University archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog;

"This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort..."

-The FACT that you never respond to this PROOF means that you have no answer to it, and have chosen to ignore it. Which is the only way faith can ever survive, isnt that right?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.4 / 5 (13) Nov 17, 2014
Right now, as never before we have so much evidence of a creating God's power, wisdom and love all around us, but only if you want to see them
But many scholars have known for centuries that the bible is full of forgeries, plagiarisms, graffiti, and lies.

"Falsely attributed writings are often referred to as "pseudepigraphs" but [Bart] Ehrman maintains that the more honest term is "forgery". [His] book posits that 11 or more books out of the 27 books of the Christian New Testament canon were written as forgeries..."
http://en.wikiped...i/Forged

"Mosiac authorship... the Torah was dictated to Moses by God

"Today the majority of biblical scholars accept the theory that the Torah does not have a single author, and that its composition took place over centuries"

-Why would such a wise, powerful, and loving god as he describes himeslf to be in his book, misrepresent the authorship of so much of it?
ctrinity
3 / 5 (1) Nov 17, 2014
Is there anyway that the author of this article could provide a link to the study?
zz5555
5 / 5 (13) Nov 17, 2014
"Matter in our universe with the existing physical laws can not self organize into complex functional structures and this is enough proof that the order in universe was created by the almighty Creator. Due to the increase of entropy with the time, trend in our universe is from complex to simple and from order to chaos."

Why do you believe that the requirement that entropy increase in a closed system prohibits entropy decrease in a part of the closed system (i.e., earth). The sun provides much more energy than is required for life to evolve on earth and still allow the entropy of the closed system to increase. Entropy is obviously not a problem.

Do you have another physical law that prohibits evolution?
zz5555
5 / 5 (12) Nov 17, 2014
Well then, let God prove himself in some visible way and I'll immediately became his devoted follower, because honestly 2000 years from the last /proven according to some/ significant /again according to some/ miracle is quite a long time.


I don't think I'd become a follower of his. The bible is pretty clear that god is an evil being. If I had to choose between god or satan, I might go for satan. The only thing that says satan is evil is god. But we know god is evil, so maybe satan is actually good.

(But it's moot because neither exist. ;)
malapropism
4.5 / 5 (8) Nov 17, 2014
"Now that we have overwhelming reproducible proof that there is no God..."

Where is the proof that Creator do not exist?

In the same way that you rightly note (as others here do) that a negative cannot be proven, on what do you base your assertion that
Matter in our universe with the existing physical laws can not self organize into complex functional structures

this negative is proved?

Like most religious fundamentalists I have met or had converse with, you are a hypocrite.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (8) Nov 18, 2014
we have more abstract theories than ever, that confuse even their authors, but that does not mean that we have a better understanding of the world. Fake knoledge is not usefull.
[sic] @dumb&dumber-ren
of course, during the heyday of the church in all their power and infinite reach, they also believed the world flat, that if it were a sphere or curved as empirically shown by sailors, then you would fall off the edge or the spinning of the globe would shoot you right off the surface...

RELIGION hampers knowledge
religion is only good for controlling weak minded people
it causes friction between others and is the cause of segregation and confusion (your "base of human knowledge" says it is OK to sell my children, stone my wife for talking to other men if i am jealous and slavery and genocide is a good thing)

take your religious belief and go TROLL elsewhere
this is a SCIENCE site, and you bring NO science to your post
and you IGNORED all the links i've already given you
yep
4.5 / 5 (8) Nov 18, 2014
Matter in our universe with the existing physical laws can not self organize into complex functional structures and this is enough proof that the order in universe was created by the almighty Creator.

http://www.scienc...83902225
You may want to rethink that.

yep
4.3 / 5 (6) Nov 18, 2014
Here is some historical perspective that all the brothers of Abraham ought to read.
http://www.wearen...egro.pdf
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (8) Nov 18, 2014
I cant speak for zz5555 but this is my take on your comment.
"According to you God is bad because it punishes the wicked"
the god in the bible likes to punish innocents and even devoted followers just to test their faith in him and out of spite in the old testament while also claiming to be an all forgiving all loving ever merciful god.
"although gave them enough time to abandon their sinful deeds and to change for the better? "
what sins have all the innocent people god allowed to suffer horrible tortuous lives/deaths commit?
also, i thought god was one who allows nothing to happen if he doesn't will it and he also knows whats going to happen in the future being omnipotent and all.
"If you love your child would you be honest with him? Would you point out his mistakes or you will keep his feelings? Will you punish him for biggest mistakes?"
yes, however unlike your god I wouIdnt punish them for doing nothing. The god of the bible is more evil than any human that ever lived.
yep
3.9 / 5 (7) Nov 18, 2014
You said matter can not self organize into complex functional structures and that is incorrect, here is another similar example.
http://epsppd.epf...94PR.PDF
More important is my second post on the history of your God. Allegro's career was destroyed by what he brought to light, but he has been vindicated recently by a few other scholars that checked his work. Thought you might appreciate a historical perspective unclouded by blind faith. Then again, faith only works if you allow it to blind you. Kind of like scientists and their Big Bang miracle gives them faith in black holes and dark matter.
zz5555
5 / 5 (11) Nov 18, 2014
"There is no innocent people except infants."

