Low-wage fast-food jobs leave hefty tax bill, report says

Low-wage fast-food jobs leave hefty tax bill, report says
Low-wage fast-food jobs leave hefty tax bill, report says.

The fast-food industry costs American taxpayers nearly $7 billion annually because its jobs pay so little that 52 percent of fast-food workers are forced to enroll their families in public assistance programs, according to a report released today (Tuesday, Oct. 15) by researchers at the University of California at Berkeley.

"The taxpayer costs we discovered were staggering," said Ken Jacobs, chair of UC Berkeley's Center for Labor Research and Education and coauthor of the . "People who work in jobs are paid so little that having to rely on public assistance is the rule, rather than the exception, even for those working 40 hours or more a week."

Fast food is a $200 billion-a-year industry. The median wage for core front-line at fast-food restaurants nationally is $8.69 an hour. Only 13 percent of the jobs provide health benefits.

The researchers found that the fast-food industry's low wages and meager benefits, often accompanied by part-time hours, combine to create substantial public-assistance needs, including:

  • Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program, $3.9 billion per year
  • Earned Income Tax Credit payments, $1.95 billion per year
  • The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or food stamps, $1.04 billion per year
  • Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, $82 million per year

The states where the fast-food industry's low wages cost U.S. taxpayers the most include California at $717 million, New York at $708 million, Texas at $556 million, Illinois at $368 million and Florida at $348 million. A breakdown of other states for which data are available is in the report, "Fast Food, Poverty Wages: The Public Cost of Low-Wage Jobs in the Fast-Food Industry."

"This is the public cost of low-wage jobs in America," said UC Berkeley economist Sylvia Allegretto, co-chair of the Center for Wage and Employment Dynamics. "The cost is public because taxpayers bear it. Yet it remains hidden in national policy debates about poverty, employment and public spending."

The researchers said families of front-line fast-food workers are enrolled in public programs at more than twice the rate of the overall workforce.

The report was funded by Fast Food Forward, a coalition of workers and labor, religious and community groups campaigning for higher wages and rights on the job for New York City fast-food workers.

Earlier this year, fast-food workers in 60 cities went on strike calling for higher pay so they could survive without having to rely on public assistance. They plan other actions this week.

The report also indicates that just 28 percent of core front-line fast-food workers regularly work 40 or more hours per week, compared to 75 percent of the country's workforce as a whole.

Researchers based their findings on an examination of only those federal programs that function as income supplements and of fast-food industry workers not in management positions who put in at least 10 hours a week for at least 27 weeks a year between 2007 and 2011.

Marc Doussard, one of the report's coauthors and an assistant professor of urban and regional planning at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, said the report also helps dispel the myth of fast-food workers as largely untrained teenagers. 

"More than two-thirds of core frontline fast-food workers across the country are over the age of 20, and 68 percent are the main wage earners in their families," Doussard said. "And more than a quarter of Americans working in fast-food restaurants are parents, raising at least one child."


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Oct 16, 2013
Inaction via the Federal Governemnt, beyond what the Federal Reserve has accompished, to assist in economic gowth is a large part of the problem. Democrats want higher taxes and foster anti-business rhetoric. Republicans want to reduce governemnt spending: not the right time. Working age heads of household should not be working entry evel fast food jobs.

Oct 16, 2013
Sounds like "Minimum wages" = "legalized robbery" and "CEO pay" = "excessive legalize robbery". Either way Capitalism = un-sustainability.

Oct 16, 2013
""More than two-thirds of core frontline fast-food workers across the country are over the age of 20, and 68 percent are the main wage earners in their families," Doussard said. "And more than a quarter of Americans working in fast-food restaurants are parents, raising at least one child.""

Thanks to BHO and the Regulatory State that drives away work.
But this is what 'liberals' what, sheeple dependent upon them.

Oct 16, 2013
Sounds like "Minimum wages" = "legalized robbery" and "CEO pay" = "excessive legalize robbery". Either way Capitalism = un-sustainability.

I agree. The question is, what would work in its place?

It seems to me it would have to be a combination of the best of all systems, or something completely new.

Oct 16, 2013
"The report also indicates that just 28 percent of core front-line fast-food workers regularly work 40 or more hours per week,"
Thanks to Obamacare, they won't work more than 29 hours.


Oct 16, 2013
Sounds like "Minimum wages" = "legalized robbery" and "CEO pay" = "excessive legalize robbery". Either way Capitalism = un-sustainability.

I agree. The question is, what would work in its place?

It seems to me it would have to be a combination of the best of all systems, or something completely new.

Something new. It's called free market capitalism.

Oct 16, 2013
If you are need to work at a fast food joint to make a real living wage, you have more issues than being paid minimum wage. Most fast food workers are students learning valuable lessons. Perhaps government should be paying the owners of these joints for all the education they provide students.

Thanks to Obama now during the summer students who would work 40 hrs to pay for college won't be able to anymore. But hey Obamacare is just another notch in the continuing Progressive war on students, the poor, women, children, and minorities.

Oct 16, 2013
Who f&*king cares? Just more cannon fodder for the socialist fanatics "forced egalitarian" agenda that will ensure everyone is equally poor,and that individual effort(the engine of Free enterprise)becomes a fruitless,meaningless endever. The mindless are killing this country.

Oct 16, 2013
Jesus H Christ! These jobs were never designed for people to "make a living" doing them. They are entry level jobs designed for students and retirees and people who want, or need additional income.

Had the economy been allowed to recover from the housing bubble and resulting recession, instead of being prolonged by the Obama administration, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But the democrats are going to made as many citizens dependent upon the government as they can. Because that is the only way they will maintain electoral success.

The democrats have truly become the the party of the Patrón and Peon.

Oct 17, 2013
"Thanks to BHO and the Regulatory State that drives away work." - RyggTard

Libertarian/Randites like RyggTard were repeatedly told duing the 80's that their economic policies of shipping jobs to India and other lower wage nations would result in a race to the bottom in terms of Ameriacn Wages, workplace standards, environmental standards, health and safety standards, product standards, etc.

The Libertarian response was ....

1. Claiming that such questions made the person asking unpatriotic and anti-American.
2. Claiming that so called "American exceptionalism" would prevent such problems.
3. Claiming that the only jobs to be lost would be low wage jobs and the
best jobs would remain in America.
4. Claiming that Americans were the smartest people on earth and that while low skill
manufacturing should be outsourced so that the American Workforce could focus on
manufacturing Intellectual property.


Oct 17, 2013
Now here we are 30 years later and LiberTarian/Randites like RyggTard are admitting that there is a race to the bottom in all manner of standards and wages, and claiming that those standards must be lowered in order for prevent Americans from being destroyed economically by the competition they claimed would cause no harm.

Every Libertarian/Randite economic policy ever tried has been a complete disaster for America.

The offshoring of American jobs to India and the Pacific Rim is most probably the most significant free market failure of them all.

Thirty million people are slaves, half in India: survey
http://ca.news.ya...875.html

RyggTard demands that American should become slaves in order to compete.

Oct 17, 2013
"They were complaining and wanted $15 an hour, so give it to them, can have only 3 people per shift and burgers will cost 20 bucks" - FenderTard

The last time I was at a McDonalds they served at least 200 sandwiches over an hour period, probably bringing in 1,600 per hour. Staffing cost were $100 per hour.

Doubling the wage scale would raise the cost of the average meal by 1/16th or about 50 cents.

Like most Conservatives FederTard is numerically illiterate.

Oct 17, 2013
"Jesus H Christ! These jobs were never designed for people to "make a living" doing them." - Shootist

Then you should have no problem with the workers requiring government assistance to survive.

Can you tell us why a Corporation should not be required to pay enough to maintain it's staff in the same way it pays enough to maintain the building it occupies, or the equipment it uses?

Why should Corporations be permitted to externalize the cost of maintaining it's workforce onto society?


Oct 17, 2013
Thanks to Obama now during the summer students who would work 40 hrs to pay for college won't be able to anymore.

"The report also indicates that just 28 percent of core front-line fast-food workers regularly work 40 or more hours per week"

When will FreeOfThinking learn to read?

Oct 17, 2013
"When will FreeOfThinking learn to read?" - Kochevnik

He don't need to do no readen, cause he just free thinks any reality he wants.

Oct 17, 2013
"Something new. It's called free market capitalism." - RyggTard

And it doesn't pay a living wage.

Which means that it is parasitic on society which must maintain the corporate workforce.

Like Ryggtard and his Tea-Tard brothers and sisters, Free Market Capitalism is pure failure.


Oct 17, 2013
Nice try living in fantasyland, Primera. With most low skill jobs exported to China, modern workers of non preferred ages are stuck with these junk jobs as the only plausible choices. Monopoly operations like the international slavemonger 'Yum Brands', owner of many fast food brands, have incorporated the availability of welfare for desperate employees into their greedy business models, thereby making there problem a local government problem. The solution is to tax those food outlets accordingly as to their footprint on the local welfare systems. Those parasites will not close, and if they did, the jobs 'lost' were never real jobs anyway. And in the unlikely event one DOES close, then the local health of the population will benefit....pointing out another footprint of fast food operations, the health care footprint. Fast food places generate health costs borne by local governments as well when poor customers get heart trouble, food poisoning from low qual food, etc.

Oct 17, 2013
"Thanks to Obamacare, they won't work more than 29 hours." - RyggTard

Sorry TardieBoy, but there is no rule under the new health care act that requires fast food companies to reduce their total hours of their staff.

Doing so is the decision of the Corporation, not Obama.

Do you intend to remain a Moron for the rest of your life RyggTard?

Oct 17, 2013
Well said Osiris. I gave you a 5.

RyggTard got his usual 1. Pity I can't vote in the negative.

He is mister negative.


Oct 17, 2013
"Sounds like "Minimum wages" = "legalized robbery" " - Milou

You need to remember that in the U.S. the Republicans Tea-Tards, and Libertarians are fundamentally anti-American. Under the disguise of protecting "liberty", they oppose even the concept of a minimum wage, and work to keep it as low as possible in order to maximize corporate profits.

Isn't that right RyggTard?

Oct 17, 2013
The fast-food industry costs American taxpayers nearly $7 billion annually because its jobs pay so little that 52 percent of fast-food workers are forced to enroll their families in public assistance programs

Intersting example how free market forces lead to reliance of companies on (hidden) subsidies to keep themselves afloat.

That's what trickle down economics (or 'piss on' economics, if you prefer) will lead to - no trickling down of profits to workers but attempts to let others pay for the wages for your workers.

It seems to me it would have to be a combination of the best of all systems

There's quite a few countries that manage to have such a combination. Having some rules (e.g. minimum wages) actually SAVES money for the people.

Oct 17, 2013
Intersting example how free market forces lead to reliance of companies on (hidden) subsidies to keep themselves afloat.


What free market forces?
Minimum wage is not 'free market'.

Oct 17, 2013
Minimum wages are designed to give people the means to live unaided. The current US minimum wage laws are only 'minimum wage' in name - as they allow companies to pay their employees wages that leave them in a situation where they can't survive without federal aid programs.
There's also quite a few exceptions to the minimum wage laws which allows employers to pay their emloyees even less - particularly small employers and tipped services. As long as there are easy ways around a law it's still full-blown 'free market'.

Oct 17, 2013
Minimum wages are designed to give people the means to live unaided.

No, they are not.
They are designed to benefit unions and control competitors.
there are easy ways around a law it's still full-blown 'free market'.

It is not a free market when property rights are not protected.

Oct 17, 2013
"What free market forces?" - RyggTard

The market forces that cause employers to pay their workers as little as possible.

Do you deny that these free market forces don't exist?

Or are you saying that the workers would be paid even less if government didn't already set standards for their pay?

Which is it TardieBoy?


Oct 17, 2013
"Minimum wage is not 'free market'." - RyggTard

Very true, the Employers would pay employees even less if they could.

In some American states some employers actually pay their employees nothing and employees hope that they can make enough in tips to survive.

That is how corrupt and greedy American Capitalists are.

Oct 17, 2013
"They are designed to benefit unions and control competitors. " - RyggTard

Perhaps on planet ConservaTard. But here on planet reality, minimum wage laws exist to provide workers with standards for minimum pay by employers.

Unions only enter into the picture if you are looking for Bat Shit Stupid excuses to explain the chronic failure of Free Market principles.


Oct 17, 2013
"It is not a free market when property rights are not protected." - RyggTard

You say the stupidest things TardieBoy.

You must write your own scripts when you are drunk.

