Researchers suggest Victorian-era people more intelligent than modern-day counterparts

May 17, 2013 by Bob Yirka weblog
Researchers suggest Victorian-era people more intelligent modern-day counterparts
Queen Victoria, after whom the era is named. Credit: Wikipedia

(Phys.org) —In a new study, a European research team suggests that the average intelligence level of Victorian-era people was higher than that of modern-day people. They base their controversial assertion on reaction times (RT) to visual stimuli given as tests to people from the late 1800s to modern times—the faster the reaction time, they say, the smarter the person.

The Victorian era has been highly touted by historians as one of the most productive in —inventions, observations and highly acclaimed art and music from that time still resonate today. The era was defined by Queen Victoria's reign in England which ran from 1837 until her death in 1901. Comparing the average IQ of people from that time with that of modern-day people is, of course, impossible—at least using traditional methods. The researchers suggest that reaction times to stimuli can be used as an alternative way to compare relative IQ levels.

themselves have come under scrutiny of late because they quite often reflect bias, such as education levels, societal norms, and other not-easily defined factors. Other research has shown that overall health, nutrition levels and degree of fatigue can impact IQ scores as well. For this reason, the team has turned to RT as a means of evaluating what they call general , which they claim to be a measure of elementary cognition.

The researchers didn't come up with the idea of RT as a measure of intelligence themselves; rather, they are relying on claims made by other researchers over the years that they say prove that RT is a way of measuring the "true" intelligence of a person, i.e. an intelligence measure not impacted by education level, illness, background, etc. Using such claims as a basis, the team looked at RT tests given by various researchers during the period 1884 to 2004, and found that RT rates slowly increased over the entire time period. For men, the increase was found to be 183ms to 253ms; for women the increase was from 188ms to 261ms. The researchers claim this proves that people have grown "less clever" over time. They back up their claim by suggesting they know the reason for the decline in intelligence—smarter people having fewer children, while the less smart, have more.

The claims by the European team will undoubtedly be viewed as controversial—after all, no one has proved that reaction times truly are an accurate measure of intelligence. Nor does the data suggest that those researchers testing people for their reaction times chose their subjects at random, or even in fact, performed the tests in the same way as everyone else. There's also the consideration of the Flynn effect, where other researchers have found average intelligence levels rising since the WW II.

The study has been published in the journal Intelligence.

Explore further: New anthology offers comprehensive insight into the life and works of Margaret Thatcher

More information: www.sciencedirect.com/science/… ii/S0160289613000470

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IamVal
3.1 / 5 (17) May 17, 2013
ridiculous quasi-science.

pigeons, dogs and dragonflies all exhibit significantly faster reaction times because the rudimentary logic systems they wield are much simpler and thus can complete full cycles much faster than their much more memory intensive planet-mates; the humans.

I'd also wager a person such as stephan hawking,would also score significantly lower on 'reaction time' tests and significantly higher on intelegence tests than the majority of people.

I do, however, agree with their conclusions in essence. especially if we change the definition of intelegence to be the portion of the _current_ human condition that the subject can understand... If that were the prerequisite, then the assertion is most certainly true. But, that in and of itself creates another conundrum: that the mass of the human condition continues to grow ever larger; exponentially so if you subscribe to moores law- So, it would be a case of a moving target, not that people have significantly changed.
VENDItardE
1.8 / 5 (29) May 17, 2013
more moronic socialists
mvg
3.7 / 5 (15) May 17, 2013
I am not sure about RT--but other factors point to the same overall conclusion.

Many years ago I worked with a group of elderly gentlemen who had been raised and educated in the late Victorian era. Their language ability was greatly superior to their modern counterparts (if you doubt it try reading a hundred year old Victorian newspaper). One of them told me that when he was in elementary school (1880's) everyone learned Latin--and unless you were a complete dunce, in high school you learned Greek (Today people are hardly able to speak/spell/write in their own language).

In addition, their understanding of history and a broadly-based understanding of science was surprising(yes I know tech has advanced--but few have the broad-based knowledge that these late-Victorian men of letters had).
Moebius
3.3 / 5 (21) May 17, 2013
So today's people are less intelligent and much more knowledgeable. Sounds like a dangerous trend to me. By extrapolation you eventually get ultimate power in the hands of the most stupid.
jalmy
2.8 / 5 (17) May 17, 2013
Well I for one certainly do not need a study to tell me that most people are total morons now days. And I can tell you right now why that is. The classic humanistic life struggles have been significantly reduced. Man vs Man, Man vs Nature have both been dramatically reduced. This is the obvious reversal of the proverb "necessity is the mother of invention." . Lack of necessity has bred laziness and stupidity into the average person. Entertainment and social networks are now more important to people than thinking about stuff. If you haven't seen the movie 'Idiocracy', check it out. It's basically an exact picture of the future. Also people think that access to information is the same as having that information within. So in a time of the google era and the majority of human knowledge is available at the touch of some buttons. People do not feel the need to know things, or understand things. How many times did you hear kids say they didn't need to know algebra in school?
gmurphy
3.5 / 5 (2) May 17, 2013
Chimps have faster reaction times than humans on simple cognitive tests. The reason for this is that the chimps do not invest any effort into processing the *meaning* of the content and simply react to the most superficial aspects of the stimuli. It may be that these reactions times are not a symptom of decreasing intelligence but a consequence of the increasing complexity of our societies, ie, instead of a cup of coffee, now we have a 'grande iced half caf triple mocha latte macchiato' :)
physyD
5 / 5 (7) May 17, 2013
Without reading the article, the title suggest that that is correct. "Researchers suggest Victorian-era people more intelligent modern-day counterparts". Me thinks there is a grammatical error which they would not have made...
TheGhostofOtto1923
2 / 5 (23) May 17, 2013
Victorian peoples brains were also full of more irrational garbage which restricted their thinking abilities. We can observe this in today's religionists.

But technology and tribal conflict have forced our brains to grow to an unsustainable size. They are energy-hungry, delicate, defect-prone, and they begin to degrade shortly after adolescence.

Without the healthy selection process of conflict the median intellect can be expected to decline. Could this be one of the Reasons that wars are Staged? Would the ancients have observed this decline in populations and sought to maintain the level of conflict for the health of the species?

Of the Germans who fought in stalingrad, 5% of enlisted men, 50% of junior officers, and 95% of senior officers survived. What is the general level of intelligence among euros after the war compared to before? One pertinent indicator: they are a lot less religious.

