US soldier arrested in WikiLeaks case

Jun 07, 2010
This frame grab image from classified US military gun camera footage released by Wikileaks.org in April 2010 shows an Apache helicopter attack on pedestrians including a Reuters photographer in Baghdad in 2007. A US Army intelligence analyst has been arrested in connection with the leak of classified US military combat video to whistleblower site Wikileaks, Wired.com reported.

A US soldier in Iraq has been arrested for allegedly leaking classified information to whistleblower website WikiLeaks, including video of a helicopter strike in Baghdad and US diplomatic cables.

Specialist Bradley Manning, 22, who was deployed at a base near Baghdad, is in "pre-trial confinement for allegedly releasing classified information and is currently confined in Kuwait," US Forces Iraq said in a statement.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said investigators were probing allegations that Manning supplied classified video and 260,000 secret diplomatic cables to WikiLeaks, as first reported by Wired.com, the website of technology magazine Wired.

"I think that's why the Criminal Investigative Division is taking a very scrupulous look at this," Whitman told reporters here.

Wired.com said Manning, of Potomac, Maryland, was arrested nearly two weeks ago by the US Army's Criminal Investigation Division at Forward Operating Base Hammer, 40 miles (64 kilometers) east of Baghdad.

Manning, who was serving with the 2nd Brigade 10th Mountain Division, was turned in late last month after boasting to a former computer hacker in an online conversation that he had leaked video of a 2007 US military helicopter strike to WikiLeaks, Wired said.

WikiLeaks released video in April of the Apache helicopter attack in Baghdad which killed two employees of the Reuters news agency and a number of other people.

WikiLeaks said at the time that it had obtained the video "from a number of military whistleblowers" but did not provide any further information about how it got ahold of the footage, which it posted at Wikileaks.org and on YouTube.

Manning reportedly said he had leaked other material to WikiLeaks, including separate video of a 2009 air strike in Afghanistan, a classified Army document evaluating Wikileaks as a security threat and classified US diplomatic cables.

"Hillary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning, and find an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format, to the public," Wired quoted Manning as writing.

Wired said it could not confirm WikiLeaks had received the classified cables. It said a single diplomatic cable appeared on the site in February concerning a meeting between the US embassy and the government of Iceland.

WikiLeaks said in a message on its Twitter feed that "allegations in Wired that we have been sent 260,000 classified US embassy cables are, as far as we can tell, incorrect."

Spokesman Philip Crowley said the State Department would take a leak of classified documents "seriously."

"It has particular impact in terms of revealing what we call sources and methods, compromising our ability to provide government leaders with the kind of analysis that they need to make informed decisions," Crowley said.

WikiLeaks said that "if" Manning is the "whistleblower then, without doubt, he's a national hero."

Wired said Manning had been in touch with former hacker Adrian Lamo, who contacted Army investigators and FBI agents after being told of the leaks.

"I wouldn't have done this if lives weren't in danger," Lamo told Wired about turning Manning in to the authorities.

"He was in a war zone and basically trying to vacuum up as much classified information as he could, and just throwing it up into the air," Lamo said.

WikiLeaks, run by Sunshine Press, describes itself as a "non-profit organization funded by human rights campaigners, investigative journalists, technologists and the general public."

Explore further: UK: Former reporter sentenced for phone hacking

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User comments : 79

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Shootist
2.7 / 5 (13) Jun 07, 2010
I wonder if they still put traitors in Leavenworth?
otto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Jun 07, 2010
Arkaleus
3.5 / 5 (22) Jun 07, 2010
This "leak" shows an atrocity being committed by the occupying forces in Iraq. In it is the vivid record of innocent human lives being destroyed by a trigger happy Apache jock who unfortunately was a great shot.

How this information is vital to national security and foreign policy is the sort of reasoning found only in Alice in Wonderland. What this information does is show the nature of this "war" in truth.

The video was leaked because a soldier dared to have his own mind and somehow connected that mind to his conscience, resulting in an act of moral fortitude. This act of independent integrity obviously is a threat to the ruling regime behind the occupation of Iraq, and will not go unpunished.

Taking cues from their NAZI predecessors, any information that reveals the true nature of the war being waged against an innocent population will be suppressed, but thank God for the Internet and the bravery of American soldiers who dare to confront this injustice.

Traitor? No.
frajo
3.8 / 5 (17) Jun 07, 2010
Traitor? No.
A war hero.
ozzie
5 / 5 (16) Jun 07, 2010
No government is higher than the truth...
patnclaire
1.9 / 5 (22) Jun 07, 2010
ozzie, frajo, arkaleus your comments are arrogant, elitists, hypocritical and intollerant.
How so, you say?
If this leak were about Acorn or Obama then you would be for hanging the jerk from the nearest light pole.
You will never be fair and balanced but you can refrain from hypocracy with comments like yours.
ozzie
4.3 / 5 (12) Jun 07, 2010
patnclaire I don't condone violence, however I condone those who embrace their use of having the capacity to speak the truth or in this case show it and embrace their conscience. I feel this is an unjust war we have gotten ourselves stuck in, why should those that speak the truths of their observations be imprisoned? That, I feel is unfair and unbalanced.
Roj
4.3 / 5 (7) Jun 07, 2010
Specialist Bradley Manning's actions will certainly result in military countermeasures to prevent others from following in his footsteps.