As for antialias, he thinks clearly and sees your treasonous nonsense and childish reasoning for the bat shit crazy mental disease that it is.


Oct 17, 2013
"His primary motivation for the wage increase, however, was economic. Ford hoped to reduce the company's high turnover rate and retain its best employees. The increased cost of wages was offset by increased production and decreased training programs and other costs associated with hiring new employees. Furthermore, the wage increase provided Ford employees with enough money to purchase Ford automobiles, which further increased the company's sales.

However, some business leaders and journalists criticized Ford for what they perceived as social welfare policies; The Wall Street Journal wrote that he brought "biblical or spiritual principles into a field where they do not belong." In the end, Ford's business goals were realized and his wage increase had its intended effect: turnover declined sharply, and profits doubled to $60 million from $30 million from 1914 to 1916."
http://learning.b...ge/?_r=0

Oct 17, 2013
"Ford was able to pay higher wages only because it resulted in cost-cutting elsewhere. This resulted in increased productivity, which is the only way to raise the standard of living of a society.

It is not higher wages but greater capital investment in labor (new/better tools, machinery, etc.) that increases productivity.

We've had a substantial rise in productivity over the past four decades, but the associated rise in living standards has been stifled by the exponential rise in inflation that has occurred since going to a purely fiat currency in 1971. This is the real enemy that is destroying the middle class."
http://www.lasveg...um-wage/

Oct 17, 2013
"How is it that workers tend to receive higher wages as output increases? The key is profitability. When firms increase their profits, there are dual benefits to workers: (1) more and better products and services are sold to consumers, and (2) more funds are made available from retained earnings to pay workers and to improve tools, equipment, and training. When firms are successful, company officers aren't the only ones who benefit. Workers also receive higher wages and more services, including training, better equipment, and fringe benefits. The advantages of giving higher compensation are: (1) less job turnover, (2) better workers, and (3) higher incentives to work more productively.

Read more: http://www.fee.or...i1f99w00

Oct 17, 2013
"His primary motivation for the wage increase, however, was economic. Ford hoped to reduce the company's high turnover rate and retain its best employees." - RyggTard

Ford to transfer UK plant to Turkey

Ford has announced this morning the closure of its last vehicle manufacturing plant in the UK. The company is reportedly shutting down a van factory and shifting production to Turkey.

http://www.market...t-turkey

Offshoring of production and services to low-cost countries can harm the wages of workers with low skills back at home. That is the one of the findings of research by Daron Acemoglu, Gino Gancia and Fabrizio Zilibotti, presented at the Royal Economic Society's 2013 annual conference." - http://www.res.or...of8.html

It appears that now employees need to be concerned about the turnover rate of their employers.

Oct 17, 2013
"How is it that workers tend to receive higher wages as output increases?" - RyggTard

Then why are American wages in decline over a period when Conservatives were claiming that the U.S. was the most productive nation on earth?

Ah.. Perhaps the reason is the word "tend".

U.S. workers endure 'lost decade' of declining wages

Read more here: http://www.mcclat...link=cpy

Poor RyggTard. Delusional as always.

Oct 18, 2013
I would publicly like to thank RyggTard for doing his Tea-Tard best to destroy the Republican Party, Destroy America, and slitting his own throat.

He is doing the world a great service.

Republicans 'biggest losers' in shutdown aftermath

http://www.france...e-senate

Well played Tea-Tarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrds.

Oct 18, 2013
@ryggie It is not a free market when property rights are not protected.
How is destroying the value of en education by shipping one's livelihood overseas not a violation of one's property rights, ryggie?
What free market forces? Minimum wage is not 'free market'.
Yes it is. Minimum wage is a measure of freedom against extortion. The employer has all the leverage. The worker has very little

Oct 18, 2013
shipping one's livelihood overseas not a violation of one's property rights,

Why would any business move a factory into a different country? Germans moved auto factories to the USA to lower the costs imposed by unions in Germany and to lower shipping costs, and, likely to lower import tariffs.
Same for Japanese companies building factories in the USA.
USA companies are motivated to move overseas, or other states, primarily due to govt mandated unions and regulatory costs.
Forced union membership, the regulatory state, minimum wage, are not the result of a free market.
The worker has very little

Ford doubled his daily wage because of worker leverage, they quit.
Wal Mart was offering $17/hr in ND because workers could make so much more working for oil companies.

Oct 18, 2013
shipping one's livelihood overseas not a violation of one's property rights,

Why would any business move a factory into a different country? Germans moved auto factories to the USA to lower the costs imposed by unions in Germany and to lower shipping costs, and, likely to lower import tariffs.

So you agree with me that USA companies violated the values of worker's intellectual property, robbing them of their livelihoods? Isn't that a violation of workers property rights, ryggie?
The worker has very little

Ford doubled his daily wage because of worker leverage, they quit.
Wal Mart was offering $17/hr in ND because workers could make so much more working for oil companies.
For doubled wages because at the time Ford was interested in making a better product. Much of North Dakota has no housing, with workers living in motels and tents. Prices parallel Alaska to some degree

Oct 18, 2013
So you agree with me that USA companies violated the values of worker's intellectual property, robbing them of their livelihoods?

No, it was the US govt that violated the property rights of everyone with minimum wage laws, regulations, tariffs, trade restrictions, etc.
Many candy companies left the USA because sugar prices are artificially high in the US.
Ford was interested in making a better product.

And PROFITS, but he needed a trained and dedicated labor force to make a better product and PROFIT (gasp!).

Oct 18, 2013
"Bonnie Doon Ice Cream blames Obamacare for plant shutdown"
http://www.fox28....on-close
"Saving General Motors from bankruptcy was among President Obama's most frequently cited achievements when he ran for re-election last year. Democrats everywhere touted the company's revival as proof of the 2009 bailout's wisdom. That was then. Now, Obama has quietly released the auto manufacturer from a bailout requirement that it increase its production in the U.S. Instead, GM is spending billions of dollars building up its production capacity in ... China."
"It is yet more proof that Mitt Romney was right in the 2012 presidential campaign: GM should have gone through a traditional bankruptcy instead of the politicized farce of a taxpayer-funded bailout and government managed "bankruptcy." "
http://washington.../2537323

Oct 18, 2013
So you agree with me that USA companies violated the values of worker's intellectual property, robbing them of their livelihoods?

No, it was the US govt that violated the property rights of everyone with minimum wage laws, regulations, tariffs, trade restrictions, etc.
And who lobbied the government? Why industrialists! So you lost your argument
Many candy companies left the USA because sugar prices are artificially high in the US.
Ford was interested in making a better product.

And PROFITS, but he needed a trained and dedicated labor force to make a better product and PROFIT (gasp!).
And then he sprayed them with machine guns

Oct 18, 2013
It is not a free market when property rights are not protected.
But in many countries workers are property as well.

"The Global Slavery Index, published by the Australia-based Walk Free Foundation, lists India as the country with by far the most slaves, with an estimated nearly 14 million, followed by China (2.9 million) and Pakistan (2.1 million).

"The top 10 countries on its list of shame accounted for more than three quarters of the 29.8 million people living in slavery, with Nigeria, Ethiopia, Russia, Thailand, Democratic Republic of Congo, Myanmar and Bangladesh completing the list."

-In free markets, workers are a commodity. When supply exceeds demand, employers HAVE to pay them less or they will be run out of business by those who will.

And because the population tends to grow faster than markets do, an excess of labor is inevitable.

But in free markets workers are always property of some sort arent they ryggy? What property rights does property itself have?

Oct 18, 2013
"Bonnie Doon Ice Cream blames Obamacare for plant shutdown"

The first paragraph in RyggTard's link...

"Tuesday, FOX28 talked with owners of the Bonnie Doon plant and downtown Mishawaka location. They tell us there are many reasons for the shutdown such as the declining economy and the rise in production costs. But the number one factor? The anticipated cost of the Affordable Care Act."

So the only economic pressure to close was a declining economy and increase in production costs.

The number 1 factor that is mentioned is just theoretical. An "anticipated cost".

Further down the article it indicates that the plant isn't even effected by the new health care act.

"At Bonnie Doon, Carroll is far from 50 employees, but he knows he too will be affected by the health care changes."

But the plant employs less than 50 people. So the act doesn't apply to them.

Typical Faux news reporting. Lie in the headline.

And RyggTard fell for it - again - Tea Tards are so easily Manipulated.

Oct 18, 2013
"GM is spending billions of dollars building up its production capacity in ... China." - RyggTard

Suddenly RyggTard is anti-Free Market.

What a Low Life, Randite, Buffoon.


Oct 18, 2013
"it was the US govt that violated the property rights of everyone with minimum wage laws," - RyggTard

Just as they ban the property rights of everyone when the ban child prostitution, other forms of Child labour, and the production and sale of child pornography.

Don't children have property rights RyggTard? Aren't their bodies their property? Or are their bodies the property of someone else, and therefore slaves?

If children don't have property rights then how is your claim any more legitimate?

Poor RyggTard. He has faith that his Libertarian Clown Car universe is real, but the contradictions are so severe and his IQ so low that he can't bring himself to actually ponder the self deception in his own faith.

I bet that won't stop him from regurgitating more nonsense and dishonesty posted from random Tea-Tarder blogs, and Faux news.

Ignorant Filth.


Oct 18, 2013
This comment has been removed by a moderator.

Oct 19, 2013
fast-food workers in 60 cities went on strike calling for higher pay so they could survive without having to rely on public assistance.


actually, the thing I think is sad is that a fast food service worker around many places will make more than an EMT-Advanced

I know BK workers who make more than a cert. paramedic.

Oct 19, 2013
"I know BK workers who make more than a cert. paramedic." - Stumpy

Idiocy. Pure American Idiocy.

Oct 20, 2013
Something new. It's called free market capitalism.


I know you won't hear this, but that was already tried a long, long time ago, Rygg.

It lead to a handful of people owning everything and treating everyone else like slaves (even after slavery was abolished) and therefore led to the passage of anti-trust laws. One labor market in particular was in coal industry, where workers wer practically forced into what amounted to concentration camps, due to pathetically low wages and reliance on the employer for everything.

that's what "Free Market" does. It's anything but "Free".

It's why we have minimum wage laws and mandatory breaks and lunch breaks.

You easily spit upon people working in low wage jobs, but many people who graduate from college even end up in jobs like that, because they didn't find a job in the field they spend 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars studying.

Rygg, where do you magically invent a couple million "middle income" jobs?

Oct 20, 2013
Rygg:

You think it's all Obama's fault, but keep in mind the recession actually started under Bush, and indeed people who did taxes or accounting saw signs of it as early as 2006.

It is not Obama's fault, nor is it caused by Obamacare; that's another issue anyway. This recession was caused in large part by the Bush administration over-spending on wars in all the wrong places, using all the wrong strategies, which devalued the dollar and drove up U.S. debts to insane levels. When you spend 600 billion dollars per year on military for 10 years in a row, that starts to sting in the "wallet".

When the stocks bubble burst it devalued everyone's income from all the people who lost their jobs, and lost their homes, which decreased the revenues of the government, which drove the deficits up even higher.

Anyway, you can't magically invent a million "median income" jobs. When people can't have their first choice, they end up working in whatever is available.

Oct 20, 2013
Moreover, the Jobs did not go away because of Obama care. The jobs went away from 1 to 2 years before the end of Bush's term.

You've been told this any number of times, but you still try to deceive people on this site.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the dollar tanked. I wouldn't lose anything, lol.

So I'd be on "equal terms" when whatever new system replaces it. In fact, I own a very small piece of land that is approximately worth zero in the existing economics. Perhaps if the Dollar tanked, that piece of land would be worth something.

I'm in favor of abolishing the Dollar, and adopting a currency based on Energy consumption, since the Joule is both the basic unit of energy, and the basic unit of mass, which in turn means all matter and all "services," then currency should be tied to the Joule, not irrational things like shiny metals or paper bills.

I'm sure someone would find a way to abuse that system and hoard wealth for themselves, but at least it'd be a healthy reset for now

Oct 20, 2013
signs of it as early as 2006.

2006, that's when the democracts took over Congress.
that was already tried a long, long time ago,

When?
where do you magically invent a couple million "middle income" jobs

That's the problem you socialists have, you don't understand how markets work. How jobs are created. How wealth is created.
you can't magically invent a million "median income" jobs

But socialists can destroy millions of median income job quite easily and have been doing so for decades.

