Earnings show less for left-handed, says study

December 7, 2014 by Nancy Owano report
Earnings show less for left-handed, says study

Much has been thrown at left-handed people—they are quick to anger, quickly scared and, with the exception of heads of state, are more or less life's losers. Much too has been bestowed upon left-handed people—they are creative and score highly on certain tests. Obviously, scientists need to rely on more than popular notions to make connections, if any, between left-handed people and success.

A recent attempt in that direction is a paper published in the Journal of Economic Perspectives, "The Wages of Sinistrality: Handedness, Brain Structure, and Human Capital Accumulation," by Joshua Goodman, who holds a PhD in economics from Columbia University and is assistant professor at Harvard's Kennedy School. Those looking for confirmation that are more fortunate than right-handed people will not be heartened by Goodman's research.

About 12 percent of humans are left-handed, with higher rates for males than females. Goodman said that compared to righties, lefties score a tenth of a standard deviation lower on measures of cognitive skill and are not over-represented at the high end of the distribution. The key discussion point from his paper is that "Lefties exhibit economically and statistically significant human capital deficits relative to righties, even conditional on infant health and family background."

Really? One can relate handedness to what happens to the person in the ? Goodman said that the physical preference for one hand over the other may create a comparative advantage or disadvantage in the labor market. Handedness may indicate differential brain structure. "If the structure of lefties' brains affects the accumulation of skills, this may be reflected in labor market outcomes and measures of productivity. Left-handed individuals might fare poorly in the labor market not due to the manual nature of left-handedness, but as a consequence of the underlying neurological wiring that leads to it." He said his paper was the first to demonstrate that lefties have consistently lower labor market earnings than right-handed individuals. "The evidence on occupational choice suggests that the primary disadvantage of left-handedness is not manual but cognitive." Goodman used five longitudinal datasets in his research and they included United States and British datasets.

Lefties born to right-handed mothers have cognitive skills roughly two-tenths of a standard deviation lower than righties. Interestingly, lefties born to left-handed mothers exhibited no statistically significant cognitive skill deficits. He said, "Intriguingly, the right-handed children of left-handed mothers exhibit cognitive gaps similar to those of left-handed children. In short, mismatch between parental and child handedness appears to be a key factor in the association between handedness and cognitive deficits. This may suggest that nurture is an important component of the handedness penalty, though other explanations cannot be ruled out."

In the US sample, male lefties' median annual earnings were $2,500 lower than those of male righties, a gap of roughly 9 percent. In the UK sample, male lefties earned £1,300 less a year than righties, a gap of roughly 5 percent. Both of these differences were statistically significant. In the US sample, female lefties earned $3,400 less than female righties, a 19 percent gap. The female UK sample was the only one not to exhibit a statistically significant earnings gap between lefties and righties, "although the regression-adjusted logarithmic specification shows a marginally significant left-handedness penalty of about 7 percent."

In his conclusion, Goodman said, "the paper leaves for future work the question of whether such gaps are caused by left-handedness or instead arise from other factors for which left-handedness is simply a proxy." He also said that "handedness is generated by neurological wiring that may affect a number of important channels relevant to labor market outcomes."

The author thanked his left-handed wife for encouraging his work "even when the coefficients troubled her."

Explore further: What makes us left or right handed? New study rules out strong genetic factors

More information: Journal of Economic Perspectives, Volume 28, Number 4, Pages 193–212. pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.28.4.193

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fabb4eyes
5 / 5 (6) Dec 07, 2014
How gauche!
gkam
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 07, 2014
I am a leftie, and would love to compare my skills with those of the writer!
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2014
I am a leftie, and would love to compare my skills with those of the writer!
You mean your skills at losing jobs every 6 months? Your skills at creative egomania and creative resume writing? Your skills at flooding and spit posting and cross posting and OT posting?

Your skills at lying and bullshitting would probably fall short, as they do here.
gkam
3.7 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2014
Otto, I undid my Ignore button on you to see what you posted.

I think it is time you asked Stumpy if I verified my identity and claims.

Then, will you apologize?

For those not aware, otto follows me around this site, voting every one of my posts with a "one", assuming it hurts me, I guess. When I bring up my 50-year work history, he screams something like "LIAR, having no experience of his own, I suppose.

I sent Stumpy the front page of Desert Wings, the newspaper of the Air Force Flight Test Center, with my picture on it, as Airmen of the Month, along with a story of mine now owned by Smithsonian Air and Space Magazine.