Bragging about security leaks endangers one self, perhaps others, and begs the question of a reckless and self-destructive motive.
otto1923
2.8 / 5 (13) Jun 07, 2010
This "leak" shows an atrocity being committed by the occupying forces in Iraq. In it is the vivid record of innocent human lives being destroyed by a trigger happy Apache jock who unfortunately was a great shot.
An honest mistake. At least one of those gentlemen was carrying a real AK-47 and they had no business being where they were. Seasoned pro reporters wouldve known this; or they were set up.

The banter you all object to is equivalent to watching sausage being made. Its uncomfortable perhaps but typical among combatants ON BOTH SIDES who in this case were reacting to people who they thought were there to kill friendlies. It has no bearing on their judgement in the incident or their degree of empathy for their victims.

This enemy DOES use family members as human shields; their dogma tells them that all are obligated to serve and sacrifice in the Cause. In Vietnam they used children to deliver grenades to the enemy.
otto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Jun 07, 2010
Frajo, youre NAIVE to think this war doesnt need to be fought and this enemy defeated. Consider the relative humanity of this enemy the next time they set an explosive off in a subway or massacre people in a mosque. Consider how you will feel if some day soon you are forced to wear a niqab.
IDMclean
4 / 5 (8) Jun 07, 2010
Homicidal intent for any reason is suicidal ideation projected onto others. Soldiers in engaging in violence expose themselves to self-destructive habits. The job description of a soldier then is entirely unwholesome as it necessitates engagement in wrong livelihood and the proliferation of suffering.

Manning's dissemination of documents revealing the acts of affliction are commendable while the acts themselves are heinous by any objective measure.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Thanks to Manning, we get to see.
otto1923
2.8 / 5 (9) Jun 07, 2010
the bravery of American soldiers who dare to confront this injustice.
This was a MISTAKE and quite possibly a setup. Do not be a Dupe.

The world is being prepared for another substantial war- because it is Inevitable- and the events we've seen in recent weeks are meant to polarize and inflame in preparation for it. Public opinion is being sculpted. Good guys and bad guys are being Defined. Politics are shifting. Israel is being isolated and vilified to further Galvanize millions of hapless young hotheads to once again throw themselves upon the wire.

You wanna be really clever? Then I repeat: Dont be a DUPE.
Soldiers in engaging in violence expose themselves to self-destructive habits.
Thats their JOB pinhead. Because if they didnt engage in it the enemy would engage in it all over YOUR ass.
frajo
3 / 5 (2) Jun 08, 2010
Too bad...
http://en.wikiped...uartered
I always knew what's driving you.
Coldstatic
3.6 / 5 (9) Jun 08, 2010
i agree with otto.... if you watched the video its fairly clear this was an accident... its unfortunate but this is what happens when you walk around a warzone with a shoulder mounted camera.
Foundation
5 / 5 (3) Jun 08, 2010
Regardless of the morality of the case, this is the best publication they could possibly give. I've never heard of any of these particular leaks until now. References to them start popping up everywhere.
antialias
3.8 / 5 (5) Jun 08, 2010
The banter you all object to is equivalent to watching sausage being made. Its uncomfortable perhaps but typical among combatants ON BOTH SIDES

And this excuses those actions depicted exactly how?
Frajo, youre NAIVE to think this war doesnt need to be fought and this enemy defeated.

But since wars (war on terror, war on drugs, wars on insurgents, ... ) historically don't end in defeat it is you who are naive.

The world is being prepared for another substantial war- because it is Inevitable-

If it were inevitable then the preparation would not be needed. War is in the interest of certain people (who, to a man and woman will never be involved in any fighting)

No right thinking human wants war and therefore none should ever happen. But we have people who are not right thinking (greedy) and others who are not right thinking in their job choice (soldiers)

Mesafina
2.5 / 5 (4) Jun 08, 2010
Otto you fool! You don't actually know if it was an accident. Apparently you are full of it, with your prophetic qualities and ability to instantly know the intention of others. Great job!
otto1923
3.7 / 5 (6) Jun 08, 2010
Otto you fool!  You don't actually know if it was an accident.  Apparently you are full of it
Ive been studying these things for awhile, and spent a few hours yesterday researching this specific incident including watching the entire video and other related videos. Und Du?

Those people got themselves killed either from stupidity or gullibility, and the videos were purposely leaked as part of the leadup to more Planned Wars.