Oct 20, 2013
Socialists claim to be 'progressive' but when the industrial revolution created real progress among the masses and enabled the creation of middle class of people that had political power and no longer needed to be serfs.
Instead of celebrating such liberty, socialists took that power to control returning the people to serfdom.
This is why Hyak called his book The Road to Serfdom.
I you want to increase the size of middle class, oppose socialism.

arq
Oct 20, 2013
No minimum wage means no middle class you i***t.

Oct 20, 2013
The minimum wage is classified as 'middle class'?
With a minimum wage, employers can't afford to hire the unskilled who need to learn how to work.
How will the unskilled ever learn how to work if they can't be employed?
If they can't be employed they will never learn the skills needed by employers to increase productivity, which leads to the increased profits to pay higher salaries creating a middle class.
A minimum wage destroys the middle class.
"No employer could long pay a worker more than the value he produced for the firm. That's why economic theory and empirical observation tell us that an enforced minimum wage destroys jobs, degrades the quality of other jobs, and prevents new jobs from being created."
http://fff.org/ex...nerable/

""Poverty" pays better than middle-class employment"
http://www.humane...loyment/

Oct 20, 2013
Is the 'middle class' arg refers to?

"When a leftist talks about the middle class, he means someone who has a job and depends on government benefits. The desired outcome is the fusion of paycheck and welfare check; takers who are also makers. This allows the collectivist to harvest two types of power from the same vast group of people: confiscation of income through taxation, and direct control through the manipulation of government benefits. "
http://www.humane...loyment/

Oct 20, 2013
Socialists claim to be 'progressive' but when the industrial revolution created real progress among the masses and enabled the creation of middle class of people that had political power and no longer needed to be serfs.
Instead of celebrating such liberty, socialists took that power to control returning the people to

Actually it was most worthwhile jobs being exported, and free money given to a small cabal who are buying up what is left of the American economy, and then rent it out to the serfs who cannot afford immensely overpriced housing

Oct 20, 2013
"Today, one out of four French university graduates wants to emigrate, "and this rises to 80 per cent or 90 per cent in the case of marketable degrees","
"French unions see as their main goal the preservation of the status quo: from overprotective labour laws that make it so hard to fire employees that French bosses will do almost anything to avoid hiring new staff (who cost them a whopping 70 per cent in payroll taxes), to perpetuating antiquated regulations dating back to Vichy France, banning Sunday trading and evening shifts. "
http://www.telegr...age.html
Why is this any different from every other socialist state?

Oct 20, 2013
BHO screws taxpayers, again:
"The last auto loan the Energy Department sold off — a $50 million loan to the Vehicle Production Group — netted taxpayers a $42 million loss.

"The Obama administration has gotten into the business of picking winners and losers at a significant cost to taxpayers," said South Dakota Sen. John Thune. "From Fisker and Vehicle Production Group, to the Chinese-owned A123, this administration should not be making questionable investments with the American people's hard-earned money."

Read more: http://dailycalle...iHmjpW1S

arq
Oct 20, 2013
Without a minimum wage, who is gonna stop the employers from paying employees peanuts if they want to?


Oct 20, 2013
Without a minimum wage, who is gonna stop the employers from paying employees peanuts if they want to?


Exactly right, their would not be much difference between those paying jobs and slavery.

Oct 20, 2013
Without a minimum wage, who is gonna stop the employers from paying employees peanuts if they want to?


Competitors and employees.
Ford doubled the daily wage to $5.00 and cut work hours to improve productivity and profits in 1914. I'm bet he attracted workers from competitors who would be forced to match those wages.
If a minimum wage costs more than the job, how will the unemployed obtain a job? 'Liberals' don't care since the unemployed are another dependency group for them.

Oct 20, 2013
Rygg2 seems to think rules and regulations should apply only to individuals and companies will behave without them, he is very naive.

What he doesn't realize is he and his kind created most of the problems that created the needs these people face.

He doesn't think the government should pay for a woman"s birth control or abortions.
If he was smart he would realize having the taxpayers pay for a woman's abortion would be returned 100 to 1 in future benefits to those very same taxpayers.

He also doesn't know what really created the large middle class in the Western World. It was the 80 to 90% income tax rate started during the Second World War and not reduce drastically until Reagan. How it help created the vast middle class is quite simple, the rich ruling class found it to their benefit to pay their employees better and give them health insurance along with pension rather the give old Uncle Sam 80% of their income over a certain amount.

Oct 20, 2013
What he doesn't realize is he and his kind created most of the problems that created the needs these people face.


It is the socialist policies in France that are driving people to find work outside of France.
It is socialist policies in California, Detroit, Greece, etc. that are forcing people out of work.

axpayers pay for a woman's abortion would be returned 100 to 1 in future benefits to those very same taxpayers.

Murder all the children before they are born and there will be NO taxpayers.
It was the 80 to 90% income tax rate

That NO one paid. Which is why tax revenues, money into the treasury, increased AFTER JFK reduced RATES.
"When tax rates are reduced, the economy's growth rate improves and living standards increase. "
"...an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits" JFK
http://www.herita...rical-le

Oct 20, 2013
"According to President John F. Kennedy:

Our true choice is not between tax reduction, on the one hand, and the avoidance of large Federal deficits on the other. It is increasingly clear that no matter what party is in power, so long as our national security needs keep rising, an economy hampered by restrictive tax rates will never produce enough revenues to balance our budget just as it will never produce enough jobs or enough profits… In short, it is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high today and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now."
http://www.herita...ax-rates

Oct 20, 2013
"The Kennedy tax cuts

Just as happened in the 1920s, the share of the income tax burden borne by the rich increased following the tax cuts. Tax collections from those making over $50,000 per year climbed by 57 percent between 1963 and 1966, while tax collections from those earning below $50,000 rose 11 percent. As a result, the rich saw their portion of the income tax burden climb from 11.6 percent to 15.1 percent."
"Lower tax rates are important, but they are not the only critical issue. Both the level of government spending and where that money goes are very important."
http://www.herita...ax-rates
Unfortunately, after tax RATE reductions, and corresponding tax REVENUE increases, the 'liberals' just increased the number of socialist programs to spend the increased revenues on.
Even Sweden eliminated its tax on wealth to encourage rich Swedes to return.

Oct 20, 2013
give them health insurance

During the WWII, employers were BANNED by the socialist FDR govt from offering HIGHER wages to attract workers, but they could offer benefits like health care and pensions to attract workers.
Businesses could deduct the benefit costs from taxes, too, but NOT private individuals paying for their own health care.
Conservatives have promoted such deductions but have been opposed by 'liberals'.

Oct 20, 2013
"As part of its efforts to provide a "living wage" for all Americans, Congress passed a law to step up the minimum wage to $7.25 per hour across all U.S. states and territories by 2009.[iii] Understanding that such a law would devastate American Samoa by raising canning costs past the point where the companies could maintain profitability, the non-voting Samoan member of the U.S. House of Representatives convinced Congress to allow an exemption for the islands. However, Republicans raised allegations that Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, in whose district both Chicken of the Sea and StarKist had corporate offices, had caved to pressure from big donors and was allowing the continued "exploitation" of Samoan workers. Facing a sticky political situation, the exemption was removed."

Read more: http://www.busine...iIjchE8Q

Oct 20, 2013
"By imposing an artificially high minimum wage on American Samoa, without taking into account actual economic conditions on the islands, Washington essentially decided that it was better to have no one working there than have thousands of people working for wages that the politicians felt were substandard.

Meanwhile, just as the minimum wage is destroying jobs in American Samoa, it is destroying jobs here on the mainland."
"Among the unintended consequences of congressional "benevolence" are rapidly rising consumer prices, due to the higher shipping costs now necessary to bring consumer goods to the islands."

Read more: http://www.busine...iIkTIoLs

Oct 20, 2013
"Pili says the Federal shutdown in the United States will have a devastating effect on the territory's economy, especially if the budget impasse in Washington is not solved soon.

Mr Pili says Governor Lolo M. Moliga met senior officials this morning to discuss the implications of the shutdown.

He says the Territory received 87 per cent of its funding from Washington."
http://www.radioa.../1199132

"Governor Lolo Matalasi Moliga says the resurgence of the fisheries industry is a positive indicator that the American Samoa economy may be headed in the right direction.

But he says in order to make this industry competitive, it will be necessary for government to join forces with Congressman Faleomavaega Eni Hunkin to REVERSE THE MINIMUM WAGE and to provide federal incentives."
http://www.rnzi.c...id=77831

Oct 20, 2013
"According to a new report from the United States General Accountability Office (GAO), the 19 percent decline in employment in the workforce that American Samoa has experienced since 2008 was in large part the result of imposing minimum hourly wages across various industries. The island's primary industry is tuna fish canning, with major employers Chicken of the Sea closing and Starkist announcing huge layoffs. In 2008 the number of workers in the canneries was slightly more than 19,000 but has since fallen to 15,400."
"What is even more astonishing is that, despite minimum wage laws, earning overall for American Samoans has fallen. "For the period from 2006 to 2009, average inflation-adjusted earnings fell by 11 percent. This resulted from a rise in average annual earnings of about 5 percent while local prices rose by about 18 percent,"
http://www.acton....an-samoa

Oct 20, 2013
"Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren asking why the minimum wage is not $22 an hour."
{Warren was a Harvard professor who lied about being an American Indian}
"as of last month the average hourly wage in the U.S. is $23.82. "
"raising the minimum wage increases the wages of the few at the expense of the many. "
http://blog.acton...our.html

Oct 20, 2013
""People earning only the minimum wage today in the United States are usually stuck there because they have relatively little to contribute in the way of specific skills, expertise, or training; that is, their labor productivity is low." "
" both minimum-wage workers in the US and those in poverty across the globe, is that "people everywhere enhance their earning potential when they increase their own human capital in ways that have worth to others.""
http://blog.acton...age.html
It won't be long before McDonald's will be operated by machines if they are forced to pay a higher minimum wage.

Oct 20, 2013
"Without a minimum wage, who is gonna stop the employers from paying employees peanuts if they want to?" - arq

Competition for labor. But given that employers in some areas already pay their employees nothing, there is no way that the competition will keep wages from plummeting to near subsistence levels. Where many American Jobs are today.

Of course if you employer can somehow have you compete against low wage labor from third world nations then you will be forced to work for third world wages.


Oct 20, 2013
"Ford doubled the daily wage to $5.00 and cut work hours to improve productivity and profits in 1914" - RyggTard

Is that why Ford is currently moving jobs overseas for the purpose of lowering wage costs?

Are you saying that Ford was brighter than Ford?


Oct 20, 2013
""More than two-thirds of core frontline fast-food workers across the country are over the age of 20, and 68 percent are the main wage earners in their families," Doussard said. "And more than a quarter of Americans working in fast-food restaurants are parents, raising at least one child.""

Why no research to show WHY the economy is so bad? Because they are socialists who want a bad economy.

Oct 20, 2013
"little to contribute in the way of specific skills, expertise, or training; that is, their labor productivity is low." - RyggTard

What is the productivity of a CEO who doesn't actually produce anything?

Why are they often paid thousands of times what their truly productive employees earn?


Oct 20, 2013
What is the productivity of a CEO who doesn't actually produce anything?
Most CEOs aren't paid for productivity. They're paid a bribe to not fuck things up extremely. With stock options, CEOs make much more money through insider trading and timing the stock market then working on the company itself. Now stock dividends are at a historical high as nobody wants to invest in US companies. They are just chess pieces to be played and discarded along with their employees

Oct 20, 2013
Rygg2 nowhere did I mention aborting all the fetuses only the one a woman chooses NOT to have and cannot afford to abort. The payback is 100 to 1! Get Smart!

Kennedy did reduce the top income tax rate but it was Reagan who gutted it and than turn around and raised taxes 8 times mostly on the middle class.

You are right no one paid those high 80 to 90% income tax rates they gave it to their employees! Wise up! It raised wages in all industries, there was competition to get and keep the best workers. Where is your competitive spirit?

Haven't you noticed what has happen to the middle class in this country since Reagan was president? It has been going down the toilet ever since. These low top income tax rates were even a factor in sending good paying jobs overseas. Wake Up, come out of the Middle Ages and into the 21st century!


Oct 20, 2013
Rygg2, it seems to me you were born in the wrong century, wouldn't the Feudal Land Owners system of the middle ages suit you better?

Yes and how about a the Black Plague, that's a nice way to control population also don't you think?

Something you have never come to terms with is we live on a FINITE planet which has FINITE resources. And the total population can only grow at a FINITE rate as we make improvements at a FINITE rate.