I do not know what otto did with is his life, but mine has been interesting.
saposjoint
4.3 / 5 (6) Dec 07, 2014
I can vouch for you, but it won't matter to Otto.

I'm also a lefty, and as a mechanic and carpenter I can tell you that those jobs have aspects that *require* a left-hander to be on-site. I got more than one job because of that.
gkam
3.5 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2014
Those limitations must have really inhibited Leonardo Da Vinci.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) Dec 07, 2014
I sent Stumpy the front page of Desert Wings, the newspaper of the Air Force Flight Test Center, with my picture on it, as Airmen of the Month, along with a story of mine now owned by Smithsonian Air and Space Magazine
Whether you were a mechanic for the af or not, who are also considered airmen, is not the issue. Whether you think it enhances the credibility of what you post, is. Whether it lends credence to your claims to being an engineer of some sort, or an MS holder of some discipline relevant to what claim to know, also is.

NOBODY HERE, with the exception of a few other crackpots, uses their accomplishments to try to justify what they post, in part because they know that they're irrelevant. THE FACT that you continue to do so kind of indicates that you're little more than a braggart and a liar. You've left a great deal of evidence so far that indicates that this is the case.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.1 / 5 (11) Dec 07, 2014
I do not know what otto did with is his life, but mine has been interesting
Youre a self-absorbed egomaniac who thinks the world needs to know all about him. That's not very interesting at all.

These articles are written about interesting people doing interesting things. Most people come here to read about and comment on them, not talk about themselves. Only pathetic old men want to do this.
gkam
2.5 / 5 (8) Dec 07, 2014
Otto, I told you of my experience assuming you were more mature than you have shown to be. I exposed myself to you and you responded with personal attacks, epithets and filthy language. You follow me around the site awarding me "ones", without even responding, out of adolescent spite.

I was hoping you would understand and get some learnin' from those who already made your mistakes and had the same silly ideas before learning better. By calling experience bragadoccio, you lose the lessons we tried to teach you.

Yeah, I did all those things, being one who could not take BS from anyone, and now bask in the warm light of decent experience. Perhaps you could drop the ego for a moment and learn?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) Dec 07, 2014
Saposjoint says he can vouch for gkam. Gkam continues to claim he is an engineer even though he admits he has no degree and no license to practice. How you going to vouch for that saposjoint?
yeah I did those things
Who fucking cares? You still post crap. You still post 50-60 one line posts a day, like your every thought is a treasure. You still post alarmist nonsense about nukes and other subjects you obviously aren't familiar with.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2014
Saposjoint answer the question please. Are you willing to 'vouch' with someone with no integrity simply because he agrees with you on certain issues? What does that say about your own integrity?

Gkam continues to claim that he knows how nuclear plants are engineered simply because he was a validation tech in one. You willing to vouch for that too?
SRV's, and was Plant Engineer for a large iron foundry, and was a Test Engineer for National Semiconductor without having had semiconductor theory
See? This imbecile thinks that a job shop category is the same thing as a professional degree and licence. You going to vouch for that?

You're no engineer gkam. You were a validation tech and a maintenance man. That's it. Real engineers here know the difference and you are insulting them. Quit lying about it.
gkam
3.3 / 5 (7) Dec 07, 2014
Otto, you are missing a point: I had no engineering classes of any kind, just technical ones. I learned by doing and figuring it out. When hired by PG&E, I had so much industrial technical experience, I went to Technical Services in two years, and stayed for another five, teaching engineers what they should have learned in school.

Yes, I helped test the BWR SRV's, and was Plant Engineer for a large iron foundry, and was a Test Engineer for National Semiconductor without having had semiconductor theory. Some jobs, you learn while doing them.

I went on my own for the last 20 years as a technical consultant and trainer of engineers and other power professionals, 33,000 of them, before I stopped counting.

Now,will you please stop the personal attacks?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) Dec 07, 2014
Oh yeah I forgot - gkam was a PowerPoint jockey. He delivered presentations prepared by real professionals. Isn't that right gkam?

You'll note that in the last post gkam both claims to be an engineer, and to admit he has absolutely no training as one. And then he claims to know what real engineers ought to know, because he was a tech AND a maintenance man AND a mechanic.

You continue your lies and bullshit and you will continue to be exposed. Guaranteed.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (6) Dec 07, 2014
Are you willing to 'vouch' with someone with no integrity simply because he agrees with you on certain issues?
@GHOST
i think you misunderstand...