Do religions provide a way of weeding out the unintelligent by compelling them to fight?
jalmy
1.7 / 5 (12) May 17, 2013
physyD. Many of these articles come directly from associated press news feeds. There are errors in the titles, things lost in translation, misspellings, bad grammar are all very common. This is one of the points this article alludes to. Something ignorant people often fail to recognize is the object of language is to convey ideas and thoughts from one individual to another. Research and experiment show grammar is practically unimportant. In my experience grammar nazis are usually high school kids, who think they know something, but in fact are still children who understand next to nothing of cognition or intelligence.
cantdrive85
2 / 5 (36) May 17, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is unlikely post graduates (univ) could answer many of the questions these days. There is little doubt that a person of average intelligence today is a complete dunce compared to the same person from the 19th century. OBAMA! being the POTUS is the perfect example of the stupidity of the average person.
SolidRecovery
1.4 / 5 (9) May 17, 2013
Interesting study, some what of a pseudo science and controversial but interesting nevertheless. I am not sure if RT is independent of societal norms as it has been proven that the overall well being of a society improves with greater equality. Did the social norms at the time improve your RT? The society at the time was more labor intensive. I could see your RT improving depending on the physical task you part take in.
arq
4.1 / 5 (9) May 17, 2013
You know what RT is most influenced by......the quality of our sleep!!
JP of Louisiana
1.6 / 5 (13) May 17, 2013
People are less intelligent today because we pollute our environment with mercury and lead.
no fate
4.2 / 5 (10) May 17, 2013
In 1901 a physicist could learn the sum of human knowledge in their chosen field in a few years, 10 for the slower of the lot. Today you would have to memorize at the upper limit of your ability for 50 years just to coalate the all knowledge of one branch of physics unless you are Tony Stark.

In 1901 a secratary used a pen and had to know how to read and write. Now they are called office administrators and it is a college course due to the required knowledge.

Point being you can't measure everyone with the same stick in this case. Reaction time has nothing to do with it.
krundoloss
2.5 / 5 (8) May 17, 2013
What is intelligence anyway? Is it problem solving? Perhaps the ability to learn something new quickly? Is it having a good memory? Modern research has shown that the brain is very flexible, and it will do what is required for survival. But what happens when less and less intelligence is required for survival? Exactly, the idiocracy world. It is disturbing how we have broken natural selection, leading to our gene pool being full of undesirable traits. If everyone survives regardless of thier bad genetics, how will mother nature be able to improve upon Humankind? It probably will not, and the only evolution we will have is genetic memory. It would be nice if we could limit the number of children that less intelligent people can have. I know, Im a nazi. Deal with it!
_ilbud
2.6 / 5 (8) May 17, 2013
Obviously these conclusions are correct for the US but hardly valid elsewhere.
julianpenrod
1.9 / 5 (13) May 17, 2013
Among other things, being able to locate Ethiopia on a map, having a familiarity with Shakespeare, recognizing the value of foresight seems somewhat more sophisticated than knowing scores of every Superbowl back to the beginning, spending every free moment with video games and being addicted to the idea that you only want to engage in the aimless diversion commonly referred to as "fun". Just knowing every episode of "Lost" doesn't make you necessarily intelligent. But, then, the insipid don't necessarily seem averse to defining themselves as the apex of humanity.
To be sure, though, reaction time doesn't seem necessarily to indicate intelligence. Note that the article telegraphs its bias on the issue. When they describe the evidence the "research" uses, they phrase it as "they say" this indicates higher intelligence. If it was something the article supported, they would use the less quizzical phrase that "they assert" it indicates higher intelligence.
tadchem
2.8 / 5 (6) May 17, 2013
"research has shown that overall health, nutrition levels and degree of fatigue can impact IQ scores"
These factors can also impact reaction times.
Correlation is NOT Causation.
krundoloss
2.2 / 5 (9) May 17, 2013
I disagree with anyone stating that knowledge has anything to do with intelligence, with the only exception being that being intelligent does lead to an increased absoption of information. Here's the thing, I dont know where Ethopia is. Why? Because I dont care! If you told me, I would forget it because I still wouldnt care. We remember and learn what we care about. I am good at math, but if I dont use it regularly I will forget it, ALL of it. Im sure most of us work, think of all the things you have gotten used to at your job. Why does it come naturally to you? Because you need to know it, you repeat it until you have it right, and it is the key to your survival. We are as intelligent as we need to be. And if we are not, we go on welfare, LOL!
hb_
2.5 / 5 (10) May 17, 2013
Does anyone what the degradation from 183 ms to 253 ms correspond to in terms of IQ-points? By itself, the degradation is rather large - +38% reaction time - but is the alleged IQ-reduction also this big?
hb_
1 / 5 (5) May 17, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is.


Neat! Where do I find these questions? How would I obtain them (I assume they are math-questions)?
visualhawk
1 / 5 (8) May 17, 2013
ridiculous quasi-science.

.....


You bet - and this gets reported on ?
brianweymes
not rated yet May 17, 2013
I've taken a lot of reaction time tests myself, and what I've noticed is that the result significantly varies depending on which computer one's using. The amount of variation can be greater than 50 ms. I've seen a few studies investigating reaction times report significantly higher times than should be expected (college age students averaging 270 ms for example) using computerized tests. It could be the most accurate way to measure reaction time is the old fashioned, precomputer method where you catch a dropping ruler that they were using in the Victorian Era.

This is also strange because it contradicts the increase in brain size that's occurred over the last 200 years in the developed world (at least among White Americans), as well as the Flynn effect.

I'm very skeptical.
cantdrive85
1 / 5 (12) May 17, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is.


Neat! Where do I find these questions? How would I obtain them (I assume they are math-questions)?

I couldn't find the original article I read, but this Harvard entrance exam is quite interesting.
julianpenrod
2.4 / 5 (14) May 17, 2013
krundoloss tries to make the argument that, for example, not knowing where Ethiopia is even after seeing it, does not indicate a lack of intelligence, if it isn't important to the person to know it. How much mental presence is there, really, if you have to make a conscious effort to fix something in memory? Normal people are supposed to retain images, ideas, sensations.
How intelligent is it not to commit something to memory because you are absolutely certain, at that moment, that there is no way whatsoever that you will need it later on?
And, frankly, where is the intelligence in knowing something only to use it? An aspect of intelligence is supposed to be embracing thought, awareness, und3erstanding, even if it is not pragmatically necessary? It sounds like a recipe for a humanity segmented into different groups, each thinking only specific things.
jalmy
2 / 5 (12) May 17, 2013
Obviously these conclusions are correct for the US but hardly valid elsewhere.


It was a European study where both groups were from Europe......

Please follow proper scientific methodology.

Step one. Read the article.
Step two. Post your stupid opinion.
Captain Stumpy
1.3 / 5 (12) May 17, 2013
although I may agree with the basic statement, that Victorians were smarter, I cannot agree with their method. Are they testing both with video games, or with natural threats?
given the time frame, you have a completely different lifestyle that relies heavily (for a large part of the population) on the need for physical traits necessary for survival. a Mountain Man will be more adept at survival than Degrasse Tyson will be, and therefore score higher on the RT scale, but is this intelligence?
the educated were different as well, as most people were taught how to find their own answers, whereas most people nowadays (in America) are taught how to pass a standardized test.
also there is the question of intelligence: the ability to recall random data? or the ability to apply knowledge?
I live in the mountains as a mountain man. I think I would score better on RT than my daughter, the engineer.
cantdrive85
1.6 / 5 (13) May 17, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is.