Oh, and I don't want to hear about going out and living in space. I think this earth is the best place mankind will ever find and I want to stay right here, thank you.


Oct 20, 2013
What absolute and unmitigated garbage. Low-wage fast-food jobs cost taxpayers $7billion ???
There is nothing in the law, morality, nor logic that makes any employer responsible for anything related to an employee other than paying the agreed wage and benefits and complying with the law. If an employee is murdered 4 hours after getting off work in a crack house across town from their home, the employer is NOT responsible for the murder.
If 52% of low-wage employees take gov't benefits that the gov't decides to give them then the employers have SAVED the gov't $6.45 billion in benefits NOT paid the the 48% of such workers that do not receive those benefits. That is the truth of the matter.

Oct 20, 2013
"Haven't you noticed what has happen to the middle class in this country since Reagan was president?" - Pressure2

Reagan's war on the middle class is all to clear. To get his massive tax cuts for the wealthy he also cut taxes on the poor. They essentially matched a 10% trillion dollar reduction in taxes on the wealthy with a 5% reduction 10 million reduction for the poor, and stuck the middle class with the bill for both.

Oct 20, 2013
The reason I think the earth is the best place mankind will ever find is because it is the earth that created us through by the process of evolution. And the best part of that creation was womankind!

And don't think nature is not helping us control our population right now? For countries NOT doing it by government paid birth control programs and abortions the population it is being controlled by starvation, diseases and WAR. Oh, you don't believe it? Just take a look at the Middle East and in many third world countries. It would soon be happening even in this country if Rygg2 and his kind had their way!


Oct 20, 2013
You are right no one paid those high 80 to 90% income tax rates they gave it to their employees!

There are 'liberals' here who assert this is a science site and complain when economics and politics are discussed.
Yet when economic and politics ARE discussed, it is the 'liberal' that cannot provide data to support their faith in socialism.
Feudal Land Owners system of the middle ages suit you better?

You don't get it, feudalism IS the socialist objective. That is why Hayek's bood is called The Road to Serfdom. He shows how socialists of all parties are returning the world to feudalism.
e live on a FINITE planet which has FINITE resources.

Now it comes out. You don't understand how wealth is created. A typical problem for socialists.

Oct 20, 2013
"The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by an astounding 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%. A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982. In addition, from 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks."
"The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it. This set a new record for the longest peacetime expansion ever, the previous high in peacetime being 58 months."
"Nearly 20 million new jobs were created during the recovery, increasing U.S. civilian employment by almost 20%. Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989."
http://www.forbes...gures/2/

Oct 20, 2013
"The U.S. economy in the 1950s and 1960s benefited greatly from its temporary postwar position as the world's dominant industrial producer. That, along with a constrained labor supply from the 1930s baby bust and from war casualties, produced huge income gains for workers. "
"When it comes down to it, "middle-out" economics seems little more than a mildly clever rebranding of pre-Clinton, Democratic economics: high taxes, protectionism, and industrial policy all held together by boomer nostalgia for the '50s and '60s. It's the familiar leftist dream of redistribution over wealth creation. "
http://www.aei.or...onomics/

Oct 20, 2013
These low top income tax rates were even a factor in sending good paying jobs overseas.

What?
If the govt A is going to take 90% of my income, profits, etc, and govt B will only take 30%, where would you live?
Sweden ended its wealth tax because their rich moved out.
The US has a high capital gains tax, high income taxes and a stagnant and declining economy.
That is not a coincidence.
"In 2012, Canada will collect about 1.9 percent of GDP in federal corporate income tax revenues with a 15 percent tax rate. The United States will collect about 1.6 percent of GDP with a 35 percent tax rate. Do we need any more evidence that our high corporate tax rate makes no sense?"

Read more: http://dailycalle...iJQNRLcm

Oct 20, 2013
Rygg2, you really don't get it do you? Feudalism IS unfettered capitalism!

The low collection rates on corporate taxes has little to do with the tax rate itself. It is all about loopholes corporate lobbyist had their dupes in congress insert over the years.

Tax rates in Sweden are still much higher that in the US. Taxes in Sweden take about 50% of their GDP.

As for moving jobs overseas, here again you just don't get it. If I own a plant in the US where my employees make $25 dollars and hour my top tax rate is 50% but it would go to 75% if I moved the plant it overseas where I would only have to pay my employees a $1 and hour but managing the plant in a far away place It just might not be worth the extra headaches would it?

Gees, look at it this way if we still had a top income tax rate of 75% companies in the US would still be giving their employees pensions and health care and Obama care wouldn't be needed then, would it?

Oct 20, 2013
As for the wealthy moving out of Sweden because of a wealth tax, or France because of their high income tax rates, let them. A wealth tax and an income tax are not the same thing, if the they move out they still have to pay income taxes on the money made in the country they are doing business in. The cure to that is an even higher corporate income tax rate so when they move out they can take VERY little profits out of the country.

Oct 21, 2013
"If the govt A is going to take 90% of my income, profits, etc, and govt B will only take 30%, where would you live?" - RyggTard

If I make $1.00 a year in country B but $100 in country A then I'd live in country A all I valued was money. Otherwise quality of life has to be factored in.

Is money all you Value TardieBoy?

How many dollars of love do you have for your country, your wife, your children?

How about you start answering the questions people ask you?

Too afraid that you might need to think to answer them?

Oct 21, 2013
"The US has a high capital gains tax" - RyggTard

Liar, Liar... Pants on Fire....

http://taxfoundat...011-oecd

Why is it that you are regularly caught lying TardieBoy?

Oct 21, 2013
"In 2012, Canada will collect about 1.9 percent of GDP in federal corporate income tax revenues with a 15 percent tax rate. The United States will collect about 1.6 percent of GDP with a 35 percent tax rate." - RyggTard

The table I provided shows Canada's rate is 22.5 percent. Not 15 percent.

Oct 21, 2013
"The U.S. economy in the 1950s and 1960s benefited greatly from its temporary postwar position as the world's dominant industrial producer. " - American Enterprise Institute quoted by RyggTard

Correct. It was never American business acumen that put the U.S. on top of the worlds industrial producers, it was lack of competition from countries that were reduced to ashes during WW1 and WW2.

And as competition has increased, America is now increasingly seen to be incapable of competing on the world stage because it never could compete on the world stage without the other nations being crippled by war.


Oct 21, 2013
Feudalism IS unfettered capitalism!

Fudealism is socialism. The state owns/controls all.
if we still had a top income tax rate of 75%

RATES and REVENUES are not the same.
Socialists still can't make that connections.
But then how can a disciple of Paul Ehrlich understand how wealth is created?
higher corporate income tax rate so when they move out they can take VERY little profits out of the country.

They why would any company do any business is such a state?
Tax all the US profits of Toyota and why would Toyota sell cars or make cars in the US?

Oct 21, 2013
"The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990." - RyggTard quoting Forbes

Reagan borrowed over 2 trillion in current dollars over that period, and that borrowed money kept the U.S. economy growing Reagan's tenure.

Over that period the U.S. economy became habituated on that government stimulus, and over time it's stimulating effects were lost, and economic recessions returned.

All through that period, Conservatives were denying that the massive Reagan Deficits were a problem, and morons like Rush Limbaugh hailed them as the Genius of Republican Economics that had "repealed the business cycle."

Traitors.


Oct 21, 2013
"There are 'liberals' here who assert this is a science site and complain when economics and politics are discussed." - RyggTard

In the years you have been here posting your tea-tard Idiocy, you have never engaged in a debate.

You are incapable of debating.

You have never even answered a single question that has been put to you.

And like all Republicans you have shown yourself to be a habitual liar.

Oct 21, 2013
Minimum wage laws have destroyed the economy of American Samoa making them wards of the socialist state.
The data is clear.
No comment from the socialists who demand higher minimum wage laws therefore they must know the objective of minimum wage laws is to force workers into becoming wards of the state and anyone else who is still employed to be serfs to the socialist state.

Oct 21, 2013
"Most CEOs aren't paid for productivity." - Kochevnic

Correct.


Oct 21, 2013
"The opposition, backed by businesses, says one way to help non-oil businesses would be to cut the nation's wealth tax, especially on working capital, because it's hindering small business from growing.

According to Ulstein, who's also chairman of shipbuilder Ulstein Group ASA, taxes have become so high that many owners have to sell their businesses in order to finance payments. "
""One of the big issues as owners we see in Norway is the wealth tax, which is not stimulating ownership, and is especially tough for entrepreneurs and early-starters." "
http://www.bloomb...ner.html

Oct 21, 2013
"Sweden does have high taxes. Government revenues were 49% of GDP in 2011. (In the U.S., they were 32% of GDP, including federal, state, and local governments.) But Sweden gets that revenue from everyone, not just "the rich." The top 10% of income earners in Sweden made 26.6% of all income, and they paid 26.7% of all taxes, for a ratio of 1.00 -- perfectly flat. In the U.S., the ratio was 1.35, the most progressive of all advanced economies."
"When Sweden's government was the biggest spender, its economy totally stalled: zero growth for five years. What grew was its debt. And even with extremely high taxes, it ran huge deficits.

Then it changed its high-spending ways. It cut spending, drastically, and over an extended period of time -- going on 18 years now.

Keynesians tell us that cutting government spending will slow economic growth. The exact opposite happened with Sweden."
http://www.americ...ity.html

Oct 21, 2013
Regarding American Samoa...

"Chicken of the Sea closed its operations in the Territory, displacing over 2,000 workers whose jobs were outsourced to Thailand where workers are paid 75 cents and less per hour to clean fish," - Eni Faleomavaega - Delegate to Congress

Yup. The action by Chicken of the Sea shows that without restrictions, corporations want wages in the 75 cents an hour or less range.

Isn't that right TardieBoy?

Oct 21, 2013
"The opposition, backed by businesses, says one way to help non-oil businesses would be to cut the nation's wealth tax, especially on working capital, because it's hindering small business from growing." - RyggTard quoting a Conservative looking for money.

What RyggTard doesn't report - from his own link.

The Conservatives have proposed cutting the wealth tax to 0.5 percent from 1.1 percent and raising the threshold to 25 million kroner ($4.1 million) from 870,000 kroner.

Only 0.4 of that 1.1 is a federal tax.

So a Norwegian millionaire takes his money, put's it in a bank and gets 3 percent interest, and then has to pay 1.1 percent in tax on his millions.

He still comes out 1.9 percent ahead.

What a poor Rich guy. He isn't making money as fast as he could.

That makes RyggTard Cry.


Oct 21, 2013
"Keynesians tell us that cutting government spending will slow economic growth." - RyggTard

No it doesn't, you MORON.

There is no clear, simple relationship that tiny minds like yours can understand.

You might as well try and argue that spending money makes you fat because people use money to purchasing food.

Government spending may or may not improve the economy, through all scales of magnitude, and that depends on how and when it is spent.

Typical Idiot RyggTard.

You need to learn some economics before you start mumbling nonsense about things you don't understand.

Oct 21, 2013
"Fudealism is socialism. The state owns/controls all." - RyggTard

There is no "state" under Feudelism. Fool.

The classic François-Louis Ganshof version of feudalism describes a set of reciprocal legal and military obligations among the warrior nobility, revolving around the three key concepts of lords, vassals and fiefs.

Do you intend to remain a MORON for the rest of your life RyggTard?

Oct 21, 2013
They're paid a bribe to not fuck things up extremely.

BHO is not getting paid enough?

Oct 21, 2013
unfettered capitalism

Oxymoronic.
Capitalism is ALWAYS 'fettered' by competition and customers.
When cronies beg, bribe favors from the state to force customers to buy from them (sugar price subsidies) and/or when the state forces competitors out of business with onerous regulations (Obamacare), then capitalism no longer exists and the state controls markets (socialism).

arq
Oct 21, 2013
@ryggesogn2


Competitors will only pay more if there is a shortage of skilled or semi skilled workers. Not when there is no shortage of semi or unskilled workers. And there is not exactly a shortage of workers who can work in the fast food industry. You are right about employees though..... they will try to stop....thats how unions arose. But you dont like them. So if you take away unions its left to the employers alone.

Oct 21, 2013
And there is not exactly a shortage of workers who can work in the fast food industry.

Why not?

If socialists would spend more time worrying about WHY the ONLY jobs are fast food, maybe the fast food industry would find it had a shortage of labor.
But socialist are more concerned about control, power, than about individual liberty, individual prosperity and a growing economy.