Sapo is vouching that gkam is who he says he is, and that he sent me that page on his site- his being the site that Sapo is not only a MOD on, but ADMIN as well

so SAPO has a lot of info that neither you or I have access to, from IP addresses to private blocked info from the user and more

So i would accept Sapo's vouching of the person being who they say they are... as SAPO has this info on me too

I'm also a lefty, and as a mechanic and carpenter I can tell you that those jobs have aspects that *require* a left-hander to be on-site. I got more than one job because of that.
@Sapo
what about ambidextrous dyslexic's?
I always walk left handed, so... does that mean my pay will be affected?
crap!
i better not let the VA know about this... i don't get THAT much from them as it is!!!!
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.6 / 5 (10) Dec 07, 2014
Gkam says he is an engineer and so is privy to info on how nuke plants and power systems are engineered. Did he give you any info that indicated he has such knowledge without the proper training?

I think you misunderstand gkams motives. He was an airman/mechanic according to what you saw, correct? How does this make him an expert on nuke plants and power grids as he claims?
gkam
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 07, 2014
I apologize to all of you for making the mistake of talking about lessons learned from experience. Being a science site, I assumed it would be full of professionals used to dealing with fellow professionals with everything to lose by lying or stretching the truth. In technical fields, it is death for careers, and often for people.

I am an educator, an explainer. I love to see the change in the eyes of folk who have done something all their lives, but now really understand it. It brought tears to mine twice.
koitsu
5 / 5 (3) Dec 07, 2014
"...they are quick to anger, quickly scared and, with the exception of heads of state, are more or less life's losers. Much too has been bestowed upon left-handed people—they are creative and score highly on certain tests."

Wow, now those are some sweeping generalizations for a sentence with no citations after it. I hate that the writing at Physorg has turned into such junk...
gkam
2.6 / 5 (5) Dec 07, 2014
"what about ambidextrous dyslexic's?"
-----------------------------------

They use mirrors.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.3 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2014
I apologize to all of you for making the mistake of talking about lessons learned from experience. Being a science site, I assumed it would be full of professionals used to dealing with fellow professionals with everything to lose by lying or stretching the truth. In technical fields, it is death for careers, and often for people
Except that you're NOT a PROFESSIONAL. And you LIE about being one. If you LIED about being one as a consultant you could be arrested and sued. Perhaps you have learned that lesson already?
It brought tears to mine twice.
Yeah outrageous bullshit makes my eyes water as well.
Captain Stumpy
4.3 / 5 (6) Dec 07, 2014
Gkam says he is an engineer and so is privy to info on how nuke plants and power systems are engineered. Did he give you any info that indicated he has such knowledge without the proper training?

i am only verifying the info i was given
i've not researched further yet, and i don't have access to info like SAPO does

i can also say that i backtracked the IP Addy on his e-mail to source and found it was to a Web site-hosting server on the east coast, so as it is a proxy, his computer could be anywhere in the world and always show the same location, much like a google mail user will always show a Google server location as the IP address (one reason to use proxy servers for e-mail)

there are some ways around this, but then again... there was no reason to go any further
gkam
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 07, 2014
"i can also say that i backtracked the IP Addy on his e-mail to source and found it was to a Web site-hosting server on the east coast, . . "
----------------------------------

I think they are in the midwest. They host my website. I got it decades ago, when it was expensive, so I could have my own domain, and a constant email address. I got tired of it changing every time my ISP got bought out, back in the day.
Doug_Huffman
2.7 / 5 (3) Dec 07, 2014
I am a leftie, and would love to compare my skills with those of the writer!
LOL We already have. Gauche is a fine double entendre.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.2 / 5 (10) Dec 07, 2014
also say that i backtracked the IP Addy on his e-mail to source and found it was to a Web site-hosting server on the east coast, so as it is a proxy
Proxy server. So he could be a complete and utter phony who found a pic of a magazine cover in the public domain, and sent it to you.

Someone who is just playing games and enjoying himself, like pussycat eyes et al. Figures.