"(Ahmadinijad) added, "Maybe at the Security Council, it will impact temporarily. The Zionist regime, with what it has done, it actually stopped its possibility to exist in the region anymore."
"The Gaza siege is unsustainable." -Barak Obama
-Of course it is. They have one of the highest religionist-mandated growth rates in the world. The MAJORITY of the inhabitants are under age 15. Their economy is wholly artificial, their population supported by aid from nations preparing them for War.
otto1923
3 / 5 (2) Jun 08, 2010
Every State in the region has the same Problem with explosive overgrowth, and War is their only solution. This is why the garrison state of Israel was established to begin with. An elaborate game of chess with real Knights and Pawns, designed to end the last of the great religions of World Conquest.

Frajo lives at eurodisney and is too idealistic to recognize sarcasm. Too bad eurodisney has no real Enemies to clear up her vision. Reminds me of the US isolationists before ww2. Or the teetotalers and suffragettes before them. Or the abolitionists before them, et cetera ad infinitum. Their tendency toward Dogmatism makes them very Useful.

"No matter what the public sentiment, it can be quickly and thoroughly changed by Events of sufficient Magnitude." -Otto himself said this.
otto1923
3.4 / 5 (5) Jun 08, 2010
Otto you fool! You don't actually know if it was an accident. Apparently you are full of it, with your prophetic qualities and ability to instantly know the intention of others. Great job!
Just in case you are as dense as you seem, consider this: wouldnt a seasoned reporter and cameraman who wanted to take pictures of military facilities in a WAR ZONE under constant surveillance, and who would be carrying equipment which resembled weapons, want to get clearance from the military having jurisdiction in the area? And wouldnt they be wearing clothing with the word 'PRESS' emblasoned on the back? And how it is especially dangerous to travel in broad daylight with indigenes carrying real weapons?

Every frontline reporter is thoroughly briefed, and learns very quickly, how not to get himself shot.
croghan27
3 / 5 (4) Jun 08, 2010
Hope there is some fund set up so I can contribute to the defence of this brave man.

He is like Mordicai Vanunu - endangering his future to reveal the (government denied) truth.
Mesafina
4 / 5 (4) Jun 08, 2010
Otto, you still haven't answered how you know this is an accident, which is one of the key points in your claim that leaking this video was a bad thing. While it could be an accident, and I know these things happen in wars, that doesn't change the fact that you don't actually know at all what the intentions of the soldiers involved were, or what information they knew or did not. It is important that there be people who are willing to leak information like this from inside human organizations to the public at large. Secrecy ultimately is only good for the individual with something to hide. On something as important as war or national politics, it is important that the public who ultimately votes for our elected officials be as well informed about the realities of war.
otto1923
3.4 / 5 (5) Jun 08, 2010
Otto, you still haven't answered how you know this is an accident, which is one of the key points in your claim that leaking this video was a bad thing.
What makes you think I was saying I KNEW and was not just implying it? Very little knowledge in these threads, mostly just opinion. Mine is Informed.

One can infer, from the evidence available from this and related incidents, the high probability that they happened for the reasons I stated.
it is important that the public who ultimately votes for our elected officials be as well informed about the realities of war.
Oy, you ARE a Dupe. Lets let all our Enemies know exactly how to defeat our security systems and steal our defense technology. We can hide in the churches like the romans did as the xian Visigoths sacked their city.
http://en.wikiped..._of_Rome
otto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 08, 2010
the key points in your claim that leaking this video was a bad thing.
What makes you think I think it is a 'bad thing'? If the intent was to compel the enemy to stand, fight, and be annihilated rather than run, then these incidents can be considered very successful.

"In Monday's violence, seven American, one French and two Australian soldiers were killed in separate attacks in the south and east of the country. It was the deadliest day so far this year for international forces in Afghanistan.

"Taliban militants have increased their attacks as NATO prepares for a major operation to drive the group from their stronghold in southern Kandahar province."

-You wouldnt want to plan an offensive and then have nobody show up to fight, would you? This was the real reason Jane Fonda went to Hanoi right before the Tet offensive. She did more to bring about the destruction of the viet cong than -anyone else?- by convincing them they had a chance. They died in great piles.
Caliban
3 / 5 (4) Jun 08, 2010
No good deed goes unpunished.

While I'm not happy to have to do so, I would affirm that Otto's assessment of the situation is probably very close to the bone, indeed.

I would also add that this instance wasn't "innocent", but is the LEAST heinous of the many atrocities occurring in "the War on Terror".
It's too bad that Manning felt the need to boast for having done something necessary and courageous, but I expect he'll soon suffer the consequences.