Neat! Where do I find these questions? How would I obtain them (I assume they are math-questions)?

I couldn't find the original article I read, but this Harvard entrance exam is quite interesting.

Oops;
http://graphics8....exam.pdf
Captain Stumpy
1.9 / 5 (13) May 17, 2013
ghost of otto - "Of the Germans who fought in stalingrad, 5% of enlisted men, 50% of junior officers, and 95% of senior officers survived."

could this not have been because the enlisted fight at the front, the officers lead (normally from the rear) and the senior officers are usually way back in staging area's planning and leading? it appears to me that distance from the fighting makes all the difference in survival.
I am not sure how that applies to religion either. everywhere I have been in Europe, there was religion... usually one of the Christian religions. please explain.
ValeriaT
1.5 / 5 (15) May 17, 2013
The people in Victorian era were more inquisitive - the public demonstrations of electricity and discharge phenomena were quite widespread and popular. Today, when the people face the new and/or unexplained yet phenomena, they're trying to ignore it first - if it's not possible, then they're trying to deny and doubt it.
Shootist
1.6 / 5 (13) May 17, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is unlikely post graduates (univ) could answer many of the questions these days. There is little doubt that a person of average intelligence today is a complete dunce compared to the same person from the 19th century. OBAMA! being the POTUS is the perfect example of the stupidity of the average person.


But is was for the children, and what not.

Heinlein's "Crazy Years", indeed.
Claudius
2 / 5 (12) May 17, 2013
The people in Victorian era were more inquisitive


For me, that sums it up. Inquisitiveness is the essence of intelligence, in my opinion. Many people today seem to lack it, that hunger for knowledge for its own sake.

In today's society, all too many people have become complacent, letting the state take care of their needs. They occupy themselves with trivial interests, rarely looking behind the curtain, relying on political correctness to guide their opinions. We are becoming cogs in the machine, losing our individuality, intelligence limited to what is necessary to accomplish certain tasks and nothing more.

Blame the educational system, for not maintaining high standards. Blame the news and entertainment industry, for lowering the bar. Blame the elites, who have decided that wage slaves don't need more than basic intelligence.
El_Nose
1 / 5 (1) May 17, 2013
doesn't this mean Neanderthals - had a vastly higher IQ

I mean -- heck almost all prey animals have high RT -- otherwise they are well .. eaten.

@Valeria

what about trade shows -- Google I/O -- did you ever tune into a yearly Apple debut?? I think people are always interested in new technology.

I think you are critiquing personal attitudes toward scientific conclusions. These reactions are seeded from personal beliefs that may have never been tested, local societal norms, religious beliefs, or just how a person feels that day ;-)

@Cladious

I argue that in any given era you are describing the majority of the population.
Claudius
1.7 / 5 (12) May 17, 2013
@Cladious

I argue that in any given era you are describing the majority of the population.


I wasn't around in the Victorian era, but I can remember the 1950s and 60s. The contrast with the current generation is dramatic. In the earlier times that I remember, when you checked out at the grocery store, you saw Newsweek, Time, National Geographic and other news magazines. Now you only see People, Vogue, National Enquirer, etc. Same thing with television, there used to be a much higher level of intelligent content. The educational system I experienced was dramatically different from what my children experienced. Standards were much higher then.

Things have changed, within recent memory, dramatically. I am sure that a trip to the Victorian era would produce an even more dramatic impression.

xeb
2 / 5 (8) May 17, 2013
Funny :)
But one serious subject is worth mentioning: social hierarchy.
Aristocrats kept masses under shoes, didn't have to work much, etc.
After few revolutions, wars, inventions, demographic trends, etc. finally the masses may have it all.
But someone has got to work :) so a ballance has self-organized between feeding the masses with some low-cost substitutes/promises of individualism (and social advance) and leaving some paths for tallented/stubborn ones and discurage both levels (workers / influentials) from thinking about autonomy (e.g. from techno-economic network). (...)
ValeriaT
1.4 / 5 (10) May 17, 2013
Quite paradoxically, the beginning of cold fusion experiments, magnetic motors, Boltzmann brain and dense aether models all still belong into Victorian era. From this time the physics gave up the balanced approach and it started to develop in abstractly formal way. Not surprisingly these findings and ideas were all ignored if not suppressed.
ValeriaT
1.4 / 5 (11) May 17, 2013
I think people are always interested in new technology
AWT brings many aspects into perception of human history. One insight is, that with increasing distance in time the past events do appear more dynamic in similar way, like the seeming evolution of universe, because we tend to ignore the subtle gradualist connections of the past. This is subjectivists intrinsic perspective. The subjectivist perspective is, the character of human evolution has changed gradually in similar way, like the spreading of ripples at the water surface after splash. The boom of formal approach in physics was historically substantiated because it simply worked well in the give epoch of human civilization evolution. Now we are in the epoch where the deterministic ways for reality understanding are exhausted and the pluralistic holistic approach may appear more effective. The people in Victorian era weren't smarter than us - they just were lucky with their deterministic approach to reality understanding.
ValeriaT
1.4 / 5 (12) May 17, 2013
Errata: "The subjectivist perspective is" should be "The extrinsic objective perspective is.."..