And God has no problem killing infants. What about the unborn? God has no problem killing them as well. But that's not the real evil part. You must do certain things in order to get to heaven. Jesus said that for the rich to get to heaven is like pulling a camel through the eye of a needle. But the bible is contradictory. Look at all the religions that have sprung from one book. And Muslims and Jewish people have the same God. And these religions all have different requirements. So how to choose? And how do those who are mentally challenged choose? The bible, then, as well as every one of god's actions must be clear to even those with the lowest IQs. To not do so would mean that God discriminates against those God has made stupid - and that's clearly evil. The only alternative is to allow everyone, no matter what they do or believe, into heaven. And in that case, why bother with God or the commandments?
alfie_null
5 / 5 (11) Nov 18, 2014
Once the order can not arise by chance, thanks to the laws of physics in our universe, singular another possibility is that order is created by almighty intelligent Cteator with a purpose. There is no third option.

Why do you try so hard to prove God exists? To whom are you trying to prove it? Not us.

What have you been taught of faith, and how do you imagine you are challenged in that topic?
Whydening Gyre
4.6 / 5 (10) Nov 18, 2014
Why do you try so hard to prove God exists?

Because - he has reached a point in his worldview that "THIS" is all there is and to imagine any further would just serve to drive lesser men than he, insane...
He was taught to set limits or suffer consequences...
yep
4.4 / 5 (7) Nov 18, 2014
http://www.wearen...egro.pdf
Here is the story of your faith yet you refuse to read. It was suppressed for a generation to keep humanity in the dark. Your ignorance would keep it that way, and as you said, you prefer your lack of imagination as the guiding light. The indoctrination of your childhood was effective the church has another sow. That is your right and I know many good people that believe like you.
Cheers
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.5 / 5 (16) Nov 18, 2014
how many false evidence were made to support the evolution theory to the present day?
I know of the only false evidence you believers need to believe in gods which don't exist - your books. Grand architecture filled with mobs of fellow believers also helps.

False evidence? First off there is NO evidence for any of the bible stories. NONE. Don't you think that the discovery of solomons palace would be all over the news? All the other civilizations in the region left tons of physical evidence, which we have found. But the Jewish kingdoms left absolutely none.

Even worse, we have found tons of contrary evidence which tells us that other things were going on back then which would have made the bible stories impossible. THAT evidence is indisputable.

No, your grand wizard not only made evidence disappear, he replaced it with totally convincing counter evidence, over entire regions and many many centuries. Which makes him a most remarkable deceiver indeed.
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.4 / 5 (13) Nov 18, 2014
Bschott
Your selfish affection for non-existent gods only legitimizes the beliefs of those who use them to justify murder and destruction.

You all agree that god exists, you just disagree on how he wants to be worshipped. And since only the books contain instructions on how to worship god, believers invariably turn to the parts which REQUIRE murder and destruction, and dutifully do what God tells them to do.

And you have absolutely nothing to say to stop them.

And if you were in their place, and were suffering under the same conditions of fear and misery that religions create, you would be doing exactly the same things that they are. Because the books demand it, and you are no more or less human than they.

The books are false. The gods are false. They endanger the world. Find something real to believe in.
rockwolf1000
4.4 / 5 (7) Nov 18, 2014
Missed the edit feature "I really don't give two shits if anyone else does" but it is comforting that others do.

That isn't completely contradictory, like the original statement.


If you say so.
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (4) Nov 18, 2014
Missed the edit feature "I really don't give two shits if anyone else does" but it is comforting that others do.

That isn't completely contradictory, like the original statement.


If you say so.


I did, that's why I typed it.


I'm well aware of that.

But both statements are contradictory, as is your logic I'm afraid
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (6) Nov 18, 2014
Missed the edit feature "I really don't give two shits if anyone else does" but it is comforting that others do.