Unfortunately, the game will end there, and it will probably be quite some time before anyone is brave enough to try to hold the feet of the DOD to the fire again, and I would suggest that EVERYONE loses therefrom. More innocent civilians will die, the war will be prosecuted with less focus, and US service personnel will not be held to as high a standard of good judgement and conduct as we should all be able to expect, which will only lead to deeper and more long-lasting Militaty/Industrial/(TAXPAYER) involvement in the region.
Caliban
3 / 5 (2) Jun 08, 2010
At the same time, I also commend the efforts of WikiLeaks- we get precious little of real news or insight into how goes the war from the MSM(how I hate that term-but it is apt), and there is, by and large, no one to call bullshit against any of the excess being committed in the name of Democracy, so I suppose the job fell to WikiLeaks by default.

What surprises me most is how long it took for the American Consciousness Radar to register this- the footage has been up on Wikileaks for a couple of months already.

No doubt they will begin having difficulties of their own in the near term, as a result of having tread on the most sensitive interests of our Masters in providing this little expose.

Good luck to them- lots of interesting info on their site- it would be a real shame for them to be taken down.
otto1923
3.4 / 5 (5) Jun 08, 2010
Keep in mind that the hacker who turned this working class hero in, and who talked to him personally and thus knew the situation much better, outed him because he was concerned that lives were being put in jeopardy by a sworn officer in the US military. Coalition lives.

Civilian whistleblowers are one thing, but sharing classified info (1000s of documents) with the world and the enemy, during a war, is quite another when the perp is military. I hope he fries.
Caliban
2 / 5 (4) Jun 08, 2010
Oh, he'll fry, all right.

These other 1000s of documents are yet to surface- according to WikiLeaks. Maybe the DoD is mounting a smear campaign(pun intended), to make his offense seem egregious?
croghan27
4 / 5 (4) Jun 09, 2010
I still would like to contribute to some kind of fund for Manning's defence.

Bush and Obama are (were) busy trashing the constitution - this lad releases a video of some violence that at least can be called counterproductive. Who's crime is the worst?
Skeptic_Heretic
3.7 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
Civilian whistleblowers are one thing, but sharing classified info (1000s of documents) with the world and the enemy, during a war, is quite another when the perp is military. I hope he fries.

Which enemy? The one in the video or the one on the news?

Although I don't disagree that leaking classified documents is a bad thing, in this one incident (speaking only to the footage) not releasing it would be a greater crime against the whole of humanity.

I cannot speak to anything else this soldier has leaked or what the exact situation entails.
antialias
5 / 5 (5) Jun 09, 2010
not releasing it would be a greater crime against the whole of humanity.


Good point. There are greater things than an oath to an office (e.g. remaining human).

It is important that people know what is going on - especially if they are told that the US forces somehow are supposed to be 'morally superior' to their enemies.

Lies need to be exposed.
otto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
More evidence of anti-israel PR by Reuters:
Published 01:12 08.06.10;
"Reuters under fire for removing weapons, blood from images of Gaza flotilla
News agency rejects charges of biased coverage, says it reverted to use of 'original set' of images once cropping discovered."(After Public opinion was formed)
Published 16:51 09.06.10;
"Probe: Erdogan knew Gaza flotilla would be violent
Probe by private body of Israel's intelligence officials finds that some 'Mavi Marmara' activists were part of an organized group that was prepared for a violent conflict." -Haaretz
Published 16:51 09.06.10;
"Probe: Erdogan knew Gaza flotilla would be violent-
Probe by private body of Israel's intelligence officials finds that some 'Mavi Marmara' activists were part of an organized group that was prepared for a violent conflict." -Haaretz

-In order to elicit the most benefit from engineered conflict, the proper emotions must be generated in combatants of either side.
antialias
5 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
Probe by private body of Israel's intelligence officials finds....


Oh wow..now that MUST be an impartial and accurate report.
otto1923
2 / 5 (4) Jun 09, 2010
Link for the above:
http://www.haaret...1.295144
{q]this one incident (speaking only to the footage) not releasing it would be a greater crime against the whole of humanity. You admit you know very little about this incident and yet you conclude that it was a crime against humanity? Were these people in fact enemy combatants escorting hapless Reuters reporters? Were they themselves scouting an attack? Was this a restricted area? Had the US military been notified of an enemy patrol in the vicinity? Any of these things could be true. One of these people was armed, for real, and troops were taking fire from the vicinity earlier.
http://www.youtub...rified=1
-I submit that misrepresenting this incident as has been done in the media is a greater potential crime against humanity.
otto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
Probe by private body of Israel's intelligence officials finds....


Oh wow..now that MUST be an impartial and accurate report.
-And just by those few words you conclude it isnt? Did you even read the whole story? You realize how gullible you are? This propaganda is meant specifically for dupes like yourself.
Lies need to be exposed.
Please tell me specifically what lies youre referring to... dupe.
antialias
5 / 5 (1) Jun 09, 2010
sorry wrong thread
Skeptic_Heretic
3.7 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
You admit you know very little about this incident and yet you conclude that it was a crime against humanity?
No Otto, I didn't say that. I know little about the conditions of the data OTHER than this video piece. As such I aimed my commentary directly at the video alone.
Were these people in fact enemy combatants escorting hapless Reuters reporters?
No that is obvious from the video and subsequent identification of all pictured in the piece.
Were they themselves scouting an attack? Was this a restricted area? Had the US military been notified of an enemy patrol in the vicinity? Any of these things could be true. One of these people was armed, for real, and troops were taking fire from the vicinity earlier.
None of these people were armed, I suggest that you do some more reading and give the video another watch.
otto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
And with just a little research:
http://www.grouch...=13586.0
http://mypetjawa....1889.php
Personally, I suspect that the object in the one video is a tripod. But troops on-scene in the original video report a weapon recovered, and I have read this from other sources.