For example, the contemporary physicists are undoubtedly handling way more complex and abstract models, than the physicists of Kelvin era ever solved - but just the theoretical physics (SUSY, LQG, string theory) exhibits a lower success by now, because current epoch of human society evolution favors more holistic and intuitive approach (our knowledge expands over deterministic zone of observable universe). Therefore the relative success of Victorian era is not just about IQ, i.e. about ability to solve tasks in deterministic way - but about social and historical constellations too. The deterministic theory of relativity was accepted relatively smoothly because it followed the social need of its era. From the same reason the dual holistic dense aether theory of Oliver Lodge had been forgotten in its entirety.
Martin_Shaw
1 / 5 (6) May 17, 2013
I'd say IQ is on the downswing. Just read some of the posts on this topic. It's laughable what people write. Forget Seinfeld - it's in reruns. The real comedy is on PhysOrg.
BarKahn
3.7 / 5 (3) May 17, 2013
Just to offer an additional perspective: Victorian authors, Dickens, Thackeray, Twain, Howells, etc., wrote prodigiously. Numerous articles, essays, letters, in addition to writing twenty to thirty volumes of fiction and non-fiction. Moreover, the quality of their work has not been surpassed by 20th Century writers whose production is a small fraction of the Victorian's output. I don't know whether or not this bears on the question of IQ; it does suggest that modern technology, particularly modern communications, has had an adverse effect on the quantity and quality of literary creation.
AlexCoe
1.8 / 5 (10) May 17, 2013
My first consideration is the means to measure time accurately in ms in the 1880's, since the "standard second" wasn't even established yet, much less the ability to accurately and consistently measure such with a degree of accuracy needed to be able to make such comparisons with modern time measuring devices.
rwinners
2.2 / 5 (9) May 18, 2013
A simpler explanation is that 100 plus years ago it was much more necessary for a successful human being to be 'quick on his feet'.
Neinsense99
1.4 / 5 (9) May 18, 2013
I knew all that accidental exposure to leaking Kardashian 123 was causing trouble...
Neinsense99
1.8 / 5 (10) May 18, 2013
Too much Jersey Shore?
LarryD
2.1 / 5 (7) May 18, 2013
In some ways I agree with ValeriaT and Claudius in others, maybe not. But if anyone has seen the 1950 version of 'the day the earth still' Prof. Barnard(Sam Jaff) states that it isn't faith that makes good science it's curiosity. (the modern version of the film has nothing, in my view). I think that this statement is basically true in perhaps life in general. Lose interest and the world will pass you by.
But then again most fields of study have much more content (as comments above say) that one can hardly be blamed for not knowing some things. However, sometimes this could have a negative effect on some people who might feel that the mountains of material (math.phys etc) are just too high and decide to do something else.
Reaction time is something else. I am a martial artists and I have seen on many occasion a black get beaten by someone 2 or 3 grades lower. This has happened within one school and on the competition ciruit. Out of the several reasons one comes to the fore...cont
Szkeptik
2.6 / 5 (5) May 18, 2013
The idea that reaction time itself is an indicator of intelligence seems very shaky assumption to me. Reaction times tend to be reduced by training. A martial artist will have his reaction times reduced throughout the years by training and that surely doen't mean he's also getting more intelligent. Also someone who lives off the land will surely have faster RT-s than a city dweller, however drawing any conclusions from this regarding intelligence would be obviously erroneous.
Maybe timing constructive reactions to comlex problems could be an indicator, but certainly not just RT in general.
LarryD
2 / 5 (8) May 18, 2013
Some students with a smaller repertoire can win because they use their techniques better than their opponent. In other words reaction time can depend on interest and or risk element. Sometimes tests do not simulate real life situations and this is also true of SOME martial art competitions where there are so many modern rules that they have lost their value. Try the ultimate reaction test with a gun in your back...can you turn away fast enough not to get shot? I don't that this will have changed much, if at all, since they invented the gun.
arq
2.6 / 5 (5) May 18, 2013
The best way to improve intelligence:

1) Get enough sleep. Stay away from sleep disruptors before hitting the sack.

2) Eat a balanced diet. Our diets are deficient in some vitaminerals like vit C,A,E,B12, magnesium, zinc etc

3) When your mind is stressed...think something pleasant. Stress plays havoc with the mind

4) If you are not getting sun at all, get it. The suns rays help in vasodilation and vit D

5) Always and always be physically active.....even a mild walk boosts circulation to the brain.
arq
1 / 5 (2) May 18, 2013
and ofcourse.....go easy on the artery clogging foods. Heart disease and even some of its medications, diabetes, hypertension are bad for the brain.
HTK
1 / 5 (6) May 18, 2013
This must be true because japs and koreans and jews have the highest iq in the world.

and doesnt proove anything.
LarryD
1.5 / 5 (8) May 18, 2013
The best way to improve intelligence:

1) Get enough sleep. Stay away from sleep disruptors before hitting the sack.

2) Eat a balanced diet. Our diets are deficient in some vitaminerals like vit C,A,E,B12, magnesium, zinc etc

3) When your mind is stressed...think something pleasant. Stress plays havoc with the mind

4) If you are not getting sun at all, get it. The suns rays help in vasodilation and vit D

5) Always and always be physically active.....even a mild walk boosts circulation to the brain.

Oh arg, I do agree with you and I'd bet my score on your list would high...I wish it were as simple as that. It isn't...for a start one could do all those things and have time for nothing else...might make one 'wise'...just a bit of a joke on my part.
If you have ever done 'shift' work you'll know that some things on your list are not impossible but they are damned difficult to attain. How many people have to work these 'impossible rota systems' so that an organisation...cont
alfie_null
1 / 5 (3) May 18, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is unlikely post graduates (univ) could answer many of the questions these days. There is little doubt that a person of average intelligence today is a complete dunce compared to the same person from the 19th century. OBAMA! being the POTUS is the perfect example of the stupidity of the average person.

Ironic, eh? Unashamedly shallow understanding of how and why a particular candidate gets elected. Then calling an entire group of people he disagrees with names. Rhetoric was understood well and skillfully employed back then. A lost art (to some) today.
LarryD
1.6 / 5 (7) May 18, 2013
(cont...) can keep its ISO, profit etc. QA/QC systems are designed to keep those at the top on top and those in the middle scrambling. I spent years as part of several teams involved in this inhuman system and believe me it was the potent sleeper disruptor for many people. Eat a balanced diet...be lucky if your body can cope with digesting food. Stress...again such systems are designed to put one under stress (get results by the 'whip' or threats) and 38-40 hours a week of that does damage before a person can go home and think of something pleasant. Sun, you say...Sun? only when your on holiday! Physically active depends on the job but you can't leave your post without risking 'the sack'.
Like or not, arg, that's the real life picture for many people working and I'm not joking this time. We all want light, heat, food on the market shelves etc but someone had to be with those 'automatic' machines to put these things. cont...
LarryD
1.7 / 5 (6) May 18, 2013
cont...That is the real life out there and a lot of them believe it is the (industrial) scientist's fault. This is what we have made our society today and I think comparing today's systems with those of yesteryear is of little use to anyone. They are simply toofar apart and too different.
ShotmanMaslo
1 / 5 (8) May 18, 2013
Regarding Flynn effect (increase in IQ over time), this is not necessarily a contradiction. The article seems to talk about intelligence unimpacted by education and environment. A potential for intelligence. Todays education system emphasises testing and skills needed on an IQ test, so todays people score higher than their ancestors. Yet it does not emphasise reaction times, and thats where the decline may be apparent.
xeb
1 / 5 (6) May 18, 2013
@: Valeria T: "deterministic ways for reality understanding are exhausted and the pluralistic holistic approach may appear more"; "current epoch of human society evolution favors more holistic and intuitive"

Financial events, measures, protocoles are not fuzzy: second look at the price wont change it. This makes a level of reality. Many of them exist, and all put deterministic restrictions on what may happen: e.g. foods nutritional value in biological systems, precise quantities in chemical reactions etc. Maybe the lowest lvl is more complex but general rules exist: e.g. on every level there are networks, and they brake or rebuild determined by relation of their ability to intake/transmit energy/matter/information towards environment with specific distribution of those resources/disturbers.
One day, we will calculate why on Earth a hand with fingers makes civilization more probable than trunk or fin (elephants,dolphins).
Our evolution is caused by environment: self-eco-organisation
:)
arq
2.3 / 5 (3) May 18, 2013
@larry,

You can climb the stairs at the office instead of taking the lift, if its not too high.