That isn't completely contradictory, like the original statement.

If you say so.

I did, that's why I typed it.

I'm well aware of that.

But both statements are contradictory, as is your logic I'm afraid.

That was why I used the word "completely" in the second post. My feelings on it are contradictory. I never said it WASN'T contradictory.


So what other feelings do you have that are contradictory?

Perhaps.....

I believe God is a scientist,

I have faith in a force I refer to as God


If you can't wrap your head around your own beliefs....

"I really don't give two shits if anyone else does" but it is comforting that others do.


.... how can you conclude anything you believe is correct?
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (6) Nov 18, 2014
I believe God is a scientist,


Why would an all-knowing, omnipotent deity need to use science to study the very universe he created?

It seems you hold many contradictory beliefs.

Is that what it means to be religious?
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (5) Nov 18, 2014
I have faith in a force I refer to as God


Does your scientist god study himself and the effects his "force" create?

How does your "god force" relate to electromagnetism?
Gravitational force?
Nuclear forces?
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.3 / 5 (11) Nov 18, 2014
Don't transpose religious beliefs into acting out Gods will though
Gods will is explained only in the books. Where else would it come from? You would have no notion of either god or his will if the books didnt exist.
My selfish affection can only legitimize the things I do in the name of my faith, what people do and why they do it is theirs to own
-This is what I mean by selfish. You are part of the consensus. This means you OWN what extremists do.
https://www.youtu...TVUulGwc

-at 3:40. The only way to exonerate yourself is to reject superstition entirely. That nice warm fuzzy feeling you get? ALL religions elicit it. The details dont matter. This feeling is what they all share. It is as addictive as any drug.
How is it that you believe in Ghosts but not Gods?
I dont believe in ghosts.
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (6) Nov 18, 2014
It appears you are the one having trouble wrapping your head around my beliefs. If I choose to believe God is both a force I can feel and a scientist because of how the universe works, as Otto said that is my selfish affection. I never said God used science to study the universe he created, I wouldn't assume he would need to. However I would assume that to create a universe that manifests the way ours does it required some scientific motivation.


So what you are saying is that you choose to believe whatever nonsense pops into your head?

Perhaps tomorrow you may believe god is a bowl of corn flakes?

It's nice that religious people can make up and believe what ever crap they wish.

Us poor atheists are stuck with reality.

rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (5) Nov 18, 2014
@bschott

I believe God is a scientist,


&

I never said God used science to study the universe he created


So just what do you think scientists do?

It's becoming readily apparent what the "bs" in your name stands for.

You seem to be a very confused individual. Perhaps therapy would help?
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (6) Nov 18, 2014
Rockwolf, you harbor an awful lot of hostility.


You ain't seen nuthin' yet.

For instance I haven't called you any names or insulted your intelligence or lack thereof. I have merely asked you a series of questions so that I can better understand your brand of logic and how you are able to reconcile the contradictory beliefs you possess.

Why do religious types always assume they are being attacked by external forces.

Is the "force of god" you feel accompanied by voices as well?
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (8) Nov 18, 2014
Therapy may be able to help you deal with that as well.


The only therapy I need is distance from religious nonsense.

Why is it that someone who has different beliefs than you offends you so strongly?


Because you religious crackpots affect my life and the lives of so many others negatively.
While at the same time you religious types have the audacity to claim that atheists have no morals or are untrustworthy while the historical record shows religion and it's consequences to be #1 source of misery on our planet.

That you religious people think you have the moral high ground laughable. You are all deluded!
TheGhostofOtto1923
4.6 / 5 (11) Nov 18, 2014
as an aetheist
Im not an atheist any more than I am an a-garden fairy-ist. I am an antireligionist. Belief in garden fairies is mostly harmless. Belief in god causes a great deal of harm.
I wouldn't expect you to understand spirituality
I understand that the thrill you get from the contemplation of your god is the same one as every other religionist gets from their gods. EVERY ONE. And theyre all just as sure as you that theirs is the only one thats real. But at most only one of them can be real, correct?

This means that the epiphany is a wholly physical phenomenon. The mechanism is similar to any other drug-induced experience.
But no, gods will does not only come from books, I have never even read the bible
So you were born believing in this god of yours? No, the notion originates in the books and is passed on through the media. The meme did not just occur to you - you synthesized your own custom version from what you absorbed from the culture around you.
jsdarkdestruction
5 / 5 (8) Nov 18, 2014
"There is no innocent people except infants"
what sin has a 3 year old child commited worthy of unspeakable punishments and deaths? how about a 5 or 10 year old?