As Eikka surmised he exhibits the characteristics of a congenital liar.
Captain Stumpy
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 07, 2014
Proxy server. So he could be a complete and utter phony who found a pic of a magazine cover in the public domain, and sent it to you
@otto
to me, yes
I can only go by what his e-mail address is

but NOT to Sapo

Sapo will not see the proxy that the e-mail used, he will see the actual IP of the computer used, and where it is used, even if it is a dynamic IP like mine, which changes whenever i reset my router (it will narrow down the location to within the service area of the IP)

unless he uses Dial-up to call long distance to a server that allows phone interface then Sapo will be able to see where his IP is

EDIT- also- Sapo doesn't allow anonymizers, so he can't hide with those, either
it keeps out idiots like RC and Zephir from the forum

I think they are in the midwest
@gkam
last e-mail was sent from a NJ IP
just so you know
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 07, 2014
Much ago about nothing? tempest in a teapot?

Shades of Livermore, this a hurricane in a hohlraum.
Noodle_Naut
5 / 5 (2) Dec 07, 2014
The fact that the study uses offensive terms for lefties, and ignores aspects of lefty cognition that have been shown superior (not saying everything is better), casts serious doubts on the objectivity of the study.
Reaction time is well known to be faster. In theory, that should give lefties advantages in a number of activities and professions.
And If I say I am a lefty and good at something...I am a "braggart". Sounds like all the basses are covered.
My reaction time is 140ms at humanbenchmark.com Scores are above mine...people cheat. There was another guy who was faster than me. I asked...he is a lefty too.
I think there is reason to think lefties are better at other things too. Things related to seeing things multiple ways quickly. Tests that show shapes and you come up with a bunch of things it could be, I do insane at. I think it explains over-representation of good lefty comedians. I think we see the big picture, attract bullies, and get cut with cheap knives more.
Estevan57
4.6 / 5 (9) Dec 07, 2014
Hey MODS! We know old man Otto is a relative and all, but it does your site no good to have this kind of language accepted as the norm. Do you really want one person to degrade your site so much?

Pottymouthphys.org?

Examples from TheGhostofOtto1923 in just this articles comment section:



Your skills at lying and bullshitting would probably fall short, as they do here.

See how fucking full of yourself you are? You tried to teach me that plutonium is raining down on Idaho. Utter bullshit does not qualify as knowledge.

Who fucking cares?

See how fucking full of yourself you are?

Utter bullshit does not qualify as knowledge.

You continue your lies and bullshit...

Yeah outrageous bullshit...



Do your job please. Kids may want to read this too.
Shabs42
5 / 5 (5) Dec 07, 2014
Just let it go Otto. He made one very innocuous comment on this thread and you turned it into a whole thing because of your vendetta against him. If he posts something that's bullshit, call him on it. When he says something like his first comment in this post, just let it go, you're only making yourself look immature/obsessed.
gkam
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 07, 2014
Estevan57, thank you.

I had not actually read those posts until you put them up. Sorry to have been a party to it.
saposjoint
3 / 5 (4) Dec 07, 2014
I can't see email server addresses, just the IP when someone touches my site via http, Cap'n.

And ditto the thanks to Estevan.
brunnegd1
not rated yet Dec 07, 2014
Discrimination, pure and simple. It starts when we are young, all of the attempts to turn us to the dark side, thenwe run into all of the right handed slights in the world. When is the last time anyone saw a mouse made for a lefty? In fact, look at how few are even capable of being used by either hand. Clerks automatically hand us a credit card receipt for signature, assuming we are right handed. It is a long list. It is a miracle we all do not have an inferiority complex.
gkam
2 / 5 (4) Dec 08, 2014
I think it makes us better. Let's see righties try to use left-handed anything.
del2
4.2 / 5 (5) Dec 08, 2014
I think it makes us better. Let's see righties try to use left-handed anything.

I agree. I have a really nice pair of left-handed scissors; nobody tries to borrow them from my desk! I also have a left-handed coffee mug (hold it in your right hand and it dribbles down your front).
Computer mice: I've got a nice ambidextrous one, and I use the second finger of my left hand to click the left button; index finger on the right button. Works well. We have to adapt.
Call me sinister if you will, but I'm happy being a southpaw.

verkle
Dec 08, 2014
This comment has been removed by a moderator.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Dec 08, 2014
I can't see email server addresses, just the IP when someone touches my site via http, Cap'n.

And ditto the thanks to Estevan.