Oct 21, 2013
"Looking at things as they are is not racist, and acknowledging class division does not make one in Leninist. Morrill is a Swedish-style traditional social democrat, who did his post-graduate work at Sweden's prestigious Lund University. You also simply cannot rule out cultural factors – such as family, religion, belief in education, as well as belief in self-sufficiency – as key determinants in individual, as well as regional, economic equality."
"This growing inequality, with its racial connotations, is fundamentally socially unsustainable. Yet how to restart upward mobility remains a difficult proposition. Progressives might shout loudest about inequality, but their economic policies have failed to produce either upward mobility or greater equality.

Indeed, under the current liberal regime, the prospects for the poor and working class have decreased markedly while the wealthy, often villainized by the administration, have luxuriated. "
http://www.ocregi...equality

Oct 21, 2013
"racial economic disparities are mostly unchanged or are growing. The black unemployment rate remains more than double the white jobless rate and reaches 40 percent among black youth.

A debate is needed now about what policies best promote upward mobility. Some combination of encouraging broader-based economic growth and nurturing fundamental values of education, family and social engagement arguably offers the best approach. It is a message likely neither political party particularly wants to hear, but it's one they need to acknowledge and confront.

Register opinion columnist Joel Kotkin is R.C. Hobbs Professor of Urban Studies at Chapman University. He is the executive editor of www.newgeography.com."
http://www.ocregi...ell.html
For those 'progressives' using Scandinavia as your role model, will you acknowledge the importance of its culture?

Oct 21, 2013
"Many liberals celebrate diversity in any form, and tend to reject the importance of culture in economic success. " from OC Register
Unless, of course, the culture is Jewish.

arq
Oct 21, 2013
@ryggesogn2,
Fast food industry depends mostly on workers who are low skilled. That means there will never be a shortage of them in any country as companies can easily train people to work in the fast food industry. Thats why there will never be a shortage of them. Thats why competition from other companies for workers wont make a difference unlike what you said.

Oct 21, 2013
Thats why there will never be a shortage of them.

Yes, there will and have been.
During the telecom boom in the north east, in the 90s, it was reported McDs was offering $9/hr and why Wal Mart was offering $17/hr in North Dakota.

McDonalds in Williston, ND:
Position:
Crew

Hours: 7am to 4pm

Pay: $11.00 - $12.00D.O.E.
Crew Openers

Pay: $12.00 and up D.O.E.
http://www.mcstat...24/4707/

Oct 21, 2013
"Nearly anywhere else in the country, people can't find jobs. In North Dakota, jobs can't find people.

How hard is it to hire Walmart employees? Turns out, plenty.

A new store in Mandan, North Dakota, needs 300 employees trained and ready for a Fall opening. The problem? The town's population is only 18,000.

Even considering the additional 62,000 people across the river in Bismarck, it's still difficult. One reason -- Bismarck already has two Walmart stores. Another is the smoking hot North Dakota economy where "help wanted" and "now hiring" signs are in already in abundant supply. "It is quite the task ahead of us," says Andrew Coppersmith, Store Manager for the new Walmart store in Mandan."
"Walmart says they're competitive with an average pay in North Dakota at more than $14 dollars an hour. So if you're ready, they're willing. "
http://www.kxnet....ew-store
$14! minimum is $7.25.

Oct 21, 2013
"Almost 6 million young people are neither in school nor working, according to a study released Monday." http://bigstory.a...l-work-0
But 'liberals' want to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants and import millions more.

In the mean time, we are told, truck farmers around the country are complaining they can't find people to harvest their crops.

In 1934 my grandfather and his new bride drove 9 days in a Model T from SD to WA to look for work, and he found it.

Oct 21, 2013
"Nearly anywhere else in the country, people can't find jobs. In North Dakota, jobs can't find people.

How hard is it to hire Walmart employees? Turns out, plenty.
Because nobody wants to be homeless in North Dakota

Oct 21, 2013
"Almost 6 million young people are neither in school nor working, according to a study released Monday." _ RyggTard

That's what you get when you vote for a Republican Moron likw Goeorge Bush Jr

It was his Economic Incompetence that caused the current economic Amerifailure.

Oct 21, 2013
"A new store in Mandan, North Dakota, needs 300 employees trained and ready for a Fall opening. The problem? The town's population is only 18,000." - RyggTard

18,000 means an employable population of around 8,000 people.

If the unemployment rate is 5% then that represents 400 people who might be out of work.

But it is probable that no one wants to work for the amount walmart is paykng...

arq
Oct 22, 2013
@ryggesogn2,


I never said there never was, i said there will never be.

Oct 22, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "Fudealism is socialism. The state owns/controls all."

You cannot even get this straight. In a democratic socialist state the PEOPLE own and control all. Under feudalism ONE person owns and controls everything. It is the end result of unregulated pure capitalism.

Look at it this way, does your feudal landlord supply you with food or medical care in your time of need or in your old age. NO WAY.

Oct 22, 2013
higher corporate income tax rate so when they move out they can take VERY little profits out of the country.

Quote Rygg2: "They why would any company do any business is such a state?
Tax all the US profits of Toyota and why would Toyota sell cars or make cars in the US?"

You have a severe problem in comprehension. You do know the difference between moving in and moving out don't you?

Oct 22, 2013
he PEOPLE own and control all.

Really? How?
Millions of people vote everyday to control everything? Actually, this is how free markets work. Millions of people make hundreds of decisions everyday with their choices of what to buy and not to buy. Markets respond to deliver and to innovate creating new products the PEOPLE want and need.
The fundamental constant for socialism is central control. Whether that control is from a king, a baron, a dictator or a committed of 'the people', the common theme is top down, central control.
does your feudal landlord supply you with food or medical care in your time of need or in your old age.


The socialist state won't either when they run out of other people's money.
However, a free market products called investments can provide the resources needed to retire.

Oct 22, 2013
"Almost 6 million young people are neither in school nor working, according to a study released Monday." http://bigstory.a...l-work-0
But 'liberals' want to grant amnesty to illegal immigrants and import millions more.

In the mean time, we are told, truck farmers around the country are complaining they can't find people to harvest their crops.

In 1934 my grandfather and his new bride drove 9 days in a Model T from SD to WA to look for work, and he found it.

Of course this wouldn't dawn on you but:
1. It takes time for word of jobs to spread.
2. Many people are reluctant to leave a supportive family and friends.
3. Probably most of the people who could fill these jobs DON'T have the assets need to relocate.
4. And just how far does $14 dollars a hour go when renting housing in a market with a severe shortage?

Oct 22, 2013
Quote Rygg2, "The fundamental constant for socialism is central control. Whether that control is from a king, a baron, a dictator or a committed of 'the people', the common theme is top down, central control."

No, in a democracy it is control by the people and for the people. It is capitalist and lobbyist that corrupt the system. Read our constitution please.

I see you do not even know the difference between a dictatorship and a democracy. No wonder you are so confused. Like I mentioned earlier you have a severe problem with comprehending what you read.

Oct 22, 2013
in a democracy it is control by the people and for the people.

Impossible.
This would then require that 100% of 'the people' must be in 100% agreement for everything, ALL the time, or tyranny of the majority reigns.
A dictatorship of a majority is no different than a dictatorship of one or a committee. It is still a dictatorship.
3. Probably most of the people who could fill these jobs DON'T have the assets need to relocate.

Why should they relocate? Why won't the local govts stop punishing those who want to create jobs? But, if Detroit or CA or NY want to punish entrepreneurs with high taxes and regulations, move to more business friendly jurisdictions. People can follow or become wards of the state.

Oct 22, 2013
in a democracy it is control by the people and for the people.

Impossible.
This would then require that 100% of 'the people' must be in 100% agreement for everything, ALL the time, or tyranny of the majority reigns.
A dictatorship of a majority is no different than a dictatorship of one or a committee. It is still a dictatorship.
3. Probably most of the people who could fill these jobs DON'T have the assets need to relocate.

Why should they relocate? Why won't the local govts stop punishing those who want to create jobs? But, if Detroit or CA or NY want to punish entrepreneurs with high taxes and regulations, move to more business friendly jurisdictions. People can follow or become wards of the state.

Like I stated before you don't even know what the word democracy means. Unregulated capitalism leads to feudalism that ends in a dictatorship.

Believe me when they pay enough to make it worth the move the workers will be there to fill the job

Oct 22, 2013
P, why won't Detroit or CA or NY or....create a business climate that creates work?

Democracy means majority rule, 50%+1 controls the 50%-1.

"Unregulated capitalism" No such thing since competitors and customers regulate capitalism.
Why do socialists keep up this lie about capitalism?
In a feudal system, the govt controls the property, the lives of the serfs.
Under capitalism, the govt protects the property of every individual.

Oct 22, 2013
"The memory of that Marquette student came back to me, years later, when another black young man said that he had wanted to become a pilot, and had even planned to join the Air Force in order to do so. But then, he said, he now "realized" that "The Man" would never allow a black guy to become a pilot.

This was said decades after a whole squadron of black fighter plane pilots made a reputation for themselves in World War II, as the "Tuskegee Airmen." There have been black generals in the Air Force.

Both these young men -- and many others -- have learned all too well the lessons taught by race hustlers, in their social version of the laws of aerodynamics, which said that they could not rise."

Read more: http://www.realcl...iT4mfLQd
Follow us: @RCP_Articles on Twitter
From Thomas Sowell, who is no longer considered to be black by 'liberals'.

Oct 22, 2013
Quote Rygg2: ""Unregulated capitalism" No such thing since competitors and customers regulate capitalism.
Why do socialists keep up this lie about capitalism?
In a feudal system, the govt controls the property, the lives of the serfs.
Under capitalism, the govt protects the property of every individual."

Under unregulated capitalism competition would vanish in a few decades. The customers would then have NO choices. Only when capitalism is regulated does competition flourish and customers have choices.

Oct 22, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "P, why won't Detroit or CA or NY or....create a business climate that creates work?
Democracy means majority rule, 50%+1 controls the 50%-1."

CA and NY are doing very well thank you. Two out of three isn't that bad. In fact NY city is probably doing better than any other city in the US. Their real estate prices never dropped during the Great Recession caused by Bush.

These are your three choices, democracy, dictatorship or anarchy, In a democracy 50% plus 1 rules, in a dictatorship 1 rules and in anarchy 100% rule. It appears you favor anarchy, is that correct?


Oct 22, 2013
unregulated capitalism

There is no such thing.

Oct 22, 2013
unregulated capitalism

There is no such thing.

Thank Goodness

Oct 22, 2013
"But there are larger reasons why robust growth eludes New York — in particular, its well-earned reputation as being hostile both to business and economic success.

New York's comparatively high taxes (on corporate and personal incomes, on estates and property) coupled with the most aggressive regulatory climate in the nation, surely signal that growth should be happening elsewhere."
http://nypost.com...mic-gap/
"Between 1992 and 2010, California lost a staggering $45.27 billion in annual adjusted gross income (AGI), and the lion's share of it went to low- or no-income-tax states that offer more business-friendly economic climates. "
http://www.forbes...en-more/

Oct 22, 2013
These are your three choices, democracy, dictatorship or anarchy, In a democracy 50% plus 1 rules, in a dictatorship 1 rules and in anarchy 100% rule. It appears you favor anarchy, is that correct?


The world's nation states exist in anarchy. There is no world govt.
The choice you didn't mention is a republic, which is the official govt of the USA. A constitutional republic limits the power of the state and is supposed to protect the property rights of the individual.
Anarchy is preferable to socialism. Under anarchy, Somalia performed as well, or better, than their neighbors under socialism.
Anarchy does not mean that society disappears.
Under anarchy, the people will have the opportunity to follow the advice provided by Bastiat in The Law, creating law that does not plunder, but prevents injustice by protecting private property.

Oct 22, 2013
unregulated capitalism

There is no such thing.

Thank Goodness

So why do you keep stating that capitalism can exist without regulation?
Capitalism thrives best when the regulation is by customers and competitors.

Oct 22, 2013
"my concept of regime uncertainty is something quite different. It is a form of uncertainty related to the public's — especially the private investors' — confidence in the future security of private property rights, which can be impaired by future regulatory changes (e.g., Dodd-Frank and Obamacare regulations), court decisions, administrative twists and turns, tax increases in various forms (e.g., Obamacare penalties enforced through the income-tax system), monetary-policy changes that threaten the dollar's purchasing power and distort the allocation of credit, and personnel changes in the government's corps of executives, judges, and assorted capos."