Whydening Gyre
5 / 5 (10) Nov 18, 2014
I believe God is a scientist,


Why would an all-knowing, omnipotent deity need to use science to study the very universe he created?

Cuz he created it on a Saturday night after a few too many at the pub and now needs to examine just exactly what he's done (so he doesn't do it again)?

And God said, "Here, hold my beer - I wanna try somethin'..."
Mike_Massen
3.7 / 5 (9) Nov 19, 2014
Ren82 made claims
There is no innocent people except infants.
So you confirm god is nasty as he kills infants, heard of miscarriages, fetal deformities ?
Even the greatest saints are sinners according to God's standards.
Logically it makes god the nastiest being since he can tell the future therefore knew satan & Eve would disobey even BEFORE he made them !
Only God is sinless, but at the same time is merciful to preserve life on this planet after original sin.
No, killed 50,000 for looking in a box
So it was the sacrifice of Jesus to redeem people sins and with this
No as jesus being god knew he would go to heaven regardless
Freedom of choice is a divine principle.
NO. Dumbest of all ideas & most stupid you have ever uttered because freedom (freewill) can only come from full & complete education which is a dynamic.

Ren82, your god never educated ie No; 1st aid, surgery, food safety, dietary etc

Your god ONLY from a book (& bad logic) !
Mike_Massen
3.7 / 5 (9) Nov 19, 2014
bschott claimed
I have never even read the bible or any other religious teachings.
Ah, self imposed ignorance, yuck. Everyone should read at least the bible but also eastern works Eg. Upanishads etc That gives you some insight into ancient psychology & why humans are generally comfortable with ancient & arbitrary beliefs which have no logical basis. Please ALSO read up on this:-
http://en.wikiped...c_method

bschott muttered
That is why I referred to him as a force I feel.
Its called awe, its not a force its a sense of appreciation, it does not in any way shape or form suggest some independent personal creator as suggested in the bible or similar religious works actually exists.

The only passably useful writings that seem to address a little of what U (might) feel, is from Thomas often claimed to be the doubter etc But not from then bible, from the later works discovered within only the last 60 years or so, related to self observation...
Mike_Massen
3.7 / 5 (9) Nov 19, 2014
bschott claimed
The fact that I believe God is a scientist stems, as I alluded to above, from the intricate nature of how our universe is constructed. Nothing more.
You cannot believe a fact but, you can an idea. You are really saying you "think (or hope) god is a scientist", sorry its a dumb idea because Science = "The discipline of the acquisition of knowledge" so to be a Scientist is someone who (earnestly) follows that discipline BUT, predicated upon the paradigm that scientist doesnt already know what makes everything 'tick' or the future ie Learning.

So obviously for god to be a scientist, he is therefore a student (of the universe) & cannot know the future, Eg. indistinguishable from an alien...

ie. Enough to connect DNA to make 'life' but not enough to stop the process of aging, diseases, repercussions which lead to 10million species of bacteria, 600 species of intestinal worms. 25 billion phage/litre of sea water etc

God obviously not personal.
Mike_Massen
3.3 / 5 (7) Nov 19, 2014
bschott offered
Otto and RockWolf: Because I believe in God does not make me religious.
Have been engaged in comparative religion for 28+ years & have semblance of a theory which may have testable aspects.

Am really interested in your outlook, in particular attributes & how connected with observable facts, not just the so called fundamental forces but the permutations ie chemistry/biology etc ?

bschott claimed
..then engaging a person you beleive to be religious is very contradictory given what you claim your goal is.
Can't speak for others but, I loath ignorance & when people use an arbitrary belief to progress power/influence & arrive at deterministic moral judgements. In my philosophy I am consistent in challenging not just the logic as they see it but, the key; Provenance.

bschott out on a limb
Belief in God is as harmless as one of your garden fairies.
This depends on Many aspects, especially said attributes (yours?) of said being/ideal etc
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (5) Nov 19, 2014
Otto and RockWolf: Because I believe in God does not make me religious. I despise religion as much as both you. I mention that I believe in God and the immediate assumption is that I am a nut and embody the associations that go with the lunatic on the soap box. Religion is the cause of this. Masses of people trying to direct others how to think.