@Sapo
Actually, that is what i meant... sorry i didn't make that more clear
The only way of getting an IP for ME is to read the e-mail headers... but anyone touching your site logs an IP , which is "specifically" what i was referring to when i mentioned you above
The God Mod
LMFAO

i sell left handed wood pencils to schools regularly, and the markup is only 400%
everybody wins, right?
Compared to righties, lefties score a tenth of a standard deviation lower on measures of cognitive skill and, contrary to popular wisdom, are not overrepresented at the high end of the distribution. Lefties have more emotional and behavioral problems, have more learning disabilities such as dyslexia, complete less schooling, and work in occupations requiring less cognitive skill
how does this translate to ambidextrous people, i wonder?

Noodle_Naut
5 / 5 (1) Dec 08, 2014
I wonder if they considered that lefties being more big picture conscious, might work less hours to spend more time with their families. Everything is not about money.

Also, lefties tend to be more laid-back, not fighting like mad to step on whoever they have to, to climb the ladder. And they are rarely the slippery wheeler-dealers trying to shaft someone to make a buck. Not saying all righties do this.

Do lefties start with some disadvantages? Sure. I think lefty students would do better with lefty teachers the first few years when they are learning to write, and a hundred other manual skills. Kindergarten through third. I write digging into the page, and was slow to tie my shoes. 1 side school desks are criminal.

The only other issue that matters to me is knives. They grind only one side of an edge on the cheap junk. Very dangerous. Should be illegal. Ambidextrous scissors are at every 99 cent store.

Computer mouse? Mine is a junk ambidextrous one...big deal.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Dec 08, 2014
The fact that the study uses offensive terms for lefties
@Noodle_Naut
not sure i saw that... what offensive terms were used?
Reaction time is well known to be faster.
do you have a reference for this, please? i would love to read it. thanks

I think it makes us better. Let's see righties try to use left-handed anything.
@gkam
I use left handed pencils all the time... :-P

Here is the weird thing with me: i can throw an (American) football MUCH further with my right hand than left, but i am FAR more ACCURATE throwing with my left hand...

and i am also left eye dominant, so shooting left handed is more accurate... although i am not too much a technical shooter as an instinctive one
Noodle_Naut
3 / 5 (2) Dec 08, 2014
"Lefties have more emotional and behavioral problems, have more learning disabilities such as dyslexia,..."

Nah, people who are completely messed up are a flip of a coin right or left. Since it is a flip of the coin on these, they are going to distort the numbers for normal lefties when thrown in. Shaken babies with scrambled brains...babies dropped down the stairs... Babies where big brother was sticking his fingers in-between the cranial plates. Babies thrown against the wall by @#%&. They are all going to be scrambled. Whether they learn to hold a plastic spork with one hand or the other...coin flip..no longer genetically determined.

Noodle_Naut
3 / 5 (3) Dec 08, 2014
Look up sinister.

Google: A Literature Review
on Reaction Time
by Robert J. Kosinski
Clemson University

Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Dec 08, 2014
Look up sinister
@Noodle_Naut
the author is not calling lefties sinister, just passing on what the historical word means as well as the historical associations to left handed people

This is a great example of how religion and superstition have ruined lives as well as directly affected public perceptions with regard to natural activities

Religion has historically always been against that which it cannot control or doesn't understand (which is why verkle, jvk, ren82 and certain other posters are so anti-science in certain regards... as well as why they downvote ANY post/article/person with regard to things like evolution, mutations, etc)

This can still be seen in today's society, for some stupid reason

My kids/grand-kids are mixed between left, right and both handed... and the lefties are being singled out and (even still today) being driven to be right-handed (till i get involved, that is)

Don't let the stupidity of those people get to you
ENJOY your unique gift
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Dec 08, 2014
Google: A Literature Review
on Reaction Time
by Robert J. Kosinski
Clemson University

P.S.
Thanks for the reference
I will be reading it as soon as i can

For those who wish to read the information themselves, i will link two links-

One is a site with info and links: http://biae.clems...tion.htm

one is a PDF called "The Scientific Method: An Introduction Using Reaction Time ": http://www.ablewe...nski.pdf

ThomasQuinn
3.4 / 5 (5) Dec 08, 2014
Am I the only one who finds the income-conclusion statistically dodgy? Comparing two populations that relate to each other in size in a ratio of 3/25 and then simply comparing median incomes for those two vastly disproportional groups is bound to give a questionable outcome.
Doug_Huffman
not rated yet Dec 08, 2014
It is what passes for web-acuity.
daqddyo
not rated yet Dec 08, 2014
My, my, I think a few of us have strayed from the theme, although the insults are amusing.