This is not Mjr Calley at My Lai, although thats what most people want to see. This is people in an active area of engagement who should know full well that their actions could get them killed.
No that is obvious from the video
SH, again, they LOOKED like armed combatants in an area where the enemy was seen, where hostile fire had originated from. They look EXACTLY like what those troops engage in similar actions every day.

You could keep on embarrassing yourself or we could wait for the official report that would prove me right, which you would probably discount anyway.
otto1923
2.3 / 5 (6) Jun 09, 2010
No that is obvious from the video and subsequent identification of all pictured in the piece.
You call the troll lazy but you really ought to post some sources some of the time, yes?
I know little about the conditions of the data OTHER than this video piece. As such I aimed my commentary directly at the video alone.
And to me and many others this looks like a bunch of soldiers doing their jobs. Why does it look like something different to you? Because al jazeera and CNN tell you it is?
Skeptic_Heretic
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
Personally, I suspect that the object in the one video is a tripod. But troops on-scene in the original video report a weapon recovered, and I have read this from other sources.
Dude, it's afghanistan. I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T find an AK47.

This is not Mjr Calley at My Lai, although thats what most people want to see. This is people in an active area of engagement who should know full well that their actions could get them killed.

I completely agree. It is an active combat zone, however, Command should not have issued a fire order contrary to the rules of engagement. There was NO ground confirmation of sighting, this is a violation. I don't fault the pilots, I fault command.

SH, again, they LOOKED like armed combatants in an area where the enemy was seen, where hostile fire had originated from.

Right, and actions, as depicted in the video, are part of the reaosn why fundamentalist islam grows daily in the region. I think you have my stance wrong
Skeptic_Heretic
3 / 5 (2) Jun 09, 2010
And to me and many others this looks like a bunch of soldiers doing their jobs. Why does it look like something different to you? Because al jazeera and CNN tell you it is?
Yes, you certainly have my stance wrong.

Unlike the morons at CNN, who use any excuse possible to blunt the teeth of the American military, I have combat zone experience and formal military training. I don't fault the soldiers. I fault the command structure for not adhering to the rules of engagement. This video is a flat depiction of what happens when command breaks down. That is where my disagreement stems from, and that is why I see this as a travesty. IT WAS PREVENTABLE.

Just as you're aware, I'm also aware that war kills people, including people who aren't fighting the war. This video shows the ineptitude of the American military chain of command due to continuous behind the scenes manipulation by non-trained and non-combat persons. The fact this video was covered up further evidences that point
otto1923
3 / 5 (4) Jun 09, 2010
There was NO ground confirmation of sighting, this is a violation.
My understanding was that it was initiated by ground troops who had come under fire in the area.
not releasing it would be a greater crime against the whole of humanity.
Was your stance. I dont think the evidence supports this conclusion.
"It is believed two or three of these men may have been carrying weapons, although witnesses said none were assuming a hostile posture.

"The U.S. military said the helicopter attack, in which nine other people were killed, occurred after security forces came under fire."
http://www.reuter...05399965
-Apparently this issue has already been resolved by US military, although I havent yet found a report.
otto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jun 09, 2010
This video shows the ineptitude of the American military chain of command due to continuous behind the scenes manipulation by non-trained and non-combat persons.
Callous, unwarranted conjecture on your part with absolutely no justification.

"Indeed, Kim noted that a recent Pentagon probe into the killing of another Reuters journalist by U.S. troops in Baghdad in 2005 identified a "serious inconsistency" between media safety practices and the expectations of U.S. forces in Iraq.

"That report, by the Defense Department's inspector general, the Pentagon's watchdog agency, predicted additional shootings were "likely to reoccur" unless the situation was resolved."

-Sounds to me that, by Reuters own admission from the link above, THEY failed to revise their own safety procedures in a combat zone, and this incident was the result. Blame incompetence on Reuters part which presented a unique opportunity to vilify US forces who were most likely undeserving.
otto1923
2 / 5 (4) Jun 09, 2010
Dude, it's afghanistan. I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T find an AK47.
So you shouldnt be surprised that they all died because of it.

"It is believed two or three of these men may have been carrying weapons, although witnesses said none were assuming a hostile posture." -Youll note in the full video I posted above, that the one gentleman was kneeling and training an object around the corner of a building which is clearly what can be considered a 'hostile posture'. This was about the time the decision was made to fire.