Read more: http://dailycalle...iUfkrD7c

Oct 22, 2013
"Evidence from public opinion polls and corporate bond markets shows that FDR's policies prevented a robust recovery of long-term private investment by significantly reducing investors' confidence in the durability of private property rights. "
http://www.indepe...sp?a=430

Oct 22, 2013
unregulated capitalism

There is no such thing.

Thank Goodness

So why do you keep stating that capitalism can exist without regulation?
Capitalism thrives best when the regulation is by customers and competitors.

Because it has in the past in the feudal European states. And if you had your way I fear it could happen again.

Oct 22, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "The world's nation states exist in anarchy. There is no world govt.
The choice you didn't mention is a republic, which is the official govt of the USA. A constitutional republic limits the power of the state and is supposed to protect the property rights of the individual.
Anarchy is preferable to socialism. Under anarchy, Somalia performed as well, or better, than their neighbors under socialism."

There are all kinds of variations in the basic choice of the three. A republic is just a mixture of a dictatorship and a democracy. All democracies are a combination of the two. After all we learn from the past and everything needs rules by which to operate. That goes DOUBLE for corporations because they are not democracies and would answer to no one unless required.

I find it hard to believe you made the statement that anarchy is preferable to socialism. If you really believe that and you consider the US a socialist state maybe you should consider emigrating.

Oct 22, 2013
"Evidence from public opinion polls and corporate bond markets shows that FDR's policies prevented a robust recovery of long-term private investment by significantly reducing investors' confidence in the durability of private property rights. "
http://www.indepe...sp?a=430

Your last two post are more of your right wing tripe. Business thrives best with certainty. That is why Obama should have let ALL the Bush tax cuts expire. That would have reduced our deficit and brought certainty to are allies around the world as well as the corporation in the US.

Oct 22, 2013
Feudalism has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with state control of private property, socialism.
With anarchy, which means "no government", individuals have the liberty to protect themselves and their property and to join with like minded individuals. Anyone who desires socialist central planning either desires to be in control of others or likes being taken care of. They definitely don't like individual liberty or respect their fellow human beings.
BHO had little choice but to make the Bush tax cuts permanent. He even admitted raising taxes in a recession is a bad idea.
The US has been a socialist state for over 100 years when the 'progressives' launched the Regulatory State, in violation of the spirit and intent of the US Constitution. But that can be changed by following the Constitution's amendment process and does not required the approval of Congress, the President or the SCOTUS.

Oct 23, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "Feudalism has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with state control of private property, socialism.
With anarchy, which means "no government", individuals have the liberty to protect themselves and their property and to join with like minded individuals. Anyone who desires socialist central planning either desires to be in control of others or likes being taken care of. They definitely don't like individual liberty or respect their fellow human beings.
BHO had little choice but to make the Bush tax cuts permanent. He even admitted raising taxes in a recession is a bad idea."

Feudalism is the end result of unregulated capitalism and anarchy. You mention that like minded people would join together for protection. WHAT A PIPE DREAM.

As like minded people multiply with limited resources they will soon split into fighting factions. It will happen EVERY time. Just look at the history of religion and politics.


Oct 23, 2013
Feudalism is the end result of unregulated capitalism and anarchy.

BS!
Under feudalism, the state OWNS the means of production, and leases this out to the serfs.
The modern day equivalent is the radio spectrum or federal land leased for grazing or oil drilling. This is just another form of socialism where the state controls private property.

unregulated capitalism

Again, you keep using a specious term. You even agreed, capitalism is NEVER unregulated. In a free market, capitalism is regulated by customers and competitors.

Oct 23, 2013
Continued: That is why to make a true change in the history of mankind we need some new ideas.

1. Using our brains to control our natural desire to multiply uncontrollably.

2,3,4,5. are the same.

Look at it this way. When and if mankind start migrating to other planets or solar systems do you think the people on those spaceships will be able to multiply indiscriminately? Absolutely NOT.

Well the earth is our only spaceship at the present time and maybe for a very long time into the future. So get into the 21st century.

Oct 23, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "BS!
Under feudalism, the state OWNS the means of production, and leases this out to the serfs.
The modern day equivalent is the radio spectrum or federal land leased for grazing or oil drilling. This is just another form of socialism where the state controls private property.

You still don't get it do you? Under feudalism 1 person owns everything, they are a dictator. And everyone else works for this dictator who acquired his position by either violence or a monopoly of power acquired under an unregulated capitalism system.

I assume you believe that under capitalism wealth should only be acquired by the results of one's efforts, don't? Well, did anyone create the EM spectrum, or put to oil in the ground, or create the land own jointly by a country? I think NOT. So why shouldn't these things be under a the control of a democratically elected government for the benefit of everyone?

Oct 23, 2013
Capitalism thrives best when the regulation is by customers and competitors.

When one competitor begins to cheat to reduce costs (makes unsafe products/makes uncompetitive deals with suppliers/employs desperate workers for below minimum wage), they gain an advantage over the competitor not cheating, effectively forcing that one to cheat to compete. Since consumers cannot identify all factors that result in a substandard product, and are easily swayed(hence advertising) they are very inefficient at regulating the market.

Oct 23, 2013
monopoly of power

Can NOT result from capitalism.
unregulated capitalism

Again, there is no such thing as unregulated capitalism.
did anyone create the EM spectrum,

Did the state create the EM spectrum? No, so why should the state own it? A capitalist, using his knowledge and capital creates a radar, a radio ... that creates wealth from the EM spectrum owns the property he created and the wealth generated from that property. The capitalist added VALUE to the EM spectrum just as a homesteaded adds value the land he clears and farms. If the capitalist can't own the land, can't own the spectrum he adds value to, then why should he expend any capital to increase its value?
How many people would pay for a new kitchen in a house they are renting?
very inefficient at regulating the market.

Really? Consumer's were quick to note the crappy cars Detroit made when the govt allowed Japan and Germany to import more. UL, IIHS, Consumer Reports all report on bad products.

Oct 23, 2013
I'm sure BHO doesn't like Consumer Reports warning people NOT to buy into Obamacare.
Not long ago a Chinese company tried to cheat on the protein content in pet food. It made pets sick and the Canadian company that unknowingly bought the bad product immediately recalled all their products and made sure they never allowed such contamination again.
The Chinese govt hired the NSF to set up a test program to prevent any recurrence. The NSF is NOT a govt organization.
Those capitalist who really want to cheat bribe the govt to create regulations that limit their competition. That was the motive behind the FDA.
How many people get sick every year from govt 'inspected' meat, eggs, ....? Too many so why trust the govt? The govt has nothing to loose. A capitalist has everything to loose if he lies, cheats and steals like the govt does.

Oct 23, 2013
Madoff's Pozi scheme was enabled by the SEC. After all, the SEC is the govt agency that is supported to protect people from cheats like Madoff, but the SEC did nothing for many years suggesting to his potential victims Madoff was legit.
It was Madoff's competition that tried to get the SEC to act.
The competition could have advertised they thought Madoff was cheating and let consumers decide.

Oct 23, 2013
I'm sure BHO doesn't like Consumer Reports warning people NOT to buy into Obamacare.
Not long ago a Chinese company tried to cheat on the protein content in pet food. It made pets sick and the Canadian company that unknowingly bought the bad product immediately recalled all their products and made sure they never allowed such contamination again.
The Chinese govt hired the NSF to set up a test program to prevent any recurrence. The NSF is NOT a govt organization.
Those capitalist who really want to cheat bribe the govt to create regulations that limit their competition. That was the motive behind the FDA.
How many people get sick every year from govt 'inspected' meat, eggs, ....? Too many so why trust the govt? The govt has nothing to loose. A capitalist has everything to loose if he lies, cheats and steals like the govt does.

Yes and the Chinese may have got blamed for something they did not do. I use to buy Iams can cat food, I found mold in some cans. It made my cat sick.

Oct 23, 2013
Madoff's Pozi scheme was enabled by the SEC. After all, the SEC is the govt agency that is supported to protect people from cheats like Madoff, but the SEC did nothing for many years suggesting to his potential victims Madoff was legit.
It was Madoff's competition that tried to get the SEC to act.
The competition could have advertised they thought Madoff was cheating and let consumers decide.

You are blaming the wrong entity. HEY, IT WAS THE CAPITALIST MADOFF WHO WAS THE CROOK! The SEC is not perfect, but it did no wrong. It will never catch and stop all the capitalist crooks before the scam people.

Oct 23, 2013
Rygg2' you seem to think that it is just terrible when a government agency makes mistakes but you show NO outrage when a capitalist gives the public bacteria poisonings that cause people to get sick and even DIE. Believe me, it would be a lot worst if we did not have the SEC, the Disease Control Center, food inspectors and a host of other regulations controlling the greed of UNREGULATED capitalist. It would be the law of the Jungle and we would soon be a Third World Country.

Back to the Iam's can cat food. The mold I found in the cans was chunks which could only have come from a food processing line the had NOT been cleaned for days if not weeks.

Oct 23, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "Did the state create the EM spectrum? No, so why should the state own it? A capitalist, using his knowledge and capital creates a radar, a radio ... that creates wealth from the EM spectrum owns the property he created and the wealth generated from that property. The capitalist added VALUE to the EM spectrum just as a homesteaded adds value the land he clears and farms. If the capitalist can't own the land, can't own the spectrum he adds value to, then why should he expend any capital to increase its value?
How many people would pay for a new kitchen in a house they are renting?"

Your lack of knowledge is astounding. The EM spectrum is sold off to the highest bidder and ALL improvements they make using the spectrum more efficiently they benefit from. In fact they can resell their part of the spectrum at a profit. The system is fair, how would you allocate the spectrum, by flipping coins?

Like I said before no man created the EM Spectrum, therefor it belongs to all.

Oct 23, 2013
Not long ago a Chinese company tried to cheat on the protein content in pet food. It made pets sick and the Canadian company that unknowingly bought the bad product immediately recalled all their products and made sure they never allowed such contamination again.
The Chinese govt hired the NSF to set up a test program to prevent any recurrence. The NSF is NOT a govt organization.

Absolutely correct!

Oh...but you left out the part where in the time it took this to happen thousands of families, especially those with children, were devastated by the death or illness of their pets, and financially impacted by vet bills in the hundreds or thousands of dollars that were never reimbursed by the culprits of this "free market correction". Something along these lines even occurred that involved baby formula !

RYGGTARD/MARJON: you are and always have been...a total moron.

Oct 23, 2013
the culprits of this "free market correction"

The culprits were shot by the socialist Chinese govt.
Sue the socialist Chinese govt for failing to inspect their exports.
Govt is great so sue them when they fail.
therefor it belongs to all.

But the state can sell it? Do the oceans belong to all? How about all the range and timber 'owned by all'?
'Owned by all' is bs.
The SEC is not perfect, but it did no wrong.

They FAILED to do their job. Even when a competitor provided the details.
"A whistleblower who repeatedly warned the Securities and Exchange Commission that Bernard Madoff was perpetrating a massive investment fraud testified Wednesday that the regulatory agency that oversees financial markets is inept, "financially illiterate" and far too cozy with the financial titans it is supposed to be regulating."
http://money.cnn....eblower/

Oct 23, 2013
" Bernard Madoff thought regulators had caught him in 2006 and was "astonished" U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission investigators never followed up on information he gave them, the agency's internal watchdog said. "
""They never verified Madoff's purported trading with any independent third parties." By checking with the clearing agency, the SEC would have "immediately realized that Madoff was not trading in anywhere near the volume that he was showing on the customer statements."

The Kotz report detailed repeated missed opportunities by the agency after being alerted to Madoff's Ponzi scheme activities at least six times dating back to 1992. "
http://www.bloomb...VXWJSeiI
Who was fired at SEC? Who was sued at SEC to recover funds lost?
Govt regulators can fail, destroying peoples lives, but they won't be held to account by 'liberals'.

Oct 23, 2013
"Since 2007, the FDA has issued three warnings about the products, but has not issued a recall.

So far, scientists have not been able to determine exactly what is causing the kidney problems in the pets. Pierre wants the company to take action of its own.

"I think they have misled the consumers into thinking they really care about these animals and they don't," Pierre said.

The company, meanwhile, insists that the treats are safe and that they have tests to prove it.

In a statement, the company said: "We have a dedicated team of quality control experts in China, particularly in the plants where Waggin' Train products are produced.""
http://pittsburgh...ng-sick/
The company is taking action and consumers can take their own action and not buy them.