Returning to the topic of this article, I was born a leftie and my mother was a righty. When she first noticed my "affliction" (religious based), I was carted off to our family doctor for help. He told my mother to "leave the kid alone, he'll be fine". The doctor was correct.
And, I was.

BTW, I'm a dazzling sword fighter, as my righty opponents have no idea how to cope.
Shabs42
not rated yet Dec 08, 2014
I think it makes us better. Let's see righties try to use left-handed anything.


Agreed. We all have to learn to use our right hands to some extent, while righties hardly ever bother learning anything with their left. Add in that I've broken my left hand twice and my left thumb once, and I'm almost fully ambidextrous now. Comes in handy for showing off if nothing else.

Now if only someone had taught me to write properly so I didn't drag my hand through what I had just written and smear everything...
del2
1 / 5 (1) Dec 08, 2014
Now if only someone had taught me to write properly so I didn't drag my hand through what I had just written and smear everything...

I've never understood why other lefties have this trouble writing - after all, there are many right-handers writing Arabic, Hebrew and other right-to-left scripts. My brother-in-law (another leftie) turns his whole hand round so that it's above the writing, which really looks weird. My hand rests on the paper about 2 cm below the line I'm writing, and there's no danger of smearing. one suggestion is to turn the paper clockwise about 20°, that's what I do.
But the world is generally designed for right-handers. I was persuaded to play golf many years ago, and the only clubs available for me were …yes, right-handed. From memory, my score was around 40. I did consider going back the next day to play the second hole, but decided it wasn't worth the bother :-)
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2014
Just let it go Otto. He made one very innocuous comment on this thread and you turned it into a whole thing because of your vendetta against him. If he posts something that's bullshit, call him on it. When he says something like his first comment in this post, just let it go, you're only making yourself look immature/obsessed.
I guess you haven't been following his escapades. Gkam has claimed to be various kinds of engineer, inventor, lecturer, scientist, etc for the purpose of adding credibility to his anti-nuke nonsense, at the rate of 50-60 posts a day. Some people here who haven't waded through his floods may think he knows what he is talking about.

But both his backround and his facts have been debunked. People need to be aware of this I think.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2014
I see I have become otto's obsession.

That's kinda cool.

What did he do without me?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 08, 2014
As per estivans cred;

"Estevan57 discussing his CNC BUSINESS, the only one in OR that makes lower receivers for AR15shttp://phys.org/n...ncluding customer names. Unreal. "O magnificent bed-wetter - the answer to your question is YES I own you." "So I let my neice downvote you. I don't need to bother. 5 cents a vote, thats all you're worth."..."

-this little gnome is in love with me. He shows up every day to downrate all my posts because he 'owns me'.

You all should be very careful who you encourage on this site - they might show up on your doorstep.
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 08, 2014
Estevan57 the STALKER:"If you are interested, daywalker, pm me and i'll tell you why I stalk Otto."..."So I will be Ottos doppelganger."(But then he says)"I would heartily disaprove of anyone stalking another person here or anywhere else."

Estevan57s CHARACTER: "to fuck your mother Otto" "son of a dead smoking whore" "Otto leckt seiner toten Mutter rauchigen Geruch Genitalien"..."Why are you looking for pussy, darling? U KNOW you only love to suckee on me." "Have you quit fucking your dog yet?" "Ignorant bed-wetter"

-From previous posts and PMs. Google any of them for the source.
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2014
"You all should be very careful who you encourage on this site - they might show up on your doorstep."
-------------------------------------------

Is otto making threats? If I see anything out of the ordinary, I will know who to check.

Why is he allowed in this forum, with his inherent nastiness and foul mouth?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 08, 2014
"You all should be very careful who you encourage on this site - they might show up on your doorstep."
-------------------------------------------

Is otto making threats? If I see anything out of the ordinary, I will know who to check.

Why is he allowed in this forum, with his inherent nastiness and foul mouth?
The only threat I make to you is to continue to expose your lies about being a professional. I'm saying that impotent stalkers like estevan exist and ought not to be encouraged. Who knows what their frustrations might compel them to do?
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2014
Otto, give it up. You have been rejected by everyone here.

Stop the personal attacks. How many down-votes do you get from me? None, because I just started reading your posts again, now that those who can know me have spoken up. And when you find out most of us here are real, it may be a shock.

I am the only one here who uses his experience as support for my claims, probably because I really did things, and because I am not going to go the extra mile like the good folk such as Stumpy do, because it will not change your mind.