You can park your car farther from the entrance...you can get a walk and sun.

You can buy fruit juices instead of coffee.

You can switch off the tv a half hour early at night.
ValeriaT
1 / 5 (9) May 18, 2013
@Arg: instead of it we should start to utilize the findings of recent era in similar way, like the Victorian people did - I means just the findings of Victorian era like the magnetic motors and cold fusion. I don't like the wasting of resources - but I think the drinking of juices instead of coffee would improve the economical situation of world too much. This is just an naive American way of "savings": to buy expensive hybrid cars just because they don't release the carbon dioxide, but which are generating a much more waste in another ways.

We as a civilization have brilliant perspective, but we should take it rationally and seriously. Currently too many people refuse the perspective of better life just for not to lose the existing jobs - from fossil fuel magnates to researchers of solar plants. We don't need to pollute the air and sea with carbon dioxide, we do need to cover the Earth with silly solar and wind plants, the energetic effectiveness of which is doubtful, after all.
xeb
1 / 5 (6) May 18, 2013
I suggest, that the way out is: allotopy (some relative of utopy and allopatric speciation).
To allow some intentional communities, to move into autonomous ecosystems, agreeing on specific (long-term) directives of ecosystems managament. They would have to be DIY as to everything, keep the footprints and demography, no internet or any transactions with external. But: they will be free to design their culture (e.g. art monasteries, poliamoric tantrics, or abstract-geometry worshipers etc :) [in fact that is related to "global meaning systems" which can be engineered to a degree]). Plus all the mediate forms: not fully autonomous but self-sustaining seacities, eco-resorts, habitats. Plus a right to suicide for worldview reasons.
There are stil few traditional societies left alone. And those selling first ticket to Mars collonization say: "we wont tell you what to do".
So, leave it. Dont improve under Global, make allopatric escapes. Allow different cultures, psychologies etc.
arq
2.3 / 5 (3) May 18, 2013
@valeria, I honestly dint understand your comment.
draa
5 / 5 (2) May 18, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is unlikely post graduates (univ) could answer many of the questions these days. There is little doubt that a person of average intelligence today is a complete dunce compared to the same person from the 19th century. OBAMA! being the POTUS is the perfect example of the stupidity of the average person.


And yet you likely voted for George W Bush. He's the poster child for absolute ignorance but the people that voted for him have the gall to talk about Obama being stupid. That's too damn funny.
LarryD
1 / 5 (6) May 18, 2013
@larry,

You can climb the stairs at the office instead of taking the lift, if its not too high.

You can park your car farther from the entrance...you can get a walk and sun.

You can buy fruit juices instead of coffee.

You can switch off the tv a half hour early at night.

I can climb the 100+ stairs to the (Thai) temple;
I walk to my Tae Kwon do gym and back twice each day;
I don't drink coffee but Indian tea and eat fresh fruit, pineapple, water melon, apples, oranges and yum yum, grapes. Better than the drinking fruit juices (can't always trust them).
All these and more are easy to get in Thailand.
I am teetotal and don't smoke, bed early, rise early.
arg, so there's hope for me yet eh?
YawningDog
4 / 5 (4) May 19, 2013
Most of the people posting here sound like extras from the movie "Idiocracy". That movie nailed it so hard the studio refused to release it. However, it managed to make it to DVD and has since become a cult classic.

Articles on quantum or relativity really brings the loonies out in force.
kochevnik
1.4 / 5 (9) May 19, 2013
White matter volume predicts reaction time instability. It is not a marker for intelligence but simply connectivity. A deficiency of grey matter results from childhood neglect and austerity. Such brains may have low RT times yet they are permanently damaged. Route memorization is NOT knowledge or understanding. A student may memorize Russian words but have no language comprehension because the dry words are not bound in behavior
LarryD
1 / 5 (5) May 19, 2013
I am fortunate enough to have been young at a time when the PC was a dream and land line phones were only in homes where the was a good income. So I don't need to think about the Victorian era because I know that trying to make a comparison between my youth and those of today is really not reasonable. There are +'s and -'s on both sides. 55 years ago-no computer games and I took more notice of my evironment, talked to people etc. But then youngsters did get bored quicker and the result was that there were more 'local gangs' around. Today children have a much greater variety and, in my opinion, are less bored with life. 'Gangs' today are different and the motivation for them is closer to the money problem, that is more high tech.
Every generation thinks that 'it's the one' but in the end it's 'swings and roundabouts', problems (and reaction times) are probably similar to yesteryear but they are just 'dressed' differently.
Czcibor
1.3 / 5 (9) May 19, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is.


Neat! Where do I find these questions? How would I obtain them (I assume they are math-questions)?

I couldn't find the original article I read, but this Harvard entrance exam is quite interesting.

Oops;
http://graphics8....exam.pdf


Thanks, interesting test.

Without any problems I'd solve math and algebra well. I'd partially also deal with geometry.

I would be annoyed about overemphasize on ancient Greece, but I'd say something reasonable about Pericles or on comparison between Athens and Sparta.

Nothing extraordinary hard, except maybe languages - but simply different languages. If we translate it in to "know two foreign languages" then I'd fit.

So I would not call it as specially hard, rather changes of ideas which data/skills makes you knowledgeable. The more task is culture neutral, the easier it is for me.
arq
1 / 5 (2) May 19, 2013
@larry,
Keep doin those and there is hope for you.
arq
1 / 5 (2) May 19, 2013
@kocehvnik,

Interesting thing about white matter you said there. Reaction times, speed of thought are heavily influenced by white matter.

Also cognitive decline with old age is also lesser in people with greater white matter.

roldor
not rated yet May 19, 2013
The reaction time increases with age. Decreases with good sleep, less stress.
So one could also say: The victorian people did sleep better, were younger and had less stress.
ValeriaT
1 / 5 (9) May 19, 2013
were younger
They really were younger in average because of generally lower life expectancy during Victorian era. But IMO they did think faster, because they haven't handle so much of informations in their heads.
AGorilla
1 / 5 (4) May 19, 2013
So today's people are less intelligent and much more knowledgeable. Sounds like a dangerous trend to me. By extrapolation you eventually get ultimate power in the hands of the most stupid.


The dawn of the Idiocracy. Terrible movie but excellent concept by the way.
AGorilla
1 / 5 (4) May 19, 2013
I read test questions for a freshman level high school test from around 1880's, it is unlikely post graduates (univ) could answer many of the questions these days. There is little doubt that a person of average intelligence today is a complete dunce compared to the same person from the 19th century. OBAMA! being the POTUS is the perfect example of the stupidity of the average person.[/q

Please elaborate as to how President Obama being twice elected to lead the country is an example of the dumbing down of our society?
AGorilla
1.7 / 5 (6) May 19, 2013
ghost of otto - "Of the Germans who fought in stalingrad, 5% of enlisted men, 50% of junior officers, and 95% of senior officers survived."

could this not have been because the enlisted fight at the front, the officers lead (normally from the rear) and the senior officers are usually way back in staging area's planning and leading? it appears to me that distance from the fighting makes all the difference in survival.
I am not sure how that applies to religion either. everywhere I have been in Europe, there was religion... usually one of the Christian religions. please explain.