Oct 23, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "therefor it belongs to all.

But the state can sell it? Do the oceans belong to all? How about all the range and timber 'owned by all'?
'Owned by all' is bs. "

What do you propose? Letting the "free market" just use the frequencies at will? That would be chaos and the frequencies would be nothing but static most of the time and useless to all.

So the state MUST be the one to sell off the original rights. And because in a democracy everyone owns the government so everybody originally owns the frequencies just like the land not in private hands, as well as the timber and mineral resources on public lands.

Nations do claim territorial ocean limits around their borders and in the US drilling right are auctioned off just like the land rights were originally sold off or given to who ever would settle there and use it.


Oct 23, 2013
the culprits of this "free market correction"

The culprits were shot by the socialist Chinese govt.
Sue the socialist Chinese govt for failing to inspect their exports.
Govt is great so sue them when they fail.


NO, they weren't shot. You appear to be confusing this with the fate of Zheng Xiaoyu. And even if they had been, here's the point: WHO CARES? Shooting them or suing the Chinese government doesn't bring back the dead or heal the crippled sacrificed on the Alter of your Pure and Unfettered Capitalism, and would be unlikely to produce any tangible results in any case except bring more hardship to the victims and feed lawyers, you fraud.

The only thing that can control the utterly selfish impulses of narcissistic, psychopathological and pathological liar capitalists (and wannabes, as in your case) is strong regulation and enforcement, especially surrounding safety issues and product claims.

Oct 23, 2013
Letting the "free market" just use the frequencies at will? That would be chaos and the frequencies would be nothing but static most of the time and useless to all.

Where is the profit in that?
How are the Mexican stations controlled by FCC?

Unfettered Capitalism

No such thing.
Melamine contamination was/is the result of passing minimum protein level tests. Melamine skewed the data to show higher protein content.
Where did that requirement come from? Who enforced the standards?
You all seem to think that if only the state passes some law then all will be well. No one will dare break that law/regulation.
Regulations are useless if the state won't enforce the law and regulatory agencies have thousands of regulations to enforce and no consequence for failure.
Private companies do face severe and immediate consequences for failure and will take proactive steps.

Oct 23, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "Where is the profit in that?
How are the Mexican stations controlled by FCC?"

I am not sure what you mean by, "Where is the profit in that?"

No, the Mexican and Canadian station are not controlled by the FCC. The governments work out agreements as to which frequencies each can use and the power permitted using those frequencies.

Oct 23, 2013
"Where is the profit in that?" - RyggTard

That is the point, dungheap. Unregulated Capitalism is universally destructive, even being destructive to itself.

"How are the Mexican stations controlled by FCC?" - RyggTard

Through international agreements between nations.

Poor Dungheap. Perpetually confused, and living on the imaginary moon of Libertaria.

Oct 23, 2013
"Melamine contamination was/is the result of passing minimum protein level tests." - RyggTard

Melamine isn't protein, Dungheap.

Corrupt businessmen made the decision to put the poison into food in order to defraud their customers by increasing the apparent protein content of their food.

Here is another example of Corporate Fraud causing mass death from the news today....

FDA Alerts Pet Owners, Vets To Possible Link Between Jerky Treats, Dogs Getting Sick

At least 3,600 dogs have been sickened since 2007 and 580 of those pets died.

This Corporate evil has been ongoing for the last 7 years without correction.

http://pittsburgh...ng-sick/

Oct 23, 2013
Regulations are useless if the state won't enforce the law and regulatory agencies have thousands of regulations to enforce and no consequence for failure.


Thanks. That's what I said. Strong regulation and enforcement (esp. where safety and products claims are concerned). And that includes severe punishment for violators.

So, yes, in the case of those responsible for the death of those babies through melamine poisoning in China, being shot should have been the least of their worries. Glad we agree on that.

Oct 23, 2013
This video provides a wonderful example of how Tea-Publicans like RyggTard, think.

http://www.youtub...fQCpYocQ

They are living on planet ignorance and self delusion..

Oct 23, 2013
""They never verified Madoff's purported trading with any independent third parties." - RyggTard

RyggTard is blissfully unaware of the fact that Madoff's organization and others were made "self regulating" by the Conservatives in Congress...

"The Office of Compliance Inspections and Examinations administers the SEC's nationwide examination and inspection program for registered self-regulatory organizations, broker-dealers, transfer agents, clearing agencies, investment companies, and investment advisers." - SEC Info

Poor RyggT-Tard. He thinks that if a stop sign doesn't prevent an accident, all stop signs should be abolished.

Oct 23, 2013
The culprits were shot by the socialist Chinese govt." - RyggTard

"Wrong again, Dungheap.

You are getting your Capitalist Crooks all mixed up.

I can understand that. There are so many of them.

Oct 23, 2013
"But the state can sell it? Do the oceans belong to all?" - RyggTard

By international convention, nation states own a buffer of ocean around their nation - if they have any ocean shore lines.

Those waters are owned by the state in the name of the people and administered by the state in the name of the people.

You certainly aren't stupid enough to believe that you personally own a portion of the ocean?

How many cubic meters of ocean do you own? Do you keep it in a plastic bag to prevent it from wandering into the pieces of ocean owned by other people?

Answer, because curious minds want to know how far your mental disease has progressed.


Oct 23, 2013
"Madoff's Pozi scheme was enabled by the SEC." - RyggTard

In exactly the same way that disease is enabled by doctors who fail to produce a cure.

Oct 23, 2013
"I'm sure BHO doesn't like Consumer Reports warning people NOT to buy into Obamacare." - RyggTard

But that isn't what Consumer Reports advised.

"Obamacare opponents have misrepresented Consumer Reports' position
HealthCare.gov problems do not negate benefits of new health law

Pundits opposed to the new health care law and some media outlets have tried to suggest that our coverage of the troubled HealthCare.gov site means that Consumer Reports has turned against the Affordable Care Act.

Not true."

http://consumerre...ndex.htm

Once again, RyggTard is caught telling another lie.

Why is it that Conservatives are perpetually caught telling lies?

Oct 23, 2013
"I've heard from many readers who say their health insurance premiums are going through the roof because of the new health law, and they're having their doubts about the "affordable" part of the Affordable Care Act.

But when they've given me enough information to look into their situation, in almost every case it turns out they're upset over nothing—because their health costs are not going up after all. They just haven't been able to find their way to the right information."

http://www.consum...ndex.htm

Oct 23, 2013
"Believed misleading info from insurance company. A California freelancer was irate that her insurance company was discontinuing her existing, zero-deductible plan and replacing it with a plan with a higher premium and much higher out-of-pocket costs. "It's sad the way this is working out for some moderate-income people," she said.

REALITY: I plugged her age, ZIP code, and income ($35,000) into the plan preview feature of Covered California, the state-run marketplace (which is up and running, by the way). Turns out that with her subsidy, she can buy a plan from the same carrier for $134 a month less than what she's paying now. The deductible is comparable to the replacement plan she was offered but the copays are similar to those of her current plan, and most of the services she's likely to need aren't subject to the deductible anyway, such as doctor visits, generic drugs, lab tests, and hospital care."

http://www.consum...ndex.htm

Oct 24, 2013
"A retired woman living on $20,400 in Social Security survivor's benefits said she was struggling to afford her $541 retiree health plan. She said the plans she's seen that are available through her state's Health Insurance Marketplace would be even more expensive, with worse coverage.

REALITY: At her income level, she'll not only be entitled to a hefty subsidy that will bring her premium down to about $90 a month, she'll also get a major reduction in her out-of-pocket costs."

http://www.consum...ndex.htm

Oct 24, 2013
"Why would any business move a factory into a different country?" - RyggTard

So they can make shit products that sell well in America due to low cost and pay their staff vastly lower wages.

It is a win, win situation because the products fail and Stupid Americans just by more shit as a replacement.

Corporations try to keep their customers as ignorant as possible when it comes to their product, weather it be a drill or a can of genetically modified corn.

That is why Food Producers have fought tooth and nail against nutritional and other nutritional information appearing on their product labels.

RyggTard is a wonderful example of how stupid American Consumers really are.

The Conservative ones actually demand that they not be allowed to know what it is they are consuming.

Keeping themselves ignorant is the Republican way.

Oct 24, 2013
"I've heard from many readers who say their health insurance premiums are going through the roof because of the new health law, and they're having their doubts about the "affordable" part of the Affordable Care Act.

But when they've given me enough information to look into their situation, in almost every case it turns out they're upset over nothing—because their health costs are not going up after all. They just haven't been able to find their way to the right information."

http://www.consum...ndex.htm

And for the few people whose premium do increase in almost ALL cases their coverage has doubled and their co-pays have dropped to zero for preventive care.

Oct 24, 2013
"In our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? "Well," he said, "I haven't been forced to do so, it's just that I've chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs." What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he'd call me back. He never did."

I have never encountered a Republican who wasn't a congenital and perpetual liar.

Oct 24, 2013
In reference to a study that claimed people who stay married are less likely to suffer from Alzheimer's, Kilmeade said that the results do not apply to the United States because:

"... we keep marrying other species and other ethnics. See, the problem is the Swedes have pure genes. Because they marry other Swedes .... Finns marry other Finns, so they have a pure society. In America we marry everybody, we marry Italians and Irish." - Brian Kilmeade - Fox News

Oct 24, 2013
Political cronies pass laws subsidizing corn and beet sugar prices in the USA. With artificially high sucrose prices, business seek alternatives and find high fructose corn syrup (hfc) is a cheaper substitute for sucrose in soda and other products. Non-govt research shows hfc may not be good for people and consumers begin to switch to products with cane sugar (sucrose). Jones Soda promotes it has no hfc as do many other products. Meanwhile, candy companies move out of the USA to Canada to be able to purchase sucrose at world market prices.
Some consumers don't want sugar and businesses market no caloria stevia sweetener (but for a while, it can't be called a sweetner, by federal law).
Pepsi starts selling retro products made with sucrose. Coke imports Coke made with sucrose from Mexico into Costco, Trader Joes, Whole foods and regular super markets.
Consumers and competition forced Pepsi and Coke to respond or loose market share. Will the US govt respond and end sucrose tariffs?

Oct 24, 2013
"These 16 million people are now receiving letters from their carriers saying they are losing their current coverage and must re-enroll in order to avoid a break in coverage and comply with the new health law's benefit mandates––the vast majority by January 1. Most of these will be seeing some pretty big rate increases.
"http://healthpoli...tml#more

Oct 24, 2013
Political cronies pass laws subsidizing corn and beet sugar prices in the USA. With artificially high sucrose prices, business seek alternatives and find high fructose corn syrup (hfc) is a cheaper substitute for sucrose in soda and other products. Non-govt research shows hfc may not be good for people and consumers begin to switch to products with cane sugar (sucrose). - - - "deleted to make room for myself below" - - - -
Consumers and competition forced Pepsi and Coke to respond or loose market share. Will the US govt respond and end sucrose tariffs?


I agree with Mayor Bloomberg but instead of limiting the size of drinks raw sugar should be taxed just like cigarettes to double the price.

Oct 24, 2013
"These 16 million people are now receiving letters from their carriers saying they are losing their current coverage and must re-enroll in order to avoid a break in coverage and comply with the new health law's benefit mandates––the vast majority by January 1. Most of these will be seeing some pretty big rate increases.
"http://healthpoli...tml#more

Rygg2' the KEY phrase in you post is "the new health law's mandates". The law mandates MUCH better coverage and requires that there be no co-pays for preventive medical services. It also doe NOT have lifetime caps of $100,000 or a $1,000,000 like most private corporation and unions.

In reality most people will be getting about double the coverage for about the same price. It's a bargain, don't let Fox propaganda tell you otherwise.


Oct 24, 2013
most people will be getting about double the coverage for about the same price

Prove it.
I have heard that insurance won't kick in on some policies until after $24,000 is paid by by the patient.
The law mandates MUCH better coverage

Really? IF you can find a doctor. IF you can afford the co-pay and deductables, ...
Socialized mandates NEVER lower costs. They only create rationing.

Oct 24, 2013
It's so great, no one is buying in ND:
"FARGO – The Obama administration asked North Dakota's largest health insurer not to publicize how many people have signed up for health insurance through a new online exchange, a company official says. "
http://www.inforu.../416090/

Oct 24, 2013
most people will be getting about double the coverage for about the same price

Prove it.
I have heard that insurance won't kick in on some policies until after $24,000 is paid by by the patient.
The law mandates MUCH better coverage

Really? IF you can find a doctor. IF you can afford the co-pay and deductables, ...
Socialized mandates NEVER lower costs. They only create rationing.