Let's start over.

Nice day, . . . I wonder what discoveries we will find today?
TheGhostofOtto1923
2.7 / 5 (7) Dec 08, 2014
Your experience is as a mechanic, maintenance man, validation tech, PowerPoint jockey, and 'consultant', the refuge of job shoppers. You claim that this experience enables you to call yourself an engineer and to offer opinions as one.

You will continue to act this way and I will continue to expose you. Clear?
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2014
Unable to admit error, otto wants to be banned.

Otto, I would have told you long ago who I am, but you are a vandal, emotionally-unstable, and quick to react with attacks. I resent the fact it brings out the same in me. I will not continue in this vein.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (4) Dec 08, 2014
You all should be very careful who you encourage on this site - they might show up on your doorstep
@Otto
you have a VERY good point here Ghost...

@everyone else
Consider this a warning to anyone who tries this at my place: you better call first. Castle Doctrine. 'Nuff said?

Why is he allowed in this forum, with his inherent nastiness and foul mouth?
@gkam
you know, as much problems as i have had with Otto in the past, and though i don't always agree or like his language... he DOES often support his position with references and links, and makes some real good points as well

Just ignore the taunts and keep linking supporting evidence to your own arguments and Otto will stop pestering you

not taking sides- it is simple. just like i said from the beginning:
use science
links
references
studies
That way the people have to refute the science, not you

i know you've had experience

but on the web, anyone can make a claim
and that is Otto's point, i think
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (3) Dec 08, 2014
I am the only one here who uses his experience as support for my claims, probably because I really did things, and because I am not going to go the extra mile like the good folk such as Stumpy do, because it will not change your mind
@gkam
thanks for the compliment
It might not change his mind but it will make him stop pestering you

When you link references/studies/etc, like i pointed out above, it becomes about the science, not the personal experience

Again, not taking sides, but Otto has some valid points!
on the web, you can be anyone you wish
(old relevant phrase from 4chan - there are no women on the web)

think of this as a left-handed problem

You have an issue (Otto and personal experience VS evidence)
you can continue trying to use the right handed scissors (personal experience) and get frustrated with Otto, or you can just go natural (left handed) and start linking supporting evidence

trying really hard to direct this back to the topic
gkam
2.3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2014
"but on the web, anyone can make a claim and that is Otto's point, i think"
---------------------------------------------------
Well, of course you are correct. My point is I had expected a higher standard of trust and certainly language in a science forum. I tried to give him a reference to my name so he could look it all up, but it fortunately did not work, because after that, I did not trust him with that information.

I have invited him to resume a straight discussion and got more threats. I will continue to not respond.

I apologize for being part of this adolescent nonsense.

Over and out.
Captain Stumpy
5 / 5 (5) Dec 08, 2014
My point is I had expected a higher standard of trust and certainly language in a science forum
@Gkam
AGREED!
there really should be

but then again... there are scores of idiot types out there who just want attention and don't have a lick of science or common sense supporting them
See RC, Zeph, antiG, etc for details on that
You've dealt with those types, right?
I apologize for being part of this adolescent nonsense.
Over and out
i know it is irritating... just post references and it will become habit
then this will be all water under the bridge
more experience
a LOT of folks have gone through it already
myself included

also: nothing wrong with protecting your personal
That is why i said use Sapo's Joint
Sapo is trustworthy
and i will not share unless given permission

PEACE
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2014
You have been rejected by everyone here
Others who have engaged you in discussion like eikka and modernmystic have concluded that you are, among other things, a 'compulsive liar'. And so you lie about the universal rejection.

Above, you claimed to be an engineer while in the same post you admit that you have no training as one and no degree.
nothing wrong with protecting your personal
Again you miss the point. A discussion with gkam goes something like this; gkam posts some sensationalist nuclear waste propaganda; someone like modernmystic posts refs showing how its not true; and gkam responds that, because he worked on a nuke site AND is an engineer, he knows what he is talking about. And further, he knows BETTER than the real engineers who designed the thing.

Sorry stump. this may not seem like a big thing to you but it is offensive to professionals here who have had to deal with bullshitters of this sort in the past, in the field and in the workplace.
TheGhostofOtto1923
3 / 5 (6) Dec 08, 2014
And since gkam has not yet learned what would seem to be a very simple lesson, he will continue to be corrected until he does. But I have my doubts.

NO JUSTICE NO PEACE.

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