Because you do not seem to know anything of one of the greatest battles of human history I'll fill you in.
AGorilla
1 / 5 (4) May 19, 2013
In the Battle of Stalingrad virtually the entire ~ million man Axis army was killed or captured. 850,000 killed (on the Axis side alone) during the battle, of the captured which was virtually the entire 6th Army as there was no escape but for some of the wounded earlier in the conflict, and presumably some others, by air long before the final surrender. Only 6,000 men survived to return home ten years after the end of the war in 1945. The top German Commander General Paulus was one of the captured along with what remained of his staff. Interestingly he was promoted to Field Marshal at the end by Hitler in the hopes he would commit suicide as no German Field Marshal had up to that point been captured alive.
So anyhoo ghost of otto's analysis does provide some interesting insight as the population of the study group consistent and controlled from beginning to end.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (10) May 19, 2013
could this not have been because the enlisted fight at the front, the officers lead (normally from the rear) and the senior officers are usually way back in staging area's planning and leading?
No. There was no 'rear' at stalingrad. All who werent killed were captured and subsequently died. The figures are of those who survived the war, including the coward von paulus who lived comfortably in russia for the rest of his life.

Toward the end of the war the life expectancy of front line junior officers on the eastern front was around 2 weeks.

Those who were lucky enough to survive the war had a pretty good life waiting for them. There were many more women left than men, and those men were encouraged to repopulate. Another western war had been Engineered to replenish winners at the expense of losers, and religion was the prime Instrument is selecting who would live and who would die.
mvg
1.8 / 5 (5) May 19, 2013
"I would be annoyed about overemphasize on ancient Greece, but I'd say something reasonable about Pericles or on comparison between Athens and Sparta."

Interesting comment Czcibor--

But I might add that "modern" society might well have benefited if they had paid more attention to the lesson to be learned from the Peloponnesian war (That is--What happens to a democracy that is also imperialistic). A great deal of grief in Southeast Asia could have been avoided.
Czcibor
1.5 / 5 (8) May 19, 2013
"I would be annoyed about overemphasize on ancient Greece, but I'd say something reasonable about Pericles or on comparison between Athens and Sparta."

Interesting comment Czcibor--

But I might add that "modern" society might well have benefited if they had paid more attention to the lesson to be learned from the Peloponnesian war (That is--What happens to a democracy that is also imperialistic). A great deal of grief in Southeast Asia could have been avoided.

I think that Tukidydes view was that war actually could have been won. Not mentioning that conclusion (a bit overreaching) of his contemporaries was that this war "proved" that oligarchic Sparta had more effective system than democratic (sort of...) Athens.

However, if one want to make some comparison between Sicilian expedition of Athens and let's say US intervention in Vietnam or recent in Iraq, I'd treat as reasonable.
ubavontuba
1 / 5 (9) May 19, 2013
They base their controversial assertion on reaction times to visual stimuli given as tests to people from the late 1800s to modern times—the faster the reaction time, they say, the smarter the person.
First, I'd like to learn a lot more about the demographics of the population samples tested. Second, I'd like to learn a lot more about the test itself (specifically stimuli used). And third, I'd argue reaction times are not necessarily a reflection on intelligence, as even flies react quickly to visual stimuli.

And, I'd argue (anecdotally), problems that were insurmountable to people from the Victorian age are easily solved today. For instance, of 1,502 people who died in the Titanic disaster, apparently, not one thought to create makeshift life rafts from the abundant floatation materials available on the ship.

And lastly, as has been noted, "average intelligence," as a measure, has been trending upward.

Czcibor
1 / 5 (7) May 19, 2013
mvg:
I mean my point is not overemphasize on "history" but on "history of ancient Greece and Rome". I mean in such exam there could have been a question on eg. Augsburg Peace or Vienna Congress.
By occasion: some time ago I discovered a paradox - I considered myself a person with at least basic knowledge on history, but on the other hand all my knowledge was concerning western civilization. Yes, I so far I put some very limited effort to learn at least basic knowledge about China and India. I consider it as bit subjective which history is the one that one is expected know.
TheGhostofOtto1923
1.4 / 5 (9) May 19, 2013
And, I'd argue (anecdotally), problems that were insurmountable to people from the Victorian age are easily solved today. For instance, of 1,502 people who died in the Titanic disaster, apparently, not one thought to create makeshift life rafts from the abundant floatation materials available on the ship
But they still build buildings that collapse, and sell food full of salmonella. And religionists are still killing each other around the world with bombs, guns, and more bombs. Anecdotally.

Whats your point?
mvg
1 / 5 (4) May 19, 2013
mvg:
I mean my point is not overemphasize on "history" but on "history of ancient Greece and Rome". I mean in such exam there could have been a question on eg. Augsburg Peace or Vienna Congress.
By occasion: some time ago I discovered a paradox - I considered myself a person with at least basic knowledge on history, but on the other hand all my knowledge was concerning western civilization. Yes, I so far I put some very limited effort to learn at least basic knowledge about China and India. I consider it as bit subjective which history is the one that one is expected know.


Very true Czcibor,
The study of history in the West is highly slanted toward 'self-study' and modern self-study at that.

Might I suggest looking into Arnold Toynbee's "A study of History"(originally in 10 volumes, but nicely summarized in 2 by Somervell) (Toynbee was, by the way, a late Victorian man of letters). He does a very thorough comparison of 21 (mostly non-western) civilizations.
snowcomplex
1 / 5 (3) May 20, 2013
It would be great if this article did not have an "ad by google" covering most of the second paragraph and part of the third.
rsklyar
1 / 5 (9) May 20, 2013
But lack of intelligence of modern-day European researchers is excessively compensated by their paramount swindling ability at https://connect.i...sr/blogs
Cannabaceae Humulus lupulus
1 / 5 (8) May 20, 2013
Wow, these blogs were so much more inspiring during the Victorian era.
I do agree that we are dumber from one perspective, that it now takes us 8-12 hours a day, 6 days a week to supply food for our family. What kind of backward organism modifies its environment to make it harder and longer to acquire food, while chopping down its environment in the process.
Neinsense99
1 / 5 (8) May 20, 2013
It's Victoria Day in Canada. Are we intelligent enough to keep the spring holiday and get rid of the anachronism that sees a major nation celebrating the birthday of a sovereign who never set foot in the country and represents a colonial past?
Neinsense99
1 / 5 (8) May 20, 2013
I'd say IQ is on the downswing. Just read some of the posts on this topic. It's laughable what people write. Forget Seinfeld - it's in reruns. The real comedy is on PhysOrg.