I think VendicarE has already proved that with several of his posting.
Your $24,000 kick in price is PURE fantasy. Why don't you PROVE that figure?

Use your head for something besides a hat rack. Why would you think some of these companies complain about steep price increase in their health insurance premiums?
It really is simple, "the require mandated coverage" has increase. They were the one's offering nearly worthless health insurance coverage before.


Oct 24, 2013
Quote Rygg2: "Really? IF you can find a doctor. IF you can afford the co-pay and deductables, .
Socialized mandates NEVER lower costs. They only create rationing.

What a laugh, HA HA HA! So that is why medical care takes about 10% of the total GDP in countries with national health insurance as oppose 17% in the US.

As I mentioned before co-pays for preventive medical care are $0 under Obamacare. Now it is true one can buy health insurance that has larger co-pays for other medical services if one chooses. This give people more choices than most employer plans.

Oct 24, 2013
"While American companies solved these problems in the previous century, pint-sized California Rep. Henry Waxman blames an unspecified "private sector" for the failure of the Obama administration's exchange. The compact Democrat argued strongly Tuesday that Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius should not resign in shame over the HealthCare.gov fiasco because, in his view, the site's contractor was to blame."
"While American companies solved these problems in the previous century, pint-sized California Rep. Henry Waxman blames an unspecified "private sector" for the failure of the Obama administration's exchange. The compact Democrat argued strongly Tuesday that Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius should not resign in shame over the HealthCare.gov fiasco because, in his view, the site's contractor was to blame.

Read more: http://dailycalle...ieEXMLgp

Oct 24, 2013
IRyggy is continually caught telling outright lies - and then with total disregard for the truth - or for any level of integrity - continues with the verbal diarrhea - and trying to look like he/she is a credible participant in a discussion.
All it does is copy a few keywords from your post into it's libertarian search engine, and spew back the top item verbatim. It's a libertarian spam machine

Oct 24, 2013
Kochevnik, Rygg/Marjon isn't a libertarian however much he tries to let on that he is. His breed goes way beyond that. He's a right-wing corporate anarchist. He even wants the right to print his own currency, whose value would equal the cost to print it.

Oct 24, 2013
"I have heard that insurance won't kick in on some policies until after $24,000 is paid by by the patient." - RyggTard

I've heard that there are gelatinous invisible aliens on Mars having sex and smoking martian cigarettes afterward, and that the photographs of such were accidentally released by NASA.

It's probably heard it from the same source as yours.

Faux News perhaps?


Oct 24, 2013
"Socialized mandates NEVER lower costs." - RyggTard

Then why are the socialized medical systems outside the U.S. vastly less expensive that the current American system?


Oct 24, 2013
"He's a right-wing corporate anarchist. He even wants the right to print his own currency, whose value would equal the cost to print it." - Gawad

No, that is a Libertarian position.

Idaho Republican Platform: GOP Calls For Returning Gold Standard, Ending Direct Election Of Senators

The platform specifically calls for power to issue currency be "returned to the people" and that the dollar should be backed by gold or silver.

The state party also called for repealing the 17th amendment of the Constitution, which allows for the direct election of U.S. senators.

http://www.huffin...088.html

Oct 24, 2013
RyggTard got his bogus 24,000 deductible figure from a nameless caller on the Rush Limbaugh show a week ago who knows this guy who had a deductible quoted to he of that size.

CALLER: Yeah, and when he said that, I said, "$24,000?" and he said, "Yes," and then he said, "Did you ever think that anything like this would ever happen in America, that any of us would feel the way we are feeling?"

RUSH: Well, here's the thing: Yes. The moment Obama was elected I did.

You know, if an unnamed caller on the Rush Limbaugh hatefest radio show says it's so, it must be true.

Oh, wait... Isn't it the opposite?

Yes... yes it is....


Oct 24, 2013
"Socialized mandates NEVER lower costs." - RyggTard

Then why are the socialized medical systems outside the U.S. vastly less expensive that the current American system?


In fairness, one reason is that it does result in rationing. Rationing is one way that states such as Canada keep cost lower than in the States. But the truth is that such arguments are also a red herring, because you will ALWAYS HAVE SOME FORM OF RATIONING. In the States they still get rationed, but the rationing is performed by the private insurers, or doctors in public hospital. The fact is that any society will bankrupt itself if it decides that it is willing to spend ANY effort to let its citizens live just a little bit longer. As health care spending approaches 100% of economic output, well, you can see where this is going.

So its NEVER a question of whether rationing happens or not, it always does, its a question of how much and by whom.

Oct 24, 2013
"It's so great, no one is buying in ND:" - RyggTard

They know that they have lots of time, should they need to enroll at all.

Poor Ryggie, looking for love in all the wrong places.


Oct 24, 2013
"Amid the predictable collapse the past week of HealthCare.gov's too-complex technology, not enough notice was given to Sen. Marco Rubio's statement that the chances for success on immigration reform are about dead. Why? Because, said Sen. Rubio, there is "a lack of trust" in the president's commitments."
"When belief in the average politician's word diminishes, the political world marks him down and moves away. With the president of the United States, especially one in his second term, the costs of the credibility markdown become immeasurably greater. Ask the Saudis.

Last weekend the diplomatic world was agog at the refusal of Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah to accept a seat on the U.N. Security Council. Global disbelief gave way fast to clear understanding: The Saudis have decided that the United States is no longer a reliable partner in Middle Eastern affairs"
http://online.wsj...61445984

Oct 24, 2013
"Political cronies pass laws subsidizing corn and beet sugar prices in the USA. With artificially high sucrose prices" - RyggTard

Now RyggTard is whining about the Cuban Sugar embargo, which is strongly supported by his own Republican Party.

He is just too stupid to realize it.

Oct 24, 2013
" Mr. Obama's partners are concluding that they cannot do business with him. They don't trust him. Whether it's the Saudis, the Syrian rebels, the French, the Iraqis, the unpivoted Asians or the congressional Republicans, they've all had their fill of coming up on the short end with so mercurial a U.S. president. And when that happens, the world's important business doesn't get done. It sits in a dangerous and volatile vacuum.

The next major political event in Washington is the negotiation over spending, entitlements and taxes between House budget chairman Paul Ryan and his Senate partner, Patty Murray. The bad air over this effort is the same as that Marco Rubio says is choking immigration reform: the fear that Mr. Obama will urge the process forward in public and then blow up any Ryan-Murray agreement at the 11th hour with deal-killing demands for greater tax revenue. "
http://online.wsj...61445984

Oct 24, 2013
What would NASA do with $1 billion?
""In looking at the full range of ACA-related contracts for just 10 firms, the BGOV analysis found more than $1 billion worth of contract awards," he wrote."
"Representatives from CGI Federal, the company that was primarily responsible for developing the HealthCare.Gov website, are among those giving testimony. The Gosselin analysis found that $149.9 million, or 35 percent, of the $421.8 million in federal contracts the company received came in the final six months of the project."

Read more: http://thehill.co...iedHDI1z
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook
CGI Federal is a Canadian company.

Oct 24, 2013
"The Saudis have decided that the United States is no longer a reliable partner in Middle Eastern affairs" - RyggTard

America acts exclusively in it's own self interest, and hence has never been a reliable ally to anyone.

Tea-Publicans have recently shown that they intend to increase that unreliability through their attempt to push America into a long Economic Depression by attempting to force government to default on it's debt payments.


Oct 24, 2013
"He's a right-wing corporate anarchist. He even wants the right to print his own currency, whose value would equal the cost to print it." - Gawad

No, that is a Libertarian position.


Well, it certainly falls under the Libertarian umbrella, but it's a pretty wide umbrella. Even Noam Chomsky is considered libertarian in many circles, though in the socialist quadrant, and pretty much an opposite of Ryggy if I've ever seen one. The point is that I've dealt with lots of Libertarians who believe the state has an important role to play (granted, most were NOT American Libertarians), but Rygg clearly belongs to a Libertarian faction that is extreme even by the standards of "conventional Libertarian thinking". It does seem though that his brand of politics is becoming, ah...increasingly vocal south of the 49th.

Oct 24, 2013
RyggTard is right. The failure of the businesses producing the health care websites are just another example of Corporate Failure.

Meet CGI Federal, the company behind the botched launch of HealthCare.gov

http://www.washin...are-gov/

Oct 24, 2013
Rygg clearly belongs to a Libertarian faction that is extreme even by the standards of "conventional Libertarian thinking".

Under the skin of every Libertarian there is a parasite like RyggTard trying to get out.

Oct 24, 2013
Obamacare a dream for many single moms working part time

http://phys.org/n...oms.html

Oct 24, 2013
You know, one of the things that often makes these big launch projects difficult is that initial volume is 10 to 100 times the maintenance volume a client will see six months down the line, but a client will not invest in procuring 10x the switches and bandwidth and servers needed to handle launch volume...understandably. So they're essentially left with one tenth to one hundredth of the capacity needed to handle the launch...even though they've been told...repeatedly. And when mitigating solutions are proposed, such as a staggered launch (say...5 states a week, of example, in this case), those are rejected for political (or other) reasons....just sayin'.

Oct 24, 2013
"Hidden in ObamaCare Site: Applicants Surrender Right to Privacy"
"The American people have been repeatedly assured that the website is HIPAA compliant; covered under the strictest of privacy regulations regarding medical and personal information.

But like absolutely everything else involving ObamaCare, our expectation of privacy was a lie -- just like when Obama told us ObamaCare would decrease our premiums and that no one would lose their current insurance plans or their doctor.
The fact that the government is hiding the fact that you are giving up your right to privacy should be a major media scandal. But it won't be. "
http://www.breitb...-Privacy

Oct 24, 2013
"Amid the predictable collapse the past week of HealthCare.gov's too-complex technology, not enough notice was given to Sen. Marco Rubio's statement that the chances for success on immigration reform are about dead. Why? Because, said Sen. Rubio, there is "a lack of trust" in the president's commitments."
- - -omitted - - - -
Last weekend the diplomatic world was agog at the refusal of Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah to accept a seat on the U.N. Security Council. Global disbelief gave way fast to clear understanding: The Saudis have decided that the United States is no longer a reliable partner in Middle Eastern affairs"
http://online.wsj...61445984

So, who needs them now that we are producing so much natural gas and oil.

Oct 24, 2013
And all the natural gas and oil is being produced on private property.
BHO has banned oil and gas production and exploration on "the peoples' land".
Did you get a vote on that? I didn't.

Oct 24, 2013
And all the natural gas and oil is being produced on private property.
BHO has banned oil and gas production and exploration on "the peoples' land".
Did you get a vote on that? I didn't.
So sad. I didn't get a vote either because I'm not American. Don't you think BHO is holding back the organ harvesting market, ryggie? That poor libertarian paradise Somalian girl just wanted to come to the UK for a better life and to sell all her vital internal organs. But the mean government stopped her human trafficking friends!

Oct 24, 2013
P2 believes in democracy and all the land should belong to 'the people'.
BHO unilaterally ordered all oil and gas exploration to stop the 'peoples land', but what people did he ask?

Oct 24, 2013
"CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield is being forced to cancel plans that currently cover 76,000 individuals in Virginia, Maryland, and Washington, D.C., due to changes made by President Obama's health care law, the company told the Washington Examiner today.

That represents more than 40 percent of the 177,000 individuals covered by CareFirst in those states.

Though Obama famously promised that those who liked their health care coverage could keep it under his program,"
http://washington.../2537782
"three weeks ago Obamacare was unquestioned "settled" law (despite the fact that the president himself unsettled the law by suspending the employer mandate) that only dead-ender "anarchists" and "hostage takers" wished to stop or amend."
http://www.nation...s-hanson

Oct 24, 2013
"CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield is being forced to cancel plans that currently cover 76,000 individuals in Virginia, Maryland, and Washington, D.C., due to changes made by President Obama's health care law, the company told the Washington Examiner today.

That represents more than 40 percent of the 177,000 individuals covered by CareFirst in those states.

Though Obama famously promised that those who liked their health care coverage could keep it under his program,"
http://washington.../2537782

Obama is right, Obama care did not force the people off their health care policies BlueCross did.
As for Obama granting waivers, that is one I wish he hadn't done BUT if he hadn't many more companies would have dropped health care cover for their workers. In nearly every case because the coverage they offer was nearly non existence, in short it STUNK. Continued - -