It also appears in this video or one of the others that the black van with the children in it was being tracked before the shooting as a hostile target- see the initial long-range shot of the mosque. This was apparently not just an innocent good samaritan.
Skeptic_Heretic
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
Was your stance. I dont think the evidence supports this conclusion.
"It is believed two or three of these men may have been carrying weapons, although witnesses said none were assuming a hostile posture.

Key word "believed". We may have an opposing stance on the circumstances of the situation, however, my statement is NOT conjecture. There were NO EYES ON THE GROUND at the time. The statements as so far are "the men matched descriptions of men who were attacking us earlier.

In a land full of arabic men, I'm sure the description of "Arabic Men" only matches that group of individuals.....
otto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 09, 2010
There were NO EYES ON THE GROUND at the time.
Like I say, I think there were. Why do you think they were necessary anyway? US soldiers need to approach people carrying RPGs and ask them if theyre bad guys or not?
I'm sure the description of "Arabic Men" only matches that group of individuals.....
Youre also implying that the incidents happened because US forces are bigots which I also find offensive.

"It is believed two or three of these men may have been carrying weapons, although witnesses said none were assuming a hostile posture." -Again, by Reuters own admission, which is why and only why these 'arabs' got shot.
otto1923
1 / 5 (4) Jun 09, 2010
Why dont you research this and tell me what you find:
http://wikileaks....for_Iraq
otto1923
2 / 5 (4) Jun 10, 2010
Which enemy? The one in the video or the one on the news?
"On Wednesday, the Taliban hanged a 7-year-old boy in public in Helmand province, neighboring Kandahar, for alleged spying, a local official said. Also Wednesday, insurgents dragged a Kandahar provincial council member, Amir Mohammad Noorzai, from his house and fatally shot him, said local government spokesman Zalmai Ayoubi"

-THIS enemy.
Skeptic_Heretic
3 / 5 (2) Jun 10, 2010
-THIS enemy.

Yeah, well:

Mexico has slammed the U.S. for its 'disproportionate use of force' after a boy of 14 was shot dead by an American Border Patrol officer.

Read more: http://www.dailym...qSV7ITmb


Given enough time, even the brightest hero will become the darkest villian.
otto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 10, 2010
A brit propaganda rag convicts him and you suck it up. The officer was attacked and was defending himself. Lets tell the whole story, ok? If he broke the law he WILL pay for it, unlike taliban and mujaheddin bandits. Meanwhile, back in the land of hapless cameramen and innocent civilians:

"People from all walks of life are participating in a wedding: they are teachers, they are farmers, they are scholars, they are children," said the governor, Tooryalai Wesa... Forty wedding guests were killed and 87 were wounded, according to the governor's office."

-Not to mention the poor talibaner whose head hit the ceiling.
otto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 10, 2010
Given enough time, even the brightest hero will become the darkest villian.
You make it sound inevitable. Is that actually what you believe? There are enemies that we need to fight NOW, and far too few heroes to do the job. There, I matched you profundity for profundity.
RobertKLR
3 / 5 (5) Jun 11, 2010
There is a chain of command and several avenues to report crimes in the military that actually are effective. The soldier knew of these avenues but apparently chose the "celebrity" route instead. He's not a hero, he's a whistle blower.
otto1923
1 / 5 (2) Jun 11, 2010
There is a chain of command and several avenues to report crimes in the military that actually are effective. The soldier knew of these avenues but apparently chose the "celebrity" route instead. He's not a hero, he's a whistle blower.
Except that these weren't crimes. He's not a whistleblower, he's a criminal.
ScientistAmauterEnthusiast
Jun 12, 2010
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
otto1923
1 / 5 (3) Jun 12, 2010
Why is this on a physics site?
Ha! Noob

Its the sociopolitical science and economics of traffic-generation.
Caliban
3 / 5 (2) Jun 12, 2010
Why is this on a physics site?
Ha! Noob

Its the sociopolitical science and economics of traffic-generation.


Physorg is a big umbrella -but someone always ends up getting wet.
DaveGee
1 / 5 (2) Jun 12, 2010
Ya, I'm not gonna comment on this specific story since my point isn't going to convince anyone one way or the other... However I will leave you with this. How do you fight an enemy that if given the power would remove from the face of the earth every man, woman and child that don't have the exact same beliefs as they do?

This is the face of the enemy we are all but forced into fighting with... I know many of you would have us stop the war and call back all the troops and stop 'trading blood for oil' that is what many of you rally-cry nowadays isn't it?

Okay but when DO we fight?

I really wanna know because there's one thing that all but the most diluted people in the world know... They will NOT stop until 'the infidel' are dead. (hint: thats you, me and likely most of the people you and I know).
ScientistAmauterEnthusiast
5 / 5 (1) Jun 12, 2010
Why is this on a physics site?
Ha! Noob

Its the sociopolitical science and economics of traffic-generation.


and your reason for being rude was?
DaveGee
3 / 5 (2) Jun 12, 2010
and your reason for being rude was?