Stones, glass houses. You know the saying.
gurloc
not rated yet May 20, 2013
Their methodology is highly questionable but I'd be shocked if their conclusion isn't correct.

Intelligence is only selected for if it increases the number of your offspring who live long enough to reproduce. And that certainly is no longer the case in any developed country. Intelligence is at best neutral and at worst a detriment to reproductive success which is the only thing which matters to evolution.

Also intelligence is not free, its generally believed that environment is as important as genetic predisposition. And no past generation could survive with the level of mental laziness that humans can today (again in developed countries). Nothing focuses your wits quite like trying to stay alive.

It makes perfect sense for mean intelligence to increase over time, reach a peak then start to decrease as modern technology makes intelligence less important.
Czcibor
1.1 / 5 (8) May 21, 2013
Might I suggest looking into Arnold Toynbee's "A study of History"(originally in 10 volumes, but nicely summarized in 2 by Somervell) (Toynbee was, by the way, a late Victorian man of letters). He does a very thorough comparison of 21 (mostly non-western) civilizations.


Well I googled it and become a bit nervous about the fact that those books are over half century old. How well did they survived such test of time?

(after I read a later study that seriously undermined one of arguments from Jared Diamond's Collapse, I presumably are a bit too cautiousness)
mvg
1 / 5 (4) May 21, 2013
Might I suggest looking into Arnold Toynbee's "A study of History"(originally in 10 volumes, but nicely summarized in 2 by Somervell) (Toynbee was, by the way, a late Victorian man of letters). He does a very thorough comparison of 21 (mostly non-western) civilizations.


Well I googled it and become a bit nervous about the fact that those books are over half century old. How well did they survived such test of time?

(after I read a later study that seriously undermined one of arguments from Jared Diamond's Collapse, I presumably are a bit too cautiousness)


Actually I think they have weathered the test of time quite well. It is somewhat different from other histories, in that it consists of comparisons between the situations which stimulated the growth, creativity,and decline of 21 civilizations--documenting the flowering, growth into uncreative "universal states", and final demise of each one.

ryggesogn2
1.7 / 5 (12) May 21, 2013
I wouldn't be surprised. They had time to think.
Today, most only react.
Czcibor
1 / 5 (7) May 21, 2013
Actually I think they have weathered the test of time quite well. It is somewhat different from other histories, in that it consists of comparisons between the situations which stimulated the growth, creativity,and decline of 21 civilizations--documenting the flowering, growth into uncreative "universal states", and final demise of each one.


Thanks, I'd put it on my "to read" list.
Sandor Z
1.4 / 5 (8) May 22, 2013
The much salt (sodium) in foods. This is the sad reality.
Higher energy requirements (energy expenditure) for Na-K pump, and kidney. All the rest of our vital processes (functional processes of cells) receive less energy. Because the metabolic rate - speed and capacity of enzyme reactions, oxygen supply, etc. - is limited. And excess sodium intake do not increase the oxidative glycolysis. But, a critical surplus switches the anaerobic pathway on, in our every cells. All of our vital processes work worse including our heart, brain, immune system, etc., and we produce lactic acid in our cells, and our cells are dying. We produce lactic acid even in our brain. And less energy is left onto the thinking. This makes fool of the whole humanity. And logical consequences: In the production of the gamete more the mistake in the copying of DNA, and the error correcting mechanism work worse. The human genome is degenerating. More details:
padre.uw.hu/ekvis/entropyobesity.htm (Without 3w)
dbren
5 / 5 (1) May 22, 2013
Without reading the article, the title suggest that that is correct. "Researchers suggest Victorian-era people more intelligent modern-day counterparts". Me thinks there is a grammatical error which they would not have made...


Methinks they weren't the only ones making a grammatical error. :-)
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (8) May 24, 2013
Maiken Nedergaard, Steven A. Goldman, Smita Desai, and William A. Pulsinelli
Acid-induced death in neurons and glia. The Journal of Neuroscience, August 1991, 11(8): 2489-2497. From the article: "Lactic acidosis has been proposed to be one factor promoting cell death following cerebral ischemia. We have previously demonstrated that cultured neurons and glia are killed by relatively brief (10 min) exposure to acidic solutions of pH less than 5 ... Cerebral hypoxia-ischemia induces lactic acid formation trough the accentuation of anaerobic glycolysis. ...Local accumulation of lactic acid to cytotoxic levels may play a causal role in the genesis of brain infarction following cerebral ischemia .... Several authors have addressed directly the issue of acid-induced cell death." Degenerates the salted humanity and will be idiotic. How does the knowledge, which was found already once, disappear?
Where have all the IQ's gone? (Marlene Dietrich: Where have all the flowers gone?)
Neinsense99
1 / 5 (8) May 26, 2013
I wouldn't be surprised. They had time to think.
Today, most only react.

Unaware of the irony.
powerup1
1 / 5 (4) May 29, 2013
There may be a political and racist motive behind this study. The birthrate of European people are on the decline and non-European people birthrates are on the increase. So when the say that dumb people are having more children it fits in to the belief that so-called mongrel races are taking over and devolving humanity. Hitler would have loved this kind of bad science.
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (9) May 31, 2013
Forgotten and ignored knowledges - 1965:

Saulo Klahr and Neal S. Bricker: Energetics of Anaerobic Sodium Transport by the Fresh Water Turtle Bladder. The Journal of General Physiology 1965 March 1; 48(4): 571–580.
From the article:
"The rate of anaerobic glycolysis, as determined by lactate formation, correlates well with the rate as determined by glycogen utilization. Using lactate formation as the index of anaerobic glycolysis, a linear relationship was observed between glycolysis and net anaerobic sodium transport."
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (10) May 31, 2013
Forgotten and ignored knowledges - 1985:
Henningsen N.C.: The sodium pump and energy regulation: some new aspects for essential hypertension, diabetes II and severe overweight.
Klinische Wochenschrift 63 Suppl 3:4-8. 1985.
From the abstract: "There is a growing evidence for that in modern societies the function of the cellular sodium-potassium pump (membrane-bound Na+ K+ ATPase) in several tissues in man cannot respond adequately to demands. This is not seen in any other free-living vertebrates on this earth. The clearly unphysiological very high intake of sodium-chloride (salt) and also alcohol is definitely playing an important role in the development of the common degenerating metabolic aberrations, e.g. essential hypertension, diabetes II and severe over-weight, in man..." Oppss! Floor gas Na-K pump (anaerobic turbo pump) is not enough! Our cells are dying!
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (10) May 31, 2013
Forgotten and ignored knowledges - 1991:
Maiken Nedergaard, Steven A. Goldman, Smita Desai, and William A. Pulsinelli
Acid-induced death in neurons and glia
The Journal of Neuroscience, August 1991, 11(8): 2489-2497
From the article: "Lactic acidosis has been proposed to be one factor promoting cell death following cerebral ischemia. ... Cerebral hypoxia-ischemia induces lactic acid formation trough the accentuation of anaerobic glycolysis. ... Several authors have addressed directly the issue of acid-induced cell death."
The Sodium-Induced Cellular Anaerobic Glycolysis (SICAG) induces lactic acid formation in every of our cells, even in our brain. (1 molecule glucose aerobic -> 36 - 38 ATP,
1 molecule glucose anaerobic -> only 2 ATP)
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (10) May 31, 2013
Forgotten and ignored knowledges - 1998:
Sandor Z.: Equivalency law in the metal requirement of the living organisms.
Acta Alimentaria 27 (4): 389-395. 1998.
This equivalency law is a simple chemical rule: The alkaline metal requirement (potassium + sodium) is chemically equivalent with that of polyvalent metals (calcium + magnesium + zinc + iron etc.). Because, is a strict chemical stoichiometrical rule of the cation exchange processes is that they proceed with the exchange of an equivalent amount of positively charged counter-ions. The counter-ions of the polyvalent metals in our body = sodium + potassium.
Less counter-ion = trouble
Much counter-ion = trouble
Very much counter-ion = catastrophe
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (9) May 31, 2013
F and I knowledges 2001:
Thermogenesis induced by osmotic stimulation of the intestines in the rat
Toshimasa Osaka, Akiko Kobayashi, and Shuji Inoue:
J Physiol. 2001 April 1; 532(Pt 1): 261–269.
From the article: "Intestinal infusion of glucose solutions increased the metabolic rate, respiratory exchange ratio (RER) and Tc dose dependently .. suggesting the oxidation of carbohydrate during the thermogenic response to the glucose infusion. .. The metabolic rate rose during the 10 min infusion period of 3.6 % NaCl, stayed at a plateau level of ≈205 J kg−0.75 min−1 between 35 and 120 min and then slowly declined but was still significantly higher than the baseline level at 3 h. .. The RER did not change after infusion of any of the NaCl solutions." Ooppss! Sodium induced anaerobic glycolysis! But nothing about Na-K pump, anaerobic glycolysis and lactic acid. The salt-induced energy production consumed more glucose than the total resting metabolism of the rats, on the oxidative pathway.
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2013
F & ignored knowledges - 2005:
Christopher B Scott: Review
Contribution of anaerobic energy expenditure to whole body thermogenesis. Nutrition & Metabolism 2005, 2:14
"Entropy represents energy that is not available to perform work so that simply put, energy transfer is inefficient. . Brisk activity of the sodium pump necessitates a rapid rate of ATP re-synthesis. If this is true then it is important to recognize that in some cells* lactate with presumed heat production is better correlated with sodium and potassium pumping than is oxygen uptake . The relative contributions of each pathway to whole-body thermogenesis are not known."
This already something, but not too much. *"... in some cells ..." ??
In every cells, this is true!
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2013
F & ignored knowledges - 2005:
Meneton P, Jeunemaitre X, de Wardener HE, MacGregor GA.
Links between dietary salt intake, renal salt handling, blood pressure, and cardiovascular diseases.
Physiol Rev. 2005 Apr; 85(2):679-715.
From the abstract: "From an evolutionary viewpoint, the human species is adapted to ingest and excrete < 1 g of salt per day,.."
This is true and very wise statement!
But nothing about (floor gas) anaerobic sodium-potassium pump and lactic acid.
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2013
F & ignored knowledges - 2008:
Shaun F. Morrison, Kazuhiro Nakamura and Christopher J. Madden
Central control of thermogenesis in mammals
July 1, 2008 Experimental Physiology, 93, 773-797.

In the article - nothing about (floor gas, anaerobic) sodium-potassium pump, anaerobic
glycolysis and lactic acid! How does the knowledge, which was found already once, disappear?
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2013
F & ignored knowledges - 2009:
He FJ, MacGregor GA
A comprehensive review on salt and health and current experience of worldwide salt reduction programmes.
J Hum Hypertens. 2009 Jun;23(6):363-84.

In the article: 155 references and no sodium induced anaerobic glycolysis, no lactic acid and no (floor gas, anaerobic) sodium-potassium pump!
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2013
F & ignored knowledges - 2009:
Brown IJ, Tzoulaki I, Candeias V, Elliott P.
Salt intakes around the world: implications for public health.
Int J Epidemiol. 2009 Jun;38(3):791-813.
From the article: "Sodium intakes around the world are well in excess of physiological need (i.e. 10-20 mmol/day)."

Oh, finally, this is the best recommendation! 10-20 mmol/day = 230-460 mg sodium/day.

But: 156 references and nothing about the (floor gas) sodium-potassium pump and anaerobic glycolysis and lactic acid and nothing about the metal content (sodium and others) of human milk, which is an evolutionary perfect food, from every viewpoint!
Copy/Paste and extrapolation!
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2013
F & ignored knowledges - 2010:
Ram K. Mathur:
Role of diabetes, hypertension, and cigarette smoking on atherosclerosis
J Cardiovasc Dis Res. 2010 Apr-Jun; 1(2): 64–68.

From the article: "To determine the mechanism of thermogenesis, Osaka et al. [7-9] infused hypertonic solution of glucose, NaCl, ... The mechanism of thermogenesis is not clear."

9 years and 5 x 9 years, and not clear? Floor gas Na/K pump and kidney use more energy (ATP) caused by NaCl. Must "burn" ANAEROBIC from the glycogen reserve for the excess ADP --> ATP reactions! And see Henningsen 1985, our cells are dying.
Was the mechanism not clear really? Or the scientific elite (the global censorship) did not allow it to enlighten?
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2013
An now, in 2013:
Oregon State University, Linus Pauling Institute
//lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/sodium/

".. sodium, potassium-ATPase pumps. These pumps use ATP (energy) to pump sodium out of the cell in exchange for potassium (diagram). Their activity has been estimated to account for 20%-40% of the resting energy expenditure in a typical adult. The large proportion of energy dedicated to maintaining sodium/potassium concentration gradients emphasizes the importance of this function in sustaining life."

And no sodium-induced anaerobic glycolysis and no lactic acid. Very bad education!
Global corruption and global censorship?
Sandor Z
1 / 5 (6) Jun 03, 2013
The copy&pasting of OT nonsense just supports the theory of ....


Dear Natello,
what is the "OT"?
The sodium swallowed unnecessarily destroys the human genom and our brain too. This is the relation of the subject. The optimal Na/K ratio and the ratio between sum of alkaline metals and sum of polyvalent metals, and the ratio between alkaline metals and energy content etc. is in the human milk. From every viewpoint, the human milk is an evolutionary perfect food - including minimal energy expenditure of the Na-K pump in babies. Copy/Paste and extrapolation for setting adult requirements (and some modification for some elements).
See more: //padre.uw.hu/ekvis/entropyobesity.htm

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