Do you really think you would believe in any god unless someone else had planted that notion in your head at a very early and impressionable age? Do you believe that a person raised by wolves for instance would have any notion of a god?
I know many people who reject mainstream religion as you also claim to do and take it upon themselves to create in their own heads a version of deities or spirituality that suits their own needs. Many justify their constructs with a simple: "There HAS to be something more after death".
I interpret this as people are too lazy to rethink their position and too lazy to commit to a mainstream religion.
Mike_Massen
3.3 / 5 (7) Nov 19, 2014
bschott countered
You tell me EVERYONE should read literary works and in the same sentence proclaim they provide beliefs with no logical basis, something which you are condemning me for having.
Sorry U missed my point or I wasn't broad enough to articulate, many seem to take what I say narrowly, have been doing this for awhile.

Everyone, as part of their education process should read the primary religious works such as the bible, koran & upanishads as part of understanding the psychology of WHY people are comfortable with arbitrary beliefs that have no logical basis BUT, include in that education the Scientific Method - ostensibly which is logical.

The rationale is these works have led us to where we are now; culturally, sociologically but, transitionally. Recognising where something Eg in law & esp. human relations is intrinsically logical (or otherwise) enables us to make more beneficial decisions not limited by either in any mechanical/dogmatic way.

TBC
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (4) Nov 19, 2014
@bschott
But religion is not the only example of this is it? This forum is a perfect example of a group of people who ridicule those who do not conform to the status quo.

That is a spurious claim often made here by folks who find themselves on the losing end of a discussion. There is no group think here AFAIK. I am wholly independent and find myself in agreement with a number of people MOST of the time but not always. I attribute that to convergent logic and nothing more.
If you need to distance yourself from "religious nonsense" then engaging a person you beleive to be religious is very contradictory given what you claim your goal is.

Aha! That may seem true but I will not run from the discussion, and if there is the most remote chance I could cause a person to abandon superstition and embrace logic and empirical evidence then I find it worthwhile to sully myself in these matters from time to time.
And that increases my separation from religion just a tiny bit.
rockwolf1000
5 / 5 (2) Nov 19, 2014
@Otto

as an aetheist


Im not an atheist any more than I am an a-garden fairy-ist. I am an antireligionist. Belief in garden fairies is mostly harmless. Belief in god causes a great deal of harm.


Is there a different term for atheist or antireligionist that does have "theism" or "religion" as the root word?

Perhaps "Logicism"?
Mike_Massen
3.3 / 5 (7) Nov 19, 2014
cont
@bschott

I am in no way suggesting anyone should suspend critical thinking or not forms of creative analysis or in fact do the opposite by being overly critical as lauding over those age-old beliefs because there arose from comparatively primitive times & invoke some form of punishment etc.

By looking at beliefs comparatively we have a greater appreciation for the whole aspect, it is an essential part of education, such Provenance improves understanding,

One inescapable fact is religion & that includes arbitrary so called non formal beliefs in a deity & subsequent expression of those beliefs in some moral structure of culture, government, medicine, health care etc has not resulted in alleviating suffering for millennia.

On the contrary the scientific method where applied with integrity does alleviate human suffering & offers immense advances, such that those of good character can advance the state of human civilisation & manage Earth & our future well.

TBC
TheGhostofOtto1923
4 / 5 (8) Nov 19, 2014
"Belief in god causes a great deal of harm." - No Otto, as you said, religion and acts committed in the name of said religion cause a great deal of harm. Belief in God is as harmless as one of your garden fairies
-So in your infinite hubris youve concocted a creator being who is exactly as you want it to be. In your own image so to speak.

So dont call it god. Because everybody knows what god is and yes, this does cause a great deal of harm.
Perhaps "Logicism"?
Ask some philo, dont ask me.

Look at the bottom of this page
http://en.wikiped...religion
Osiris1
1 / 5 (2) Nov 23, 2014
Hate to say, partly because I detest Sunni moslems while respecting Shia Muslims, but Islam is far more welcoming of space travel...and of the possibility of sentient alien life.. than all of Protestant Christianity. Catholic belief is far more welcoming, but still less so than Islamics who actually believe the speed of light can be bypassed. They said that their Prophet did it, but I doubt he rode a Barrack (magic horse) unless it was a starship that looked like a Vulcan ship out of Star Trek complete with Alcubierre ring and maybe IT was named the "Barrack". One problem though! Islamic believers on alien systems would only be able to pray certain times any given day and then on non tidally locked planets, as the Sol system would only be in the sky overhead a certain time every night or day so they could raise their hands over their head between Sol rise and Sol set five set times while pointing where Sol was at those times. Rubbing ones face on the ground a thing of the past.

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