"Its the sociopolitical science and economics of traffic-generation."


He wasn't being rude in as much as he was poking fun at physorg.com... and in turn agreeing with the person.. Okay the use of noob might have been a tad rude but the persons post was far from rude (except maybe in the eyes of physorg.com lol)

Modernmystic
2 / 5 (4) Jun 12, 2010
I hope they give him a needle. The guy he was popping off to about his treason is an anti-establishment hacker and HE thought the guy was going too far and putting people's lives in danger.

Screw Leavenworth, there's a good reason we have the death penalty reserved for this paticular class of slimy scum bag.

Make a BIG example of him...
Isupportpeople
Jun 12, 2010
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Isupportpeople
Jun 12, 2010
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Isupportpeople
Jun 12, 2010
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Caliban
1 / 5 (2) Jun 12, 2010
Why is this on a physics site?
Ha! Noob

Its the sociopolitical science and economics of traffic-generation.


I wouldn't be surprised if "Otto" is a Jewish rat. I would love to break his rat nose!


I fail to see what that would solve.

Truth is, a case- and an equally compelling one- can be made either way, and so they are. The only real question is, did Manning have some kind of knowledge regarding the facts that compelled him to post the info to Wikileaks- or was he just trying to get some glory for himself at the expense of the US military- or even possibly in an effort to "get even" for some harm, either real or imagined, done him by the military?

It's going to be damned difficult at this point to ever get at the reality underlying the situation.
ScientistAmauterEnthusiast
5 / 5 (1) Jun 12, 2010
and your reason for being rude was?


"Its the sociopolitical science and economics of traffic-generation."


He wasn't being rude in as much as he was poking fun at physorg.com... and in turn agreeing with the person.. Okay the use of noob might have been a tad rude but the persons post was far from rude (except maybe in the eyes of physorg.com lol)



Yeah, it was being called a noob as you highlighted and laughed at for asking a question which i found rude.
I still think this should not be here, it moves the focus away from scientific topics and the focus seems to be Otto posting what he "reckons".
Caliban
3 / 5 (2) Jun 13, 2010

Yeah, it was being called a noob as you highlighted and laughed at for asking a question which i found rude.
I still think this should not be here, it moves the focus away from scientific topics and the focus seems to be Otto posting what he "reckons".

Well, there is that. On the other hand- Physorg isn't exclusively a Physics- or even Hard Science-only site, and this fiasco does happen to be of such a nature as to have ripple effects in several areas of interest that are represented on this site: The Internet; IT; Communications; Social Science; and, because of the subject(Military Tech, in part) and the means by which this leak was promulgated, technology in general.

Just my personal opinion, but I don't see any reason why coverage should be excluded- especially since it provides a pretty rich source of material to exchange ideas about.
ScientistAmauterEnthusiast
not rated yet Jun 13, 2010

Yeah, it was being called a noob as you highlighted and laughed at for asking a question which i found rude.
I still think this should not be here, it moves the focus away from scientific topics and the focus seems to be Otto posting what he "reckons".


Well, there is that. On the other hand- Physorg isn't exclusively a Physics- or even Hard Science-only site, and this fiasco does happen to be of such a nature as to have ripple effects in several areas of interest that are represented on this site: The Internet; IT; Communications; Social Science; and, because of the subject(Military Tech, in part) and the means by which this leak was promulgated, technology in general.

Just my personal opinion, but I don't see any reason why coverage should be excluded- especially since it provides a pretty rich source of material to exchange ideas about.


I am all for ideas, but it seems just fuel for the fire as for as the comment boards go, it is people argueing about subjects they
ScientistAmauterEnthusiast
not rated yet Jun 13, 2010
Ignore my last post, would not let me edit it either.

Meant to say: I respect your personal oppinion, but it just doesn't sit right with me, going through the comments all you see is personal politics and what people "reckon". To each their own i guess, thanks!
fleem
5 / 5 (6) Jun 13, 2010
Which leads to tyranny more quickly:

1. Setting the precedent that the state can hide any information it likes
2. Allowing videos like this to be published

As ozzie said in one of the first posts above, "No government is higher than the truth"
otto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jun 13, 2010
Why is this on a physics site?
Ha! Noob

Its the sociopolitical science and economics of traffic-generation.


and your reason for being rude was?
And your reason for being dense and overly sensitive was -?
otto1923
1 / 5 (1) Jun 13, 2010
Why is this on a physics site?
Ha! Noob

Its the sociopolitical science and economics of traffic-generation.

I wouldn't be surprised if "Otto" is a Jewish rat. I would love to break his rat nose!
Youre a twat.
croghan27
5 / 5 (1) Jun 14, 2010
"twats and rats and elephants,
As sure as you're born,
The loveliest was the unicorn."
Mesafina
3.7 / 5 (3) Jun 14, 2010
otto and modernmystic, your quickness to judge others and condemn them to death is disturbing. You do not know who this person is. You do not know why he did what he did, nor do you know what really happened at the site of that footage. In fact, you know pretty much nothing. But yet you have no problem leveling lethal judgement on someone you really know nothing about. That's as dangerous to me as someone who would condemn someone to death for drawing Muhammad because it's driven by the same lines of thinking. Do not be too quick to call for the taking of that which you can never replace. Even if we were to agree that what he did was a crime, murdering him is not the solution.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (3) Jun 14, 2010
otto and modernmystic, your quickness to judge others and condemn them to death is disturbing. You do not know who this person is. You do not know why he did what he did, nor do you know what really happened at the site of that footage. In fact, you know pretty much nothing. But yet you have no problem leveling lethal judgement on someone you really know nothing about. That's as dangerous to me as someone who would condemn someone to death for drawing Muhammad because it's driven by the same lines of thinking. Do not be too quick to call for the taking of that which you can never replace. Even if we were to agree that what he did was a crime, murdering him is not the solution.


Do you know any more than we do?

Your attitude is just as disturbing to me as mine is to you. It's far more dangerous to not punish criminals than it is not to...psssst, that's why we have police, judges, courts, and jails :)

....continued.
Modernmystic
1 / 5 (2) Jun 14, 2010
should have read "than it is to punish them", wouldn't let me edit.

Now then do you have something specifically against the DEATH penalty? Because I'm pretty sure you don't have a problem with judges handing out sentences to criminals you don't know personally, and know zero about their cases...I could be wrong, but I do credit you with maturity greater than a three year old on that point.

otto1923
2.3 / 5 (3) Jun 14, 2010
@mesafina
Nah, you're just taking the opportunity here to posture and be pretentious. If you read through the above posts you would see that I for one learned a great deal about this incident and based my statements on what I learned. I also extrapolated a bit and noted that, because of the timing and the nature of the event, this could very well have been a politically-motivated setup, a demonstration, or what have you.

At any rate it is clear that Reuters was warned about it's safety practices and yet these people were still in a war zone, looking and acting like bad guys. Happens all too often. Read about poor pat tillman and wonder what THAT could have been about.

As to the snitch, his actions are of the type that embolden the enemy, and reveal info which can get coalition forces. The enemy kills under the rules governing war, but traitors such as this guy are murderers, by intent if not in fact.
croghan27
not rated yet Jun 15, 2010
Yet another view .... (I am less than a fan of this Lamo - a big fan of Assange.

"In his chats with Lamo, copies of which were provided to Wired.com by the ex-hacker, Manning described a crisis of conscience that led him to leak a headline-making video of a deadly 2007 U.S. helicopter air strike in Baghdad that claimed the lives of several innocent civilians. He also boasted of leaking a separate video showing the notorious 2009 Garani air strike in Afghanistan that Wikileaks has previously acknowledged is in its possession; a classified Army document evaluating Wikileaks as a security threat, which the site posted in March; a detailed Army chronology of events in the Iraq war; and a cache of 260,000 classified U.S. diplomatic cables"

http://america20x...-source/
frajo
5 / 5 (2) Jun 19, 2010
Here's a comment with Daniel Ellsberg and Birgitta Jonsdottir which refutes some of the deliberately misleading comments in this thread:
http://www.truth-...ers60542
croghan27
5 / 5 (2) Jun 19, 2010
Thanks for that, frajo. I missed Greenwald on Democracy Now because I was off at work. (Going to podcast in a minute).

(I have to do my best to quote here). It was a British judge investigating torture by their troops that pointed out that causing embarressment to a government does not constitute a breech of national security.

theelectrician
1 / 5 (4) Jul 26, 2010
we need to charge these wikileakers with treason, and execute them especially jullian assange.
croghan27
5 / 5 (6) Jul 26, 2010
we need to charge these wikileakers with treason, and execute them especially jullian assange.


Assange is not an American - he is Australian. You want to waltz off into another country and kill their citizens??? Hard to convict him of treason - sorry to disappoint, the US does not rule the world yet.

Never mind answering .... Obama has ok'ed that for even Americans in other countries.
frajo
5 / 5 (2) Jul 26, 2010
You want to waltz off into another country and kill their citizens??? Hard to convict him of treason - sorry to disappoint, the US does not rule the world yet.

Never mind answering .... Obama has ok'ed that for even Americans in other countries.
They are setting an example for their successors on this planet.
Don't know whether it's a wise move.
Don't do unto others what you don't want to be done unto you.
croghan27
5 / 5 (2) Jul 26, 2010
What a confused world ... now we have Russian spies collecting intelligence from Wikipedia, and members of the military not spying, but releasing 'classified' information.

even if I agree with the British judge who sagely pointed out that knowledge that embarrasses politicians is not necessarily important for 'National Security.'